Minutes of the meeting held on Friday 11th December 2015 in Sunderland Hosted by Sunderland City Council Welfare Rights Service

Present: Kelly Smith Child Poverty Action Group Paul Treloar Child Poverty Action Group Mike Spencer Child Poverty Action Group Fiona Seymour Citizens Advice Craig Samuel City of Edinburgh Council Claire Cunningham Colchester Borough Homes Alan Markey Independent Advice Sharon Barlow Derbyshire Council Kamal Gujral DIAL (Leeds) Aleksandra Turner Durham County Council Julie Henry Durham County Council Gillian Osgeby Durham County Council Sandra Wyper Four Housing Sarah Duffy GIPSIL Rob McHugh GIPSIL David Webster Glasgow University Carlo Sicheri Greenfields Housing Association Janet Bowman HHAS Lindsay Lusher ISOS Jim McKenny Council Scott Kelly Liz Watling Limbless Association Owen Stevens London Borough of Greenwich Corin Hammersley London Borough of Greenwich Stephanie Howard Maggie’s Newcastle Terry Patterson City Council Glenda Dodd Manchester Metropolitan University Student Union Sarah Hannan Middlesbrough Council Malcolm Bateman Middlesbrough Council Lorraine Brown Middlesbrough Council Karen George Neath Port Talbot Council Clive Davis Andrea Peacock North Star Housing Maggie Bailey Northern TUC Asbestos Group Keith Thompson Northumberland County Council 1 Helen McGoldrick Northumbrian Citizens Advice Joanna Walton Northumbrian Citizens Advice Campbell McCrae Northumbrian Citizens Advice Sarah Lee Northumbrian Citizens Advice Paul Bradley Perennial Gary Gorman Redcar and Cleveland Borough Council Nichola Wilson-Barrett Redcar and Cleveland Borough Council Karen Coles Redcar and Cleveland Borough Council Rebecca McCabe Redcar and Cleveland Borough Council Jackie Hankins Retired member Caroline Egerton Richmond CAB Fiona Greenall Shiney Advice and Resource Project Julie Lynn Shiney Advice and Resource Project Eileen Benick Shiney Advice and Resource Project Christopher Wake Shiney Advice and Resource Project Dave Lowrie Stockton Borough Council Varinder Jagra Stockton Borough Council Lyndsey Wood Stockton Borough Council Jane O’Brien Stockton Borough Council Rosie Bell Stockton Borough Council Billy Park Stockton Council Joan Reed Sunderland City Council Andy Simblett Sunderland City Council Alison Aisbilt Sunderland City Council Janet Butler Sunderland City Council Adele Farquhar Sunderland City Council Hazel Young Sunderland City Council Tracey Czcykowski Sunderland City Council Katy Bird Sunderland City Council Sarah McGoren Sunderland City Council Maria Parkinson Sunderland City Council Stephen Hopper Sunderland City Council Tony Whittle SWRS Sue Holman Thirteen Group John Botham Thirteen Group Maureen Doyle Whitechapel Centre Mark Perlic City Council Ranjit Klare Wolverhampton City Council

Apologies: Barbara Knight (Leorn Welfare Rights); Juan Ramirez (Rushcliffe Advice Network); Myrian Lazo (Citizens Advice and Rights Fife); Daphne Hall (LASA); Damian Keogh and colleagues (Wrexham Council); Ruth Tindley (Citizens Advice Services Corby and Kettering); Clive Millman (Jesus Fellowship Church)

Welcome: Cllr Graeme Miller, Sunderland City Council's cabinet member for health, housing and adult services and portfolio holder for Welfare Reform.

2 Workshops:

A. ESA safeguarding guidance; a tool for practitioners – Corin Hammersley and Owen Stevens, Greenwich Council Welfare Rights Service.

See also: Safeguarding guidance, a tool for practitioner – CPAG’s Welfare Rights Bulletin 248 – Oct 2015

B. Kapow! to the GPOW – Mike Spencer, Child Poverty Action Group

C. Universal credit: the online claim form – Mark Perlic and Ranjit Klare, Wolverhampton City Council Welfare Rights

You can try out a UC online claim by using the following dummy details.

www.gov.uk/apply-universal-credit

NINo: AB 00 00 01 A

Address: 103 Old Street, Ashton, OL6 6BJ

Bank: Royal Bank of Scotland

Account Code: 12749163

Sort Code: 16-22-21

The Phil Hanns Memorial Lecture: Prof Ted Schrecker, Professor of Global Health Policy in the Centre for Public Policy & Health, Durham University

Neoliberal epidemics and the war against the vulnerable

Under the current government, public expenditure is being rolled back to levels last seen in the 1930s. The biggest cuts are targeted at the poorest regions. Inequality is widening and income, wealth and opportunity are being redistributed upwards. Amongst the poorest groups, ill health is increasing and life expectancy is decreasing; this is a ‘neoliberal epidemic’.

Ted has published a book with previous NAWRA speaker Clare Bambra; ‘How politics makes us sick‘ is out now. Use code PM15TWENTY for a 20% discount.

Q&A

Q. Has there been any cost-benefit or cost-consequence analysis of the economic policies of the current government? A. Sceptical about the value of that type of analysis. Firstly, cost-benefit analysis is an attempt to simulate a perfectly functioning market, and that is part of the problem. Secondly, if you tried to cost the health consequences of something like the bedroom tax, you would have to make very broad assumptions about the impact. It will take five to ten years before the impact on morbidity rates and life expectancies starts to become clear.

3 Q. What can be done to persuade the general public that the pursuit of neoliberal political ideology is creating poverty and ill health? A. Political communication is important. John Middleton, the incoming president of the Faculty of Public Health, is a good political commentator. He has said “it's not who your doctor is, it's who you vote for that most affects your health.”

Guest speaker: Dr David Webster, Honorary Senior Research Fellow (Urban Studies), Glasgow University

Benefit Sanctions: Position and prospects

Since peaking in 2014, the number and rate of benefit sanctions has started to reduce. However, it is still much higher than it was before the Coalition government came to power. It was government policy to drive sanctions up but there have been two critical inquires and lots of negative publicity lately which has played a part in a decision to ease the sanctions regime a little.

The majority of JSA and about half of ESA sanctions between April and June 2015 were repeats since Oct-Dec 2012. This suggests that claimants are not ‘learning their lessons’ but finding it impossible to comply with benefit requirements.

In March 2015, the Work and Pensions Committee published a list of recommendations. The government has refused to implement many of them and still does not acknowledge that there are fundamental problems with the system. In November’s autumn statement, it was announced that in- work sanctions are to be introduced for 1.3m people despite a lack of evidence.

One improvement is the decision to introduce automated sanction notifications (from 23 Nov). Also, a 14 day pause before sanction implementation is to be trialled in Scotland by March 2016.

However, the fundamental problems remain. The philosophy is punishment rather than support, the penalties are disproportionate and create destitution and the system is based on ideology instead of evidence.

Action: To be added to David’s mailing list for his statistical analysis updates please email [email protected]

Q&A Q. These statistics examine the proportion of sanctioned claimants, but do you also look at the duration of each sanction? A. There is a report by the Methodists where they did a calculation of the number of sanctioned weeks. However, it involved some assumptions as the DWP do not record the date of the ‘failure’. David is pursuing this with the DWP.

Q. Is the popularity of the sanctions system with government and the general public a result of a class- based hatred? A. There is a centuries-old tradition of seeing the poor not as full citizens. Paupers didn’t get the vote until the 20th century. There is something about British society which seems to classify the poor as lesser beings.

Q. Did this system come from America?

4 A. American labour market economists have a lot to answer for in putting forward the idea that unemployment is a lifestyle choice and that benefits encourage worklessness. There was also some influence from the Scandinavian left, who try to help unemployed people overcome their disadvantage. In the UK, we’ve taken part of this approach but without the other important aspect of the model which is the support.

Q. Are there any statistics on the success rate of MR and appeal when the claimant is represented? A. Not on MR, but there has been some research on tribunals. They are almost always successful when there is a rep. There is a 55% success rate otherwise.

Information exchange:

1. Any time reviews Derbyshire County Council welfare rights is having trouble getting an any time review for their clients. Is anyone else experiencing this problem?

2. Joint work on sanctions The local Jobcentre Plus in Coventry is not engaging in efforts to do some joint work with the voluntary sector on sanctions. Does anyone work in an area where this has been sucessful?

Newcastle, Northumberland, Middlesbrough and all have some good experience of this. Action: contact Alan Markey ([email protected]) to share experience in your area.

3. NAWRA membership survey Thanks to everyone who completed the NAWRA membership survey. The results will be used to inform a three - five year strategy to be developed by a subgroup of the NAWRA committee. This will be presented for discussion at the NAWRA meeting in March 2016.

4. NAWRA leaflets We have printed a leaflet with information about NAWRA. If you are in contact with other welfare rights organisations who are not already members then perhaps you could help spread the word by giving them a leaflet. Action: Email [email protected] with your address and the quantity of leaflets you require.

Minutes from previous meeting: Minutes of the meeting held in Edinburgh on 4 Sept 2015 agreed.

Future meetings: NAWRA will meet from 10am-4pm on the following dates. Further information will be circulated to members in due course.

 Fri 11 Mar 2016 – Belper (hosted by Derbyshire County Council Welfare Rights Service)  Fri 3 Jun 2016 – The Old Royal Naval College, Greenwich, London SE10 9NN (hosted by London Borough of Greenwich Welfare Rights Service)  Sep 2016 – Date to be confirmed (hosted by Glasgow City Council Welfare Rights Service)  Fri 2 Dec 2016 – Stoke on Trent (hosted by Staffordshire University)

5  Can your organisation offer to host a NAWRA meeting in 2017? We’re due to meet on the first Friday of March, June, September and December each year. Please contact [email protected] to find out more about hosting.

 NAWRA relies on its members to offer to facilitate workshops at meetings. If you have a good idea for a workshop that you would like to run at a future meeting, please contact [email protected] who will put you in touch with the host.

Any other business:

 NAWRA on the web Follow NAWRA on Twitter @NAWRA_UK, find us on Facebook and Linkedin and have a look at our website www.nawra.org.uk

 Contact details Do you receive regular emails from NAWRA? If not, it is likely that we do not have the correct contact details for you or your membership has lapsed. Please contact Kelly Smith, NAWRA Secretary at [email protected]

Thank you to Andy Simblett and colleagues at Sunderland City Council’s Welfare Rights Service, the guest speakers and the workshop facilitators

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