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UNCORRECTED PROOF ISSUE Tuesday 28 June 2011 - Estimates Committee B (Wightman) - Part 1 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ESTIMATES COMMITTEE B Tuesday 28 June 2011 MEMBERS Mr Dean Mr Farrell Mr Finch Mr Gaffney Dr Goodwin Ms Rattray (Chair) Mrs Taylor SUBSTITUTE MEMBERS IN ATTENDANCE Hon. Brian Wightman MP , Attorney-General, Minister for Justice, Minister for Environment, Parks and Heritage Department of Justice Lisa Hutton , Secretary Michael Stevens , Deputy Secretary Robert Williams, Deputy Secretary Greg Partridge , Acting Director of Prisons Chris Jacoora , Department Liaison Officer Kerry Worsley , Manager, Crown Law Jim Connolly , Administrator, Magistrates Courts Mark Cocker , Acting Director, Monetary Penalties Enforcement Service Len Armsby , Director, Office of Legislation Development and Review Norman Reaburn , Director, Legal Aid Commission of Tasmania Elizabeth Knight , Registrar, Supreme Court Chris Batt , Director, Office of Consumer Affairs and Fair Trading Ginna Webster , Director, Community Corrections Stephen Morrison, Director, Finance Debra Rabe , Manager, Victims Support Services Julian Type , Electoral Commissioner Tuesday 28 June 2011 - Part 1 1 Estimates B - Wightman UNCORRECTED PROOF ISSUE Jane Bliss , Acting Registrar, Guardianship and Administration Board, Mental Health Tribunal, Forensic Tribunal Robin Banks , Anti-Discrimination Commissioner Simon Allston , Ombudsman Tim Ellis , Director of Public Prosecutions Barbara Etter , Integrity Commission Department of Primary Industries, Parks, Water and Environment Kim Evans, Secretary Michele Moseley , Deputy Secretary Robert Cockerell , General Manager, Corporate Services Kane Salter , Manager, Finance John Whittington , Deputy Secretary Kate Kent , General Manager, Information and Land Services Alistair Scott , General Manager, Resource Management and Conservation Brett Noble , Director, Policy and Projects Group Alex Schaap , Director, EPA Division Peter Mooney , Deputy Secretary, Parks and Heritage Pete Smith , Director, Heritage Tasmania Steve Gall , Director, Aboriginal Heritage Tasmania Lesley Kirby , Director, Royal Tasmanian Botanical Gardens Brooke Craven , Specialist Policy Analyst Ministerial Office Denise McIntyre , Head of Office Brad Arkell , Adviser Alison Wood , Adviser The committee met at 9 a.m. CHAIR (Ms Rattray) - Minister, welcome. Can we offer, firstly, our congratulations on your first time at the Estimates process as a minister. We look forward to an enlightening day. Minister, it is my intention today to start with output 1, 1.1, which is Supreme Court Services, and work our way through. We have got a bit of a timetable here: probably between 9 and 11 for Attorney-General; between 11 and 12.30, or around that mark, for Justice. We thought maybe you could have 10 minutes or so into the lunch break if we need to finish off that particular output group. Mr WIGHTMAN - Sorry, which one was that? CHAIR - That is Minister for Justice. Mr WIGHTMAN - Okay. Tuesday 28 June 2011 - Part 1 2 Estimates B - Wightman UNCORRECTED PROOF ISSUE CHAIR - Between 11 and 12.30. And then at two o’clock we intend to go to the DPP, then the Integrity Commission and the Ombudsman. Dr GOODWIN - Madam Chair, can I just interrupt. I think we agreed that we were just going to merge Attorney-General and Minister for Justice together for that whole session. Mr WIGHTMAN - It is very difficult to separate. CHAIR - You can't separate them? Mr WIGHTMAN - No. CHAIR - You might be surprised at what this committee can do! Mr WIGHTMAN - I would never doubt the intellect of the committee. CHAIR - We will just go to output groups as they come. I would like a bit of order, so we will see how we go. Thank you for that. I expect from about three o’clock onwards we will start with Environment, Parks and Heritage. Minister, I have taken the opportunity to already sign a letter to Madam President to indicate that we could need to sit beyond five o’clock. We have nine hours, so we will see how we are going as the afternoon progresses. I can just indicate that yesterday we worked through to 7.30, with just an extra small break around 5.30. So that gave people a chance to stretch their legs and take a coffee break. We will just play it by ear a little bit and, as I said, we will invite you to introduce your crew and then provide a brief overview of your department. Mr WIGHTMAN - Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I will go from my left: Denise McIntyre, who is my head of office; Cameron Lee, who is my senior adviser; Lisa Hutton, my secretary; Michael Stevens; and Robert Williams. CHAIR - Some of whom we know very well, Minister. Mr WIGHTMAN - Thank you, Madam Chair. I look forward to today and certainly having a good discussion and conversation with you all and providing as much information as I certainly can. I do not have an issue with questions being asked, particularly specific questions of staffing. I encourage that. So I look forward to taking as many of those questions as I can and also using my secretary and deputy secretary as well. CHAIR - Thank you, Minister. We appreciate that, but it is protocol that the questions go to the minister and then they are allocated after that; otherwise, the team on this side might just decide anyone is a free-for-all. Mr WIGHTMAN - I would like to make some introductory comments and then offer you some discussion around the overview, if you would like, before we move to outputs. I welcome the opportunity to discuss with the committee the outputs which make up the Justice portfolio. It would assist me, and no doubt members of the committee, if we can work through them in the order in which they appear in Budget Paper No. 2. This will also ensure that I have the relevant advisers on hand for each output. There are a number of people whom we will require at the table. I will be trying to answer as many questions as I can today during the session, but I recognise that Tuesday 28 June 2011 - Part 1 3 Estimates B - Wightman UNCORRECTED PROOF ISSUE from time to time some of the more detailed questions will need to be taken on notice. Where I can avoid doing that though I certainly will. For the first time we have a specific block of time set aside after the Department of Justice outputs for the three bodies which form part of the Justice portfolio but which do not form part of the justice department for budget purposes: the Ombudsman, the DPP and the Integrity Commission. I look forward to that discussion too, especially in terms of the Integrity Commission, which is a very new agency. Perhaps the first thing I should say about the Justice budget for 2011-12 is that it is mostly a case of steady as she goes. The department will be making the savings required on a whole-of- government basis through measures such as vacancy control and reducing the cost of cars. On top of that there are some specific savings to be made in particular outputs, but these will be discussed when we get to those outputs. But steady as she goes does not mean that we are standing still. There are a couple of areas in the portfolio that will see significant change during the year and into the period of the forward estimates. The Magistrates Court of Tasmania is making greater and greater investment in therapeutic jurisprudence. This is an approach to justice that can take into account, where appropriate, the special characteristics of an offender in dealing with them in court. It is not about soft options, but it is about preventing reoffending. So far in Tasmania this has included the mental health list, court mandated diversion for drug related offending and the latest initiative, the youth justice pilot, in the Hobart Magistrates Court running during 2011. The pilot sees a magistrate dedicated to hearing youth justice matters to allow them to be dealt with more quickly and, more importantly, to deal with alleged young offenders in a holistic way rather than a series of unrelated charges. As any parent knows, punishment or other intervention is more meaningful the closer it is delivered to the event. The early indications are that the pilot is succeeding in having cases listed much faster. This is not just thanks to the court, of course. The prosecution and defence need to be ready to go when the case is listed and the youth justice workers from DHHS have also been ready to play their part. The court has shown commendable leadership in bringing all of these elements together to get the pilot underway and I look forward to seeing the final evaluation. One area of business the court no longer has to deal with is the high volume of minor traffic and other matters which used to include a court step before fines and other penalties could be collected. Frankly, this was a great waste of everyone’s time and making this an administrative process for the vast majority of cases through the Monetary Penalties Enforcement Service was a great step forward. Like therapeutic jurisprudence, MPES also takes a client centred approach. Instead of a whole lot of agencies sending notices to the same person about a range of fines, MPES can deal with a person and the fines they owe as a package. It can be hard to face up to debt. It is frightening and the temptation is just to shove the notices in the bin or not to open them at all. MPES tries to work with clients to find ways for them to pay off their debt at a rate that is manageable for that client. This does not dilute the deterrent factor of the penalty but it makes it much more likely that the penalty will be paid in the end.