Work of the Cabinet Secretary 2012–13
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House of Commons Public Administration Select Committee Work of the Cabinet Secretary 2012–13 Oral evidence Thursday 24 May 2012 Sir Jeremy Heywood KCB CVO, Cabinet Secretary Ordered by The House of Commons to be printed 24 May 2012 HC 133-i Published on 10 October 2012 by authority of the House of Commons London: The Stationery Office Limited £5.50 The Public Administration Select Committee The Public Administration Select Committee is appointed by the House of Commons to examine the reports of the Parliamentary Commissioner for Administration and the Health Service Commissioner for England, which are laid before this House, and matters in connection therewith, and to consider matters relating to the quality and standards of administration provided by civil service departments, and other matters relating to the civil service. Current membership Mr Bernard Jenkin MP (Conservative, Harwich and North Essex) (Chair) Alun Cairns MP (Conservative, Vale of Glamorgan) Michael Dugher MP (Labour, Barnsley East) Charlie Elphicke MP (Conservative, Dover) Paul Flynn MP (Labour, Newport West) Robert Halfon MP (Conservative, Harlow) David Heyes MP (Labour, Ashton under Lyne) Kelvin Hopkins MP (Labour, Luton North) Greg Mulholland MP (Liberal Democrat, Leeds North West) Priti Patel MP (Conservative, Witham) Lindsay Roy MP (Labour, Glenrothes) Powers The powers of the Committee are set out in House of Commons Standing Orders, principally in SO No 146. These are available on the Internet via www.parliament.uk. Publications The Reports and evidence of the Committee are published by The Stationery Office by Order of the House. All publications of the Committee (including press notices) are on the Internet at http://www.parliament.uk/pasc. Committee staff The current staff of the Committee are Emily Commander (Clerk), Charlotte Pochin (Second Clerk), Alexandra Meakin (Committee Specialist), Paul Simpkin (Senior Committee Assistant) and Su Panchanathan (Committee Assistant). Contacts All correspondence should be addressed to the Clerk of the Public Administration Select Committee, Committee Office, First Floor, 7 Millbank, House of Commons, London SW1P 3JA. The telephone number for general enquiries is 020 7219 5730; the Committee’s email address is [email protected]. List of witnesses Thursday 24 May 2012 Sir Jeremy Heywood KCB CVO, Cabinet Secretary Ev 1 cobber Pack: U PL: COE1 [SO] Processed: [09-10-2012 15:01] Job: 021500 Unit: PG01 Source: /MILES/PKU/INPUT/021500/021500_o001_th_Corrected PASC 24 05 12 (HC 133).xml Public Administration Committee: Evidence Ev 1 Oral evidence Taken before the Public Administration Committee on Thursday 24 May 2012 Members present: Mr Bernard Jenkin (Chair) Alun Cairns Robert Halfon Paul Flynn Kelvin Hopkins ________________ Examination of Witness Witness: Sir Jeremy Heywood KCB CVO, Cabinet Secretary, gave evidence. Q1 Chair: Could I welcome our witness to this Q5 Chair: How often do you personally meet a session on the work of the Cabinet Secretary? Could journalist or commentator? you identify yourself formally for the record, please? Jeremy Heywood: Very infrequently, frankly. Jeremy Heywood: Sir Jeremy Heywood, Cabinet Secretary. Q6 Chair: Is it at your invitation or their request? Chair: Can I just ask a gentle opening question? Your Jeremy Heywood: I get requests from time to time, role has been split from your predecessor’s in terms of and I usually agree to meet people whom I have not the Head of the Civil Service, so what is your average met before. I have generally not met journalists over working day like now? What do you tend to be doing the years, but people have now advised me that, given each day? that I have a reasonably prominent position and Jeremy Heywood: In terms of the length of time or people write about me, it is useful to keep in touch what I do in a day? with them from time to time. Chair: What you do. Jeremy Heywood: I come in to work in the mornings Q7 Chair: Do you find if somebody is writing about early on, usually with Bob Kerslake. It is a good No. 10, it is quite useful to ask them to come in? opportunity to take half an hour to chat through the Jeremy Heywood: Yes. I don’t usually take much of day with him. the initiative, to be honest, but I suppose I am slightly more receptive now when people invite me to have Q2 Chair: What time is that, usually? coffee or something. I will generally do that now, Jeremy Heywood: We normally get into the car usually on background only, but basically my job is together at about 7.30, or something like that. I catch not to be in the newspapers and not to be in the up on emails when I get into the office, or have a magazines. I am not doing a very good job of that at meeting with Francis Maude or Oliver Letwin at 8. I the moment, but I try my best to stay invisible. usually have a session with the No. 10 team, often involving the Prime Minister, in the mornings. Q8 Robert Halfon: Are you on Twitter? Jeremy Heywood: I am not on Twitter. Bob is on Q3 Chair: So that is your morning briefing on press Twitter. and what is happening that day? Jeremy Heywood: Yes, which I try to get to if I can. Q9 Chair: One of our concerns was that there was a lot of very negative criticism about the splitting of Q4 Chair: It is not a separate political meeting, then? the role of Cabinet Secretary and Head of the Civil Jeremy Heywood: No, it is a combination of civil Service—that you would finish up with a lot of power servants and political people—a useful session. but much less responsibility. Is that what it feels like? Obviously on some days we have Cabinet, which Jeremy Heywood: No, it does not feel like that at all, dominates the morning. On other days, on to be honest. First of all, on the split, I think it is Wednesdays, we have the Permanent Secretaries’ working really well. I think most of our Permanent meeting whilst the Prime Minister is preparing for Secretary colleagues would now argue that it is a Prime Minister’s Question time. I will generally have really good idea. It gives me the opportunity to serve a weekly bilateral with the Deputy Prime Minister. the Prime Minister, the Deputy Prime Minister and the The Deputy Prime Minister has several other Cabinet as a whole. Previously I was frankly working meetings, which I will attend. There are a series of just for the Prime Minister, so it has given me extra policy meetings; then we have a regular routine where bandwidth to do that. Secondly, it means that Bob can the Civil Service Management Board meets under focus on the capacity-building side of the Civil Bob’s chairmanship. I obviously sit on that. Service, leading the Civil Service reform programme. We try to get out and about to see Departments. I have Clearly they are different roles—very supportive of been to Scotland, Wales and a few other Departments each other all the time, but distinct roles, dual to talk to them about the issues they are facing. It is a responsibility. That is working very well. combination of policy meetings, management In terms of how my role has changed, I definitely feel meetings, catch-up meetings and so on. sitting in 70 Whitehall, which is what I do now, is a cobber Pack: U PL: COE1 [E] Processed: [09-10-2012 15:01] Job: 021500 Unit: PG01 Source: /MILES/PKU/INPUT/021500/021500_o001_th_Corrected PASC 24 05 12 (HC 133).xml Ev 2 Public Administration Committee: Evidence 24 May 2012 Sir Jeremy Heywood KCB CVO different role. I have a responsibility to the whole politicians. They have to come to agreements Cabinet, rather than just to No. 10. Obviously I need themselves. Obviously, the Deputy Prime Minister, to maintain my close links with the Prime Minister’s the Prime Minister and other Ministers ask the civil office and with the Prime Minister, because he expects servants occasionally to help them try and find areas me to be one of his key advisers, but I work now for of common ground, to filter through issues and the Cabinet as a whole. I spend quite a lot of time with pinpoint the issues that really do need to be resolved the Deputy Prime Minister or working issues across at a political level, so I do get involved a lot in issues Whitehall for the Deputy Prime Minister, and I feel as that divide them, but frankly I also get involved though the role has evolved quite a lot. equally in issues that divide Departments from one another, not just splits that break down along Q10 Chair: What about the division between policy Coalition lines but Departmental lines. That is what I and implementation, or policy and administration? Do have been doing for much of the last 20 years of my you feel that is an appropriate division of roles career, frankly. between you and Sir Bob? Jeremy Heywood: No, I don’t think that is the Q13 Kelvin Hopkins: It strikes me, as you say, that division of roles. The division of roles really is you meet the Prime Minister and the Deputy Prime between policy and implementation on the one hand, Minister separately each week. and the capacity of the Civil Service, the skills of the Jeremy Heywood: Yes. Civil Service, the long-term capability of the Civil Kelvin Hopkins: So you may have a kind of Service, and obviously to some extent the diplomatic role, trying to square circles between them.