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Zoning Board of Appeals Meeting May 14, 2018 ______Barrington Hills, Illinois ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS BARRINGTON HILLS, ILLINOIS

MINUTES - APRIL 16, 2018 ) ) PUBLIC HEARING: VACANT LAND - IL ) RTE. 25 SOUTH OF IL RTE. 62 - ) SPECIAL USE ) ) PUBLIC MEETING: VACANT LAND - IL ) RTE. 25 SOUTH OF IL RTE. 62 - ) SPECIAL USE [VOTE] )

REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS at the hearing of the above-entitled cause before DAN

WOLFGRAM, Zoning Board of Appeals Chairman, at 112

Algonquin Road, MacArthur Room, Barrington Hills,

Illinois, on the 14th day of May, 2018, at the hour of

6:30 p.m.

ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS MEMBERS PRESENT:

MR. DAN WOLFGRAM, Chairman MR. JIM ROOT MR. PATRICK J. HENNELLY MR. DAVID STIEPER MR. JAN C. GOSS MS. DEBRA BUETTNER

ALSO PRESENT:

MS. ANNA PAUL, Acting Village Director MS. MARY DICKSON, Village Attorney

Reported by: Cynthia L. Peesel, CSR CSR License No. 084-002656 Page 2

1 I N D E X

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3 MINUTES - APRIL 16, 2018 4

4 PUBLIC HEARING - RELIGIOUS INSTITUTION 4

5 PUBLIC MEETING - RELIGIOUS INSTITUTION 50

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1 (Whereupon, the following proceedings

2 were held in open meeting.)

3 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: Welcome to the meeting

4 of the Village of Barrington Hills Zoning Board of

5 Appeals. My name is Dan Wolfgram, and I'm the

6 chairman of the Zoning Board of Appeals.

7 Will the clerk please call the roll.

8 COURT REPORTER: Member Root.

9 MEMBER ROOT: Here.

10 COURT REPORTER: Member Hennelly.

11 MEMBER HENNELLY: Here.

12 COURT REPORTER: Member Stieper.

13 MEMBER STIEPER: Here.

14 COURT REPORTER: Member Goss.

15 MEMBER GOSS: Here.

16 COURT REPORTER: Member Buettner.

17 MEMBER BUETTNER: Here.

18 COURT REPORTER: Chairman Wolfgram.

19 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: Here.

20 We have a quorum present.

21 PUBLIC COMMENTS

22 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: Is there any public

23 comment this evening for anything that is not on

24 tonight's agenda?

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1 (No response.)

2 MINUTES

3 APRIL 16, 2018

4 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: Seeing none, the first

5 item of business is the approval of the minutes of the

6 April 16th, 2018, meeting.

7 Is there a motion for the approval?

8 MEMBER STIEPER: So moved.

9 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: Second?

10 MEMBER HENNELLY: Second.

11 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: Any comments,

12 corrections, discussion? Nobody has any changes or

13 corrections?

14 MEMBER HENNELLY: No, I didn't see anything.

15 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: Hearing none, all those

16 in favor of approval of the minutes of the April 16th,

17 2018, meeting, please signify by saying aye.

18 (Chorus of ayes.)

19 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: Opposed?

20 (No response.)

21 PUBLIC HEARING

22 SPECIAL USE - RELIGIOUS INSTITUTION

23 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: Thank you. We will now

24 proceed to the public hearing scheduled for this

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1 evening.

2 I will now open the public hearing into the

3 application for the special use permit for religious

4 institution requested by the Bridge Church of

5 Algonquin. Owner's a vacant land on Illinois

6 Route 25, south of Illinois Route 62.

7 And all testimony will be given under oath.

8 And at the hearing there will be opportunity for the

9 public to offer testimony and to comment. Following

10 the public hearing in this case, the ZBA's

11 deliberations will be open to the public in the sense

12 that all are invited to listen and to watch. The

13 public, however, may not speak during our

14 deliberations.

15 The zoning ordinance requires a prevailing

16 vote by majority of the members of the ZBA to

17 recommend that the Village Board approve the

18 application. The Village Board will make the final

19 decision.

20 For purposes of testimony this evening, all

21 those wishing to provide testimony will be placed

22 under oath. Everyone who expects to provide

23 testimony, please stand to be placed under oath.

24 (All sworn.)

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1 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: Thank you. Just have to

2 wait a moment for the acting village administrator to

3 come back to provide background for the application.

4 And here she is.

5 MS. PAUL: I believe what we are looking for

6 is that it was published in the Daily Herald on

7 April 23rd, 2018.

8 MS. DICKSON: And the notices were mailed

9 out to those within 250 feet, and that's established

10 by the green card. If you want to present those for

11 the record, I think you have those.

12 MS. PAUL: Do you have the physical?

13 MR. PIERCEY: I don't have physical.

14 MS. PAUL: We have the copies -- we don't

15 have the copies.

16 MEMBER STIEPER: Did we get the green cards

17 back from everybody?

18 MS. DICKSON: We did. Do you have the

19 certificates that you can -- if you don't have them,

20 you should be providing them to the village

21 administrator when you have them.

22 MR. PIERCEY: We did make copies of them and

23 sent them to the village administrator.

24 MS. DICKSON: Okay. So proper notice has

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1 been made of this public hearing.

2 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: Okay. Is the applicant

3 ready to proceed? Please do so stating your name and

4 address for the record, please.

5 MR. GIANOPULOS: Hello. My name is Skip

6 Gianopulos, 16 Rebecca Drive, Barrington Hills.

7 Hello, everyone.

8 MR. BERGE: Todd Berge. I'm the senior

9 pastor, 653 Kingsbury Court, Algonquin, Illinois.

10 MR. CARLSON: My name is Todd Carlson. I'm

11 an architect, and our office is in Palatine at

12 334 East Colfax Street.

13 MR. DAVENPORT: Jerry Davenport, resident of

14 McHenry, city planner.

15 MR. GIANOPULOS: I'll start. Skip

16 Gianopulos. It's G-I-A-N-O-P-U-L-O-S. Resident of

17 Barrington Hills. I'm a long-time friend of a number

18 of the people here representing on behalf of The

19 Bridge, but Todd Berge and I go back longer than

20 either of us would probably care to acknowledge,

21 publicly.

22 But Todd is a pastor, senior pastor of The

23 Bridge Church. They were -- had the ability and had

24 the opportunity to purchase some land within the

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1 Village of Barrington Hills right on Route 25 on the

2 border of Barrington Hills and Carpentersville. It's

3 a 45-acre parcel. And at that point, Todd approached

4 me and just tried to kind of get a gauge as to whether

5 or not the Village was, you know, would be open to a

6 special use permit, and using that as a way to, kind

7 of, perhaps, protect the borders of the village and

8 protect any de-annexation.

9 Todd and I have had, and the rest of the

10 team, had a lot of conversation since then and have

11 been in the position to provide some advice along the

12 way.

13 I think I'm going to now turn it over to

14 Jerry Davenport, who is going to talk a little bit

15 about the special use permit piece of this.

16 MR. DAVENPORT: I have a handout for the

17 board members. This is a synopsis of some of the

18 things I intend to say. And I have two other exhibits

19 here. One has existing land uses in the area and the

20 other is the zoning.

21 I'll just tell you a little about myself. I

22 know I've never appeared before you, which is kind of

23 unusual because I've appeared before most boards in

24 this area. I have a master's degree in city planning

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1 from the University of North Carolina, student under

2 F. Stuart Chapin. I graduated 1977, just a few years

3 ago. I have been a planning director in several

4 municipalities. I mention Henderson, Culpepper, North

5 Carolina and Virginia. I've also served as a staff

6 attorney and administrative law judge for the

7 Department of Natural Resources for the State of North

8 Carolina, and as a planning consultant locally for the

9 last 20, 25 years.

10 My clients included Village of Cary. I did

11 their zoning ordinance for them back in '99,

12 maintained it all the way through 2009; Village of

13 Algonquin, City of Harvard, did their comp. plan when

14 Motorola was moving in; City of Marengo, did their

15 zoning ordinance, subdivision regs; City of Zion,

16 maintained their zoning for many years; City of

17 Western Springs, did redevelopment plan for them. So

18 I've been in the area quite a bit, familiar with most

19 of the communities around here. I've prepared over a

20 dozen zoning ordinances, subdivision regulations, and

21 comprehensive plans, at least.

22 Currently, president and part owner of the

23 Davenport Group USA, Limited, out of Crystal Lake. We

24 have municipal clients in 19 states and two countries.

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1 My main role with the firm is advising them on

2 business processes, better known as planning,

3 permitting, code enforcement processes. Our clients

4 include the City of Philadelphia and the City of New

5 Orleans, among 30 other municipalities.

6 In terms of the information I gave you, what

7 I wanted to do is I wanted to go through how this

8 particular proposal meets the standards in the zoning

9 ordinance, because I think that's what you're looking

10 at, and I've got -- I've pulled out the six standards

11 from the zoning ordinance to meet the special use

12 permit, and the first standard is that it not be

13 detrimental to or endanger the public health, safety,

14 morals, comfort, or welfare.

15 I would point out to you that churches, in

16 general, are recognized as being compatible in

17 residential districts, as are elementary schools.

18 They're just two uses that are so community oriented

19 that we generally tend to think of them as consistent

20 and favorable for residential districts. And

21 churches, particularly, have, of course, first

22 amendment protections, which other uses do not have.

23 Churches are quiet. They're peaceful community uses,

24 for the most part. They provide a lot of community

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1 services, particularly worship, weddings, funerals,

2 and spiritual education. So those things particularly

3 make them adept at being compatible and not

4 detrimental to the general welfare, in fact, just the

5 opposite.

6 The second standard that the special use

7 will not be injurious to the use and enjoyment of

8 other property in the immediate vicinity for the

9 purposes already permitted, and not substantially

10 diminish and impair property values within the

11 neighborhood. It's for that reason that I gave you

12 the usage sheet, and I want to look at them. The

13 table addresses two things. The first column -- the

14 second column, rather, the middle column addresses

15 what's adjacent, and the third column addresses what

16 is more -- what's in the further area.

17 Let me sort of address the existing land

18 uses first. I marked the parcel we are dealing with

19 as PIQ, parcel in question. And your use is going

20 from north to around to west clockwise. To the north

21 we have a couple residential uses. They are colored

22 in light yellow, and a couple vacant lots adjacent --

23 actually, only one residential use is vacant -- is

24 adjacent to the parcel in question. The other is, I

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1 think it's the Village parcel. To the east side we

2 have two -- three residential lots that -- the first

3 lot being split by the -- by a dotted line, not

4 something I put, but something that marks the

5 boundaries of the Dundee townships, I don't know,

6 their mapping system. The more remote area in terms

7 of existing uses is consistent. It's also residential

8 low-density, mostly estate densities. So you're

9 dealing with 5-acre lots. If you look at any of those

10 lots, you're looking at a 5-acre lot.

11 In the -- to the south we have -- the

12 immediate parcel to the south is a 7-acre parcel.

13 It's vacant. And if you look down a little bit

14 further, you're seeing -- you'll see three parcels in

15 a line, in a row, and those are all basically 1.9-acre

16 parcels that were still vacant -- that are still

17 vacant. More in terms of the farther area, the

18 farther -- the further area pulling up the other two,

19 the other vacant parcels later that they are zoned

20 commercial.

21 As you move out, in terms of existing use,

22 that horrible coloring I did on the red, that is a

23 saloon, a barn. And the purple that is next to it,

24 which is in the village, by the way, is an auto use.

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1 The two blue blobs down there are one is the -- the

2 one to the north is a, it's probably still (inaudible)

3 but it's a baseball field. The other, of course, is

4 an abandoned school. So it was -- I might point out

5 to you that was also zoned in residential. So as you

6 say, elementary schools, churches, frequently are

7 found in residential areas.

8 To the west, the immediate land is the -- is

9 vacant. By the way, all this land I'm talking here

10 and to the west of Route 25 is in the Village of

11 Algonquin -- of Carpentersville, as is all the

12 residential subdivision to the south that's colored in

13 yellow, that's also Village of Carpentersville, as is

14 the saloon, as is the school.

15 The other existing uses along the west side

16 of Route 25, State Route 25, include two auto uses and

17 El Molino's Restaurant.

18 Going further up, you're into Algonquin, and

19 as you move along there, the only existing use is a

20 commercial auto use. It's an auto use at the

21 intersection of 62. Across the street is another auto

22 repair use on 62. So that's the existing uses.

23 And we're dealing with three municipalities.

24 We have the Village of Barrington Hills, of course,

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1 but then to the south, the Village of Carpentersville,

2 south and west, and farther in the northwest corner,

3 the Village of Algonquin. So that's your existing

4 uses.

5 The zoning classifications -- some of what

6 zoning does is it tells you what can happen. It tells

7 you the future. So that's why you consider that as

8 well as the existing. When you look at the zoning,

9 you say, okay, from the north you can see that you got

10 several vacant lots that are -- one of which is

11 5-acre, one is not, it's R-1 zoning. They're probably

12 residential. To the -- farther to the west we have

13 got a couple vacant lots that are -- farther east,

14 rather, we got a couple vacant lots that are adjacent

15 to the PIQ, which I also expect to come in

16 residential. To the south, we have a unique

17 situation. Without -- looking at the zoning only, you

18 would expect that the yellow lots, because they are

19 zoned by the Village to be R-3, would come in in

20 2-acre lots. Of course, they're already subdivided,

21 so 1.9-acre lots. And you'd expect the other areas to

22 come in B-3 zoning, you'd expect to come in

23 commercial. The problem with all that is we've got

24 the road coming through here. The road, if you're

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1 looking at the Autumn Trails Drive, the very bottom of

2 the drive, the road is coming right through that lot,

3 coming right on this lot here.

4 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: Straight east-west?

5 MR. DAVENPORT: Straight east-west until it

6 hits the first of the top of the yellow lots. When it

7 hits the top of the yellow lots, it starts trying to

8 drag to the south, and it's going to take part of the

9 top lot, part of the second lot, and then it's

10 eventually going to cut the next two commercial lots

11 along, more or less, on the southern side. The zoning

12 classification -- as I mentioned to you, the zoning

13 classification of those lots are all Village of

14 Barrington lots -- Barrington Hills lots. The zoning

15 classification for the west side of Route 25 is in the

16 Village of Carpentersville, and it's mostly their C-2

17 and C-3 commercial zoned. I didn't call them

18 right-of-ways. Technically, the zoning should cover

19 right-of-ways. There's one tract that they have left,

20 I think it may be two lots, but there's one tract on

21 the Dundee Township map, and that's residential state

22 use. State use in the Village of Carpentersville does

23 not mean anything like what you think of as a state

24 use, it just means a large lot.

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1 North of the village limits, we have the

2 Village of Algonquin, and their uses that they are

3 proposing are also commercial.

4 So I think when you put it all together,

5 what you are looking at is you are looking at the

6 Village of Barrington Hills being able to retain and

7 implement to a certain extent the residential

8 densities that are already the R-1 densities, the R-1

9 standards that it has. There's R-2 standard --

10 there's R-2 densities and R-3 densities, however,

11 adjacent or pretty close to adjacent to this property.

12 R-3s are adjacent, the R-2s are not, but they're close

13 enough. And so, you know, there could be a good

14 argument for developing this parcel as R-2, R-3, as

15 well as other things.

16 So in terms of the overall density, the

17 question is -- question was whether the proposal would

18 be consistent with whether we have a negative impact

19 on the property values for the adjacent properties.

20 I'm going to point out to you that the church is on a

21 very large, dense, and large track. And the density

22 on the track will be extremely low. It's -- a 45-acre

23 tract is a very large of piece of land, even for a

24 church.

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1 So the density which would be allowable

2 under your ordinances would allow a .05 per acre,

3 which would allow 98,000 square feet of floor area

4 building space. The building church proposes a total

5 floor area of 29,200 square feet in phase one and

6 another 34,200 square feet in phase two. Still be way

7 below the densities allowed in the -- under the

8 ordinance.

9 The other thing I want to point out to you

10 in addition to the very low density is the distance

11 from the residential, existing residential properties.

12 The closest residential property, which is colored

13 yellow on the map, being the ones that are directly

14 east, the top two lots in the Autumn Trails

15 subdivision, the closest one is 609 feet from the

16 building in phase one and 630 feet from the closest --

17 would be the closest structure in phase two. So

18 that's two full football fields. It's a good

19 distance.

20 The -- that's also -- there's also a

21 substantial terrain drop, too, so you're getting some

22 of that advantage as well. The rear yards proposed on

23 this development are currently 450 feet for phase one,

24 300 feet in phase two. I might note 300 feet in phase

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1 two currently abuts the vacant lot, the third lot down

2 on this parcel on the Autumn Trails Road.

3 I'm not an appraiser, but I practiced as a

4 city planner for over 20 years in the area, and I have

5 knowledge of how land uses affect property values.

6 And it's my opinion that this church does not diminish

7 or impair the property values in the neighborhood. In

8 fact, I think that they are generally compatible with

9 residential uses, and development of the church would

10 serve as a nice buffer to the intensive development

11 that is very likely to occur on the west side of

12 Route 25.

13 The third standard is will the use not

14 impede the normal and orderly development of the

15 surrounding -- improvement of surrounding property for

16 uses permitted in the district. And the orderly

17 development of improvement of properties in the

18 district, we are talking about the R-1 district, would

19 be for developing those for residential uses for

20 densities set out in the zoning ordinance. I do not

21 see any reason why the church would have any negative

22 affect on the development of those parcels in that

23 density and locations. For the most part, those lots

24 are already subdivided. So there you are. They're

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1 capable of maintaining the residential use.

2 The fourth standard is will the special use

3 have adequate utilities, access roads, drainage, and

4 other necessary facilities being provided. The

5 development will be reviewed by DOT for roads, for --

6 Kane County for sewage disposal, water and storm

7 drainage, by the Village for all the above. And the

8 church will comply with whatever standards that are

9 imposed by all the different municipal agencies.

10 Fifth, have adequate measures been taken to

11 provide ingress and egress to minimize traffic

12 congestion in the public streets and roads. This

13 parcel will enter and exit from Route 25. And based

14 on traffic counts that I did on April 14th, 22nd, I

15 did some more, actually, in May, I've concluded that

16 the probable number of trips in phase one, based on

17 present uses, will be something under 200 trips per

18 day. The nice part about this, that's -- Route 25 has

19 17,300 trips on it. So we're putting another 200

20 trips, but the nice part about it is when those 200

21 trips occur. Those 200 trips are more likely to occur

22 on a Sunday and Saturday night, and when -- I doubt if

23 there's anything close to 17,000 trips on that road.

24 MEMBER STIEPER: That's Haegers Bend Road,

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1 right?

2 MR. DAVENPORT: I'm sorry?

3 MEMBER STIEPER: Did you say 25, is that

4 Haegers Bend?

5 MEMBER HENNELLY: Yeah.

6 MR. DAVENPORT: So you're really -- it's a

7 nice marriage of two uses. You know, marrying a

8 facility that doesn't put any traffic on roads during

9 peak hours when you have substantial traffic and

10 putting traffic on when there's nothing there or not

11 much there.

12 Lastly, the special use will conform to the

13 applicable regulations in the district which it's

14 located, except such regulations as may be modified by

15 the board. And we will conform to all of the

16 applicable regulations, the density, the front

17 setbacks, side-yard setbacks, rear setbacks. They

18 should not be an issue.

19 If you have any questions, I'm glad to try

20 to answer them.

21 MEMBER GOSS: This red dot down here, is

22 that the bikers bar?

23 MR. DAVENPORT: The red, yes, that is the

24 bar.

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1 MEMBER GOSS: It's not going to affect the

2 bikers bar, I hope.

3 MR. DAVENPORT: I'm sorry?

4 MEMBER GOSS: It's not going to affect that?

5 That's a nice little. I like that. I just don't want

6 it to, you know, mess up the ambiance.

7 MR. DAVENPORT: The use was really tough

8 because when I put the red down, it just wanted to

9 bleed.

10 MEMBER STIEPER: So you discussed there's

11 going to be phase one, which we have here under seven,

12 and there's going to be a phase two? Is that going to

13 be a second building?

14 MR. DAVENPORT: Yes.

15 MEMBER STIEPER: So what's the second

16 building? Are you going to have a church? Is it

17 going to be a traditional A-frame church or do you

18 have the design of the church?

19 MR. DAVENPORT: I'm going to leave that to

20 both Tom and Todd.

21 MEMBER STIEPER: The second phase, what's

22 that building going to be?

23 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I can handle that.

24 MEMBER STIEPER: All right. We'll defer

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1 that question.

2 Just so you're not going to connect to water

3 and sewer under --

4 MR. DAVENPORT: No.

5 MEMBER STIEPER: Carpentersville will do

6 well and septic?

7 MR. DAVENPORT: Correct.

8 MEMBER STIEPER: And you said that the -- I

9 haven't factored out with regard to the maximum

10 buildable lot, but it looks like it's 44 acres.

11 With regard to the -- so about 247 people,

12 is that -- I mean, you're going to have to put a

13 parking lot in there? Yeah, you're going to put,

14 obviously, the parking lot will be there. I don't

15 know if that will be your domain too?

16 MR. BERGE: Yeah, I'll tell you a bit about

17 the story, but Jerry will stay here and jump in.

18 MEMBER STIEPER: And you are?

19 MR. BERGE: I'm Pastor Todd.

20 MEMBER STIEPER: You're Pastor Todd.

21 (Inaudible.)

22 MR. BERGE: Todd Carlson will handle that.

23 MS. DICKSON: You're both talking over each

24 other. It makes it very hard for the court reporter

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1 to take you both down.

2 MR. BERGE: I apologize.

3 MR. DAVENPORT: I restricted my comments in

4 terms of -- to the traffic, which currently is under

5 the -- I think under 200 trips per day. That's both

6 in and out, so 100 in 100 out.

7 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: Is it anticipated there

8 would be a southbound turn out of the property?

9 MR. DAVENPORT: I'm going to leave that for

10 Kane County and DOT, because I'm sure DOT is going to

11 want to weigh in on what they want. Hope they don't

12 ask for sidewalks, so...

13 MEMBER STIEPER: You would be perfect before

14 congress, deferring to somebody else.

15 MR. DAVENPORT: I say that as a joke. I

16 don't know how many times they have asked for them.

17 MEMBER BUETTNER: I have actually a couple

18 questions. So are you hoping for -- for ingress and

19 egress, are you hoping for a stop light at the

20 entrance?

21 MR. DAVENPORT: No, no, these numbers are

22 not going to be anywhere close to the need for a stop

23 light.

24 MEMBER BUETTNER: Across the street from

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1 where the entrance is proposed is Carpentersville

2 zoned C-2 and C-3. What types of businesses are

3 allowed in Carpentersville C-2 and C-3?

4 MR. DAVENPORT: I didn't research in depth.

5 I can't remember them. I think most general business.

6 MEMBER HENNELLY: Where is Molino's on the

7 map?

8 MR. DAVENPORT: Molino's is the purple one

9 on the existing land use. I'm sorry, the red one on

10 the existing land use.

11 MEMBER HENNELLY: Which? That one right

12 there, the red one?

13 MR. DAVENPORT: It's the center of the oreo.

14 MEMBER HENNELLY: So you're much farther

15 south?

16 MR. DAVENPORT: Yes.

17 MEMBER HENNELLY: Where is your entrance

18 going to be, smack dab in the middle, right near the

19 P?

20 MR. DAVENPORT: Yeah, pretty -- I think it's

21 100 or so feet south. I'll let Tom talk about that.

22 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: Could you -- before you

23 go into that, could you go over the properties again

24 to the south of the PIQ?

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1 MR. DAVENPORT: Sure.

2 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: Including the big red

3 rectangle on the bottom.

4 MR. DAVENPORT: You want them in terms of

5 the index and uses?

6 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: Yes.

7 MR. DAVENPORT: The parcel immediately south

8 is a vacant parcel, the big 7-acre parcel. That's

9 7-acres. There's a bit of a dogleg there, and south

10 of that are three -- I think they're supposed to have

11 been 2-acre parcels. I don't measure them that way,

12 but they're all vacant.

13 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: And right now they have

14 no access to ingress or egress, as far as the road is

15 concerned?

16 MR. DAVENPORT: No, I don't think they have

17 any. And when the road goes through, I doubt if

18 they're going to get access to a road.

19 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: Okay. And then the

20 property in the middle, the green acres.

21 MR. DAVENPORT: The two properties to the

22 west of those three lots are also currently vacant,

23 and they're zoned B-3, your village zoning.

24 MEMBER HENNELLY: Where is School District

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1 220 on the big swath of land down here somewhere?

2 MEMBER STIEPER: That's across the street by

3 the -- behind the building he indicated was vacant

4 that was once a school or whatever, I think there's

5 property behind there.

6 MEMBER HENNELLY: Do you know where it shows

7 on the -- I'm looking at the zoning classification

8 map, whereabouts on here?

9 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: There's a vacant

10 property off of Algonquin. Isn't there an

11 institutional property, maybe a daycare center or

12 something?

13 MEMBER STIEPER: Right. It's vacant now,

14 and the land behind there I think is owned by 220 or

15 something.

16 MEMBER ROOT: It looks like right now, I'm

17 just looking at Google Maps, everything seems to be

18 vacant in that area.

19 MR. DAVENPORT: I also did it by Google

20 Maps, and then I also did it by Kane County's --

21 MEMBER ROOT: I don't know how current

22 Google is.

23 MR. DAVENPORT: -- assessor records. Trying

24 to transpose things sometimes you can make a mistake

PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877) 421-0099 PohlmanUSA.com Page 27

1 by a lot or so. I did the best I could.

2 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: Any other questions of

3 this presenter?

4 (No response.)

5 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: Would you like to

6 continue?

7 MR. BERGE: I think I'll step in, if that's

8 okay, and then I'll introduce Todd.

9 I'm Todd Berge, B-E-R-G-E, 653 Kingsbury

10 Court. I'm the senior pastor of our church. I want

11 to tell you about our church. We're only three and a

12 half years old, actually four years old in September,

13 and we started out with about 120 people, and we're

14 just under 300 now. So we're not a fast-growing

15 church, but we've had a significant impact in the

16 community that we've been planted in. So I'm really

17 excited about how the traction that we've had and the

18 favor that we have in the community. And because we

19 are a community-based church and have a very strong

20 team that is our church, it isn't our goal -- you

21 mentioned phase two. The reason we put phase two on

22 here is because I could see that happening some day,

23 but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

24 That original building is meant to be a

PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877) 421-0099 PohlmanUSA.com Page 28

1 multiuse building, which would be used for serving in

2 the community alongside of being a church. And

3 because of the -- some of the events that we have been

4 allowed to be involved in, particularly with the

5 school, I put a list together of some of the things

6 that we've done, but I -- it's just a partial list,

7 really. And in the community and outside of the

8 community, it would be our intention to continue that

9 community base, as your neighbor, and we would hope to

10 use the building for that purpose alongside of the

11 purpose of being a church.

12 MEMBER STIEPER: Is that a day school,

13 Monday through Friday?

14 MR. BERGE: I don't see us doing a day

15 school, but right now we're doing a lot of mentoring

16 and involved with special needs kids and involved with

17 the school significantly. And the school is playing

18 around with the idea of busing. The school that we're

19 in is Algonquin Middle School and Eastview Elementary.

20 I would see us continuing that and expanding on that

21 and to other schools where we provide services for

22 them for free. And one of them would be an

23 after-school program, possibly, where they would bus

24 some kids over until their parents, who are both

PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877) 421-0099 PohlmanUSA.com Page 29

1 working or single parent, could get to their kids.

2 And we would provide that to the kids for free.

3 So, yes, I would see us continuing an

4 involvement in the community, but I imagine that the

5 building that we have proposed, if that's what we

6 build, would keep us for many, many years. That

7 second building would be if at any point we had a

8 worship center, a more typical worship center. You

9 mentioned an A-frame. I don't know what it would look

10 like, to be honest with you. I know this first

11 building isn't meant to look only like a church. It

12 is meant to be a community center along side of the

13 church.

14 MEMBER STIEPER: I'm an Anglican. I can't

15 help.

16 MR. BERGE: So my goal in presenting is just

17 to tell you who we are, and if you have questions

18 about that. Todd is the architect of -- who put the

19 proposal together that you see, and I think he can

20 answer some of the questions about where we placed it,

21 why we placed it and all that. But if you have any

22 questions for me as far as who we are as a church.

23 MEMBER HENNELLY: I have. Is there anybody

24 going to be living on the property?

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1 MR. BERGE: No.

2 MEMBER HENNELLY: Your note here, 18, you

3 invest in a home for trafficked women.

4 MR. BERGE: That is a home outside of our

5 community, and by the purposes -- it's not in

6 Barrington Hills, but for the purposes of their

7 anonymity, we don't broadcast where it is.

8 MEMBER HENNELLY: I just want to make sure

9 you weren't going to build it right there on the

10 property.

11 MR. BERGE: We would not build it there, and

12 by definition it would be unhelpful for us to know

13 where it is. So I know where it is, but very few do.

14 MEMBER STIEPER: How high is the building

15 you are planning on putting up, do you know?

16 MR. BERGE: I believe at its top height is

17 around 28 feet. Does it get higher than 28 feet?

18 MR. CARLSON: It's a two-story building, so

19 28 feet is a good guess at this point. We are in more

20 of a conceptual design phase of the project, but it

21 would be under whatever the zoning ordinance

22 restrictions.

23 MEMBER STIEPER: Definitely under 40 feet,

24 would that be safe to say?

PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877) 421-0099 PohlmanUSA.com Page 31

1 MR. BERGE: Definitely.

2 MR. CARLSON: Yes.

3 MR. BERGE: Before I became a pastor, I was

4 a builder by trade. So I probably will have my

5 fingers in the process from a building perspective.

6 But if you don't have any other questions, I'm going

7 to introduce Todd, and keep things moving. If you

8 have any further questions about who the church is...

9 MR. CARLSON: I'm Todd Carlson,

10 C-A-R-L-S-O-N. So I don't have much to add to what

11 was presented here, although, we haven't talked much

12 about the land layout and what the building looks

13 like. Did you receive copies of -- yes, you did. So

14 you have a sheet there, several sheets. They're

15 currently phase one. Again, phase one is about 247

16 parking spaces, and phase one multiuse space, the

17 assembly space, is designed to handle about 450

18 occupants in the service, and it's also used as a

19 gymnasium and other multiple uses.

20 I can certainty answer any questions. I

21 think one question you had was about where the

22 entrance to the property was along the west side, and

23 that will be somewhat dictated by IDOT, but we're

24 currently showing that location in the center of the

PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877) 421-0099 PohlmanUSA.com Page 32

1 property. So there's good sightlines from both the

2 north and the south to that entrance. The current

3 entrance also has a right out and a left out. So we

4 should be able to get people on and off the road

5 pretty easily.

6 MEMBER STIEPER: What's across the street?

7 I know the area well. I am just trying to get what is

8 across the street from the ingress/egress to the

9 property?

10 MR. CARLSON: Across the street is?

11 MR. BERGE: There are two entrances. It's

12 vacant commercial. That's a bay between two entrances

13 into residential property for Carpentersville, but

14 those -- that distance has got to be 300 yards between

15 those two roads that go into residential. So we would

16 land in between that, and then that area --

17 MEMBER STIEPER: So to the north there's a

18 housing development that's, I believe that's --

19 MR. BERGE: Yeah. It is Carpentersville.

20 It's just past El Molino. Our property hasn't started

21 yet.

22 MEMBER STIEPER: Okay. I'm just trying to

23 get a bearing here.

24 MR. BERGE: So it would be El Molino, then

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1 an entrance into Silverstone, and then there's a long

2 couple hundred feet, couple hundred yards, and then

3 there's another entrance into residential, and that

4 area is commercial.

5 MEMBER STIEPER: Okay. I got it. Just

6 trying to get my bearings here. Thanks.

7 MR. GIANOPULOS: Silverstone is a pretty

8 dense development where it's mostly townhomes.

9 MEMBER STIEPER: Yeah, I know where it is.

10 Right.

11 MR. BERGE: If I can add one more thing,

12 that discussion of all of the land to the south, a lot

13 of that has already been taken in for the parkway

14 that's going to be passing right beneath the property

15 we're talking about. So many of those lots have been

16 already assumed by that road.

17 MEMBER STIEPER: So the parkway, is that

18 going to be south or north of you?

19 MR. BERGE: South. Just south of us.

20 Between those lots in Carpentersville to the south and

21 our property is the parkway running right through

22 there.

23 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: Is it anticipated there

24 would be an entrance to the parkway?

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1 MR. BERGE: On 25 there is, I believe.

2 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: But not from your

3 property?

4 MR. CARLSON: Not from our property.

5 MEMBER HENNELLY: I've got a question for

6 you. The detention pond, the land immediately to the

7 west of it, are there homes on there? We've already

8 had one church with water runoff. I don't want to see

9 again.

10 MEMBER STIEPER: Allegedly.

11 MEMBER ROOT: Allegedly. I don't think

12 we've had that problem.

13 MR. CARLSON: Actually, what happens with

14 detention basins is they actually slow the water down.

15 So what you're doing is collecting all the water --

16 MEMBER HENNELLY: I know that. I just want

17 to make sure. If there's no homes there right now, I

18 don't have a problem.

19 MR. CARLSON: You said west. I believe you

20 mean --

21 MEMBER HENNELLY: East. East. I'm sorry,

22 east.

23 MR. BERGE: Jerry says there are none.

24 MR. DAVENPORT: It's vacant lots.

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1 MS. DICKSON: This property, by the way, is

2 large enough -- and it's coming in at a time when our

3 engineers will be looking to retention or detention on

4 site, so you'll avoid some of the alleged problems

5 that we've had because of the earlier development of

6 other property.

7 MEMBER HENNELLY: I spent some years on the

8 planning commission, and detentions -- oh, that's

9 going to be a dry one. Never was dry. Poor guy put

10 it right in front of my house, so I'm the one that

11 said uh-uh. I'll show you the drawings.

12 MR. ROOT: The topography looks fairly --

13 the lot to the east of you, is that higher or lower?

14 MR. CARLSON: It's lower, yeah. I've had

15 the opportunity to walk the site several times, once

16 with the pastor and once with the civil engineer, and

17 really where the parking and the building are situated

18 are -- it's kind of an oasis. You really can't see --

19 when you're in that land area, you're not really aware

20 of anything beyond you. It's a different world. And

21 so I don't think it's going to have a huge visual

22 impact on anyone, any of the neighbors.

23 MEMBER ROOT: But the building and parking

24 lot will be higher than the properties to the east?

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1 MR. CARLSON: They will be, yes.

2 MEMBER ROOT: Okay.

3 MR. CARLSON: We are taking some of the --

4 the way the topography currently sits, there's three

5 hills, basically, there, and we are taking -- knocking

6 down one of the hills to lower the development down

7 even further into the landscape there.

8 MEMBER ROOT: Okay.

9 MR. BERGE: We have, as part of our

10 presentation for the planning commission, a view of it

11 from Google Maps, and you'll see that this area that's

12 wooded, if you're standing on this property, you can't

13 see this dense wooded area. So those lots are -- you

14 can't see them and they can't see us at all. It's

15 really a separate area. And we're talking about quite

16 a distance to where we would be building.

17 You're smirking.

18 MEMBER HENNELLY: I'm smirking. I heard you

19 say a lot of woods. We've got a tree ordinance, you

20 better watch out.

21 MR. BERGE: Well, the woods aren't on --

22 they're at the back of the property, not where we are.

23 So I think we have already done a tree count and we'll

24 be pretty good.

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1 MEMBER BUETTNER: Are you looking to put up

2 signage other than on the front of your building?

3 MR. CARLSON: Yes, there would be likely a

4 sign on Algonquin Road.

5 MR. BERGE: 25.

6 MR. CARLSON: I'm sorry, not Algonquin Road,

7 25. Thank you for that correction. In fact, I

8 believe the sign is actually shown on the site plan.

9 If you want to look, it's just north of the entrance

10 onto 25.

11 MEMBER ROOT: Oh, yeah.

12 MR. CARLSON: That's probably one of the

13 only ways you're going to ever know there's a church

14 on the property. They'll need to have a sign on 25,

15 otherwise you won't see it.

16 MEMBER BUETTNER: It's going to be a sign

17 that just fits in, I mean, with the requirements?

18 MR. CARLSON: I believe you have a separate

19 sign ordinance. It will comply with that sign

20 ordinance.

21 MEMBER GOSS: Come on, you are making this

22 too easy. You have got it all laid out beautiful.

23 You're going to comply with the sign ordinance.

24 MR. BERGE: I'm sorry.

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1 MEMBER HENNELLY: I thought we were

2 rewriting that.

3 MEMBER ROOT: On Google Maps I'm actually

4 seeing some trails through the property. Is that like

5 riding trails right now or?

6 MR. BERGE: Actually --

7 MR. CARLSON: There are quite a few deer on

8 the property, wildlife. You can tell when you're

9 walking through.

10 MR. BERGE: There are cars that have been

11 back there, and we needed to get access to it. We

12 probably added to it because we needed to get access

13 for the tests. So there are, but there is -- the

14 traffic back there shouldn't be back there, unless it

15 was us in there doing the testing. So you did see

16 that some kids came in from the school in

17 Carpentersville and had worked their way in there with

18 the car.

19 MR. CARLSON: You did mention the tree

20 ordinance. We did try to place the building and the

21 parking lot to avoid as many trees as possible. Most

22 of the ones that we would be taking down do not have

23 any value.

24 MEMBER ROOT: Again, looking at Google Maps,

PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877) 421-0099 PohlmanUSA.com Page 39

1 it's a fairly open area where you're putting it, so.

2 MR. CARLSON: That's correct.

3 MEMBER ROOT: Are there many good trees on

4 the property, like oaks, hickories?

5 MR. CARLSON: I'm not qualified to state

6 that, but in the forested area, I'm sure there's got

7 to be some. We've stayed away from those areas

8 purposely.

9 MEMBER ROOT: It looks to me like it could

10 have been a pasture 50 years ago or farmland. It's

11 pretty rectilinear so, which would lead you to think

12 there probably aren't many great trees out there.

13 MEMBER BUETTNER: The Longmeadow Parkway

14 looks as though it has pedestrian and bicycle, like,

15 lanes on the side of it, at least the proposals that

16 I've looked at. Are you planning on connecting up

17 with those?

18 MR. CARLSON: This particular concept does

19 not address any connection to the parkway.

20 MR. GIANOPULOS: And not adjacent to it, as

21 well.

22 MR. CARLSON: There will be some property

23 separation between our property and the parkway. So

24 we would have to get approval to do anything, but

PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877) 421-0099 PohlmanUSA.com Page 40

1 that's not currently been discussed or planned.

2 MEMBER HENNELLY: How far up the roadway is

3 the main building, 300, 400 feet?

4 MR. CARLSON: It's 400 plus, yeah.

5 MEMBER HENNELLY: Is it going to be lit up

6 brightly?

7 MR. CARLSON: I wouldn't say lit up

8 brightly. I'd say there will be some safety lighting,

9 walkway lighting up to the building. There will be

10 lighting underneath the covered canopy, and there will

11 be lighting in the parking lot so the people can make

12 their way to the church. But I've never heard any

13 discussion about lighting up the building. It would

14 really not be useful in any way, since people really

15 aren't going to be able to see the building very well

16 from 25.

17 MEMBER HENNELLY: Right.

18 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: Any other questions of

19 the presenter at this time?

20 (No response.)

21 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: Does the applicant have

22 any other presenters?

23 MR. BERGE: The only other person you should

24 know is here is Rod Piercey is the lawyer who put

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1 together the packet that you received, and he's here

2 to answer any questions you would have as well. But

3 we're here to answer whatever questions you have.

4 Thank you so much for your time.

5 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: Is there any member of

6 the public who is in attendance who wishes to make a

7 comment or has a question pertaining to this issue?

8 None of the neighbors?

9 MEMBER HENNELLY: Are there any neighbors

10 here?

11 (No response.)

12 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: Any, at this point, any

13 further questions from the board?

14 MEMBER HENNELLY: I have a mechanics

15 question for Mary. Everything we've always done, the

16 petitioner has always either been a landowner in the

17 village or a resident of the village. And they're not

18 either one right now. Are there conditions precedent

19 they don't own this property until this is done? How

20 does that work here?

21 MS. DICKSON: That's not unusual at all

22 where you have the application being signed by both

23 the property owner and by the applicant. That's a

24 normal course of events because perhaps there's a

PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877) 421-0099 PohlmanUSA.com Page 42

1 situation where if they didn't get the zoning that was

2 required, they might not want to acquire the property.

3 And I think in this case, I looked at it originally,

4 you have both the consent to the petition signed by

5 the property owner and by the applicant in this case.

6 That's normal.

7 MEMBER HENNELLY: Okay. All right.

8 MS. DICKSON: The special use, however, will

9 be given to the -- in the name of the applicant at the

10 time the applicant secures, because I assume that this

11 process will be if you get your zoning approval --

12 MR. BERGE: Then we'll purchase the land and

13 it's under contract right now waiting for this

14 decision.

15 MS. DICKSON: And a copy of the contract,

16 just as a point of reference for you, was included

17 within the pack.

18 MEMBER HENNELLY: That's why I found the

19 conditions precedent, that's why.

20 MS. DICKSON: My only concern actually had

21 been with the signage, but as long as you know that

22 your sign has to comply with our code, then unless

23 you're concerned about where the -- I mean, that's

24 just part of the R-1 or the residential district that

PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877) 421-0099 PohlmanUSA.com Page 43

1 a sign is permitted but it's one.

2 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: Wouldn't the state --

3 the state is the governing body over 25; correct?

4 That's a state highway.

5 MEMBER HENNELLY: Uh-huh.

6 MS. DICKSON: But the signage as to -- the

7 signage on your property, you would --

8 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: We control that. But

9 what I was wondering about, don't they have to sign

10 off on the entranceway as to the directions and how --

11 MS. DICKSON: Ingress and egress, yes, that

12 is it's either county or it's state, whoever has

13 jurisdiction over the road.

14 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: Do you have knowledge of

15 the impact of Longmeadow Parkway on this property to

16 the south?

17 MS. DICKSON: No.

18 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: Anna, are you familiar?

19 MS. PAUL: No. I mean, I have a map, but I

20 don't have any detail.

21 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: Okay. I think that

22 would be a value to have a more definitive delineation

23 of the impact on the Barrington Hills.

24 MS. DICKSON: Well, not for -- in general,

PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877) 421-0099 PohlmanUSA.com Page 44

1 yes. I don't know what role that would play

2 necessarily in the application for special use.

3 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: It would just -- to help

4 just clarify the impact on the surrounding property as

5 to how dramatic it's going to be.

6 MS. PAUL: I can go print out a map, if that

7 would be helpful.

8 MEMBER STIEPER: Longmeadow Parkway is going

9 to empty over by Autumn Drive, which really isn't

10 really near the church. They're just going to --

11 MEMBER ROOT: Is it, is it going to come

12 across --

13 MEMBER STIEPER: (Inaudible.)

14 MEMBER ROOT: -- Bolz Road, yeah. So that's

15 south of the property, and I think you said that the

16 actual properties at the southern border of you,

17 that's what it's coming through, not your property.

18 MR. BERGE: Not our property. I don't

19 believe that we are going to end up being adjacent to

20 their property. I think there's still going to be

21 some property between us.

22 MEMBER ROOT: A strip along there.

23 MR. BERGE: Not much.

24 MEMBER ROOT: Yeah.

PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877) 421-0099 PohlmanUSA.com Page 45

1 MR. PIERCEY: You know you're contiguous.

2 MR. BERGE: We are contiguous? Okay.

3 MR. PIERCEY: But contiguous with the

4 easternmost parcels that they required. They have

5 also cut off the southern part of the lot by -- my

6 name is Rodney Piercey, P-I-E-R-C-E-Y.

7 So Longmeadow Parkway will not have any

8 access between Algonquin Road and 25, at least that's

9 what they're saying, and so there will be no way that

10 we could ever get through to it, nor do we want to.

11 What Longmeadow Parkway will probably do is increase

12 the traffic on Bolz Road and Longmeadow Parkway at

13 that intersection at 25. It will increase the value

14 dramatically of the commercial properties there and

15 would potentially increase the value of this property

16 as a commercial property in the future, if this were

17 not a church. So it will have a positive impact on

18 all the comers, negative impact on the residents, but

19 no impact on our church.

20 MEMBER STIEPER: That and the tax exemption,

21 but what can you do.

22 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: Do you know the

23 approximate footage from your property to the

24 right-of-way?

PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877) 421-0099 PohlmanUSA.com Page 46

1 MR. PIERCEY: Yeah, I wonder -- I thought I

2 put a map in this. The map is actually the revised

3 map showing, showing how they have cut off the south

4 part of those two lots that are zoned commercial. I

5 didn't think there was any commercial in Barrington

6 Hills, but somehow I found that is --

7 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: They cut off the south

8 part or the north part?

9 MR. PIERCEY: The south part of these two

10 lots right here, because it's now taken all of this

11 land here. So all that's left is these two lots and

12 this 7-acre lot, and we're contiguous now. These

13 three lots have been taken and it's all, it's all

14 going to -- our notices were sent to, believe it or

15 not, the Kane County Park District or something are

16 the ones that are now getting the taxes for the

17 Longmeadow Parkway, so. So all of this is now

18 Longmeadow Parkway, and we are contiguous for that

19 little strip right there. But as Todd said earlier,

20 there's no way you can cross to get to the road

21 without their permission, and they're not going to

22 grant it.

23 MS. DICKSON: So that the court reporter can

24 note it, you are referring to a map that was part of

PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877) 421-0099 PohlmanUSA.com Page 47

1 your application package?

2 MR. PIERCEY: It's Dundee Township, Section

3 1, et cetera. It's actually the new tax map.

4 MEMBER BUETTNER: Counsel, I have a question

5 about the fact that this property is in the Village of

6 Barrington Hills and the Department of Transportation

7 is responsible for traffic on Route 25, and then

8 there's a different village across the street.

9 Is there any way that the Village of

10 Barrington Hills could become responsible for traffic

11 management or traffic control?

12 MS. DICKSON: On a standard county road, no.

13 If you're concerned about ingress/egress, we could

14 ask. I think you've got in testimony on

15 ingress/egress. If you're concerned about it in terms

16 of how it will impact the surrounding community, you

17 could ask for additional information on that. But

18 that is truly going to be something that's going to be

19 within the purview of the jurisdiction over the

20 highway.

21 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: You know, I just bring

22 it up in the context of I was at that tire facility at

23 the corner of 25 and Algonquin one night last week,

24 and the traffic was quite heavy, and I just kind of

PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877) 421-0099 PohlmanUSA.com Page 48

1 envisioned somebody crossing the traffic to go south.

2 I can see where it could be kind of an experience at

3 some times.

4 MEMBER ROOT: Was that a weekend night,

5 though?

6 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: No, it was a weeknight.

7 It was during, you know, rush hour traffic, but.

8 MEMBER ROOT: Which for a church shouldn't

9 be, if it's weekend traffic, mainly as big of an

10 issue.

11 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: Right. But knowing that

12 the state has to look at that is -- should address

13 that.

14 Any other questions?

15 (No response.)

16 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: I'll now entertain a

17 motion to close the public hearing. And later during

18 this meeting, the board will commence deliberations on

19 the application.

20 MEMBER GOSS: I move we close the public

21 hearing.

22 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: Is there a second?

23 MEMBER STIEPER: Second.

24 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: There being a motion and

PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877) 421-0099 PohlmanUSA.com Page 49

1 second, will the clerk please --

2 MS. DICKSON: Excuse me, before you close

3 public hearing, you should see if anyone in the public

4 has any comment that they would want to make on it.

5 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: I already did that.

6 MS. DICKSON: I'm so sorry. I apologize.

7 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: There being a motion and

8 second, will the clerk please call the roll.

9 COURT REPORTER: Member Root.

10 MEMBER ROOT: Aye.

11 COURT REPORTER: Member Hennelly.

12 MEMBER HENNELLY: Aye.

13 COURT REPORTER: Member Stieper.

14 MEMBER STIEPER: Aye.

15 COURT REPORTER: Member Goss.

16 MEMBER GOSS: Aye.

17 COURT REPORTER: Member Buettner.

18 MEMBER BUETTNER: Yes.

19 COURT REPORTER: Chairman Wolfgram.

20 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: Yes.

21 The motion is carried and the public hearing

22 is closed.

23 ////

24 ////

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1 PUBLIC MEETING

2 SPECIAL USE - RELIGIOUS INSTITUTION

3 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: We will now proceed to

4 discuss the application concerning the Bridge Church

5 of Algonquin. At this time, is there a motion to

6 bring this matter forward?

7 MEMBER GOSS: I move we bring this matter

8 forward.

9 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: What matter is that?

10 MS. DICKSON: A motion to approve a special

11 use.

12 MEMBER GOSS: A motion to approve the

13 special use.

14 MEMBER HENNELLY: I'll second that.

15 MEMBER STIEPER: Why don't we formally

16 state -- do you want me to formally state the motion?

17 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: Yes, please.

18 MEMBER STIEPER: Do you want me to do it or

19 you do it?

20 MEMBER GOSS: Please.

21 MEMBER STIEPER: Formally move we accept the

22 application for special use for The Bridge Church of

23 Algonquin. I move that the establishment of the

24 maintenance or operation of special use will not be

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1 detrimental to or endanger the public health, safety,

2 morals, comfort, or general welfare.

3 Two, that the special use will not be

4 injurious to the use and enjoyment of other property

5 in the immediate vicinity for the purpose already

6 permitted, nor substantially diminish and impair

7 property values within the neighborhood.

8 Three, that the establishment of the special

9 use will not impede the normal and orderly development

10 and improvement of surrounding property for uses

11 permitted in the district.

12 Four, that adequate utilities, access roads,

13 drainage, or other necessary facilities have been or

14 are provided or being provided.

15 Five, that adequate measures have been or

16 will be taken to provide ingress and egress so

17 designed as to minimize traffic congestion in the

18 public street and roads.

19 Six, that the special use shall not in all

20 other respects conform to the -- that the special use

21 shall in all other respects conform to the applicable

22 regulations of the district in which it is located,

23 except as such regulations may in each instance be

24 modified by the Board of Trustees pursuant to the

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1 recommendations of the Zoning Board of Appeals.

2 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: Is there a second to

3 this more detailed motion?

4 MEMBER HENNELLY: I'll make that more

5 detailed second.

6 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: With a motion and a

7 second, is there any discussion?

8 MEMBER GOSS: I'd like to point out that

9 there's another version in our packet. So I've read

10 it and just point out that it's a little bit different

11 verbiage, but it's the same thing. The point is,

12 there aren't any problems. Make reference to it

13 because it's -- it amplifies that it meets the

14 requirements normally pursued in a special use

15 ordinance. This one.

16 MEMBER STIEPER: That's the application.

17 Those are allegations. I just laid forth, basically,

18 the elements for special use under our ordinance.

19 MEMBER GOSS: As it's laid out here in the

20 application. It's laid out twice.

21 MS. DICKSON: So it's your opinion,

22 Mr. Goss, that the applicant statements of facts meets

23 the code requirements for the special use?

24 MEMBER GOSS: Yes. And I'm just pointing

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1 out to my fellow members that it's amplified, I think,

2 here. So as read, it's plenty good, and then they

3 have even more.

4 MEMBER HENNELLY: I'll amplify my second.

5 MEMBER GOSS: Well said.

6 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: With a motion and

7 second, is there any discussion?

8 And, obviously, the area of that we are

9 dealing with here is going through to some of the

10 people that live in that area and are landowners very

11 disruptive period of time where there are radical

12 changes occurring in that part of Barrington Hills.

13 So we just want to approach this with the general

14 thought that is it -- what is best for the community,

15 and making our recommendations at this point in time

16 as consistent with that as possible.

17 MEMBER STIEPER: Can I just make a

18 statement, because I need a clarification here. We're

19 just approving the use tonight. With regards to the

20 actual structure that's going to be put in place,

21 lighting, all those things, is that going to come

22 become before our board or is that simply the building

23 department?

24 MS. DICKSON: Building.

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1 MEMBER STIEPER: Because what I'm, you know,

2 I'm always concerned about is -- I'll just point out

3 what happened on, you know, with the polo and that

4 building over there, which, you know, we approved the

5 use, a structure went up. Quite frankly, I'm not very

6 happy with the structure. And certainly, again, we

7 approve a use and we have no say in the structure. Is

8 that just simply the way it works in Barrington Hills

9 or?

10 MS. DICKSON: Well, that's -- what you're

11 doing is determining whether the zoning would be

12 appropriate for a church, and have they given you

13 enough information relative to their use that you can

14 make that factual determination on zoning. Then it's

15 up to them to do the conceptual plans, and their final

16 plans can go through our building department.

17 MEMBER STIEPER: So the building department

18 is going to make that final conclusion. So if they

19 decide to put up a big steel -- I'm not saying they

20 will, but I'm just saying, hypothetically, just quite

21 frankly, this is what happened, is we approved the use

22 and there's a structure there which --

23 MS. DICKSON: Well, if they needed any

24 further zoning approvals when they finally get into

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1 design phase, if they need variations to any of the

2 current code, they'd have to come back to you.

3 MEMBER GOSS: We have a --

4 MEMBER STIEPER: It's the principle here.

5 We are approving a special use, which is, by

6 definition, which is something which is outside the

7 code, but -- I shouldn't say outside the code, but

8 something which is outside the zoning but permitted by

9 virtue of a special use, and it's a little frustrating

10 that we're limited as to approving the use, but not

11 ultimately what is actually going there. And so --

12 want some protection of residents in the village,

13 whether it be lighting, whether it be structure or --

14 MEMBER GOSS: They still have to meet those

15 requirements anyway. So we haven't made any approval

16 of any variation in our building code, just in our

17 zoning. I don't understand why this is a --

18 MEMBER STIEPER: Because our building code

19 pertains to residential structures. With regard to

20 what these are is commercial structures, for lack of a

21 better word. These are larger structures, whether it

22 be -- and I'm not pointing out your church by any

23 means, it's just as principle here, we approve a use,

24 but the structures going up are not residential

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1 structures. I know we won't get into architectural

2 design here, but the residential structures -- but

3 these are commercial structures going up, and like we

4 had with the polo operation over there, I mean, quite

5 frankly, while the use was fine with me, there's no

6 way I would have ever approved that structure going in

7 there as the way it exists. So I just want to prevent

8 that in the future. If our code doesn't allow for it,

9 sobeit. I'll just get on the record and say the code

10 doesn't allow for it. But I'm asking, does it? In

11 other words, can it come back to us? Because I think

12 there have been zoning board -- zoning boards in

13 historically have been here long enough who actually

14 got into not only the use, but the actual structure

15 that was going in and managed it in such fashion.

16 Now, maybe that was custom and practice or whatever.

17 So I just raise that as an issue. And, again, you

18 know, not for the church here, but just as a practice

19 in this village and something that we consider moving

20 forward, that's all.

21 MEMBER ROOT: I think part of what you're

22 talking about, David, is where they put it and how

23 they put it.

24 MEMBER STIEPER: Well, anything from, you

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1 know, materials, look. And, again -- anything from

2 lighting. Anything from where the parking lot is

3 going to be, anywhere from --

4 MEMBER ROOT: Sure. I guess what I'm saying

5 is can we approve this petition with the stipulation

6 that it should go forward as proposed to us tonight?

7 MEMBER STIEPER: Well, nothing has been

8 proposed with regard to --

9 MEMBER ROOT: Well, they have a site plan

10 and they've got an elevation of the building and they

11 have a basic floor plan of it. So I think you have

12 kind of an idea of what it is. They've told us how

13 tall it will be. Sure, they could make the building

14 chrome. They can't put neon on it, because we don't

15 allow that.

16 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: Well, they didn't really

17 tell us how tall the building will be.

18 MEMBER ROOT: Well, the drawing here that

19 they showed us is two stories, and it looks fairly

20 modest for a building this big, I think. So I guess

21 what I'd say is if this plan were to substantially

22 change by the time they build, then I think they would

23 have to come back.

24 MEMBER STIEPER: Right. I thought I did

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1 with the polo barn, that's all I'm saying.

2 MEMBER ROOT: And somehow it changed?

3 MEMBER GOSS: Well, we do have commercial

4 property, not much. We do have it. And doesn't our

5 building code apply to commercial property? So if we

6 approve this, is there really a problem? If there is

7 a problem, maybe because this isn't residential, the

8 commercial doesn't apply to it and we don't have --

9 and this is not really a house -- I'm trying to figure

10 if we have a problem or not. Because we do have

11 commercial property. We have codes that cover that.

12 MEMBER ROOT: But you could almost argue if

13 someone came to build a house in Barrington Hills,

14 they'd have 10 acres or 15 acres, as long as they're

15 within the setbacks, they could pretty much build

16 anything they want. It could be 30 stories high, I

17 think.

18 MEMBER STIEPER: It's a question for the

19 Village moving forward. I'm not going to be on this

20 board forever. Moving forward is we don't get into

21 architectural design when we get into residential

22 stuff. It's always been past practice or our code

23 doesn't provide for it. Special use we have much more

24 flexibility because we're allowing a special use which

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1 is not something ordained by the code, except for

2 special use, and, therefore, the question is, is this

3 something moving forward or something down the road

4 the Village wants to consider that instead of leaving

5 it up to the building department, that these things

6 come back before our board with regard to the actual

7 structure and what it's going to be. And I know we've

8 got plans here as to layout and that, but we don't

9 have, you know, the actual structure, what it's going

10 to look like and what it's going to be because it's

11 too early in the phase. They're not going to lay out

12 that kind of money. That's all I'm saying. I'll just

13 say leave it for the Village to consider moving

14 forward, that's all.

15 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: Counselor, is there

16 anything in our present procedures or regulations that

17 could be offered to satisfy Mr. Stieper?

18 MS. DICKSON: Well, I think Mr. Root

19 suggested if you are comfortable with the two pages

20 that you've been provided, and I think that they are

21 just general concept plans at this time, but if you

22 are comfortable with those two pages, you wanted to

23 make your approval of the special use conditioned upon

24 reasonable compliance or substantial compliance with

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1 the concept you've been provided, then you could do

2 that.

3 But at this stage in the proceedings when an

4 applicant is coming for zoning, they don't go to full

5 final plan because they don't know -- if you don't get

6 the zoning, that's a lot of money to spend on

7 something that might not go forward.

8 MEMBER GOSS: I would like to suggest we

9 discuss Mr. Stieper's concerns in terms of how we

10 approach this at another meeting among ourselves, but

11 it need not affect the approval of this proposal, as

12 it is presented.

13 I'd like to move that we call for the

14 question, or the proposal as presented, and we take up

15 this discussion of how do we protect ourselves at

16 another time going forward.

17 MEMBER STIEPER: I just object on Robert's

18 Rules, it doesn't allow you to call for the question,

19 but I understand.

20 MEMBER GOSS: Okay. I'm going to call for

21 the question under my own rules.

22 MS. DICKSON: If there are other members of

23 the zoning board who'd like to comment?

24 MEMBER BUETTNER: Are you concerned about

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1 the location of the facility or are you concerned

2 about the, like, the monolith or?

3 MEMBER STIEPER: Exactly. I'm concerned

4 about the actual look, materials used. Because quite

5 frankly, what I thought we were approving at, you

6 know, for the polo barn is -- when I look at that

7 thing, I keep looking at it saying that's not what I

8 approved, okay. So, you know -- and again, we were

9 told back then we couldn't get into how much soil was

10 being pushed, how many, you know, other than the site

11 plan and all the rest, we couldn't get into these

12 specifics. And quite frankly, as a board member, I

13 found it constraining and frustrating because what is

14 there is certainly not what I would have ever

15 approved, but I did based upon what limited authority

16 we had, that's all. If it's a policy moving forward,

17 something moving forward, I'll just make the statement

18 here, but I think Member Goss is correct, so.

19 MEMBER GOSS: May I just also say I'm

20 concerned when I see that structure that you're

21 talking about. But, again, I don't think -- we can

22 move forward on this project. We can discuss how much

23 we want to have control. Frankly, I'm concerned about

24 what you're concerned about, but I wouldn't know how

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1 to address it because we shouldn't get into the

2 details of exactly what things look like, and so

3 forth. That's not the level of scrutiny the

4 government should provide. However, where is that

5 line? I don't know where that line is. Let's talk

6 about that line in the future. Tonight we should

7 approve of this.

8 MEMBER STIEPER: Policy and practice in the

9 past, I've seen, especially under when John Knight ran

10 this board, in fact, they did get into structural

11 components, look, and everything else. And

12 certainly -- I'm just saying that was a practice then.

13 I don't know how it was done before or whatever, but

14 certainly we've been in periods of time where the

15 board did have a more hands-on approach. I don't know

16 if it was pursuant to code or whether it was just

17 custom and practice, that's all.

18 MEMBER BUETTNER: Counsel, do we have a

19 right to ask for, sort of, concept drawings?

20 MS. DICKSON: You can. You know, our code

21 sets forth what needs to be in the application, and

22 actually this is -- I'm not quite sure what more you

23 would want. They have given you a conceptual exterior

24 view and conceptual interior spaces. To go farther

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1 than that moves you more into the building approval

2 process. And right now, you know, they have to --

3 they're not seeking any zoning relief, so they have to

4 fit within our building codes and our zoning code

5 relative to the buildings.

6 MEMBER STIEPER: But our building codes are

7 designed for residences, not commercial structures,

8 that's all I'm saying. I know we have a commercial

9 section, but it's barren, to say the least. But I

10 agree, for purposes -- I'm not trying to be an

11 obstructionist here. It's really discussion for

12 probably another day moving forward.

13 MEMBER GOSS: So David agrees that we might

14 want to discuss it in the future, but we can move

15 forward. So can we move forward? Can someone call

16 for the question, please?

17 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: Does anyone else on the

18 board want to make any comment or question?

19 MEMBER HENNELLY: I have a comment. That

20 I'm in favor of it, as a defensive move. I'd hate to

21 see that be de-annexed and turned into something we'd

22 have no control over. He's over the 20 acres and he's

23 not contingent -- I mean, he's got exterior border.

24 My only suspicion is it's The Bridge Church of

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1 Algonquin. You're going to be in Barrington Hills,

2 but you can't annex into Algonquin because it's

3 Carpentersville across the way. That's just a

4 comment.

5 MEMBER STIEPER: I don't know if you can

6 annex across the road, but it's a natural barrier.

7 But hey, I won't get legal on you. But that's okay.

8 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: Any other concerns,

9 comments, questions?

10 MEMBER STIEPER: So the only amendment would

11 be subject to the site plan or whatever they have

12 submitted, obviously. If there's any change in that,

13 obviously, we would like to see it again.

14 MS. DICKSON: Well, actually you would be

15 making the condition. They have to comply with the

16 condition. You wouldn't see it again, unless they

17 come up with something completely different.

18 MEMBER STIEPER: Right. That's what I'm

19 saying. Right. Exactly.

20 MEMBER ROOT: That would be my only

21 contingency, if it varies significantly from here,

22 then we should revisit it.

23 MS. DICKSON: Is that a condition?

24 MR. BERGE: May I speak? Yeah, I'm content

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1 with that.

2 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: Mr. Stieper, would you

3 like to propose a specific motion in this case,

4 including your concern.

5 MEMBER STIEPER: Well, I already did, except

6 we'll just add the caveat that it complies or it

7 substantially complies with the site plans submitted

8 in the drawings.

9 MS. DICKSON: Well, if I could, we haven't

10 done a special use in a while, but so one is the

11 finding of fact. You find -- which Mr. Stieper's

12 motion did. They have met the finding of fact. And

13 then your second motion is to approve based on that

14 finding of fact, and you can then make the second

15 motion with conditions.

16 MEMBER STIEPER: So let's call the vote on

17 this first motion.

18 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: Okay. Does everyone

19 understand what the motion is at the present time?

20 MEMBER ROOT: Just to --

21 MS. DICKSON: Approve the finding of fact,

22 as Mr. Stieper --

23 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: Would the clerk please

24 call the roll.

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1 COURT REPORTER: Member Root.

2 MEMBER ROOT: Yes.

3 COURT REPORTER: Member Hennelly.

4 MEMBER HENNELLY: Yes.

5 COURT REPORTER: Member Stieper.

6 MEMBER STIEPER: Yes.

7 COURT REPORTER: Member Goss.

8 MEMBER GOSS: Yes.

9 COURT REPORTER: Member Buettner.

10 MEMBER BUETTNER: Yes.

11 COURT REPORTER: Chairman Wolfgram.

12 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: Yes.

13 MS. DICKSON: To approve the special use.

14 MEMBER STIEPER: You want me to make that

15 motion too?

16 MS. DICKSON: Sure.

17 MEMBER STIEPER: I move that the special use

18 be approved subject to or in addition with the caveat

19 that it substantially comply with the drawings that

20 were submitted with the application.

21 Do I need to read the drawings into the

22 record or?

23 MEMBER BUETTNER: They are dated 3-12, 2018.

24 MEMBER STIEPER: Dated 3-12, 2018, by

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1 Carlson Architects -- or architecture.

2 Is that sufficient enough?

3 MS. DICKSON: Yes.

4 MEMBER HENNELLY: I'll second that.

5 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: Any discussion or

6 clarification?

7 (No response.)

8 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: There being no further

9 discussion on the special use application for The

10 Bridge Church of Algonquin, I would ask the clerk to

11 call the roll.

12 COURT REPORTER: Member Root.

13 MEMBER ROOT: Yes.

14 COURT REPORTER: Member Hennelly.

15 MEMBER HENNELLY: Yes.

16 COURT REPORTER: Member Stieper.

17 MEMBER STIEPER: Yes.

18 COURT REPORTER: Member Goss.

19 MEMBER GOSS: Yes.

20 COURT REPORTER: Member Buettner.

21 MEMBER BUETTNER: Yes.

22 COURT REPORTER: Chairman Wolfgram.

23 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: Yes.

24 The motion carries.

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1 There being no further business before the

2 Zoning Board of Appeals, is there a motion to adjourn?

3 MEMBER STIEPER: So moved.

4 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: Second?

5 MEMBER GOSS: Second.

6 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: All those in favor,

7 please signify by saying aye.

8 (Chorus of ayes.)

9 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: Opposed?

10 (No response.)

11 CHAIRMAN WOLFGRAM: Motion carries. 7:46.

12 (WHICH WAS AND IS ALL OF THE

13 MATTERS PRESENTED AT SAID MEETING.)

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

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1 STATE OF ILLINOIS ) ) SS. 2 COUNTY OF C O O K )

3

4 I, CYNTHIA L. PEESEL, Certified

5 Shorthand Reporter and Notary Public doing business in

6 the City of Chicago, County of Cook, and State of

7 Illinois, state that I reported in machine shorthand

8 the matters presented at the public meeting of the

9 Barrington Hills Zoning Board of Appeals on the 14th

10 day of May, 2018, and that the foregoing is a true and

11 correct transcript of my shorthand notes so taken as

12 aforesaid, and contains all the matters presented at

13 said meeting, to the best of my knowledge and ability.

14

15

16

17

18

19 ______20 Cynthia L. Peesel, CSR License No. 084-002656 21 May 23, 2018

22

23

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PohlmanUSA Court Reporting (877) 421-0099 PohlmanUSA.com