Second Session • Thirty-Seventh Legislature

of the

Legislative Assembly of

DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS

Official Report (Hansard)

Publishedu11der the authorityof The Ho11ourab/eGeorge Hickes Speaker

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Vol. LI No.6- 1:30 p.m., Thesday, December 12,2000

ISSN 0542-5492 MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Seventh Legislature

Member Constituency Political Affiliation

AGLUGUB, Cris The Maples N.D.P. ALLAN, Nancy St. Vital N.D.P. ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thompson N.D.P. ASPER, Linda Riel N.D.P. BARREIT, Becky, Hon. Inkster N.D.P. CALDWELL, Drew, Hon. N.D.P. CERILLI, Marianne Radisson N.D.P. CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan N.D.P. CUMMINGS, Glen Ste. Rose P.C. DACQUAY, Louise Seine River P.C. DERKACH, Leonard Russell P.C. DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk N.D.P. DOER, Gary, Hon. Concordia N.D.P. DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood P.C. DYCK, Peter Pembina P.C. ENNS, Harry Lakeside P.C. FAURSCHOU, David Portage Ia Prairie P.C. FRIESEN,Jean, Hon. Wolseley N.D.P. GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GILLESHAMMER, Harold Minnedosa P.C. IIELWER, Edward Gimli P.C. HICKES, George N.D.P. JENNISSEN, Gerard Flin Flon N.D.P. KORZENIOWSKI, Bonnie St. James N.D.P. LATHUN, Oscar, Hon. The Pas N.D.P. LAURENDEAU, Marcel St. Norbert P.C. LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. La Verendrye N.D.P. LOEWEN, John P.C. MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St. Johns N.D.P. MAGUIRE, Larry Arthur-Virden P.C. MALOWAY,Jim Elmwood N.D.P. MARTINDALE, Doug Burrows N.D.P. McGIFFORD, Diane, Hon. Lord Roberts N.D.P. MIUYCHUK, MaryAnn, Hon. Minto N.D.P. MITCHELSON, Bonnie P.C. MURRAY, Stuart Kirkfield Park P.C. NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom N.D.P. PENNER, Jack Emerson P.C. PENNER, Jim Steinbach P.C. PITURA, Frank Morris P.C. PRAZNIK, Darren Lac du Bonnet P.C. REID, Daryl Transcona N.D.P. REIMER, Jack Southdale P.C. ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Rupertsland N.D.P. ROCAN, Denis Carman P.C. RONDEAU, Jim Assiniboia N.D.P. SALE, Tim, Hon. Fort Rouge N.D.P. SANTOS, Conrad Wellington N.D.P. SCHELLENBERG, Harry N.D.P. SCHULER, Ron Springfield P.C. SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St. Boniface N.D.P. SMITH, Joy Fort Garry P.C. SMITH, Scott N.D.P. STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo P.C. STRUTHERS, Stan Dauphin-Roblin N.D.P. TWEED, Mervin Turtle Mountain P.C. WOWCHUK, Rosann, lion. Swan River N.D.P. 191

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA

Tuesday, December 12,2000

The House met at 1:30 p.m. THAT the said Health Centre also contains the administrative support fo r home care in the area, PRAYERS with home care workers reporting in and out of the centre; and ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS THAT the loss of the Health Centre would be a PRESENTING PETITIONS major economic set back to the commercial well being of downtown Transcona and the entire Health Centre Transcona community; and

Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the petition of Warna THAT the people of Transcona were not Sheridan, Donna Rogerson, Michele Costen and consulted prior to the Provincial Government others praying that the Legislative Assembly of making the decision to relocate the Health Manitoba request that the Minister of Health Centre and that the plan fo r its relocation to a (Mr. Chomiak) and the First Minister (Mr. Doer) 'strip mall district' runs contrary to all concepts instruct the Regional Health Authority of community development; and to end its plans to remove the Health Centre at 108 Bond Street fr om Transcona and to consider THAT there is plenty of space in downtown finding existing space in downtown Transcona. Transcona fo r the construction of a permanent facility or fo r the leasing of new space or for the READING AND RECEIVING PETITIONS expansion and renovation of the existing facility.

Health Centre WHEREFORE YOUR PETITIONERS Mr. Speaker: I have reviewed the petition of the HUMBLY PRAY THAT the Legislative honourable Member for Charleswood (Mrs. Assembly of Manitoba request that the Minister Driedger). It complies with the rules and of Health and the First Minister of Manitoba practices of the House. Is it the will of the House immediately instruct the Winnipeg Regional to have the petition read? [A greed] Health Authority to end its plans to remove the Health Centre at 108 Bond Street fr om Will the Clerk please read. Transcona and instead direct the WRHA to consider finding existing space in downtown Madam Clerk (Patricia Chaychuk): The Transcona, since much space exists, fo r both petition of the undersigned citizens of the their short term and long term facility needs. province of Manitoba, humbly sheweth: TABLING OF REPORTS THAT the Health Centre, located in downtown Transcona at 108 Bond Street, is an important Hon. Ron Lemieux (Minister of Consumer government service to the community of and Corporate Affairs): Mr. Speaker, I am Transcona and surrounding areas; and pleased to table the following three copies pursuant to section 13 of The Trade Practices THAT the said Health Centre is centrally Inquiry Act, being chapter 110 of the Statutes of located, close to major bus routes, and therefore Manitoba, 1970. convenient to the people, with its community based services of Pre-natal and Post-natal care, I have the honour to report that no inquiries Public Nurse consultations, Immunizations, were commenced subsequent to last year's date, Vaccinations, and Mental Health services; and December 8, 1999. I92 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December I2, 2000

Hon. Diane McGifford (Minister of Culture, The bill will also remove restrictions on Heritage and Tourism): Mr. Speaker, I am access to older Vital Statistics event records pleased to table the fo llowing reports, copies of currently only available to fam ily members. which have already been distributed: the Copies of birth registrations over I00 years old, Department of Culture, Heritage and Tourism marriage registrations over 80 years old, and Annual Report I999-2000; Manitoba Arts death registrations over 70 years old will also be Council Annual Report I999; Seniors available to the general public. Directorate Annual Report I999-2000; Manitoba Lotteries Corporation Annual Report I999-2000; Motion agreed to. Manitoba Liquor Control Commission Six­ Month Report for the period April I to Introduction of Guests September 30, 2000; Manitoba Liquor Control Commission Three-Month Report for the period Mr. Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions I would April I to June 30, 2000; the Status of Women like to draw the attention of all honourable Annual Report I999-2000; the Manitoba members to the public gallery where we have Women's Advisory Council Annual Report with us today from Ralph Brown School 26 I999-2000. Grade 6 students under the direction of Mrs. Cora Duffy. This school is located in the I am also pleased to table the fo llowing constituency of the honourable Attorney General report: Manitoba Lotteries Corporation Second (Mr. Mackintosh). Quarter Report for the period April I to Also in the public gallery from Maples September 2000. Collegiate, we have 2I Grade II students under the direction of Mr. Howard Kowalchuk. This * (13:35) school is located in the constituency of the honourable Member for The Maples (Mr. Hon. Eric Robinson (Minister of Aboriginal Aglugub). and Northern Affairs): Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to table the I999-2000 Annual Report of I would like to also draw the members' the Department of Aboriginal and Northern attention to the Speaker's Gallery where we have Affairs, copies of which have been previously with us today Mr. Victor Tootoo who is the distributed. Assistant Deputy Minister of Finance fo r the Government ofNunavut territory. Also, I will let INTRODUCTION OF BILLS people know Victor is my nephew.

Bill 9-The Vital Statistics Amendment and On behalf of all honourable members, I Consequential Amendments Act welcome you here today.

Hon. Ron Lemieux (Minister of Consumer ORAL QUESTION PERIOD and Corporate Affairs): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Aboriginal and Budget Northern Affairs (Mr. Robinson), that leave be Tax Competitiveness given to introduce Bill 9, The Vital Statistics Ameil<:ltlte�t and Consequential Amendments Mr. (Leader of the Official Act; Loi modifiant la Loi sur les statistiques de Opposition): Mr. Speaker, we know that when l'etat civil et modifications correlatives, and that the Premier had the opportunity to show the same be now received and read a firsttime. Manitobans that Today's NDP was diffe rent than yesterday's NDP we found out that they failed. Motion presented. They had the opportunity to pass on the full benefit of the fe deral tax savings to Manitobans. Mr. Lemieux: This bill will remove restrictions When he had that chance, he failed. He decided for a child's surname, which will allow parents to that he wanted to keep the money himself for the follow their cultural and ethnic naming Government because he thinks he knows how to traditions. spend it better than Manitobans do. December 12, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 193

In fact, Mr. Speaker, during the pre-Budget because they feel provoked, they feel sensitive consultations, Manitobans were shocked to hear on this issue. They are the ones that raised taxes the Premier (Mr. Doer}-[interjection] Well, they again and again and again. were shocked to hear that the Premier was actually thinking about raising taxes by Mr. Speaker: On the point of order raised by introducing new ones. Obviously our Premier the honourable Opposition House Leader, I did not fall far from the Howard Pawley apple would just like to remind all honourable tree. ministers that according to Beauchesne's answers to questions should be brief and deal My question to the Deputy Premier, Mr. with the matter raised andto not provoke debate. Speaker, is: As you prepare for the upcoming I just throw that out to all the ministers. Budget, what plan do you have to increase Manitoba's tax competitiveness, an area in which *** we have fallen so far behind the other provinces in the last 14 months? Mr. Speaker: The honourable Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, to conclude her * (13:40) comments.

Hon. Jean Friesen (Deputy Premier): I thank Ms. Friesen: I was merely trying to indicate to the honourable member for that question and the Leader of the Opposition that there was some would like him perhaps to begin one of his responsibility on his part to look at the issues questions one day with an assumption of some that Manitoba is facing in taxation, and many of responsibility and an assumption for the number those are the ones that were introduced by the of times, 79 times over and over again, that this previous government. previous governmentraised taxes. Mr. Murray: Mr. Speaker, when you talk about Mr Speaker, they raised them in user fees; responsibility, in the last Budget this they raised them in seniors fishing licences; they Government for every $8 they spent they only raised them particularly in property taxes. cut $1 of tax relief, and that is a shame. I think that is a shame. While the Minister of Finance Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. (Mr. Selinger) is meeting with other provincial ministers of Finance, I wondered if he might Mr. Speaker: Order. have an opportunity to pick up any tips, say, from the ministers of Finance from Point of Order Saskatchewan or Ontario who are turning Manitoba into an island of high taxes unto itself Mr. Marcel Laurendeau (Opposition House What are this Government's plans to bring us Leader): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. into line with the rest of Canada? Beauchesne's 417: "Answers to questions should be as brief as possible, deal with the matter Ms. Friesen: I think the Leader of the raised and should not provoke debate." Opposition must be unaware that in the last Budget we delivered millions of dollars in Just in case this minister is not aware, she personal income tax cuts to Manitobans. We also does not have the leader's latitude. She should be began to reverse the decades of neglect of the responding to the questions being put. previous government in property taxes.

Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House When they were in power, in the first years Leader): Mr. Speaker, a point of order really­ of the Tory government, they brought in a $150 unfortunate; it is unbelievable. Obviously the tax increase to every Manitoban on the property members opposite want everyone to hear their tax. We have begun to reverse that in this last questions and want no one to hear the answers Budget, and we shall, according to our election and the truth. If the Opposition is arguing that promises, be continuing with that. In addition, somehow the answer was provocative, it is only the numerous user fees that this previous 194 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 12, 2000 government introduced we have begun to drinking party which occurred in a Manitoba reverse as we, for example, have removed the Housing complex, is the policy of zero tolerance tax essentially that was on northern patient regarding violence still in effect for Manitoba transfer. Housing tenants?

Budget Hon. Tim Sale (Minister of Family Services Tax Reductions and Housing): The answer is yes.

Mr. Stuart Murray (Leader of the Official Mr. Reimer: If the answer is yes, then why are Opposition): Will the Deputy Premier give people still being put in violent positions where Manitobans and this House a commitment that we read in the paper where they are put in she will lower taxes in the upcoming Budget? positions where they do not fe el safe in Manitoba Housing? I get phone calls from * (13:45) people saying that they are worried about the conditions in the Manitoba Housing. Can he Hon. Jean Friesen (Deputy Premier): I think table any type of correspondence that is in effect what we have here is either the Alliance Party is saying that these rules are still in effect? speaking or the Tory Party is speaking or the Reform Party is speaking. I am not sure who is asking this question. Mr. Sale: I think that the former minister and myself both take the issue of violence in family I think what we also have is a previous housing in Manitoba Housing extremely governmentwhich is still particularly, what shall seriously. That is why I would reference the I say, smarting over the last election and their rules that were brought in under the previous 50-50 plan fo r Manitobans. Manitobans elected a government as sound. We have certainly, during government which is committed to restoring the time that I have been minister, removed health care and we are doing that. They elected a people fr om our public housing units when they government which was committed to making have broken and violated those rules. That often opportunity for young people through the results in protests to members opposite. I think at expansion of post-secondary education least on several occasions I am aware of those enrolment and we are doing that. There are many situations. Nevertheless those people have not ways to make Manitoba competitive. This been allowed to continue to put at risk the Opposition has only one perspective, and the tenants who have a right to the same kind of member will have to in fact wait for the Budget peaceful living conditions that we all expect in for those kinds of issues. the homes that we live in.

Public Housing When we receive a complaint, we act on it Safety/Security Regulations immediately. There is a process for giving people warning, as the previous minister knows. Mr. Jack Reimer (Southdale): On December We have to be cautious that we do not always 11, 1997, new rules regarding criminal and simply move precipitously unless we have clear violent related activity at Manitoba Housing evidence, but where there is clear evidence of residences were implemented, and I would like violence, clear evidence of any kind of to just table those rules at this time. The rules immediate threat, under my stewardship just as I were adopted after consultation with tenant believe under the previous government, this was associations and the Winnipeg police and were acted upon in a very quick manner. established to ensure the health, safety and security of Manitoba Housing tenants and their families. Mr. Reimer: I thank the minister for the explanation in regard to the continuation of the I would like to ask the Minister of Housing, policy because I believe the response I am in light of the recent tragedy involving the getting back that it has not necessarily been in stabbing death of a man after an all-night effect- December 12, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 195

Mr. Speaker: Order. The honourable We have had a substantial reduction in turnover. GovernmentHouse Leader, on a point of order. We have had a substantial reduction in the number of students who have moved from one Point of Order school to another. We have had a substantial reduction in vacancy and in complaints, and that Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House is a matter of co-operation among Child and Leader): I wonder if you could ask the Family Services, Housing, the community honourable member if he came here with a constable, the community school. I am very supplementary question. pleased with the progress that is being made in that particular building. Mr. Speaker: On the point of order raised by the honourable Government House Leader, he Aboriginal Child and Family Services does have a point of order. Beauchesne's Transition Plans Citation 409(2) advises that a supplementary question should not require a preamble. Mr. Glen Cummings (Ste. Rose): The devolution and transfer of services to Metis and *** Aboriginal Family Services is proceeding quickly. This is a sensitive and a matter for care Mr. Speaker: I would ask the honourable of children, which is a very critical area, and a member to please put his question. process that we support. I wonder if this minister is prepared to share any of his transition plans Mr. Reimer: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I will with the public. start it then with a question. Can the minister also inform this House-there seems to be a Hon. Tim Sale (Minister of Family Services continuous increase of gang activity in public and Housing): I am delighted with that housing-whether this problem has been question, and I am delighted to know that the addressed and whether they are working in any Opposition shares support for this important type of program with the police on gangs that are initiative. I am pleased to tell the member that now occupying a lot of the tenants' residences over 200 Manitobans fr om all areas of our within Manitoba Housing complexes, whether province who work in the Child and Family there have been further initiatives to try to quell Services system and in allied systems are gang activity in public housing? currently completing, under seven working groups, the initial planning process which will * (13:50) yield the grist for a combined implementation plan that we hope will be laid before the three Mr. Sale: If I may, just on the previous partners, the Metis Federation, First Nations of question, tell the member opposite that there Manitoba, north and south, and the Government were no complaints from that building in regard of Manitoba in the spring. We expect that that to violence during the month of December. The will be a very detailed plan. I am very pleased only previous complaint in recent months was with the amount of grass roots participation that another suite in another area, so not involving there has been. this person. So this is not a situation where there was any previous complaint about this particular I am also very pleased that the current person. agencies, non-Aboriginal agencies, as well as the labour organizations have supported this In regard to the violence issue in regard to initiative, and we will be working together with gangs, I am informed that in fact the opposite is them to provide the continuity of service that I true. We have removed a number of people who think is so important in this area. allegedly had gang activities or gang linkages in a couple of projects. I will not name them for Mr. Cummings: The continuity of care is obvious reasons, but one of the ones that the critical, and this process is supported by the former member was involved with in terms of a current staff, but many of them are feeling tenant-management initiative, it is one of those. excluded, despite the fact that the minister says 196 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 12, 2000 that he has large numbers participating in his Melita tried to contact doctors in Brandon and transition. Will he provide some assurance to the was told to send him directly to Winnipeg. With current staff as to what their future may be? no one in Brandon being available to treat him, his neighbours then drove him all the way to Mr. Sale: I think that there are three very Winnipeg to the Health Sciences Centre, but in serious components of this initiative. The first is the end part of the thumb still had to be the care of children. First Nations and Metis amputated. Can the Minister of Health explain people have for too long been unable to care for why a patient in Melita must travel at least four their children and families unless they were in a hours to Winnipeg in order to obtain adequate specific situation on reserve and in the case of treatment for a severely cut thumb? the Metis people not at all. Hon. Dave Chomiak (Minister of Health): As The second concern is the ability of the new has been the tradition in the past, I would agencies and the expanded Aboriginal First appreciate if the member would forward to me Nations agencies to undertake this responsibility the particular instances and the particular which means a process of finding the skilled information regarding that, and I will do a people or training more people. This will be a follow-up, as we always do and have always job initiative that will ultimately provide well done in this Chamber with respect to particular over 500 skilled, permanent, well-paying jobs to issues concerningpatient care. communities who badly need those jobs and who will become capable, I am sure, of using the Mr. Maguire: Mr. Speaker, can the Minister of resources associated with those jobs very well. Health, who promised he would fix health care Then, finally, but not least, and we are really in six months, explain why he is allowing this thinking in a triangle here, Mr. Speaker, we have kind of highway medicine to be inflictedon rural the existing staff who have served faithfully and Manitobans? creatively in many cases the children and families of all of the province. They must have a Mr. Chomiak: Mr. Speaker, as I indicated, I fair treatment in this process as well. would appreciate if the member would forward the particulars of that to me. I might also add * (13:55) that we put more resources into emergency services in rural Manitoba this year than at any Mr. Cummings: Mr. Speaker, very briefly, time in the past decade. When members opposite about 70 percent of the caseload may well be had the ability to make changes, they did not. In transferred. What does this minister have in the our first year of government we put more future for some 300 of his current employees? resources into emergency services in rural Manitoba than at any time over the past decade Mr. Sale: I think the member has a copy of the by members opposite. memorandum which was signed as well as the protocol. If he does not, I would be glad to Mr. Maguire: Then what assurance can the supply it to him. In that, there is a commitment Minister of Health give these rural Manitobans, on the part of all the parties, all the signatories, if he has provided all of these options and dollars to a labour force adjustment program which will to be put available to them, that they can be be fair to all involved. The decisions and treated in or near their homes in their home discussions in regard to that adjustment program communities when under his watch they have to have been underway for some time. I hope we travel this far to Winnipeg to get something as will reach a conclusion fairly shortly. simple as a severely cut thumb treated?

Health Care System Mr. Chomiak: As I said, I would appreciate if Service Availability-Rural Manitoba the member would forward the particulars so we can follow up on that with respect. I might add Mr. Larry Maguire (Arthur-Virden): On that one of the issues we are looking at that I November 16, Mr. Bill Russell of Melita indicated in Estimates to members opposite was suffered a severely cut thumb. The doctor in a central bed registry that was recommended I December 12, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 197 believe in 1994 to members opposite that would Mr. Chomiak: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We help co-ordinate in terms of activities. In have been working with local communities. addition, we are also going to be putting in place There have been some major expansions; there a call centre in Brandon that will co-ordinate will be some expansions in the future. I am very emergency services across the province of pleased to announce that two years ago on Manitoba, something that had not been done today's date there were 39 people in the before. Mr. Speaker- hallways, today there are none.

Mr. Speaker: Order. The honourable Member Livestock Stewardship Initiative for Turtle Mountain, on a point of order. Report Release

Point of Order Mr. Jack Penner (Emerson): A year ago this province had a flourishing construction industry Mr. Mervin Tweed (Turtle Mountain): Mr. in rural Manitoba. Last spring the Government Speaker, the question is very obvious. The announced the Livestock Stewardship Initiative patient needed a doctor, not an ambulance which has virtually brought the construction service, and the question was why was he by­ industry to a halt. The panel's final report was passed through Brandon to go to Winnipeg for a supposed to be released this fall. Could the service, to see a doctor. Minister of Conservation explain why the report has not been released, and who is responsible for Mr. Speaker: The honourable Minister of the delay? Health, on the same point of order. Hon. Oscar Lathlin (Minister of Mr. Chomiak: Mr. Speaker, as I indicated in Conservation): As far as I know, there is no my first, second and third responses, I would delay in the report to come forth. The report has appreciate the members providing particulars, been finished. It is under review. As soon as the because they have been so wrong on so many review is finished,we will announce our policies issues regarding this matter that I need the as to how we are going to implement the particulars in order to determine. recommendations contained therein.

Mr. Speaker: The honourable Official Mr. Jack Penner: Could the Minister of Opposition House Leader, on the same point of Conservation then tell us why the panel told order. rural Manitobans that they were supposed to have the report delivered to the minister by the * (14:00) end of October, and is this Government trying to influence the outcome of this report? Mr. Marcel Laurendeau (Opposition House Leader): On the same point of order, Mr. Mr. Lathlin: As far as I understand, the report Speaker, I do not believe the honourable has been delayed somewhat, but it is not due to minister was speaking to the point of order. I do anything that the Government has said or done. believe he was just completing his answer to the The Governmenthas not ordered the report to be question. delayed. In fact the panel has requested more time to work on the report, and then it will be Mr. Speaker: On the point of order raised by given to Government in due course. the honourable Member for Turtle Mountain, he does not have a point of order. It is a dispute Mr. Jack Penner: I would like to then ask the over the facts. Minister of Labour, in regard to the comments that she made in committee last year about *** instituting her labour regulations on farm labour and the farm industry, what kinds of discussions Mr. Speaker: The honourable Minister of has she had with the panel, and is she trying to Health, to conclude his comments. influence the panel's recommendations. 198 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 12, 2000

Bon. Becky Barrett (Minister of Labour): The Bon. Oscar Lathlin (Minister of information, as the Minister of Conservation has Conservation): As I have repeatedly told the said, will be forthcoming. It is important that the member in his previous questioning, yes, there panel do its work, do its work thoroughly, do its was a problem encountered in the project, a very work well, do its work properly and not be held minor problem, a problem that can be easily to a particular timeline if the panel itself is not fixed. I also advised the member, I believe ready. yesterday or the day before, that we are looking at the issue of whether it was as a result of a design deficiency or whatever it was. I have also When the information has come to the promised the member in previous questioning, Government, all departments, all parts of my responses to his previous questions, that if Government that are involved in this situation we find that there were some serious oversights and in this issue will review the panel's report on the part of the general contractor and the and recommendations, and information then will consultant, we will be taking appropriate action. be forthcoming. Does the member want us to do something in a hurry or not do something like Mr. Gerrard: All I ask the minister is to table they spent II years not doing it? We are the fu ll results of the testing so that the results addressing the issue. can be open and transparent and we can know for sure the extent of this problem that the Knapp Dam and Pump Station minister refers to. Information Tabling Request Mr. Lathlin: Mr. Speaker, I take this issue very Bon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): My seriously, and for that reason I have advised our question to the Minister of Conservation is a staff in The Pas that I will be touring the project fo llow-up to yesterday. The concrete for the this weekend when I am in The Pas because I Knapp Dam and Pump Station had rigorous want to get a first-hand look myself, know specifications, the equivalent of 5000 pounds per exactly what the problem is and how it is going square inch I believe, as well as thorough to be rectified to ensure that we have a structure testing, to ensure the concrete's ability to that is sound and safe. withstand wet conditions. Since there are rumours that some of the concrete tested may Mr. Gerrard: The minister's question leads us have fallen short of expectations and to wonder about the problem, whether it is minor specifications, I would ask the minister today- or severe. Would the minister tell us more about the problem so that the public can better Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. understand what the circumstances are?

Mr. Speaker: Order. It is very, very difficult to Mr. Lathlin: Mr. Speaker, I have already hear the question, and I would ask the co­ advised the member several times now that the operation of all honourable members. problem that was encountered was a very minor one, one that is being fixed, and that the Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. structure of the dam is not compromised. I do not know what else to tell him.

Mr. Speaker: Order. It is very difficult to hear Income Assistance the honourable member's question. I would ask Caseload Levels for the co-operation of all honourable members, please. Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows): Mr. Speaker, it is well known that under the previous Mr. Gerrard: I would ask the minister whether government and under the watch of the MLA for he will table in this House the full results of all River East (Mrs. Mitchelson), Manitoba had the the testing so that the public will know for sure highest level ever of social assistance cases, whether this dam meets the specifications that namely 46 652 cases in the fiscal year '93-94. I were laid out and whether it is safe. would like to ask- December 12, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 199

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Seven or eight, if not more, meetings were set up to have a meeting with the Minister of Mr. Speaker: Order. The honourable Member Conservation. Can he give us and this House and for Burrows, please put your question. more importantly the municipal officials a reasonable explanation of why he cancelled each Mr. Martindale: I would like to ask the and every one of them? Minister of Family Services what has happened to caseload levels since we took office and why. Hon. Oscar Lathlin (Minister of Conservation): thank the member for the * (14:10) question. I want to tell him that I take the issue of drainage challenges that we have in Manitoba Hon. Tim Sale (Minister of Family Services very seriously. I want to remind him that he was and Housing): Wei!, Mr. Speaker, I am pleased in office for 11 years and if he met with AMM to advise the member and the House that since people during those conferences, I am sure from we took office 3050 people on general assistance time to time they came to him outlining the have left caseload. That is a reduction of about problems they were having with regard to 30 percent in a 13-month period, actually a 12- drainage in their communities. But what month period. happened was the Budget was cut. There were staff positions that were cut. As a matter of fact, I think, in regard to the second part of his during Estimates last year the Member for question, it is a combination of a strong Lakeside advised me that I had a very difficult economy where there are job opportunities, and I job because his previous government had am pleased that under our Government our literally gutted the Department of Natural economy has actually strengthened its Resources. performance. I think that is wonderful. As well, we strengthened the job centre, which was begun Water Resources under the previous government, but we have Drainage Application Processing strengthened it, added staff. We have also created Building Independence which has Mr. Harry Enos (Lakeside): Mr. Speaker, allowed people to move into the workforce with specifically the R.M. of Rosser, along with the some supports. We have created the Career $25 that is now required just to send an Action Pathing Centre for 150 high-risk people application in, did so in May. In September they on long-term assistance. We have built training asked about it. The department lost it, were programs for mothers on social assistance so asked to reapply. This is now eight months later. they can become day-care providers. We are helping people to move across the bridges of Is that a reasonable performance on the part opportunity into our economy. of his depa�tment, of this Government?

Minister of Conservation Hon. Oscar Lathlin (Minister of Meeting Requests Conservation): Mr. Speaker, again, I advise the Member for Lakeside that I take my job Mr. Harry Enos (Lakeside): Mr. Speaker, we seriously and that the meetings that I have with are often told and hear from members opposite representatives from AMM are taken seriously. about what we did or did not do in the last 11 In fact, the other day I advised the Assembly that years. One of the things we did do, ministers of I have indeed gone out to the communities, that government, was take advantage of when toured the ditches that the member and his the municipal officials were gathered in former government had neglected for 11 years. convention, as they were just a little over a week ago, to make ourselves available to the concerns So I do not know where he gets the idea that that they might have. Understandably drainage am ignoring the people. Meetings are being was a No. 1 priority with municipal officials scheduled almost on a daily basis with throughout Manitoba. municipalities. 200 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 12, 2000

Mr. Enos: One final question, Mr. Speaker. Assiniboine River Advisory Committee Specifically, on behalf of the R.M. of Rosser Meeting Request whose cheque you cashed eight months ago, Mr. Speaker, they have yet to hear from this minister, from Mr. Glen Cummings (Ste. Rose): the Minister of Conservation has chosen to this department. When can they expect to hear ignore the work of the Assiniboine basin from him? advisory board. They have been trying to have meetings with him since he came into office. So Mr. Lathlin: Mr. Speaker, I would like to if he wants some advice on what he can do with advise the member again that I am doing my job the future of the river, why does he not want to to the best of my ability. I will not sit there meet with people like Professor Tim Ball and forever ignoring the pleas made by the members those of the capacity of a Dr. Ian Dickson? of the AMM. Hon. Oscar Lathlin (Minister of Conservation): Mr. Speaker, I should advise the When I was in Brokenhead two weeks ago, I member that yesterday I met with Doctor asked the people I was meeting with who their Dickson in my office, and we discussed the member of the Legislative Assembly was, and history of that particular board, how he got going they told me who he was. I asked them did you and all the valuable work that he had done. I ever lobby him, and they said every day. informed Doctor Dickson that I would continue to work with him and am very much interested in receiving the advice that he has to give. Water Resources Assiniboine River Assiniboine River Advisory Committee Report Recommendations Mr. Glen Cummings (Ste. Rose): Mr. Speaker, Mr. Glen Cummings (Ste. Rose): Mr. Speaker, the Assiniboine River is a major water course Mr. Dickson is available. The report is across the western side of this province and completed. When will he receive the report and across the southern part of the province as well. get on with it? As we speak, the demands for irrigation, the demands for drinking water, the demands for Hon. Oscar Lathlin (Minister of effluent management are all being increased on Conservation): Yes, they gave me a copy of the that river. report that was done last year, and we are reviewing it right now. I advised Doctor Dickson I would like to know what plans the Minister yesterday that, because the Assiniboine River of Conservation has for the future usage of the study had already been announced, initiated, he Assiniboine River. could probably serve in some useful capacity advising that particular group studying the Hon. Oscar Lathlin (Minister of Assiniboine River. Conservation): Mr. Speaker, yes, we have plans * (14:20) for the Assiniboine River. In fact, we have initiated a study that will look at the health of the Assiniboine River Advisory Committee Assiniboine River, look at what capacity it may Meeting Request have for the future. Mr. Leonard Derkach (Russell): The minister I might also add that when I met with the confuses us when he rises to give an answer to a Assiniboine River study board yesterday as a question because I am afraid he does not matter of fact, they informed me that the Clean understand what the real issues are here. The Environment Commission had recommended to Assiniboine Advisory Board was put into place the previous government when the diversion to advise users and to advise Government with discussions were being held that they do an regard to the water levels, with regard to water assessment on the Assiniboine River. Apparently safety, with regard to water availability on the this previous government did not listen to that Assiniboine River. Members of council, along board and so nothing was done. So now we are with the board, have asked repeatedly why the doing a study. minister does not meet with this board. December 12, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 201

I want to ask the minister what the status of of the foundation. Some of the people who led this board is and whether or not he will that fight include former Grand Chief Phil acknowledge to meet with them to receive their Fontaine, Norway House Chief Ron Evans, advice to assure Manitobans that the availability former MKO Grand Chief George Muswaggon of water on the Assiniboine River is safe and is and Freda Albert of the Norway House Women's adequate. Wellness Circle. As well, I commend the current Minister of Justice (Mr. Mackintosh) for Hon. Oscar Lathlin (Minister of bringing some justice to a landmark case that has Conservation): My plans are to meet again with so tarnished the reputation of this province. Doctor Dickson and some of his colleagues in Finally, all of us should commend the Minister the near future to discuss how they could fit into of Aboriginal and Northern Affairs (Mr. the study that was announced for the Assiniboine Robinson) who has never wavered and who has River. So futuremeetings are being planned. worked incredibly hard for attempting to establish a justice system that really does meet Mr. Speaker: The time for Oral Questions has the needs of Aboriginal people. As well, that expired. minister played a pivotal role in the healing journey of the Osborne family, and I thank him MEMBERS' STATEMENTS on behalf of all of us.

Helen Betty Osborne Foundation Fort Garry Mall Walking Program

Mr. Gerard Jennissen (Flin Flon): Last night I Mrs. Joy Smith (Fort Garry): I am pleased to was privileged to attend the committee meeting rise in the House today to commend the many regarding Bill 5, The Helen Betty Osborne volunteers who work so diligently in assisting Foundation Act. With this legislation, the current with the Fort Garry mall walking program. This Manitoba government, Mr. Speaker, has program was started to respond to a concern fo rmally acknowledged the miscarriage of among seniors about being housebound during justice in the Helen Betty Osborne case. Last the winter months. night Helen Betty's mother, Justine Osborne, and her sister Cecilia spoke eloquently to the The Fort Garry mall walking program committee of the wave of grief, pain and sorrow arranges for transportation between the that swept over the family after Helen Betty's participant's own place of residence and the St. murder. That tragic and senseless murder on Vital mall. By providing seniors with an November 13, 1971, shocked all of us as opportunity to get involved in the community all Canadians and as Manitobans. Now, nearly three year round, they are also able to regain their decades later, finally, there is a sense of justice independence and build and maintain valuable for the family. fr iendships. Helen Betty Osborne of Norway House had I would also like to take this opportunity to a dream. Her dream was to become a teacher. thank several individuals who have been That dream was shattered by a brutal abduction instrumental to the success of this program. Bill and murder characterized by sexism and racism. and B. J. Langden from King Transportation, as However, the foundation will now make it well as Flo Proulx have secured three buses for possible to expand Helen Betty's dream by the mall walk program. Jo-Ann Jeanson from the enabling many young Aboriginal people to St. Vital mall has been very helpful in keeping become teachers. All of us owe a great debt of everything organized once participants arrive. thanks to Judges Murray Sinclair and Alvin Other volunteers, such as Joan Stainer and Hamilton who, through the Aboriginal Justice Lillian Puhach have also donated much of their Inquiry report, spotlighted the flawed time to this worthy cause. investigation and court case after Helen Betty's murder. Finally, Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate everyone who has volunteered his Over the past five years, a concentrated or her time to the Fort Garry mall walk. I believe campaign for justice has led to the establishment that the success of this program should serve as 202 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 12, 2000 an example to all Manitoba communities of what like to thank Mike Gagnon and Bob Sharpe of a big difference we can make to improve the Hendon Apartments. I would like to thank Ken quality of life for the seniors in our Reimche from West Park Manor, Melba Allen neighbourhoods. from Eastern Star Chalet, Verdie Peters, the marketing representative for The Wellington. I St. James Senior Centre would like to thank Maichaela Ingleson from Columbus Courts, Larry Todd from Extendicare Mr. Jim Rondeau (Assiniboia): I rise today to Tuxedo Villa and Terry MacKay from the highlight some initiatives of the St. James Senior Canadian Order of Foresters, Haven No. 2. I Centre. This centre services seniors in the would also like to thank Heather Mutcheson, ridings of Assiniboia, St. James and Kirkfield Linda Macintosh and Krista Ruston fr om the Park. These constituencies have very high new Portsmouth Retirement Residence. concentrations of seniors, which is expected to increase over the next few years. I would also like to take this opportunity to thank all of the residents of the homes for I understand that the Winnipeg Regional coming out and having coffe e with me this Health Authority is currently undertaking a morning. We had some excellent and very needs assessment to integrate health promotion interesting conversations. Thank you very much. and prevention into the senior centre. As the centre is very well utilized in terms of social and Bethesda Foundation recreational activities, including the Tae K won Do with Jane, who I previously talked about, and Mr. Jim Penner (Steinbach): Mr. Speaker, it is an expanding collection of athletic machines and a pleasure to rise today to inform the House activities, I think this initiative will integrate about an organization in my constituency which well into the senior centre and its activities. is dedicated to the health and well-being of the residents of Manitoba. Another example of this initiative is the flu On September 21 of this year the Bethesda and pneumonia immunization shots offered in Foundation celebrated the 20th year of its 1999. In 1999, actually, 680 people took the establishment. The goal of the Bethesda shot. This year, well over I 000 people got Foundation at its inception was to raise a immunizations. Under the previous government quarter-million dollars over I 0 years, which the number was zero. It is using prevention would be the fo undation of an account from instead of acting afterthe fact. which 75 percent of the interest would be used to help fund capital purchases at Steinbach's Laurie Green, the primary health care nurse Bethesda Hospital and personal care home. on site, saw over 300 clients last month working on issues like blood pressure, diabetes and other * (14:30) health concerns. I would like to commend the regional health authority, St. James Senior Like many other initiatives in my Centre, the senior staff, who help do preventive constituency, Mr. Speaker, the initial goal was health care and prevention in a good community greatly surpassed and over the past 20 years the integrated philosophy fo r health care. Thank you fo undation has raised in excess of $2 million very much for a job well done. with approximately 90 percent of the interest generated being returned to the community and to the health district. Tuxedo Constituency Seniors Residences There have been a great many people who Mrs. Heather Stefanson (Tuxedo): Yesterday have contributed to the ongoing success and and today I had the opportunity to visit several development of the Bethesda Foundation, too seniors homes in my constituency, and there are many to mention in the time I am permitted, but a few people that I would like to thank for allow me to make special mention of Mr. P. J. welcoming me to visit their facilities. I would Reimer who was the first chairman of the December 12, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 203 foundation and former hospital administrator being put forward as we have in this Throne Peter Pauls. These gentlemen, along with other Speech, to welcome back many, many founders, have directly and indirectly touched Manitobans who had to leave to find employ­ the lives of thousands of residents in my area. ment elsewhere. Their vision has helped to provide comfort to many in their greatest hours of need. Of course, I Mr. Speaker, I am pleased and it certainly is must thank the many residents who sustained a pleasure indeed to be able to say that Manitoba and grew the foundation over the years through is vibrant and it is well once again and as their generous contributions. Without the Manitobans we should be extremely proud to generosity of the residents of the region, the welcome these Manitobans who had to leave the success of the foundation would not have been province for various reasons. We are pleased, possible. again I would say, to welcome them back with open arms. Mr. Speaker, I am sure all members of the Assembly join me when I offe r congratulations Manitoba has the best soil, the best water to the Bethesda Foundation on its 20th anywhere in North America, and yes, I might anniversary year and wish them many years of even say the best government as well in North continued success. America. What I would like to say is that with all of these advantages that we have in Manitoba there is no reason why we, as all Manitobans, ORDERS OF THE DAY cannot put our time and energy and all of our initiatives together to truly have one of the best THRONE SPEECH DEBATE provinces in all of this land. (Fifth Day of Debate) I know that in days to come, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Speaker: Adjourned debate on the we are going to be seeing a lot of those proposed motion of the honourable Member for initiatives that this Government plans on putting Dauphin-Roblin (Mr. Struthers) and the forward. I know that the Minister of Industry, proposed motion of the Honourable Leader of Trade and Mines (Ms. Mihychuk) has met with the Official Opposition (Mr. Murray) in numerous, numerous companies and different amendment thereto, standing in the name of the organizations that wished to come home and honourable Minister of Consumer and Corporate wished to come back to Manitoba and wished to Affairs (Mr. Lemieux), who has 13 minutes invest in Manitoba, because they realized the remaining. workforce that we have here and the climate for very, very successful businesses and companies Hon. Ron Lemieux (Minister of Consumer is welcoming them. and Corporate Affairs): It is a pleasure to continue my remarks with regard to the Throne Now, Mr. Speaker, certainly during the last Speech. I will attempt to be brief. I know there session there were a number of comments made are many other speakers who wish to have some by members opposite with regard to changes that input into the Throne Speech, and so I will try to we were making in legislation, but it does not summarize my remarks of yesterday and take much to look across the border eastward to conclude them within the next few minutes. Ontario to see that they are looking at a 60-hour workweek and really having a detrimental effect, I would just like to say one important I believe, not only on the workers of Ontario but remark that was made by many members in the certainly on many initiatives with regard to House is the large numbers of Manitobans, companies wanting to start there. young and old, that left this province over the last number of years. Certainly what we would Mr. Harry Schellenberg, Acting Sp eaker, in the like to do is welcome them back with open arms. Chair I really think that we are finding many, many companies and many more Manitobans who left We have one of the most stable workforces the province are seeing the initiatives that are in all of Canada, and we certainly have some of 204 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 12, 2000 the most hardworking Canadians anywhere in since we last sat in August, in particular the this country. I believe this is, to a degree, why Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs (Ms. our economy is booming and thriving. Friesen) and the Minister of Agriculture (Ms. Wowchuk), as well as the Member for Portage Ia I just want to comment, as I stated before, Prairie (Mr. Faurschou), and quite likely there just briefly to summarize my comments by have been others. Our family, too, suffered saying that the Throne Speech that was brought almost a year ago the loss of a loved one, and I forward once again shows balance. I think what know what difficulttimes it brings for them. So I Manitobans are looking for in their government just want to let them know that in these difficult is certainly not a governmentthat veers one way times and in their time of grieving that all or another because of the sign of dark clouds on members of the House are thinking of them and the horizon for whatever reason. They expect the praying for them and wishing them well. Government to be balanced, and they expect the Government to take a look at all options and be Mr. Acting Speaker, I would also like to consultative and certainly have that type of take this opportunity to congratulate and approach. I believe that this Government has, welcome our new pages. They serve a very and you will soon see through the initiatives that useful role in this Chamber, in particular seeing we are going to be putting forward-and many of that we have the odd sip of water at our desk the initiatives have been announced in the when we are speaking. It is a more important Throne Speech-that this will certainly come to role than that, but that is certainly one of the fr uition. very valuable services that we call upon the

pages fo r. I would like to congratulate them for · Now, I just want to say, in closing, that this being chosen and wish them well in their tenure Government does have a vision. The vision has here. I hope they find it to be an enjoyable and been put forward not only with the five educational experience. commitments we made in the last election, but we have carried that over through the Throne I would also like to take this opportunity to Speech of the first year of our mandate, and now congratulate and welcome new members to this with the number of different items that have Legislative Assembly, particularly the Member been listed within this Throne Speech, Mr. for Tuxedo (Mrs. Stefanson). We have the Acting Speaker, there truly is a vision there, a pleasure of sitting in the same row. I would also vision to make Manitoba more prosperous, a like to congratulate the new MLA for Kirkfield vision that is inclusive to include all Manitobans, Park, the new Leader of the Opposition party. It whether they be from Emerson, Manitoba, is encouraging fo r us in this House to see other Russell, Manitoba, Shoal Lake, Grand Rapids, citizens willing to stand up and to step fo rward Churchill, The Pas, Thompson. [interjection] and put their other lives on hold to serve the Including Brandon in that, as well, as the people of Manitoba in this capacity. I not only Member for Brandon East suggested. congratulate them fo r their win, I congratulate the other candidates who had the courage to We are going to be inclusive to make sure stand up and be recognized in the last two by­ that all Manitobans are going to benefit from the elections. wealth of this province. Mr. Acting Speaker, I am going to conclude my remarks on that. Thank Having come from a household where both you. of my parents ran unsuccessfully, I can assure yourself and the House that we were taught to Mr. John Loewen (Fort Whyte): Mr. Acting respect the process and not just congratulate the Speaker, prior to commencing my comments on winners. In that respect, I guess I should also the Throne Speech and the amendment, I would offer my congratulations to the New Democratic like to take this opportunity to offer my Party who although they may be saddened by the condolences. fact that they ended up in third place in both elections we should note that in at least one of I know there have been a number of those by-elections they were able to get their members in this House who have lost loved ones deposit back. Given the lack of leadership they December 12, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 205 those by-elections at least they were able to get followed up by ad hoc announcements. There their deposit back. were words to one effect, actions to the other effect. Unfortunately for Manitobans, when they * (14:40) elected this Government they elected a government that is more interested in managing I would now like to tum my attention to the spin, more interested in tomorrow's press release Throne Speech and to the amendment that has than they are in actually providing good been put fo rward. I must say as I sat here for the government to the citizens of this wond erful second time in my short tenure as an MLA province. listening to the Throne Speech, it was very difficult to remain silent. Out of respect though, That has been obvious from their very first I did. It was very difficult to sit still, so I found day of governing, from their very first Throne myself taking some rather copious notes, even Speech. When they started to talk about a deficit though I knew at the time that I would soon be and they used Deloitte and Touche, and they receiving a copy of the speech. It was very used them I think in the worst of possible ways frustrating to sit here and listen to a speech that I by maligning their name by claiming that they believe not only demonstrated to the people of had been hired to do an audit. If they look back Manitoba that this Government does not have a to their firstThrone Speech, I mean I just cannot vision from which to build on but in fact, even believe that in that Throne Speech they actually worse, they have no plan. declared that, and I quote: "The preliminary report of the independent audit into the It is one thing not to have a vision for where Province's finances," and at that time they knew they want to take the province but it is I think a full well, and in fact Deloitte and Touche stated real disservice to the people of Manitoba to publicly that they were never hired to conduct an come before this Legislature with a Throne audit. So here we have a government from day Speech that presents no plan, presents no ideas one that has been attempting to manage spin, for the people of Manitoba on what this attempting to create stories as opposed to Government intendsto do to improve their lot or governingfo r the people of Manitoba. to set a direction that in fa ct will carry this province forward for the next three years, not even to mention the fact that they talked about I would remind the members opposite that the year 2020, and just because they did does not that was followed shortly by a minister leaking a mean they have any idea on how they are going document. In fact, it might have been a few days to get there. earlier that the minister announced to her horror that there were over a hundred pieces of artwork Just for their edification, a vision can be missing from this building. Of course, when the defined and is defined as intelligent foresight. I actual homework was done, when the staff did must say in reading this Speech from the Throne their job and tracked down the pieces of art, that it is totally void of intelligent foresight. I there were fe wer than two. Did we receive an think that is a mistreatment of the people of apology from that minister? No. What we Manitoba. Afterreading it in more detail, I could received from that minister was very hollow in not help but be drawn back to the first Throne its nature and I think once again speaks of what Speech that this Government delivered a little this Government is all about. I think that is over a year ago. In retrospect the significant disappointing. features of the first Throne Speech were not what was in the Throne Speech but what was left When I read this Throne Speech I am out of the Throne Speech. Again that is what we overwhelmed by the fact that it is more notable have here in their second go-around. for what is not there than for what is there. I think that was magnified and has been magnified The original Throne Speech of this by the words of the various members opposite Government a year ago fell short on the same who have stood up diligently, as is required by issues. There was no vision, there was no plan. their party, to try and defend this document There was a bunch of proposals which would be which contains so little about hope and 206 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 12, 2000 opportunity fo r future generations of this choices on where they are going to build their province. careers, where they are going to build their future in this great country. This Finance What this Government should have been Minister (Mr. Selinger), single-handedly, has talking about in terms of their Throne Speech removed any incentive that these people would was a commitment to Manitoba to keep this . have to start building their careers in Manitoba. provmce competitive, competitive on all levels so that our best and our brightest would find re�ons to want to stay in this province, to make What this Finance Minister has done is he has ensured that any single individual who earns thetr homes here, to continue to build their $25,000 or more is paying more personal income careers here on opportunities. Instead, this tax on a provincial level as a result of his Budget Government in this Throne Speech lays out more than they would have had he done nothing-any misinformation for the people of Manitoba. This individual earning $25,000 or more. Now Government talks about cutting taxes. What this $25,000 is not very much money, in particular Government does is raise taxes. Again, the two whe? you look at the starting wage of people do not meet. commg out of university, people coming out of technical school, people who have invested �his Gov�rnment committed during its significantly in their own training. They are electt?n campatgn to continue through with the paying the highest income taxes in the country. promtse to reduce the corporate provincial tax rate f�om 48.5 percent to 47 percent. They *(14:50) c�mmttted to that. Instead of fo llowing through wtth that, their Minister of Finance (Mr. The Finance Minister (Mr. Selinger) Selinger) in his very first Budget chose to delink repeatedly has stated and he tries to defend his taxes. The reason he did that, I purport, is to Budget by telling us how he has increased the ensure that the revenue to the Province of child tax benefit, and to his credit, he has. That Manitoba was not affected by cuts in the fe deral in itself is a noble venture and if all else had tax regime. He made a conscious decision, based remained the same and he had left the income on delinking and based on setting the rates tax rates at 4 7 percent, I would be here today where he set them, not to pass the fu ll benefit of congratulating him instead of denouncing him. the federal tax reductions through to the people Because what he has done by setting his tax of Manitoba. At the same time, he had the nerve rates, what this Government has done, what the to stand in this House and outside this House and Minister of Finance has done is ensured that any pat himself on the back for cutting taxes when in !ndividual in any fam ily of four with a single fact-and we demonstrated this clearly in mcome earner that earns $60,000 or more is Estimates-this provincial Finance Minister going to pay over $300 more this year in actually raised taxes. provincial income tax than if this Finance Minister had done nothing. That is a significant To further that, in this Throne Speech there number, so in spite of his claim to have is absolutely no indication that this Government increased child benefits, that typical fam ily of is willing to fo llow in the footsteps of the fe deral fo ur with two children is paying more tax as a government who once again have announced result of his Budget. In fact, not only is a family that as of January 1 personal income tax rates for earning $60,000 paying more, any family with a all levels will decrease and there will be tax single income earner that has two children that relief for all citizens of this country. What do we earns$45,000 or more is paying more tax. have instead? Instead, we have from this Government a determination to keep the provincial income tax rates high, higher than Now that should be of significant interest to they would have been had he chosen not to all the members opposite, the backbenchers as delink and had he left the provincial tax rate at well as the ministers who are affected even more 47 percent, and what is the result? The result is than members who are not in Cabinet in terms of going to be fe lt by people all across this the amount of extra income tax, provincial province, particularly the young who are making income tax, that they will be paying this year as December 12, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 207 opposed to had the Finance Minister done million. I would ask the members opposite: Do nothing. the math. What that is going to translate into and what we will see by the end of the year is It is not only that he has raised taxes, it is the program expenditures that have risen by over direction that he is taking us in. So, instead of $600 million, which is roughly 10 percent of our talking in this Throne Speech about a budget. commitment to Manitobans to keep this province competitive, Mr. Acting Speaker, a commitment So in one year they have managed to to young Manitobans that they can build a career increase expenditures by 10 percent. I think this in this great province in Manitoba and not be Government ought to be ashamed fo r that. They penalized, he is saying exactly the opposite. He have built in program spending willy-nilly, is saying build your career here, and we are without a plan, without any fo resight. They going to make sure that you live in the highest simply wanted to dish it out as fast as it came in. tax regime in all of Canada. Well, that just does not work. Instead of offering the people of this province a reward fo r their hard work, instead of I have heard countless members opposite fo llowing sound economic principles which, as stand up and try and take credit for what is going anyone who has taken Economics 100, and I on in this province. We do have a strong would hope there are some members opposite economy. We have a very strong economy. The who have, would understand that in good times, reason we have a strong economy is because we in times of economic growth and times of had 11 years of consistent good governmentthat success, that is the time when Government managed its finances. We have lost that in one should be rewarding the hard work of its citizens fe ll swoop. So while this economy will not tum by reducing their taxes, by reducing the overnight, while the strength of the U.S. Government's dependence on their money economy and the discrepancy in the Canadian because, when the economy turns and the and the U.S. dollar are the primary drivers of this revenue tap starts to flow, this Government will economy, that will not last fo rever. have no option but to head back to the land of deficits, the land which they are very familiar We are starting to see a downturn in the U.S. with, because that is the land, and that is the time economy which will be felt by a multiplier effect fr om which they come. in Canada, and the result, I am afraid, will be bad news for Manitobans. Because when this I would encourage members opposite to, at economy turns, and it will tum because it always their next caucus meeting or at their next turns, the effect is going to be fe lt most severely Cabinet meeting, and judging by the questions in those jurisdictions which are the least we see from the House fr om their backbenchers­ competitive. What this Finance Minister has they may not have caucus meetings. I do not done in the last Throne Speech and what he has know. They do not seem to be able to get their assured in this Throne Speech is that Manitoba questions answered there, so they have to bring will be one of the least competitive jurisdictions them here and misuse the time of the House fo r in all of North America. I think that is a sad state that. But perhaps, during one of those caucus of affairs fo r the province and for the people that meetings or one of those Cabinet meetings, they live in this great province. could talk to their colleagues and figure out if their Minister of Finance (Mr. Selinger), if their It was with interest that I looked at the first Premier (Mr. Doer), and if their Cabinet quarter results that were published by this colleagues actually understand the economics of Government going through until June 2000 and this province and actually have a plan to keep interested in a disappointed way because I this province competitive. If they do, maybe they noticed then that in the first quarter of this year canencourage them to share it with the citizens this Government has increased operating of this province and to be willing to take expenses to the tune of $153.7 million. That is in feedback from the citizens of this province in the three months; compared to the first three months hope, over the course of the next two or three of 1999, operating expenses have gone up $153 years, they can get it right. 208 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 12, 2000

I would like to remind this Government that * (15:00) they were not put in office, nowhere do they have a mandate from the people of Manitoba, to What happens when one examines the spend all the money they can get their hands on. figures of the Manitoba Public Insurance They found that out very, very clearly in their Corporation, the very corporation that this dealing with the province's Crown corporations. Governmentjust got its hands slapped fo r trying They did it well. Quite frankly, the Member fo r to dip into? When you look at the record there Assiniboia (Mr. Rondeau), the Member for between 1981 and 1988, that corporation cost Dauphin-Roblin (Mr. Struthers) want to talk to the people of Manitoba close to $70 million in me about Crown corporations. losses thanks to the financial mismanagement of the New Democratic Party. When you look at it Well, here are some facts that they should be under the governance of the Conservative Party aware of. Maybe they should work this in what do you see? You see a corporation that was because, if they looked at the facts, if they did turned around. You see a corporation whose net the numbers, they would understand what sound earnings over that period were $87 million. Once management of a Crown corporation is, in again, you have a difference of over $150 particular the Member fo r Dauphin-Roblin, million. when his address to move the Throne Speech went on rather at length about Crown That is the way Conservative governments corporations and the difference in vision that the manage the assets the people of Manitoba trust old New Democrats across the way have from them with. They are not like this New the Progressive Conservative Party in terms of Democratic Party who thinks that any Crown dealing with Crown corporations. corporation is there simply fo r the convenience of their Government, to dip into and to strip a There are very, very significant differences. Crown corporation of half of its equity, half of The biggest difference, and the biggest its equity, at their will, just because they have difference that has been shown to the people of instilled a chairwoman who has ties to one of the Manitoba, is that the Conservative government universities and that is where they want to has the will, has the strength of character to see instruct her to make a donation. that Crown corporations are run on a sound basis, on a sound footing. One only has to look at the financial results of Manitoba Hydro. Even when they are caught, do they come Manitoba Hydro, in the years 1981 to 1989, fo rward and say, well, gee, we made a mistake. when you combine all those years under the Maybe we should not have done that, maybe we governance of the NDP, the total income fo r all should have consulted with the ratepayers before of those I 0 years was just over $50 million. In we just reached into the assets of the Crown that time, they included years when they lost $26 corporation and decided to give them away. million, they lost $18 million, they lost $24 They try and spin the issue. They say, oh, no, no, million, they lost $16 million. it was not us. That is just something that the board decided to do and they did not tell us. This is money that the people of Manitoba Then all of a sudden, lo and behold, what do you have invested. This Government, through its know, the senior officer of the organization has mismanagement of Crown corporations takes no to stand up and say hold it, government came to responsibility and just throws it away. When you us, asked us if we could do it. We looked at it compare it to the sound management that the under the instruction of our board and told them Conservative government brought to Crown if that is what they wanted us to do that in fact corporations, when you look at the profits of we could do it and we could survive. Manitoba Hydro for the same period of time in the 1990s, the profit fo r Manitoba was $573 We could not provide Manitobans with our million. That is what the people of Manitoba mandate, which is to provide the lowest cost benefited from. They benefited from a insurance, but we could provide this government government that oversaw the sound fiscal with $30 million to dump into their general management of its Crown corporations. revenue and use in that. December 12, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 209

So, yes, there is a difference in philosophy growth. It does not talk about competitiveness. between this side of the House and that side of You cannot have one without the other. the House when it comes to managing Crown corporations and managing government This Throne Speech talks about sustainable spending. If you ask the people of Manitoba, development. On the same hand, the Minister of they will tell you clearly that their preference is Conservation (Mr. Lathlin), instead of living up fo r sound fiscal management of all of their to the laws of sustainable development, breaks assets, not only the tax dollars that they the laws, breaks the laws regularly. We saw that contribute to help this Government do the jobs in the last sitting of this House. He did not live that are necessary, but also in the management of up to The Sustainable Development Act, and he their Crown corporations. single-handedly eliminated the Manitoba Environment Council. So how do we talk about No mention in the Throne Speech of tax sustainable development, about sustainable competitiveness, no mention of sound fiscal economic growth when this Government is management. This Governmenthas continued to playing fast and loose with the laws, and just carry on its old tradition of spending every because it is inconvenient to them, they will penny that they can get their hands on. decide to dismiss any watchdog agency that has been set up to hold them accountable and any other agency that decides not to terminate, they I will concede to the members opposite, to just say, well, hey, we are not going to bother the Government, that there are some worthwhile meeting with them? We do not have to listen to proposals in this Throne Speech. There are some them. things that are worth doing. There is no doubt about that. But again the difference in Mr. Acting Speaker, the lack of attention to philosophy is how we approach those things. As fo llowing up the words in the Throne Speech we have seen fr om this Government in their with action I believe is absolutely deplorable. Budget and what I am fe arful of and what the people of Manitoba should be very cautious Another contradiction in this Throne Speech about is the fact that the members opposite, the is this Government's attempt to take credit for members in Cabinet and the members in the everything good that has happened in this back bench, actually believe that the way to help province in the last 10 or 11 years. You know, I people is to create more bureaucracy, to create mean the Minister of Health (Mr. Chomiak), the more agencies which duplicate services, to Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs create more bureaucratic jobs in an effort to try (Mr. Lemieux), I was a little afraid they were and help the people. going to hurt their arms as they desperately tried to pat themselves on the back fo r initiatives that Well, I would suggest to this Government had started well before their time in office, and to the ministers that what they should be initiatives that were undertaken when they were doing is fo cussing their efforts on getting things in Opposition and when they were taking on done, fo cussing their effo rts on setting their their role of complainers, for which they are so priorities, on developing plans that will help well-suited. them move those priorities along, and by actually getting out there and doing something. I think nothing demonstrates this more than That is a far cry from what I see in this Throne two particular areas in this Throne Speech, one, Speech. which was not identified, which is health care. The Minister of Health admitted, and he has I think again there are so many ways that admitted over the course of the last year, that that is demonstrated, where the inaction of this when he inherited the portfolio, 85 percent of Government does not live up to the words that what was happening was right and things were we see in this Throne Speech or the words that moving in the right direction, but in this House, we have seen in the last Throne Speech. This will this minister admit that? No. He will stand Throne Speech contradicts itself in many, many up and try and preserve the myth that programs ways. The Throne Speech talks about sustainable had been underfunded and not been tackled 210 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 12, 2000 when in fact he knows full well that this tried to introduce on their own. I do not think Government's decision to expand the long-term there is any doubt about that. care homes in the province of Manitoba has had more to do with relieving some of the stress on * (15:10) the hospitals in this province than anything this Government has done or not done in the last 14 This Throne Speech talks about e­ months. commerce, talks about a bill that this House passed, that this government presented, and that, Mr. Acting Speaker, is a fallacy in members' Again, this Throne Speech talks about opposite thinking. They think that by introducing access to capital and how important that is. It is a bill, a bill that really does not do much at the important, but what does this Government trot end of the day in this Legislature, that they have out to the public in terms of access to capital? made some giant leaps forward, some giant They trot out programs that had been in place for strides in terms of helping the economic three or four years. They trot out Keystone situation in Manitoba. Well, this Government is Technologies, which is a wonderfu l program. I way behind the ball when it comes to that. would only remind this Government that a year before I became an MLA, I was looking at You do not drive e-commerce by passing a investing in Keystone Technologies. Now the bill in this Legislature. You drive e-commerce last I heard this Government was not in place to by setting an environment, by creating a tax start Keystone Technologies, but boy, do they structure, by setting up incentives that make want to take the credit now. The same thing with people want to start and build their businesses Kraus Industries. here. [interjection} The Member for Dauphin­ Roblin (Mr. Struthers) says and, and, and. If the An Honourable Member: Who put the money Member for Dauphin-Roblin had any solutions in? to this, I hope he would have identified them in his speech in moving the Throne Speech. He Mr. Loewen: Well, the Minister of Industry and does not, so I will give him a clue, and maybe he Mines wants to tell us who put the money in. can take this-well, he cannot take it to the Well, the minister signed a paper on a program Cabinet table, but if the caucus ever meets, that was so far down the road that she had no maybe he will be able to take it there. Maybe choice anyway, and you know what? She could one day he will be able to take it to the Cabinet have cancelled it. She could have cancelled it, I table, I do not know. Hopefully, for his sake he guess, but the money was budgeted. The money will. I do not know if I would hope for the was already in the program. She just fo llowed people of Manitoba that he will, but, anyway, through with an initiative. So if she wants to hopefullyone day he will, for his sake. stand up in this House and take credit for fo llowing through with an initiative that was What business needs in Manitoba is hope, started by the previous government, that is all opportunity and a contract. So if this fair. Governmentwants to look at ways of promoting e-commerce in Manitoba, they should look to That is all fair and well, but for this their own departments. They should look to their Government to try and stand up and take credit own staff. They should look around this for program after program after program which province and find businesses, find business was initiated under the previous government, I people who have the strength and the vision to think the people of Manitoba will see through set up their own shop, and look for opportunities that and will come to understand quite clearly in when they can give a contract to a Manitoba the next election that, in fact, the programs that business, because if we are going to build have been successful are the programs that were Manitoba, if we are going to continue to build on initiated by the Conservative government, this strong economy, we are going to need more fo llowed through by the NDP government, and businesses. We are going to need more home­ the programs that are unsuccessful are going to grown businesses that are given an opportunity prove to be the ones that this Government has to succeed. December 12, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 211

It is risky. It is not always the safe way. It is We sit here in this House and we talk not always the easy way. Sometimes it requires a amongst each other and we debate issues. What leap of faith to give a contract to a new start-up sometimes we miss is the feedback from the company, but that is what business thrives on. outside world. I can assure that members Business does not thrive on legislation being opposite, the Cabinet members and the r passed. Legislation in this House virtually 99 backbenchers-[inte jection] The businesses in percent of the time only hurts business. It does Toronto, businesses in Alberta, businesses across not help business. We saw that in spades in Bill this country were looking at opportunities in 44. Does this Government, do these members Manitoba. When Bill 44 was passed they actually think they helped the economy of the stopped looking. They said why would we go to province of Manitoba with their introduction Manitoba with regressive labour laws. There through the back door of Bill 44? Well, the may be the odd one that would come because of answer is no. our electrical advantage, but by and large the vast majority of businesses will fly over. They An Honourable Member: You do not want any will not look at Manitoba whatsoever, and that is government? what their Government has done.

Mr. Loewen: Well, quite frankly, no I am coming close to the end of my government would be a lot better than the comments on this bill because quite fr ankly there Government we are getting. But I would is not much in it to comment on. There is no encourage this Government and the members hope. There is no vision. This is a government opposite to do what they can do around their that for years and years complained about caucus, around their Cabinet table, to ensure that inactivity in the inner-city, about the fact that the those entrepreneurs in this province that have the inner-city was crumbling. They were not far strength and have the brains and have the wrong in terms of what was actually going on determination to start business in this province there, but where they are way off is their are rewarded as much as possible by the solution. It is obvious fr om this Throne Speech Government of Manitoba. {interjection] You that they have no solutions fo r the inner city. know what? The member for Flin Flon (Mr. This is a Throne Speech that talks about fair Jennissen) wants to tell me that I should be more treatment on the one hand and then goes on to concerned about the working people than about expand that by simply talking about the North. business people. No talk about the fair treatment of the people in southeast Manitoba, no talk about the treatment of the farmers in southwest Manitoba, both Well, I can assure the members opposite that struck by natural disasters, completely ignored. by being concerned about the economy, by being concerned about the success and the ability for Quite fr ankly there is no substance in this business to grow and thrive in this province, that speech, but there is one area that I have hope fo r, that is doing more for the working people in this and this is again a matter that affects me province than any bill, and, in particular, what personally. I am looking forward. I hope that this that very damaging Bill 44 has done fo r the Government on one hand advances with its working people of Manitoba. promised white paper on mental health. It is something that is badly needed in this province. That bill that took away their right to vote, There are services that are out of line. There are that took away their right to settle and that took people who need assistance and this Government away the atmosphere that had been created over needs to step up to the plate and act. I would the last 11 years that Manitoba was open for hope that they do. I would hope they would act a business, one piece of legislation. That took that lot quicker on that than they would on trying to away from all of those groups, and this erect five new casinos in this province. I would Government should be embarrassed about it, hope they would go there. they should be ashamed about it and they should repeal it as quickly as possible, before they do In closing, I am very disappointed in this irreparable harm. Throne Speech. I am very disappointed in what 212 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 12, 2000 is not said and I would urge all members of this They were left to deal with the fiscal shortfalls Government to do what they can do to actually that were fo rthcoming from ill-considered try and get things moving, to try and create decisions made by the members opposite during something that is going to help people in the their decade in power. I think the trustees have inner-city, to actually create some hope and to be acknowledged here fo r the work, fo r the opportunity, but most of all to ensure that the very hard work that they have done to maintain a economic situation in Manitoba is competitive public education system in the face of what so that this province can continue to move amounted to a decade of historic cuts into the ahead. Thank you. public education system.

Bon. Drew Caldwell (Minister of Education Also, Mr. Acting Speaker, I wanted to thank and Training): I would like to thank my the parents who have children in the public colleagues for the enthusiastic applause as I rise school system fo r the tremendous insight and to speak. It is a pleasure to be in the House today tremendous commitment that they make to to share some of my thoughts as the Member fo r having a system of public education in this Brandon East and as the Minister of Education province that is worthy of their children. for the Doer government on the Speech from the Teachers, trustees, parents and students together Throne which was read in this Chamber last make up what is the public school system in the week. province of Manitoba. Together they deserve the gratitude of this Chamber fo r ensuring that the I think my reflections on the Throne Speech system is the best it can be. should begin with a sincere thanks to the educators of the province of Manitoba fo r the The Throne Speech that we are speaking extraordinarily good work that they do, day in here to today had a number of important and day out, in providing fo r the education of considerations and important comments to make young Manitobans. I think all too often the role about the public and post-secondary education of teachers and the hard work that teachers system in the province of Manitoba. The past undertake on behalf of young Manitobans has decade, as I mentioned earlier, saw tremendous been overlooked in the recent historical past in cuts made to the public school system. They also this province. We on this side of the House saw tremendous cuts, tremendous offloading recognize teachers as the dedicated hardworking made in the post-secondary system to the extent professionals that they are. that as we sit here to debate the second Throne Speech there is a quarter-of-a-billion-dollar I should also give thanks at the outset to the capital deficit existing in the public school trustees throughout the province of Manitoba system. It is windows, rooves, heating systems, who guide and direct the public education mechanical systems, deferred maintenance, a system as elected representatives of their local quarter of a billion dollars that was left to lie jurisdictions. They certainly have risen to the unattended by the members opposite. challenge facing them as trustees in this province. Manitobans well know the public In the post-secondary system we are also education system over the last decade has seen confronted with a quarter-of-a-million-dollar tremendous cuts, has seen tremendous fiscal capital deficit from unattended-to capital needs, challenges, has seen for the local ratepayers, of whether it is the Engineering building at the course, year after year after year of cutbacks University of Manitoba or the architectural implemented by the previous government building at the University of Manitoba, Wesley resulting in extraordinarily high levels of Hall at the University of Winnipeg, a downtown property taxation, indeed an explosion in local campus fo r Red River that was much mooted by property taxation over the last decade. the members opposite which had no dollars attached to it when I assumed the office of the *(15:20) Minister of Education.

Trustees have often been left to carry that Mr. Acting Speaker, my own home bag on behalf of the previous administration. community, the Keystone Centre is an economic December 12, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 213 engine for this province, an economic engine fo r in that particular portfolio, all incidentally at agriculture in this province. I know something tremendous cost to the taxpayers of the province that members opposite like to talk about, their of Manitoba. connection with rural Manitoba and their connection to agriculture in this province and We believe on this side of the House in their success, their commitment to agriculture in putting the resources in education into the this province, but like the huge capital hole that classrooms of the province of Manitoba and not exists in the post-secondary system and in the into salaries fo r senior administration. Of course, public school system from a lack of caring, there is a place fo r administration. The frankly, fo r the infrastructure needs of the school department and the staff of the department work system, just so it has occurred in the public very, very hard and very diligently and very school system and the post-secondary system in professionally to provide for education in the terms of deferred maintenance, maintenance that province of Manitoba. That is something that I was neglected fo r so many years, not funded, not am very proud of, but I am also very proud of supported by members opposite when they were the determination and the professionalism of the in government. department in reorganizing to become a stronger, leaner, more efficient, more businesslike unit, The Keystone Centre in Brandon, the jewel which is certainly something that it was not of agriculture in this province, is confronting a under the members opposite. multimillion-dollar issue around capital infrastructure, an ice plant that is 25 years of Mr. Acting Speaker, the Speech from the age, many years past its replacement date, a roof Throne speaks broadly about our commitment to that has problems of leakage, Mr. Acting education, our commitment to renewing hope in Speaker, major problems with the quality of air young people in the Province of Manitoba, our flow and mechanical system in the Keystone commitment to fo cussing resources on youth in Centre, so right across the spectrum, whether it the Province of Manitoba. I know that, again, is public schools, whether it is universities, members opposite like talking about cost and community college, agricultural centres, expenditures and what the cost of specific areas hospitals, health centres, the members opposite are. On this side of the House, we see education left the people of Manitoba an enormous capital as an investment. We do not see the cost of deficit, an enormous capital deficit in the educating young people in Manitoba in the same infrastructure in this province. I think that is a sense that members opposite see a cost. We see shameful thing, something that this Government it as an opportunity for that young person to is very dedicated and determined to overcome grow, to succeed in his or her future endeavours, during our mandate in office. and it is an investment in the young people of our province, not a cost to somehow be tabulated Mr. Acting Speaker, the Throne Speech against a balance sheet. speaks, as I mentioned, very broadly on educational issues. I think I will take some time Mr. Acting Speaker, in the public school to review the commitments to education that this side, I am very, very pleased that this Governmentis pledged to uphold. We are proud, Government, right fr om the beginning of our and I am personally proud as Minister of mandate, have begun to address a number of Education and proud of my department, which is serious issues in the public school system. In the much more streamlined, incidentally. We have first two weeks of office, we made brought business principles into the Department announcements on the commercialization of our of Education. We went from a very bloated classrooms with the implementation of the senior bureaucracy with multiple deputies and Youth News Network that was allowed to assistant deputies. I know that the members proceed under the former administration, the opposite like talking about the business a lot and dedication of curriculum time to the watching of like talking about efficient use of resources. television and the watching of commercial Well, in my office, we were bumping into messages by the captive, passive audience of deputy ministers and assistant deputy ministers school children in our province during everywhere you turned the first week that I was curriculum time, an appalling reality which was 214 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 12, 2000 allowed to proceed and in fact encouraged, if we The tying of the public school funding take to heart some of the members opposite's support levels to the rate of economic growth in remarks during previous discussions in this the province of Manitoba I think is a very Chamber, the encouragement of the commercial­ innovative, a very progressive step that was ization of the classrooms of the province of made by this Government. It is unique in Manitoba, the selling of young Manitobans' Canada. It provides school administrators with a minds to the highest bidder, something that we sense of stability and security as they develop on this side of the House fe lt to be quite their business plans for the existing academic deplorable and quite shameful, frankly, an year and academic years to come. abrogation of the responsibility of the legislators of this province to the young people in our It was a very fr ustrating endeavour over the province, to the youth of our province, an past I0 years for any school business official in absolute abrogation of responsibility to the any region of the province of Manitoba to try to integrity of the public school system in our plan year in and year out, because there was no province. consistency in fu nding announcements, if we are We made an announcement on YNN within to speak of a business plan in any long-term the first two weeks of being in office that we sense, which is quite astounding to me, given would halt the further incursion of this that the members opposite often like to talk commercial enterprise into our classrooms. I am about their business acumen and their pleased that that commitment has been considerable skills in terms of business planning maintained. It was a promise that was made and and so fo rth. Certainly there was no business it is a promise kept, something that this plan in the Department of Education and Government fe els is very important in terms of Training for long-term stability in the system. In the expectations of Manitobans for this fact, what we had was a reality of year after year Government. This Government is committed, of cuts, real cuts, in support to the public school has made commitments to the people of system, peppered sporadically with moderate Manitoba and intends on fulfilling those increases in support, usually coinciding with commitments throughout our mandate. upcoming elections or the political caprices of the moment. * (15:30) The trend throughout the last 10 years was a We also made an announcement quite constant decline in the level of provincial quickly with regard to the tying of funding support to the public education system and a support to the public education system in our constant increase in the level of local property province to economic growth in our province. taxation borne by Manitobans at the local level, Last year we made the single largest due entirely to the provincial cuts that came announcement, increasing funds to the public repeatedly year after year from members school system in the province of Manitoba in opposite. [i nterjection} Tory downloading, my over a decade. I am very, very proud of the fact colleague from Brandon-West adds, Mr. Acting that this Government is investing in the public Speaker. That is exactly what it was. school system at historic levels. The Throne Speech talks of that investment, speaks to that investment, and that investment will continue We hear a lot of rhetoric from members throughout the mandate of this Government. We opposite, and we just heard a lot of rhetoric from on this side of the House see education as an the member from Whyte Ridge on the issue of investment in justice, social justice, an invest­ taxation. Well, the member should be aware, no ment in healthy communities, an investment in doubt is aware, no doubt wishes to obfuscate and economic development, but most importantly obscure the fact that the members opposite this is an investment in Manitobans and in the presided over the single largest era of property future of Manitoba, and it is an investment that taxation in the province of Manitoba's history. this Government continues to maintain and The explosion of local property taxation that enhance in future years. took place under the watch of members opposite December 12, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 215 is really quite astonishing and frankly quite College, a $20-million commitment to the other appalling. three universities that are in our province, the largest single capital announcement in the The investment this Government is making province of Manitoba's history. Even at that, it in the public education system is most laudable. does not address the entire capital deficit the It speaks to the desire of this Government to members opposite left this Government when have education, Mr. Acting Speaker at the they left office 14 months ago. forefront of our policies around social justice, around healthy communities, around economic On the post-secondary side, our investment development. It speaks to the idealism on this extends to enhancing, in fact, reintroducing a side of the House in terms of giving young bursary program fo r the province of Manitoba Manitobans hope for their future in terms of after more than half a decade of no bursaries providing enhanced accessibility to the public being made available to students. Mr. Acting school system and adds resources to the public Speaker, this Government on this side of the school system, investing in capital resources in House implemented a 10% tuition reduction this the public system and, in essence, turning around year fo r all post-secondary institutions in the a system which had been open to ridicule by province of Manitoba, something that no other members opposite and had been open to jurisdiction in Canada has ever undertaken. denigration. The teaching profession underwent a considerable amount of denigration by An Honourable Member: It is an historic members opposite during their term in office. vision.

Mr. Acting Speaker, we on this side of the Mr. Caldwell: It is an historic vision, Mr. House support and are proud to support teachers, Acting Speaker, again, my colleague fr om trustees, parents and students, all of whom Brandon West sta tes and adds with me that it is together with us are seeking to restore a sense of an historic vision, and indeed it is. This idealism and a sense of educational excellence to Government believes in supporting the hopes of the public school system in our province. young Manitobans, in supporting the hopes of young people in this province in having a quality On the post-secondary side of the equation, I education system and providing an affordable mentioned to members that we were left with a post-secondary education system, enhancing quarter-of-a-billion-dollar capital deficit in the access to the post-secondary system in the post-secondary system, whether we are talking province of Manitoba for all Manitobans, not about the Engineering building at the University only those wealthy enough to be able to afford of Manitoba, Wesley Hall at the University of the $50,000 debt load that students typically Winnipeg, the Student Union centre at the have been undertaking to complete a university College Universitaire de Saint Boniface, the degree in this province over the last number of downtown campus at the Red River Community years. We are very proud of putting substantive College, which I mentioned earlier was much resources into tuition policy and bursary policy mooted by members opposite without a dollar in the province of Manitoba over the last 14 attached to it, which is quite a convenient thing months. to be announcing during election campaigns, not having to have any commitment to actually In fact, Mr. Acting Speaker, indeed the resourcing or having monies allocated for a investment that this Government has made in project such as the Red River campus project young Manitobans through its bursary and downtown. tuition policy has resulted in increased enrolment figures, dramatically increased Mr. Acting Speaker, this Government, a enrolment figures across the province. Coupled month and a half ago, six weeks ago, made the with the growing economy and low joblessness largest series of capital announcements for post­ rates, this increased enrollment is unprecedented, secondary education in the province of and it is a testament to the commitment of my Manitoba's history: $50 million to the University colleagues in caucus and Cabinet to investing in of Manitoba; 31.5 to Red River Community education, and I thank them very much for that. I 216 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 12, 2000 thank Manitobans for the opportunity, in fact, to post-secondary system in this province implement policies that provide for quality post­ generally. secondary education in the province. Levels of operating support, as well, have been enhanced So, Mr. Acting Speaker, the Throne Speech across the post-secondary system. talks of restoring hope for young people through opportunities in education. Our record also So on every indicator at every level, this speaks to that. In fa ct, our record confirms that Government is investing in young people; it is this Government is interested in providing hope investing in teachers; it is investing in schools; it through new opportunities for Manitoba's young is investing in universities; it is investing in people. I have outlined some of the solid community colleges. This Government is a commitments and solid progress that has been government that believes in strongly supporting made in this past year, and there will be more to and investing significantly in enhanced come in future throne speeches and future education and educational excellence in the budgets. We have been working very, very province of Manitoba, and I am very, very proud assiduously in government to ensure that we to sit on this side of the House with members address the grave needs of Manitobans when it who share a vision for Manitoba that extends comes to education, post-secondary and public. beyond one's pocketbook, I suppose, if I could That record will continue. say that, although the pocketbook that members opposite speak of generally speaks to the top 5 The Throne Speech talks about thinking percent of society and leaves the rest to fe nd for ahead to the year 2020, Mr. Acting Speaker. In themselves. We on this side of the House believe 2020, the Manitoba child born today will be in equality of opportunity. We believe in preparing to enter a workforce and to assume investing in education. We believe in providing fu ll responsibilities of citizenship. What are the for social justice, for economic development, for legacies that we wish to establish for the healthy communities and for a balanced children who will come of age in 2020? In last approach to taxation, a balanced approach to year's Budget and in this Throne Speech, this economic development. Government has spoken to and acted on the legacy that we hope to provide fo r children born * (15:40) today in the year 2020. That involves significant investment in education, significant investment You know, Mr. Acting Speaker, it sticks in in health care, a balanced approach to the fiscal my craw whenever I hear members opposite talk realities that confront our province and other about taxation and their concern for taxation, provinces, a balanced approach to taxation. because on a daily basis I look at the correlation between the tremendous and dramatic offloading We are committed on this side of the House of responsibility for the fu nding of our public to the goal of lifelong learning. We see lifelong school system and the explosion in local learning as one of the most important legacies property taxation that took place throughout this that we can create fo r our children. Successive province over the last decade, directly correlated learning is an indispensable ingredient for to taxation decisions made by the members success in the future for the new economy, as opposite. my colleague the Minister oflndustry, Trade and Mines (Ms. Mihychuk) reminds me on an almost Our record on this matter, Mr. Acting daily level as we sit beside each other in the Speaker, is very clear to the public today and House. She does not miss an opportunity to will be very clear to the public as we move remind me of the new economy and the fo rward throughout our mandate, and I will importance of education in taking advantage of never have a hesitation in comparing the record the opportunities presented by the new economy. on education, on property taxation, on balance, on hope of this Government with the record of This first year for this Government was a the members opposite when it comes to taxation, crucial one for this new government, a crucial investment in education, in fact maintaining the one in setting the spirit that will guide this integrity of the public school system and the Government throughout its mandate. With the December 12, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 217 steps taken in this first year, with the indications province of Manitoba in the infrastructure that for the future provided for in this Throne was so sadly neglected over the past decade. Speech, Manitobans can be assured that the Doer government is the education government of this This year a crucial first step was taken in province. We will be known as the education terms of beginning to address the massive government of this province. [interjection] I infrastructure deficit atour university system. As thank my colleagues for again applauding those I said six weeks ago, the largest series of remarks because I think the legacy of the Doer announcements for capital infrastructure government will be renewed hope for youth in investment was made at the University of this province and it will be a focus on Manitoba: $50 million to the University of educational investment, and that indeed is a Manitoba, $3 1.5 million made for Red River legacy that speaks to years and decades to come College, $20 million for the other universities in and for the future prosperity of this province as a our post-secondary system, Mr. Acting Speaker, whole. the largest such investment in the province of Manitoba's history, and this Government is very, mentioned earlier that when this very proud of that fact. Government came into office it faced a massive infrastructure deficit in our colleges and We promised in the election school and universities, a quarter of a billion dollars. I made university funding increases this year reflected reference to the fact that in my home with growth in the economy, and we have constituency of Brandon East, the Keystone fulfilled that commitment. We promised a new Centre, the jewel of agriculture in this province college expansion fund to increase post­ in terms of exhibitions, in terms of a home for secondary options throughout the province and the community, of farmers and agriculture have begun that endeavour this year with the producers that live in this province, the Keystone highest rate of enrolment increases in the better Centre, is confronting the same sort of neglect part of a decade. As promised, students in now that was brought upon our colleges and Manitoba colleges and universities saw their post-secondary institutions, universities and tuition costs reduced by I 0 percent this year. In colleges in the province, the same sort of neglect addition, over 5700 young Manitobans will that was borne and brought upon our public receive financial support through new federal school system, the same sort of neglect that was and provincial bursary programs. This is a borne upon our public health system. We will record of accomplishment in education, talk about another piece of infrastructure in my something that we on this side of the House are home constituency that was completely very, very proud of. neglected. [interjection} The most dramatic increases, I think, will be My colleague the Minister of Industry, made in the areas of education and health care. Trade (Ms. Mihychuk) talks about the open-air Enrollment in the health care professions this concept in classrooms. Believe me, in some of past year saw 446 more nursing students our classrooms in the province of Manitoba enrolled in Manitoba, a Bachelor of Education indeed it is an open-air concept where you have program that has been expanded and the re­ roofs leaking and windows gone without establishment of the Nursing Diploma program. maintenance. So, the maintenance, the public school system, the post-secondary system, the Mr . Conrad Santos, Deputy Sp eaker, in the Keystone Centre in Brandon, the Brandon Chair Regional Health Centre which was first announced almost 10 years ago and in * (15:50) successive election campaigns, pledged by the members opposite to build a health centre in Computer science programs, Mr. Deputy western Manitoba worthy of the region, this Speaker, at the University of Manitoba are Government will be investing in that. We will do projected to graduate 35 percent more students it. We will fulfil that commitment and we will fo llowing a special investment in program fulfil the commitment to invest across the expansion made by this Government. 218 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 12, 2000

An Honourable Member: Wise investment. appreciate that they do not want to hear too much more on that record, nor probably do they Mr. Caldwell: I know the Minister of Industry, wish to hear more on the record of this Trade and Mines (Ms. Mihychuk) is applauding Government, the record of investment of those that as a wise investment, and I agree with her of us on this side of the House. on that. I will wrap up my remarks with something The conditions for successful learning are in that moved me last night. I was in committee last place, of course, long before a child enters night for The Helen Betty Osborne Memorial kindergarten. This Government made a Foundation Act, the committee hearings for that commitment through the Healthy Child act. I was a child when Helen Betty Osborne was Initiative, Healthy Child Manitoba, to enhance murdered in The Pas. I recall that event Manitobans' ability to have their children be throughout the years making an impact upon me given opportunities before they enter the public as a Manitoban and an impact upon my school system. We are investing in parent-child understanding of racism, of justice in this centres, Mr. Deputy Speaker, investing in F AS province, of a tragedy that befell a fam ily in a · programs across the province to address the very community. I was very moved last night when tragic and very serious issue of fetal alcohol the family made presentations to the committee syndrome in youth and children in this province. about the tremendous loss that they had experienced with the murder of Helen Betty Public schools are increasingly becoming Osborne and the tremendous strength and community schools, centres of activities fo r dignity of that family through some 29 years of seniors, for parents, for adult learners, spiritual turmoil and sadness that have been community sports, and other community events. experienced by that family. Our Government will continue to extend the benefits and hours of operation of local schools, I was very, very moved as the Minister of keeping more gyms and computer rooms open at Education, as a teacher myself, by the night and making schools a resource base for commitment of all parties at that committee last parents and for pre-school children in our night to put aside petty politics, to put aside what communities throughout the province of oftentimes in this Chamber borders on shameful Manitoba. behaviour, personal issues coming to the floor of this Chamber, and fo r a common good make Classroom learning will be linked with redress in the best way we can 29 years later as education experiences available outside the members of this Legislature to honour the school. High school students should have the memory of Helen Betty Osborne, to com­ option of taking university or college courses for memorate her life and to commemorate it in a credits in high school. Students should get credit very fitting fa shion for someone who wished to on their transcripts for community volunteer become a teacher and whose dreams were cut work. Every graduating student should be able to short by a brutal murder, to inaugurate a assemble a portfolio that reflects the breadth of foundation dedicated to providing support to their learning experience, and this Government Aboriginal Manitobans who share the same is committed to providing for those lifelong dream that Helen Betty Osborne had, to become opportunities for youth throughout the course of a teacher, to inaugurate a fo undation, Mr. our mandate. Deputy Speaker, that will support those dreams for those young Manitobans and perhaps not so Mr. Deputy Speaker, I think I could go on at young Manitobans who dream of becoming a more length in regard to the education teacher in the province of Manitoba. commitments met and the education commitments made during the recent Throne I began my remarks today in giving thanks, Speech. Members opposite are urging me not to in giving praise to the teachers and educators of say more. I understand that, because I have been our province, who do such extraordinarily good making many references to the record of work day in and day out for the future of the members opposite over the last decade. I youth of this province. Certainly the dreams of December 12, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 219

Helen Betty Osborne will correspond to that I also want to thank all of my colleagues on vision of providing the best possible education this side of the House today for their tireless for young Manitobans and for living that dream support and advice and for their kind words of of being a teacher. welcome and encouragement. As I conclude my remarks, I want to just say As the newly elected rookie member, I am that I am very thankful and grateful as the very much looking forward to working with the Minister of Education that the Helen Betty members on both sides of the Chamber to ensure Osborne Foundation will be dedicated to the flow of debate continues on issues that are of assisting young Aboriginal Manitobans in concernto all Manitobans. pursuing their dreams of becoming teachers in this province. I am very, very proud of all There are a fe w other people who are new to members who participated in that debate. this process around the Legislature, and I would Unanimously we will be passing that act into like to recognize and welcome these individuals law this week. to the Chamber: the six interns and new pages who have recently been appointed. I wish you Finally, I am very proud to be a part of the well in your endeavours and welcome you to Doer government, the education government of your new posts. It is sometimes comforting to the 21st century in Manitoba. know that you are not the only new person in the room learning a new set of rules that governs this Chamber. I trust that if any of you pages see Mrs. Heather Stefanson (Tuxedo): Mr. Deputy me walking in the wrong direction or perhaps Speaker, this is the first time I have had the nodding where I should not be nodding or opportunity to speak in response to a Throne perhaps heckling in inappropriate areas, you will Speech. I am honoured to rise in the House be the first ones to tell me, although I am sure today in the Second Session of the Thirty­ that my colleagues on this bench here will be the Seventh Legislature of the Province of first ones to let me know if I am completely out Manitoba. of line here. I would first like to thank the constituents of Tuxedo for giving me the privilege of * (16:00) representing them in the Legislative Assembly. Mr. Deputy Speaker, I would like to thank the former member for Tuxedo, Gary Filmon, It goes without saying that I would not be for his outstanding commitment to the people of standing before you today if it were not for the Tuxedo. For nearly 20 years as their MLA, Mr. support of so many outstanding citizens in our Filmon represented the people of Tuxedo with community. I thank them whole-heartedly for honour and distinction. He is an outstanding their commitment and guidance throughout this community leader, husband, father, grandfather, process. citizen of Manitoba and friend. Today I want to sincerely thank him for everything that he has I also want to take this opportunity to done, not only for the constituency of Tuxedo welcome our new leader of the PC Party of but for the province of Manitoba. Manitoba to his official post in the Manitoba Legislature as the Leader of the Official I also want to mention the commitment to Opposition and the MLA for KirkfieldPark. the Tuxedo community and the province of Manitoba that has been demonstrated by another Some Honourable Members: The next outstanding person in our community, Janice Premier. Filmon. Mrs. Filmon is someone who has tirelessly and consistently made her mark in Mrs. Stefanson: The next Premier, absolutely. I Manitoba as one of the most exceptional and want to thank our leader for all his guidance and committed volunteers in our community. I am support over the last several weeks in my bid to proud and honoured, Mr. Deputy Speaker, to call represent the people of Tuxedo. her my fr iend, and I want to thank her for her 220 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 12, 2000

contributions to the betterment of our have instilled in me and the importance of community and our province. contributing to the betterment of society as a whole. Mr. Deputy Speaker, there are a couple of people that I would like to single out today and Unfortunately, my mother was sadly taken thank for their support and guidance throughout from us earlier this year, and as I understand my life. Firstly, I want to thank my husband, from some statements made by some other Jason, who is not only a terrifichusband but an honourable members in the House, there have unbelievable support and friend. Just when I am been some other members who have lost fe eling it is time to take a break or relax for just members of their fam ily. I extend my sincerest a fe w minutes, there he is encouraging me to condolences for them. take that extra step because it might just make that extra bit of difference. But I know that my mother is here in spirit today cheering me on. I know that her spirit lives Well, I can tell you first-hand that each extra on in our community. step that he has encouraged me to take in life has placed me one step closer to reaching my goals, Over the past several months, I have and on November 21, we made one of those engaged in a process that is fam iliar to members goals happen. November 21 marks a turning fr om both sides of this House: first, a nomination point for our party and for the Manitoba campaign where an outstanding citizen in our Legislature. It represents a new era of vision and community put his name fo rward to seek public leadership with the election of our new Leader office. I want to take this opportunity to thank of the Official Opposition (Mr. Murray). I look Steven Fletcher fo r his dedication to our forward to working with him and my other community and his commitment to the students colleagues in the Legislature to ensure that all of of the University of Manitoba as the current our goals are met in the months and years ahead. president of UMSU. Mr. Deputy Speaker, I look fo rward to working with Steven in the months If there is one thing I have learned from and years ahead to ensure that our community in Jason, it is perseverance and to never give up on Tuxedo remains a vibrant one. any goals I am trying to achieve. He never lets me lose sight of my goals in life and always ensures that I maintain my focus. His support Over the past fe w months I have had the and guidance throughout many stages I have opportunity to work with hundreds of undergone throughout my career have helped to outstanding volunteers in our community under shape me into the person that I am today, and I the leadership of my campaign managers, David want to thank him for his continued love and Filmon and Jim Moore. Most of these volunteers support. were new to the political process. Many of these people shared their own concerns with me about Mr. Deputy Speaker, there are two other the current direction of the province and fe lt it special people that I want to thank on this very was time to get involved to do something about special day, my first response to the Speech from it. the Throne. I want to thank my parents, Diane and Hugh MacDonald, for their encouragement During the by-election campaign I heard a and endless support throughout my life. I can number of comments made about issues causing recall several political discussions that have residents some concern. Unfortunately, what taken place with both of them over the years, Manitobans heard from this Government in the some perhaps more heated than others, but recent Throne Speech lacked in ingenuity and always a refreshing discussion nonetheless. I can vision and failed to make any real commitments say today that my love of this province and this to Manitobans on some of the more important country comes from the strong commitments to issues facing our province today. More the community that have been made by my importantly for me, it failed to address some of mother and father, and I want to sincerely thank the issues of real concern to my constituents, them for the community-minded spirit that they namely health care and lower taxes. December 12, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 221

I very recently spent 35 days going door to Our citizens of all ages deserve to have the door in Tuxedo listening to the concerns of same opportunities that they have in other people in my constituency. The No. 1 issue, provinces in our country. We owe it to these aside from there being confusion because the people to at least try and create an environment federal election was at the same time, was of economic prosperity. This Government has let unequivocally health care. People were the people of Manitoba down with their broken disappointed in the promises that were made in promises, hidden agenda and mismanaged the last election campaign by the NDP approach to governing. A long-term vision for governmentbut were not honoured. our province takes more thanjust mentioning the year 2020 in the Throne Speech. We need to Mr. Deputy Speaker, this Government was create an environment that is conducive to elected on the promise to Manitobans that they keeping young people here in Manitoba. would end hallway medicine and fix our health care system with a mere $15 million. To date the Aftervisi ting more than 7500 households in Government has failed to keep its promise. No my constituency and listening to what people matter how unrealistic this promise was, it was a have to say, I can tell you that the only way to promise that was made to the people of keep people here in Manitoba is by significantly Manitoba. Where I come from, a promise that is lowering personal income taxes. If Manitoba is made is a promise kept. not at least competitive with other jurisdictions of our country, we can say goodbye to affordable This has been and remains the No. 1 issue in health care and education systems, and we can Manitoba. Therefore it is disappointing to note say goodbye to all of our social programs, that the Throne Speech did little to further the because there will not be anyone here left to pay Government's commitment to health care. This for these programs. morning and yesterday morning and during the course of the recent by-election campaign in Mr. Deputy Speaker, I met my husband Tuxedo, I visited several seniors homes in our outside this province, and seven years ago we area and talked to these people about what their decided to move home to Manitoba. We decided thoughts were on the direction of the current to move home because there were opportunities government. fo r us in Manitoba. At that time, the government, under the leadership of Gary Filmon, was on its I can tell you first hand, Mr. Deputy way to fixing up the atrocious debt and deficits Speaker, that these people were not happy with and the high tax burdens left to them by the the current government, which has neglected in fo rmer NDP government. Manitoba was once the last two throne speeches to address the again becoming a have province, fu ll of job members of the senior population. Seniors are an opportunities and responsible government. I love important part of our community and deserve to living in Manitoba, and I want to remain living be treated with better respect than the way they here at home with my friends and family, but have been treated by this current government. already I can see that some people are seeking opportunities elsewhere in our country. Mr. Deputy Speaker, as the youngest member of this Legislative Assembly, I must An Honourable Member: Why? touch on the lack of vision that this Government has fo r young people in our province. Ensuring * (16:10) that we have affordable education to prepare our young people for the world economy is Mrs. Stefanson: If we continue to tax our imperative, but if we do not provide incentives citizens-and let me tell you why-at the rates that and opportunities to work and raise their families we do, we will lose more and more people to here in our province, then there is little point in other prosperous areas of our country every day. offering an affordable education system if the One of my own friends recently relocated to essence of such a system is to prepare people to Alberta fo r the same salary. He saves $3,500 per move elsewhere. year in personal income taxes alone, and that 222 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 12, 2000 does not even take into consideration the other Opposition is to make sure that this Government tax incentives of that province. remains accountable fo r its actions and accountable to the people of Manitoba. My The Government talked about a welcome­ colleagues and I will ensure to the best of our home campaign in the Throne Speech. Well, if ability that that happens. we continue to tax our citizens to the extent we have, the only people I see rushing our borders In closing, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I want to are those people trying to leave to seek once again thank the people of Tuxedo fo r their opportunities elsewhere in our country. confidence in me by electing me to represent them in the Manitoba Legislature. It is indeed an This Government also promised to keep honour and a privilege to do so. Thank you. Manitoba competitive in order to attract businesses to our province. Again, the Throne Hon. Oscar Lathlin (Minister of Speech lacked any real commitment in the fo rm Conservation): I am also proud to rise today to of new tax cuts or long-term goals for Manitoba speak about our Government's Speech fr om the businesses. This is just yet another indication Throne. Before I do that though I would like to that this Government lacks the long-term vision also offer my congratulations to those members that is needed to keep Manitoba competitive and who have been recently elected to the Manitoba to ensure our economic successes in the years to Legislature, the Member fo r Kirkfield Park (Mr. come. Murray) and also the Member for Tuxedo (Mrs. Stefanson). I of fe r them my congratulations and As a newly elected member of this I wish them well in their career in politics. Assembly, I am concerned about this Government's lack of vision and commitment to Mr. Deputy Speaker, I also want to the issues that are of concern to all of acknowledge the young people who have been Manitobans and to most Manitobans. Our vision appointed to the positions of page in this for Manitoba is a competitive environment, Legislature. I would also congratulate them on where young people are not fo rced to move to their appointment, because I think it is an Calgary or Toronto or indeed to the United appointment that they will benefit fr om greatly. I States so that they can keep more of what they think it is one aspect of their growth and earn. Our vision is for a Manitoba that provides development that they will remember fo r a long for safer communities so the elderly and indeed time. I know that it will contribute to their future all Manitobans fe el safe walking down our development tremendously. streets and feel safe in our own homes. Our vision is for a Manitoba that provides young So, Mr. Deputy Speaker, indeed I am people with the kind of education they need to honoured to rise today to speak on the Throne prepare them for the new economy and the Speech because this Throne Speech, contrary to workforce right here in Manitoba. Our vision is what members opposite say, contains a vision for a province that offers a competitive labour fo r a healthy future for our children and our environment, that encourages co-operation children's children. The Speech from the Throne between employers and employees, not one that recognizes that the most important part of a drives wedges between them. secure future fo r our children is for a healthy environment. I am very disappointed in this Throne Speech. I cannot support something that lacks in Of course this concept is not a new one. vision and is void of any plan fo r the future of First Nations fo r many generations have our province. practised what is now referred to as sustainable development. Throughout history we have Mr. Deputy Speaker, after 14 months and always considered the consequences of our their second Throne Speech this Government actions fo r the seven generations that come after continues to fa il in their mandate to us. It is again why I am proud that we have put appropriately carry out a plan and a vision fo r so much emphasis on environmental issues in the future of this province. Our mandate as the our vision for the future. Before talking about December 12, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 223 what is to come, however, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Anderson, praising our initiatives on the east I would like to spend a few moments talking side ofLake Winnipeg. about what we have already been able to achieve in just one year of being in office. * (16:20)

Throughout last year, I had the opportunity Early on in my term, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I to tour many parts of the province to see first­ met with those people who suffered in 1997 hand how we are managing our fo rests, our from the effects of the flood, and every meeting water, our fisheries and how we are dealing with that I went to, I was moved by the way they told environmental hazards that have been existing in me their stories. They still were feeling pretty many places in Manitoba. For example, I refer to hurt by being blamed by the previous the orphan mine sites. There are five of them in government fo r living on a floodplain. northern Manitoba. I have visited two of those sites, Mr. Deputy Speaker, and I must say that So within our firstfe w months in office, Mr. given the fact that the members opposite had Deputy Speaker, we developed a flood action been sitting on the government side fo r 10 to 12 plan and have now acted on the majority of those years, I was really saddened to see the state of recommendations that came out of Ernst & the mines, the way that they were left when Young and also the International Joint mining was no longer possible. Commission reports fo llowing the 1997 flood. We know we will be able to work in a co­ Mr. Deputy Speaker, if that situation were to operative way with all members as we prepare exist in the south or in Winnipeg, it would truly fo r any future floods, particularly with our high be a scandal, and the people from the city here, moisture levels that we have experienced this from the south, would not put up with it. fall. However, this situation has existed in northern Manitoba for many years, and it is truly Another issue leftby the fo rmer government shameful that the former government did not do was the threat of a Devils Lake outlet and anything to remedy the problem. proposals fo r the Gar rison Diversion on the south side of the border. The Premier (Mr. Doer) Besides doing that, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I and I have worked together to stop Devils Lake have met with 64 municipalities and First and any trans-boundary water projects that Nations and have visited with Manitoba citizens would cause undue harm to Manitoba's from across the province. We have also been waterways. involved at the national stage in five federal­ provincial meetings, talking about energy, parks, We also know that we must take care of our fo restry, water and wildlife, and on the water, the quality of water here in Manitoba. So international stage dealing with trans-boundary in that light we have started the Assiniboine water issues. River study to assess water quality in one of our most important rivers. This was a As a result of our meetings with the people recommendation of the Clean Environment of Manitoba and with our fe deral and Commission, by the way, that dates back to international counterparts, we have taken many 1994, so we are happy to have acted on that very actions over the past year to work towards a important recommendation. sustainable fu ture fo r the seventh generation. The importance we placed on water quality, I would like to refer to just some of those Mr. Deputy Speaker, particularly fo r drinking actions. We have, fo r example, begun wide-area water quality, again, led us to create the planning fo r the east side of Lake Winnipeg. Drinking Water Advisory Committee headed by This process will ensure that there is a long-term the chief medical officer. The committee sustainable plan for the boreal forest, as well as developed recommendations on reporting and economic development opportunities for local fo llow-up to drinking water tests. I am pleased to communities. I am pleased to have received a say that we are acting on those letter from my fe deral counterpart, David recommendations, includin g reversing the 224 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 12, 2000 previous government's privatization of drinking On coming into office, I knew from first­ water tests for private wells. hand experience of the many communities that are in my area. I was in Opposition fo r almost I 0 It also became very clear that the years. The previous government was in power relationship between Aboriginal people and for at least 12 years, and I knew that during governments was not the best, especially with those 12 years the North was neglected. I regard to Natural Resources, Environment and remember looking at the Highways budget one so on. For example, last spring, Mr. Deputy year and seeing that the total amount of money Speaker, you will recall that there was a that was allocated to northern Manitoba was not controversy that arose in Lake Dauphin even 6 percent. It was just five point something regarding the fishery. Well, we worked on that percent. That was the way that the previous issue. I met with the sports fishermen. I met with government dealt with northernManitoba. the West Region Tribal Council and the chiefs that fo rmed the tribal council. Everybody I know That is why as I said earlier, Mr. Deputy worked hard to try to resolve the situation that Speaker, I am proud of the initiatives that are was deteriorating every year in Dauphin and outlined in the Throne Speech, because it will Lake Dauphin Fishery. mean that northern Manitoba will finallybecome part of the province of Manitoba again. Northern So, as a result of all the hard work, we have Manitobans will finally be heard again. I am managed to come to an agreement with the West very proud of the Throne Speech. Region Tribal Council. In fact, we signed an MOU not that long ago, and that MOU will result in a development of an arrangement, co­ For example, I toured the orphaned mine management arrangements with the West Region sites as I said earlier. These mine sites had been Tribal Council. Those agreements will work neglected fo r years, and I fo und that there are towards resolving this conflict based on indeed water quality concerns fo r those sustainability of the resource. communities living near those mine sites. I fe lt that that area should no longer be neglected. We Another initiative that I am very proud that have therefore initiated a remediation program to we initiated, Mr. Deputy Speaker, and that is protect northern communities whose water is recently I announced the establishment of the now at risk from those orphaned mine sites. Aboriginal Resource Council. This council will be comprised of Aboriginal people, First Nations * (16:30) and Metis people, and they will be providing recommendations just as those other groups do Of course there are many issues that are that provide or give advice to ministers and extremely important to the well-being of governments. northern communities. In that vein, I, along with my northern colleagues, are developing a So this group will also be added to that long northern economic strategy that will address list of groups who fr om time to time advise health, education, training, housing, the cost of ministers and government. This particular living and many other issues that reflect the council will be giving advice to government on reality of living in northern Manitoba. The issues such as co-management programs, the legislation we have introduced over the past year protection of the environment and also initiatives has also reflected in our Government's that would see Aboriginal people playing a more commitment to environmental protection. active role in the development of government policy and regulations. For example, we have passed legislation that will see banning the export of bulk water fr om I think this council is the first of its kind in Manitoba. Canada, and it will concern itself in activities that will see Aboriginal people and First Nations We have also changed The Planning Act to communities being dealt with in a fair and in a ensure that livestock operations are assessed in respectful way by government. their entirety, the barn and the manure storage, December 12, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 225 and we have added the cumulative impacts to management strategy, including drainage, which those assessments. we will be sharing with all members and municipalities very shortly. By the way, this We have also enabled the banning of penned action was called fo r by both KAP and the hunts in this province which, by the way, had AMM, and we agreed that we must have a long­ been supported during the past election by all the term strategy to manage our water. parties in Manitoba. The Bison Association has also expressed their support for our approach on I know that the Member fo r Emerson (Mr. penned hunting. Jack Penner) and the Member for Lakeside (Mr. Enns) will also be pleased because last summer We have also revamped the Clean during Estimates and public hearings they told Environment Commission and the Manitoba me that it was their government's cuts that round table. We have received support fo r our contributed to the drainage problems, so I look choices from environmental groups such as the fo rward to their co-operation and support on this Canadian Parks and Wilderness Society. In fact issue. In addition, we have already reduced the their newsletter that I read the other day stated, time taken to process a licence, and we will and I quote: "the good news does not stop there, continue to streamline that particular process. that is, with the CEC. Mr. Lathlin announced the membership of a revamped Manitoba round Earlier I talked about the boreal forest. The table. The round table is now dominated by planning for the east side will be the first of its environmentally knowledgeable people as well kind fo r Manitoba, and again I look forward to as those with northern connections and First working with all interested Manitobans on this Nations people." Then it goes on to say the old very important initiative. groups were ineffective because of the way they were structured. One of the most significant parts of our vision is taking action to address climate change. Mr. Deputy Speaker, I can tell you that the In co-operation with my colleague, the Minister groups that we have established have already responsible fo r Hydro (Mr. Selinger), as well as been hard at work. The Manitoba round table, my other Cabinet colleagues around the table, fo r example, since it was fo rmed has met three we are introducing some of the most times, actually since from July. I know that the comprehensive energy efficiency measures in various subcommittees under the Manitoba Canada. In addition, we have placed an emphasis round table have also been meeting in between on research and development as an the regular meetings dealing with the very environmental fo cus, in particular alternative important issues such as water, fo rests, climate energy research, wind, solar, geothermal and change, planning and waste reduction. hydrogen.

So, as I indicated at the beginning of my Although members opposite may not address, I am proud to speak to the Throne understand the significance of economic Speech because we are building on our own production fo r our province, we know that our work over the last year, and I have announced promotion of the ethanol industry supports both many more environmental initiatives in this agriculture diversification and greenhouse gas year's Throne Speech. I am pleased to have reduction. We are pleased therefore to be received the support of the Member fo r River promoting economic development that is Heights (Mr. Gerrard) on our vision fo r the environmentally friendly. That is why we have coming years, and I look fo rward of course to also talked about an ecotourism strategy that his co-operation on our initiatives. supports local economic development and training, and that development to be based on After meeting with municipalities and sustainable principles. reading all the letters that they send in to our office almost on a daily basis concerning All of these initiatives require us to think in drainage issues, I am pleased to say that we have terms of the long-term sustainability of our initiated the development of a water environment, not just here in Manitoba but 226 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 12, 2000 indeed around the world. I look fo rward to the welcome fo r the two new members. It is co-operation of all sides of the House as we look interesting for some of us who have been here toward the sustainable future fo r the seventh fo r a while to see members come and members generation. Mr. Deputy Speaker, with that I go, sometimes of their own decision-making and conclude my remarks. Thank you. at other times at the whim of the public, but I am delighted that my new seatmate has been able to Mr. Harold Gilleshammer (Minnedosa): Mr. become a member of the Legislature, and I think Deputy Speaker, I am pleased to be able to rise that he is going to be one who makes a great and make some comments on the Throne contribution to this province in terms of listening Speech. Before I get into that, I would like to to people and working with people. His strengths welcome the new pages and interns who are a I think will become obvious and I know that the vital part of our system here in the Legislature. I people of Kirkfield Park made a wise decision cannot help but think, as a fo rmer student, as a last month when they elected not only a new principal and a parent, what a wonderful MLA but one who is the leader of our party. opportunity it is fo r these young people to be able to work in this building and to serve in this I would like to also welcome the Member Legislature. I know there are many of them who fo r Tuxedo (Mrs. Stefanson), someone who just have gone on to outstanding careers fo llowing gave a very, very excellent well-researched the experience that they have had in this speech and I think delivered in a way which Legislature. While at times I am sure it might shows poise and confidence. I think someone of seem a little mundane, I think the opportunity to her age, the same age as my oldest daughter, be here fo r those special moments and to work makes me realize what a great contribution that with legislators is a very important part of their young people can make to our society and education as they spend their year here and then indeed this House and I would see a very long move on to further education in most cases and and worthwhile career fo r her as the member for most certainly to some distinguished careers. I Tuxedo. know that we all know some of these individuals and how well they do in their new Having said that, I would like to tum my responsibilities. attention to the Throne Speech. I think in all charity and fairness, this was a very modest I would like to also welcome all of my effort. I have sat here and voted on previous colleagues back to the Legislature after what throne speeches that I think indicated the seems like a brief recess, that we left here in direction of government, and I know that August. While I know this is going to be a short ministers and deputy ministers and departments session, I would hope that the Government is all had input into those throne speeches to able to come back in February or March with a indicate what the agenda of government is. budget and with legislation that we can get on that regular cycle that all of us in this province I am not sure where the process broke down, grow to appreciate. I know that in their first year but there are many departments I think who were there are special start-up issues and not represented in this Throne Speech, many acclimatisation issues that sort of set the initiatives of this Government, I am sure, that schedule out of whack, but, for all of us, I think they are going to bring fo rward that were leftout we work better if we do have a summer to look of this Throne Speech, and we as Opposition forward to, and I know that the Premier (Mr. members raise the issue of what is the agenda of Doer) has been committed in many of his this Government. speeches to both spring and fall sessions. I think now that we are into the second year he has We saw in the last session labour legislation probably got greater control of the timing of that. brought in that was not referenced in the Throne Speech nor the Century Summit nor the speeches * (16:40) that the leader of that party had made to Chambers of Commerce, and people are saying Besides wishing all of my colleagues the where is this Government going in this next best for the new season, I have a special session, what is their legislative package, what December 12, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 227 are the initiatives that they are going to move Diagnostic testing, a lot of this is dependent forward with, because certainly this Throne on new technology or renewing the technology Speech was very light. I guess we are living in a that is there, and government will struggle to society where there are beverages that come in find those resources to do that and to replace light fa shion and other products. other equipment.

This very modest Throne Speech was quite There continues to be failures within the light. I know, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that you system. I know that the agenda during the recognize that, as do members of the election fo r this party was that they would fixall Government. So people are wondering, of issues in a six-month period, that an expenditure course, what the agenda is. It will unfold, I of $15 million was going to suffice. This suppose, as Government prepares itself with apparently-and it is very apparent to the users of those initiatives and has the courage to bring the system-is not happening, and we are seeing them forward. individual cases. I respect that the minister does not like to deal with individual cases here in the There is no question that health care is a top­ House, but there are still many, many of-mind issue with many Canadians. In the Manitobans who find the system wanting. There recent federal election, there was talk about the is a very uneven application of health care in the restoration of huge sums of money that had been province, and many areas of rural Manitoba are ripped out of health care by the federal continuing to feel that. government in 1994-95. I suppose we sometimes might think the fe deral government gets off My colleague from Arthur-Virden pretty easily. They do not have to take a stand on referenced one today where we are expecting specific initiatives. They do not have to that the regional health centre in Brandon is announce programs. They just fo und themselves going to be the health centre that deals with in a position where they could restore a lot of emergencies in the entire Westman area, and that fu nding. Even though that funding was they are having difficulty coping with the withdrawn from provincial governments, most if amount of work that is coming through their not all provincial governments backfilled that doors. We had the case, as was referenced earlier with resources of their own and for the most part today, where someone who had severed a finger, were able to move fo rward at the expense of and there were going to be attempts to save that other areas. finger, could not get that service in Brandon and in fact had to be brought on to Winnipeg in This whole area of health care was really private vehicle to have that digit attended to. So ignored in this Throne Speech. I know that the there are still breakdowns in the system. Minister of Health (Mr. Chomiak) has a lot on his plate as he struggles with decisions and is I know that some months ago health care trying to assign scarce resources to the facilities in the Westman region were told not to appropriate place, but I think all Manitobans send any patients to the Brandon General recognize that there is still a shortage of Hospital. So there are needs out there. There are professionals of all kinds, whether it is nursing problems out there that have not been resolved. or physicians or technicians, and this is a long­ The minister and the Premier (Mr.Doer) can talk term problem that is going to take some time to about some of the surveys that they either findthe solution fo r. contract fo r or buy a part of which indicate to them that everything is fine. I can indicate to the Waiting lists, of course, are always a minister that many of those facilities, many of measure of how the system is working. In a those issues, many of the people requiring number of areas, those waiting lists have become service are not seeing the system as having longer. It seems as you try to make some improved to any great degree. progress in one area, there are other areas that sort of fall by the wayside, and with an aging I would like to also mention the template fo r population, those waiting lists are going to the future of rural health care facilities, and I continue to be a difficultarea. thank the minister who on December 7 sent me a 228 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 12, 2000 copy of his report on his revision to the template come from citizens out there. This is a on the future of rural hospitals. I notice that not government initiative. This is the minister's much has changed on here, that he is still calling initiative, and he should be prepared to stand up fo r the fact that these rural facilities must have and talk about it and justify the direction he fo ur physicians on staff there, that there has to wants these facilities to go in. be three nursing staff in the facility at all times. It makes reference to a minimum population in I am also interested in what he is going to do the catchment area of 5000 people. So this is fo r patient transfers. Last year I had the basically the same report that came out last year. opportunity to reference a specific case where However, it does go further in indicating that someone from my community of Minnedosa was implementation is now up to the RHAs, and it in here fo r treatments, and the treatment bed was indicates that of the rural facilities, by this report only made available for that treatment period. that the minister has passed on to me, there are This elderly individual who was in failing health 32 facilities which he feels should no longer be was sent to a hotel fo r her time in the city when called hospitals. she was not taking the treatment. This in fact made her more ill. * (16:50) I know the minister has talked on many I think that it is incumbent upon the minister occasions of what he has done for health care in to get this discussion going within Manitoba and the city of Winnipeg, what he has done fo r to come fo rward and talk about this report, northern patient transportation. I think another because if in fact he is recommending in this issue that he should try and get his mind around template that he sent to me that 32 of these is the rural patients who are brought in here and facilities should be closed or converted, this is given their treatment and then left on their own very significant news in rural Manitoba and one to fend fo r themselves, sometimes making their that he should be prepared to discuss and defend condition worse. and give an opportunity to the public, to municipal councils, and in fact RHA boards to talk about these. I would hope that he would do If Brandon is going to become the regional that in the near future. centre of the Westman area, I think public statements by the minister should be made. I He has indicated in the past that the funding think appropriate fu nding should be put in place. is sufficient fo r those RHAs or if it is not that he I think the Brandon regional board should be is going to fund them appropriately. Yet we still aware of that, because I can tell you there are hear of RHAs running deficits and wondering communities in the Westman area who fe el that how they are going to manage. Many of the they are welcome there as long as there is a bed costs and cost drivers in those fac ilities and and that, if there is not a bed or a medical RHAs really are beyond the scope and practitioner to see them, then they should not be competence of the RHAs because they are taken directly to Winnipeg as was referenced in related to salaries, they are related to drug costs that case that was brought up in Question Period and other costs of running their facilities. earlier.

So I would hope that the Minister of Health Health care still has its problems out there, (Mr. Chomiak) would want to enter into a public and I would ask the minister to look at that, discussion of this template so that Manitobans especially since none of these issues were raised will understand what the future of health care in in the Throne Speech. I wonder too if he is rural Manitoba is going to look like and how he prepared to make comment on the composition proposes to move ahead with this. I know he has of these boards, whether he has started or is indicated in here that it is up to the RHA boards going to place on these boards people who are to proceed with this, but I can tell you those part of the system, who are employees of the board members are not going to do that. They system. I had indicated to him in one other are not going to take the heat of this initiative. conversation that we had that I saw this as a They are not going to take the pressure that will conflict of interest. He said at that time that he December 12, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 229 did not, and I am just wondering if he has comprehending, and they take some comfort in proceeded with making those appointments. the fact, practitioners do, that they did not make that guarantee. It was the Minister of Education Also, he has been quoted on many occasions who made that guarantee, but they are finding it as saying he favours moving to elected boards, was a very hollow promise andthat the struggles and I am wondering where that initiative is. It is that young people in education have from time a popular concept out there, that people can be to time are still being experienced out there. elected to health care boards. Our stance on that Some youngsters are held back to spend more was, unless they had taxing authority, reallythey time in Grade 3 and other grades, and it appears should not be elected because they had no power that Grade 3 guarantee was rather a promise with to raise their own funds. I hope the minister has a lot of fluff and without much substance. rethought that. I had suggested he talk to somebody he knew in Saskatchewan who had a I think that perhaps the Government, the strong opinion on that and someone he used to minister maybe should retract that and give work for, and I hope he has done that. parents and teachers out there the knowledge that, yes, that was kind of a silly idea that did not Just leaving the health care areas aside fo r work and that they should not fret about that now, I would hope that the light coverage that anymore. the Department of Health got in the Throne Speech does not deter the Minister of Health (Mr. Chomiak) from working those 20 hours a The assessment that is being done in Grade day to solve the problems that are still in the 3 this year has been a burden. I understand that system and that I think he is a long way from the Government wanted to replace the standards solving at this particular time. test with something else at the Grade 3 level. This very time consuming, intrusive assessment I listened earlier to the Minister of is keeping people from moving ahead with their Education, who was very proud of his curriculum. The idea of assessing students and department's contribution to the Throne Speech, what their needs are is something that good and I daresay he should be, that the majority or teachers have always done, but the fact that so at least a good part of the Throne Speech was much of that time has been on a otie-to-one basis devoted to the Department of Education. I would over the first part of this school year has taken indicate that there are still issues out there the that teacher away from teaching the class, taken people are talking about. One has to do with that teacher away from moving ahead with the school division boundaries. I know, when I curriculum. I know in the Westman area there raised this question a year ago, the minister was are a number of Grade 3 teachers who are saying able to say, no, I did not say that; I was we are way behind in curriculum. We are going misquoted. Then, some months ago, he made the to have to try and catch up on this sometime. same statements, this time a little more boldly, This has not been a good thing. and I believe he is sticking to them, that this Government wants to condense the number of * (17:00) school divisions, and if school divisions do not do that on their own, there is going to be some I would like to talk about taxation and the sort of forced amalgamation. I think what is economy and labour legislation as well in the missing is dialogue right now with school second part of my speech. I was at a breakfast divisions. They are looking for some direction. this morning with the Manitoba Chamber and They are looking fo r some procedure and none have had an opportunity to meet with other of that has been forthcoming from the minister people in the business community. Yes, they or the Department of Education. recognize that the momentum that the economy gained in the last half of the 1990s is still there. The Grade 3 guarantee, people are They recognize that that momentum is there wondering out there what that guarantee means. because the government of the day got a lot of There are still youngsters at the Grade 3 level things right, that there were the appropriate who have difficulty learning, reading, writing, signals sent to the business community which 230 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 12, 2000 gave them the confidence to invest and to saw many ministers trumpeting new expand their businesses in this province. expenditures.

What they are looking for is something more Yes, there are going to have to be new definitive on taxation. My colleague who spoke expenditures to keep up with contracts, with earlier talked about the delinking of the some of the initiatives that are ongoing. I am not provincial income tax from the fe deral tax a year going to say there is a sense of alarm, but there early. This did allow the Government to cloud is a sense moving in that direction that this the taxation issue. The fact of the matter is Government is going to either make very modest during the 1990s the provincial income tax was tax decreases in this Budget or perhaps none at reduced from 54 percent to 4 7 percent of the all or perhaps look at new taxes or taxes which fe deral tax. This Government claimed are beyond the scope of the balanced budget responsibility fo r the last one-and-a-half percent legislation. of that which had been announced two Budgets ago. I do not take great issue with that. It did I can tell you that is something, I think, as a reduce taxes, but I think what the Minister of government, you will be sorry fo r, because you Finance (Mr. Selinger) and the Premier (Mr. will be out of step with what other governments Doer) need to know is that other provinces are are doing in the Maritimes but most specifically moving ahead with this. Alberta and Ontario are in Saskatchewan, Alberta and Ontario. the two most obvious examples, but I think often the best comparison for Manitoba is the The community is also concerned about Government of Saskatchewan. They have where this Government wants to go with labour reduced their sales tax from 7 percent to 6 legislation. Last year, unheralded, unannounced, percent, I believe, and they have committed to it brought in a bill making major labour changes. reducing personal income taxes by 25 percent, I It was not mentioned in the Throne Speech or believe, during this mandate. the Century Summit, which was come and talk to us about business and brought labour in. This That is the signal that Manitobans are came as a surprise to the business community, looking fo r. That is the signal that Manitoba and you got a very strong reaction to that. Rob businesses are looking for, individuals are Hilliard has written a letter to the Minister of looking fo r, because the way the tax regime is Labour (Ms. Barrett) and the Premier (Mr. Doer) right now, with a family earner of $60,000, and I saying: Listen, these things go over better if we daresay that is pretty typical of a Manitoban just do a little bit at a time every year. Yet today earning $60,000, he or she is paying the nothing has been announced in the Throne highest personal taxes in the country. In fact, Speech, nothing has been signalled about where their taxes went up this year with the de-linking the Government is going with labour legislation. process. The one thing they have mentioned is the We can always find examples within the tax minimum wage that they ran on a promise to structure of somebody whose taxes went down. review it every year, and after a year and two or Certainly the Governmentmade a move to lower three months, they have increased it by 25 cents. property taxes. That is recognized that that is the They are saying it is the seventh highest in way they wanted to go, but I can tell you, if the Canada, but I think, in fairness, you can take the business community is going to keep this northern territories out of the mix, and, yes, after momentum going to create more jobs, to expand, British Columbia and Quebec and Ontario, to hire more people, to have the confidence in Manitoba is really the fo urth highest province. the economy, this Government is going to have But the best comparison you could make on to make a major statement on taxation. Yes, they minimum wage is to Alberta and Saskatchewan. can wait till the Budget, and they can do their Manitoba is now higher than those two prairie Budget consultations and they can do their provinces. I believe the minimum wage in Treasury Board consultations, but I can tell you Saskatchewan is $6, and the minimum wage in that, in the Throne Speech and before that, we Alberta is $5.70. December 12, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 231

The change you have made is not dramatic, hear from the member. It does confuse some and I think it is accepted, but I can tell you that people too. I would offer him the opportunity to what is bothering the business community and stand now and retract this, if he is so inclined. others is the fact that, if you review it every year, are you going to raise it every year, what is the I would have him reference page 34 of the process you are going to put in place to do that, December 6 Hansard where he imputes motives because there was no process used this time. It to our party and our caucus on the dealing of was simply the back half of a recommendation Crown corporations. He knows that he went a made in 1998. little too far and he should correct that. I will give him time to look at that. So I think the Government owes it to the business community, the public at large to say *(17:10) this is the process we are going to fo llow in changing minimum wage. There should be There are other issues that we could talk legitimate consultation with the public. In the about, the casinos. One of the reporters recently past there has been a process with the Manitoba said "casino farce reveals NDP government is Federation of Labour and small businesses to incompetent." Probably that went a little further appoint a task force with a chairman and come than it should have. Clearly it has been an issue fo rward with recommendations. I would hope that this Governmentis being judged on. I do not that that process is going to continue to be say that the motivations were wrong, but the followed and that people will have some input implementation has been a bit of a disaster. It is into it. I can tell you that as a government you one of those growing pains that governments should be very weary about what our minimum will have from time to time. wage is relative to Saskatchewan and Alberta.

There are many other issues that have come Other issues around the Department of up over the course of time that have not been Conservation, and I think a lot of them could be mentioned but have come up in Question Period. solved by having the minister go to meetings, Maybe I should turn now to the speech from my attend meetings and resolve some of those honourable fr iend from Dauphin-Roblin whom I issues. I can tell you that members of the AMM know members on this side generally have a are elected officials, reeves, mayors, and reasonable amount of respect fo r. I think he is councillors, and they have to be treated with a one of the members in this Chamber who is certain amount of respect. I think part of that well-respected and usually brings some insight respect is having access to ministers. In fact, the to debate and some consistency in the manner in Premier indicated very clearly at the AMM which he conducts himself. banquet that his ministers were accessible. Well, that does not appear to be the case. Again, it is a I did not read his entire speech, but one of behaviour that could be corrected, but something the things that jumped out of Hansard at me was that needs to be done in the near future. his comments on what our view of Crown corporations is. My colleague challenged him I would like to just end my contribution to and he had an opportunity to, at that time, the Throne Speech by talking to rural Manitoba. correct the record and say yeah, I have gone too I am hopeful the Minister of Agriculture (Ms. far. I would offer that to him today because I Wowchuk) would pay some attention. I think think there is an intellectual dishonesty in that the area of the southwest cornerof Manitoba making statements attributing policies to that was so devastated by excess moisture in members of this side of the House that are not 1999 has been badly served by this Government. correct. I think the member knows that. I would I think it has been rather shameful that members say that being intellectually dishonest is not a of Cabinet have not fo und a solution to assist role that he normally plays, but at some point I those people in the southwest corner. I would think he should stand and correct this because it hope the Minister of Agriculture and the minister does leave an impression out there with of rural development and others would find a Manitobans who sometimes believe what they solution for those people. 232 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 12, 2000

We are finding this year that there are we did on the Shilo issue and were able to bring businesses closing. The school enrollment is that to their attention and hopefully a successful going down. People are losing their jobs and conclusion at some point, the Government in rather than blame the fe deral government or Manitoba needs to take another look at that blame the government that preceded you, you southwest region of Manitoba, because there need to find new and innovative solutions to that were crops that were never planted. There was area that was so devastated by that excess money just lacking in the communities, in the moisture. I know I brought this up in the House economy, and it has been a very stressful time in August, and the Premier drove out No. 2 out there. highway or No. 3 highway and visited in Killarney, Boissevain and Melita, and came back say, too, to the Minister of saying, yes, I have been out there, I understand. Intergovernmental Affairs (Ms. Friesen), But nothing has happened, and those people fo rmerly the Department of Rural Development deserve better from their Government. Those had a lot of unique opportunities, unique people have legitimate issues. Those people need programs for rural Manitoba. There is a fe eling better treatment. that they are being neglected. There is a feeling that there are very fe w Grow Bonds that are I would ask the Minister of Agriculture, I being issued out there, that the REDI program know that targeting support fo r that area of and other programs have gone by the wayside southwestern Manitoba is vital. She can go to and that there is not attention being paid to the her stock answers about dealing with crop economy, in rural Manitoba but most insurance and dealing with some of the revenue specifically in southwestern Manitoba. I would issues, but I think that the Premier, the Minister urge the Premier (Mr. Doer), the Minister of of Agriculture and the Minister of Finance (Mr. Selinger), the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs (Ms. Friesen) need to Agriculture (Ms. Wowchuk), the Minister of find a fresh approach to that area. These are Intergovernmental Affairs (Ms. Friesen) maybe people who are long-time producers. They fe el to take a fr esh look at that excess moisture issue that they did not get the same treatment that the of 1999 and try and find a solution. Red River Valley got in 1997. Rather than blame other people fo r this, I would challenge the Now the late Bob Rose chaired a committee Minister of Agriculture to go out there and find that looked at some of the businesses that were some solutions. devastated. Yes, that report was delivered in the middle of an election campaign, and this I know the Member fo r Brandon West (Mr. Government has chosen not to deal with it. I Smith) will hear this in Brandon, that the would urge you to take a second look at it, that business community very much depend on there are some solutions there, solutions that southwestern Manitoba. I know being at a were applied in the Red River Valley in 1997. Chamber meeting a number of years ago­ With some modest input from the Government, perhaps he was there, too-when the owner of some of these things could be made to work in Canadian Tire received the Man of the Year that area so we would not have businesses Award. He wanted to tell his fe llow Chamber closings, schools losing population, people members that 53 percent of his business that losing their jobs. I would ask the Government to came through his door came from outside of look at that. Brandon. I know that other members in the Brandon community recognize that and it is the heart of western Manitoba. So the Government gets another opportunity with the Budget speech. Many will argue that the There is such of shortage of money in that Budget is really the policy document of the area, going back to 1999. I think the Government and that the Budget is the Government has to continue to pressure the instrument- federal government, who did not elect any Liberals out there and it is difficult to get Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order, please. The through to them. I think this Government,jus t as member's time has expired. December 12, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 233

Mr. Gilleshammer: I thank you, and I know ones in the past have worked hard assisting and that members opposite will act accordingly. helping, helping in their duties. I would like to welcome Vincent Barletta, Jiirgen Derrer, Sarah Mr. Deputy Speaker: Before I recognize the Freund, Bonnie Hiltz, Colin Lemoine and Erin next speaker in the Throne Speech, may I remind Melrose and wish them well in their year and in all honourable members of the House that the their education in the process. presumption of all members being honourable is being negated by an imputation of being Mr. Deputy Speaker, as well, I would like to intellectually dishonest. How can you be again thank Brandon West, who placed their honourable if you are intellectually dishonest? confidence in me to represent them here with So we should be careful about terms we use their views. I believe very strongly that people because this term "dishonest intellectually" need to be assured that their input is considered implies deliberate intent. [interjection] as part of the decision-making process, not subsequent to decisions being made. I have tried The Speaker has not recognized the to make myself available to people in Brandon member. West and have had a lot of input, and I appreciate it very much. Their constructive voice Mr. Scott Smith (Brandon West): It is a is a voice that I like to bring to this House and pleasure to stand again, rise and speak fo r my will continue to do that in the future. With this second time on our Government's second Throne Government, I fo und it to be a government that Speech. very much listens to people.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, it is a vision that is set It is unfortunate that we only have a short for Manitoba by the Government, and in this period of time each to talk on the Throne Speech case very, very favourable. It is a pleasure as and the visions for the Throne Speech. However, well to welcome into the House two new in this Throne Speech, the vision that was put members from opposite, the Member fo r fo rth was the continued rebuilding, restructuring Kirkfield Park (Mr. Murray) as well as the of health care that our Health Minister (Mr. Member for Tuxedo (Mrs. Stefanson). I wish to Chomiak) and this Government have worked bring quickly, and I will get off this point, I hope very astringently and tirelessly over the last 14 that they do represent their community. I am months to create health care in this province that sure they are committed individuals. Obviously, is a complete turnaround from what it was a the 57 members in this House care deeply about mere 14 months ago, with the vision of a Health their individual communities and that we can Minister who, the member opposite had hear and listen to each other. During the initial mentioned, works 20 hours a day. I believe that Throne Speech I hope they do not fo llow in the would be a short day. He does work continually fo otsteps of some of the members in the House. and has set up a structure for a vision of health The decorum I believe was very, very poor in care in Manitoba. It is becoming very, very the House. It certainly set a poor example for evident and obvious in each and every facility any new members, and I was quite appalled throughout our province. myself as were many of the people that viewed the Throne Speech. Mr. Deputy Speaker, the continued vision and support to education is a vision that this * (17:20) Government holds dear, as do Manitobans. A society committed to lifelong learning is one of I am sure that those two members will have the most important legacies that we can create made this observation themselves and conclude fo r our children. This Government believes that that is not the best way to hold themselves strongly in that. Our Education Minister (Mr. in this House. Caldwell) has worked very well with parents within the communities, with teachers, with the Getting off that, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I school boards, and again has believed very would like to welcome, new to this Legislature, strongly that the input should be part of the six new interns that work very diligently. The process, not subsequent to a decision being 234 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 12, 2000

made. That has been evident with bringing Tommy Douglas, J. S. Woodsworth, Ed together the working groups of all for the benefit Schreyer I would pit and put against Brian of our children here in Manitoba, as well as for Mulroney and the Devine government and the adults in secondary education. members that he had worked with previously, myself as well. So I guess there is a difference in The health care and Healthy Child Initiative philosophy. That philosophy is becoming that is being brought fo rth and was in this increasingly evident with debate on the Throne Throne Speech obviously is very, very important Speech, and I think Manitobans will certainly and will be something that will be fo cussed on in side with a vision such as leaders of this party the next year by this Government. have continued to have over the last number of years. The consultations on sustainable develop­ ment in Conservation, the environmental The future growth and the advantages our strategies that are being put fo rth by this Government sees fo r Manitoba Hydro are Government are strategies that will be outlined in our Throne Speech, and the quality of implemented to increase protection of our long-term jobs through that very important drinking water, our lakes and our rivers fo r all corporation that we had said a year ago in the people in this province. last Throne Speech is something that we committed to and said during the election that I know the member opposite, the new Manitoba Hydro would not be considered fo r Member for Kirkfield Park (Mr. Murray), had sale at any price. It is something that people mentioned that some of these visions that were have got and have a share and own part of in mentioned in the Throne Speech were utopian in every part of this province. Our strategy working outreach. Mr. Deputy Speaker, if, in fact, they with Manitoba Hydro is going to become evident are utopian in suggestions, it may be a little bit and very constructive fo r rural residents within hard for that member to grasp that the quality of Manitoba with the rates being the same in The life is very, very important to Manitobans. That Pas or Virden or Portage or Lac Du Bonnet or was loud and clear. He likes to mention coming any area you might mention in the province, the in third in a by-election, but it was very evident same as it is in Brandon, Winnipeg, or the larger and very clear in the priorities of Manitobans in centres. This not only gives a fair playing field 1999. People in Manitoba do not believe health and the same advantage fo r people within their care, education, the environment and some of the own homes but businesses as well to set up and growth potential in working with strategies for compete in any part of this province on a fair community economic development, to enhance and level playing field. our priorities for the health of our boreal fo rest, as well as the opportunities there, is not utopian; The new Healthy Child initiatives and other in fact, it is visionary. program changes will be announced this session. It was mentioned in the Throne Speech and I That member also mentioned some of the believe very visionary with our ministers. Again people that he had worked with that he was so that might be one of the things that the member proud of. I believe, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that from Kirkfield Park called utopian in nature, but Casey Stengel said it quite well when he said quite fr ankly I do not believe that is what some people make things happen, some people Manitobans believe. I believe it is something watch things happen, and some ask what that Manitobans realize benefits their fam ilies. It happened. I would consider that maybe the benefits their communities. It benefits what we Kirkfield Park member was in the latter believe is community economic development, category, in that process asked what happened, building with everybody in mind to give whereas this Government, in fact, will make everybody a fair and level playing field. things happen. Mr. Deputy Speaker, I would like to get into The history of this side of the House with a little bit of some of the initiatives that we have Howard Pawley and not only people in our party seen over the last year. Since our taking of office but the likes of Duff Roblin and, of course, in September of 1999, it is incredible the December 12, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 235 changes that have been seen over the last 14 important to constituents and people in their months. communities, and I believe that the lack of leadership and credibility has hit into the hole Last yeararound this time, close to this time, fo r members opposite in the Member for we had seen a budget of overspending in health Kirkfield Park's (Mr. Murray) example of care in this province when we took office of demanding lower taxes and balanced budgets somewhere in the area of $170 million. The and nonconsideration fo r some of the health care health authorities this year are working with our issues that we find so important. Health Minister (Mr. Chomiak), and I must give credit to all the health authorities and the hard An Honourable Member: That is the Domo work that they have done. It looks like they are dollars. going to be very, very close at this time in being balanced, in budget, and the initiatives that have Mr. Smith: The members opposite had a billion been taken by our health care minister and been dollars. I believe they probably do have a billion taken by the amalgamations of the Winnipeg dollars now and one of the members mentioned health authorities and some of the other that that might be funny money or Domo dollars incentives that have taken place over the last 14 or whatever namesthat we might have. months.

* (17:30) But in 1994 the members opposite promised a prostate cancer centre and where was that after The people in Manitoba have seen this. They the election? Where was that in 1995, you have sent a message very loud and very clear in to ask yourself. I know they promised $600 Manitoba health. In health fo cus, health care million in capital expenditures for health care issues polling that was done in February of 1999, prior to 1995 and where was that I would like to we saw an approval of the health care system. know. I know it was not in Brandon where it was Forty-four percent of the people in Manitoba promised in my community, in the constituency believed that the health care system was where I come from. We have heard a few sufficient, that it was doing a good job and it was members opposite speak today about some of the progressive. incentives our minister has fo r Brandon and region. The hospital in Brandon has long been Under the guidance of our health care considered a regional hospital; however, it has minister, we have seen in October of 2000 that never received the funding or it has never turnaround fo r Manitobans, fo r Manitoba received any dollars fo r capital investment. families, children, and everybody in our communities to an approval of 75.8 percent. An Honourable Member: They paid lip-service That is a substantial change. It is a 30% increase to it. in Manitobans saying that they believe the initiatives that we have taken have been a good Mr. Smith: Paid a lot of lip-service to that over job and in the right direction. We will be the first the years, and yet here, going in very shortly to admit and say on this side that there is work to after 14 months, we are seeing strides in that do. area, we are seeing bricks and mortar and holes There is more work to do in the health care being dug. We are seeing tenders being put out; field. It is continual; it will never stop, and we we are seeing what really is a vision for a will keep striving towards that goal of making regional health care centre in southwestern this the healthiest province in North America Manitoba that will serve a lot of rural Manitoba and hopefully the world, and I believe under the and a centre of excellence for the area. So it is guidance of the minister that we have that is interesting the promised prostate cancer centre in certainly very, very possible. '94 went nowhere. This year, in 2000, our first year, the centre is really a vision. It is being I believe strongly opposition parties are completed. It is being done. People are meant to oppose the Government, to keep the benefiting from it, and this really is a substantial Government addressed on issues that are move forward in health care. 236 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 12, 2000

Our minister said that the five-point plan to minister. The recent health poll I believe really increase the numbers of beds, improve shows what Manitobans feel has happened in admission and discharge policies, strengthen health care. Just about 76 percent, 75.8 percent prevention programs, increase community-based of Manitobans, satisfied with the health care service and expand provincial home care would system, saying it is good or excellent and be implemented. Promises made, promises kept. moving in the right direction is something that I These are the vision of our Government. They believe this Government can take a lot of credit were promises that were made and I again say in and certainly be very, very proud of a health were kept. care minister who has brought us so far so quickly. We implemented a plan to train and hire more nurses fe aturing a two-year diploma Mr. Speaker, the vision of children and program, nurses' retention fund, advisory council youth in our communities, we have seen a and recruitment strategies, and we see now in the minister take the Healthy Child Initiative, $13 Winnipeg Free Press today some of the million allocated to parent/child centres, pre­ initiatives in that line that will be announced natal and early childhood nutrition, nurseries and very shortly by our Health Minister. Again, schools, teen pregnancy reduction has been our promises made, promises kept, and moving vision. I guess maybe again that is an utopian­ fo rward. type vision that the Member fo r Kirkfield Park (Mr. Murray) spoke about earlier, but certainly Mr . Sp eaker in the Chair our vision fo r Manitoba.

Mr. Speaker, we have seen over the last 11 The Throne Speech spoke about vision fo r years, fr om '89 to '99, the expanded vision of the the future and some of the opportunities that we members opposite. Firing well over a thousand have fo r our expansion here, fo r economic nurses was their solution with Connie Curran, development within the province. It is becoming someone who got somewhere in the area of $4 very, very evident again in some of the million for her efforts and her vision to bring philosophical differences between ourselves on back-and I will tell you they created the frozen this side and members opposite. Just early this fo od fiasco, and I am proud to say our minister afternoon, we heard the Member for Fort Whyte ended the expansion of the fr ozen fo od fiasco (Mr. Loewen) speak about business and and that poor little carrot that ran back and fo rth development within our province. It is sad when between here and Ontario and was abused and you hear the gloom and doom and the-sky-is­ pounded and freeze-dried and sent back and fa lling scenario that comes from the members slopped on the plates and thrown to some of our opposite. He spoke briefly about I 00 or I 01 bedridden people here in Manitoba is not going economics. I can tell you, in that course, as I to happen anymore. recall, one of the main disadvantages to any company or corporation or community is the The reduced number of pa tients, Mr. doomsayers and naysayers. Speaker, is very evident. Obviously, it is day to day and week to week, but we have seen an incredible substantial reduction in what was It is incredible when we see the potential fo r termed the hallway health care division of Manitoba that we have seen in the last little members opposite. Today I believe there are while. In the last year, in fact in the last fe w zero people in the hallways. It is something that months in and around the Brandon areaalone we our health care minister should be quite proud have seen expansion in the Albchem plant in of. Last year at this same time there were more, moving to the Wallace community just outside and the year previous to that there were just of Virden. It is a $40-million investment within about three times the amount. our province. They are moving here from Alberta. Often I hear the members opposite The streamlining costs I had mentioned in telling us that there is business and people the Winnipeg Health Authority, some $800,000 pulling out of Manitoba. I see an investment in savings, was done very quickly by our there of $40 million in a benefit, in a Manitoba December 12, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 237 advantage that we have in our hydroelectric We are hearing it from the banks. We are power here in the province of Manitoba. hearing it from Wall Street. We are hearing it in our bond rating. We are hearing it continually, * (17:40) although the member from Fort Whyte would like to bury his head in the sand. I am not sure he We see a $55-million expansion announce­ has got over the election. It is just unfortunate ment just recently on a sodium-chloride plant in that we have that type of a naysayer and Nexen, in Brandon. It is incredible that again is a doomsayer here in the House. We know full well plant that is combining. It is moving its that the advantages here in Manitoba abound. operations out of Alberta and combining and expanding its operations in Brandon. I would like to move to some of the reasons we are seeing some of that economic boom and initiative here in our province, and that again is We are seeing another corporation and in our education. The corporations, when they company from Medicine Hat that is looking at relocate or they move to different areas, I can tell expanding to Manitoba. Obviously the you from being in an economic development advantages with the hydroelectric rates that we board in Brandon, understanding full well that have here are of benefit to that corporation as there are many reasons that companies will well. It is a company that manufactures in steel relocate and businesses will locate into a production. In fact, it has been in Alberta in the province. But many times it is fo r the quality of same location for I 03 years and now sees the life that is initiated within that jurisdiction. I can advantage of moving to Manitoba, an incredible tell you that educational opportunities for bottom-line advantage to moving to our fa milies are high on a priority list of relocations province. There are some 200 jobs that are a of businesses into provinces. You have got potential there into Manitoba. community safety that this Government takes very, very seriously. There are initiatives in there We are seeing other companies. Today we through our Minister of Justice (Mr. saw an announcement-the member opposite Mackintosh) that are coming up in the next from Portage should be very happy at the session. There is the labour fo rce, which is announcement of Simplot chemical company. It critical to business expansion and some of the is a company that I know well in Brandon, a businesses that move and relocate. Obviously, producer that employs some 240 people looking the educational ability fo r trained labour here in at setting up a manufacturing plant with the Manitoba is a fo cus and a commitment by this future in potato production in the Portage area of Government in expanding Red River some 250 new additional jobs. Not only that, it is Community College. The expansion that we some 500 jobs that should probably hit the farm have seen there over the last year is gate. There should be some spin-off out of that, unprecedented in this province. We are seeing which is excellent for rural Manitoba and very the expansion of a trained workforce in higher good for Portage and area. In fact, it will come education, secondary education, in our all the way to Winnipeg. universities now with the incentives and initiatives that our Minister of Education (Mr. The potential here in Manitoba is obviously Caldwell) and this Government have put forth. something that is alive and well in Manitoba. We are seeing funding back to our educational There are corporations and companies moving in system. a big way to Manitoba. I am seeing the expansion of many small businesses. Small When the members opposite talk about businesses-! say companies with 25 employees taxation, they have one narrow view and bottom or less. The expansion in the Brandon area has line fo r some of the people that they answer to. been alive and well. I am seeing it here in Unfortunately, the member from Kirkfield had Winnipeg. I am hearing it at meetings that I am mentioned that he had worked with many people having with the Chamber of Commerce, a in some of the smoky backrooms of Brian positive attitude that they have here in the Mulroney's cabinet that had a vision. Their province with this Government. vision was to have taxation cut for industry, 238 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 12, 2000 which is always something that is nice. There is speaking yesterday, had mentioned that it would more of a vision, and I guess he mentioned it is be nice to get together on this issue and, if we utopian in our nature to think that there are other could work together, we could make great advantages. strides. I will agree with that. I will say that it would be nice if we would work toward the Members fr om the opposite side benefit of our rural neighbours. Certainly I downloaded educational costs onto would say, and I think we would all agree in this municipalities. It was unfortunate when we saw House, that the fe deral policies in terms of in Brandon, in '97, '96 and '95, double-digit agriculture support are a national disgrace. We increases in our educational costs because of the have tried to bring that message loud and clear. underfunding to the educational system. They do Federally, I know our Minister of Agriculture not like to mention those types of costs to people (Ms. Wowchuk) acted very quickly when we and people relocating to this province, but I can went in last year taking that message straight to tell you that is a fo cus, that it is a commitment Ottawa on a number of occasions. You worked for this Government to fu nd the educational with some of the fo lks on the Brandon Chamber system to the levels that it should be funded at of Commerce, with the Premier (Mr. Doer). In and relieve the pressure off some of the local fact, the member opposite from Arthur-Virden municipalities and the fo lks that work so hard in (Mr. Maguire) went to try to carry that message. the school boards to try to keep costs in line. Downloading our responsibilities as a province * (17:50) onto them is not a focus that this Government wants to take. But we all must agree, as well, that the fe deral commodity price support program in The costs in tu1t10n in Assiniboine Canada, and certainly in Manitoba and western Community College, I can certainly speak fo r, in Canada, for our producers is shameful. The Brandon, went up over 214 percent from '89 to farmers here, and the Member fo r Russell (Mr. '99. It went up about 180 percent, tuition, in a Derkach), I believe, yesterday had mentioned, decade under the members opposite from '89 to and I do agree, that farmers do not like to have '99, and this Government has given a cost to operate on subsidies. They certainly do not reduction of 10 percent in our first year, which like to consider it a handout. That is very true, gives I guess, again, that Utopian vision that the but when you have competing in the global Member for Kirkfield Park (Mr. Murray) spoke marketplace that we are in, certainly in the about of everybody having the ability to take grains market, we are seeing subsidies here in advantage of secondary education and our Canada stay at 9 cents on the dollar where you Government acting, not giving lip service but are competing against Americans at around 40 actually acting on it, and taking strides toward it. cents and into Europe that is rising. I am not sure what it is this week. It was 57 cents. It was up to The member opposite from Kirkfield Park 60 cents and may well be more. again mentioned the obvious deficit that this Government has seen in infrastructure, the Our farmers certainly have the best practices infrastructure deficit, the $250 billion in in the world in grains. They have proven it over infrastructure deficit that was left by this and over again in their practices. But when you previous government that we are starting to base it in terms of average yields, standard costs address. Our minister has put substantial funding of production per unit in the grains is certainly a into the infrastructure of our facilities, and that is losing proposition now trying to compete against a direction we will continue to head into. the commodity influx that we are competing against in some of the other G-7 nations. There Mr. Speaker, I would like to speak just is no way that we are going to be able to do it. quickly on some of the vision for rural Manitoba We need the federal support on the program. and some of the commitment that this Everyone in this House would agree with that. It Government has taken in that direction with our is a matter of how we approach it, how we get Throne Speech and one we will continue to take. together, and we do have to convince the federal I must admit, one of the members opposite, in government that they have to commit to our December 12, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 239

agricultural producers like the rest of the world The new · crop insurance and the reduced and the markets that we are in. premiums to assist farmers facing continued low prices fo r grains and oilseeds will be a The province in the last two years has commitment. I mentioned potatoes earlier. When experienced a disaster in southwestern Manitoba you have input costs on grains of $150 per acre, that we were at the table fo r. They would not you are not even getting your input costs out. come fo rward on a 90-10 split which should Moving to potatoes, $1,400 for the same acre have been the case. They should have been strikes me as a good move forward. It is coming up with 99 cents to 1 cent. For every diversification that is doable, possible, and we penny we put in, they should have been putting will support these visions and these efforts fo r in 9. our farming community and farming families and people in our rural economy. The visions of I will tell you, Mr. Speaker, it is something filling a truckload of pork for $90,000 as that we have to continue to pound. It is opposed to a truckload of grain is also a good something that we were there for the producers; diversification in pork production in this and we were there for a 90-1 0; we were there for province. We support the livestock industry a 50-50; we were there for 60-40, but some of which is very strong now however has hurt the members opposite seem to forget that when many of the producers because of the AIDA this was brought up in the House certainly by system we have. We recognize that. We realize one of the federal members of the Conservative that and believe that there is a better form that Party from Brandon area, the MP Rick Borotsik, has to be brought fo rth provincially and by the the answer was no, no, no. Unfortunately I heard fe deral government. that same member on a radio program with Mr. Harvard and the member from Emerson We have moved to equalize the rural and suddenly forgot that ever happened. We were at northern hydro rates. Again that is a benefit to the table. We will continue to be at the table, and our rural communities and improve the they can misconstrue or move toward falsifying infrastructure fo r our rural communities with a some of the information that is put forward $177 -million budget in construction, road anyway they like, but the simple fact is that we maintenance, and bridges. We have moved were there, we are there now, but Manitobans fo rward. want to hold us accountable. People hold us accountable. The minister of natural resource in the Throne Speech has moved fo rward with a As our minister has mentioned, it would be a commitment, the hiring of more staff to look at disaster to set a precedent of moving out and the problems we have with water in our paying the federal responsibility, the fe deral communities. I know the members opposite have government's share, and it would be spoken to it, unfortunately not a lot done about it irresponsible, and we are not about to do that. in a number of years. There was not a lot done We need the federal government in there. We about it in years to that. We have a big job, as will be there. We continue to be there, and our the minister has mentioned. We have willows minister has stated that over and over again. We growing out of culverts. We have some of the have been there with $70 million to the farmers drainage that has been blown in, sand dunes and that have been hit by the rains and the flooding drifts off the farming fields that diverted the in the area, and we will continue to be there with water. We have to invest more money into that. our dollars when the federal governmentgets off It is a commitment we have made. It is a their duff and takes their responsibility seriously commitment we will keep. It is working with and treats us like they treated the rest of Canada. AMM. It is working with the rural communities and working with our Government towards that The Throne Speech speaks of Project 2000, issue to address that matter. and we have committed to easing the transition from farming to retirement, enabling younger It is a big undertaking. I am sure the generations to move into agriculture. This is an members opposite will assist us in the important step and it is an important process. endeavours with some of the knowledge that 240 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 12, 2000 they have. The Member fo r Russell (Mr. munity they have been very, very pleased with Derkach), the Member fo r Emerson (Mr. Jack the vision and the direction that we have set with Penner), certainly have mentioned, and I am sure our Throne Speech. The members opposite I others will, that they want to see some headway know will certainly do their job as Opposition to in that area. Our side wants to see headway in point out direction or in their opinion that area. I believe it is something we can work misdirection. I am sure they will agree that a on together. Some ofthe members are indicating vision fo r all Manitobans and every single that there are a lot of costs and a lot of dollars in person in Manitoba is a priority. doing that. I will certainly agree it cannot be done overnight, but I believe the initiative is I thank you, Mr. Speaker, fo r the time to put there, the commitment is there, and we will those words on record. move in that direction.

Having only two minutes, I would just like Mr. Glen Cummings (Ste. Rose): Is it the will to wrap up in saying that the future looks bright to call it six o'clock, Mr. Speaker? for Manitoba. The Throne Speech speaks not to all the things we will do. Certainly in the next Mr. Speaker: Is it the will of the House to call it year, in the Budget that is coming up in the six o'clock? [A greed] spring, the agenda is set and the vision is set. In a Throne Speech, of course, it is not set to exclude or eliminate any of the other programs When this matter is again before the House, that we will be fo llowing up on in Manitoba but the honourable Member fo r Ste. Rose will have certainly a vision for a brighter future fo r 40 minutes remaining. Manitoba. The hour being 6 p.m., this House is Manitobans have responded very favourably adjourned and stands adjourned until 1 :30 p.m. to the last 14 months, and certainly in my com- tomorrow (Wednesday). LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA

Tuesday, December 12, 2000

CONTENTS

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS Annual Report of the Status of Women fo r the Presenting Petitions fiscalyear ending March 31, 2000 McGiffo rd 192 Health Centre Driedger 191 Annual Report of the Manitoba Women's Advisory Council for the fiscal year ending Reading and Receiving Petitions March 31, 2000 McGifford 192 Health Centre Driedger 191 Manitoba Lotteries Corporation, Quarterly Report, Six Months, April 1, 2000 to Tabling of Reports September 30, 2000 McGifford 192 Annual Report of The. Trade Practices Inquiry Act for the period ending December 5, 2000 Annual Report of the Department of Aboriginal Lemieux 191 and NorthernAf fairs fo r the fiscalyear ending March 31, 2000 Robinson 192 Annual Report of the Department of Culture, Heritage and Tourism fo r the fiscal year ending March 31, 2000 Introduction of Bills McGifford 192 Bill 9-The Vital Statistics Amendment and Consequential Amendments Act Annual Report of the Manitoba Arts Council Lemieux 192 fo r the fiscal year ending March 31, 2000 McGiffo rd 192 Oral Questions Annual Report of the Manitoba Seniors Budget Directorate fo r the fiscal year ending Murray; Friesen 192 March 31, 2000 McGifford 192 Public Housing Reimer; Sale 194 Annual Report of the Manitoba Lotteries Corporation fo r the fiscal year ending March 31, 2000 Aboriginal Child and Family Services McGiffo rd 192 Cummings; Sale 195 Manitoba Liquor Control Commission, Health Care System Quarterly Report, Six Months, April 1, 2000 Maguire; Chomiak 196 to September 30, 2000 McGiffo rd 192 Livestock Stewardship Initiative Manitoba Liquor Control Commission, Jack Penner; Lathlin; Barrett 197 Quarterly Report, Three Months, April I, 2000 to June 30, 2000 Knapp Dam and Pump Station McGifford 192 Gerrard; Lathlin 198 Income Assistance St. James Senior Centre Martindale; Sale 198 Rondeau 202

Minister of Conservation Tuxedo Constituency Seniors Residences Enns; Lathlin 199 Stefanson 202

Water Resources Bethesda Foundation Enns; Lathlin 199 Jim Penner 202 Cummings; Lathlin 200 ORDERS OF THE DAY Assiniboine River Advisory Committee Cummings; Lathlin 200 Throne Speech Debate Derkach; Lathlin 200 (FifthDay of Debate)

Members' Statements Lemieux 203 Loewen 204 Helen Betty Osborne Foundation Caldwell 212 Jennissen 201 Stefanson 219 Lathlin 222 Fort Garry Mall Walking Program Gilleshammer 226 J. Smith 201 S. Smith 233