MACKENZIE VALLEY PIPELINE INQUIRY

IN THE MATTER OF THE APPLICATIONS BY EACH OF

(a) CANADIAN ARCTIC GAS PIPELINE LIMITED FOR A RIGHT-OF-WAY THAT MIGHT BE GRANTED ACROSS CROWN LANDS WITHIN THE YUKON TERRITORY AND THE NORTHWEST TERRITORIES, and

(b) FOOTHILLS PIPE LINES LTD. FOR A RIGHT-OF-WAY THAT MIGHT BE GRANTED ACROSS CROWN LANDS WITHIN THE NORTHWEST TERRITORIES FOR THE PURPOSE OF A PROPOSED MACKENZIE VALLEY PIPELINE

and

IN THE MATTER OF THE SOCIAL, ENVIRONMENTAL AND ECONOMIC IMPACT REGIONALLY OF THE CONSTRUCTION. OPERATION AND SUBSEQUENT ABANDONMENT OF THE ABOVE PROPOSED PIPELINE

(Before the Honourable Mr. Justice Berger, Commissioner)

Toronto, Ontario May 26, 1976

PROCEEDINGS AT COMMUNITY HEARING

Volume 59

The 2003 electronic version prepared from the original transcripts by Allwest Reporting Ltd. Vancouver, B.C. V6B 3A7 Canada Ph: 604-683-4774 Fax: 604-683-9378 www.allwestbc.com APPEARANCES

Mr. Ian G. Scott, Q.C. Mr. Ian Waddell, and Mr. Ian Roland for Mackenzie Valley Pipeline Inquiry

Mr. Pierre Genest, Q.C. and Mr. Darryl Carter, for Canadian Arctic Gas Pipeline Lim- ited;

Mr. Alan Hollingworth and Mr. John W. Lutes for Foothills Pipe- lines Ltd.;

Mr. Russell Anthony and Pro. Alastair Lucas for Canadian Arctic Resources Committee

Mr. Glen Bell, for Northwest Territo- ries Indian Brotherhood, and Metis Association of the Northwest Territories. WITNESSES: Monte HUMMEL 6390 Alfred POWIS 6397 William H. DALTON 6402 C. Norman ZLOTKIN 6407 J.R. MEAKES 6418 R. Glen CAUGHEY 6425 Miss Shelley ACHESON 6430 Rev. Morley CLARKE, Rev. Glen WRIGHT 6444 Terry GREEN 6448 William KASHTON 6453 F.R. JONES 6464 Donald MacKAY 6470 Douglas MATTHEWS 6487 Patrick SCOTT 6505 Charles GODFREY 6513 Matthew EDWARDS 6517 Garry LOEB 6526 Dr. Douglas PIMLOTT 6530 Richard BROUGHTON 6537 Michael ABRAMSKY 6540 Miss Winona GALLOP, David POWELL 6542 Ronald S. LOUGHEED 6548 Miss Anna BULPITT Miss Mary GUNN 6554 John A. OLTHUIS, Gerald VANDEZANDE 6559 Quinto FERRI 6568 Leroy LITTLE BEAR 6573 George AKULA 6590 Miss Marisa NICHINI 6593 C.K. KALEVAR 6604 EXHIBITS C-439 Submission by Pollution Probe - M. Hummel 6397 C-440 Submission by Noranda Mines - A. Powis 6402 C-441 Submission by Canadian Gas Association - W.H. Dalton 6407 C-442 Submission by Law Union of Ontario et al. - N. Zlotkin 6418 C-443 Submission by Ontario Chamber of Commerce - J.R. Meakes 6424 C-444 Submission by Union Gas - R.G. Caughey 6430 C-445 Submission by Ontario Federation of Labor - Miss S. Acheson 6442 C-446 Submission of London Conference United Church of Canada - Clarke & Wright 6448 C-447 Submission by Communist Party of Canada - W. Kashton 6464 C-448 Submission of S. Dewdney 6464 C-449 Submission of Ruth Stuart 6464 C-450 Submission of Kapuskasing Industrial Committee 6464 C-451 Submission of Steep Rock Iron Mines - F.R. Jones 6470 C-452 Law Union of Ontario et al - D.C.Matthews 6503 C-453 Submission of Ontario Chamber of Commerce - D. MacKay 6486 C-454 Chart - M. Edwards 6526 C-455 Submission of People or Planes - C. Godfrey 6517 C-456 Submission of Canadian Council of Liberal Congregations - M. Abramsky 6541 C-457 Submission of Joyce Young 6542 C-458 Submission of Spadina-Bloor-Bathurst Interchurch Council 6542 C-459 Submission by Consumers Gas Company - R.S. Lougheed 6554 C-460 Submission of C.J.L. Foundation - Olthuis & Vandezande 6568 C-461 Submission by Interchurch World Development Study Group - Q. Fern 6571 C-462 Submission by L. Little Bear 6590 C-463 Submission of Core Committee for World Peace & Development - Miss N. Nichini 6613 C-464 Submission of C.K. Kalevar 6612 Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6381

1 Toronto, Ontario 2 May 26, 1976. 3 (PROCEEDINGS RESUMED PURSUANT TO ADJOURNMENT) 4 THE COMMISSIONER: Well, 5 ladies and gentlemen, I'll ask that our hearing come to 6 order this morning. 7 The Mackenzie Valley Pipeline 8 Inquiry is holding hearings in the main centres of 9 Southern Canada to consider what people who live hare 10 in Southern Canada have to say about the proposal to 11 build a Mackenzie Valley Pipeline. 12 There are two companies that 13 are competing for the right to build a pipeline to bring 14 natural gas from the Arctic to markets in Southern Canada 15 and the United States, One of these companies. 16 Arctic Gas, proposes to bring 17 natural gas from Prudhoe Bay along a pipeline route that 18 would extend across the Arctic coast of the Yukon 19 Territory and then across the mouth of the Mackenzie 20 Delta. There the line from Alaska would join a line 21 carrying gas from the Mackenzie Delta and then the main 22 trunk pipeline carrying Alaskan gas and gas from the 23 Mackenzie Delta would travel along the route to the 24 Mackenzie River south carrying Canan gas to Canadians in 25 Southern Canada, and Alaskan gas to American markets in 26 the lower 48. 27 The Foothills proposal is to 28 build a pipeline that would simply carry Canadian gas 29 from the Mackenzie Delta south along the Mackenzie River 30 to Alberta, and there the pipeline would join the Alberta Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6382

1 Gas Trunk Line system and gas would be fed into the 2 Westcoast system in B.C., the Alberta system and into the 3 TransCanada Pipeline for delivery to Eastern Canada. 4 Now, this Inquiry has been 5 considering the impact of these pipeline proposals at 6 hearings in Northern Canada for 14 months, There we 7 have held formal hearings where we listened to the 8 views of experts -- experts from the industry, from the 9 government, from the universities. There we provide an 10 opportunity for lawyers who represent the two companies 11 that want to build the pipeline, the native 12 organizations, the environmentalists, northern 13 municipalities and northern business to cross-examine 14 the experts. Witnesses are called from all over the 15 country and from the United States and elsewhere to 16 discuss northern conditions and the northern 17 environment. 18 At the same time the Inquiry 19 has been to 28 cities, towns, villages, settlements and 20 outposts in the Canadian north, communities where the 21 people who live in the north spend their lives white 22 people, native people, the people whose lives will be 23 most affected if a pipeline is built; and we have been 24 to all of those communities so that those people 25 can tell us what their own life and their own 26 experience lead them to believe the impact of a 27 pipeline will be. 28 We have been examining the 29 impact on the northern environment. The Northern Yukon 30 is the habitat of one of the last great herds of Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6383

1 caribou in North America. There is a population of 2 5,000 white whales in the Beaufort Sea that come into 3 the Mackenzie Delta each summer to have their young. 4 The Mackenzie Delta and the perimeter of the Beaufort 5 Sea are the breeding and staging areas: for millions 6 of birds that fly north from all over the Western 7 Hemisphere each spring. All of these environmental 8 considerations are before the Inquiry. We're wrestling 9 with the question: Can we proceed with pipelines and 10 oil and gas development and still enable these species 11 to survive? 12 We're examining the question 13 whether the land claims of the native peoples of the 14 north -- Indian, Metis and Inuit -- should be settled 15 as the native peoples of the north urge, before a 16 pipeline is built. We're considering the question, if 17 a pipeline is built, how can native peoples and other 18 northerners be enable to find meaningful employment on 19 the pipeline? How can they develop skills that will be 20 of use to themselves and to the north after pipeline 21 construction is over? We have been looking at the 22 question: Bow can northern business be enabled to 23 obtain contracts and sub-contracts from the pipeline? 24 What about the unions? What measure of control should 25 they have over pipeline construction? What about the 26 impacts on Municipal Government in the north? The 27 increased cost of police and fire and local services 28 that will ensue if a pipeline boom takes place in the 29 north,-- we are examining all of these questions and 30 we're here spending a month, after 14 months in the Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6384

1 north we're spending a month in the main centres of 2 Southern Canada to see what you think about all of 3 this. 4 I think I should just say 5 that the Federal Government in the pipeline guidelines 6 that were tabled in the House of Commons has made it 7 plain that we are not to consider this proposed gas 8 pipeline in isolation; we are to proceed on the 9 assumption that if a gas pipeline is built, then an oil 10 pipeline will follow. So what we have under 11 consideration is an energy corridor bringing fossil 12 fuels from the Arctic to the mid-continent, and it is 13 the social, economic, and environment impact of that 14 proposed energy corridor that is under consideration at 15 this Inquiry. 16 The questions of gas supply, how 17 much gas is there in the Mackenzie Delta and the Beaufort 18 Sea, questions of Canada' s own gas requirements. 19 What volumes of gas will 20 Canadians require in the years that lie ahead, 21 questions relating to export of gas, all of those are 22 matters for the National Energy Board of Canada. 23 Finally, it will, be for the 24 Government of Canada, when all is said and done, to 25 decide whether a pipeline should be built and an energy 26 corridor established, The Government of Canada will have 27 the report of this Inquiry, which will deal with the 28 impact on Northern Canada of the building of the gas 29 pipeline and the establishment of an energy corridor; 30 it will have the report of the National Energy Board Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6385

1 dealing with Canada's gas supply and gas requirements, 2 and then weighing up all of those considerations it. 3 will he for, the government, the people elected to 4 govern, the people-elected-to make decisions on these 5 questions of high national policy to decide what is to be 6 done. 7 At any rate, we :are here to 8 give you, whose patterns of energy consumption and 9 whose appetite for oil and gas have given rise to 10 proposals to bring fossil fuels from the Arctic, an 11 opportunity to make your own contribution to this 12 process. 13 I think that I perhaps should 14 add that throughout this Inquiry's hearings in 15 Northern. Canada a unit of broadcasters from the 16 C.B.C. has been broadcasting each evening for 4n-hour 17 over the C.B.C.'s northern network to people throughout 18 the north in English and the native languages, and 19 those broad-. casters are accompanying the Inquiry on 20 its -tour of Southern Canada this month, and 21 broadcasting each evening over, the Northern Network to 22 the people of the north about the things that have been 23 said at these hearings in southern centres as we move 24 across the country. Those broadcasters who are with us 25 today are Whit Fraser, who broadcasts in English; Jim 26 Sittichinli, who broadcasts in Loucheux; Joe Toby, who 27 broadcasts in Chipewyan and Dogrib; Louis Blondin, who 28 broadcasts in Slavey; and Abe Okpik, who broadcasts in 29 Eskimo. 30 I'll ask Mr. Goudge to outline Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6386

1 our procedure this morning. 2 MR. GOUDGE: yes, sir. I 3 should say first that the procedures we propose to 4 follow has been agreed to by all the full-time 5 participants who are participating before you in the 6 Inquiry as it conducts its hearings at Yellowknife, and 7 they are obviously designed to allow as full a 8 participation by those who wish to say something here to 9 you as is possible, given the exigencies of time. 10 11 The Inquiry advertised some 12 time ago in the major papers across Southern Canada and 13 asked for written briefs to be filed with the Inquiry 14 office in Ottawa by May 1st. That was to allow us to 15 plan the time we have available in Southern Canada in 16 the most efficient way, and those who responded from 17 Ontario have been scheduled here over the 3 1/2 days we 18 propose to sit in Toronto by Mr. Waddell. Any of those 19 who did not file briefs with our office in Ottawa but 20 wish to make submissions would be advised to speak to 21 Mr. Waddell, who is seated on my right, and I know he'll 22 do his best to fit you into the schedule we have here. 23 It may not be possible. We have had a long list of 24 participants who are anxious to speak in Toronto, but 25 Mr. Waddell will do his best. 26 The procedures are really very 27 simple. The first we propose is that there be no cross- 28 examination of people delivering briefs at these 29 hearings, but if it should appear desirable that there 30 be further questioning of the people giving evidence Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6387

1 here, we will attempt to arrange that that be done at a 2 mutually convenient time and place. 3 The second is that we've agree 4 I that the full-time participants before your Inquiry 5 will have the opportunity at the end of the session to 6 respond briefly to what has been said here today. 7 Thirdly, we will ask each 8 witness to take the oath or to affirm. This is the 9 procedure that we have followed in the north, and it's 10 indicative, I think, of the importance that the Inquiry 11 places on what is said here. 12 Those are the procedures, sir. 13 Now I'll ask Mr. Waddell if he will, call the witnesses 14 MR. WADDELL: Mr. 15 Commissioner. on the list of briefs this morning we 16 have Pollution Probe, Noranda Mines, the Canadian Gas 17 Association, Mr. Norman Zlotkin representing a number 18 of groups, the Interior Chamber of Commerce, Union Gas, 19 the Ontario Federation of Labour, the London Conference 20 of the United Church of Canada, Mr. Patrick Scott, and 21 Miss Joyce Young. So we'll get going on that list. 22 I would call first Mr. Monte 23 Hummel, who is with Pollution Probe. 24 25 MONTE HUMMEL sworn: 26 THE WITNESS: Thanks very 27 much. Good morning. 28 In the past, Pollution Probe 29 has spoken up fairly often about the environmental 30 impacts of the Mackenzie Valley Pipeline. I hope the Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6388

1 Commission will not be disappointed if we don't focus on 2 this again today. Frankly, we don't have anything new 3 to say along these lines. We feel that environmental 4 concerns have been acknowledged as having a much higher 5 priority now than five or six years ago, and the 6 Beaufort Sea decision notwithstanding, we intend to make 7 sure that government, industry, and all parties involved 8 are committed to preparing high quality environmental 9 impact statements before physically intervening in the 10 Arctic and sub-Arctic environments. 11 12 The other point we have 13 raised repeatedly in the past is the need for 14 extensive public participation leading to local and 15 broadbased consensus about how, when, or whether the 16 pipeline should be built, This still concerns us, 17 though the establishment of these hearings and the way 18 they have been conducted are a very positive move on 19 the part of the Federal Government. However, we are 20 uneasy about three matters: 21 • that approval might be given or construction begin 22 before native land claims have been resolved; 23 • or before this Commission's recommendations are 24 submitted; 25 • or before the National Energy Board hearings have been 26 completed. In the haste to get moving with the 27 pipeline, all three of these possibilities have been 28 hinted at, and we would be absolutely opposed to any 29 step in this direction. 30 We obviously still feel Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6389

1 strongly about these points, but what I've said so far, 2 we've really said before. For the rest of my brief, 3 then, I would like to outline some of the more recent- 4 concerns we've had. You'll notice that these concerns 5 have led us to ask not how the project might go ahead, 6 or how it might be modified to meet various social or 7 environmental factors, but whether it should be built at 8 all. 9 Perhaps this over-simplifies 10 the matter but we still can't get a straight answer to 11 this question: Why risk the social and environmental 12 fabric of the Arctic for what is at best only an interim 13 solution to our energy problems? 14 THE COMMISSIONER: What was 15 the question again? 16 A The operative word? 17 Q Yes, what was the 18 operative word? 19 A "Interim". 20 Why risk the social and 21 environmental fabric of the Arctic for what at best is 22 only an interim solution to our energy problems? The 23 pipeline has no long-term potential whatsoever, In fact 24 it only delays taking more meaningful steps to ensure 25 that we have an adequate supply of energy. We haven't 26 found anyone who disagrees with this, including 27 government energy planners and some senior executives of 28 Canada's energy and resource industries. In light of 29 this, I would have thought that this pipeline, along 30 with many other northern oil and gas developments, Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6390

1 would be proposed as tentative or holding pattern kinds 2 of strategies, transitional strategy, a sort of holding 3 pattern or in-between step allowing us to get down to 4 the more long-term job. of planning and implementing a 5 more lasting solution based on more efficient renewable 6 forms of energy. Yet We haven't seen one shred of this 7 kind of thinking, not from the industry (at least not 8 publicly stated) and not from the public statements of 9 our Federal Government, especially in its latest energy 10 policy statement, It seems to us that Canadians would be 11 foolish to undertake a project of this size without a 12 clear understanding of where it fits in in these terms, 13 In other words,. let's hear where it fits in, and then 14 decide whether it makes sense to go ahead. Or more 15 strongly put, what business do we have contemplating 16 going ahead without knowing where it fits in? Our hunch 17 is that when you think backwards, that is when you look 18 at where our society wants to be with respect to energy 19 supply by say 2025, and consider what must be done now 20 to make sure that we get there, then the Mackenzie 21 Valley Pipeline may not fit in at all. 22 23 A second concern is that this 24 scheme fuels a demand for energy which is irresponsible 25 and must be reexamined, especially here in the south 26 where the largest part of that demand originates. It 27 would be a difficult matter it would be a different 28 matter if we were using our current supplies wisely and 29 efficiently with serious efforts at energy 30 conservation, but we aren't. Pollution Probe can't Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6391

1 understand an energy strategy that proposes to give 2 more pablum to an overweight baby who's throwing what 3 he's already got all over the floor, especially when 4 he's old enough to learn not to overeat in the first 5 place and eat what he does get properly. To add insult 6 to injury, proposals like the Mackenzie Valley Pipeline 7 ask us to worsen our net energy ratio., that is to 8 invest more and more energy for each B.T.U. which we 9 get back, or use. Until we remedy both of these 10 situations and begin to set our own house in order, I 11 certainly wouldn't want to have to explain to 12 northerners that we in the south need the Mackenzie 13 Valley Pipeline. 14 15 A third and related concern is 16 that it's now clear that it costs less to save energy, 17 thereby knocking back demand, than it does to increase 18 supply by the same amount, Why not do the same amount of 19 work with less energy and have some left over for new 20 demands, especially when that strategy costs 21 substantially less than continuing to waste what we now 22 use while looking for additional supplies through 23 projects like the Mackenzie Valley Pipeline? Everyone 24 agrees that we're wasting energy. Both the Science 25 Council of Canada and the Office of Energy Conservation 26 have undisputed data on the economic advantage of the 27 conserving strategy over increasing supply. In other 28 words, we're not sure that Canadians would be following 29 their own best advice by undertaking the pipeline. 30 A fourth concern is that even Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6392

1 if the energy demand were justified, by building this 2 project we opt for one source of energy, namely gas, and 3 as you have said, an ensuing oil pipeline, without 4 having seriously explored the practicability of 5 alternative sources, particularly renewable sources such 6 as solar, wind and biomass. By heavily capitalizing the 7 more conventional sources, we are foreclosing the 8 development of renewable resources of energy this in the 9 face of worldwide acknowledgment of the fact that fossil 10 fuels have only short-term potential. Energy Probe's 11 preliminary research indicates that renewable forms of 12 energy are very practical for Canada, and that they are 13 more efficient because the energy source is closer to 14 the load and because they provide a greater form of 15 energy that more closely matches with end use. Also, we 16 suspect that renewable energy is now competitive and in 17 the future will undoubtedly he cheaper than conventional 18 sources, especially when costed over time and coupled 19 with meaningful conservation efforts. So even if we 20 leave aside the question of whether or not demands are 21 justified, which is probably more properly a question 22 for the National Energy Board, we must ask what 23 constitutes the best supply mechanism, whatever the 24 demand? In either case, we seriously question the value 25 of the Mackenzie Valley Pipeline. 26 27 A fifth concern is that we 28 have not yet priorized the various uses to which oil and 29 gas reserves might be put. On what rational basis, for 30 instance, have we decided that the best use of natural Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6393

1 gas is to simply burn it for its energy content? What 2 is the petrochemical and plastics applications for 3 petroleum derivatives? Pollution Probe doesn't know the 4 answer to this question. But who does? If the answer, 5 as we suspect, is "Nobody", then I repeat I wouldn't 6 want to have to explain why it is that we need the 7 Mackenzie Valley Delta gas now. 8 Perhaps our Sixth and final 9 concern is really lust a summary of what's already been 10 said here and by Energy Probe, It is that the Mackenzie 11 Valley Pipeline generally symbolizes in our judgment a 12 wrong-headed energy strategy. It accepts present 13 demand, trying to meet rather than question it. It's 14 enormously expensive. It has harmful social and 15 environmental impacts. It provides increased 16 centralization of energy technology 'with its attendant 17 wastage through transmission and technological 18 distancing in terms of public understanding. It has the 19 air of being pre-planned by industry and government, 20 then sprung on the Canadian public; and it is based on 21 nonrenewable resources, therefore posing no long,-term 22 solution to what is unquestionably a long-term problem. 23 In contrast, we think it's still within our grasp to 24 implement a very different strategy that is less 25 expensive, more efficient, decentralized, 26 understandable, low in environmental impact, less 27 demanding in terms of social adaptation, and based on 28 our energy income -- that is on renewable sources of 29 energy that are with us every day. 30 I'm sure you've noticed that Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6394

1 perhaps unlike the past, this brief has not been exactly 2 loaded down with numbers and statistics. Rather it has 3 tried to offer a plain-Stalk logical framework within 4 which anyone can ask, "Why build the Mackenzie Valley 5 Pipeline?" 6 That's not to say that we 7 don't have numbers and technical data on our side. In 8 fact, some of Pollution Probe's strongest supporters and 9 best advisers are senior energy experts within 10 government and industry, here, south of the border, and 11 abroad. But this brief reflects our belief that the 12 Mackenzie Valley Pipeline issue, and the string of 13 conventional energy developments waiting in its wake 14 will not be resolved so much by one man's numbers versus 15 another's, as by a sore deep-seated feeling for what 16 kind of future we want. 17 Thank you. 18 THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you, 19 Mr. Hummel. 20 (SUBMISSION BY POLLUTION PROBE M, HUMMEL MARKED EXHIBIT 21 C-439) 22 (WITNESS ASIDE) 23 MR. WADDELL: The next 24 presentation, sir, is from the president of Noranda 25 Mines, Mr. Alfred Powis. Mr. Powis, will you go up 26 there, please? 27 28 ALFRED POWIS sworn: 29 THE WITNESS: Mr. Commissioner, 30 Noranda Mines is a public company incorporated in the Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6395

1 Province of Ontario, and is engaged at various locations 2 throughout Canada, directly or through its subsidiaries 3 and associates, in mineral exploration and mining, 4 metallurgical processing, metal manufacturing, production 5 of chemicals and fertilizers, oil and gas exploration 6 and production, and forest products. Approximately 7 31,000 people are employed in the company's domestic 8 operations, 94% of our issued shares are held by 9 residents of Canada. 10 About 60% of annual sales 11 revenue of the Noranda group of companies is derived 12 from domestic markets, where we supply a wide range of 13 raw materials and secondary products to industrial 14 users, Sales of export products, including copper, | 15 zinc, potash, pulp and lumber, exceeded $460 million 16 in 1975. 17 As a major energy user the 18 equivalent of some 75 million cubic feet of gas a day, 19 Noranda is highly conscious of the need to maintain an 20 adequate supply of hydrocarbon fuels for all sectors 21 of the Canadian economy, both over the short and 22 longer term. Noranda is co-operating fully in joint 23 government-industry effort to promote conservation of 24 energy. Direct industry use of energy accounted for 25 about 40% of the total approximate 7,9 quadrillion 26 B.T.U.s consumed in Canada in 1975, the remaining 60% 27 meeting the needs for residential, commercial, and 28 transportation uses, it is still too early to 29 establish how effective energy conservation measures 30 will be in the industrial sector; current predictions Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6396

1 are for no greater than a 5 to 15% reduction in energy 2 consumption, if all waste is eliminated. 3 Even if this range of 4 conservation is achieved, or if it can be significantly 5 exceeded in the other user areas, it appears that energy 6 supplies available from all existing domestic sources 7 will be insufficient to meet requirements for reasonable 8 expansion of the Canadian economy through to 1990. 9 Therefore we believe even if 10 optimum results are achieved in the area of energy 11 conservation, significant new supplies of hydrocarbon 12 energy must be found, developed and transported to user 13 areas in order to maintain a healthy economy and 14 provide an adequate living standard for all Canadians. 15 Noranda is participating 16 directly in the search for new hydrocarbon reserves. 17 We have exploration and 18 production operations in the western provinces, and an 19 interest in an exploration program in the Arctic Islands. 20 However, with respect to the 21 proposed Mackenzie Valley Pipeline, this company has no 22 participation in any of the applicant groups, nor does 23 it hold gas reserves in the Mackenzie Delta or the 24 Beaufort Basin, Nevertheless, as a major energy user, 25 we support the view that all, new sources of future 26 energy supply should be made available without undue 27 delay. On the basis of information made available 28 to date, this pipeline appears to be justified from the 29 supply and techno-economic standpoints. Within the 30 scope of the hearing conducted before the National Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6397

1 Energy Board, Noranda Mines is registered as an 2 intervenor supporting Canadian Arctic Gas. 3 We are familiar with the 4 mandates of this Inquiry and we have no independent data 5 to submit on the issues raised in the Inquiry's hearings 6 to date. We feel obliged to comment, however, on the 7 suggestion put forth that the Mackenzie Valley Pipeline 8 be delayed until all matters are resolved to the 9 satisfaction of northern residents, We understand the 10 concern regarding the environmental and socioeconomic 11 impacts of this proposed pipeline on the north, 12 Nevertheless we hope that in addressing this particular 13 proposal, all parties involved recognize the points to 14 be resolved really apply to all forms of development in 15 the northern region. 16 Also, in any major 17 development undertaking, wherever located, there has to 18 be a certain amount of disruption and adjustment to new 19 conditions. We're confident that through the process 20 of this Inquiry adequate opportunities have been given 21 to arrive at an equitable solution, whereby this 22 pipeline could proceed with the least possible 23 disturbance to the environment, and result in 24 substantial socio-economic benefits to northern 25 residents, It appears to us that any decision involving 26 prolonged delay or indefinite deferral of the proposed 27 pipeline would not resolve the key issues involved in 28 all future development of the north. On the other 29 hand, this Inquiry represents an opportunity to help 30 solve these particular problems in a way that would be Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6398

1 immensely beneficial to the future of the northern 2 people. We fail to see why starting construction of 3 the Mackenzie Valley Pipeline should be dependent 4 upon the settlement of long-standing native land 5 claims. 6 Certainly there should be a 7 show of good faith by both the Government of Canada and 8 representatives of the native people. A discussion of 9 those claims should at least be started prior to 10 commencing pipeline construction. However, we can't see 11 the logic of delaying the pipeline until a final 12 settlement is reached, particularly when such a delay 13 could eventually prove to be highly detrimental to both 14 the northern and southern people of Canada. 15 We suggest that any 16 consideration of delaying the pipeline should give due 17 weight to the following points which affect the people 18 of Canada as a whole: 19 1. Despite all efforts toward energy conservation and 20 increasing supply of hydrocarbon fuels from existing 21 producing areas, it appears highly doubtful that 22 Canada can maintain adequate domestic supplies over 23 the next ten years without production from at least 24 one frontier area. if the Mackenzie Valley Pipeline 25 is unduly delayed, the country could be faced with a 26 prolonged energy shortage. 27 2. In the event of a form of energy rationing being 28 instituted to counteract the domestic supply shortfall 29 major industrial users would be forced to curtail 30 operations accordingly. The resulting reductions in Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6399

1 employment and production of goods would drastically 2 alter the living standard of all Canadians, and force 3 decreases in many export sales areas on which our 4 economy is highly dependent. 3. If an energy 5 shortage is to be rectified by increasing imports of 6 foreign crude oil, related effect on our balance of 7 payments and our currency exchange rates would add to 8 an adverse situation throughout the Canadian economy. 9 We're very grateful for this 10 opportunity to present our views here, Thank you. 11 (SUBMISSION BY NORANDA MINES A. POWIS MARKED EXHIBIT 12 C-440) 13 (WITNESS ASIDE) 14 MR. WADDELL: The next 15 brief, sir, is from Mr. W.H. Dalton, president of the 16 Canadian Gas Association. Mr. Dalton? 17 18 19 WILLIAM H. DALTON sworn: 20 THE WITNESS: The Canadian 21 Gas Association, formed in 1907, is the non-profit 22 national trade association representing 646 23 corporations and individuals drawn from every segment 24 of Canada's natural gas industry. 25 We are aware, sir, that the 26 terms of reference of your Inquiry are to study the 27 social, environmental and economic impact on the 28 Northwest Territories and the Yukon of the construction 29 operation and subsequent abandonment of any pipelines 30 from those regions to southern markets. In performing Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6400

1 your task, you have heard a considerable body of opinion 2 regarding all aspects of the impact of the development 3 of an energy corridor from the Arctic to the mid- 4 continent and the increased oil and gas exploration and 5 development that will result in the Mackenzie Valley, 6 the Mackenzie Delta and the Beaufort Sea. 7 These matters and others 8 within your terms of reference can have a profound 9 effect on, not only the northerners but all Canadians. 10 In considering ways to maximize the benefits of such 11 development for northerners and minimizing any 12 undesirable consequences, this Inquiry will be 13 directly involved in shaping the manner in which 14 Canada's gas reserves in the Mackenzie Delta area are 15 delivered to consumers in Southern Canada. 16 For this reason, as the national 17 trade association for the industry, we would like to very 18 briefly comment upon the natural gas industry and what 19 natural gas means to the Canadian way of life. 20 Eight million Canadians 21 today use natural gas in their homes to meet at least 22 part of their daily energy requirements. The vast 23 majority of these people are located in cities, towns 24 and hamlets scattered across Canada from British 25 Columbia to Quebec, although a few thousand people in 26 New Brunswick also use natural gas which is produced 27 in la small quantity within their province. 28 26% of all energy used in 29 Canada is, or is derived from, natural gas. Today the 30 use of this clean burning fuel exceeds the combined Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6401

1 consumption of coal, coke, hydro and nuclear electricity. 2 In short, natural gas has developed into an essential 3 fuel for Canada due in part to its pollution-free 4 characteristics, its safety, convenience and efficiency. 5 THE COMMISSIONER: You're 6 taking residential and industrial use into account in 7 making that comparison between the use of natural gas 8 and other fuels? 9 A I am, sir, yes. 10 Currently there are 11 2,100,000 households which are heated and otherwise 12 served by gas; twice the number of 15 years ago. In 13 addition, 220,000 commercial and institutional 14 customers use gas, while more than 15,000 industries 15 employ this fuel, many of them because it is the only 16 fuel they can use to produce the materials and 17 products in demand across the length and breadth of 18 the country and for export markets. 19 Collectively, these customers 20 paid more than $1.3 billion for the gas they consumed in 21 1975. Almost half of this was paid by industrial 22 customers, while residential users across the country 23 accounted for 'about one-third of these expenditures. 24 57% of the $1.3 billion outlay originated in Ontario. 25 One of the concerns which has 26 been mentioned in some quarters is the substantial year- 27 to-year increase in domestic gas consumption. For 28 example, the volume of gas purchased by Canadians has 29 quadrupled between 1960 and today. This has 30 precipitated some statements about wasteful consumption Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6402

1 of this premium fuel. The Canadian Gas Association 2 shares in this concern and we can assure you that our 3 members are vigorously pursuing research and development 4 and conservation programs aimed at the more efficient 5 utilization of natural gas. 6 However, it should be pointed 7 out that one of the chief reasons for this substantial 8 increase in gas consumption since western gas became 9 available nationally is simply that Canada's population 10 has enlarged considerably during the same period. There 11 are more people using more energy than ever before, and 12 a sizeable percentage of them are using natural gas. 13 The number of customers has doubled since 1960, and the 14 use of gas has gone up fourfold as these customers use 15 more gas appliances in their homes and factories. 16 Canada is one of the world 17 leaders in pipeline technology, and its 75,000 miles of 18 buried gas-gathering, transmission and distribution 19 lines rank in the forefront for safety, efficiency and 20 reliability. 21 Having mentioned at the outset 22 that the Canadian Gas Association is composed of all 23 sectors of the gas industry, we would like to stress that 24 our members include every major utility company in Canada 25 which collectively has the responsibility of delivering 26 this fuel within over 2,000 communities. Our member 27 companies have an unusually knowledgeable appreciation of 28 the gas requirements in these communities. They have 29 accordingly played a significant role in the formulation 30 of C.G.A.'s position with respect to the proposals for a Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6403

1 Mackenzie Valley natural gas Pipeline. 2 The Association has concluded 3 that there is an urgent need to connect the Mackenzie 4 Delta gas reserves to the market place at the earliest 5 possible moment, The C.G.A. is extremely disturbed by the 6 shortages which have been experienced in certain parts of 7 Canada, particularly in Winnipeg and Southwestern 8 Ontario. We view with alarm the effects this situation 9 might have on Canada if it is allowed to continue and 10 grow. While it does not support one of the applicants 11 now appearing now before the National Energy Board over 12 the other, the Canadian Gas Association strongly urges 13 the building of a pipeline to bring natural gas from the 14 Mackenzie Delta area to the Canadian markets as 15 economically and speedily as possible 16 Having said that, Mr. 17 Commissioner, we fully recognize the need for responsible 18 development of these northern resources -- development 19 which will serve the people of northern regions in 20 addition t6 those of us who already rely on supplies of 21 natural gas. The interests of development as it applies 22 to the people and environment of Northern Canada and the 23 interests of those of us who would use the energy for 24 which the pipeline is designed, are not mutually 25 exclusive. There is a great deal of interdependence, as 26 you have stated in the past, sir. 27 The Canadian Gas Association supports the building 28 of a pipeline to bring natural gas from the Mackenzie 29 Delta to market. We believe that with the cooperation 30 of industry, government and concerned groups and Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6404

1 organizations, the needs and aspirations of all 2 Canadians can be meaningfully met by this undertaking. 3 THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you, 4 Mr. Dalton. 5 (SUBMISSION BY CANADIAN GAS ASSOCIATION W.H. DALTON 6 MARKED EXHIBIT C-441) 7 (WITNESS ASIDE) 8 MR. WADDELL: Next, sir, is 9 Mr. Norman Zlotkin, who appears on behalf of the Law 10 Union of Ontario, the Native Studies Collective, the 11 Anti-Reed Group, and the Group to Arrest Dryden-Minimata 12 Disease. 13 NORMAN ZLOTKIN sworn: 14 THE WITNESS: Mr. 15 Commissioner, ladies and gentlemen, this submission is 16 being presented on behalf of four organizations: The 17 Law Union of Ontario, the Native Studies Collective, the 18 Anti-Reed Campaign, end the Group to. Arrest Dryden- 19 Minamata Disease. 20 The Law Union of Ontario, a 21 coalition of progressive lawyers, law students, and 22 legal workers, believes in the development of a 23 collective strategy for social change and in working as 24 an effective political and social force in the service 25 of the people. 26 The Native Studies Collective 27 is a group of people who are working together to develop 28 an analysis of the native movement within Canadian 29 society and who work with other organizations and 30 individuals on specific projects in support of native Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6405

1 peoples and their struggles for self-determination and 2 for control of their own lives. 3 The Anti-Reed Campaign was 4 formed by a group of individuals who are concerned about 5 the destruction caused by the activities of the Reed 6 Paper Company. Not only has Reed dumped hundreds of 7 tons of mercury into the rivers of the north, but also 8 it is planning to build the largest forestry complex in 9 Ontario, a project which threatens permanent damage to 10 thousands of square miles of northern forest -- the home 11 of native-peoples' and the wildlife they depend on. 12 The Group to Arrest Dryden 13 Minamata Disease was a co-sponsor and major organizer of 14 the visit of the Japanese victims of mercury poisoning 15 to Canada in September, 1975. It is currently 16 organizing a symposium at Habitat Forum in Vancouver on 17 the effects of mercury in Canada. 18 I myself am a lawyer working 19 with native people and native organizations in Northern 20 Ontario, including the Grand Council Treaty No. 9 (which 21 shall be making a submission in Ottawa) and the White 22 Dog and Grassy Narrows Band Councils. 23 Mr. Commissioner, the first part 24 of the Mackenzie Valley Pipeline Inquiry's mandate is, 25 "to consider the social, environmental and eco- 26 nomic impact regionally of the construction, 27 operation and subsequent abandonment of the 28 proposed natural gas pipeline in the Yukon and 29 the Northwest Territories." 30 Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6406

1 In predicting the impact of the proposed pipeline, it is 2 instructed to study the effects of similar developments 3 in other regions of Canada and the rest of the world, Mr. 4 Commissioner, as you have crossed the country, you have 5 heard many submissions describing the effects of develop- 6 ment imposed on native people, As I work .primarily with 7 native people in Northern Ontario, I will restrict my 8 comments to that region. 9 Like the Northwest Territories 10 Northern Ontario is an area o which little is known in 11 the south. When you say you are going up north, people 12 think of Muskoka or Haliburton; some even think of 13 Sudbury or Thunder Bay. But people do not think of Big 14 Trout Lake or Sandy Lake or Fort Albany or Ogoki, and 15 people do not think of the Ojibway and Cree people in 16 Northern Ontario. 17 There are many similarities 18 between Northern Ontario and the Northwest Territories. 19 By "Northern Ontario" I mean that area north of the 20 northern C.N.R. line, most of which lies within the 21 Treaty 9 area. Both cover huge expanses of Canada; 22 Northern Ontario covers 200,000 square miles. Both the 23 Northwest Territories and Northern Ontario contain many 24 native communities which are only accessible by air. 25 There are 30 such native communities in Northern 26 Ontario. In both regions, native people constitute the 27 majority of the population, and in both, English is not 28 spoken by the majority of that population, nor is 29 English the working language of the people. 30 Just as the Northwest Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6407

1 Territories may be seen as a colony of Canada with a 2 colonial form of government, Northern Ontario may be 3 seen as a colony of Southern Ontario with a form of 4 governmental control which is colonial in many aspects. 5 The Northwest Territories is governed by the central 6 government in Ottawa, thousands of miles away. 7 Decisions are made by colonial administrators of the 8 Department of Indian Affairs & Northern Development, who 9 have never been north of the Gatineau, and who dance to 10 the tune of multinational executives with whom they rub 11 elbows in the bars of the Chateau Laurier and the 12 Skyline Hotel. The elected Council of the Northwest 13 Territories is only an advisory body to the Commissioner 14 (the Canadian word for "colonial governor of the 15 Territories. All land use planning, exploration 16 permits, oil and gas leases and other such licences to 17 exploit the natural resources are granted from Ottawa. 18 There is very little local decision making. 19 The same may be said for 20 Northern Ontario, which is governed from Toronto, also 21 over 1,000 miles away. Instead of the Department of 22 Indian Affairs & 'Northern Development, we have the 23 Ministry of Natural Resources, the Ministry which 24 controls land and, resource development in Northern 25 Ontario, When the multinational corporations of the pulp 26 and paper and mining industries want licences to exploit 27 the resources of the land, they do not need the 28 permission of the local people, who are the native 29 people, but they obtain the consent of the colonial-like 30 bureaucrats of the ministry of Natural Resources in Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6408

1 Toronto. Just as, in the Territories, Northern Ontario 2 is governed to the benefit of southern interests. 3 Development for the benefit of 4 non-native interests can have a disastrous effect on 5 native people, even if that development appears to take 6 place some distance away from their communities. Now 7 the experience of White Dog and Grassy Narrows, 'two 8 reserves north of Kenora, graphically illustrates the 9 destructive effect of industrial expansion on native 10 economies. 11 White Dog is a community of 12 600, to which sportsmen once travelled from across North 13 America. Grassy Narrows, north-east of White Dog, has a 14 population of about 500. It is scattered across an area 15 where many streams and channels converge, where fish and 16 game could formerly be found in abundance. 17 20 miles north of White Dog 18 lies One Man Lake Reserve. The people who once lived 19 there are now at White Dog. Today One Man Lake is 20 populated by one old man, who is joined by a couple of 21 friends from time to time. Most of the area which was 22 once reserve land is now under water, and all that 23 remains of the reserve are three tiny islands and a 24 corner of the river shoreline. 25 Until 1958, One Man Lake was a 26 healthy community that was accessible only by boat or 27 plane, and had few white visitors, 16 families lived 28 there in the traditional way -- rice harvesting, 29 trapping and fishing were the main sources of cash 30 income. The land was rich and shortages were rare, Most Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6409

1 of the families had large gardens. Every family had at 2 least one boat for commercial fishing, as well a all the 3 necessary canoes, tools and equipment for hunting, 4 trapping, fishing and harvesting wild rice. There were 5 no serious so dial problems and, no need for welfare. 6 In the spring of 1959 and 7 almost without warning, the waters around the One Man 8 Lake settlement began to rise, and within a matter of 9 days, nearly everything was submerged, Ontario Hydro had 10 closed a new dam up downstream. The people lost almost 11 everything. They made their way to White Dog and 12 attempted to settle there, but the White Dog economy 13 could not support many additional people. After the 14 flooding the people discovered their old means of 15 livelihood had been destroyed. The rice beds and 16 trapping areas were submerged and it was impossible to 17 fish commercially because the lakes were full of debris. 18 This band lost its land and its livelihood, so that the 19 industries of Kenora could have cheap hydro power. The 20 effect of the hydro project also extended up-river to 21 the Grassy Narrows Reserve. There too, the commercial 22 fishery and the rice and fur crops were flooded out. 23 The damage is permanent. The changed water levels and 24 the natural fluctuations created by the power dam will 25 not allow creation of new rice beds or the 26 reestablishment of the beaver and muskrat, whose houses 27 are built at water level. 28 29 The economy of this reserve 30 was heavily damaged by Ontario Hydro. But ironically it Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6410

1 was not until 1975 that electricity was made available 2 to Grassy Narrows, and even then it was expensive and 3 difficult to obtain. 4 Even if the debris is ever 5 flushed out of the system, commercial fishing cannot be 6 re-established. The waters are poisoned with mercury 7 pollution and the fish have been declared unfit for 8 human consumption, Grassy Narrows and White Dog are the 9 two native communities which have been most affected by 10 the mercury pollution which contaminates the entire 11 English River-Winnipeg River systems, and probably 12 extends much further. Fish has always been an important 13 food source far these people and despite warnings, some 14 native people still eat the fish. When people have 15 barely enough to live on, they cannot eliminate the 16 chief available source of protein from their diet. 17 Mercury pollution has also 18 resulted in the loss of over 100 jobs for the people of 19 White Dog and Grassy Narrows, These people who had been 20 working as guides at tourist camps, lost their jobs when 21 the camps closed because of mercury in the fish. The 25 22 Indians still working at camps in the river system risk 23 contracting mercury poisoning or Minamata disease, for 24 they are forced to eat fish with the American tourists 25 every day or lose their jobs. 26 At the White Dog Reserve, 27 annual welfare payments went from $57,000 in 1959 to 28 almost triple that amount in 1974. At Grassy Narrows. 29 payments went from $29,000 in 1969 to $122,000 in 1973. 30 Unemployment is running over 80%. Furthermore, Minamata Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6411

1 disease or methyl-mercury poisoning, has begun to affect 2 the people of White Dog and Grassy Narrows. 3 Mercury poisoning caused by 4 industrial pollution of the environment, is an 5 intoxication of the central nervous system, also 6 affecting the other body organs and systems. As nerve 7 cells cannot regenerate, there is no cure. The effects 8 on the body vary according to the degree of 9 contamination, At Grassy Narrows and White Dog, symptoms 10 of chronic type Minamata disease are being found. This 11 causes a slow, malingering disability and early death, 12 and is usually associated with some intake of mercury 13 over a long period of time. People will show some or 14 all of the following symptoms, with varying severity: 15 Sensory disturbances, constriction of the visual field, 16 loss of motor co-ordination, and auditory and speech 17 disturbances. If pregnant women eat poisoned fish, the 18 child is poisoned before birth and in extreme cases may 19 have symptoms similar to that of cerebral palsy wit 20 severe retardation, but in mild cases show only slight 21 retardation. 22 In 1962 the Dryden Chemical 23 Company, now owned by Reed Paper Limited, began using 24 the mercury cell process ii its plant at Dryden, 50 25 miles upstream from Grassy Narrows. It is estimated 26 that 20 pounds of mercury were dumped into the Wabigoon 27 River each day for an 8-year period from 1962 to 1970, 28 and lesser amounts have been done between 1970 to 1975. 29 Although the Provincial Government finally discovered 30 the dangers from Reed's high mercury discharge, this Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6412

1 information was withheld from the public and from the 2 Indian people most seriously affected thereby, until the 3 following year. 4 To date there is no known way 5 to safely remove the mercury from the sediments of the 6 Wabigoon River, without causing greater problems by 7 stirring up the poison. If left alone, it has been 8 estimated that it may take between 70 and 100 years for 9 the mercury levels in the fish to return to normal. 10 The people of White Dog and 11 Grassy Narrows have demanded that action be taken to 12 remedy their situation. They have demanded that the 13 river systems be closed to all fishing, including sport 14 fishing and fishing for food. They have demanded that 15 the Governments of Ontario and Canada provide 16 compensation for the destruction of community life, the 17 loss of livelihood and damage to health caused by the 18 dumping of mercury. They have demanded that the 19 Provincial Government take legal action to gain 20 compensation from Reed Paper, and they have demanded 21 compensation directly from Reed itself. 22 Yet neither the Provincial 23 Government nor the Federal Government nor Reed Paper 24 have shown any inclination to meet these demands. The 25 voices of Grassy Narrows and White Dog are not usually 26 heard at the far-away decision-making centres of Toronto 27 and Ottawa. Reed will not pay compensation unless 28 ordered to do so by a Court or by legislation; neither 29 is likely in the near future. Reed is British-owned and 30 not interested in the well-being of Indian communities Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6413

1 in the Canadian north. 2 Industry and industrial 3 pollution will also follow the pipeline to the Northwest 4 Territories. Already there are signs of arsenic, 5 cadmium and mercury problems from the mining 6 developments near Yellowknife. 7 The fact that the pipeline, or 8 an industry serving the pipeline, is not directly 9 adjacent to a native community does not guarantee that 10 the community will be safe from the adverse effects of 11 pipeline development. The Reed Paper Plant at Dryden is 12 50 miles upstream from Grassy Narrows and even further 13 away from White Dog. Yet the Town of Dryden flourishes 14 because of the activities of Reed Paper, while the two 15 reserves face the destruction of both their economic and 16 community life from an invisible poison dumped 50 miles 17 away. 18 Industrial development in the 19 Northwest Territories should not occur unless the native 20 peoples, the majority of the population, choose to take 21 the risks that must follow. 22 Only if the Dene and the Inuit 23 control their land can they be free to make. such 24 decisions. If control of the north continues to remain 25 in Ottawa, and if decisions continue to be made in the 26 interests of the multinational corporations that seek 27 only to exploit the natural resources without concern 28 for the social effects of their activities, then it 29 appears inevitable that the tragedy of White Dog and 30 Grassy Narrows will be repeated in some form in the Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6414

1 Northwest Territories 2 It is not sufficient to say 3 that there must be no pipeline before the land claims 4 are settled. We take the position that the native 5 peoples must control their land and their destiny. Only 6 if and when the native peoples decide that the pipeline 7 is to their benefit, should such a project be allowed to 8 proceed. The people and governments of Canada must 9 recognize the rights of the Dene nation as stated in its 10 historic manifesto of 1975. 11 "Our plea to the world," 12 and I'm quoting part of the manifesto, 13 "Our plea to the world is to help us in our 14 struggle to find a place in the world community 15 where we can exercise our right to self- 16 determination as a distinct people and as a na- 17 tion. What we seek then is independence and 18 self-determination within the country of Can- 19 ada. This is what we mean when we call for a 20 just land settlement for the Dene nation." 21 "The Dene find themselves as part of a country. 22 That country is Canada. But the Government of 23 Canada is not the government of the Dene. The 24 Government of the Northwest Territories is not 25 the government of the, Dene, These governments 26 were not the choice of the Dene. They were im- 27 posed upon the Dene. What we, the Dene, are 28 struggling for is the recognition of the Dene 29 nation by the governments and peoples of the 30 world." Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6415

1 Thank you, Mr. Commissioner. 2 (SUBMISSION OF LAW UNION OF ONTARIO ET AL - N. ZLOTKIN 3 MARKED EXHIBIT C-442) 4 (WITNESS ASIDE) 5 MR. WADDELL: The next brief, 6 sir, is from Mr. J.A. Meakes of the Ontario Chamber of 7 Commerce. 8 R. MEAKES, Sworn: 9 THE WITNESS: Mr. 10 Commissioner, the Ontario Chamber of Commerce is an 11 autonomous federation of over 180 community-based Boards 12 of Trade and Chambers of Commerce located throughout the 13 Province of Ontario. Individual membership of these 14 organizations, numbers in excess of 46,000 persons 15 involved in the total spectrum of the provincial 16 business community, from sole proprietorships to 17 multinational corporations 18 In addition to the above, over 19 1,200 Ontario-headquartered corporations are fee-paying 20 but non-voting members of the Ontario Chamber of 21 Commerce in their own right. 22 This unique blend of both 23 community and corporate thinking provides the basis of 24 the following, submission, and is represented throughout 25 the views expressed herein. 26 The submission, although, it 27 is a distillation of thought, is made therefore, Mr. 28 Commissioner, fully mindful of the lay person's concern 29 in the public debate regarding the proposed Mackenzie 30 Valley Pipeline. Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6416

1 We refer first to the economic 2 import of Ontario. Canada is basically a trading 3 nation, and within its confederation, Ontario is no less 4 a trading entity exchanging goods and services with 5 other parts of Canada, as well as with lands beyond our 6 national borders. In this connection, sir, reference to 7 "Ontario Statistics 1975" published by the Provincial 8 Ministry of Treasury, Economics & Inter-. governmental 9 Affairs, indicates that Ontario presently is responsible 10 for approximately 48% of all Canada's commodity 11 production, while exporting over one-third of the 12 nation's total exports to our principal trading areas. 13 This province therefore containing 36.11 of the total 14 Canadian population, is ever-conscious of both national 15 and international trade. Such trade clearly requires 16 transportation systems, and their essential role is very 17 evident. 18 In serving as spokesman for 19 this vast provincial community, the Ontario Chamber is 20 deeply sensitive to not only the economic but also the 21 social, well-being of Ontario, the north, and all of 22 Canada. A constant and assured supply of energy is, in 23 our belief, essential to these matters. 24 I direct your attention to 25 native rights. Your Inquiry, sir, has dealt at length 26 during these hearings with the topic of native land 27 claims, and we share with numerous Canadians the 28 requirement for an early and equitable settlement of 29 justified claims of the affected native groups. 30 We as responsible citizens, Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6417

1 support the desires of the native peoples,: and the 2 obligations of the government to ensure each member of 3 society fair treatment and an equal role. We recognize 4 in addition that the social and economic well-being of 5 our nation requires in the near future development of 6 additional supplies of domestic energy. 7 Your efforts therefore, sir, 8 to deal effectively with both of these difficult and 9 important issues, will no doubt be supported in the main 10 by the people of Canada. 11 In a recent publication of 12 your Commission you state that indications of the nature 13 and extent of land claims will enable the Inquiry to be, 14 in your words, sir: 15 "in a position to indicate to the Minister of 16 Indian Affairs & Northern Development, the Hon- 17 ourable Judd Buchanan) what measures ought to 18 be taken to ensure that the native peoples, in 19 their negotiations with the government, do not 20 find themselves at any disadvantage owing to 21 the building of the pipeline, and looking to 22 the consummation of negotiations, what measures 23 ought to be taken to ensure that whatever the 24 extent of native interest that may ultimately 25 be recognized by any settlement, it will not be 26 diminished by the construction of the pipeline 27 in the meantime." 28 In your pursuit of this 29 objective, sir, you are assured of the support of the 30 Ontario Chamber of Commerce and we trust that all Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6418

1 parties concerned will deal with this matter in the 2 spirit intended. 3 We would refer now to the 4 socioeconomic impact on Ontario. Ontario as a major 5 consumer of energy, must have assurance of a secure and 6 constant energy supply, if it is to continue its role as 7 a major provider of goods, jobs and services. 8 Present forecasts indicate that 9 even if Canadians strenuously practice conservation of 10 energy in every form, domestic supply presently available 11 will be inadequate in the early 1980s. 12 Any untoward delay in assuring 13 provision of sufficient supply in the limited time 14 frames remaining prior to the period mentioned, will 15 obviously seriously impede the ability of this province 16 to continue to meet its responsibilities to the nation, 17 or to its own citizens. 18 Economically, the national 19 annual deficit on current account, that is trade 20 involving all goods and services, has been approximately 21 $750 millions in the 20 years prior to 1974. In the 22 year 1975, Canada's current account deficit reached an 23 all-time high of $5.5 billions. It, now appears that by 24 the late 1980s the deficit on oil alone may reach some 25 $6 billions. 26 The current negative trade 27 balance that Ontario is experiencing is having 28 significant effects on the province's development. These 29 effects will be gravely aggravated by the compounding 30 petroleum deficit, and the relationship between economic Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6419

1 and social difficulties is well recognized. 2 We touch on environmental 3 impact. This Inquiry is concerned deeply with the 4 possible environmental impact resulting from the 5 development of the pipeline project. 6 The Ontario Chamber of 7 Commerce understands that these aspects have been 8 studied extensively and in great detail by the Federal 9 Government and the companies concerned. Further, we are 10 advised that these important deliberations have resulted 11 in identification and solution of many major 12 environmental problems, and that co-operative efforts 13 towards solution of remaining problems need not further 14 delay commencement of construction. 15 In summary and by way of 16 conclusion, sir, in this brief submission we have 17 attempted to touch on a number of areas of specific 18 concern relative to the development of the proposed 19 Mackenzie Valley Pipeline. 20 Additionally,, we feel obliged 21 to stress that should this project not proceed in the 22 most expeditious manner, there are a myriad of further 23 negative implications to this province and to all of 24 Canada. Among these are: 25 • the obvious decline in economic and employment 26 opportunities in the north; 27 • the negative impact on the economic well-being of 28 Southern Canada resulting from the need to import energy 29 supplies at future world prices, thus removing present 30 economic advantages in domestic energy prices; • the Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6420

1 nullification of one of the few competitive advantages 2 currently available to Canada's manufacturing sector; 3 • the decline on related revenue flow to the federal 4 coffers which will decrease the ability of the 5 government to provide appropriate assistance to northern 6 peoples and communities; 7 • and finally, for Ontario to be substantially dependent 8 on imported oil is fraught with political complications. 9 Therefore, Mr. Commissioner, 10 in the light of these matters and those other 11 considerations outlined, we believe that the Mackenzie 12 Valley Pipeline should proceed. 13 The feasible alternatives, 14 nuclear, energy, the development of the Tar Sands, the 15 development of coal, as prime energy sources, have 16 factors of time, cost and environmental concerns against 17 them. 18 So in conclusion, may we 19 submit that: 20 21 1. Immediate and rapid development of the Mackenzie 22 Valley Pipeline project is urgently required to ensure 23 maximum opportunity of obtention of seriously needed 24 supplies of natural gas to this province by the early to 25 mid 1980s. 26 2. This pipeline can be constructed while giving due 27 consideration to the legitimate concerns of our northern 28 citizens and their chosen environment. 29 3. The social, economic, environmental and security 30 aspects of the national interest demand that all Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6421

1 Canadians ensure the viability of this project with the 2 minimum of delay. 3 The Ontario Chamber of 4 Commerce and its community and corporate membership 5 thank you for the opportunity you have afforded to this 6 presentation, and commend you, sir, for your dedicated 7 efforts in this vital matter of national concern. 8 Thank you. 9 (SUBMISSION OF ONTARIO CHAMBER OF COMMERCE J.R. MEAKES 10 MARKED EXHIBIT C-443) 11 (WITNESS ASIDE) 12 MR. WADDELL: Mr. 13 Commissioner. I wonder if we could break for coffee now 14 and take a short I'd underline "short" coffee break. We 15 have a number of briefs outside. 16 THE COMMISSIONER: All right, 17 we'll adjourn for coffee. 18 (PROCEEDINGS ADJOURNED FOR A FEW MINUTES) 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6422

1 (PROCEEDINGS RESUMED PURSUANT TO ADJOURNMENT) 2 THE COMMISSIONER: Well 3 ladies, gentlemen, we'll come to order then and Mr. 4 Waddell can advise us who is to present the next brief. 5 MR. WADDELL: Yes Mr. 6 Commissioner, the next brief will be presented Mr. Glen 7 Caughey who is the vice-president of Union Gas, Chatham. 8 Mr. Caughey? 9 R. GLEN CAUGHEY, sworn 10 THE WITNESS: Good morning Mr. 11 Commissioner, ladies and gentlemen. It is a pleasure to 12 appear before you sir, and I am representing Union Gas 13 Limited. 14 Union Gas. Limited is one of 15 the 15 member consortium entitled "Canadian Arctic Gas 16 Study Limited" and to date this study group has spent 17 more than $100 million on various studies and materials 18 associated with the proposed Mackenzie Valley Pipeline. 19 Union's share of these expenditures to March 31, 1976 20 amounted to some $4.7 million. 21 Union recognizes and 22 acknowledges the importance of this inquiry and supports 23 the consideration of northern and native interests. As 24 evidence of this Union has supported expenditures by 25 Canadian Arctic Gas Study Limited of almost $20 million 26 for the study of environmental matters and socio-economic 27 factors related to the project. 28 Union currently believes that 29 the Mackenzie Valley Pipeline project as proposed by 30 Canadian Arctic Gas Study Limited offers the most Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6423

1 viable, economic and timely method of supplying much 2 needed additional energy input to Canada. Canadian and 3 U.S. markets. Union Gas Limited is a fully integrated 4 natural gas company engaged in production, purchase, 5 storage, gathering, transmission and distribution 6 activities. In addition, we sell and rent gas 7 appliances and provide equipment service, Our service 8 territory lies within southwestern Ontario, extending 9 from Oakville on the east to Windsor on the west and 10 from Lake Erie in the south to Owen Sound on the north. 11 We serve more than 400,000 customers, However, the 12 population of our service area is some 2 1/4 million 13 people, most of whom are affected directly or indirectly 14 by our ability to provide natural gas service. 15 16 During the fiscal year ended 17 March 31, 1976, we made the following sales by category: 18 To residential customers of which we have about 361,000 19 and of course there is more than that number of people 20 involved as there are between 2 1/4 to three people per 21 household, we sold about 46 billion cubic feet for an 22 aggregate value of some $83 million. In our area we 23 some 39,000 commercial establishments and of course 24 these people employ many more than that and serve many 25 times that number. To this category we've sold some 39 26 billion cubic feet for an aggregate value of $57 27 million. 28 Industrial accounts amounted 29 to some 4,300 and Once again, the people affected 30 Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6424

1 through employment and product availability are many 2 times this number. Many hundreds of times this number. 3 The volumes sold amount to some 142 billion cubic feet 4 for an aggregate value of some $157 million. 5 In total, we've served about 6 404,500 customers during the year, sold an aggregate 7 volume of some 234 billion cubic feet with a value of 8 some $304 million. The purpose in mentioning this, sir, 9 is to show that there is a great deal of economic 10 activity associated with energy and particularly natural 11 gas within our area. So Canadians are affected by this 12 source. 13 Most of union's natural gas 14 is sold directly to end users. However, we also 15 wholesale gas to other distributors for resale and 16 store and transmit gas for TransCanada Pipelines 17 Limited, the Consumer's Gas Company, North Sand Energy 18 Resources Limited, among others. To demonstrate the 19 growth and extent of our business and the urgency 20 which we attach to early delivery of Mackenzie Delta- 21 Beaufort Sea supplies, we have enclosed herewith a 22 copy of our 1975 Annual Report, a transcript of our 23 submission to the House of Commons Standing Committee, 24 a natural resources and public works, an energy study 25 which we conducted in 1975 and a more recent study 26 projecting energy requirements to the year 2000, This 27 material, sir, has been left the counsel and while it 28 is fairly voluminous, I hope you will at least glance 29 through and have a look at some of the graphs and 30 charts. They are very interesting. Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6425

1 We will also forward to you a 2 copy of our Annual Report for the year ending March 31, 3 1976 later this week when it is available from the 4 printers. From this material and the graph appended, 5 Schedule A, you will be able to see the importance to 6 southwestern Ontario of the early availability of 7 additional supplies of natural gas from the 8 Mackenzie Delta and ultimately from the Arctic Islands 9 as well. 10 Even if these frontier supply 11 sources are connected in a timely and expeditious 12 manner, serious shortfalls between supply and potential 13 requirements are going to occur. The curve also 14 indicates the seriousness and magnitude of the shortfall 15 even assuming a one percent per year compounding effect 16 due to reduction in demand through conservation and as 17 others have said sir, we find it very difficult to put 18 an accurate handle on just how far conservation will go. 19 We know that it's essential, We know that both our 20 Federal Government and our Government in Ontario are 21 practicing what they preach, I noticed on the 401 22 highway for instance last night federal vehicles 23 travelling at 55 miles an hour. I was going faster I 24 might add. 25 Obviously, gas from frontier 26 areas is vital to the future success of Union. 27 THE COMMISSIONER: There is no 28 55 speed limit here. 29 A No but in order to 30 conserve energy I believe there has been a federal Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6426

1 advice to some of the Army vehicles for instance and 2 others. 3 Q Oh yes, I understand that 4 but you haven't in Ontario adopted a 55 -- 5 A No, it's 60, sir. 6 Obviously then, gas from the 7 frontier areas is vital to the future success of Unions 8 but more to the point and purpose of this hearing, the 9 magnitude and timing of deliveries of Mackenzie Delta 10 gas will have a significant bearing on the future well- 11 being of hundreds of thousands of families, businesses 12 and industries throughout southwestern Ontario and 13 across Canada. 14 Through the years, these 15 Canadians have come to depend on adequate long-term 16 supplies of natural gas. Thus, it is absolutely 17 essential that the northern pipeline and other related 18 facilities be approved and constructed as expeditiously 19 as possible. If the line is not built in a timely 20 fashion, then homes, industry and commerce in the south 21 will become even more dependent and reliant on offshore 22 energy sources with resultant serious increase in 23 Canada's balance of payment deficit and a possible 24 lowering of our standard of living. 25 We very much appreciate, sir, 26 the fact that although your mandate is to review the 27 impact of any proposed pipeline through the Northwest 28 Territories and the Yukon and to protect the interests 29 of our native peoples, you have scheduled hearings all 30 across southern Canada. We interpret this as an Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6427

1 indication that you intend to give consideration. to 2 the position of the consumers, employers and taxpayers 3 in this most important undertaking. We commend you for 4 this as the consumer, industry and general public have 5 not received much attention up until now despite their 6 vital role as the ultimate source of the funds needed to 7 build the line and all the money needed to pay for the 8 Canadian frontier energy which will ultimately flow 9 through and from it. 10 In conclusion sir, I would like 11 to say that this presentation is not intended to reduce 12 or distract from the native land claims or environmental 13 issues which we know you will deal with adequately and 14 fairly in your report to our Federal Government. 15 This inquiry as I said last 16 night sets a bench mark for democratic involvement and 17 participation by Canadians with diverse views interests 18 and opinions. The students of Canadian history in the 19 future will be the ultimate judges of our success in 20 attempting to grow together as a unified nation. 21 Thank you sir. 22 THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you 23 sir. Thank you very much. 24 (SUBMISSION BY UNION GAS - R.G. CAUGHEY MARKED EXHIBIT 25 C-444) 26 (WITNESS ASIDE) 27 MR. WADDELL: Mr. 28 Commissioner, I call upon Miss Shelley Acheson of the 29 Ontario Federation of Labor. 30 MISS SHELLEY ACHESON sworn: Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6428

1 THE WITNESS: Mr. 2 Commissioner, it is with great pleasure and great hope 3 that the Ontario Federation of Labor presents this brief 4 to your Inquiry. We have watched the proceedings of the 5 Inquiry with interest, have admired your methods and 6 patience and understanding throughout. At the same 7 time, we have listened with mounting trepidation to the 8 words of Indian Affairs Minister Judd Buchanan in regard 9 to native land claims and the recent decision of the 10 Cabinet to allow offshore drilling in the Beaufort Sea. 11 We are concerned that the 12 drilling decision represents a continuation of the 13 commitment of the government to development and energy 14 retrieval in the north in the absence of a national 15 energy policy, full environmental study or concern for 16 the irreversible impact on the native people. We are 17 fearful that the attitude of Mr. Buchanan represents the 18 continuation of the government's colonial mentally 19 toward native people which has effectively kept them 20 economically and politically powerless. 21 22 The case of the native 23 people is a unique and exceptional one. Until very 24 recently the solving of their grievances has been 25 hampered by serious weaknesses in communication, 26 cultural misunderstanding and a deaf ear approach on 27 the part of governments. It is a very sad commentary 28 and a very incriminating thread that runs throughout 29 Canadian history that the native people have been so 30 Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6429

1 shabbily treated. 2 The range of solutions to the 3 Indian problem has been vast, from forcing them to 4 assimilate, live in cities and become white men to total 5 neglect and indifference. In between these extremes 6 have been hand-outs of welfare, education programs, 7 housing programs, all under the paternalistic hand of 8 the Federal Government, all conscious or unconscious 9 attempts to make them like us. Nobody was listening 10 when they said that wasn't what they wanted for the 11 native people were not aggressive and had no power, and 12 nobody cared about the frozen and forbidding land they 13 occupied which was the basis of their culture, their 14 lifestyle and their sustenance. 15 The discovery of oil and gas 16 in the north has transformed that land into dollar 17 signs. Now it has value in the eyes of society in a 18 totally different way than it has had for the native 19 people for centuries. This basic misunderstanding or 20 ignorance of what the land means to northern inhabitants 21 is the crux of the pipeline debate. It is so very, very 22 rare that an opportunity arises such as this one to 23 reverse the attitudes of the past and to ensure that our 24 historical relationship with the native peoples is set 25 aright. 26 Could we continue to call 27 our country a democracy if we did any less? It is 28 democracy which entitles each of us to participate in 29 the decision-making processes, democracy which brings 30 dignity to us all. It is a share in this democracy Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6430

1 and dignity the native people have been denied. This 2 is what the Dene Declaration is all about and if that 3 is gobbledygook, then the Minister of Indian Affairs 4 and Northern Development should not have the privilege 5 of serving the Canadian people who uphold these 6 rights. 7 It is very clear to us that 8 the question of aboriginal rights and control of the 9 land must be settled as a precondition to any 10 development in the north. The legal question of who 11 controls the land over which any transportation system 12 or energy corridor must past must be determined first, 13 Canada has never yet come to any final determination on 14 aboriginal rights, yet the native people have lived on 15 and with that land for centuries, Not to listen to them 16 now, now when there is such a unique opportunity to be 17 fair and just to give the native people a chance to 18 participate seriously in the economic development of the 19 north would be an intolerable abrogation of the legal 20 and moral duty of the Federal Government. We are amazed 21 at the patience of the native peoples of the north. 22 We are particularly amazed 23 when we read the following words from the Earl of Elgin, 24 Governor General of Upper Canada in 1854. 25 "The time seems to have arrived when the machinery 26 so elaborately devised with the object of protection 27 may be modified in some details. The original. in- 28 tentions never can have been to retain this people 29 in a state of permanent minority and always 30 Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6431

1 This page is missing in the original transcript at 2 Vancouver Public Library. 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6432

1 north but rather as a people with a vested interest in 2 the land who have knowledge and manpower and skill to add 3 to the planning of the future of the north which so imme- 4 diately and drastically affects their lives. This is why 5 it is so important that -- their rights to the land be 6 finalized first, to ensure that the native people have a 7 place and a say in the decision-making process which may 8 mean their survival. 9 The Ontario Federation of 10 Labor represents 800,000 unionists in Ontario and our 11 affiliated unions have developed and supported OFL 12 policy in these matters consistently. At the annual 13 convention of the OFL last November, a major policy 14 paper on human rights was unanimously passed by the 15 1,200 delegates present who represented over 500 local 16 unions. This policy paper which is attached advocated 17 immediate just and equitable land settlement with the 18 native peoples of Canada with full cognizance of their 19 aboriginal rights. The importance of this policy 20 to the delegates was evidenced by the number of 21 unionists who spoke to the issue with knowledge and 22 feeling. 23 THE COMMISSIONER: Excuse me, 24 that was at your convention? 25 A Yes, our annual 26 convention: last November. 27 28 In addition, during Northwest 29 Territories Land Settlements Week this past March, many 30 of our unions and labor councils planned or participated Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6433

1 in public forums or meetings, utilized native speakers, 2 and showed their support for the Dene and Inuit 3 positions. Subsequently, resolutions were passed urging 4 settlements of native land claims. The Canadian Labor 5 Congress will also have dealt. specifically with the 6 Mackenzie Pipeline issue at its convention last week. 7 We mention this activities, 8 Mr. Justice Berger, because we wish to stress the, 9 active and continuing support of the unionists for the 10 position of the native people in the north. As union 11 members, we know what it is like to negotiate, to have 12 deal on situations where the rights and the power are on 13 the other side of the table. 14 The labor movement was born 15 out of the fight against oppression, against any denial 16 of basic human rights and we are here today in 17 continuation of that fight. 18 The OFL is aware that your 19 mandate to ascertain the impact of an energy corridor on 20 the north. However, it is very difficult for us as 21 southerners, as consumers of copious quantities of gas 22 and oil not to discuss the impact of such a corridor on 23 the whole of Canada. 24 The many issues which arise 25 around such a mammoth undertaking will critically affect 26 all Canadians and must be considered. For example, the 27 vast quantities of capital necessary and the 28 implications to the Canadian taxpayer, the extent of 29 foreign ownership of the oil industry and its affect 30 Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6434

1 upon Canada, the possible adverse affects on our balance 2 of payments and value of the dollar, the less 3 than adequate financial returns from oil and gas exports, 4 the extent of oil and gas exports to the detriment of Ca- 5 nadian consumers, the lack of a 6 national energy policy or industrial strategy for Canada, 7 the capital intensive rather than labor intensive nature 8 of resource development. Such concerns are vital to Can- 9 ada and help to answer the crucial question, "At what 10 cost are we opening up the north?" 11 The OFL does not wish to 12 appear alarmist in these matters but if have become 13 distrustful, cautious and pessimistic, it is because the 14 government's record in the energy field is pitifully 15 bad, strewn with error and misguided policy, and 16 characterized by that apparently Canadian trait which 17 ensures that the interests of Canada always come last. 18 Perusal of federal decisions and documents on energy 19 over the last seven years attest to these-remarks. 20 It is important to realize 21 that the original reasons for extracting natural 22 resources from the north were based on false assumption 23 about our energy supply and needs and that even though a 24 more realistic appraisal of Canadian energy needs is 25 available today, that the pipeline is still being 26 advocated in the same manner for the same purposes. 27 The policy was wrong then, It 28 is more wrong now. Participating in a continental 29 30 Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6435

1 energy policy, straining our proven reserves of gas and 2 oil by long-term contracts with the United States, urging 3 a Mackenzie Valley Pipeline to link Canadian resources to 4 United States markets at cheap prices were and are poli- 5 cies promoted by and for industry. We now have our own 6 energy problems and must re-evaluate. It is not change 7 itself that is disastrous, but the failure to react to it 8 in time. 9 Because of a lack of a 10 national energy policy, we are into a situation of 11 sharing energy shortages with the U.S. We are bound by 12 export contracts which are difficult to escape from 13 without fear of severe retaliation from the U.S. and 14 other sectors. We find ourselves with possible 15 rationing of natural gas, as we continue to supply the 16 U.S. with their energy needs. 17 It is hard to imagine a more 18 inane predicaments when Canada is such a resource rich 19 country. 20 The proponents of, the 21 pipeline claim that it will sole these short-term energy 22 problem I3. We feel it will create more problems than it 23 cures. The pipeline (or more accurately the 24 corridor)will cost billions, billions which will have to 25 come from private Canadian or American sources if 26 American then what would probably be the most ambitious 27 development venture in Canada would be controlled by 28 foreign interests unconcerned with Canadian priorities 29 for Arctic development. 30 As well, the massive inflow of Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6436

1 American capital, coupled with other capital intensive 2 projects such as James Bay would create serious upward 3 pressure on a Canadian dollar. As a result, our exports 4 would suffer on the world market and industrial 5 production and jobs in Canada would be lost. If the 6 pipeline was financed in Canada, Canada's industrial 7 potential again would suffer as Canadian capital would 8 be diverted into the corridor project. 9 It is clear that the primary 10 benefit from building the Mackenzie Pipeline at this 11 time will fall to the international petroleum companies 12 who own almost all leases and exploration rights in the 13 Canadian Arctic mainland and to the U.S. Consumers. We 14 consider the Federal Government's policy of rapid 15 exploitation of non-renewable resources to be foolhardy. 16 Such a policy promotes the expansion of foreign owner 17 ship in Canada) is based on improvident estimates of the 18 reserves of oil and natural gas and Canada's needs, and 19 ignores the native peoples. It cannot therefore be a 20 policy which serves the national interest. Opening up 21 the north in this way is merely postponing the 22 inevitability of finding other renewable sources of 23 energy. 24 A further consideration and 25 one intrinsically linked both to the economic impact of 26 an energy corridor and to the impact on the native 27 people is that of the environment. We are by no means 28 expert in this area but our research on these issues 29 have uncovered unanimous agreement from government, 30 native people and industry that the northern environment Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6437

1 is fragile, based on the maintenance of. a precarious 2 natural balance and that some damage to this system is 3 inevitable. 4 What is of primary importance 5 to recognize is that because of the elaborate intricate 6 system of checks and balances in the northern 7 environment, any damage will have devastating 8 repercussions. One expert from the energy companies 9 will say there is a thousand to one chance of a serious 10 oil spill. Another will say ten thousand to one. It is 11 a moot point. There is only one Arctic, only one 12 northern ecology. We can only destroy it once and with 13 it the land, the animals, the people, all of which exist 14 interdependently. 15 The company experts deal in 16 statistics, formulas and probabilities. We are not 17 playing economic, social, environmental roulette here. 18 We are dealing with a real 19 place, real people. To knowingly take chances when 20 peoples lives and the lives of future generations are 21 hanging in the balance would be criminal. 22 In conclusion, it should be 23 remembered that in Canada, the natural resources are 24 owned by the people, not by the private interests who 25 extract and process them. The energy consortiums' which 26 will profit most from early and extensive northern 27 development do not represent the Canadian people, 28 Rather, what would most benefit the Canadian public 29 would be a comprehensive investigation of all the 30 options which would clearly delineate all the Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6438

1 social, environmental and economic costs and benefits for 2 the entire country. This could only he accomplished 3 within the context of a national energy policy that is 4 geared first and foremost to Canadian needs, based on 5 utilizing all our resources with a view to the needs of 6 future generations, conscious of environmental considera- 7 tions and fitting into a national and provincial indus- 8 trial strategy that includes a coordination of resources, 9 manpower, investment and planned development. At the 10 same time, we must gradually cut back exports to the 11 United States, develop a strong conservation policy and 12 allocate more capital into research on renewable sources 13 of energy. 14 The OFL believes that there 15 are alternative policies, that there is time. We ask 16 you, Mr. Justice Berger, to stress to the Federal 17 Government that no decision on the development of an 18 energy corridor in the north be made until a full. 19 settlement is reached with the native people in the 20 north and until a comprehensive energy policy is 21 formulated which analyzes what sorts of energy should be 22 used, where and when, based on as accurate an assessment 23 as possible of our resource potential and need. 24 There are many choices 25 possible. The choices made will affect all Canadians, 26 native and non-native alike. We urge wisdom and care in 27 the making of these choices. 28 Thank you very much. 29 30 Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6439

1 (SUBMISSION BY ONTARIO FEDERATION OF LABOR - MISS S. 2 ACHESON MARKED EXHIBIT C-445) 3 (WITNESS ASIDE) 4 MR. WADDELL: Mr. 5 Commissioner, we have three more briefs to hear from 6 this morning. 7 They are short briefs, but I 8 think we wanted to end a little earlier this morning. 9 Perhaps we could end now and we could put these people 10 on first thing this afternoon at two o'clock, if that's 11 convenient to you, sir. 12 THE COMMISSIONER:. Well, it 13 sounds like it is. Well, we'll adjourn now and 14 reconvene at two o'clock this afternoon. Thank you. 15 (PROCEEDINGS ADJOURNED TO 2 P.M.) 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6440

1 (PROCEEDINGS RESUMED PURSUANT TO ADJOURNMENT) 2 THE COMMISSIONER: Well ladies 3 and gentlemen, we call our hearing to order this 4 afternoon. 5 The Mackenzie Valley Pipeline 6 Inquiry is holding hearings throughout the main centers 7 of southern Canada to enable people who live here n 8 southern Canada to express their views about the 9 proposal to build a Mackenzie Valley Pipeline to bring 10 natural gas from the Arctic to the mid-continent. 11 We've had the advantage 12 already of hearing a number of briefs here in Toronto, 13 and we're looking forward to hearing from more of you 14 this afternoon. 15 I think that those of you who 16 are here have a pretty good understanding of what the 17 inquiry is all about. We're to look into the 18 consequences of building a pipeline and establishing an 19 energy corridor in the north, the social, economic and 20 environmental consequences. 21 The National Energy Board looks 22 into the whole question, how much gas is there up there, 23 how much do we need here in the south? Then the Federal 24 Government, with my report about the impact on the north 25 with the Energy Board's report regarding gas supply and 26 gas requirements before it, the Government of Canada can 27 then make its own judgment on the question. 28 This Inquiry doesn't decide 29 anything. Our job is to gather the evidence, establish 30 the facts as best we can, to enable the Government of Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6441

1 Canada to make an informed decision, to make an 2 intelligent judgment on these questions of fundamental 3 national, policy. 4 So, to give you an opportunity 5 of saying what you think about these matters, we are 6 here in Toronto today, and I'll ask Mr. Waddell to let 7 us know who we're about to hear from now. 8 MR. WADDELL: Yes Mr. 9 Commissioner. Our first brief this afternoon will be 10 from the London Conference of the United Church of 11 Canada given by Reverend Morley Clarke and Reverend Glen 12 Wright. 13 REVEREND MORLEY CLARKE 14 REVEREND GLEN WRIGHT sworn; 15 WITNESS CLARK: Mr. 16 Commissioner, on behalf of the United Church of Canada, 17 London Conference, I want to say how pleased we are to 18 have this opportunity of making our presentation to you 19 this afternoon. 20 At the annual meeting of the 21 London Conference of the United Church of Canada held at 22 the University of Windsor, May 18 -20, 1976, the 23 attached resolution regarding native land claims and 24 northern development was passed. 25 Our conference includes the 26 counties of Oxford, Perth, Huron, Middlesex, Floin, 27 Kent, Lambton, Essex together with the District of Al- 28 gonta. In this area, we have approximately 203,000 29 persons under pastoral care related to some 397 local 30 churches. Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6442

1 Nationally our denomination 2 participates in and gives financial support to Project 3 North, an ecumenical organization concerned with native 4 land claims and northern development. We also have our 5 own National Northern Coordinating Committee which works 6 in close conjunction with the Anglican Primate's 7 Committee on the North. The moderator of. our church, 8 Dr. Wilbur Howard, has taken initiative in organizing a 9 listening conference involving the National Indian 10 Brotherhood, the Native Council of Canada, the Inuit 11 Tapirisat -- I always stumble over that one - and 12 several Christian denominations. 13 Along with a great many aware 14 Canadians, our church has a deep concern that the future 15 development of the Canadian north be based on social 16 justice and responsible stewardship of resources. We 17 respectfully submit the attached resolution with the hope 18 that it may contribute to this end. 19 Sir, the resolution that we 20 give is a brief statement of which a larger 21 amplification is to be found in the current issue that 22 our church has put out entitled "Land for the North; 23 Native Land Claims" and with your permission sir, I 24 would like to place this on file with our presentation. 25 THE COMMISSIONER By all means! 26 WITNESS WRIGHT: A resolution 27 passed at the London Conference has also been submitted 28 to the Prime Minister and Cabinet by the following 29 people on March 2nd of this year. This is an ecumenical 30 group including the president of the Canadian Council of Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6443

1 Churches. I'll list them. The list is fairly short. 2 This was presented by the Most 3 Reverend G.E. Carter, president of the Canadian Catholic 4 Conference, Dr. P.C. MacDonald, general secretary of the 5 Administrative Council of Presbyterian Church in Canada, 6 Dr. R. Nostbakken, president of the Lutheran Council in 7 Canada, the Right Reverend Wilbur Howard, moderator of 8 the United Church Canada, The Most Reverend F.W. Scott, 9 primate of the Anglican Church of Canada. 10 This is the resolution that 11 was passed at our London Conference which is really an 12 endorsement of what has already been submitted. 13 "We therefore urge the Federal Government to: 14 A. Introduce a moratorium on major resource devel- 15 opment projects in the Northwest Territories for 16 the purpose of providing sufficient time to achieve 17 the following objectives: 18 1. A just settlement of native land claims. 19 2. Native peoples' programs for regional 20 economic development. 21 3. Adequate safeguards to deal with environ 22 mental problems like oil spills, well blow 23 outs, etc. 24 4. Adequate programs to regulate domestic 25 consumption and export of energy resources. 26 Independent studies now indicate that gas 27 reserves south of the 60th parallel are suf- 28 ficient to make such a moratorium feasible. 29 30 Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6444

1 B. Re-examine current policy positions on the ex- 2 tinguishment of aboriginal title in view of the 3 fact that the Nishga, and the Dene and the Inuit 4 of the Northwest Territories are in various ways 5 asking for a formalization of their aboriginal 6 rights. A more creative position might go a long 7 way towards reducing tensions and assuring more 8 constructive negotiations. Following the 1973 9 split decision in the Supreme Court (Calder versus 10 the Government of B.C.) the Prime Minister stated 11 that the concept of aboriginal title was a valid 12 one and that the political settlements must ensue. 13 C. Provide assurances that: 14 1. No approval will be granted for the 15 building of a Mackenzie Valley Pipeline until 16 the Berger Commission has submitted its final 17 report and serious attention has been given 18 to its findings and recommendations. 19 2. No right of conveyance will be granted to 20 any pipeline company or other resource compa- 21 nies in the Northwest Territories at least 22 until there has been an agreement in princi- 23 ple signed on all native land claims in the 24 Northwest Territories. 25 3. The proposed Polar Gas pipeline or any 26 other major energy projects will not proceed 27 until public inquiry similar to that of the 28 Berger Commission hearings is conducted." 29 That concludes our report. 30 THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6445

1 very much gentlemen. Thank you. 2 (SUBMISSION OF THE LONDON CONFERENCE, UNITED CHURCH OF 3 CANADA MARKED EXHIBIT C-446) 4 (WITNESSES ASIDE) 5 MR. WADDELL: Judge Berger, 6 our next brief is from Ms. Terry Green of the National 7 and Provincial Parks Association. 8 TERRY GREEN sworn 9 THE WITNESS: Mr. 10 Commissioner, ladies and gentlemen, I am Terry Green, 11 the staff person of the National and Provincial Parks 12 Association of Canada and I am appearing before you 13 today on their behalf. 14 The Association is a 15 charitable educational citizen's organization with a 16 membership of 2,000 and has been in existence since 17 1963, The mandate of the group is to promote the 18 benefits and preserve the values of Canada's national 19 and provincial parks and public lands. 20 Over the past 13 years, the 21 Association has fought to preserve the integrity of 22 certain parks threatened by development or overuse, 23 contributed, to formulation of policy relating to parks 24 and land use and participated in the planning of parks 25 and certain public lands. 26 In searching for the words to 27 put across our concerns to you, I could not help but 28 think of the activities of the past two years, 29 listening, not only to words but to feelings and to 30 currents of thought. The way in which you have gone Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6446

1 about this listening has set some very important 2 precedents in public participation in this country. 3 Public access to information and full disclosure of 4 information sources, provision of a forum for all who 5 are concerned to speak in their own way and in their, 6 own language, funding for intervenors and allowance of 7 lead time for preparation of submissions; all of these 8 were insisted upon as part of the Inquiry's broad 9 interpretation of its mandates and as a tribute to your 10 conviction, Justice Berger, that it's got to be done 11 right. 12 The appointment of the Berger 13 Inquiry was a milestone in Canada and an indication of 14 sincere government concern for the ecological and social 15 effects of a project which will undoubtedly have great 16 impact on future development of the north and the way of 17 life of northern people. The work of the Inquiry has 18 been carried out in the true spirit of just that, 19 Inquiry, and its recommendations, whatever they may be, 20 will a challenge to the government; a government which 21 has recently contradicted its spirit of concern for the 22 north and its people by allowing drilling in the 23 Beaufort Sea without assurance that technology exists to 24 clean up a possible spill. 25 The Association is represented 26 here today to convey its concern for the north and its 27 basic aim of protecting renewable resources such as 28 wildlife in the north. We are well aware of the 29 previous phases of the Inquiry and of the extensive 30 discussions of the physical environment, living Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6447

1 environment., human environment and of the engineering 2 and construction problems of pipeline construction. The 3 Association, not surprisingly I think, does not have 4 specific and new information to offer you relating to 5 the potential effect of a pipeline on special areas. 6 What we can offer is this, the conviction that the 7 pipeline proposals should not be considered in 8 isolation, but as one of the various proposals which 9 could have profound effects on the north and its 10 inhabitants. 11 The influence which the pipe 12 line would have on the area it is routed through and the 13 people in that vicinity is one thing. Its effects on 14 the north as a whole is another, and also a very 15 critical element. Will damage to ecosystems in the 16 delta area subtract significantly from the Arctic 17 resource in its totality Will there be a loss of habitat 18 or wildlife or features which are not found elsewhere in 19 the north? These are the sort of question which we wish 20 to pose to the Inquiry. 21 The Association, as a group 22 mainly composed of southern Canadians, cannot know the 23 land of the north as the natives do. We can only 24 respect their views which have often been expressed to 25 you and. add to them our belief that on ecological and 26 social grounds, we would support maintenance of 27 environmental conditions in the Arctic which would 28 provide for continued evolution o a traditional Inuit 29 culture. e can however, and we do, promoted conser- 30 vation programs for the north which will extend the aims Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6448

1 of the National Park Program in the south, preservation 2 of important and representative landscapes. There is no 3 question that the institutional arrangements for 4 reservations of such areas in the north will differ from 5 those in the south. 6 For example, the National 7 Parks Act allows for traditional native hunting and 8 fishing activities in parks. We are in sympathy with 9 this, but are concerned that research and management 10 methods be developed to safeguard the wildlife and the 11 renewable resources in the conservation areas. 12 There is absolutely no 13 question that national parks, I.B.P. areas and 14 conservation areas are needed in the north and on a very 15 large scale. The Arctic is huge, a land and water mass 16 of thousands of square miles containing numerous 17 different environments. Parks Canada Land 18 Classification System suggests that ten or more national 19 parks alone should be established to represent these 20 regions. Many of these reserves would be vast in terms 21 of our southern thinking if the environments were to be 22 properly protected and managed. Thousands of square 23 miles is certainly not unreasonable 24 The Association strongly 25 supports a comprehensive Arctic renewable resources 26 conservation program, with emphasize on a strong federal 27 role and an extensive system of zoning and conservation 28 areas as well. In southern terms, the need will be for 29 very large national parks or conser-vation zones as I 30 have said, due to the low carrying capacity of much of Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6449

1 the Arctic, relative to the south. 2 The identification of such 3 areas and the development of a zoning and land 4 management system which would center on critical 5 renewable resource areas will require a major resource 6 effort, although the limit Tapirisat of Canada has 7 already done some work on the identification of such 8 system through their renewable resources study. 9 Not only exploration and 10 development activities but also the potential impact of 11 wildlife harvesting techniques and of poorly planned 12 tourism and recreation programs could cause severe 13 problems in the north. It is the concern of this 14 Association that action be taken to ensure that it will 15 be possible to reserve large and representative tracts of 16 land in the north for conservation purposes. This land 17 use option cannot remain open if decisions are made 18 piecemeal regarding development proposals in the north. 19 We urge you to include in your 20 report recommendations, development of an extensive 21 system of national parks, I.B.P. areas, and other 22 conservation areas in the Arctic. We see the 23 establishment of such areas as genuinely being in the 24 common interests of native peoples and of all Canadians. 25 Thank you very much. 26 THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. 27 (WITNESS ASIDE) 28 MR. WADDELL: Mr. Commissioner, 29 our next brief is from Mr. Douglas C. Matthews, Mr. 30 Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6450

1 Matthews? 2 Well then I call upon Mr. 3 William Kashton of the Communist Party of Canada to give 4 his brief please. 5 6 WILLIAM KASHTON affirmed: 7 THE WITNESS: Mr. 8 Commissioner, the Communist Party of Canada has given 9 careful consideration to the questions your Commission 10 is called upon to deal with on the basis of its terms of 11 reference. 12 As we understand it, it is one 13 of determining the effects of a Mackenzie gas pipeline 14 on the native peoples, the environment and the ecology. 15 Underneath these questions, is a more fundamental one, 16 that of the future of the north. This includes the 17 question of energy supplies for Canada in the 18 foreseeable future, questions of ownership and control 19 of these resources, the role the native people should 20 and must plan decisions affecting their rights, their 21 livelihood and their way of life. 22 It is with this in mind that 23 the Communist Party of Canada advances its views on the 24 pipeline. 25 1. The north, as has been said more than once, is 26 Canada's last frontier. We need, to make sure it does 27 not become Canada's lost frontier by virtue of being 28 taken over lock, stock and barrel by the United State's 29 multinational corporations in the same way they, have 30 taken over other parts of the Canadian economy with the Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6451

1 complicity of Federal and Provincial Governments. 2 If a similar sellout takes 3 place today, if united State's imperialism through these 4 multinational corporations is allowed to control the 5 energy and natural resources of the north, it will in 6 fact control the whole of the Canadian economy. 7 The north as we know is rich 8 in oil and gas and it also has tremendous resources of 9 iron ore, copper and other precious minerals. These 10 constitute important reserves for the future and for the 11 development of Canada. To deplete them now, apart from 12 a major question of the rights of the native peoples, 13 problems of ecology and the environment, means to 14 deplete them in the interests of the United State's 15 multinational corporations, in the interests of industry 16 in the United States and not in the interests of Canada. 17 Canada has other sources of 18 energy at this time which can and should be used for its 19 development and further industrialization. The present 20 reserves of gas and oil can he left in the ground for 21 future use at a time and at a pace that coincides with 22 the best interests of Canada, her people and the peoples 23 of the north. 24 2. It is this which determines our basic approach to 25 the construction of a Mackenzie gas pipeline at this 26 time. Construction of such a pipeline should be held up 27 until there is assurance of Canadian control and 28 ownership of the pipeline and energy resources and their 29 use for Canadian development. Construction of the 30 pipeline at this time would not serve the Canadian Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6452

1 interests. It would serve the United States's interest 2 primarily. This is so because its main purpose would be 3 to guarantee the wholesale export of Canadian resources 4 to the United States. 5 In this sense, the 6 construction of the pipeline by the Canadian people at 7 great cost to themselves would he a form of 8 subsidization of the United States. Alberta would 9 become a corridor like the Panama Canal for the shipment 10 of natural gas and oil to the United States, and all 11 this guaranteed by Canada. 12 The pretense that Canada could 13 shut the tap later on if it wished to is so much 14 nonsense. We have the experience of the Columbia River 15 sellout and other sellouts to show this will not I be 16 the course of development once ownership lies in the 17 hands of the United States's multinational corporations, 18 once the energy is used mainly to satisfy the United 19 States' market and becomes indispensable to the United 20 States, it will mark the end F a Canadian resource and a 21 Canadian asset. 22 23 3. What is involved here is not only the construction 24 of a pipeline. The core of the problem is the 25 development of the north and its resources. By whom, 26 for whom and under what conditions? The myth is being 27 spread that building a pipeline constitutes northern 28 development? This is not so. A pipeline may constitute 29 a part of northern development, but this is not basic to 30 northern development. Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6453

1 The claim is being made that 2 a Mackenzie gas pipeline would have a similar impact on 3 Canada as the building of the TransCanada railway. 4 system many years ago. This is manifestly false. The 5 railways sought to unite Canada from the Atlantic to 6 the Pacific. It was part of the concept of a national 7 policy: 8 "...advanced by the then Prime Minister of Canada 9 John A. MacDonald, the aim of which was to build 10 one market in Canada, help stimulate industrial 11 development and protect it." 12 This is not the concept of the 13 Mackenzie gas pipeline. Its primary purpose s to serve 14 the United States, not Canada. It will move Alaskan gas 15 to the United States and sell Canadian gas to the United 16 States and at a pace which will deplete this resource 17 and preempt its use for Canadian development. 18 Its aim is not the national 19 interest but maximum profits for the multinational 20 corporations and their subsidiaries in Canada. The 21 pipeline will not bring wealth to the north, it will 22 siphon it away from the north and leave only ugly scars 23 in its place. No solid economic base has been proposed 24 which will have permanent value to the north and its 25 people. 26 The north is looked upon as a 27 hinterland, a supplier of raw materials such as gas, oil 28 and minerals, a kind of colony and not an area which 29 ought to he developed in a way which will serve the 30 north and its people and at the same time serve the Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6454

1 interests of Canada and the people. Where then is the 2 comparison between a national policy which serves to 3 unify Canada and a policy presently proposed which is 4 geared primarily to serve the United States, not 5 Canadian development. There is no comparison and those 6 that try to make it so are guilty of hoodwinking the 7 Canadian people. 8 9 4. Northern development cannot be separated from 10 recognition of the justness of the land claims of the 11 native peoples. The native peoples have made it clear 12 in their representations to your Committee and the 13 statements to the press and mass-media generally, that 14 they are not opposed to the development of the north. 15 They want to establish their land claims first, they 16 want to have a say over development of the north, They 17 want to be the beneficiaries of such development, not 18 its victims. 19 They want to protect their 20 culture, their identity as a people, their fishing and 21 hunting rights. All these are just demands which cannot 22 and must not be ignored. Tokenism here cannot and must 23 not substitute for recognition of these basic rights. 24 What must he established is the recognition by the 25 Federal Government and of Provincial Governments also of 26 the national identity of the native peoples as distinct 27 peoples. The government ward status must be abolished 28 where it exists and full, political. equality 29 established for the native peoples including the right 30 to decide on all matters pertaining to their distinctive Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6455

1 development. 2 The Dene Declaration which Mr. 3 Judd Buchanan so cavalierly rejected must not be ignored 4 by the Canadian people. Mr. Buchanan sees it as a 5 separatist document, when in fact is the expression of a 6 distinct people who, due to historical circumstances, 7 have not yet emerged to full nationhood. The task of 8 the Canadian Government and certainly of all democratic 9 Canadians is to recognize this and draw conclusions from 10 it. 11 The colonialist mentality 12 towards the native peoples was most crudely expressed by 13 Mr. David Searle, Speaker of the House in the Northwest 14 Territories when he undertook a wholesale attack on them 15 as a people. One is reminded of other Mr. Searle who 16 tell us that: 17 "Some of my best friends are Inuits". 18 What is evident from Mr. 19 Searle's proposals is that he is prepared to do almost 20 anything except get off the backs of the native peoples. 21 Mr. Searle is quoted as saying: 22 "We are a sick, sick society". 23 How true. Only such a sick 24 society and such a sick person could advance such a sick 25 point of view. 26 It seems to us that with, such 27 an attitude, Mr. Searle ought to retire as Speaker, of 28 the House in the Northwest Territories. He is unfit to 29 hold that high office. Unfortunately for the Northwest 30 Territories, there are other rednecks around holding Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6456

1 similar views. Is Mr. Buchanan so much better when he 2 refuses to face up to the basic rights of the native 3 peoples? The time is all past when the rights of a 4 people can be ignored, sat upon or spat upon. 5 In our program, The Road to 6 Socialism in Canada a program we adopted in November 27, 7 1971 we state: 8 "A socialist Canada will take meaningful measure 9 to compensate the native peoples for the historic 10 injustices perpetrated upon them by the British 11 and French colonizers in Canada and continued un- 12 der the rule of monopoly capital. Such measures 13 will include full recognition of their national 14 identity and development of their native cultures, 15 full power of decision-making on all questions 16 pertaining to their affairs as native peoples, the 17 rooting out of all vestiges of racism and dis- 18 crimination, full equality before the law and our 19 society, a massive economic and social program to 20 bring their living, health, housing education 21 standards; training and job opportunities up to 22 acceptable Canadian standards. 23 The Indian and Inuit peoples will enjoy 24 regional self-government and full rights to their 25 language and culture." 26 We are convinced that only on 27 such a basis can the national rights of the natives 28 peoples, their identity, language and culture be 29 guaranteed within the framework of a true north, strong 30 and free. Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6457

1 We call upon the other 2 political parties in Canada to end their evasiveness 3 and ambiguity and clearly enunciate their positions 4 with respect to the basic rights of the native peoples. 5 The core of the problem is 6 the necessity of a treaty with the native peoples of 7 the Northwest Territories which clearly defines the 8 question of development of the north, the role of the 9 native peoples in decision-making and all of the 10 questions pertaining thereto. 11 The Federal Government which 12 has complete control over northern development from the 13 Yukon to the Northwest Territories must first of all 14 come to a principle agreement with the northern and 15 native peoples with respect to their national rights 16 and land claims, as well as with due regard to ecology 17 and environmental control, before in any way proceeding 18 with the Mackenzie gas pipeline, and a railway or other 19 developments of a like kind. 20 Such a principle agreement 21 should include the recognition of the necessity of 22 preferential treatment of the native peoples. Indeed, 23 it is only through preferential treatment that the 24 native peoples can be assured of ecTual treatment, Any 25 other approach would be discriminatory and downright 26 harmful to the immediate and long-term interests of the 27 native peoples. Such preferential treatment should 28 find its reflection in housing education, medical 29 services and in training programs. Such treatment must 30 go alongside the guarantee of their rights as a people Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6458

1 with respect to language and culture including their 2 right to have an effective voice on all questions 3 having to do with northern development and the 4 protection of their vital interests 5 Moreover, nothing done by way 6 of development must interfere with their hunting and 7 fishing grounds. What must be established in principle 8 as well, is that the native peoples receive priority in 9 jobs and the right to highly skilled jobs based on 10 adequate training. As can be seen the debate around 11 the Mackenzie gas pipeline raises questions much larger 12 than the pipeline. 13 The underlying issue involved 14 is whether Canada shall continue the role of supplier 15 and reserve our raw materials and energy for the United 16 States with is attendant regional inequalities under 17 monopoly control, or strike out in a direction assuring 18 Canadian development and controls through public 19 ownership. 20 The challenge before Canada 21 is to reverse the trend of building up the industries 22 of the United States with Canadian resources and 23 embarking instead on a course which could transform 24 Canada into a great, independent industrial state 25 pursuing an independent foreign policy and developing 26 extensive and mutually satisfactory two-way trade with 27 the socialist and newly developing countries including 28 the countries of Latin America. 29 Canada needs an all inclusive 30 energy policy based on an inventory of energy resources Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6459

1 Such an inventory is essential before questions of 2 export of gas and oil can he considered. Such an 3 inventory is absolutely essential now when statements 4 are made about an alleged shortage of energy. The 5 National Energy Board blows hot and cold about 6 shortages whenever it is deemed necessary to carry out 7 certain objectives. Today we are informed of a 8 shortage of energy so as to compel agreement by 9 Canadians that prices should be raised with the 10 benefits accruing to the multinational corporations in 11 the way of additional profits 12 Is there a shortage? No one 13 really knows, but it seems more than coincidental that 14 the alleged shortage has been announced just recently, 15 precisely when decisions have to be made about a 16 Mackenzie gas pipeline. Canadians should ask who is 17 behind this claim of an alleged shortage and for what 18 reasons. In any case, be there a shortage or no an 19 inventory is required of all our energy resources in 20 Canada and the prospect of their utilization so that 21 Canadians know the scope of the problem and how to 22 solve it and point of fact, Canada has no shortage of 23 energy. It is one of those fortunate countries in the 24 world which has an ample stock. It is also one of 25 those unfortunate countries in the world in which this 26 irreplaceable resource is in the hands of others due to 27 short-sightedness, due to the effort to make a fast 28 buck at the expense of independent economic development 29 of the country. 30 Energy is too precious a Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6460

1 commodity to be left in the hands of the multinational 2 corporations or under the sole control or ownership of 3 this or that province. Energy is an all Canadian 4 resource which ought to be used for all parts of the 5 country for the benefit of all Canadians, irrespective 6 at of where they live and"a cost which would ensure 7 continuing long-term development and growth. 8 To ensure this, these 9 invaluable resources and assets must be taken out of 10 the hands of the multinational corporations and made 11 public property. This is the only way to ensure it 12 will be developed in the national interest. A fully 13 integrated all-Canadian energy policy based on public 14 ownership under democratic control is therefore 15 essential to the achievement of these aims and to 16 balanced economic development, job opportunities, 17 rising standards and Canadian independence. 18 In summary, the Communist 19 Party of Canada proposes: 20 1. The land claims of the native peoples. must be 21 resolved to their satisfaction This must be 22 incorporated in a treaty with the native peoples of the 23 Northwest Territories. 24 2. Economic development in the Northwest Territories 25 must be based on agreement with the native peoples. 26 This should include }e question of a pipeline, railway 27 system, protection of the environment and ecology of 28 the north. 29 3. As part of any agreement, the principle of 30 Preferential treatment for the native peoples must be Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6461

1 clearly established. 2 4. It follows from the above that the Mackenzie gas 3 pipeline should not be built at this time, 4 Thank you. 5 (SUBMISSION OF THE COMMUNIST PARTY OF CANADA - W. 6 KASHTON - MARKED EXHIBIT C-447) 7 (WITNESS ASIDE) 8 MR. WADDELL Mr. Commissioner 9 I call next Mr. F. R. Jones, the president of Steep 10 Rock Iron Mines from Atikokan, Ontario, 11 12 F. R. JONES sworn; 13 MR. WADDELL: Mr. Commissioner 14 while Mr. Jones is being sworn in, I would like to file 15 with Miss Hutchinson, the inquiry's secretary three 16 briefs -- short ones, one from Kapuskasing Industrial 17 Committee, Kapuskasing, Ontario, another from Mrs. Ruth 18 Stuart, Hamilton Ontario and finally from Mr. Selwyn 19 Dewdney, D-e-w-d-n-e-y, from London, Ontario. 20 (SUBMISSION OF SELWYN DEWDNEY MARKED EXHIBIT C-448) 21 (SUBMISSION OF RUTH STUART MARKED EXHIBIT C-449) 22 (SUBMISSION OF THE KAPUSKASING INDUSTRIAL COMMITTEE 23 MARKED EXHIBIT C-450) 24 THE WITNESS: Mr. Commissioner 25 I think my talk is probably going to differ from the 26 last one in at least two regards: One that it probably 27 has a different viewpoint and secondly that it isn't 28 going to he as long. The latter at least will be 29 beneficial. 30 THE COMMISSIONER: Order. Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6462

1 A Please, I am not being 2 derogatory to the previous speaker but I am bragging 3 about the shortness of mine. 4 I could he rightly accused of 5 bias because of the position which I occupy in the 6 mining industry and I recognize that. However, I 7 would like to say that perhaps the amount of bias I 8 could be accused of would be mitigated a little bit, 9 inasmuch as I am retiring from this industry in two 10 months time, and one of the main reasons is that I want 11 to devote a lot of leisure time to enjoying what I hope 12 will be the unspoiled, untarnished, outdoor places of 13 Canada, and mainly in the northern part of Canada, 14 although I have never been to the extreme north and I 15 hope also to get there sometime. 16 THE COMMISSIONER: Mr. Jones, 17 don't feel obliged in any way to apologize because you 18 have a particular point of view based on your own 19 experience and your own business interests, whatever 20 they may be. You know, everybody that comes here to 21 speak has a point of view and whether you want to call 22 it a bias or not is something that doesn't particularly 23 concern inc. People that come here to speak come 24 because they have a point of view that they want to 25 express, so feel free, sir. 26 A Thank you Mr. 27 Commissioner, I was attempting to say I hope my bias 28 has not influenced what I am going to say. We try to 29 he objective. We sometimes fail. 30 Now, Steep Rock Iron Mines has Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6463

1 operated an iron ore mine and associated beneficiation 2 plants at Atikokan, Ontario since first production in 3 1944, Steep Rock's shares were widely owned by the 4 public until recently, actually last February, 1976 when 5 Canadian Pacific Investments purchased approximately 68% 6 of the issued shares. Currently 86%, of Steep Rock's 7 shares are owned. by Canadian residents and we're proud 8 of this particularly because in the resource industries 9 as has been well brought out, is not always so. Steep 10 Rock employs 600 people. That's direct employment and 11 there's a large community -we say large, 6,000 people 12 which is perhaps more than 50% dependent upon Steep Rock 13 for its economy. 14 Our present operation derives 15 ore from an open pit mine and converts the raw ore to 16 iron ore pellets for sale. Most of Steep Rock's 1.4 17 million ton per year output goes to the blast furnaces 18 of the Algoma Steel Corporation at Sault Ste. Marie, 19 Ontario. 20 In processing its iron ore 21 for sale, Steep Rock uses substantial quantities of 22 natural gas and the present consumption is about 3.2 23 billion cubic feet per year, all of which is purchased 24 from Northern & Central Gas Corporation Limited who 25 draw their supply via a branch line off the Trans 26 Canada system. 27 Now Steep Rock has since 1956 28 owned the mining rights to a large deposit of low grade 29 magnetic iron ore on the south shore of Lake St. 30 Joseph, about 180 miles north of its Antikokan Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6464

1 operations. For those not familiar with that part of 2 the geography of the country, Atikokan is about 250 3 miles or so east of Winnipeg and 130 miles west of 4 Thunder Bay so this places this operation about 180 5 miles north say of the Highway 11 and closer to Thunder 6 Bay than to Winnipeg. 7 This iron ore deposit is 8 unique in central North America in that it appears to 9 be the only large deposit capable of economically 10 producing a "superconcentrate", that is one about 70 11 1/2% iron. Now from this superconcentrate, oxide 12 pellets grading 68% oxide and less than 2% silica can 13 be produced. These oxide pellets can be reduced to 14 metallic iron or sponge iron to provide a source of 15 melting stock for the electric furnaces of central 16 North America. 17 I have to include some of 18 these technical things which I am sure are not, of 19 interest to a great many people but it is part of the 20 context of the point of view. Now, except for 1975 21 when there was no significant growth in the industry, 22 the electric furnace steel making industry in Canada, 23 over the last 15 years, has been growing at an average 24 rate of 12% per year, or more than twice as fast as the 25 Canadian steel industry in total. 26 Electric furnaces require 27 metallic iron as feed stock, and historically have been 28 dependent upon a supply of steel scrap. The scrap supply 29 appears now to he fully utilized in North America and 30 Canada has for some time been scrap deficient. This Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6465

1 thing of course goes in waves. In most of 1975 there was 2 a scrap surplus because of the depression in the steel 3 industry but it seems that a normal condition is that 4 there just is not enough scrap for expansion of this 5 portion of our industry. So in order that our electric 6 furnace industry may expand, an alternate source of 7 melting stock is required and pre-reduced iron ore is the 8 only such alternate feed that is known, let's say, to 9 present technology. 10 The Steep Rock is well 11 advanced in its planning to base an operation on the 12 Lake St. Joseph iron ore deposits and to produce both 13 oxide pellets for blast furnace feed and reduced 14 pellet; for sponge iron for electric furnace feed, The 15 planned operation will require about 15 billion cubic 16 feet of natural gas per year, availability of which is 17 dependent: on the delivery of gas from the Arctic. In 18 other words I don't know whether there's a gas shortage 19 or not, but I know we can't get any. No other suitable 20 fuel for the-production of sponge iron is know to today 21 s technology. 22 Now it is our belief and 23 contention that the interests of the citizens of our 24 north and the interests of those of our mid-north and of 25 our south are inseparable. The life-style adopted by the 26 inhabitants of the Arctic is heavily dependent upon the 27 human resources of the south for its tools, 28 transportation and shelter. I say that with a great 29 confidence. I haven't been there but I think probably -- 30 I hope it's a true statement. The inhabitants of the Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6466

1 south are dependent upon those of the mid-northland north 2 for raw materials including fuel. The inhabitants of the 3 mid-north depend on those of the south for manufactured 4 items and markets for their products. 5 Now the maintenance and 6 improvement to our standard of living is well accepted 7 as desirable. I know that we can argue that one back 8 and forth but I think generally speaking, it is well 9 accepted as desirable. Now the term "standard of 10 living" undoubtedly means different things to different 11 people. A dictionary definition is: "The way of living 12 that a person or community considers necessary to 13 provide enough material things for comfort, happiness, 14 etc." The etc. is included in the dictionary as part 15 of the quote. Provision of those material things for 16 an every growing population demands expansion of 17 resource development. Now, that's just to maintain the 18 present standards of living. The emphasis of course is 19 greater if we are going to improve it. 20 21 It is a fair assumption that 22 resource development, for the good of all, had best be 23 done by those best qualified to do the work efficiently 24 It is inevitable that some of us suffer some 25 inconvenience because of the work of the developers and 26 this inconvenience must be kept to a minimum. Where it 27 is unavoidably otherwise some suitable form of 28 compensation becomes mandatory. It also behooves us, 29 if we believe in developing our resources for the good 30 of all citizen that inconvenience caused the developers Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6467

1 be kept to a minimum. Otherwise, our developers will 2 incur higher costs and all of us who require the 3 products, higher prices. 4 Steep Rock's project at Lake 5 St. Joseph is planned to supply a basic need of all our 6 citizens, the iron to make the steel that will be used 7 to provide our tools, transportation and shelter. 8 Natural gas is required for the project. It is 9 important that suitable means be devised and 10 implemented to bring that gas to such resources as 11 Steep Rock's ore deposits. 12 The alternative is that 13 citizens of north and south alike face a future without 14 the tools, means of transportation or shelter or with 15 fewer and more expensive ones. Time, our antagonist, 16 is rapidly out-distancing our decision making 17 processes. Let the right decisions be made, but let 18 the race not be irrevocably lost while making them. 19 Thank you sir. 20 (SUBMISSION OF STEEP ROCK IRON MINES MARKED EXHIBIT 21 C-45l) 22 (WITNESS ASIDE) 23 MR. WADDELL: Mr. Commissioner 24 I next call upon Professor Donald MacKay of the 25 Institute of Environmental Studies, York University the 26 University of Toronto. 27 DONALD MacKAY sworn; 28 THE WITNESS: First I would 29 like to outline my experience. I am on the staff of 30 the Department of Chemical Engineering and Applied Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6468

1 Chemistry at the University of Toronto. I am also 2 associate director of the University's Institute for 3 Environmental Studies, 4 My main research interests 5 are in oil pollution and clean up in which I have 6 published a number of papers and reports, several 7 relating to the Mackenzie Valley and Beaufort Sea and 8 in the Canadian energy situation. I have undertaken 9 research for the Department of Indian Affairs and the 10 Environmental Social Program, Northern Pipelines on 11 terrestrial oil spills at Norman Wells, Inuvik, Tuk and 12 Richards Island. I have acted as consultant to part of 13 the Beaufort Sea Project at Cape Parry. 14 I have grants and contracts 15 from Environment Canada, the Environmental Protection 16 Service, the Inland Waters Directorate and the 17 Atmospheric Environment Service, from PACE, the 18 Petroleum Association for the Conservation of the 19 Canadian Environment, the Ontario Ministry of Energy 20 and the National Research Council. 21 My comments fall under several 22 headings: some introductory comments on the energy 23 situation, a discussion of spillings of oil and hazardous 24 materials, the need for a better environmental impact 25 assessment procedure, a few comments on the gas pipeline 26 construction and operation, the social impact of Arctic 27 developments and finally I will draw some conclusions and 28 make some recommendations. 29 My theme is that it is 30 imperative that we exploit Arctic oil and gas soon and Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6469

1 that with proper planning, this can be done in an 2 environmentally acceptable manner but it will need an 3 improvement in our present performance. 4 First, the Canadian energy 5 situation. I am convinced that by the early to mid- 6 1980's Canada could face a severe petroleum energy 7 shortage. From the standpoint of energy needs alone, 8 it is imperative that exploration proceed as fast as 9 possible in the Mackenzie Delta and Beaufort Sea and 10 that gas and oil pipelines be constructed at the 11 earliest possible date. 12 The point which I wish to 13 emphasize is that the longer the delay in proving 14 reserves or constructing viable transportation systems, 15 the more critical the national energy situation may 16 become and the more likely it is that environmental and 17 social factors will be disregarded. I'm thus in favor 18 of early construction of the Canadian Arctic Gas 19 Pipeline. I recognize that in -- 20 THE COMMISSIONER: Excuse me, 21 It's not that I want you to take a position on it if 22 you didn't intend to. You said "Canadian Arctic Gas", 23 Does that mean as opposed to Foothills? 24 A That's right, yes. 25 THE COMMISSIONER: O.K. 26 A I recognize that in the 27 long-term, we must depend on renewable energy resources 28 but there is simply no possibility of substantially 29 decreasing our dependence on oil and gas in the next 30 ten to 15 years. The industrial and social consequence Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6470

1 of a short-fall in oil and gas supply would be 2 disastrous. I am equally convinced that it would he 3 intolerable to proceed with these developments in an 4 environmentally and socially damaging manner. The 5 issue is that conflicting imperatives of accomplishing 6 the exploration and construction objectives in the 7 short time available and yet satisfying environmental 8 and social factors. I believe that this can be 9 accomplished. 10 Spills of oil and hazardous 11 materials. Let me approach this issue by breaking it 12 down into four aspects and present my opinions and 13 conclusions. One should first strive to prevent spills 14 Spill-will, however occur and 15 the next stage is to predict the likely amounts which 16 will be spilled using past experience as a guide. Third, 17 one should try and assess the impact of these spills and 18 finally one should devise and have ready and tested 19 clean-up and restoration equipment and techniques. 20 Let me deal with each aspect 21 in turn. Prevention. The Inquiry could play an 22 important role by requiring that appropriate measures 23 by taken to prevent spills. Such measures have been 24 discussed in earlier testimony; for example, the proper 25 storage of fuels, lubricants and methanol. In my 26 opinion, if the procedures recommended are followed 27 then spilled damage should be acceptably small during 28 construction and operation of a gas or even an oil 29 pipeline, In areas of particular biological and social 30 or aesthetic importance extreme precautions should be Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6471

1 taken to prevent oil and other spills by increasing the 2 safety factor in design of facilities and by very 3 careful surveillance. 4 Spill predictions. I believe 5 that it is essential to prepare estimates of spill 6 frequency, types, volumes and time of year for oil and 7 other substances. This is difficult, but is does 8 provide a perspective on the magnitude of the problem. 9 Even an approximate estimate is better than no 10 estimate. For fuels, lubricants, methanol, etc., the 11 total amount handled obviously provides an upper limit 12 to the amount which can be spilled. In practise, it is 13 possible to estimate that x% of the fuel may be 14 spilled. I have no knowledge of the precise value of x 15 but I suspect that it will lie between about .1 and 2%. 16 I recommend that Alyeska data be sought on this topic 17 as well as on their experience of the most likely spill 18 causes and the most damaging situations. We can learn 19 from their mistakes. 20 The major oil spill threats 21 will arise from the exploration, production and 22 transportation of crude oil in this region. Various 23 analyses of oil spill statistics have been compiled, the 24 best being the "Outer Continental Shelf Oil and Gas: An 25 Environmental Assessment", a report to the President by 26 the Council on Environmental Quality, April 1974, Volume 27 5. The approach taken in this document is to assume a 28 volume of oil produced and calculate how much will be 29 spilled and in what quantities. If for our purposes we 30 assume that this region will produce a total of about 2 Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6472

1 billion barrels of oil over a period of 12 years, then 2 these numbers coincide with a large find as described in 3 that document. 4 Other data can be used; for 5 example, from the Canadian Petroleum Association 6 Statistical Yearbook, from the U.S. National Academy of 7 Sciences study, "Petroleum in the Marine Environment", 8 1975, the University of Oklahoma's "Energy Under the 9 oceans" and from the Beaufort Sea Project. I have 10 insufficient time to go through the predictions in 11 detail, thus I'll express only the conclusions. 12 During the production and 13 transportation of this two billion barrels of offshore 14 oil, that is assuming it is offshore oil, there will be 15 about ten major marine spills of average volume 37,000 16 barrels and a large number of small insignificant 17 spill. From the pipeline, there may be 24 spills of 18 average volume; 10,000 barrels. The total volume 19 spilled over 12 years would be about 600,000 barrels or 20 0.03% of the oil recovered or 300 barrels out of every 21 million barrels produced. 22 One can also argue that if 23 there is oil in the Beaufort Sea in these quantities, 24 then there is about 1 in 400 chance that the first hole 25 drilled in the summer of 1976 will blowout and will 26 release oil. There is a higher probability that it 27 will release gas only. 28 It is interesting to note 29 that there have already been two gas blowout incidents 30 in the Arctic Islands out of the several hundred wells Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6473

1 drilled. A blowout probability of about one in several 2 hundred thus seems reasonable. The Beaufort Sea 3 Project figure of one in a 1, 000 to one in 10, 000 is 4 I believe, optimistic. 5 Prediction of spill behavior. 6 Having established how much -- 7 Q Excuse me, I think the 8 Beaufort Sea Project's figure was one that they simply 9 took on the basis of the industry's own assessment. I 10 don't think the Beaufort Sea Project sought to assess 11 the likelihood of a blowout in the same way that they 12 were examining the consequences of a blowout. At any 13 rate, carry on. I get your point. 14 A Yes, you're correct. 15 Q That's your 16 understanding too then of what they did. Yes. 17 A Yes, they took industry 18 data to arrive at this figure of one in a thousand to 19 one in ten thousand, but it is published as part of the 20 Beaufort Sea Project. 21 Prediction of spill behaviour. 22 Having established how much will be spilled the next 23 step is to predict the behaviour and the impact. 24 First, spills on land. There 25 is a fairly good understanding of the physical behavior 26 of oil when spilled on Arctic terrain. This work has 27 been published by the Environmental Social Program, 28 Northern Pipelines in which it is estimated that the 29 average spill will probably cover a few acres which 30 will be very unsightly, almost completely devastated of Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6474

1 vegetation and it will take many years to restore. The 2 severity of the impact will depend on the season and 3 the volume of oil spilled, but there will be a little 4 impact outside the spill area provided that the oil is 5 effectively contained. If oil reaches a lake, then 6 that lake will probably be devastated biologically but 7 again the impact will be localized. It is generally 8 accepted that a spill into a river such as the 9 Mackenzie will be totally uncontrollable and the oil 10 behavior unpredictable. 11 Spills in the Beaufort Sea. 12 Regarding drilling in the Beaufort Sea, I have read 13 several of the Project reports and believe that their 14 assessment of the impact of an oil blowout is 15 reasonable. An impressive amount of data has been 16 obtained on the physical and biological environment of 17 the Beaufort Sea, but a one year study is inadequate. 18 A minimum of three years is needed to obtain meaningful 19 environmental data and develop understanding. 20 Personally, I doubt the 21 wisdom of drilling as far offshore in the summer of 22 1976 and I would much prefer to have seen drilling 23 delayed until the technology is more proved and oil 24 spill clean-up technology developed which could 25 minimize the environmental impact of a spill if it 26 occurs. The ultimate effects of a major spill in the 27 Beaufort Sea are still not well understood. 28 Clean-up. In the event of an 29 oil spill, the best initial response is to reduce the 30 impact, is to contain the oil in as small an area a Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6475

1 possible and prevent it reaching flowing water, then 2 remove it by hand or recovery devices and finally 3 promote restoration by relying on microbial degradation 4 and other natural processes to destroy the residual 5 oil. 6 As a result of observing oil 7 spills in the Arctic it is my belief that some clean-up 8 methods traditionally developed for temperate 9 environments are totally unsuitable for the Arctic 10 environment and that a specific clean-up technology 11 must be developed for the Arctic. Certainly burning 12 and diking the two most common methods in the south, 13 are totally inappropriate for Arctic terrestrial 14 conditions, especially on permafrost. 15 Regrettably, there has been no 16 research to devise methods of containing and removing oil 17 from soil underlain by permafrost. The development of 18 clean-up technologies for the Arctic environment should 19 receive a high priority, but the response of Environment 20 Canada in this regard has been disappointing. After the 21 "Arrow" tanker incident at Chedabucto Bay, those 22 responsible for clean-up were required to show 23 extraordinary ingenuity in devising clean-up methods. 24 It is unlikely that this 25 ingenuity would be matched in an Arctic blowout. The 26 low population density and cold climate will severely 27 impede the clean-up effort, making a high degree of 28 preparedness essential. I understand that testimony 29 has been given at this Inquiry concerning the Japanese 30 Mizushima oil spill in which vast resources were Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6476

1 mobilized for clean-up. Such an effort is clearly 2 impossible in the north. An effective oil spill 3 cleanup program may take many years to develop and it 4 is essential to start now. 5 Chronic oil emissions. I 6 would like to mention the problem that continuing 7 emission of small quantities of oil into the 8 environment of this region. This is less spectacular 9 than the spill incidents but possibly as important in 10 the long term. In the south, emissions from refineries 11 and other sources are usually well dispersed and 12 degraded in the aquatic environment and appear to cause 13 few problems. A U.S. National Academy of Science's 14 review of this situation concluded: 15 "The oceans have considerable ability to purify 16 themselves by biological and chemical actions. A 17 basic question that remains unanswered is, at what 18 level of petroleum hydrocarbon input the ocean 19 might we find irreversible damage occurring? The 20 sea is an enormously complex system, about which 21 our knowledge is very imperfect. The oceans may 22 be able to accommodate petroleum hydrocarbon in- 23 puts far above those occurring today. on the 24 other hand, the damage level may be within an or- 25 der of magnitude of present inputs to the sea. 26 Until we can come closer to answering 27 this basic question, it seems wisest to continue 28 our efforts in the international control of in- 29 puts and to push forward research to reduce our 30 current level of uncertainty." Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6477

1 I would like to suggest that 2 there is a real possibility that the Arctic fresh water 3 and marine environments will have a lower capacity to 4 assimilate hydrocarbons than have temperate 5 environments because bio-degradation rates are slower, 6 the oil will behave differently, for example oil under 7 ice, and some biota may be more vulnerable. Since the 8 Arctic aquatic and marine environment is less under 9 stood and may be more vulnerable, I believe that it is 10 fitting that we should be prudent, proceed with extreme 11 caution and take the utmost care to prevent discharges 12 of oil and other hazardous materials into that 13 environment, that we should err on the safe side. 14 A few comments on 15 environmental impact assessment. I would like to 16 suggest that a major contribution which this Inquiry 17 can make towards satisfactory development of future 18 northern projects is to recommend minimum and 19 consistent requirements for environmental and social 20 impact assessment in the north. 21 1. Obviously any major project in the north should 22 receive an adequate environmental and social impact 23 assessment commencing at least three years before 24 approval and the start of construction. 25 2. The assessment should be funded and directed 26 principally by government rather than by industry. 27 3. The assessment should involve scientists from 28 industry, government, universities and research 29 institutes, that is a cross-section of the Canadian 30 scientific community, both interested and disinterested. Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6478

1 4. If the aim is to predict the total impact of an 2 environmentally damaging event such as an oil spill, 3 then it is essential to undertake large experimental 4 spills preferably 1/100th, but at the smallest 1/1000th 5 of the size of the expected spill in the actual area in 6 question. It is noteworthy that there has been no 7 experimental spill in the area of the Beaufort Sea 8 where Dome will drill this summer. 9 5. This work must be done in a totally open manner 10 with all data published rapidly. There should be 11 equate time for assimilation, debate, review and 12 decision of the findings in an independent forum, in 13 order that its scientific validity be challenged and 14 proved and that any gaps in knowledge be clearly 15 identified. 16 Unfortunately, Canadian 17 scientific societies, from the Royal Society of Canada 18 downwards, have been almost totally inept in promoting 19 such a process and have therefore had almost a zero 20 impact. This is not the case in the U.S. Part of the 21 excuse or reason for this is the pitiful level of 22 funding for Arctic related scientific research in 23 Canada. 24 It is often not appreciated 25 by non-scientists that scientific data and conclusions 26 cannot he regarded as validated until they have been 27 thoroughly reviewed, published and subjected to the 28 rigours of criticism by other independent scientists. 29 This process, although sometimes slow, guarantees the 30 validity of the data and hence the decisions made on Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6479

1 that data. This validation process has not yet 2 occurred in the Beaufort Sea Project which is a good 3 example of failure to plan adequate assessments leading 4 to an obviously difficult and contentious Cabinet 5 decision. 6 I note that about half of the 7 Beaufort Sea Project reports are not yet publicly 8 available, especially the overview reports and the work 9 on clean-up or countermeasures. 10 I would also like this 11 Inquiry to note the eagerness which I observe in our 12 young Canadian students at university who seek research 13 experience in the Arctic and who are usually 14 disappointed principally because of failure to provide 15 adequate research funding to universities. 16 Canada, I believe will be 17 confronted with repeated crisis situations in the north 18 in which unsatisfactory decisions will be necessary 19 with conflicting environmental and industrial 20 viewpoints unless our impact assessment procedures are 21 improved. I believe that the proposed gas pipeline has 22 received an adequate environmental assessment but that 23 other projects such as the Mackenzie Valley highway, 24 drilling in the Beaufort Sea and the Arctic Islands, 25 oil pipelines and the Polar Gas pipeline have not yet 26 been adequately assessed. 27 Gas and oil pipeline 28 construction and operation. From reading the reports 29 of the Pipeline Application Assessment Group, the 30 Environmental Protection Board and many of the Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6480

1 Environmental - Social Program Northern Pipelines 2 reports, I believe that a very thorough and competent 3 job has been done and that if the suggestions of the 4 Environmental Protection Board 5 are followed, then the environmental damage will be minimal 6 and acceptable. My main concern is that there may not be 7 adequate inspection and control during the heat of 8 construction o ensure that environmental protection 9 receives the high priority it deserves. I believe that it 10 is essential that there be an independent and competent 11 inspectorate vested with full powers to halt construction 12 if activities become environmentally unacceptable. 13 Social impact. I fully 14 acknowledge my lack of experience in this area, but I 15 feel compelled to comment because it is obviously so 16 important, indeed more important than the environmental 17 impact. In my opinion, it would be intolerable to 18 proceed with development in the face of significant 19 opposition from the residents of an area such as the 20 Mackenzie Valley and delta. My impression from my 21 limited contact with them is that the residents are not 22 opposed to development. Rather, they are opposed to 23 development without adequate participation by them in the 24 decision-making process. 25 The contribution which the 26 native peoples make to the Canadian identity is out of 27 all proportion to their numbers and it would be 28 intolerable to treat them with other than the greatest 29 respect, acknowledging that when we intrude into their 30 traditional environment, it should be with their Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6481

1 agreement and full participation. 2 I believe that a major social 3 impact could occur during the construction process. 4 One of your most difficult problems is to ensure that 5 construction proceeds in the Mackenzie Valley without 6 destroying the social fabric of these small communities 7 I would go as far as to suggest that it may be 8 necessary to control access to these communities and 9 control construction workers in an almost military 10 manner. It should be possible to construct pipelines 11 in a socially orderly manner and avoid the "cowboy" 12 approach to resource projects which is often prevalent 13 in frontier regions. 14 I understand that it is the 15 intention of Canadian Arctic Gas to control their 16 construction labor to avoid such adverse social impact. 17 I hope that the Inquiry will ensure that this. happens. 18 In conclusion, I would like 19 to emphasize the following points. 20 I am concerned that if the 21 energy situation worsens, environmental and social 22 factors in the north will receive less sympathetic 23 consideration. 24 I believe that a gas pipeline 25 can be constructed in the Mackenzie Valley with 26 acceptable environmental damage provided that there is 27 effective inspection and control of all operations. 28 This control should extend to all operations such as 29 exploration and control over construction workers and 30 the affected communities. Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6482

1 Regarding oil exploration and 2 transportation, the situation is less satisfactory. 3 This Inquiry should require that every effort be made 4 to minimize spills of oil and other hazardous materials 5 by inspection of facilities and operations, that data 6 on spill frequency, source, nature, cause and effects 7 should be sought from the Alyeska pipeline, and spill 8 estimates prepared for all northern oil developments, 9 that research should take place on the physical and 10 biological behaviour and effects in the affected 11 environment and that a specific Arctic clean-up 12 technology should be urgently developed for spills on 13 permafrost soil in the delta and in the Beaufort Sea. 14 Hopefully, this can be 15 accomplished before major oil developments being, 16 although I am not encouraged by our record in the 17 Beaufort Sea. Until there is a much better 18 understanding of the resilience of the Arctic 19 ecosystems, we should err on the safe side by avoiding 20 stressing them with chronic or accidental oil emissions. 21 I hope that the Inquiry will 22 establish minimum requirements for environmental impact 23 procedures for future projects including factors such a 24 duration, timing, funding, involvement of a cross- 25 section of the scientific community, openness and the 26 provision of a forum for discussion and verification of 27 the research findings. 28 Generally, I am impressed by 29 the environmental attitude and efforts of the major 30 petroleum companies such as Imperial, Gulf, Shell and Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6483

1 Canadian Arctic Gas. I am less impressed by the 2 Federal Government's ability to plan energy supply in 3 an environmentally and socially acceptable manner. 4 Finally, I am convinced that 5 Canada has the necessary scientific and engineering 6 skills and attitudes especially in its youth to 7 accomplish orderly petroleum development in the Arctic. 8 I am concerned however that these skills and resources 9 may not be effectively deployed soon enough. My hope 10 is that this Inquiry will ensure effective deployment 11 of these skills and resources to achieve environmental 12 1), acceptable petroleum development in the north. 13 Thank you for this 14 opportunity to express my views. 15 THE COMMISSIONER: Just a 16 moment. It may be that since you've given evidence 17 about some environmental questions that are very 18 important to the Inquiry and to a number of the 19 participants that after counsel for the various 20 participants are consulted, one or more of them may 21 wish you to come to Yellowknife and if that occurs, and 22 you are able to come, we'll look forward to discussing 23 the thing at greater length. you at that time, but I 24 certainly appreciate your putting these things together 25 in this way for us. Thank you. 26 A Thank you. I'll be glad to 27 do anything I can. 28 (SUBMISSION OF D. MacKAY MARKED EXHIBIT C-453) 29 (WITNESS ASIDE) 30 MR. WADDELL: Mr. Commissioner Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6484

1 I think we can have one more brief before coffee if 2 possible. I'd call upon Mr. Douglas Matthews. Mr. 3 Matthews? 4 DOUGLAS MATTHEWS sworn; 5 THE WITNESS: Mr. Commissioner, 6 the discovery of significant reserves of hydrocarbons on 7 the North Slope of Alaska in 1968 brought about a rush 8 to explore in the prospective areas of northern Canada. 9 The hitherto modest effort in this respect had consisted 10 of a gradual but methodical northward extension of the 11 exploration effort from northern Alberta. The greatly 12 expanded exploration activity which engulfed the 13 territory extending either side of the Mackenzie River 14 and outwards to the areas offshore from that river 15 delta, quickly spread across most of the land areas of 16 the Arctic Islands, as well as a significant proportion 17 of the water areas. These efforts were given new 18 economic meaning as the energy crises of the first half 19 decade of the 1970's unfolded. 20 While the search for hydro 21 carbons focused a significant amount of Canada's effort 22 on the high north in a compacted time span, it should 23 recognized that since the conclusion of World War II, 24 increased southern influence has been felt throughout 25 the north. For example, the government program to 26 retire Aklavik and its replacement by Inuvik, the 27 expansion of river traffic on the Mackenzie and the 28 several mining projects in the Northwest Territories 29 are but some examples of the unrelenting southern 30 pressure on the north. Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6485

1 For the most part, this 2 pressure from the south is in response to a country and 3 a world which has demands for new sources of raw 4 materials. The pressure may surge forward at times 5 while at others it recedes somewhat but the trend is 6 always upward. The north is but one new area in the 7 world where these materials are being sought. Through 8 all of Canada, the economic consequences of finding and 9 exploiting the increased sources of raw materials can 10 be significant but for the indigenous peoples, the 11 consequences are in addition, social. 12 The Mackenzie Valley Pipeline 13 Project is another of the influences from "The south", 14 albeit to date one of the most significant with long 15 term ramifications that will affect Canada's northland. 16 It is probable that unless the country had been faced 17 with a project of such magnitude, with a so-called 18 "shock treatment" that we would have undertaken a 19 broadly based study on the impact of southern culture 20 on the north in which case the slower, less spectacular 21 filtering northward of these southern influences would 22 have continued. Should the pipeline not be built, this 23 brief suggests this osmosis situation will prevail. 24 I'll now speak to the north 25 and its inhabitants. Throughout this brief, the term 26 "the north" is used in reference to the Mackenzie River 27 water shed northward from Alberta, extending west where 28 the Pre-Cambrian shield surfaces to the Rocky Mountains 29 or the Alaskan border. It also comprises the Arctic 30 Island areas across the top of Canada, including Baffin Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6486

1 and Ellesmere Islands, and the water areas of the 2 Arctic archipelago. The term excludes, in this paper, 3 the Hudson's Bay area and others eastward. 4 The north is inhabited and 5 was, at the time the rapid northern expansion commenced 6 in 1968, by three categories of people. These are: 7 (a) Eskimos who historically and traditionally were 8 spread out across the areas north of the treeline in 9 small bands or groups. A significant trend towards the 10 concentration of Eskimo populations had been evolving 11 since World War II. These concentrations form more or 12 less permanent communities. 13 (b) Indian peoples. The Indian peoples occupying land 14 south of the treeline, who by 1968 had for the most 15 part over the course of the previous century and a 16 half, abandoned their total reliance on gaining their 17 livelihood from the land to one of reliance on either a 18 blend of traditional and southern civilization systems, 19 or one where the latter prevailed. 20 The trend over the most 21 recent quarter century has been almost completely one 22 way, i.e., away from the historic, traditional 23 aboriginal way of life. 24 (c) This is the third group. Others or non-natives, 25 including Métis who, in the case -- as in the case of 26 Indians, occupy lands south of the treeline. For the 27 most part, these others rely, on their livelihood on 28 the products of and are influenced by the peripheral 29 effects of southern ways as these filter north. 30 Mining, forestry, trapping, Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6487

1 fishing, transportation, etc., serve to orient their 2 efforts towards the activities designed to produce cash 3 in hand which is then used to buy southern produced 4 goods. 5 It is these three categories 6 of contemporary indigenous peoples whose lives the 7 Mackenzie Valley Pipeline will affect. The effects 8 will be economic, cultural and environmental. The 9 point is being made and is being elaborated upon in the 10 paragraphs which follow that any consideration of the 11 lives of contemporary inhabitants in the north should 12 recognize that proportionately, more orientation away 13 from the traditional life-styles towards western 14 culture has already taken place. 15 The north, a history of 16 southern or exotic influences. Prior to this century, 17 the impact of southern Canada on the Eskimo in the 18 north -- the term is defined in this brief -- was 19 minimal except perhaps in the eastern sections of 20 Baffin Island. Indeed, the first cultural and hen 21 economic influences affecting the Eskimo of the western 22 Arctic were Russian trading good emanating from Siberia 23 rather than from North America or Europe. The earliest 24 contacts were the explorers who, apart from giving 25 articles as presents in order to ensure the friendship 26 of the Eskimos, scarcely affected the native way of 27 life. 28 Probably the popularity of 29 the Arctic white fox as a fashion item in the western 30 wend was the single most significant event to alter the Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6488

1 aboriginal customs, as it shifted the emphasis of the 2 native from solely one of survival in a hostile 3 environment to one where a cash crop was of importance. 4 The cash crop, initially fox furs, followed by other 5 skins, reoriented some of the individual's effort away 6 from merely providing food, clothing and shelter to 7 instead harvesting of a crops and with the proceeds, 8 buying tea, flour, sugar, canvass for tents, rifles, 9 ammunition, traps and other small useful articles; 10 needles, cooking utensils and iron items, etc. 11 The influence of the fur 12 trade created permanent settlements which in turn 13 hastened the exposure of the Eskimo to the so-called 14 "better" way of life. Until World War II and the 15 subsequent related defense efforts, southern influences 16 on the Eskimo way of life came relatively slowly. 17 Canoes, outboard motors, snowmobiles, western weather 18 effective clothing materials, to give only some 19 examples, have all had an increasingly profound effect 20 on the way of life since World War II, Social transfer 21 payments, improved transportation methods, making 22 southern products, including liquor, generally 23 available, state medical benefits, the widening 24 availability of radio and television, etc., have all 25 combined to radically alter the native way of life. 26 The Indian people, in their 27 geographic regions, were similarly affected by the 28 exposure to western culture. Only the contact commence 29 sooner, in the 18th century, and because transportation 30 and communication was easier, the exposure was more Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6489

1 complete The fact that the contact took place before 2 the advances of modern medical science, resulted in 3 near disastrous sicknesses and epidemics ravaging these 4 groups. The economic vicissitudes of the western world 5 over the past two centuries have resulted in profound 6 economic consequences for these peoples, especially 7 during the troughs of such activity. 8 For whatever reasons, the 9 well-being of these peoples as a group has probably 10 deteriorated relative to that of other Canadians in 11 approximately 110 years since the Government of Canada 12 assumed jurisdiction over the territory from the 13 Hudson's Bay Company, As noticed previously, in the 14 area south of the treeline, the southern oriented 15 activities connected with extractive industries, 16 coupled with transportation, both surface, highway and 17 water and air, have had a substantial impact in these 18 areas and their inhabitants over the past 30 to 35 19 year. The completion of the Alaska highway some 35 20 years ago pioneered the way, showing that the north was 21 not impenetrable, using modern construction equipment. 22 In the view of the foregoing 23 evidence, this brief contends that to consider at least 24 the continental areas of the north as a "last frontier" 25 is basically unrealistic as the frontier demarcation 26 line has already been pushed northward to the mainland 27 coastline. Changes in the life-style of these mainland 28 peoples is well advanced in the transitional process 29 and we are now merely looking at their substantially 30 westernized contemporary living modes as one frame in Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6490

1 the motion picture which is already half run. 2 Environmental considerations 3 in the north. There is no question that the Mackenzie 4 Valley Pipeline, by its installation, will cause 5 environmental effects in the north. Almost any 6 physical act of man causes some effects and it is a 7 question of degree and the trade-offs involved. The 8 room in which you conduct this hearing is heated or 9 cooled, ventilated and lit through the consumption of 10 energy in one form or another which has been won from 11 nature. The paper on which you write your report will 12 probably come from the forests of our country, and it 13 is just not a single copy of the report that will be 14 required, but thousands, to be read by the many 15 Canadians who will want to learn of your findings. 16 Many cords of pulpwood will 17 be required to manufacture this paper. If the trees 18 that are cut to make such paper comes from a 19 nondescript growth of conifers in British Columbia 20 which province has many square miles of such forests, 21 no one will raise an objection. Should however the 22 paper maker wish to harvest a unique surviving stand of 23 pines or firs strategically located to be enjoyed by 24 the citizen of Canada or for the world, then we would 25 consider the environment has been affronted. A sense 26 of proportion is necessary. 27 The proposed pipeline will in 28 aggregate affect many acres throughout its length. The 29 significant disturbing effect however, will be 30 restricted to a corridor, say of a mile extending at Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6491

1 either side of the line which corridor, as a percentage 2 of the type of terrain effected will be inconsequential 3 Beyond this relatively narrow corridor, other than in 4 relatively few instances, neither the flora or the 5 fauna nor humans will be disturbed. Certain land 6 oriented migratory animals of which the caribou is the 7 most mentioned example, will require that special 8 safeguards are observed to contain the adverse effects 9 within acceptable bounds. The human physical awareness 10 of the project will be no more than that caused by a 11 modern highway complex traversing the countryside. Few 12 of us, a mile removed from such a system with bush in 13 between, are much aware of its existence. 14 Obviously, special attention 15 will have to paid to reduce the direct contamination or 16 pollution risks to minimal and acceptable levels but 17 the regulatory authorities, National Energy Board, 18 Department of Transport or whomever, can be charged 19 with this responsibility. In the industrial world of 20 which we live today, there can never be realistically 21 be a setting free from all risks. Indeed wars 22 accepted, the world of yesterday was more prone to 23 disasters caused by accidents than is the case today. 24 For example, the great fire of London in 1666 which 25 left only 1/5 of the walled city standing, having 26 burned over 13, 000 houses. 27 Ecologists, in presenting 28 arguments before this Commission would appear, from 29 reading press reports, to have emphasized that the 30 pipeline should not he permitted if there is a doubt Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6492

1 about the adverse effects on the environment and 2 particularly on the animal life. It would be 3 interesting to speculate what stand these persons would 4 have adopted if in the last half of the 19th century 5 when Canada and the United States, prairie lands were 6 being broken for agriculture and fenced together with 7 the lay-out of a rural road network, which action had 8 the predictable effect of causing the demise of the 9 plains buffalo, the piniated grouse, the true prairie 10 chicken and the virtual disappearance of the long 11 prairie grass. The question might be asked, should the 12 west never have been settled? 13 In any discussion of the 14 adverse effects of the proposed pipeline, it must be 15 recognized that the relevant aspects of the incremental 16 changes that the project may bring about, there already 17 exists regularly scheduled air transportation and in 18 season, river travel. Modern telecommunications are an 19 established fact. While the progress of the Mackenzie 20 Valley highway is currently indefinite , the Dempster 21 highway. an all weather road will shortly be completed 22 to Inuvik from Whitehorse, via Fort McPherson, A 23 railroad is perhaps one of the few remaining links with 24 the south yet to be put in place. 25 In today's world, little 26 culture moves by rail, mostly, it is freight. The 27 human social, economic and cultural forces will 28 therefore for the most part be present throughout the 29 proposed pipeline whether or not the pipeline is 30 present. The long-term pattern of encroachment on the Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6493

1 north by outside influences from the south and 2 elsewhere has been described previously. It is already 3 too late to insulate or isolate the aboriginal peoples 4 from exotic cultures. At best, further associations 5 with the outside can be retarded but that this is 6 practical is somewhat doubtful. Either for reasons of 7 national defense or display of sovereignty, a visible 8 Canadian presence is demanded in the northland. 9 Scarcely five years ago, the 10 voyage of the "Manhattan" through the Northwest Passage 11 caused concern that the Canadian northern claims could 12 not be enforced. In a world apparently destined to 13 experience increasing shortages of raw materials, it is 14 unlikely that Canada can leave in a vacuum efforts to 15 exploit to a lesser or greater degree, its northern 16 areas. In fact, over the past month the Canadian 17 Government has issued several policy statements in 18 which an expanded developmental role for the energy 19 search in the north has been indicated. 20 It is reported that world 21 renowned sociologist, Barbara Ward, has pointed out in 22 her book "The Home of Man", commissioned on behalf of 23 next month's United Nations Habitat Conference in 24 Vancouver, that Canada, as one of the richer countries 25 will be unable to horde its resources but must share 26 them with the world, the alternative being the risk of 27 violent repercussions. 28 Setting aside the question of 29 any further cultural impact on the north which it is 30 suggested is inevitable, the history of the evolution Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6494

1 of world's populated undeveloped areas indisputably 2 points to the inability of a people to remain insulated 3 from the surrounding world. The appropriate approach 4 would indicate a structured program designed to include 5 native peoples in the contemporary world of today. If 6 one accepts this tenet, northern Canadians of all 7 backgrounds should as rapidly as possible have the 8 opportunity to participate in the development of Canada 9 in the last quarter of this century. 10 The Mackenzie Valley Pipeline 11 offers a vehicle of sufficient magnitude to allow 12 Canada to include a significant number of these people 13 hitherto without these opportunities. 14 Alternative opinions. 15 Judging) on the basis of press reports, we in 16 southern Canada might assume that a significant 17 number of those appearing before this Commission have 18 spoken against the Mackenzie Valley Pipeline Project 19 proceeding at the present time. Included in this 20 group, are several articulate groups or individuals 21 commonly from the ranks of academia whose professed 22 objectives are to keep northern Canadians 23 uncontaminated by southern influences and the 24 landscape unmarred by the contemporary parallel of 25 the woodsman's axe. 26 To those who hold opposing 27 views, are accused of being self-serving which if the 28 benefits accrued Canadians -- to others than Canadian 29 citizens, additionally involves the selling out of our 30 national birthright. Without becoming embroiled in a Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6495

1 lengthy argument on the advantages or otherwise of the 2 development of Canada's resources under what conditions 3 and by whom, it is suggested that our Federal 4 Government is reasonably alert to the benefit and risks 5 inherent in these matters. 6 While any of us as 7 individuals may disagree with national policies, 8 nevertheless, it is the responsibility and function of 9 the government in our democratic society to develop and 10 articulate what they consider an appropriate policy. 11 Those who disagree with such a policy have their usual 12 democratic rights at election time. 13 The main issues before your 14 Commission therefore focus on the specifics spelled out 15 in the terms of reference and should not become 16 untracked into a debate on Canadian nationalism with 17 respect to industry. In a similar vein, this brief is 18 equally cynical when it comes to reasonably affluent 19 southern based Canadians prescribing a continued sparse 20 and stoic lifestyle for our northern citizens. It is 21 obviously appropriate for northerners to speak for 22 themselves in advocating a preferred way of life but it 23 is less than relevant for these preference to emanate 24 from the south. It has already been argued the 25 evidence exists that an insular prescription has failed 26 to function elsewhere, notwithstanding the intent. 27 Perhaps those who advocate such policies can be 28 persuaded to document their cases with appropriate 29 examples drawn from other parts of the world. 30 Mr. Chairman, I've been Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6496

1 handed a note that my 20 minutes has expired. 2 THE COMMISSIONER: Carry on 3 and complete your brief. I take it we're fairly close 4 to -- 5 A Yes, I've got one 6 example using, I guess what a lot of people have done, 7 the C.P.R. and then a conclusion. 8 Q Well, carry on. 9 A Thank you sir. The 10 C.P.R., a historical precedent. The similarity of the 11 deliberations Canada is facing with regard to the 12 Mackenzie Valley Pipeline with a previous major project 13 in this country's history, the Canadian Pacific 14 Railroad, has been often noted. The C.P.R. linked the 15 two coasts of North America north of the 49th parallel 16 and ensured the west's inclusion in the nation. 17 The pipeline offers an 18 opportunity to tie the north coast and the island 19 archipelago lying beyond to the presently settled 20 regions of the country and will facilitate continued 21 northward integration, dispelling suggestions that the 22 land areas extending almost to the Pole are anything 23 other than Canadian. Each project involves the 24 mobilization of industrial and financial resources 25 which comprise a significant proportion of those 26 available at the respective times in history. In both 27 instances, frontier areas are brought within the scope 28 of existing national infrastructure. 29 The socio-economic 30 opportunities to become available to the inhabitants of Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6497

1 the pipeline territory probably are not much different 2 in the order of magnitude although the character of the 3 opportunities is dissimilar, than was the case with the 4 C.P.R. a century previous. The environmental effects 5 on other than the human populations represent a major 6 difference equipped as Canada now is with the knowledge 7 to deal with these problems in this field, coupled with 8 the fact that the pipeline will not produce the 9 agricultural opportunities in the affected area due to 10 climatic considerations. 11 It remains to be seen, if the 12 pipeline development proceeds, whether the country can 13 make satisfactory use of the environmental knowledge at 14 our disposal. Perhaps the other differences between 15 the projects will be the time span elapsing between the 16 conception of the project and completion, which for the 17 C.P.R. saw 16 years pass prior to completion. If the 18 concept of the pipeline as a project. could be said to 19 have emerged in 1970, there still remains a few years 20 before the year 1986 arrives. 21 In summary, few responsible 22 Canadians would seriously challenge today the decision 23 to build a C.P.R. as the country's first and all- 24 important trans-continental link, although probably 25 some, with the benefit of 100 years of hindsight might 26 dispute that the terms have been appropriate. The 27 benefits gained did not come without cost to our 28 society, costs other than in monetary terms. Some of 29 these costs were social and some environmental. The 30 pipeline, if constructed will also have its share of Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6498

1 costs. For that matter, most projects of major scope 2 have some draw-backs. For example, one only has to 3 recall the dislocation problem brought about by the 4 construction of the St. Lawrence Seaway a few years ago 5 when farms that had been in the hands of families for 6 over 200 years, the United Empire Loyalist descendants, 7 were submerged under a water system. 8 Conclusion. The thrust of 9 this brief has been that there are no sustaining 10 reasons not to proceed with a Mackenzie Valley Pipeline 11 A pipeline poses no unique disadvantages to Canada 12 beyond those which might normally be expected to arise 13 in conjunction with a project of this magnitude. This 14 position assumes that as a point of departure, Canada 15 is or will be deficient in the energy required to fuel 16 our national effort, a premise based on the findings of 17 the National Energy Board and one to which dispute is 18 beyond the scope of this brief and it is understood, 19 your Commission. 20 However, if you find the 21 pipeline is inappropriate, this brief would ask the 22 question, what alternative energy transportation system 23 is recommended? Without such an alternative, a 24 recommendation against a gas pipeline presumably 25 results in the cessation of the current western Arctic 26 exploration, reversing recently announced government 27 policies. While it is again outside the scope of this 28 brief, it would appear that the problems posed by an 29 oil pipeline in the Mackenzie Valley are not less than 30 will be experienced with natural gas. In any event, a Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6499

1 broadly based exploration effort designed to find 2 hydrocarbons generally cannot be structured to favor 3 gas over oil or vice-versa. 4 No attempt has been made in 5 this brief to judge on the merits of one proposal over 6 another amongst the several contestants for the right 7 to build a gas pipeline from the north to southern 8 Canada nor has any consideration been given to the 9 merits of including or excluding Alaskan gas destined 10 for the United States in one or more of these projects. 11 One further variation for a 12 scenario to apply over the next few years involves a 13 postponement of the Pipeline construction for the 14 intermediate period. It is difficult to appreciate 15 what this will accomplish, given the willingness of 16 the various pipeline applicants to proceed at their 17 sole risk immediately. Canadians by this time 18 should have the confidence of the regulatory bodies 19 involved with grant construction permits only when 20 they have reasonable assurances that the risks of 21 accidents remains within acceptable bounds. That 22 public opinion is finally tuned to environmental 23 considerations. is by now very apparent to our 24 government. 25 With regard to the possible 26 human socio-economic effects of pipeline and this brief 27 acknowledges some will take place, it has been argued 28 that the gains produced by the pipeline project will 29 probably outweigh the adverse effects. Notwithstanding 30 this contention, it is hard to perceive in what manner Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6500

1 the inhabitants of the area will be any better equipped 2 to adapt to the inevitable changes in lifestyles five, 3 ten or 15 years from now in view of the historical 4 results of the past 50 to 100 years. 5 This presentation has been 6 made by the undersigned as a private individual, one 7 who has always lived in southern Ontario but one who 8 considers he is not unmindful to the appreciation of 9 Canada's problems, including those of our native 10 peoples. It is firmly believed that no solution exists 11 which will operate to the benefit of all interested 12 parties. Some of them will deem themselves 13 disadvantaged whatever the outcome. Considerable 14 wisdom will be required in enunciating findings that, 15 on balance, will serve Canada well. 16 Thank you sir. 17 MR. WADDELL: Mr. 18 Commissioner, wonder if we could break now for coffee 19 for ten minutes. Before we do, I should tell you that 20 after coffee, we will hear from Mr. Charles Godfrey of 21 People of our Plains and Mr. Matthew Edwards. We have 22 additional names of people that have approached Mr. 23 Roland and myself to give briefs if there is time and 24 those included in the order that we have them, Garry 25 Loeb, Joyce Young, Mrs. Ross of Thornhill United 26 Malcolm Davidson, 27 Could we break then for ten 28 minutes sir? 29 THE COMMISSIONER: All right. 30 (SUBMISSION OF DOUGLAS C. MATTHEWS MARKED Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6501

1 EXHIBIT C-452) 2 (WITNESS ASIDE) 3 (PROCEEDINGS ADJOURNED FOR A FEW MINUTES) 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6502

1 (PROCEEDINGS RESUMED PURSUANT TO ADJOURNMENT) 2 THE COMMISSIONER: Well, 3 ladies and gentlemen, we'll call our hearing to order 4 and spend the time until five o'clock considering the 5 briefs of those still on the list. 6 MR. WADDELL: Mr. 7 Commissioner, I apologize, I left off a name or a party 8 that was on our list and so I'm going to call him 9 first. I'm going to call Mr. Patrick Scott of Ottawa - 10 - or rather Torrent and Yellowknife, and then I'm going 11 to call Mr. Charles Godfrey, and then Mr. Matthew 12 Edwards, and some of the other people. I call first 13 upon Mr. Scott. 14 THE COMMISSIONER: Go ahead. 15 PATRICK SCOTT sworn: 16 THE WITNESS: Thank you, Mr. 17 Commissioner. Mr. Berger, I'm pleased to be here 18 before you in Toronto where I lived for 13 years before 19 moving west aid then moving north. I must say I'm a 20 little uncomfortable on this side of the microphone. 21 Fortunately, all the other cameramen have left. I feel 22 much more secure behind the cameras instead of in front 23 of them. 24 I chose to speak here in 25 Toronto for a couple of reasons, mainly because I spent 26 most of my life here and formed many of my attitudes 27 and opinions, as an adolescent and as a student at 28 Ryerson, where I started film production. 29 One of the things I want to 30 make clear as I begin, both to you and to anyone who is Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6503

1 listening, is that I'm an independent freelancer 2 working on contract to C.B.C., and whatever I say does 3 not reflect anything of opinions of the C.B.C., but 4 only of my own. 5 I want to talk mainly about 6 some of the concerns I've developed since being in the 7 north and travelling with your Inquiry into the 8 communities, about the impact of the media in the 9 north, I think first of all I'd like to say that the 10 concern I have is one of under-development in the area 11 that I work. We've heard a lot about the development 12 of the pipeline and industrial development, and I'm 13 rather frightened and concerned about the impact that 14 will come alongside with the development of the 15 pipeline in terms of mass media, and I'm concerned 16 because I don't see the impact of the mass media 17 anywhere in North America as being a totally positive 18 one, and that concern is further extended because in 19 the north we have unique cultures with specific 20 language groups, and they have very little opportunity 21 to develop the skills to produce their own programming. 22 I'd like to quote from Andrew 23 Cowan, former head of the Northern Services of C.B.C. 24 in an article he wrote in January. He says: 25 "Television in the north is a luxury that has 26 become an addiction, and it is now accepted as a 27 necessity. It is the camel in the broadcasting 28 tent, thanks largely to the demands of the white 29 transients and to the government satellite pol- 30 icy. It seems hopeless to fight the effect upon Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6504

1 northern audiences of television programs de- 2 signed largely for sophisticated, middle-class 3 affluent southerners with advertising that feeds 4 the rising expectations of an inquisitive prop- 5 erty-minded consumer-oriented society. The 6 white transients in the north have been condi- 7 tioned to these programs. Liquor and candy -- 8 like liquor and candy, their immediate appeal is 9 universal, and they are watched with interest by 10 native peoples. But even if the latter become 11 conditioned to them, what can they do -what can 12 the programs do for them in the present economic 13 cultural and social position? The fight against 14 the passive brain-washing of television seems as 15 hopeless in the north as it is in the south." 16 I'm referring to this issue 17 because I would like to suggest that if within the 18 realm of possibility you could consider this problem 19 within your report, as you consider the social impact 20 of development in the north, I think you would be doing 21 the peoples of the north a great service because I see 22 the impact of media as a subtle erosion of a way of 23 life. 24 Harvey Cox, in his -- one of 25 his latest books, 26 "The Seduction of the Spirit, " 27 refers to the television as a contemporary religion of 28 our society. It is the altar in each family's home. 29 In older cultures there was a religious altar; today we 30 turn to the television for our form of information, for Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6505

1 our form of edification, for in a sense our religious 2 practices, our family gathers around the T.V. too, and 3 there we learn. 4 Terry Ryan, the general 5 manager of the Dorsett -- Cape Dorsett Art Co-Operative 6 in the Northwest Territories, when he was asked what he 7 felt the effects of television had been in the north, 8 he said, 9 "It's another attack on the culture, and a 10 pretty all-encompassing one. I think television 11 is very influential. Prior to television you 12 had to physically pick up a magazine in order to 13 become aware of something that was part and par- 14 cel of the southern culture. Now it's visual, 15 it's right here, assailing you day and night." 16 Of course, good television 17 might not be so bad; but good television to you isn't 18 necessarily good television to the Eskimos, and I think 19 good television for the Eskimos would be something that 20 comes out of their culture. That really isn't too much 21 to ask. 22 The only way it's going to 23 come out of their culture and out of the Dene culture 24 is for people who speak their language primarily to 25 develop the skills to produce the programs; and right 26 now there is no vehicle for that to happen. 27 C.B.C. does on a regular basis 28 five minutes of programming which refers to this 29 Inquiry's programming in television in the different 30 languages. That isn't enough. When the secretary -- Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6506

1 when the Treasury Board sees fit to allot to the Public 2 Broad casting Corporation (C.B.C.) in the neighborhood of 3 $25 million to cover the Olympics and finds it impossible 4 to extend funding to the C.B.C. Northern Services to 5 carry on the coverage of the Inquiry after its original 6 scheduled finish date, I don't understand the priorities 7 of the government. We're talking about people. 8 THE COMMISSIONER: You don't 9 agree with them, 10 A I don't understand them 11 either. I don't understand that kind of mentality 12 because the Olympics is a two-week event, and no, I 13 don't agree with them either, whatever they are. 14 There's something much more 15 important happening in the north, and I feel very 16 fortunate in having had the opportunity of being a 17 transplanted southerner, having the opportunity to live 18 in the north and travel into the communities and listen 19 to the people and listen to their concerns. I remember 20 Phoebe Nahanni saying in Fort Simpson, in her home town - 21 - and for those who don't know Phoebe Nahanni, she's a 22 Dene woman who works with the Indian Brotherhood -- and 23 she said, 24 "It's unrealistic to think that their culture 25 will survive if the pipeline and the pending de- 26 velopment that goes with it goes ahead." 27 I agree with Phoebe, and I don't want to be part of 28 that destruction of that way of life because I've seen 29 it in a very limited way, and I've listened to the 30 people and watched the people in their lives, in their Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6507

1 own communities and I think about a place like Toronto 2 where we live in high-rises and we live in what 3 frequently is called a concrete jungle, and we know 4 that we don't like it, and we run to our cottages in 5 Muskoka, Haliburton, and we run to the Gatineau Hill 6 for skiing, and we run out to the Rockies for skiing, 7 and we run to Bermuda and Florida and Hawaii and every 8 other place where we can find what we have in the north 9 , and what the native people have in the north and want 10 to continue having. 11 Somehow we, in our rushing 12 around, fail to realize that it is us that is taking 13 that away from them. When we talk about the right of a 14 native land settlement, to me the question is it's not 15 their right, that's understated. What right do we have 16 to take their land away? What right do we have to 17 destroy their culture? There's been a word used, 18 "genocide" on the native people, we're in a very subtle 19 way practicing genocide as a nation. It's not 20 intentional but it's a policitized word and it's an 21 ugly word; but sometimes when I think about it, and 22 when I listen to the native people and know them 23 personally and see their frustration, 24 I'm afraid that I have to 25 come to the conclusion that we are destroying them. We 26 live in a way that we say we need the energy, we're in 27 an energy crisis, and then we fail to acknowledge the 28 excesses we have. As an example, this hotel with 29 heated floors in the bathroom so your feet don't get 30 cold when you get up in the morning. That's so absurd, Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6508

1 it's so inane, and we're willing to live with that and 2 at the same time we're willing to live with the 3 knowledge that in doing that we're taking something 4 away from someone else that doesn't belong to us but 5 belongs to them. I can't condone that. I can't agree 6 with it. I despise it. 7 I understand the kind of 8 frustration which would -- or I appreciate, I don't 9 fully understand -- that would cause someone like 10 Nelson Small Legs to do what he did 'a couple of weeks 11 ago. 12 I don't have very much else 13 to say, your honor, other than I hope that the work 14 you've done this past year and a half will not be 15 wasted by superficial needs, by superficial demands, 16 and by the incredible politics which goes on in every 17 nation amongst the various interest groups. 18 The corporations have the 19 power because they have the money. The native people 20 don't have money, they have lives that are worth living 21 and a way of life that is worth preserving. If that 22 way of life is destroyed because of our excess I've 23 never wanted to live in the States but I certainly 24 won't want to live in Canada either. 25 To finish I'd like to quote 26 Phillip Blake's statement, part of his statement from the 27 Fort McPherson hearing when we were there. He said: 28 "If we live in any kind of democratic system 29 there would be no further talk of pipeline. The 30 will of the people has been made very clear. If Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6509

1 the will of the people is not respected, then I 2 appeal to you and all the people of Southern 3 Canada to respect and support us in our efforts 4 to re-establish democracy and democratic deci- 5 sion-making in our homeland." 6 I guess the question for 7 Southern Canada is simply, "Which side are you on? Are 8 you on the side of the people trying to find freedom in 9 the democratic tradition, or are you on the side of 10 those who are trying to frustrate our attempts to find 11 freedom, and who instead are trying to destroy the last 12 free Indian nation?" 13 Just as a final comment, I've 14 met many of the people involved in the two applicant 15 companies, and many of them are very fine people, and 16 as. you have said frequently during these southern 17 hearings, they hold different views, they come from 18 different places. I only hope and pray that some kind 19 of a human sane solution can he discovered and that we 20 can take the time and that we can have the respect to 21 allow a way of life, a people to live regardless of 22 what it costs in an economic sense. 23 Thank you. 24 (WITNESS ASIDE) 25 MR. WADDELL: Mr. Commissioner, 26 our next brief is from Mr. Charles Godfrey. 27 28 CHARLES GODFREY sworn: 29 THE WITNESS: Sir, I am 30 speaking today, sir, as a representative of People or Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6510

1 Planes, which is a citizens' organization located 2 primarily in the eastern area of the city, but having 3 representation across pretty well all of Metro Toronto, 4 From bitter experience, 5 People or Planes is very much aware of the tendency of 6 government to become a promoter of projects rather than 7 a defender of the public good. More specifically, we 8 know how iniquitous it is to shoot first and ask 9 questions of the public to be affected after the 10 project has been started, whether the public are the 11 natives of the north or whether they're primitive men 12 of Pickering, this applies equally, 13 In June of 1975, annual 14 report of the Science Council of Canada, Chairman Roger 15 Gaudry, cited, 16 "The role played by two federal agencies, the 17 Ministry of Transport in promoting the Pickering 18 Airport and the Department of Indian & Northern 19 Affairs in promoting the Strathcona mining ven- 20 ture on Baffin Island," 21 as good examples of this type of activity. 22 We endorse Mr. Gaudry's 23 remarks -- further remark that: 24 "Information lies at the heart of all decision- 25 making and the automatic denial of access to 26 relevant information which has been a traditional 27 stance in the face of protest groups does not 28 seem to make a reasonable or defensible policy." 29 Our experience of four years 30 of denial of access to all information (which was Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6511

1 publicly funded, by the way) to say nothing of the sham 2 either through terms of reference or lack of suitable 3 funded input from all sides, sham-type enquiry leads us 4 to warn this Commission that it may well now be looking 5 into a matter that could be described as "now that 6 there is to be a Mackenzie Pipeline" rather than "what 7 if there is to be a Mackenzie Pipeline?" 8 We commend the Science 9 Council s advocacy of a conserver society as opposed to 10 a consumer society; and we commend to you our view that 11 society must take a long, slow and careful look at such 12 projects as pipelines. 13 Certainly our national policy 14 and our provincial policy have failed in the 15 development of alternate energy production facilities. 16 In proceeding with a pipeline we are committing 17 ourselves to a major capital investment which is 18 dedicated to oil as the source of energy, A serious 19 consideration must be given to that type of commitment 20 to an energy source which depletes national resources 21 and may well be finite. 22 In our Province of Ontario 23 which is one of the major consumers of energy in 24 Canada, this source of energy will represent added 25 expense to our industrial and domestic costs. Is it 26 not wise to put in context the possibility of 27 developing recycling facilities which would reduce the 28 need for oil as a source of energy? The recycling of - 29 garbage into energy is no longer an experimental 30 matter. In several areas throughout the world it is Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6512

1 now feasible and economic to produce energy from 2 garbage by pyrolysis or other types of garbage 3 treatment. Yet nowhere in our province do we see a 4 concentrated effort to bring this type of energy 5 production on line. Garbage is still dumped into open 6 fill sites and lost to, the country. Heat which is 7 generated by burning garbage is allowed to escape to 8 the atmosphere and lost to our purpose. Heat which is 9 generated in the production o electricity by, for 10 example, the nuclear power plant at Pickering, is 11 dumped into the lake. 12 In Hamilton we do have a 13 solid waste recovery unit incinerator which was 14 constructed by that city. It is essentially a garbage 15 disposal unit and the steam which is generated as a by- 16 product of the disposal simply cannot be sold at a 17 profit due to poor design and siting of the unit, 18 The Watts from Waste Project in 19 Toronto produces relatively little electricity compared 20 with the energy which is available from the garbage. In 21 addition* a cumbersome method of pulverizing garbage at 22 another site, trucking the garbage to the Hearn Plant 23 with a consequent net loss of energy over the long run. 24 These are examples of tokenism 25 in the production of energy which we are employing at 26 present to meet the growing demand for the production of 27 alternate energy sources. Yet in contradistinction in 28 Amese, Iowa, there is a municipally owned power plant 29 which uses refuse derived fuel and can produce this at a 30 net profit with less necessity for the use of oil as a Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6513

1 prime energy source. The same story is see in many 2 other areas in the United States Milwaukee, Akron, 3 Baltimore, with many other units scheduled such as in 4 Palmer, Pennsylvania, and San Diego. In St. Louis the 5 municipality, Union Electric and the Environmental 6 Protection Agency are operating a unit which consumes 7 some 6, 000 tons daily with production of energy and 8 saleable materials. 9 This pattern is even more 10 developed in Sweden. 11 Commitment to the pipeline 12 with its massive expenditure of funds denies those same 13 funds towards the development of alternate energy 14 production units. These units can be brought on line 15 at approximately $15 million each, with a tremendous 16 long-term saving in energy dollars and at the same time 17 a solution of the mounting waste problem in our 18 society, and preservation of food land which is used 19 for dumping garbage. 20 We view with suspicion the 21 failure of our government to develop an energy 22 production source which uses waste. This suspicion is 23 closely associated with our experience in the past in 24 fighting the air transport Junta which inhabits the 25 Ministry of Transport; then the query arises as to 26 whether there is a similar oil oligarchy which wheels 27 and deals in our government. 28 Because of our experience in 29 dealing with government and airport placement agencies, 30 we recommend that all northern development be postponed Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6514

1 until there is a full assessment of the possibilities 2 for the development of energy from sources such as we 3 have mentioned which have been proposed in the past by 4 the self-same Science Council of Canada. 5 These major economic 6 considerations must be put in context with the concern 7 we have that the views of our native people have not 8 been fully represented nor fairly considered and we 9 have not reached a mutually acceptable conclusion to 10 the native land settlements. 11 We urge the postponement of 12 the Mackenzie Valley Pipeline until all the factors 13 concerning energy production have been given a fair 14 hearing, which means sufficient and suitable 15 consideration of the energy potential in that which we 16 bury, Thank you. 17 (SUBMISSION OF PEOPLE OR PLANES C. GODFREY MARKED 18 EXHIBIT C-455) 19 (WITNESS ASIDE) 20 MR. WADDELL: Judge Berger, 21 our next brief is from Mr. Matthew Edwards. Mr. 22 Edwards? 23 24 25 MATTHEW EDWARDS sworn: 26 THE WITNESS: Justice Berger 27 and Commissioners, I'd like to thank you for the 28 opportunity to appear at this hearing. 29 I'm a bio-chemistry student 30 and I would like to talk about some techniques which Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6515

1 can be used to protect northern wildlife from harmful 2 effects of the pipeline and to manage northern animal 3 resources. 4 The principal method that 5 I'd like to discuss is tele-stimulation. Tele- 6 stimulation is well-established in research studies in 7 animal behaviour. Basically, the animals in these 8 studies carry small devices which are activated upon 9 the reception of a radio signal from a distant 10 location. For example, radio stimulation has been 11 used to activate a device which injects a chemical 12 into the blood-stream of a subject animal. It has 13 also been used to activate a transmitter carried by an 14 animal which can communicate various bits of 15 physiological information such as heart rate. The 16 equivalent used in these receiver-stimulators is often 17 model airplane control equipment which is readily 18 available. How does stimulation apply to the 19 pipeline? It can be used to ward animals way from 20 locations where they would be vulnerable. These would 21 include such points as garbage dumps, camps, 22 compressor stations, and roads where hunting pressures 23 would be high. As an illustration, let us consider 24 the garbage dump problem. 25 Bear, wolves, wolverines and 26 other animals are attracted to garbage dumps. The bear 27 problem is well-known across Canada. Let's say a bear 28 has arrived at a dump. You anesthetize him by usual 29 dart-gun method and fit him with a device that provides 30 an unpleasant stimulation whenever the bear is close Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6516

1 enough to receive a signal scent from a nearby radio 2 transmitter. 3 What would be the nature of 4 this stimulation? It could be many things, but the best 5 would probably be the release of an offensive odor such 6 as skunk oil, which is already obtainable in sizeable 7 quantities. If a solution of skunk oil is stored in a 8 small canister under pressure, then a magnetic switch 9 can be triggered by radio to release a small amount of 10 repellant as a spray. 11 Now if the transmitting 12 antenna is located near the garbage dump, the bear 13 would receive a dose of repellant whenever he comes 14 within range of the dump. The device could contain 15 an element that would give the animal some time to 16 move out of range before the next dose is delivered. 17 The animal would thus learn to avoid the garbage 18 dump. 19 Furthermore, if the same 20 signal is sent out from other transmitter placed at 21 other areas of human activity, then the bear would be 22 sensitized to all of these areas. The procedure would 23 be required only once per animal to immunize that 24 animal against a variety of hazards. 25 This system permits a great 26 deal of flexibility. The transmitters could be made 27 mobile, perhaps attached to a vehicle. Thus all 28 areas of surveying and construction can be made off- 29 limits to animals who have devices, In appearance the 30 receiver stimulator and the repellant canister would Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6517

1 probably be attached to a collar around the animal's 2 neck, as in the familiar radio tracking operations. 3 If designed properly, the animal would not associate 4 the bad odor with something he was carrying, and 5 would thus not try to dislodge the device. The power 6 requirement for the device is substantially less than 7 that required for radio tracking operations, in which 8 the animal carries a power-consuming transmitter. 9 Since bears have been tracked for over one year with 10 one battery, the device I am proposing would likely 11 last for many years, 12 What would be the cost of 13 such a system? I cannot provide an estimate, but the 14 following points can be made, 15 1. As I have mentioned, the equipment is not complex 16 and certainly less expensive than other electronic 17 methods used by the Canadian Wildlife Service in 18 animal studies. 19 2. Consider the cost of alternative procedures, 20 Transporting polar bears by plane can he very 21 expensive. 22 3. This method could have wide application in other 23 countries where animals are endangered and where 24 existing methods for protection are insufficient. 25 There are hundreds of endangered species that could 26 be protected electronically. Very few of these 27 countries are in a position to develop this type of 28 procedure. Canada could thus provide a useful 29 service in this area. 30 4. Finally, tele-stimulation can be applied directly to Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6518

1 the management of animal resources in the north. 2 I wish to describe in some 3 detail methods that might be used for caribou and 4 muskox. 5 First, caribou. The 6 guiding principle behind the method for caribou 7 management is that by putting devices on a small 8 number of caribou, the movements of a larger number 9 can be controlled. We might have the following 10 setup. A village or station would serve as the 11 central hub of a system of transmitting beacons 12 similar to those that would be used at garbage 13 dumps. The beacons would be strung out in lines 14 radiating from the central village, like the spokes 15 of a wheel. If a caribou equipped with a receiver- 16 stimulator approaches any of these beacons, he will 17 receive an unpleasant stimulation, probably once 18 more in the form of an offensive odor. The beacons 19 thus serve as an invisible fence that can be 20 extended for great distances. When a caribou 21 enters the region between two lines of beacons, he 22 will be progressively deflected towards the 23 village. The area controlled by one village could 24 be a circle 40 or 50 miles in diameter, and I've 25 constructed a crude visual aid to show what I mean 26 here. 27 Here is the village here, 28 this circle in the middle. Here are your lines of 29 beacons extending out from the centre, and here is a 30 caribou coming, these red lines coming in and being Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6519

1 deflected by these lines towards the centre, and 2 this whole area would be say could be of an 3 indefinite width, but could be many miles, 40 or 50 4 miles. 5 I'll just show it to this 6 side. This is the village, -here are the lines of 7 beacons, aid here are the movements of caribou being 8 governed, once they've come in from the outside, in 9 toward the centre. 10 These invisible electronic 11 barriers function in the same way as the fences used 12 by natives prior to the introduction of fire arms. 13 The primitive fence was made of pieces of wood 14 placed in a line. Caribou, reluctant to cross such 15 lines, would steer towards ambush points and snares. 16 In the modern caribou station, animals would be 17 directed to an enclosure and similarly trapped. The 18 success of this technique depends on the herding 19 behaviour of caribou. The animals who are first 20 captured and equipped with devices in the wild, will 21 be directed in towards the village by the beacons, 22 drawing with them some animals who do not carry 23 devices. These animals will then be equipped and 24 released and would themselves draw additional 25 animals in towards the village. Gradually a 26 sizeable percentage of the herd would be equipped 27 with devices, perhaps 10 to 15%, Animals drawn into 28 the village by this 10 to 15% can then be taken for 29 meat and skins and whatever. 30 Electronic control of caribou Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6520

1 herds has many advantages over present methods. It 2 would provide a high level of stability to northern 3 communities. A yearly supply of caribou is assured 4 with radio control, whereas present communities can 5 pass a year without seeing a caribou. The problem of 6 transporting meat and skins from the field to the 7 village is overcome since the animals bring themselves 8 in. With the stability of this method, the efficiency 9 of use of the caribou can be increased. All of the 10 meat, and skins can be used. 11 O.K., muskox. Present 12 attempts are being made to domesticate muskox in Alaska 13 and Canada to make use of the heavy coat that these 14 animals shed each year. Tele-stimulation could be used 15 to keep muskoxen within a certain territory. The 16 technique involves a graded stimulation that, increases 17 as the animals move away from a central point, 18 presumably the structure where the hair or fur will be 19 collected. It might even be possible to signal the 20 animal to come to the shed themselves in order to avoid 21 an unpleasant stimulation. 22 Tele-stimulation thus ranks 23 as a tool of powerful potential in the, north. It can 24 be used both for the protection of endangered species, 25 and for the management of animal resources. I would 26 suggest that the priority lies in animal protection. 27 Tele-stimulation provides us with an inexpensive 28 method of treating individual animals on an on-going 29 basis, while it protects animals from the hazards of 30 man it allows them complete freedom to roam their Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6521

1 natural domain. Think of the endangered species in 2 Canada and the world who might benefit from this 3 procedure. 4 My major recommendation to 5 this Commission is to take a lose look at tele- 6 stimulation, to obtain the opinions of biologists 7 and electronic. technologists, and to authorize the 8 necessary studies to be done. It is not impossible 9 to have these devices constructed and tested in the 10 field before the final report of this Commission is 11 written. 12 I would like to finish with 13 a suggestion for the protection of marine life. 14 Basically in the event of a major oil spill or 15 blowout, I propose an evacuation of the polluted 16 area. Since fish are critical food species in the 17 Arctic marine biom any measure that moves fish away 18 from an advancing oil front will have the effect of 19 moving other species away as well, as they pursue the 20 fish. The technique would involve the placing of 21 oil-detecting censors at drilling platforms and at 22 buoys located throughout the parts of the Beaufort 23 Sea that would likely see oil in a blowout or spill. 24 The censors could be located at surface, 25 intermediate, or bottom level suspended from the 26 buoys. When oil is detected at a censor, a loud or 27 disturbing sound could be triggered from a nearby 28 alarm. If sufficiently loud, at the correct 29 frequency for the hearing of fish, they would move 30 out of the area. The alarm would be continued until Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6522

1 the oil levels returned to safe. 2 Since the. underwater sonic 3 alarm and censor are positioned together, only the area 4 contaminated with oil s evacuated. At a higher 5 frequency, dolphins, whales and seals would also be 6 subject to sonic vibration and would choose different 7 waters. For these animals there would be two forces 8 encouraging movement away from the spill, the 9 irritating sound and the scarcity of fish which they 10 feed on. 11 The second recommendation I 12 wish to make to this Commission is to set up a 13 committee to receive ideas and co-ordinate research in 14 special tactics which might be used to protect wildlife 15 if the pipeline is built. 16 In conclusion, we must be as 17 active and as imaginative in the defence of northern 18 species as those who wish to build this pipeline. 19 Thank you. 20 THE COMMISSIONER: I think 21 I'll just remind the two pipeline companies, Arctic Gas 22 and foothills, that they might wish to pass on Mr. 23 Edwards' ideas for consideration by their own experts, 24 and I see Mr. Hemstock -- at least I did see Mr. 25 Hemstock here. 26 MR. WADDELL: He just went to 27 the phone booth. 28 THE COMMISSIONER: And Dr. 29 Pimlott, of Canadian Arctic Resources Committee is here 30 and I have no doubt he will take this theory of tele- Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6523

1 stimulation under consideration. 2 So thank you, Mr. Edwards, 3 wherever you are. 4 (WITNESS ASIDE) 5 MR. WADDELL: Mr. 6 Commissioner, Mr. Edwards made reference to a chart and 7 we're going to mark that as an exhibit, 8 (CHART BY M. EDWARDS MARKED EXHIBIT C-454) 9 MR. WADDELL: I call upon we 10 have time for another brief - I call upon Mr. Garry 11 Loeb. 12 13 GARRY LOEB affirmed: 14 THE WITNESS; Mr. Commissioner 15 I'm very pleased to have the opportunity to present 16 this brief to you. One of the beauties of this Inquiry 17 is that it gives concerned citizens a chance to make 18 their views 'known. 19 I have chosen to speak to 20 you not as a member of any organization or groups but 21 as a person who cares about the north and its people. 22 Mr. Commissioner, I have followed the progress of this 23 Inquiry throughout the country and read of the 24 evidence given by many witnesses. Through this often 25 confusing deluge of information and counter- 26 information I have become sure of one thing: That as 27 yet there is no adequate proof for the need to build a 28 Mackenzie Valley Pipeline. Thus far the reports in 29 favor of construction have cone from groups whose 30 motives are, to say the least, highly suspect. Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6524

1 1n evaluation of existing 2 resources and thoughtful examination of possible future 3 needs by an objective body would seem to be an 4 intelligent, logical and necessary next step. It would 5 aid in ascertaining whether or not such a vast project 6 is feasible and/or desirable. We really don't know yet 7 and until we do it would be tragic to push blindly 8 ahead when so much is at stake. 9 It made me glad to share your 10 trip down the Mackenzie River before the beginning of 11 the Inquiry's hearings in the north. A friend of mine 12 made the same trip two summers ago, and has shared the 13 beauty and sadness of what he saw with me. I sin a 14 canoe-tripper and back-packer, and have spent much time 15 in the wilderness places of this and other provinces. 16 During the past summer I canoed down the Yukon River, 17 meeting many of the people who live along it and on the 18 land of that territory, which will also suffer if 19 selfish and thoughtless development comes to the north 20 on a larger scale. 21 By no means am I an expert, 22 but I feel I know something about the wild places, 23 enough to care about them and to be shocked and worried 24 about the plans that threaten them. 25 Once a person appreciates 26 these places he must also admire the way of life of the 27 people who dwell there, and who have for thousands of 28 years, I have been following the affairs of Canada's 29 native people for some years now, and I am ashamed at 30 the record of our government, large corporations and Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6525

1 even of average Canadians in this area. 2 It is no wonder that native 3 people are hesitant to trust the white man, I am 4 revolted by the behaviour of the Quebec and Federal 5 Governments during rich of the James Bay tragedy which 6 finally saw the Cree and Inuit of that province pushed 7 into a corner where they could only take what was 8 offered. It is my fear that this will happen again if 9 we are not careful. I am further angered and worried 10 when the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern 11 Development calls the Dene Declaration "gobbledygook", 12 and whose government has said that it may not wait for 13 the report of this Commission before the decision to 14 build is made, 15 Yet the very existence of 16 this Inquiry gives one reason to hope against hope that 17 good sense will prevail. The land of the north still 18 belongs to its first inhabitants and if the white man 19 wishes to use it, he must deal honorably with its 20 owners. Manifest destiny must finally and firmly be 21 laid to rest. A chance now exists to right the wrongs 22 of the present, if not of the past, and to set a 23 precedent for co-operation and honesty in our future 24 dealings wit native people something that is long 25 overdue. 26 I hope you have not thought 27 me presumptuous in presenting this. I feel that 28 individuals have a responsibility to speak out against 29 injustice, whether it concerns land or people. It is 30 my hope that you will recommend that further study be Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6526

1 done before a decision is made, and that if a pipeline 2 is deemed to be absolutely necessary, that native land 3 claims will be dealt with before construction begins 4 with a view to reaching a just settlement that would 5 include native partnership in all northern 6 development. 7 I trust your honesty, sir, 8 and your sense of fair play, and I hope your 9 recommendations will be heeded. 10 Thank you for your time. I 11 wish you well. 12 (WITNESS ASIDE) 13 MR. WADDELL: Mr. 14 Commissioner, you heard me say earlier that we had 15 additional names, additional briefs that wanted time, 16 or people that wanted time. We've heard from one of 17 them. I think I'm afraid we don't have any extra time 18 this afternoon, and I believe there are some comments 19 from the participants. 20 MR. SCOTT: I understand, 21 Mr. Commissioner, that of the participants who are 22 here, Pimlott wishes to exercise his right to 23 comment on the briefs for ten minutes, or up to ten 24 minutes. 25 I should indicate to the 26 persons present that Dr. Pimlott represents the 27 Canadian Arctic Resources Committee, the environmental 28 consortium that participates regularly in the formal 29 hearings at Yellowknife. 30 Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6527

1 DR DOUGLAS PIMLOTT resumed: 2 THE WITNESS: Mr. 3 Commissioner, at Winnipeg I referred briefly to some 4 aspects of the energy equation and I think that the 5 hearings in Toronto have again brought some of the 6 important elements of that to the foreground, and I'd 7 like to briefly talk to one point that has been brought 8 to your attention on a number of occasions, and at 9 least twice today, and that's sort of and I think I 10 could refer to it as a conservation and environmental 11 viewpoint on the need to inventory petroleum resources, 12 and I think that reference to this could soft of be 13 sub-titled "The dilemma of the petroleum solution to 14 short-term energy needs." 15 I have been in aspects of 16 ecology and management for a long time and it's 17 difficult to quibble with the need to inventory a 18 resource, as a basic process in forestry and fish and 19 wildlife management, in agriculture, and in all of 20 these cases inventory is essentially a neutral "process 21 that's absolutely vital to the resource. Mr. Gillespie 22 has referred to this need on a number of occasions and 23 it's referred to in the new document on national 24 strategy -- national energy strategy for Canada. 25 But as I said, inventory in 26 these cases is done by government agencies and it does 27 not effectively pre-dispose of what will happen to the 28 resource; but this is the area in which it's entirely 29 different as far as petroleum resources are involved. 30 Petroleum is inventoried by industry, it's a very Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6528

1 costly process, and immediately substantial reserves 2 are found they must be developed. 3 In the 1973 presentation to 4 the National Energy Board, one of the points that was 5 made by Imperial Oil was that it was tantamount to 6 development of energy sources that reserves be produced 7 quite quickly after they were identified. So part of 8 this dilemma in a short-term sense is that if we did 9 make elephant finds in the Beaufort Sea, they would 10 predispose the whole national picture to looking for 11 this short-term solution in the use of these energy 12 resources; and last night you had that effective 13 presentation by Energy Probe discussing the possibility 14 of alternative sources, the possibility of using waste 15 sources, and the need for conservation. 16 But if we were able to work 17 to this solution and if we did work very effectively 18 and succeed in finding these major resources, I think 19 that there is a real danger that the long-term 20 interests of Canada would not be well served. It seems 21 an incredible thing to say, but I think when you see 22 and look at the way that petroleum resources are found, 23 the need to recover capital and then the capital 24 requirements for economies in scale of transportation 25 indicates that this is far from a neutral process and 26 wherein many doubts are raised about Canada's 27 capability of coming to terms with long term renewable 28 sources if we seek our solution simply through the 29 petroleum route. That's I refer to why I refer to this 30 as a the dilemma of the petroleum solution to Canada's Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6529

1 energy needs on a short-term, 2 Thank you. 3 THE COMMISSIONER: I see your 4 point. You're saying that if we were to discover 5 large volumes of petroleum in the Beaufort Sea, it 6 would distract us from examining alternate solutions 7 to our long-term energy needs. I take it that's the 8 point? 9 A Yes, that's the basic 10 point because as I know I have said before, before 11 your Commission that I consider -- and as others have 12 said -- this great need to consider petroleum resource 13 both for petrochemical feed-stock and as the basic 14 resource for fertilizer production, and I fear that if 15 we are to satisfy this apparent national need, to meet 16 the short-term, to get a short-term solution this way, 17 that it will have a serious effect on our long-term 18 resolution of the energy problem as far as Canada is 19 concerned. 20 I think that this is a kind 21 of message that the conservation and environmental 22 organizations we represent would want to have made at 23 this time, because it's so attractive to look for this 24 short-term solution but it does pose a very large 25 dilemma. 26 (WITNESS ASIDE) 27 MR. SCOTT: Mr. Commissioner, 28 that concludes this afternoon's activities, and we'll 29 resume, if you please, at eight o'clock tonight. 30 THE COMMISSIONER: All right. Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6530

1 I think I should just say to counsel that Mr. Veale of 2 the Council of Yukon Indians made a motion before we 3 left Yellowknife, and he was supported by Foothills and 4 others, urging that the Inquiry hold hearings in the 5 Yukon to consider the impact of' the proposed Fairbanks 6 pipeline. 7 I have received a letter from 8 the Yukon Chamber of Commerce supporting the Council of 9 Yukon Indians. I'll bring the letter down and let you 10 all have copies of it this evening, and I would be 11 prepared to rule on the whole matter tomorrow rather 12 than wait till we return to Yellowknife so that you can 13 be aware of my present view as regards to the way the 14 matter should be disposed of. That's only subject to 15 this, that if we can telex whatever my ruling is to 16 Whitehorse concurrently with its delivery here as a 17 matter of courtesy so that they know what I've said 18 without relying on what might be fragmentary evidence 19 over the radio. I think that's all. 20 So we'll adjourn till eight 21 o'clock tonight. 22 (PROCEEDINGS ADJOURNED TO 8 P.M.) 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6531

1 (PROCEEDINGS RESUMED PURSUANT TO ADJOURNMENT) 2 THE COMMISSIONER: Ladies and 3 gentlemen, we'll call our hearing to order this 4 evening. 5 The Mackenzie Valley Pipeline 6 Inquiry is holding hearings in the main centres of 7 Southern Canada to consider the representations that 8 people like yourselves have to make about the vital 9 issues of national policy that lie before us all. As 10 you know, two companies, Canadian Arctic Gas and 11 Foothills Pipe Lines, are competing for the right to 12 build a pipeline to bring natural gas from the Arctic 13 Ocean to markets in Southern Canada and the United 14 States, 15 The Federal Government has 16 appointed this Inquiry to consider the social, economic 17 and environmental impact that the building of a 18 pipeline would have in Northern Canada, Now the 19 Federal Government has made it plain that we are not to 20 consider this proposed gas pipeline in isolation, The 21 Federal Government takes the view that we should 22 proceed on the assumption that if a gas pipeline is 23 built, an oil pipeline will follow. So we are 24 examining an energy corridor from the Arctic to the 25 mid-continent. 26 The Inquiry has been holding 27 formal hearings in Yellowknife for many months and 28 there we have been considering the evidence of the 29 experts, the scientists and engineers, the biologists, 30 the sociologists, and anthropologists, the economists, Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6532

1 people who come from the industry, from government, 2 from the universities, who have made it the work of 3 their lifetime to study the north and northern peoples, 4 and the northern environment. At those formal hearings 5 in Yellowknife representatives of all parties have the 6 opportunity to challenge what is said by any of these 7 experts, and to cross-examine them. 8 At those hearings the two 9 companies, Arctic Gas and Foothills, are represented by 10 counsel. The native organizations are also represented 11 by counsel. The environmental organizations, which are 12 led by Canadian Arctic Resources Committee, are 13 represented by counsel when the Inquiry is considering 14 environmental questions. The Northwest Territories 15 Association of Municipalities is represent d now that 16 we are considering the impact that the building of a 17 pipeline and the establishment of an energy corridor 18 would have on northern municipalities, and the 19 Northwest Territories Chamber of Commerce, which 20 represents northern business, will be represented when 21 we return to Yellowknife next month to consider the 22 impact on northern business. 23 So we are considering a great 24 many issues, having to do with the northern 25 environment, the northern economy, but most important 26 of all, northern people. 27 In the Mackenzie Valley, the 28 Mackenzie Delta and down the perimeter of the Beaufort 29 Sea and in the Northern Yukon we have four races of 30 people -- white, Indian, Métis, and Inuit and because Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6533

1 those are the people who will be most affected if we 2 proceed with the pipeline and energy corridor, the 3 Inquiry has been to virtually all of the communities 4 where those people live. We've been to2B cities and 5 towns, settlements, villages and outposts in the 6 Canadian north, and there we have heard from more than 7 700 witnesses of all races who have told the Inquiry 8 and through the Inquiry have been telling the 9 government and tiling all of us what their own lives 10 and experiences lead them to believe the impact of a 11 pipeline and energy corridor will be on them and on 12 their communities and in the north. 13 So we have spent 14 months in 14 Northern Canada holding hearings; and now we are 15 spending a month travelling to the main centres of 16 Southern Canada to consider what you have to say 17 because it is, of course, the patterns of energy 18 consumption of people who live here in Southern Canada, 19 your own appetite for oil and gas that have given rise 20 to proposals to build pipelines from the Arctic. 21 That being so, we felt it 22 only right and given the multitude of requests we had 23 from all over Canada by people who wished to make 24 representations to the Inquiry, that we should bring 25 the Inquiry to the main centres of Southern Canada, 26 I think that I should leave 27 it at that for now, and ask Mr. Waddell to let us know 28 who we'll hear first from this evening. 29 30 MR. WADDELL: Yes, Mr. Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6534

1 Commissioner, I should say that our procedure is to 2 hear from a number of briefs of people that have 3 indicated to us before May 1st that they would that 4 they were anxious to present a brief here tonight. 5 After we have heard from that list, if we have some 6 time we will try to fit in any additional briefs. 7 Our first brief tonight, sir, 8 will be from the Canadian Friends Service Committee, 9 the Quaker Committee for Native Concerns, Mr. Richard 10 Broughton. 11 Mr. Commissioner, as with our 12 witnesses in our northern hearings, we will ask the 13 witnesses here tonight to swear or affirm before they 14 give their briefs. 15 THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, sir? 16 17 RICHARD BROUGHTON sworn: 18 THE WITNESS: Thank you, Mr. 19 Commissioner. Since I am called on to speak first, 20 I would like to thank you for 21 your opening remarks and on behalf of all of us, for 22 the opportunity of presenting our points of view. 23 In this particular case, my 24 brief on behalf of the Quaker Committee for Native 25 Concerns is of a general nature and it isn't technical 26 and I would like to go ahead and read it accordingly, 27 "The earth is the Lord's, and the fullness 28 thereof, " 29 Any study of the Bible will 30 reveal how many times this sentiment is repeated, in Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6535

1 different ways, but always stressing that the earth, 2 the ultimate resource, is meant to be shared among all 3 the creation and today our modern concepts of land 4 ownership, by either states or individuals, require 5 reconsideration in that light. 6 We have stood by with 7 misgivings while the provinces have developed Urge 8 hydro resources on the Columbia and Peace Rivers, and 9 while vast tracts of land near James Bay and the Nelson 10 River are scheduled for changes so vast we cannot 11 envisage the consequences with anything less than 12 profound dismay and alarm. 13 We do not believe that the 14 consequential damage to the way of life, the 15 environment and the ecology of those living in the 16 Northwest Territories is justifiably for the short-term 17 benefits of a pipeline, and we urge upon the Federal 18 Government the duty to set others a good example by 19 respecting the native people's concepts of the 20 inviolability of mother earth. 21 We appreciate that energy is 22 now very expensive and new sources of energy are hard 23 to come by, but now is the time for a last stand 24 against monetary opportunism. 25 Canada is fortunate in 26 having vast spaces of territory, but we ask the 27 government to believe these last resources should be 28 used for the benefit of all mankind and not for the 29 narrow benefit of a privileged few. We therefore 30 take the side of the native people of this land, not Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6536

1 because we believe that the land belongs to them, but 2 because we believe that the pipeline would be nothing 3 better than a misuse of the land upon which they are 4 entitled to live, and which in their centuries of 5 occupation they have never destroyed but kept for us 6 all in perpetuity and in trust. 7 It is impossible to guess the 8 damage that may be done by oil spills, but we do know 9 that they occur so frequently that the wreckage of a 10 tanker in Spain this month, spilling 70, 000 tons of 11 oil, hardly makes the news, let alone the headlines. 12 The damage of these incidents 13 is cumulative and the seas are in serious danger. 14 Climatic changes are certain following the completion 15 of the James Bay project. These developments do little 16 or nothing to improve our desperate unemployment, and 17 Goldsmith's lines come to our minds: 18 "Ill fares the land to hastening ills a prey 19 Where wealth accumulates and men decay." 20 We therefore object to the 21 pipeline and to northern development generally on the 22 grounds that they are dangerous, non-productive, and 23 opportunistic. 24 It is a far cry from Ottawa, 25 Toronto and Montreal to the tundra of the north, and 26 therefore the bulk of our people tend to be apathetic, 27 on the grounds that they cannot be concerned with what 28 is proposed. It is, however, the duty of the 29 government with the good of its people at heart to make 30 a stand against this sort of development and not to Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6537

1 support and condone it. 2 You, Mr. Commissioner, have 3 had the benefit of close contact with the north and its 4 people, and we believe you have reached some of the 5 conclusions as set forth in this brief. We therefore 6 request the Commission to remember its contacts with 7 the north and to adhere to broad principles for the 8 benefit of our people, not of those who may seek to 9 exploit any part of them, particularly since the people 10 most vitally concerned are generally inarticulate and 11 not equipped to defend themselves from the 12 encroachments now suggested as beneficial in the name 13 of energy, but malignant in the name of the best of our 14 long-term interests, and particularly so to those 15 generations who succeed us, because surely it is of 16 them and not of ourselves for whom we should be most 17 concerned, 18 (WITNESS ASIDE) 19 MR. WADDELL: Mr. 20 Commissioner, I would like to add to our list a short 21 brief before we go on to Miss Gallop, and that is the 22 Canadian Council of Liberal Congregation Youth. The 23 brief will be read by Michael Abramsky, A-B-R-A-M-S-KY. 24 Mr. Abramsky? I should say that many of these young 25 people are here at our hearing tonight, sir. 26 27 MICHAEL ABRAMSKY affirmed: 28 THE WITNESS: Mr. Commissioner, 29 we, representing Canadian Reform Jewish Youth across 30 Ontario and Quebec, are pleased to be able to address Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6538

1 the Commission. It is hoped that by adding our voice to 2 that of other concerned Canadians, we can show our 3 support for the native people of the Northwest 4 Territories. 5 We are a people who know well 6 the importance of land. Our ties to our land are 7 ancient, and celebrated in history. So, too, are the 8 ties of the Dene and Inuit. 9 We are a people who know the 10 face of hatred too well. Too often have we seen our 11 fate decided by insensitive governments. 12 We are a people who care 13 about and worry over preservation of our culture. 14 We know what it is to watch traditions passed from parent 15 to child, and from child to grandchild. 16 We feel that we can empathize 17 with the native people of this country, and understand 18 their hopes and desires. 19 Therefore we respectfully 20 urge this Commission to recommend that the government 21 truly listen to the wishes of the Dene and Inuit and 22 that no pipeline be built before a just and equitable 23 land settlement is made with the native people of the 24 Northwest Territories. 25 We hope, sir, as Canadians 26 and as Jews, that this will be the last time that the 27 rights and culture any group will be threatened by 28 thoughtlessness and insensitivity. Thank you. 29 (SUBMISSION OF CANADIAN COUNCIL OF LIBERAL 30 CONGREGATIONS I. ABRAMSKY - MARKED EXHIBIT C-356 ) Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6539

1 (WITNESS ASIDE) 2 MR. WADDELL: Mr. 3 Commissioner, I'd like to file with you two briefs that 4 have been left with me. One is from Joyce Young, I 5 believe from Toronto; and the other one is from the 6 Spadina-Bloor-Bathurst Interchurch Council, and I'll 7 file these with the Inquiry secretary, Miss Hutchinson, 8 (SUBMISSION OF JOYCE YOUNG MARKED EXHIBIT C457) 9 (SUBMISSION OF SPADINA-BLOOR-BATHURST INTERCHURCH 10 COUNCIL MARKED EXHIBIT C-458) 11 MR. WADDELL: The next brief, 12 Mr. Commissioner, is from Miss Winona Gallop, and with 13 her is Mr. David Powell, 14 MISS WINONA GALLOP 15 DAVID POWELL sworn: 16 WITNESS POWELL: Mr. 17 Commissioner, as concerned Southern Canadians, we 18 appreciate this opportunity to present this brief to 19 the Commission. 20 We are opposed to the 21 building of a Mackenzie Valley Pipeline at this time 22 for two reasons: 23 1. Is that the decision to build a pipeline should be 24 delayed until the land claims of the native people are 25 settled. Any decision to build must recognize this 26 settlement, and the rights that it confers on the 27 native people to adequate involvement in such a 28 decision. 29 2. Is that there are too many unanswered questions 30 about the pipeline regarding its economic and Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6540

1 environmental impact, the necessity of acquiring 2 northern: n gas and oil in the first place, and the 3 quantity of northern reserves that are available. It 4 is in the best interests of Southern Canadians to take 5 the time required to answer these questions 6 satisfactorily before a decision is made. 7 Turning to the land claims 8 issue, let me begin by stating what we believe to be a 9 basic assumption about the human condition • This is 10 that it is vital to the health and well-being of both 11 individuals and groups within society that they 12 exercise a meaningful measure of control over their 13 lives. This control may be political, economic, legal, 14 social or cultural, and it differs for different people 15 and different societies. 16 If an individual or group has 17 been denied what it perceives as meaningful control, 18 that individual or group will become frustrated. This 19 frustration may lead to anger, manifested in rebellion 20 and even violence in an attempt to gain control; or 21 frustration will give way to pacifity, helplessness, 22 dependence, and eventually despair, , Human history 23 provides countless examples of these responses to a 24 lack of control. 25 How does this assumption 26 apply to this issue? The native peoples, the Dene and 27 Inuit, have cultures which are deeply rooted in their 28 relationship to the land. In order to have meaningful 29 control over their lives, the native peoples must 30 maintain their traditional access to the land. Loss of Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6541

1 control over access to the land would mean loss of 2 control over their lives, and loss of control over 3 their lives would mean a breakdown of their traditional 4 way of life. The appalling history of such social 5 breakdown in Canada since the arrival of the white man, 6 because of a lack of access to the land, speaks for 7 itself. 8 Therefore in order for the 9 native people to maintain control over access to their 10 land in the face of impending northern development, it 11 is essential that there is a satisfactory settlement to 12 their land claims. This settlement should provide the 13 legal controls necessary to protect their interests. 14 The settlement of native land 15 claims will take time. It is obvious that to decide to 16 build a pipeline or any other northern development 17 scheme , before this settlement and without proper 18 negotiations with and approval of the native peoples 19 would be legally and morally wrong; and yet there is 20 disturbing evidence that we are unwilling to wait. Our 21 rush to build this pipeline is based on the assumption 22 that we will face serious energy shortages within a few 23 years if we do not act right now. 24 However, there is no 25 agreement that this is the case. In fact, it would 26 appear that our haste to acquire northern gas and oil 27 is prompted not by the threat of great sacrifices in 28 our material well-being, but merely out of a reluctance 29 to change the way we do things, to conserve our energy 30 and develop energy alternatives now. We push forward Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6542

1 on pretty flimsy ground. 2 The manner in which Canada 3 handles the native land claims and northern development 4 issues will say much to the rest of the world about our 5 nation and its priorities. We live in a world of 6 increasing population, of increasing demands on an 7 ultimately finite pool of natural resources, and of 8 justifiably rising expectations among the majority of 9 the world's peoples who do not have an adequate share 10 of these resources. Rich countries such as Canada will 11 be under greater and greater pressure to curb their 12 consumption and share their wealth and knowledge, even 13 to the point of a reduction in living standards. 14 If we as Canadians are unwilling 15 to adapt our way of life to protect the cultural 16 integrity and rights of peoples within our own borders, 17 what will be our response to the demands from other 18 nations? The future demands trust and co-operation among 19 rich and poor nations if serious confrontations and 20 destruction are to be avoided, If Canada fails at home, 21 how can we hope to succeed internationally? 22 Thank you. 23 WITNESS GALLOP: Thank you for 24 hearing us, Judge Berger. 25 As David has said, our basic 26 hope is for a healthy human society. It is our belief 27 this hope is dependent in large part on the respect 28 afforded individuals and minorities, in exercising 29 control over their own lives. I support the native 30 peoples of Canada north in their insistence that the Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6543

1 use of their land be determined by themselves. I urge 2 the support of the Canadian Government in the cause of 3 a healthy human society of which those in the north are 4 a part, as are we in the south. 5 I see the settlement of 6 native land claims to their satisfaction to be in my 7 own best interests. It may be argued that the building 8 of a pipeline through the Mackenzie Valley to transport 9 gas and oil to the south where I live is in my best 10 interest. I hate the cold, and value the quick , easy, 11 cheap and abundant heat of my gas furnace. So my 12 initial response would probably be one of agreement, 13 Pausing for a moment, however, there are some questions 14 about my best interests over the longer run, and my 15 general hope with society. 16 First of all, how will the 17 decision be made to build or not to build? And if it's 18 to build, who will do the work? Will there be consensus 19 between differing interests so that no one group wins 20 entirely to the loss of another? Or there will be a 21 power squeeze out of which the loser is left with no 22 option but sabotage, violence, or death. 23 My next question has to do 24 with cost, as I am certain to be involved as a Canadian 25 taxpayer, like it or not. The financial outlay is said 26 to be the largest investment ever. How much is it 27 going to cost to get how much back? The same question 28 of dollar value must be asked of the resource itself. 29 Is the real energy return sufficiently high to warrant 30 the energy expenditure that we must make to discover Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6544

1 and transport Arctic gas and oil? Supplies of fossil 2 fuels are finite and we must not be profligate with the 3 remainder of the resource. There does not seem to he a 4 firm analysis of what we can expect to discover in the 5 north, and because of the unusual nature of the terrain 6 through which the pipeline must pass, the building 7 techniques and requirements must also be nebulous. 8 This does not sound like a blue chip investment to me. 9 We all know that Canada and 10 the United States have a great appetite for gas and 11 oil. You said it, Judge Berger • That at least is one 12 certainty in a swarm of unknowns. This brings me to my 13 final question in assessing my own best interests with 14 respect to the pipeline. 15 If sooner than later my 16 appetite is going to be sharply regulated by available 17 supplies, I would like to know it now before I become 18 even more hopelessly addicted by the easy-come easy-go 19 consumer lifestyle. The society I am part of spends 20 energy resources literally as if there is no tomorrow, 21 and I would like to believe there will be one. 22 The writing is becoming 23 clearer on the gas bills that things are changing. The 24 heat from my gas furnace no longer seems to quick, 25 easy, chap and abundant. Some of us are beginning to 26 consider the possibilities of conserving what is left 27 of the fossil fuels by being more careful about our 28 consumption so there will be something left to develop 29 alternative sources of renewable energy with. It will 30 take fossil fuel energy to construct even the simplest Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6545

1 of wind or solar generator. It's no good thinking we 2 can clean our energy-cupboard bare and then switch 3 instantly to a new diet. 4 What my best interest seems 5 to come down to, Judge Berger, is time. These hearings 6 individuals over the last year where and minorities are 7 being given time to express their views are a bona fide 8 mechanism for northern people and for me to exercise 9 some control over our lives. Control in this case may 10 simply be the time it takes to talk, Because it takes 11 time to consider the complexity of elements in the 12 Mackenzie Valley Pipeline issue, gas and oil are 13 stalled from becoming immediately available for us to 14 guzzle our way through. 15 In short, Judge Berger, I 16 believe the time it takes for us to get the feel of a 17 little scarcity to begin making the connections between 18 cheque book, Cadillac, pipeline and oil source is a 19 good thing... This time may save us the necessity the 20 of learning/harder facts of cold, darkness and hunger, 21 the certain result of a technological society gone 22 broke in one last mad energy binge. 23 Thank you, 24 (WITNESSES ASIDE) 25 MR. WADDELL: Sir, the next 26 presentation is by Mr. Ronald Lougheed, vice-president, 27 Consumers Gas Company. 28 29 RONALD S. LOUGHEED sworn: 30 THE WITNESS: Mr. Commissioner, Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6546

1 my name is Ronald S. Lougheed. I am vice-president, gas 2 supply, of the Consumers Gas Company. On behalf of 3 Consumers I should like to express my appreciation for the 4 opportunity to present our submission to this Inquiry. 5 The Consumers Gas Company, 6 sir, directly and through subsidiary corporations, is 7 engaged in the distribution of natural gas to 8 residential, commercial and industrial customers in 9 areas of central and eastern Ontario, principally 10 greater Metropolitan Toronto, the Niagara Peninsula, 11 Ottawa and Brockville, and in addition the City of Hull, 12 Quebec, and adjacent municipalities and the St. 13 Lawrence County in northern New York State, Consumers is 14 one of Canada's largest distributors of natural gas, 15 with sales of 311 billion cubic feet to 491,000 16 customers during its 1975 fiscal year. The areas served 17 by Consumers in Ontario and Quebec have a population 18 exceeding four million people, more than 18% of Canada's 19 total population, and include the greatest concentration 20 of industry, people and purchasing power in Canada. 21 In addition, directly and 22 through associated corporations, such, as Home Oil 23 Company Limited and its subsidiaries and associates, 24 Consumers is engaged in the exploration for and the 25 production of and transportation of crude oil, natural 26 gas and natural gas liquids, and in the underground 27 storage and marketing of natural gas liquids, and in 28 the underground storage of natural gas. Both Consumers 29 and home oil are members of Delta 5, which is 30 participating in a drilling program in the Mackenzie Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6547

1 Delta and the Beaufort Basin area. 2 Consumers is wholly dependent 3 upon Canadian sources for its natural gas supply, al 4 most all of which it purchases from TransCanada 5 Pipeline Limited, At the present time Consumers is not 6 able to obtain contracts for volumes of natural gas 7 over and above the 1974-75 contract levels. In 8 Consumers' opinion natural gas from frontier areas such 9 as the Mackenzie River Delta and Beaufort Basin must be 10 connected to the markets of Consumers and others as 11 soon as possible if the natural gas requirements of 12 those markets are to be satisfied. 13 The necessity of securing an 14 adequate future supply of natural gas at a reasonable 15 cost, to satisfy the growing energy requirements of its 16 market areas, led Consumers to join the Gas Arctic 17 Northwest Project Study Group in December, 1972. 18 Consumers believes that the Arctic Gas proposal 19 represents the most viable and economic transmission 20 system presently advanced to connect Mackenzie River 21 Delta and Beaufort Basin gas reserves to markets in 22 Southern Canada in an orderly and timely fashion. 23 Consumers has conditionally agreed to invest up to $68 24 million in the equity of Canadian Arctic Gas Pipeline 25 Limited, to aid in financing the Canadian portion of 26 the Arctic Gas system. 27 As an intervenor in the 28 hearing now being conducted by the National Energy Board 29 and the Federal Power Commission to consider the Arctic 30 Gas and competing proposals, Consumers recognizes that Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6548

1 questions of natural gas supply and requirements, as 2 well as those of economic feasibility and of public 3 convenience and necessity, are matters for those 4 tribunals to determine. 5 The Mackenzie Valley Pipeline 6 Inquiry has been charged by the Government of Canada to 7 enquire into and to report upon the terms and 8 conditions that, in its opinion, should be imposed in 9 respect of any right-of-way granted across Crown lands 10 in the Yukon and Northwest Territories for the purposes 11 of the proposed pipeline. If Canada is to continue to 12 grow and prosper, to the benefit of all Canadians, the 13 natural gas reserves in its north must be connected to 14 the markets in its south, which require that new source 15 of energy. If the terms and conditions recommended by 16 this Inquiry are unduly onerous, for example as to the 17 timing and method of construction and operation of the 18 proposed pipeline, Consumers fears that the feasibility 19 of the project will be eroded or even destroyed to the 20 detriment of Canada and all Canadians, whether they be 21 resident in the north or in the south. 22 Consumers appreciates that 23 this Inquiry is to have regard to the social, 24 environmental and economic impact in the Yukon and the 25 Northwest Territories of the construction, operation 26 and subsequent abandonment of the pipeline. The impact 27 of the pipeline on Canada's north is indeed of concern 28 to all Canadians, and the great preponderance of the 29 evidence adduced before this Inquiry has dealt with 30 that subject. Concern for the north, however, should Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6549

1 not and must not prohibit an equally full and complete 2 assessment of the impact of the pipeline in Southern 3 Canada. One area of this country must not be viewed in 4 isolation, to the benefit or detriment of other areas, 5 In Consumers' view, a full and complete assessment must 6 include consideration of the consequences to Southern 7 Canada of failure to construct this pipeline in an 8 orderly and timely fashion. 9 It is Consumers' opinion that 10 the continued growth and prosperity of Canada as a 11 whole is dependent upon the availability of adequate 12 supplies of energy at a reasonable cost. Connection of 13 the Mackenzie River Delta and Beaufort Basin gas 14 reserves to southern markets via the Arctic Gas system, 15 at the earliest possible time, will aid Canada's 16 balance of payments position by generating transmission 17 revenues from the United States and decreasing Canada's 18 dependence on foreign hydrocarbon energy supplies, thus 19 enhancing continued growth of Canada's economy to the 20 benefit of all Canadians. 21 Consumers' market areas, with a 22 population of more than four million people and a great 23 concentration of industry, are reliant upon energy for 24 their continued welfare. A large segment of those energy 25 requirements is provided by natural gas in all sectors of 26 the market -- residential, commercial and industrial. 27 Recognizing that imprudent and inefficient use of all 28 energy sources must be discontinued, Consumers has 29 implemented programs designed to encourage all classes of 30 its customers to conserve natural gas. Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6550

1 It is, however, too early to 2 measure the impact of conservation on the historic level 3 of energy consumption. Change to a conserver society 4 will not be immediate, no matter how great the 5 motivation. Indeed, any abrupt change in energy 6 consumption patterns would have a severe repercussion on 7 both economic and social. Even with conservation, as 8 Canada's economy expands, energy requirements will grow 9 This fact remains, if Canada is to maintain and hopefully 10 increase its economic well-being, the new source of 11 energy contained in the gas reserves of the Mackenzie 12 River Delta and Beaufort Basin area must be connected to 13 markets in Southern Canada at the earliest possible 14 opportunity. Furthermore, timely access to Markets is a 15 fundamental prerequisite to continued exploration for and 16 development of hydrocarbons in that area, to provide a 17 continuing source of energy for Canada. 18 It is apparent to Consumers 19 that terms and conditions for the pipeline designed 20 solely to serve the interests of Canada's north, without 21 regard to the interests of other Canadians, will not 22 benefit and may severely harm Canada as a nation and all 23 of its people. The desire of native people and others 24 resident in the north to protect and maintain their 25 lifestyle and to secure a just and reasonable settlement 26 of land claims is no more legitimate than is the desire 27 of those residents in the south to protect and maintain 28 their lifestyle and to secure adequate supplies of 29 energy at a reasonable cost. 30 THE COMMISSIONER: Order. Carry Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6551

1 on. 2 THE WITNESS: Resolution of 3 one must not impair resolution of the other. 4 In summary, sir, Consumers 5 believe that expeditious construction and operation of 6 the Arctic Gas Pipeline under terms and conditions 7 which reasonably satisfy the legitimate concerns and 8 interests of both north and south, is vital and 9 necessary to serve Canada as a nation and to benefit 10 all Canadians. 11 Thank you, sir. 12 (SUBMISSION BY CONSUMERS GAS COMPANY - R.S. LOUGHEED - 13 MARKED EXHIBIT C-459) 14 (WITNESS ASIDE) 15 MR. WADDELL: Sir, the next 16 witnesses are Anna Bulpitt and Mary Gunn, representing 17 the Student Christian Movement of Canada. 18 MISS ANNA BULPITT 19 MISS MARY GUNN sworn: 20 WITNESS GUNN: Mr. 21 Commissioner, first of all I'd like to thank you for 22 being able to speak this evening. 23 This brief is being presented 24 by the Student Christian Movement of Canada, in 25 conjunction with the Student Christian Movement in the 26 University of Toronto. While this brief represents the 27 views of these two groups alone, other Student Christian 28 government (or S.C.M.) units are involved in presenting 29 briefs of their own, The S.C.M. is a student-run 30 organization, located on 15 university campi across Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6552

1 Canada, and with a national office here in Toronto. 2 The Movement was founded in 3 the 20s after a decision to dissolve the Y.M./Y.M.C.A. 4 on campus and establish an autonomous Christian group, 5 The S.C.M. is financed by Canadian churches, university 6 faculty, and friends and graduates of the Movement. 7 The S.C.M. emphasizes the 8 biblical tradition, which consistently describes God's 9 Presence with the poor and oppressed, and their 10 struggle for justice. We believe that Christians today 11 must be responsible for actively concerning themselves 12 with situations of injustice wherever they exist. 13 Within this Christian context, 14 however, we refuse to be confined simply to a moralistic 15 response to the issue of native land clams in the 16 Northwest Territories and a proposed Mackenzie Valley 17 Pipeline. Rather, we speak out of specific economic and 18 political concerns which will be developed in our brief. 19 The historical treatment of 20 native people in Canada has reflected patterns of 21 colonialism and economic exploitation. 22 In light of their historical 23 experience, Canada's native people have come to realize 24 that their future as a nation depends on their right to 25 self-determination and local control. 26 The two viewpoints that we as 27 Southern Canadians wish to express are: 28 1. As consumers and 2. As citizens. 29 As consumers we have many 30 doubts and questions about the information available Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6553

1 concerning reserves of oil and gas. The discrepancies 2 in statistics reflect a deliberate attempt to 3 manipulate public opinion. 4 "In 1971, Joe Greene, then Minister of Energy, 5 Mines & Resources, told the Canadian people that 6 Canada had 923 years' supply of oil, and 392 7 years' supply of natural gas, and that we had 8 better expand our exports before alternative en- 9 ergy sources made this fuel obsolete. In 1974 10 just three years later, the National Energy Board 11 was telling us that we would have to start im- 12 porting oil by 1982." 13 In 1972, the oil market in 14 the United States was opening up. In order to obtain 15 permits to export, oil and gas companies in Canada had 16 to ensure that there were ample reserves in Canada for 17 at least 25 years. To create a need for northern oil 18 and gas, both industry and the National Energy Board 19 have reported that reserves are presently insufficient. 20 Both industry and government rationale for a pipeline 21 has been to meet Canadian needs. We question whose 22 needs this pipeline is meeting. 23 "Up to 1974, U.S. utilities and gas distributors 24 had advanced several hundred million dollars for 25 recent exploration in Canadian frontier areas (as 26 well as Alberta) in return for a first call on all 27 or a part of any discovered gas." 28 In return for these advances, 29 gas from the Arctic has already been promised to U.S. 30 firms up to the tune of some 30 trillion cubic feet. Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6554

1 How will Canadian consumers be further affected by this 2 type of economic development? The Federal Government 3 and the media have blamed rising inflation on increased 4 wage demands by labor. Little attention has been given 5 to the effects on the rate of inflation of a mass 6 influx of foreign capital. The millions of dollars 7 involved in foreign financing of such resource 8 development result in increased inflation and a 9 worsened position for Canadian exports abroad. 10 As citizens, we are concerned 11 with the social and environmental costs which would 12 result from the proposed pipeline. There has been 13 little research conducted into energy conservation or 14 the ecological costs involved. The nature of the 15 Arctic environment is little understood. What are 16 going to be the environmental guidelines and safeguards 17 placed on oil and gas company operations? What would 18 the consequences of massive pollution be to a people 19 whose livelihood depends on hunting, trapping and 20 fishing? We feet that it is in the public interest to 21 have adequate answers to these questions prior to any 22 further decisions about northern development. 23 At an S.C.M. Conference in 24 December, 1975, Professor Michael Ash of the University 25 of Toronto -- of the University of Alberta -- warned of 26 negative social implications of the pipeline. The 27 social structures of the north are potentially fragile 28 with the people scattered in small, isolated 29 communities. The presence of a labor camp of 3,000 30 southern skilled workers would have serious consequences Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6555

1 for a native community of 150 people. 2 In the Dene Declaration, the 3 Dene of the Northwest Territories define a just land 4 settlement as, 5 "independence and self-determination within Can- 6 ada, " 7 The Dene believe that living 8 off the land is still a viable option in the delta 9 region. To protect their traditional way of life, the 10 Dene must be recognized as a distinct nation within 11 Canada, with the right to self-determination. This 12 must include control over resource development, 13 government, and education of their children. 14 With respect to this 15 presentation on the issue of land claims and a proposed 16 Mackenzie Valley Pipeline, we wish to make the 17 following recommendations: 18 1. That there be a moratorium on resource development 19 in the Northwest Territories until native land claims 20 have been recognized and settlements made to the 21 satisfaction of native people. 22 2. That the native people have total control over 23 future resource development in the north in order to 24 build an economy based on their own needs and 25 experiences. 26 3. That there be a reevaluation of national energy 27 policy with full public participation to determine 28 energy needs and alternatives. 29 4. That there be full public disclosure of any future 30 resource development schemes including their social and Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6556

1 environmental costs. 2 Thank you. 3 (WITNESSES ASIDE) 4 MR. WADDELL: Sir, the next 5 submission is by the C.J.L. Foundation presented by 6 John Olthuis and Gerald Vandezande, 7 8 JOHN A OLTHUIS 9 GERALD VANDEZANDE sworn: 10 WITNESS OLTHUIS: Mr. 11 Commissioner, my name is John Olthuis. I am the 12 research and policy director of the Committee for 13 Justice & Liberty Foundation. With me is Gerald 14 Vandezande, the executive director. 15 The C.J.L. Foundation, Mr. 16 Commissioner, is a non-denominational Christian public 17 interest group of 1, 100 individual Canadians. We 18 attempt to make a contribution to the ongoing political 19 economic and social discussion in Canada on the basis 20 of the Christian Biblical principles of justice, 21 compassion, love and stewardship, and by "love" we mean 22 love for our neighbors down the street, love for our 23 native northern neighbors, and love for peoples around 24 the world. 25 Our brief, Mr. Commissioner, 26 represents the -- some of the results of a research 27 project that was directed towards drafting a just energy 28 policy for Canada, Many C.J.L. members and interested 29 Canadians have contributed to that brief through 30 workshops, conferences, and responses to written Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6557

1 material. Unfortunately, due to the length of the brief, 2 we will only be able to summarize it this evening, but we 3 do hope, Mr. Commissioner, that you will have the 4 opportunity of reading the brief in its entirety. 5 Mr. Vandezande will now 6 present a summary of the written submission. 7 WITNESS VANDEZANDE: Mr. 8 Commissioner, the Committee for Justice & Liberty 9 Foundation believes that the Government of Canada would 10 make a colossal blunder if it approved the construction 11 of the Mackenzie Valley Natural Gas Pipeline. The 12 construction of this pipeline would lock Canadians into a 13 pattern of northern development that will enforce the 14 very value system that has proved so destructive of our 15 lifestyle. 16 Canada needs a 10-year 17 moratorium on a decision with respect to the proposed 18 pipeline and on all other proposals to transport 19 frontier oil and natural gas south. 20 The moratorium period is 21 required if Parliament and the Canadian public are to 22 engage in the kind of informed discussion and thorough 23 decision-making that this critical matter requires. 24 A 10-year delay need not result 25 in domestic gas shortages, provided that the government 26 makes responsible decisions from the available actions. 27 Domestic gas supply and deliverability is secure for 34 28 years, until 2010. Therefore we won't freeze in the 29 dark, as some politicians and the energy companies have 30 suggested. Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6558

1 The National Energy Board 2 estimates that Canada's established non-frontier gas 3 reserves alone are sufficient to meet growing domestic 4 demands and existing export commitments for no less than 5 17 years. Conservation by waste elimination and by a 6 reduction in domestic use would add seven more years. 7 The National Energy Board could also divert for domestic 8 purposes 10 trillion cubic feet of gas earmarked 9 for export to the United States, the equivalent of 10 another seven years of gas supply at 1974-75 consumption 11 rates. 12 Finally, the Alberta 13 Government has offered to release the 30-year supply it 14 maintains prior to exporting gas to the other 15 provinces. Acceptance of this offer would add 16 approximately three years to future supplies. 17 The adoption of this five 18 point package is much more responsible than a panic 19 motivated decision to immediately build the pipeline. 20 The 10-year moratorium is critical because it would 21 allow Canadians sufficient time to determine by which 22 basic values they want to develop as a people. 23 The Mackenzie Valley Pipeline 24 proposal and the pattern of northern development which 25 it advocates are based on, the very economic growth 26 values that are now being seriously questioned. The 27 corporate value system which considers economic need of 28 primary importance, and human needs of secondary 29 importance, as problems to be cleared up preferably by 30 money and preferably while the caterpillar and Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6559

1 trenching machines are rumbling on, is totally 2 unacceptable to C.J.L. C.J.L. believes that the 3 emerging human growth values should replace the 4 economic growth ideals, which is fading. WE suggest 5 that the meeting of a multi-pronged human need test 6 must become the condition precedent for approval of 7 projects like the pipeline. The test should recognize 8 no less than eight needs, all of which should be met to 9 determine whether or not the pipeline should he built. 10 The first need is the 11 promotion of human well-being instead of economic and 12 material advantage of the private multinational 13 petroleum companies that control and gain excessive 14 profits from the development of public resources. The 15 human wellbeing of all should have priority over the 16 economic elite whose consumption habits are fed at the 17 expense and to the detriment of the vast majority of 18 Canadians. 19 The pipeline application 20 filed by Canadian Arctic Gas to the National Energy 21 Board is a good example of the economic growth above 22 all else value system. We refer you to CAGPLs own 23 testimony to the National Energy Board, and I quote: 24 "CAGPL is of the opinion that the demand-supply 25 situation by itself provides a fundamental. basis 26 for concluding that the proposed pipeline is in 27 the national interest and indeed, that it should 28 be considered a national economic priority. This 29 is predicated on the assumption that the tradi- 30 tional objectives associated with achieving eco- Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6560

1 nomic growth will continue to prevail." 2 The energy companies are more 3 than willing to accept any conditions that the 4 government might attach to permission to build a 5 pipeline, s long as the conditions affect the basic - 6 do not affect the basic framework which gives priority 7 to economic goals, and as long as the conditions can be 8 met by the payment of money. As long as the framework 9 remains, every project that is financially feasible 10 will be approved, regardless of whether or not it 11 contributes to the satisfaction of human needs. As 12 long as conditions such as the settlement of native 13 land claims and environment protection can be settled 14 with money, the energy companies will be co-operative, 15 even eager to do so, because the money will readily be 16 provided by higher prices for fuel and more generous, 17 tax, royalty provisions from the government, In other 18 words, by compulsory extraction from the people of 19 Canada. 20 The second heed deals with 21 the need to determine Canada's future domestic demand 22 for energy on the basis of stable economic growth, the 23 conservation of non-renewable resources, and the 24 development of renewable energy resources. 25 The third need is that 26 natural gas, a non-renewable fuel, should supply an 27 increasing 1~ smaller percentage of our total energy 28 demand and renewable energy sources should supply an 29 increasingly larger percentage of that demand. 30 The fourth need concerns the Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6561

1 United States, It should be encouraged to do likewise, 2 namely, practice conservation, by facing it with a 3 drastic reduction in exports of Canadian gas, if 4 necessary, 5 C.J.L. also considers it 6 essential that proven reserves in the north do indeed 7 justify a pipeline, if southern reserves are actually 8 shown to be inadequate to meet normative demand 9 projections. 10 The government should also 11 respect the needs of the native people, including their 12 rights to a just non-pressured settlement of their land 13 claims without extinguishment of title and within the 14 framework set out in the Dene Declaration, 15 Finally, there is a need to 16 ensure beyond any reasonable doubt that the fragile 17 northern ecosystem will not be adversely affected by 18 the building of a pipeline and related activities. 19 C.J.L. recommends that the 20 moratorium period be used to conduct public enquiries 21 similar to your own Inquiry with respect to the following. 22 1. The supply and deliverability of Canada's south of 23 60 conventional oil and gas reserves; 24 2. The competence of the National Energy Board to 25 protect the public interest in matters of resource 26 development; 27 3. The ownership, profit, tax and royalty aspects of 28 petroleum companies that operate in Canada. 29 Implicit in our request for 30 enquiries is our lack of confidence in the National Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6562

1 Energy Board's competence to adequately and 2 independently represent the public interest. Our lack 3 of confidence is justified, we believe, because the 4 people of Canada have not been given a rational 5 explanation of the National Energy Board's dramatic 6 switch from its abundant oil and gas reserves pre-1974 7 position, to its imminent shortages post-1974 position. 8 What certainty is there, we 9 ask, that the established conventional deliverability 10 problem 1975 position will not switch to a no-establish 11 ad conventional deliverability problem position once 12 Canadian frontier gas is onstream? We question whether 13 it is responsible to rely on the National Energy Board' 14 calculations, It appears to us that the Board either 15 relies completely on managed data supplied by the 16 energy industry, or it is obviously incompetent to 17 interpret the industry's raw data for the public 18 interest. 19 With respect to the suggested 20 enquiry into the petroleum companies' financial 21 affairs, the people of Canada are entitled to a full 22 accounting of past performance prior to entrusting the 23 private and predominantly foreign controlled 24 multinationals with this massive project, the largest 25 in Canadian history. 26 Perhaps of most importance 27 from C.J.L.'s vantage point is that the 10-year 28 moratorium should be used for the development of a new 29 national energy policy for Canada. We believe that the 30 question or the need for frontier gas must be decided Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6563

1 on the basis of an energy policy which expresses 2 conserver rather than consumption value. The question 3 of public necessity and convenience can no longer be 4 answered in terms of the economic growth values that 5 have governed our country since World War II. It must 6 be answered in terms of human growth values. We 7 believe, therefore, that Canada's national energy 8 policy should emerge with the following objectives: 9 1. A substantial reduction in the increase in the per 10 capita growth of energy consumed in Canada through both 11 waste elimination and demand reduction programs. 12 2. A concerted national effort to develop alternative 13 sources of energy. 14 3. honoring the rights of native Canadians with 15 respect to the involvement of their land and culture, 16 in projects designed to provide fuel for southern 17 consumption. 18 4. Full satisfaction that the ecosystem will not be 19 adversely affected prior to the commencement of any 20 energy project. 21 5. The setting of just royalty and tax provisions to 22 ensure that private companies develop public resources 23 for public, rather than private benefit. 24 6. The equitable use of natural resource revenues to 25 enhance total human well-being. 26 7. Rapid curtailment and eventual stoppage of oil and 27 gas exports to the United States. 28 8. Last but not least, the export of energy at below 29 international prices to struggling Third World 30 countries. Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6564

1 We believe this energy policy expresses a firm 2 determination to engage in the stewardly management of 3 Canada's natural resources. For some two years now the 4 C.J.L. Foundation has advocated the need for a full 5 public discussion about whether Canada should continue 6 its unthinking commitment to the erroneous belief that 7 human happiness increases in direct proportion to 8 economic growth. 9 In addition to the rapid and 10 wasteful depletion of non-renewable natural resources, 11 which this one dimensional commitment to a quantity 12 lifestyle brings, we submit it also makes a direct 13 contribution to increasing human misery as development 14 of inter-personal relationships and the deepening of 15 social and cultural awareness are ignored for the sake 16 of economic growth. 17 Mr. Commissioner, Canada is in 18 a stage of transition. We must take the time to reflect 19 on the present and to determine our future lifestyle; 20 and time requires a moratorium on massive projects like 21 the Mackenzie Valley Pipeline which are based on the 22 very values that are now being questioned by so many 23 Canadians. Accordingly, we urge you to recommend such a 24 moratorium to the Government of Canada. 25 Last Monday's "Globe & Mail" 26 said that, 27 "Toronto is geographically and spiritually as 28 far from the north as you can get." 29 Tuesday night you said, 30 "It may well be what happens in the north and to Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6565

1 northern people will tell us what kind of people 2 we are." 3 Tonight the C.J.L. Foundation 4 sincerely hopes that future generations will have every 5 reason to say, "The Canadian people of the '70s, even 6 those living in Toronto, became a new kind of people, 7 they adopted the new values of, justice and love, 8 stewardship and compassion. Therefore they rejected 9 the fading values of exploitation and materialism. 10 They voted for a quality way of life for all people, 11 including the native people. Therefore they voted 12 against the pipeline which did not serve the well-being 13 of humanity." 14 Thank you, Mr. Commissioner. 15 (SUBMISSION OF C.J.L. FOUNDATION - OLTHUIS & VINDEZANDE 16 - MARKED EXHIBIT C-460) 17 (WITNESSES ASIDE) 18 MR. WADDELL: Mr. 19 Commissioner, the C.J.L. Foundation has also provided 20 me with a more extensive brief which I'll file with the 21 Inquiry' secretary. Before we break or coffee, perhaps 22 we could have one more presentation by Mr. Quinto Fern, 23 other Inter-Faith Study Group. 24 25 QUINTO FERRI sworn: 26 THE WITNESS: Mr. 27 Commissioner, I want to thank you for giving our group 28 the opportunity to make this presentation. 29 We, the Interchurch World 30 Development Study Group of Brampton and area, support Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6566

1 in general the entire brief of Project North 2 Interchurch Report on Northern Development. This 3 brief, sir, hasn't been presented yet. It will be 4 presented in Ottawa in June. 5 We especially want to 6 emphasize the following, that a moral decision is 7 involved, not merely one of political or economic 8 expediency; that a moratorium of 10 to 15 years is 9 necessary. 10 With regard to the moral 11 question we must consider that the plight of the native 12 people is a cause for shame to all Canadians, The Dene 13 claim is based on intensive use of the land by them and 14 their ancestors from time immemorial. Two-thirds of the 15 total native labor farce depend on fur trapping and 16 caribou hunting as a primary source of cash income. 17 These activities are endangered by large-scale 18 development. The land has never been validly surrendered 19 by treaty. Therefore we urge that the land claims be 20 settled before development of the area is started. 21 Instead of exploiting 22 northern resources hastily and recklessly to satisfy 23 the demand of our consumer society, we should emphasize 24 conservation of our current resources. The Canadian 25 public deserve and should demand honesty from the 26 Federal Government concerning the amount of energy 27 still available. We question the immediacy of the need 28 for oil and gas from the Mackenzie Delta, 29 It is vital that citizens 30 have a sense of the government's responsiveness to Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6567

1 their concerns and objectives. Southern Canadians have 2 been encouraged by the recognition of their concerns 3 through the delay of the construction of the Spadina 4 expressway and the Pickering Airport as the result of 5 organized protests. We believe that the native people 6 should not have to accept paternalistic decisions made 7 by outsiders, but should have the experience of 8 influencing government decisions. 9 A moratorium on development 10 is essential to achieve several objectives. It would 11 provide time to settle the native land claims before 12 any construction began, to ensure that the ecology 13 would be adequately protected, and to consult the 14 native people of the north whose understanding of the 15 land has never been considered, and to explore 16 alternative forms of energy. 17 No Canadian will escape 18 adverse results of unwise large-scale development, 19 Pipeline construction could cause massive inflation. 20 Our tax dollars which could be spent in more useful 21 ways -- health care, education would be used to finance 22 a questionable gigantic project with the profits going 23 south of the border -- of our border. 24 In conclusion, we feel the 25 government must listen to the native people as they 26 demand the right to participate as equals in the future 27 economy and society of Canada. Sir, if ever there was 28 a time that the language of ethics should be made part 29 of the language of politics, that time has surely 30 arrived. Thank you. Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6568

1 (SUBMISSION BY INTERCHURCH WORLD DEVELOPMENT STUDY 2 GROUP - Q. FERRI MARKED EXHIBIT C-461) 3 (WITNESS ASIDE) 4 THE COMMISSIONER: Ladies and 5 gentlemen, before we break for coffee, let me just say 6 that this Inquiry will not be deciding whether a 7 pipeline is to be built and an energy corridor 8 established, That is for the Government of Canada, for 9 the people who have the confidence of Parliament to 10 determine, and when they make that decision, they will 11 have before them my report dealing with the impact -- 12 social, economic and environmental -- of the pipeline 13 and energy corridor on Northern Canada; but questions 14 relating to gas supply, how much gas is there in the 15 Mackenzie Delta and the Beaufort sea, questions 16 relating to Canada's gas requirements now and in the 17 future, how much gas will Canadians consume in the 18 years to come, what -- can we afford to export any gas, 19 all of those questions relating to gas supply and 20 Canadian gas requirements and so on are questions that 21 will -- that are being considered by the National 22 Energy Board because it is responsible under the 23 National Energy Board Act, to advise the government on 24 those questions. 25 So that the government will 26 have before it my report dealing with the impact on 27 Northern Canada, of the proposed development, and the 28 report of the National Energy Board dealing with 29 Canadian gas supply and gas requirements, and then the 30 government will have to make up its mind on the basis Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6569

1 of those two reports, and that is, of course, as it 2 should be in a democratic country. Those elected to 3 govern should determine these questions of national 4 policy. 5 So we'll adjourn for ten 6 minutes and then come back and hear the remainder of 7 the briefs. 8 (PROCEEDINGS ADJOURNED FOR TEN MINUTES) 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6570

1 (PROCEEDINGS RESUMED PURSUANT TO ADJOURNMENT) 2 THE COMMISSIONER: We'll come 3 to order again and carry on, and Mr. Roland will let us 4 know who's going to be addressing us now and we'll be 5 sure to give them our full attention. 6 MR. ROLAND: Yes, sir, The 7 next presentation is by Mr. Leroy Little Bear of the 8 Centre for American Indian Studies, University of 9 Lethbridge, Lethbridge, Alberta. While Mr. Little Bear 10 is being sworn and preparing himself, he's also 11 presented me with another brief which I'll file as an 12 exhibit with the Inquiry secretary. 13 LEROY LITTLE BEAR sworn: 14 THE WITNESS: Your honour, 15 firstly , I would like to say that I very much 16 appreciate this opportunity to appear before your 17 Committee and secondly, my presentation has an 18 underlining goal: to make non-Indian people better 19 understand and have great? appreciation of Indian 20 culture, of the basic philosophy of native people, so 21 that they could better understand some of the property 22 concepts that native people have, hopefully in turn to 23 appreciate the reasons why and the basis for some of the 24 land claims that are being forwarded by the native 25 people today in Canada. 26 Presently in Canada the issue 27 of aboriginal rights, Indian title, and land claims by 28 the Indian people are issues that to the people of 29 Canada are major issues and major concerns. These 30 issues are of a major concern not only because if Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6571

1 recognized as legitimate and legal, it means the 2 payment of large sums of money by the people of Canada 3 to the natives of this country, but they also have 4 implications for the development and exploitation of 5 the natural resources, especially oil and gas, and for 6 the ecology. But so far, the Canadian Government, nor 7 the people at large, have come to grips with these 8 issues. It is probably more correct to say that they 9 do not want to come to grips with these issues. 10 The Courts of Canada have had 11 several opportunities to deal with the issues, but not 12 unlike the government, they, too, have avoided dealing 13 directly with the issues. They find one technicality 14 or another to dismiss a case. 15 In regards to land, 16 aboriginal rights includes native title, and land 17 claims almost exclusively deals with the issue of 18 native title. In this short paper, in this submission, 19 the writer will attempt to present a concept of native 20 title for purposes of educating those people who are in 21 a position to do something about land claims. 22 Three recent Court decisions 23 have attempted to deal with native title: Calder v. 24 Attorney General of British Columbia, referred to in 25 layman's terms as the "Nishga Case"; Kanatewat v. 26 James Bay Development Corporation, and its sequel, 27 James Bay Development Corporation v. Kanatewat, better 28 known as the James Bay Cases; and In Re Paulette and 29 the Registrar of Land Titles, 30 In the Calder case, the Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6572

1 Supreme Court of Canada held against the Nishga Indians 2 of British Columbia. Their holding was to the effect 3 that if the Nishgas had title, this title had long ago 4 been extinguished by adverse acts on the part of the 5 British Crown. The Court, also, reasoned that Indian 6 title does not exist independent of legislation 7 recognizing it. But the Court did not define native 8 title. 9 At the Superior Court level 10 of the James Bay cases, the judge held that Indians had 11 aboriginal title. But the Quebec Court of Appeals 12 reversed the Superior Court's decision, and in essence, 13 held that there is no such thing as aboriginal title. 14 They reasoned that no treaties had ever been signed in 15 the James Bay area, therefore, no native title exists. 16 But this, of course, is ridiculous reasoning because 17 treaties are a means of extinguishing Indian title and 18 not a means of creating it. But both Courts did not 19 define Indian title. 20 In the Paulette case, the 21 judge in handing down his decision on whether the 22 Indians of the Northwest Territories could lodge a 23 caveat in regards to the lands they were claiming, he 24 held that arguably the Indians had a legally 25 recognizable interest in the land in spite of the fact 26 that the area claimed was covered by a treaty. He 27 reasoned that the Treaty could not be interpreted as a 28 total surrender and should be looked at as a peace and 29 friendship treaty. At the Court of Appeals level, 30 again, the lower Court's decision was reversed. The Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6573

1 Court of Appeals in essence held that a caveat could not 2 be lodged against a sovereign without its permission. 3 Here again the Courts did not define native title. 4 Important as these decisions 5 are and the implications they have for aboriginal rights 6 in Canada, the single most important decision is the St. 7 Catherine's Milling and Lumber Co. v. The Queen. The 8 decision was handed down by the Privy Council, The 9 Council held "that the tenure of the Indians was a 10 personal and usufructuary right, dependent on the 11 goodwill of the sovereign"; that there has been all along 12 vested in the Crown a substantial and paramount estate, 13 underlying the Indians' title, which became a plenum 14 dominium whenever that title was surrendered or otherwise 15 extinguished. In other words, the British Crown, prior 16 to the discovery of North America, has always had title 17 to the lands in North America in an a priori sense. The 18 results of the St. Catherine's Milling and Lumber Co. 19 case is that the British by simply setting foot on North 20 America and planting a rag attached to a pole on the 21 shores acquired the title to Indian lands. 22 This ritual, i.e. the coming 23 ashore and the planting of a flag and the claiming of the 24 land for the Monarch, is sometimes referred to as 25 "Discovery". The Doctrine of Discovery is one 26 justification for claiming fee simple title to lands in 27 North America. But the doctrine has been abused, 28 misconstrued, and misinterpreted by the white man. Chief 29 Justice Marshall of the United States Supreme Court, and 30 one of the first to use the Concept of Discovery in his Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6574

1 decisions, said in the Johnson and Graham's lessee V. 2 MacIntosh case that discovery was a doctrine meant to 3 apply to the European powers for their own orderly 4 conduct in dealing with the aboriginal people of North 5 America. Hence, discovery was not meant to apply to the 6 Indians. It was not meant to mean a fee simple 7 ownership. To the contrary, discovery can be analogized 8 to a 'business franchise', Just as a business franchise 9 gives exclusive rights to the owner of the franchise to 10 enter into business relations with people within the 11 geographic area of the franchise, as against others from 12 the same company and selling the same product, discovery 13 was meant to give European power who came to the shores 14 of North America to deal exclusively with the Indians 15 whose territory covered or included that particular area 16 discovered by a European power. A right to deal with 17 people certainly does not give ownership to their 18 property. 19 Just in passing, Section 9l (4) 20 of the B.N.A. Act which states that the Federal Government 21 has jurisdiction over Indians and lands reserved for 22 Indians, can also be analogized to a business franchise. 23 It gives exclusive right to the Federal Government to 24 enter into special relationships with the Indian; 3.5 25 against the provinces. Section 91 (24) should not be 26 interpreted as a dictatorial power that the Federal 27 Government has over Indians. Such an interpretation is 28 step backward in human rights and constitutional law. 29 Before moving on, I would like 30 to consider two separate but not unrelated fundamental Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6575

1 questions. Firstly, in regards to the reasoning of the 2 Privy Council in the St. Catherine's Milling and Lumber 3 co. case, I would like to ask, "What is property?" Most 4 authorities would define property to be the relationship 5 that people have about a thing. Taking this definition 6 and applying it to the statement by the Privy Council 7 that the Crown has always had underlying title to the 8 lands in question, how is it possible to have a relation- 9 ship about a thing, in this case, land, which a people do 10 not know exists? 11 In regards to the doctrine of 12 discovery, if interpreted as giving fee simple ownership, 13 rather than being in the nature of a franchise, then 14 should not the doctrine have a geographic limitation, in 15 the same way that the Royal Proclamation of 1763 has been 16 held not to apply to terra incognita, in other words, to 17 lands unknown? In one particular case, the Royal 18 Proclamation has been held not to apply to lands that 19 were not yet explored and discovered. 20 When it comes to a considera- 21 tion of native title, most authorities reason that 22 Indians have no concept of property ownership and there 23 fore, how could they have title? But this is nonsense. It 24 is high time the Government and the Courts stop using as 25 premises false reasonings such as "personal an 26 usufructuary right dependent on the good will of the 27 sovereign" for stare decisis sake. At one time 28 reasonings such as were forwarded in the St. Catherine's 29 Milling and Lumber Co. case may have held water arid we 30 can, at least, give them the benefit of the doubt because Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6576

1 people probably did not know any better. But we know 2 better today, and we know different. At least, we claim 3 to be one of the most advanced societies this world has 4 ever known. It is time we put our intelligence to work 5 in a way that will do justice to our claim. 6 In order to understand the 7 property concepts of any society, one must have some 8 appreciation of the overall philosophy or habitual thought 9 of that society. By habitual thought, I mean the 10 philosophical premises that are basic to a culture; 11 premises that a society uses to relate to the world. The 12 habitual thought of Western Occidental society is very 13 linear and singular. A good example of linear thinking in 14 Western Occidental society is the concept of time. Time 15 is conceptualized as a straight line. If one attempted to 16 picture "time" in his mind, he would see something like a 17 river flowing towards him and on past him. What is behind 18 him is the past. What is immediately around him is the 19 present, and the future is upstream. But one cannot see 20 very far upstream because of a waterfall, the waterfall 21 symbolizing the barrier to knowing the future. This line 22 of time is conceptualized as quantity, especially as 23 lengths made up of units. A length of time is envisioned 24 as a row of similar units. 25 A logical and inherent 26 characteristic of this concept of time is that once a unit 27 of the river of time flows past, that particular unit 28 never returns -- it is gone forever. This characteristic 29 lends itself to other concepts such as "wasting time, 30 "making up time", "buying time", "being on time", which Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6577

1 are unique to Western Occidental society. 2 There are other philosophical 3 ramifications of linear philosophy, one of them being that 4 there are many polarized concepts and some examples of 5 these polarized concepts are good and bad, saint and 6 sinner, black and white; see, these are other ramifications 7 of a linear philosophy. Other ramifications too, or values 8 that a linear philosophy brings up, are things like values 9 that express themselves in, more is better, bigger is 10 better, higher is better. These are all ramifications that 11 come forth from a linear philosophy. 12 Another characteristic of this 13 linear concept of time is that each unit of time is 14 totally different and independent of similar units. 15 Consequently, each day is considered a different unit, 16 and thus a different day. Every day is a new day, every 17 year is a new year.. From this, the reader can readily 18 understand why there is a felt need among Western 19 society to have names for days and months, and numbers 20 for years. In general, Western philosophy is a straight 21 line. One goes from A to B to C to D, where B is the 22 foundation for C, and C is the foundation for D, and on 23 down the line. 24 Now many native people think in 25 terms of cyclicity, cycles. Time is not a straight line 26 It is a circle. Every day is not a new day, but the same 27 day repeating itself. There is no need to name each day a 28 different name. You only need one name:, day. This 29 philosophy is a result of a direct relationship to the 30 macrocosm. The sun is round; the moon is round; a day is Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6578

1 a cycle--day consists of daylight followed by night; the 2 season follow the same cycle year after year. A 3 characteristic of cyclical thinking is that it is 4 wholistic, in the same way that a circle is whole. A 5 cyclical philosophy does not lend itself readily to 6 dichotomies of categorizations, nor fragmentation, nor 7 polarization, whereas linear thinking lends itself to all 8 of these. Linear thinking, also, links itself to 9 singularity. For example, "there is only one great 10 spirit", only one true God", "only one true rule", "only 11 one true answer". These philosophical ramifications of 12 Western habitual thought result in misunderstanding 13 wholistic concepts. Westerners relate themselves to only 14 one aspect of a whole at a time, and they have a hard time 15 looking at the total picture. 16 The linear and singular 17 philosophy of Western society, and a cyclical and 18 wholistic philosophy of most native people can readily 19 be seen in the property concepts each society has. 20 Firstly, British property concepts. British concepts 21 of ownership or title are not dissimilar to native 22 concepts of land ownership. An underlying premise of 23 the British property system is that no one can own land 24 in the same way that one can own a book. One cannot 25 possess land in he same way that one can possess a 26 book. Possession forms a large part of ownership. 27 Since one cannot own land in the same way that he can 28 own a book, a system as been devised by the British to 29 give symbolic ownership. This system is known as the 30 estate system. Under the estate system one cannot Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6579

1 outrightly own the land, mainly because land outlasts 2 human beings. The land was there before the present 3 owner, and will still be there after the present owner 4 passes. Consequently, one can only have an interest in 5 the land called an estate. 6 The British developed a 7 hierarchy of interests or estates. And again, this 8 hierarchy is very linear and very singular, you know, 9 at the philosophical level. At the very top is " a fee 10 simple absolute". It is a possessory fee simple 11 absolute, the largest estate or interest known to the 12 law. Even though a parcel of land has geographic 13 bounds, when considered in terms of time, this estate 14 is said to be of infinite duration. It is a present, 15 freely alienable, possessory estate. There are no 16 other outside interests. A fee simple absolute can be 17 symbolized as A, representing a grantor or owner to B, 18 the grantee and his heirs. 19 On down the line come what 20 you call the defeasible estates. Now, there are two 21 defeasible estates. One is called a fee simple 22 determinable and the other one is called a fee simple 23 subject to a condition subsequent. Now, these two 24 property concepts are slightly lesser interests than 25 the fee simple, mainly because, you know, a condition 26 has been put on the fee, but basically these two 27 property concepts are, you know, rather high up in the 28 hierarchy of estates, but are less than a fee simple. 29 Another property concept too 30 is what you call a Fee Tail, which has been phased out Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6580

1 of the British common law. The fee tail limits the 2 class of heirs capable of inheriting to those who 3 likewise answer the description of lineal descendants, 4 in other words, when a grantor gives land to a grantee, 5 he puts a condition on it, saying I'm giving this land, 6 more or less, t your name, you know, to those people 7 who are direct lineal descendants of you. When the 8 lineal descendancy comes to an end, then the land 9 reverts back to the original grantor. 10 There are a number of other 11 interests or estates such as life estates, indefeasible 12 vested remainders, contingent remainders, executory 13 interests, and a number of non-freehold estates. But 14 for our purposes, the above estates, you know, that are 15 briefly described will suffice. 16 A couple of observations can b 17 made in regards to the estate system. Firstly, the 18 system is linear vertically. The system is also very 19 singular. It is geared to the individual ownership of 20 land. Secondly, an underlying goal of the system 4s to 21 facilitate transferability of the different interests. 22 Thirdly, the system necessitates an extensive and 23 complicated registry. It makes possible to 24 chronologically trace previous owners. If one went back 25 far enough to the original source or original owner, one 26 would discover that it is the Crown or the Monarch. In 27 other words the source of title is the Crown. 28 Indian ownership of property, 29 and in this case, land, is wholistic. Land is communally 30 owned. Indian property ownership is somewhat akin to a Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6581

1 interest in the land; everybody, as a whole, owns the 2 whole. In regards to title, to use the language of the 3 estate system, the native concept of title is somewhat 4 like the fee simple, the fee simple determinable, the fee 5 simple subject to a condition subsequent, or the fee 6 tail, or if you want to say; it's somewhat like a 7 combination of these lesser interests, leaving the fee 8 simple out. It is as though the original grantor of the 9 land to the Indians put a condition on his grant, for 10 instance "so long as there are Indians"; "so long as it 11 is not alienated"; "on the condition that it is used only 12 by Indians", etc. These are possible conditions that 13 could have been put on the original grant given to the 14 Indians. In other words, the Indians' concept of title 15 is not equivalent to a fee simple, but is somewhat less 16 than a fee simple. This is not to say that the Indians 17 were not capable of conceiving a fee simple concept, If 18 one attempts to trace the India s' source of title, one 19 will quickly find that the original source is the Creator 20 or the Great Spirit. The Creator in granting land, did 21 not give the land to human beings only but gave it to all 22 living beings. This includes plants, sometimes rocks, 23 and all animals. In other words, deer have the same type 24 of estate or interest as any human being. This concept 25 of sharing with fellow animals and plants is one that is 26 quite alien to Western society's concept of land. To 27 Western society, only human beings have a right to 28 land, and everything else is for the convenience of 29 human beings. The concept of the Indians of sharing 30 with fellow living things is not unrelated to the concept Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6582

1 of social contract that has been forwarded by some 2 philosophers. 3 For instance, Rousseau and 4 Locke refer to a social contract to explain the origins 5 of society and government. But their social contract 6 refers to human beings only. If the idea of a social 7 contract is applied to native people, one will find 8 that it includes not only human beings but all other 9 living things. 10 An observation about the 11 Indians' concept of land title includes a reference 12 back to the basic philosophy. Indian property concepts 13 are wholistic. Ownership does not rest in any one 14 individual, but belongs to the tribe as a whole, as an 15 entity. The land belongs not only to the people 16 presently living, but it belongs to past generations, 17 and to future generations that are yet to be born. 18 Past and future generations are as much a part of the 19 tribal entity as the living generation. Not only that, 20 but the land belongs not only to human beings, but also 21 to other living things; they, too, have an interest. 22 The question inevitably arises 23 as to just what the Indians surrendered when they signed 24 treaties or engaged in activities that today the 25 government claims were actions on the part of the 26 Indians extinguishing their title. Firstly, the Indian 27 concept of land ownership is certainly not inconsistent 28 with the idea of sharing with an alien people. Once the 29 Indians recognized Europeans that came to the shores of 30 North America as human beings, they gladly shared with Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6583

1 them. They shared with Europeans in the same way they 2 shared with the animals. But sharing here cannot be 3 interpreted as meaning that Europeans got the same 4 rights as any other native person, because they were not 5 descendants of the original grantees, or they were not 6 parties to the original social contract. Sharing 7 certainly cannot be interpreted as meaning that one is 8 giving up for all eternity his rights. 9 Secondly, the Indians could 10 not have given a fee simple in any land transactions 11 they may have engaged in, because they did not have a 12 fee simple. They were never given a fee simple by their 13 original grantor. It is well known in British property 14 law that one cannot give an interest greater than he 15 has. 16 Thirdly, Indians could not 17 have given an interest equal to what they were 18 originally granted, otherwise they would be breaking 19 the condition of the fee granted. Not only that, but 20 they are not sole owners of the original grant. The 21 land belongs to past generations, the yet to be born, 22 and the plants and animals. In order to give an 23 interest equal to the original grant, one would have to 24 get a transfer from those holding an equal interest, 25 and these would include the dead, the yet to be born, 26 and the plants and animals. Has the Crown ever 27 received a surrender from these other living entities? 28 Fourthly, the only kind of 29 interest the native people have given or transferred is 30 an interest lesser than what they had, for one can Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6584

1 always give an interest smaller than what he has. For 2 instance, if one holds a fee simple determinable, one 3 can always give away a life estate. From the above, one 4 can readily conclude that the Indians did not surrender 5 very much, if they surrendered anything at all. 6 Fifthly, the above philosophy, 7 property concepts, and ramifications and implications 8 thereof, may sound ridiculous and fairy-tale-like, but 9 what philosophy does not? Do biblical stories make more 10 sense? To native people they sound rather ridiculous and 11 make-believe. Does the "Crown" as a fictitious entity 12 make more sense? I do not think so. 13 Canada, as a sovereign 14 nation, via the crown, claims ownership and sovereignty 15 over the lands within its boundaries. But how does one 16 gain ownership and sovereignty over a particular piece 17 of land? One can gain sovereignty through aboriginal 18 rights which basically means that one is the original 19 occupier of a particular piece of land. One can gain 20 sovereignty through conquest. One can gain some land 21 rights through adverse possession. One can gain titles 22 through conveyance. Lastly and unique to the Americas, 23 and claimed to he just by Europeans, one can gain title 24 through discovery. 25 If we look at Canada, and ask 26 again, "How did she gain title to the lands within its 27 boundaries?" It certainly cannot claim title via 28 aboriginal rights. Only native people can claim 29 aboriginal rights. It cannot claim sovereignty through 30 conquest. Who did it conquer? Sure, one or two small Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6585

1 Indian tribes. On the contrary, she chose to enter 2 into peace and friendship treaties with most tribes. 3 If one tribe was actually conquered, it certainly does 4 not mean that all Indians were conquered. Conquest has 5 geographic limitations in the same way that the Royal 6 Proclamation has geographic limitations. 7 In the Nishga case, the Court, 8 in a roundabout way, suggests that the Crown gained title 9 to the lands in British Columbia via adverse possession, 10 that is, through adverse acts on the part of the Crown. 11 But the theory of adverse possession could not apply to 12 native people because the land was not individually 13 owned, and the theory of adverse possession only applies 14 to the individual ownership of the land. Secondly, 15 adverse possession does not apply to a sovereign because 16 an underlying assumption of the theory of adverse 17 possession is that the adverse possessor must have his 18 title recognized by a higher entity. In the case of a 19 sovereign, there is no higher court. 20 If the Crown can claim any 21 type of interest, it can legitimize this claim through 22 conveyance, and only through conveyance. But as I have 23 already shown, the interest the Indians surrendered, if 24 they surrendered anything at all, is a lot smaller than 25 what the government lays claim to. It certainly is not 26 a fee simple. 27 The only other means by which 28 Canada can justify its claims to Indian lands is through 29 discovery. But then, again, I have already shown how 30 discovery has been misinterpreted and misconstrued. the Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6586

1 When the Courts and the 2 government that the Indians' title is dependent on the 3 goodwill of the sovereign, and that the Indians' 4 interest is a mere burden on the underlying title of the 5 Crown, the question to ask is, "Where did the Crown get 6 its title from? And how?" 7 When the Courts refer to India 8 title, they should say something to the effect of, "the 9 title or interest of the Crown is a mere personal and 10 usufructuary interest dependent on the good will of the 11 Indians." The Indians have all along had a paramount 12 estate underlying the Crown's interest. The Crown's 13 interest is a mere burden on the title of the Indians. 14 As a conclusion to this 15 presentation, I would like to state that it is my hope 16 that in some small way I have contributed to a better 17 understanding of the Indians' property concepts, which 18 in turn, hopefully, will facilitate a better 19 understanding by those who are not familiar with Indian 20 thinking. I also hope that, in some small way, by this 21 presentation, I have contributed towards educating non- 22 Indians about why and the basis for the land claims 23 Indian people are making. 24 If justice and fairness are 25 underlying goals of today's government and Court system, 26 then the concepts and the philosophy of the Indian people 27 should certainly be taken into consideration and given as 28 much weight as British concepts and philosophy. But if 29 justice and fairness are not underlying goals, then we 30 should stop covering ourselves with a false aura of Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6587

1 sacredness and bring out things in the open, so every 2 body knows where they stand. In other words, if we 3 cannot be bothered with justice and fairness, we should, 4 at least, be truthful. Thank you. 5 (SUBMISSION OF LEROY LITTLE BEAR - MARKED EXHIBIT C-42) 6 (WITNESS ASIDE) 7 MR. ROLAND: Sir, the next 8 witness is Mr. George Akula. 9 10 GEORGE AKULA sworn: 11 THE WITNESS: Mr. Chief 12 Justice Berger, members of the Inquiry, ladies and 13 gentlemen. As a concerned and growing Canadian, I 14 would like to take a realistic approach to the need for 15 the construction of a gas pipeline in the Mackenzie 16 Valley. For some time now, the Federal Government and 17 a few public agencies, such as Ontario Hydro, have been 18 running ads in newspapers advising all Canadians to 19 respectively: 20 "adopt your own personal programme in fighting 21 inflation" 22 and to: 23 "conserve energy in the home". 24 Ever since the energy crisis 25 in North America in 1973 and 1974, these advertising 26 campaigns have consistently encouraged Canadians to use 27 the basic sources of energy, electricity and gas more 28 sparingly and wisely. Even in last night's budget, the 29 Federal Government has taken stringent measures to 30 leave us with little choice in doing this. Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6588

1 In addition to the efforts of 2 the public sector to make Canadians aware of the need 3 to practise self-restraint, Mr. Commissioner, the 4 private sector has and will continue to give impetus 5 towards saving energy in our everyday lives. 6 The automobile industry today 7 is in a gradual transition towards smaller cars rather 8 than big ones. The motor-assisted bicycle or moped for 9 example, introduced into the Ontario market in 1974, 10 holds great potential for competing with or even 11 replacing the private car as a cheap means of urban 12 transportation. 13 These are just some of the 14 ways we are becoming a much more energy conscious 15 society than ever before, and which will help us 16 greatly reduce any foreseeable need for an Arctic gas 17 pipeline in the near future, It stands to reason that, 18 if the Federal Anti-inflation and Energy Conservation 19 Campaign does result in wiser energy consumption by 20 Canadians, and I don't see how it cannot in light of 21 the Federal energy-saving budget, we will be able to 22 extend our use of southern gas and oil reserves longer 23 than we now think possible. At this point in time, we 24 cannot overlook the fact that our own use of energy is 25 linked to inflation. Thus, we must all learn how to 26 make the most of our present reserves by using less 27 energy. We must all learn how to make the most of our 28 present reserves before proceeding to new ones that 29 entail greater risk to bring into production. 30 The two examples I have cited Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6589

1 to reduce any need for a northern pipeline by using less 2 energy but still maintaining a healthy lifestyle. If a 3 pipeline is to be built, however, I am fully convinced 4 that for the sake of the dignity and the traditional 5 beliefs of our native peoples, the Canadian Government 6 must give formal recognition to recent land claims made 7 by the northern natives and to their own self-governing 8 entity within Canadian Confederation, so that they can 9 deal directly with the southern economic interests who 10 want the pipeline a reality. We cannot afford to have 11 any serious confrontations because of the government's 12 unwillingness to respond favorably to native demands. 13 The final point I would like 14 to make, Mr. Berger, is this: We white people who 15 populate so much of southern Canada with our strong 16 economic motivations to push on with progress, still 17 have a lot to learn from our native peoples. As a 18 sociology student at the University of Toronto, I have 19 learned that the Indians have always shown a more 20 judicial use of resources than we have and that they do 21 not place a high value on material possessions. Why? 22 Because they are spiritually oriented towards Mother 23 Nature, and their economic practices, unlike ours, do 24 not rule or spoil nature. Their affinity with the land 25 is something that they can teach those of us who do not 26 yet see this. 27 Everybody here who has kept 28 up with the progress of your Inquiry through the media 29 should know now that the modern concept of progress is 30 very harmful to our native peoples. You have had many Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6590

1 citizens describe to you how the simple lifestyle of 2 Indians in Canada has been destroyed by modern economic 3 development. This cannot happen with the Mackenzie 4 Valley Pipeline. 5 Now, as a student of 6 contemporary society, I feel there is great truth in the 7 statement that modern man has virtually deprived himself 8 of the simple life associated with nature and that our 9 understanding of native ways will show us what it is to 10 live with nature again. The starting point for our 11 harmonious understanding of native ways can only come 12 about when the land claims and rights to sovereignty by 13 the native peoples are given consent by Ottawa. 14 Thank you very much. 15 (WITNESS ASIDE) 16 MR. ROLAND: Sir, the next 17 witness is Miss Marisa Nichini who will speak on behalf 18 of the Core Committee for World Peace and Development. 19 MISS MARISA NICHINI sworn: 20 THE WITNESS: Mr. Berger, we 21 are a group of students from Holy Name of Mary High 22 School in Mississauga. As members of the Core 23 Committee for Peace and Development, the school club, 24 we have become interested in and aware of the situation 25 now facing the native people of the Northwest 26 Territories with respect to the building of the 27 Mackenzie Valley Pipeline. 28 We should like to state that 29 we are not experts, only concerned Canadian citizens who 30 realize the importance of the outcome of this Inquiry. Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6591

1 Here then, is a collection of our research and opinions 2 concerning topics relating to the Mackenzie Valley 3 Pipeline issue, treaty history, culture, environmental 4 effects, energy, economics, and the Canadian 5 responsibility. We should also like to say that this is 6 merely a summary of our brief and that, could you please 7 forgive any incoherence that may be found because' we 8 just did this in the audience tonight because of the 9 length of our brief. Thank you. 10 First of all, treaty history. 11 We would like to present to 12 you the reasons for our belief that before any decision 13 is made concerning the building of the Mackenzie Valley 14 pipeline, a just land claim settlement should be made 15 with the native peoples living in this area. The 16 reasons for our views came from various conclusions 17 drawn from an investigation into the treaty history of 18 the Canadian Indians. Red Indian peoples are not of 19 course confined to Canada, but inhabit the whole of the 20 American continent. Upon reading of how other 21 countries have dealt with native peoples, it would seem 22 that Canadian authorities were very fair in signing 23 treaties with their native Indians. Surely it was a 24 better practice than starting the destruction of their 25 civilization as Cortez did with the Aztecs or 26 massacring the Sioux as the United States troops did at 27 Wounded Knee, But was the signing of treaties with the 28 Indians that much better? We are not so sure. 29 Before the Canadian Government 30 started negotiating with the Indians, private Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6592

1 individual; had already been doing so. Among them was 2 the Earl of Selkirk. The Selkirk Treaty was daylight 3 robbery, an outright exploitation of the Indians who 4 could not have realized what they were signing away--the 5 whole area of the Red River Valley and the Lake Winnipeg 6 region. To this day, many people are claiming that the 7 treaties were seen as a guarantee for the Indians to 8 continue their traditional lifestyle. 9 In the years following 1817, 10 the Dominion of Canada became one of the negotiating 11 parties. Among the treaties signed were the Manitoulin 12 Island Treaty, the Winnipeg Treaty, and the Blackfoot 13 Treaty. There are three outstanding features of the 14 treaties that had been signed. First of all, the 15 difference of the negotiating parties and the different 16 cultures that came into contact during negotiations. 17 Secondly, the fact that treaties were consistently 18 signed only when the governments saw the need for non- 19 native expansion and development. Thirdly, non-natives 20 who had usually moved in. So the only choice the 21 Indian had was to sign over the land with the treat or 22 to lose it without one. 23 Two treaties illustrating the 24 conclusions above are Treaties 8 and 11, which have 25 been ruled by Mr. Justice Morrow to being misunderstood 26 by the native people. The Indians believed that the 27 treaties: 28 "did not involve the succession of Indian lands 29 but were merely friendship or peace treaties, 30 implying a mutual respect for the lives, Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6593

1 rights, and way of life of both parties." 2 When they were signed, the Indians were urged to do 3 so, even though they did not understand what was in 4 the treaties. No wonder the native people did not 5 know what was happening to them. It took us more than 6 one reading of the treaty transcripts to decode the 7 official jargon. 8 The more recent James Bay 9 Settlement has been held up as a great step forward in 10 native-government relations but once again, upon 11 examining its terms and implications, it does not 12 appear to be so great. We've tried to show, through 13 treaty history, why we support the Dene and Inuit in 14 their appeal for an honest land claim settlement. We 15 cannot speak as Indians but rather as people who do not 16 want to see the injustices of the past repeated. 17 The worst thing about the 18 treaties made during the last and early part of this 19 century is that the native peoples' views were ignored 20 and they were allowed no control over their own future. 21 Please do not let this happen again. It's never too 22 late to make a change for the better, although the 23 change in attitude towards the Canadian native peoples 24 is almost a hundred years overdue. According to the 25 Honourable Alexander Morris, onetime Lieutenant- 26 Governor of Manitoba and the Northwest Territories 27 wrote, in 1880: 28 "it is the desire of this work to suggest a pos- 29 sibility, nay the certainty of a hopeful future 30 for them, the native Indians" Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6594

1 Secondly, we have culture. 2 The culture of native people of Canada has contributed 3 much to the society in this country and they have much 4 more to offer us if we give them a chance. A place to 5 start is trying to understand some of the aspects of 6 their culture and to understand their search for their 7 lost identity. When we do this, we can better 8 understand their land claims and demands for 9 participation in determining their own future. 10 One of the largest causes of 11 misunderstandings between white and native societies is 12 the difference in their concept of the land. The white 13 concept of owning land is one totally foreign to the 14 native people. To them, the land is to be shared by 15 all, used during their lifetimes, and then passed on to 16 future generations. The white man conquers the land; 17 the Indian lives in harmony with it. Therefore, when 18 initial treaties were made, the native; people did not 19 understand their intent to give away the land. This is 20 why the native people resisted being displaced from the 21 land which they did not realize they had lose. 22 One of the major difficulties 23 the native people of North America face is their lack 24 of sense of group identity. The white society has 25 grouped them together as a single ethnic group and thus 26 cannot understand why they cannot get together to make 27 decision 3, but they are not a single native group. 28 Native people do not have a 29 common physical, social, or cultural background but 30 rather have a wide range of traditional cultures which Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6595

1 have been designated as: 2 "Indian culture" 3 by the white people viewing from the outside. The 4 native people have always considered themselves to be 5 Cree, Algonquin, Ojibway, etc., not as a large unified 6 nation. Today, however, circumstances force them to 7 begin to think of themselves as a whole and to work 8 together for the benefit of all. The native people of 9 Canada have organized themselves into major groups, 10 such as the Indian Brotherhood, the Metis Association 11 of the Northwest Territories, which work present their 12 claims to the Canadian Government. The Organization 13 of Native Peoples has helped their claims to be heard 14 and has helped the government in knowing who to deal 15 with. 16 An important aspect in the 17 development of native people is the rediscovery of 18 their identity. Many of the young people are 19 rediscovering the traditional ways of their culture. 20 They must go back and find what they have lost. Thus, 21 the natives can be a valuable addition to the diverse 22 cultures existing in Canada which are able to retain 23 their identity as distinct groups and at the same time 24 be Canadians. The native people are afraid that, 25 integration into white society would be an assimilation 26 and that they would lose their culture and have to 27 adopt another just to survive. 28 Their native culture has been 29 misunderstood in the past. The Canadians now have a 30 chance to change that by helping the native people to Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6596

1 become part of the Canadian mosaic, 2 "to be colourful red tiles, taking their place 3 where red is both needed and appreciated". 4 To achieve this, the land 5 claims must be settled to insure the future of these 6 people and the cultural, social, economic, and 7 political life of Canada. 8 The native people of the 9 Northwest Territories have always been and still are 10 dependent upon the land. It is vital that they co-exist 11 along with the environment and it makes sense that 12 whatever affects the environment affects them. They have 13 never felt it necessary to live in cities and work in 14 industry, but they recognize the importance of the land 15 which is often more than the average Canadian citizen 16 does. The case for the preservation of the land in the 17 Northwest Territories is not only important to the native 18 people, it is also vital to Canadians everywhere. 19 The proposed pipeline for the 20 Mackenzie River Valley is a large-scale construction 21 project. It has been argued that the actual pipeline 22 will only affect 40 square miles of land, , however, 23 when the details involved in the actual construction 24 have been considered, the: 25 "description of the project affecting a mere 40 26 square miles of land is unrealistic". 27 There is much more to the pipeline than simply the 28 digging of a tunnel. In order for the pipeline to 29 undergo construction, it is first necessary to develop an 30 efficient transportation system capable of transporting Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6597

1 supplies to and from the site of construction. As a 2 result, the Northwest Territories has seen increased air 3 and barge traffic in the last few years and two highways 4 near the area of the Mackenzie Valley Pipeline have 5 undergone construction since 1972. 6 Proposals have also been made 7 for a hydro-electric transmission system. It is 8 obvious that a construction project such as the 9 Mackenzie Valley Pipeline is going to have a large- 10 scale effect on the environment of the North. It is 11 feared that the bulldozers, increased air traffic, 12 water pollution, and the blasting that accompanies 13 every form of construction will result in various 14 problems among the animals of the area. 15 Since the native people are 16 dependent on the land, including its wildlife, one will 17 also be killing the people along with it. Careless 18 handling of the construction of the pipeline may result 19 in the upsetting of migratory routes among birds, the 20 death of fish, and small water animals, and most 21 importantly, it may result in the caribou and other 22 large animals being frightened away altogether. When 23 the animals go, the native people's ability to exist 24 with nature as they always have goes, and consequently 25 their right to live as they please. 26 It is ironic that for the last 27 two hundred years, this country has shown no interest ix 28 the fate of the people or the land of the Canadian north 29 and now when it is being discovered that this land can be 30 of some value to us in the form of gas and dollars, we Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6598

1 still care only to exploit it. The problem here is not 2 only the actual idea of northern development, it is how 3 we develop it. 4 Energy: The Mackenzie Valley 5 Pipeline issue has forced Canadians to make some very 6 important decisions regarding the need for the development 7 of energy resources in the north. We feel that the 8 pipeline should not be built until certain questions 9 regarding our need for energy resources have been 10 answered. 11 After studying various 12 statistics, it is quite obvious that there is no need 13 to rush the building of the pipeline. There is no real 14 shortage of natural gas in Canada. If the government 15 would take measures to ease the deliverability, we 16 would have enough supplies for at least 12 years. 17 There is a definite need to 18 conserve. In the past, large users of energy have been 19 rewarded with lower prices. This must be stopped. 20 Advertising has encouraged increased use of energy 21 consumption. Instead, energy companies should 22 encourage and stress conservation. 23 Further research is needed into 24 the feasibility of alternate forms of energy and 25 improvement of things such as, appliances and generators. 26 The major concern, which in the past seems to have been 27 overlooked, is the effect which the pipeline will have 28 on the native people in the north. 29 The economic impact: All too 30 many members of the southern populace of our country Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6599

1 have refused to recognize the questions of the building 2 of the Mackenzie Valley Pipeline as the most 3 controversial issue facing us today. This laissez 4 faire on our part is due to the fact that people do not 5 realize the full implication of the effects that the 6 proposed pipeline might have. Too often, it is 7 dismissal just as another case of the native people of 8 Canada standing in the way of progress. 9 While land claims, ecological 10 effects, and the effects on the native environment are 11 of prime concern, we, the people of the south, must 12 realize that the construction of the Mackenzie Valley 13 Pipeline may be to greater detriment of our national 14 economic system. Considering that the south is the 15 economic centre of Canada, it is ironic that many 16 people choose to ignore the problem, on the grounds 17 that they do not live in the north, and so will not be 18 affected by the pipeline. 19 Although gas companies claim 20 that they will bring more jobs and economic benefits to 21 our nation through the building of the pipeline, it is 22 also found that there is another report, entitled: 23 "The Preliminary Report of Economic Impact Com- 24 mittee". 25 Their report states that a pipeline, if built now, would 26 distort the economy because of the speed and size of the 27 pipeline construction, and although there is a great de- 28 mand for Canadian equity control and participation, such 29 great control of the project would increase undesirable 30 economic consequences and that net benefits, both in the Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6600

1 area of job creation and revenues, are too small to jus- 2 tify the massive effort required. Their report also 3 found that employment prospects were dismal, the majority 4 of long-term jobs being located in the south. So we, the 5 voters, are confronted with two evaluations of the eco- 6 nomic impact of the Mackenzie Valley Pipeline, Both ap- 7 pear logical and coherent, both come from irrefutable 8 sources, but there is a great deal of conflict between 9 these two reports. 10 As citizens of Canada, it is 11 our responsibility to demand that this conflict be 12 resolved, so we may make way for the best decision of 13 the Canadian public as a whole without harming others 14 unnecessarily by acting in haste. Proper northern 15 development may be our lifeline in the future years and 16 to neglect it now would be to our greater detriment, 17 Finally, the Canadian respon- 18 sibility. In this age o searching for a national 19 identity, for a definition of Canadian", it is 20 necessary for the people of Canada to take a sta. We 21 must decide, as Canadians, what our priorities. are, 22 what we wish to stand for. In the past, we have been . 23 nation of middlemen, peace-makers and buckers among he 24 powerful nations of the world but this role must now be 25 applied to our own internal problems. Obviously, the 26 problem that stands out is that of the Mackenzie 27 Valley Pipeline issue. Through our research, we have 28 round arguments for and against the necessity of the 29 proposed pipeline. The gas companies say that it is 30 necessary to build the pipeline in order to supply Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6601

1 natural gas to meet Canada's growing energy needs. 2 However, other experts challenge the need of extracting 3 our northern reserves at this, time. Both these 4 arguments are valid, but both still have the same 5 conclusion - eventually the northern reserves must be 6 tapped for the good of all Canadians. However, before 7 the pipeline is built, we must consider the people and 8 land which will be affected by the pipeline. This 9 brings us to the native land claims. These must be 10 settled before a decision on the pipeline is made. 11 Native people have a right to, their land, to their 12 future, and to their children's future. It is our 13 responsibility, as fellow Canadians, to ensure their 14 right to the land. It is not only our moral 15 responsibility but also our national duty to make sure 16 that the decisions made by the Canadian government and 17 this Inquiry are fair and not harmful to the native 18 people. Thank you. 19 (WITNESS ASIDE) 20 MR. ROLAND: Sir, the next 21 presentation is by Mr. C.K. Kalevar. 22 THE COMMISSIONER: Before we 23 hear from him, let me thank you and all the students 24 who helped in the 'preparation of that brief. Thank 25 you. 26 C.K KALEVAR, sworn 27 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 28 Thank you, Mr. Commissioner and Mr. Roland for giving 29 me a chance to speak tonight instead of tomorrow., To 30 start with, I would like to say that I do not work for Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6602

1 the TransCanada Pipeline and that should just about say 2 what my position is with the Mackenzie Valley Pipeline. 3 Except him, just about everybody else was opposed to 4 Mackenzie Valley Pipeline and so I am. So really, what 5 is new in my brief and going back in circles, I did 6 agree with Mr. Cameron of TransCanada Pipeline when he 7 said that we must find mutuality of interest between 8 the people of the south and the north. Now, I think 9 that's a very good statement, but I would like to 10 interpret that statement with a global perspective. In 11 effect, the south and north that he referred to was was 12 probably the southern Canada and the Northwest 13 Territories and the northern Arctic, while I would like 14 to take a global view of things and perhaps rightly so. 15 After all, Mr. Berger has said that the Mackenzie 16 Valley Pipeline is the most costliest pipeline to be 17 built, if it is built. I hope it is not. But with 18 those credentials to the pipeline, I'm certain it's not 19 difficult for people to see that it is going to have 20 global repercussions, and the global repercussions is 21 something we cannot ignore in a small planet that we 22 live and we have heard this before many times. 23 I am also going to evaluate 24 what implication this opposition means in terms of the 25 future of the throw-away economy that we live in. I 26 think, in my opinion, that in a throw-away economy, a 27 lot of things are thrown out, and I'm going to, in a 28 brief manner, look at the pricing of some of the things 29 that we use in a day-to-day life. The price mechanism, 30 as it exists, under the market system, has failed us as Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6603

1 a society, in my view and certainly failing the future 2 generations to come. 3 I do want to acknowledge a few 4 things I have learnt from Canadian Indians, I mean from 5 the native Canadian Indians. I myself, am a Canadian 6 Indian, but I consider myself an immigrant Canadian 7 Indian. Something I picked up which I think might be 8 useful, perhaps you've heard, Mr. Commissioner, already 9 this before. The story goes: A white man and a native 10 Canadian were, you know, discussing a few things and the 11 white man drew two circles, one larger than the other 12 and said: "The smaller circle is what the Indian knows 13 and the larger circle is what the white man knows". The 14 native listened, thought about it for a while, got up 15 and drew a much bigger circle covering both of them and 16 then, said quietly: "And that circle is what we both 17 don't know". 18 I think it is with that 19 humility, I will hope this Commission would look at the 20 Mackenzie Valley Pipeline. It is how much we do not 21 know and might matter tomorrow, even if we did not 22 foresee it today with the best of expertise available. 23 Before I get on with the brief, 24 it just occurred to me with the interesting philosophical 25 dialogue that went on, that there is a linear philosophy 26 and then there is a circular philosophy. I say what is 27 my philosophy. I just couldn't put it either in the 28 linear philosophy bracket or the circular philosophy 29 bracket. I find my personal philosophy is the random 30 walk of a drunk. It goes all over, circles, straight Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6604

1 line, everything, and I find, it works quite well, at 2 least for me. I hope this has some relevance when the 3 brief comes, Now, Mr. Commissioner, the brief, 4 It should not come as a 5 surprise that the Mackenzie Valley Pipeline, the 6 costliest pipeline in world history has global 7 implications. The social repercussions caused by the 8 Mackenzie Valley Pipeline are not only global, but 9 eternal, in the sense that all the non-renewable 10 resources that will be allowed to exploit will be lost 11 to the future generation yet to come. I plan to 12 outline the impact of the Mackenzie Valley Pipeline on 13 the human environment globally now, and the future 14 human environment. It's a very small brief, three 15 pages; I hope you'll be with me. 16 It is nearly 500 years ago 17 that the Americas were "discovered", and the spherical 18 nature of the earth established. A non-controversial 19 fact, but its socio-economic and political implications 20 have still to surface in public consciousness. What I 21 am driving at is, sir, that facts do not register in 22 the minds of the people as we wish and there are some 23 very basic facts that are escaping the higher levels of 24 decision making in governments, in Canada, and perhaps 25 the world over. 26 Something on the throw-away 27 economy. In a world of limited resources, the importance 28 of conservation need not be stressed. If people were to 29 be logical and instantaneous in their realizations, then 30 our forefathers would have begun practising conservation Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6605

1 of resources the first time they realized that the earth 2 is round and limited, however with limited vision, and 3 human expediency in political power, the people in North 4 America developed, what I term, the throw away economy 5 wasting resources, and designing products for 6 obsolescence misguiding the creative ability of 7 generations to produce for a few selfish shortsighted 8 greedy people - the paper profit in dollars. This profit 9 has further strengthened these people in wasting limited 10 resources, and misdirecting people. 11 When these people continue to 12 determine the operations of the economies of the OECD 13 countries, who have 20% of world's population, but 14 consume 80% of the world's resources, then the 15 exploration and development of more easily accessible 16 resources I'm referring to the Arctic resources; I 17 consider them more easily accessible compared to what 18 future generations really face - the more easily 19 accessible resources without emphasis on conservation 20 is socially irresponsible today, and will place future 21 generations at a great disadvantage. The disadvantage 22 could amount to threat of resource starvation in the 23 near future if the gluttonous appetite of the present 24 generation is not quickly tempered. It is difficult to 25 ignore the conditions of near starvation facing the 26 other 80% of the free world's population. 27 The throw-away economy not only exhausts the non- 28 renewable resources, but pollutes the limited life- 29 sustaining resources of water, air and land. Many non- 30 renewable resources can be recycled, just like water and Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6606

1 air are naturally replaced, however fossil fuels unlike 2 metals are not recyclable. The limited fossil fuels are 3 being irrevocably lost, polluting the air and water of 4 the high seas. The gluttonous generation is potentially 5 likely to choke on its own filth. Something on fossil 6 fuels: The central nature of fossil fuels in the 7 throwaway economy need not he stressed, thanks to the 8 Arab oil embargo. I has been possible to build and 9 operate an economy designed for obsolescence, only 10 because the wasteful work involved in producing these 11 unnecessary products has been performed by the plunder 12 of the limited fossil fuels. If man, we are to make 13 everything by hand, he wouldn't be making underarm 14 deodorants. There just wouldn't be time for it. 15 I do not understand this 16 note. It says: 17 "Mr. Kalevar, fifteen minutes." 18 Do I have fifteen minutes more or -- 19 MR. ROLAND: It's getting 20 late, Mr. Kalevar; we'd like you to move along as quick 21 as you could. 22 A Oh, okay. 23 THE COMMISSIONER: Their, job 24 is move along, but my job is to listen to you, so you 25 just carry on. 26 A If I don't understand, 27 sir -- All right. 28 29 A stringent energy 30 conservation program would be key to restraining the Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6607

1 energy wasteful processes, and unnecessary products. 2 Well, Ill skip it out. 3 Now, imperfections of the 4 market mechanisms: The so-called free market mechanism 5 depends on price to signal fluctuations in demand and 6 supply, and also supposed to allocate limited 7 resources. price mechanism has to be found to reflect 8 the concern; for the future generations, and global 9 equity, for the free market mechanism does not today 10 reflect such concerns adequately. 11 A price comparison of some 12 critical, non-renewable oils and non-essential 13 substitutable drinks is revealing. I have, sir, made 14 some rough calculations on price per gallon of crude 15 oil, heating oil, gasoline, beer, wine, and whisky. 16 Crude oil per gallon costs a quarter, heating oil, 17 fifty cents, gasoline, one dollar. Beer, a non- 18 essential, I think, costs four dollars a gallon, wine, 19 twenty dollars, and whisky, fifty dollars. Anyone 20 concerned about the survival of the human species would 21 agree that the. prices above do not carry that vital 22 sense to the consumer. A price mechanism reflecting 23 the concerns of the future generations will price the 24 non-renewable, limited, critical oils higher than the 25 annually renewable, substitutable, nonessential drinks 26 by at least n order of magnitude. Needless to say that 27 such an increase in the price of oils be preceded with 28 the nationalization, or better still globalization of 29 the multinational corporations. It is my belief that 30 all non-renewable resources be priced higher than the Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6608

1 renewable resources, because you are sharing them wit 2 the future generations, and all substitutable resource 3 be priced lower than the non-substitutable resources, 4 for obvious reasons. 5 With that brief overview, I 6 would like to come down to the Mackenzie Valley 7 Pipeline and why I am opposed to it. 8 The opportunity cost of 9 building it is too high in terms of missed housing, 10 hospitals, schools, social services, and economic 11 development in the third world. Second, the ecological 12 cost to the physical and living environment is 13 unacceptable. Oil accidents in the north could affect 14 the weather of the prairie bread basket region. In my 15 opinion, food is more essential than oil, or gas. The 16 native land claims have not yet been settled to their 17 satisfaction. The social repercussions of the 18 construction activities alone may totally destroy the 19 native cultures. Fifth, to ensure adequate rate of 20 return, it may be necessary to subsidize the sale of 21 Canadian gas to the what I term, the most gluttonous 22 country in the world, United States. They are consuming 23 the most resources any country in the world is consuming. 24 Sixth, the need for stringent conservation measures in 25 the throw-away economy will not be strongly pushed. 26 Fossil fuel and other non-renewable resources will 27 continue to be wasted because more will be available. 28 Canada is rich in resource. It is best to conserve 29 now and help avoid explosive situations caused by 30 resource competition in Middle Fast South Africa, etc. Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6609

1 For example, today's "Globe" 2 carries the headline that Germany played a key role in 3 breaking the deadlock at Unye Unta. I think Canada, as 4 a developed country which exports more raw materials 5 than manufactured goods, is in a unique position to 6 play the mediating role between the north and south, 7 globally, I'm speaking. But, it will help keep its 8 view in a more limited and sensible way, so that it has 9 taken into consideration the long-term implications for 10 centuries to come when we are consuming non-renewable 11 resources accumulated over millions of years. 12 The importance of playing 13 such a role in a nuclear world, in my opinion, is not 14 negotiable because the finality of it all is 15 unthinkable 16 I remain opposed to the 17 building of the Mackenzie Valley Pipeline because it 18 enhances global iniquity today, and threatens survival 19 of the species tomorrow, not to mention the native 20 peoples in the area in the very immediate sense. The 21 Mackenzie Valley Pipeline should not he built in this 22 decade, generation, or perhaps in this century. Not 23 now. 24 Thank you. 25 (SUBMISSION OF C.K. KALEVAR - MARKED EXHIBIT C-464) 26 (WITNESS ASIDE) 27 MR. ROLAND: Sir, that 28 conclude the evidence for this session and there will 29 be no replies or responses from either the pipeline 30 applicants or the intervenors. Allwest Reporting Ltd. Burnaby, B.C. 6610

1 THE COMMISSIONER: Well, thank 2 you, ladies and gentlemen, for staying with us until 3 this hour. I appreciate the contributions made by each 4 one of you and perhaps I might say, it may well be I 5 speak for all of you, when I make a special mention of 6 Mr. Little Bear's presentation in which he urged us to 7 think about the way in which we think about things. 8 So, the hearing will be at ten o'clock tomorrow 9 morning, two o'clock in the afternoon and then eight 10 o'clock tomorrow evening, and we'll have a brief Friday 11 morning session that will begin at 9 a.m. Friday 12 morning. So, we'll adjourn till ten in the morning. 13 (SUBMISSION OF CORE COMMITTEE FOR WORLD PEACE AND 14 DEVELOPMENT -- MISS M. NICHINI - MARKED EXHIBIT C463) 15 (PROCEEDINGS ADJOURNED TO MAY 27, 1976) 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30