Fourth Session, 41st Parliament

OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES (HANSARD)

Tuesday, November 26, 2019 Morning Sitting Issue No. 298

THE HONOURABLE DARRYL PLECAS, SPEAKER

ISSN 1499-2175 PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871)

LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Her Honour the Honourable Janet Austin, OBC

Fourth Session, 41st Parliament

SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Darryl Plecas

EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council ...... Hon. John Horgan Deputy Premier and Minister of Finance...... Hon. Carole James Minister of Advanced Education, Skills and Training...... Hon. Melanie Mark Minister of Agriculture...... Hon. Lana Popham Attorney General...... Hon. David Eby, QC Minister of Children and Family Development ...... Hon. Katrine Conroy Minister of State for Child Care...... Hon. Katrina Chen Minister of Education ...... Hon. Rob Fleming Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources ...... Hon. Michelle Mungall Minister of Environment and Climate Change Strategy...... Hon. George Heyman Minister of Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations and Rural Development ...... Hon. Doug Donaldson Minister of Health ...... Hon. Adrian Dix Minister of Indigenous Relations and Reconciliation ...... Hon. Scott Fraser Minister of Jobs, Trade and Technology...... Hon. Bruce Ralston Minister of State for Trade...... Hon. George Chow Minister of Labour ...... Hon. Harry Bains Minister of Mental Health and Addictions...... Hon. Judy Darcy Minister of Municipal Afairs and Housing and Minister of Citizens’ Services ...... Hon. Selina Robinson Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General ...... Hon. Mike Farnworth Minister of Social Development and Poverty Reduction...... Hon. Shane Simpson Minister of Tourism, Arts and Culture...... Hon. Lisa Beare Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure...... Hon. Claire Trevena

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Ofcial Opposition...... Andrew Wilkinson, QC Leader of the Tird Party ...... Dr. Andrew Weaver Deputy Speaker...... Raj Chouhan Assistant Deputy Speaker...... Joan Isaacs Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole ...... Spencer Chandra Herbert Acting Clerk of the Legislative Assembly...... Kate Ryan-Lloyd Clerk Assistant — Committees and Interparliamentary Relations ...... Susan Sourial Sessional Law Clerk...... Loredana Catalli-Sonier, QC Parliamentary Counsel ...... S. Suzie Seo Acting Sergeant-at-Arms...... Greg Nelson ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Ashton, Dan (BC Liberal) ...... Penticton Abbotsford-Mission ...... Simon Gibson Bains, Hon. Harry (NDP)...... Surrey-Newton Abbotsford South ...... Hon. Darryl Plecas Barnett, Donna (BC Liberal) ...... Cariboo-Chilcotin Abbotsford West ...... Michael de Jong, QC Beare, Hon. Lisa (NDP)...... Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Boundary-Similkameen...... Linda Larson Begg, Garry (NDP) ...... Surrey-Guildford Burnaby–Deer Lake ...... Anne Kang Bernier, Mike (BC Liberal) ...... Peace River South Burnaby-Edmonds ...... Raj Chouhan Bond, Shirley (BC Liberal)...... Prince George–Valemount Burnaby-Lougheed...... Hon. Katrina Chen Brar, Jagrup (NDP)...... Surrey-Fleetwood Burnaby North...... Janet Routledge Cadieux, Stephanie (BC Liberal)...... Surrey South Cariboo-Chilcotin...... Donna Barnett Chandra Herbert, Spencer (NDP) ...... Vancouver–West End Cariboo North ...... Coralee Oakes Chen, Hon. Katrina (NDP)...... Burnaby-Lougheed Chilliwack...... John Martin Chouhan, Raj (NDP) ...... Burnaby-Edmonds Chilliwack-Kent...... Laurie Troness Chow, Hon. George (NDP)...... Vancouver-Fraserview Columbia River–Revelstoke...... Doug Clovechok Clovechok, Doug (BC Liberal) ...... Columbia River–Revelstoke Coquitlam–Burke Mountain...... Joan Isaacs Coleman, Rich (BC Liberal) ...... Langley East Coquitlam-Maillardville...... Hon. Selina Robinson Conroy, Hon. Katrine (NDP)...... Kootenay West Courtenay-Comox ...... Ronna-Rae Leonard Darcy, Hon. Judy (NDP) ...... New Westminster Cowichan Valley ...... Sonia Furstenau Davies, Dan (BC Liberal) ...... Peace River North Delta North ...... Ravi Kahlon de Jong, Michael, QC (BC Liberal) ...... Abbotsford West Delta South...... Ian Paton Dean, Mitzi (NDP)...... Esquimalt-Metchosin Esquimalt-Metchosin...... Mitzi Dean D’Eith, Bob (NDP)...... Maple Ridge–Mission Fraser-Nicola...... Jackie Tegart Dix, Hon. Adrian (NDP)...... Vancouver-Kingsway Kamloops–North Tompson...... Peter Milobar Donaldson, Hon. Doug (NDP)...... Stikine Kamloops–South Tompson ...... Todd Stone Eby, Hon. David, QC (NDP)...... Vancouver–Point Grey Kelowna–Lake Country...... Norm Letnick Elmore, Mable (NDP)...... Vancouver-Kensington Kelowna-Mission...... Steve Tomson Farnworth, Hon. Mike (NDP)...... Port Coquitlam Kelowna West...... Ben Stewart Fleming, Hon. Rob (NDP)...... Victoria–Swan Lake Kootenay East ...... Tom Shypitka Foster, Eric (BC Liberal)...... Vernon-Monashee Kootenay West ...... Hon. Katrine Conroy Fraser, Hon. Scott (NDP) ...... Mid Island–Pacifc Rim Langford–Juan de Fuca...... Hon. John Horgan Furstenau, Sonia (BC Green Party) ...... Cowichan Valley Langley...... Mary Polak Gibson, Simon (BC Liberal) ...... Abbotsford-Mission Langley East ...... Rich Coleman Glumac, Rick (NDP)...... Port Moody–Coquitlam Maple Ridge–Mission ...... Bob D’Eith Heyman, Hon. George (NDP)...... Vancouver-Fairview Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows ...... Hon. Lisa Beare Horgan, Hon. John (NDP) ...... Langford–Juan de Fuca Mid Island–Pacifc Rim ...... Hon. Scott Fraser Hunt, Marvin (BC Liberal) ...... Surrey-Cloverdale Nanaimo ...... Sheila Malcolmson Isaacs, Joan (BC Liberal) ...... Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Nanaimo–North Cowichan...... Doug Routley James, Hon. Carole (NDP)...... Victoria–Beacon Hill Nechako Lakes ...... John Rustad Johal, Jas (BC Liberal)...... Richmond-Queensborough Nelson-Creston...... Hon. Michelle Mungall Kahlon, Ravi (NDP)...... Delta North New Westminster ...... Hon. Judy Darcy Kang, Anne (NDP)...... Burnaby–Deer Lake North Coast...... Jennifer Rice Kyllo, Greg (BC Liberal)...... Shuswap North Island ...... Hon. Claire Trevena Larson, Linda (BC Liberal) ...... Boundary-Similkameen North Vancouver–Lonsdale ...... Bowinn Ma Lee, Michael (BC Liberal) ...... Vancouver-Langara North Vancouver–Seymour ...... Jane Tornthwaite Leonard, Ronna-Rae (NDP) ...... Courtenay-Comox Oak Bay–Gordon Head ...... Dr. Andrew Weaver Letnick, Norm (BC Liberal)...... Kelowna–Lake Country Parksville-Qualicum ...... Michelle Stilwell Ma, Bowinn (NDP)...... North Vancouver–Lonsdale Peace River North...... Dan Davies Malcolmson, Sheila (NDP) ...... Nanaimo Peace River South...... Mike Bernier Mark, Hon. Melanie (NDP) ...... Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Penticton...... Dan Ashton Martin, John (BC Liberal)...... Chilliwack Port Coquitlam ...... Hon. Mike Farnworth Milobar, Peter (BC Liberal)...... Kamloops–North Tompson Port Moody–Coquitlam ...... Rick Glumac Morris, Mike (BC Liberal) ...... Prince George–Mackenzie Powell River–Sunshine Coast ...... Nicholas Simons Mungall, Hon. Michelle (NDP)...... Nelson-Creston Prince George–Mackenzie ...... Mike Morris Oakes, Coralee (BC Liberal) ...... Cariboo North Prince George–Valemount...... Shirley Bond Olsen, Adam (BC Green Party)...... Saanich North and the Islands Richmond North Centre ...... Teresa Wat Paton, Ian (BC Liberal)...... Delta South Richmond-Queensborough ...... Jas Johal Plecas, Hon. Darryl (Ind.)...... Abbotsford South Richmond South Centre...... Linda Reid Polak, Mary (BC Liberal) ...... Langley Richmond-Steveston...... John Yap Popham, Hon. Lana (NDP)...... Saanich South Saanich North and the Islands...... Adam Olsen Ralston, Hon. Bruce (NDP) ...... Surrey-Whalley Saanich South...... Hon. Lana Popham Redies, Tracy (BC Liberal) ...... Surrey–White Rock Shuswap ...... Greg Kyllo Reid, Linda (BC Liberal) ...... Richmond South Centre Skeena ...... Ellis Ross Rice, Jennifer (NDP)...... North Coast Stikine ...... Hon. Doug Donaldson Robinson, Hon. Selina (NDP) ...... Coquitlam-Maillardville Surrey-Cloverdale...... Marvin Hunt Ross, Ellis (BC Liberal)...... Skeena Surrey-Fleetwood ...... Jagrup Brar Routledge, Janet (NDP)...... Burnaby North Surrey–Green Timbers ...... Rachna Singh Routley, Doug (NDP) ...... Nanaimo–North Cowichan Surrey-Guildford ...... Garry Begg Rustad, John (BC Liberal) ...... Nechako Lakes Surrey-Newton...... Hon. Harry Bains Shypitka, Tom (BC Liberal) ...... Kootenay East Surrey-Panorama...... Jinny Sims Simons, Nicholas (NDP) ...... Powell River–Sunshine Coast Surrey South...... Stephanie Cadieux Simpson, Hon. Shane (NDP)...... Vancouver-Hastings Surrey-Whalley...... Hon. Bruce Ralston Sims, Jinny (NDP)...... Surrey-Panorama Surrey–White Rock...... Tracy Redies Singh, Rachna (NDP) ...... Surrey–Green Timbers Vancouver-Fairview ...... Hon. George Heyman Stewart, Ben (BC Liberal) ...... Kelowna West Vancouver–False Creek...... Sam Sullivan Stilwell, Michelle (BC Liberal)...... Parksville-Qualicum Vancouver-Fraserview ...... Hon. George Chow Stone, Todd (BC Liberal)...... Kamloops–South Tompson Vancouver-Hastings ...... Hon. Shane Simpson Sturdy, Jordan (BC Liberal)...... West Vancouver–Sea to Sky Vancouver-Kensington ...... Mable Elmore Sullivan, Sam (BC Liberal)...... Vancouver–False Creek Vancouver-Kingsway ...... Hon. Adrian Dix Sultan, Ralph (BC Liberal)...... West Vancouver–Capilano Vancouver-Langara ...... Michael Lee Tegart, Jackie (BC Liberal) ...... Fraser-Nicola Vancouver–Mount Pleasant ...... Hon. Melanie Mark Tomson, Steve (BC Liberal)...... Kelowna-Mission Vancouver–Point Grey...... Hon. David Eby, QC Tornthwaite, Jane (BC Liberal) ...... North Vancouver–Seymour Vancouver-Quilchena ...... Andrew Wilkinson, QC Troness, Laurie (BC Liberal) ...... Chilliwack-Kent Vancouver–West End...... Spencer Chandra Herbert Trevena, Hon. Claire (NDP) ...... North Island Vernon-Monashee...... Eric Foster Wat, Teresa (BC Liberal) ...... Richmond North Centre Victoria–Beacon Hill ...... Hon. Carole James Weaver, Dr. Andrew (BC Green Party) ...... Oak Bay–Gordon Head Victoria–Swan Lake ...... Hon. Rob Fleming Wilkinson, Andrew, QC (BC Liberal)...... Vancouver-Quilchena West Vancouver–Capilano ...... Ralph Sultan Yap, John (BC Liberal)...... Richmond-Steveston West Vancouver–Sea to Sky ...... Jordan Sturdy

Party Standings: BC Liberal 42; NDP 41; BC Green Party 3; Independent 1

CONTENTS

Tuesday, November 26, 2019 Morning Sitting Page

Routine Business

Introductions by Members...... 10769

Introduction and First Reading of Bills...... 10770 Bill M230 — High Dose Infuenza Vaccine for Seniors Act, 2019 J. Isaacs

Statements (Standing Order 25B) ...... 10771 Carson family and adoption awareness L. Troness Crossroads Hospice R. Glumac Resource Municipalities Coalition D. Davies Vancouver International South Asian Film Festival R. Singh Radon awareness S. Gibson LUSH Valley initiatives for food security R. Leonard

Oral Questions...... 10773 Labour dispute in transit system A. Wilkinson Hon. H. Bains J. Tornthwaite Primary health care services on south Vancouver Island A. Olsen Hon. A. Dix Property taxes for small businesses T. Stone Hon. S. Robinson C. Oakes Child care spaces L. Troness Hon. K. Chen Labour dispute at University of Northern B.C. S. Bond Hon. H. Bains

Tabling Documents...... 10778 Ofce of the Representative for Children and Youth, report, Caught in the Middle

Reports from Committees...... 10778 Confict of Interest Commissioner Appointment Committee, report, November 2019 R. Leonard S. Tomson

Motions Without Notice...... 10779 Appointment of Confict of Interest Commissioner Hon. J. Horgan

Petitions ...... 10779 D. Ashton Orders of the Day

Second Reading of Bills ...... 10779 Bill 42 — Fuel Price Transparency Act Hon. B. Ralston J. Sturdy S. Furstenau

Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room

Committee of the Whole House...... 10785 Bill 41 — Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples Act (continued) Hon. S. Fraser M. de Jong 10769

TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 26, 2019 Hon. S. Simpson: Today I have some staf from my min- istry in the House, on the communications side. I have the Te House met at 10:05 a.m. communications manager, Cass Togneri, along with senior public afairs ofcer Roxanne Kropp and public afairs ofcer [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] Teresa Chaboyer. Also, my administrative assistant, Taylor Hixson, is here. Please make them all welcome for the great Routine Business work they do for all British Columbians.

Prayers. Hon. A. Dix: I want to recognize four staf in the Ministry of Health who are with us today — Tomas Guerrero, who Introductions by Members is the executive director in the corporate issues and climate relations branch, and members of his team: Leah Baade, Far- Hon. S. Robinson: We have a number of attendees from rah Wiltshire and Jennifer Gillespie. the RTB who are here for question period. I want to invite Tey’re an integral part of the team that really works on members to please give them a warm welcome. We have cases around B.C. and fnds solutions for people. Many Kathy Elder, Jaimy Lang, Eliza Robinson, Christy-Lynn Sor- MLAs in the House and their constituents beneft from their ley, Michelle Mah, Jennine Gates, Christine Hunter, Brad extraordinary work. I ask everyone in the House to wish Sparrow, Tyann Blewett, Lisa Clout, Casey van Wensem and them welcome. Jo-Anne Nugent. Tese people are available online and on the phone to M. Stilwell: In the House visiting us today is my dear help renters and landlords alike. Tey work really hard on friend Rebecca Tuzzum, along with her sons, Sam and Jesse. behalf of that relationship. I would like everyone to please I ask that the House please make them feel very welcome to give them a warm welcome. their frst visit to the Legislature.

Hon. G. Heyman: Joining us in the House today are four M. Lee: I would also like to introduce to the House four staf from the information and records management team representatives of the Marpole business improvement asso- from my ministry. Tey work hard to ensure that we’re fol- ciation in my riding. Tey are Ragnar Bertelsen, the vice- lowing records management protocol in responding to FOI president of the association; Gordon Bowman, the president; requests. Please join me in welcoming Karen Kohl, Shawn Gianni Pisanu, who is on the board as well; and Claudia Muller, Brooke McCunn and Vicki Desaulnier. Laroye, who is the executive director. [10:10 a.m.] E. Ross: Today in the House, we have two guests from my When I frst stood for election in Vancouver-Langara, I riding of Skeena, Karim Basaria and Rajinder Billing. Tey remember fondly a meeting I had with the BIA in their com- are actually here to talk about the pressures being put on the munity ofce location in the TD branch there on Granville labour force because of LNG in Skeena. Street. Recently they brought forward an initiative to put up Karim actually owns the Best Western hotel in Terrace, as a large sign two doors down from where my parents used to well as some other hotels around B.C. Rajinder is a regulated live on Granville Street for ten years, in front of the bus loop: immigration consultant. Would the members please join me “I love Marpole.” in welcoming these two guests to the House today. Clearly, travelling to Victoria today, they join with many other small business owners across many communities that M. Lee: I’d also like to welcome a constituent of mine, Mr. continue to struggle with high property tax and the burden Terry Yung, who’s here from Vancouver-Langara. Terry, as on small business owners and operators as they face rising many of you would know in this House, is a strong leader in property taxes and costs. our community in Vancouver and across Metro Vancouver. We need to ensure clearly, with the voice that they’re He has a senior leadership role with the Vancouver police bringing here today and to the House and on this precinct, department. He has had a history of instruction roles with the kind of voice we need, to ensure that we have healthy, the Justice Institute and BCIT. He’s the current chair of SUC- sustainable business communities, who are the vibrancy of CESS, the organization that has afected and helped improve our communities at large in our neighbourhoods. the lives of many Vancouverites and British Columbians across Metro Vancouver. Hon. L. Popham: I am pleased to welcome to the House Terry is a fne example of the kind of individual we need members of the food security task force. Te members of in our communities to help break down the kinds of silos the task force have been working over the past few months, and barriers and bring cross-cultural understanding. Will all looking at possibilities around technology and innovation members of the House please join me in making Terry feel and the agriculture sector. Would you all make welcome most welcome in this House. Peter Dhillon, who is the chair of the task force, as well as 10770 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, November 26, 2019

members Dr. Lenore Newman and Arvind Gupta. We thank One of the great initiatives that I absolutely adore, from Jane you for your hard work and look forward to meeting later. and her team, is that they are currently collecting messages to Santa. Tey collect thousands of letters that you can drop R. Glumac: I’d like to introduce somebody, an important of at Kitsilano 4th Avenue in mailboxes, and they work with part of my life, who, not only because…. Well, she’s one of the seniors community centre to make sure that all of those the ten people that watches QP regularly. But also because letters are answered. she’s been a big supporter of mine, and I appreciate that. [10:15 a.m.] Haven Lurbiecki in the House. Would the House please I just think that’s a testament to the fantastic neighbour- make her feel welcome. hoods, the vibrancies that we make sure we try and protect, and to business improvement areas that work tirelessly every T. Stone: I’d like to follow up on the introduction that day to support our incredible neighbourhoods. my colleague from Vancouver-Langara made to welcome the folks from the Marpole BIA, who are here. Joining them, as Introduction and well, is Jane McFadden, who is the executive director of the First Reading of Bills Kits West 4th Avenue Business Improvement Association, as well as Donna Hohl, who is the president of the Kitsilano BILL M230 — HIGH DOSE INFLUENZA West 4th Business Improvement Association, as well as the VACCINE FOR SENIORS ACT, 2019 owner of Coco’s Closet on West 4th. Tey are here to meet with members of the Legislature J. Isaacs presented a bill intituled High Dose Infuenza to discuss the challenges that they’re facing with respect to Vaccine for Seniors Act, 2019. skyrocketing property taxes and potential solutions to provide them with some relief. So could the House please J. Isaacs: I move the bill intituled High Dose Infuenza make all of these members of these business improvement Vaccine for Seniors Act, 2019, of which notice has been giv- associations welcome here today. en in my name on the order paper, be introduced and read for the frst time now. M. Stilwell: Today in the House…. I’m not sure if they’ve As we roll into the colder time of the year, autumn brings arrived yet, but up behind me, I believe, there will be 24 with it an illness many know as the fu season. In Canada, grade 11 students from Ballenas Secondary, along with their infuenza contributes to 3,500 deaths per year. Seniors have teacher Olivia Hill and student teacher Jessylee Spence. Ms. an increased risk of contracting the fu, and the negative Hill is one of the most passionate teachers I know, who impact may result in signifcant deterioration of overall teaches her students about democracy and the political pro- health, along with the addition and severity of medical com- cess. Would the House please make them feel very welcome. plications. Seniors are more likely to be hospitalized afer getting L. Troness: I just noticed that there’s an important vis- the fu. For those who are hospitalized, over 65 percent itor in the House today. Liz Harris is the executive direct- had an underlying health condition, and nearly 85 percent or of the Fraser Valley Health Care Foundation. I think of deaths were due to complications linked to underlying she has with her a colleague or a husband. I’ll embarrass risk factors. Tose with health conditions, such as heart or them both by saying that. Would the House please wel- stroke, diabetes, lung conditions, kidney disease or other come them both today. compromised immune systems are at a higher risk of fu- related complications. J. Johal: I just want to follow up on the introduction from Not only are seniors more susceptible to fu outbreaks in the Minister of Agriculture in regards to the food security shared spaces like long-term-care homes; the virus severely task force that is here today. Tey’re doing important work impacts mental and physical health. Studies have shown that — Dr. Newman and, of course, Dr. Gupta. many seniors with the fu sufer a decline in mobility. I also wanted to welcome Mr. Dhillon, whose family farm One-third who experience prolonged hospital stays also originally…. His dad started in Richmond East and has now experienced a reduction in their functional ability to carry gone on to, obviously, farming in other parts of the Lower out their daily activities. A loss of independence and func- Mainland, and Quebec as well, and is also the chairman tional ability means seniors will need additional care to meet of Ocean Spray. He’s done his family proud and remains their daily needs. a strong supporter of many charities in Richmond and Vaccination is the best way to avoid the spreading of this employs many people there as well. I ask the House once highly contagious viral infection, reduce hospital visits and again to please make our guests feel welcome. higher costs to the medical system. As we age, our immune system weakens. Te regular fu vaccine is less efective for C. Oakes: Well, it’s that holiday season. One of the things seniors and does little to protect against outbreaks in long- I want to recognize is the incredible work that business term care homes. improvement areas do to create vibrant neighbourhoods. Te cost of a high-dose vaccine ofen keeps it out of reach Tuesday, November 26, 2019 British Columbia Debates 10771

for seniors. Tis legislation, originally introduced in 2018, lay down your life for another.” It is such a privilege to have recommends access to the high-dose infuenza vaccine for people like the Carsons in my riding. seniors living in long-term-care homes. [10:20 a.m.] I hope other British Columbian parents will be encour- Mr. Speaker: Te question is frst reading of the bill. aged by their example to ofer the best gif a parent can ofer to a child: the gif of adoption, a forever family. Motion approved. CROSSROADS HOSPICE J. Isaacs: I move that this bill be placed on the orders of the day for the second reading at the next sitting of the R. Glumac: Each of our lives has a beginning. We’re born House afer today. into this world full of joy and potential and possibility. Each of our lives also has an end. Death is as much a part of our Bill M230, High Dose Infuenza Vaccine for Seniors Act, life as birth. Te ending of our lives is something we don’t 2019, introduced, read a frst time and ordered to be placed like to talk about, but each of us will face it one day. Each of on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of us deserves to be treated with respect and dignity and com- the House afer today. passion when that happens. A few months ago, I had the opportunity to visit Cross- Statements roads Hospice in Port Moody, a place dedicated to compas- (Standing Order 25B) sionately caring for people who are nearing the ends of their lives. It’s a facility that represents an option for those with a CARSON FAMILY terminal illness who aren’t able to stay at home but do not AND ADOPTION AWARENESS need to stay in a hospital. It ofers people facing a terminal illness and the ones they L. Troness: Tis month is Adoption Awareness Month. love a home-like setting flled with peace and comfort and To help create awareness, I visited with my constituents provides support for the diverse needs of patients. Hospice Allan and Dianne Carson. Allan is rector of St. John’s Anglic- services include palliative care services, art care, visiting an Church in Chilliwack, and he and Dianne are outstanding musicians, pet therapy, therapeutic relaxation and visiting examples of adoptive parents. volunteers, as well as bereavement services. Tey have ten children, and eight of them are adopted, Crossroads was built in 2003, the frst free-standing hos- ranging in age from 15 to 40. Teir amazing journey began pice in the Fraser health region. Today Crossroads has even before they were married when they decided only to expanded to include a thrif store and a healing garden. adopt. But when they faced roadblocks in their quest, they I want to thank everyone at Crossroads Hospice for all had two biological children and acted as foster parents for that they do, from the board to the employees to the volun- fve years. teers — hundreds of volunteers that have contributed over When the opportunity fnally came in 1984 to adopt, they 25,000 volunteer hours to date. Crossroads is a truly special jumped at it. Teir frst child came from South Korea, and place in our community. their second is of African-American descent. Tey ended up with fve ethnicities in their family — Chinese, Korean, RESOURCE MUNICIPALITIES COALITION African-American, European and Métis. Yet, they see no dif- ference between their natural and adopted children. D. Davies: Te Resource Municipalities Coalition is an Tere have been challenges, like long waits and cultural organization composed of municipal governments, cham- barriers. Tey felt like they had to fght the system to adopt. bers of commerce and service groups that are focused on Tere have been mental health issues, and the Carsons have responsible resource development in British Columbia. been pained by racism shown against their children. Today its municipal membership includes the city of Fort St. But today they are all successful in their own ways, and John and the districts of Taylor, Tumbler Ridge and, most they remain close as a family — a tribute to the love of their recently, Mackenzie. parents. Dianne says: “Te special joy for me has been seeing In advocating for responsible resource development, the the individual gifs blossoming within my children. Tere Resource Municipalities Coalition looks to support sustain- are so many abilities within our family members, which we able communities by addressing the impacts on ecosystems never would have seen in children who are genetically simil- as well as cumulative impacts to the environment. Tey ar to us.” believe it is also equally responsible to ensure that citizens When asked if he would recommend adoption, Allan says: receive efective social services that improve their quality of “Absolutely. But be aware you have no idea what you’re get- life and build sustainable futures within their communities. ting into any more than a couple giving birth has any idea Te coalition is collaborating with communities, muni- of what is ahead. To adopt is to willingly and consciously cipalities and industries to move together under one unifed voice. Te focuses are: helping to empower communities 10772 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, November 26, 2019 through sustainable and resource development; protecting stories right here in B.C., adding to our province’s growing and enhancing services by ensuring quality of life in a flm industry. healthy, natural environment; and researching, analyzing Community-based organic festivals like VISAFF enrich and educating communities on the economic impacts of the lives of British Columbians with their colours and stor- resource development. ies. For that, I would like to call on all present to join me Te Resource Municipalities Coalition held the develop- in appreciating and thanking VISAFF and the tireless organ- ing British Columbia’s energy roadmap symposium in Fort izers behind it like Mannu Sandhu, Raj Arneja, Raj Tandhi St. John. Te symposium provided an opportunity for pro- and Panzy Sandhu, among many others, for all their eforts. vincial and local governments with stakeholders directly involved in the industry to meet and share ideas with the RADON AWARENESS purpose of providing additional insight for the province as it seeks to develop its energy roadmap. Te overarching S. Gibson: November is Radon Action Month. We’re themes that emerged were presented to the Premier, as well being encouraged, as British Columbians, to test our homes as other key ministers, in April of this year. for radon, which is a naturally occurring radioactive gas. I Together we must recognize that the energy sector is the just found out about this, so it was new to me. engine of the B.C. economy and is only one step in advan- Radon can build up to high levels, and it’s the leading cing British Columbia’s energy roadmap. Would the House cause of lung cancer for non-smokers. It’s present in virtually please join me in applauding the Resource Municipalities every home, and the only way to fnd out is to test for it. Coalition as they continue to promote responsible resource Health Canada has a big campaign right now, each development in the province of British Columbia. November, to raise public awareness. Tis past week, actu- ally, we had an event in Abbotsford to create interest. VANCOUVER INTERNATIONAL Abbotsford is a leading community in gauging radon and SOUTH ASIAN FILM FESTIVAL encouraging citizens to investigate their homes — as a mat- ter of fact, their homes all around this province. Other muni- R. Singh: When I was a young girl growing up in India, cipalities that are testing and working on the campaign trips to the movie theatre were a highlight for my sister include McBride, Valemount, Coquitlam and Summerland. and I. We would sit there, staring at the silver screen, It’s important, and I encourage colleagues and citizens enamoured and spellbound by the colours, the songs, the to test their homes. My wife and I are fully persuaded and costumes and the stories projected in front of our pop- will be testing our home for radon. Radon is an important corn-flled faces. I still vividly recall looking forward to health issue. the new releases, watching and re-watching the old classics I appreciate this opportunity to alert our citizens to the countless times. dangers of radon. [10:25 a.m.] My fascination with flms and the creative people who LUSH VALLEY INITIATIVES bring us this captivating medium of art has not relented FOR FOOD SECURITY since my childhood. So I was really excited when I was invited to attend the opening night of the Vancouver Inter- R. Leonard: About two decades ago, driven by the belief national South Asian Film Festival. that everyone deserves to eat healthy, local food, food secur- VISAFF, as it’s commonly known, is an annual festival ity enthusiast Jean duGal hatched LUSH Valley. It stands for which was founded in 2008. Since then, it has not only been Let Us Share the Harvest. Te fruit tree program, origin- highlighting flm talent within the local South Asian com- ally coordinated by Sheila Girdlestone, continues to distrib- munity but has also been introducing Lower Mainland audi- ute unwanted fresh fruit and produce to those in need while ences to movies and creators from India, Pakistan, equally sharing with the fruit tree owners and pickers. LUSH Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Sri Lanka and other neighbouring has always been empowering to people, as community mem- countries. In the last few years, it has included flms made by bers of all ages have access to learn about local food systems, the global South Asian diaspora to their exhibits. how to grow a garden or cook healthy food. Besides showing movies, documentaries, short flms and LUSH branched out in new directions when Betty-Anne sharing stories from these diferent perspectives, they hold Juba took the helm. Tey took on the former site of the food educational workshops and sessions for those interested in bank to house a kitchen and raised gardens in the parking learning about flmmaking and flm promotion. However, of lot. Cynthia Fitton brought enthusiasm, creativity and great all the great things they do, the most endearing, the most skill to grow amazing programs. long-lasting impact that this festival has helped cultivate, Like the rebirth of a growing season, with the large is the creative community of local artists that they have facility gone, LUSH has sprouted a new way of operating. brought together who now collaborate and create and tell Today Jen Wrye is the president, and, from a small ofce, stories about their experiences in B.C. and produce their executive director Maurita Prato oversees programs that have taken root throughout the community. Emily Tuesday, November 26, 2019 British Columbia Debates 10773

Hutchison coordinates a large, accessible community nothing while half a million people go out into the coldest garden next door to a soup kitchen in downtown Cour- day so far this year and try to get to work, try to get their tenay. Delicious food programs and other events reach kids to child care. And when those nurses don’t show up in into the community with partners like Eureka Support the critical care units around Vancouver, it’s going to be the Society, Lake Trail School and Vanier high school. Labour Minister who’s sitting in his ofce doing nothing. [10:30 a.m.] So perhaps someone, anyone in the government ranks, Te fruit tree and gleaning program continues under can come to their senses and say that they have a plan for James McKerricher. In 2016, LUSH picked an incredible how to deal with the Metro Vancouver transit strike, which 40,000 pounds of fruit. will cripple our city. Recently, through the Ministry of Agriculture’s Feed B.C. program, LUSH receives funding for building regional food Hon. H. Bains: Respecting free collective bargaining, aggregation in the Comox Valley. Five local farms now sell respecting workers’ rights to free collective bargaining, to produce to fve local schools, and expanding into the K- this Leader of the Opposition, means do nothing. Tat is to-12 school system is the goal. incredibly sad. Congratulations to LUSH for continuing your eforts to Tis particular union, Unifor, and the Coast Mountain grow food security at home. Bus Co., have successfully bargained for decades without any help from outside, without any interruption. Tey are at the Oral Questions table right now, and they are going to negotiate a collective agreement. I’m hopeful that they will conclude their nego- LABOUR DISPUTE IN TRANSIT SYSTEM tiations today so that there is no disruption in the Lower Mainland. A. Wilkinson: Beginning tomorrow, of course, we know that commuters could well wake up to a complete shutdown J. Tornthwaite: More than 11,000 people use the of the bus and SeaBus service in Vancouver. SeaBus, and people on the North Shore have been feeling More than a million rides will not happen. Half a million the impact of this strike for, now, four weeks. Now it’s commuters will have no option. We now have learned that going to get a whole lot worse for the entire Lower Main- 60 percent of those who bus to work or to school don’t have land. B.C. Ferries is warning foot passengers that they a driver’s licence or a car and have no option. Tey will be could be stranded at the Tsawwassen terminal because the completely stranded. So it’s time for this government to act strike will cut of all public transit. on behalf of British Columbians and do something real — in My question to the minister: what is his advice to com- fact, do something at all. muters who will be lef stranded at the Tsawwassen ferry Te question goes to the government, presumably to the tomorrow? Labour Minister, perhaps the Transportation Minister, [10:35 a.m.] because perhaps they don’t agree that “do nothing” is a policy. Can we hear from anyone in the government ranks Hon. H. Bains: Both parties are at the table right now, who has an idea of what they’re actually going to do tomor- and they are bargaining. I have full faith in both of those row, rather than sit in their ofces and watch television? parties — that they will be successfully concluding their negotiations today so that there is no disruption. I know Hon. H. Bains: I am more optimistic than that party that both of those parties that are at the table right now over there is ever going to be when it comes to collective understand their responsibility to their customers, the bargaining. transit riders and everyone else who uses transit. Tey are It is always incredibly stressful for those who see that there working hard right now. might be a threat of a transit shutdown, and no one wants to Unlike that side, I have full faith in those two parties see disruption in our public transportation. to conclude collective agreements, because collective agree- Te union and the company understand their responsib- ments work in this province. It has worked for decades. I ility to those who they serve — their customers, the transit know they always, when they see labour disputes, see polit- riders. Tat’s why, they are at the table today negotiating, ical opportunity. Tat is a sad state of afairs. Tey’ve learned because that’s where the contract will be negotiated — not in nothing in the last 2½ years. We’re not going to take any les- this House. sons from that side.

Mr. Speaker: Te Leader of the Ofcial Opposition on a Mr. Speaker: Te member for North Vancouver–Sey- supplemental. mour on a supplemental.

A. Wilkinson: Well, it’s clear the Labour Minister intends J. Tornthwaite: So 76,000 UBC and SFU students regu- to do absolutely nothing, whether it’s in this House, in his larly use the bus to get to class. UBC students have created ofce or in the streets of Metro Vancouver. He’s going to do a Facebook event to camp on the university mall. SFU stu- 10774 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, November 26, 2019

dents are using Facebook to organize a hike up Burnaby Hon. A. Dix: Of course, I was very proud yesterday to Mountain to get to class. be joined by the Minister of Finance in announcing a new Students are stressed. Tey’re stressed because of exams, urgent and primary care centre in James Bay, which will have and now they’re equally stressed because they don’t know if a real efect on people in the area. It’s one of 11 in operation, they’re going to get to school tomorrow because of the trans- 14 that we have announced, that are making a real diference, it strike. particularly in communities around British Columbia. What message does the minister have to the thousands of I want to note particularly the extraordinary work by doc- students who won’t be able to get to class tomorrow morn- tors and nurse practitioners and nurses in Prince George, ing? who developed their primary care network working hand in hand with an urgent and primary care centre that’s making a Hon. H. Bains: It’s interesting — and amazing, actually. real diference for people. Te member opposite is talking about students. Wasn’t it that [10:40 a.m.] party, when they were in government, that raised the tuition Here on the south Island, we’re also taking steps. Te fees three times? member will know that on November 22, which is just We are…. recently, the fnal proposal around the South Island Division of Family Practice proposal was submitted. We’re taking spe- Interjections. cifc steps and specifc action. We’re working with doctors and nurse practitioners and the community — not imposing, Mr. Speaker: Members. but working with them. Tat will lead to lasting solutions. I’m very proud of the work of the South Island Division Hon. H. Bains: It is really sad that the opposition is trying of Family Practice, very proud of the work of the Ministry to score cheap political points here at the expense of the of Health for making progress. We hope to have announce- labour dispute. But I can tell you, despite their theatrics, they ments soon. know the dispute will be resolved at the bargaining table, and the parties are at the bargaining table. It will be resolved, and Mr. Speaker: Saanich North and the Islands on a supple- I’m fully hopeful. mental.

PRIMARY HEALTH CARE SERVICES A. Olsen: I thank the minister for his response. Earlier ON SOUTH VANCOUVER ISLAND this summer — the situation was dire — in the Times Colon- ist, doctors were saying that primary care in the greater Vic- A. Olsen: Over a year ago, I asked the Minister of Health toria area was on the verge of collapse. for realistic timelines about when community members in I’ve met with a wide variety of health care practitioners my riding will start to see real solutions to the shortage in my riding to discuss the situation that’s going on in their of primary health care services in Saanich North and the ofces. Health professionals are exhausted, exasperated and Islands. In his response, he mentioned that one in six British feeling underappreciated. Te system is overburdened, and Columbians was without a family doctor. He also promised practitioners are burning out. that a primary care network would be established in several Since those questions last year, I’ve had a constant fow areas in the province, including the Saanich Peninsula, with- of communications from my constituents, who are equally in the year. exhausted and exasperated and feeling as ignored as those in In April of this year, I again asked the Minister of Health the health care system that we rely on. Patient attachment to about the health care crisis in my riding and many other a primary health care home is important. However, it is just a areas in the province. His response was that government was single metric. It’s equally important that we not forget some hiring hundreds of family practice doctors, nurse practition- of these most deeply intimate relationships with our health ers and clinical pharmacists to ease the crisis. care professionals. We must focus on the quality of life for At the time, the minister was quite optimistic about get- both patient and practitioner. ting new primary care networks established around the Again to the Minister of Health, how is the vision of his province and, in particular, specifc areas of the province transformation of our primary health care system not only experiencing acute shortages. In my riding today, the most addressing patient attachment to practitioners but also substantial work relieving pressure has been done by non- ensuring that they have a quality of life and a health care sys- proft organizations. tem that’s meeting the needs in our community? My question is to the Minister of Health. On the ground, my constituents are not seeing results. Tey’re having dif- Hon. A. Dix: Yes, I think that in particular, young doc- culty accessing primary care services. What is the delay in tors have a diferent view of the way their practices should changing the outcomes for people on the Saanich Peninsula go. Overwhelmingly, for example, in surveys we take of and across greater Victoria? young doctors, there’s a desire to move to alternate pay- Tuesday, November 26, 2019 British Columbia Debates 10775 ment models and fee-for-service. But both are essential culture organizations. Now, I think it’s important to refect parts of our system. on how we got here. We got here because of out-of-control, In the last year, for example, 338 new fee-for-service gen- skyrocketing real estate prices, and that has had signifcant eral practitioner doctors have been added in British Colum- impact — absolutely. bia. Over the past year, 129 alternate payment plan doctors We got here because the opposition ignored the problem have been added. Now, signifcant numbers, of course, are for a decade. Tey received correspondence from, I believe, retiring as well, but that is 140 net new doctors in 2018-19. the CFIB about a decade ago saying: “Will you help us with Tat doesn’t mean that we’re able to deal with all of the this?” And they ignored it. challenges out there. But what we’re doing is adding urgent Well, we have not ignored it. We engaged with stake- and primary care centres. In this area of the province in par- holders, including Vancouver and Metro Vancouver, to ticular, the most successful urgent primary care centre in look at short-term and long-term strategies to improve Langford. afordability. Tat’s why we are working on an interim We’re adding primary care networks. I cite the ones in solution for the 2020 tax year while we develop a perman- Prince George, the ones in Penticton that are working and ent fx to this situation. making extraordinary transformational change at a local level. Te support for community health centres, such as Mr. Speaker: Te member for Kamloops–South Tomp- Island Sexual Health and many in the members’ ridings, son on a supplemental. which have helped sustain, support and advance community health centres…. T. Stone: Well, the minister talks about interim solutions. Tis is a comprehensive plan, and we’re doing it method- She’s been aware of this issue for 2½ years, going on three ically, step by step, community by community, working with years, and she’s done absolutely nothing. She talks about local divisions of family practice so we’re dealing with the solutions for the future. Where is action to address the chal- problems, the problems faced both by patients and doctors lenges these small businesses are facing? in the system. Just yesterday we learned that the city of Vancouver is now I think it’s an efective response. We are doing it, as I proposing a further 8.2 percent property tax hike for the say, in partnership with divisions of family practice. It’s why forthcoming year. Te property taxes are going to go up. In I don’t think there has ever been, overall, as good a rela- the gallery with us today is Gordon Bohlmann. He’s the own- tionship between the provincial government and doctors. I er of Marpole Physiotherapy Clinic. remind the member that 98.5 percent of doctors approved Gordon’s small business employs over a dozen people, and our latest negotiated agreement in British Columbia, which his property taxes have increased by 63 percent over the last is an extraordinary success. four years. Now he’s worried about the coming tax year. He says: “I cannot sustain being taxed on the air and not what’s PROPERTY TAXES FOR SMALL BUSINESSES actually there.”Tere are many tragic, similar stories of small businesses facing the same dire situation. T. Stone: Today in the gallery we have representatives My question again to the minister would be this. When from the Marpole and Kitsilano West 4th Avenue business will the minister throw small businesses a lifeline and fx this improvement associations. Tey’re here in support of our unfair tax, which is hanging over the heads of small busi- split assessment legislation, which would provide relief to nesses across the Lower Mainland? small businesses that are facing skyrocketing property taxes, literally on the undeveloped air space over their heads. Hon. S. Robinson: We are doing just that. We are making Now, I also have with me here today a July 3, 2019, brief- sure that for the 2020 tax year, there is some relief coming. ing note for the Premier, which says, “Tere will be a par- We’re also making sure that we have a permanent fx that ticularly strong impact on those operating under triple-net takes into consideration all components of this tax. leases and a loss of jobs,” in relation to these skyrocketing Te members opposite seem to think that they have property taxes. absolutely no responsibility in this, and I just want to point [10:45 a.m.] out that in July 2019, we heard from the Canadian Fed- My question to the Minister of Municipal Afairs would eration of Independent Business’s Samantha Howard, who be this. Can the minister please explain to the small business says: “Despite pressure from organizations like CFIB for representatives who are here in the gallery today why she well over a decade, the provincial government has not has taken no action whatsoever to address the skyrocketing made any serious efort to address the issue.” Teir inac- property taxes, which are making it very, very difcult for tion has led to the struggles that small businesses are cur- these businesses to continue to operate and, in fact, have res- rently facing, and we’re fxing it. ulted in lots of businesses having to close their doors? C. Oakes: We’re proud of the fact that we’ve seen a 7.3 Hon. S. Robinson: Tis is a critical issue for small busi- percent increase in small business under this government, ness. It’s also a critical issue for non-profts and the arts and 10776 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, November 26, 2019 and we’re seeing a decline in small business under that 6,000 spaces announced in this fscal year, only 374 are actu- government. ally working. Tat’s about as close to zero as you can get. Dr. Pisanu immigrated to Vancouver when he was three Why is the Premier and his minister misleading parents months old, and he is now the proud owner and operator by announcing fake spaces, instead of real ones that actually of the Granville Dental Wellness Group, which employs 11 deliver care to children? people. He is here today, and he says: “In three years, my taxes have increased 60 percent. Tis is unsustainable for a Interjections. small business and cannot continue.” Can the minister tell Dr. Pisanu: what is the interim solu- Mr. Speaker: Members. tion, and how is she going to fx it for the 2020 tax year? [10:50 a.m.] Hon. K. Chen: For many, many years, we’ve all known that parents in this province have been struggling with the Hon. S. Robinson: I want to say to all the business owners child care chaos. Many of the child care operators are also here: “We have been listening. We’ve been hearing.” In fact, fnding it really hard to maintain their business with the lack last year we invited business improvement associations and of support from the previous government for 16 long years. invited others to our working group so that we could make I don’t know where the member opposite got his numbers sure that we understood the exact nature of the issue, from, but the real…. because the people on the other side didn’t even do that. Tey didn’t even gather people together to hear what was Interjections. going on, even though they said that they were struggling…. Hon. K. Chen: What we have done, and I hope the mem- Interjections. ber….

Mr. Speaker: Members. Mr. Speaker: Members.

Hon. S. Robinson: We are taking action. We will be ready Hon. K. Chen: Well, apparently they don’t want to hear an for the 2020 tax year. answer.

Mr. Speaker: Te member for Cariboo North on a supple- Mr. Speaker: Members, please allow the minister to mental. answer the question. Minister. C. Oakes: A broad coalition of stakeholders is calling on this government to address this issue before neighbourhoods Hon. K. Chen: Let me put it this way. Ever since we are changed forever. Also in the gallery today are Ragnar became government, we’ve been working hard with the sec- Berelsen, of Ragnar Jewellers, and Donna Hohl, a fantastic tor — with child care providers, with parents, with early owner of Coco’s Closet, a small boutique for women’s cloth- childhood educators — to make sure we put together a com- ing. Tese are real people, Minister, facing unsustainable tax prehensive plan to lower child care costs for the frst time increases under this government. in B.C.’s history and accelerate the creation of child care Will the minister commit to them today that she will fx spaces. Tis is the fact: under the previous government, in this for the 2020 tax year? about four years, they funded about 4,000 spaces, and we’ve achieved 10,000 spaces in a year, in only a little over a year. Hon. S. Robinson: Tey are absolutely real people, and they’re real people that the previous government ignored. Mr. Speaker: Te member for Chilliwack-Kent on a sup- We are not ignoring them. We’ve heard them loud and clear, plemental. and there will be a tax fx for the 2020 tax year. L. Troness: Mr. Speaker, you can always tell when the CHILD CARE SPACES NDP are doing a lousy job, because they go on the attack. It’s predictable. It’s like clockwork. L. Troness: Well, last week the Minister of State for But these are the minister’s own numbers. Tis govern- Child Care sent out some details to a reporter on the ment promised 24,000 new spaces over three years. Now, so-called creation of child care spaces. But it’s clear that afer two years…. they’re fake spaces, because most are not actually working. Let me explain. Interjections. Out of 4,700 spaces announced as long as a year and a half ago, fewer than 1,700 are operational today. Out of nearly Mr. Speaker: Members. Members, the member for Chilli- wack-Kent has the foor. Tank you. Tuesday, November 26, 2019 British Columbia Debates 10777

L. Troness: Tank you, Mr. Speaker. situation at UNBC. Students, the community, faculty are Tis government promised 24,000 new spaces over three upset, they are worried, and they have a very specifc ask of years. Now, afer two years of trying, only 2,055 spaces are this minister. Today, will he stand in the House, do the right actually operating. Tat’s 9 percent of their promise — afer thing and appoint a special mediator, as the faculty associ- spending, by the way, $600 million. ation at UNBC has asked him to do? [10:55 a.m.] Will the minister today make the following more forth- Hon. H. Bains: It is a situation that we were monitoring right announcement: “My program has collapsed. I’ve been very, very closely. A mediator was involved in that dispute, announcing fake spaces, not making spaces. I’m 90 percent and the mediator booked out, and they were still negotiating. short on my promise to parents, and I’m sorry to them”? Will Tey were bargaining as late as last night. the minister announce that today? We all understand the dire need to have that dispute resolved. Mediators work best — and the member opposite Interjections. will know — when both parties are willing and ready to participate. I have not seen the request. When I see the Mr. Speaker: Members. Members, we’re eating into the request…. opportunity for the opposition to ask more questions. Interjections. Hon. K. Chen: While it is very encouraging to hear the member opposite talking about child care, they have let the Mr. Speaker: Members. child care crisis grow for 16 long years and have not done much for it. Hon. H. Bains: When I leave this House, if that request is I am very sure the member opposite knows very well that there, we will seriously consider it. the number that they’re throwing is incorrect. Our govern- ment has funded over 10,000 spaces in a little over a year, Mr. Speaker: Prince George–Valemount on a supplemen- while they’ve funded 4,000 in four years. tal. Families in B.C. are struggling with the shortage of child care spaces. Early childhood educators are struggling with S. Bond: Well, last week apparently the member wasn’t the lack of support. What did the critic for child care say? even sure there was a strike at UNBC. Today, despite him When he talked about early childhood educators, he said: saying he has closely monitored the situation…. “We might as well invest in sofware and machines.” It’s been in the media for hours, Minister. Obviously, you should know that they have made a request for a special Interjections. mediator. It is his opportunity to stand in this House today and Mr. Speaker: Members. respond directly, make a commitment, get it on the public record. He’s done nothing to this point. Hon. K. Chen: Well, we’re investing in people in this [11:00 a.m.] province. We have put together a comprehensive plan to Here’s what the faculty association had to say. “We are lower child care fees for the frst time in B.C.’s history. Living heartbroken for our students whose lives are being upen- wages going down because child care fees are going down. ded.” With the help of a mediator, it said bargaining could be completed with one day of fulsome negotiations, “but Interjections. without mediation, this strike could stretch on for weeks.” Minister, it is time to stand in this House, respect the Mr. Speaker: Members. wishes of the faculty association and protect students’ educa- tion at the University of Northern British Columbia. Will he LABOUR DISPUTE AT commit to appointing a special mediator now? UNIVERSITY OF NORTHERN B.C. Hon. H. Bains: I must say, the opposition member turned S. Bond: Well, having failed to take any initiative on his a blind eye when the campuses were being closed and the own to resolve the dispute at UNBC, which has the potential students sufered. to see students lose a semester of their education, today we have the faculty association at UNBC asking the minister to Interjections. appoint a special mediator. Here is what the faculty associ- ation had to say: “Without an agreement this week, there is Mr. Speaker: Members. almost no chance of saving the semester without disrupting next semester.” Hon. H. Bains: It was that party in government that Tis minister has sat on his hands. He has ignored the slashed UNBC’s budget by $1.3 million. Tat’s the mess that 10778 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, November 26, 2019 we inherited. Tat’s the mess that both parties are trying to as acting commissioner over the last several months, and deal with. thank all the staf at the Ofce of the Confict of Interest We are going to work with those parties. We are going to Commissioner for their continued dedication to the ofce. take their requests seriously, and we’ll make that decision in I would like to extend my sincere appreciation to the due course. Deputy Chair, the member for Kelowna-Mission, and all committee members for their work on this committee. It was [End of question period.] a very collaborative and positive experience, and we worked diligently on behalf of all members on this recruitment. Tabling Documents I know I also speak for all committee members in shar- ing what an honour and privilege it was to be part of this Mr. Speaker: Members, I have the honour to present a process. I want to particularly thank the support from staf report intituled Caught in the Middle, November 2019, from at the Clerk’s ofce, in particular Kate Ryan-Lloyd and the Representative for Children and Youth. Karan Riarh. I’d also like to invite you, Mr. Speaker, and all Members Reports from Committees of the Legislative Assembly in welcoming Ms. Gray as well as thanking the acting commissioner and the ofce staf at CONFLICT OF INTEREST COMMISSIONER an informal drop-in at the Hemlock Room, on the frst foor, APPOINTMENT COMMITTEE from 11:30 to 12:30 today. [11:05 a.m.] R. Leonard: I have the honour to present the report of the Special Committee to Appoint a Confict of Interest Com- S. Tomson: I’d just like to add a few comments as well missioner. and add my support and the support of the ofcial opposi- I move that the report be taken as read and received. tion for the recommendation that’s in the report to appoint Hon. Justice Victoria Gray to the position of B.C.’s Confict of Motion approved. Interest Commissioner and echo the comments of the mem- ber for Courtenay-Comox in the fact that it was a very, very R. Leonard: I ask leave of the House to move a motion to difcult choice for the committee. We had a tremendous adopt the report. range of expertise and commitment to public service in the candidates we interviewed, and all of them, I think, would Leave granted. have made great confict of interest commissioners for the province. R. Leonard: I move that the report be adopted, and in We were honoured to participate in the process and are doing so, I’d like to make some brief comments. encouraged by the commitment of all of the candidates who Tis report constitutes the committee’s unanimous brought their names forward to serve the public and to pro- recommendation that the Hon. Victoria Gray, QC, be tect this democratic institution. Justice Victoria Gray, I appointed as B.C.’s Confict of Interest Commissioner. know, will maintain that commitment on behalf of all mem- Over the last several months, the committee carried bers and the province. We’re confdent, as the member for out a thoughtful and comprehensive recruitment process. Courtenay-Comox said, that she will serve all of us as mem- Committee members were incredibly impressed by the bers in this Legislative Assembly and the public of British calibre of candidates who put their names forward for the Columbia very, very well in her new role, and we look for- position of Confict of Interest Commissioner and their ward to working with her. shared interest in preserving public confdence in our I also want to thank the committee members, the Chair, democratic institutions. the Clerk’s ofce and all of those who put their names for- In coming to our decision, committee members were par- ward for this very, very important position as one of the stat- ticularly impressed by Ms. Gray’s commitment, engagement utory ofcers, the independent ofcers of the Legislature. I and interest in public service, justice and community. Along also thank Lynn Smith for her work in serving as our acting with her legal and professional background, she brings a commissioner during the interim period while we under- broad lens and perspective to ethical responsibilities and took our important work. integrity. Te committee is confdent that she will serve well I’m pleased, on behalf of the ofcial opposition, to support all members, the Legislative Assembly and the province. the recommendation in the report. On behalf of all Members of the Legislative Assembly, I would like to take this opportunity to honour and recognize Mr. Speaker: Te question is adoption of the report. former commissioner Paul Fraser, who sadly passed away in March. Mr. Fraser served as commissioner for over ten years Motion approved. and was a strong voice and guiding hand for members. I would also like to thank Hon. Lynn Smith for her service Tuesday, November 26, 2019 British Columbia Debates 10779

Motions Without Notice secrecy. In its investigation into the province’s high fuel prices, the B.C. Utilities Commission found that there was APPOINTMENT OF an unexplained discrepancy of up to 13 cents per litre. Te CONFLICT OF INTEREST COMMISSIONER industry, although given an opportunity in a supplemental report…. Te frst report came out on August 30. Te second Hon. J. Horgan: By leave, I move: report — again, conducted and managed by the B.C. Utilities [Tat this House recommend to the Lieutenant Governor in Council Commission — reported back earlier this month. the appointment of Hon. Victoria Gray, Q.C., as an ofcer of the Le- But the industry, despite being ofered that opportunity, gislative Assembly to exercise the powers and duties assigned to the failed to explain this markup, which, by BCUC’s calcula- Confict of Interest Commissioner, for a term of fve years, efective January 6, 2020, pursuant to section 14 of the Members’ Confict of In- tions, added an extra $490 million a year being paid unne- terest Act (RSBC 1996, Chapter 287).] cessarily by British Columbians. Te unexplained price dif- ference ranged from six cents per litre in northern British Leave granted. Columbia to 13 cents in greater Vancouver. Tis is money that belongs in the pockets of British Columbians, not in the Motion approved. cofers of the big oil and gas companies. Te BCUC and its analysis concluded that the price of Petitions all gasoline is driven by the cost of the most expensive 5 percent of our supply, which comes from Washington state. D. Ashton: I have a petition to present to the Legislature. Let me just read one passage from the report. Te report I rise today to present to this Legislature a petition that has says: “Tus, the market price for gasoline is being set by the been created in every province in Canada and presented cost…to acquire approximately 3 to 5 percent of the total to the respective legislatures with the request to ensure gasoline required in British Columbia.” What they’re refer- adequate driver training for those acquiring a class 1 drivers ring to there is the Pacifc Northwest spot price, which is licence to drive semi-trailers. the primary determinate of Vancouver wholesale prices. So Tis petition I am presenting has been started here in Brit- south of the border, although only 5 percent of the gasoline ish Columbia, home to some of the most challenging moun- is acquired there, this price sets the price for all of the gasol- tain regions in Canada, by a British Columbia mother who ine pricing structure in British Columbia. lost her son in that terrible bus crash in Humboldt, Saskat- Te commission goes on to say that this phenomenon chewan. has been labelled “the tail wagging the dog.” It’s really no wonder that British Columbians have the feeling that Orders of the Day they’re being ripped of every time they fll up their vehicles at the gas station. Hon. M. Farnworth: In this chamber, I call second read- Te Fuel Price Transparency Act will create a level of ing on Bill 42, Fuel Price Transparency Act. In Section A, the accountability to British Columbians that has not existed Douglas Fir Room, I call continued committee stage on Bill before. Te act will allow the Utilities Commission to col- 41, Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples Act. lect information that will shed light on how gas companies [11:10 a.m.] set their pump prices and make it available to the public. Included in the public is, of course, consumer and watch- [J. Isaacs in the chair.] dog groups. Now, the ofcial opposition continues to defend those in Second Reading of Bills the oil industry and has opposed any attempt to get to the bottom of record-high gas prices. Te day the fuel transpar- BILL 42 — FUEL PRICE ency act was introduced, Liberal members questioned the TRANSPARENCY ACT bill, because apparently they were concerned that the oil and gas companies might not approve of it. Hon. B. Ralston: I move that Bill 42 be read a second time [11:15 a.m.] now. Te Leader of the Ofcial Opposition has accused the As anyone who drives a gas-powered automobile can government of making up “demons,” even though the BCUC attest, it’s very frustrating to watch the price of gasoline shoot investigation showed very clearly that people are paying up for no reason whatsoever. Frankly, many members of the more than they should for fuel. chamber have heard from their constituents, who are tired of We recognize that this bill alone will not guarantee a feeling like they’re being gouged whenever they fll up their reduction in gas prices for consumers. But by legislating this vehicles. kind of transparency, we will pull back the curtain on the Bill 42 sends a clear message to oil and gas companies. way gasoline prices are set in this province. It will force You will no longer be allowed to set your gas prices in total companies to come clean on those mysterious sharp price markups that are all too common here in British Columbia. 10780 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, November 26, 2019

By removing the veil of secrecy, the companies will be pub- I quote from the minister in reference to the legislation. licly accountable for unfair markups that they’ve never, up “Tis legislation brings us greater transparency at the gas till now, had to explain. pumps and sends a message to the oil and gas companies We’ll also produce, most importantly, a common set of that the days of setting your…prices in secrecy are coming to facts, allowing us to properly evaluate other policy measures an end.” Well, I most certainly believe that my constituents to bring fairness to the price at the pump. If there’s a reason would hope it to be true. But I am concerned that the minis- for charging British Columbians a 13-cent premium, the oil ter is vastly overstating the outcome of this legislation. companies will have to justify it. In committee, it will certainly be interesting, and we will I look forward to the debate on this bill. be interested in exploring what the minister actually intends to do with this enabling legislation. It is clear that if passed, J. Sturdy: I do appreciate the opportunity to rise to speak the legislation will hinge on the “general or special directions to Bill 42, the Fuel Price Transparency Act. of the minister,” which the administrator will be required to I do think it is fair to say that the public has been express- act within. In other words, the devil will be in the details as ing frustration with fuel prices in British Columbia, espe- to what the administrator is tasked to do. cially relative to neighboring jurisdictions like the one just Is it the intention of the minister to look at refning capa- south of us, Washington state. Te minister just referenced city and the cost to refne this product? Does the minister the spot price. We’ll talk a little bit later about what some of intend to ask the administrator to look at the wholesale pri- the prices are in the United States, especially relative to those cing structure — perhaps the retail pricing structure, which jurisdictions like Alberta and Washington state. Te public would obviously be a very signifcantly larger task? Perhaps would like to have some more confdence that we do have a the distribution network — is that a component of what the competitive fuels market, and some transparency would be minister would task the administrator with looking at? What welcome. about the issues related to fuel types and availability or lack It’s certainly clear to me that my constituents do not have thereof of blended fuels and of the low-carbon fuel standard? that confdence. In West Vancouver–Sea to Sky, we straddle Again, what about the issues of provincial and federal tax- Metro Vancouver and a TransLink jurisdiction, as well as ation? While the minister has suggested that taxes are fxed, the Squamish-Lillooet regional district, where the TransLink in some respects, I could agree that it is a bit of a fx, a fx 18.5-cent transit levy is not in efect. in terms of provincial taxation at the highest level of any As reported in the Squamish Chief on November 10: “Gas- jurisdiction in North America. Tat is a fx, all right. It’s buddy shows that on Sunday, gas in Squamish was $1.449 also worth noting that there is a potential for taxes on taxes, per litre, while in Vancouver it was $1.319.” So to expand which are applied at variable cost of goods at various levels. on that, probably a little more clarity on that example, gas In other words, the tax costs at the pump can vary and do on that day was 18½ cents cheaper in Vancouver than in vary depending on the cost of fuels. Squamish. To add insult to injury, if the 18.5-cent TransLink Will the minister continue to give government a free pass levy was backed out of the price, theoretically, the price in on the issue of taxation and deny to the public what the Squamish arguably could have been in the $1.79-to-$1.10 minister has described for the private sector as…? I believe range or 37 cents a litre less in Squamish than in Vancouver, the minister referred to it as the best detergent is sunlight. which is a $25-to-$30 per-tank cost. I think, in fact, he’s corrected himself now and understands Over the years, I have been personally working on this that this was a reference from a Supreme Court justice. What particular issue in the region where I live, dating back to was the full quote? “Publicity is justly commended as a rem- my time as the mayor of Pemberton, in 2005, and looking edy for social and industrial diseases. Sunlight is said to at some of those input costs and understanding that the cost be the best of disinfectants; electric light, the most efective of transportation, of that fuel into the Sea to Sky — in this policeman.” Tere is hope that we will see a better illustra- case, to Pemberton — was approximately half a cent a litre. tion, a better understanding of the circumstances that we Certainly, the cost of transportation in this case was not an fnd ourselves in. excuse. Tat might have increased over time, but certainly, But we do need to look at the whole range of issues, not not to account for that discrepancy. the least of which is taxation. Te question is: will the min- On Sunday, November 10, 40 to 50 residents of Squamish ister allow — in fact, to build the confdence of the public were so incensed, and rightly so, that they protested these — the administrator to look at the efects of taxation on the outrageous price diferentials in front of gas stations along price of fuels in British Columbia, especially in relation to Highway 99. Even today — or this was actually the day our jurisdictional neighbours in Washington and Alberta? before yesterday, I think — seven to ten cents a litre more Yesterday the price of gas in Washington was 85 cents a litre, expensive in Squamish than in the North Shore. Yet when albeit U.S.; in Alberta, 95 cents a litre. the 18½ cent TransLink diferential or levy is backed out, it Of course, there is the obvious and overall issue of the again should be signifcantly cheaper in the Sea to Sky. It’s supply side. Te availability of wholesale product has to be not. Clearly, we have a problem both real and perceived. thoroughly canvassed. While B.C. typically consumes [11:20 a.m.] approximately 214,000 barrels of fuel a day — which frankly, Tuesday, November 26, 2019 British Columbia Debates 10781

was a surprising number to me, 214,000 barrels a day — could be that government would regulate gas prices. It’s true yet we only, in British Columbia, have a refning capacity of that if this government, who believes they know best about 67,000 barrels. It’s hard to avoid the principle of supply and how you should live and how business would work…. Tis is demand in relation to price in an equation that suggests that not a particularly big surprise. scarcity is an important, if not the most important, variable. Tis government has exhibited a certain arrogance with [11:25 a.m.] regard to…. It appears tempted to be the big and controlling What we hope, although honestly despair of, is that Bill 42 hand of government, despite there being little evidence that is a cynical attempt to kick the can down the road. Let’s look the strategy is efective. In fact, the BCUC, in their earlier at the timeline here. We could see regulation in the spring report this fall, warned that government price fxing reduces — and, potentially, a limited scope for the administrator that the incentive to invest in the sector, so it could have uninten- only looks at a narrow slice of the cost drivers — and then ded and unfortunate consequences. six months to a year for the administrator to do the work. According to Werner Antweiler, an economist at the Uni- I think the minister will acknowledge that for the last task versity of British Columbia, as quoted in the Vancouver Star, that the BCUC looked at, it took fve to six months and didn’t there is, relative to government price fxing, “no relief on the fully explain the pricing structures and didn’t have the mech- horizon as far as prices are concerned.” He called the idea of anisms that this proposed piece of legislation has, which will government price fxing “benign.”Te quote is: “‘Te bottom take additional time to bring out information. line is that it is neither going to make gas cheaper nor more Ten the government, of course, would be spending some expensive,’ he said. ‘Oil companies won’t be much worse of. time with the report before the public gets access to it. Or On the other hand, motorists aren’t going to be better of….’ that’s been the modus operandi for the last several years. We Meanwhile, the law won’t address the fundamental econom- look at…. I think for the Massey Tunnel re-study, the minis- ic factor driving up prices, which he argued is supply and ter sat on it for six months or so. demand.” Hey up there. So if this legislation is passed and implemented, the pro- cess, as we understand it, would appear to be that the min- Deputy Speaker: Member. ister, through OIC, or order-in-council, would appoint an May we ask the member for Nanaimo–North Cowichan administrator. I think the indication is that that administrat- to seek leave for making an introduction? or would be the BCUC, although it’s not clear in the legis- lation. Te administrator will report to the minister, as the D. Routley: May I seek leave to make an introduction? minister requires, in accordance with any general or specif- ic directions from the minister. In other words, the minister Leave granted. sets the terms of reference. Te minister will require submissions to the administrator Introductions by Members on a periodic basis or a requested basis, which is logical and makes sense. Tere are certainly refning capacities that are D. Routley: I’d like the House to help me welcome — relatively stable and understood, as opposed to large whole- and I thank the member for this privilege — and thank sale swings over a short period which would acquire addi- the students of Gabriola Elementary and their teacher Lukas tional and requested inputs and information. Laurie. Tirty people are visiting the House. [11:30 a.m.] It’s fantastic to see you here. I’ll see you out there. I hope Te responsible person, which would be the companies, you’re learning a lot. I suppose, is to provide any and all data requested, whether I thank the member again for allowing this intervention. commercially sensitive or not, on a scheduled period or any Welcome. time about anything that the administrator wants. Ten the responsible person needs to maintain records for fve years. Deputy Speaker: Tank you, Member. Please proceed. What’s interesting, with regard to the administrator, is that they may or may not publish whatever they want — pro- Debate Continued tected information, trade secrets. Tey may publish, as per this legislation, if they are satisfed that the public interest in J. Sturdy: We were talking about the receipt of a report any protected information disclosed outweighs the potential and, historically, the time it takes for that report to be harm to responsible persons relative to the competitiveness assessed by government, which in the case of either the Mas- of the market for reportable fuels and public confdence in sey or the Redlin report on B.C. Ferries was between six the competitive market. So it is a pretty draconian piece of months and a year. I mean, really, we’re talking about at least legislation that requires that any and all information be sub- a year and a half to two years before we see any action, mitted when necessary or when requested. potentially. It’s interesting, too, that for whatever reason, the legis- But then it begs the question: then what? Both the Premier lation has a component to it which is somewhat unique and the Minister of Trade have hinted that the next steps and highlights that there is an ability, or an opportunity, for 10782 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, November 26, 2019 the administrator, or their agents I suppose, to enter into a years — but now they want the federal government to arbit- private dwelling to seize records. rarily increase supply on that same pipeline. I thought it was odd that there would be a consideration, I Keeping this inconsistent approach in mind, British Col- suppose, that Suncor would be keeping a second set of books umbians, as I mentioned earlier, consume 214,000 barrels of in somebody’s basement, but regardless…. And I wasn’t sure refned petroleum product a day. B.C. has two refneries. Te that that was actually a necessary piece, because I would have Tidewater Midstream and Infrastructure in Prince George thought that they could have been compelled to provide the — otherwise known, historically, as Husky; it was sold this information otherwise. Certainly, the penalties are fairly sig- fall — with a capacity of 12,000 barrels a day, which is, in the nifcant, and that would be a signifcant risk, as the admin- scheme of things, pretty much minuscule relative to refnery istrator may impose penalties, through flings in court, of $1 capacity around the world. Tat’s in Prince George. Ten million per day — not instance but per day — or six months Parkland, in Burnaby, with 55,000 barrels a day. So a com- in jail, or both. bined capacity of 67,000 barrels a day, which means that rel- Te devil will certainly be in the details of ministerial dir- ative to the 215,000 barrels a day that we consume, the two ection and terms of reference provided to the administrat- refneries can’t come close to meeting the demands of British or. Will those terms of reference be limited to wholesale Columbia. or include retail? Will they include special fuel standards Obvious to most, if not all, is that most of the gasoline requirements for B.C. — i.e., the low-carbon fuel standard — consumed in British Columbia comes from Alberta, primar- and the cost of supplying those types of fuels? Will the min- ily through the Trans Mountain pipeline. Although this gov- ister include in the terms of reference the range of taxes, be ernment has been doing everything it can to stop the it fxed or variable, including PST and GST? increase in capacity for this very same pipeline, let’s look at Te whole issue of wholesale supply. Tis whole initiative what the Premier has to say about refneries. or the direction to the administrator could be broad or nar- In May 2018, he said: “Let’s make more refned gasoline row, small and simple or complex. Ten it begs the question, here.” Tat was in Business in Vancouver in May 2018. Ten with regard to the outcome: what then? What are the in April 2019, he said he didn’t want a refnery here. He options? Really, what are the options that this government wanted it in Alberta. “I would suggest Alberta has more has for enhancing competitiveness? It seems clear that lack expertise in this area, and it might be a better place for of supply afects the competitive nature of the market here in new refning capacity.” Tat was in the Vancouver Sun on British Columbia, but what are we going to do about it? Or April 26, 2019. Ten the Premier said: “No, hold on. Not in what are the minister and the Premier intending to do about Alberta.” Let’s build more refneries in the land of his bro, it? Build a refnery perhaps? I know the Premier has specu- Gov. Jay Inslee. “When we talk about more refning capa- lated on that. Lower taxes? Or perhaps, goodness knows, you city, not in the Lower Mainland but somewhere in North could build a pipeline. America — perhaps to the south of us,” by which I believe he British Columbians have been expressing their frustration meant Washington state. Tat was in Hansard in April. with record-high gas prices in our province, and it is rather Most people understand that refneries take billions and disappointing that the Premier hasn’t accomplished anything billions of dollars and many years to build, if at all. I think we on this fle. It’s hard to see how this bill will change that. just need to ask Mr. David Black about that. Te simple fact He’s promised again and again to make life more afordable, is that the Premier says the market isn’t competitive enough but we still have some of, if not the, highest gas prices in but has no or few suggestions — no realistic suggestions, North America. Unfortunately, today’s legislation is unlikely anyway — as to how to increase that competition. to change that. When we look at this as a package — look at suggestions Six months ago the Premier promised relief for drivers, around refning capacity, the obstacles put in place of the and a year and a half ago he said he had a “range of options” expansion of capacity on the Trans Mountain pipeline, the to deal with high gas prices. So far, all we have to show for limited scope of assessments done in the past and the poten- this bravado is a rigged review into the causes of high gas tial for those same limitations going forward — it is very prices, which barred the BCUC from examining the impacts tempting to paraphrase Macbeth with regard to a tale “full of of big taxes and restrictive policies. Government policies do sound and fury, signifying nothing.” play a crucial role, not the least of which is opposing pipeline Te proposed bill demands the whole fuel supply chain capacity to carry fuels. hand over their data secrets with no recourse. It does beg [11:35 a.m.] the question: even if they get that information — and I’m Te Premier and the NDP have spent considerable tax- sure there will be some challenges to that — what is the payer money on lawyers and lawsuits to continue legal chal- government going to do with it? How is it going to increase lenges against the Trans Mountain pipeline, all with a not- supply and develop a competitive market? At the end of able lack of success in court, although probably and likely, the day, the bill produces paper, more reports, more delay the government would argue that they’ve had some success and few benefts. with their political base. It’s no small irony that the NDP is As we know, high gas prices afect so many peoples’ lives. opposing the Trans Mountain pipeline — and has for several It means each of us will pay more at the pump. It means Tuesday, November 26, 2019 British Columbia Debates 10783 those higher gas prices have an efect on the economy in gen- province, because while it may be a good option for those eral. It changes how much money people have in their pock- living in town or in major cities, the public transportation ets at the end of the day to spend on other things. It means service simply isn’t there for many, many people in our it afects how kids get to school and how employees get to province. work. It impacts how business transports their goods to mar- British Columbians are trying to do their best to do their kets and receives the materials, and the cost of the materials part to combat climate change and establish systems to sup- that they need to use in their businesses. It means it impacts port alternate transportation networks through modest gas the hiring practices as a refection of business confdence, taxes, but the province really does need to be taking a lead- which continues, unfortunately, its precipitous decline. ership role here. [11:40 a.m.] So let’s look back to the bill. Tis bill will collect inform- An interesting fact is that business confdence in this ation from oil and gas companies on the market conditions province is the lowest it has been since the 2008-2009 involved in setting gasoline prices and allow British Colum- recession, and that is a low low. According to Abacus data bians to see the factors that commit to those prices. British presented to the B.C. Chamber of Commerce a couple of Columbians deserve to know and understand why oil com- weeks ago, 49 percent of businesses say that their confd- panies are charging us a premium and causing the fnancial ence in the B.C. economy has declined. What has changed? stress that they are. So 79 percent say the cost of doing business has worsened, Te B.C. Green caucus applauds the fact that this bill does 46 percent of businesses say the regulatory burden has assure more transparency. Te inquiry started by the B.C. worsened, and 45 percent say the tax burden has Utilities Commission has identifed a price gap that needs worsened. Certainly, the impact of fuels and fuel supply explanation. Tat starts with having the ability to gather the have afected that business confdence. information it needs to inform why consumers are facing, so Tis legislation may be seen simply as an exercise to delay far, an unexplained extra cost for gasoline. If this is simply any action for a year or two and then blame someone else price gouging or oil companies padding profts on the backs for the misses of this government. Tis legislation may be of B.C., then additional steps absolutely need to be taken. seen as an exercise to defect responsibility and deny real Long-term, however, the best solutions lie in expanding action that can make a diference, and that, fundamentally, is our provincial investments into a more comprehensive and increasing supply and increasing competition. robust mass transit system, encouraging active transport- We do need real action to provide relief for B.C. drivers ation and continuing the focused investment in electric and B.C. families, and unfortunately, I don’t see this legisla- vehicles. All of this is about reducing our dependence on tion as moving the needle. I do look forward to committee fossil fuels where we can, which will also reduce costs that stage and to diving a little bit deeper into the bill. I look for- we currently pay. ward to exploring it more deeply. [11:45 a.m.] Te sooner our province transitions from its dependency S. Furstenau: I’m happy today to speak to Bill 42, the Fuel on oil and gas by investing in a more comprehensive and Price Transparency Act. Te B.C. Green caucus has been robust mass transit system, encouraging alternative modes concerned with the arbitrarily high prices of gas and the fn- of transportation like cycling and walking, and continuing ancial challenges that these prices place on British Colum- its investment in electric vehicles, the better. Ultimately, we bians, especially those facing long commutes. In fact, this need to create a culture less oriented around gas-powered is exacerbated because many British Columbians have been vehicles so we can have a more livable future, and we need forced to move out of the central parts of our cities because government to make this transformation a priority. of the afordability crisis, and as a result, their commutes Government needs to invest in high-quality, afordable have gotten longer. and accessible public transit to make this a real option for Tis is an afordability issue and a quality of life issue. British Columbians across the province, because it simply is People are forced to spend more time in their cars so have not feasible for so many to go without a car today in so many less time to spend with their families, engage with their com- parts of British Columbia. munities, have rest, recreation, leisure, time to refect. So I look at the Cowichan Valley. We have many thousands while I think that transparency in gas prices is important of people who make the commute over the Malahat every so that British Columbians can know why oil companies are single day to come to the capital regional district to work. charging drivers a premium at the pump here in British Col- Tere are buses in the morning, very early, that go from the umbia, I don’t think government can stop there. north to the south over the Malahat and get you to work, Government needs to continue to take strong action on and there are buses in the afernoon that come from Victoria the afordability crisis so people can actually live where they back up to Cowichan. Tose are the only options for public work and aren’t forced to spend hours of every day in their transportation. cars. Government also needs to make a shif to an accessible, If your work schedule doesn’t align perfectly with the afordable and high-quality public transit system so that get- schedule of these commuter buses, which are full, meaning ting out of the car is a real option for people across the there is a high demand for these commuter buses, then you 10784 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, November 26, 2019 can’t have that option. Te only option lef to you is to be in a but how do we facilitate, as a province and as a government, car and driving over the Malahat and spending your time on the capacity for community-based cooperative car-sharing the highway, on the Trans-Canada, between Langford and in our communities that supports our communities, reduces Victoria, ofen an hour in that stretch just to get into town. our costs, reduces our emissions and brings us together in I recognize that Cowichan is very symptomatic of much our communities? of the rest of the province. When I travel into regions in [11:50 a.m.] rural B.C., ofen the number one issue we hear about from Recently B.C. scored top marks on Efciency Canada’s people who live in those regions is the lack of access to public Provincial Energy Efciency Scorecard and listed the electric transportation. Tey can’t get from the smaller communit- vehicle programs as some of the best practices in the coun- ies into the bigger cities and towns in order to get to doctors’ try. However, the province only earned a C-minus, and as appointments or in order to get to other appointments that the students from Mount Prevost who are currently in the they have, because there simply doesn’t exist the option of gallery will know, a C-minus isn’t really all that great — 56 public transportation. points out of a possible 100. If we’re going to be serious about recognizing how much According to the scorecard, we need to renew a com- transportation contributes to our greenhouse gas emissions, mitment to saving electricity in order to support CleanBC’s we have to be serious about creating the options that people vehicle electrifcation agenda. B.C. needs to follow in the would have access to, to use those transportation systems. As footsteps of the U.K. and the European Union, which are we have an aging demographic, more and more people will both making signifcant advancements in renewable energy, fnd that they can’t use their vehicles anymore, and they are ending funding for fossil fuel energy projects and transition- lef without the options of how to get around. Tis is a very ing their public transit systems to electric. signifcant issue. Renewable energy has been making a breakthrough in the I met last week with the B.C. Poverty Reduction Coalition, U.K. Te third quarter of this year was the frst where more who made a compelling case for prioritizing afordable and electricity was generated from renewable sources than from accessible public transit around B.C., including improving fossil fuels. Next year London will have 20 hydrogen double- service levels, free transit for youth and a sliding scale for decker buses that will run alongside electric buses in a new low-income adults. Ten we start to address not just trans- ultra-low-emission zone. London is making huge strides to portation issues and not just greenhouse gas emission issues; make the city carbon-neutral by 2050. Tat includes elec- we start to address poverty issues, because being able to trifcation of London’s bus network, bringing more electric access transportation is an essential ingredient in being able vehicles to the city and making the Tube, the underground to be an active part of the economy. transportation system, carbon-neutral. I learned from the B.C. Poverty Reduction Coalition that Te U.K.’s public transit system is an example B.C. should we’re the only jurisdiction in the Pacifc Northwest that work to follow. We need to ofer more accessible, afordable doesn’t ofer a cheaper fare for low-income adults. Tis and high-quality transit that British Columbians can easily restricts their ability to support their children, to get to work and proudly rely on. or to appointments or to participate in their communities. Te European Investment Bank recently adopted a As I mentioned, this is both a poverty reduction tool strategy to end funding for fossil fuel energy projects, and and an environmental tool — the two go hand in hand. the bank will not consider new fnancing of unabated fossil We should take this holistic, integrated approach to trans- fuels, including natural gas, from the end of 2021. Tis is in portation. It is transportation that knits our communities stark contrast to British Columbia, where just this spring 83 together. out of 87 members of this House voted to give a signifcant Te other area that needs continued government action subsidy to the fossil fuel industry by way of a close to $6 bil- is to make zero-emission vehicles a viable option for British lion subsidy to LNG Canada. Columbians. I’m happy to see that B.C. is leading the coun- Tis prioritization of energy efciency that’s happening in try in uptake on zero-emission vehicles and also noticing the U.K. and the European Union and the focus on renew- that there is a pretty signifcant demand on the infrastruc- able energy projects are part of the broader push across the ture to be able to charge these vehicles. More and more, if European Union to fght climate change, syncing their cli- you look around, those charging stations around our cities mate ambition with the Paris Agreement. Tis prioritization and towns are occupied a lot of the time. is outlined in the European Commission report on the elec- In the short-term, this means helping to reduce the cost of trifcation of the transport system, noting that to achieve the electric vehicles for families, building the supporting char- European GHG emissions targets, they will need a 50 per- ging infrastructure and setting up a regulatory regime that cent reduction of conventionally fuelled cars in urban trans- helps facilitate the shif from gas-powered engines to zero- port by 2030 and phasing them out in cities by 2050, as well emission vehicles. as achieving essentially carbon-dioxide-free city logistics in I’d also say that we want to be looking at: how do we facil- major urban centres by 2030. itate better vehicle-sharing in our communities? Not rely- Just as I was listening to the comments from the member ing on companies that come in and look to make a proft, for West Vancouver–Sea to Sky, I was looking at today’s news Tuesday, November 26, 2019 British Columbia Debates 10785 from the United Nations — the emissions gap report that came out. Te world is on track for over 3 degrees of warm- Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room ing. Levels of CO2 continue to rise — increased levels of 1.5 percent annually over the past decades. Canada’s 2030 emis- Committee of the Whole House sions forecast is 592 megatonnes, missing the goal of 511 megatonnes that we would have to meet if we were to meet BILL 41 — DECLARATION ON THE our Paris targets. RIGHTS OF INDIGENOUS PEOPLES ACT Global warming of 3 degrees indicates that we will lose (continued) all of our coral reefs. Millions around the world will face poverty, fooding. Te authors of the report said that sig- Te House in Committee of the Whole (Section A) on nifcant portions of the world will become unlivable. Anne Bill 41; S. Malcolmson in the chair. Olhof, one of the authors, said that this is defnitely not a world we want to pass on to our children and grandchildren. Te committee met at 11:20 a.m. It’s not a world we want. Taking all of this into account, I think this bill is a step On section 2 (continued). towards transparency and accountability in the oil and gas sector. However, I would like this government to recognize Hon. S. Fraser: If my recollection is correct, we’re on art- that it’s not enough to shine a light on why British Colum- icle 36 of the UN declaration. We’ve been reviewing the indi- bians are paying more for gas. We have to recognize that in vidual articles. Te question was…. I will try to answer the all of the work we do, we have a duty, over the next decade, question in three parts. And I want to thank those behind to transform the economy and transform British Columbia me who have done the work to actually come up with the to ensure that the world we are leaving for our children and answers for the specifc issues — sofwood lumber, the Col- grandchildren is a world that they can be grateful to us for, umbia treaty and the Skagit Valley treaty. I’ll do them in that not one that they will have to endure because we didn’t make order, if that’s all right with the member. the decisions that we need to make right now. Canada, several lumber-producing provinces, including With that, I will say that our caucus will support this bill British Columbia, and industry have been in the countervail- but, as ever, remind the government that we need to focus ing duty and anti-dumping duty litigation with the United on the bigger picture at hand, which is the transformation of States for the last three years. Tat litigation is ongoing with our economy. the U.S. courts under the North America Free Trade Agree- [11:55 a.m.] ment and before the World Trade Organization, and Canada leads that litigation. Canada negotiates trade agreements B. D’Eith moved adjournment of debate. with other countries and would lead any further negotiations with the U.S. It’s premature in the midst of litigation to spec- Motion approved. ulate as to what shape or form hypothetical future negoti- ations might take. Committee of the Whole (Section A), having reported When it comes to the Columbia River treaty, the Colum- progress, was granted leave to sit again. bia River treaty is a transboundary water management agree- ment between Canada and the United States. It was rati- Hon. A. Dix: I’m looking forward to seeing everybody at fed in 1964. A review of that treaty is currently occurring 1:30. I move that the House do now adjourn. between the two parties. It is the federal government that has the responsibility for conducting these negotiations, and it Motion approved. is Canada that decides on the roles of other parties on the Canadian negotiating team. Canada decided to involve three Deputy Speaker: Tis House is adjourned until 1:30 this Indigenous groups at the negotiating sessions: the Ktunaxa afernoon. Nation, as represented by the Ktunaxa Nation Council, the Secwépemc Nation, as represented by the Shuswap Nation Te House adjourned at 11:56 a.m. Tribal Council, and the Syilx Nation, as represented by the Okanagan Nation Alliance. Te province of B.C. is also par- ticipating in these negotiations. When it comes to the Skagit River treaty, the Swinomish Indian tribal council in the United States has provided cor- respondence to the province of British Columbia to halt the exploratory activities by Imperial Metals Corp. in a partic- ular area located between Skagit Valley Provincial Park in Washington state and the E.C. Manning Provincial Park in 10786 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, November 26, 2019

B.C. and to support the efort led by the Skagit environment- much a point of discussion at the negotiating table, it falls to al endowment fund to buy the mineral rights and to reclassi- the province to assign the quota to operators within B.C. I fy the area adjoining it with the adjacent E.C Manning Pro- think my question is: to what degree the minister…. vincial Park. Given the spirit and the essence of what is contained with- Te Swinomish Indian tribal council raised a number in article 36, were the province placed in that position again of concerns with this mining exploration activity, includ- as a result of an agreement signed of on by the federal gov- ing downstream efects of any development in this area, ernment with the United States — where the province was which could impose a threat to water quality in the upper put in a position where it was obliged to assign quota — is Skagit River, impacting their treaty right to fsh in the there a new dimension to that that would not have existed Skagit River. Given the concern about potential down- the last time the province was assigning quota? And that is stream impacts of this proposed activity on the treaty right an Aboriginal dimension. to fsh, the province, through the Ministry of Energy, Tere are, for a variety of positive reasons, I would sug- Mines and Petroleum Resources, has consulted with the gest, more First Nations involved in the forest sector that will Swinomish Nation tribal council about these proposed have a direct interest and maybe more that want to get into exploration activities. Te province is also consulting that sector. numerous Indigenous groups based in B.C. about poten- Does the incorporation of the UN declaration in the mat- tial impact to their Aboriginal rights and title interests. It ter contemplated by Bill 41 add an additional layer of con- is not uncommon for the province to consult with U.S.- sideration for a provincial government going forward, were based groups, where proposed projects in B.C. may have it obliged to assign trade quota to the forest sector in B.C.? downstream impacts that could afect them. [11:30 a.m.] Te bill that’s before us today, Bill 41, would not change this approach. Sufce it to say, these cross-border, interna- Hon. S. Fraser: Tanks to the member for the question. tional border issues are generally the jurisdiction of Canada, Te scenario that he has cited about quota actually isn’t but certainly B.C. believes that First Nations should play a settled at this time. So I can’t really comment directly role. But the ultimate decision of who’s at the table, I believe, about that. But we don’t anticipate that Bill 41 will change still rests with the federal government. our approach to cross-border treaty discussions, including [11:25 a.m.] this one.

M. de Jong: To the minister, that is a helpful answer in M. de Jong: Okay, that is an answer, and I appreciate the terms of understanding the approach. Te frst two examples minister providing the answer with respect to his view on I gave touch on matters for which there is clearly a shared sofwood lumber negotiations. jurisdiction within Canada, the international trade function Te Columbia River treaty, of course, has a level of falling squarely to the federal government to take the lead in importance that relates both to the management of a river those bilateral, and sometimes multilateral, negotiations. — and the environmental considerations related to that — But the subject matters themselves, having a component and a fscal dimension. Te treaty has generated hundreds of of provincial responsibility in the case of the sofwood lum- millions — dare I say billions? — of dollars over the life of ber, of course, forestry and the management of the forest its existence. My recollection is that B.C. is a signatory to the resource falling squarely within the realm of provincial con- treaty. But we should confrm that before I ask one or two stitutional authority, it does make for a complicated negoti- more questions. ation domestically within Canada, to be sure, because all of the other provinces play a role as well. It’s obviously got an Hon. S. Fraser: It’s our understanding that it was ratifed importance in B.C. between Canada and the United States back in 1964. I won’t belabour this, but the minister has made the point that Canada leads the negotiations in sofwood. I think my M. de Jong: Yeah, I have a distinct recollection of the question looks ahead, and the minister says it’s speculative photos of President Johnson, Prime Minister Pearson and at this point. But of course, much of what we’ve discussed Premier W.A.C. Bennett. Te reason I posed the question, is speculative in terms of the conversations that might take of course, is because the hydroelectric resource that is very place with First Nations. I don’t think any of us have objected much a part of the essence of the treaty is a matter that falls to that aspect of the debate. very much within the ambit and constitutional jurisdiction Tere is a history. Te speculation is guided by the history of the province of British Columbia. on this fle. We have had two kinds of trade deals. One [11:35 a.m.] imposes a border tax as a way of managing the fow of goods I took it, from the minister’s answer, though, that in the from B.C. and Canada to the United States. Te other has post–Bill 41 world, were there to be any diference in the been a quota that regulates the amount of product that can type of involvement by First Nations to what is taking place fow from Canada and B.C. into the United States. today around the negotiating table, that would exclusively In the latter example, which we are told has been very be a decision of the federal government. Te province is not Tuesday, November 26, 2019 British Columbia Debates 10787 contemplating any change whatsoever in the role played by sions, I posed the question about whether or not the govern- First Nations with respect to the work being undertaken on ment considered a treaty, particularly a modern-day treaty the Columbia River treaty. — to represent full, prior, informed consent — as satisfying that obligation. We had a discussion about that, and I don’t Hon. S. Fraser: Correct. propose to reopen that here. But I did feel an obligation to ask the minister, on behalf M. de Jong: Ten, fnally, the minister’s answer to the of the government, whether he felt that the passage of Bill question around the Skagit River treaty was again helpful. He 41, incorporating the declaration as it does, would trigger or made the point that Bill 41 and passage of Bill 41 wouldn’t could trigger a reopening of any existing treaties. change the approach taken by the province. He did say something, though, that prompted me to at least pose this Hon. S. Fraser: Te answer is no. question to the minister. Do the passage of Bill 41 and the application of the declar- M. de Jong: I’m just going to go to the section of the ation, as contemplated by Bill 41 and the provisions of article debate that took place at the Senate standing committee, 36, alter the relationship between the province and First where the Assistant Deputy Minister of Crown-Indigenous Nations or Indigenous peoples outside of British Columbia’s Relations, federally, I think supported the minister’s view borders? We tend to talk about that in terms of our oblig- in that regard. Te quote here at page 5542: “…the gov- ations within the province, but of course, the declaration ernment’s view” — in that case, the federal government’s speaks of an obligation of signatory states, and we are about view — “remains that the agreements that we enter into to be more than just a signatory state by virtue of Bill 41. with Indigenous peoples are the best example of the imple- Te minister, to be clear and to be fair, talked about mentation of the concept of free, prior and informed con- work that has taken place between the province and the sent. Tose agreements all go through a process that involves Snohomish in the case of the Skagit River and the con- community ratifcation. So no, we don’t see the adoption of” sultation that has taken place. Do the provisions of article — in that case — “Bill C-262 as reopening the agreements 36 within the declaration, to the mind of the government we have already entered into.” and the minister, change or create a diferent dimension Te minister’s view would seem to be consistent with that to the relationship between the province and First Nations of the federal government. Also, I hadn’t recalled an inter- located outside of British Columbia’s borders, particularly esting observation about the concept of “free, prior and our international border? informed consent,” where the federal government seems to take the view that in the case of a comprehensive treaty set- Hon. S. Fraser: If I can have leave to jump ahead to sec- tlement, that by defnition would constitute satisfaction of tion 3 for a moment, in Bill 41, section 3 states: “In consulta- that particular phrase. tion and cooperation with the Indigenous peoples in British A second issue arose for me out of article 37 and some- Columbia” — it’s the key piece here — “the government must thing the minister said much earlier in this discussion, relat- take all measures necessary to ensure the laws of British Col- ing to the treaty mandates. Te minister, at a certain point…. umbia are consistent with the Declaration.” So my specif- I can’t remember when, and I don’t think I’m taking it out ic referral to section 3 and the term “Indigenous peoples in of context. But I’m pretty sure that I heard him say that British Columbia” I think clarifes that issue, which we can part of the work that the government is undertaking involves discuss in the next section. adjustments or amendments or changes to treaty negotiating Tat being said, as I mentioned previously, it’s not uncom- mandates. It sounds like that is taking place and was initiated mon for the province to engage with U.S.-based groups, separate and apart from Bill 41. Te minister may wish to including First Nations, that may have downstream impacts. confrm that. Tat process won’t be afected at all. To what degree, if at all, does passage of Bill 41 afect the [11:40 a.m.] work that is taking place with respect to changing the treaty mandates that the province takes into negotiations? M. de Jong: Okay. Tat’s helpful. I won’t belabour this. [11:45 a.m.] Tere is certainly the question of the jurisdiction that the province has and those matters for which it’s responsible. I Hon. S. Fraser: Good question from the member. As I’ve took the essence of the declaration to include the notion that mentioned before and as the member is aware, every min- beyond the constitutional elements of this, signatory states ister received mandate letters from the Premier. So from 28 were accepting of an approach and an obligation that tran- months ago, or probably 27 months ago, every minister was scended their immediate borders. But the minister has clari- tasked through the mandate letters to implement the UN fed what his and the government’s view on that matter is. declaration. Let’s move ahead, then, to article 37. Just two points to My specifc mandate letter also referred to revitalizing the explore here with the minister. He may recall that a day or treaty process, I think it was, or addressing some of the fail- two ago — I think it was two days ago — in these discus- ures of the treaty process. So we’ve done that. We’ve worked 10788 British Columbia Debates Tuesday, November 26, 2019

on that. It’s not that it’s over, but certainly, we signed of on [11:50 a.m.] some signifcant changes to the treaty process just prior to Can the minister advise, on behalf of the government, fol- the federal election. It’s a tripartite group that works on that lowing passage of Bill 41…? Maybe this is the question. How, — the federal government, the provincial government and, if at all, will the passage of Bill 41 impact the province’s man- of course, the First Nations Summit. dates for treaty negotiations moving forward? I believe those changes that we’ve made were consistent with, certainly, the spirit and intent if not just the words Hon. S. Fraser: To the question, we will continue to work of the UN declaration. Signifcant changes, too, by the with First Nations inside and outside of the treaty process to federal government — release from obligation of debt — get things better. We’ve made signifcant advances in the past and then, in general, like the removal of the requirement two years, but there’s certainly more work to do. Our com- for extinguishment, some pretty fundamental changes that mitment to advance reconciliation together through legis- certainly were a problem for many nations to embark on lation builds on other work, including this work that we’re the treaty process. talking about with treaties, that we’re doing across govern- Our intent, part and parcel with the mandate letter that ment with Indigenous partners. Introducing the legislation we had to adopt the UN declaration in what we do and also solidifes this commitment and ensures that the important revitalize the treaty process…. I believe we did those in a work of reconciliation continues. complementary fashion. I move that the committee rise and report progress and ask leave to sit again. M. de Jong: Te changes to the treaty mandate un- doubtedly will provide an interesting topic for discussion at Motion approved. another time, in another venue. I won’t take up the commit- tee’s time here, mostly because it seems to have been work Te committee rose at 11:51 a.m. done previously that was not dependent upon the passage of Bill 41 and incorporation of the declaration in the way that Bill 41 contemplates. Hansard Reporting Services

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EDITORS Julia Bobak, Janet Brazier, Jane Grainger, Betsy Gray, Iris Gray, Mary Beth Hall, Louis Henderson, Bill Hrick, Catherine Lang, Paula Lee, Donna McCloskey, Quinn MacDonald, Anne Maclean, Claire Matthews, Linda Miller, Sarah Mitenko, Erik Pedersen, Janet Pink, Murray Sinclair, Robyn Swanson, Antoinette Warren, Heather Warren, Kim Westad

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TECHNICAL OPERATIONS Pamela Holmes, Daniel Powell, Patrick Stobbe

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