Monday Volume 532 5 September 2011 No. 193

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Monday 5 September 2011

£5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2011 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Parliamentary Click-Use Licence, available online through The National Archives website at www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/information-management/our-services/parliamentary-licence-information.htm Enquiries to The National Archives, Kew, Richmond, Surrey TW9 4DU; e-mail: [email protected] HER MAJESTY’S GOVERNMENT

MEMBERS OF THE CABINET

(FORMED BY THE RT HON.,MP,MAY 2010)

PRIME MINISTER,FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY AND MINISTER FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE—The Rt Hon. David Cameron, MP DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER AND LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL—The Rt Hon. Nick Clegg, MP FIRST SECRETARY OF STATE AND SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH AFFAIRS—The Rt Hon. , MP CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER—The Rt Hon. George Osborne, MP LORD CHANCELLOR AND SECRETARY OF STATE FOR JUSTICE—The Rt Hon. , QC, MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE HOME DEPARTMENT AND MINISTER FOR WOMEN AND EQUALITIES—The Rt Hon. , MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR DEFENCE—The Rt Hon. , MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR BUSINESS,INNOVATION AND SKILLS—The Rt Hon. Vince Cable, MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WORK AND PENSIONS—The Rt Hon. , MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE—The Rt Hon. Chris Huhne, MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR HEALTH—The Rt Hon. Andrew Lansley, CBE, MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR EDUCATION—The Rt Hon. , MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT—The Rt Hon. , MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR TRANSPORT—The Rt Hon. Philip Hammond, MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR ENVIRONMENT,FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS—The Rt Hon. , MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT—The Rt Hon. Andrew Mitchell, MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR NORTHERN IRELAND—The Rt Hon. , MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR SCOTLAND—The Rt Hon. Michael Moore, MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WALES—The Rt Hon. Cheryl Gillan, MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR CULTURE,OLYMPICS,MEDIA AND SPORT—The Rt Hon. Jeremy Hunt, MP CHIEF SECRETARY TO THE TREASURY—The Rt Hon. Danny Alexander, MP LEADER OF THE AND CHANCELLOR OF THE DUCHY OF LANCASTER—The Rt Hon. Lord Strathclyde MINISTER WITHOUT PORTFOLIO—The Rt Hon. Baroness Warsi

DEPARTMENTS OF STATE AND MINISTERS Business, Innovation and Skills— SECRETARY OF STATE AND PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD OF TRADE—The Rt Hon. Vince Cable, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— The Rt Hon. , MP (Minister for Universities and Science) John Hayes, MP (Minister for Further Education, Skills and Lifelong Learning) § Mark Prisk, MP Lord Green of Hurstpierpoint (Minister for Trade and Investment) PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— Edward Davey, MP Edward Vaizey, MP § Baroness Wilcox Cabinet Office— MINISTER FOR THE CABINET OFFICE AND —The Rt Hon. , MP MINISTER OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Oliver Letwin, MP PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARIES— Mark Harper, MP , MP Communities and Local Government— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Eric Pickles, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— The Rt Hon. Greg Clark, MP The Rt Hon. , MP (Minister for Housing and Local Government) PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— Andrew Stunell, OBE, MP Robert Neill, MP Baroness Hanham, CBE ii HER MAJESTY’S GOVERNMENT—cont.

Culture, Media and Sport— SECRETARY OF STATE FOR CULTURE,OLYMPICS,MEDIA AND SPORT—The Rt Hon. Jeremy Hunt, MP PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— John Penrose, MP Hugh Robertson, MP (Minister for Sport and the Olympics) Edward Vaizey, MP § Defence— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Liam Fox, MP MINISTER OF STATE—Nick Harvey, MP (Minister for the Armed Forces) PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— Gerald Howarth, MP The Rt Hon. Andrew Robathan, MP Peter Luff, MP Lord Astor of Hever, DL Duchy of Lancaster— LEADER OF THE HOUSE OF LORDS AND CHANCELLOR OF THE DUCHY OF LANCASTER—The Rt Hon. Lord Strathclyde Education— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Michael Gove, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— Sarah Teather, MP Nick Gibb, MP John Hayes, MP (Minister for Further Education, Skills and Lifelong Learning) § PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— Tim Loughton, MP Lord Hill of Oareford Energy and Climate Change— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Chris Huhne, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— , MP Gregory Barker, MP PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE—Lord Marland Environment, Food and Rural Affairs— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Caroline Spelman, MP MINISTER OF STATE—The Rt Hon. James Paice, MP PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— Richard Benyon, MP Lord Henley Foreign and Commonwealth Office— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. William Hague, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— Jeremy Browne, MP The Rt Hon. David Lidington, MP (Minister for Europe) The Rt Hon. Lord Howell of Guildford PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— Henry Bellingham, MP Alistair Burt, MP Government Equalities Office— MINISTER FOR WOMEN AND EQUALITIES—The Rt Hon. Theresa May, MP § MINISTER FOR EQUALITIES—Lynne Featherstone, MP § Health— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Andrew Lansley, CBE, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— Paul Burstow, MP The Rt Hon Simon Burns, MP PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— Anne Milton, MP Earl Howe Home Office— SECRETARY OF STATE AND MINISTER FOR WOMEN AND EQUALITIES—The Rt Hon. Theresa May, MP § MINISTERS OF STATE— Damian Green, MP (Minister for Immigration) The Rt Hon. Nick Herbert, MP (Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice) § Baroness Browning (Minister for Security) PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— Lynne Featherstone, MP (Minister for Equalities) § James Brokenshire, MP HER MAJESTY’S GOVERNMENT—cont. iii

International Development— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Andrew Mitchell, MP MINISTER OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Alan Duncan, MP PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE—Stephen O’Brien, MP Justice— LORD CHANCELLOR AND SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Kenneth Clarke, QC, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— The Rt Hon. Lord McNally The Rt Hon. Nick Herbert, MP (Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice) § PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— Crispin Blunt, MP Jonathan Djanogly, MP Law Officers— ATTORNEY-GENERAL—The Rt Hon. Dominic Grieve, QC, MP SOLICITOR-GENERAL—Edward Garnier, QC, MP ADVOCATE-GENERAL FOR SCOTLAND—The Rt Hon. Lord Wallace of Tankerness, QC Leader of the House of Commons— LEADER OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS AND LORD PRIVY SEAL—The Rt Hon. Sir George Young, MP PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY—David Heath, CBE, MP Northern Ireland— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Owen Paterson, MP MINISTER OF STATE— The Rt Hon. Hugo Swire, MP Privy Council Office— DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER AND LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL—The Rt Hon. Nick Clegg, MP Scotland Office— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Michael Moore, MP PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. David Mundell, MP Transport— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Philip Hammond, MP MINISTER OF STATE—The Rt Hon. , MP PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— , MP Mike Penning, MP Treasury— PRIME MINISTER,FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY AND MINISTER FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE—The Rt Hon. David Cameron, MP CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER—The Rt Hon. George Osborne, MP CHIEF SECRETARY—The Rt Hon. Danny Alexander, MP FINANCIAL SECRETARY—Mark Hoban, MP EXCHEQUER SECRETARY—David Gauke, MP ECONOMIC SECRETARY—Justine Greening, MP COMMERCIAL SECRETARY—Lord Sassoon PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY—The Rt Hon. Patrick McLoughlin, MP LORDS COMMISSIONERS— Michael Fabricant, MP Angela Watkinson, MP Jeremy Wright, MP Brooks Newmark, MP James Duddridge, MP ASSISTANT WHIPS— Philip Dunne, MP Stephen Crabb, MP Robert Goodwill, MP Shailesh Vara, MP Bill Wiggin, MP Chloe Smith, MP Norman Lamb, MP Mark Hunter, MP iv HER MAJESTY’S GOVERNMENT—cont.

Wales Office— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Cheryl Gillan, MP PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE—David Jones, MP Work and Pensions— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Iain Duncan Smith, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— The Rt Hon. Chris Grayling, MP Steve Webb, MP PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— Maria Miller, MP Lord Freud Her Majesty’s Household— LORD CHAMBERLAIN—The Rt Hon. Earl Peel, GCVO, DL LORD STEWARD—The Earl of Dalhousie MASTER OF THE HORSE—Lord Vestey, KCVO TREASURER—The Rt Hon. John Randall, MP COMPTROLLER—The Rt Hon. Alistair Carmichael, MP VICE-CHAMBERLAIN—The Rt Hon. Mark Francois, MP CAPTAIN OF THE HONOURABLE CORPS OF GENTLEMEN-AT-ARMS—The Rt Hon. Baroness Anelay of St Johns, DBE CAPTAIN OF THE QUEEN’S BODYGUARD OF THE YEOMEN OF THE GUARD—The Rt Hon. Lord Shutt of Greetland, OBE BARONESSES IN WAITING—Baroness Garden of Frognal, Baroness Northover, Baroness Rawlings, Baroness Verma LORDS IN WAITING—Earl Attlee, Lord De Mauley, TD, Lord Taylor of Holbeach, CBE, Lord Wallace of Saltaire

§ Members of the Government listed under more than one Department

SECOND CHURCH ESTATES COMMISSIONER, REPRESENTING CHURCH COMMISSIONERS—Tony Baldry, MP HOUSE OF COMMONS

THE SPEAKER—The Rt Hon. John Bercow, MP

CHAIRMAN OF WAYS AND MEANS—Lindsay Hoyle, MP FIRST DEPUTY CHAIRMAN OF WAYS AND MEANS—Nigel Evans, MP SECOND DEPUTY CHAIRMAN OF WAYS AND MEANS—The Rt Hon. , MP

PANEL OF CHAIRS Mr David Amess, MP, Hugh Bayley, MP, Mr Joe Benton, MP, Mr Clive Betts, MP, Mr Peter Bone, MP, Mr Graham Brady, MP, Annette Brooke, MP, Martin Caton, MP, Mr Christopher Chope, MP, Katy Clark, MP, Mr David Crausby, MP, Philip Davies, MP, Jim Dobbin, MP, Nadine Dorries, MP, Mr Roger Gale, MP, Mr James Gray, MP, Mr Mike Hancock, MP, Mr Dai Havard, MP, Mr Philip Hollobone, MP, Mr Jim Hood, MP, The Rt Hon. George Howarth, MP, Mr Edward Leigh, MP, Dr William McCrea, MP, Miss Anne McIntosh, MP, Mrs Anne Main, MP, Sir Alan Meale, MP, Sandra Osborne, MP, Albert Owen, MP, Mrs Linda Riordan, MP, John Robertson, MP, Andrew Rosindell, MP, Mr Lee Scott, MP, Jim Sheridan, MP, Mr Gary Streeter, MP, Mr Andrew Turner, MP, Mr Charles Walker, MP, Mr Mike Weir, MP, Hywel Williams, MP

HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION The Rt Hon. The Speaker (Chairman), The Rt Hon. , MP, Sir Paul Beresford, MP, Mr Frank Doran, MP, John Thurso, MP, The Rt Hon. Sir George Young, MP SECRETARY OF THE COMMISSION—Dorian Gerhold ASSISTANT SECRETARY—Joanna Dodd

ADMINISTRATION ESTIMATE AUDIT COMMITTEE Alex Jablonowski (Chairman), The Rt Hon. Hilary Benn, MP, The Rt Hon. Sir Alan Haselhurst, MP, John Thurso, MP, Stephen Brooker, Mark Clarke SECRETARY OF THE AUDIT COMMITTEE—Gosia McBride

MANAGEMENT BOARD Sir Malcolm Jack, KCB, (Chief Executive), Robert Rogers (Director General, Chamber and Committee Services), John Pullinger (Director General, Information Services), Andrew Walker (Director General, HR and Change), John Borley, CB (Director General, Facilities), Myfanwy Barrett (Director of Finance), Joan Miller (Director of Parliamentary ICT) (External Member), Alex Jablonowski (External Member) SECRETARY OF THE MANAGEMENT BOARD—Matthew Hamlyn

SPEAKER’S SECRETARY—Peter Barratt SPEAKER’S COUNSEL—Michael Carpenter SPEAKER’S CHAPLAIN—Rev. Rose Hudson-Wilkin

PARLIAMENTARY COMMISSIONER FOR STANDARDS—John Lyon, CB PARLIAMENTARY SECURITY CO-ORDINATOR—Peter Mason

5 September 2011

THE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES OFFICIAL REPORT

IN THE FIRST SESSION OF THE FIFTY-FIFTH PARLIAMENT OF THE OF GREAT BRITAIN AND NORTHERN IRELAND [WHICH OPENED 18 MAY 2010]

SIXTIETH YEAR OF THE REIGN OF HER MAJESTY QUEEN ELIZABETH II

SIXTH SERIES VOLUME 532 TWENTY-THIRD VOLUME OF SESSION 2010-2012

rates and are seeking views by 24 October. The plans House of Commons give councils a strong financial incentive to drive economic growth, as well as providing protections for places in Monday 5 September 2011 need of additional support. Subject to the outcome of the consultation, we intend to introduce business rates retention by April 2013. The House met at half-past Two o’clock Luciana Berger: There is significant concern in cities PRAYERS such as Liverpool that councils will lose money after the first year if they cannot adjust quickly enough to the changes. We have had reassurances from Ministers [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] that councils will get that support in the first year, but will the Secretary of State guarantee that they will get that additional support in years 2, 3 and 4? Oral Answers to Questions Mr Pickles: Had the provisions been in place over the past few years, Liverpool would have done particularly well out of the system. I am confident that the leadership COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT of Liverpool will respond to this, because it puts Liverpool very much in the driving seat. My opinion is that Liverpool is an extremely good place to invest. The Secretary of State was asked— Business Rates (Local Retention) Mr Burrowes: Following the riots, the viability of high streets is a priority. For my local shops, the priority 1. Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op): is reform of business rates, which they see as too high What plans he has to localise national non-domestic and lacking any real connection with local services and rates; and if he will make a statement. [69919] local decision makers. Can the Minister hasten the day when business rates are not an issue for his Department? 3. Mr David Burrowes (Enfield, Southgate) (Con): What the timetable is for the implementation of local Mr Pickles: I certainly hope so. We recognise the retention of business rates. [69921] burden of rates on small businesses. That is why we are doubling small business rate relief until the end of 6. Esther McVey (Wirral West) (Con): What the September 2012. Approximately a third of a million timetable is for the implementation of local retention business rate payers, including small shopkeepers, will of business rates. [69924] pay no rates at all for this period, and through the Localism Bill we are giving authorities powers to grant 7. Nadhim Zahawi (Stratford-on-Avon) (Con): What business rates discounts as they see fit. the timetable is for the implementation of local retention of business rates. [69925] Esther McVey: Businesses on Wirral are concerned that the retention of business rates might result in The Secretary of State for Communities and Local increased business rates. As the party of the small Government (Mr Eric Pickles): The Government have business, how are we going to protect those small engines published proposals to allow local retention of business of growth in these difficult times? 3 Oral Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Oral Answers 4

Mr Pickles: My hon. Friend makes a reasonable Mr Pickles: The Localism Bill gives local authorities point, and I can assure her that part of the consultation the discretion to do that, and my hon. Friend makes a makes it clear that local authorities will have the ability very sensible suggestion which I am very confident a to bring business rates down, but not to put them up. number of local authorities will take up.

Nadhim Zahawi: In my constituency, the local enterprise High Streets (Planning) partnership is moving swiftly to create business growth across both Warwickshire and Coventry.Can the Secretary 2. Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab): What steps his of State explain which mechanisms will allow LEPs to Department is taking to support high streets through receive funding from business rates where they, working the planning system. [69920] with the local authority or alone, have been responsible for economic growth in the area? The Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government (Greg Clark): It is a devolved Mr Pickles: LEPs are a partnership between local matter for the hon. Gentleman’s constituents, but the authorities and business, and we will be encouraging, Government are committed to the “town centre first” though we will not be prescribing, local authorities to approach, which prefers to site new retail developments pool the business rates. I know that a number of authorities on the high street. around Greater Manchester, west Yorkshire and particularly London are actively considering pooling arrangements, Nick Smith: I thank the Minister for his reply. The which has the advantage that poorer areas can benefit new planning system framework calls for a presumption from richer areas. in favour of sustainable development. Today, however, the Financial Times describes that phrase as “vaguely Michael Dugher (Barnsley East) (Lab): Barnsley council defined”. Will the Minister please take this opportunity has estimated that, had the arrangements been in place to offer us a precise definition? last year, it would have seen a cut of more than £40 million last year. Does the Secretary of State think it is fair that Greg Clark: It is the same definition that the previous poorer areas such as Barnsley may face pressures in Government and Governments before them applied. In delivering vital local public services, whereas wealthier fact, it is the classic definition. It is that development areas may see their business rates receipts go through that takes place should not be at the expense of the the roof? interests of future generations—and that is defined economically, socially and environmentally. Mr Pickles: If business rates go through the roof, they will be caught by the “disproportionate” rule and Annette Brooke (Mid Dorset and North Poole) (LD): those sums will be taken away and distributed to poorer The national planning policy framework has a welcome areas. This was designed to help councils such as Barnsley heading on promoting the vitality and viability of town to retain local growth. The figures that I have seen—we centres, but the Minister was reluctant to make an received some figures from Barnsley during the recent addition to the Localism Bill concerning district centres settlement—did not appear to be entirely accurate. I am and the important relevant hierarchy. What protection happy to work with the hon. Gentleman to get the best will he give to local neighbourhoods in the control of possible deal for Barnsley. uses and in keeping local district shopping centres viable and vital? Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab): Ministers—[Interruption]—have already made savage Greg Clark: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for her front-loaded cuts to council budgets, and now they question. The Localism Bill, through neighbourhood want to top-slice the proceeds of business rate growth planning, provides precisely such a basis to protect and, which they promised to local councils. Localising business indeed, promote the future of district high streets, and rate growth should give local authorities an incentive we have already funded a number of areas, especially on to grow their business base and to create jobs. Will the high streets, in order to demonstrate their ability to Minister explain just how central Government’s top-slicing capture the importance of regional high streets as well of business rate growth can provide that proper incentive? as of city centres. Is it not just another hit on local government finance? Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab): One of the most successful policies of the previous Conservative Mr Pickles: The hon. Lady was clearly missed by Government was their change to the planning guidance Members on her side of the House, and indeed by those in the mid-’90s to ensure that priority was given to retail on ours, judging by that welcome. development in district or city centres or adjacent to The only top-slicing that will take place is with regard them. Will the Minister now give an assurance that his to disproportionate gains, and I am pretty confident proposed changes to the planning system will not water that Kensington and Chelsea and Westminster councils that down in any way and lead to an increase in stand-alone will see enormous increases in their rates. It is only right retail developments at the expense of our city and town that we take that money away and see that it is distributed centres? to other parts of the country, such as to Barnsley. I would have thought that she would support that. Greg Clark: Yes.

Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): What incentives Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD): Local communities, will there be to encourage local authorities to introduce such as Chippenham, which choose to bring forward special low business rates for green energy schemes? neighbourhood plans to facilitate redevelopment of 5 Oral Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Oral Answers 6 their town centres may at the same time wish to restrict housing association accommodation into private rented development of out-of-town and edge-of-town accommodation at a cost of £40 more under the new developments. Will neighbourhood planners have the housing allowance. Is that an example of Government authority to do that? ideology or just of stupidity?

Greg Clark: Not only will they have the authority do Robert Neill: I suspect that it is an example of inaccurate so, but national policy will continue to be clear that point scoring by the hon. Gentleman. We propose to retail developments should be in town centres first. give local authorities greater flexibility to meet the That is crystal clear. It has been a very successful policy, pressures that vary from place to place, rather than which was first introduced by John Gummer when he having a “one size fits all” straitjacket. was Secretary of State. Transparency in Local Government Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington) (Lab): The Government have weakened protection for the high 5. David Morris (Morecambe and Lunesdale) (Con): street in the national planning policy framework and What steps he is taking to improve transparency in rejected Labour’s call for local people to have the powers local government. [69923] to plan their high streets, instead setting up a review and a retail summit. Does the Minister not recognise that what the high street needs is real action and real shops if The Secretary of State for Communities and Local we are to put the heart back into Britain’s hard-hit high Government (Mr Eric Pickles): Following public streets? consultation earlier this year, I will shortly publish a code of recommended practice on transparency, setting out the principles and minimum standards that authorities Greg Clark: There is no dilution of the importance of should follow. That will ensure that councils can be held town centres—of putting high streets first. In fact, over fully accountable to the people they serve. and above the planning system, we have relaxed parking standards so that people are able to drive and park in town centres—crucial, if they are to compete fairly with David Morris: I think we can all agree that greater out-of-town centres. It repeals something that the previous transparency is a friend of the democratic process, but Government introduced, sadly, which was blighting town it needs to be backed up by the empowerment of local centres. We reversed that. residents. How will the Localism Bill drive through both transparency and greater democratic input? Local Government Expenditure Mr Pickles: The Localism Bill will indeed do that. Perhaps the most notable of its provisions is on the 4. Chris White (Warwick and Leamington) (Con): transparency of chief executive and senior salaries, What steps his Department is taking to increase the which will have to go through a vote of the whole efficiency of local government expenditure. [69922] council. I am sure my hon. Friend understands that the Localism Bill is just part of the move towards transparency, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for which might better be described as ensuring that the Communities and Local Government (Robert Neill): The public are kept informed. most important thing that the Government are doing is to return power to local authorities, because they are Chris Leslie (Nottingham East) (Lab/Co-op): How the people who are best placed to manage their resources transparent is it for Ministers to mask the real cuts in in a way that meets local priorities, but specifically we local government spending, such as the 16% cut for are also supporting a raft of initiatives, such as the local Nottingham city council, by dreaming up a statistical government procurement programme. methodology that they call spending power and spinning it as a cut of just 8%? Why do they not just come clean Chris White: Recently, I met a local business, Colan about the cuts to the poorest areas in the country? Ltd, which was concerned about the way that local authorities procure goods and services. My constituent Mr Pickles: The body that thought up the spending stated that local authorities have conflicting policies power recommendation was the Local Government that are costing small companies such as his and in Association. Indeed, immediately before we announced some cases are wasting public money. Will the Minister it, the hon. Member for Derby North (Chris Williamson), detail what work is being done to put in place more who is sat on the Labour Front Bench, endorsed it as joined-up procurement across local authorities to support the way we should go. small businesses and ensure better use of public money?

Robert Neill: My hon. Friend makes a fair point. The Enterprise Zones estimate is that some 20% could be saved on the £50 billion that local authorities spend on third parties, which is 8. (Croydon Central) (Con): What about £452 per family a year. To that end, the Government plans he has to designate further enterprise zones. [69926] are working with the Local Government Group on behalf of the sector to identify short and longer term The Minister of State, Department for Communities savings through the local productivity programme. and Local Government (Greg Clark): The Government have authorised 22 enterprise zones. We do not have Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab): On spending plans to appoint any more. However, local enterprise efficiency, my local housing association tells me that a partnerships can confer many of the advantages of lone parent with a spare room might be moved from enterprise zones without reference to central Government. 7 Oral Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Oral Answers 8

Gavin Barwell: I warmly welcome the £20 million that need far more regeneration in Tottenham if we are to the Government are giving to the Mayor of London to see the kind of turnaround that we need in the poorest support enterprise in Tottenham and Croydon in lieu of area in London. Will the Minister meet me to discuss the designation of an enterprise zone. Will my right how we can move forward? hon. Friend confirm that that money will not be ring-fenced in any way? Will he meet a delegation from the Mayor’s Greg Clark: Having paid tribute to my hon. Friend office and Croydon council to discuss how else the the Member for Croydon Central (Gavin Barwell), I Government can support the regeneration of Croydon pay tribute to the right hon. Member for Tottenham in the light of what happened a month ago? (Mr Lammy) for his leadership in Tottenham. He knows that the funding is available to Tottenham, as indeed it Greg Clark: First, I pay tribute to my hon. Friend for is to Croydon, and I would be very happy to meet him the leadership he has shown in the community of Croydon to discuss how it is going to be spent. in the wake of the riots. I am pleased to give him the assurance he seeks. The money will be unring-fenced Housing (Armed Forces Personnel) and can be spent in the way that the people of Croydon think best. I am happy to meet such a delegation and I 9. David T. C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con): What think that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State plans his Department has in respect of the provision of will be visiting Croydon this week. housing for current and former members of the armed forces. [69927] Joan Walley (Stoke-on-Trent North) (Lab): When asked on BBC Radio Stoke why Stoke-on-Trent and The Minister for Housing and Local Government (Grant Staffordshire was not selected as an enterprise zone in Shapps): I am determined to ensure that those who have round 1, the Prime Minister, standing in Stoke-on-Trent, served or are serving in the military and armed forces said: get all the help and assistance possible with purchasing “Look, you’re not missing out on an enterprise zone, there will a home, and indeed in the Government’s affordable be an enterprise zone within the Stoke and Staffordshire Local Enterprise Partnership…and there will be one in this area and home programmes. we’ll be advised by the Local Enterprise Partnership about where it should go.” David T. C. Davies: I thank the Minister for that The local enterprise partnership did advise, but we were reply, but may I draw his attention to today’s Daily not on the list. The map boundaries have not changed, Mail, which highlights the rather shocking disparity in and we are not part of the black country. What support the housing accommodation offered to asylum seekers will the Government now give to provide the enterprise and to ex-members of the armed forces such as Private investment that is needed, and will the Minister look Alex Stringer, a triple amputee? Can the Minister assure again at our being included? us that the Government will bring forward schemes to prioritise housing for ex-servicemen and women? I believe Greg Clark: I understand the hon. Lady’s disappointment that those who have recently fought for their country that that particular bid was not approved, and I would deserve better accommodation than those who have be very happy to meet her to explain why. However, merely recently arrived here? there is some consolation in the fact that 90% of the black country’s enterprise zone is located in the Stoke Grant Shapps: I say to my hon. and, I believe, gallant and Staffordshire area, so there is some good news for Friend that I entirely agree that it is essential that people the regeneration of her area. who have been through armed service for this country should expect not just to have the disadvantages removed Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con): Can the Minister explain of having been away, such as perhaps a lost connection why part of Leeds should be an enterprise zone, but with the local area, but to be positively advantaged. I Bradford should not be and neither should Shipley? reassure him that that is exactly what our policy is Indeed, can he explain why the whole country should intended to do. I can tell the House that just this not be an enterprise zone? weekend the very first recipients under the Government’s new Firstbuy scheme, in which we aim to ensure that service personnel benefit, were Mr and Mrs Ferguson Greg Clark: Our ambition is to make the whole of Telford, who have just moved into a four-bed home. country an enterprise zone, but we go one step at a time. He was a military policeman in the Army. The answer to my hon. Friend’s question is that the decision was made by the local enterprise partnership. Unlike the previous round of enterprise zones, these Licensing Areas ones were not picked in Whitehall. It was for the local enterprise partnership to designate where it thought the 10. Graham Jones (Hyndburn) (Lab): What assessment zone would work best. his Department has made of the effectiveness of selective licensing areas. [69928] Mr David Lammy (Tottenham) (Lab): There were two areas in London bidding for an enterprise zone The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for prior to the riots: Tottenham and Croydon. Neither was Communities and Local Government (Andrew Stunell): granted enterprise zone status, but we were given a The Housing Act 2004 requires local authorities to £20 million fund, for which I am grateful. However, it review the operation of selective licensing designations, cannot be right that of Tottenham’s £10 million fund, and I certainly encourage them to do so. The Department £8 million should go to Tottenham Hotspur football has therefore not carried out an assessment itself of the club. I want to support the football club, but we will effectiveness of those areas. 9 Oral Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Oral Answers 10

Graham Jones: The main problem with selective licensing, homes actually fell last year, and I want to give credit to of course, is that it does not deal with stock condition, the work of Blackpool council’s working group, which and we see many properties in selective licensing areas is working with other agencies to reduce that number. that are squalid. Can the Minister assure local communities However, the investment that we will announce later that the Government will allow councils to include the this month will make a big difference to the figures most recent decent homes standard as a licence condition? nationally, and, I hope, in his area.

Andrew Stunell: I know that the hon. Gentleman has Alison Seabeck (Plymouth, Moor View) (Lab): I draw been very active on this issue, and I know that he has a the House’s attention to my previous declarations of an meeting with my right hon. Friend the Minister for indirect interest, which are a matter of record. Housing and Local Government next week, at which I Although I welcome all attempts to bring empty am sure he will make that point very strongly. Licensing homes back into use—I saw some excellent examples conditions are matters for local authorities when they during the recess of self-help schemes that do just that, draw up their proposals. including in Leeds and Hull—homelessness and rent have increased, as the Minister of State, Department for Chris Williamson (Derby North) (Lab): With more Communities and Local Government, the right hon. than 1 million people living in substandard privately Member for Tunbridge Wells (Greg Clark), admitted rented accommodation, and with massive front-loaded over the weekend. It was therefore surprising that his cuts to council budgets making it harder to tackle slum colleague, the Housing and Local Government Minister, landlords, the Housing and Local Government Minister wrote to me during the recess to seek my guidance and is clearly failing in his responsibilities. However, as ideas from Labour’s policy thinking. That was from a Henry Ford once said: man who pointed out that the shadow Minister was “Failure is only the opportunity to begin again more intelligently.” going to— Will the Minister therefore adopt a more intelligent approach and abandon his laissez-faire attitude to Mr Speaker: Order. May I ask the hon. Lady to come regulation, which is creating a charter for slum landlords, straight away to a question? That is what we are here by implementing the light-touch licensing system for. recommended by the Rugg review, adopted by Labour and welcomed by the National Landlords Association Alison Seabeck: I just thought that that would be an and the Association of Residential Lettings Agents? interesting point, Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker: Order. We are obliged to the hon. Even with the net addition of empty homes being Gentleman, but I think we have got the gist of it. brought back into use, can the Minister tell us when he expects house building under his Government to exceed Andrew Stunell: I am happy to tell the House that the 207,000 net additions achieved under Labour in the 14 local authorities have accepted selective licensing year before the recession hit? areas—they have approved them and put them in place. That is the way to go. Local authorities should have the Andrew Stunell: What I will say is that our investment power and the responsibility to do that; they should not in social housing, which we announced in the comprehensive have the obligation to do it. spending review with the aim of delivering 150,000 homes, will in fact deliver 170,000 homes. That is a massive Empty Homes success which will increase the stock of social housing above and beyond Labour’s targets. 11. Paul Maynard (Blackpool North and Cleveleys) (Con): What steps his Department is taking to reduce Mr Mike Hancock (Portsmouth South) (LD): Will the number of empty homes. [69929] my hon. Friend put pressure on his colleagues in the Ministry of Defence to see how they can bring back the The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for many hundreds—if not thousands—of married quarters Communities and Local Government (Andrew Stunell): that stand empty around the country? We have put in place powerful tools and incentives to support local communities in tackling empty homes. Particularly through the new homes bonus, communities Andrew Stunell: I certainly hear with great sympathy will receive a direct financial reward for bringing an what my hon. Friend says. We could perhaps have a empty home back into use, and, of course, we are discussion separately on how we can co-operate to investing £100 million in tackling empty homes directly. deliver that result.

Paul Maynard: With more than 2,000 empty homes Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green): Could across the Blackpool and Wyre boroughs covering my the Minister tell us exactly how many empty homes constituency, does the Minister agree that tackling the management orders have been used? As the number is relatively simple issue of filling empty homes in urban not likely to be very high, does that not suggest that we areas would reduce pressure on existing greenfield and ought to reform how they are used? green belt sites? Andrew Stunell: In the five years that empty homes Andrew Stunell: I certainly agree with the hon. Gentleman management orders have been in force—they were that it is a scandal that we have in this country introduced in 2006—only 46 have been made by local 300,000 homes that have been empty for longer than six authorities across the country. That contrasts with the months. In Blackpool and Wyre, the number of empty 300,000 empty homes, but they are the back-stop. I am 11 Oral Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Oral Answers 12 happy to say that a lot of good work is done by many alongside the Localism Bill. It did not happen. Then we local authorities and other agencies to bring homes were told that it would be published in Committee. That back into use. I intend to accelerate that process dramatically. did not happen either. Then we were assured that it would definitely be published before the summer recess, Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD): I would like to encourage but that did not happen either. Does the Minister the Minister to pursue with vigour and enthusiasm the recognise that by trying to bypass Parliament and dismiss points made by the hon. Member for Blackpool North legitimate concerns, he has undermined efforts to reach and Cleveleys (Paul Maynard). There are too many consensus on future planning policy? empty houses, and if we can get them occupied, there would be a lot less pressure on the open countryside. Greg Clark: That is total nonsense. The commitment was to publish the NPPF by the end of July, and we did Andrew Stunell: That is absolutely true. There has that. On not showing it to Parliament, I should say that been a substantial failure of the market in bringing I was looking at the record of the previous Government, many of these homes back into use. That is exactly what and I noticed that there was a press release on 6 August our proposals, which are being announced later this 2009 about a new Government consultation on planning month, are intended to address. regional strategies. The idea, then, that the way we have done this is not in accordance with practice is for the Planning Reform birds. It is nonsense.

12. Tristram Hunt (Stoke-on-Trent Central) (Lab): Caroline Flint: I am afraid that that answer was not What discussions he has had with heritage bodies on very helpful. I hoped that we could have a constructive his Department’s proposals to reform planning discussion. It is in all our interests to have a planning legislation. [69930] system that can provide jobs, homes and growth in a sustainable way, and we want to work with the Government The Minister of State, Department for Communities to put this situation right and reach consensus. In order and Local Government (Greg Clark): I and my officials to move forward, therefore, will he extend the consultation have met representatives from English Heritage and period on the NPPF, hold a debate on it in Government other heritage bodies several times to improve the time and allow a vote on the final document, so that neighbourhood planning aspects of the Localism Bill. I Parliament and the country can debate the reforms am pleased to say that that has resulted in several properly? helpful amendments that have enjoyed cross-party support. Greg Clark: We have put in place extensive consultation Tristram Hunt: I thank the right hon. Gentleman for arrangements: we put out a call for evidence in January; his reply. Would he now like to take the opportunity to we invited a practitioners group to publish its suggested apologise to the 3.6 million members of the National draft a few months ago; and we have had the standard Trust, whose concerns over the Government’s charter consultation period. The right hon. Lady will also know for sprawl were dismissed by the Under-Secretary of that I have committed to holding a debate here, and State for Communities and Local Government, the have asked the Chairman of the Communities and hon. Member for Bromley and Chislehurst (Robert Local Government Committee to look into the matter. Neill), as a left-wing smear campaign? Before the right It is very clear—I am completely open about this—that hon. Gentleman explains whether Sir Simon Jenkins is we want to have the fullest possible debate. I welcome a Tankie or a Trot, would he not agree that this is just her constructive approach. It is much needed because further proof that the Conservatives cannot be trusted we have a crisis in housing and growth in this country with the British countryside? that needs to be addressed by reforming the planning system in order to provide those things. Greg Clark: I noticed that my hon. Friend described some of the leaders of some of these organisations as “left wing”. If it is untrue, it is a great insult; and if it Sir Alan Beith (Berwick-upon-Tweed) (LD): Under is true, it is a great shame. The hon. Gentleman is a the strategic housing land assessment process started by passionate defender of the historic environment, but so the previous Government, developers can nominate too are we on the Government Benches, and we are potential sites to go on a list in a way that does not seem determined to preserve the character of middle England— to engage heritage organisations or heritage issues. Given but young England needs a roof over its head too. the presumption in favour of development, does that mean that heritage issues cannot be brought to bear as Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire) (Con): In those reasons for refusing applications on sites on that list? discussions with heritage organisations, was the Minister able to clarify whether local plans will be able to designate Greg Clark: I am happy to give my right hon. Friend grade I agricultural land with a specific value? an assurance that the primacy of the local plan remains, and that national policy will continue to require rigorous Greg Clark: Prime agricultural land will continue to protections to be in place for heritage assets. be protected under the NPPF. Housing (Leeds) Caroline Flint (Don Valley) (Lab): As has already been said, there has been considerable concern across the country that the Government are trying to steamroller 13. Stuart Andrew (Pudsey) (Con): What assessment through policy affecting future planning decisions. We he has made of the five-year housing plan in the Leeds were promised that the draft NPPF would be published city council area. [69933] 13 Oral Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Oral Answers 14

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for even before the Bill is introduced, so that every community Communities and Local Government (Andrew Stunell): that wants to have a neighbourhood plan can get on It is not for central Government to assess local plans. with it. Our planning reforms make it clear that it is for local councils to assess their local needs and to plan to meet Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab): Is it not the case those needs in a way that reflects local priorities. that the presumption in favour of development at the heart of the new planning framework puts every piece Stuart Andrew: I am grateful for that reply. What of green space at risk of development? steps is the Department taking to provide guidance to support investment in brownfield and inner-city locations Greg Clark: I am glad that the hon. Gentleman has to generate much needed employment and reduce the raised that question because it enables me to say damaging impact on the environment caused by developing categorically: no, the answer is that it does not. What greenfield sites? Will the Minister also look again at the presumption says is that when a local plan is absent counting windfall sites in the five-year plan? or silent, there will be an assessment of whether a development should go ahead, the test of which will be Andrew Stunell: It is certainly proper for local planning whether it is sustainable, which is absolutely crucial. I authorities to take into account windfall sites, but it is have been campaigning for the environment for my also necessary for every planning authority to ensure entire political career, and I will continue to do so. that it has sound evidence-based proposals for housing in particular, as well as for other development. I know that my hon. Friend is particularly concerned about the Gareth Johnson (Dartford) (Con): Does the Minister situation in Leeds, and it is really for Leeds to develop agree that for high streets to survive and flourish through its evidence base so that plans can go forward in a the planning system, as much control as possible should sensible and sustainable way. remain at a local level and away from regional inspectors?

Rachel Reeves (Leeds West) (Lab): Kirkstall Forge in Greg Clark: My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and Leeds West is a brownfield site that has planning permission this is the situation that we have arrived at, because for 1,000 new homes. However, if they are going to get people quite rightly resist the imposition from above of built, the Department for Transport needs to invest in a targets and policies that take no account of local opinion new railway station, which, as things currently stand, is or local needs. By stripping away those impositions on hold. Is there any joined-up thinking in this Government from above, we will have plans that represent the views to ensure that such developments get the go-ahead and and aspirations of local communities. That will start deliver much needed new homes? making people in favour of development, whereas the previous Government set them against it. Andrew Stunell: The hon. Lady has made her point, so let me make mine, which is that it is very much for the Mr Gerry Sutcliffe (Bradford South) (Lab): If the planning authority approving a development to see Minister’s plans are to support local government, what what the associated infrastructure should be and how to powers will he give it when developers do not deliver? create the investment force that can deliver it. The new The Westfield shopping centre in Bradford has taken homes bonus will deliver a substantial amount of additional 10 years to happen, and the local authority has no money to Leeds, which can borrow against it in advance powers to get the developers to deliver. Has he considered to develop the infrastructure that it needs. such powers in his new proposals?

Planning Reform Greg Clark: I visited the development site that the hon. Gentleman mentions last month. It is right in the 14. Simon Kirby (Brighton, Kemptown) (Con): What centre of Bradford, and I can see that there is a problem steps he is taking to remove burdens in the planning at the moment and that the site needs to be brought back into use. I agreed to work with the leadership of system. [69934] the council to explore ways of doing that, but he will know, as an experienced Minister, that we cannot force The Minister of State, Department for Communities a developer to act if it does not have the necessary funds and Local Government (Greg Clark): We are simplifying in place to do so. the national planning policy framework, as some Members may have noticed. Through the Localism Bill, we are Local Authority Service Provision also abolishing the regional strategies, which have placed top-down burdens on every authority in the country. 15. Julie Hilling (Bolton West) (Lab): What recent Simon Kirby: I thank the Minister for cutting back assessment he has made of potential effects on levels at the thicket of rules and regulations that hamper of local authority service provision of reductions in development. Can he quantify the cost to local authorities central Government funding to local authorities. of creating neighbourhood development plans? [69935]

Greg Clark: The cost of developing a neighbourhood The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for plan will depend on how detailed the plan being executed Communities and Local Government (Robert Neill): Local is. However, we are providing support for every government is best placed to assess and decide on local neighbourhood that wants to produce a neighbourhood priorities, not Whitehall. This Government have given plan. We have ensured that support will be available councils the power and flexibility to take decisions 15 Oral Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Oral Answers 16 locally on how to deliver the savings needed, and I hope Unauthorised Development that they will do so by reducing back-office inefficiencies and high senior salary levels, rather than cutting the 17. Caroline Nokes (Romsey and Southampton North) front-line services that matter most. (Con): What plans he has to increase the powers of local authorities in dealing with unauthorised development. Julie Hilling: Youthworkers in Oxfordshire, like others [69937] up and down the country, were instructed to work on the streets during the recent disturbances, but they are The Secretary of State for Communities and Local now all being made redundant. Youth work is clearly a Government (Mr Eric Pickles): Local authorities already front-line service, so what is the Minister going to do to have strong powers to act against unauthorised development stop this destruction? I do hope that he is not going to which apply to everyone who ignores planning controls. reiterate the nonsense that savings can be made by In the Localism Bill, we have taken action to restrict cutting executive pay and merging back-room functions. retrospective planning applications, to ensure that people do not get away with flouting the system. Robert Neill: I am sorry that, in her otherwise serious point, the hon. Lady suggests that efficiency is nonsense; Caroline Nokes: I thank the Secretary of State for I do not think that it is. In answer to her specific point, that answer. What assurances can he give me that those the British Youth Council, the National Youth Agency rules will apply equally to all residents, and that the and the National Council for Voluntary Youth Services Travelling community will not be exempt from rules have all condemned the disorder that we saw on the that apply to the rest of the population? streets and they are working well with the Government. I hope that she will support the Government’s initiative Mr Pickles: It is right and proper that we should for national citizen service, which is being piloted in the respect the lifestyle choices of the Travelling community, Bolton lads and girls club in her area. There’s youth but that does not give them particular rights over other service in action! citizens, particularly among the settled community. This Government will introduce special rules to ensure that New Homes authorities that provide pitches for Travellers receive a top-up against the new homes bonus, but the planning rules must be blind to a person’s ethnic background. 16. Mr (Greenwich and Woolwich) (Lab): How many new homes received planning Housing Supply consent in the second quarter of 2011 in England. [69936] 18. Alec Shelbrooke (Elmet and Rothwell) (Con): Whether he plans to set the strategic housing land The Minister for Housing and Local Government (Grant availability assessments of potential housing provided Shapps): The latest planning statistics show that in the by unimplemented planning permissions against the year to March 2011, local planning authorities granted five-year supply requirement. [69938] 37,500 residential planning permissions; that is up 8% on 2009-10. The Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government (Greg Clark): I can confirm that, Mr Raynsford: May I draw the House’s attention to yes, councils will be able to use unimplemented consents my interests? in their five-year supply. Will the Minister admit that the figures for the second quarter—the latest available—show that the number of Alec Shelbrooke: I am grateful for that reply, but I planning consents for residential development were down urge the Minister to work closely with councils on 23% on last year? That is the second lowest level ever publishing more guidance and setting out how to build recorded, and less than half the level necessary to a strong evidence base in order to include windfall sites, provide for housing needs. Will he also now admit that so that Leeds city council can stand up in the planning the Government’s maladroit tampering with the planning courts and use the 2.3 years of windfall supply as part system has created the near impossible—namely, achieving of the current five-year supply, because at the moment, the lowest level of housing planning permissions at the it is losing on every appeal. same time as infuriating the National Trust and other countryside groups by the prospect of indiscriminate Greg Clark: I understand my hon. Friend’s concern. growth? As he knows, I visited Leeds in recent days, and I believe he was returning from his honeymoon, on which all Members will, I am sure, wish to congratulate him. I Grant Shapps: The right hon. Gentleman was the understand the situation he outlines: having the ability architect of many of the policies that led to the lowest to use these unimplemented consents will be a start, and level of house building since the 1920s. When we rip up I would be happy to meet him, now that he is back in the regional spatial strategies, cancel his top-down targets such fine form, to continue the discussion. and put local people in charge, we can see the results, not measured over one little quarter that he plucks out of the air but over the entire first year of this new Topical Questions Government. Those results show that there were just 88,500 house building starts in the last year of his T1. [69944] Chris Skidmore (Kingswood) (Con): If he Government, and that the number had risen to 103,500 in will make a statement on his departmental the first year of this Government. That is a rise of 17%. responsibilities. 17 Oral Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Oral Answers 18

The Secretary of State for Communities and Local Croydon. Does he agree that this should be focused on Government (Mr Eric Pickles): I have today laid a the businesses that have been burnt out and devastated written statement outlining the work of my Department and the citizens who were the major victims of the over the recess. We have been promoting economic devastation? Will he be clear that he never intended growth, promoting local shops and firms, and giving £8.5 million of that riot money to be given to a very rich new incentives for councils to create jobs and businesses. premiership football club, namely Tottenham Hotspur? We have increased freedoms to local councils, cut Whitehall red tape and boosted transparency in government. We Mr Pickles: I shall be visiting Croydon very soon to have taken the lead in helping local communities get discuss the possibilities. However, it is important to back to business after the August riots. I would like to understand that the extra money made available was pay tribute to local councils that provided leadership to intended not to deal with riot damage or to get businesses their communities during that period, to the firefighters up and running again, but to deal with some of Croydon’s who bravely tackled arson in the face of violence and, long-term structural problems. I noted carefully what above all, to local residents who literally picked up their the right hon. Gentleman said about the football club, brooms to clean up and reclaim the streets after the and will be happy to discuss with him elsewhere what mess. should be done next.

Chris Skidmore: Can the Secretary of State guarantee T3. [69946] Alok Sharma (Reading West) (Con): A that, unlike the previous Government’s disastrous regional recent independent report on the use of section 106 moneys spatial strategy under which 10,000 houses were planned by Labour-run Reading borough council concluded, to be built on the Kingswood green belt, the national among other things, that it was planning policy framework will retain all current green “difficult to categorically state that officers or members in position belt protections? of power have not abused their position”. Mr Pickles: There was a time when I was a frequent What advice can the Minister offer concerned council visitor to my hon. Friend’s constituency, so I know the tax payers who want to see the full and exhaustive strength of local feeling about the green belt. Let me investigation that Labour in Reading is refusing to give him a clear and unequivocal assurance that the initiate? green belt will be protected under this coalition Government, unlike under the previous Labour Government, who The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for promised to build on it. Communities and Local Government (Robert Neill): Iam grateful to my hon. Friend for raising that important T10. [69953] Stephen Twigg (Liverpool, West Derby) point. As I am sure he will appreciate, I must be careful (Lab/Co-op): The Aspes road-Leyfield lane footpath in not to say too much about the individual case because I my constituency is little used by local people, yet it has understand that a reference may be made to the district become a focus for crime and antisocial behaviour. Will auditor, but I can say more generally that both the the Secretary of State look at the rules and bureaucracy report and his question highlight the problem that has that make it very difficult for local communities to arisen as a result of the opacity and lack of transparency secure the closure of such footpaths? of section 106 agreements. The Government inherited that problem, but we are committed to reforming section 106 Mr Pickles: I would be happy to meet the hon. agreements, and have made proposals to do so. Gentleman to discuss the specific problem he mentions; perhaps we will be able to do something to sort it out. Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op): Does I am grateful to him for raising the issue. the ministerial team agree that one of way of making local government more efficient would be to make the T2. [69945] Andrew Stephenson (Pendle) (Con): At a people who work in it feel valued, and feel that they do time when the whole country is working hard to help a good job for their communities? Is it not about time pay down the last Government’s deficit and public that Ministers spoke up with one voice about what a sector workers are experiencing a two-year pay freeze, good job those people do throughout our communities? it appears that some council chief executives are still finding elaborate ways to hike their pay. Will my right Mr Pickles: I entirely agree, and I think that if there hon. Friend join me in urging overpaid council chief was ever an example of that, it could be seen in the executives to do the right thing and take a pay cut? aftermath of the riots. I spoke to just about every council leader affected, and was immensely impressed Mr Pickles: I certainly hope that chief executives will by their determination to ensure that their communities do the right thing. Above all, this issue is not just about recovered very quickly. I cannot praise their efforts money, but a question of leadership. It is about looking highly enough. other council workers in the eye, particularly those who might face voluntary redundancy or early retirement. T4. [69947] Jason McCartney (Colne Valley) (Con): That is why chief executives should make some kind of Many of my constituents are totally perplexed about why sacrifice. Frankly, it is no good making a big song and Labour-run Kirklees council is trying to steamroller dance about taking a cut and then bumping up expenses through big housing developments in parts of the in private. countryside such as Lindley Moor and the northern gateway area while there are hundreds of empty homes Malcolm Wicks (Croydon North) (Lab): I welcome throughout the district. Does the Minister agree that the Secretary of State’s decision, in the aftermath of the the number of empty homes in Kirklees should be a riots, to give the extra £20 million to Tottenham and material consideration in the council’s local plan? 19 Oral Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Oral Answers 20

The Minister of State, Department for Communities T6. [69949] Dr Julian Huppert (Cambridge) (LD): and Local Government (Greg Clark): Yes, I do agree, Does the Minister agree that we need to keep our high and it will be entirely possible for the empty homes in streets healthy and diverse and support independent my hon. Friend’s authority to be considered as part of shops? Will he therefore support the Cambridge the contribution to the total. amendment 153AKC, tabled by Lord Greaves, to the Localism Bill, which gives local people the power to Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab): I am support their high streets in that way? not sure that the Minister entirely succeeded in convincing the House earlier with his answer to the question about The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the definition of the phrase Communities and Local Government (Andrew Stunell): “a presumption in favour of sustainable development”. The health of the high street is a fundamental characteristic Given that the interpretation of that phrase will be of a healthy community and we are strongly promoting central to the Government’s ambition to improve the that through the national policy planning framework—or planning process, will the Secretary of State consider the other way around even. We will look hard at the providing a clearer definition and placing it in the proposals that come from our noble Friends in the Library of the House? Lords and give careful consideration to them.

Greg Clark: As I said before, we have adopted exactly Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab): It is the same definition that applied under the last Government. clear from an earlier answer that the Minister sees the I have made it clear that if there are discussions to be current planning framework as a burden. Is he so held on ensuring that everyone understands precisely blinkered not to recognise the concern that his changes what is meant, I shall be very open to that, but what is could signal the return to the 1980s planning free-for-all, crucial is that we reform planning policy in order to undermining the established sequential test—brownfield, unlock jobs and create homes for the next generation of open space—and town centre policies along the way? young people. Greg Clark: I am happy to reassure the hon. Gentleman T5. [69948] David Morris (Morecambe and Lunesdale) that that is not the case. If he takes the specific example (Con): Under the coalition Government, house building of brownfield sites, he will find that paragraph 165 of statistics in England are 22% higher than those during the framework sets out clearly that land of the least the comparative period under the last Government. environmental value should be brought forward first. Does my right hon. Friend agree that we must never That is another way of saying, brownfield land first. again see circumstances in which council tax bills double yet results are so poor? T7. [69950] Henry Smith (Crawley) (Con): I welcome the proposed localisation of the council tax benefits The Minister for Housing and Local Government (Grant system. Can my hon. Friend say whether the funding of Shapps): My hon. Friend is absolutely right. It is important the administration of that system will also be localised, to allow communities to grow and allow local people to or remain central Government grant? have a stake in that growth, which is why we will ensure—both through the new homes bonus and through reformed business rates—that an ambitious local authority Robert Neill: As my hon. Friend knows, we are consulting can improve the lot of people who live in their area, on a raft of matters in relation to local government who, for the first time, will have a stake in the future. finance. We propose shortly to issue some technical papers. Perhaps when he has read those, I will be happy Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab): In response to the to meet him to discuss the issue. question from the shadow Secretary of State, my right hon. Friend the Member for Don Valley (Caroline Mr Andrew Love (Edmonton) (Lab/Co-op): To Flint), the Minister of State, Department for Communities address housing need, we need to build more than and Local Government, the right hon. Member for 200,000 properties, but according to the statistics that Tunbridge Wells (Greg Clark) said that we were facing a are coming out, it is unlikely that we will complete half crisis of growth. What does it say about the policies of that number in the coming year. The Government have the present Government that after the abolition of the already massively cut support for affordable housing regional development agencies and six months after the and made a complete botch of the planning system. budget for growth, a Minister has come to the House What will they do to address the coming housing crisis? and admitted that there is a crisis for growth? Grant Shapps: The hon. Gentleman has rightly defined Greg Clark: The crisis of growth that I was referring the problem of the legacy that this Government inherited, to was the one that was bequeathed to us by the previous with the lowest house building since the ’20s, but I am Labour Government. We noticed that the right hon. pleased to be able to report that, compared with the Member for Don Valley (Caroline Flint) has decided comparative period when Labour was in power, since not to say what she thinks of the reforms that we are the election, housing building starts are up 22%. I hope enacting. She has spent six weeks failing to give a view on he will join me in welcoming those statistics. that. A few weeks ago, the leader of her party said that “the promise of a better life for the next generation is under T8. [69951] Andrew Selous (South West Bedfordshire) threat…How are they going to buy their first home?” (Con): If the Prime Minister were to give the Secretary Does she support our simplified planning system or of State an additional role, I doubt he would ask for not? She did not answer. more money to do it, so does he agree that council chief 21 Oral Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Oral Answers 22 executives who double as returning officers and already local businesses affected by last month’s riots that under earn more than he does should not receive an the Riot (Damages) Act 1886 the deadline for making additional fee for overseeing elections? compensation claims will fall imminently—this week, I think? Mr Pickles: This is something very close to all our hearts in this Chamber. That, of course, is a matter for the Secretary of State for Justice, but to me this seems Mr Pickles: As the hon. Gentleman will know, we common sense. I have not come across many chief extended the normal period within which claims can be executives who do the count and organise the postal made. We have put out a simplified form—or, rather, we votes; that is often done by the deputy returning officer. have worked with local authorities to put out a simplified I know that a number of returning officers ensure that form. It is available on our website. I am not aware that the extra money is shared among staff. I think that that there are many businesses that have suffered an uninsured is the right course, but if chief executives are pocketing loss that have not come forward, but we do intend to that money, they should feel ashamed. use this money to get those businesses back into business, so that the community can continue to thrive. Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab): Local authority-run closed circuit television played a vital role in investigating (Chelsea and Fulham) (Con): May I many of the riots in our high streets only a month ago, congratulate the whole ministerial team on being bold yet the Protection of Freedoms Bill will make it more on planning reform? Whatever the rights and wrongs of difficult and bureaucratic for local authorities to install individual planning decisions, it cannot be right that the CCTV. Will the Secretary of State take the opportunity planning process itself costs 10 times more in central to reflect on that, and consult local authorities and London than in central Paris or central Brussels. I police before we go ahead with the measures in the Bill? therefore urge the Secretary of State to ensure that we pare down the costs of the planning process so that we Mr Pickles: Of course we will reflect on those matters, can contribute to the country’s economic growth. but it is important that these important intrusions into people’s private lives are regulated, and the Bill intends to regulate them, but if the hon. Gentleman has a Greg Clark: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Reform specific point, we will be happy to look into it. of the planning process is a crucial part of “The Plan for Growth”. We have inherited a situation from the Mr Speaker: James Gray. Not here. previous Government whereby the centralisation of the economy has led to depressed levels of growth. We are James Morris (Halesowen and Rowley Regis) (Con): turning that around through fundamental reforms, and The West Midlands fire service is proposing to merge I welcome my hon. Friend’s support. two fire stations in my constituency, which will significantly reduce the level of fire cover, reducing the number of Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab): Last fire engines from two to one. Will the Minister responsible year, Nottingham city council, which serves some of the commit to meet me and the chief of the West Midlands most deprived communities in the country, was subjected fire service to review those proposals and to ensure that to the biggest cuts in funding, while rural shire counties the same level of fire cover is retained in my constituency? were protected. Will the Secretary of State look again at this year’s settlement and get a fairer deal for my Robert Neill: Of course I am happy to discuss the constituents? matter with my hon. Friend, but I must point out that these are local decisions for the fire authority, which must at all times act in accordance with its integrated Mr Pickles: We had to put in place protection for risk management plan and its statutory obligations Nottingham because the Labour party withdrew the under fire services legislation. working neighbourhoods fund; we had to protect Nottingham from Labour cuts. My advice to Nottingham Mr Chuka Umunna (Streatham) (Lab): What is the is that if it wants to get favourable treatment from the Secretary of State doing in conjunction with other Government, it should publish its expenditure online: Departments to promote awareness among uninsured publish and be damned! 23 5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Libya 24

Libya threat and, in particular, control the towns of Bani Walid, Sirte, and Sabha in the south of the country. The 3.32 pm national transitional council has been working to negotiate The Prime Minister (Mr David Cameron): With a peaceful outcome, but its leaders have explicitly requested permission, Mr Speaker, I should like to make a statement that NATO continue its operations to protect civilians on Libya. until that is achieved. Over the weekend, RAF Tornados When we met here on that Friday in March, Gaddafi’s struck eight military command and control installations tanks bore down on Benghazi, his air force had already south-west of Waddan and nine weapons and ammunition begun strikes against his people, and his army had stores near Sirte. smashed through Zawiyah, with a grave loss of life. For as long as Gaddafi remains at large, the safety Gaddafi had vowed to hunt down his own people like and the security of the Libyan people remain under rats, using the full might of his armed forces, backed up threat. So let me be clear: we will not let up until the job by mercenaries. I did not think Britain should stand by is done. First, Britain and its NATO allies will continue as Gaddafi slaughtered his people. Nor could we allow to implement UN Security Council resolutions 1970 a failed pariah state festering on Europe’s southern and 1973 for as long as we are needed to protect civilian border, with the potential to threaten our own security. life. Those thinking that NATO will somehow pull out The Libyan opposition and the Arab League both or pull back must think again. We are ready to extend called for NATO to protect the civilian population, so, the NATO mandate for as long as is necessary. together with the US and France, we secured agreement Secondly, we will support the Libyan people in bringing for UN Security Council resolutions 1970 and 1973 Gaddafi to justice. This is a man whose crimes are and, with this clear legal mandate, this House voted by becoming ever more apparent every day and who is a majority of 544 in favour of military action. Today, wanted by the International Criminal Court. There the Libyan people have taken their country back. must be no bolthole; no pampered hiding place from I am grateful for the support that all parts of this justice. He must face the consequences of his actions, House have given over the last six months, and I am under international and Libyan law. sure the whole House will join me in paying tribute to Turning to security, the early signs have been encouraging. the incredible dedication and professionalism of our There has been some disorder, but it has been focused pilots, sailors, ground crew and everyone in our armed on symbols of the former regime. The national transitional forces who has been involved in this mission. council is moving to stand down fighters from outside But we should also pay a full tribute to the bravery Tripoli. The police are returning to the streets, and the and resilience of the Libyan people themselves. This has council leaders have been clear and consistent in cautioning been their revolution and none of it could have happened against disorder and, crucially, against reprisals. Britain without them. Ordinary Libyans from all walks of life and its international partners are helping, too, working came together and rose up against Gaddafi. From the closely with the national transitional council in securing villages of the Nafusa mountains to the tower blocks of chemical weapons sites and supporting mine clearance Misrata, the alleyways of Zawiyah and the streets of in Misrata, Benghazi and other affected areas. Benghazi, the Libyan people fought with incredible On the humanitarian situation, Britain has played a courage. Many paid with their lives. Others have been leading role from the outset. The priorities today are seriously injured, and the struggle is not over. They still health, water, food and fuel. On health, our humanitarian face forces loyal to a dictator who last week threatened partners report that hospitals and clinics in Tripoli are to turn Libya “into a hell”. now functioning well, and staff are returning to work. And the long work of building a new Libya is just Britain is providing additional support through the beginning, but what is clear is that the future of Libya International Committee of the Red Cross, including belongs to its people. The task of the international surgical teams and medicines to treat up to 5,000 war- community now is to support them as they build that wounded patients. future. That means helping to finish the job, ensuring security, addressing the immediate humanitarian needs On water, substantial numbers of people in Tripoli and supporting the longer-term process of reconstruction are still without running water. However, UNICEF is and political transition to democracy. Let me address procuring 11 million litres of bottled water, and the each in turn. Libyan authorities are working to repair the water systems. The NTC reports that 100 wells are back First, on finishing the job, Britain has been at the online, representing 20% of capacity. forefront of the military operation to protect the Libyan people. Our aircraft have made over 2,400 sorties across On fuel, there remain significant shortages but the Libya, carrying out one fifth of all NATO airstrikes, situation is improving, and the World Food Programme against some 900 targets in Gaddafi’s war machine. Our shipment is supporting the national transitional council warships have supported this effort, helping to enforce with the procurement of 250,000 litres of fuel. the UN arms embargo and bringing aid to those in Let me turn to reconstruction. Libya is a country of need. At its peak, some 2,300 British servicemen and 6.5 million people. It is one of the richest in Africa. Its women were deployed on Operation Ellamy, with 36 aircraft proven oil reserves are the ninth largest in the world. including 16 Tornados, six Typhoons, five attack helicopters, Libya is fully capable of paying for its own reconstruction. tankers and specialist surveillance aircraft and helicopters. Of course there is a role for foreign advice, help and These were supported over the course of the operation support, but I do not think we want to see an army of by eight warships and a hunter-killer submarine. foreign consultants driving around in 4x4s, giving the But the job is not over. As we stand, the free Libya impression that this is something being done to the forces have liberated Tripoli and control Libya’s key Libyans, rather than something that is being done by population centres, but pro-Gaddafi forces still pose a them. 25 Libya5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Libya 26

What the Libyans need above all is their frozen assets accusations of malpractice so as to enable our security back. A week ago, Britain got Security Council agreement services to get on with the vital work that they do. to release £1 billion-worth of dinars back to the Central Because they cannot speak for themselves, let me put on Bank of Libya, and RAF planes have already flown in the record, once again, our enormous gratitude for all hundreds of millions of dinars of these banknotes. At they do to keep our country safe. the summit in Paris last Thursday, the international The achievement of the Libyan people gives hope to community committed to unfreezing $15 billion of Libyan those across the wider region who want a job, a voice assets, and for their part—vitally—we expect the new and a stake in how their country is run. On Syria, Libyan authorities to meet their pledge of ensuring Britain will continue to lead the argument for a UN transparent and accountable financial systems. resolution to build on the EU’s oil embargo, which is Next, on political transition, some people warned, as now in place. The message to President Assad must be Gaddafi himself did, that the Libyan people could not clear: he has lost all legitimacy and can no longer claim be trusted with freedom—that without Gaddafi there to lead Syria, the violence must end and he should step would be chaos. What is emerging now, despite years of aside for the good of his country. repression, and the trauma of recent months, is impressive It is the Libyan people who have liberated their and encouraging. In a far-reaching road map and country; there was no foreign occupying army. This has constitutional declaration, the new authorities have set been a Libyan-led process, assisted by the international out a clear vision and a process for a new democratic community.Many cynics proclaimed stalemate and asserted Libya. This is not being imposed from above; it is being that Gaddafi would never be defeated—the Libyan shaped by the Libyan people. At the Paris summit, people proved them wrong. It was a unique set of chairman Abdul-Jalil spoke of his determination to circumstances and not something that we can or would build a society of tolerance and forgiveness, with respect wish to repeat all over the world, but I have never for the rule of law. A national conference will bring accepted the argument that because you can’t do everything, together all the tribes—civil society; men and women, you shouldn’t do anything. Removing Gaddafi from from east and west—united to shape this political transition. power was a major achievement. Although the work is They are planning for a new constitution and elections not yet done, the Libyan people can be proud of what within 20 months. they have achieved and we can be proud of what we Britain is also in discussions in New York about a have done to help them. I commend this statement to new UN Security Council resolution to reflect the new the House. situation. The new Libyan authorities must now be able to represent their country at the United Nations, as they Edward Miliband (Doncaster North) (Lab): May I did last week at the Arab League. I also look forward to start by thanking the Prime Minister for his statement? building our bilateral relationship with the new Libyan Let me join him in paying tribute to the courage of the authority. We have close relations with the NTC through Libyan people, because this was their uprising. They our mission in Benghazi, and today the UK’s special knew the price that might be paid if they rose up against representative is going to Tripoli to re-establish our full the regime to claim a better future and yet they found diplomatic presence in that city. the courage to do so and to win through. We on the Our relationship with the new Libya must, of course, Opposition Benches salute their bravery and sacrifice, deal with a series of problems from the past. On Megrahi, but change in Libya would not have come about without this is obviously a matter for the Scottish Executive. I action from the international community. Let me therefore have made my position clear: I believe that he should commend the role played by the Prime Minister and the never have been sent back to Libya in the first place. On British Government in making it happen. The initiative WPC Yvonne Fletcher, I want to see justice for her of pressing for UN resolutions 1970 and 1973 made the family. There is an ongoing police investigation, and the action to protect civilians possible. It was a risk and it House will wish to know that Prime Minister Jabril has was the right thing to do. For our part, we supported it assured me of the new Libyan authority’s intention to at the time, we have remained steadfast in our support co-operate fully. and we support it now. Finally, significant accusations have been reported If we had not acted, we would have spent recent today that under the last Government relations between months not talking about the progress of our action in the British and Libyan security services became too Libya but wringing our hands over slaughter in Benghazi, close, particularly in 2003. It was because of accusations as we did after Bosnia. This time, however, the international of potential complicity by the British security services community did not stand by—it acted through and in the mistreatment of detainees overseas, including with the authority of the United Nations. Once again, rendition, that I took steps in July last year to try to sort as the Prime Minister said, it was to our brave British this whole problem out. As the House will remember, servicemen and women that we turned and as always, we acted to bring to an end the large number of court they have risen to the challenge. They represent the best cases being brought against the Government by former of our country and again we owe them a debt of inmates of Guantanamo; we have issued new guidance gratitude. to security and intelligence services personnel on how I want to ask a number of questions about the to deal with detainees held by other countries; and we security situation, economic stabilisation, the political have asked retired judge Sir Peter Gibson to examine settlement now required and some of the wider lessons, issues around the detention and treatment of terrorist but let me first say that I agree with the Prime Minister suspects overseas. This inquiry has already said that it that the Gibson inquiry must get to the bottom of will look at these latest accusations very carefully. My the allegations we have seen about the involvement of concern throughout has been not only to remove any the security services in relation to Libya. No part of the stain on Britain’s reputation, but to deal with these British state should ever be complicit in torture. 27 Libya5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Libya 28

[Edward Miliband] strategic defence and security review and has meant a call on some resources that were due to become obsolete. Let me turn first to the security situation. The Prime May I ask the Prime Minister whether he sees the case Minister is right to say that there should be no artificial that I see for there to be gain in formally looking afresh deadlines for the end of NATO action. We are in Libya at the SDSR in the light of events in Libya and the Arab to enforce a Security Council resolution and we should spring? be engaged in action for no more and no less than the For the international community as a whole, the time it takes to ensure that the UN mandate for the lesson is of the effectiveness it can have when it comes protection of civilians is fulfilled. Given the symbolic together through the UN and speaks with one voice. No and substantive importance of the national transitional two situations are the same, as the Prime Minister has council’s taking up its place in government in Tripoli, said. Of course, the situation in Syria is different for a will the Prime Minister give us a sense from the Paris number of reasons, not least practical issues, in relation conference about when we might expect that to happen, to the idea of military intervention and, indeed, the lack as that will speak to the security situation in Tripoli? of support for it. We support the use of all non-military We know from past conflicts that security matters but means at our disposal in relation to Syria. I have heard that essential to a successful transition is economic and the Prime Minister’s remarks about President Assad social reconstruction, and we all agree that that must be and I share his view. He talked about the need for a new Libyan-owned. I welcome the extra assistance that the UN resolution, but will he tell us how he assesses the Government have announced to help provide medicine chances of getting that resolution and what further and food and to reunite families who have been affected steps he believes can be taken against the Assad regime by the fighting. The Prime Minister will agree that the in the absence of a resolution? role of the UN will be very important in co-ordinating Let me end on this thought: the Arab spring has seen that help, so will he say what discussions he has had the overthrow of authoritarian regimes in Tunisia, Egypt with UN special envoy al-Khatib and how prepared he and Libya. It is right that Britain has been on the side of believes the UN is to provide the necessary help to the those who are fighting to enjoy the basic social, economic Libyan people? Will he also share with the House his and political rights that we take for granted. Let me end thoughts on how the new UN resolution he talked by agreeing with the Prime Minister that we should take about, which will provide recognition for a new pride in the role we have played in protecting the Libyan Government, will also provide a mandate for a longer-term people as they claim a better future. We should now UN mission to support the Libyan Government? help them as they enter the next phase—moving from The Prime Minister is right that the oil wealth of popular revolt to stable, democratic government. Libya offers huge potential for its people. Given that the legitimacy of the popular uprising was based around The Prime Minister: First, may I thank the right hon. the fact that the Libyans themselves were clearly in the Gentleman for his kind remarks in response to my lead, that also needs to be true of the oil resources. statement? He is right to pose the alternative and ask Does he agree that we should learn the lessons of the what would have happened had we stood back and period following past conflicts and ensure that the role done nothing—what we would have been discussing of private companies working in Libya is to operate today? Of course, he is also right to praise our brave transparently and in a way that clearly benefits the service personnel. I note what he said about backing the Libyan people? Gibson inquiry and the important work that it needs to On the politics, I join the Prime Minister in welcoming do in looking at all the accusations of complicity. the NTC’s commitment to establishing a new constitution On the three issues of security, stabilisation and and holding elections within 18 months. On the former politics let me try to answer the right hon. Gentleman’s members of the regime, we agree that we should provide questions. First, on security, he is right that there should full support to the Libyan people and their new Government be no artificial deadline for NATO. We must continue in bringing Colonel Gaddafi and the leadership to until the job is done. On the NTC’s move from Benghazi justice either through the ICC or the Libyan courts, but to Tripoli, that is already under way. Parts of the NTC we have also learned from past conflicts the need for a have moved and it is very important that it should move broad based and inclusive political process of reconciliation as a whole. We should not try to second-guess everything —indeed, the Prime Minister talked about that in his it does. I have been very struck through this process by statement—as well as for the vital work of maintaining the fact that the NTC often gets criticised. Calls are Government services. Will the Prime Minister share made for it to do this and that, and in the end it always with the House his understanding of how the NTC will seems to rise to the challenge. I think it has been continue to use officials from the lower level of government effective and we should not underestimate the people to keep basic services running? working in it. We also know that democracy takes root not just On stabilisation, the right hon. Gentleman mentioned through the formal process of the ballot box but through the UN’s role. It is important to differentiate between a strong, vibrant civil society. Will the Prime Minister the role of Mr al-Khatib, who was trying to look at tell us what specific plans there are for direct relationships ways of finding a peace process before this conflict between Libya and organisations such as the BBC resulted in the fall of Tripoli, and the role of Ian World Service, the Westminster Foundation for Democracy Martin, who is specifically drawing up the plans for a and the British Council, which can play an important UN mission to Libya. I think those plans are well under role in helping to build up civil society? way and it is very important that we focus on the things Let me finally ask about the lessons of this conflict that the Libyans want rather than on the things we for Britain and for the international community. The think they might want. It was quite interesting, in Paris, Arab spring was clearly not envisaged at the time of the to hear the specific things they cared about most. Clearly, 29 Libya5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Libya 30 one role that the UN can play is to make sure that the and that it will be important for Britain to continue to elections, when they come, are properly observed and offer what help it can in a spirit of general co-operation are free and fair. The point that the right hon. Gentleman and humility? makes about private companies is a good one and we should learn all the lessons from past conflicts as he The Prime Minister: That is absolutely right. It is very says. important that when people are looking at the humanitarian In terms of the process of reconciliation and maintaining plan, the reconstruction plan and the plan for political Government services, one thing that the NTC has been progress in Libya, we recognise that this is something trying to do—again, quite effectively, I think; we have that the Libyans are doing themselves. We are there to been advising and helping where we can—is make sure help and to assist, but it is their plan, not our plan. that there is no de-Ba’athification process and that Humility on this occasion is right. relatively junior officials in departments are encouraged to go back to work. These are very early days and there Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab): I endorse the are going to be huge problems at the end of a conflict remarks of my right hon. Friend the Member for Doncaster like this, but the signs are that things such as rubbish North (Edward Miliband) in praising the leadership that collection, hospital services and getting the police back the Prime Minister, the Foreign Secretary and other on the streets seem to be working. Ministers have shown during the whole of this period. There is no doubt that that was decisive in securing The right hon. Gentleman asked about longer-term international co-operation and in following it through. relationships with the British Council and others. Clearly, once the security situation is in a better state, those On the allegations that have been made overnight, as relationships can be built from a very strong basis. Foreign Secretary at the time, may I say two things? First, as the Prime Minister knows, it was the consistent On the strategic defence review, I would argue, policy of the previous Government, as it is of his, to be having followed this very closely through the National wholly opposed to any complicity in torture, ill treatment Security Council on Libya, which met sometimes daily or unlawful rendition. Secondly, given the serious nature through this conflict, that the case for what we are of the allegations, it is entirely right that they should be doing in the review has been proved. It has been proved examined in every detail by the inquiry under Sir Peter that it was the right decision to keep the Tornado Gibson. aircraft with the Storm Shadow capability, which performed magnificently over the skies of Libya. Typhoon has in The Prime Minister: I thank the right hon. Gentleman many ways come of age. One of the things that became for what he says about me, the Foreign Secretary and clear in the conflict was the need for greater ISTAR—greater others. On the issue that he raises, it is right that eyes in the sky, greater technical capabilities—and that Sir Peter Gibson can look at the whole area. It is is provided for in the strategic defence review. Of course, important that nobody rushes to judgment. We have to after any such conflict and an intense period of military, remember that in 2003, two years after 9/11, there was a Government and humanitarian activity, it is right to Libyan terrorist group that was allied to al-Qaeda. At learn the lessons. Sir Peter Ricketts, my national security all times our security services and intelligence services adviser, will be leading a lessons-learned exercise on are trying to work for the good of the country to keep how the Whitehall machine operated and what lessons us safe, so it is important to remember the circumstances we can learn. That should include the operation of the at the time. Nobody should rush to judgment, but it is oil cell, which I think did a very good job of trying to the right hon. Gentleman’s view, my view and the view help deny oil to the regime and to make sure that the of the entire House that Britain should never be complicit rebels, who were not getting oil products, got them. in torture or in extraordinary rendition, and it is very The right hon. Gentleman mentioned the UN resolution important that we make sure that that is the case. on Syria. We will continue to work for a strong resolution. It has obviously been difficult to get agreement to date. Sir Menzies Campbell (North East Fife) (LD): My The EU oil embargo is an important step forward and right hon. Friend has been circumspect in his references has a real effect. Above all, I want to thank the right to the documents which have recently emerged, and hon. Gentleman for what he said. I agree with him that with good reason, but does he agree that there is one we can take pride in what British forces and British lesson that can be learned at this stage—that particularly officials have done on this occasion. when dealing with unsavoury regimes in the shadowy world of intelligence, it is necessary to maintain both Several hon. Members rose— fastidiousness and distance so as to avoid accusations of impropriety or illegality?

Mr Speaker: Order. Understandably, there is wide The Prime Minister: My right hon. and learned Friend interest in the Prime Minister’s statement. If I am to is entirely right. As I put it in my statement, the accusation accommodate that interest, I require brevity. In pursuit is that after Libya came in from the cold and gave up the of a helping hand, I look to an old hand—Mr Nicholas weapons of mass destruction, the relationship almost Soames. became too close at times. There was a degree of credulity. I think that is the accusation. It is important to put on Nicholas Soames (Mid Sussex) (Con): I join in the record our thanks to the security services for what they praise from the Prime Minister for the magnificent do. What I have tried to do and what the Government performance of the British armed forces and for the have tried to do is put in place a new set of arrangements— courage and resolution of the Libyan people. Does my proper guidance to intelligence and security services right hon. Friend agree that matters are inevitably about personnel to clear out these Guantanamo Bay cases to become a little messy in Libya in the months ahead, that were going to drag through our courts and bring 31 Libya5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Libya 32

[The Prime Minister] Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab): Will the inquiry conducted by Sir Peter Gibson be held entirely our security services and our country down, to deal in public? Will it have access to all the documents that with them properly, and then to have an inquiry, so that have been discovered in Libya which, apparently, are we get to the bottom of what happened and if there was now under the control of the national transitional any malpractice, we deal with it. It is important that we council? Will it look at the question of British military clear up the issue once and for all, and I believe the involvement with Libya up until March and what lessons steps that we have taken will do that. can be learned from that?

Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab): I, too, commend the The Prime Minister: I am grateful for the hon. Prime Minister on the role that he has played this year, Gentleman’s question. On Sir Peter Gibson’s inquiry, but I urge him to use the same dedication when it comes some of it will be held in public and some of it by to Syria, because many of us—all of us, I suspect—are necessity—because of the very sensitive nature of what scandalised by what we have seen throughout these he will be looking at—will be held in private. summer months. He is visiting Moscow, as I understand it, next week. I hope that he will make it absolutely On the documentation, Sir Peter will have access to clear to the Russian Government—both sides of the all the paperwork he wants to see. Clearly, what has Government; the President and the Prime Minister—that come out of Libya in recent days is relevant to him, and thus far their protection of the Syrian Government has I think he has already announced that he is looking been wholly abhorrent to those of us who hate the forward to seeing that information. human rights abuses in such countries. On Britain’s relationship with Libya, as I have said, it is entirely understandable that it was the previous The Prime Minister: I certainly join the hon. Gentleman Government’s wish to have with Libya a new relationship in loathing the human rights abuses that are taking after getting rid of weapons of mass destruction. In place in Syria. What we have seen happening is simply some instances, it was too credulous—I have mentioned appalling—the loss of life, the damage and terror that particularly Megrahi—and, obviously, we need to think the President has been inflicting on his own people. carefully about our security, our military involvement On Russia, one of the encouraging things is that the and our sales to all regimes. That is why at the start of Russians came to the Paris conference, were one of the the Arab spring we reviewed our practices, and we 63 countries represented there and supported the statement should keep them under review. that came out of it about NATO continuing its work and making sure that we complete the job in Libya— Patrick Mercer (Newark) (Con): How concerned is [Interruption.] The hon. Gentleman is right then to say the Prime Minister about reports of Islamist influence from a sedentary position, “What about Syria?” I think in the new Libyan Government? that the whole international community can learn the lesson of some success in Libya and apply that elsewhere The Prime Minister: One should treat all these reports in terms of the unity that we need to see in the UN with concern, and we should obviously always look Security Council to put pressure on Syria. carefully at who we are dealing with, but one of the long-term answers to Islamic extremism is the successful Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con): As someone development of democracy in the Arab world. who had reservations about the principle of intervention, may I congratulate the Prime Minister on a successful This is a three-part play: part one is getting rid of bin outcome in Libya? It was largely achieved by two aspects: Laden; part two is greater democracy throughout the first, it was legal; and secondly, it had the support of the middle east; and part three is a solution to the Arab-Israeli Libyan people. Further to the previous question, however, conflict. To think that supporting such dictators helped will my right hon. Friend now use it as an illustration to us to deal with Islamic extremism is to be profoundly persuade permanent members of the Security Council, wrong. We find that many of the Islamic extremists such as Russia and China, that a well conducted intervention whom we are fighting or dealing with in Pakistan or, can be successfully used to restrain autocrats in countries even, in Afghanistan come out of countries such as such as Syria? Libya and Syria, and we should ask, “Why?”

The Prime Minister: I am grateful to my hon. Friend Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab): for what he says. Everyone should have misgivings Large numbers of Libyans have fled their country in the about such operations, and one should never have the past few months. What discussions have there been with naive belief that they are easy or that everything is countries such as Italy and Malta to enable them to going to go to plan. That very rarely happens, and we return? should always be hard-headed and careful about such things. We should also respect the fact that this is not The Prime Minister: The Italians and Maltese are done—this is not completed yet. extremely keen that people should return and there is Also, I think that we should be very cautious about now every reason that they can. I have been impressed trying to draw up a new doctrine, because it seems to me by the members of the Libyan diaspora in London who that as soon as a new doctrine is established, a case have been in and out of Libya even while the conflict comes up that flies completely in its face, but I do hope has been going on. The pressure can be great, particularly that other members of the Security Council will see that on small countries such as Malta. As the hon. Lady there has been success in removing a dictator, and in knows, we have a relationship with Malta through giving that country a chance of peaceful and democratic which we will use our embassies elsewhere in the world progress, which will be good for the world. to help it with this issue. 33 Libya5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Libya 34

Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con): As well as a functioning modern democratic society, have Gaddafi’s the Gibson inquiry, does the Prime Minister see a role placemen in position. Is Britain, perhaps with the European for the Intelligence and Security Committee in investigating Union, prepared to put real effort into supporting the the allegation, which if true would be shameful and development of those civil structures? shocking, that Britain had a part in handing suspects over to the Gaddafi regime, even in the context of 2003? The Prime Minister: We will certainly make available our advice on those issues if it is wanted. In Paris, The Prime Minister: It is absolutely a matter for the Chairman Jalil and Prime Minister Jibril talked specifically Intelligence and Security Committee what it examines, about the importance of police training and of ensuring but I am sure that my right hon. and learned Friend the that their police are properly independent. It was Member for Kensington (Sir ) will encouraging to hear them say that. Of course, having a want to look closely at those allegations. As I say, I do strong, independent justice system is part of any free not think that any of us should rush to judgment. We and democratic society, so we stand by to help in any have to remember the situation that the world and this way that we can. country were in post 9/11, when there was a real concern about people who wanted to damage our country. The Libyan Islamic Fighting Group was allied with al-Qaeda. Jo Swinson (East Dunbartonshire) (LD): I welcome It is not any more and has separated itself from that the progress of the Libyan people and the success of the organisation. Let us allow the inquiries to take their United Nations’ principle of the responsibility to protect. course and not rush to judgment. The catalyst of the uprising was the 15 February protest by the widows, mothers and sisters of the victims of the Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP): May I join Abu Selim massacre. Women played a crucial role in the in the tributes to the courage of our servicemen and revolution and are a vital resource for the tough task women in their action over Libya, to the Libyan people, ahead of rebuilding Libya, so what can our Government and to the political leadership of the Prime Minister do to encourage the involvement of women at all levels and his colleagues during this time? The Prime Minister of the decision-making processes in the NTC and the rightly talked about the issue of legacy, and he referred national conference, in line with not only United Nations to Megrahi and WPC Yvonne Fletcher. He said that Security Council resolution 1325 but the wishes of Libya must deal with the series of problems from the Libyan civil society organisations such as Women for past. Among those will be the issue of compensation Libya? and justice for the many hundreds of victims of Libyan- sponsored IRA terrorism. Can I seek an assurance from The Prime Minister: The hon. Lady makes an important the Prime Minister that he continues to back the case point, and I think one of the best ways to do that is to for justice, and that he will do what he can to secure work with the non-governmental organisations that compensation from the new regime? have particular expertise in that area. I repeat that this is not the same as Iraq, where basically an intervention The Prime Minister: I certainly will do that and it is a knocked over a Government, and there was then a vital issue. There is no doubt that the Libyan provision de-Ba’athification process and we had to try to put of Semtex to the IRA was immensely damaging over back in place what had gone. Here, we are trying to many years, and it possibly still is today. We need to be work with the Libyans, who are putting things in place clear that this will be an important bilateral issue between themselves. I absolutely agree that a much stronger Britain and the new Libyan authorities. Clearly we have society will emerge if there is a proper and appropriate to let this Government get their feet under the desk, but role for women, which tragically there is not in so many this is very high up my list of items. societies. I think going through non-governmental organisations is probably the right answer. Mr (Hitchin and Harpenden) (Con): After the liberation of Kuwait, in which Britain also played a significant part, the financial costs of our Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab): May I join others in contribution were fully reimbursed, largely by Kuwait commending the Prime Minister’s role in these issues? itself. Does my right hon. Friend intend to seek a He will know that there are 8,000 Libyan students similar contribution from the Libyan authorities once studying in the United Kingdom at the moment, 2,000 of oil begins to flow? whom are state-sponsored. The funds for those students are being held by the British Arab Commercial Bank, The Prime Minister: That is not a consideration that which cannot release them without the approval of the we have gone into so far. Clearly there have been costs NTC. Will he use his good offices to ensure that this to the UK from this operation, which are in the region matter is resolved so that the students can complete of £120 million, excluding munitions. Obviously, that their studies and return to rebuild their country? has been funded from outside the defence budget through the reserve, so it will not impact on other defence The Prime Minister: I thank the right hon. Gentleman spending. My right hon. Friend makes an important for what he says and for his kind comments. My point that we can bear in mind. understanding is that the money is now being released, but if there are any problems, we will certainly try to Tony Lloyd (Manchester Central) (Lab): The Prime help secure it. I think there will be a welter of problems Minister rightly said that we would urge that there be in dealing with unfrozen assets of people who have got no de-Ba’athification process in Libya. However, the stuck in a different country and all the rest of it, and we reality is that the institutions across Libya are corrupted will have to work through each of those problems in and weak. In particular, the courts, which are central to turn. 35 Libya5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Libya 36

Mr Bernard Jenkin (Harwich and North Essex) (Con): community to micro-manage and over-intervene? We May I commend my right hon. Friend for acting in a should remember that in this kind of intervention, less way that vindicates his policy of Britain acting as an is more. effective global power? May I also commend him for not rushing to a new doctrine or going back to an old The Prime Minister: I know that my hon. Friend one such as liberal interventionism? Does the situation speaks with considerable knowledge, not least because not demonstrate the importance of maintaining armed rather against my will, he spent two days last week in forces with global reach, so that we can influence global Tripoli. He has seen for himself that the Libyans are events and project our interests? managing the transition quite effectively, but what he says about trying to make sure that we understand our The Prime Minister: I am very grateful to my hon. role as backing a Libyan plan rather than substituting Friend for his comments. What I would say about our judgment for theirs, is the right way ahead. doctrine is that if you overdo your belief in a particular doctrine, you will find that the next problem that confronts Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green): Has the you will fall completely outside it and you will have to Prime Minister reviewed Cabinet Office papers to ascertain spend a lot of time inventing a new doctrine to deal whether Tony Blair personally authorised the co-operation with it. I am a practical—[Interruption.] Members say with the Libyan intelligence services that led to Abu that I am a Conservative, and that is right. I am a Munthir’s detention and removal to Tripoli in 2003? practical, liberal Conservative—that is what I believe, Will he revise the terms of reference of the Gibson and I think this was a practical, liberal, Conservative review, so that the nine human rights agencies that intervention. [HON.MEMBERS: “A new doctrine.”] It is a currently do not feel that they can co-operate with it way of thinking. because it is not up to the standards of international On what my hon. Friend says about armed forces human rights can co-operate, so that the review will be being able to project our reach and power, I absolutely open and transparent, and so that we can get to the agree with him, and we cannot maintain that reach and bottom of those questions? power by not having a defence review and by sticking with massed battle tanks in Europe. What we need to do The Prime Minister: First, let me put the hon. Lady is modernise our armed forces and make sure that we right on one thing: there is a rule that Ministers cannot, have the reach for the challenges of the future. I repeat willy-nilly, see the papers provided to a previous what I said: far from disproving the strategic defence Government, not least because Governments would review, I think Libya proved the case for the sort of probably spend their entire time doing that rather than changes that we are making. governing the country, which is what they are supposed to do. That is why there is an inquiry, which is being carried out by an independent judge. We should allow Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab): No one Sir Peter Gibson to get to the bottom of what happened will be sorry to see the end of Gaddafi’s criminal in that case, and indeed to the bottom of any decisions regime, which was deeply involved in international terrorism, that Ministers of that time made, for which they will but is there not some hypocrisy in all this? Is it not a fact have to answer. I believe that that is the right approach, that up to this year, Britain was selling the Gaddafi and it is the one that we will follow. regime sniper rifles and crowd control equipment? Now we learn that there was a close collaboration between Jane Ellison (Battersea) (Con): I very much welcome some western countries—not only Britain—and the the Prime Minister’s statement. Many of our constituents Gaddafi regime, in which terror suspects were actually have probably said over the last few months something sent to Gaddafi’s torture chamber. along the lines of, “We don’t want another Iraq,” and the post-conflict stage is obviously on people’s minds. The Prime Minister: Far be it from me to join the Will the Prime Minister give a little more detail on how hon. Gentleman in attacking the last Government. To the lessons of immediately post-conflict Iraq are being be fair, I think it was right to have a new relationship applied in this situation? with Libya when we could persuade it to get rid of its weapons of mass destruction, discontinue its nuclear The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend is absolutely programme and try to take a different path. I have my right that a lot of people have said, “We don’t want criticisms of the last Government, as I think they were another Iraq,” but we should also listen to those people then too gullible and went too far in that direction. who said, “We don’t want another Bosnia.”The prevention Specifically, when we had the O’Donnell report into of a massacre was very important in these circumstances. Megrahi it found that the last Government were trying to facilitate his release, but I do not criticise the general On the difference between Libya and Iraq, I would intent of wanting a new relationship. What really changed say this: because the Libya operation has not involved was the treatment by Gaddafi of his own people. That an occupying force or an invading army, the Libyan was the moment for the world to act, and I am proud of people rightly feel that they have done this largely by the fact that the world did so. themselves. Yes, they have had NATO assistance, for which they are grateful, but just as they own the end of Gadaffi, so they are owning the transition to democracy Rory Stewart (Penrith and The Border) (Con): The and all the problems of disorder and crime that there most impressive aspect of this intervention is the Libyan will be in the interim. However, from what I can see, pride in what Libyans see as a Libyan event. Will the they are dealing with those problems well, and we Prime Minister reassure the House that he will do all he should be with them, but helping rather than telling can to restrain the irresistible desire of the international them what to do. 37 Libya5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Libya 38

Andrew Miller (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab): area where we can learn the lessons of the past—I do May I follow the point on migration raised by my hon. not think that Libyans want huge numbers of people Friend the Member for Birmingham, Edgbaston driving around in 4x4s telling them what to do. Arab (Ms Stuart)? One thing that became clear during the assistance can play a huge role in helping Libyans to get previous regime was that many of the people who have back on their feet. However, they seem very keen to do a ended up in Lampedusa and Malta originated not in lot of this on their own. Libya, but from other countries, sponsored by an illegal criminal network in which Gadaffi no doubt had a role. Hugh Bayley (York Central) (Lab): The Prime Minister That means that such places have huge numbers of cases is absolutely right to stress that the political future of that are difficult to manage. How will the Prime Minister Libya needs to be determined by the Libyan people, not manage that situation, and will he assure the House that by outsiders. Can he cast any light on the statements he will open a dialogue with the NTC to ensure that coming from the African Union about its concerns that those criminal routes are closed down straight away? the transitional arrangements are not fully inclusive? What discussions is he or the Foreign Secretary having The Prime Minister: I certainly will do that. First, it is with key African leaders to ensure that any future UN important to get this into perspective: we should bear it resolution gets African buy-in? in mind that we still get more asylum claims from the countries of northern Europe than we get from the The Prime Minister: I was very encouraged that at the countries of southern Europe. Secondly, we have a Paris meeting there were a number of African leaders relationship with Malta. Clearly, it cannot afford to strongly supportive of the NTC and democratic transition have embassies all over the world, and we use our in Libya. Frankly, the African Union has not always embassies in countries such as Niger, Mali and elsewhere been as clear as I would have liked about the importance to try to help the Maltese to return people to their of democracy, freedom, human rights and progress in country of origin. As the hon. Gentleman says, many Libya. I hope now that all the countries of the African people coming through Libya are not from Libya. Union will get behind the new Libyan authorities and give them the support and help that they need. Mark Pritchard (The Wrekin) (Con): For the new constitution of Libya to be legitimate, and indeed Andrew Rosindell (Romford) (Con): I think that the sustainable, is it not the case that freedom of speech and whole House will be celebrating the end of the monstrous religion should be included? In particular, should it not Gaddafi regime. Will the Prime Minister assure us that give protection to the Coptic Orthodox Church, the he will continue to put pressure on the new Libyan Roman , the Serbian Orthodox Church, Government to ensure that the killers of PC Yvonne the Russian Orthodox Church and the Greek Orthodox Fletcher are brought to justice? Church? The Prime Minister: Like my hon. Friend, I feel that The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend makes a good this is an extremely important issue for the bilateral point, and we have seen, particularly in Egypt, the relationship between Britain and Libya. At the Paris importance of protecting Coptic Christians and others. conference, I spoke to Prime Minister Jibril about this I am heartened by what Chairman Jalil has said about issue and told him how important it was to people in respect for human rights and tolerance, and I am sure our country. It was an appalling act and a reminder of that he will want to follow those things through. what the Gaddafi regime was capable of. We should put it alongside the provision of Semtex to the IRA that Mr Frank Roy (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab): Has took hundreds of lives and the appalling act of blowing an estimation been made of when British oil workers up an airliner over the skies of Scotland. This regime will be allowed to return to their vital jobs in Libya? was capable of appalling things and now there is a chance to find justice for these people. We should The Prime Minister: I do not have an estimation, but pursue that very strongly. it is in Libya’s interests that the production of oil gets back to normal as fast as possible. Some people say, Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op): I welcome though, that it could take up to three years to get back the Prime Minister’s statement and the end—hopefully—of to full capacity. The encouraging thing is that a lot of Gaddafi, but given that we are in the aftermath of what the refineries and other oil installations, such as the in many respects was a civil war, how comfortable is he ones in Ras Lanuf, Brega, Zawiyah and elsewhere, have with a 20-month time frame for the delivery of a new not been badly damaged, so there is no reason this constitution and elections? What measures will be put should not happen as rapidly as possible. in place to protect human and political rights, including on freedom of movement and international observers? David Rutley (Macclesfield) (Con): Like other Members, I would like to congratulate the Prime Minister on the The Prime Minister: I believe that the timetable is leadership he has shown in supporting the will of the realistic. The key issue is whether we have faith in the Libyan people over the past few months. Will he tell NTC. I have found, throughout my dealings with Prime the House what role is envisaged for the Arab League Minister Jibril and Chairman Jalil, both of whom I and other Arab nations in the post-conflict reconstruction have met on a number of occasions, that they want this in Libya in the months ahead? to be a national process, representing the whole country and bringing the country together, that they want it to The Prime Minister: I am grateful for my hon. Friend’s be transitional—this is a move towards democracy, not comments. I think that there will be a big role for the a takeover—and that they see Libya in the future not in Arab League. As I said in my statement—this is one an Islamist or tribal fashion, but as a democracy. Clearly, 39 Libya5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Libya 40

[The Prime Minister] other international leaders have put on inclusion and consensus in building constitutions and states, and the it will have Islamic elements—it is a Muslim country—but primacy of democratic elections also be reflected in that is the path that its people want to take and one that their response to the current efforts of the Palestinian we can encourage them down. Authority in respect of statehood, given that this month is the target date when statehood was to be recognised Martin Horwood (Cheltenham) (LD): I strongly welcome at the UN? the Prime Minister’s statement, especially in relation to the Gibson inquiry, which could be critical to our future The Prime Minister: As I said earlier, I see all these good relations with the new Libya. Will it be able to issues as being linked. Just as we want to see greater consider the role and case of the old regime’s intelligence democracy, peace and progress in middle eastern countries chief, Musa Kusa? across the board, so we want to see the Palestinians have the dignity of their own state. However, we believe The Prime Minister: Musa Kusa is helping the police in the two-state solution, so it must be a Palestine with their inquiries into, for instance, the Yvonne Fletcher alongside a secure Israel. When it comes to the whole case, and they will go on having conversations with him. issue of recognition, the test for us is: are we doing That will go ahead. Sir Peter Gibson’s inquiry can go something that will help to push forward the peace wherever the evidence leads, and he can call for papers process? That is the most important thing. In the end, that he wants to see. The key things that he is looking at we cannot compel Israel and Palestine to reach peace are the accusations of complicity in torture, rendition, between themselves; they have to want to do it. malpractice or maltreatment. Mr Andrew Tyrie (Chichester) (Con): As the Prime Minister knows, I have called for several years for an Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP): inquiry into rendition, but I have to say that Sir Peter We in the Scottish National party join the Prime Minister Gibson’s preparatory work is already a source of concern. in paying tribute to the brave men and women in our Is the Prime Minister aware that he has already decided armed forces who have been involved in these operations. not to follow the same certification process that Lord We also welcome the extension of Sir Peter Gibson’s Butler used in his inquiry to ensure that he got the right inquiry, but does the Prime Minister believe that it will papers, that he has decided against appointing an be enough to get to the bottom of these allegations of independent investigator and that, contrary to the spirit such truly awful and reprehensible acts? Will he, for of the reply that the Prime Minister gave me when example, be able to interview former Labour Ministers setting up the Gibson inquiry, he will not be looking at and ask what they knew about those operations? Will detainee transfers in theatre? Will the Prime Minister he also be able to make some sort of judgment about look again at the protocol, to ensure that Sir Peter can the activities and actions of the last Labour Government? do a proper job? The Prime Minister: As I said, what Sir Peter Gibson The Prime Minister: I will look very carefully at what will be able to do is call for papers and people, and my hon. Friend says, because he has been pursuing this question people about the decisions that they took. He issue with dogged determination over the years, and is looking into accusations of complicity in mistreatment, quite right too. What I would say though is that we are rendition or torture, and all those things, and if Ministers, dealing with an inquiry that is almost entirely concerned whether in the last Government or not, have questions with the security and intelligence services. This is an to answer, they will then need to answer those questions. extremely difficult area to inquire into, and it has to be That is the correct way for these things to be done. done with great sensitivity. I do not want to do anything that puts our country at risk or jeopardises the work of Mr John (Basildon and Billericay) (Con): What our security and intelligence services. I see this as a does the Prime Minister believe to be the lessons from package: there was the clearing of the Guantanamo our intervention when it comes to any possible future Bay detainee cases, which was vital so that the security interventions, given that the Arab League contains countries services could get on with their work; there was the new such as Syria and that we as a country refused to help guidance, so that our officers in the field knew what the citizens of Yemen and Bahrain? they should and should not do; and there is this inquiry to try and clear up the problems of the past. Yes, it is The Prime Minister: As I said in my statement, I do about uncovering any mistreatment or malpractice, which not subscribe to this idea that because we cannot fix is not to be justified in any way, but it is also about every problem in the world, we should not fix any enabling our security services to get on with the job of problem in the world. It seemed to me that, in a totally keeping us safe. practical way, here was a problem that we had a moral obligation to try to deal with because we could prevent Mrs Madeleine Moon (Bridgend) (Lab): The Prime a massacre—as well as, if you like, an “ought”, there Minister has rightly praised the professionalism, skills was also a “could”. We were able to do this because we and ethos of the 2,300 service personnel. If Libya is to had the support of Arab nations, because we had NATO take over responsibility for its own security so that behind us and because we convinced the UN Security those service personnel can return to base and to other Council to vote for it. When “ought” and “can” come duties, will he ensure that, in financial terms, the training together, there is a pretty good case for action. that we provide will help to build a new Libyan army, air force and navy that are competitive with those of Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP): The Prime Minister other countries, so that we can pull our own service has spoken of hope across the wider region following personnel back? If we can provide that training, we can events in Libya. Will both the premium that he and build a new relationship between our armed forces. 41 Libya5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Libya 42

The Prime Minister: Certainly we will make available recognition that Assad is illegitimate and cannot now our advice, services and help for the new Libya. As I take his country forward, is very important, but we still have said, we must allow the Libyan people to choose have not got to a position where there is unanimity what they want to do, rather than force things on them. about that across the Arab world, or indeed in the I do not think we should have the attitude that because United Nations itself. we have helped to liberate Libya we should therefore get some sort of automatic preferred status. We should do Mr William Bain (Glasgow North East) (Lab): Although it on the basis of what we have to offer,and on the basis of Libya is the second richest African nation in terms of all the normal rules and regulations that we bring to this. gross domestic product per capita, it suffers from unemployment rates in excess of 30%. Will the Prime Mr Tobias Ellwood (Bournemouth East) (Con): I Minister tell us how the international community will commend the Prime Minister’s resolve on this issue. He be able to help the new Libyan Government to develop is right to stress that it is for the Libyan people to a more knowledge-based economy and to increase Libya’s determine their future, but the removal of Gaddafi share of trade with the European Union and its other unearths a complex network of tribal alliances, and we major trading partners? are not out of the woods yet. Does my right hon. Friend agree that stability over the next few months will be The Prime Minister: The hon. Gentleman raises an critical if we are to see a role reversal in which the rebels important point. We are trying to change the entire become the state and the pro-Gaddafi tribal forces European neighbourhood policy to make it much more become the insurgents? about market access and trade, and in some ways we have been successful. If those north African countries The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend is quite right to traded as much with each other and with the EU as draw attention to the risks involved in moving from a European countries do, they would have far higher situation in which Gaddafi is in command to one in levels of GDP and much more balanced economies. which he is on the run and the NTC is taking over. The exciting thing about Libya is that, because of its oil There are all sorts of risks, and we should not be wealth and its relative size, it can be an economic complacent or over-confident about what will follow. success story. For too many countries, oil has been a All I would say is that those who warned that Libya was curse rather than a blessing, but Libya has this opportunity a country riven with tribal loyalties, divided between to make a new start and to put those oil revenues to Benghazi and Tripoli and prone to extreme Islam have good use. so far not been proven correct. This revolution was not about extreme Islamism; al-Qaeda played no part in it. It was about people yearning for a voice and job, and it Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con): is our duty to get behind them and help them to build The Prime Minister has indicated that the British that new country. Government is planning to play a role in the vital training of the new military forces of the new Libyan Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab): As Government. Will the resources allocated to this task be the Prime Minister has suggested, some of the rebels greater or less than those allocated by the previous have an al-Qaeda past. We all want good relations with Labour Government in the training of Colonel Gaddafi’s the new Libya, but does he agree that it is important forces, which enabled him better to repress his own that the House has as much information as possible people? about the history of those who are now assuming positions of power, so that we know exactly who we are The Prime Minister: That is an ingenious question. dealing with? The point is that we should wait and see what it is the Libyans want us to do. We clearly have strong capabilities The Prime Minister: Of course that information is in the training of armed forces and police forces, in valuable and, as I have said, we should not be naive and advising on having an independent judiciary and the think we are dealing with just one type of people; we are like, and I believe we should make these available and dealing with all sorts of different people. Encouraging see what the Libyans want. Training the police forces of people who have a strong belief in the Muslim faith into other countries is a difficult issue. In getting into it, one a democratic role, rather than a violent role, is the right is often accused of helping a regime that might not be approach. Obviously, there are concerns about where perfect in every sense, but if we do not do it, we lose the that can lead, but when we look at a country such as opportunity to explain some of the finer points of Turkey, whose Government have some pedigree out of independent policing and respect for human rights. Muslim politics, we see that that can be compatible with This is a very difficult issue that we have not yet got a very successful democracy. right.

Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con): Mr Nick Raynsford (Greenwich and Woolwich) (Lab): The international community has come to the conclusion The Prime Minister rightly emphasised that President that the Assad regime in Syria has become an illegitimate Assad of Syria has lost all legitimacy, that he should regime, and Arab countries such as Saudi Arabia, Kuwait stand aside and that the violence must end. At the same and Jordan have withdrawn their ambassadors from time, the Prime Minister recognises that there is not yet Syria. How far away are we from reaching that conclusion? the degree of international agreement necessary to give effect to those expressions of intent. Will he tell us more The Prime Minister: I think we should act with others, about what he and his Government are doing to try to and in a way that maximises our influence. What has build international agreement to the level where it becomes happened among Arab countries, including their progressive possible to force President Assad to pay attention to 43 Libya5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Libya 44

[Mr Nick Raynsford] UN resolution that enables the NATO mission to go on protecting civilians. It is a balance: we want to get both what the right hon. Gentleman described in respect of those things so that the assets can be unfrozen more Libya as the moral imperative of stopping the slaughter broadly. of civilians? Mr Ben Wallace (Wyre and Preston North) (Con): The Prime Minister: The answer to the right hon. The last Government consistently told us that the whole Gentleman is that it is a series of permanent conversations, reason for working more closely with Libya was the particularly those that my right hon. Friend the Foreign agreement reached in 2003 on weapons of mass destruction. Secretary is having. At the European level, there is a Following the collapse of the Gaddafi regime, we now high degree of unity—in some ways, I think the EU has see that Gaddafi kept hardly any part of that agreement. led the way, particularly with the oil embargo—but we He hoarded massive stocks of chemical weapons in also need to have, and are having, strong discussions order continually to brutalise and ignore human rights. with the permanent members of the Security Council. Does the Prime Minister not think it rather odd that the The right hon. Gentleman’s hon. Friend the Member last Government knew that all along, but for eight years for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) mentioned Russia, which I continued to increase co-operation with the Libyans? shall be visiting soon. We also need discussions with the non-permanent members like South Africa and others, The Prime Minister: That is an important point. and more widely, including with the Arab League, so Hopefully, with a new Government in Libya, we shall that we build international support. There is no substitute be able to see how much of the agreement over weapons for a lot of hard work and diplomacy to try to build the of mass destruction was kept. It is concerning that there strongest possible coalition. are still large supplies of unweaponised mustard gas, on which the international community and, now, the NTC Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con): My must keep a close eye, but, as I have said, when the new right hon. Friend’s actions, saving many lives in Libya, Government get their feet under the table, we may find have been totally vindicated. So that the National out more. Transitional Council is not overwhelmed with offers of help, who will take the lead in reconstruction in Libya and precisely what role will this country play? Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab): Glapwell Contracting Services in my constituency was in the process of completing a contract with the Libyan oil industry when the uprising The Prime Minister: I am very grateful to my hon. started. The failure of that contract to reach completion Friend for what he said. The key is building up—and caused significant financial problems for the company, my right hon. Friend the International Development and it has taken me more than two months to get the Secretary has been key to this—a Libyan-led and Libyan- Department for Business, Innovation and Skills to respond owned plan for transition. It is Libya’s plan—we have to me. Can the Prime Minister tell me whether he will be assisted and helped to co-ordinate, but it is the Libyans’ able to secure any support for the British businesses that plan; others can then slot into it. It has been interesting are in the middle of contracts with Libya, and what to hear what they want—not always the things that one weight he will be able to put behind that? might expect. The biggest single demand made in Paris was for temporary classrooms, because so many schools had been used by Gaddafi’s forces, and for some temporary The Prime Minister: The hon. Gentleman has raised housing. We will fit into these requests, but it is a an important point. I think it will help that not only do Libyan-led plan. we now have a mission in Benghazi, but our ambassador will be becoming established in Tripoli. There will be Mr Andrew Love (Edmonton) (Lab/Co-op): I understand full support for that, and companies such as the one that it is indeed early days for the new Libya, but will that the hon. Gentleman represents in his constituency the Prime Minister say a little more about the discussions will be able to contact the embassy, which will be able to about unfreezing assets? While there is justifiably a need help with the contract. and an urgency to distribute these assets, there are also some concerns about whether they will go to the correct Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): I commend places and whether the concerns expressed around the the Prime Minister for his leadership throughout this Chamber will come to fruition, as they might be affected episode, but may I press him on the issue of cost? What by these assets. Will the Prime Minister say a little more is the latest Treasury estimate of the cost of British about the discussions so far? intervention in Libya? Given that some $15 billion of assets are about to be unfrozen, given that Libya is an The Prime Minister: The hon. Gentleman raises an oil-rich nation, and given that the Arab League wanted important point. What we are doing at the moment is us to become involved, surely it is not unreasonable to taking through parts of unfreezing assets on an ad hoc ask for at least a contribution to the cost that the British basis through the UN Security Council. We were able to taxpayer incurred in freeing the country. unfreeze the Libyan dinars printed by De La Rue in this country, and we can now distribute them back to the The Prime Minister: That is an entirely reasonable Libyan people. As for making sure that they are properly point. So far the cost of our contribution to operations received, as I said in my statement there should be a has been £120 million. The cost of spent munitions is in proper accounting and transparency initiative in Libya. excess of that figure—I think around £140 million. As for a more general asset release, we need a new UN Clearly Britain has spent money to help the Libyan resolution, and we are pushing for it, but we do not people to free themselves, and, as my hon. Friend says, want to lose what we have at the moment, which is a Libya is a wealthy country. We have had not had 45 Libya5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Libya 46 conversations about that to date, but I am sure that Will my right hon. Friend assure the House and the those are matters we can take into account for the country that the Government’s policy will continue to future. be that no military action will take place anywhere in the world unless it is through the UN or NATO? Will he Sajid Javid (Bromsgrove) (Con): I congratulate the bear that in mind when recent reports from the US Prime Minister on the leadership role played by him about the possible nuclear aspirations of Iran come into and his team, but does he agree that this is ultimately a the debate? Libyan and not a foreign triumph? The Prime Minister: I hear absolutely what my hon. Friend says, but I do not think that I can entirely give The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend has made the that assurance. I think it is important that Britain is able important point that this would not have happened to act in self-defence, and sometimes there is not time to without the Libyan people. They took the initiative, go to the UN or NATO, so I do not believe in giving that although we were able to help them. I think it important sort of assurance. On this issue, however, I think it was to the future development of the country for young right to go to the UN, right to act with allies and right Libyans in the future to learn about the incredibly to bring together Arab partners to work with us. At all heroic things that their fathers and grandfathers did. times, one should try to build the broadest alliances. This was something that the Libyans did for themselves rather than our doing it for them, and—in terms of Mark Menzies (Fylde) (Con): The Prime Minister their history, their pride, and what I hope they will build has already recognised the game-changing role that the in their country—that will be fantastically important RAF and the Typhoon Eurofighter played. Will he join for the future. me in recognising the work played by civilians and non-uniform personnel in keeping that aircraft flying Mr Mike Hancock (Portsmouth South) (LD): Bearing and in service at all times? in mind the widespread media interest in the whereabouts of Musa Kusa, can the Prime Minister confirm that he The Prime Minister: I am delighted to do that. As I is still in the United Kingdom? If Musa Kusa is not in say, the Tornado performed magnificently in the skies the United Kingdom, what part did the Prime Minister above Libya, but the Typhoon did, too. That is a tribute play in letting him leave, and how can our intelligence to the pilots, the ground staff and ground crew, but also services be expected to debrief him properly? to all those involved in manufacturing and maintaining that aircraft. Touching the wood of the Dispatch Box, I The Prime Minister: I believe that Musa Kusa is think that those airplanes and their crews have performed currently in Doha, where he has spent quite a lot of very well. time, but I understand that he is co-operating fully with the police inquiry and has been questioned by the Alok Sharma (Reading West) (Con): I too congratulate police. No special or sweetheart deals were done in the Prime Minister on leading the international effort in respect of Musa Kusa, and, as I have said, I hope that Libya. May I say that it is rather refreshing finally to the police investigation will continue. have a Prime Minister who leads from the front? Will he give us a few more details on the humanitarian aid that Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con): The act of surrendering Britain and the international community are providing is probably the most dangerous thing that a combatant and are planning to provide, which will be incredibly has to do. How can we encourage the forces of the NTC important in the days, weeks and months ahead? to act within the rules of war, and specifically within the Geneva convention? If they do, the remnants of Gaddafi’s The Prime Minister: I am happy to do that. We have forces will be encouraged to surrender more quickly, helped through the ICRC to provide medical assistance and there will be less loss of life. to 5,000 people. We have provided food for, I believe, around 700,000 people. We are working with others to provide water as well. On the humanitarian situation, The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend speaks with we have always been ready to do more. The planning great knowledge of this matter, and he is right to make carried out by the Department for International that point. I have been impressed by the fact that the Development has been first class. The needs have not Free Libya Forces have extended the deadline for Gaddafi always been as great as predicted, because the Libyans forces to surrender. Of course, there have been reports have responded themselves relatively rapidly to deal of abuse on all sides, although the Gaddafi war crimes with shortages and problems. put everything else into perspective. On the whole, however, it has been remarkable how the Free Libya Jason McCartney (Colne Valley) (Con): A lot of forces have tried to behave properly and to integrate lessons have been learned, such as not helping the sons people who want to give up and reconcile. of dictators with their university coursework, but one of the key elements of the success has been the role of Alec Shelbrooke (Elmet and Rothwell) (Con): May I the Arab League, particularly the role played by nations congratulate the Prime Minister on his work in going to such as Qatar with their special forces. Will the Prime the UN before any military action was taken in Libya? Minister implore the Arab League to take strong action I reiterate to him that a constituent of mine fled Libya. and to condemn what is happening in Syria? They were full of nothing but praise. They were from Benghazi and, having been a British citizen originally, The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend makes a good they were in fear of their life following the threats that point, and the Secretary General of the Arab League is Gaddafi made. going to Damascus. It has been a great moment for the 47 Libya5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Libya 48

[The Prime Minister] Tripoli before pressing the case a huge amount further. This is a police investigation too, and I would urge the Arab League. The role that the Emiratis, the Qataris Metropolitan police to do what they can to push the and the Jordanians played made a lot of these things investigation forward and work with the new Libyan possible. We should also reassess how we work with authorities. those countries and what more we can do in training and working together, because that has been very successful Stephen Metcalfe (South Basildon and East Thurrock) on this occasion. (Con): As my right hon. Friend will be aware, and as we have heard this afternoon, a number of businesses, Stephen Hammond (Wimbledon) (Con): I join colleagues including some in my constituency, have been seriously who have praised the military effort and the clarity of adversely affected by the conflict in Libya, leaving them the Prime Minister’s purpose. He is of course right to with large unpaid bills. Will he agree to do all he can, say that this was a Libyan civil uprising and a Libyan through whatever reasonable channels there are, to triumph, but does he agree that one of the consequences put pressure on the NTC to pay those bills as soon as of the international action in the civil uprising was that possible, to protect British jobs and companies—and many more civilian lives were saved than might have perhaps also work in future with the Department for otherwise been so? The fact that the international Business, Innovation and Skills to put in place a system community was prepared to take a role shows other that protects companies that do business in some of countries where there are aspirant democracies against these more volatile countries? dictators that we will play an appropriate role if required. The Prime Minister: Obviously, the Government cannot The Prime Minister: I am grateful to my hon. Friend stand behind every contract that every individual firm for what he says. I hope that dictators throughout the enters into anywhere in the world, but I completely world will have taken note of what has happened and understand why my hon. Friend feels strongly on behalf recognise that the long arm of international law can of his constituents, and that is why we have embassies have, as I put it earlier, a long reach and a long memory. around the world, and why we will now have a new I also pay tribute to our armed forces and all those ambassador in Tripoli, Dominic Asquith, and a new responsible for targeting for the huge work that was team around him that will be able to make progress on done to try to avoid civilian casualties and to avoid all such issues that hon. Members raise. damaging civilian infrastructure. One of the reasons that parts of Libya are getting back to work, I hope relatively quickly, is that a lot of the civilian infrastructure Gareth Johnson (Dartford) (Con): I agree with the was left untouched. Prime Minister that we should not rush to judgment on some of these issues, but does he agree that it is at least questionable for the last Government to have sent UK Mr Julian Brazier (Canterbury) (Con): I too congratulate police officers to Libya to train Gaddafi’s forces when the Prime Minister both on his role throughout this those responsible for WPC Fletcher’s murder were still conflict and the cautious way forward he has charted. at large? Does he agree that Israel falling out with its old ally Turkey shortly after the awful border problems with Egypt is not making life any easier for the moderate The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend makes an important voices in the Arab League and those who want to move point. Let me say again that I think it was right to the region forward? re-form a relationship with Libya when it gave up weapons of mass destruction, but we had to do that in The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend is entirely right. the right way, and I do not believe we made enough We need to encourage Israel to work with all its moderate progress on issues such as the murder of Yvonne Fletcher, friends and allies for a safe and secure future, and and I also do not think that the al-Megrahi case was obviously that is more difficult when relations between handled in the right way. Israel and Turkey are more challenged. Henry Smith (Crawley) (Con): Five years ago, the David Morris (Morecambe and Lunesdale) (Con): It then Government invited two of Gaddafi’s sons to visit is refreshing to see a Prime Minister leading from the SAS headquarters, which I think was quite appalling. front, as my hon. Friend the Member for Reading West What lessons can we learn about the appeasing of (Alok Sharma) said, but I am very concerned about the abusive dictatorships? Yvonne Fletcher investigation. Will the Prime Minister assure me that all avenues will be followed to bring the The Prime Minister: I have a feeling that if they perpetrator of this crime to book? invited him again, they might treat him rather differently this time. As I have said: it is right to have a new The Prime Minister: I can certainly give my hon. relationship but wrong to be quite so gullible in how Friend that assurance. That is why I raised the case that was carried out—and, for all the reasons that have personally with Prime Minister Jibril at the Paris conference. been given, I also think that helping to complete PhD I would just say that I think it is important that we allow theses is probably not a role Ministers should enter into this new Government to get their feet under the table in in respect of other countries. 49 5 SEPTEMBER 2011 50

Point of Order Terrorism Prevention and Investigation Measures Bill 4.54 pm [Relevant documents: The Sixteenth Report from the Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con): On a point Joint Committee on Human Rights, Legislative Scrutiny: of order, Mr Speaker. It has recently been reported that Terrorism Prevention and Investigation Measures Bill, the Director of Public Prosecutions has stated that the HC 1432.] same sentence ought to be imposed on a rioter committing Consideration of Bill, as amended in the Public Bill a criminal act in the context of the riots as on an Committee individual criminal committing the same act by itself. Given that magistrates have admirably been imposing exemplary sentences, can you, Mr Speaker, tell the New Clause 3 House whether we can expect a statement from a Justice Minister on whether the Government support the DPP’s EXPIRY AND REPEAL OF TPIM POWERS view or the view of the magistrates and, indeed, the ‘(1) Except so far as otherwise provided under this section, the British people? Secretary of State’s TPIM powers expire at the end of 5 years beginning with the day on which this Act is passed. Mr Speaker: Experience has suggested to me that it is (2) The Secretary of State may, by order made by statutory unwise for me to expect anything—and I have expected instrument— so far nothing from a Minister on this matter. I have (a) repeal the Secretary of State’s TPIM powers; received no notification, no hint, no twitch of an eyebrow, (b) at any time revive the Secretary of State’s TPIM no signal otherwise. I hope I satisfy the hon. Member powers for a period not exceeding 5 years; for New Forest East (Dr Lewis) who, in the process of (c) provide that the Secretary of State’s TPIM powers— making his point, has alerted none other than the Prime (i) are not to expire at the time when they would Minister to what he believes is its force and significance. otherwise expire under subsection (1) or in accordance with an order under this subsection; We come now to the main business—[Interruption.] but The Whip on duty is ahead of himself, and we are (ii) are to continue in force after that time for a period grateful to him. What I was going to say, and will now not exceeding 5 years. do so, is that the Clerk will now—[Interruption.] Whips (3) Before making an order under this section the Secretary of are usually behind the curve. Something has happened State must consult— and they are doing better today, almost too well. (a) the independent reviewer appointed for the purposes of [Interruption.] It is the effect of the holiday of the hon. section 20; Member for North Herefordshire (Bill Wiggin), as he (b) the Intelligence Services Commissioner; and pertinently observes from a sedentary position. (c) the Director-General of the Security Service. (4) An order under this section may not be made unless a draft of it has been laid before Parliament and approved by a resolution of each House. (5) Subsection (4) does not apply to an order that contains a declaration by the Secretary of State that the order needs, by reason of urgency, to be made without the approval required by that subsection. (6) An order that contains such a declaration— (a) must be laid before Parliament after being made; and (b) if not approved by a resolution of each House before the end of 40 days beginning with the day on which the order was made, ceases to have effect at the end of that period. (7) Where an order ceases to have effect in accordance with subsection (6), that does not— (a) affect anything previously done in reliance on the order; or (b) prevent the making of a new order to the same or similar effect. (8) In this section— “40 days” means 40 days computed as provided for in section 7(1) of the Statutory Instruments Act 1946; “Secretary of State’s TPIM powers” means— (a) the power to impose a TPIM notice under section2; (b) the power to extend a TPIM notice under section5(2); (c) the power to vary a TPIM notice under section12(1)(c); and (d) the power to revive a TPIM notice under section13(6) to (9).’.—(James Brokenshire.) Brought up, and read the First time. 51 Terrorism Prevention and 5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Terrorism Prevention and 52 Investigation Measures Bill Investigation Measures Bill 4.56 pm Senior National Co-ordinator for Counter-terrorism the required resources under paragraph (a) and the The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the timetable for such required resources becoming Home Department (James Brokenshire): I beg to move, deployable for use in implementing and managing That the clause be read a Second time. measures relating to TPIM notices; (c) this Act cannot come into force until the required Mr Speaker: With this it will be convenient to discuss resources as agreed under paragraph (b) above are the following: made available and ready for deployment.’. Government new clause 4—Section (Expiry and repeal of TPIM powers): supplementary provision. James Brokenshire: In starting our consideration of the Bill, we will be reflecting on a number of points and New clause 7—Annual renewal issues that were debated in Committee. I look forward ‘(1) Except in so far as otherwise provided under this Clause, to continuing some of the debates that we had with Clause 2 and all other consequential clauses in this Act will Members who were part of that Committee, and to expire at the end of the period of 12 months beginning with the day on which this Act comes into force. other Members joining today’s consideration. (2) The Secretary of State may by order made by statutory This group contains two related but distinct sets of instrument— amendments. The first deals with expiry and renewal of (a) repeal Clause 2 and all other consequential clauses in the legislation, and the second with its commencement. this Act; or On expiry and renewal, the Government new clauses (b) provide that Clause 2 will not expire at the time when it and amendments return to an important matter that would otherwise expire under subsection (1) of this was raised on Second Reading and in Committee: the Clause but will continue in force after that time for a duration of the Bill’s provisions and whether they should period not exceeding one year. be subject to any form of sunset or renewal. (3) Before making an order under subsection (2)(b) of this A number of arguments have been advanced. The Clause the Secretary of State must consult— Government previously set out their view that the Bill is (a) the Independent Reviewer of Counter-Terrorism the product of a lengthy and considered review, that it Legislation; makes significant improvements to the control orders (b) the police; and system, and that it establishes a framework that ought (c) the security services. to be able to operate stably and effectively on a permanent (4) No order may be made by the Secretary of State under this basis. The point has been well made that we are legislators, Clause unless a draft of it has been laid before Parliament and and that we are fully competent to review the necessity approved by a resolution of each House. of legislation, and to amend or repeal it if it is no longer (5) Subsection (4) of this Clause does not apply to an order necessary or if changes are needed. However, it has also that contains a declaration by the Secretary of State that the been argued with some force that the nature of the order needs, by reason of urgency, to be made without the approval required by subsection (4). powers in the Bill makes some form of regular review appropriate, both to reflect the weighty responsibility (6) An order under this Clause that contains such a on Parliament when it accords the Government such declaration— powers, and to focus minds on the need to ensure that (a) must be laid before Parliament after being made; and the legislation remains in force only as long as is necessary. (b) if not approved by a resolution of each House before the end of 40 days beginning with the day on which the order was made, ceases to have effect at the end of Mr Pat McFadden (Wolverhampton South East) (Lab): that period. If this Bill is the product of a long and considered (7) Where an order ceases to have effect in accordance with review, why did the Government think it necessary to subsection (6), that does not— publish an alternative Bill last Thursday night? (a) affect anything previously done in reliance on the order; or James Brokenshire: I will come to that point during (b) prevent the making of a new order to the same or consideration of further amendments, but I draw the similar effect.’. right hon. Gentleman’s attention to the Government’s counter-terrorism review—which specifically contemplated Government amendments 11 and 13. the necessity of enhanced measures, should exceptional Amendment 8, page 15, line 41, clause 27, leave out circumstances require them—and to the specific paragraphs from ‘Act’to end of line and insert ‘will come into force and references in that review. That is why I have said on 1 January 2013’. that the product of this legislation has been subject to Amendment 20, page 15, line 41, clause 27, leave out that careful consideration. from ‘Act’to end of line and insert ‘will come into force the day after the Home Secretary reports to Parliament to confirm that paragraphs (a), (b) and (c) below have 5pm been complied with— Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab): I believe that this is (a) no later than one month after the day on which this the hon. Gentleman’s first time at the Dispatch Box Act is passed, the Senior National Co-ordinator for with his new responsibilities as counter-terrorism Minister, Counter-terrorism will produce a report to the Home so may I congratulate him on his appointment and on Secretary detailing the additional required resources taking on that portfolio? (“required resources”) that will be needed to manage the increased risks arising from the repeal of the I am concerned about Lord Macdonald’s role in the Prevention of Terrorism Act 2005 and the passing of Government’s latest suggestions. He was their reviewer this Act; of counter-terrorism policy, he produced a report and (b) no later than two months after the day on which this there were differences between him and the Government Act is passed the Home Secretary will agree with the on a number of important points. Has he had the 53 Terrorism Prevention and 5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Terrorism Prevention and 54 Investigation Measures Bill Investigation Measures Bill opportunity to comment on the Bill? Has the Home Cambridge (Dr Huppert) and other members of the Secretary spoken to him about the substance of what is Committee for the manner in which that discussion was before the House today? held and for the points made. In line with that commitment, I reflected carefully on those points, noted the feelings James Brokenshire: The right hon. Gentleman is probably and introduced new clauses 3 and 4. They specify that aware that Lord Macdonald produced a separate report the operative powers under the Bill will expire after five alongside the counter-terrorism review document to years, unless they are renewed by the Secretary of State, which I have alluded. That analysis and ancillary by order, subject to the affirmative resolution procedure. documentation fitted alongside the review, which was There would also be an order-making power to repeal published earlier this year. We will deal in further detail the powers or to revive them when they had been with the points I made about the Bill’s provisions and allowed to expire without their having been renewed. with the concept of the need for exceptional emergency We consider that that approach strikes the right balance. measures when we discuss the second group of amendments. It ensures that there will be a statutory requirement regularly to review the need for the legislation and each Keith Vaz rose— new Parliament will have the opportunity to debate it in the context of the situation at the time and to take its James Brokenshire: I am sorry if I have not satisfied own view. We do not believe, however, that such a the right hon. Gentleman’s inquiries. review is necessary annually. Keith Vaz: The Minister usually satisfies them, but on The requirement for a review every five years, rather this occasion he has not. What was Lord Macdonald’s than every single year, as with control orders, seems to role in these new proposals? Has he had an opportunity us to strike the right balance. It will avoid what the right to look at them and comment on them? That is all I hon. Member for Wythenshawe and Sale East (Paul wish to find out. Goggins) referred to on Second Reading as “the constant arguing and bickering on this issue year after year James Brokenshire: As the right hon. Gentleman will when we should be seeking consensus in the face of the terrible know, the foreword to Lord Macdonald’s report said threats that terrorists bring”.—[Official Report, 7 June 2011; that he was invited Vol. 529, c. 84-85.] “to provide independent oversight of the Review”. The Bill will be subject to full parliamentary scrutiny, That is the role that he conducted. He was asked to according to the usual timetable, which will allow such a settled position to be reached. That is in contrast to “ensure that it is properly conducted, that all the relevant options the control orders legislation that it replaces, which was have been considered and the recommendations are balanced.” pushed through with little opportunity for debate, making That was the role he was required to carry out in the annual renewal an appropriate safeguard—but one that counter-terrorism review, which, obviously, led to the we do not believe is necessary for this Bill. preparation of this Bill. Renewal every five years therefore provides an Dr Julian Huppert (Cambridge) (LD) rose— appropriately balanced approach. It reflects not only the seriousness with which we take these powers and the James Brokenshire: I will give way one further time need to build in effective safeguards to ensure that they and then I will make some progress. do not remain in force longer than necessary but the competence of this House and the other place to apply intense scrutiny to legislation and to arrive at a position Dr Huppert: I am not comfortable with the draft Bill, that will not need to be reviewed annually. It also but will the Minister accept my congratulations on recognises the sustained nature of the threat and the moving the Government forward from the position set fact that, sadly, these measures are likely to continue to out in comments made by his former colleague, Baroness be necessary for the foreseeable future. Neville-Jones? She said that this emergency power would be discussed only with the Opposition and would not be scrutinised by Parliament, so will he accept my Dr Huppert: I thank the Minister for giving way and congratulations on moving to a much more democratic for accepting the idea I floated in Committee. Will he process? give me some reassurance that if in five years’ time he and his party are part of the Government they will James Brokenshire: We have made it clear that the approach the question in the spirit of carrying out a full draft Bill will be subject to review and scrutiny by a review, as this Government did? That would enable Joint Committee of the House, and we believe that to be detailed analysis and preparation before any further the right way forward. votes were taken. Let me return to the new clauses in this group. We have carefully considered the various debates in Committee James Brokenshire: As the hon. Gentleman will be on the length and duration of the Bill. An amendment aware, one Parliament cannot bind another. It would was tabled that would have introduced an annual renewal not be appropriate for me to suggest or require that a of the powers, equivalent to that currently contained in future Government act in a particular way when addressing the Prevention of Terrorism Act 2005 in relation to such points. It would be reasonable and appropriate, control orders. An amendment with the same effect is however, to consider these matters carefully and in a before us today as new clause 7. Members of the measured and appropriate way, examining the security Committee will recall that we had a helpful debate and issues at that point in time in the same way as this that I made a commitment to consider the matter Government sought to do in our counter-terrorism further and return to it. I thank the hon. Member for review, which led to the creation of this Bill. We consider 55 Terrorism Prevention and 5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Terrorism Prevention and 56 Investigation Measures Bill Investigation Measures Bill [James Brokenshire] electronic equipment that will be required to meet the increased risk that will inevitably be caused by the Bill. that a five-year renewal period, allowing each Parliament Does he believe that Mr Osborne is entirely incorrect? the opportunity to take a view on this important issue, strikes the right balance. James Brokenshire: I will certainly come to that point because it is at the crux of the amendments relating to Richard Fuller (Bedford) (Con): I join my hon. Friend this part of the Bill and to the points that the right hon. the Member for Cambridge (Dr Huppert) in welcoming Lady and other right hon. and hon. Members made in this measure. May I probe the Minister a little further Committee. The Metropolitan Police Service has confirmed on the spirit of the renewal every five years? Will he give that arrangements will be in place effectively to manage some guidance about whether, in his view, we should the transition from control orders to TPIM notices have a thorough and complete review of these measures when they become effective. During the summer I had a every five years rather than sending them through on number of conversations with the Metropolitan Police the nod for another five years, saying that they seem to Service and I went to see the team that has responsibility be working? Many of us would have liked to have seen for managing those who are subject to control orders the Government go further to undo some of the damage and for managing terrorists who have been released done by the previous Government and it is important from prison and are subsequently being managed. It that we hear whether the Minister anticipates the review has been very humbling to see the work that they do on every five years to be more thorough than the annual a weekly basis to ensure that we are all properly protected. on-the-nod review. I have spoken personally to those who will be involved in managing the transition and the new regime. I cannot James Brokenshire: As I said to the hon. Member for go into detail about the plans that are at hand, but I Cambridge, I would certainly anticipate a considered assure the House that I have been impressed by the review of counter-terrorism powers when the time arrived. range of excellent work that is under way. I reiterate That would be the appropriate way to proceed and to that the Metropolitan Police Service has confirmed that examine the renewal. The time period will also allow arrangements will be in place effectively to manage the further and broader consideration of the security position transition from control orders to TPIM notices when at that point and of what measures might be required, that change takes place. necessary and appropriate to deal with the risks, challenges and issues that face our country. Hazel Blears: I have no doubt that the Metropolitan I do not wish to detain the House, but I should Police Service is doing everything it can to try to ensure explain briefly that amendments 11 and 13 make necessary the risk to the public is properly managed—it would technical changes to clauses 19 and 20 in consequence absolutely be committed to doing that. However, we of Government new clauses 3 and 4. Amendment 11 have on record DAC Osborne’s evidence to the Committee ensures that the Secretary of State is not under a that it would take more than a year to get these resources nugatory duty to report on the exercise of her powers into place. If the Minister is now saying that the under the Bill at a time when her powers have expired or Metropolitan police have revised their view and that it been repealed. Similarly, amendment 13 ensures that will not take a year, may we have something similar in the independent reviewer is not under a duty to report writing, as evidence, for all Members who are concerned on the operation of the Act for periods when the about these matters, so that we can see that DAC operative powers are not in force. Osborne’s original statement was incorrect? Amendments 8 and 20, which were tabled by the Opposition, relate to when the Bill may come into force —currently, the day after it receives Royal Assent. It has James Brokenshire: The right hon. Lady has consistently been suggested, and I have consistently and strongly made this point and we debated this issue at length in refuted such suggestions, that the police and the Security Committee, but I have been quite clear to the House Service will not be ready to implement the new system about the statements that the Metropolitan Police Service when the Bill is expected to receive Royal Assent because has made to the Home Office. It has confirmed that the additional investigative resources that will complement arrangements will be in place effectively to manage the the new system will not be in place. On that basis, and transition from control orders to TPIM notices. I am on the basis of wider suggestions that the powers under being quite specific and explicit in relation to that and the new system will be insufficient to protect the public, the work that has been undertaken to prepare for that it has also been suggested that the new system should transition. Although I accept the points that the right not be introduced before the 2012 Olympics. hon. Lady has made, I have been quite clear about the assurances that we have gained in that regard and, similarly, the work that the Security Service has developed Hazel Blears (Salford and Eccles) (Lab): Does the in its detailed plans for its additional allocation over the Minister recall that when Deputy Assistant Commissioner next four years, which it too is implementing. Osborne gave evidence to the Committee, he said: “To get the resources that we anticipate we need will take more than a year, in terms of being able to get people trained and to get Shabana Mahmood (Birmingham, Ladywood) (Lab): the right equipment. Until we have got that, we will not be able to The Minister will recall from Committee that one of the start to bed things in and see how it works and how it transpires”?— issues regarding additional resources was the fact that [Official Report, Terrorism Prevention and Investigation Measures we are talking not just about money but about the extra Public Bill Committee, 21 June 2011; c. 9, Q27.] surveillance officers who will be required to meet the Clearly, the Minister is rejecting DAC Osborne’s evidence increased risk under the TPIMs regime, which did not that it will take more than a year to get the agents exist under control orders because we had relocation trained to have the necessary skills and to get the and longer curfews. DAC Osborne was clear that it 57 Terrorism Prevention and 5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Terrorism Prevention and 58 Investigation Measures Bill Investigation Measures Bill takes about a year to train the extra surveillance officers. James Brokenshire: I am aware that the right hon. Will the Minister explain how that will be truncated and Gentleman had that exchange with the Prime Minister how the training will now take less than a year? and has subsequently written to him. He raised the point in a fair and balanced way and, from my reading James Brokenshire: Let me make it clear that the of the record, the Prime Minister said that he would additional resources are not simply about providing look carefully and closely at what he said. I can tell the additional human surveillance capacity. The police and right hon. Gentleman that we have looked carefully and Security Service will use the additional money to enhance closely at what he said, but the approach that we are their use of a range of covert investigative techniques, taking is as I have set out in relation to the Bill and as including human and technical surveillance. It is not I set out this afternoon. simply about that one point. Although I am unable to go into the detail of the preparations that are in hand, Right hon. and hon. Members will appreciate that we the police service and the Security Service have been cannot provide detailed breakdowns of what money we engaged in work to ensure that appropriate measures provide for specific security activities. This could provide are in place to provide us with the assurance that the detailed information about our capabilities and techniques, TPIMs regime will work as we intend, so that we as a which could undermine national security. But the Government can fulfil our responsibilities and provide Government continue to consider that the TPIMs regime assurances on this important point. and the additional resources for the police and Security Service for covert investigation provide an acceptable 5.15 pm balance between the needs of national security and civil liberties, and that the overall package mitigates the risks Mr Gerry Sutcliffe (Bradford South) (Lab): This that we face. Indeed, the additional resources for covert crucial point came up in Committee. I understand what investigative techniques could increase the opportunities the Minister is saying. He sought reassurances from the for the collection of evidence that may be used in a Met, as we would expect, but we had the evidence of prosecution. DAC Osborne. If the process is to work, surely we should have before us a letter of confirmation from the It would be irresponsible of the Government to introduce Met stating what the Minister is telling us and assuring the new system when it was not safe to do so. I am sure us that the Met have revised their position as set out in that there is absolute consensus on that, and I appreciate DAC Osborne’s evidence to the Committee, and that that the proposed changes are intended to ensure that they are happy with that. I fully respect the Minister’s the Government are not able to take such a risk with word and I understand what he is saying, but for the public safety, but I have been clear in what I have said benefit of the process that should be put in writing from and about the assurances that we have obtained, and, the Met to the Committee or to the House. on the introduction of the new regime, the Government would not take such a risk if they were not satisfied James Brokenshire: I have made clear the assurances about the steps and approaches being taken by the that we have received. I know how the hon. Gentleman Metropolitan Police Service and Security Service. approaches these matters, and we have had numerous I have moved new clause 3, and I look forward to debates on numerous issues over the years. We have further debate about the other new clauses and amendments. sought assurance. In preparing the Bill and the change to current practice, the Government have proceeded by seeking to assure ourselves that appropriate measures Shabana Mahmood: May I welcome the Minister are in place to mitigate the risk posed by those who are formally to his place? It is a pleasure to continue on suspected of being involved in terrorism but cannot be Report the debate that we had in Committee. deported or prosecuted. As I have said consistently in relation to TPIMs, the legislation and the enhanced I shall speak to new clause 7 and amendment 20, capabilities that the police and the Security Service will which stand in my name and those of my right hon. and have ensure that there is a balanced package of measures hon. Friends. I am grateful to the Minister for his that will operate as we intend. We are satisfied that the explanation of the Government’s movement in relation preparations in hand will lead to the changes envisaged to the introduction of new clause 3 and new clause 4, by the Bill following Royal Assent. which, as he explained, envisages a five-year sunset clause and moves us somewhat further on than did our Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab): I debate in Committee. commend the Minister for the visit that he made to the Metropolitan police, but his assurances this afternoon New clause 7 would replicate the position under the go nowhere near far enough. Since his visit to the Prevention of Terrorism Act 2005, which brought in the Metropolitan police, has he had a chance or has his control order regime, and the amendment would limit right hon. Friend the Home Secretary had a chance to 12 months the powers under the TPIMs regime and to talk to the Prime Minister about the matter? On would, therefore, require their annual renewal by Parliament. 11 August, when Parliament was recalled, I asked the Our new clause began in Committee as an amendment, Prime Minister to consider delaying or preferably cancelling which I moved, and was based on oral evidence given in the new provisions, particularly in relation to relocation. Committee by Liberty, Justice and others. It was introduced The Prime Minister said: to reflect our concerns that the Government’s legislation “I will certainly look very carefully and closely at what he will mean fewer checks and balances on what are exceptional says.”—[Official Report, 11 August 2011; Vol. 531, c. 1074.] measures. Many in the House agree that they are undesirable I have not had a chance to speak to the Prime Minister and in an ideal world we would not have to have them, about that, but I am sure the Minister has. Will he but they have proved necessary, given the serious terrorist update us? risks that we face. 59 Terrorism Prevention and 5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Terrorism Prevention and 60 Investigation Measures Bill Investigation Measures Bill [Shabana Mahmood] Shabana Mahmood: Wherever possible, we should clearly proceed down the criminal justice system route. I do not often agree with Liberty, particularly on If that is available in the irreducible minimum number control orders, because our starting points for the debate of cases that we have, it should be pursued. I expect the are different, but I was struck by its evidence in Committee, police and responsible prosecutors to ensure that when the organisation made it clear that it would rather—to prosecutions take place wherever possible. I think that be fair to Shami Chakrabarti, she said that she would all Members on both sides of the House share the view choke on these words—take existing control orders, that it is far better that individuals involved in terrorism- with their annual renewal, meaning a 12-month limit on related activity are prosecuted, convicted and banged their power, over the new TPIMs regime. The reasons up. However, there are cases where it is not possible to why—and why I agree with that position—primarily convert the evidence that we have, which is intelligence relate to the importance of bringing such exceptional based, into evidence that would be admissible in a court measures back to the House for regular, annual review of law. For those cases, it is necessary to have a different and, if Parliament deems it appropriate, for renewal. system to deal with the risk. If we could avoid being in that position, of course we would, but it is just not Richard Fuller: I was not on the Committee, but in possible because of the nature of the evidence and the the evidence I noted Lord Carlile’s comments about the intelligence sources that it relies on. I am afraid to say point of annual renewal. He said that that it will not always be possible to resort to the “annual renewal has been a bit of a fiction, to be frank,” criminal justice system and that a different kind of system for dealing with this risk is therefore necessary. and went on to issue a challenge, stating that Parliament should have the courage of its convictions and decide Mr Mark Field (Cities of London and Westminster) whether it wants a regime like this or not.”—[Official Report, (Con): I have immense sympathy with the views that Terrorism Prevention and Investigation Measures Public Bill Committee, 21 June 2011; c. 23-24, Q70.] have just been expressed by the hon. Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn). Equally, I have some sympathy How does the hon. Lady square that with her view of with the notion that we should look at this legislation annual reviews? on a more regular basis. However, the hon. Lady has not addressed the issue raised by my hon. Friend the Shabana Mahmood: I am grateful for that intervention, Member for Bedford (Richard Fuller) a moment ago. and I will come to Lord Carlile’s evidence in Committee. The reality is that with Northern Ireland terrorism He clearly did not think that annual renewal was needed, before 2005, the annual reviews were entirely a fiction but recent developments, in particular the introduction and the powers went through on the nod. I have some of the Government’s draft Bill four days ago, make sympathy with the Minister’s view that a five-yearly annual renewal even more necessary than before. I will review allows for a proper review, provided that the turn shortly to the reasons why. safeguards are in place. Although an annual review might sound like better protection on the face of it, it Dr Huppert: May I ask the hon. Lady the same becomes largely a fiction. question that I asked the Minister? If the measures before us are passed and there is a five-yearly cycle, and Shabana Mahmood: I am surprised that the hon. if the Government then include her and her party, will Gentleman would describe parliamentary debate and she commit to a full and proper review of the entire holding the Government to account as a fiction. I do counter-terror strategy, as this Government have? not think that having an annual debate is a fiction. It is important that we give right hon. and hon. Members Shabana Mahmood: I am afraid that I have to give the the chance to hold the Government to account, to hon. Gentleman exactly the same answer that the Minister review how the powers have been used throughout a gave, which is that obviously one Parliament cannot particular year, and to take a view on whether the risk is constrain another. I imagine that most new Governments such that we still need an exceptional system of rules would want to look carefully and responsibly at what outside the criminal justice system. I do not believe that are exceptional measures. We have all stated on many those debates are a fiction. occasions that in an ideal world we would not need these powers. The risk is developing all the time and I Mr David Davis (Haltemprice and Howden) (Con): would hope that any Government would keep these Does the hon. Lady accept that using intelligence-based matters under continual review, rather than just saying evidence, such as evidence obtained under torture, evidence that they will do it every five years. I think that that from foreign countries or unchecked intercept evidence, clearly sets out our position. leads to a greater chance of a miscarriage of justice? The reason I raise that point now is that we did not Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab): I am interested once, in the course of all the so-called reviews of the in my hon. Friend’s answer. Does she not think that we control order legislation, hear about any miscarriages should move in the direction of using criminal law in all of justice. Of course, there were several, as was demonstrated cases, rather than going down this endless route of by the courts. special legislation? I have been in this House long enough to have voted against most of these pieces of Shabana Mahmood: I am grateful for the right hon. legislation, starting with the renewal of the Prevention Gentleman’s intervention. In the end, we must accept of Terrorism (Temporary Provisions) Act 1974. I did so that there is an irreducible minimum number of cases in because it departed from the criminal law and essentially which the intelligence tells us that a serious risk is posed involved the executive powers of Ministers, which I am by an individual and they have to be dealt with, but they sure she will agree is a dangerous thing. cannot be brought within the criminal justice system. 61 Terrorism Prevention and 5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Terrorism Prevention and 62 Investigation Measures Bill Investigation Measures Bill We must accept that we need a system for mitigating made in Committee in support of more regular review that risk and for bringing those individuals under some and renewal of the powers. However, I do not believe form of control to prevent them from attack planning, that the new clauses go far enough, or that review every which might lead to the loss of innocent lives. five years would meet our concerns about how the Bill and the new TPIMs regime will operate in practice. Dr Huppert: I thank the hon. Lady for giving way; There are a number of reasons for our concerns. The she is being very generous. I was interested in her first, which the Minister touched on, is about resources. answer to the hon. Member for Islington North (Jeremy We have real concern about the additional resources Corbyn) about alternatives. Does she agree with the that the police have said will be required under the new shadow Home Secretary that: regime because there will be a higher risk under TPIMs. “There are cases where police bail can, of course, be used”?— We are concerned about how they will be deployed and [Official Report, 7 July 2011; Vol. 530, c. 1688.] come on line ready for the police to use. Given that Alternatively, does she prefer the line that she used in uncertainty, annual renewal and an early opportunity the Public Bill Committee that police bail is not the way for Parliament to consider how the new TPIMs regime to deal with such cases? is getting on would be very welcome. It is necessary also because of the draft Bill that the Government printed Shabana Mahmood: I note that the hon. Gentleman’s only about four days ago as it would bring control order amendments on police bail did not make the selection powers back into the system by way of emergency list today, so we cannot continue the debate on it that legislation. We have a number of questions about how was begun in Committee. I simply repeat to him the that alternative regime may operate, which we will come position as it was stated in Committee. There may well to in the next group of amendments. be some cases in which it is possible to consider whether police bail might be an answer, but I do not believe that Dr Huppert: I am fascinated by what the hon. Lady that would be possible in the vast majority of cases. says about her desire to review the legislation. It seems That is not the view of the experts, including the individuals that we are perhaps talking at cross purposes about the who looked into the matter under the last Labour role of a sunset clause. I would like one because I would Government. That was why the control orders regime like TPIMs to go the same way that I want control was deemed necessary. orders to go. It sounds like she wants a review so that she can bring the subject of TPIMs back up and make 5.30 pm them more draconian. Is that why she would like a I also say to the hon. Gentleman that when an review? individual is put on police bail, it is with a view to bringing a prosecution. If that process were started in Shabana Mahmood: A review is an opportunity for the knowledge that the intelligence could never be converted Parliament to take stock of how the regime has operated into evidence, applying for police bail would be a sham. over the course of one year, and to decide whether it I am not sure that many judges would let an individual wants to give the Home Secretary those powers to use get away with that. for another year. Obviously, Parliament is the right place to debate any new circumstances that bring about Richard Fuller rose— the need for more powers.

Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP) rose— Hazel Blears: Does my hon. Friend agree that the way to approach such issues is to consider the balance Shabana Mahmood: I am going to make some progress. of risk, rather than simply to adopt a fixed position, as I have been quite generous, and I will take some more the hon. Member for Cambridge (Dr Huppert) appears interventions a little later. to have done? We should then consider how to get to a On annual renewal, covered in new clause 7, there is a position in a series of steps. Clearly, the questions are symbolic and practical importance to Parliament asking these: what risk faces the nation from a terrorist threat, itself every year whether the powers that it has given the and what are the appropriate, proportionate powers to Home Secretary are still necessary and in holding the protect the public? That ought to be the analysis. We police and the Government to account for how those should not seek constantly to chip away at powers when powers are used. That is an important measure of that might expose us to a greater risk. checks and balances. As we discussed in Committee, it also concentrates the mind. It requires the police and Shabana Mahmood: I agree with my hon. Friend on everybody else to consider regularly whether we truly the starting point for debate. When Parliament considers need these powers, whether the risk is such that we such matters, it must consider the balance of risk and cannot do without them and whether some mechanism ask serious questions about how that risk is managed. might present itself that would enable more people to That should always be the starting point of hon. Members be brought within the criminal justice system rather as responsible parliamentarians when we consider than be kept outside it. exceptional powers that do not exist in other parts of Our debate in Committee featured the idea of our legal framework. We are also committed to saying exceptionalism—the idea that these powers are an that in an ideal world, we would not need such powers, exceptional part of our legal framework and should not but unfortunately, we are not in an ideal world— be permanent. Of course, the Bill did not originally [Interruption.] Does the right hon. Member for Haltemprice have the provisions of new clauses 3 and 4 in it, and I and Howden (Mr Davis) want to intervene? am grateful that the Government have made some movement and taken on board some of the arguments Mr David Davis indicated dissent. 63 Terrorism Prevention and 5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Terrorism Prevention and 64 Investigation Measures Bill Investigation Measures Bill Shabana Mahmood: The right hon. Gentleman does was working to in relation to the TPIMs regime, given not, so I shall press on. that we have the Olympics next year, which is a particular I spoke of the draft Bill that the Government published concern. He said: a few days ago, which seeks to introduce control order “To get the resources that we anticipate we need will take more powers by way of emergency legislation. That Bill, than a year, in terms of being able to get people trained and to get which we will discuss at length shortly, raises many the right equipment. Until we have got that, we will not be able to start to bed things in and see how it works and how it transpires. questions, and an early opportunity for Parliament to It also depends on how many people actually go on to the TPIMs take stock of the operation, implementation, practice regime and how many people come off it. There are a lot of and working of that regime will be welcome. inter-dependents there. The control order put people in the protect and prepare part of the Contest strategy. TPIMs moves them Richard Fuller: The hon. Lady is being extraordinarily back into the pursue element of the strategy, which is a slight paradox because it was only due to the failure to get sufficient generous in giving way. The question that I should like evidence to prosecute them that we moved them into the control to ask is from the perspective of the people who are order in the first place under control orders and similar restrictions. Such people He was asked further questions about resources by the have not been brought to trial and no evidence has been hon. and learned Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham presented to them to substantiate the reasons why they (Stephen Phillips). He asked why Mr Osborne was are under such restrictions. She is advocating annual saying that it would take a year for the new regime to reviews, and increases as well as decreases in powers, bed in, to which Mr Osborne replied: but has she considered the commentary on the mental health implications for the people who are subject to “I think I said it would take a year to procure and train control orders? In that regard, does she believe that sufficient additional assets before it would be ready to do that. We have to order some of the assets so that they are made in advance. some period of certainty for those people on how they To train a surveillance officer and then have them fully able to will be treated will be welcome? operate in a challenging environment probably takes at least 12 months before they are deployable. Once they are deployable, Shabana Mahmood: The first part of the hon. they have to work within the environment under a new set of Gentleman’s intervention makes my point for me. This regimes that will need to bed in.”––[Official Report, Terrorism Prevention and Investigation Measures Public Bill Committee, is about the balance of risk. It is in the interests of those 21 June 2011; c.9-10.] who are under control orders for Parliament to look at such measures at regular intervals rather than once That important evidence is the reason I moved the every five years. His intervention supports rather than amendment in Committee and why I tabled amendment 20 goes against my point. for debate today. I was extremely concerned about the position on resources. The evidence from Mr Osborne was obviously stark, and it raised in my mind the Richard Fuller rose— spectre that if the Bill were passed by the end of this year, as we anticipate it will be, we would create a Shabana Mahmood: I shall make some progress, because concerning situation: the additional resources required I am about to wind-up on new clause 7. to meet the increased risk might not be deployable, and The Minister spoke of the comments made by my if they are, it seems they might be only partially ready. right hon. Friend the Member for Wythenshawe and That is not, to my mind, a satisfactory state of affairs. Sale East (Paul Goggins) on Second Reading. My right The amendment therefore seeks to prevent the Bill from hon. Friend spoke powerfully on the merit of reaching a coming into force until the resources are online and settled position on such measures, but I should tell the would put in place a mechanism by which to get agreement Minister that given what has happened in the past few between the national co-ordinator and the Home Secretary days, we are clearly not at a settled position on the Bill. on the additional resources required and to get them In fact, the Government unsettled matters further by ready and online. introducing the draft Bill a few days ago. For that Mr Sutcliffe: My hon. Friend, who is making a reason, the Opposition believe that an annual renewal forceful point, will remember Lord Carlile’s evidence to measure is merited and needed now more than ever, and the Committee about the cost of surveillance. He said we shall later seek to press new clause 7 to a Division. that the new TPIMs regime will increase the amount of I am grateful for the Minister’s comments on human surveillance and that we could be talking about amendment 20, which is in my name and those of my £18 million. We have not heard anything from the right hon. and hon. Friends. He updated the House and Minister about Lord Carlile’s evidence. Is that another told us from the Dispatch Box that the police say that area of concern for her? they will be able to meet the increased risks that we face under TPIMs with the additional resources, but I am Shabana Mahmood: I am grateful to my hon. Friend afraid that I do not feel reassured by what he said, and for his intervention. I entirely agree that the additional we need to consider the matter in greater detail in the costs of the TPIMs regime are of concern, given the House this evening. much lower cost of the control order regime, and I By way of background, I should add that amendment 20 invite the Minister to explain how that correlates with began life in Committee, as the Minister noted, and was the draft emergency legislation. Presumably, the additional introduced following evidence given to the Committee resources might not be required in those circumstances. by Deputy Assistant Commissioner Osborne, the national We need greater clarity about the costs that might arise co-ordinator for counter-terrorist investigations. It is in that situation. important to consider his evidence in detail. He was When I asked the Minister, in relation to amendment 20, asked by my right hon. Friend the Member for Salford about the one year that it takes to train up a surveillance and Eccles (Hazel Blears) about the time scales that he officer, he said, “We’re not just looking at human resources”, 65 Terrorism Prevention and 5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Terrorism Prevention and 66 Investigation Measures Bill Investigation Measures Bill but it is clear that Mr Osborne—this is why I read out appreciate that some of that information might be his responses—was not just talking about human resources constrained, but surely it would not be too difficult to either. He was talking about hardware, software and allay any fears that the House might have about the money resources too, and it was his considered opinion, time that it takes for such resources to be either trained put on the record of the House, that all those resources up or procured and developed. would take more than one year to come online. I have to say that the Minister’s explanation—that Mr Mark Field: The hon. Lady is making a fair case, not only are we looking at surveillance officers, but but in view of the fact that we are now 11 months in somehow this process can be managed with technology advance of the Olympic games, which is clearly the big as well as anything else—does not give us the reassurance cloud in the sky when it comes to these issues, is she that we need that all the resources will be available, a really suggesting that we should keep to the control point that I put to the Minister in Committee as well. I order regime until the Olympics are behind us and only am not a very technical person—I often describe myself then change, or does she think that there is any chance as a “tech-know-nothing”. However, after we have worked of the procurement that she is looking for taking place out what hardware is required, it will then need to be within that time frame, such that the process will be designed, procured and made, a process that I imagine “online”, as she puts it, before July next year? would also take some time and could not happen overnight. Again, we do not have any clarity that those assets will Shabana Mahmood: The short answer is yes. We have be ready by the time the Bill comes into force either. retained the control order regime until the end of this year, which was a decision that the coalition Government 5.45 pm took to give themselves a chance to bring forward their We are in a position where Parliament is being asked legislation. I do not think that an amendment that seeks to pass a Bill when there are real concerns about whether to make that legislation better—or at least allay concerns the increased risk that it poses can be met by the that the public might have about the dangers that it Government and the police. Our amendments do not poses—should somehow mean that we dump control seek to frustrate the purpose of the Bill, but to reassure orders and just have a gap. We could quite easily carry the House and, perhaps more importantly, the public on with control orders until the new resources were that we will be ready for the new regime when it comes ready to be deployed, which is exactly what the amendment online. They therefore offer a practical way to try to envisages. deal with some of the issues that have been raised in Committee and which will be of great concern to the Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con): I have been a watcher. public. I never thought that I would say this, but I can It takes a heck of a long time to train someone to pray in aid Lord Howard, the former Home Secretary, become proficient in watching an individual. I fully in support of my case for amendment 20. He, too, gave support what the hon. Lady is saying. We cannot just evidence to the Committee, saying: do this overnight; it is going to take a long time. I am “If the police evidence is that it will take them a year to really worried by what the Minister said about the prepare, that evidence has to be respected. Obviously, it is important Metropolitan police saying that they could do all this that arrangements remain in place until the moment arrives when the new regime can be effectively introduced.”––[Official Report, now, when Mr Osborne said that it would take a minimum Terrorism Prevention and Investigation Measures Public Bill Committee, of 12 months to establish. 21 June 2011; c. 27, Q84.] That is exactly the purpose of amendment 20. Shabana Mahmood: In that case, I hope that the hon. Gentleman will support amendment 20. He has made Hazel Blears: I, too, think that my hon. Friend is my case for me. making a powerful case on resources. This is a practical issue, irrespective of the principal differences that we Bob Stewart: May I do so while holding my nose? might have on different sides of the House. Does she regard the assurances that the Minister has received from the Metropolitan police as sufficient in the Shabana Mahmood: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman circumstances? Would she welcome some written evidence for giving me that indication. I am also grateful for his from the Minister and the Metropolitan police about support. He was of course a fellow member of the the time that it will take to procure those resources, Public Bill Committee. both human and electronic, and the period in which they can be ready to meet the increased risk caused by Mr McFadden: Does not this go to the heart of the the TPIM legislation? issue? It is risky enough to legislate, as the Government are proposing, to give terrorist suspects increased freedom Shabana Mahmood: I entirely endorse my right hon. of movement and increased access to mobile phones Friend’s comments. The House needs much more detail, and the internet, and then to admit, as the Government given that there now seems to be a big difference between do, that this will put increased pressure on the police what Deputy Assistant Commissioner Osborne told us and the security services, without also trying to implement in Committee and what the Minister is telling the House the legislation before the police and security services are today. A written explanation needs to be put before the fully ready to cope with the increased risk. Does my House when we are working out whether we buy this hon. Friend agree that, if the Government do not new line that the resources will, in fact, be ready. If that produce better evidence of the capability of the police information is forthcoming, it is important that it should and security services to meet this increased risk, they be about not just the human resources, but the hardware, will be adding irresponsibility to increased risk for the software and other assets, as well as the money. I public? 67 Terrorism Prevention and 5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Terrorism Prevention and 68 Investigation Measures Bill Investigation Measures Bill Shabana Mahmood: I entirely endorse my right hon. convicted of an offence as though they have been so Friend’s point, which reminds me that, under the Bill, convicted. In some cases, people who have been found access to electronic communications must be provided not guilty in a court of law have immediately had a to suspects. One of the justifications for that is that the control order slapped on them. There is a risk involved suspects will be monitored in that way, and the equipment in such cases. We have also heard the slightly lazy will be provided by the Home Office. Presumably, some assumption that all the people who are suspects in these kind of software or hardware wiring will be needed to circumstances are dangerous. We know that some people enable the suspects to be traced, and to listen in on have been completely exonerated. For example, Cerrie conversations. Again, I do not believe that those technical Bullivant, to whom I spoke earlier today, was not a risk, assets could be procured overnight, especially given the yet he was punished as though he was, for a very long different kinds of asset that might be needed to deal time. Instead, however, I will talk about the purpose of with different kinds of risk. sunset clauses.

Richard Fuller: I fear that Opposition Members might Mr David Davis: Before my hon. Friend leaves the be trying to scare Members of Parliament when there is issue of risk, may I suggest that we need to tackle this no real justification for doing so. In Committee, the matter head-on? During the course of the control order hon. Member for Bradford South (Mr Sutcliffe) spoke regime, the number of people of interest to the security of increased threats, saying: services started at 1,600 and grew by 25% per annum, “I visited some of our prisons and I saw some of the terrorists until the numbers rose above 4,000 and the agencies got who had been prosecuted, and they really are scary people. Next too embarrassed to announce them. Does my hon. year, a large number of them will be released on licence, and they Friend accept that the control order regime and everything will be back in society, so the threat is always there.”––[Official that went with it were so heavy-handed that they actually Report, Terrorism Prevention and Investigation Measures Public increased radicalisation rather than reducing it? Bill Committee, 23 June 2011; c. 55.] Does not that show that our police and security forces Dr Huppert: My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. are constantly having to meet these threats? If the police That speaks volumes about how ineffective control orders feel comfortable managing people who have been convicted and the whole panoply of tools used by the previous and are coming out of prison, this modification of Government were. It also highlights why the points control orders into TPIMs is a minor issue in comparison. about the extra resources needed by the police do not The hon. Lady is building this issue up into something really matter. If there are 1,600 or 2,000 or 3,000 people that it is not. of great interest to the security services, I hope that the services are occasionally looking at them; otherwise, Shabana Mahmood: I entirely disagree with the hon. their interest cannot be very great. If those people are Gentleman. In fact, he almost makes my point for me. actually dangerous, resources should be available as the The police do an incredible job of trying to protect us extra resources to deal with a relatively small handful of from the serious risks that we face, not only from the people are a drop in the ocean. individuals who are or have been subjected to a control order, but from the many hundreds, possibly thousands, Jeremy Corbyn: I agree with the hon. Gentleman’s more who are of interest to them in their investigations point about control orders, but will the TPIMs regime into potential terrorism offences. The risk is always be any better? there, which is why we had to bring in the control order regime and why we believe those powers are necessary. Dr Huppert: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his Elements of the Bill decrease those measures in such a excellent question. My short answer is yes; my longer way as to increase the risk. We are told that the risk can answer is: by a bit. This is not the solution that I would be mitigated by the additional resources, but it cannot most like to see, but it is a step in the right direction. I be eliminated. We have a real fear that those additional wish that we could go further, and perhaps the other resources will not be ready by the time the Bill comes place will be more able to achieve that than we are here. into force. For that reason, amendment 20 would reassure Perhaps the more enlightened Labour peers will take the public; its purpose is really no more than that. the hon. Gentleman’s perspective on this matter, rather than that taken by those on his Front Bench. Dr Huppert: Will the hon. Lady give way? I move now to the subject of this group of amendments, which deal with sunset clauses. I argued in Committee Shabana Mahmood: No, I am about to finish my that there were four reasons for having such clauses. speech. One relates to debating the issue in question every year; I note that the Government have made some movement another is about having a vote every year. As we have in the right direction in relation to the review and the said, that method has not turned out to be very effective. sunset clause, but I do not believe that that goes far It has been very much a token gesture. Although it is enough. We need the extra check and balance that nice to see it in place, it has not really delivered. We still would be provided by annual renewal, so I am minded have the ability to debate this matter at any time, to press new clause 7 to a vote, and unless the Minister particularly in the light of the Government’s new approach gives us further reassurance about the resources, I shall to Back-Bench debates, if some other change takes also be minded to press amendment 20 to the vote. place. Similarly, the Government could get rid of TPIMs at any time, as could any future Government. Five years Dr Huppert: It is tempting to spend a while talking is a maximum, not a minimum. The annual review has about risk, as that is a theme that lies behind this simply not been an effective tool, which is a great debate. Opposition Members have not mentioned the shame. It does not work very well, and Parliament should risk we create by treating people who have not been look at how effective it is at doing things like that. 69 Terrorism Prevention and 5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Terrorism Prevention and 70 Investigation Measures Bill Investigation Measures Bill The Government think that the review provisions are of torture in Libya. We have heard some astonishing a really good thing. I would like to see them happening stories; I look forward to hearing the Minister’s comments seriously and in detail, but the level of review that has about this either now or later, if he has time to check the happened under this Government cannot happen every facts. year. It did not do so in the past, to that level. There was The other purpose of a sunset clause is to flag up the a quick look, and a quick renewal. That is not what we fact that something is exceptional and should not be a want. We want to look underneath what is happening, regular part of our law. We do not have a sunset clause rather than simply taking the easy option. on theft and we do not have one on the vast majority of I have asked the Minister and the shadow Minister things because they are standard. This is an exceptional whether, if either of them is in the next Government, measure and we need to flag it up. That is why I am so they will ensure that a proper review is carried out. If I pleased that the Government have accepted the argument. am in the next Government, I will do my very best to We should be very concerned when we step outside the ensure that that happens—[HON.MEMBERS: “Hear, hear!”] normal bounds. I am delighted to hear that that has support on both I disagree entirely with the comments made by the sides of the House; we will have to see what happens. I hon. Member for Bradford South (Mr Sutcliffe), who I would do my best to ensure that there was a review that believed to be a shadow Minister but who appears to be moved us closer to the position that I would like—namely, sitting on the very Back Benches. I do not know what a lower-risk solution that was also better for civil liberties. that says about his position and standing. [Interruption.] I hope he will move towards the front rather than Mr Mark Field: Does the hon. Gentleman not realise withdraw to the back. I withdraw any aspersions I may that this gets to the nub of the problem—that there is a have cast on the hon. Gentleman in what I said; I was distinction between would-be or former members of the merely surprised by his location. In Committee, he said: Executive, whose view is almost “If only you knew what “Unfortunately, there are times when people have to be outside I know now”, and many other parliamentarians and the legal framework.”––[Official Report, Terrorism Prevention indeed the public outside? That disconnect is one of the and Investigation Measures Public Bill Committee, 23 June 2011; most dangerous elements of the entire debate. c. 57.] I disagree with him completely and utterly on that. I 6pm think we have a legal framework for a reason, and once we start saying that people should be outside it, we are Dr Huppert: The hon. Gentleman is right. I have on very dangerous grounds. always been uncomfortable when someone says, “I know better, so just do exactly what I say.”I am never comfortable with that as a form of argument, partly because it is Hazel Blears: Throughout the Bill’s passage through very hard to rebut. In many ways, it is the central Committee, my respect for the hon. Gentleman grew. argument behind control orders—when the state tells someone, “I know what you’ve done, but I’m not going Mark Tami (Alyn and Deeside) (Lab): Mine didn’t! to tell you what it is or how I know; we’re just going to assume that you have done this.” Hazel Blears: Credit where it is due! I think the hon. Gentleman takes his own very principled position. He Mr David Davis rose— does not believe that Executive orders should be made in an administrative capacity but that we should use the Dr Huppert: I will take one more intervention, but criminal justice system for every eventuality. That is a then I would like to make some progress. principled viewpoint and a perfectly legitimate one to hold. I would, however, press the hon. Gentleman, Mr Davis: I hope that the hon. Gentleman will forgive because some of the language his party has used is me for intervening a second time, but on this point of redolent of a totalitarian regime. We have heard about “We know better than you”, the real problem with internal exile, house arrest and goodness knows what. reviews has not been the timing so much as the quality There is judicial oversight at every step of the process of the information provided. We know that there have relating to control orders. There are judges of the High been miscarriages of justice, as the hon. Gentleman has Court and the Court of Appeal, special advocates; and mentioned, but these are never mentioned in any reviews. the people subject to the orders have to be given the gist We also know from the evidence of the last few days of the case against them. We have had a series of legal that the control orders were used in effect to immobilise judgments. We are not operating in a kind of totalitarian Libyan dissidents to suit our foreign policy in dealing regime without intense judicial scrutiny. Surely the hon. with Colonel Gaddafi. This is the sort of thing we in the Gentleman would agree that this legislation has been House should know about; the failure is not about time, subject to more litigation, examination, test, test and but about the quality of the information provided to us. test than any other legislation in our legal system. His principled position is perfectly arguable, but I hope that Dr Huppert: Indeed. I thank the right hon. Gentleman he is not saying that this country does not have intense, for his comments. He pre-empts something I was planning high-level judicial scrutiny of these very contentious to say later about the Libyan issue, which is a very and important matters. serious one, as it seems that the Government might have acted perhaps using some of these tools on behalf of Dr Huppert: I thank the right hon. Lady for her kind another power. I hope that the Minister will be able to comments. It is clear that we come from very different assure that that has never happened, and also assure us principled positions; we disagree at the level of principle, later than none of the evidence under which people not just at the level of detail. She is absolutely right to have been subject to control orders has come as a result say that there is indeed a lot of judicial oversight and a 71 Terrorism Prevention and 5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Terrorism Prevention and 72 Investigation Measures Bill Investigation Measures Bill [Dr Huppert] are nonetheless a last-ditch attempt to keep the orders going for a few more months or a couple more years or number of checks and balances, not all agreed to entirely a little bit further. I do not want that. voluntarily by the previous Government. The judges sometimes had to take quite active steps about the gist Mr Sutcliffe rose— of the case. I do not think special advocates provide the best way of doing this; I would like people to know what Dr Huppert: I am delighted to give way to the shadow they are accused of. I will agree to the right hon. Lady’s Minister. request and try to remember to talk about “internal exile with judicial oversight”. I will try to remember to Mr Sutcliffe: I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving use that full phrase if it would please her. way. Is he satisfied by the Minister’s response about the assurances from the Metropolitan police? The hon. These powers are exceptional. They are not what we Gentleman will accept that this was a key point that we want. We should strive harder to find ways that fit all raised in Committee. Is he prepared to accept the within the legal framework to make this case. I would Minister’s words as outlined? Would he not prefer to see have liked to talk later in great detail about police bail, some written evidence or some written response from but I am afraid I shall not be able to. I still think it is the the Met to confirm that it is or can be ready? right way forward. [Interruption.] It sounds as though there is some support from others. I hope that their Dr Huppert: I thank the shadow Minister for his Lordships will have a chance to look at that. I still think comments and apologise again for any criticism I might we could make that system work extremely well. have made earlier about his seating. I do trust the I am pleased to see the Government new clauses 3 Minister on this one. I am sure he would not have told and 4 and consequential Government amendments 11 the House something that the Metropolitan police had and 13. I am delighted that the Government have accepted not told him was the case. I am sure he will be able to the need for a sunset clause. I thank the Minister for confirm that. I do have faith that the Metropolitan doing that. It is always a great pleasure when the police have said this, if the Minister says it did. Government take up something that a Back-Bench I see amendments 8 and 20 as an attempt to keep control Member has argued for. I am very pleased indeed. orders going for that last gasp. The gasp is not very I deal now with new clause 7, proposed by the hon. long; it might not be a full five or 10-year gasp, but it is Member for Birmingham, Ladywood (Shabana still a gasp and one gasp too many. I shall not support Mahmood). She has tried to come up with this sort of those amendments. amending provision on a number of occasions. It is I believe we have made progress. The Government good to see that there are no obvious flaws in this one, amendments take us a stage further. I am delighted to but I just disagree with it. I would love to have a proper, support them and look forward to hearing other carefully thought-through review every single year, but contributions to the debate. I do not think it will happen. It has never happened in the past and I believe it is more valuable to have a Keith Vaz: It is a real pleasure to follow the hon. serious piece of work, seriously looking at whether we Member for Cambridge (Dr Huppert), a member of the could reduce the amount of extraordinary legislation, Home Affairs Select Committee, and to wish him well carried out every five years than it is to have a token in his ministerial career. I know that the hon. Member review every year. I respect the hon. Lady’s position in for South Ribble (Lorraine Fullbrook) and I, who are wanting a review every year, but I disagree with her in with him every Tuesday, will want that to happen as that she wants to revise it upwards every year— soon as possible—but not before tomorrow, when, as he knows, we start our inquiry into the London riots. Shabana Mahmood: Or downwards. In four days’ time, on its 10th anniversary, we shall Dr Huppert: Indeed. I definitely disagree with the remember the events of 9/11. The weekend newspapers idea of it going up every year. I accept her principles, as were full of terrible accounts of what happened that I say, but I think that doing it properly every five years day and of the stories of the survivors. The House discusses is better. terrorism and its prevention in a measured, careful and I disagree in principle, however, with amendment 8, sober manner, and I hope we shall do so today as we which has not yet been spoken to, but may be later, and consider amendments and debate important issues. amendment 20. These are, I am afraid, a last-ditch I was not a member of the Committee that considered attempt to keep control orders going for as long as the Bill, and—mea culpa on behalf of the Home Affairs possible. We do not want that to happen. We do not Committee—I am afraid that our agenda has been so want control orders, and all the problems associated full over the past two years that we have not had an with them, lasting longer than they have to. They should opportunity to scrutinise this aspect of policy properly. be stopped as soon as possible. We hope to make up for that next Tuesday, when we begin our inquiry into the roots of radicalism. The right Shabana Mahmood: Does the hon. Gentleman recognise hon. Member for Haltemprice and Howden (Mr Davis) that the amendments, as drafted, envisage that the talked of the need to understand why people become TPIMs regime will come into force and that they seek radicals. Next week our Committee will take evidence only to delay it until the resources are ready? They do from the chairman of the United States committee on not seek to keep control orders for ever more. homeland security, Congressman Peter King. We hope to be able to present to the House in six months’ Hazel Blears: I accept that these are delays; they are time—this will be a long and weighty inquiry—our not about permanently keeping the orders. We will, of views on what constitute the causes of terrorism, and course, see how the vote works out. The amendments on how we can deal with them. 73 Terrorism Prevention and 5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Terrorism Prevention and 74 Investigation Measures Bill Investigation Measures Bill Jeremy Corbyn: I welcome the inquiry that is to be the Minister—and I do not seek to make a party-political undertaken by my right hon. Friend’s Committee. May point, but I think that the Minister will feel much more I ask him also to consider the fact that the country has able to defend the Government’s proposals if he has the had renewable emergency anti-terrorism legislation for comfort of knowing the Metropolitan police have revised 37 years, that the legislation has always been renewed their view. six-monthly, annually or after whatever period has been We realise that there has been some change at the top. specified, and that on each of those occasions we have The former head of counter-terrorism, Mr Yates—who, moved further from the principles of absolute equality of course, ought to have been writing the letters and transparency before the law and further towards a concerned—is no longer in his post. There is now a new degree of Executive power? Does my right hon. Friend head of counter-terrorism, Cressida Dick, whom we not think that it is time to turn the clock back in favour have not had the opportunity of bringing before the of openness and transparency, through the use of criminal Committee, although we hope to do so during our law and criminal law alone? inquiry into the roots of radicalism. However, I think that, to protect himself and to reassure Parliament, the Keith Vaz: I am sure that we shall touch on that Minister ought to receive a letter of comfort. If he does subject. We are, of course, primarily concerned with the not write to ask whether what DAC Osborne said has question of why people become radicals and what system been replaced by new assurances, I shall probably do so makes them behave as they have behaved, but the way in myself. which legislation is—in my hon. Friend’s view—rushed through Parliament might well be one of our considerations. Like the hon. Member for Cambridge, I have a great deal of time for the Minister. I trust and value what he I think it healthy for the House to have heard the says, and I do not believe that he would come to the comments of my hon. Friend, of the hon. Member for Dispatch Box and say that he had received assurances Bedford (Richard Fuller) and of the hon. Member for from the Metropolitan police if he had not. However, Cities of London and Westminster (Mr Field), who some of us need to be convinced. Mr Osborne is, after observed that when Parliament discusses these matters all, the deputy head of counter-terrorism in the the measures concerned go through on the nod. I believe Metropolitan police, which is quite a senior position. If that the role of the Opposition—my hon. Friend the he has given evidence that has subsequently had to be Member for Birmingham, Ladywood (Shabana Mahmood) adapted because of whatever has happened in the last did a very good job in this regard—is to scrutinise and few weeks, let us have confirmation of that letter. If the probe the Government, and that is exactly what happened Minister says that he is prepared to take such action, when this Minister was the shadow Minister. Perhaps he will reassure me and, I believe, other Members. we regret not being more robust on issues of this kind when we are in opposition, but I hope that that will happen My final point relates to the need for us to be able to now. The five-year period for the review is probably too scrutinise anti-terrorism legislation without feeling nervous long; we need to consider it earlier and much more about doing so. Let me give credit to my hon. Friend the objectively, and that might be one of the issues that we Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn), who has can examine as the debate progresses. been in the House for longer than I have. Even under a I have three points to make. The first concerns the Labour Government, he and I went into opposite Division process that the Government appear to have adopted. I Lobbies to vote on anti-terrorism legislation, because hope that the Minister will reassure me about something he was prepared to scrutinise and to ask his questions. about which he did not manage to reassure me when I That is really important. probed him earlier, namely the role of Lord Macdonald. Only the hon. Member for Beckenham (Bob Stewart), I understand that Lord Macdonald was appointed by given his vast experience in the security services and the the Government to review legislation. As a former armed forces, will have the kind of practical experience Director of Public Prosecutions and a distinguished that is necessary in cases such as this, and he will talk on lawyer, he is someone whom I think we ought to consult the basis of that experience. I do not mean to insult as we present new proposals. Has he seen the Bill, and, anyone in the House, but the rest of us are mere if so, what were his comments on it and on the changes politicians, and we do not have that kind of experience. that have been made in the last few days? It is obviously valuable to hear from people such as the The same applies to Lord Carlile, who gave evidence hon. Gentleman. That is why it is important for there that was diametrically opposed to that of Lord Macdonald. to be proper scrutiny and for evidence that is given to He wants to keep control orders, but, as colleagues will Select Committees or other Committees of the House recall, when he appeared before the Select Committee to be accurate, so that when we decide on the legislation he proposed a three-tier structure that he felt could we can be above party politics in dealing with terrorism replace them. Will the Minister enlighten the House on issues, as I hope we always can be. the process that was adopted, and confirm that there We should be mindful of the fact that whatever has been widespread consultation with the very people— resources we put into counter-terrorism, there are those Lord Carlile and Lord Macdonald—who the Government outside who have the time, the space and, in some cases, believed could contribute to the discussion? the fanaticism to be able to challenge what we do, and we should always be extremely cautious in dealing with 6.15 pm issues of this kind. The second issue arises from what was said by my right hon. Friend the Member for Salford and Eccles Paul Goggins: it is a pleasure to follow my right hon. (Hazel Blears). I refer to the evidence given to the Friend the Member for Leicester East (Keith Vaz), who Committee about resources. I do not want to dance always speaks with great wisdom and judgment on around the subject—I will be quite straightforward with these issues, and who chairs the Home Affairs Committee. 75 Terrorism Prevention and 5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Terrorism Prevention and 76 Investigation Measures Bill Investigation Measures Bill [Paul Goggins] serious crimes are coming out of prison. I have had answers from Ministry of Justice Ministers showing I do not intend to detain the House long. We have that 45 convicted terrorists will have a release date in already had a good debate on the amendments. The 2010-12, or at least that is the earliest release date. Add Minister quoted remarks that I made on Second Reading; those potential 45 to the potential 12 and all their he quoted them accurately, and I stand by them. I associates, and we have a substantial risk. To take that believe that the terrorist threat that we face is one that risk when we could delay the implementation of this we are likely to face for a considerable time, that the Bill is a risk too far. emphasis should be on trying to reach a consensus on what we should do about it, and that, if we can reach Bob Stewart: Surely anyone under a control order or such a consensus, we should make provisions and make under TPIMs is under surveillance. It would be very them permanent. silly for someone under surveillance to do something I do not think for a minute that making provisions related to terrorism because it might be found out. I permanent means that everyone will forget about them; would have thought that, once someone was under far from it. There would still be an opportunity for TPIMs or under control orders, their chances of being Government reviews if Ministers felt that that was an active terrorist were hugely reduced. Does the right appropriate. My right hon. Friend would still have his hon. Gentleman agree? Select Committee inquiries, and he might well pick counter-terrorism as one of the issues to be discussed. I Paul Goggins: I commend the hon. Gentleman for his venture to suggest that no one would silence my hon. earlier comments on surveillance, the need to ensure Friend the Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn) that people are properly trained and the need not to if there were not an annual debate on the renewal of pretend that we could introduce the level of skill that is counter-terrorism provisions. All those things would required in a very short time. It takes time to train an still happen—and, as the hon. Member for Cambridge individual. There is no perfect solution, because someone (Dr Huppert) pointed out, legislation could be repealed who is under surveillance can, if they are very skilled, at any time. That option is always open to the Government. slip that surveillance until such time as the people Therefore, in saying that I believe that such provisions carrying out the surveillance catch up with them. should be made permanent, I do not believe that we should take our eye off the ball or stop considering and Bob Stewart: Some people have got away from control scrutinising those things, although I tend to agree with orders, and that is likely to happen again under TPIMs. Lord Carlile that the sense that annual renewal is part Paul Goggins: If the hon. Gentleman is referring to of the scrutiny process is a “bit of a fiction”. people who have absconded from their control order, It is evident, however, that we do not have consensus I think he will remember from our discussions in Committee on the Bill. In fact, I venture to suggest that the gap that that relates principally to the very early days of between us is larger now than when we started to consider control orders. From recollection, I think that there has the Bill. We have seen the issues that are at stake, so the not been an abscondence for four years, and that related differences between us are quite substantial. largely to foreign nationals who were the subject of I welcome the steps that the Minister has taken to control orders. However, he made a powerful point bring forward the opportunity for review and renewal earlier on the need to ensure that people are properly by each Parliament. I also welcome the amendment trained to carry out surveillance. proposed my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Given the toxic mix that I described, on 11 August Ladywood (Shabana Mahmood) that calls for annual I raised with the Prime Minister the possibility of renewal. Even more important, I support her delaying this Bill—certainly some elements of it in amendment 20, which would not allow any of the relation to relocation. He said that he would look provisions to come into operation before the resources “carefully and closely” at what I said. I have written to were clearly in place and the police and Security Service him since. I have not yet had a reply but I hope that I were signed up to that. will soon. I will look carefully at his argument if he, as My amendment 8 is intended to be a practical the Minister earlier suggested he would, sticks to the amendment to give absolute clarity in relation to the Government’s current position, because I think that implementation and commencement of the Bill. My that is a risk too far. concern throughout the passage of the Bill—on Second Reading, during the Committee stage, during the summer I am happy to pay tribute to the principled position and still now—is that the Bill weakens protection. It is that the hon. Member for Cambridge holds and sticks not as robust as what went before it. When we add that to doggedly. It is different from the principled position to the likely threat and risks that we will face next year, that I hold but, because he is consistent it allows us to the year of the Olympics, which we celebrate and want have a good debate. He accused me of using amendment 8 to be a great success, we have a toxic mix that could put as a last-ditch attempt to keep control orders going. I lives at risk. humbly put it to him that that is not the case. I believe Let us look at the facts. We know that 12 individuals that the risks associated with the early introduction of are subject to control orders. We know from the Minister’s this weakened legislation, in a year of great risk, is too latest report to the House that three of those individuals much of a risk to take. I join hon. Members on both sides already reside in the Metropolitan police area. We do of the House when I put public safety above all else. not know where the other nine would call their home, but we suspect that a large number of them are from the Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP): Listening to the debate London area, so that would be a huge move back to and arguments about the comparative merits and demerits London by people who are very high risk individuals of TPIMs compared with control orders, and listening indeed, when terrorists who have been convicted of to the exchanges on whether a sunset clause for five years 77 Terrorism Prevention and 5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Terrorism Prevention and 78 Investigation Measures Bill Investigation Measures Bill is better than annual review and renewal, I am reminded redress that offers them. I agree with the hon. Gentleman, of what Talleyrand is meant to have said about Voltaire however, about the issue of our pretending that annual and Robespierre: when I think of either, I prefer the review will somehow of itself offer comfort to people other. We are all caught in a situation where there are under these orders in that it might result in their being clearly problems with control orders, but we should be reprieved from their exigencies. I would not give that under no illusions: there will be serious problems with false comfort or promise, and nor should we. TPIMs too—problems of principle and of practice. Based on the experience that we have all had of the May I deal first with the sunset clause and the question many previous annual renewals, the hon. Gentleman of renewal? I have a lot of sympathy with the argument also makes a valid point in saying that the Chamber of the hon. Member for Cambridge (Dr Huppert) and might take its responsibilities in this regard somewhat others that the practice of Parliament in relation to lightly, but let us therefore be exposed to condemnation annual renewal and the Prevention of Terrorism Act 2005 for such dereliction of duty and for not turning up has not exactly inspired huge confidence in the robustness every year to consider renewals duly and properly, of that challenge or the thoroughness of that review. rather than pretend that it is sufficient to do that on a But just because Parliament has perhaps had a habit five-yearly basis. Considering the issues at stake under of being derelict in its duty in relation to annual reviews, this Bill, the attendance for the current debate is not that does not give us the right to dismiss the case for particularly unimpressive in comparison with the likely subjecting measures as exceptional as these are to annual attendance, which the hon. Gentleman indicts, for an review. annual review debate. We are always told that one Parliament should not We should not kid ourselves about the false merits of bind another. When it comes to exceptional measures, a five-year sunset clause as opposed to an annual review, one Parliament simply should not discharge itself from and nor should those of us who might vote in a Division due consideration. It is not enough for us to say, “If we to keep a version of annual review delude ourselves go for the five-year sunset clause in the absence of about the extent of the impact of annual reviews. However, annual reviews, Members such as the hon. Member for annual reviews might ensure that the various other Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn) and other concerned parliamentary means of scrutiny that exist—whether Members will be diligent enough to create opportunities through the Backbench Business Committee or Select for themselves by way of Adjournment debates or use Committees—are used to condition such reviews and, of the Backbench Business Committee to subject these perhaps, explore more of the alternatives. things to review.” There are things that we as a Parliament In the context of our deliberations today, I and should hold in common responsibility. The due protection others regret the fact that good amendments that were of civil liberty, alongside the due protection of public submitted on police bail and the conditions that could safety, are among them. be attached to that are not available for us to discuss. I accept that these measures—whether control orders Through discussing them, we would have been able to or TPIMs—will be put through, whether control orders consider possible restrictions in cases where the police or TPIMs. Where there are exceptional measures that so far have only limited evidence that is not amenable to depart from the normal criminal law and give executive their taking the case to full prosecution. For such cases, power to use secret intelligence and to deploy strict there are means within the standard criminal law that controls on an individual’s freedom, this Parliament can be deployed and developed, and amendments were should not just say, “We are content to let that run for tabled that offered that option. Through having annual five years and see where we stand thereafter.”If Parliament reviews, some such alternatives might build up more of is going to approve these measures, it should at least a head of steam. I am not saying we need annual give itself the duty to look again in a year to see whether reviews in the same style as in the past, but if we were to they are still needed in this form or whether there should use annual reviews and the other parliamentary means be improvements. now available to us, we could make more of this system. Focusing now on the substance of the Bill, control 6.30 pm orders are a poor tool and a crude weapon, but whereas Richard Fuller: Annual review is just a veneer; to see TPIMs might appear to be softer, even when looked that, we need only consider the number of Members at through the bubblewrap of all the claims that the present to debate it, and I also believe that it is always Government make for this Bill, they are also a poor tool whipped through by the Government party. The people and a crude weapon. Some of us have experience of under these control orders have never had the advantage how counter-terrorism measures can be deployed in of having been brought to a proper trial, and what they counter-productive ways. They can act as grist to the want is some certainty. They want certainty that this mill of those who would radicalise others and try to Parliament will handle its responsibilities thoughtfully spread subversion and dissident tendencies. They can and thoroughly, and that would require conducting a also be used in ways that get in the way of good police thorough review that could then be used to advise the work, and good police interface and engagement with Government and inform Parliament in having a real communities whose sympathies and confidence are essential debate. Does the hon. Gentleman not accept that that in holding the line against terrorist and subversive would be a major difference? tendencies. We should therefore always tread lightly in relation to measures brought before us and offered as Mark Durkan: I am sorry to disagree with the hon. necessary and justified on the basis of countering terrorism. Gentleman, but I do not believe that it will be a tonic to Parliament should be particularly wary when we are the mental health of people under these orders if they given the assurance that these powers will not merely be know that Parliament will not seriously discuss the activated on the basis of secret intelligence by mysterious matter for another five years. I do not see what relief or Executive servants who may or may not appear before 79 Terrorism Prevention and 5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Terrorism Prevention and 80 Investigation Measures Bill Investigation Measures Bill [Mark Durkan] simply rebrands the very worst aspects of that failed regime. Despite the spin that was put out when the Bill Select Committees or anybody else in Parliament, because was presented, it contains the same fundamental mechanism there will be a degree of judicial oversight through posts of detention. Restrictions on a terrorist suspect while such as special advocates. We should be very wary further investigations continue will in many circumstances about being casual about any provisions that involve be reasonable and in the public interest, but what is so constant reference to words such as “special” and features offensive about control orders and their close relatives, such as “secret,” but that is precisely what we have in the TPIMs, is that both are imposed by the Executive, not TPIMs cocktail that is before us, and it is the same by a court. The continuation of a system of Government cocktail that was before us in relation to control orders. detention entirely outside the rule of law is neither We as a Parliament should at least be trying to provide effective nor just, and that is why I hope that, as the some sort of antidote to that, or diluting it through hon. Member for Foyle (Mark Durkan) said, we can putting in place the kind of scrutiny and challenge that make these annual reviews more rigorous. Perhaps we an annual review might provide. can use them in the way I imagine people on control I have listened to the arguments for and against these orders hope they will be used: for proper, rigorous amendments. I am not impressed by the Government’s scrutiny. arguments, including those of the Liberal Democrats, Today, I was in the same room as the hon. Member in favour of their proposed measures. I support the for Cambridge (Dr Huppert) and I, too, heard from Opposition on annual renewal, while not being under somebody on a control order. I heard some shocking any illusions that that will be any great shakes in itself, stories, and not just about that person waiting to sign in but I certainly do not support the Opposition in trying at a police station and being deemed to be two minutes to insinuate that somehow this legislation is dangerous late and therefore, supposedly, in breach of a control in itself and exposes us to new risks because it damages order. There were even more ridiculous accounts. People control orders. I do not believe control orders have been are being written to because they have not kept properly necessary or effective in the way that they have operated. clean the flat in which they are supposed to be in In fact, that has been dangerous in some regards, because internal detention. All kinds of ridiculous methods are sometimes both the terms and conditions of control being used to misuse the kind of tools being put before orders have been interpreted randomly and capriciously, us today. That is why, at the very least, we need the so that not only have people’s movements been restricted, option of an annual review. but people have been made amenable to prosecution, Everyone agrees that public safety requires that terrorists and the threat of it, for supposed breach of unreasonable be held in prison, but let us not forget that this regime is conditions. about terrorist suspects, some of whom will be entirely innocent—as, indeed, was the gentleman we spoke to Dr Huppert: The hon. Gentleman makes an important today. So, when considering these matters, which are point. Just today, I heard from somebody who used to central both to our security and to our core democratic be under a control order who said that there were a values, it is critical to remember that the concern is not number of such instances. On one occasion he had to whether we would like to see terrorists subject to punitive wait to sign in because there was a queue at the police restrictions, but whether we want a system that allows station, which led to him signing in two minutes late. innocent people to be treated outside the rule of law. It Does the hon. Gentleman agree that it is important that is not the action of a democratic state to hold someone this Government also look at such details, because without telling them what they are charged with. That is unreasonable conditions will make the whole system the definition of a living hell: to hold someone without completely ridiculous? telling them what the evidence against them is, leaving them with no opportunity to defend themselves. The Mark Durkan: Yes, I fully agree with that point about many past miscarriages of justice should weigh heavily the ridiculously pedantic and capricious use of conditions on our consideration of these matters. to get something on these people, when they demonstrate no greater threat than the fact that they find it difficult I am disappointed that the amendments I co-signed to cope with increasingly bizarre conditions. Therefore, with the hon. Member for Cambridge, on police bail, I do not hold the same brief as the Opposition for were not selected for debate. I realise that I cannot now control orders and the existing legislation, which is why debate them, but I would simply say that public safety is I do not support them on the amendments that suggest best assured when suspects are charged with a crime that control orders are somehow better, but neither do I and, if found guilty, imprisoned, rather than left in the fall for the Government’s false argument that TPIMs community to abscond—as a number of controlees are substantially different, because they involve a large have done—or, crucially, to act as an advertisement for part of the same mix as control orders. I never bought extremism because the regime is so unjust and impacts the product “I can’t believe it’s not butter” and I am not not just upon them but on their families and communities. going to buy “I can’t believe it’s not control orders.” Police bail would have enabled us to get away from that and properly to investigate people who are suspected of Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green): I want a crime, rather than leaving them in this no-man’s land, to speak briefly in favour of new clause 7 on annual which discredits us enormously as a country. reviews, but only because it is the least worst option on the table. It is deeply concerning that, despite pre-election Jeremy Corbyn: I had not planned to speak in this promises and having voted in the past against the massively section of the debate, but I was moved to do so by the controversial and now, I would argue, totally discredited eloquence of many of the contributions to it. We are control order regime, the coalition Government are debating TPIMs versus control orders, and the House trying to push through a Bill that in so many respects will have heard in my intervention on the hon. Member 81 Terrorism Prevention and 5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Terrorism Prevention and 82 Investigation Measures Bill Investigation Measures Bill for Cambridge (Dr Huppert) that I do not see a whole continuation of the idea that special laws require special lot of difference between them in terms of the underlying purposes, and special events require special deals. Hence, principles. I do not welcome TPIMs any more than I the Government under Prime Minister Blair exchanged welcome control orders. I voted against control orders a series of letters with a number of north African and in the last Parliament and will continue to do so in this other countries that allowed people to be removed to Parliament—and against TPIMs—for much the same those countries who had not necessarily committed any reasons as the hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion crime in this country—at least, it had not been proved (Caroline Lucas) has eloquently explained to the House. by a court—on the basis that those regimes would be We are getting into a debate about sunset clauses very nice and not torture people, despite their not versus a review. I would prefer a sunset clause on the having signed the UN convention against torture. We Bill; indeed, any special legislation should automatically should be very careful when we start undermining the have a very short sunset clause attached to it as a matter whole principle of our own law and international law, of course. We are passing major legislation that has a which is what we are doing with this legislation. huge effect on the civil liberties of everybody. However, I support the Opposition’s new clause 7, which at if we cannot have that—I do support the Opposition least gives us a 12-month review. It is not what I want Front Benchers in this respect—we should at least have but it is better than nothing, and it does give an opportunity a 12-month review. for a debate, although I should point out that I have sat One has to remember the atmosphere in this House through virtually every PTA review debate, some of in which we considered the question of special legislation. which were fairly perfunctory, to put it at its politest. The Prevention of Terrorism (Temporary Provisions) However, I am not prepared to vote for the other two Act 1974 was passed after the Birmingham pub bombings. provisions because they do not take account of the They were appalling, they were disgraceful, and in that degree of concern and opposition that exists to control fevered atmosphere the House passed that Act, which it orders and the accompanying legislation, or of the renewed at six-monthly intervals for a very long time. nature of the underlying case. If there is a threat to our The only time when anti-terrorism legislation was passed society—I am quite sanguine about this: there are threats, in an atmosphere of relative calm was in 2000. All other dangers and problems—there is criminal law to deal such Acts were passed in respect of some awful event with it. The ability exists to bring out criminal evidence somewhere. At those times, the House met in a fevered against the individuals who have perpetrated those acts. atmosphere and said that it was important that, because However, because we are so keen to protect the power of of the nature of what had happened—be it 9/11, 7/7, our security services and those who do not have to give Canary Wharf or any of a host of appalling incidents evidence or come out into the open, but whose information around the world or in this country—we had to pass the is so devastating against the individuals concerned, we legislation because it would deal with the problem. are taking a dangerous move. I know that a small number of people are affected at 6.45 pm present, but I see this as the slippery slope—away from what should be an open legal system in an open and Did the Prevention of Terrorism Act deal with the liberal democracy. That is why I am not happy about problem? No, it did not deal with it at all. It probably the TPIMs process, any more than I was about control generated more support for those who wish to commit orders. The very least that we can do is to review the those acts than anything else, because it criminalised legislation every 12 months. I would rather we did not large numbers of people who had committed no criminal produce this legislation at all, and instead promoted wrong. It criminalised large numbers of people who open criminal law to deal with criminal acts that damage became very frightened, just as subsequent anti-terror our society. legislation has done. We should therefore be very careful in what we are doing. James Brokenshire: Let me begin by addressing the My right hon. Friend the Member for Salford and points made by the hon. Member for Islington North Eccles (Hazel Blears) pointed out in an intervention (Jeremy Corbyn), who cut to the heart of a number of that there is judicial oversight over the 2005 legislation. arguments surrounding this Bill and the measures that That is true, and there are special judges, special courts we judge appropriate. We would all like to live in a and special advocates. However, all that is actually very world where the measures contemplated in the Bill were dangerous, because it removes the relationship between not needed. The sad reality is that they are, as a the defendant and their representative, in that the latter continuing threat will be posed to this country and its is not allowed to reveal the full nature of the case citizens by people it is not possible to prosecute, deport against them. Only the judge knows the full nature of or take other action against so preventive measures are the case against them, along with, presumably, those required. I wish that that were not the case but it is, promoting—for want of a better word—the prosecution which is why we are introducing the measures in this against the individual. That is a denial of justice, because Bill. They follow on from the counter-terrorism review justice has to be done and be seen to be done. The and are in recognition of this continuing risk to the person who is being judged against must be fully aware citizens of this country. The Bill is certainly not about of all the evidence being used against them. protecting the security services; it is about protecting As the hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion pointed the public. That is the driver behind these measures. out, we are allowing Executive control orders to be Let me deal with the duration of the legislation and placed, with a limited degree of judicial oversight, over the Government’s sunset clause. Our starting point was people against whom no criminal prosecution has been that this legislation was not being considered in a fevered made. Let us consider the awful information that emerged state but in a measured way so, like other legislation, it from Libya concerning somebody who was deported did not require a sunset clause. However, we listened there, and who suffered greatly as a result. That was a carefully, we reflected on the Bill’s measures and the 83 Terrorism Prevention and 5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Terrorism Prevention and 84 Investigation Measures Bill Investigation Measures Bill [James Brokenshire] so low? In the 10 years or so since 9/11 there have been about 230 convictions relating to terrorism offences, impact they could have on individuals, and we judged it which is less than 10% of the number in the United appropriate that each Parliament should be able to States during the same period, and similar comparisons review the measures in the context of the security can be drawn with other countries. Why does this situation at the time and consider whether their continuation country have such a low conviction rate compared with was appropriate. That is why we have introduced the everybody else? five-year sunset clause in the way that we have. It has been interesting to hear this evening’s debate James Brokenshire: My right hon. Friend has taken a about annual renewal. The hon. Member for Islington very consistent line on ensuring that those suspected of North has been a consistent participant in these debates—I terrorism offences are brought to justice and that the respect the contributions that he has made year on courts are used appropriately. We need to do all we can year—and he implied that some of them have been to ensure that that happens, which is why we are taking “perfunctory”. That is not what we would wish in forward measures such as post-charge questioning, which relation to legislation such as this, which is why the he has advocated clearly, and why we are continuing to point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Cambridge examine the way in which intercept evidence might be (Dr Huppert) about the need for a serious and considered usable in the courts and how the Privy Council review review of legislation was well made and strongly put. continues in relation to that. I agree with him that we We took that approach when we sought to conduct a need to be looking at a package of measures, that this is counter-terrorism review in preparation for this Bill. not about one instrument in itself and that it might be appropriate to take a range of steps. I would not want I understand the point that the hon. Member for to suggest in this evening’s debate that this is about one Brighton, Pavilion (Caroline Lucas) makes. In some issue. The Government are taking forward a range of ways, she sympathises with the line of argument taken measures as part of their counter-terrorism review and by the hon. Member for Islington North. She makes a this Bill is just one part of that. point about Executive action, but I repeat that circumstances and situations continue to arise that mean, sadly, that Richard Fuller: Before the Minister moves on, may I legislation of this type is necessary and continues to be ask about the point made by my right hon. Friend the required. She made a point about secret evidence, and Member for Haltemprice and Howden (Mr Davis) and the Government will shortly be introducing a Green the hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion (Caroline Lucas)? Paper to consider further its use in court and to consider The hon. Lady mentioned that there had been no this matter in further detail, given a number of associated convictions of people on control orders. By supporting issues that have been raised. the Government today, we will be extending the TPIMs regime by five years. What comfort can the Minister Caroline Lucas: Will the Minister explain why he is so give us that that record of no convictions will be improved certain that the TPIMs regime will be effective, given by a more thorough prosecution of the evidence and by that it is very similar to the control orders regime and bringing to trial the people under control orders? Can nobody who has been placed under a control order has he say anything to give us some assurance that that ever subsequently been prosecuted for a terrorism offence? system of containment rather than prosecution will change to one of prosecution and bringing to justice James Brokenshire: In some ways, this relates to the rather than one of just containing a problem and leaving package of the measures before us. This is about not people on one side? only this Bill, but the capabilities and resources being made available to the police and security services to James Brokenshire: I would point my hon. Friend in allow them to monitor people and seek to bring them to the direction of the Bill’s provisions, which clearly underline justice. I absolutely agree with the hon. Lady, and it is our desire to prosecute people when the evidence is our preferred option, that people who commit acts available. That is part and parcel of the additional related to terrorism should be prosecuted and brought investigative capabilities intended to be available to the to justice in the normal way. However, the Government police and the security services. I believe that this approach need to assess risk and seek to protect the public, and will contribute to our being able to achieve the sorts of we judge that, for a number of reasons, it is not possible steps that he is advocating in terms of seeking to to achieve that aim in all circumstances. That is why prosecute where there is admissible evidence that could preventive measures of the type contemplated in this be brought before the courts. Bill are required and will continue to be needed for the I deal now with some of the other issues raised in this foreseeable future. We therefore argue that it is for useful and constructive debate, which has been a symbol Parliament to consider, on a per-Parliament basis, the of some of the other consideration of the Bill. My hon. necessity of these types of measures. I am aware that Friend the Member for Cambridge raised the issue of the hon. Lady has raised the issue of bail in this context, Libya and he will doubtless have heard clearly the and we considered it in the counter-terrorism review. comments made by the Prime Minister during the statement However, we had clear guidance from the police who preceding this debate. It is the Government’s long-standing recommended against bail being available for terrorist policy not to comment on intelligence matters, but I can suspects because of the risk to public safety that might make it absolutely clear that the Government’s clear be involved. policy is not to participate in, solicit, encourage or condone the use of torture or inhumane or degrading Mr David Davis: If I may, I will pursue the point treatment for any purpose. raised by the hon. Lady. Will the Minister tell us why he thinks that the number of convictions in this country is Several hon. Members rose— 85 Terrorism Prevention and 5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Terrorism Prevention and 86 Investigation Measures Bill Investigation Measures Bill James Brokenshire: May I just finish the point? We that have been made during this debate and consider have published the consolidated guidance to intelligence with the Metropolitan police what further information personnel, including on the passing and receipt of might be appropriate. intelligence relating to detainees. The Government took early and decisive action to set up the Gibson inquiry, Shabana Mahmood: I thank the Minister for giving precisely to examine whether Britain was implicated in way and for the indication that further written evidence the improper treatment of detainees so that we can will be available. I am still minded to press amendment 20 better understand what happened and allow all involved to a vote later this evening, but I have been advised by closure. the Clerks that if new clause 3 is passed we cannot have a vote on new clause 7. May I clarify that although we Jeremy Corbyn: I thank the Minister for giving way would have liked to vote on annual renewal—we still and I am grateful to him for allowing this point to be believe it is an important measure—we will not oppose made. Is he concerned that the exchange of letters made new clause 3? However, Labour Members will take the by former Prime Minister Blair with a number of countries issue forward when the Bill reaches the other place. that allowed removal to those that had not signed the convention on torture should be ended? We should only James Brokenshire: I appreciate the hon. Lady’s ever remove people to a country that recognises the clarification of the official Opposition’s stance. I have relevant sections of that convention and that would not given the House clear assurances about the preparations carry out the death penalty against those people. for the transfer from control orders to TPIMs and we will reflect on the debate further, but we believe that the Government’s amendments for the review are appropriate, 7pm and, on the basis of the assurances we have received, we James Brokenshire: The hon. Gentleman will have do not believe that the Opposition amendments are heard what the Prime Minister said in his statement required. Even at this stage, I ask the hon. Lady to about the investigation being undertaken by the Gibson reflect on the debate and to consider withdrawing those inquiry. These matters will be looked at closely, but I amendments. certainly do not intend to expand this debate to cover Question put and agreed to. them in such a way because time is pressing and we have New clause 3 accordingly read a Second time, and a number of other issues to do with this mini-debate to added to the Bill. get through. The right hon. Member for Leicester East (Keith New Clause 4 Vaz) asked me about a couple of issues. The first was to do with the role of Lord Macdonald, who was not SECTION (EXPIRY AND REPEAL OF TPIM POWERS): appointed to review counter-terrorism legislation generally SUPPLEMENTARY PROVISION or on an ongoing basis but was asked to oversee the counter-terrorism review, which completed in January. ‘(1) This section applies if the Secretary of State’s TPIM powers expire or are repealed under section (Expiry and repeal of It is obviously open to him to look at and comment on TPIM powers). the draft Bill; we have published it with the purpose of (2) A TPIM notice which is in force immediately before expiry allowing it to be considered. or repeal is to— Let me turn to the central issue raised by those on the (a) continue in force for the period of 28 days beginning Opposition Front Bench as well as other Opposition with expiry or repeal; and Members. I want to make it very clear that the TPIM (b) be treated as if revoked by the Secretary of State at the system will provide appropriate, proportionate and effective end of that period. powers for dealing with the risk posed by suspected (3) Subsection (2)(a) is subject to— terrorists whom we can neither prosecute nor deport. (a) any variation under section12(1)(a) or (b), and The new system introduced by the Bill will be accompanied (b) any revocation or quashing. by an increase in funding for the police and security (4) Except as provided for in subsection (5) or (6), TPIM services to enhance their investigative capabilities. As I proceedings may neither continue nor be begun after expiry or have said, this will complement the new regime and, we repeal. believe, maintain public confidence. To repeat what I (5) TPIM proceedings of a kind set out in subsection (7) may have said, the Metropolitan Police Service has confirmed continue, or be begun, after expiry or repeal, but only for the that arrangements will be in place effectively to manage purpose of determining one or more of the following matters— the transition from control orders to TPIMs. I have (a) whether a TPIM notice should be quashed; heard what Opposition Members and other Members (b) whether measures imposed by a TPIM notice should have said and I can say to the right hon. Member for be quashed; Leicester East—or I would have done, if he was in his (c) whether to make a declaration under paragraph 4(4) of place—that I will take the issue away and consider Schedule2. further with the police what further information may be (6) Proceedings for an award of damages or other relief arising provided. out of any TPIM proceedings of a kind set out in subsection (7)(a) As right hon. and hon. Members will recognise, there to (c) may continue, or be begun, after expiry or repeal. is a challenge here and we do not provide detailed (7) The TPIM proceedings referred to in subsections (5) and breakdowns of what money we provide for specific (6) are— security activities as that would provide detailed information (a) a reference made under paragraph 3 of Schedule 2 about our capabilities and techniques that could undermine before expiry or repeal; national security. There is a delicate balance to be (b) a hearing in pursuance of directions under section 8(2) struck, but I will certainly consider carefully the comments or 8(5); 87 Terrorism Prevention and 5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Terrorism Prevention and 88 Investigation Measures Bill Investigation Measures Bill (c) an appeal under section16; (ii) a requirement to give notice to the Secretary of (d) an appeal, or further appeal, relating to a decision in State before associating or communicating with any proceedings mentioned in any of paragraphs (a) other persons, which includes provision allowing to (c). the individual (without giving notice) to associate and communicate with such persons, or (8) If, after expiry of the Secretary of State’s TPIM powers, the descriptions of persons, as are specified. powers are revived under section (Expiry and repeal of TPIM powers)(2)(b)— (iii) a requirement of the kind referred to in sub-paragraph (c) of paragraph 8(2) of Schedule1, which may in (a) all TPIM notices, including any which were in force particular relate to association or communication before expiry, are to be taken into account in which is allowed by virtue of provision of the kind determining whether there is new terrorism-related referred to in sub-paragraph (i) or (ii) above; activity for the purposes of section3(6); (e) provision which corresponds to provision within Part 2 (b) the expiry of those powers does not prevent them from of Schedule1; being exercised after revival in relation to any TPIM notice which— and for this purpose “specified” means specified by the (i) expired or was revoked before the expiry of the Secretary of State in an enhanced TPIM notice. powers or during the relevant 28 day period, or (4) Except as provided for in subsections (5) to (10), the (ii) is, in accordance with subsection (2)(b) of this provision made by a temporary enhanced TPIM order must section, treated as if revoked at the end of the correspond to the relevant provisions of this Act. relevant 28 day period; (5) A temporary enhanced TPIM order— and for this purpose “relevant 28 day period” means the (a) must secure that enhanced TPIM notices and standard period of 28 days beginning with the expiry of the TPIM notices are separate notices; powers that is mentioned in subsection (2)(b).’.— (James Brokenshire.) (b) must secure that, at any particular time, an enhanced TPIM notice and a standard TPIM notice are not Brought up, read the First and Second time, and added both in force in relation to a particular individual; to the Bill. and (c) may secure that the application of a temporary New Clause 5 enhanced TPIM order to a particular individual does TEMPORARY POWER FOR IMPOSITION OF ENHANCED not affect the application of this Act to that MEASURES individual (and vice versa). ‘(1) If the Secretary of State considers that it is necessary to do (6) The provision of a temporary enhanced TPIM order which so by reason of urgency, the Secretary of State may make a corresponds to section 3 must include appropriate variations temporary enhanced TPIM order during any period that— from the provision contained in that section to secure— (a) begins with the dissolution of Parliament, and (a) that condition A is replaced by a condition which secures that the enhanced TPIM power may not be (b) ends with the first Queen’s Speech of the Parliament exercised in relation to an individual unless the Secretary which first meets after that dissolution. of State is satisfied, on the balance of probabilities, (2) A temporary enhanced TPIM order is an order which that the individual is, or has been, involved in terrorism- makes provision for, or in connection with, giving the Secretary of related activity; and State power to impose enhanced measures by notice on individuals (b) that condition D is replaced by a condition which whom the Secretary of State is satisfied, on the balance of secures both— probabilities, are, or have been, involved in terrorism-related activity. (i) the same result as condition D, and (3) An enhanced measure is a requirement, restriction or other (ii) that the enhanced TPIM power may not be provision which is of any of the following kinds— exercised in relation to an individual unless some or all of the measures imposed by the enhanced (a) a restriction on an individual in relation to the TPIM notice are measures that may not be residence in which the individual resides, including— imposed by a standard TPIM notice. (i) a requirement to reside at a specified residence in the United Kingdom; (7) The provision of a temporary enhanced TPIM order which corresponds to section5(1) must include appropriate variations (ii) a requirement not to allow others to reside at that from the provision contained in that subsection to secure that residence without the permission of the Secretary each enhanced TPIM notice ceases to be in force at the time of State; when the enhanced TPIM power ceases to have effect in (iii) a requirement, applicable between specified hours, accordance with section (Temporary power: supplementary to remain at that residence; provision)(1) (subject to earlier revocation or quashing of the (b) a restriction on an individual in relation to leaving a notice). specified area; (8) The provision of a temporary enhanced TPIM order which (c) a requirement, restriction or other provision which corresponds to Schedule 1 must include appropriate variations corresponds to provision within any of these from the provision contained in that Schedule to secure that it is paragraphs of Schedule1— enhanced measures which the Secretary of State has power to (i) paragraphs 2 to 6; impose. (ii) paragraph 7(1) and (2) and (4) to (6); (9) A temporary enhanced TPIM order may make appropriate (iii) paragraphs 9 to 12; provision (including appropriate variations from the provision (d) a requirement, restriction or other provision which contained in the relevant provisions of this Act) in consequence corresponds to provision within paragraph 8(1) of of, or in connection with, the creation, in accordance with this Schedule1 (as read with paragraph 8(3) of that section, of the enhanced TPIM power. Schedule), including— (10) A temporary enhanced TPIM order may make appropriate (i) a requirement not to associate or communicate with provision for the purposes of securing that transitional and other persons without the permission of the Secretary saving provision relating to a temporary enhanced TPIM order of State, which includes provision allowing the ceasing to have effect may be made (including provision for individual (without seeking permission) to associate enhanced TPIM notices to continue in force for a period, which and communicate with such persons or descriptions does not exceed 28 days, after the enhanced TPIM power ceases of persons as the Secretary of State may specify; to have effect). 89 Terrorism Prevention and 5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Terrorism Prevention and 90 Investigation Measures Bill Investigation Measures Bill (11) The provision that may be made by a temporary enhanced The Government have made it clear that we believe TPIM order includes— that in future there might be exceptional circumstances (a) provision amending any enactment (including an in which it is necessary to introduce additional and enactment contained in this Act); more restrictive measures to those contained in the Bill. (b) provision applying (with or without modifications) any I emphasise that we hope never to need them, but, in the enactment (including an enactment contained in this event of a very serious terrorist risk that cannot be Act); managed by any other means, it would be irresponsible (c) provision conferring functions on the Secretary of of the Government not to act to protect the public State or any other person (including, in the case of the Secretary of State or any other Minister of the appropriately. Crown, functions of a legislative nature).’.—(James Brokenshire.) Dr Huppert: Will the Minister make it clear that he Brought up, and read the First time. and the Government would not consider the Olympics, in and of themselves, to be such an emergency risk? There might be circumstances that would become such James Brokenshire: I beg to move, That the clause be a risk, but will he confirm that the simple fact we are read a Second time. hosting them would not be sufficient to trigger the new legislation? Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: James Brokenshire: I am grateful to my hon. Friend Government new clause 6—Temporary power: for highlighting that point. The security arrangements supplementary provision. for the Olympics are being planned on the basis that the Amendment 1, page 22, line 31, in Schedule 1, at end additional powers envisaged under the enhanced TPIM add— Bill will not be needed. This is about considering exceptional ‘Additional measures circumstances and exceptional risk, which is why we 12A (1) The Secretary of State may impose measures have sought to take the approach that we have. In additional to those contained in Schedule 1 if— exceptional circumstances we will, where possible, bring (a) there is a serious terrorist threat; and forward emergency legislation to introduce such powers. That is why we have drafted and published in draft the (b) they are necessary for the protection of the public. Enhanced Terrorism Prevention and Investigation Measures (2) Any measure under paragraph 13(1) can only be imposed if Bill, which will now be subject to pre-legislative scrutiny. the Secretary of State is satisfied on the balance of probabilities that the individual is involved in terrorism-related activity.’. That will give Parliament the opportunity to examine its terms closely. In some ways, this underlines the point Amendment 2, page 22, line 31, at end add— made by the hon. Member for Islington North (Jeremy ‘Additional measures introduced by Secretary of State Corbyn) in the previous debate about seeking to do this 12A (1) The Secretary of State may by order introduce in a considered and measured way rather than in a measures additional to those contained in this Part. febrile atmosphere—the draft Bill has been introduced (2) An order under sub-paragraph (1) may be made only if a to facilitate that. draft has been laid before and approved by resolution of each If the enhanced TPIM Bill is introduced while Parliament House of Parliament.’. is in recess, Parliament can be recalled to debate it, but Amendment 3, page 22, line 31, at end add— there is a small gap in our ability to introduce this ‘Emergency additional measures introduced by Secretary of State emergency legislation in periods where Parliament is 12A (1) The Secretary of State may by order introduce dissolved and where a new Parliament has been appointed measures additional to those contained in this Part. but the first Queen’s Speech has not been delivered. (2) An order under sub-paragraph (1) shall have immediate This gap was identified during pre-legislative scrutiny of effect but must be approved retrospectively by a resolution of the draft emergency Bills to extend periods of pre-charge each House of Parliament. detention for terrorist suspects to 28 days. (3) If either House declines to approve a resolution under Government new clauses 5 and 6 take the same sub-paragraph (2), the order shall cease to have effect on the date approach to addressing that gap as we are proposing to of such disapproval.’. take with pre-charge detention. They introduce a power Amendment 4, page 22, line 31, at end add— to the standard TPIM Bill that would allow the Secretary ‘Additional measures introduced by Secretary of State during of State—where necessary by reason of urgency—to dissolution of Parliament bring the enhanced TPIM regime into force by making 12A (1) The Secretary of State may by order introduce a temporary enhanced TPIM order. This power would measures additional to those contained in this Part during a be exercisable only in the periods I have mentioned: dissolution of Parliament. while Parliament is dissolved and in the period between (2) An order under sub-paragraph (1) shall have immediate the appointment of a new Parliament and the first effect but must be approved retrospectively by a resolution of Queen’s Speech. A temporary enhanced TPIM order each House in the new Parliament. would make provision directly equivalent to that in the (3) If either House declines to approve a resolution under enhanced Bill. I shall not delay the House by reciting sub-paragraph (2), the order shall cease to have effect on the date the detail of that Bill’s provisions; it has been published of such disapproval.’. and is available to all Members to read. It will be subject to rigorous pre-legislative scrutiny, following which it James Brokenshire: This group of amendments relates will no doubt be amended and improved. to the enhanced TPIM provisions and the circumstances in which measures additional to those contained in the Hazel Blears: I am grateful to the Minister for giving Bill might need to be imposed. The Government and way and for the way in which he has managed so far to Opposition are taking different approaches. present the enhanced TPIM Bill. Would he not accept 91 Terrorism Prevention and 5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Terrorism Prevention and 92 Investigation Measures Bill Investigation Measures Bill [Hazel Blears] place following the previous debate with the five-year renewal. The powers that are available under the enhanced that the TPIM legislation, like the control order legislation, measures are such that they require a further considered is in and of itself exceptional legislation that we have all approach by Parliament before they are introduced. said should be used as a last resort? It is not something That is why we have rationally and reasonably, as reflected that any party would want to adopt; it is outwith the in the counter-terrorism review, sought to adopt the normal criminal justice system and it is not part of the approach that we have. normal legislative process. Why, for goodness’ sake, does not he include the enhanced measures in the Mr David Davis: I have no wish to add to my hon. existing legislation—not so that they are required to be Friend’s difficulties, but he knows I have concerns about used by the Home Secretary, but so that she would be this issue. The simple truth is that had the 90-day able to use them if circumstances were to arise in which measure been put before the House in July 2005, when it was necessary to have a power of relocation, curfew, the atrocity occurred, the House would have taken a association or exclusion? This is the most convoluted, much more emotional, rather than rational, decision. I awkward, difficult and strange way of legislating that I have a general concern—I know that he is thinking have ever seen. We are going to have exceptional legislation through the legislation—that the House does not make to exceptional legislation in exceptional circumstances. its best decisions in the immediate aftermath of atrocities. Why cannot the Minister legislate properly and put There is a risk, in going down this route, that we will get these powers into existing legislation? not rational, but irrational, decisions.

James Brokenshire: I think that underlines the James Brokenshire: I hear that argument, which is fundamental difference between us on the nature of the why we have sought to produce the draft Bill—to ensure powers that are contemplated and their impact on that it can be considered rationally, calmly and coldly individuals and counter-terrorism. A number of by the Joint Committee. Approaching it in that way contributions have been made about radicalisation. Given means that in circumstances similar to those that have, the stringent nature of the powers that are contemplated sadly, arisen in the past, there is a defined mechanism under the enhanced provisions, we believe it is absolutely and method that has been subject to scrutiny in advance. right that Parliament should determine whether the In many ways, we are seeking to recognise some of the circumstances are so exceptional that emergency powers challenges to which my right hon. Friend the Member are needed. That is the right way to do things, rather for Haltemprice and Howden (Mr Davis) has alluded than seeking to suggest that this is all business as usual and to address them by having the draft Bill available and that the powers should be on the statute book. That now for consideration. is why I disagree with the right hon. Lady.

Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP): 7.15 pm Does the Minister have any idea just how ridiculous the Hazel Blears: The Minister is being very generous in Government look with these enhanced TPIM measures giving way. May I ask him a specific question? Will we and, more importantly, how disappointed civil libertarian have to wait until this country is subject to exceptional groups are with the Government? The system is probably circumstances, which Lord Macdonald has said could worse than what the previous, anti-civil libertarian Labour be a series of catastrophic attacks in every major city in Government proposed. Why cannot we have proper Britain, until we have a power of relocation on our legislation, and why cannot the Government continue statute book? the good work they started instead of going down this route? James Brokenshire: I shall not second-guess the James Brokenshire: I absolutely reject the assertion circumstances in which the draft Bill and those provisions that this Bill is in some way more draconian and cracks would be required. Clearly, it would be in exceptional down more on liberty than the approach of the previous circumstances in which we were faced with a serious Government. That is precisely why we have sought to terrorist risk that could not be managed by any other rebalance the counter-terrorism legislation, and that means. That is the sort of situation we are contemplating, has been at the heart of the counter-terrorism review. I but I am not prepared to second-guess future developments should have hoped that the hon. Gentleman recognised in the threat picture. The right hon. Lady and I disagree that. We have recognised the very nature of the enhanced on this, but, as I have said quite clearly, we believe that measures and why it is appropriate not to have them as the TPIMs regime in its entirety—the standard TPIMs business as usual—why it is appropriate to have them in regime and the supportive resources around it—is sufficient a Bill that can be subject to pre-legislative scrutiny and to manage the threats that we face. Only in exceptional can be considered calmly and rationally rather than circumstances would the enhanced measures be required. rushing and not having powers available to deal with That is the conclusion we have reached as part of the extraordinary and extreme circumstances. That is why counter-terrorism review. I appreciate that she and I we have taken the view that we have in the structure of differ on that, but that was the conclusion we came to. the approach in the draft enhanced Bill and in this Bill. The counter-terrorism review recognised that enhanced measures might be required in exceptional circumstances, Shabana Mahmood: How does the Minister say that which is why we have taken the view we have. control orders or TPIMs are business as usual? Dr Huppert: Contrary to the right hon. Lady’s point, James Brokenshire: I am saying that because this does the Minister share my pleasure that we will be able legislation remains and resides on the statute book, to keep the powers of internal exile with judicial oversight subject to the new clauses that we have rightly put in off the statute book for as long as we can? 93 Terrorism Prevention and 5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Terrorism Prevention and 94 Investigation Measures Bill Investigation Measures Bill James Brokenshire: The counter-terrorism review carefully and the enhanced TPIM Bill are intended never arise. concluded that there might be exceptional circumstances—a None the less, it is necessary for a responsible Government very serious terrorist risk—in which the Government to ensure that the enhanced TPIM powers can be brought would have to seek parliamentary approval for additional into force in all circumstances in which they may be restrictive measures. That is what we are seeking to do necessary. and that is why we believe that the overall approach taken by this Bill is appropriate. Mark Durkan: Does the Minister not recall that when the previous Government introduced the Counter- Mr McFadden: With the publication of the draft Bill, Terrorism Bill with provision, at that stage, for 42-day the Government have conceded that they have no argument detention, which was to be the subject of a parliamentary in principle against the extra powers in the enhanced debate and vote when the powers were activated, the TPIMs regime. What will the Minister say to the victims then Opposition rightly argued that it would create of terrorism in the emergency circumstances that he sets dangers for Parliament and eventually for the judiciary, out and that might give rise to their introduction? Will potentially, to parliamentary control in relation he say that we had the extra powers but we decided not to measures that were being taken against known to use them until the incident happened? Does he really individuals? Questions were asked, such as how a believe that the Government could survive in those parliamentary debate in such a situation would be informed. circumstances? Does he not see the nonsense of that What information would be in the media and in Parliament, position? and how could we ensure that, if there was a prosecution, that did not destroy the basis for a fair trial? Exactly the James Brokenshire: The right hon. Gentleman’s question arguments that the Opposition used against the previous is premised on various assumptions that I just do not Government’s measures surely apply in respect of the accept. He can make his point but the Bill and the arguments that the Minister has just made for his enhanced measures that sit alongside it have been part enhanced TPIMs. of a very considered approach in relation to the overall legislative framework, which has not been rushed but James Brokenshire: I understand the hon. Gentleman’s has been considered. It has very much at its heart our case, and care will be required, but the House often responsibility to protect the public, but it also recognises considers topics in relation to which matters are before that there is a balance to be struck. We believe that the the courts. The emergency legislation deals with the balance has previously been wrong and that it needs to principles, not with individuals. The House has be adjusted, as contemplated by the Bill, to ensure that demonstrated clearly that it is able to do that and to our counter-terrorism measures are appropriate, necessary consider and debate matters where care is required. and focused on delivering safety and security in a way Amendments 1 to 4 address situations where more that is judged appropriate on the basis of the evidence. stringent measures are needed to protect the public than The draft enhanced TPIM Bill contains provisions those available under the Bill. Amendment 1 would in that mean that if it is brought into force while a temporary effect place a version of the enhanced TPIM proposals enhanced TPIM order is in force, a decision taken formally on the statute book through the Bill. We under that order should be treated as a decision under debated an almost identical amendment in Committee. the new enhanced Bill. The regime provided by the It would add a new paragraph to schedule 1, allowing emergency TPIM order is intended to be the same as the Secretary of State to impose any measure, in addition that provided by the enhanced Bill. In other words, the to those otherwise specified in schedule 1, on an individual new clauses are intended to be complementary. They set where out the various provisions and matters that may, or in “there is a serious terrorist threat” some cases that must, be secured by a temporary enhanced and where such measures are TPIM order, to give effect to the regime set out in the emergency Bill. This includes in particular setting out “necessary for the protection of the public.” the more stringent restrictions that would be available, It reflects the position in the enhanced TPIM Bill that and the fact that an enhanced notice may be imposed the test for imposing such additional measures would only where the Secretary of State is satisfied on the be raised from “reasonable belief” of involvement in balance of probabilities that the individual is or has terrorism-related activity to being satisfied on the “balance been involved in terrorism-related activity. Once made, of probabilities” that this is the case. the temporary enhanced TPIM order would remain in Amendments 2 and 3 offer an alternative approach to force for 90 days, or a shorter period if specified in the providing for the use of additional measures to that set order. It must be laid before Parliament as soon as out in amendment 1. Instead of provision being made practicable. While it is in force the Secretary of State on the face of the Bill, the Government would be able to can repeal its provisions at any time. add further measures to schedule 1 by order. Amendment 2 The 90-day period is intended to cover, but not envisages that Parliament would approve those measures significantly to exceed, the period during which Parliament in advance; amendment 3 provides for retrospective would be unable to pass the emergency legislation. parliamentary approval and so seeks to address other After parliamentary business resumes, the Government concerns. Amendments 1, 2 and 3 highlight a difference can introduce the enhanced TPIM Bill, if they judge it in approach between those on the Opposition Benches appropriate, to replace the powers conferred by the and my right hon. and hon. Friends on the Government order with powers under primary legislation. Benches. These are essential provisions. The power that they The Government’s position is that the Bill provides a provide may never need to be used. Indeed, we would all robust and effective set of measures to manage the risk prefer that the exceptional circumstances for which it posed by suspected terrorists whom we cannot prosecute 95 Terrorism Prevention and 5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Terrorism Prevention and 96 Investigation Measures Bill Investigation Measures Bill [James Brokenshire] that requires a certain measure to be put in place, and she cannot do so because it is not in schedule 1. The or deport, and it will be complemented by additional good news since we considered the issue in Committee funding for the police and Security Service for covert is that the Home Secretary has clearly recognised that investigation. The Government consider that more stringent there may be circumstances where the list of measures powers will be required only in exceptional circumstances. in schedule 1 is not sufficient, and she has now published So although the Government agree with the Opposition draft legislation, the enhanced TPIMs Bill, that will that there may be a need for additional measures to allow relocation and curfew and will prevent access to those contained in schedule 1, we believe, as we flagged mobile phones and the internet where that is necessary. up in our counter-terrorism review, it is right that those I support the fact that in that Bill she is giving herself more stringent powers are not on the statute book or the powers to introduce an enhanced TPIM if Parliament available at all times through an order-making power, as is dissolved and she judges it necessary at the time. amendments 1, 2 and 3 would provide, but are contained The bad news is that the only way that the Home in draft emergency legislation that is introduced only if Secretary could exercise these enhanced powers when required. This is also reflected in the Government’s Parliament is sitting is via fresh primary legislation. I approach to extended pre-charge detention. assume that the Home Secretary intends that there Furthermore, the Government consider that it is should be a rigorous process of pre-legislative scrutiny appropriate for the measures available to the Secretary in relation to the enhanced TPIMs Bill that has been of State to be set out on the face of primary legislation, published. Presumably it will be scrutinised by a cross-party and to have been agreed in advance by Parliament. That Committee and presumably the Committee will be made is the clear approach adopted in the Bill before us, and up of Members from both Houses. Perhaps the House it is also the approach that we have taken in the enhanced will consider making the Committee Chair a well-respected Bill. Indeed, I would argue that the more stringent Cross Bencher, such as a former Cabinet Secretary with nature of measures available under the enhanced Bill is huge experience of Government business. The Committee an even greater reason for them to be clearly defined would be expected to take evidence from all the experts and agreed by Parliament, rather than decided on an ad and, on the basis of that evidence, it would then be asked hoc basis by the Secretary of State. The Government to come to a unanimous view on the matters before it. are therefore not in favour of amendments 1, 2 and 3. For the reasons that I have set out, I ask hon. Members 7.30 pm not to press them. That is what we did just a few weeks ago in relation to Amendment 4 is specifically concerned with what the draft legislation on pre-charge detention—exactly would happen if the additional measures are required that process. The report, which I know the Minister will during a period when Parliament is dissolved. The same have read with great care, concludes that the route of issue was raised during pre-legislative scrutiny of the using emergency legislation in that way is unsatisfactory emergency Bills for extended pre-charge detention. The and unreliable. Those are not my words; those are the Government have listened to the concerns expressed words of the Joint Committee, having considered the and new clauses 5 and 6, which I have already outlined, evidence very carefully, indeed. directly address the point. I trust that this means that There are at least three major problems with the Opposition Members will be content to withdraw their route that the Minister wishes to take. First, there is the amendment. wide variation in the threshold, or the trigger, that will apply to the emergency legislation, and it is not good Paul Goggins: I shall speak to amendments 1 to 4 and enough for him to stand at the Dispatch Box and say voice my support for Government new clauses 5 and 6. that he will not second-guess the circumstances in which Throughout Second Reading and consideration in it may be necessary. He is the Minister who, along with Committee, I have supported the principle of placing in the Home Secretary, will decide whether the legislation schedule 1 a list of conditions that would be available to should be brought before the House. the Secretary of State under the TPIMs regime. Under Lord Macdonald of River Glaven, in evidence to the control orders there is no such list. The Home Secretary Joint Committee, said that it would take a national can impose any condition, subject to accountability to catastrophe before emergency legislation could be brought the court. As my right hon. Friend the Member for forward. Other experts thought that such legislation Salford and Eccles (Hazel Blears) has continued to might be necessary in one or two individual cases. In remind the House throughout the debate, there is that either scenario, it will be wholly unsatisfactory. My right continued oversight over the existing regime. hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton South The problem with schedule 1 is that the list of conditions East (Mr McFadden) made the point very clearly: if we that it provides is inadequate. For example, it requires have had the national catastrophe, we have missed the that the Home Secretary must—not may, as I hope we boat. will discuss later—allow someone subject to a TPIM to The whole point of the enhanced TPIMs legislation have access to the internet and to have a mobile phone is to prevent a catastrophe in the first place, so are we and a land line. There is no option; the Home Secretary really meant to believe that we need the whole panoply must do that. Equally, the Home Secretary has no of primary legislation going through this House and the power to relocate an individual away from an area if she House of Lords, with all the necessary deliberations, on judges that to be necessary. I hope that we will soon the basis of one or two individual cases? I regard that debate that aspect as well. almost as an abuse of the parliamentary process. The nagging concern that hon. Members—on both Secondly, the passage of legislation would be fraught sides of the House, I hope—have is what happens when with difficulties. The individuals who are subject to the Home Secretary has intelligence about an individual control orders now and who will be subject to TPIMs in 97 Terrorism Prevention and 5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Terrorism Prevention and 98 Investigation Measures Bill Investigation Measures Bill future are subject precisely because there is intelligence meaning that she would have to come to Parliament, on them that cannot be shared in an open court and, send the order through both Houses and gain the therefore, certainly cannot be shared in an open debate affirmation of both. The problem with that process is in Parliament. The Home Secretary would therefore be the same as the problem with primary legislation: it all able to tell us almost nothing about the detail of what means delay and time, which she may not have; she may had led her to the conclusion that emergency legislation need to put the condition into a TPIM immediately. was necessary, and anything she said say in the debate That is a concern for me, even though I speak in favour would have to be said with great care. of amendment 2. Members from both sides of the House talk of the Amendment 3, however, is worthy of more consideration need always to prosecute criminal charges where possible, than the Minister’s brief summary of it. It would allow but in such a debate the Home Secretary might say the Home Secretary to introduce additional measures something that prejudiced a future trial—if at a later in an urgent or emergency situation, but crucially she date there were a successful attempt to bring a prosecution. would be able to do so immediately, because proposed So the practical passage of any Bill through Parliament subparagraph (2) would give her the power to do so would be fraught with difficulty. Parliament would also with “immediate effect”. In bringing it forward with be none the wiser when it considered such legislation, immediate effect, however, she would have to submit to because it could not be told anything about the specific parliamentary scrutiny, and both Houses would at a circumstances that had led the Home Secretary to conclude later date have to affirm to her decision to invoke the that such measures were necessary. additional measures. Indeed, if either House declined to Thirdly, and importantly, there is the issue of practicality, give such affirmation, the Home Secretary’s original on which there is considerable detail in the Joint Committee’s decision would fall, so amendment 3 would give her the report. I should have thought that this Home Secretary immediate powers that she would need to impose the would have learned a lesson about emergency legislation conditions, but it would also provide for some degree of from the past few months, because she had to introduce scrutiny by Parliament at a later date. some on police bail to the House, and she got it through by the skin of her teeth—a couple of weeks before we Dr Huppert: I am following the right hon. Gentleman went into recess. I asked her then what she would have very carefully. Is he arguing that the Secretary of State done if we had been in recess and had needed emergency should be able to do anything that he or she wants, but legislation, and the question arises again. If she concludes that, if Parliament later gets around to saying that it that an enhanced TPIM is necessary and we are in disagrees, because of course there is no time limit on recess, will she recall Parliament so that we can have an when it has to agree, the condition has to end? Until enhanced regime for one or two individual cases? that point, any measure whatever could be imposed on I support the new clauses that the Minister has somebody who had not been convicted of any crime. Is introduced, and I welcome the fact that he has seen it that what he is arguing for? necessary and important to ensure that, when Parliament has been dissolved, the Home Secretary can make an Paul Goggins: I want the Home Secretary, having the enhanced order, because Parliament cannot be recalled insight, information and intelligence that she has and in those circumstances. knowing the risks involved, to have the power to do Let me remind the Minister that in Committee on something about the situation—and to do so immediately. 28 June he said that such an enhanced power It is important that there is some accountability to Parliament at a later date, and under amendment 3, “should not be introduced or passed until it is needed”––[Official when Parliament considered the matter at a later stage, Report, Terrorism Prevention and Investigation Measures Public Bill Committee, 28 June 2011; c. 195.] it would be possible for either the House of the Lords or this House to decline to give an affirmation, at which But, if that is the point at which the legislation is point the power would lapse. It is important also, however, brought to the House, and if there is then consideration, that the Home Secretary has the power to act. deliberation and Royal Assent a week later, a week later may be seven days too late. The Minister should consider This is a very interesting situation. Here am I, an that point carefully. Opposition Member, trusting the Home Secretary to exercise her judgment as the Home Secretary in relation The Minister gave his view about the four amendments to individual cases, and, by the way, her record on in my name and those of my right hon. and hon. relocation in particular is first-class, and I applaud the Friends, and he is quite right that amendment 4 is way in which she has pursued the two cases that we superfluous, because he has accepted the arguments in know about. So I trust her judgment. Interestingly, relation to Dissolution, so I will not pursue it. however, her right hon. and hon. Friends do not seem to On amendment 1, the Minister is right to say that as a share my confidence in her. I trust her to exercise her result of the Bill the Home Secretary is empowered to judgment. She has access to intelligence and information, take additional measures: she does not have to come and she has a huge responsibility. I do not want to tie back to Parliament; she can just take them, because the her hands so that she has a limited range of powers and legislation gives her the power to do so. I am reflecting is unable to exercise her responsibilities properly; I want carefully on what right hon. and hon. Members have to give her the powers that she needs. said about the need for parliamentary accountability and scrutiny, however, because there would not be any Hazel Blears: Government Members seem to forget direct accountability to Parliament. that because we live in a country that has a proper There would be direct accountability in relation to judicial system, should the Home Secretary exceed the amendment 2, because the Secretary of State would be reasonable use of her powers and impose a condition able to introduce the additional measures only by order, on somebody who is subject to a TPIM that is not 99 Terrorism Prevention and 5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Terrorism Prevention and 100 Investigation Measures Bill Investigation Measures Bill [Hazel Blears] trusting the Home Secretary, it is not a question of trusting an individual; I would not trust anybody with justified by the evidence, it would be a matter for the that kind of power unchecked by this Parliament. For judges. An application could be made to say that the me, that is a matter of principle, and it is not a reflection specific measure was outwith the terms of the legislation. on any individual. I am quite sure, despite what was In every order, the Home Secretary has to show that the said earlier in the debate, that I will never have that particular measures that she is imposing are necessary responsibility—I am sure that he is very glad about for the protection of the public. The idea that the Home that—but I would not trust myself to have those powers Secretary could act in an arbitrary manner, without either. reference to the information and intelligence that she I would like the Minister to clarify some issues, has, is absolutely ludicrous. The process will be subject because we have not had the chance to go through this to proper judicial oversight in our democratic country. in detail in Committee. I am uncomfortable with the idea of having emergency legislation to step up the Paul Goggins: I am pleased that my right hon. Friend powers, because I simply cannot envisage any circumstance has once again had the opportunity to remind us all of in which I would want to see it used. However, in the that oversight, which is not flimsy, but stringent. review the Government have taken the line that there are some hard to foresee possibilities where it might be Dr Huppert: First, I was going to comment that I needed. If that is the case, I think it is right to proceed in have perhaps had experience of more Home Secretaries this way. I do not necessarily agree with the Government whom I did not trust on these issues than those I did. and would have liked the review to have gone even Perhaps that will change over the years and there will be further, but I can understand where they are coming more Home Secretaries who are more trustworthy on from. civil liberties. I hope that that is the case. If that is where we are coming from, there is clearly a There is a point about judicial oversight, but there is need to have some way of installing the measure when also a point about Parliament having the chance to Parliament is not sitting. Some have misunderstood this comment on what powers it thinks are acceptable. There point as meaning that the power will be available to the is a range of things that the Home Secretary could Secretary of State when Parliament is in recess. It is argue are necessary but that Parliament would find clear that if the situation was so urgent that we needed simply unacceptable. Will the right hon. Gentleman to reduce the civil liberties that we give people during also confirm that under— recess, we should be recalled. It would be important that we were recalled. However, there is a difference Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): Order. The when there is no Parliament that can be recalled. If interventions in this debate are rather long. Perhaps the there is to be such a system, although I am not happy right hon. Gentleman will be generous enough to let the about it, I am pleased with this system and understand hon. Gentleman in for a second bite. it. I am also pleased that the Government have accepted the need for parliamentary scrutiny. That is a move Paul Goggins: I am bringing my remarks to a conclusion forward from their previous position, as I mentioned now, Mr Deputy Speaker. In response to the hon. earlier. Gentleman, I have worked with a number of Home Secretaries and I have seen this Home Secretary in 7.45 pm operation. They—even those colleagues in my party—have There are a few things that I would like to understand represented a range of different political views, but I about how the system will work. First, the clause does have trusted every single one of them with the difficult not say enough for my taste about what kind of emergency decisions that they have had to make about terrorist would be required for the Secretary of State to take suspects and others. That is bar none, including the such a temporary power during a period when there current holder of the post. I ask the hon. Gentleman to was no Parliament. There is the term “by reason of reflect on that. We have to trust our senior politicians urgency”. Perhaps I am naive about how parliamentary sometimes. That has to be within limits, of course, such legislation works, but I would like to hear more about as the judicial scrutiny and the powers in the Bill. the fact that it must be a serious case and not just Frankly, I think that this Government are in the something that has to be done now. There is a difference worst of all places. They have acknowledged that the between “urgent” and “important”, as we all know. measures in schedule 1 may not be sufficient in certain There is also a difference between “urgent”and “emergent”, circumstances, yet they are tying the Secretary of State’s if that is a valid word to use—I am sure that Hansard hands behind her back and will not give her the powers will tell me. that she needs against the risk posed by a small number I would like to know why the Minister has chosen not of individuals. The Government are in a terrible place to use the Civil Contingencies Act 2004 in this case. I and they need to think intelligently to get themselves am sure that he will be able to give a detailed response out of it. to that. I am also interested to understand what sort of Dr Huppert: Thank you very much for calling me, consultation there would be if the Secretary of State Mr Deputy Speaker, particularly given that I went on were to make an order during such a time, whether in slightly too long. I apologise for that. terms of statute or a commitment from the Government. I agree to some extent with the right hon. Member for We must bear it in mind that we are talking about the Wythenshawe and Sale East (Paul Goggins) in that I am time of a general election, when there might be particularly uncomfortable with new clause 5, but it is for completely fevered political debate. I am sure that this would not different reasons, as he might imagine. On the issue of happen with any Home Secretary whom we can envisage, 101 Terrorism Prevention and 5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Terrorism Prevention and 102 Investigation Measures Bill Investigation Measures Bill but the power could be used as a political gambit—as a before us and what the Government know they might tool to show how tough they are on the causes of crime. have to do. The new clause and the draft Bill on What sort of consultation would there be? Would there enhanced TPIMs measures published last Thursday be some kind of Privy Council process through which a represent the Government taking out an insurance policy few people are nominated to be asked? Would there be against the failure of the Bill before us this evening. judicial oversight of the process? How would that work My right hon. Friend the Member for Leicester East and what safeguards would there be? (Keith Vaz) reminded us that we are debating the matter I notice that under new clause 6, a temporary enhanced around the 10th anniversary of 11 September. It is TPIM order will last for 90 days. I should be grateful if important that the House remembers that, because that the Minister would explain why it is 90 days. It seems to incident, more than any other, forced Governments me that the starting point should be the shortest period around the world to reassess their thinking and their possible until fresh legislation can be passed. That expectations of what terrorists were capable of. It also would include the period of the election until after the forced all of us in democratic regimes to look again at Queen’s Speech. Perhaps there could be a time period the protections in law and law enforcement that we can after the Queen’s speech, even though it may not be give our citizens against terrorist activity. That is the done on day one. I would like it to be as short a time as basis of this whole debate and the Bill. possible and would at least like some justification for it We did not get here entirely by choice. We got here being 90 days. partly because of court judgments shaping the regime I will say a little about Opposition amendments 1 to for us in an involuntary way. The problem is simple: 4. I am keen that the enhanced emergency powers what do we do when we cannot bring someone to should not be available easily. I do not want them prosecution, but we have a good and reasonable suspicion gradually to become one of the normal things that a that that person would engage in terrorist activity if Home Secretary uses, with one having to be used slightly they could, and there may be inadmissible evidence that unexpectedly and then one being quite useful on another they have tried to do so? There has been an assumption occasion, until gradually they become more common, running through this debate that such people are necessarily as has happened with so many other things. For that less dangerous than those who have been convicted. reason I disagree, as I am sure Opposition Members That is not necessarily so. If they were able to carry out will not be surprised, with giving the Home Secretary their intent, they may in fact be far more dangerous these powers, whether under amendment 1 with no than people who have been convicted of other terrorist parliamentary checks, under amendment 2 with an order events. first—I would rather see the whole, tougher parliamentary The Government have published draft legislation that process, rather than a simple order—or under amendment 3 is an insurance policy against the Bill, and they cannot with the retrospective orders. have an in-principle objection to the measures within I am still concerned about proposed new subsection (2) their own draft Bill. Whereas the Bill before us states, in amendment 3, which says that the Secretary of State unbelievably, that the Secretary of State must grant can make an order and essentially do anything they terrorist suspects access to mobile phones and the internet, want, subject to judicial checks, with it being approved the draft Bill would give the Secretary of State discretion retrospectively and with no time limit. If they wished, over that. Whereas the Bill before us disarms the the Government could make sure that the Commons Government from giving the public the protection that and the Lords did not get around to voting on it for a relocation can provide, the draft Bill would reinsert that year or two years. That is a real concern. I will not say possibility. The question that the public will ask, and anything further on amendment 4 because the right which the Minister must believe they will ask very hon. Member for Wythenshawe and Sale East has made seriously should the draft legislation be needed in future, it clear that it has been subsumed. is why the Government did not include those powers in This again seems to be an effort by the Opposition to the Bill before us. Why wait until an incident has keep as much as possible of control orders. It is clear happened? that what they would like is for control orders to continue I repeat the question that I put to the Minister before. ad infinitum. If they cannot have that, they want either What would he say to the victims of terrorism in such TPIMs with control order powers or control orders for circumstances? Would he say, “We knew we might need a bit longer followed by TPIMs with control order these powers, and we could have legislated for them, but powers, or some such mixture. For those reasons, I we chose not to because we believed that the balance of disagree with their proposals. civil liberties was wrong”? I will not vote against the Government’s new clauses because I understand where they are coming from. I Richard Fuller: Will the right hon. Gentleman give hope that the Minister will respond on the detail. I hope way? that the other place will have more of a chance to consider these important issues on how we deal with Mr McFadden: Not at the moment. emergency rules during the period of a general election Let us deal with the point about civil liberties. The when there has been a serious terrorist attack. That is a Minister has said several times that the motivation complex set of things that bears more attention than we behind the Bill was a perceived imbalance in the last are able to give it here. Government’s civil liberties legislation. The notion that we are some sort of quasi-police state or overly authoritarian Mr McFadden: I will keep my remarks brief, because state is complete nonsense. In this country we enjoy I know we all want to get on to the debate about freedom of expression, religion and association that is relocation. However, I wish to say a word about new the envy of the world. That is why so many dissidents clause 5, which shows the difference between the Bill from regimes around the world have sought refuge here. 103 Terrorism Prevention and 5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Terrorism Prevention and 104 Investigation Measures Bill Investigation Measures Bill [Mr McFadden] I say to the Minister that it is clear from the draft Bill that the Government have no principled objection to Indeed, the criticism that is sometimes levelled, and the control order powers that would suddenly be available perhaps with validity, is that we have been very generous once again. As my right hon. Friend the Member for in accommodating dissidents from other regimes, and Wolverhampton South East (Mr McFadden) said, the that sometimes our freedoms have been abused by some draft Bill is an insurance policy that the Government of those individuals. It is simply the wrong analysis and are taking out on their TPIMs regime, which will decrease the wrong starting point to say that civil liberties in this and weaken the powers available to the police and the country have been fundamentally compromised. That is Home Secretary to control the behaviour of terror not the case, but because the Government believe it and suspects. It is extremely unacceptable for legislation to have carried forward into government the wrong analysis be conducted in such a way. Control order powers are that they developed in opposition, that is leading to the either needed or they are not. This Bill has used up wrong policy and to greater risk for the public. New many hours of parliamentary time to take us round in a clause 5 addresses that to some extent, but people will circle and bring us back to exactly where we started, not understand why it, and the draft emergency legislation, with control orders. were not put into the Bill. Rather than introduce this confused and fudged Bill, which raises many more questions, the Government Shabana Mahmood: I am conscious of the time and should have been honest and admitted that sometimes, the fact that we have to get on to new clause 1, on stringent control order measures such as relocation and relocation, ahead of Third Reading, so I will try to keep 16-hour curfews are necessary. They should therefore my remarks reasonably brief. have put them in the Bill that we are debating today. I endorse the remarks of my right hon. Friend the I am afraid that the “argument on context”—that Member for Wythenshawe and Sale East (Paul Goggins) there is a standard context that would require only the about the draft Bill. He spoke having been a member of standard TPIM, and an emergency context in which the the Committee that considered the draft Detention of enhanced TPIM might be required—does not hold up Terrorist Suspects (Temporary Extensions) Bill, the findings to any kind of scrutiny, because control orders and of which are important and directly relevant to the TPIMs, if they are introduced, are at the emergency end draft emergency legislation that the Government printed of what we do. They are not brought in lightly and have a few days ago. As he pointed out, although that always been emergency measures. Committee understood the Government’s reasons for proposing that contingency powers to extend the maximum 8pm period for pre-charge detention should be provided in primary legislation so that they could be subject to I was disappointed that the Minister chose to describe parliamentary scrutiny, it still found a number of problems. control orders, and indeed TPIMs, as “business as Those problems exist also in relation to the draft enhanced usual”. That was a disappointing way of characterising TPIMs Bill, and it is important that we take a moment them: it was lazy and potentially dangerous, because it to remind ourselves of what the objections were. implies that it is par for the course to apply such The first objection was in relation to parliamentary measures, and that that happens in the normal run of scrutiny of a draft Bill as primary legislation. The things. Control orders never happened in the normal debate that would take place would be so circumscribed run of things; they were and always have been exceptional. by the difficulties of explaining the reasons for introducing TPIMs will also be exceptional, so saying that they are primary legislation that it would not be possible for the an exceptional version of something that is already House to be given proper reasons why we needed to exceptional, or for use in an “emergency emergency”, proceed along that route. In relation to the 28-day simply will not work. The Minister should be up front detention powers, the risk was that a court case might with the House and the public on that point. be prejudiced. In this case the objection is even more The framework in which we expect our police and important, because we are talking about intelligence security services to operate is also important. In our evidence that has been gathered by the security services, discussion on sunset clauses, the Minister spoke of the which of course cannot be discussed openly. That is the importance of a settled position, so that the police can whole reason why we have closed sessions of courts to plan, but the provisions are creating a more unsettled consider such matters—they cannot enter into the public position, which prompts the question of how the police domain. That rather defeats the purpose of having any can plan for the terrorist risk that we face. We should debate on the Floor of the House. have a more settled framework, but the draft legislation The second objection was that there would be an does not bring that about—it raises many more questions. unacceptable degree of risk that it would be impossible When replying to the debate I ask the Minister to to introduce and pass the legislation quickly when turn his mind to the specifics of when those powers will Parliament was in recess. Although that objection referred be used. In particular, would the circumstances of the to the 28-day detention power, it is also important in case of CD trigger the passing of the draft Bill? That this case. Counter-terror investigations are fast-moving, individual was relocated because he needed to be removed and it is not acceptable to say to the police that their from London, where he was trying to gather weapons reaction to investigations should be hampered while and engage in a Mumbai-style attack. Would that be an Parliament debates the matter, perhaps in a limited way, emergency situation in which the Home Secretary would and decides to pass an Act. That would not be an choose to trigger the draft Bill? acceptable way to proceed. The hon. Member for Cambridge (Dr Huppert) asked The third objection related to the period when Parliament whether the mere fact that we are having the Olympics has been dissolved, but as we can see, that is precisely next year would be enough to trigger the draft Bill. what new clauses 5 and 6 are intended to address. What if resources are stretched? What if the impact of 105 Terrorism Prevention and 5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Terrorism Prevention and 106 Investigation Measures Bill Investigation Measures Bill the cuts is too great for the police, even given the attacks to follow. Parliament will need to approve the additional resources that will be available to them under emergency legislation for it to come into force. Ultimately, the TPIMs regime? Would that be classed as an emergency therefore, it would be for Parliament to determine whether that requires the passing of the draft Bill? We need clear the circumstances are exceptional in that way. answers from the Minister on how that will work. In response to the points made by my hon. Friend the Without them, the House will be expected to legislate in Member for Cambridge (Dr Huppert), I would highlight the dark, which is an unacceptable way for us to proceed. the fact that clearly there are additional safeguards for The Opposition do not want the Secretary of State to the new clauses to cover the period during a general be in a position in which she does not have the powers election, when the House is unable to pass emergency she needs to cope with an emergency when Parliament legislation. The enhanced measures will be subject to a is dissolved, so we will not oppose Government new higher legal test. The Secretary of State must be satisfied clauses 5 or 6. However, we have grave concerns about that the person is or has been involved in terrorism-related how the Government are proceeding with their draft activity on the balance of probabilities, which is a legislation. They are exposing the fiction that has been higher threshold than reasonable belief, which is the test at the heart of the control orders debate, which is based for imposing standard TPIMs. more on a political fudge than on an assessment of the The comprehensive judicial oversight of standard security needs of the country. We need clearer answers TPIM notices will also apply to the enhanced measures, from the Government on that point. including a requirement for court permission before imposing measures; an automatic and full High Court James Brokenshire: I am not quite sure how to respond review of the decision to impose the enhanced TPIM to the lack of coherence in the previous contribution—the notice, and each of the measures specified in it; and Opposition fundamentally oppose something, but then rights of appeal against decisions taken by the Secretary say that they support new clauses 5 and 6—but I shall of State when the measures are in force. Therefore, the seek to respond to the points that have been raised in intent is that the broader safeguards will apply in the the course of the debate. context of those situations. I again return to the counter-terrorism review. The I hear what my hon. Friend the Member for Cambridge measures are not a surprise—it is not as though they says about his discomfort with the contexts in which we were not set out clearly back when the counter-terrorism would need such provisions. We are all in that situation. reported in the early part of this year. The review Equally, we have considered carefully the potential of concluded that alternatives. He highlighted the possibilities of the Civil “there may be exceptional circumstances where it could be necessary Contingencies Act 2004. However, careful reflection on for the Government to seek Parliamentary approval for additional both sides of the House leads us to consider that that restrictive measures. In the event of a very serious terrorist risk would not be a useful or usable route in dealing with the that cannot be managed by any other means more stringent measures may be required.” circumstances that we are contemplating. The 2004 Act has been considered on both sides of the House, but its Therefore, to suggest that this situation has just happened mechanisms and its structure do not lend themselves and that it was not foretold highlights the lack of easily to the scenarios and situations in which we would reading of the counter-terrorism review when it was consider using TPIMS—indeed, the Act was in many published earlier this year. ways directed more to dealing with floods, epidemics The Government consider that the enhanced powers and those sorts of problems. Although I understand will not routinely be needed, and that the standard why my hon. Friend raises that point, as hon. Members TPIM Bill will provide robust powers to protect the have done in the past, we consider that the 2004 Act public. We also consider that there may be circumstances does not provide a workable mechanism to cover such in which more stringent powers will be needed. However, circumstances. such powers should be introduced only at that time—they We believe that the draft emergency Bill would provide should not be routinely available on the statute book. a mechanism to deal with a situation while Parliament Obviously I accept that there is a clear difference of was either sitting or in recess, although we accept the opinion. During previous contributions from Opposition need to legislate in this Bill to cover a period during a Front Benchers, I was minded to believe that control general election. I am pleased to note that the Opposition orders were the default. That appeared to be the approach are prepared to support the new clauses that are taken by the previous Government, which is why this contemplated, although clearly there are differences Government undertook our counter-terrorism review over the emergency Bill itself. However, a Joint Committee and why we have sought to rebalance the provisions will obviously be established to consider, scrutinise and contained in the legislation. examine the matter in detail in the way one would I appreciate the points made by right hon. and hon. expect from the House and no doubt to improve, make Members about the term “exceptional circumstances”. suggestions and make amendments to the daft Bill. As I have said, that would be when we are faced with a serious terrorist risk that cannot be managed by any Mark Durkan: The Minister has talked about these other means. It would be inappropriate to say, “Would extra bat belt powers, shall we say, that might be available it apply in this or that control order case?” I am not to the Home Secretary and activated by a draft Bill. I prepared to second-guess future developments in the have a question about the parliamentary situation that threat picture, and the circumstances might be hard to would then be created. If those powers were activated in predict. However, credible reporting could point to a relation to a particular threat, hon. Members would series of concurrent attack plots, all of which appear receive all sorts of instructions and advice not to mention imminent, or it might apply in the wake of a major specific cases in the Chamber, but the chances are that terrorist attack when there is the prospect of further the media would be full of suggestions and innuendos 107 Terrorism Prevention and 5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Terrorism Prevention and 108 Investigation Measures Bill Investigation Measures Bill [Mark Durkan] week. I am not going to second-guess anything, however, and I very much look forward to the scrutiny that will against particular individuals or locations. In those be applied to that draft Bill in the weeks ahead. circumstances, how would Parliament discharge the This has been a useful debate on a number of issues awkward responsibilities that the clause would give it? that I am sure the Joint Committee will consider further The Opposition in the previous Parliament made exactly in relation to the draft Bill. I welcome the support for those valid arguments against the then Government’s the new clauses contemplated in this group. It is, in our measures in respect of 42-day detention activated on judgment, the appropriate way to proceed in framing the basis of parliamentary approval. the powers available under the TPIM Bill and why we equally believe, given the nature of the impositions that James Brokenshire: I know that the hon. Member has would otherwise be imposed, that those measures should made that point before. I responded to him then as well. be put on a different basis, why Parliament should be I think that the House is able to debate the principle of engaged in activating those measures in extreme the underlying issues, although in relation to detailed, circumstances and why we have sought to structure the confidential briefings and so on, we would seek to Bill and the draft emergency Bill in the way that we provide more detailed information to Opposition have. spokespeople on privy counsellor terms, as appropriate, Question put and agreed to. in order to assist debate. However, we believe that New clause 5 accordingly read a Second time, and Parliament is able to consider emergency legislation in added to the Bill. that way. In many ways, it is important to put out the draft legislation now to ensure that there is a mechanism—a New Clause 6 tool—that has been considered coolly and calmly outside some of the febrile situations that understandably arise TEMPORARY POWER: SUPPLEMENTARY PROVISION in the sorts of horrendous situations that, sadly, we ‘(1) A temporary enhanced TPIM order, except for designated have seen in the past. That is why it is important that we transitional and saving provision, ceases to have effect— have the scrutiny that would be applied by a Joint (a) at the end of the period of 90 days beginning with the Committee—and obviously it is for the House to resolve day on which the Secretary of State makes the order, the matters around that. That is an important way of or ensuring that legislation is considered in a more rational (b) at such earlier time (if any) as is specified in the order. way. (2) The Secretary of State may by order revoke some or all of a temporary enhanced TPIM order if the Secretary of State Paul Goggins: The Minister has been very generous considers it appropriate to do so (whether or not the Secretary of in giving way this evening. He has refused to be drawn State would have power to make a temporary enhanced TPIM order by virtue of section (Temporary power for imposition of on “second-guessing”, as he put it, the level of threat enhanced measures)(1)). that would lead him or the Home Secretary to believe that these enhanced TPIM powers were necessary.However, (3) As soon as practicable after making— he said that part of his consideration would be whether (a) a temporary enhanced TPIM order, or the threat was “imminent”—that was the word he used. (b) an order revoking any provision of a temporary An “imminent threat” could mean the next 12 hours, enhanced TPIM order, the next 24 hours, the next 48 hours or the next week. the Secretary of State must lay before each House of How does he square that level of risk with the fact that Parliament a copy of the order that has been made. he is prepared to put measures in the Bill that would (4) Anything which has been done by virtue of a temporary require separate primary legislation that might take at enhanced TPIM order is not affected by the temporary enhanced least a week to procure—perhaps even longer during TPIM order ceasing to have effect. recess? How can he square those two things? In my (5) In section (Temporary power for imposition of enhanced view, they simply cannot be squared. measures) and this section— “appropriate”, in relation to variations, or other James Brokenshire: It was precisely to ensure that provision, means such variations, or such other provision, as the Secretary of State considers legislation could be secured quickly that we have published appropriate; the draft Bill now—to aid in that consideration and to “designated transitional and saving provision” means ensure that matters could be dealt with swiftly. I recognise provision of a temporary enhanced TPIM order that the right hon. Gentleman does not accept the which is designated, in a temporary enhanced principle of emergency legislation, and I know that he TPIM order, as transitional and saving provision has taken that approach consistently. There is a difference for the purposes of this section; of view about the enhanced powers and the basis on “enactment” includes— which they are set, and I do not think that we are likely (a) an enactment contained in subordinate legislation to resolve that difference between us. within the meaning of the Interpretation Act 1978, 8.15 pm (b) an enactment contained in, or in an instrument made under, an Act of the Scottish Parliament, We believe that the provisions in the Bill are appropriate, (c) an enactment contained in, or in an instrument and that they provide the necessary assurances about made under, Northern Ireland legislation, and the risks and enhanced capabilities that the police and (d) an enactment contained in, or in an instrument security services will have. However, as I have said, we made under, a Measure or Act of the sadly have to accept that there may be exceptional National Assembly for Wales; circumstances, which is precisely why we believe that it “enhanced measure” has the meaning given in section is appropriate for the Government to put in place the (Temporary power for imposition of enhanced measures in the Bill and the draft Bill published last measures)(3); 109 Terrorism Prevention and 5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Terrorism Prevention and 110 Investigation Measures Bill Investigation Measures Bill “enhanced TPIM notice” means notice by which the ‘(c) any other premises specified by the Secretary of State enhanced TPIM power is exercised; under section 2A(1)’. “enhanced TPIM power” means the power to impose Government amendments 17 and 18. enhanced measures that is referred to in section (Temporary power for imposition of enhanced Amendment 7, page 18, line 11, at end insert— measures)(2); ‘(3) A specified area or place or a specified description of an “relevant provisions of this Act” mean all the area or place may include the individual’s own residence or a provisions of this Act, apart from— locality with which the individual has a connection in accordance (a) section1 (abolition of control orders), with paragraph 1(4)(a) and 1(4)(b).’. (b) section5(2) and (3) (extension of TPIM notices), Hazel Blears: I am delighted that my new clause has (c) section13(6)(a) (revival of TPIM notice after been selected. The Minister will know from our lengthy expiry), debates in Committee that this is the issue about which I (d) sections (Expiry and repeal of TPIM powers) feel most passionately and which I believe is one of the (expiry and repeal of TPIM powers) and biggest flaws in the Bill. The Government’s decision not section (section (Expiry and repeal of TPIM to have a power of relocation is fundamentally flawed powers): supplementary provision) (section and flies in the face of the evidence, of logic and not (Expiry and repeal of TPIM powers): supplementary provision), only of my personal views, but of the views of some (e) section (Temporary power for imposition of very, very knowledgeable and experienced people in the enhanced measures) and this section, police, of Lord Carlile, the independent reviewer, and (f) section25 (financial and supplemental provision, Lord Howard, the former Home Secretary—a range of (g) section27(1) and (2) (short and people who feel that the Government are limiting their commencement), and options for controlling suspected terrorists and providing (h) Schedules7 (minor and consequential amendments) the public with the security and protection that we, as and8 (transitional and saving provision); parliamentarians, have a responsibility to try to achieve. “standard TPIM notice” means a notice under section2; My new clause 1 is a simple and straightforward “temporary enhanced TPIM order” has the meaning measure that would provide that the Secretary of State given in section (Temporary power for imposition may include in a TPIM notice the power to direct that a of enhanced measures)(2).’.—(James Brokenshire.) terrorist suspect should reside at a specific address that Brought up, read the First and Second time, and added is not his home address or an address with which he has to the Bill. a connection, as is provided for in current legislation. To tie the Home Secretary’s hands in providing that a suspected terrorist has either to live at home or in the New Clause 1 area where his known associates are gathered is absolutely ludicrous. Therefore, my amendment would provide RELOCATION OF TERRORIST SUSPECTS that the Secretary of State may direct that the suspected ‘The Secretary of State may include in a TPIM Notice a terrorist is relocated to a different area so that they can requirement that an individual shall reside at a specified address be properly monitored and the public protected. in any place in the United Kingdom if the conditions in paragraphs (a) or (b) are met— Richard Fuller: The right hon. Lady made a forceful (a) the Secretary of State must reasonably believe that the opening to her comments, and I am interested to listen individual is more likely to be involved in terrorism- related activity if he resides at his own residence, or further. In her advocacy of enforced relocation, has she looked for inspiration to other democratic countries (b) the individual is more likely to be involved in terrorism- related activity if he resides in a locality in the United that forcibly relocate people who have not been subject Kingdom with which he has a connection.’.—(Hazel to a trial? Blears.) Brought up, and read the First time. Hazel Blears: There is a range of examples of countries that have attempted to deal with the threat for international Hazel Blears: I beg to move, That the clause be read a terrorism with different legal provisions. France is often Second time. cited as a place where people are brought to trial under the criminal justice system. People are often held for Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): With this it months, if not years, under the investigatory process will be convenient to discuss the following: New clause 2 adopted by an inquiring magistrate. Indeed, the powers —Relocation of terrorist suspects (No. 2) in some European countries are perhaps more draconian— the hon. Gentleman’s words, not mine—than any that ‘(1) The Secretary of State may impose a requirement for relocation on the individual if the Secretary of State has a we have ever had on our statute book. Therefore, to try reasonable belief that the individual will engage in terrorism- to portray our country as one that does not accord with related activity if the individual remains at their current location. the rule of law or have effective judicial oversight, as the (2) The individual may be relocated for residence purposes to a hon. Member for Cambridge (Dr Huppert) has on a locality deemed appropriate by the Secretary of State and in line number of occasions, is an absolute travesty when we with this locality being a place or area of a specified description. look at the real circumstances. (3) This measure may remain in place for the duration of the TPIM.’. Richard Fuller: I am grateful to the right hon. Lady Government amendment 16. for giving way, and I shall enjoy the opportunity to ask her the question again. The question was not about Amendment 5, page 16, line 21, leave out ‘must’ and draconian measures. She is advocating a specific measure— insert ‘may’. forced relocation—and my question was specific. What Amendment 6, page 16, line 24, at end insert— other democratic countries has she used as her inspiration 111 Terrorism Prevention and 5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Terrorism Prevention and 112 Investigation Measures Bill Investigation Measures Bill [Richard Fuller] power of relocation, which the Home Secretary had imposed relatively recently, was upheld as a necessary for this measure—which she makes out to be so power to protect the public. This is not a case of important—which involves the forced relocation of people draconian Governments, or authoritarian or totalitarian who have not been convicted in a trial? regimes wanting to impose controls for their own sake; it is always a matter of balance, and trying to mitigate Hazel Blears: I have not used any other country as the risk and draw the line in the correct place, so that we my inspiration. What I have used, as my commitment in can maintain essential freedoms in this country, which new clause 1, is a genuine analysis of the evidence include the freedom of the public to go about their provided by the police and other experienced people in law-abiding business without being threatened with death the field in asking what measures we can take to ensure and destruction by some of the most committed terrorists that the public are properly protected from the serious in this country. harm intended them by some of the most dangerous people in this country. It is right and proper that our Mr McFadden: My right hon. Friend is making an Parliament should decide of its own volition what the eloquent speech about the reality of the situations that appropriate measures are. We do not always look to we face. Let me quote to her what the judge said about other countries, which have very different legal systems relocation in the case of CD: to ours. I am absolutely convinced that the power of “I have concluded that the relocation obligation is a necessary relocation can add to the security of this nation, which and proportionate measure to protect the public from the risk of is my prime and most important concern when looking what is an immediate and real risk of a terrorist related attack. at this legislation. While he is living in London there is a significant risk that he will I want to emphasise the point that the kind of people take part in terrorism-related activities, notwithstanding the high subject to either control orders or, in future, TPIMs are level of protection implicit in the obligations which are not under unfortunately some of the most dangerous people we challenge.” could ever have to deal with in this country. There has Does she agree that that shows the danger? Will she also been some suggestion that people who have been prosecuted speculate about why the Government are so determined through the criminal justice system are somehow more to deprive the public, whom we represent, of the protections dangerous than those who are subject to administrative afforded by the current relocation provisions? orders. If hon. Members looked at the judgments of High Court or Court of Appeal judges who have seen Hazel Blears: My right hon. Friend is absolutely right the intelligence and the information about the people about the case of CD. We had a long discussion in upon whom we seek to impose such orders, they would Committee about the need for a relocation clause and perhaps revise their position. There are currently only about the judge’s comments. Indeed, the judge in that 12 such individuals subject to control orders, and the case said that since CD’s return, expressions used by judges in relation to them include “he has endeavoured to obtain firearms on a number of occasions “trained soldiers”and “committed terrorists”, determined from a number of associates for the purposes of putting into to be martyrs to their cause and determined, whatever effect a planned terrorist attack, has held covert meetings with steps we take, to cause the maximum harm to innocent associates in relation to plans to use the firearms as part of his people in this country. Those are statements by judges, planned attack and has displayed a very high level of security not given to florid language, having seen the intelligence awareness.” that the services hold in relation to some of those people. It was on those grounds that the judge decided that the We are talking about a maximum of a dozen people relocation condition was absolutely appropriate in who are very dangerous indeed. That is the measure controlling CD’s activities. As for my right hon. Friend’s that we must use in asking what the powers that we are second question, about why the Government have been seeking to use are, whether they are proportionate and so reluctant to provide the Home Secretary with the whether they are the right powers. It is my submission power to relocate—not the duty to do so in every case, that the power of relocation of some of the most but the power where necessary—I believe that this is dangerous people in our country—committed terrorists—is part of a political accommodation with the Liberal actually a proportionate power to use. Democrats and that this will be revealed in all its rather distasteful details in due course. Paul Goggins: I am sure that my right hon. Friend will give more details later about the case of BM, which Stephen Pound (Ealing North) (Lab): Everyone in involved one of the two relocation appeals challenged this House knows the wealth, depth and breadth of my by the Home Secretary, successfully on both occasions. right hon. Friend’s experience: she has seen evil in close To underline what she has just said, BM conceded in the quarters. However, does she not agree that we would hearing that took place—this was not a point made by not even need to discuss this issue if many of the people the security services; he conceded it—that he is indeed involved were deported and sent back to their countries “committed to terrorism, in particular to terrorism in Pakistan”, of origin, as they should be? Would it not be a little and that he more helpful if this multicoloured Government assisted “wishes to carry out that commitment by travelling to that us in that endeavour, in particular with memorandums region” of understanding, which they oppose so strongly? Then to take part in terrorist acts himself. It is by his own we would not have to worry about how many miles someone admission that that is the level of threat that he poses. was from London, because they would be in Jordan.

Hazel Blears: My right hon. Friend is absolutely Hazel Blears: My hon. Friend also has considerable right: in that case BM did concede that he was determined experience in relation to terrorism and the necessary to carry out terrorist activity, and it was right that the laws. We did our utmost to try to negotiate memorandums 113 Terrorism Prevention and 5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Terrorism Prevention and 114 Investigation Measures Bill Investigation Measures Bill of understanding with other countries so that deportation “If an empirical decision has been made that somebody should could take place. We were successful in a number of be relocated and that decision has been upheld by the courts, cases, albeit perhaps not with as many countries as we there is generally a good reason for it. The risk is increased if one wanted. Equally, however, he must acknowledge that person has the relocation condition removed. If nine people have relocation conditions removed and therefore are all able to move unfortunately we now have the issue of domestic, home- closer either to one another, or to their contact to whom they grown terrorists—people who cannot be deported and would wish to be close, plainly you are right that there is an who were brought up in this country. Therefore, we increased risk.”––[Official Report, Terrorism Prevention and need laws that provide sufficient security for those Investigation Measures Public Bill Committee, 22 June 2011; circumstances, as well as for where terrorists come from c. 17.] abroad. There are currently nine control order suspects with a I want to cite a bit of evidence, because evidence is relocation condition. important, and otherwise this debate is in danger of More than half the present suspects who are subject becoming a politician’s polemic. I want to quote again to a control order come from London, and if the from the evidence that DAC Osborne gave us in Committee. legislation goes through we face the possibility that they I am beginning to feel slightly sorry for the poor man. I could return to London before the Olympics. In my questioned him quite vigorously on relocation, and he view, that is a totally unnecessary risk to take. It places said: layers of risk upon risk. What better circumstances “The relocation issue has been very useful for us being able to could al-Qaeda want for a spectacular event than the monitor and enforce at the current time. Without that relocation, Olympics, when the world’s eyes are upon us? Yet at the and depending on where people choose to live, that could be very same time, the Bill is proposing to deny the Home significantly more difficult. Where the choice of residence will be Secretary the power of a relocation clause that would and how many people are within an area will affect the complexities, but there are different environments that make policing easier or ensure that some of those people would remain in other more difficult. People could choose to live in an area that was areas of the country—the midlands, Norwich, Leicester difficult to police in normal circumstances, and that would be or wherever—and not congregate with their associates even more difficult to police in relation to monitoring control back in London, where they could resume their plotting order subjects.” and their attack capabilities. He was then asked a very good question by my hon. Friend the Member for Newport East (Jessica Morden). Bob Stewart: I have asked this question of the Minister, She asked whether but I have not yet had an answer. Would not enhanced “of all the measures available to you, is it fair to say that TPIMs allow some form of internal exile or removal to relocation is the most effective?” another place? I ask because I am genuinely not sure, DAC Stuart Osborne, the national co-ordinator for but if they would, we would at least have that provision counter-terrorism, replied: in the legislation. “Overall it probably is, yes.” That response comes from someone who has been Hazel Blears: I acknowledge that the hon. Gentleman engaged in dealing with suspected terrorists on a day-to-day has asked that question but not received a response to operational basis. He says that relocation is the most it. I have the utmost respect for his experience in these effective measure that he could have to help him to matters. He is almost unique among us in having had police in these circumstances and to protect the public. experience on the ground of effective surveillance and That is a very powerful submission indeed. He went on the need to control terrorist suspects. In Committee, he to say of the provisions in the Bill: thought very carefully about these issues, and he has already said tonight that he is concerned about the “The new freedoms that will be given to individuals will question of resources and that he might well consider significantly increase the challenges that we have to face”.––[Official Report, Terrorism Prevention and Investigation Measures Public supporting the Opposition’s amendment. I would welcome Bill Committee, 22 June 2011; c. 5-6.] it enormously if, having thought carefully about the relocation question, he felt able to support us on that as DAC Osborne is a well respected police officer with well, given his practical experience and amazing depth considerable experience, and his views should be accorded of understanding of these issues. some importance by the Government. I just want to say a word about why we have ended up in this ludicrous position. I say this with respect to the 8.30 pm Minister. I respect him, and he does his job with incredible We also heard evidence from Lord Howard. Like my dedication and commitment, but in these circumstances hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Ladywood he has ended up in a position that might well come back (Shabana Mahmood), I would not normally pray him to haunt him. I think he knows that that position is in aid, but he said: untenable. Effectively, his decisions are flying in the face “If you ask me my personal view, however, I would have of the evidence of the police, of Lord Carlile and of a preferred the relocation provisions to have remained.”––[Official former Home Secretary, and they will leave him without Report, Terrorism Prevention and Investigation Measures Public the power to order relocation, should he need it. Bill Committee, 22 June 2011; c. 17.] This brings us back to the language that the Liberal Speaking from his experience as Home Secretary, he Democrats have used time and again in the debate on said that the provisions should be retained. these issues. They have talked about house arrest and Lord Carlile was the independent reviewer for 10 years; internal exile. It is my belief that the counter-terrorism he has not come to the issue recently. He has looked at review, which the Minister has sought to rely on to every single control order and talked to the people who justify all the steps that he has taken, is a political are the subject of the orders. He has gone into immense accommodation. Before the election, the Liberal detail. He told the Committee: Democrats— 115 Terrorism Prevention and 5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Terrorism Prevention and 116 Investigation Measures Bill Investigation Measures Bill Tom Brake (Carshalton and Wallington) (LD) rose— Tom Brake: I am happy to intervene; I had hoped that the right hon. Lady would give way earlier. As to the enhanced TPIMs Bill, what we have said is that we Hazel Blears: I am going to make this point. Before would need to consider the extraordinary circumstances the election, the Liberal Democrats said that they wanted that applied at the time. Certainly neither my hon. to see the complete abolition of control orders because Friend the Member for Cambridge (Dr Huppert) nor I they were an insult to our civil liberties and to democratic can envisage the extraordinary circumstances that would society. They made that decision prior to coming into apply in which relocation powers would be acceptable. government and certainly without being privy to the We will have to wait and see what scenario might develop. available intelligence about these suspects. In fact, in his evidence, Lord Carlile said: Hazel Blears: That is a very interesting reply—that a “I have a concern about the genesis of this Bill. It arose from Liberal Democrat cannot envisage the exceptional coalition politics—I am aware of the process that occurred—and circumstances in which a relocation power might be it is a compromise…it is the sufficient lowest common multiple, necessary. I look forward to the scrutiny and to finding and it will do. However, it does not provide as much public out whether there will be harmony between both parts protection as control orders, and it would be foolish to ignore that of the coalition on this issue. I believe that the fault line fact.” that is emerging will go deeper and deeper, and I am sure He went on to say that that it will begin to crack as the debate goes forward. “my party made a serious mistake in committing itself to the My amendments are pretty straightforward. Ironically, abolition of control orders. It made that mistake understandably, the relocation power is available if there is police bail, however, because it did not have the information at the time.”––[Official but the amendments on police bail from the hon. Member Report, Terrorism Prevention and Investigation Measures Public for Cambridge (Dr Huppert) have not come forward. If Bill Committee, 21 June 2011; c. 21-22, Qs 66 and 67.] police bail is granted, there is a relocation power. This is What we have seen is political rhetoric and a particular beyond the power of words to express. I cannot for the stance being taken by the Liberal Democrat part of the life of me see why a relocation power is acceptable if coalition, with the Conservative part finding itself in there is police bail, but not when we are dealing with a the unenviable position of trying to accommodate that suspected terrorist, who might be one of the most situation. Because of the use of terms like “house dangerous people in the country. We can have a relocation arrest”and “internal exile”, the relocation powers became power for someone involved in serious fraud or serious the centre around which this accommodation has had crime, but not for someone we suspect wants to harm to be drawn. hundreds of people through a terrorist act. Again, this Let me say to the Minister that the deal that was done defies logic. That is why I genuinely believe that this is will lead us to bad legislation and it will come back to the result of political accommodation not the result of haunt us. I hope and pray that we do not have an a logical decision by Ministers. incident in which somebody who has not been subjected Amendments 5 and 6 are consequential to the new to relocation is able to resume his contacts with his clause, but amendment 7 is slightly different, and I co-conspirators, to further a plot to attack this country should welcome the Minister’s response to it. It seeks to and to execute that plot because there was no power to ensure that it will be possible to exclude a terrorist relocate that person to another part of the country. I suspect from an area although his own residence, or a hope and pray that that will never be the case. I would residence with which he has a connection, may be in certainly not have made the decision to deny a Minister that area. At present there is a contradiction in the Bill. the right to make a relocation order in order to reach a It is not clear whether the entitlement of a terrorist political accommodation. suspect to live in his own property, or in a property in an area where he has a connection, will take precedence In my view—I hope it is shared across the House and over the exclusion power, or whether the exclusion I hope the Minister shares it—national security is far power will take precedence over his right to remain in too important to be the subject, as Lord Carlile said, of his own home. “coalition politics”. This should be about a clear-headed analysis of risk and the steps that need to be taken that For example, if a terrorist suspect’s home were in east are proportionate to mitigate that risk. At the forefront London, in the area of the Olympics, would he be allowed of our minds and reflected in every step we take should to live there, or could he be excluded? In Committee we be the protection of this country’s innocent people so were told that it would be possible to exclude people that they can walk the streets in safety and security. from the area of the Olympics—or, indeed, to exclude them from a whole borough of London, or even from I do not believe that the decision to deny the power of the whole of Greater London. It seems to me that, as relocation meets any of those tests. It is illogical. I can the Bill stands, if a terrorist suspect had a home in such only believe that the Bill has no power of relocation a borough, or in London as a whole, the right of an because of a political accommodation designed to enable individual to remain in his own home would take precedence the Liberal Democrat part of the coalition to save face over the exclusion power, and that strikes me as a by saying that it had done some kind of deal. That is gaping hole in the legislation. I must ask the Minister to why the Liberal Democrats are so angry about the think about that very carefully, and to consider supporting prospect of a relocation clause being in the enhanced amendment 7 if he is certain that he wants the power to TPIMs Bill, because that would mean that the principle exclude people from areas of particular danger, which of a relocation clause had been conceded. I would be could include that around the Olympics. interested to know, particularly from the right hon. Member for Carshalton and Wallington (Tom Brake), Tom Brake: It gives me great pleasure to rise to whether he will support the enhanced TPIMs Bill when oppose the amendments tabled by the right hon. Member it comes up for scrutiny. Perhaps he will tell us now. for Salford and Eccles (Hazel Blears), and first of all to 117 Terrorism Prevention and 5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Terrorism Prevention and 118 Investigation Measures Bill Investigation Measures Bill deal with her oft-repeated allegation that getting rid of place and in the Lords and that will be the appropriate relocation is a sweetener for the Liberal Democrats. She way forward. We can then discuss whether relocation is quoted Lord Carlile, and clearly that is his view, but I required in those circumstances, but to have it on the should be interested to know what evidence he has to statute book now as something that the Government support his contention. Equally, the right hon. Lady could be tempted to adopt, would be regrettable. That is might want to offset his view against that of Lord why I am happy to oppose the right hon. Lady’s new Macdonald. I think it incumbent on her to produce clause. more evidence to support her allegation that a stitch-up or deal has been done on behalf of the Liberal Democrats. Shabana Mahmood: I am mindful of the time, so I She was, of course, a member of the Bill Committee will try to keep my comments relatively brief. and she will have heard a number of Conservative Members speak out against powers of relocation, so I I endorse the powerful contribution made by my think she will know that it is incorrect to suggest that right hon. Friend the Member for Salford and Eccles only Liberal Democrats are advancing this argument. (Hazel Blears). She spoke with great passion about an issue that has concerned her for some time. It certainly The right hon. Lady says that she feels strongly about concerned her in Committee, and it has concerned the issue. So do I. I wonder whether she has had a Opposition Front Benchers, too. chance to talk to some of the people who have been subject to control orders that have subsequently been Relocation has been a central issue in the debates that quashed because it was found that there was no genuine we have had about the Bill, both on Second Reading or strong evidence against them. I wonder whether she and in Committee, and it is one of the most important has heard from those people about the impact of relocation issues that we are taking forward on Report. New on them as individuals, and on their families. I think clause 1 seeks to add the power of relocation to the Bill that if she wants to be fully informed about all aspects to replicate the position in relation to control orders of the matter, she should hear from people who have under the Prevention of Terrorism Act 2005. subsequently been found to be innocent. It is clear from the evidence that the relocation power As the right hon. Lady may know, I have heard from has proved extremely useful in disrupting terrorist activity. a reliable source that of the people who are currently It is regularly described by police and others as one of held under control orders, probably two or three present the most useful and effective powers that they have a real and serious threat to United Kingdom security. I under the control orders regime. We know that nine of acknowledge that—clearly—a limited number of people the 12 current control orders have relocation as part of do represent a serious threat, and I think that that is the control order. why the Government have rightly announced that the The importance of relocation as a measure to be package of measures to get rid of relocation will include made available to the police in meeting the terror threat additional surveillance resources to ensure that security was made clear at the evidence sessions held by the and safety are maintained. Public Bill Committee. We heard evidence from Deputy Assistant Commissioner Stuart Osborne, for whom, Bob Stewart: If one or two people might create a like my right hon. Friend said, I am starting to feel threat, why are we tying the hands of the Home Secretary? slightly sorry. She quoted him, but I will repeat the The provision does not have to be used, but what important bit of the quote again because it will concentrate worries me is that we might need it for just one or two the mind of the House: people. Why should we decide that we cannot use such a “The relocation issue has been very useful for us being able to facility? monitor and enforce at the current time. Without that relocation, and depending on where people choose to live, that could be Tom Brake: The reason I do not think we should use significantly more difficult.” it is linked to what was said earlier about the term He added: “internal exile”. I know that the right hon. Lady does “The new freedoms that will be given to individuals will not like the phrase “internal exile”, but in practice that significantly increase the challenges that we have to face, and is what we are talking about. She was asked whether she managing those challenges will increase the resources that we took inspiration from any democratic countries in adopting need. The degree to which we are successful in managing them the policy of relocation and she said that she did not. I depends on both the extent of the Bill and the additional resources suspect that she may have found it hard to find inspiration that we get.”––[Official Report, Terrorism Prevention and Investigation Measures Public Bill Committee, 21 June 2011; c. 5-6, Qs 10 and in the extent to which other democratic countries allow 14.] such a policy, so she has been inspired herself to come forward with the proposal to reinstate relocation. The importance of relocation as a measure was further highlighted by Lord Howard and Lord Carlile. Lord That gets to the heart of what the debate is about. It Howard, the former Home Secretary, has described the is about where the balance between civil liberties and power as the single most useful power in ensuring that security lies and where we can achieve enhanced civil the package of measures that we have is sufficient to liberties at the same time as maintaining security. That keep us safe. is where the additional surveillance that the Government are putting in place kicks in. It is clear from the evidence that the police gave to the Committee that the additional risk created by removing relocation from the TPIMs regime could be mitigated 8.45 pm by the additional resources, but it would not be eliminated Therefore, I am happy to oppose the proposals. and there are of course degrees of mitigation. In Committee, Relocation is to all intents and purposes internal exile. DAC Osborne was only “hopeful” that the risk would If the overriding threat scenario emerges at some point, not increase if the Bill were passed, which does not fill we may have a debate about the enhanced powers in this me with a huge amount of confidence. 119 Terrorism Prevention and 5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Terrorism Prevention and 120 Investigation Measures Bill Investigation Measures Bill [Shabana Mahmood] our country. Many other countries, including the United States, have laws against cruel and unusual punishment. It is clear, and we must recognise, that there is an Relocation has the most significant negative impact on irreducible minimum number of people who pose a the mental health of these individuals. In evidence in serious threat to our country and we have to have an Committee, Dr Korzinski said: adequate and effective way to manage that risk. Relocation “What I am concerned about…is the absence of any sort of is clearly an important part of that package of measures. safeguards with respect to the impact on the mental health of the It is our view that, if the new clause is added to the Bill, individuals who are subjected to these regimes. I can say quite the policing challenge that DAC Osborne and others unequivocally that it has been catastrophic in all the cases that I will face will be reduced and our collective security have worked on.”––[Official Report, Terrorism Prevention and protected. It has always been our concern that if this Investigation Measures Public Bill Committee, 21 June 2011; c. 43, Q121.] Bill closes off the power of relocation to the Home Secretary—if it deprives her of being able to use that That may not be the most popular of reasons to power—that would deprive her of an incredibly important oppose the right hon. Lady’s new clause, but there are tool in her kit bag for dealing with the threat posed by a also many others, such as support for our justice system very small number of people. For those reasons, we will and achieving that balance that she advocates, but support new clause 1 in the Division. which I do not think she spoke to today. I shall support the Government on this new clause.

Richard Fuller: It is a pleasure to be able to make a James Brokenshire: My hon. Friend the Member for brief contribution to this debate. Bedford (Richard Fuller) made some powerful and I listened to the rhetoric of the right hon. Member important points in his succinct contribution. for Salford and Eccles (Hazel Blears) in her opening As I think the right hon. Member for Salford and speech in support of her new clause, and it made me Eccles (Hazel Blears) accepted in her opening comments, even more scared about giving Administrations a fiat we are revisiting a subject that we debated in detail in on the treatment of people in our judicial system, rather the Public Bill Committee, when amendments with the than leaving that with the judges. On many occasions, same effect were tabled by Opposition Members and both in this debate and in Committee, the right hon. the same arguments were made in support of them. As Lady talked about the importance of balance, but I feel was made clear following the carefully considered counter- that, in the sharpness of her rhetoric and the blithe way terrorism review, despite the aspersions that the right challenges were laid down and comments were made hon. Lady seeks to cast, the Government concluded about loosening and potentially putting us at risk, her that it should not routinely be possible under the TPIM speech did not betray any balance whatever. That highlights system to require an individual to relocate, without one of the risks in giving the Executive the power to consent, to another part of the UK. restrain and control people who have not been brought to justice. Both in the specific instance of relocation and The debate in Committee frequently turned to the more generally in the tone of Opposition Members, a question of balance—specifically, the balance between disservice is being done to this Government’s attempts protection of individual liberty and security for the to return us to some semblance of the traditions of wider population. This is an area where there is a very British justice that we achieved before the period of the careful balance to be struck, and where views on where so-called “war on terror”—before 2001—and we should the right balance is may differ. The previous Government remember that control orders were not introduced until took the view that compulsory relocation was necessary 2005, and that therefore they were not in place between as one of a wide range of potential obligations under 2001 and the Iraq war, which some would argue was the the control order provisions. Our conclusion, as we period of greatest risk. made clear in January, is that a more focused use of the restrictions available under the Bill, together with the I wish to make a couple of comments on the specific significantly increased funding we are providing for issue of relocation. I have a lot of respect for the right covert investigation, will allow us to protect the public hon. Lady and I do not mean to pick on her; I am just effectively without the need for this potentially very picking on her point. I challenged her earlier about intrusive power to be routinely available. That is where democratic countries from which she drew inspiration. I our approach departs from the Opposition’s, and why could not think of any either, so I did some research on we are seeking to strike a different balance from that a well-known search engine. I looked up forced relocation marked out by them. of individuals. Kazakhstan featured prominently. There were also a few honourable mentions for Cambodia—not Bob Stewart: The Minister used the word “routinely”. the current Cambodian Government, but I think we Does he mean that this is something that does not can work out which Government—and for Burma. normally happen, but could? Kazakhstan, Cambodia and Burma are not exactly the paragons of virtue in this respect that I would like our James Brokenshire: To be clear, when I say “routinely” Government to follow as they attempt to strike the I am talking about powers routinely available under the difficult balance of maintaining both the security of the TPIM Bill, accepting that there is a draft Bill that we nation and the liberty of the individual. tabled last week, and the exceptional circumstances May I also refer to one not particularly tabloid-friendly when those powers may be available, which we discussed comment on relocation? A number of Members have earlier today. Of course, we will be able to use the robust talked about meeting people who are subject to a control powers in this Bill to disrupt an individual’s involvement order or its equivalents and who have been subject to in terrorism-related activity by, for example, requiring relocation. We must remember that those subject to them to reside and stay overnight at a particular address control orders have not yet gone through full justice in in their locality, so that they can be easily monitored; 121 Terrorism Prevention and 5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Terrorism Prevention and 122 Investigation Measures Bill Investigation Measures Bill requiring them to abide by other restrictions on their The House divided: Ayes 213, Noes 314. movements overnight; banning them from areas or Division No. 332] [9 pm places where they might meet extremist associates or conduct terrorism-related activities; prohibiting their AYES association with individuals of concern and requiring Abbott, Ms Diane Efford, Clive prior notice of association with other individuals; requiring Abrahams, Debbie Elliott, Julie them to report regularly to a police station and to Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob Ellman, Mrs Louise co-operate with electronic tagging; restricting and Alexander, rh Mr Douglas Esterson, Bill monitoring their financial activities; and limiting their Alexander, Heidi Field, rh Mr Frank communications to a small number of approved devices. Ali, Rushanara Flello, Robert That is why I say clearly that the TPIM Bill provides Allen, Mr Graham Flint, rh Caroline robust measures to address the risks posed by such Anderson, Mr David Flynn, Paul individuals, allied to the additional resources being Ashworth, Jonathan Fovargue, Yvonne provided to the police and the Security Service, and that Austin, Ian Francis, Dr Hywel that is the right package of measures to have in place. Bailey, Mr Adrian Gardiner, Barry Bain, Mr William Gilmore, Sheila Indeed, as the House is aware, the director general of Banks, Gordon Glass, Pat the Security Service has told the Home Secretary that Barron, rh Mr Kevin Glindon, Mrs Mary he is content that the TPIM Bill provides an acceptable Bayley, Hugh Goggins, rh Paul balance between the needs of national security and civil Beckett, rh Margaret Goodman, Helen liberties, and that the overall package mitigates risk. Begg, Dame Anne Greatrex, Tom Benn, rh Hilary Green, Kate Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab): As someone Benton, Mr Joe Greenwood, Lilian who had many reservations about the previous regime Berger, Luciana Griffith, Nia and the methods that were used, I, for one, can see very Blackman-Woods, Roberta Gwynne, Andrew little difference between what this Government are doing Blears, rh Hazel Hain, rh Mr Peter and what the previous Government did. At the end of Blenkinsop, Tom Hamilton, Mr David the day, despite all the criticism that was made, particularly Blunkett, rh Mr David Hamilton, Fabian by the Liberal Democrats in the last Parliament, by and Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Hanson, rh Mr David Brennan, Kevin Harris, Mr Tom large, what happened before the election is happening Brown, rh Mr Nicholas Havard, Mr Dai again. Brown, Mr Russell Healey, rh John Bryant, Chris Hendrick, Mark James Brokenshire: I ask the hon. Gentleman with all Buck, Ms Karen Hepburn, Mr Stephen due respect please to read the Bill. He will see that there Burden, Richard Heyes, David are significant and important differences that I cannot Byrne, rh Mr Liam Hillier, Meg address in the two minutes remaining to me. However, Campbell, Mr Alan Hilling, Julie we have always been clear that there may be exceptional Clark, Katy Hodge, rh Margaret circumstances where the measures in the Bill, together Clwyd, rh Ann Hodgson, Mrs Sharon with the additional resources, may not be sufficient to Coaker, Vernon Hood, Mr Jim manage effectively the risk we face. National security is Coffey, Ann Hopkins, Kelvin the primary duty of any Government, and we will not Connarty, Michael Hunt, Tristram put security or the public at risk. That is why we Cooper, Rosie Irranca-Davies, Huw Jamieson, Cathy Cooper, rh Yvette concluded, as announced by the Home Secretary in Johnson, Diana Crausby, Mr David January, that there may be exceptional circumstances Jones, Helen Creagh, Mary where it would be necessary to seek parliamentary Jones, Mr Kevan Creasy, Stella approval for additional, more restrictive measures. The Jones, Susan Elan review included a commitment that emergency legislation Cruddas, Jon Jowell, rh Tessa would be drafted, and that is what we tabled last week. Cryer, John Joyce, Eric Cunningham, Alex In a free society, we must challenge ourselves to fight Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald Cunningham, Mr Jim Keeley, Barbara terrorism using a targeted set of powers, safeguarding Cunningham, Tony our hard-won civil liberties and prosecuting terrorists Kendall, Liz Curran, Margaret Khan, rh Sadiq wherever possible. However, we must also ensure that Dakin, Nic Lammy, rh Mr David those powers are sufficiently robust to meet the threats Danczuk, Simon Lavery, Ian we face and sufficiently flexible to protect the public in David, Mr Wayne Lazarowicz, Mark changing circumstances, including in exceptional Davies, Geraint Leslie, Chris circumstances. I believe that the Government’s approach De Piero, Gloria Lewis, Mr Ivan to this difficult issue is the right one and—I come back Dobbin, Jim Lloyd, Tony to balance being the essence—does strike the proper Dobson, rh Frank Love, Mr Andrew balance in giving us that right mix of disruption and Docherty, Thomas Lucas, Ian ensuring protection for civil liberties. I am sorry that the Dodds, rh Mr Nigel MacShane, rh Mr Denis Opposition do not appear— Donohoe, Mr Brian H. Mactaggart, Fiona Doran, Mr Frank Mahmood, Shabana 9pm Dowd, Jim Mann, John Doyle, Gemma Marsden, Mr Gordon Debate interrupted (Programme Order, 7 June). Dromey, Jack McCabe, Steve The Deputy Speaker put forthwith the Question already Dugher, Michael McCann, Mr Michael proposed from the Chair (Standing Order No. 83E), Eagle, Ms Angela McCarthy, Kerry That the clause be read a Second time. Eagle, Maria McClymont, Gregg 123 Terrorism Prevention and 5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Terrorism Prevention and 124 Investigation Measures Bill Investigation Measures Bill McCrea, Dr William Ruane, Chris Clappison, Mr James Hart, Simon McDonagh, Siobhain Ruddock, rh Joan Clark, rh Greg Harvey, Nick McFadden, rh Mr Pat Sarwar, Anas Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey Haselhurst, rh Sir Alan McGovern, Alison Seabeck, Alison Coffey, Dr Thérèse Hayes, Mr John McGovern, Jim Sheerman, Mr Barry Collins, Damian Heath, Mr David McGuire, rh Mrs Anne Shuker, Gavin Colvile, Oliver Heaton-Harris, Chris McKechin, Ann Simpson, David Corbyn, Jeremy Hemming, John McKenzie, Mr Iain Slaughter, Mr Andy Cox, Mr Geoffrey Herbert, rh Nick Hinds, Damian Meacher, rh Mr Michael Smith, Angela Crabb, Stephen Meale, Sir Alan Hoban, Mr Mark Smith, Nick Crockart, Mike Mearns, Ian Hollingbery, George Smith, Owen Davies, David T. C. Michael, rh Alun Hollobone, Mr Philip Spellar, rh Mr John (Monmouth) Miliband, rh David Hopkins, Kris Straw, rh Mr Jack Davies, Glyn Miller, Andrew Horwood, Martin Stringer, Graham Davies, Philip Moon, Mrs Madeleine Stuart, Ms Gisela Howarth, Mr Gerald Davis, rh Mr David Huhne, rh Chris Morrice, Graeme (Livingston) Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry Morris, Grahame M. de Bois, Nick Hunt, rh Mr Jeremy Tami, Mark (Easington) Dinenage, Caroline Huppert, Dr Julian Thomas, Mr Gareth Munn, Meg Djanogly, Mr Jonathan James, Margot Timms, rh Stephen Murphy, rh Paul Dorrell, rh Mr Stephen Javid, Sajid Trickett, Jon Murray, Ian Doyle-Price, Jackie Jenkin, Mr Bernard Nandy, Lisa Twigg, Derek Drax, Richard Johnson, Gareth Nash, Pamela Twigg, Stephen Duddridge, James Johnson, Joseph O’Donnell, Fiona Umunna, Mr Chuka Duncan, rh Mr Alan Jones, Andrew Onwurah, Chi Vaz, rh Keith Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain Jones, Mr David Osborne, Sandra Vaz, Valerie Durkan, Mark Kawczynski, Daniel Owen, Albert Walley, Joan Edwards, Jonathan Kelly, Chris Pearce, Teresa Watson, Mr Tom Ellis, Michael Kennedy, rh Mr Charles Perkins, Toby Watts, Mr Dave Ellison, Jane Kirby, Simon Phillipson, Bridget Whitehead, Dr Alan Ellwood, Mr Tobias Knight, rh Mr Greg Kwarteng, Kwasi Pound, Stephen Wicks, rh Malcolm Elphicke, Charlie Qureshi, Yasmin Laing, Mrs Eleanor Williamson, Chris Eustice, George Raynsford, rh Mr Nick Lamb, Norman Wilson, Phil Evans, Jonathan Reed, Mr Jamie Lancaster, Mark Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Evennett, Mr David Reeves, Rachel Lansley, rh Mr Andrew Wood, Mike Fabricant, Michael Reynolds, Emma Woodcock, John Latham, Pauline Farron, Tim Leadsom, Andrea Reynolds, Jonathan Woodward, rh Mr Shaun Riordan, Mrs Linda Field, Mr Mark Lee, Jessica Wright, David Robertson, John Foster, rh Mr Don Lee, Dr Phillip Wright, Mr Iain Robinson, Mr Geoffrey Fox,rhDrLiam Lefroy, Jeremy Rotheram, Steve Tellers for the Ayes: Francois, rh Mr Mark Leslie, Charlotte Roy, Mr Frank Graham Jones and Freeman, George Letwin, rh Mr Oliver Roy, Lindsay Lyn Brown Freer, Mike Lewis, Brandon Fullbrook, Lorraine Lewis, Dr Julian NOES Fuller, Richard Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian Gale, Mr Roger Lidington, rh Mr David Adams, Nigel Boles, Nick Garnier, Mark Lilley, rh Mr Peter Bone, Mr Peter Afriyie, Adam Gauke, Mr David Lloyd, Stephen Bottomley, Sir Peter Aldous, Peter George, Andrew Llwyd, rh Mr Elfyn Bradley, Karen Amess, Mr David Gibb, Mr Nick Long, Naomi Brady, Mr Graham Andrew, Stuart Gilbert, Stephen Lopresti, Jack Brake, rh Tom Lord, Jonathan Bacon, Mr Richard Gillan, rh Mrs Cheryl Bray, Angie Loughton, Tim Baker, Norman Glen, John Brazier, Mr Julian Lucas, Caroline Baldry, Tony Goodwill, Mr Robert Bridgen, Andrew Luff, Peter Baldwin, Harriett Grant, Mrs Helen Brine, Mr Steve Lumley, Karen Barclay, Stephen Brokenshire, James Grayling, rh Chris Macleod, Mary Baron, Mr John Brooke, Annette Green, Damian MacNeil, Mr Angus Brendan Barwell, Gavin Bruce, Fiona Greening, Justine Main, Mrs Anne Bebb, Guto Buckland, Mr Robert Grieve, rh Mr Dominic May, rh Mrs Theresa Beith, rh Sir Alan Burley, Mr Aidan Gummer, Ben Maynard, Paul Gyimah, Mr Sam Bellingham, Mr Henry Burns, Conor McCartney, Jason Hague, rh Mr William Benyon, Richard Burrowes, Mr David McCartney, Karl Halfon, Robert Beresford, Sir Paul Burstow, Paul McDonnell, John Burt, Lorely Hames, Duncan McIntosh, Miss Anne Berry, Jake Byles, Dan Hammond, rh Mr Philip McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick Bingham, Andrew Cairns, Alun Hammond, Stephen McPartland, Stephen Binley, Mr Brian Campbell, rh Sir Menzies Hancock, Mr Mike McVey, Esther Birtwistle, Gordon Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair Hands, Greg Mensch, Louise Blackman, Bob Carmichael, Neil Harper, Mr Mark Menzies, Mark Blackwood, Nicola Carswell, Mr Douglas Harrington, Richard Mercer, Patrick Blunt, Mr Crispin Chishti, Rehman Harris, Rebecca Metcalfe, Stephen 125 Terrorism Prevention and 5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Terrorism Prevention and 126 Investigation Measures Bill Investigation Measures Bill Miller, Maria Smith, Miss Chloe Clause 12 Mills, Nigel Smith, Henry Milton, Anne Smith, Julian VARIATION OF MEASURES Moore, rh Michael Soames, rh Nicholas Mordaunt, Penny Soubry, Anna Amendment made: 9, page 7, line 16, at end insert— Morgan, Nicky Spelman, rh Mrs Caroline ‘(3A) An application under subsection (2) must be made in Morris, Anne Marie Spencer, Mr Mark writing. Morris, David Stanley, rh Sir John (3B) The Secretary of State may by notice request the Morris, James Stephenson, Andrew provision, within such period of time as the notice may specify, Mosley, Stephen Stevenson, John of further information from the individual in connection with an Mowat, David Stewart, Bob application under subsection (2). Mulholland, Greg Stewart, Iain (3C) The Secretary of State is not required to consider an Mundell, rh David Stewart, Rory application further unless any information requested under Munt, Tessa Streeter, Mr Gary subsection (3B) is provided in accordance with the notice Murray, Sheryll Stride, Mel mentioned in that subsection.’.—(James Brokenshire.) Murrison, Dr Andrew Stuart, Mr Graham Neill, Robert Stunell, Andrew Newmark, Mr Brooks Sturdy, Julian Clause 13 Newton, Sarah Swales, Ian Nokes, Caroline Swayne, rh Mr Desmond REVOCATION AND REVIVAL OF TPIM NOTICES Norman, Jesse Syms, Mr Robert Nuttall, Mr David Teather, Sarah Amendment made: 10, page 8, line 3, after ‘notice”)’ O’Brien, Mr Stephen Thurso, John insert ‘at any time’.—(James Brokenshire.) Offord, Mr Matthew Timpson, Mr Edward Ollerenshaw, Eric Tomlinson, Justin Opperman, Guy Tredinnick, David Clause 19 Ottaway, Richard Truss, Elizabeth Paice, rh Mr James Turner, Mr Andrew REPORTS ON EXERCISE OF POWERS UNDER ACT Parish, Neil Tyrie, Mr Andrew Amendment made: 11, page 11, line 41, at end insert— Patel, Priti Uppal, Paul Paterson, rh Mr Owen Vaizey, Mr Edward ‘(4) Subject to subsection (5), this section does not require a Penning, Mike Vara, Mr Shailesh report to be made in relation to any time which falls after the Penrose, John Vickers, Martin Secretary of State’s TPIM powers have expired or been repealed Percy, Andrew Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa under section (Expiry and repeal of TPIM powers), except for the period of 28 days referred to in section (Expiry and repeal of Phillips, Stephen Walker, Mr Charles TPIM powers: supplementary provision)(2). Pickles, rh Mr Eric Walker, Mr Robin Pincher, Christopher Walter, Mr Robert (5) If the Secretary of State’s TPIM powers are revived under Poulter, Dr Daniel Ward, Mr David section (Expiry and repeal of TPIM powers)— Prisk, Mr Mark Watkinson, Angela (a) the reference in subsection (1)(a) above to the month in Pugh, John Weatherley, Mike which this Act is passed is to be read as a reference to Randall, rh Mr John Weir, Mr Mike the month in which the revival takes effect; and Reckless, Mark Wharton, James (b) this section applies accordingly.’.—(James Brokenshire.) Redwood, rh Mr John Wheeler, Heather Rees-Mogg, Jacob White, Chris Reid, Mr Alan Whiteford, Dr Eilidh Clause 20 Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm Whittaker, Craig Robathan, rh Mr Andrew Whittingdale, Mr John REVIEWS OF OPERATION OF ACT Robertson, Hugh Wiggin, Bill Robertson, Mr Laurence Willetts, rh Mr David Amendments made: 12, page 12, line 12, leave out Rogerson, Dan Williams, Hywel from beginning to ‘before’ in line 13 and insert Rosindell, Andrew Williams, Mr Mark ‘On receiving a report under subsection (4), the Secretary of Rudd, Amber Williams, Roger State must lay a copy of it’. Russell, Bob Williams, Stephen Amendment 13, page 12, line 17, at end insert— Rutley, David Williamson, Gavin ‘(7) Subject to subsection (8), this section does not require a Sanders, Mr Adrian Wilson, Mr Rob Sandys, Laura review to be carried out in relation to any time which falls after Wishart, Pete the Secretary of State’s TPIM powers have expired or been Selous, Andrew Wollaston, Dr Sarah repealed under section (Expiry and repeal of TPIM powers), Shapps, rh Grant Wright, Jeremy except for the period of 28 days referred to in section (Expiry and Sharma, Alok Wright, Simon repeal of TPIM powers: supplementary provision)(2). Shelbrooke, Alec Young, rh Sir George Shepherd, Mr Richard (8) If the Secretary of State’s TPIM powers are revived under Simmonds, Mark Tellers for the Noes: section (Expiry and repeal of TPIM powers), the independent Simpson, Mr Keith Mark Hunter and reviewer must carry out a review of the operation of this Act in respect of— Skidmore, Chris Mr Philip Dunne (a) the period which— (i) begins when the revival takes effect, and Question accordingly negatived. (ii) ends with the end of the calendar year in which the The Deputy Speaker then put forthwith the Questions revival takes effect; and necessary for the disposal of the business to be concluded (b) each subsequent calendar year. at that time (Standing Order No. 83E). (9) In such a case, this section and the other provisions of this Act apply as if references to a review under subsection (2) were references to a review under subsection (8).’.—(James Brokenshire.) 127 Terrorism Prevention and 5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Terrorism Prevention and 128 Investigation Measures Bill Investigation Measures Bill Clause 21 Cunningham, Mr Jim Leslie, Chris Cunningham, Tony Lewis, Mr Ivan OFFENCE Curran, Margaret Lloyd, Tony Dakin, Nic Love, Mr Andrew Amendments made: 14, page 12, line 31, after ‘conviction’ Danczuk, Simon Lucas, Ian insert David, Mr Wayne MacShane, rh Mr Denis ‘in England and Wales or Northern Ireland’. Davies, Geraint Mactaggart, Fiona Amendment 15, page 12, line 32, at end insert— De Piero, Gloria Mahmood, Shabana Dobbin, Jim Mann, John ‘(c) on summary conviction in Scotland, to imprisonment Dobson, rh Frank Marsden, Mr Gordon for a term not exceeding 12 months or to a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum, or to both.’.— Docherty, Thomas McCabe, Steve Donohoe, Mr Brian H. McCann, Mr Michael (James Brokenshire.) Doran, Mr Frank McCarthy, Kerry Dowd, Jim McClymont, Gregg Clause 27 Doyle, Gemma McDonagh, Siobhain Dromey, Jack McFadden, rh Mr Pat Dugher, Michael McGovern, Alison SHORT TITLE, COMMENCEMENT AND EXTENT Eagle, Ms Angela McGovern, Jim Amendment proposed: 20, page 15, line 41, leave out Eagle, Maria McGuire, rh Mrs Anne from ‘Act’ to end of line and insert Efford, Clive McKechin, Ann ‘will come into force the day after the Home Secretary reports to Elliott, Julie McKenzie, Mr Iain Parliament to confirm that paragraphs (a), (b) and (c) below have Ellman, Mrs Louise Meacher, rh Mr Michael been complied with— Esterson, Bill Meale, Sir Alan (a) no later than one month after the day on which this Field, rh Mr Frank Mearns, Ian Act is passed, the Senior National Co-ordinator for Flello, Robert Michael, rh Alun Counter-terrorism will produce a report to the Home Flint, rh Caroline Miliband, rh David Secretary detailing the additional required resources Flynn, Paul Miller, Andrew (“required resources”) that will be needed to manage Fovargue, Yvonne Moon, Mrs Madeleine the increased risks arising from the repeal of the Francis, Dr Hywel Morrice, Graeme (Livingston) Prevention of Terrorism Act 2005 and the passing of Gardiner, Barry Morris, Grahame M. this Act; Gilmore, Sheila (Easington) (b) no later than two months after the day on which this Glass, Pat Munn, Meg Act is passed the Home Secretary will agree with the Glindon, Mrs Mary Murphy, rh Paul Senior National Co-ordinator for Counter-terrorism Goggins, rh Paul Murray, Ian the required resources under paragraph (a) and the Goodman, Helen Nandy, Lisa timetable for such required resources becoming Greatrex, Tom Nash, Pamela deployable for use in implementing and managing Green, Kate O’Donnell, Fiona measures relating to TPIM notices; Greenwood, Lilian Onwurah, Chi (c) this Act cannot come into force until the required Griffith, Nia Osborne, Sandra resources as agreed under paragraph (b) above are Gwynne, Andrew Owen, Albert made available and ready for deployment.’.— Hain, rh Mr Peter Pearce, Teresa (Shabana Mahmood.) Hamilton, Mr David Perkins, Toby Question put, That the amendment be made. Hamilton, Fabian Phillipson, Bridget The House divided: Ayes 210, Noes 311. Hanson, rh Mr David Pound, Stephen Harris, Mr Tom Qureshi, Yasmin Division No. 333] [9.15 pm Havard, Mr Dai Raynsford, rh Mr Nick Healey, rh John Reed, Mr Jamie AYES Hendrick, Mark Reeves, Rachel Abbott, Ms Diane Blunkett, rh Mr David Hepburn, Mr Stephen Reynolds, Emma Abrahams, Debbie Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Heyes, David Reynolds, Jonathan Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob Brennan, Kevin Hillier, Meg Riordan, Mrs Linda Alexander, rh Mr Douglas Brown, rh Mr Nicholas Hilling, Julie Robertson, John Alexander, Heidi Brown, Mr Russell Hodge, rh Margaret Robinson, Mr Geoffrey Ali, Rushanara Bryant, Chris Hodgson, Mrs Sharon Rotheram, Steve Allen, Mr Graham Buck, Ms Karen Hood, Mr Jim Roy, Mr Frank Anderson, Mr David Burden, Richard Hopkins, Kelvin Roy, Lindsay Ashworth, Jonathan Byrne, rh Mr Liam Hunt, Tristram Ruane, Chris Austin, Ian Campbell, Mr Alan Irranca-Davies, Huw Ruddock, rh Joan Bailey, Mr Adrian Campbell, rh Sir Menzies Jamieson, Cathy Sarwar, Anas Bain, Mr William Clark, Katy Johnson, Diana Seabeck, Alison Banks, Gordon Clwyd, rh Ann Jones, Helen Sheerman, Mr Barry Barron, rh Mr Kevin Coaker, Vernon Jones, Mr Kevan Shuker, Gavin Bayley, Hugh Coffey, Ann Jones, Susan Elan Slaughter, Mr Andy Beckett, rh Margaret Connarty, Michael Jowell, rh Tessa Smith, Angela Begg, Dame Anne Cooper, Rosie Joyce, Eric Smith, Nick Beith, rh Sir Alan Cooper, rh Yvette Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald Smith, Owen Benn, rh Hilary Crausby, Mr David Keeley, Barbara Spellar, rh Mr John Benton, Mr Joe Creagh, Mary Kendall, Liz Straw, rh Mr Jack Berger, Luciana Creasy, Stella Khan, rh Sadiq Stringer, Graham Blackman-Woods, Roberta Cruddas, Jon Lammy, rh Mr David Stuart, Ms Gisela Blears, rh Hazel Cryer, John Lavery, Ian Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry Blenkinsop, Tom Cunningham, Alex Lazarowicz, Mark Tami, Mark 129 Terrorism Prevention and 5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Terrorism Prevention and 130 Investigation Measures Bill Investigation Measures Bill Thomas, Mr Gareth Wicks, rh Malcolm Harris, Rebecca Miller, Maria Timms, rh Stephen Williamson, Chris Hart, Simon Mills, Nigel Trickett, Jon Wilson, Phil Harvey, Nick Milton, Anne Twigg, Derek Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Haselhurst, rh Sir Alan Moore, rh Michael Twigg, Stephen Woodcock, John Hayes, Mr John Mordaunt, Penny Umunna, Mr Chuka Woodward, rh Mr Shaun Heath, Mr David Morgan, Nicky Vaz, Valerie Wright, David Heaton-Harris, Chris Morris, Anne Marie Walley, Joan Wright, Mr Iain Hemming, John Morris, David Watson, Mr Tom Tellers for the Ayes: Herbert, rh Nick Morris, James Watts, Mr Dave Graham Jones and Hinds, Damian Mosley, Stephen Whitehead, Dr Alan Lyn Brown Hoban, Mr Mark Mowat, David Hollingbery, George Mulholland, Greg Hollobone, Mr Philip Mundell, rh David NOES Hopkins, Kris Munt, Tessa Adams, Nigel Davies, Glyn Horwood, Martin Murray, Sheryll Afriyie, Adam Davies, Philip Howarth, Mr Gerald Murrison, Dr Andrew Aldous, Peter Davis, rh Mr David Huhne, rh Chris Neill, Robert Amess, Mr David de Bois, Nick Hunt, rh Mr Jeremy Newmark, Mr Brooks Andrew, Stuart Dinenage, Caroline Huppert, Dr Julian Newton, Sarah Bacon, Mr Richard Djanogly, Mr Jonathan James, Margot Nokes, Caroline Baker, Norman Dodds, rh Mr Nigel Javid, Sajid Norman, Jesse Baldwin, Harriett Dorrell, rh Mr Stephen Jenkin, Mr Bernard Nuttall, Mr David Barclay, Stephen Doyle-Price, Jackie Johnson, Gareth O’Brien, Mr Stephen Baron, Mr John Drax, Richard Johnson, Joseph Offord, Mr Matthew Barwell, Gavin Duddridge, James Jones, Andrew Ollerenshaw, Eric Bebb, Guto Duncan, rh Mr Alan Jones, Mr David Opperman, Guy Bellingham, Mr Henry Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain Kawczynski, Daniel Ottaway, Richard Benyon, Richard Dunne, Mr Philip Kelly, Chris Paice, rh Mr James Beresford, Sir Paul Durkan, Mark Kennedy, rh Mr Charles Parish, Neil Berry, Jake Edwards, Jonathan Kirby, Simon Patel, Priti Bingham, Andrew Ellis, Michael Knight, rh Mr Greg Paterson, rh Mr Owen Binley, Mr Brian Ellison, Jane Kwarteng, Kwasi Penning, Mike Birtwistle, Gordon Ellwood, Mr Tobias Laing, Mrs Eleanor Penrose, John Blackman, Bob Elphicke, Charlie Lamb, Norman Percy, Andrew Blackwood, Nicola Eustice, George Lancaster, Mark Phillips, Stephen Blunt, Mr Crispin Evans, Jonathan Lansley, rh Mr Andrew Pickles, rh Mr Eric Boles, Nick Evennett, Mr David Latham, Pauline Pincher, Christopher Bone, Mr Peter Fabricant, Michael Leadsom, Andrea Poulter, Dr Daniel Bottomley, Sir Peter Farron, Tim Lee, Jessica Prisk, Mr Mark Bradley, Karen Field, Mr Mark Lee, Dr Phillip Pugh, John Brady, Mr Graham Foster, rh Mr Don Lefroy, Jeremy Randall, rh Mr John Brake, rh Tom Fox,rhDrLiam Leslie, Charlotte Reckless, Mark Bray, Angie Francois, rh Mr Mark Lewis, Brandon Redwood, rh Mr John Brazier, Mr Julian Freeman, George Lewis, Dr Julian Rees-Mogg, Jacob Bridgen, Andrew Freer, Mike Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian Reid, Mr Alan Brine, Mr Steve Fullbrook, Lorraine Lidington, rh Mr David Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm Brokenshire, James Fuller, Richard Lilley, rh Mr Peter Robathan, rh Mr Andrew Brooke, Annette Gale, Mr Roger Lloyd, Stephen Robertson, Hugh Bruce, Fiona Garnier, Mark Llwyd, rh Mr Elfyn Robertson, Mr Laurence Buckland, Mr Robert Gauke, Mr David Long, Naomi Rogerson, Dan Burley, Mr Aidan George, Andrew Lopresti, Jack Rosindell, Andrew Burns, Conor Gibb, Mr Nick Lord, Jonathan Rudd, Amber Burrowes, Mr David Gilbert, Stephen Loughton, Tim Russell, Bob Burstow, Paul Gillan, rh Mrs Cheryl Lucas, Caroline Rutley, David Burt, Lorely Glen, John Luff, Peter Sanders, Mr Adrian Byles, Dan Goodwill, Mr Robert Lumley, Karen Sandys, Laura Cairns, Alun Grant, Mrs Helen Macleod, Mary Selous, Andrew Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair Grayling, rh Chris MacNeil, Mr Angus Brendan Shapps, rh Grant Carmichael, Neil Green, Damian May, rh Mrs Theresa Sharma, Alok Chishti, Rehman Greening, Justine Maynard, Paul Shelbrooke, Alec Clappison, Mr James Grieve, rh Mr Dominic McCartney, Jason Shepherd, Mr Richard Clark, rh Greg Gummer, Ben McCartney, Karl Simmonds, Mark Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey Gyimah, Mr Sam McCrea, Dr William Simpson, David Coffey, Dr Thérèse Hague, rh Mr William McDonnell, John Simpson, Mr Keith Collins, Damian Halfon, Robert McIntosh, Miss Anne Skidmore, Chris Colvile, Oliver Hames, Duncan McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick Smith, Miss Chloe Corbyn, Jeremy Hammond, rh Mr Philip McPartland, Stephen Smith, Henry Cox, Mr Geoffrey Hammond, Stephen McVey, Esther Smith, Julian Crabb, Stephen Hancock, Mr Mike Mensch, Louise Soames, rh Nicholas Crockart, Mike Hands, Greg Menzies, Mark Soubry, Anna Davies, David T. C. Harper, Mr Mark Mercer, Patrick Spelman, rh Mrs Caroline (Monmouth) Harrington, Richard Metcalfe, Stephen Spencer, Mr Mark 131 Terrorism Prevention and 5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Terrorism Prevention and 132 Investigation Measures Bill Investigation Measures Bill Stanley, rh Sir John Walker, Mr Robin (a) the generality of sub-paragraph (7) of paragraph 13 Stephenson, Andrew Walter, Mr Robert (power to impose conditions when granting Stevenson, John Ward, Mr David permission), or Stewart, Bob Watkinson, Angela (b) the power to impose further conditions under that Stewart, Iain Weatherley, Mike sub-paragraph in connection with permission granted Stewart, Rory Weir, Mr Mike by virtue of sub-paragraph (7) of this paragraph. Streeter, Mr Gary Wharton, James Stride, Mel Wheeler, Heather (11) In sub-paragraph (7) “applicable period” means a period for which the individual is required to remain at the specified Stuart, Mr Graham White, Chris residence by virtue of a requirement of the kind mentioned in Stunell, Andrew Whiteford, Dr Eilidh sub-paragraph (2)(c).’.—(James Brokenshire.) Sturdy, Julian Whittaker, Craig Swales, Ian Whittingdale, Mr John Swayne, rh Mr Desmond Willetts, rh Mr David Syms, Mr Robert Williams, Hywel Schedule 4 Teather, Sarah Williams, Mr Mark Thurso, John Williams, Roger PROCEEDINGS RELATING TO TERRORISM PREVENTION Timpson, Mr Edward Williams, Stephen AND INVESTIGATION MEASURES Tomlinson, Justin Williamson, Gavin Amendment made: 19, page 30, line 19, leave out ‘56’ Tredinnick, David Wilson, Mr Rob and insert ‘56(1), (2) and (4)’.—(James Brokenshire.) Truss, Elizabeth Wishart, Pete Third Reading Turner, Mr Andrew Wollaston, Dr Sarah Tyrie, Mr Andrew Wright, Jeremy Uppal, Paul Wright, Simon 9.28 pm Vaizey, Mr Edward Young, rh Sir George James Brokenshire: I beg to move, That the Bill be Vara, Mr Shailesh now read the Third time. Vickers, Martin Tellers for the Noes: Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa Mark Hunter and I would like to begin by thanking the right hon. and Walker, Mr Charles Bill Wiggin hon. Members who sat on the Public Bill Committee. I can genuinely say that it was one of the best Public Bill Question accordingly negatived. Committees that I have been involved in. The Bill underwent tough and detailed scrutiny. There was active participation and there were excellent contributions Schedule 1 from both sides. I am sure Members who sat on the Committee will agree that it was lively and robust, but TERRORISM PREVENTION AND INVESTIGATION MEASURES good natured. That is when Parliament excels and does Amendments made: 16, page 16, line 7, leave out its job properly. The Public Bill Committee certainly did sub-paragraphs (1) and (2) and insert— that. ‘(1) The Secretary of State may impose restrictions on the The Committee benefited from the considerable individual in relation to the residence in which the individual resides. knowledge and expertise of several Members including my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Sleaford (2) The Secretary of State may, in particular, impose any of the following— and North Hykeham (Stephen Phillips) and the right hon. Members for Wythenshawe and Sale East (Paul (a) a requirement to reside at a specified residence; Goggins) and for Salford and Eccles (Hazel Blears). I (b) a requirement to give notice to the Secretary of State am grateful for the contributions of those Members of the identity of any other individuals who reside (or will reside) at the specified residence; and other Members of the Committee to this debate. I also thank the Chairmen of the Committee and the (c) a requirement, applicable overnight between such hours as are specified, to remain at the specified officials, Officers and staff of the House who enabled residence.’. the Committee’s work to take place. We have had a full Amendment 17, page 16, line 30, after ‘locality’ insert and detailed discussion of this important piece of legislation ‘in the United Kingdom’. on Report, with many excellent contributions from all parts of the House. Amendment 18, page 17, line 3, leave out sub- paragraphs (7) to (9) and insert— We have made it clear from the outset that we are committed to prosecuting and deporting terrorists wherever ‘(7) A requirement of the kind mentioned in sub-paragraph possible and that our starting point will always be that (2)(c) must include provision to enable the individual to apply for the permission of the Secretary of State to be away from the terrorists should be behind bars. I know that that is the specified residence, for the whole or part of any applicable position of everyone in the House. We recognise, however, period, on one or more occasions. that there are likely, for the foreseeable future, to be a (8) The Secretary of State may grant such permission subject small number of individuals who we believe are involved to either or both of the following conditions— in terrorism but whom we cannot successfully prosecute (a) the condition that the individual remains overnight at or deport. The purpose of the Bill is to put in place the other agreed premises between such hours as the measures needed to deal with them. Secretary of State may require; The Government have thought long and hard about (b) the condition that the individual complies with such what legislation is needed. We conducted a comprehensive other restrictions in relation to the individual’s and detailed review of all the key counter-terrorism movements whist away from the specified residence powers, including control orders. As a result of that as are so required. review, we concluded that control orders were not properly (9) “Agreed premises” are premises in the United Kingdom targeted and not entirely effective, and that they should which are agreed by the Secretary of State and the individual. be replaced with the system of prevention and investigation (10) Sub-paragraph (8) is not to be read as limiting— measures that is set out in the Bill. 133 Terrorism Prevention and 5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Terrorism Prevention and 134 Investigation Measures Bill Investigation Measures Bill The Bill includes all the measures that we believe are Counter-terror policies are extremely important. They necessary to deal with those we cannot prosecute or are vital to public safety, so our approach is, wherever deport, including an overnight residence requirement; a possible, to seek to support the Government in their travel measure allowing the banning of overseas travel counter-terror policy. However, tonight we cannot. We without permission; measures restricting individuals cannot vote for the Bill because we do not believe it is from entering particular areas or places; an electronic the right thing to do for our national security. We do communications device measure that will restrict the not take that decision lightly, but we are afraid that the individual’s ability to use communications devices; and Government are taking unnecessary risks with national a financial services measure that will allow individuals security and public safety by introducing the Bill, and to be limited to only one bank account, for which they we do not believe that Parliament should support that will have to provide statements. The transfer of money approach tonight. and goods overseas without prior permission could also Control orders are not desirable but, sadly, they are be prohibited. needed. That is why they were introduced. However, the The Bill also includes an association measure, under Bill, in its response to control orders, raises some serious which a list of prohibited associates would be provided problems: it weakens counter-terror protection in important to the individual in advance, with the possibility that ways; it weakens the safeguards—the checks and advance notice might be required for meeting other balances—that are needed to prevent abuse; it does not individuals; a reporting measure that would require the live up to the promises that were made about it; and it individual to report to a particular police station at a creates a shambolic legislative process and legal framework particular time; and a monitoring measure that would that will make it harder, not easier, for the police and require the individual to co-operate with arrangements, the security services to do their job and keep us safe. including electronic tagging, to monitor their movements, communications, and other activities. From the start, concerns were raised that the Bill was The Bill includes additional safeguards, including an simply a fudge. Control orders are being replaced with increase in the threshold for the imposition of a TPIM something very similar. Curfews are being replaced notice from reasonable suspicion of involvement in with overnight residence requirements, and restrictions terrorism-related activity to reasonable belief, and a on movement and communications are being replaced two-year overall time limit for a TPIM notice. We with prescriptions on movement and communications. believe that TPIMs, together with the significant extra However, in key areas, the Bill weakens the powers of resources that are being given to the police and Security the Home Secretary to deal with very difficult cases. Service for covert investigation, strike the right balance My hon. Friends the Members for Birmingham, between robust measures to protect the public and the Ladywood (Shabana Mahmood) and for Bradford South protection of civil liberties. (Mr Sutcliffe) set out in Committee a series of our I do not intend to go over the issues that we discussed concerns and tabled amendments. Today we heard my in detail on Report, but I wish to say something about right hon. Friend the Member for Wythenshawe and the draft Enhanced Terrorism Prevention and Investigation Sale East (Paul Goggins) set out his concerns and very Measures Bill, which we published for pre-legislative powerfully speak to amendments on additional measures. scrutiny on 1 September. Some have claimed that publishing My right hon. Friend the Member for Salford and it means that the Government have made some sort of Eccles (Hazel Blears) spoke to amendments on relocation, U-turn, and that we are trying to reintroduce more and my right hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton stringent powers through the back door. That is absolutely South East (Mr McFadden) spoke of specific Opposition not the case. security concerns. That is particularly important in The review of counter-terrorism and security powers Olympic year. that was announced on 26 January made it clear that I shall focus particularly on our concerns about additional restrictive measures may be required in relocation—they were discussed on Report, but they are exceptional circumstances, and that we would produce fundamental on Third Reading. In some cases, the draft legislation to cover such a situation. That is exactly courts, the security services and this Home Secretary what we have done. We do not believe it is necessary to have agreed that the power to relocate someone to have those additional measures in the current Bill, and prevent terrorist activity is needed and justified. In May we sincerely hope that they will never be required, but this year, just four months ago, the Home Secretary we think it is right to have the draft legislation available argued in the case of CD that he needed to be removed should there be exceptional circumstances that require from Greater London to protect the public from a it, and that Parliament should have the chance to consider terrorist attack. The judge said: it in detail now. “I have concluded that the relocation obligation is a necessary The Government believe that the approach that the and proportionate measure to protect the public from the risk of Bill sets out is the right one. It protects the public and what is an immediate and real risk of a terrorist attack.” civil liberties, it is both robust and fair and I commend That was just four months ago, but now the Home it to the House. Secretary believes that those powers are not needed. 9.33 pm What has really changed since May? Yvette Cooper (Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford) In July of this year, just two months ago, the Home (Lab): I join the Minister in commending those who Secretary said in the case of BM that relocation outside have participated in the debates both in Committee and London was “fundamental”to preventing terrorist activity. in the House today. This debate has been serious and In that case, BM admitted that he was committed to important, and we have heard considerable expertise terrorism. The Home Secretary now believes that those from all parts of the House in the discussions that have powers are not needed. Again, what has really changed taken place. since July? 135 Terrorism Prevention and 5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Terrorism Prevention and 136 Investigation Measures Bill Investigation Measures Bill [Yvette Cooper] do not prove dangerous, but on the basis of the evidence and expert advice that we have, the Opposition do not Ministers claim that they will put more surveillance believe that it is right to take the risk. We will not be in place, but the Met expert on this, when giving evidence supporting the Bill on Third Reading tonight. to the Public Bill Committee, said: “To get the resources that we anticipate we need will take more Several hon. Members rose— than a year, in terms of being able to get people trained and to get the right equipment.”––[ Official Report, Terrorism Prevention Mr Speaker: Order. There are five Members seeking and Investigation Measures Public Bill Committee, 21 June 2011; to catch my eye. I know that they are perfectly capable c. 9, Q27.] of doing the arithmetic for themselves. It is simply not credible that the security environment has changed so substantially in the past two or four Richard Fuller: Unlike the shadow Home Secretary, months that the powers were needed then but are not many of us regard this as a lost opportunity to put needed now. Are the Government really telling us—in behind us legislation that is a scar on our constitutional Olympic year, of all years—that the powers are less and judicial structures. References have been made to needed in the coming year than they were last year, 9/11, which we will be remembering this Sunday. I was when this Home Secretary has felt that she needed to in New York on that day, and the memory is still use them five times? visceral. The event has unleashed a decade of sometimes Ministers have conceded that the powers could be good, sometimes poorly thought through legislative needed, but they are promising only emergency legislation responses to real and apparent and sometimes not-so-real to solve the problem. However, that is a deeply disorderly threats. Over the years, there has been growing opposition and shambolic response. It is not fair on the police or to some of those more extreme measures—the push for security services—or, ultimately, on the public—to say, 90 days’ detention without trial, the preamble to the as the Minister has today, that the Government cannot Iraq war, with the promotion of non-plots, such as the tell us in what circumstances the emergency legislation ricin plot, and the sexing up of dossiers as a basis for will be passed. When pressed, he suggested that it might our going to war, and of course the control orders. be passed in the case of multiple threats or in the wake These are all part of an approach to the control of of a terrorist attack, but neither circumstance applied terror that says there is never enough doubt. in the cases of CD or BM, when the Home Secretary This is not a point of balance. We need to have a decided that the powers to relocate were needed. balance for the rights of all people in this country, and Ministers know that it is hard to predict how long one of the most sacred rights is the right to a free and primary legislation will take, even when there is an fair trial. That opportunity has been lost today, but I imminent threat. The Joint Committee on the emergency believe that my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary legislation, which the Home Secretary set up, concluded has done her best to have a thorough and meaningful that it was a flawed response to difficult counter-terror review of the measures that the Government consider situations. That is not the way to set a stable framework appropriate for the times. This is not a mere nod-through for our security services to operate, and removing powers of legislation. The debate has been robust. in one Bill and promising to reinstate them in unspecified circumstances is a chaotic way to treat Parliament. Hazel Blears: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? While the Government are weakening the counter-terror Richard Fuller: Very briefly, yes. powers, however, they are at the same time weakening the safeguards, the checks and balances and the Hazel Blears: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. I parliamentary oversight. Our view is that we need strong know that he does not have much time. These are powers but also strong checks and balances, so the obviously incredibly difficult issues for anybody to Government are wrong to remove the annual vote and determine. What would he do with the handful of recourse to Parliament. These powers should be treated people for whom prosecution is not an effective route— as exceptional, not routine. If Parliament is prepared because of the need to safeguard intelligence—and who for such powers to be used, as I believe it should be, it cannot be deported or taken through the criminal justice should also be prepared and required to reflect on those system, but who pose a significant threat to the safety of exceptional powers each year, rather than waiting until the decent, law-abiding people in our country? 2017. Indeed, the Liberal Democrats should reflect carefully on what they have really achieved in this Richard Fuller: That is an interesting challenge. I will process, because if this emergency legislation is passed, be brief. I simply would not accept the premise that we not only will we be back where we started—round the cannot take them through the criminal justice system. Houses, through two new laws and back again—but we The whole thrust of my perspective is that we should will have restored all the same security powers, but with always seek to do that. That is what I would try to fewer checks and balances in place than we had when persuade Governments of all hues to do. When people, we started with control orders. of any hue, get to the Front Bench, they always have Instead of amending or withdrawing the Bill in the access to more information than the rest of us. It is hard face of these problems, the Government have tied themselves for the Executive branch ever to give up counter-terrorism in knots because they are still in thrall to their irresponsible powers, because they would face the sort of challenge pre-election promises. Legislation that began as a political that we have heard from the Opposition Front Bench fudge now looks more like treacle. This is not a responsible this evening—that perhaps there is some risk or that approach to national security, and nor is it a responsible someone will be caught out as a result of the changes. approach to Parliament. I hope that the decisions that However, it was always a risk that something could go the Home Secretary and the House are taking tonight wrong, even under control orders. The reason it is 137 Terrorism Prevention and 5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Terrorism Prevention and 138 Investigation Measures Bill Investigation Measures Bill wrong to give such powers exclusively to the Executive so that she can use them when she judges that to be and why they should rightly be in the hands of the appropriate. I hope that further consideration in the judiciary is that the judiciary can make a fair, non-political other place will lead to at least some changes, so that response to the matters of fact before it. the Home Secretary is empowered to protect the nation However, that opportunity has been lost. We shall rather than having her hands tied behind her back. again have to go through secret evidence, secret hearings, I would caution hon. Members on pre-legislative special advocates and no access for the suspect to the scrutiny, because, as I told the Minister earlier, I was on evidence against them. I trust our Home Secretary in the Committee that considered the draft legislation for her review, as many other hon. Members have said they pre-charge detention. That Committee came to a unanimous do. We trust that she has done this for balance, and we view—that such legislation is unsatisfactory and unreliable hope that she is right. However, let me end with a —but apart from one concession, I do not think that it quotation by Shami Chakrabarti of Liberty, which has found a listening ear among Ministers. been strongest in its opposition to the legislation: Let me finish. I have paid tribute to the way in which “But under that Act”— the Minister has conducted these debates, but surely he the Bail Act 1976— must find it at least ironic, if nothing else, that two days “you are heading for a charge…It may be a long process…but at after we completed consideration of the detail of the least you can stand outside the Old Bailey saying, ‘Justice has Bill in Committee the Home Secretary wrote to the been done’…The problem with these administrative, shadowy, court in the case of BM to say that a relocation condition quasi-judicial systems is that they potentially go on for ever and was essential. Thank goodness she was successful and youneverknowwhy.”––[Official Report, Terrorism Prevention the judge found in her favour. Relocation may be necessary and Investigation Measures Public Bill Committee, 21 June 2011; c. 50, Q137.] on occasions; it should be in the Bill, as should the other measures I have mentioned. We will put this Bill to a vote this evening, and I am sure that the Government will succeed. We will review the position again in five years and hopefully lose this part 9.49 pm of our legislation. Dr Huppert: On Second Reading, I said that I supported clause 1 wholeheartedly, but that I had reservations 9.46 pm about clauses 2 onwards. I feel exactly the same now. Paul Goggins: I thank the Minister for his generous We still have the same problems in that Executive power remarks about right hon. and hon. Members on the is being used and that it is outside our legal system. I Opposition Benches. In return, let me say that whatever wholeheartedly disagree with the approach being taken differences we have had—and we have had a few, in by the Opposition. The shadow Minister, the hon. Committee and again today—he has been courteous, Member for Bradford South (Mr Sutcliffe), has said, generous, thoughtful and constructive throughout. I astonishingly: thank him for that. Indeed, it is quite ironic that Opposition “Unfortunately, there are times when people have to be outside Members keep arguing that he and the Home Secretary the legal framework.”––[Official Report, Terrorism Prevention should be trusted more. It is Members on the Government and Investigation Measures Public Bill Committee, 23 June 2011; Benches who do not seem to want to do that. c. 57.] When the Bill was first published and when we debated I find that absolutely horrific. It is possible to do all this it on Second Reading, some commentators described it within a legal framework, as my hon. Friend the Member as “control orders lite”. Many comments were made to for Bedford (Richard Fuller) has said. In Committee, I that effect and, indeed, on close examination much of tabled amendments on police bail. I proposed a different the wording in the Bill appears—shall we say?—to be model on Report, but unfortunately we did not have an very similar to the wording of the Prevention of Terrorism opportunity to discuss it. They were slightly different Act 2005. However, it has become absolutely clear in models—the details were different—but they showed our debates that there are substantial differences between that there is a way forward, and that we can find a us in relation to the two-year limit, relocation, which normal, legal way of pursuing this process. has been debated again today, access to telephones and I do not welcome TPIMs—I certainly do not welcome crucially—this is increasingly important—the timing of enhanced TPIMs—but they are a step forward. I thank the commencement of the Bill’s provisions. We in the the Government for taking that step. It is rare for me to Opposition have tried through amendments to make quote the hon. Member for Stone (Mr Cash), who on constructive suggestions. Second Reading used an interesting phrase on which Let me say that party advantage in this case is cast hon. Members might wish to reflect. He argued: aside, and I know that the Minister understands and “The coalition is simply giving in to Lib-Dem pressure for this believes that. This is about protecting the public: that is Bill to comply with the Human Rights Act”.—[Official Report, the only thing that motivates me and my right hon. and 7 June 2011; Vol. 529, c. 69.] hon. Friends to get the legislation right. However, I now I am delighted to agree with him on this occasion, fear that the Government are in the worst of all places, although I think that Ministers are actually a bit more because in publishing the detailed draft legislation last sympathetic than he gave them credit for. week they conceded that the provisions in the Bill that The Bill is an improvement. We have already heard we are now debating are not sufficient in certain Opposition Members describe the benefits that it will circumstances. There may be circumstances where the bring compared with control orders. Relocation will go. enhanced powers would be required, yet because primary There will be no more internal exile, although there will legislation would be required to bring them into force, be some judicial oversight. That move was opposed by the hands of the Home Secretary are tied. Time is crucial, the Opposition—or, at least, by the majority of Labour and my right hon. and hon. Friends and I would Members; there were some honourable exceptions. Curfews certainly want to give the Home Secretary those powers, are over, but again that move was opposed by the 139 Terrorism Prevention and 5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Terrorism Prevention and 140 Investigation Measures Bill Investigation Measures Bill [Dr Huppert] under increased pressure at the very time that their budgets are being cut. They mean less control and more Opposition. The proposals involve time limits. Nobody surveillance. Surveillance itself compromises liberty, but will be able to be held indefinitely; there will be a does so simply in a more expensive and riskier way than two-year maximum. Again, the Opposition tabled do some of the extra powers that the Government have amendments to enable people to be held for longer. chosen to reject. People will have regulated access to phones and computers, To cap it all, in recent days we have seen the spectacle but again that was opposed by Labour. Those measures of the Government taking out an insurance policy will allow people who have not been convicted of any against their own Bill by publishing draft emergency offence to have a semblance of normal life. The Leader legislation but then refusing to add the powers to this of the Opposition has admitted that Labour made Bill. The Government have failed utterly in today’s errors over civil liberties, but it is clear that his party has debate to specify the circumstances under which that not listened to him and has not learned from its mistakes. insurance policy will be used. It is hard to escape the The Bill represents a small step forward, but it is conclusion that my right hon. Friend the Member for definitely a step in the right direction. The addition of Salford and Eccles (Hazel Blears) eloquently reached in the sunset clause makes it a step forward that I am her speech—that trade-offs within the coalition have willing to take, and I am delighted—not overjoyed; that shaped this policy. That is not good enough. We should would be overstating it—that we can take steps towards not compromise the safety of our citizens on that basis. improving our civil liberties. I will vote for the Bill I echo the hope and prayer of my right hon. Friend the tonight. shadow Home Secretary that none of the terrorist suspects who are granted increased freedoms under the Bill use 9.52 pm them to kill innocent people. I have to say in all sincerity Mr McFadden: I believe that the Bill is based on a that if they do, the public will not forgive the Ministers fundamentally mistaken premise—that liberty in our or the Government who have passed this measure tonight. country was undermined by laws passed by the previous Labour Government in their efforts to protect the public 9.56 pm and to combat terrorism. We have heard the Minister Bob Stewart: There is little time, so I shall try to put advance that argument many times during the debate. It my speech in bullet point form. I have no problem with is not, however, the laws passed by the last Labour TPIMs being called “control orders lite”. I believe we Government that threaten liberty. Liberty is threatened should think of evolution in security and I certainly by the ideology that fed the bombers of the London think that we should look at experience. underground, by the acts that they took part in, by plots I do not think terrorists will be able to get away with including those of the shoe bomber and the underpants terrorist acts when they are under investigation. I used bomber, as well as by other plots that have mercifully to watch them in Northern Ireland, but they could not either not worked or been foiled before they reached do anything once we had them under proper surveillance. fruition. If they are really innocent, they can always fully co-operate Both parties in the coalition have in different degrees with the Government and get off a TPIM, control order shared in that fundamentally mistaken premise, and or whatever as soon as possible. they have now brought it into the Government as the The threat comes from unknown people. We all know foundation for this Bill. I wonder whether, if we were that, as all these attacks have come from people whom talking about this in a year or two’s time, the Government the security services have not been able to identify. would still introduce such a Bill. I genuinely do not know the answer to that. What we have here is a I had a big problem with relocation, but I was reassured mistaken premise giving us wrong policy that will lead by what the Minister said about enhanced TPIMs—that to increased risk for the public. The Bill will give new we could do something about the matter quite quickly. rights to terrorist suspects. It will allow them freedom of I do not think that we have by any means reached a movement. It will grant them access to mobile phones definitive solution as yet. We are in an evolutionary and the internet. It will also put a two-year time limit on process. No one likes control orders, TPIMs or anything even the weakened provisions that TPIMs represent. like them, but we do not have any choice. The threat will change over time and our reaction to Mr Ellwood: I want to challenge the right hon. it will have to change over time. We will revisit many Gentleman’s point that any form of legislation could times in future the problem of what to do with people prevent a terrorist attack. If someone is convinced that who want to destroy our people. that is what they want to do, wherever they are based in Question put, That the Bill be now read the Third time. the UK and however they communicate, and whether they target the Olympics or somewhere else, they will The House divided: Ayes 297, Noes 221. conduct that attack, and possibly kill themselves as Division No. 334] [9.58 pm well. No legislation that we create in this House can prevent that. It is wrong to mislead the House and to AYES suggest that we can somehow over-legislate or protect Adams, Nigel Barclay, Stephen ourselves by what we do here. We cannot do that. Afriyie, Adam Baron, Mr John Aldous, Peter Barwell, Gavin Mr McFadden: If that is what the hon. Gentleman Andrew, Stuart Bebb, Guto believes, he should vote against the Bill because the Bacon, Mr Richard Beith, rh Sir Alan Minister is pretending that this offers some measure of Baker, Norman Bellingham, Mr Henry protection. These measures not only put the public at Baldry, Tony Benyon, Richard increased risk, but put the police and security services Baldwin, Harriett Beresford, Sir Paul 141 Terrorism Prevention and 5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Terrorism Prevention and 142 Investigation Measures Bill Investigation Measures Bill Berry, Jake Garnier, Mark Lloyd, Stephen Rosindell, Andrew Bingham, Andrew Gauke, Mr David Long, Naomi Rudd, Amber Binley, Mr Brian George, Andrew Lopresti, Jack Russell, Bob Birtwistle, Gordon Gibb, Mr Nick Lord, Jonathan Rutley, David Blackman, Bob Gilbert, Stephen Loughton, Tim Sanders, Mr Adrian Blackwood, Nicola Gillan, rh Mrs Cheryl Luff, Peter Sandys, Laura Boles, Nick Glen, John Lumley, Karen Selous, Andrew Bone, Mr Peter Goodwill, Mr Robert Macleod, Mary Shapps, rh Grant Bottomley, Sir Peter Grant, Mrs Helen May, rh Mrs Theresa Sharma, Alok Bradley, Karen Grayling, rh Chris Maynard, Paul Shelbrooke, Alec Brady, Mr Graham Green, Damian McCartney, Jason Simpson, David Brake, rh Tom Greening, Justine McCartney, Karl Simpson, Mr Keith Bray, Angie Grieve, rh Mr Dominic McCrea, Dr William Skidmore, Chris Brazier, Mr Julian Gummer, Ben McIntosh, Miss Anne Smith, Miss Chloe Bridgen, Andrew Gyimah, Mr Sam McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick Smith, Henry Brine, Mr Steve Hague, rh Mr William McPartland, Stephen Smith, Julian Brokenshire, James Halfon, Robert McVey, Esther Soames, rh Nicholas Brooke, Annette Hames, Duncan Mensch, Louise Soubry, Anna Bruce, Fiona Hammond, rh Mr Philip Menzies, Mark Spelman, rh Mrs Caroline Buckland, Mr Robert Hammond, Stephen Mercer, Patrick Spencer, Mr Mark Burley, Mr Aidan Hancock, Matthew Metcalfe, Stephen Stanley, rh Sir John Burns, Conor Hancock, Mr Mike Miller, Maria Stephenson, Andrew Burrowes, Mr David Hands, Greg Mills, Nigel Stevenson, John Burstow, Paul Harper, Mr Mark Milton, Anne Stewart, Bob Burt, Lorely Harrington, Richard Moore, rh Michael Stewart, Iain Byles, Dan Harris, Rebecca Mordaunt, Penny Stewart, Rory Cairns, Alun Hart, Simon Morgan, Nicky Streeter, Mr Gary Campbell, rh Sir Menzies Harvey, Nick Morris, Anne Marie Stride, Mel Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair Haselhurst, rh Sir Alan Morris, David Stuart, Mr Graham Carmichael, Neil Hayes, Mr John Morris, James Stunell, Andrew Chishti, Rehman Heath, Mr David Mosley, Stephen Sturdy, Julian Clappison, Mr James Heaton-Harris, Chris Mowat, David Swales, Ian Clark, rh Greg Hemming, John Mulholland, Greg Swayne, rh Mr Desmond Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey Herbert, rh Nick Mundell, rh David Syms, Mr Robert Coffey, Dr Thérèse Hinds, Damian Munt, Tessa Teather, Sarah Collins, Damian Hoban, Mr Mark Murray, Sheryll Thurso, John Colvile, Oliver Hollingbery, George Murrison, Dr Andrew Timpson, Mr Edward Cox, Mr Geoffrey Hollobone, Mr Philip Neill, Robert Tomlinson, Justin Crabb, Stephen Hopkins, Kris Newmark, Mr Brooks Tredinnick, David Crockart, Mike Horwood, Martin Newton, Sarah Truss, Elizabeth Davies, David T. C. Howarth, Mr Gerald Nokes, Caroline Turner, Mr Andrew (Monmouth) Huhne, rh Chris Norman, Jesse Tyrie, Mr Andrew Davies, Glyn Hunt, rh Mr Jeremy Nuttall, Mr David Uppal, Paul Davies, Philip Huppert, Dr Julian O’Brien, Mr Stephen Vaizey, Mr Edward de Bois, Nick James, Margot Offord, Mr Matthew Vara, Mr Shailesh Dinenage, Caroline Javid, Sajid Ollerenshaw, Eric Vickers, Martin Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Johnson, Gareth Opperman, Guy Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa Dodds, rh Mr Nigel Johnson, Joseph Ottaway, Richard Walker, Mr Robin Dorrell, rh Mr Stephen Jones, Andrew Paice, rh Mr James Walter, Mr Robert Doyle-Price, Jackie Jones, Mr David Parish, Neil Ward, Mr David Drax, Richard Kawczynski, Daniel Patel, Priti Watkinson, Angela Duddridge, James Kelly, Chris Paterson, rh Mr Owen Weatherley, Mike Duncan, rh Mr Alan Kennedy, rh Mr Charles Penning, Mike Wharton, James Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain Kirby, Simon Penrose, John Wheeler, Heather Dunne, Mr Philip Knight, rh Mr Greg Percy, Andrew White, Chris Ellis, Michael Kwarteng, Kwasi Phillips, Stephen Whittaker, Craig Ellison, Jane Laing, Mrs Eleanor Pickles, rh Mr Eric Whittingdale, Mr John Ellwood, Mr Tobias Lamb, Norman Pincher, Christopher Willetts, rh Mr David Elphicke, Charlie Lancaster, Mark Poulter, Dr Daniel Williams, Mr Mark Eustice, George Lansley, rh Mr Andrew Prisk, Mr Mark Williams, Stephen Evans, Jonathan Latham, Pauline Pugh, John Williamson, Gavin Evennett, Mr David Leadsom, Andrea Randall, rh Mr John Wilson, Mr Rob Fabricant, Michael Lee, Jessica Reckless, Mark Wollaston, Dr Sarah Farron, Tim Lee, Dr Phillip Redwood, rh Mr John Wright, Jeremy Field, Mr Mark Lefroy, Jeremy Rees-Mogg, Jacob Wright, Simon Reid, Mr Alan Foster, rh Mr Don Leslie, Charlotte Young, rh Sir George Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm Fox,rhDrLiam Letwin, rh Mr Oliver Zahawi, Nadhim Robathan, rh Mr Andrew Francois, rh Mr Mark Lewis, Brandon Robertson, Hugh Freeman, George Lewis, Dr Julian Tellers for the Ayes: Robertson, Mr Laurence Bill Wiggin and Freer, Mike Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian Rogerson, Dan Mark Hunter Fullbrook, Lorraine Lidington, rh Mr David Gale, Mr Roger Lilley, rh Mr Peter 143 Terrorism Prevention and 5 SEPTEMBER 2011 144 Investigation Measures Bill NOES Marsden, Mr Gordon Roy, Mr Frank McCabe, Steve Roy, Lindsay Abbott, Ms Diane Durkan, Mark McCann, Mr Michael Ruane, Chris Abrahams, Debbie Eagle, Ms Angela McCarthy, Kerry Ruddock, rh Joan Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob Eagle, Maria McClymont, Gregg Sarwar, Anas Alexander, rh Mr Douglas Efford, Clive McDonagh, Siobhain Seabeck, Alison Alexander, Heidi Elliott, Julie McDonnell, John Sheerman, Mr Barry Ali, Rushanara Ellman, Mrs Louise McFadden, rh Mr Pat Sheridan, Jim Allen, Mr Graham Esterson, Bill McGovern, Alison Shuker, Gavin Anderson, Mr David Field, rh Mr Frank McGovern, Jim Slaughter, Mr Andy Ashworth, Jonathan Flello, Robert McGuire, rh Mrs Anne Smith, Angela Austin, Ian Flint, rh Caroline McKechin, Ann Smith, Nick Bailey, Mr Adrian Flynn, Paul McKenzie, Mr Iain Smith, Owen Bain, Mr William Fovargue, Yvonne Meacher, rh Mr Michael Spellar, rh Mr John Balls, rh Ed Francis, Dr Hywel Meale, Sir Alan Straw, rh Mr Jack Banks, Gordon Gardiner, Barry Mearns, Ian Stringer, Graham Barron, rh Mr Kevin Gilmore, Sheila Michael, rh Alun Stuart, Ms Gisela Bayley, Hugh Glass, Pat Miliband, rh David Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry Beckett, rh Margaret Glindon, Mrs Mary Miller, Andrew Tami, Mark Begg, Dame Anne Goggins, rh Paul Moon, Mrs Madeleine Thomas, Mr Gareth Bell, Sir Stuart Goodman, Helen Morrice, Graeme (Livingston) Timms, rh Stephen Benn, rh Hilary Greatrex, Tom Morris, Grahame M. Trickett, Jon Benton, Mr Joe Green, Kate (Easington) Twigg, Derek Berger, Luciana Greenwood, Lilian Munn, Meg Twigg, Stephen Blackman-Woods, Roberta Griffith, Nia Murphy, rh Paul Umunna, Mr Chuka Blears, rh Hazel Gwynne, Andrew Murray, Ian Vaz, Valerie Blenkinsop, Tom Hain, rh Mr Peter Nandy, Lisa Walley, Joan Blunkett, rh Mr David Hamilton, Mr David Nash, Pamela Watson, Mr Tom Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Hamilton, Fabian O’Donnell, Fiona Watts, Mr Dave Brennan, Kevin Hanson, rh Mr David Onwurah, Chi Weir, Mr Mike Brown, rh Mr Nicholas Harris, Mr Tom Osborne, Sandra Whiteford, Dr Eilidh Brown, Mr Russell Havard, Mr Dai Owen, Albert Whitehead, Dr Alan Bryant, Chris Healey, rh John Pearce, Teresa Buck, Ms Karen Hendrick, Mark Wicks, rh Malcolm Perkins, Toby Burden, Richard Hepburn, Mr Stephen Williamson, Chris Phillipson, Bridget Byrne, rh Mr Liam Heyes, David Wilson, Phil Pound, Stephen Campbell, Mr Alan Hillier, Meg Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Qureshi, Yasmin Clark, Katy Hilling, Julie Wishart, Pete Raynsford, rh Mr Nick Clwyd, rh Ann Hodge, rh Margaret Wood, Mike Reed, Mr Jamie Coaker, Vernon Hodgson, Mrs Sharon Woodcock, John Reeves, Rachel Coffey, Ann Hood, Mr Jim Woodward, rh Mr Shaun Reynolds, Emma Connarty, Michael Hopkins, Kelvin Wright, David Reynolds, Jonathan Cooper, Rosie Hunt, Tristram Wright, Mr Iain Riordan, Mrs Linda Cooper, rh Yvette Irranca-Davies, Huw Robertson, John Corbyn, Jeremy Jamieson, Cathy Tellers for the Noes: Robinson, Mr Geoffrey Crausby, Mr David Johnson, Diana Graham Jones and Rotheram, Steve Creagh, Mary Jones, Helen Lyn Brown Creasy, Stella Jones, Mr Kevan Cruddas, Jon Jones, Susan Elan Question accordingly agreed to. Cryer, John Jowell, rh Tessa Cunningham, Alex Joyce, Eric Bill accordingly read the Third time, and passed, with Cunningham, Mr Jim Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald amendments. Cunningham, Tony Keeley, Barbara Curran, Margaret Kendall, Liz Business without Debate Dakin, Nic Khan, rh Sadiq Danczuk, Simon Lammy, rh Mr David David, Mr Wayne Lavery, Ian DELEGATED LEGISLATION Davies, Geraint Lazarowicz, Mark Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Davis, rh Mr David Leslie, Chris Order No. 118(6)), De Piero, Gloria Lewis, Mr Ivan Dobbin, Jim Lloyd, Tony Dobson, rh Frank Love, Mr Andrew INTERNATIONAL IMMUNITIES AND PRIVILEGES Docherty, Thomas Lucas, Caroline That the draft International Renewable Energy Agency (Legal Donohoe, Mr Brian H. Lucas, Ian Capacities) Order 2011, which was laid before this House on Doran, Mr Frank MacNeil, Mr Angus Brendan 8 June, be approved.—(Mr Newmark.) Dowd, Jim MacShane, rh Mr Denis Question agreed to. Doyle, Gemma Mactaggart, Fiona Dromey, Jack Mahmood, Shabana Dugher, Michael Mann, John 145 5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Waste and Recycling (Spelthorne) 146

Waste and Recycling (Spelthorne) people object to this, and I want to raise some of those objections on the Floor of the House, which is where Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House they should be heard. do now adjourn.—(Mr Newmark.) Indeed, Surrey county council insists that the gasification 10.13 pm chamber would facilitate treatment of waste in a more Kwasi Kwarteng (Spelthorne) (Con): I am especially sustainable and eco-friendly way than the mere landfill pleased to address this matter under your direction, site that currently exists. But it is difficult to see how this Mr Speaker, as it is very important for my constituents. change to gasification would be an improvement, given The issue that the debate will focus on is localism—the that gasifiers simply burn black bag waste without first localism philosophy, as it were—and more specifically separating the recyclables. This move would not improve the question of the extent to which county councils in a Surrey’s waste disposal facilities. There are severe and two-tier system should be allowed to overrule the will of important concerns about the fact that it could be borough councils and a significant degree of popular dangerous and could endanger the people who live near opinion within a particular borough. the gasification site. As many Members will know, I am the Member of Owing to the volatile nature of the gases used, the Parliament for a borough: the borough of Spelthorne. very process of gasification is risky. The Sterecycle It is coterminous with the parliamentary constituency, explosion in Rotherham reminds everyone why gasifiers which is a rare thing in our House of Commons. I am and facilities that produce modern electricity from waste therefore very grateful to the Minister for making time plants are, as a rule, located in places away from populations. to respond to some of the issues I wish to raise. I hope As people are well aware, and as I have said earlier in he can elucidate some of the Government’s ideas about this speech, this proposed development would be located localism, with particular regard to waste disposal and right in the heart of a highly densely populated area. recycling policy. People contend that the proposal to locate a large A waste and recycling centre is to be built in the chemical process plant—that is what this would mean—in south-east of my constituency, in the midst of two a public community recycling centre the development is densely populated residential areas: Upper Halliford putting residents’ lives at risk. If it is not putting their and Charlton village. More than 41,000 people live lives at risk, it is certainly potentially dangerous, given within a two-mile radius of the proposed site. Many the possibility of explosion. issues have been raised in the debate, with those on one In isolated locations with severe transport problems, side of it saying that the technology is essential. However, where waste cannot be moved with much ease, gasification it is my job as the Member of Parliament to articulate might be the best, if not the only, solution. That is the some of the concerns that many of my constituents case, for example, in the Austrian valleys, where gasifiers have about the proposed facility. were pioneered. I know that our winter weather has A community recycling centre and a waste transfer been more severe in recent years than in the past and facility already occupy part of the site, on which waste that we are facing alpine conditions almost every year, has been managed since the late 1940s. The new but to suggest that the Thames valley is, in any way, like development, planned by SITA, would involve the the Austrian Alps in terms of weather severity stretches construction of an additional anaerobic digestion plant the definition of “a simile” too far. I am sure that to dispose of Surrey’s food waste. Most worryingly to everyone would agree that the Thames valley is not like many constituents, it would impose on the constituency the Carpathian mountains. The Thames valley benefits a gasification chamber for the treatment of household from a good transport network and far more waste. This would triple the size of the existing 4.5 hectare environmentally friendly and sustainable waste solutions facility and would, most people agree, consume what is could be used there—in particular, integrated energy left of the adjoining green belt. recovery from waste schemes. We do not have to go People across the constituency and across the political down this gasifier route. That is the borough council’s divide have expressed considerable dismay at this proposal, argument and it enjoys a lot of support in my constituency. and a great deal of community spirit and co-operation Why would anyone want to build this gasifier and put has been shown in opposition to it. People have put it in the middle of a highly densely populated area? aside political allegiances and have come together to There is a simple reason; it boils down to money. The oppose the county council’s proposal. A dedicated group Government are offering generous financial subsidies in of residents from in and around Charlton and Halliford the form of renewables obligation certificates for electricity have set up “Spelthorne against the Eco Park”, and I recovered by gasification. That was instigated under the am very interested in their arguments and wish to previous Government in 2003 to support small community ventilate some of their concerns. Many other people projects in relatively isolated locations, such as those I from residents associations in neighbouring towns such have described. It was never envisaged for the south-east, as Sunbury, Shepperton and Kempton have campaigned Thames valley area, to which it is being sought to apply. against these developments. In my constituency, such an approach is inappropriate. Spelthorne borough council, which is in charge of The Sustainable Development Commission has Spelthorne, has responded to people’s concerns, as opposed recommended that only high-efficiency energy from to Surrey county council, which is one tier above it. The waste plants should typically receive Government support. borough council voted unanimously to reject SITA’s The approach is inappropriate is because this subsidy, plans on 26 January. In response to the vote, Surrey like a lot of subsidies in general, has been applied in a county council chose to ignore a large measure of blunderbuss fashion. No discrimination is applied; no residential opinion and went ahead and approved the particular sensitivity is shown to the location. As I have planning application. It peddled a story that this tried to stress, the location is of paramount importance. development is the best waste solution for Surrey. Other Of course a gasifier would make sense in a relatively 147 Waste and Recycling (Spelthorne)5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Waste and Recycling (Spelthorne) 148

[Kwasi Kwarteng] looked at the debate and at some of the representations made by my constituents and by the borough I represent, isolated community, for example, in a mountainous he will determine that SITA’s application is wholly region, where transferring waste is particularly difficult. inappropriate. My contention, and that of many of my constituents, is that it is simply inappropriate to build such a facility in 10.29 pm the midst of a highly densely populated area. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Bearing in mind the size of the development site in Communities and Local Government (Robert Neill): I question, the phenomenon of the subsidy being applied congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Spelthorne without any discrimination makes no sense. Gasification (Kwasi Kwarteng) on securing the debate on a topic is simply a way in which SITA can obtain maximum that I know is of concern to him and his constituents. It profit. The company receives, I believe, a £100 bonus for is a matter of real significance and he has done them a every megawatt of electricity it generates through service in the way in which he has put their case and gasification on top of the £30 value to the grid. Without their concerns. As he has pointed out, this relates to a subsidies and that perverse Government incentive, proposed waste and recycling centre in his constituency, construction of the gasification plant would, in the eyes which is within the metropolitan green belt. The current of many people, make absolutely no financial sense application is, as he said, for a facility to deal with because the generation of electricity through that means 40,000 tonnes of food waste and 60,000 tonnes of is far too low. household rubbish a year. In light of his careful opening of the facts, I need not repeat some of the factual detail We have here the prospect of a gasifier being built in of the application. It is worth saying that waste activities a densely populated area, largely for financial incentives. have taken place on the site since the 1940s. It is because SITA, which is content to burn recyclables for profit, the site lies within the metropolitan green belt that the will maximise the Government’s environmental subsidies authority has formally referred the application to the and would stand to gain while many people in the local Secretary of State under 2009 consultation regulations community feel that they would lose out. I do not regarding green belt development. believe that that was the intention of the then Government The fact that the proposal is before the Secretary of when they proposed subsidies for gasification, but State for determination on whether call-in is appropriate subsequent developments do not tally with current means that I have to be careful in what I can say. The environmental policy or chime well with the Government’s Secretary of State will take a decision not on the merits stated, well-publicised and well-known localism agenda. or otherwise of the application, but only on whether it Only last year, the Secretary of State for Energy and is appropriate for him to call it in so that he can take a Climate Change promised that this Government would decision as opposed to leaving the decision to the local only waste planning authority. As that is a quasi-judicial “support modern energy generation from waste where local decision, I, as the Minister speaking on his behalf, have communities want it and where it makes good environmental to be careful, as is normal in these cases, not to say sense”—[Official Report, 1 July 2010; Vol. 512, c. 977.] anything in the debate that might prejudice or give the appearance of prejudicing that quasi-judicial decision whereas his colleague, the Secretary of State for on whether to call in the application. I hope, therefore Communities and Local Government, has talked eloquently that my hon. Friend will forgive me if I cannot go into and consistently about devolving power to community some of the detail that he has set out in relation either groups and what might be termed the grass roots—the to the application or to some of the arguments regarding lowest level of the participatory democracy. the merits of various processes and technologies. If the Government are to honour their commitment I can, however, help him and his constituents by to localism and to do what they set out to do and what explaining the call-in process. About 475,000 planning they preach, surely when a borough council advocates applications are made to local authorities every year one idea and a county council advocates the diametric and the Secretary of State has powers, under section 77 opposite the choice should be clear. Under the principles of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990, to require of localism that choice should be in favour of the that applications be referred to him for determination borough council. The borough council has repeatedly rather than being determined by the local authority. In articulated the arguments I have outlined today and certain cases concerning green belt land, there is an many people believe that Surrey county council should automatic process of referral, as I have mentioned. have listened to its opposition to SITA and perhaps The current policy on how the Secretary of State supported it. As everyone knows, the county council is should exercise the call-in power was set out by the then at a higher level than the borough council so it seems Minister, , in June 1999. Examples were unclear to me and many of my constituents where the given of cases that may be called in, including those localism agenda fits in. If the county council is to get its which, in the Secretary of State’s opinion, could have way, where does localism find its voice? significant effects beyond their immediate locality; give The proposal now sits on the desk of my right hon. rise to substantial regional or national controversy; Friend the Secretary of State for Communities and appear to conflict with national policy on important Local Government. In the next few days, he will choose matters; or raise significant architectural and urban whether to refuse it, call it in for his determination or design issues. Other possible call-in cases are those allow it. I hope this debate and some of the concerns concerning the interests of national security or foreign that I have articulated on behalf of my constituents will Governments. That is the broad policy. be heeded and will have some tiny margin of influence The Secretary of State also has the power under on his decision. I hope that his decision will reflect some article 25 of the Town and Country Planning (Development of the issues I have raised and perhaps, after he has Management Procedure) (England) Order 2010 to issue 149 Waste and Recycling (Spelthorne)5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Waste and Recycling (Spelthorne) 150 a holding direction to the local authority instructing it to take more responsibility for their waste. They also not to grant permission on the application without his need to prepare and deliver planning strategies that authorisation. That is to allow him sufficient time to protect the green belt, as well as being consistent with give the issues raised his full consideration. My officials other planning policies. It is for local authorities to advise me that Surrey county council, which is the consider all national policies and local opinions and to planning authority for this purpose, was issued with an produce plans which represent the best solution for article 25 direction on 2 August 2011. That is the their areas. It is important that in doing so, local authorities background and context. are required to consult communities fully when preparing It is the Secretary of State’s policy, within the criteria their strategies. I have outlined, to be very selective about calling in As my hon. Friend said, his constituency is part of an planning applications. I have already said that there are area that has a two-tier system of local government. In about 475,000 planning applications a year to local planning all parts of the country where there is a two-tier system authorities, and it is worth noting that in 2010 only of county and district or borough councils, the county 13 cases were called in by the Planning Inspectorate for council is the waste planning authority, generally because inquiries to be held. I hope that puts the matter into context. the waste arising and its disposal tend to cover a wider My hon. Friend will be pleased to learn that the area than that of individual local planning authorities Secretary of State and the officials who advise him are represented by a district or borough council. The county currently considering the application and have received council is required to consult the district council on the 20 individual representations to call the application in. development of its strategic plans and on individual Their assessment will consider whether the planning waste applications. application itself or the issues raised by concerned The Government recently published their plans for a parties, such as those who have written in and whose new national planning policy framework, which is currently concerns have been articulated by my hon. Friend, out for consultation and is due to close on 17 October. justify the Secretary of State’s intervention based on the As my hon. Friend will have noticed, that draft framework call-in policy that I have just set out. It will then be for does not contain specific waste policies, because national Secretary of State or one of the Ministers in the Department waste planning policy will be published alongside the acting on his behalf to determine whether or not to national waste management plan for England, but local intervene in the matter. In doing that, the Secretary of authorities preparing waste plans should have regard to State will have regard to the call-in policy and to national policies in the framework. That includes the presumption policy generally in relation to such matters. in favour of sustainable development, which applies to I understand the concerns articulated by my hon. waste provision, and the importance of ensuring that Friend. I am sure he will appreciate that applications for there is sufficient detail to justify the need for and waste facilities are never popular, and almost invariably location of waste facilities. give rise to local objections, concerns and debate. Such Local authorities are responsible for approving or facilities are an essential part of the infrastructure necessary rejecting planning applications in line with their local to make our towns and cities function properly. They often plans, taking into account any representations that they provide a service beyond the immediate neighbourhood have received, and that is how localism fits into the in which they are situated, so there is a balance involved. issue: there is the context of national policy; within As I know my hon. Friend is aware, policy responsibility that, there are statutory responsibilities that fall, as for waste issues involves several parts of Government, appropriate, upon county, district or borough councils but responsibility for the planning part of the process as the planning authorities for particular classes of rests with my Department. It is understandable, therefore, application; and we are committed to giving local elected that concerns are raised. The planning system plays a representatives greater responsibility to make decisions critical role in delivering the Government’s targets on within the context of that structure. Where there are waste in a sustainable way, and we are committed to disagreements or two-tier areas, it is worth bearing in replacing the previously adversarial system that we have mind that the Localism Bill introduces a duty to co-operate, had in planning with one in which communities work giving local planning authorities and public bodies a together as a norm. requirement to engage in constructive and active dialogue The overall policy objective is to protect human on such matters. health and the environment by producing less waste and by using it as a resource where possible. We remain I hope that I have set out the context of the issues committed to that. Equally, the Government remain that my hon. Friend has raised. I assure him that I committed to protecting the green belt and maintaining understand the strength of feeling on this and on many the key policy that inappropriate development should similar issues, and that, in deciding whether to call in not be approved except in very special circumstances. In the application, the Secretary of State and his officials that balancing process, one must bear in mind that will take into account the points that my hon. Friend current national planning policy says that planning and his constituents have made. We are committed to authorities should recognise that the locational needs of ensuring that delays in the process are kept to a minimum. some types of waste management facilities, together I am therefore pleased to advise him that we aim to with the wider environmental and economic benefits issue a decision on the matter as soon as possible, and that I mentioned, are material considerations that should he of course will be formally notified of the decision, be given weight in determining whether proposals should once it is made, in the usual way. be given planning permission. Question put and agreed to. Local authorities also have a national and a European duty to prepare and deliver waste management and 10.41 pm planning strategies in a way that enables communities House adjourned.

1WS Written Ministerial Statements5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 2WS Written Ministerial COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT Fire Service College Statements The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Monday 5 September 2011 Communities and Local Government (Robert Neill): The Government see strong value in a national college for the fire and rescue service to deliver common, consistent TREASURY standards of safety-critical training and improved intra- operability across the service in support of resilience and to enable it to meet public expectations. HM Revenue and Customs (Repeal of the Scott However, the current Fire Service College ownership Undertaking) and business arrangements do not provide the flexibility necessary for the college to operate with sufficient commercial success. As we said in our response to “Fire The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Mr David Futures”, the Government wish to explore options for a Gauke): Sir Richard Scott undertook an inquiry following new ownership, operational and governance model for the collapse, in 1992, of the trial of a UK company the Fire Service College which, through greater involvement known as Matrix Churchill for the alleged supply of from other sectors—whether private, public or voluntary— prohibited weapons components to Iraq. In the course secures its future, supports national resilience and provides of his studies Sir Richard identified an instance where a best value for the public purse. visit to a company by HM Customs and Excise (HMCE), ostensibly for a VAT audit, had been used to see if the The Government’s preferred option for a Fire Service company was involved in the supply of components for College of the future is a partnership between the weapons. Sir Richard thought this covert action amounted public and private sectors with the fire sector playing a to unlawful trespassing, as the primary concern of the key role in that partnership. While a public/private visit was a non-VAT matter, and recommended against sector partnership is the preferred option, we do not its use. HMCE accepted the recommendation and reported wish to close off other options and would welcome this to Parliament on 25 June 1996. This voluntary ideas on whether other arrangements may be more forbearance is known as the “Scott undertaking” and it suitable has been the HMCE, now HM Revenue and Customs To inform its view of market appetite and viable (HMRC), policy position ever since. options, the Department for Communities and Local The Scott undertaking, restricting certain covert activity Government is today launching a short phase of pre-market by HMCE and now HMRC criminal investigators, was engagement. This will allow interested parties to offer made at a time when there was no human rights compliant clear views on the future of the college, and the Department legislation allowing covert entry on to property. This to assess the reaction of the market to the overarching changed with the enactment of the Police Act 1997. aim of delivering a new model for the Fire Service College. The Police Act 1997 regulatory regime now in place provides a legal framework for the type of covert activity A copy of the pre-market engagement document can identified by Sir Richard. The process is sufficiently be found on the Department’s website at: robust to ensure that such covert investigation activity http://www.communities.gov.uk/fire/firerescueservice/ is only used in the most serious cases when the tests of collegefutureoptions. necessity and proportionality are met. The action is authorised by a designated authorising officer and the DCLG (Summer Recess Work) activity then approved by the Office of Surveillance Commissioners. The Secretary of State for Communities and Local As a result, the undertaking given by HMCE following Government (Mr Eric Pickles): I would like to update the Scott report has been overtaken by the Police Act 1997 hon. Members on the main items of business undertaken and the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000. by my Department since the House rose on 20 July But because HMRC continues to observe the Scott 2011. undertaking, legitimate investigation activity is not being Supporting High Street Recovery used. As I outlined in my written statement of 11 August In September 2009 this issue was raised with the 2011, Official Report, column 121WS, my Department inspectors of the Office of Surveillance Commissioners has taken a leading role in cross-government action to during their annual inspection of HMRC. The chief help rebuild communities, open up shops and to help surveillance commissioner, Sir Christopher Rose, residents and councils get their areas back to normal as subsequently considered the issue and concluded that quickly as possible in the aftermath of the public disorder. HMRC’s adherence to the Scott undertaking served no With the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation useful purpose and was likely to inhibit otherwise proper, and Skills, we are providing an additional £20 million to human rights compliant, investigative processes. Sir create a new high street support scheme. The flexible Christopher wrote to the director of criminal investigation scheme is aimed at supporting the specific streets and on 6 January 2010 setting out this position and expressing areas where businesses suffered most. Local authorities his support for steps to release HMRC from its undertaking will be able to use it to fund the proportion of hardship to adhere to the Scott recommendation. relief from business rates that would otherwise fall to HMRC will be released from the Scott undertaking them, and to help affected firms to get back up and from the date of this statement. running quickly. 3WS Written Ministerial Statements5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 4WS

In addition we announced a £10 million recovery allowing vital regeneration work to continue bringing fund to help councils with the immediate costs of making wider economic development and other benefits to local their areas safe, clear and clean again, including funding communities. council tax relief. The Government will also meet councils’ Improving the Planning System immediate costs for helping people who have had to We believe that planning policy should promote leave their home as a result of the rioting. sustainable growth and responsible development rather Helping Local Shops and Local Firms than hinder it. On 1 August, I announced that centrally imposed On 25 July, my colleague, the Minister with responsibility limits on town centre car parking spaces will be scrapped, for cities, decentralisation and planning, the Minister of providing a boost to high streets and giving councils State, Department for Communities and Local greater freedom to support local business and town Government, the right hon. Member for Tunbridge centres. Wells (Greg Clark) announced a new, simpler national My Department recognises the vital economic and planning policy framework which streamlines over social role of pubs in the local community. On 2 August, 1000 pages to 52 pages. The draft framework, which is the Under-Secretary of State for Communities and open for consultation, is a key part of our reforms to Local Government, the hon. Member for Bromley and make the planning system less complex and more accessible, Chislehurst (Robert Neill), launched a review of restrictive and to promote sustainable growth. covenants, a legal clause that can be used to prevent The document is underpinned by powerful protections community pubs reopening as public houses following for communities to safeguard the natural and historic a sale. By changing the use of certain restrictive covenants, environment. It underlines the need for local authorities communities would also be given greater opportunities to work closely with communities and businesses and to to use the new “community right to buy” power in the seek actively opportunities for sustainable growth to Localism Bill. deliver the homes, jobs, and infrastructure needed for a On 25 August, new figures published by my Department growing population while protecting the environment illustrated how businesses are benefiting from the doubling This Government want to simplify the planning system of small business rate relief. We are determined to and make it less bureaucratic for everyone. On 29 July ensure that even in a tough financial climate, local we set out our intention to local authorities to introduce businesses are able to thrive when given the right support. a new “planning guarantee” which will speed up local Driving Local Growth and Regeneration planning applications meaning that no planning application The Government are determined to help ensure that should take longer than 12 months to make a decision. Britain is the best place in the world to start and grow Local people will be able to see how their councils business and we believe this begins at the local level. It is perform against the guarantee using information which local business and commerce that drive the private is made available by councils as frequently as possible. sector growth, jobs and wealth that this country needs. We recognise the significance of positive planning on On 17 August, together with the Prime Minister, the the wider community and believe that the current system Chancellor of the Exchequer and the Secretary of State has impeded the expansion of good schools. On 15 August, for Business, Innovation and Skills, I announced 11 new together with the Secretary of State for Education, I enterprise zones. This brings the total to 22 enterprise introduced a new planning statement to support the zones across the country that will accelerate local growth, expansion of popular state schools and the creation of generate thousands of jobs and attract hundreds of new free schools. The new guidance is a boost for state start-up firms. The zones will benefit from simplified education and local promoters of the Government’s planning rules, super-fast broadband and over £150 million flagship free schools programme, who can now be confident of tax breaks for new business for the next four years. their proposals will be processed swiftly in response to The introduction of enterprise zones is just one of over demand from local people. 100 reforms being taken forward as part of the On 27 August, the Minister of State for Housing and Government’s “Plan For Growth”, announced at Budget Local Government, Department for Communities and 2011, to create the conditions for strong, sustainable Local Government, encouraged local authorities to consider and balanced growth. how reforms across the planning system and new powers On 17 August, I also announced a £20 million enterprise restoring local control over housing provision could be and growth package for Tottenham and Croydon to used to create more housing supply by enabling people address the long-standing barriers to growth which to have more opportunities to choose innovative housing were further compounded by the recent riots. The London solutions—such as residential moorings. enterprise fund is intended to provide specific, targeted On 27 August, my Department published a new and support to these areas to arrest and reverse economic simple guide for communities wanting to start up, share decline, provide immediate investment and to boost the or save their own community orchards that could help local economies. reverse the national decline in traditional orchards. The We have taken swift action to restore the flow of guide will form part of a series that continues with our regeneration funding from the European Union after a commitment to cutting out red tape and making it period of interruption caused by irregularities in projects easier for communities to protect the spaces they value under the last Administration. The European Commission most. has welcomed new measures taken by the Government In addition to this on 30 August I outlined how new to standardise the monitoring system and introduce a planning reforms in the Localism Bill can be used by programme of enhanced checks. On 1 August, the local communities to classify green spaces such as bowling Commission confirmed it would lift the interruption on greens and safeguard them from the threat of development payments of European development funding in England or closure. 5WS Written Ministerial Statements5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 6WS

On 31 August, my colleague, the Minister of State are required to consult those using, or likely to use, a with responsibility for cities, decentralisation and planning, local service. This should include community and voluntary announced an additional 36 “front-runner” areas that organisations. will test out neighbourhood planning, bringing the Augmenting Transparency in Government total to 126 across the country. Each front-runner’s The Department is continuing its commitment to local council is being given £20,000 to support work on deliver transparent and open government to drive out neighbourhood planning and free advice from planning waste, protect front-line services and ensure value for experts will be available for the local community. money to the taxpayer. We want to make it easier for Delivering a Fairer Housing System local people to see how their money is being spent. On On 3 August, the Minister of State for Housing and 22 July we launched a new online search engine to show Local Government announced plans to speed up the residents when they could use their rights to inspect process for evicting tenants from homes when all other their council’s detailed financial spending and ledgers. efforts to curb their antisocial behaviour have failed. On 21 July, my Department published a further group The new mandatory power for possession will speed up of reports presenting the findings from research projects the possession process by allowing previous convictions commissioned by the previous Administration. There for serious antisocial behaviour to trigger eviction remains a backlog of unpublished reports that were proceedings and short-cut the often long and expensive produced by the previous Government. The reports and process which often requires landlords to prove again findings are of general policy interest, but do not relate the actions of their tenants. I announced our intention to forthcoming policy announcements. We are publishing to include, as part of this consultation, a proposal to these documents in the interests of transparency and as make necessary changes to housing legislation so that part of our freedom of information commitment to landlords will have even stronger powers to evict tenants publish the results of all commissioned research. The who engage in serious antisocial behaviour or criminal latest batch relate to resilience, and can be found online activity such as rioting beyond the local neighbourhood. at: http://www.communities.gov.uk/archived/general-content/ On 25 August the Minister of State also outlined corporate/researcharchive/volume7resilience/. plans that give councils more financial freedoms to We believe that the public has the right to see the improve, buy and build new housing for the local scale and variety of publicly owned assets and we have community. The proposals will allow councils more urged councils and other public bodies to publish their flexibility to trade their assets and use the receipts to own assets lists that will help to identify billions of enable further investment new homes and regenerating pounds of potential savings. In recognising the huge the local area. worth of public assets we have also committed to working Increasing Freedoms for Local Government with areas seeking to make savings through better property Continuing our commitment to give councils greater management. On 5 August, my Department published financial freedom, on 25 July, we once again opened up a demonstration map outlining over 180,000 publicly applications for councils to apply to borrow and sell owned assets which helps to illustrate the potential against their assets to enable them to tackle historic pay scope for savings. inequalities while protecting front-line services. The deadline I am placing in the Library copies of the departmental for applications is 16 September 2011. press notices and papers associated with the announcements above. On 2 August, I set out our proposals to localise support for council tax, freeing up billing authorities to decide how best to support working-age households DEFENCE and establish stronger incentives for councils to get people back into work. These changes sit alongside the Government’s wider welfare reforms that are focused Chinook Contract on ending a culture of benefit dependency, and in order to protect the positive work incentives and distributional The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence impacts of universal credit some changes to the universal (Peter Luff): The Secretary of State for Defence announced credit design may be required. The Government will on 18 July that, as a result of the Government’s commitment provide further detail in the next few months. to a real-terms rise in the equipment budget of 1% after Since August 2010, we have been examining the most 2015, he had given the go-ahead for the procurement of cost-effective way to disband the Audit Commission, 14 Chinook helicopters, 12 to expand the fleet and two transferring audit into the private sector and allowing to replace those lost on operations in Afghanistan in local authorities to appoint their own auditors. Determining 2009. the best value-for-money approach, on 28 July, I announced I am pleased to be able to confirm that we have now that the commission will outsource all its in-house local signed a contract with Boeing for their delivery. This public work to the private sector in the next financial will expand the Chinook fleet to a total of 60, which year. will provide a significant capability lift to the front line. On 2 September, my Department published guidance The total value of the procurement including development, to local authorities on how to protect voluntary and manufacture, and support for the first five years is community groups from disproportionate cuts to their approximately £1 billion. funding. The guidance, which reduces 56 pages of The first of the new Chinooks will enter into service prescriptive statutory guidance to one page, outlines with the Royal Air Force in May 2014, making an how councils can achieve best value in their areas. In immediate contribution to the operation of the UK deciding how best to fulfil their best value duty, councils Chinook capability and allow more of the mature airframes 7WS Written Ministerial Statements5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 8WS in the fleet to be available for operations in Afghanistan HOME DEPARTMENT in 2014 should they be required. All of the new Chinooks will be delivered by December 2015. Three helicopters EU-Australia PNR Agreement will be ready for operational deployment in early 2015 and all 14 will be fully operational by early 2017. This significant uplift in helicopter capability is just another The Minister for Immigration (Damian Green): The in a series of steps we are taking to modernise our coalition Government are firmly committed to protecting armed forces and meet the adaptable posture outlined the security of their citizens and to defending their civil in the strategic defence and security review. liberties. Our experience is that both security and privacy are possible. We must resist trading one off against the DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER other as some would wish us to do. We are firmly committed to consistency in our approach Boundary Commission for Wales to civil liberties and will seek to translate our domestic agenda to the EU level—this includes purpose limitation; rigorous evidence-based arguments; the principles of The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Mr Mark necessity and proportionality; stringent data protection Harper): On 22 June, the Welsh Government published safeguards, especially when handling sensitive personal an independent report into the recent work of the Local data; independent data protection oversight; and, of Government Boundary Commission for Wales (LGBCW). course, full compliance with EU law and the EU treaties. On the same day the Welsh Government Minister for Local Government and Communities announced that The UK, in common with many other EU member the appointments of the LGBCW commissioners were states and third countries, places considerable value on to be terminated, in light of the report’s conclusions. the collection and analysis of passenger name record (PNR) data (that data collected by carriers in the exercise Two of the LGBCW commissioners also serve as of their business) for the purpose of preventing terrorism commissioners on the Boundary Commission for Wales and serious crime. The appropriate use of PNR data is (BCW), which makes recommendations to the UK vital in keeping the public safe. Government on the determination of Westminster parliamentary constituency boundaries. In line with this view, the Government continue to At my invitation, the commissioners concerned made press for an EU PNR directive that includes provision representations about their positions on the BCW.They for intra EU flights. The Government also believe that also set out their views on the termination of their clear PNR agreements between the EU and third countries appointments as LGBCW commissioners, insofar as it play a vital role in removing legal uncertainty for air affected their positions as BCW commissioners. carriers flying to those countries, and help ensure that PNR information can be shared quickly and securely, The commissioners have both offered to resign from with all necessary data protection safeguards in place. the BCW in order to ensure that it is best able to complete the important task that Parliament entrusts to This agreement replaces the EU-Australia PNR it. I welcome the commitment of the commissioners in agreement which has been applied provisionally from this regard and on that basis their resignations have June 2008. The European Parliament postponed its been accepted. vote on that agreement and asked the Commission to come forward with a single model for international Ministers have begun the process of making replacement agreements before it took a final vote. On 21 September appointments, following the code of practice published 2010 the European Commission published a by the Commissioner for Public Appointments. The communication on the global approach to transfers of replacements will be made swiftly and the Government PNR data to third countries, together with a package of will take the necessary steps to ensure that there is no draft negotiating mandates for PNR agreements with risk to the deadline set by Parliament for the completion Australia, Canada and the United States. In response to of the parliamentary constituency boundary review this, the Council presented a draft Council decision to that is currently underway. authorise the Commission to open negotiations for PNR agreements with Australia, Canada and the US, EDUCATION together with draft negotiating guidelines (collectively referred to as the negotiating mandates). Use of Force (Schools) The UK opted into these negotiating mandates in December 2010 and announced this decision to Parliament The Minister of State, Department for Education on 20 December 2010. (Mr Nick Gibb): On 23 June this year I made a statement We fully recognise the importance of working with announcing that the Secretary of State had asked his partners outside the EU given that the threats we face expert adviser on behaviour, Charlie Taylor, to review are global in nature and, in common with other EU the implications for schools of the requirement to record member states, we view Australia as a key partner. and report the use of force in schools, and that, subject I wish to bring to Parliament’s attention that, after to the outcome of that review, it was our intention to due consideration of civil liberty, data protection and commence this requirement on 1 September 2011. security issues, the Government have decided to opt in In the light of the results of this review, the Secretary to the Council decisions to sign and conclude the of State has decided not to commence this requirement EU-Australia PNR agreement. and will seek to repeal it at the first suitable legislative In particular, the agreement; opportunity. Restricts the purposes for which data can be processed to the Copies of Charlie Taylor’s report have been placed in prevention of and combating of terrorist offences and serious the Libraries of both Houses. transnational crime; 9WS Written Ministerial Statements5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 10WS

Makes express provision for data security; rates are more than three times the emergency threshold, Restricts the period for which data may be retained to five and tens of thousands are thought to have already died. and a half years, with data being masked after three years Many of those who are still strong enough have fled—to unless it is required for an ongoing investigation; Mogadishu, where I witnessed at first hand the depth of Provides that the masking mechanism shall be reviewed one the crisis a few weeks ago—and to camps in Ethiopia year after entry into force and suggests archiving as an and Kenya. When I visited Dadaab in north-eastern alternative method of restricting access if masking does not prove to be efficient or cost-effective; Kenya in July, I saw how agencies have struggled to Prohibits the use of sensitive personal data and mandates keep up with the flow of new arrivals. The camps there the Australian Customs and Border Protection Service to represent the biggest concentration of refugees anywhere delete any such data it may receive from carriers; in the world. Provides for the oversight of the Australian Information While Somalia remains our chief concern, the situation Commissioner; in Ethiopia and Kenya is also deeply worrying. More Sets out rights of access, rectification and erasure and redress; people are affected by the crisis in Ethiopia than any Contains specific provisions about data retention, including other country in the region; according to Government who may have access to the data throughout the retention figures, 4.56 million people are in need of humanitarian periods; assistance. Ethiopia hosts 240,000 refugees—over 75,000 Regulates the transfer of PNR data to other Australian from Somalia arriving this year. In Kenya, the worst Government authorities; affected areas are in the northern and eastern arid and Only permits onward data transmission to a third country semi-arid lands; over 500,000 children and pregnant on a case-by-case basis and for the purposes outlined above. The data may not be transmitted further without the permission and breastfeeding women are suffering from acute of the Australian Customs and Border Protection Service. malnutrition. The Council decisions to sign and conclude the agreement Across the region, the crisis is made even worse by were deposited on 23 May. These can be found at the conflict and insecurity.Over the weekend, 20,000 Sudanese following links: refugees crossed into Ethiopia fleeing violence in eastern Council decision to sign: Sudan. And in the worst affected parts of Somalia, http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/ insecurity means that many of those in most need LexUriServ.do?uri=COM:2011: 0280:FIN:EN:PDF. cannot be reached. Officials in my Department are Council decision to conclude: working closely with a small number of well-established http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/ and trusted agencies that can deliver effectively on the LexUriServ.do?uri=COM:2011:0281:FIN:EN:PDF. ground, ensuring aid reaches those it is intended for. The Government will continue to work with the Let me be clear that across the horn the situation will Scrutiny Committees when they consider whether to worsen before it improves, with the situation forecast to opt in to Council decisions to sign and conclude the US be at its most dire in October. Relief efforts are now and Canada PNR agreements once these agreements reaching more people every week, but although donor are published, and will of course update Parliament on support and the volume of assistance in the pipeline the Government’s opt in decisions. have increased significantly, there remain serious gaps. Diseases such as cholera, measles and malaria represent a growing threat to the weakened population. It is vital INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT that increased support flows into the health and water Famine (Horn of Africa) and sanitation sectors. Although the situation remains grave, UK aid is working. Our support is already showing results: The Secretary of State for International Development In Somalia the UK will vaccinate at least 1.3 million children (Mr Andrew Mitchell): I would like to update the House against measles and 670,000 against polio. Some 624,000 on the drought in the horn of Africa and on the UK children will receive vitamin A inputs and at least 528,000 Government’s response. children will receive de-worming medication; The drought has prompted the most serious food In Ethiopia in June and July, the UK helped to provide food insecurity situation in the world today. Across the region, to 2.4 million people with 1.68 million people benefitting 18 million people require emergency assistance. The from UK funded food aid programmes in May; UK continues to be at the forefront of the world’s UK support has also provided over 45,000 people with food response—I can report that Britain was one of the first distributions or vouchers for food in Somalia. By the end of this week, an additional 35,000 will have been provided with donors to step forward with significant funds. Following cash to buy food; my announcement on 17 August of an additional A further 18,000 of the most severely malnourished Somali £29 million for Somalia, our contribution across the children will have been treated with specially formulated horn stands at £124.29 million, which we estimate will food; provide assistance to over 3 million people. We are the A consignment of over 10,000 metric tonnes of specially second largest bilateral donor behind the US. These formulated flour, rice, pulses, and oil for the prevention and funds have been reallocated from elsewhere in Britain’s treatment of moderately malnourished children is now en development budget. The British public, too, is showing route to Somalia; incredible compassion and commitment, raising more Almost 160,000 mosquito nets have been purchased to prevent than £57 million through the Disasters Emergency weakened children and their families succumbing to malaria. Committee East Africa appeal. Unfortunately, other countries have been slower to Southern Somalia is the area of most concern. The contribute. That is why, throughout the summer, we first famine of the 21st century was declared there in have relentlessly pushed donor Governments across the two regions in late July and further news from the UN world to dig deeper. This has yielded results and relief earlier today means that 750,000 people face imminent operations are now on a stronger financial footing. But starvation in the next four months. In places, malnutrition acute humanitarian needs will persist into 2012 and 11WS Written Ministerial Statements5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 12WS

Britain will continue to play a leading role in keeping on the rights, support and protection of victims of the world’s attention focused, and pushing for sustained crime. The directive meets the criteria set out in the international support. coalition agreement with regard to EU Justice and Ultimately, we need to stop these crises happening. Home Affairs measures. We cannot avoid droughts, but we can avoid famines. We are already investing in building the resilience of In accordance with the coalition agreement, the communities to shocks. There is clear evidence that Government have stated that they will approach these investments work, as we can see from the impact forthcoming legislation in the area of criminal justice of the crisis in Somalia, compared to Ethiopia, where on a case-by-case basis, with a view to maximising our people were better able to deal with the shock. We must country’s security, protecting Britain’s civil liberties and build on this success. preserving the integrity of our criminal justice systems. By opting in to this directive we will have the opportunity In the long run, investing more effectively in reducing to strongly influence the text and ensure that the minimum poverty and reinforcing resilience is not only better standards victims can expect throughout the EU are value for money than emergency relief, but will help clear, appropriate and affordable. those affected to break out of the cycle of disaster. In Somalia and the region, however, we need political We welcome the proposed directive, which will benefit progress to ensure aid can be used most effectively. UK citizens who are victims in other EU member states. They will be afforded minimum rights, support JUSTICE and protection to a level similar to that they would receive as a victim of crime in the UK. The directive will Victims of Crime Directive allow UK citizens to move throughout the EU with confidence that should they fall victim to crime in any member state, their rights will be respected when The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice participating in criminal proceedings and they will be (Mr Kenneth Clarke): The Government have decided to able to access a minimum level of support across opt in to the directive on establishing minimum standards the EU. 1P Petitions5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Petitions 2P

used to fund a wide range of infrastructure that is Petitions needed as a result of development. This includes transport schemes, flood defences, schools, hospitals and other Monday 5 September 2011 health and social care facilities, parks, green spaces and leisure centres. OBSERVATIONS Further details on planning obligations and the Community Infrastructure Levy can be found on the Department for Communities and Local Government COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT website: Development (Higham Ferrers, Northamptonshire) http://www.communities.gov.uk/planningandbuilding/ planningsystem/communityinfrastructurelevy/ The Humble Petition of residents of Higham Ferrers, Northamptonshire and the surrounding areas Development on the Riverside Gardens, Erith Sheweth, The Petition of residents of the London Borough of that the Petitioners believe that the application to Bexley, build 115 new houses at the north end of Station road in Higham Ferrers will put intolerable pressure on public Declares that the petitioners oppose Bexley Council’s services and local infrastructure, in particular the A6/A45 Erith Gateway plan to allow for blocks of flats to be junction at Chowns Mill which is already severely congested, built on part of the Riverside Gardens in Erith; that the pressure on already overcrowded schools, demands on Riverside Gardens were gifted to the people of Erith by public transport which is already inadequate, additional the former coal company William Cory and Son for use burdens on the already hard pressed on the local NHS; by the local community; and that the Riverside Gardens that the application should not be approved until significant should be designated a Town Green and protected as an improvements have been made in local infrastructure. open green space. Wherefore your Petitioners pray that your Honourable The Petitioners therefore request that the House of House urges the Secretary of State for Communities Commons urges the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government to liaise with Secretary of State and Local Government to allow for greater protection for Transport and East Northamptonshire District Council for green areas of particular importance to local and Higham Ferrers Parish Council to find a solution communities in the Localism Bill, as outlined in his to the overdevelopment of Higham Ferrers and lack of Department’s plan 2011-2015. infrastructure. And the Petitioners remain, etc.—[Presented by Teresa And your Petitioners, as in duty bound, will ever Pearce, Official Report, 13 July 2011; Vol. 531, pray, &c.—[Presented by Mr Peter Bone, Official Report, c. 426-27.] 19 July 2011; Vol. 531, c. 7P.] [P000949] [P000938] Observations from the Secretary of State for Communities Observations from the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, received 18 August 2011: and Local Government, received 17 August 2011: East Northamptonshire District Council is responsible The Government are committed to passing power for the day-to-day planning control in their areas, and and freedoms to local communities and opening up the Secretary of State cannot comment on the merits or greater opportunities for them to influence what happens otherwise of any planning application. The Government’s in the neighbourhoods where they live. On 25 July, the policy is not to interfere with the jurisdiction of a local Department for Communities and Local Government planning authority unless it is necessary to do so. This is published for consultation a new, simpler framework because local authority councillors are elected to represent for the planning system. The new National Planning the views of local people and, in the main, it is these Policy Framework streamlines planning policy into an councillors who are in the best position to decide whether easy to understand set of policies that enable local a development should go ahead. communities in producing their own plans to reflect In determining a planning application the local planning their distinctive needs and priorities. The draft Framework authority is required to have regard to all material takes forward the Government’s commitment in the considerations including the development plan, national Natural Environment White Paper to allow communities policies and views expressed by third parties. to earmark important local green spaces for special In relation to the perceived lack of infrastructure, protection. petitioners may wish to make enquiries of the local The Government want to avoid the rigid rules that authority about whether a planning obligation is being apply to statutory designations. They believe that local negotiated. Planning obligations are private agreements people know best the local green spaces that are special between local planning authorities and persons with an to them and are therefore proposing that local communities interest in the land (usually developers), in order to should be able to use their local and neighbourhood make developments acceptable in planning terms. plans to designate these areas. As local people plan for Policy on the use of planning obligations is set out in the sustainable development needed in their communities, Circular 5/05. they will be able to use the new powers in the draft Petitioners will also be interested in the details of the framework to give special protection to green areas that Community Infrastructure Levy, which came into force have a particular local significance. This local significance in April 2010. This will allow local authorities in England could be because of the green area’s beauty, historic and Wales to raise funds from developers undertaking importance, recreational value, tranquillity or richness new building projects in their area. The money can be of its wildlife. 3P Petitions5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Petitions 4P

The Government are proposing that the new Local EDUCATION Green Space designation should afford strong protection, McMillan Daycare Nursery (Hull) because of the importance of green spaces to the health and happiness of local communities. Local policy for The Petition of Kerry Stansfield and Abigail Flavell, managing development within a Local Green Space will Declares that statements made by Ministers of the therefore be expected to be consistent with policy for Crown to the effect that Sure Start children’s centres Green Belts. This means that by designating land as across the country have sufficient funding to continue Local Green Space local communities will be able to providing the level of service that they have attained in rule out new development other than in very special recent years, appear to be contradicted by the reductions circumstances. that are happening across the country; further declares The Government are keen to hear views on the draft that the petitioners believe that the resulting reduction National Planning Policy Framework and the proposed in the affordable childcare in children’s centres will Local Green Space designation. The draft framework is discourage some parents from seeking employment and available via the Department for Communities and will prove damaging for the long-term development of Local Government’s website: children. www.communities.gov.uk/publications/planningandbuilding/ The Petitioners therefore request that the House of draftframeworkconsultation Commons urges Ministers to review the funding arrangements for children’s centres to ensure that the valuable investment in the future that they represent is protected. Licensing of Mobile Home Parks And the Petitioners remain, etc.—[Presented by Diana Johnson, Official Report, 14 June 2011; Vol. 529, c. 750.] The Petition of the residents of Palma Park Homes, [P000929] Loughborough, Leicestershire Observations from the Secretary of State for Education, Declares that the Petitioners are concerned about the received 4 August 2011: standards of conduct exhibited by the owner of Palma Through the Spending Review, the Government Park Homes. prioritised early years provision. The Government want The Petitioners therefore request that the House of to reform early years education and children’s centres so Commons urges the Government to introduce a fair, that all children and families receive the support they clear and simple licensing system for those owning need, particularly the most vulnerable. Sure Start children’s mobile home parks, so that licence holders must show centres are now being funded through the Government’s that they are fit and proper persons to hold such a Early Intervention Grant (EIG) provided to local licence, and that any regulations or legislation should authorities. There is enough money in the grant to set out how a licence may be revoked if a licence holder retain a network of children’s centres. Ministers have is found by the local authority to no longer meet the fit been clear that they want children’s centres to maintain and proper criteria. their presence as community hubs, but with a greater focus on supporting those families in greatest need. And the Petitioners remain, etc.—[Presented by Nicky The Government have responded to views from local Morgan, Official Report, 18 July 2011; Vol. 531, authorities and provided them with greater flexibility in c. 762-63.] how they spend their money. Funding for children’s [P000945] centres is no longer ring-fenced and it is for local authorities to decide how to run their services; they Observations from the Secretary of State for Communities need to make judgments based on local needs and what and Local Government, received 18 August 2011: works best. In tough economic times, however, it is The Secretary of State for Communities and Local crucial that local authorities listen to what local communities Government observes that a licensing system is already need and want. in place for mobile home sites under the Caravan Sites Local authorities remain responsible for ensuring and Control of Development Act 1960. He plans to that there is sufficient high-quality early education and consult shortly on reforms to the current regime with a childcare across the whole of their community. The view to making it more effective in protecting the health, Government are committed to high-quality childcare safety and welfare of residents. However, the Secretary and have increased the free childcare offer for 3 and of State is not convinced that a requirement that all site 4-year-olds to 15 hours. The evidence is clear about the owners are fit and proper is necessary or would be impact quality has on outcomes for children. Local effective in delivering protection to residents. He is authorities have duties under the Childcare Act 2006 to concerned that such a requirement would place an consult before opening, closing or significantly changing undue bureaucratic and costly burden on local authorities children’s centres and, as far as is reasonably practicable, and the many good site owners who manage their sites to secure sufficient children’s centres provision to meet professionally and lawfully.The proposed licensing reforms, local need. It is vital that any changes are based on on which he plans to consult, will enable local authorities proper consultation with local parents and communities. to target those owners who mismanage their sites and However, it is for local authorities through that process pay scant regard to the law. to determine the exact nature of that provision. 1W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 2W

We estimate that 71% of costs by volume may now be paid Written Answers to direct. MPs may make representations about other costs not covered by the Expenses Scheme and we will consider such representations Questions as part of the next Annual Review of the Scheme.

Monday 5 September 2011 LEADER OF THE HOUSE

INDEPENDENT PARLIAMENTARY Departmental Consultants STANDARDS AUTHORITY COMMITTEE Austin Mitchell: To ask the Leader of the House how Members: Allowances many senior civil servants in his Office at each grade had worked for PricewaterhouseCoopers, Ernst & Young, Deloitte or KPMG immediately prior to taking Adam Afriyie: To ask the hon. Member for up their appointment in each of the last four years; Broxbourne, representing the Speaker’s Committee for what consultancy agreements his Office had with those the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority, firms in each such year; and how many consultants pursuant to the answer of 4 July 2011, Official Report, from those firms have advised his Office in each such columns 958-59W, on Members: allowances, whether year. [68961] the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority intends to make an assessment of the effects of its Sir George Young: None. schemes on the mental health and well-being of hon. Members. [64901] Departmental Correspondence Mr Charles Walker: The information requested falls within the responsibility of the Independent Parliamentary Austin Mitchell: To ask the Leader of the House how Standards Authority. I have asked IPSA to reply. many letters he received from hon. Members in June Letter from Andrew McDonald, dated 13 July 2011: 2011. [68768] As Chief Executive of the Independent Parliamentary Standards Sir George Young: I received 17 letters from hon. Authority, I have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question asking whether we intend to make an assessment of the Members during June 2011. effect of our Schemes on the mental health of MPs. We have not received evidence or representations that there is a Departmental Official Hospitality need for such an assessment. Paul Blomfield: To ask the Leader of the House how Adam Afriyie: To ask the hon. Member for Broxbourne, much his Office has spent on hospitality for staff since representing the Speaker’s Committee for the Independent May 2010. [67984] Parliamentary Standards Authority, pursuant to the answer of 4 July 2011, Official Report, column 957W, Sir George Young: My Office has incurred no public on Members: allowances, whether the Independent expenditure on hospitality events for staff since May Parliamentary Standards Authority intends to make an 2010. assessment of the extent to which hon. Members are funding their parliamentary duties from personal resources. Departmental Publicity [64902] Paul Blomfield: To ask the Leader of the House how Mr Charles Walker: The information requested falls much his Office has spent on Ministerial photoshoots within the responsibility of the Independent Parliamentary and videos since May 2010. [67985] Standards Authority. I have asked IPSA to reply. Letter from Andrew McDonald, dated 13 July 2011: Sir George Young: My Office has incurred no cost on As Chief Executive of the Independent Parliamentary Standards ministerial photoshoots or videos since May 2010. Authority, I have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question asking whether we intend to make an assessment of the Departmental Redundancy extent to which MPs are funding parliamentary duties from personal resources. Paul Blomfield: To ask the Leader of the House how There is no requirement for any MP to use his or her personal resources to pay for costs allowable under the MPs’ Expenses much his Office has spent on redundancy costs since Scheme. We have introduced several mechanisms to ease any May 2010. [67987] potential cashflow problems for MPs including: an interest-free loan of up to £4,000; Sir George Young: The Office of the Leader of the the use of a payment card for a number of types of expenses; House of Commons is part of the Cabinet Office. and I refer the hon. Gentleman to the answer given by the payment on invoice and direct payments for rent and pooled Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General, research services. my right hon. Friend the Member for Horsham Where an MP necessarily incurs a cost related to their parliamentary (Mr Maude), on 18 July 2011, Official Report, functions which is not covered by the MPs’ Expenses Scheme, column 667W, to my right hon. Friend the Member for they may also apply to the contingency fund. Wokingham (Mr Redwood). 3W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 4W

Departmental Training My travel arrangements are in accordance with the arrangements for official travel set out in chapter 10 of Paul Blomfield: To ask the Leader of the House how the Ministerial Code. much his Office has spent on training for Ministers since May 2010; and what the training was for. [67986] Departmental Correspondence

Sir George Young: The Parliamentary Secretary, Office Austin Mitchell: To ask the Prime Minister how of the Leader of the House of Commons, the hon. many letters his Office received from hon. Members in Member for Somerton and Frome (Mr Heath), attended June 2011. [68763] an Induction Training session for new Ministers provided by the National School of Government. Since May 2010, training for Ministers has been centrally-funded The Prime Minister: My office received over 350 by the Core Learning Programme. letters from hon. Members in June 2011, including those forwarding constituents’ questions. Members: Pensions Departmental Responsibilities Mark Pritchard: To ask the Leader of the House if he will publish a list of the meetings he has held with representatives of each political party represented in Chris Ruane: To ask the Prime Minister on how the House of Commons on proposed changes to the many occasions a request for a meeting by an hon. pensions of hon. Members in (a) 2010 and (b) 2011. Member of each political party was refused by (a) the Prime Minister directly and (b) officials on behalf of [68062] the Prime Minister in November 2010. [67596] Sir George Young: I have regular meetings with hon. and right hon. Members on this and other issues. The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave on 20 July 2011, Official Report, column Third Sector 1087W.

Paul Blomfield: To ask the Leader of the House what Luciana Berger: To ask the Prime Minister what (a) charities and (b) voluntary organisations he has meetings he has had with (a) social workers, (b) visited in an official capacity since 12 May 2010. [67988] teachers, (c) nurses, (d) doctors, (e) police officers and (f) business leaders since May 2010. [68148] Sir George Young: In my role as Leader of the House I attended and spoke at an event in support of the work Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Prime Minister what of the Speakers’ Corner Trust in October 2010. As a meetings he has had with (a) social workers, (b) part of my ongoing commitment to tackling homelessness teachers, (c) nurses, (d) doctors, (e) police officers I also spoke at an event organised by the Rough Sleepers and (f) business leaders since May 2010. [68300] Initiative in March 2011. I also attend regular events in support of charities The Prime Minister: I regularly meet social workers, and voluntary organisations in my role as a constituency teachers, nurses, doctors, police officers and business Member of Parliament. leaders, including on visits around the country, and at receptions and meetings hosted at Number 10. For further information I refer the hon. Members to the PRIME MINISTER Number 10 website, which often gives further information about my visits, to the lists of meetings with external Cabinet: Chequers organisations which is published at least quarterly, and the list of receptions hosted at Number 10. These are Jon Ashworth: To ask the Prime Minister how many available on the Cabinet Office website: political cabinet meetings have taken place at Chequers http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/resource-library/ministerial- since May 2010. [68091] gifts-hospitality-travel-and-meetings-external-organisations

The Prime Minister: Two Cabinets have met at Chequers Human Rights: China covering both Government and political business. Departmental Air Travel Jim Shannon: To ask the Prime Minister what recent discussions he has had with the Chinese Delegation to John Mann: To ask the Prime Minister on what the UK on the issue of (a) religious discrimination and occasions he has flown on official business (a) by (b) human rights. [68521] budget airline and (b) in economy class in the last 12 months. [67907] The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Member to the answer 1 gave during the press conference with Chinese The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Member to the Premier Wen Jiabao on 27 June 2011. A transcript of details of my overseas travel which is published at least the press conference is available on the Number 10 quarterly on the Cabinet Office website: website: http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/resource-library/ministerial- http://www.number10.gov.uk/news/speeches-and-transcripts/ gifts-hospitality-travel-and-meetings-external-organisations 2011/06/press-conference-with-premier-wen-jiabao-65285 5W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 6W

Malaysia: Elections In addition my Office is undertaking volunteering activity with two social action partners during 2011: Blue Sky Development and Regeneration and Street Emma Reynolds: To ask the Prime Minister what League. For further details I refer the hon. Members to discussions he had with the Prime Minister of Malaysia the press notice on the No. 10 website on electoral reform and the right to demonstrate in that country. [67444] http://www.number10.gov.uk/news/latest-news/2010/12/ number-10-staff-select-two-charities-to-support-in-2011- 58400 The Prime Minister: During the Prime Minister of Malaysia’s visit to the United Kingdom we agreed on the importance of building more open and inclusive societies and supporting democracy over repression. DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER Departmental Lost Property National Security Council Mr MacNeil: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister what property has been (a) lost and (b) stolen from Steve Rotheram: To ask the Prime Minister (1) how his office in the last 12 months; and what the cost of many meetings he has had with the National Security replacement was. [66580] Adviser since the creation of the National Security Council; [67411] The Deputy Prime Minister: My office is an integral (2) what role and responsibilities he has in relation to part of the Cabinet Office. I refer the hon. Member to the National Security Council; and what recent the answer today given by the Minister for the Cabinet contribution he has made to its work. [67413] Office and Paymaster General, the right hon. Member for Horsham (Mr Maude). The Prime Minister: I chair the National Security Council which meets regularly, in some cases several Departmental Responsibilities times a week. The National Security Adviser is Secretary to the National Security Council and I therefore meet Chris Ruane: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister if he him on a regular basis, in addition to other meetings. will consider keeping data on the number of times he has declined a request for a meeting from an hon. Member of each political party. [67192] Taxation: European Union The Deputy Prime Minister: Pressures on my diary regrettably mean that I am not able to accept all requests Priti Patel: To ask the Prime Minister whether any for meetings. My office is not required to hold details of proposal to introduce Europe-wide taxation measures the number of meetings declined and there are no plans for the purposes of raising resources for the EU would to do so. be subject to a referendum. [69101] National Security Council Justine Greening: I have been asked to reply. Section 7 of the European Union Act 2011 provides Steve Rotheram: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister that a decision to use Article 311 TFEU to adopt a how many meetings he has had with the National system of Own Resources would require approval through Security Adviser since the creation of the National an Act of Parliament. Security Council. [67326] The Deputy Prime Minister: I am the Deputy Chair Third Sector of the National Security Council which meets regularly, in some cases several times a week. The National Security Adviser is Secretary to the National Security Council Valerie Vaz: To ask the Prime Minister what the and I therefore meet him on a regular basis, as well as in name is of each charity and voluntary organisation he the course of my wider responsibilities. has visited since 12 May 2010. [67532]

Tony Lloyd: To ask the Prime Minister what the name is of each charity and voluntary organisation he COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT has visited since 12 May 2010. [67667] Surplus Homes

The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Members to my 19. Greg Hands: To ask the Secretary of State for list of UK visits and the list of official and charity Communities and Local Government what steps his receptions held at 10 Downing street which have been Department is taking to put into productive use empty published on the Cabinet Office website and surplus property. [69940] http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/resource-library/ministerial- gifts-hospitality-travel-and-meetings-external-organisations Robert Neill: We have recently consulted on proposals These include visits to Combat Stress and events held at to make it easier to change use from commercial to 10 Downing street for charities including the British residential and will make an announcement on the way Red Cross and Great Ormond Street. forward soon. 7W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 8W

We have already put in place powerful tools and Carbon Emissions incentives to support local communities to tackle empty homes and underused land and property. Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government pursuant to the 20. Gordon Henderson: To ask the Secretary of State answer of 5 July 2011, Official Report, column 1143W, for Communities and Local Government whether his whether the sources of low-carbon energy generation to Department has considered taking steps to ensure be used by his Department as a means of reducing its better use of surplus holiday homes. [69941] carbon dioxide emissions are to be manufactured in the UK. [67936] Andrew Stunell: I know my hon. Friend sees surplus holiday homes as a potential source of affordable housing. Robert Neill: The Department does not hold information on whether the sources of low-carbon energy generation Government reforms give high priority to housing to be used by the Department will be manufactured in supply, and the draft National Planning Policy Framework the UK. Future energy generation contracts will be let urges authorities to recognise the benefits of housing by Cabinet Office on behalf of central Government as growth. part of their Common Commodities Programme. We will not, though, insist that permission should Departmental Apprentices always be granted for using or redeveloping of holiday homes as permanent dwellings. Mr Denham: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government whether his Green Belt Department has a policy on requirements for the provision of (a) apprenticeships and (b) other training by (i) his 21. Mr Raab: To ask the Secretary of State for Department’s prime contractors and (ii) suppliers in the Communities and Local Government what steps he is supply chain of such contractors. [66600] taking to protect the green belt. [69943] Robert Neill: The Department expects its suppliers Greg Clark: The draft National Planning Policy and supply chain partners to deploy capable staff on Framework is unequivocal in continuing the protection contracts servicing our needs. Our procurement processes of the green belt. include relevant checks on supplier capability. It is for suppliers themselves to decide their training and By abolishing the previous Government’s Regional apprenticeship requirements. Spatial Strategies, through the Localism Bill, we are removing the top-down pressure on local authorities to Mr Denham: To ask the Secretary of State for remove the green belt in 30 areas across England. Communities and Local Government how many apprenticeships have been created directly by contracts Affordable Housing with his Department in each of the last three years. [66602]

Caroline Nokes: To ask the Secretary of State for Robert Neill: The Department does not hold this Communities and Local Government what assessment information. he has made of the effects of the increase in the rate of VAT on housing associations wishing to build Departmental Billing affordable homes. [68509] Gavin Williamson: To ask the Secretary of State for Andrew Stunell: We have made no detailed assessment Communities and Local Government what late of the effect of the VAT increase on housing associations. payments to contractors his Department has made These are organisations independent of Government between June 2007 and May 2010; and what the total who react individually to changes in market conditions. cost to the public purse was of any (a) penalty charges or (b) interest charges incurred in that period. [68394] However, I can confirm that, housing associations’ responses to the new Affordable Homes Programme, Robert Neill: The following table gives details of the have allowed us to exceed our predictions—we now total number of payments made by the Department expect to provide up to 170,000 new affordable homes and the number of payments paid late after 30 days. We between 2011 and 2015, compared with our original do not have any record of paying penalty charges or estimate of 150,000. interest charges for any of these late payments.

Total payments Late payments Percentage late

June 2007 3,768 203 5.39 July 2007 3,746 245 6.54 August 2007 3,525 322 9.13 September 2007 3,300 252 7.64 October 2007 3,365 278 8.26 November 2007 3,797 473 12.46 December 2007 2,275 234 10.29 January 2008 2,785 658 23.63 February 2008 2,837 593 20.9 9W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 10W

Total payments Late payments Percentage late

March 2008 3,599 585 16.25 April 2008 3,587 329 9.17 May 2008 3,147 556 17.67 June 2008 3,119 396 12.7 July 2008 3,250 287 8.83 August 2008 2,939 29 0.99 September 2008 2,941 376 12.78 October 2008 3,767 464 12.32 November 2008 3,323 258 7.76 December 2008 2,939 110 3.74 January 2009 3,037 110 3.62 February 2009 2,770 129 4.66 March 2009 4,233 197 4.65 April 2009 3,555 246 6.92 May 2009 2,645 91 3.44 June 2009 3,056 72 2.36 July 2009 3,328 63 1.89 August 2009 2,941 101 3.43 September 2009 2,572 80 3.11 October 2009 2,946 50 1.7 November 2009 2,709 85 3.14 December 2009 2,364 101 4.27 January 2010 2,619 189 7.22 February 2010 2,741 206 7.52 March 2010 3,732 161 4.31 April 2010 2,674 146 5.46 May 2010 2,196 88 4.01

Departmental Correspondence Robert Neill: We have interpreted entertainment to mean attendance at spectator type events such as concerts Austin Mitchell: To ask the Secretary of State for or sports. Departmental records show no such expenditure Communities and Local Government how many letters since 2007-08. his Department received from hon. Members in June Ian Mearns: To ask the Secretary of State for 2011. [68762] Communities and Local Government how much his Department has spent on hospitality for staff since Robert Neill: The Department for Communities and May 2010. [67812] Local Government received 984 letters from hon. Members in June 2011. Robert Neill [holding answer 19 July 2011]: Staff hospitality is defined as the provision of food and drink for meetings. I refer the hon. Member to my answer of Departmental Official Cars 1 February 2011, Official Report, column 745W, which outlined spending from May to December 2010. From January to June 2011, provisional records estimate that Gavin Williamson: To ask the Secretary of State for £21,262 was spent. Communities and Local Government what the cost to the public purse was of (a) cars leased by his Department This compares with a comparable spend of £456,142 to staff and (b) ministerial chauffeurs between June in 2009-10 under the last Administration. There has thus been a considerable reduction in spending as a 2007 and May 2010. [68382] consequence of cost-saving initiatives introduced under the new Government. Robert Neill: The Department does not lease any cars to staff. Departmental Pay I refer my hon. Friend to my reply to the hon. Member for Bristol West (Stephen Williams) of 18 July Charlie Elphicke: To ask the Secretary of State for 2011, Official Report, columns 608-69W. Communities and Local Government what the estimated saving to the public purse was from lower staff wage costs arising from industrial action by staff of his Departmental Official Hospitality Department on 30 June 2011. [68899] Robert Neill: The total amount which will not be paid Gavin Williamson: To ask the Secretary of State for as salary to members of the Department for Communities Communities and Local Government how much his and Local Government staff who participated in industrial Department has spent on entertaining in each financial action on 30 June 2011 is £22,136, excluding employers year since 2007-08. [67733] national insurance and pension contributions. 11W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 12W

Departmental Photographs Departmental Training

Ian Mearns: To ask the Secretary of State for Gavin Williamson: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government how much his Communities and Local Government what the (a) Department has spent on photo shoots and videos date, (b) location, (c) number of attendees and (d) involving Ministers since May 2010. [67431] cost to the public purse was for each (i) away day and (ii) team building activity organised for staff in his Robert Neill [holding answer 19 July 2011]: No ministerial Department between June 2007 and May 2010. [68334] photography has been purchased using taxpayers’ money since May 2010. This compares with £2,648 of taxpayers’ Robert Neill: This information is not held centrally money spent on ministerial photography from April and could be provided only at disproportionate cost. 2006 to April 2010. Any videos featuring Ministers since May 2010 have Enterprise Zones been produced in-house. Therefore any expenditure incurred would have been part of overall running and salary Mr Wallace: To ask the Secretary of State for costs, and no external costs have been incurred. By Communities and Local Government when he expects contrast, I refer the hon. Member to my answer of to announce the next round of local enterprise zones. 27 April 2011, Official Report, column 455W, for an [68781] example of excessive spending on ministerial videos under the last Administration. Greg Clark: The closing date for the receipt of bids was 30 June 2011 and the successful bids were announced Departmental Procurement on 17 August 2011 and can be found at: http://www.communities.gov.uk/news/newsroom/1967595 Mr Denham: To ask the Secretary of State for A copy has also been placed in the Library of the Communities and Local Government what the annual House. value is of his Department’s current contracts in each sector in which contracts are held. [66601] Fire Services: Conditions of Employment

Robert Neill: This information is not held centrally Chris Williamson: To ask the Secretary of State for and could be obtained only at disproportionate cost. Communities and Local Government what assessment Information on the Department’s spending over £500, he has made of the effects on physical requirements of and the details of new Government contracts, can be firefighters of setting the retirement age at 60; and if he found online as part of the Government’s transparency will make a statement. [68924] initiative. Robert Neill: In 2002, under the last Administration, the Independent Review of the Fire Service found that Julian Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for the job of a firefighter does not carry any greater risk Communities and Local Government how many than many other occupations. In 2007, the New Firefighters’ procurement contracts his Department has awarded to Pension Scheme was introduced with a normal pension small businesses since May 2010. [67247] age of 60. In March 2011, Lord Hutton’s review into public sector pensions recommended that, in recognising Robert Neill: The Department keeps a register of all the unique nature of their work, Government should contracts with a value of over £20,000 and records show consider setting a new normal pension age of 60 across that since May 2010 21 contracts (31% of all such the uniformed services. contracts) were awarded to small businesses. The Government have accepted Lord Hutton’s recommendations as a basis for consultation with public Departmental Stationery sector workers, trades unions and others. Following the written ministerial statement on 19 July 2011, Official Gavin Williamson: To ask the Secretary of State for Report, columns 92-94WS, given by the Chief Secretary Communities and Local Government what the cost to to the Treasury, the right hon. Member for Inverness, the public purse was of stationery purchased by his Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey (Danny Alexander), Department between June 2007 and May 2010. [68388] scheme level discussions have begun to deliver initial proposals for reformed schemes by the end of October Robert Neill: The Department has spent the following 2011. Lord Hutton’s recommendations will also inform on stationery with its preferred supplier over this period. these scheme level discussions, which will include The Department does not hold a breakdown of figures consideration of the normal pension age for firefighters. for 2007-08 so the following figure represents full year spend. Fire Services: Expenditure

£ Chris Williamson: To ask the Secretary of State for 2007-08 438,473 Communities and Local Government what the cost to 2008-09 501,255 the public purse was of each control centre constructed 2009-10 442,660 under the FiReControl project in the last six months; 2010 (April and May) 56,585 and what estimate he has made of the cost of each centre in the next 12 months. [63801] 13W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 14W

Robert Neill: For the current running costs of all the This Government took decisive action and closed control centres, I refer the hon. Member to the answer down the costly FiReControl project when it became given to the hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington clear that it could not be delivered to an acceptable (John McDonnell) on 13 July 2011, Official Report, timeframe. I refer the hon. Member to the National columns 362-63W.In that response I highlight the National Audit Office report of 1 July 2011, HC 1272, on “The Audit Office report of 1 July 2011, HC 1272, on “The Failure of the FiReControl project” and the written Failure of the FiReControl project”. ministerial statement on the future of fire and rescue The National Audit Office report states on the empty control services made to the House on 5 July 2011, buildings: ″The Department’s failure to manage the Official Report, columns 82-83WS. project as a whole has resulted in the creation of empty regional control centres. The nine regional control centres Fire Services: Manpower were purpose-built to house the new computerised equipment and were designed specifically for that purpose. Chris Williamson: To ask the Secretary of State for The Department’s decision to prioritise the procurement Communities and Local Government what estimate he of the centres over the IT system at an early stage meant has made of the number of front-line jobs in fire that the first centres were completed in June 2007, just services which are expected to be lost in addition to three months after the IT contract had been awarded″ those already announced. [68922] (p.8). The total running costs incurred at each control Robert Neill: The Department has not made such an centre building for the last six months (December 2010 estimate. It is for individual fire and rescue authorities to May 2011) and the most recent estimate of running to determine appropriate levels of emergency cover, costs (including rent, facilities management, utilities, taking account of analysis of risk locally, as part of rates, etc.) for the following 12 months (June 2011 to integrated risk management planning. May 2012) are shown in the following table. I also refer the hon. Member to my letter to him of 6 December 2010, a copy of which is available in the £ Library of the House, which outlines how fire and Estimated running rescue authorities can make sensible savings without Control centre Cost incurred in last cost in the next impacting on the quality or breadth of services offered building six months1 12 months1 to their communities. London 1,573,475 2,841,488 South East 997,259 1,970,399 Fire Services: Pensions South West 902,321 1,749,403 East of England 974,602 1,869,992 Mr Iain Wright: To ask the Secretary of State for East Midlands 915,828 1,734,402 Communities and Local Government (1) what the (a) West Midlands 969,981 1,902,885 assets and (b) long-term liabilities are of the (i) Yorkshire and 890,915 1,748,701 Firefighters’ Pension Scheme and (ii) New Firefighters’ Pension Scheme; [68495] North East 879,971 1,711,769 (2) what his policy is on firefighters paying a greater North West 894,026 1,694,900 contribution to their pension scheme. [68496] 1A11 costs exclude VAT. The hon. Member will note that the estimated running Robert Neill: As unfunded schemes, neither the cost for the London control centre over the next 12 Firefighters’ Pension Scheme 1992, nor the New months is reduced compared to the current monthly Firefighters’ Pension Scheme 2006, have any assets. The cost given in the answer to the hon. Member for Hayes 2007 actuarial valuation of the two fire pension schemes and Harlington. This is because the London Fire Brigade found that the total liability for all accrued benefits was expects to move into the building at the end of this year £13.8 billion as at 31 March 2007. Of this, current and will take over the running costs except for the rent members of the Firefighters Pension Scheme 1992 during this period. The Department has also taken accounted for £6.4 billion and pensions in payment for steps to reduce facilities management costs by 25 per former members accounted for £6.9 billion. The remainder cent through renegotiating the contract and utilities applied to members with deferred benefits, pensions in costs by 35 per cent through reduced usage in all the payment for dependents. The actuarial liability of the buildings. New Firefighters’ Pension Scheme 2006 was valued at £0.0 billion in 2007. Our aim is to achieve the best possible value for money for the taxpayer from these buildings. Our preference The Department will shortly be issuing statutory is for fire and rescue services to use the centres, as they consultation proposals setting out the Department’s are highly resilient and built for this purpose. We have approach to increased employee contribution increases already reached agreement with the London Fire and with effect from April 2012. Emergency Planning Authority to take over the control centre in Merton. The London Fire Brigade intends to Gifts and Endowments move in later this year and will take over the running costs at that point. Those fire and rescue services hoping Andrew Griffiths: To ask the Secretary of State for to move into the buildings are not expected to begin Communities and Local Government pursuant to the contributing to the rent during the period in question. answer of 9 June 2011, Official Report, column 449W, Where we cannot reach agreement for fire and rescue on gifts and endowments, (a) what the name is of each services to move in, we are actively seeking suitable Minister who received each gift, (b) who donated each tenants for them. This will further reduce costs. gift and (c) what wines and spirits were received. [61034] 15W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 16W

Robert Neill: Based on the records available, information Charlie Elphicke: To ask the Secretary of State for on gifts valued below £140 recorded by the Department Communities and Local Government what the (a) date as having been received in 2009-10 is as follows. Where of purchase, (b) amount, (c) supplier and (d) level 3 recorded, this also includes details of donors. or enhanced transaction entry was of each transaction John Denham undertaken by the West Northamptonshire Development Mug from Cockermouth Mountain Rescue Team Corporation using the Government Procurement Card in (i) 2007-08, (ii) 2008-09 and (iii) 2009-10. [68898] Red wine from ambassador of Qatar (retained by the Department for use at official functions) Andrew Stunell: No such transactions have taken Sadiq Khan place as West Northamptonshire Development Corporation Decorative plaques received on ministerial visit to Pakistan does not use the Government Procurement Card. and Saudi Arabia Shahid Malik Homelessness: Expenditure Calendar Fine Bone China Plate Alison Seabeck: To ask the Secretary of State for Framed Photograph Communities and Local Government pursuant to the Lacquerware box answer of 4 July 2011, Official Report, column 1000W, Photo Frame on homelessness: social rented housing, how much and Stationery what proportion of the figure given in the answer for Wooden Plate local authority prevention or relief activities in 2009-10 related to activities under section 192(3) of the Rosie Winterton Housing Act 1996. [67661] Book from Azerbaijan Delegation Cognac from Azerbaijan Delegation Grant Shapps: The figures provided in the previous Food hamper from Regional Food Group for Yorkshire and answer related to all prevention and relief activities. It is Humber not possible to break down the number of those activities Replica Miner’s Lamp given on a visit to the National Coal that were carried out under section 192(3) of the Housing Mining Museum for England* Act 1996 from the data the Department holds. Trinket box.* The list includes two additional items (marked with Homelessness: Liverpool an asterisk) to the list given in my answer of 9 June 2011, Official Report, column 449W, which were Steve Rotheram: To ask the Secretary of State for subsequently identified in a further search of departmental Communities and Local Government if he will records. estimate the likely number of homeless people in Liverpool, Walton constituency in (a) 2012, (b) 2013 Government Procurement Card and (c) 2014. [67728]

Charlie Elphicke: To ask the Secretary of State for Grant Shapps: This Department has not made forecasts Communities and Local Government what the (a) date for future levels of homelessness. of purchase, (b) amount, (c) supplier and (d) level 3 Information about local authorities’ discharge of their or enhanced transaction entry was of each transaction duties under homelessness legislation is collected on undertaken by the Housing Ombudsman using the quarterly PIE returns. Summary information about English Government Procurement Card in (i) 2007-08, (ii) 2008-09 local housing authorities’ actions under the homelessness and (iii) 2009-10. [68895] legislation (part 7 of the Housing Act 1996) is collected at local authority level, and published by the Department Robert Neill: No such transactions have taken place in the quarterly Statistical Release on Statutory as the Independent Housing Ombudsman Ltd does not Homelessness, available both in the Library of the use the Government Procurement Card. House and via the DCLG website: http://www.communities.gov.uk/housing/housingresearch/ Charlie Elphicke: To ask the Secretary of State for housingstatistics/housingstatisticsby/homelessnessstatistics/ Communities and Local Government what the (a) date publicationshomelessness/ of purchase, (b) amount, (c) supplier and (d) level 3 Figures are provided at local authority level in the or enhanced transaction entry was of each transaction table at the following link: undertaken by the Thurrock Gateway Development http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/housing/xls/ Corporation using the Government Procurement Card 1918724.xls in (i) 2007-08, (ii) 2008-09 and (iii) 2009-10. [68897] Figures are not collected at constituency level. Robert Neill: A table providing a breakdown of Figures are also collected on rough sleeping. The expenditure by the Thurrock Thames Gateway Government have introduced a new more accurate way Development Corporation using Government Procurement of evaluating rough sleeping levels in England. Previously Cards for 2007-08, 2008-09 and 2009-10 has been placed only local authorities where there was a known, or in the Library of the House. This includes (a) date of suspected, rough sleeping problem were required to purchase, (b) amount and (c) supplier. We do not hold provide a count. All areas across England now provide details of (d) level 3 or enhanced transactions. Each counts or robust estimates giving a clear national picture. transaction does have an expenditure type which is a Latest statistics show 1,768 rough sleepers in England broad description of the type of goods purchased. on any one night in autumn 2010. 17W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 18W

Rough sleeping figures are published by the Department anti-competitively hoard land or own a large amount of on the DCLG website and are given by local authority land with planning permission on which they have not in the table 2 at the following link: started to build.” http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/statistics/xls/ The Minister for Housing and Local Government, 1845849.xls my right hon. Friend the Member for Welwyn Hatfield Figures are not collected at constituency level. (Grant Shapps), announced on 8 June that the Government This Government are committed to tackling rough are planning to release enough public land to build as sleeping and preventing homelessness. We have maintained many as 100,000 new homes by 2015. By this autumn the level of Homelessness Grant, with £400 million for Government Departments with significant land holdings local authorities and the voluntary sector over the next will publish plans to release land to housebuilders. four years. A cross-departmental ministerial working Ministers’ meetings with external organisations are group has been set up to address the complex causes of published on my Department’s website. Ministers discuss homelessness and improve support for homeless people. a wide range of issues.

Homelessness: Young People Local Government Finance

Toby Perkins: To ask the Secretary of State for Michael Dugher: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government how many young Communities and Local Government what consideration people aged between 16 and 18 became homeless in he has given to the funding of (a) fire and police each of the last five years; and what proportion of services and (b) other risk-based services within his proposed changes to local government funding. [68052] these young people were care leavers. [68228]

Grant Shapps: Information about local authorities’ Robert Neill: The Government published ‘Local discharge of their duties under homelessness legislation Government Resource Review: Proposals for Business is collected on quarterly PIE returns. Summary information Rate Retention’ on 18 July 2011 for consultation. This about English local housing authorities’ actions under contains proposals for the future funding of non-billing the homelessness legislation (part 7 of the Housing Act authorities, including fire and police authorities. A technical 1996) is collected at local authority level, and published paper which set out further details for non-billing authorities by the Department in the quarterly Statistical Release was published in August. on Statutory Homelessness, available both in the Library Local Government: Manpower of the House and via the DCLG website: http://www.communities.gov.uk/housing/housingresearch/ housingstatistics/housingstatisticsby/homelessnessstatistics/ Andrew Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for publicationshomelessness/ Communities and Local Government how many staff Information is collected on the age of households were employed by local authorities in England in (a) accepted as being homeless but the age bands are ’16-24’, 2008-09, (b) 2009-10 and (c) 2010-11. [69162] ’25-44’, ‘45-59’, ’60-64’, ’65-74’ and ’75 and over’. Figures are published in table 11 of the release, found at the Robert Neill: The Department does not hold records following link: of the number of people employed by local authorities. The Office for National Statistics publishes local government http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/statistics/xls/ employment statistics and these show that staff headcount 1918669.xls employed by local authorities in England were: Information is not collected on whether members of (a) 2008-09 (Quarter 2, 2008) was 2,436,000 households accepted as homeless were formally in care. (b) 2009-10 (Quarter 2, 2009) was 2,431,000 Breakdowns are not available for other types of homelessness, eg rough sleeping. Figures for 2010-11 have not yet been published. This Government are committed to tackling rough Non-domestic Rates sleeping and preventing homelessness. We have maintained the level of Homelessness Grant, with £400 million for Nic Dakin: To ask the Secretary of State for local authorities and the voluntary sector over the next Communities and Local Government which local four years. A cross-departmental Ministerial Working authorities have granted hardship relief to local Group has been set up to address the complex causes of businesses in the last four years; and for how long a homelessness and improve support for homeless people. period in each case. [67693]

Land Use Robert Neill [holding answer 19 July 2011]: The following list gives details of those local authorities in Graeme Morrice: To ask the Secretary of State for England that reported they granted hardship relief in Communities and Local Government what recent the period 2006-07 to 2009-10: discussions he has had with (a) representatives of the Ashford house building industry and (b) the Office of Fair Aylesbury Vale Trading on the practice of land banking by private Babergh housing developers. [69191] Barking and Dagenham Andrew Stunell: The Office of Fair Trading market Barnsley study, Homebuilding in the UK (2008) did not find Basingstoke and Deane “any evidence that housebuilders have the ability to Bassetlaw 19W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 20W

Bedford1 Hackney Bedford UA2 Hambleton Berwick-upon-Tweed1 Harborough Birmingham Harrogate Blyth Valley1 Hastings Bolsover High Peak Bolton Hillingdon Boston Hinckley and Bosworth Bradford Horsham Breckland Hounslow Brent Huntingdonshire Bridgnorth1 Ipswich Brighton and Hove Kennet1 Bristol Kensington and Chelsea Broadland Kerrier1 Broxbourne Kings Lynn and West Norfolk Bury Kirklees Camden Knowsley Cannock Chase Leeds Canterbury Leicester UA Caradon1 Lewes Carlisle Lewisham Castle Morpeth1 Liverpool Central Bedfordshire UA2 Luton UA Charnwood Macclesfield1 Cheltenham Manchester East UA2 Mansfield Chester1 Medway UA Christchurch Mendip City of London Mid Bedfordshire1 Copeland Mid Cornwall UA2 Mid Sussex Crewe and Nantwich1 Middlesbrough UA Dacorum Milton Keynes UA Daventry Newark and Sherwood Derby UA Newcastle upon Tyne Derwentside1 North Cornwall1 Dover North Dorset Durham City1 North East Derbyshire Durham UA2 North East Lincolnshire UA Easington1 North Lincolnshire UA East Cambridgeshire North Tyneside East Devon North Warwickshire East Hampshire Northumberland UA2 East Lindsey Norwich East Riding of Yorkshire UA Oldham East Staffordshire Plymouth UA Eastbourne Preston Eastleigh Purbeck Ellesmere Port and Neston1 Redcar and Cleveland UA Exeter Restormel1 Fenland Richmondshire Forest Heath Rother Forest of Dean Rotherham Fylde Rushcliffe Gedling Rushmoor Gloucester Ryedale Greenwich Salford Guildford Salisbury1 21W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 22W

Sandwell Windsor and Maidenhead UA Scarborough Wirral Sedgemoor Woking Selby Wokingham UA Sevenoaks Wolverhampton Sheffield Worcester Shepway Wychavon 1 Shrewsbury and Atcham Wycombe 2 Shropshire UA Wyre Forest. Slough UA 1 These authorities were in existence in 2006-07 to 2008-09 only South Bedfordshire1 and ceased to exist from 1 April 2009 due to local government South Cambridgeshire reorganisation. South Derbyshire 2 These are unitary authorities that came into existence on 1 April South Gloucestershire UA 2009. South Holland The figures used to produce this list are taken from South Lakeland the annual audited national non-domestic rates (NNDR3) returns submitted by all billing authorities in England South Norfolk and are net i.e. they are the amount of hardship relief South Northamptonshire granted both in respect of the current year and/or South Oxfordshire previous years less any repayment of hardship relief South Ribble incorrectly made in respect of previous years. South Somerset Under our plans for local retention of business rates, South Staffordshire rate relief will continue to be supported, meaning no Southwark adverse change to such groups as charities, amateur St Albans sports clubs, voluntary groups, those in hardship, and St Edmundsbury eligible rural or small firms. Stafford Stevenage Gavin Barwell: To ask the Secretary of State for Stoke-on-Trent UA Communities and Local Government how much was due to be collected in uniform business rates in each Stratford-on-Avon billing authority area in (a) 2006-07 and (b) 2010-11. Stroud [68465] Suffolk Coastal Sutton Robert Neill: Details of the amount of national non- Tameside domestic rates that was due to be collected in each Tamworth billing authority area in England in 2006-07 and 2010-11 Tandridge are published in statistical releases on the Department Teignbridge for Communities and Local Government website at Tendring http://www.communities.gov.uk/localgovernment/ Test Valley localregional/localgovernmentfinance/statistics/counciltax/ collectionrates/ Tewkesbury Thanet Data for 2006-07 can be found in column 0 of table 4 of the statistics release “Collection rates for council tax Torridge and non-domestic rates in England 2006-07” and data Tower Hamlets for 2010-11 can be found in column 0 of table 7 of the Tynedale1 statistics release “Collection rates for council tax and Vale Royal1 non-domestic rates in England 2010-11”. Wandsworth The data are taken from the Quarterly Return of Warrington UA Council tax and Non-domestic rates (QRC4) forms that Waveney are returned annually by all billing authorities in England. Wealden West Berkshire UA Non-domestic Rates: Empty Property West Devon West Dorset Mr Brine: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities West Lindsey and Local Government what assessment he has made of West Somerset the impact on speculative property development of the West Wiltshire1 decision to reduce the empty property rates threshold for commercial properties. [68169] Westminster Weymouth and Portland Robert Neill: I refer my hon. Friend to the answer I Wigan gave on 8 February 2011, Official Report, column 178W, Wiltshire UA2 to my hon. Friend the Member for Newark (Patrick Winchester Mercer). 23W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 24W

Overcrowding and through the commitment to look again at the rules on real estate investment trusts in time for next year’s Richard Fuller: To ask the Secretary of State for Budget. Communities and Local Government whether he has The Government are decentralising power from central any plans to revise the definition of overcrowding for Government and unelected regional government to elected the purposes of the Housing Act 1985. [64019] local government. The New Homes Bonus will reward councils for the construction of additional housing, Andrew Stunell: The reforms to social housing allocations, and the abolition of Whitehall density targets will allow homelessness and tenure which are being taken forward councils to plan for more family homes. in the Localism Bill will make it much easier for social Private Rented Housing: Standards landlords to manage their stock to reduce overcrowding. We have no plans currently to change the statutory overcrowding standard. Graeme Morrice: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what assessment We will consult on new statutory allocations guidance he has made of the quality of accommodation in the later this year. private rented sector; and if he will make a statement. Planning [69942] Andrew Stunell: The most recent report on English Maria Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for Housing Survey, which is commissioned by my Department, Communities and Local Government what standards shows continuing improvement in the condition of the will be applied to (a) transport statements, (b) private rented sector. At a time when the sector is transport assessments and (c) travel plans under draft growing, the proportion of non-decent properties has version 4 of the National Planning Policy Framework. reduced from 47% in 2006 to 41% in 2009. [67766] Regional Planning and Development Robert Neill: The National Planning Policy Framework consultation, which includes a draft impact assessment, Andrew Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for was launched on 25 July. Copies of all documents are in Communities and Local Government what account the Library of the House. housing allocations in local development frameworks will take of windfall developments. [68972] Planning Permission: Urban Areas Robert Neill: Current national policy on housing, set Pamela Nash: To ask the Secretary of State for out in Planning Policy Statement 3, is clear that allowances Communities and Local Government what steps his for windfall sites should not be included in the first 10 Department is taking to support high streets through years of housing supply unless the council can provide the planning system. [69932] robust evidence of genuine local circumstances that prevent planned sites from being identified. Greg Clark: Although it is a devolved matter for the Through the abolition of Regional Strategies via the hon. Member’s constituents, the Government are committed Localism Bill, local authorities will have greater local to supporting high streets through the ‘Town Centre discretion on the setting of their housing allocations. First’ policy which identifies town centres as the preferred location for retail developments. Social Rented Housing

Private Rented Housing Rushanara Ali: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government when he plans to John McDonnell: To ask the Secretary of State for issue guidelines to local authorities on the development Communities and Local Government what steps he has of local tenancy strategies. [68683] taken to develop (a) a national strategy and (b) regional strategies for access to affordable family housing in the Andrew Stunell: The Department has no plans to private rental sector; and if he will make a statement. issue formal guidance on tenancy strategies. [68036] The Chartered Institute of Housing has published guidance on preparing tenancy strategies, which can be Grant Shapps: The Government have been working found at: to encourage a thriving private rented sector which http://www.cih.org/practice/free-downloads/documents/ offers affordability and choice to those seeking a home. TenancyStrategies-June2011.pdf We have made it clear that local authorities should use their existing powers to stamp out the small minority of Social Rented Housing: Ex-servicemen poor practice in the sector by rogue landlords. However, regulation must be proportionate—excessive regulation David Wright: To ask the Secretary of State for on the whole of the private rented sector would harm Communities and Local Government what plans he tenants’ interests by reducing the choice of accommodation has to give greater priority to military veterans on and force up rents. waiting lists for social housing. [68632] We are taking active steps to encourage growth and investment in the private rented sector: through the Grant Shapps: The Government are committed to changes to stamp duty land tax on bulk purchases ensuring that existing and former members of the armed which the Government announced in the 2011 Budget, forces are not disadvantaged in their access to social 25W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 26W housing. Current social housing allocations guidance go back beyond April 2000. The data in the table are already advises local authorities to give ’additional therefore for nine months in 2000 and full years for the preference’ (high priority) to service personnel who remainder. have been seriously injured or disabled in action. An option we are considering is to change the law so that Number of appeals for temporary councils in England would be required to give ’additional permissions allowed preference’ for social housing to all former service personnel 2000 2 who have an urgent housing need. Any change to the 2001 0 law would follow a full public consultation. 2002 1 In addition, all low cost home ownership schemes, 2003 1 including FirstBuy, will now routinely place current 2004 0 and former members of the armed forces at the top of 2005 0 their priority lists. 2006 2 2007 1 Social Rented Housing: Peterborough 2008 2 2009 5 Mr Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State 2010 6 for Communities and Local Government how many individuals who were not British citizens were allocated Local planning authorities are responsible for monitoring social housing under the choice-based lettings system temporary permissions and the Planning Inspectorate by Peterborough city council in each year since 2001; does not hold data on removal of sites once temporary what proportion this represented of all such allocations permission expires. in each year; and if he will make a statement. [68312] The Government are currently revising planning policy on Traveller sites, to give local councils more discretion, Andrew Stunell: Information about social lettings is to increase protection for the green belt and open collected through the Continuous Recording of Lettings countryside, and to ensure fair play for all. and Sales (CORE). The question on nationality was first introduced in 2006-07. The following table provides the number and proportion of all choice-based lettings made to non-UK nationals SCOTLAND to properties situated within Peterborough city council’s boundary since 2006-07. Employment It is not possible to confirm whether all of these were allocated via Peterborough city council’s choice-based Ann McKechin: To ask the Secretary of State for lettings system. Scotland what discussions he has had with (a) the Choice-based lettings to non-UK nationals in Peterborough, 2006-07 Secretary of State for Work and Pensions and (b) to 2009-10 Scottish Ministers on (i) the rise in the number of Proportion of all choice- female jobseeker’s allowance claimants in July 2011 and Number of choice-based based lettings to non-UK (ii) other trends in July 2011’s labour market statistics lettings to non-UK nationals in Peterborough relating to Scotland; and if he will make a statement. nationals in Peterborough (percentage) [68198] 2006-07 177 15 2007-08 190 14 Michael Moore: I have regular discussions with the 2008-09 234 16 Secretary of State for Work and Pensions about the 2009-10 255 16 number of people in Scotland claiming jobseekers allowance Source: and trends in labour market statistics. When I met the CORE lettings data (general needs and supported housing) Cabinet Secretary for Employment, Finance and Sustainable Growth in July we discussed youth unemployment in Travellers: Planning Permission Scotland.

Gavin Williamson: To ask the Secretary of State for Phone Hacking Inquiry Communities and Local Government how many temporary permissions for Gypsy and Traveller sites Ann McKechin: To ask the Secretary of State for have been granted by the Planning Inspectorate since Scotland what discussions he has had with Scottish 1997; and how many such sites have been removed Ministers on Scottish Government co-operation with following the expiry of temporary permissions. [67689] the judicial inquiry into phone hacking and allegations of police corruption. [68199] Robert Neill [holding answer 19 July 2011]: Data held by the Planning Inspectorate does not specifically Michael Moore: The Secretary of State for Culture, categorise appeals into those involving temporary Olympics, Media and Sport corresponded with the First permissions. However they have been able to identify Minister on 17 and 18 July regarding the terms of planning appeals shown in the following table from key reference for the Lord Justice Leveson Inquiry. The word searches of the development description. Such Lord Justice Leveson has confirmed that he is happy to word searches may not have found all appeals that the discuss any issues regarding the inquiry directly with Planning Inspectorate has handled. The data does not the First Minister. 27W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 28W

NORTHERN IRELAND Mr Andrew Mitchell: I refer the hon. Member to my answer to the hon. Member for Glasgow Central (Anas British Sky Broadcasting Sarwar) on 7 July 2011, Official Report, column 1377W.

Luciana Berger: To ask the Secretary of State for Tony Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland how much his Department has spent International Development what steps his Department on subscriptions to Sky TV since May 2010. [67569] plans to take to support the Government of Afghanistan to (a) fill its national health worker gap Mr Paterson: The Northern Ireland Office has not spent and (b) ensure that health workers are supported to any money on Sky TV subscriptions since May 2010. work in the parts of that country in greatest need. Departmental Consultants [64864]

Austin Mitchell: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Andrew Mitchell: I refer the hon. Member to my Northern Ireland how many senior civil servants in answer to the hon. Member for Glasgow Central (Anas his Department at each grade had worked for Sarwar) on 11 July 2011, Official Report, column 160W. PricewaterhouseCoopers, Ernst & Young, Deloitte or KPMG immediately prior to taking up their appointment Tony Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for in each of the last four years; what consultancy agreements International Development what steps his Department his Department had with those firms in each such year; plans to take to support the Government of Afghanistan and how many consultants from those firms have advised in delivering (a) health care and (b) other basic services. his Department in each such year. [68949] [64865]

Mr Paterson: Comparable figures for the Department Mr Andrew Mitchell: I refer the hon. Member to my as it is now configured are not available before 12 April answer to the hon. Member for Glasgow Central (Anas 2010 following the completion of devolution of policing Sarwar) on 11 July 2011, Official Report, column 160W. and justice functions. Since that date we have appointed no new members of the SCS. We have not entered into any consultancy agreements with any of these firms. Afghanistan: Maternity Services One individual from one of the organisations named has provided advice on a personal, unpaid basis. Tony Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for Departmental Correspondence International Development what steps his Department is taking to reduce (a) maternal, (b) newborn and (c) Austin Mitchell: To ask the Secretary of State for child mortality rates in Afghanistan. [64866] Northern Ireland how many letters his Department received from hon. Members in June 2011. [68752] Mr Andrew Mitchell: I refer the hon. Member to my answer to the hon. Member for Glasgow Central (Anas Mr Paterson: During June 2011 my Department received Sarwar) on 11 July 2011, Official Report, column 161W. 10 letters from hon. Members.

Africa: Agriculture PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMISSION National Audit Office: Government Procurement Card Mr Offord: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development what assessment his Department has made of the potential returns from investment in smallholder Charlie Elphicke: To ask the Chairman of the Public agriculture in Africa as a means of stimulating rural Accounts Commission how many staff of the National development and enabling the very poorest farmers to Audit Office hold (a) a Government Procurement lift themselves out of poverty. [68025] Card and (b) other corporate charge cards. [68888]

Mr Leigh: The National Audit Office (NAO) keeps Mr O’Brien: The UK Government recognises the under constant review the business need for individuals importance of investing in smallholder agriculture and to have Government procurement cards. Following a is a strong supporter of Africa’s own initiative, the review in July it has reduced the number of cardholders “Comprehensive African Agriculture Development from 26 to 15. The NAO does not use other corporate Programme” (CAADP). CAADP’s aim is to boost charge cards. agricultural growth and productivity in order to reduce poverty and hunger. CAADP was established by the Africa Union in 2003 and its member states agreed to invest 10% of their national budgets in an effort to raise INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT agricultural productivity growth to 6% per year. The Afghanistan: Health Services UK has contributed to the establishment of the Regional Strategic Analysis and Knowledge Support System: Tony Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for www.resakss.org International Development how much of the Afghanistan which monitors and assesses progress against these Reconstruction Trust Fund (a) has been spent on and targets. In 2009, seven countries had met the 10% (b) is to be used to pay health worker salaries in that investment target and 17 have met or exceeded the 6% country. [64863] productivity target. 29W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 30W

Africa: Education Departmental Dismissal

Joan Walley: To ask the Secretary of State for Stephen Barclay: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development what steps he is taking to International Development how many officials in his increase the number of girls going to school in Africa; Department were dismissed for under-performance as a and if he will make a statement. [67968] result of the procedures arising from his Department’s staff appraisal system in each of the last three years. Mr Duncan: The Government have put the provision [64683] of more opportunities for girls to participate in education at the heart of our aid programme. Our aim over the Mr O’Brien: No officials in the Department for next four years is to support at least 9 million young International Development have been dismissed as a people in primary schools and 2 million young people result of the procedures arising from his Department’s at secondary level. 5.4 million of the primary school staff appraisal system, in each of the last three years. students and 550,000 of the secondary school students will be in Africa. We anticipate that at least 50% of Departmental Responsibilities these young people will be girls. In our 14 focus countries in Africa that are prioritising Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for education as a result of our Bilateral Aid Review, we are International Development on how many occasions a exploring a number of different strategies’ for addressing request for a meeting by an hon. Member of each the high dropout of girls in primary education and political party was refused by (a) a Minister in his supporting the transition to secondary school. Department directly and (b) his Department on behalf We are working with a wide range of partners who of a Minister in November 2010. [67582] share our concern to promote girls’ education. Our partnership with the Nike Foundation’s ’Girl Hub’ Mr Andrew Mitchell: The Department for International focuses on meeting the educational needs of adolescent Development (DFID) is unable to provide this information girls, working in particular in Ethiopia, Nigeria and without incurring disproportionate costs. My Ministers Rwanda. and I regularly meet MPs of all parties to discuss DFID-related issues on which they have a concern or British Sky Broadcasting interest.

Luciana Berger: To ask the Secretary of State for Developing Countries: Agriculture International Development how much his Department has spent on subscriptions to Sky TV since May 2010. Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for [67567] International Development what the policy of his Department is on the Global Agriculture and Food Mr Duncan: The Department for International Security Programme. [67655] Development (DFID) does not have any subscriptions to Sky TV for any of its offices. Mr Duncan: The UK has not contributed to the Global Agriculture and Food Security Programme. Departmental Air Travel Department for International Development Ministers are still considering whether providing funds for this programme would represent value for money and make John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for a significant, additional contribution to our support for International Development on what occasions he has food and nutritional security in developing countries. flown on official business (a) by budget airline and (b) in economy class in the last 12 months. [67915] Developing Countries: Education Mr Andrew Mitchell: In the 12 months 13 July 2010-11 I flew, on official business, economy class 19 times and Bill Esterson: To ask the Secretary of State for by budget airline twice. International Development what support he is giving to girls in developing countries to ensure that they have the same level of access to education as boys. [68021] Departmental Carbon Emissions Mr O’Brien: The Government are placing girls and Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State women at the centre of our aid programme. All Department for International Development pursuant to the answer for International Development (DFID) education of 5 July 2011, Official Report, column 1113W, on programmes will have a focus on girls and young women. departmental carbon emissions, whether the sources of We are working with existing and new development low-carbon energy generation it is installing on its partners to combine general support to education systems estate were manufactured in the UK. [67934] with targeted interventions to address girls’ drop out rates and support their transition to lower secondary Mr Duncan: The biomass boiler has not yet been schooling. Following a comprehensive review of all UK procured. It will be procured using best procurement aid programmes the Government plans to support at practice and in accordance with appropriate UK least 9 million children in primary school, over half of procurement rules and legislation in order to achieve whom will be girls, and 2 million children in secondary value for money. school by 2014-15. 31W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 32W

Bill Esterson: To ask the Secretary of State for Under its new high-level business plan, CDC capital International Development what assessment he has will be focused on the poorest countries and parts of made of the effect of his Department’s development sub-Saharan Africa and South Asia where it will help support on education (a) in Sierra Leone, (b) of girls support and create better and more equal opportunities in that country and (c) in other developing countries. for women through, for example, the provision of [68100] microfinance, where 70% of borrowers are typically women. Mr Andrew Mitchell: Education is the key to beating CDC provides its fund managers with comprehensive poverty and one of the best investments we can make guidance on environmental, social and governance issues. for global prosperity and our common future, Sierra The guidance provides specific detail to managers on Leone is still struggling to rebuild its education system how to improve investee company performance on gender, after a brutal 10-year civil war and the UK will be including advice on pay, maternity and paternity leave, significantly expanding its education programme over health matters, harassment and safety of women employees the next four years. Since the end of the war, the UK and appointing women to company boards. has helped the Government of Sierra Leone more than double the number of children in primary school to 1.4 million, helped train 3,100 teachers and provided Ethiopia: Health Services support for nationwide school monitoring and supervision. The Department for International Development (DFID) places girls and women at the centre of its work. In Tony Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for Sierra Leone, DFID is focusing on, among other things: International Development how many additional (a) teacher training and management; improving the quality doctors, (b) nurses, (c) midwives and (d) other health of education; and access for girls. Through support to workers his Department estimates will be required in the Government of Sierra Leone’s budget, the UK has Ethiopia to achieve his Department’s target to increase contributed to the rapid expansion in the number of the number of births delivered with the help of nurses, girls receiving a primary education, from 585,000 in midwives or doctors to 500,000 by 2015. [64719] 2004 to 698,000 in 2010. By 2014-15 we will be supporting at least 11 million Mr Duncan: The Department for International children in school, of which 250,000 will be in Sierra Development (DFID) is scaling up UK support for Leone. health service delivery in Ethiopia. One of the targets for this support is to ensure that 500,000 additional Developing Countries: Females births are delivered by a skilled birth attendant by 2015. DFID plans to support the delivery of the Government Alison McGovern: To ask the Secretary of State for of Ethiopia’s five year health sector programme to International Development what assessment he has made achieve this target. The Government of Ethiopia estimate of the opportunities to support the empowerment of the following projected need for additional health workers women through his Department’s Private Sector across Ethiopia in 2015. Department. [67849] Additional Baseline Projected need health workers Mr Duncan: The Department for International (2010) (2015) needed Development’s (DFID) vision for girls and women has economic empowerment as a central pillar. DFID’s (a) Doctors 2,152 16,024 13,872 (all specialists Private Sector Department is working with, on and and general through the private sector to help women gain direct practitioners) access to, and control over, economic assets, serving in (b) Nurses 20,109 41,009 20,900 turn to boost their status in communities and households. (c) Midwives 1,379 8,635 7,256 The Private Sector Department is developing programmes (d) Health 3,760 6,345 2,585 to support women by improving employment opportunities officers and increasing their access to financial and basic services. Across DFID, we plan to improve access to financial services for over 18 million women; help 2.3 million Tony Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for women attain employment, and secure land rights for International Development what steps his Department 4.5 million women. is taking to ensure that health workers are deployed to the parts of Ethiopia identified as being in greatest Alison McGovern: To ask the Secretary of State for need. [64721] International Development what assessment he has made of the contribution of the CDC business plan to Mr Duncan: The Department for International addressing gender disparities in developing countries; Development (DFID) is providing support for health and if he will make a statement. [67850] service delivery across Ethiopia. At the district level, this includes financing for the salary costs of government Mr Duncan: The Commonwealth Development health workers. To 2015, the UK plans to support Corporation (CDC) recognises the importance of almost 3,000 community level Health Extension Workers addressing gender disparity in terms of employment, who are providing a package of preventative and basic training and opportunities for women in the developing curative services to more than 7 million people in rural world. communities across the country. 33W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 34W

Despite these efforts, some parts of Ethiopia are the Maldives indirectly through our contribution to lagging behind others in terms of access to health multilateral partners such as the World Bank and the services. To respond to this, DFID is currently designing Asia Development Bank including with climate change a ’Peace and Development Programme’ (PDP) focusing funds. initially in the Somali Region of Ethiopia which has the Secretary of State recently wrote to UK Trade and lowest health indicators in the country. PDP will include Investment encouraging them to do more to help the a service delivery component focussed on expanding Maldivian Government as a Commonwealth country people’s access to health workers and services. working hard to make democracy function after decades of dictatorship. Liberia: Health Services John Glen: To ask the Secretary of State for International Tony Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for Development how much money was contributed to the International Development what estimate his Department Maldives from his Department’s budget in 2010-11; has made of the number of health workers required in and how much he plans to contribute to the Maldives in Liberia to achieve the objectives of its operational plan (a) 2011-12 and (b) 2012-13. [67741] in respect of reducing (a) maternal and (b) infant mortality rates by 2013; and how many (i) doctors, (ii) Mr Duncan: The Department for International nurses, (iii) midwives and (iv) other health workers his Development has now reduced its bilateral focus to 27 Department plans to support to meet these objectives. countries with huge burdens of poverty, of which the [64861] Maldives is not one. The Maldives has now graduated to middle income status and has achieved five out of the Mr O’Brien: I refer the hon. Member to my answer to eight Millennium Development Goals ahead of the the hon. Member for Glasgow Central (Anas Sarwar) 2015 deadline. on 11 July 2011, Official Report columns 163-4W. The UK does however support the Maldives through the British high commission in Colombo and indirectly Tony Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for through our contribution to multilateral partners such International Development what steps his Department as the World Bank and the Asian Development Bank. plans to take to ensure that health workers are The Maldives is also a pilot country in the Climate deployed to the parts of Liberia in greatest need. Investment Funds Scaling-up Renewable Energy [64862] Programme, which the UK supports, and can access the Special Climate Change Fund and Adaption Fund Mr O’Brien: I refer the hon. Member to my answer of (which recently approved a $10 million freshwater supply 11 July 2011, Official Report, column 163-4W, to the project in the Maldives). The UK supports both these hon. Member for Glasgow Central (Anas Sarwar). funds. Libya: Armed Conflict Maputo Declaration Mr Douglas Alexander: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development what reports on post- Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for conflict planning in Libya have been produced by the International Development what recent representations Stabilisation Unit. [65073] his Department has made to African governments on implementation of the African, Caribbean and Pacific Mr Andrew Mitchell: The Stabilisation Unit has not Group of States Maputo Declaration. [67853] itself produced any report as such on post-conflict planning in Libya. It facilitated the deployment of an Mr O’Brien: Britain routinely discusses factors affecting International Stabilisation Response Team (ISRT) to economic growth and food security with partner eastern Libya, on behalf of the Secretary of State for governments in Africa. UK Government officials also International Development. The International Stabilisation participate in twice yearly meetings of the Comprehensive Response Team was composed of experts from the UK, African Agriculture Development Programme. We use US, Italy, Denmark, Canada, Australia and Turkey. these meetings, and our country level work, to review The report they produced is intended to support Libyan-led the programme with the African Union and member stabilisation planning, and its analysis has informed the states and urge progress towards the Maputo productivity ongoing planning in Whitehall Departments as well as and expenditure targets. the National Transitional Council (NTC) and UN experts engaged in work on this. National Security Council

Maldives: Overseas Aid Steve Rotheram: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development what role and responsibilities Karen Lumley: To ask the Secretary of State for he has in relation to the National Security Council; and International Development what steps his Department what recent contribution he has made to its work. is taking to help the Government of the Maldives to [67415] promote economic growth in that country. [67496] Mr Andrew Mitchell: I am a member of the National Mr Duncan: As a middle income country without Security Council which meets regularly, in some cases large numbers of people living on less than a dollar a several times a week. I contribute fully to the consideration day/the Maldives does not receive development aid of the wide-ranging domestic and international security directly from the UK. The UK does however support questions tackled by the National Security Council. 35W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 36W

Overseas Aid Tony Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development how his Department plans to ensure that health workers are deployed to the parts Ms Angela Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for of Sierra Leone in greatest need. [64803] International Development what the cost was of his Department’s systematic reviews into the effectiveness Mr O’Brien: I refer the hon. Member to my answer to of its 10 key policy interventions. [65032] the hon. Member for Glasgow Central (Anas Sarwar) on 7 July 2011, Official Report, column 1384W. Mr Andrew Mitchell: The aim of Department for International Development (DFID) funded systematic Tony Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for reviews is to identify the effectiveness of key policy International Development how many additional health interventions of interest to DFID. Systematic reviews workers his Department estimates will be required in enable evidence to be neutrally mapped out, quality Sierra Leone to achieve the targets in his Department’s assured and synthesised, in order to inform policy and operational plan for (a) reducing maternal mortality practice decisions, and increase value for money by rates and (b) increasing the proportion of births delivered basing decisions on a rigorous understanding of what by skilled health personnel by 2015; and how many (i) works. doctors, (ii) nurses, (iii) midwives and (iv) other health By the end of March 2011, the 10 systematic reviews workers his Department plans to provide support to had been completed and were available on the Department meet these targets. [64804] for International Development’s Research for Development website at a cost of £329,849. The groups that carried Mr O’Brien: I refer the hon. Member to the answer out the reviews were supported and peer reviewed by provided by the Secretary of State to the hon. Member the International Initiative for Impact Evaluation and for Glasgow Central (Anas Sarwar) on 7 July 2011, the Evidence for Policy and Practice Information and Official Report, column 1384W. Co-ordinating Centre. South Sudan: Poverty

Sierra Leone: Education Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development what assistance his Department is providing to (a) poverty reduction and Bill Esterson: To ask the Secretary of State for (b) education programmes in South Sudan. [68274] International Development what support he is providing to development in Sierra Leone in 2011-12; and how Mr Andrew Mitchell: The Department for International much support has been allocated to (a) education and Development’s (DFID) four-year operational plan for (b) education of girls in that country. [68022] South Sudan was published on 28 July 2011. DFID is aiming for ambitious results including: one million people Mr O’Brien: In 2011-12, UK aid will support improved getting enough food to eat; increased private sector governance, economic growth and natural resource investment and trade by reducing cross-border transport management and the delivery of better services, such as costs by up to 15%; 240,000 more children completing education, health care, security and justice across Sierra primary school, and 12 million textbooks printed and Leone. This support will enable 20,000 more births to distributed to almost two million children. be attended by trained health personnel, provide access A total budget allocation of £375 million has been to sanitation to nearly 400,000 people and support approved for South Sudan over the current AF period. 168,000 children in primary and junior secondary school, In 2011-12 alone we are looking to spend nearly £90 of which 82,000 are girls. In order to achieve this £58 million. million has been allocated for development in Sierra Leone, of which £5 million is for education. Sub-Saharan Africa: Agriculture While the UK’s current education programme supports the general provision of education, new UK projects Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for International will begin in late 2011-12 and 2012-13 with specific Development what support his Department is providing activities targeting girls. These include piloting the provision for the creation of new jobs in the agriculture sector in of food packages to families on condition that their sub-Saharan Africa. [67654] daughters attend school, teacher training and supervision and providing separate sanitation facilities at schools. Mr Duncan: The Department for International Development is supporting the agricultural sector in countries such as Malawi, Nigeria, Rwanda, Somalia, Sierra Leone: Health Services Tanzania, Zambia and Zimbabwe and by doing so is creating employment opportunities. For example, in Somalia the UK’s support to the European Commission Tony Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for and United Nations Food and Agriculture Organisation International Development what objectives he has set is expected to create 45,000 agricultural and trade-related for his Department’s support for health sector salaries jobs by 2015, many of which will be taken up by in Sierra Leone. [64802] women. Britain also supports the Africa Enterprise Challenge Mr O’Brien: I refer the hon. Member to my answer to Fund (AECF) which was established in 2008 and has the hon. Member for Glasgow Central (Anas Sarwar) already supported a million farmers through the provision on 7 July 2011, Official Report, columns 1383-4W. of grants or interest free loans to commercial enterprises 37W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 38W to innovate and find profitable ways of improving market performance and overall effectiveness. A key area identified access for small farmers. In south Sudan, AECF has for reform is the need for the bank to step up its efforts supported SAB Miller to work with small-holder farmers to further integrate climate change and environmental to grow cassava for beer production. This will improve sustainability across all its operations. We are already market opportunities for around 2,000 farmers and working with the bank and using a range of platforms create much needed employment in Africa’s newest to advance this agenda—particularly our own seat on country. In Zimbabwe, AECF support is expected to the bank’s board and other focused technical level create around 1,400 agriculture-related jobs by 2015. discussions. The forthcoming Rio2012 conference offers a further Sub-Saharan Africa: Sanitation opportunity to deepen global understanding of the reasons why such integration is necessary and to act on Mr Andrew Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for this understanding—through all multilateral and bilateral International Development what steps his Department institutions, governments, civil society and the private is taking to assist in the provision of clean water and sector. The UK expects to support options for the conference that command the support of a wide range sanitation in sub-Saharan Africa. [68306] of countries and deliver real progress and benefits to developing countries. Any outcomes relating to the Mr Duncan: As set out in ″UK Aid: Changing lives, World Bank’s work will be considered in this context. delivering results″ the UK Government aim to: give 15 million people access to clean drinking water; improve access to sanitation for 25 million people; and improve hygiene for 15 million people. The majority of our effort will be in Africa, which is WALES where the needs are greatest and progress is in danger of stagnating. Subject to the preparation of robust business cases that demonstrate value for money, we plan to have Broadcasting Programmes: Welsh Language five new major bilateral programmes on water and sanitation in Africa (Tanzania, Mozambique, Malawi, Zambia and Zimbabwe). We will also continue to support Jonathan Edwards: To ask the Secretary of State for existing programmes in four countries that have among Wales whether she has met (a) Welsh Ministers and (b) the largest numbers of people without access to water the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and and sanitation in Africa (Ethiopia, Democratic Republic Sport to discuss the future of Welsh language broadcasting, of Congo, Nigeria and Sierra Leone). including the devolution functions; and if she will make a statement. [68693]

Sustainable Development: International Cooperation Mr David Jones: The Secretary of State for Wales and I have regular meetings with the First Minister and with : To ask the Secretary of State for the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and International Development if he will promote international Sport, the right hon. Member for South West Surrey systems for payment for ecosystem services as part of (Mr Hunt), on a range of issues including Welsh language preparatory discussions for the Rio 2012 Conference on broadcasting. Sustainable Development. [67382] We remain committed to a strong and independent Welsh language TV service and believe that arrangements Mr O’Brien: The UK is currently working on options set out in the spending review last year will deliver a for the Rio conference. The agenda item at the conference secure future for S4C. We therefore have no plans to on the ″green economy″ offers a key opportunity to devolve broadcasting matters. deepen global understanding of the complex interactions between natural resources, climate change and poverty Jonathan Edwards: To ask the Secretary of State for eradication through a strong economic growth lens, and Wales whether she has met (a) Welsh Ministers and to act on this understanding. (b) the Secretary of State for the Home Department We expect to support options for the conference that regarding the scrutiny of and support required by command the support of a wide range of countries and police commissioners in Wales; and if she will make a deliver real progress and benefits to developing countries. statement. [68695] Promotion of international systems for payment for ecosystem services will be considered in this context. Mr David Jones: My right hon. Friend, the Secretary of State for Wales and I have met Welsh Government Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for Ministers to discuss Police and Crime Commissioners International Development if he will bring forward in Wales. proposals to reform the governance of the World Bank We have also met with Home Office Ministers and to give greater weight to sustainability issues as part of are continuing to work constructively with them to the preparatory process for the Rio 2012 Conference ensure that Police and Crime Commissioners are introduced on Sustainable Development. [67383] effectively in Wales. We have discussed many aspects of the policy including Mr O’Brien: The UK’s Multilateral Aid Review (MAR) scrutiny and support. The Government remains fully highlighted areas where the World Bank is performing committed to the introduction of Police and Crime well and others where further reform is needed. These Commissioners policy. Preparatory work has commenced reforms will underpin an improvement in the bank’s to ensure that we get implementation right in Wales. 39W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 40W

ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS Most recently for example, amongst other issues, discussions have taken place in relation to rules surrounding Air Pollution the movement of pets and tapeworm controls.

Luciana Berger: To ask the Secretary of State for George Freeman: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs when she plans Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what steps she is to publish data on road transport emissions in 2010. taking (a) domestically and (b) at EU level to prevent [68615] the spread of disease (i) between and (ii) within wild animal, livestock and domesticated animal Richard Benyon: DEFRA will publish national statistics populations; and if she will make a statement. [68721] on UK emissions of five major air quality pollutants for 2010 in December. The underlying data published at Mr Paice: Control policies for dealing with exotic the same time will provide emissions for different source disease are developed and reviewed in close partnership sectors, including road transport. Data on emissions of with delivery agents, core groups of stakeholders and other air quality pollutants for 2010 by source sector specialists. This ensures they are proportionate and will be published in February 2012. evidence based within the framework of European and national law. Our contingency plans for dealing with The Department of Energy and Climate Change will outbreaks, if they occur, are regularly reviewed. Plans publish national statistics on UK greenhouse gas emissions are regularly tested at local and national level, working for 2010 in early February 2012. closely with delivery partners and industry. We closely monitor outbreaks of high impact disease around the Animal Welfare world and assess the risk to the UK. All of these measures rely very much on vigilance by farmers and Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for animal keepers in identifying and reporting possible Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what training disease. Monitoring animals for signs of disease and (a) farmers and (b) landowners will receive to ensure following good biosecurity and hygiene practices are that cull operators are competent to (i) conduct a cull, essential ways of reducing risk of disease in the first (ii) minimise perturbation and (iii) do so with high place and then preventing spread. Further information regard to animal welfare. [68415] is available through DEFRA’S website at: www.defra.gov.uk/animal-diseases/ Mr Paice: Operators would be required to demonstrate competence and attend an approved training course in Badgers order to obtain a licence to carry out culling. Training would comprise attendance at a Government-approved Mary Creagh: To ask the Secretary of State for course which would cover anatomical and behavioural Environment, Food and Rural Affairs when she plans characteristics of badgers and how these differ from to publish the names of the independent scientific those of other species. Additional marksmanship training experts who are to be asked to evaluate the two badger and assessment would be required for those who may cull pilots. [68980] have experience but no formal qualification. The licence conditions would also require all operators to adhere to Mr Paice: Further details regarding the independent Best Practice Guidance issued by DEFRA/Natural panel of scientific experts that will evaluate the two England. pilot areas will be published alongside an announcement on the outcome of the current consultation. Mary Creagh: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what discussions Mary Creagh: To ask the Secretary of State for she has had with the Wildlife Crime Unit on the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what criteria she unlawful persecution of badgers since September 2010; has established for the (a) monitoring and (b) measurement and on what dates. [68989] of the effectiveness of the proposed badger cull pilots. [68982] Mr Paice: I met with representatives from the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO), including the Wildlife Mr Paice: Controlled shooting would be initially Crime Unit, on 7 February 2011 to discuss the proposed piloted in two areas, to test our assumptions about its badger control policy. effectiveness and humaneness. The evaluation of these pilots would be overseen by an independent panel of Animals: Disease Control scientific experts. In parallel with the current consultation, we are drawing up details of how the pilots will be George Freeman: To ask the Secretary of State for monitored and measured. These are likely to include Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what discussions monitoring humaneness via field observations and post she has had with her EU counterparts on measures to mortems, and measuring the rate of badger removal. prevent animal diseases entering the UK; and if she We expect the expert panel to advise on the exact will make a statement. [68671] specification of the monitoring work.

Mr Paice: DEFRA Ministers and officials have continual Mary Creagh: To ask the Secretary of State for contact, through various means, with their EU counterparts Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what estimate in Animal Health and Welfare teams across Europe to she has made of the number of badgers to be culled discuss issues relating to the prevention of animal diseases (a) per cull area and (b) in total in the next four years. entering the UK. [68983] 41W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 42W

Mr Paice: We would expect around 1,000 to 1,500 Mr Paice: I am afraid we cannot share the Home badgers to be culled in a 150km2 area over four years. Office advice but I can assure you that we are in This is based on data available from the Randomised discussion with the Association of Chief Police Officers Badger Culling Trial (RBCT). The total number of (ACPO) and with the Home Office during the consultation badgers culled will depend on the number of licences period regarding the police response and associated issued, and the size of area being culled. The number of costs related to badger culling. licences issued will be limited to a maximum of 10 per year. Natural England will work with licence co-ordinators Mary Creagh: To ask the Secretary of State for to assess the badger population in the control area and Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what the average will set an upper limit on the percentage of the estimated monetary guarantee groups of farmers and landowners badger population that may be killed each year in each will be required to provide to her Department for the control area. grant of a cull licence. [68993]

Mary Creagh: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Paice: Participants would be required to deposit Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if she will sufficient funds to cover the total expected cost of the publish the advice her Department has received from four-year cull (plus a contingency sum) before culling the Bern Convention Secretariat on the effect of a begins. The amount that would be required to be deposited badger cull. [68984] would vary according to the size and nature of the culling operation in each area so it is not possible at this Mr Paice: The Bern Convention operates a “case stage to provide a figure for the average sum. Government file” system where, in response to a complaint received would be able to access these funds in the event that it it may raise a file for discussion at the Bern Standing needed to intervene, and be able to levy additional Committee. The contracting party against whom the funds from the original participants should that be complaint has been made will need to satisfy the Committee necessary. of action taken to address the issue and the Committee may advise what that action should be. The Bern Standing Mary Creagh: To ask the Secretary of State for Committee will not take action before a complaint has Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what estimate been received. she has made of the likely reduction of bovine TB levels (a) in cull areas and (b) nationally after (i) four In 2010, the Bern Bureau considered a complaint and (ii) nine years from the start of culling. [69043] from the Badger Trust about proposed badger control action in Wales. Having considered the reasons for the Mr Paice: The average effects seen during and post action proposed, the Bureau decided to take the case off culling in the Randomised Badger Culling Trial (RBCT) the list of the complaints in stand-by. can be used to estimate the average net effect of culling We are not aware of a complaint having been passed over different sized areas over a nine year period (average to the Bern Secretariat on the current proposal (published five years’ culling and four year post cull period). For for consultation on 19 July 2011) for badger control in example, the estimated average net benefit of culling England as part of a package of measures to tackle TB over an area of 150 km2 and the surrounding 2 km ring in cattle. is a 16.0% reduction in confirmed TB incidence (95% The UK is obliged under Article 9.2 of the Bern confidence interval: 7.9% reduction to 24.2% reduction), Convention to report every two years to the Bern Standing equating to the prevention of 47 cattle herd breakdowns. Committee any action taken in accordance with the What is seen in reality will vary greatly depending on derogations provided for under Article 9.1. Any control local conditions including the size of the area, local of badgers undertaken would need to be included in background incidence of TB, the relative contribution this report. that badgers make to the disease and the degree to which the culled area is surrounded by barriers or Mary Creagh: To ask the Secretary of State for buffers to minimise the perturbation effect. Any estimates Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how much a of overall beneficial effect are illustrative for a defined badger cull licence will cost. [68986] set of circumstances. The Government are not proposing culling over the Mr Paice: Under our current proposals applicants whole endemic area at the same time. We are proposing would not be charged for licences. reductions of local badger populations in order to have a local impact in high incidence areas. A controlled Mary Creagh: To ask the Secretary of State for reduction of badger populations in the worst affected Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (1) if she will areas can make an important contribution as part of a publish the undertakings she has provided to the Secretary comprehensive and balanced package of measures to of State for the Home Department on the funding of tackle TB in cattle. the policing costs associated with a badger cull; [68990] Mary Creagh: To ask the Secretary of State for (2) whether she has considered the provision of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what areas her armed police to (a) protect those contracted to Department plans to use as comparators to assess the conduct the badger cull and (b) to police any public local impacts of badger culls. [69044] protests arising from culls; [68991] (3) what estimate she has made of the cost to her Mr Paice: The Government will take responsibility Department of (a) policing the two badger cull pilots for monitoring the effectiveness, humaneness and impact and (b) policing for all culling activity in the next four of badger control, which will include monitoring of TB years. [68992] incidence and other epidemiological measures in cattle. 43W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 44W

This is likely to include the examination of historical participants’ obligations, and if necessary as a last data and future incidence of TB in cattle within licensed resort allow Government to intervene, access participating areas and comparative areas where no badger control is land, take over responsibility for a culling operation, taking place. Efforts will be made to match comparative and recover costs from the participants, should the areas to licensed areas on as many epidemiologically participants fail to meet the conditions of the licence. relevant characteristics as possible, e.g. geographical Participants would also be required to deposit sufficient location and historical cattle TB incidence. funds to cover the total expected cost of the four-year cull (plus a contingency sum) before culling begins. Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Government would be able to access these funds in the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (1) what event that it needed to intervene, and be able to levy assessment her Department has made of the rate of additional funds from the original participants should survival of badgers injured but not killed in its previous that be necessary. trials of badger shooting; [68275] (2) if she will make an assessment of the effects on the suffering experienced by badgers of (a) cage Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what proposals shooting and (b) free shooting. [68408] her Department has for vaccination around a badger culling area. [68414] Mr Paice: The only two culling methods that we are proposing to permit are cage-trapping and shooting and controlled shooting, on the basis that they are both Mr Paice: As set out in our draft guidance to Natural considered to be humane. The Randomised Badger England, vaccination could be used in combination Culling Trial (RBCT) provided evidence on the humaneness with culling, for example as a buffer for areas where of cage-trapping and shooting. No badgers were injured vaccination may help reduce the risks to vulnerable but not killed in this trial. Controlled shooting was not livestock of increased TB incidence, both within and part of the RBCT, but has been effective in controlling surrounding a control area, as a result of perturbation other wild animal populations such as deer and foxes. from the local badger population. This method has not been used to date in any trial or field test on badgers, which is why (if the Government Where the use of vaccination in combination with decide to proceed with the policy following the current culling is proposed, the following best practice is consultation) we intend to pilot it in two areas, to test recommended: our assumptions about its effectiveness (at removing a. where vaccination is to be used as a buffer, it should be used badgers) and humaneness. These pilots would be overseen at active badger setts found on, or adjacent to, land where by an independent panel of scientific experts. vulnerable livestock are present and which fall within 2km of the edge of a control area; Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for b. vaccination should take place at least 4 weeks prior to Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what evidence culling to allow immunity to develop in uninfected vaccinated her Department has assessed of the likely effects of animals; perturbation in conjunction with the practice of free c. to mitigate any ongoing perturbation effect and begin to shooting in plans for badger population control. build up “herd immunity”, vaccination should be carried out [68409] annually, continuing for at least the same length of time as any culling on adjacent land; and Mr Paice: There is no reason to believe that controlled d. where culling and vaccination are taking place on adjacent shooting will have any greater effect on perturbation land, boundary cage-trapping (designed to cull badgers resident on inaccessible land) should be avoided. than cage trapping and shooting. Provided controlled shooting adheres to the same strict licence criteria, and We also intend to make available up to £250,000 a the same number of badgers are removed during a year of new funding to support farmers and landowners similar period of time, there is no reason to suppose the who plan to vaccinate badgers. More details will be effect seen will be any different to that observed in the published shortly. Randomised Badger Culling Trial (RBCT). As there are no empirical data available on the effect Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, of controlled shooting on perturbation, this assessment Food and Rural Affairs what requirements (a) farmers is based on consultation with experts on badger ecology. and (b) landowners will be required to meet in order to We propose to take a precautionary approach through receive licences for culling badgers. [68416] a pilot of the policy, initially licensing two areas in the first year. Mr Paice: Applications for a culling licence must meet a range of criteria. These are set out in the draft Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for guidance to Natural England, on which we are currently Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what steps her consulting with key stakeholders, at: Department plans to take to ensure the continuity of badger culling under a licensing scheme for the http://www.defra.gov.uk/consult/files/bovinetb-guidance-ne- 110719-annexa.pdf duration of the trials. [68412]

Mr Paice: To ensure continuity that any culling would Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for be carried out for a minimum of four years, we propose Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what plans she that all participants would be required to enter into has to tackle bovine tuberculosis borne by badgers agreements with Natural England, which would set out outside culling areas. [68417] 45W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 46W

Mr Paice: The Government’s TB control programme Bovine Tuberculosis: Disease Control is focused on reducing the incidence of TB in cattle (and other vulnerable livestock) across the whole of England. Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for The proposed badger control policy aims to reduce the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what plans her incidence of TB in cattle in areas with a reservoir of Department has for expenditure on research into disease in badgers and where infection is cycling between combating bovine tuberculosis in each of the next four the species. In such areas the transmission risks can be years. [68404] reduced by badger culling and/or badger vaccination. In areas without a reservoir of disease in badgers, the Mr Paice: The Bovine TB research budget for the main TB risk is from cattle movements. DEFRA’s financial year 2011-12 is £7.9 million. recently published “TB Eradication Programme for England”outlines a comprehensive range of cattle measures For 2012-13 it will be £7.5 million. to address bovine TB which remain the cornerstone of For 2013-14 it is anticipated to be between £6.6 million and our efforts to control the disease right across the country. £7.5 million. For 2014-15 it is anticipated to be between £5.4 million and Biofuels £7.4 million. The budget has not yet been set for 2015-16. Laura Sandys: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs whether the Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Rapid Response Forum of G20 agriculture ministers Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what assessment plans to consider a temporary adjustment of biofuels she has made of the effects of implementation of her policies. [68624] Department’s policy on the badger population in England on the transmission of bovine tuberculosis Mr Paice: The Rapid Response Forum, which is a (a) between badgers and (b) from badgers to cattle in body of senior officials, will respond to particular crises areas adjacent to designated culling areas. [68407] as and when they occur or threaten to occur. It is thus not possible to say in advance what measures might be Mr Paice: The results of the Randomised Badger considered, since particular measures are likely to be Culling Trial (RBCT) showed that incidence of TB in relevant to some situations and not others. However, cattle on land immediately surrounding the culling area the action plan agreed by G20 Agriculture Ministers had a temporary increase, which then tailed off. With provides for further work on the relationship between the latest post-trial analysis showing that 12-18 months biofuels production and the response of agriculture to after culling stopped the level of TB in cattle in the price increase and volatility, and I expect the results of surrounding area was compatible with the survey-only that work to be available to the forum in due course. areas. This is thought to be due to the disruption of the organisation of badger social groups, called perturbation, Boats causing remaining badgers to range more widely.However, measures can be put in place to mitigate the negative effects seen in the surrounding area, including making Rushanara Ali: To ask the Secretary of State for use of barriers such as coastlines and major rivers, to Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many boats limit badger movement. Vaccination could also be used with (a) a home mooring licence and (b) a continuous to mitigate the negative effects of culling. Our proposal cruising licence have moored on average in (i) the (on which we are currently consulting) therefore requires Rivers Lea and Stort and (ii) the Regent’s Canal in the participants to take reasonable, proportionate and last five years. [69075] appropriate measures to minimise the risk of potential negative effects. Richard Benyon: This information has been recorded since 2007 by British Waterways as follows: Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Average boats observed during licence checks Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what scientific 2007 2008 2009 2010 evidence has been made available to her Department on the effects on control of bovine tuberculosis of Rivers Lea and Stort individual licensing of badger culls. [68410] Boats recorded as having 571 737 769 712 a home mooring Mr Paice: The results of the Randomised Badger Boats recorded as being 107 166 187 241 continuous cruisers Culling Trial (RBCT) demonstrate that badger culling, Other1 22 18 37 45 done on a sufficient scale, in a widespread, coordinated Total 700 921 993 998 and efficient way, and over a sustained period of time, would reduce the incidence of bovine TB in cattle in high incidence areas. Regent’s Canal The proposed policy is for groups of farmers/landowners Boats recorded as having 295 237 308 304 covering areas of at least 150 sq km to apply for a single a home mooring licence. One of the criteria for a licence is that the group Boats recorded as being 33 42 56 112 continuous cruisers would be required to co-ordinate culling across the Other1 11 19 16 24 whole area, for a six-week period, each year for four years. Total 339 298 380 440 1 Includes boats for whom no mooring declaration was received, Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for trailed boats and boats with home moorings on a non British Waterways Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what estimate navigation. her Department has made of the potential differences 47W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 48W in the relative magnitude of the change in increased Mr Graham Stuart: To ask the Secretary of State for incidences and reduced incidences of bovine Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what assessment tuberculosis which will occur through the variation of she has made of the effects on agricultural production any areas culled in comparison to those used during the of the brown-tailed moth caterpillar; and what steps random badger culling trial. [68411] her Department is considering to address the issue. [68734]

Mr Paice: In the Randomised Badger Culling Trial Mr Paice: The brown-tailed moth caterpillar is not a (RBCT), an average five years of proactive culling over significant agricultural pest. Therefore we have not 100 sq km was associated with an average 23.2% decrease made an assessment of the caterpillar’s effect on agricultural in confirmed TB incidence in the culled area, and an production, and are not considering steps to address average 24.5% increase in the surrounding 2 km-wide the issue. ring of land, relative to survey-only areas. As the size of a culled area increases, the relative Coastal Erosion impact of any detrimental effects in the surrounding ring diminishes compared to the benefits seen in the Mr Iain Wright: To ask the Secretary of State for culled area, so the overall net benefit increases. The size Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if she will make of this effect also depends heavily on other factors, funding available to Hartlepool borough council to including the local background incidence of TB, the secure coastal defences in the borough of Hartlepool density of cattle herds and the degree to which the between Crimdon Dene and Newburn Bridge; and if culled area is surrounded by barriers or buffers to she will make a statement. [68019] minimise the perturbation effect. The effects seen during and post culling in the RBCT Richard Benyon: In February 2011, the Environment can be used to estimate the average net effect of culling Agency provided nearly £400,000 to Hartlepool borough over different size areas. council to undertake a strategic review of the coastal frontage from Crimdon Dene to Newburn Bridge. This For example, the estimated average net benefit of coastal strategy, which is due to be completed by the culling over a culled area of 150 sq km and 2 km end of the year, will identify and categorise the risk of surrounding ring is a 16.0% reduction in confirmed TB coastal erosion and coastal flooding along the frontage, incidence (95% confidence interval: 7.9% reduction to and will identify strategic options to address any areas 24.2% reduction) over a nine year period (based on an at immediate risk. average five years’ culling and four year post cull period). This estimate assumes a higher initial TB incidence in Mr Iain Wright: To ask the Secretary of State for the culled area relative to the surrounding ring. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what assessment For comparison, for culling over a 100 sq km area (as she has made of the coastal defences required to ensure in the RBCT), the estimated average net benefit over a that The Headland in the borough of Hartlepool is nine year period would be a 14.0% reduction (95% safeguarded against (a) flooding and (b) rising sea confidence interval: 5.3% reduction to 22.8% reduction). levels; and if she will make a statement. [68020] Richard Benyon: Hartlepool borough council is the Brown-Tailed Moth Caterpillar Coastal Erosion Risk Management Authority leading on coastal protection for the Hartlepool headland. In November 2010, Hartlepool borough council secured Mr Graham Stuart: To ask the Secretary of State for £70,000 of funding from the Environment Agency to Environment, Food and Rural Affairs whether she has undertake a study into the coastal defences around the (a) considered the merits of and (b) assessed the Hartlepool headland, as recommended by the approved efficacy of nucleopolyhedrovirus as a biological control River Tyne to Flamborough Head Shoreline Management of the brown-tailed moth caterpillar. [68645] Plan 2. The study is considering the existing condition of the defences, the assets at risk and options for securing the defences into the future. Mr Paice: The chemicals regulation directorate (CRD), which operates the approvals system for plant protection Cormorants products, has not received an application for the approval of the use of nucleopolyhedrovirus to control the brown Mr Charles Walker: To ask the Secretary of State for tailed moth caterpillar and no assessment has therefore Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what assessment been made. There is, however, a range of pesticide her Department has made of the number of cormorants products approved for use against moths. which roost and feed inshore; and what steps she (a) While there is no approval for nucleopolyhedrovirus has taken and (b) is considering to control their numbers. as a biological control of the brown-tailed moth caterpillar, [60133] CRD has approved other viruses for the control of moths such as the granulosis virus on the codling moth. Richard Benyon [holding answer 16 June 2011]: The CRD operates a Biopesticide Scheme which offers most recently published figures from “The Wetland applicants advice and reduced fees to help in securing Bird Survey” relating to cormorants counted outside approval for such types of biological pesticides. The the breeding season are for the year 2008-09. Coastal amount of scientific data required to support applications and inland counts are not reported separately so figures for such viruses has been reduced in line with international for the number of cormorants which roost and feed guidance. inshore are therefore not available. Maximum counts 49W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 50W outside of the breeding season were reported of 17,149 assurance of each of its catering contracts and (b) in Great Britain in September 2008, and of 1,619 in making it mandatory through Government Buying December 2008. Standards for Departments to buy products that meet No steps have been taken to control cormorant numbers an existing, recognised farm assurance label. [68838] at a national level. Where cormorants come into conflict with inland fisheries Natural England may issue licenses Richard Benyon: The Department has made no direct to lethally control cormorants. Licences to shoot assessment of the cost of auditing the welfare assurance cormorants, typically as an aid to scaring, are issued on of its catering contract. The welfare assurance factors a case by case basis at sites where there is evidence of of the catering contracts would be reviewed in the serious damage to fisheries, or a risk of serious damage ongoing management of the catering contracts on a occurring, and all other practical alternatives have been daily and weekly basis by the supplier and the Department. tried and have failed. The Department has now centralised its catering Recognising concerns raised by anglers and fishery contract provision covering 11 sites in England. The managers, I announced at the Angling and Fisheries mandatory use of the Government Buying Standards summit on 25 January that the Government are to carry to buy products that meet an existing, recognised farm out a review of the current policy in relation to managing assurance label is included in this managed catering the impact of predation on inland fisheries from fish-eating service. birds, including cormorants. Once completed the outcomes of the review will be made publicly available. Departmental Labour Turnover Departmental Correspondence Mr Redwood: To ask the Secretary of State for Austin Mitchell: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many people have been (a) recruited and (b) made letters her Department received from hon. Members in redundant from (i) her Department and (ii) each June 2011. [68757] non-departmental body for which she is responsible since May 2010. [66326] Richard Benyon: DEFRA received 988 letters and 11 invitations directly from hon. Members in June 2011. 88 Richard Benyon: The number of staff who have been of the letters were on subjects for which DEFRA is not (a) recruited, (b) made redundant and (c) taken voluntary responsible and so were transferred to the relevant redundancy or left on a voluntary exit scheme from (i) Departments. Just over 100 letters on DEFRA’s subjects the Department, and (ii) each NDPB since May 2010 is were transferred in by other Departments. set out in the following table. The NDPBs recorded here Departmental Food are DEFRA’s executive non-departmental public bodies. Please note that the Commission for Rural Communities Natascha Engel: To ask the Secretary of State for and the Sustainable Development Commission have Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what assessment closed since May 2010, while Food From Britain closed she has made of the cost to the public purse of (a) in 2009. The Agricultural Wages Board and the Agricultural each Government Department auditing the welfare Wages Committee do not employ any staff.

Number of staff taking voluntary Number of staff made redundancy or leaving on voluntary Department /NDPB Number of staff recruited compulsorily redundant exit scheme

DEFRA (including the executive agencies) 176 — 722 Food From Britain n/a n/a n/a Environment Agency 218 89 560 Agricultural, Horticultural Development Board 96 14 0 Marine Management Organisation — 0 15 Commission for Rural Communities 0 40 — Agricultural Wages Board n/a n/a n/a Agricultural Wages Committee n/a n/a n/a Gangmasters Licensing Authority 12 0 0 Joint Nature Conservation Committee — 0 0 National Forest Company — 0 — Consumer Council for Water 0 0 0 Seafish 0110 Sustainable Development Commission 0 24 8 Kew 71 — 0 Natural England 11 0 294 Note: Numbers of less than five are not disclosed for reasons of confidentiality 51W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 52W

Departmental Redundancy payments and compensation paid to staff leaving on voluntary exit schemes since May 2010 in (i) the Mr Redwood: To ask the Secretary of State for Department, and (ii) each NDPB is set out in the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how much (a) following table. The NDPBs recorded here are DEFRA’s her Department and (b) each non-departmental body Executive NDPBs. for which she is responsible has spent on redundancies Please note that the Commission for Rural Communities since May 2010. [66345] and the Sustainable Development Commission have closed since May 2010, while Food From Britain closed Richard Benyon: The amount spent on (a) compulsory in 2009. The Agricultural Wages Board and the Agricultural redundancy payments and (b) voluntary redundancy Wages Committee do not employ any staff.

£ Amount spent on compulsory redundancy Amount spent on voluntary redundancy payments Department/NDPB payments and voluntary exit scheme compensation

DEFRA (including the Executive agencies) 248,483 28,651,496 Food From Britain n/a n/a Environment Agency 3,040,514 24,546,875 Agricultural, Horticultural Development Board 328,351 0 Marine Management Organisation 0 350,000 Commission for Rural Communities 707,318 128,000 Agricultural Wages Board n/a n/a Agricultural Wages Committee n/a n/a Gangmasters Licensing Authority 0 0 Joint Nature Conservation Committee 0 0 National Forest Company 0 59,404 Consumer Council for Water 00 Seafish 148,697 0 Sustainable Development Commission 356,442 119,696 Kew 1—0 Natural England 0 10,900,000 1 Amount not disclosed for reasons of confidentiality

Thomas Docherty: To ask the Secretary of State for May 2010 in (i) the Department, and (ii) each NDPB is Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how much her set out in the following table. The NDPBs recorded here Department has spent on redundancy costs since May are DEFRA’s Executive NDPBs. 2010. [67543] Please note that the Commission for Rural Communities Richard Benyon [holding answer 19 July 2011]: The and the Sustainable Development Commission have amount spent on (a) compulsory redundancy payments closed since May 2010, while Food From Britain closed and (b) voluntary redundancy payments and compensation in 2009. The Agricultural Wages Board and the Agricultural paid to staff leaving on voluntary exit schemes since Wages Committee do not employ any staff.

£ Amount spent on compulsory redundancy Amount spent on voluntary redundancy payments Department/NDPB payments and voluntary exit scheme compensation

DEFRA (including the Executive agencies) 248,483 28,651,496 Food From Britain n/a n/a Environment Agency 3,040,514 24,546,875 Agricultural, Horticultural Development Board 328,351 0 Marine Management Organisation 0 350,000 Commission for Rural Communities 707,318 128,000 Agricultural Wages Board n/a n/a Agricultural Wages Committee n/a n/a Gangmasters Licensing Authority 0 0 Joint Nature Conservation Committee 0 0 National Forest Company 0 59,404 Consumer Council for Water 00 Seafish 148,697 0 Sustainable Development Commission 356,442 119,696 Kew 1—0 Natural England 0 10,900,000 1 Amount not disclosed for reasons of confidentiality 53W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 54W

Farming Regulation Task Force that if others gain knowledge of their quota ownership (or possibly lack of ownership), it may potentially affect business agreements they might enter into. John McDonnell: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (1) when she The commercial sensitivity and personal nature of expects to respond to the recommendations of the the information also prevents the provision of the Independent Farming Regulation Task Force; [69115] information. In addition, a significant proportion of quota is held by producer organisations themselves on (2) what discussions she has had with ministerial behalf of their members or other individuals. The actual colleagues in the Department for Business, Innovation beneficial holder of the quota is known by the producer and Skills conducting the Employment Law Review on organisation involved but this information is not routinely the Independent Farming Regulation Task Force’s collected by fisheries administrations. As such it is not recommendations on reform of the Gangmasters possible to determine to what extent these holdings may Licensing Authority; [69116] be held by those who are not-active fishermen. (3) what discussions she has had with (a) trades An exercise was carried out in 2007 to look at the unions and (b) the Association of Labour Providers details on the ownership of the quota allocation units on the Independent Farming Regulation Task Force’s held by Producer Organisation (PO) on behalf of others. recommendations on reform of the Gangmasters This indicated that for the total holdings of FQA units Licensing Authority. [69117] in the UK, the proportion held by Pos themselves rather than linked to individual vessels was 18.6%. Of this, Mr Paice: The Government are considering the 3.1% was being held by the PO itself on behalf of its recommendations made by the independent task force members as a collective asset, 5.5% on behalf of individual on farming regulation and will publish an initial response active members of the PO, 4.4% held on behalf of this autumn and a final response early in 2012. The vessel agents or salesmen, 2.0% held as part of Community response will take account of other reviews, including Quota Schemes and 3.5% on behalf of other types of the employment law review. owner. DEFRA officials are working closely with the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (BIS) Fisheries: Foreign Nationals on the review of Government enforcement of workplace rights, which forms part of the employment law review. Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for The independent task force recommended changes in Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many respect of Gangmasters Licensing Authority (GLA) foreign fishing vessels with historical rights of access processes and communications but not on reform of the have access to the six to 12 nautical miles UK coastal authority. These recommendations have been discussed zone. [56421] by the GLA board, on which trade unions, the Association of Labour Providers, DEFRA and BIS are represented. Richard Benyon: Full details of the access arrangements for foreign fishing vessels in the UK six to 12 mile Fisheries coastal zone are set out in Article 17.2 and Annex 1.1 of Council Regulation 2371/2002. Under these arrangements, all fishing vessels from France, Netherlands, Germany, Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for Belgium and Ireland have either full or limited access to Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what proportion some parts of the UK six to 12 mile limits. The Government of the UK fixed quota allocation is held by non-active do not keep records of the number of vessels that fishermen. [60234] actually exercise these rights of access.

Richard Benyon: Information in terms of the holdings Fisheries: Safety of Fixed Quota Allocation (FQA) units by members of each UK fishermen’s Producer Organisations is available Mr Iain Wright: To ask the Secretary of State for as part of the information released each year as part of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if she will take the process of allocating the overall UK quota out to steps to safeguard the under 10 metre fishing fleet in various parts of the industry. The latest information (a) the North East and (b) Hartlepool; and if she will available is on holdings as at 1 January 2010 used to make a statement. [68029] distribute quotas for 2010, and it is available from the Marine Management Organisation’s internet site at: Richard Benyon: The proposals set out in the recently http://www.marinemanagement.org.uk/fisheries/management/ conducted consultation on domestic fisheries management quotas.htm reforms seek to create a more profitable, sustainable, Similar information for the position as at 1 January unified fishing industry in the long term, which will 2011 is currently being finalised as part of final benefit the under 10 metre fishing fleet. allocations of quotas for 2011. The responses to the consultation are currently being These reports do not include details of holdings by analysed, and will be used to inform future policy non-active fishermen. Such information would include decisions. Any decisions that are made will be for the personal data as defined in Section 1(1) of the Data benefit of the industry as a whole and with due regard Protection Act as information relating to living persons, to the impacts on the under 10 metre fleet fishermen and thus disclosure would breach the principles within around the coast, including in the North East, and the act. In addition, the information requested is effectively specifically Hartlepool. details of a commercial (or personal) asset held by the The Government’s response to the consultation will owner and is thus regarded as commercially sensitive, in be published at the end of September. 55W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 56W

Food: Procurement Mr Paice: I refer the hon. Member to the answer given by the Under-Secretary of State for Transport, Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for my hon. Friend the Member for Hemel Hempstead Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if she will (Mike Penning), on 19 July 2011, Official Report, consider encouraging local authority care homes to column 956W. comply with Government Buying Standards for the Members: Correspondence public procurement of food and food services. [68106] Sir Alan Beith: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Paice: Although Government Buying Standards Environment, Food and Rural Affairs when she plans (GBS) will only be mandatory for central Government, to reply to the letters of (a) 24 May 2011 and (b) GBS is also being promoted to the wider public sector 22 June 2011 from the Rt. hon. Member for Berwick- including local authorities, who control procurement in upon-Tweed to the Parliamentary-Under Secretary of many public bodies care homes and schools. There is a State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, concerning balance to be struck between the need to ensure food the over-breeding of low-valued ponies. [68804] procured by the public sector is healthier and more sustainable and the need for local public sector bodies Mr Paice: I replied to the right hon. Member’s letters to make their own decisions on how best to spend the to Lord Henley on 27 July 2011. This was due to the public money that they are allocated. Given the current high volume of correspondence received during this period. financial pressures on all public expenditure it is essential Milk: Prices that the measures are affordable and deliver real benefits in terms of sustainability and improved nutrition. Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for There are many examples of public bodies finding Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what assessment good, healthy and sustainable food, that is no more she has made of European Commission data on farm expensive, right on their doorstep and I know that many gate milk prices in pence per litre in EU member states; people would like to see this happen more. In keeping and if she will make a statement. [68426] with the Government’s localism approach, we want to give people and communities power to make changes Mr Paice: The milk price in pence per litre in EU on issues like this that are important to them. We would member states recorded by the European Commission like to see all public sector bodies procuring at least to for the last five years is given as follows (some data are GBS standards and we will encourage them to do so. unavailable). But many people want to go further than this, and our Recent monthly figures from the Commission show approach to public sector procurement has been designed that the UK has the lowest average raw milk price of all to support them. We want local people to be able EU member states. to express their own preferences and for their voices to be heard. Member state 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 LIFE Austria 21.03 24.01 31.76 26.66 28.10 Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Belgium 18.96 24.48 26.14 21.76 26.93 Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (1) what discussions Bulgaria — — — 23.30 24.42 she has had with the European Commission on the Czech Rep. 18.89 20.83 26.86 20.78 24.99 eligibility for the next programming round of LIFE+ of Cyprus 28.35 29.23 40.70 46.90 45.34 the Overseas Countries and Territories of the EU member Denmark 20.35 22.37 30.42 25.30 28.22 states; [68860] Estonia 17.08 19.01 24.26 19.35 24.51 (2) what discussions she has had with her (a) French Finland 25.21 26.53 37.55 36.39 32.83 and (b) Dutch counterparts about opening up the next France 20.55 22.27 29.69 27.43 27.35 programming round of LIFE+ to the Overseas Countries Germany 18.93 23.07 27.36 21.79 27.36 and Territories of the EU member states; [68861] Greece 24.55 27.32 35.36 34.61 32.99 (3) what her policy is on the opening up of the next Hungary 16.58 20.17 26.27 19.73 23.03 programming round of LIFE+ to British Overseas Ireland 19.11 24.72 29.06 22.74 27.19 Territories. [68862] Italy 22.52 24.25 30.62 28.08 29.89 Latvia 16.50 18.66 22.55 17.16 22.21 Richard Benyon: The European Commission is yet to Lithuania 14.30 17.24 20.75 16.78 22.24 make its proposal for a new EU financial instrument for Luxembourg 21.40 25.52 30.78 24.66 26.32 the environment. Discussions with the European Malta — — — — — Commission or other member states are not currently Netherlands 19.52 23.22 29.40 24.61 27.77 planned in advance of seeing the European Commission’s proposal. Once this is available we will develop a UK Poland 17.85 20.88 24.74 20.38 24.17 position. Portugal 19.23 22.38 29.71 26.67 25.34 Romania — — — 18.71 21.18 Livestock: Transport Slovakia 17.58 20.49 26.38 19.26 24.15 Slovenia 18.55 19.79 27.03 23.80 23.74 Graeme Morrice: To ask the Secretary of State for Spain 20.80 25.00 31.00 26.82 25.98 Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if she will bring Sweden 20.12 22.12 29.42 24.04 29.74 forward proposals to amend the Harbours, Docks and United 17.98 20.80 25.78 23.71 24.65 Piers Clauses Act 1847 to allow the owner of a port to Kingdom refuse its use for the live export of animals; and if she Source: will make a statement. [68857] DG Agri and DairyCo 57W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 58W

UK dairy farmers are among the most efficient and Third Sector competitive in Europe. I have challenged the industry to capture more of domestic and export markets given the Thomas Docherty: To ask the Secretary of State for low farmgate price paid relative to our European Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what the name is competitors. of each charity and voluntary organisation Ministers Nature Conservation: Voluntary Work in her Department have visited since May 2010. [67542] Richard Benyon [holding answer 19 July 2011]: DEFRA Mary Creagh: To ask the Secretary of State for already publishes a list of ministerial meetings with all Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what funding her external organisations, including charities and voluntary Department plans to provide to (a) the Muck In4Life organisations. This is published on a quarterly basis campaign and (b) any other element of the Change4Life and is placed on the DEFRA website. campaign in each of the next four years. [61555]

Richard Benyon: We have made initial commitments Trees: Disease Control to fund some community activity for Muck In4Life in 2011-12, but have not made any commitments on any Mark Pritchard: To ask the Secretary of State for other element of the Change4Life campaign over the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what steps she is next four years as this would be led by the Department taking to prevent the spread of sudden oak death in of Health. It is possible that some further funding may English woodlands. [68238] be available in the future, but in keeping with the principles of and the commitments of the Mr Paice: I refer my hon. Friend to the reply given to Natural Environment White Paper we will be looking to my hon. Friend the Member for Tiverton and Honiton promote Muck In4Life using partner networks and (Neil Parish) on 3 May 2011, Official Report, column 611W. sponsorship. Plants: Diseases

Mark Pritchard: To ask the Secretary of State for ATTORNEY-GENERAL Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if she will put in place measures to improve the protection of indigenous Departmental Consultants plants from diseases and pests borne on foreign plant imports. [68061] Austin Mitchell: To ask the Attorney-General how many senior civil servants in the Law Officers’ Departments Mr Paice: Under the EU Plant Health Directive, the at each grade had worked for PricewaterhouseCoopers, UK implements a series of measures to prevent the Ernst and Young,Deloitte or KPMG immediately prior entry of plant pests and diseases. These include the to taking up their appointment in each of the last four requirement to inspect plant imports and for consignments years; what consultancy agreements these Departments of plants to be accompanied by a phytosanitary certificate. had with those firms in each such year; and how many These certificates confirm that the exporting country consultants from those firms have advised those has attested to the health of the plants and that they Departments in each such year. [68965] meet the EU’s import requirements. Despite this regime of inspection and other statutory requirements, there The Solicitor-General: During the last four years the are frequent findings of pests and diseases in imports Serious Fraud Office (SFO) recruited one individual both from within and outside the EU. The weaknesses directly into the senior civil service (SCS). This person of the current regime in providing adequate protection had worked for Pricewaterhouse Coopers and was recruited for the UK and other member states from plant pests at SCS1. and disease has prompted a review of the EU’s plant health regime, which we are actively supporting. No other individuals previously working for PricewaterhouseCoopers (PWC), Ernst and Young,Deloitte The UK and other member states are pressing for or KPMG have been employed by the Law Officers’ improved controls so that import inspections are focused Departments at SCS grade during this period of time. on trades presenting the highest risks, and so that new trades, particularly those involving plants for planting, Deloitte were engaged by the Attorney-General’s are subject to assessment of risk in advance of import. Office for consultancy work in connection with the Other issues, such as the tightening of the concession Fraud Review and establishment of the National Fraud which allows travellers to import limited quantities of Authority in the financial year ending 31 March 2008. plants and plant material for personal use are also Two consultants were engaged. under consideration. We anticipate these will be consulted KPMG LLP were engaged by the Treasury Solicitor’s on next year after the EU publishes its draft proposals Department (TSol) for consultancy work on the for change. development of the TSol Finance and Vision Strategy To strengthen controls at our borders, there is also a in the financial year ending 31 March 2009. One lead programme of research at the Food and Environment consultant was engaged; it is not recorded whether any Research Agency to improve methods of detection of or how many consultants worked in support of the lead pests in consignments of plants. This includes the consultant. development of quick test kits to detect the DNA of In addition, PWC and Ernst and Young have been plant pathogens and the use of acoustic technology to engaged by Tsol to provide expert witness reports for detect insect larvae within the stems of plants. eight cases in the last four years. 59W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 60W

One other individual from PWC undertook some The CPS, like all Government Departments, operates consultancy work at the SFO for four months in December a carefully controlled policy under the Public Records 2008 to March 2009. Acts, which ensures that paperwork is retained for as long as is necessary, but no longer. Since 2003, some of Departmental Correspondence the case files relating to police officers or journalists as defendants will therefore have been destroyed in accordance Austin Mitchell: To ask the Attorney-General how with their departmental policy in relation to the retention many letters the Law Officers’ Departments received and destruction of files. from hon. Members in June 2011. [68765] John Mann: To ask the Attorney-General how many The Solicitor-General: The information requested is requests to prosecute journalists for offences related to contained in the following table: receiving information from police sources the Crown Prosecution Service discussed with the Metropolitan MPs letters in June 2011 Police in (a) 2004 and (b) 2005. [68669] Number

CPS 35 The Solicitor-General: The Crown Prosecution Service’s TSol 1 (CPS) case management system records cases under HMCPSI 0 defendants’ names. It does not specifically identify the SFO 5 occupation of defendants. Defendants’ occupations could AGO 29 be identified in every case only by examining individual case files, which would incur a disproportionate cost. Departmental Telephone Services

Nia Griffith: To ask the Attorney-General how much FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE funding he has allocated to each telephone helpline operated by the Law Officers’ Departments in 2011-12; Bahrain: Historic Buildings and what the purpose is of each such helpline. [68545] Rushanara Ali: To ask the Secretary of State for The Solicitor-General: The only dedicated helpline Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whether he has operated by the Law Officers’ Departments is a telephone made representations to the Government of Bahrain inquiry line operated by the Bona Vacantia Division of on the recent demolition of mosques, places of worship TSol. This deals with general inquiries and provides and places of cultural and historical significance in that information and advice to callers on Bona Vacantia country. [68592] cases. There is no separate budget to run this inquiry line. The cost is subsumed within the general running of Alistair Burt: We continue to make representations the Bona Vacantia Division which is itself funded through to the Government of Bahrain related to human rights the revenue it generates. abuses. However, although we are aware that some structures were removed during the unrest, we have not Prosecutions made specific representations about alleged demolition of mosques, places of worship or places of cultural and John Mann: To ask the Attorney-General on what historical significance. dates the Director of Public Prosecutions has discussed possible prosecutions of police officers or journalists Bosnia and Herzegovina: War Crimes with (a) other staff of the Crown Prosecution Service, (b) Ministers, (c) the Metropolitan Police and (d) Rushanara Ali: To ask the Secretary of State for other interested parties since 2003. [68659] Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whether he has had recent discussions with representatives of the victims The Solicitor-General: There are regular and frequent of the 1995 Srebrenica massacre. [68690] meetings and discussions between the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) and Crown Prosecution Service Mr Lidington: The Government’s most recent contact (CPS) staff, police and Ministers on a range of issues. with representatives of the victims of the Srebrenica Case-related meetings are not recorded in a way that massacre took place on 11 July in Srebrenica at the allows the interrogation of the central records to identify commemoration marking the 16th anniversary of the the defendant’s occupation. Cases might also be discussed genocide there. The Secretary of State for Foreign and as part of meetings on other topics. Commonwealth Affairs, my right hon. Friend the Member The CPS’s case management system records cases for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague) asked my noble under defendants’ names. It does not specifically identify Friend Baroness Warsi, Minister without Portfolio, to the occupation of defendants. While the CPS’s special represent the UK. Her presence at the event (which she crime division deals with serious cases, including those also attended on behalf of the Government in July involving police officers as defendants, cases involving 2010) underlines the importance the UK attaches to more minor allegations against police officers may be marking the anniversary, to honouring the victims and dealt with by any of the CPS’s area offices throughout to expressing sympathy with their friends and families. England and Wales. Cases involving journalists could In addition, the Prime Minister issued a statement also be dealt with by any of the area offices. Defendants’ marking the occasion. He reiterated his conviction that occupations could be identified in every case only by the world must never again allow such atrocities to examining individual case files. occur unopposed. 61W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 62W

The UK has committed considerable programme funding toughest possible resolution at the UN General Assembly to Srebrenica-related projects since 2000, including which we hope will repeat calls for Burma to release all contributing to construction of the memorial complex political prisoners and work towards national reconciliation. in Srebrenica, support to the International Commission for Missing Persons and legal secondments to the team Departmental Redundancy in the Bosnia and Herzegovina (BiH) State Prosecutor’s Office dealing with Srebrenica-related crimes. My noble Mr Redwood: To ask the Secretary of State for Friend Baroness Warsi visited partners in British embassy Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how much (a) his project activity relating to Srebrenica during her visit. Department and (b) each non-departmental body for The Foreign Secretary and I have also taken the opportunity which he is responsible has spent on redundancies since to learn more about this work during our own visits to May 2010. [66334] Sarajevo over the past year. There has been considerable progress towards regional Mr Bellingham: The Foreign and Commonwealth reconciliation in recent years, and many of those responsible Office (FCO) plans to reduce its work force over the for war crimes in the Balkans have already faced justice. next four years in line with our settlement in the The recent arrest of Ratko Mladic underlines the comprehensive spending review. This has not required international community’s commitment to bringing to any spending on compulsory redundancies which we justice those responsible for war crimes. While this hope to avoid through careful work force planning and judicial process can never compensate the bereaved for voluntary exit rounds. The FCO will only consider the losses they continue to bear, the arrest of Mladic, making redundancies when its requirements for members and the subsequent arrest of the last remaining International of staff to carry out work of a particular kind or at a Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia indictee, particular location have reduced, ceased or are expected Goran Hadzic, should mark a turning point for all the to do so. We have run four voluntary exit rounds since countries of the Western Balkans and the start of a new May last year. We expect to run a further two voluntary chapter of cooperation and reconciliation. exit rounds this year and further rounds over the spending review period. None of the non-departmental public British Nationals Abroad: Death bodies for which we are responsible have made compulsory redundancies. Bridget Phillipson: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs when his Department Mike Gapes: To ask the Secretary of State for plans to finalise the new Memorandum of Understanding Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how much his on the deaths of UK citizens abroad. [64230] Department has spent on redundancy costs since May 2010. [67456] Mr Jeremy Browne: The National Policing Improvement Agency (NPIA) is co-ordinating drafting of the Mr Bellingham [holding answer 19 July 2011]: The Memorandum of Understanding (MoU), in respect of Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) plans to both the deceased and their family when a British reduce its work force over the next four years in line national dies as a result of murder, manslaughter or with our settlement in the comprehensive spending infanticide abroad. The MoU clarifies the role of the review. Foreign and Commonwealth Office, Association of Chief This has not required any spending on compulsory Police Officers (ACPO), Victim Support National Homicide redundancies which we hope to avoid through careful Service and Coroners Society of England and Wales. I work force planning and voluntary exit rounds. The hope it will be available for agreement by the various FCO will only consider making redundancies when its signatories within the next month. requirements for members of staff to carry out work of The NPIA will issue the final version for signature. a particular kind or at a particular location have reduced, ceased or are expected to do so. We have run four Burma: Political Prisoners voluntary exit rounds since May last year. We expect to run a further two voluntary exit rounds this year and Graeme Morrice: To ask the Secretary of State for further rounds over the spending review period. Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what steps he is taking to help secure the freedom of political prisoners Departmental Telephone Services in Burma; and if he will make a statement. [69144] Nia Griffith: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Jeremy Browne: The immediate and unconditional Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how much release of Burma’s estimated 2,000 political prisoners is funding he has allocated to each telephone helpline an important benchmark by which the UK judges the operated by his Department in 2011-12; and what the Burmese Government. We are encouraged that Aung purpose is of each such helpline. [68546] San Suu Kyi met the Burmese President on 19 August and we have called for tangible progress from this Mr Lidington: The Foreign and Commonwealth Office dialogue including the release of all political prisoners. (FCO)’s Consular staff in London and overseas regularly Our ambassador to Rangoon regularly raises with answer phone calls from British Nationals seeking our the Burmese authorities the need for the release of all help, including through our 24 hour Global Response political prisoners. Officials pressed the Burmese President’s Centre. Consular Directorate also provides the following Chief Political Adviser on 18 August to take such telephone helplines: action. The Government also repeatedly raise this issue Travel Advice telephone line—This service offers access to during discussions with our international partners and Foreign Office travel advice to those who are unable to view it in the UN. We are currently working to secure the online, or who wish to inquire in person. The service is currently 63W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 64W provided by a commercial partner and we have budgeted £180,000 Mr Bellingham: The Secretary of State for Foreign for 2011-12. We continue to improve our online travel advice, and and Commonwealth Affairs, my right hon. Friend the hope to reduce this cost by making online advice easier to use. Member for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague), has had Overseas Crises—In a crisis affecting British Nationals overseas discussions with counterparts on a range of issues the FCO may activate a call handling capacity to take calls from including the transition to low carbon. The Foreign and affected members of the public, either in-house or outsourced to Commonwealth Office (FCO) is working hard to help a commercial partner or the police. This depends on the scale of the incident. These call handlers usually respond to calls to a create the political conditions in key countries for a dedicated emergency hotline number. Funding for operational rapid and efficient global low carbon transition. Alongside costs is not allocated in advance, but these costs can be claimed UK Trade and Investment, the FCO is also championing for from the Treasury held Emergency Disaster Reserve should British companies that develop and export innovative the total costs of our crisis response surpass £150,000. green technologies around the world. Legalisation, and Births, Deaths and Marriages Inquiries—This service is currently being provided by a commercial partner, to European External Action Service enable the Legalisation Office staff to process documents as efficiently as possible and ensure calls are always answered promptly. The budget for 2011-12 is £80,000. Within the same contract, Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for there is an inquiry line for British Nationals looking to register a Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what discussions birth or death or with questions about getting married or arranging a civil partnership overseas. he has had with his EU counterparts on whether climate change and energy security should be a priority Passport Inquiry line—Between 1 June 2009 and 1 April 2011, for the European External Action Service. [68115] Consular Directorate employed Careline, a UK based company, to provide a telephone inquiry and tracking service for customers applying for passports overseas. Careline continue to provide this Mr Lidington: On 18 July 2011 the Foreign Affairs service but the contract is now managed by the Identity and Council adopted Conclusions which set out the need Passport Service, an executive agency of the Home Office. The for climate and energy security to be included as part of FCO did not pay for this service; customers are charged direct by the European External Action Service’s role. This was a Careline. Exceptionally, the FCO covered the cost of calls to Careline, from 15 July to 31 July 2011 for customers served by the direct result of a joint request by the Secretary of State Regional Passport Processing Centre in Dusseldorf and from for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, my right hon. 15 July until 31 August for customers served by the Processing Friend the Member for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague), Centre in Washington because of delays in passport production. and his German counterpart. I reinforced this during The final amount of these exceptional costs is not yet known. ongoing discussions with European Union counterparts Consular Directorate provides specific telephone numbers covering the role of the European External Action for certain customers requiring FCO support. These are Service. Progress made by the European External Action regular FCO phone lines manned by Consular staff at Service on these issues will be reviewed at a future no additional cost: Foreign Affairs Council. The Child Abduction Section helpline to answer urgent questions from British Nationals involved in a parental Food: Prices child abduction, residence or contact dispute overseas; The Forced Marriage Unit helpline, for British Nationals Mr Offord: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign who are worried about a possible forced marriage. This and Commonwealth Affairs what assessment his is a joint initiative with the Home Office; A helpline for Department has made of the likely effects of recent MPs wishing to speak to a member of Consular Directorate trends in food prices on the development of popular about constituency cases. uprisings in North Africa and the middle east. [68093] Departmental Visits Abroad Alistair Burt: The Foreign and Commonwealth Office Tessa Munt: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign monitors and conducts analysis on the impact of and Commonwealth Affairs what information his commodity prices to the world economy including in Department publishes on foreign visits to be the North Africa and the middle east region. undertaken by Ministers of his Department; how much North Africa is particularly vulnerable to food price prior notification is provided to external bodies of such volatility, with poor domestic conditions and significant visits; and how such information is publicised. [68558] exposure to international markets. The region is a substantial net importer of wheat and heavily subsidises Mr Lidington: For security and operational reasons, consumption. Food price inflation was one contributory we do not generally comment on or announce visits factor to the Tunisian and Egyptian unrest, and fuelled significantly in advance. The Foreign and Commonwealth discontent across the region. Morocco, Tunisia and Office (FCO) works closely with foreign governments Egypt have all reassured citizens that food and commodity and, where relevant, external organisations in planning subsidies will be maintained amidst the recent unrest. visits. Information about visits is provided through Although allowing Governments to quell immediate press releases and the FCO publishes a retrospective discontent, this brings significant fiscal constraints, shoring quarterly list of ministerial visits on its website. up problems for the future. We believe Governments need to adopt sustainable economic and targeted social Environment Protection: International Cooperation protection policies which deliver long-term benefits for the development of their societies and prospects for Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for their people. Putting these policies in place will need to Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what discussions be carefully sequenced over time especially given the he has held with his international counterparts on the very high expectations of people to see tangible benefits development of low-carbon technologies. [67940] from reforms. 65W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 66W

The major oil exporters in the middle east are well Alistair Burt: We are concerned by Iranian action to guarded against the fiscal pressures of rising food prices. shut down the Baha’i Institute of Higher Education. Food insecurity continues in Yemen,and recent droughts We have raised this issue with the Iranian Charge d’Affaires have turned Iran from a significant wheat exporter to a a number of times, including most recently when I met wheat importer. the Charge on 2 August 2011, requesting an official As part of the Government’s new ‘’Building Stability response to the issue in writing. We will continue to call Overseas Strategy’ (BSOS), an early warning system is on Iran to respect the full and equal rights of its people being developed to anticipate instability and potential regardless of their faith or ethnicity in line with its triggers for conflict. This will allow for early preventive international obligations, and to cease the harassment action as well as rapid response to any incidents. BSOS of the Baha’i community. also seeks to invest in upstream prevention on instability Jerusalem: Religious Freedom by helping to build legitimate institutions in fragile countries. Tony Baldry: To ask the Secretary of State for Greece: Shipping Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what the Government’s policy is on the status of Jerusalem as a Dr Huppert: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign holy city for all faiths. [68664] and Commonwealth Affairs if he will request from his Greek counterpart an explanation of the basis in Alistair Burt: Jerusalem has unique religious significance international law for the actions of the Greek authorities to many different faith groups. Our goal is a secure and in preventing British-registered civilian vessels from universally recognised Israel living alongside a sovereign departing ports in Greece in early July 2011. [67981] and viable Palestinian state, based on the borders of Mr Lidington: We are not aware that any British- 1967, with Jerusalem the future capital of both states. It registered civilian ships were prevented from departing is important that all religions can enjoy the religious ports in Greece in July 2011. The Greek Government sites and practice their religious beliefs in a safe and have publicly stated that their decision to ban the departure secure environment with mutual respect. of Greek or foreign vessels from Greek ports to the The UK attaches great importance to ensuring freedom Gaza naval blockade zone was based on their own of worship for those of all faiths. The Government maritime laws, as well as concerns about security and condemns all instances of violence and discrimination the protection of human life. We do not intend to against individuals and groups because of their faith or request any further explanations. belief. We strongly support the right to freedom of religion or belief as set out in the Universal Declaration Human Rights: Business of Human Rights and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights as well as the full implementation Lisa Nandy: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign of the 1981 United Nations Declaration on the Elimination and Commonwealth Affairs what account the Overseas of all Forms of Intolerance and of Discrimination Business Risk Service will take of the human rights Based on Religion or Belief. situation in countries upon which the service advises UK businesses on risk. [68130] Libya: British Nationals Abroad

Mr Bellingham: Our Overseas Business Risk website Mr Offord: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign which is run jointly by the Foreign and Commonwealth and Commonwealth Affairs what estimate his Office and UK Trade and Investment offers country Department has made of the number of British specific advice to British companies to help them manage nationals in Libya. [68493] political and reputational risks when operating overseas. We intend to develop the website further in order that it Alistair Burt: On the basis of the number of calls we provides context on some of the key issues that business are currently receiving, we estimate that there are fewer may want to consider, such as complying with UK than 100 British nationals in Libya. legislation on Bribery or the potential impact their business activity can have on human rights and how to We continue to advise against all travel to Libya. We avoid adverse impacts as a part of their political and also advise any British nationals currently there to reputational risk management. leave. Since the crisis began, British missions in Tunis We believe that free trade and economic growth promote and Alexandria have assisted over 200 British nationals development and respect for human rights. We encourage who have been able to leave Libya. British businesses to be aware of their potential impacts Libya: Females on human rights. Not only is there a moral imperative to ensure that human rights are respected, we think there is also a strong business case for doing so as an Nicola Blackwood: To ask the Secretary of State for important contribution to stable, healthy and sustainable Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how he will markets. prioritise the participation of women in any discussion on the future of Libya; and if he will make a statement. Iran: Higher Education [68455]

Graeme Morrice: To ask the Secretary of State for Alistair Burt: We will continue to discuss the participation Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whether he has of women with the National Transitional Council. We made representations to the Iranian Government on underline the need to protect their equal rights in law, recent raids on the Baha’i Institute for Higher politics, freedom of movement and education in the Education. [68167] future constitution. 67W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 68W

Nicola Blackwood: To ask the Secretary of State for and President Obama: borders based on 1967 lines with Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what measures his mutually agreed swaps; security for Israel; and the right Department is taking to identify women’s groups and for Palestinians to govern themselves in a sovereign and individuals who should participate in any discussion on contiguous state. We are working hard with our the future of Libya; and if he will make a statement. international partners for a return to negotiations on [68456] this basis. Failure to return to negotiations now puts at risk the Alistair Burt: We are actively seeking to identify long-term prospects for a solution and, in the short women’s groups and individuals and to engage with term, will leave the international community facing them on the future of Libya and their involvement in its difficult choices come September in the UN. Neither development. I chaired a Foreign and Commonwealth Israel nor the Palestinians can afford to let the opportunity Office Eye Witness event on 1 July 2011 with non- for peace slip further from their grasp. governmental organisations and women from both Libya and Tunisia, at which there was discussion of specific Palestinians: British Nationals Abroad issues faced by women in those countries and consideration of the future. We are following up on that event. Graeme Morrice: To ask the Secretary of State for Libya: UN Resolutions Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent discussions he has had with Israeli Government officials concerning Nicola Blackwood: To ask the Secretary of State for the passage of UK citizens to and from Palestine. Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what discussions [68168] he has had on developing a country-specific action plan on UN Security Council Resolution 1325 for Alistair Burt: The Government extend consular assistance Libya; and if he will make a statement. [68454] to British nationals whenever appropriate. The Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) does Alistair Burt: We have regular discussions on a wide not make general representations on another country’s range of issues with the Libyan National Transitional immigration policies or procedures. The Israeli immigration Council (NTC), both bilaterally and through the Libya officials are under no obligation to explain their decisions Contact Group. These discussions include their ‘road to us and, as mentioned in our travel advice, they have map’ and stabilisation plan for the future of Libya. We the right to refuse entry to anyone they wish. The UK’s are discussing the role of women with the NTC Executive immigration authority is similarly protected. representative for women, Dr Salwa al-Daghaili, focussing We are aware of one case in which a British national particularly on how that role is defined in the NTC was asked to sign an undertaking on arrival in Tel Aviv stabilisation plan, and how women’s rights are protected that he would not travel to the west bank without the in the NTC’s Constitutional Declaration. express permission of the Israeli military commander. The UK Government National Action Plan (NAP) In this instance, we determined it was not appropriate on UN Security Council Resolution 1325 Women, Peace to raise this incident with the Israeli authorities at the and Security was revised in November 2010 and contains time. We have not had any further reports of British three pilot bilateral country plans for the Democratic nationals being asked to sign such an undertaking. Republic of Congo, Afghanistan and Nepal. The NAP Were this to become a common occurrence, we would is a changing document and will be reviewed in October. discuss such a policy with the appropriate Israeli authorities. A report will be produced and presented to Parliament If British nations plan to travel to Israel or the through a ministerial statement. Occupied Palestinian Territories, we advise them to read through the travel advice on the FCO’s website, Members: Correspondence which is available at the follow link; http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travel-and-living-abroad/travel- Sir Gerald Kaufman: To ask the Secretary of State for advice-by-country/middle-east-north-africa/israel-occupied Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs when he plans to Those travelling to the Occupied Palestinian Territories answer the letter from the right hon. Member for may also obtain further information from the British Manchester, Gorton of 14 June 2011 regarding Mr S. Consulate-General in Jerusalem before travel. Singh. [68915]

Mr Lidington: The Secretary of State for Foreign and Palestinians: Detainees Commonwealth Affairs, my right hon. Friend the Member for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague) replied to the right Rushanara Ali: To ask the Secretary of State for hon. Member’s letter of 14 June on 21 July. Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will make representations to the Israeli Government to ensure Middle East: Armed Conflict that its treatment of Palestinian children in detention in Israeli jails complies with UN guidelines and Caroline Nokes: To ask the Secretary of State for international standards. [68596] Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what steps the Government is taking to secure negotiations for a two Alistair Burt: The UK remains concerned about the state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. [69019] number of children currently being held in Israeli prisons. We raise our concerns with the Israeli Government Alistair Burt: We continue to push hard for a return about the application of due process and the treatment to negotiations on the basis agreed by the Prime Minister, of Palestinian detainees, including where children are my right hon. Friend the Member for Witney (Mr Cameron) involved, on a frequent basis. 69W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 70W

Most recently our ambassador to Israel has raised persecution. Separate working groups looked at the this issue with the Israeli Ministry of Justice and I issues of: legal recognition of religions; public manifestation raised this during my visit to the region. Our ambassador of religions; apostasy and conversion; and blasphemy. has also raised the issue of Israel’s treatment of Palestinian Foreign and Commonwealth Office officials are currently children with Education Minister Saar and the Ministry looking at how to strengthen our freedom of religion or of Foreign Affairs’ Principal Legal Adviser Daniel Taub. belief policy. The conference identified a number of The hon. Member may be interested to hear that ideas that will now be taken forward in this review, alongside our existing projects, our consulate general in including strengthening the right to freedom of religion Jerusalem has recently secured funding to fund the UK or belief in bilateral human rights strategies and developing Bar Committee for Human Rights to come to the our engagement with a range of religious leaders. Wilton Occupied Palestinian Territories in September 2011 to Park will separately be issuing a summary of the conference, research a report about the treatment of children arrested which will be published shortly at: and detained in the Israeli military court system. http://www.wiltonpark.org.uk We shall continue to raise our concerns with the Israeli authorities and issue statements when appropriate. Saudi Arabia: Armed Forces Palestinians: United Nations Rushanara Ali: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whether he has Graeme Morrice: To ask the Secretary of State for made any representations to the government of Saudi Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what progress has Arabia on (a) the deployment in Bahrain of its been made on discussions with his European counterparts military forces and (b) the date by which such forces on reaching a common European position on UN will be removed. [68593] membership for a Palestinian state. [68008]

Alistair Burt: We discuss the Middle East Peace Process Alistair Burt: The Secretary of State for Foreign and regularly at ministerial and official level with EU Partners. Commonwealth Affairs, my right hon. Friend the Member We continue to believe that the best way to achieve a for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague), and the Saudi lasting solution that delivers a sovereign, independent Foreign Minister met in London on 22 March 2011 and and contiguous Palestinian state alongside a safe and had a constructive discussion on Bahrain. The Secretary secure Israel at peace with its neighbours is through a of State and Prince Saud agreed that the Gulf Co-operation negotiated solution. The EU Foreign Affairs Council Council (GCC) forces, who are in Bahrain at the legitimate conclusions of July 2011 set out the European policy on invitation of the Bahraini Government, should work to the Occupied Palestinian Territories and its hopes for a create the right conditions for a successful dialogue. future Palestinian state. We have made it clear to the Bahraini Government http://www.consilium.europa.eu/uedocs/cms_Data/docs/ that the civil rights of peaceful opposition figures, the pressdata/EN/foraff/123910.pdf legitimate exercise of freedom of expression and peaceful As the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth assembly must be respected. We also expect it to meet Affairs, the right hon. Member for Richmond (Yorks) all its human rights obligations by ensuring its citizens (Mr Hague), said to the house on 19 July 2011, Official can exercise the universal human rights and freedoms to Report, columns 781-83, whatever happens in September, which they are entitled and to which it has committed. we must remember that to have a truly viable Palestinian I have not discussed a timetable for withdrawal of the state in control of its own territory, it is necessary to GCC Peninsula Shield Forces from Bahrain with Prince arrive at that by negotiation. We have reserved our Saud or the Bahraini Government. However, the vast position on the question of recognition. The Secretary majority of the Saudi Arabian National Guard contribution of State discussed it again with European Union colleagues has now withdrawn from Bahrain, without incident. in Brussels recently, and have all agreed that we will reserve our position, partly because it gives us some South Sudan leverage over both Israelis and the Palestinians as we urge them back into talks in the coming weeks and months. That is our focus at the moment. Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what assistance his Religious Freedom Department is providing to the UN mission in South Sudan. [68276] Tony Baldry: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what the conclusions were Mr Bellingham: We worked closely with partners in of the recent Wilton Park conference on religious freedoms the UN Security Council to ensure that the United across the world. [68665] Nations Mission in South Sudan (UNMISS) was given a Chapter VII mandate and that an adequate number of Mr Jeremy Browne: The conference, entitled “Promoting troops were authorised. UNMISS will consist of up to Religious Freedom Around the World”, was attended 7,000 troops and 900 civilian police, as recommended by a range of national and international religious by the UN Secretary-General. We will actively work to leaders, non-governmental organisations, academics, support the mandate and have encouraged the Government parliamentarians and members of the Foreign Secretary’s of South Sudan to do the same. The budget for UNMISS Advisory Group on Human Rights. The conference has yet to be agreed. When it is, the UK will contribute looked at the main theological, cultural, societal and just over 8% of the total, as it does for all UN peacekeeping political drivers behind religious intolerance and missions. 71W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 72W

Sri Lanka Taiwan: EU External Relations

Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what reports he and Commonwealth Affairs what his policy is on an has received on judicial independence in Sri Lanka. economic co-operation agreement between the EU and [68813] Taiwan. [68154]

Alistair Burt: We are aware of reports of increasing Mr Lidington: We value the strong trade links we politicisation of the judiciary and law enforcement agencies. have with Taiwan and are keen to enhance them. The There are persistent allegations that prominent politicians Government support active consideration of practical are able to influence the judicial process. measures to strengthen trade between the EU and Taiwan. Our high commission in Sri Lanka continue to monitor Telephone Answering Machines: Surveillance police and judicial action on high-profile cases, and raise our concerns with the Sri Lankan Government. We regularly encourage the Sri Lankan Government to Steve Baker: To ask the Secretary of State for strengthen democratic checks and balances, including Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what his policy is with respect to the judiciary. in relation to the interception of voicemail by agencies for which he is responsible. [68187] Our high commission funded a local civil society organisation to support the Sri Lankan Ministry of Alistair Burt: Intercept of communications, including Justice’s running of mediation boards at a local level voicemail, is governed in accordance with relevant legislation throughout 2010. These boards provided an alternative (predominantly the Regulation of Investigatory Powers method of resolving minor local disagreements without Act (RIPA) 2000) and oversight is provided by the requiring complainants to go through an expensive Rt. Hon. Sir Paul Kennedy, the Interception of legal process. Some 60% of cases referred to the mediation Communications Commissioner (IoCC), who reports boards were resolved successfully. annually to Parliament. The most recent annual report by the IoCC was laid before Parliament on 30 June this Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for year. Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whether he has any plans to visit Sri Lanka. [68814] Western Sahara: Politics and Government

Alistair Burt: There are no current plans for ministerial Jeremy Corbyn: To ask the Secretary of State for visits to Sri Lanka. The Secretary of State for Defence, Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent my right hon. Friend the Member for North Somerset discussions he has had with the (a) Government of (Dr Fox) most recently visited Sri Lanka in July 2011, Morocco, (b) Government of Algeria and (c) United and I visited Colombo and Jaffna in February 2011. Nations on the future governance and security of the Western Sahara; and if he will make a statement. Sri Lanka: Arrests [69084]

Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Alistair Burt: The Secretary of State for Foreign and Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what reports he Commonwealth Affairs, my right hon. Friend the Member has received on the arrest of a British citizen in July for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague) met his Moroccan 2011 in Sri Lanka in relation to a Channel 4 counterpart, Taieb Fassi Fihri, on 10 March 2011 where they discussed a range of issues including the future of programme. [68815] Western Sahara. I visited both Morocco and Algeria in April this year where I raised the need for a political Alistair Burt: Officials at our high commission in Sri solution to the disputed territory’s status in the context Lanka provided consular assistance to the British national of April’s United Nations Security Council negotiations referred to by my hon. Friend, following notification on on MINURSO’s operations. Our ambassadors to Morocco 5 July 2011 of his detention in Sri Lanka. This included and Algeria also discuss Western Sahara at a senior visiting him to ensure that his welfare needs were being level with Moroccan and Algerian authorities. met and that he was being treated in line with internationally accepted standards. Consular officials also maintained UK officials at the UN meet regularly with other regular contact with his family in the UK. He was members of the Group of Friends of Western Sahara to released without charge on 2 August 2011. discuss the future of Western Sahara. They are also in contact with the Secretary-General’s Personal Envoy, Ambassador Christopher Ross and the UN’s Department Surveillance of Peacekeeping Operations. Ambassador Ross last briefed the Group of Friends on 27 July 2011. There are no Steve Baker: To ask the Secretary of State for plans to make a statement at this time. Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how many (a) voice, (b) email and (c) web interceptions were carried Zimbabwe: Politics and Government out by agencies for which he is responsible in each month of the year to June 2011. [68188] Mr Evennett: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent Alistair Burt: It is the policy of successive Governments assessment he has made of the economic and political not to comment on security and intelligence matters. situation in Zimbabwe. [67374] 73W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 74W

Mr Bellingham: There has been relatively little further Lynne Featherstone: No records are held of meeting progress on the ground since the last assessment I requests that have been declined by either a Minister provided on this matter to you on 9 February 2011, directly or by the Department on their behalf. There is Official Report, column 261W. currently no intention to keep such records. However, I am encouraged that South Africa and the Southern African Development Community (SADC) Equality and Human Rights Commission: Trade Unions have continued to work with the Zimbabwean parties to ensure the necessary reforms are completed so that Mr Raab: To ask the Minister for Women and elections, when held, do not see a repeat of the violence Equalities how many staff at the Equality and Human of 2008. So far, an agreed roadmap towards such elections Rights Commission were entitled to work (a) full-time has not appeared. But as confirmed at last week’s as trade union representatives and (b) part-time on SADC summit in Luanda, it remains the intended trade union activities in the latest period for which outcome of this work. figures are available; how many such staff received a Until the conditions have been created for credible salary greater than £25,900 per year; and what the total and properly monitored elections, the Inclusive Government cost to the public purse was of employing such staff on continue to offer the most credible means of transforming such duties. [65984] Zimbabwe and we continue to encourage the whole Government to show a clear commitment to the reforms Lynne Featherstone [holding answer 13 July 2011]: that the Zimbabwean people demanded in March 2008. The Equality and Human Rights Commission (The Commission) is an arm’s length body; the following is based on information it has provided: WOMEN AND EQUALITIES The Commission has: (a) One member of staff currently working as a full-time trade Departmental Consultants union representative, funded by the Commission for three days per week and by the relevant trade union for two days per week; Austin Mitchell: To ask the Minister for Women and and Equalities how many senior civil servants in the (b) No staff working part-time on trade union activities. Government Equalities Office at each grade had No member of staff working as a trade union worked for PricewaterhouseCoopers, Ernst & Young, representative receives a salary greater than £25,900. Deloitte or KPMG immediately prior to taking up their appointment in each year since the Office’s The cost of employing the full-time member of staff inception; what consultancy agreements the office had on trade union duties is £24,960 annual salary plus with those firms in each such year; and how many £7,558 on costs comprising pension payments and national consultants from those firms have advised the Office in insurance contributions. each such year. [68963] The total cost to the public purse is therefore £32,518.

Lynne Featherstone: The Government Equalities Office Government Equalities Office has neither employed any senior civil servants who worked for PricewaterhouseCoopers, Ernst & Young, Deloitte or KPMG immediately prior to taking up their Chris Ruane: To ask the Minister for Women and appointment, nor contracted any consultancy agreements Equalities on how many occasions a request for a with those firms, since its creation as a separate Department meeting by an hon. Member of each political party has in October 2007. been refused by (a) a Minister in the Government Equalities Office (GEO) directly and (b) the GEO on Departmental Responsibilities behalf of a Minister since May 2010. [64429]

Chris Ruane: To ask the Minister for Women and Lynne Featherstone: No records are held of meeting Equalities how many meetings she has had with hon. requests that have been declined by either a Minister Members of each political party since May 2010. directly or by the Government Equalities Office on their [67165] behalf. Lynne Featherstone: The Minister for Women and Third Sector Equalities meets with hon. Members on a regular basis, as part of the ongoing commitment to the work of the coalition Government. The Government Equalities Office Steve McCabe: To ask the Minister for Women and is part of the Home Office and, as such, we have Equalities what the name is of each charity and provided the figures for ministerial meetings across the voluntary organisation visited by Ministers in the whole Home Office. Government Equalities Office since 12 May 2010. Conservative: 41 [67672] Labour: 9 Lynne Featherstone [holding answer 19 July 2011]: Liberal Democrats: 4. Since May 2010 the Minister for Women and Equalities, Chris Ruane: To ask the Minister for Women and my right hon. Friend the Member for Maidenhead Equalities if she will consider keeping data on the (Mrs May), has visited the following charitable or voluntary number of times (a) she and (b) officials of the organisations: Government Equalities Office have declined a request Croydon Rape Crisis Centre for a meeting from an hon. Member of each political Haven Sexual Assault Referral Centre based at the Royal party. [67188] London Hospital, Whitechapel 75W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 76W

I have visited the following organisations: Air Force: Military Bases Action Aid Anawim Women’s Community Project Sir Menzies Campbell: To ask the Secretary of State Lesbian and Gay Foundation for Defence which Ministers from other Government Link (British transport lesbian gay and transgender support departments (a) he and (b) other Ministers in his network) Department met in relation to the RAF basing review; Manchester Action on Street Health and what the date was of each such meeting. [68584] National Stalking Helpline Dr Fox: I meet with fellow Ministers from other Solace Government Departments on a regular basis, including Sparkle weekly at Cabinet, and I have discussed the Defence Stop Hate basing review with a number of them. I also discussed Survivors Manchester the basing review on a number of occasions with ministerial Women for Women colleagues in the Ministry of Defence, and the Scottish Women’s Business Forum Government including the First Minister for Scotland. Working Mums. Sir Menzies Campbell: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what estimate he has made of the training value per flying hour of aircraft stationed at (a) RAF DEFENCE Leuchars and (b) RAF Lossiemouth; and if he will make a statement. [68589] 3 Commando Brigade Nick Harvey: All RAF flying sorties in the UK can provide a number of training opportunities such as Alison Seabeck: To ask the Secretary of State for aircraft handling or combat capability. The point of Defence pursuant to the oral answer of 4 July 2011, origin does not therefore determine the training value Official Report, column 1215, on French and UK of the sortie. armed forces, what plans he has for the future of 3 Commando Brigade. [68503] Aircraft Carriers Nick Harvey: Decisions taken in the Strategic Defence and Security Review will reduce the Royal Marines’ Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for headcount by around 650 posts from its existing level of Defence whether the jet blast deflectors for the Queen around 7,200 (a lower percentage cut than the Army, Elizabeth Class Aircraft carriers have been redesigned Navy or RAF are now facing) but these posts are not for the Joint Strike Fighter-C variant. [68440] being taken from the 3 Commando Brigade headcount. The Brigade will certainly continue to exist and it will Peter Luff: The design of Jet Blast Deflectors is one continue to contain the Brigade Headquarters and three of the factors being considered as part of our Carrier commando groups plus supporting elements. Variant (CV) conversion investigations, which are expected to conclude in late 2012. What has changed is the planned scale of advanced theatre entry, where we no longer plan to be able to land The US is currently trialling their Jet Blast Deflector the full Brigade ashore early and sustain it from the sea, design with the CV Joint Strike Fighter to ensure but rather to restrict this advanced capability to one compatibility; we will learn from their results. commando group—around 1,800 personnel, which will be maintained at high readiness. Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence whether the Queen Elizabeth Class carriers Afghanistan: Peacekeeping Operations will be equipped with electro-magnetic catapults and traps. [68441] Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence pursuant to the answer of 6 July 2011, Official Peter Luff: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I Report, column 52W, on unmanned air vehicles, what gave on 10 March 2011, Official Report, column 1247W information his Department provided to (a) the Prime to the right hon. Member for Coventry North East Minister and (b) the Cabinet Office in advance of the (Mr Ainsworth). Prime Minister’s statement in December 2010 that over the previous 29 months the UK’s drone fleet had killed Armed Forces: Alcoholic Drinks 124 insurgents in Afghanistan. [67903] Gemma Doyle: To ask the Secretary of State for Dr Fox [holding answer 19 July 2011]: Iamnot Defence what steps he has taken to address alcohol aware that during the Prime Minister’s visit to Afghanistan abuse among members and ex-members of the armed in December 2010 he made any reference to the number forces. [69147] of insurgents killed by UK drones. Comprehensive figures are not recorded because of the immense difficulty Mr Robathan: The armed forces run robust programmes and risks that would be involved in collecting robust designed to raise awareness and promote the message of data. Prior to the visit the Ministry of Defence briefed sensible drinking. These programmes address all serving on the agreement to double the UK’s Reaper Remotely personnel; there are also additional measures in place to Piloted Aircraft System capability and the state of the advise Commanding Officers of the potential danger to military campaign. their people. 77W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 78W

Individual consumption limits and the sale of alcohol Peter Luff: While no specific in service date has been are regulated, particularly, but not only, when personnel set for the UK Joint Combat Aircraft, we will be able to are serving operationally. These controls are supported deploy the aircraft from the carrier by 2020. by disciplinary measures. Individuals identified as being at risk receive counselling and welfare support. More serious cases are treated Armed Forces: Suicide through specialist medical and psychological treatment and rehabilitation, including where appropriate as Gemma Doyle: To ask the Secretary of State for in-patients. Defence how many suicides among service personnel The Services are developing holistic programmes as there have been in each year since 2000. [69151] part of an overarching healthy lifestyle strategy, including firm guidance on avoiding alcohol abuse and the Mr Robathan: The following table lists those deaths encouragement of sensible drinking. between 2000 and 2010 (the latest date for which data is When a Serviceman or woman leaves the armed available) for coroner confirmed suicides or open verdict forces they are given a range of literature including deaths. material on alcohol and drug awareness and are able to draw on the support of the Veterans Welfare Service for Confirmed suicides or open verdict the rest of their lives. 2000 36 2001 16 Armed Forces: Deployment 2002 15 2003 25 Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for 2004 20 Defence how many (a) regular and (b) volunteer 2005 22 reserves of each rank in each of the armed forces were 2006 11 stationed in (i) Scotland, (ii) England, (iii) Wales, (iv) 2007 10 Northern Ireland and (v) overseas in each of the last 10 2008 9 years. [68676] 2009 10 2010 5 Mr Robathan: Information for regular armed forces personnel, by service, rank, and geographical area will be placed in the Library of the House. This information BAE Systems is not available before 2007, as prior to the introduction of the Joint Personnel Administration such data was Gavin Williamson: To ask the Secretary of State for not held. The information for reserve personnel is not Defence how much his Department paid to BAE held in the format requested. Systems in each financial year since 2005-06. [67957]

Armed Forces: Food Peter Luff: Payments made by the Ministry of Defence (MOD) to BAE Systems since 2005-06 are shown in the Mr Scott: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence following table: what steps his Department is taking to encourage Payments to BAE Systems greater use of UK-based food suppliers to provide £ billion supplies for the armed forces. [67310] 2005-06 2.4 Peter Luff: European Union procurement legislation 2006-07 2.7 precludes public bodies from discriminating in favour 2007-08 3.0 of domestic food suppliers. However, Ministry of Defence 2008-09 3.3 officials are involved in a number of initiatives to support 2009-10 3.9 the British farming community and increase the volume 2010-11 3.3 of British produce purchased, by working with, for Note: example, the Agriculture and Horticulture Development Figures are at current prices and exclude VAT. Board, Red Meat Industry Forum and British farming The figure for 2010-11 is provisional and will be industry representatives. finalised in time for the publication of UK Defence Statistics in late September. The percentage of UK-produced goods fluctuates as a result of seasonality and value for money incentives. The payments reported have been extracted from the Some products are manufactured using a number of MOD’s central contracts database on which is recorded ingredients from various countries including the UK the majority (about 95%) of all MOD payments. Payments while others, such as fresh fruit and vegetables, are not processed centrally are not included and may have sourced seasonally from a variety of countries. been made on behalf of other Government Departments, by the MOD’s Trading Funds and Executive non- departmental bodies (which lie outside the MOD’s Armed Forces: Joint Strike Fighter Aircraft accounting boundary), locally by the Department, through third parties such as prime contractors or other Government Mr Kevan Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Departments and in relation to collaborative projects Defence when he expects the Joint Air Strike Fighter to where the payments are made through international be available for use by the armed forces. [66906] procurement agencies or overseas governments. 79W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 80W

From 2005-06, the individual subsidiaries and joint Nick Harvey: The utilisation rate, as a proportion of ventures relating to BAE Systems have been reproduced court time available, of the No. 2 courts at the military from the corporate structures as published in Table court centres at Bulford and Catterick during the period 1.17a of UK Defence Statistics. 11 January to 17 December 2010 was 4% and 9.2% respectively. It should be noted that the No. 2 courts are smaller Cadet Forces: Finance than the primary courts at each site. They were designed to be used when the primary courts reach full capacity Gordon Henderson: To ask the Secretary of State for and generally only for shorter proceedings such as Defence (1) how much his Department allocated to the preliminary or sentencing hearings. Air Training Corps in 2009-10; and how much he plans Cyprus: Military Bases to allocate to it in (a) 2011-12 and (b) 2012-13; [68569] Gemma Doyle: To ask the Secretary of State for (2) how much his Department allocated to the Army Defence what plans he has to develop facilities for Cadet Force in 2009-10; and how much he plans to members of the armed forces at the Sovereign base allocate to it in (a) 2011-12 and (b) 2012-13; [68570] areas on Cyprus. [69152] (3) how much his Department allocated to the Sea Cadets in 2009-10; and how much he plans to allocate Mr Robathan: A £42 million project to build 628 new to it in (a) 2011-12 and (b) 2012-13. [68571] single living spaces and refurbish two single living blocks at Episkopi and Akrotiri was completed last month. Mr Robathan: The funding allocated to the Cadet Construction of 269 replacement service families’ forces in each of the years requested is shown in the accommodation, costing £75 million, is due to be completed following table: at Akrotiri by 2016. Decompression facilities are kept under constant review, with the most recent developments £ million being a welfare facility providing accommodation, a FY 2009-10 FY 2011-12 FY 2012-13 briefing area, gym, wi-fi, bar and stage. We are considering Sea Cadet 9.290 9.215 9.445 further areas where amenities can be enhanced for Corps troops returning from operations. As with all projects Army Cadet 47.133 48.636 49.852 these plans are subject to funding. There are also a Force number of non-publicly funded amenities available for Air Training 21.910 22.676 22.569 the use of members of the armed forces in Cyprus. Corps Departmental Assets The figures for the Army and Air Cadet forces for financial years 2011-12 and 2012-13 are the latest forecasts Mr Arbuthnot: To ask the Secretary of State for for planning purposes and may alter in future financial Defence what estimate he has made of the monetary planning rounds. The Sea Cadet Corps (SCC) is not value of material assets ordered by his Department but part of the Royal Navy or the Ministry of Defence, which could not be delivered to the end user because of although funding support is given in the form of a grant inadequate labelling in the latest period for which in aid to the Marine Society and Sea Cadets (MSSC). figures are available. [68524] Each SCC unit is an independent charity but becomes a member of the Sea Cadet Corps by an act of affiliation Peter Luff: In July 2011 assets to the value of £795,000 with the MSSC, itself a charitable body. were received by the Ministry of Defence that will require corrections to the labelling before delivery to the end user. £123,000 worth had already been resolved as Chief of the Defence Staff: Travel at 17 August 2011.

Mr Kevan Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Arbuthnot: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what the cost to the public purse was of travel Defence by what means his Department identifies the by the (a) Chief of the Defence Staff and (b) location of its assets; and whether he plans to change Vice-Chief of the Defence Staff in the last 12 months. the way his Department manages information on the [66913] location of its assets. [68525]

Dr Fox: Since 1 July 2010, £50,390.91 and £9,581.94 Peter Luff: Assets recorded on the Ministry of Defence has been spent on official travel by the Chief of the (MOD)’s non-current (fixed) asset register or on Defence Staff and the Vice Chief of Defence Staff departmental inventory supply systems have an indicator respectively. which provides location information. The MOD has a number of processes in place to confirm the location of its assets including: an annual Courts Martial physical verification of assets with a value in excess of £100,000; an annual census of land managed equipment Mr Wallace: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence and engineering assets; and a rolling four year stocktaking what the utilisation rate was of the No. 2 courts at the programme. Courts Martial centres at (a) Bulford and (b) Catterick The Department is currently half way through an garrison in the latest period for which figures are available. extensive improvement programme which aims to [68445] implement recommendations made by the Comptroller 81W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 82W and Auditor General, regarding the management of Financial year Amount spent (£ million) certain asset and inventory items. This includes significant investment in IT systems which will help the Department 2007-08 951 to manage information on asset location more effectively. 2008-09 989 2009-10 1,027 Gemma Doyle: To ask the Secretary of State for These figures include expenditure on housing, other Defence what (a) land, (b) property and (c) other living accommodation, office accommodation, grounds assets his Department has sold since 2010; and how maintenance and the technical estate. This does not much it received for each sale. [69150] include expenditure on the maintenance of property provided through private finance initiatives where amounts Mr Robathan: A list detailing the land and property cannot be separately identified from other elements of sold by the Ministry of Defence in the United Kingdom the service charge. between January 2010 and July 2011, achieving gross Departmental Consultants sale proceeds in excess of £70 million, will be placed in the Library of the House. The list does not give details Austin Mitchell: To ask the Secretary of State for of individual recent site sales receipts, as their disclosure Defence how many senior civil servants in his Department would prejudice commercial interests. at each grade had worked for PricewaterhouseCoopers, Ernst & Young, Deloitte or KPMG immediately prior The Disposal Services Authority (DSA) achieved £84 to taking up their appointment in each of the last four million in gross sales during 2010-11. This includes £4 years; what consultancy agreements his Department million of repayment sales generated through the sale had with those firms in each such year; and how many of stock items to other Governments holding the same consultants from those firms have advised his Department type of equipment. Information of all the sales is not in each such year. [68960] held centrally and could be provided only at disproportionate cost. Mr Robathan: Only one member of the senior civil service was recruited from these companies in the period Departmental Buildings for which information is requested. The individual joined the Department in 2007 from KPMG as an SCS Pay Band 1 on a fixed term appointment following an open Gemma Doyle: To ask the Secretary of State for competition. All appointments to the civil service are Defence how much his Department has spent on repairs made on merit on the basis of fair and open competition and maintenance of its properties in (a) 2007-08, (b) in accordance with the Recruitment Principles laid down 2008-09 and (c) 2009-10. [69148] by the Civil Service Commission. Central records show that over the past four years the Mr Robathan: The Ministry of Defence spend on Department has let consultancy contracts with these repair and maintenance is shown in the following table: companies as follows:

Number of contracts let—financial year 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11

PricewaterhouseCoopers 6 7 10 4 Ernst & Young 1201 Deloitte 8 7 18 10 KPMG 2913

Contracts were for external assistance and covered a Peter Luff: The information is not held in a format wide range of subject matter reflecting the breadth of which allows for distinction between maintenance suppliers defence business. Areas included: Assistance with the and other suppliers, nor, therefore, is the value of each Head Office Streamlining programme, the Logistics maintenance contract held. Sub-strategy for Defence, refinancing of Strategic Sea Departmental Correspondence Lift and Information Systems Security. The number of consultants deployed on contracts for Austin Mitchell: To ask the Secretary of State for external assistance is a commercial judgment for the Defence how many letters his Department received contractor as we contract with consultancy companies from hon. Members in June 2011. [68760] to deliver a specific output at an agreed price rather than for a set number of personnel. Mr Robathan: During June 2011, the Ministry of Defence received 458 pieces of parliamentary correspondence from hon. Members, excluding requests submitted under the Freedom of Information Act. Departmental Contracts Departmental Land

Mr Kevan Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Gemma Doyle: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence which suppliers have maintenance contracts Defence what the (a) name, (b) location and (c) with his Department; and what the monetary value is current market value is of all land his Department of each such contract. [66916] owns. [69149] 83W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 84W

Mr Robathan: Details of all Ministry of Defence land Diamond Jubilee 2012: Medals holdings with asset valuation over £1 million, including sites in disposal, can be found in Chapter Seven of the Lady Hermon: To ask the Secretary of State for National Asset Register, last published by HM Treasury Defence (1) what assessment he has made of the in 2007: potential effect on morale of members of the armed http://www.official-documents.gov.uk/document/cm70/7022/ forces ineligible to receive a Diamond Jubilee Medal 7022.pdf because they will have served for less than five full The National Asset Register is on a historic replacement calendar years on 6 February 2012; [69141] cost basis, not market value. Details of all property with (2) for what reason members of the armed forces asset valuation below £1 million, could be provided who will have served for less than five full calendar only at disproportionate cost. years on 6 February 2012 are not eligible for the award We do not routinely assess the current market value of the Diamond Jubilee Medal. [69142] of all our estate because the estimated receipts will depend on market conditions and other factors at the Mr Robathan: No assessment has been made on the time of sale. Where pre-sale valuations have been obtained, potential effect on morale of members of the armed these are regarded as commercially confidential and are forces ineligible to receive the commemorative Diamond thus not released ahead of the sale in case they influence Jubilee Medal. the market. The Department for Culture, Olympics, Media, and Sport have announced that the criteria of five years Departmental Procurement service on 6 February 2012 had been approved by Her Majesty the Queen. This requirement is consistent with the approach used in 2002 when determining eligibility Julian Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for for the Golden Jubilee Medal, and with other key front Defence what proportion of procurement contracts line services such as the prison service, the police, and offered by his Department have been advertised on the fire and rescue services. Contracts Finder website since the website’s inception. [67244] European Fighter Aircraft

Peter Luff: Since 1 April 2011 all of the Ministry of Mr Kevan Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence’s eligible contract opportunities have been Defence what estimate he has made of the cost advertised on Contracts Finder. implications of the change in timetable of the development programme for the Typhoon aircraft to Departmental Public Expenditure enable weapons capabilities. [66896] Peter Luff: The Typhoon future capabilities programme Mr Kevan Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for is planned to provide enhancements to Typhoon in the Defence to what expenditure on equipment his air-to-air and air-to-ground roles. The first stage in the Department is committed over the next 15 years; and development programme for Typhoon’s new weapons with whom the commitments have been entered into. capabilities is the future capability programme contract, [66904] which was signed in 2007. Further weapons upgrades are under consideration to enable Typhoon to employ a Peter Luff: The Department has calculated its contractual greater variety of air-to-ground munitions in future. commitments in respect of defence equipment procurement Project information about Typhoon, including cost and (excluding contracts for equipment support) at some time, is available in the Major Projects Report. A copy £23 billion over the next ten years (2012-13 to 2021-22). has been placed in the Library of the House. The information beyond 10 years and a detailed breakdown of the contractors with whom commitments have been Sir Menzies Campbell: To ask the Secretary of State entered into could be provided only at disproportionate for Defence (1) what estimate his Department has made cost. Information on MOD contracts let after 1 January of the cost to the public purse of transferring the 2011 is available online via the pan-Government Contracts Typhoon force from RAF Leuchars to RAF Lossiemouth; Finder website at: [68585] http://www.contractsfinder.businesslink.gov.uk/ (2) what estimate his Department has made of the cost to the public purse of operating the Typhoon Force Departmental Security from (a) RAF Lossiemouth and (b) RAF Leuchars over a 25-year period; whether his Department revised its estimate of such costs during the basing review Jonathan Reynolds: To ask the Secretary of State for process; and if he will make a statement. [68590] Defence what plans he has for future security provision for his Department’s sites. [68720] Nick Harvey: The estimated relative cost of operating the Typhoon Force from RAF Lossiemouth and RAF Mr Robathan: The Ministry of Defence keeps its Leuchars over a 25 year period, including the costs of policies and requirements for guarding and civil policing transferring from Leuchars to Lossiemouth, is under regular review. We continue to attach very high approximately £604 million and £565 million respectively. importance to safeguarding our people, information The costs were refined and updated during the course of and assets; and we will therefore continue to maintain the basing review, as is usual in such a process. They will effective and proportionate levels of security at all of be refined further during detailed planning for the our sites. implementation of the Defence basing decisions. 85W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 86W

In taking these decisions, the balance of financial Joint Strike Fighter Aircraft advantage between Leuchars or Lossiemouth as RAF bases was outweighed by wider Defence considerations. Mr Kevan Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for These included the necessity to establish a coherent Defence what estimate he has made of the (a) plan for basing the Army following its return from expenditure made and (b) further expenditure required Germany and the need to realise receipts by disposing from the public purse to enable the Joint Strike Fighter of high value estate, including in Edinburgh, while to become available. [66907] ensuring the build-up of the Typhoon force. European Union: Medals Peter Luff: The total expenditure undertaken on the Joint Strike Fighter is £1,825 million. The Ministry of Defence does not publish estimates of the costs of Ms Gisela Stuart: To ask the Secretary of State for programmes as to do so would prejudice commercial Defence how many UK military service personnel have interests. received EU service medals to date. [68784] Mr Kevan Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Robathan: The information requested is not held Defence what proportion of the costs of the Joint centrally and could be provided only at disproportionate Strike Fighter project has been provided by his cost. Department. [66908] Ex-servicemen: Prisoners Peter Luff: The United Kingdom has spent £1,825 million to date on the Joint Strike Fighter. All of this Gemma Doyle: To ask the Secretary of State for spend has come from the Ministry of Defence budget. Defence how many ex-services personnel are in prison custody; and what proportion of the total prison Mr Kevan Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for population that figure represents. [69156] Defence whether non-US companies will be eligible to tender for maintenance contracts for the joint strike Mr Robathan: We currently estimate that there are fighter following its delivery. [66909] around 3,000 former service personnel in prison custody, representing some 3.5% of the total prison population. Peter Luff: The terms of the Joint Strike Fighter I refer the hon. Member to the reply given by my noble (JSF) Production, Sustainment and Follow-on Friend, the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Development Memorandum of Understanding are very Defence, Lord Astor of Hever, to the noble Baroness, clear in that all JSF industrial work, whether production Baroness Gibson of Market Rasen, in another place on or maintenance and support, will be awarded to companies 14 July 2011, Official Report, column WA 214, regarding providing a competitive best value bid, regardless of, the Howard League’s Independent Inquiry into Former nationality. UK companies have already won JSF Armed Service Personnel in Prison. production contracts worth 15% by value of the work Germany: Armed Forces on each aircraft and are therefore well placed to win future maintenance and support work. Alison Seabeck: To ask the Secretary of State for Libya: Armed Conflict Defence how many members of the armed forces who are based in Germany are family units; and how many Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for live in accommodation outside their base. [68504] Defence whether he plans to send (a) a Type 45 destroyer and (b) HMS Illustrious to aid in Operation Nick Harvey: As of 31 March 2011, 9,122 service Ellamy. [68438] family accommodation properties in Germany were occupied. Nick Harvey: The Ministry of Defence regularly reviews Information on family units and how many members the plans for our continuing naval support to Operation of the armed forces live in accommodation outside the Ellamy. We are considering a number of options and base is not held centrally and could be provided only at nothing has been finalised at this time. disproportionate cost. Libya: Military Aircrafts Alison Seabeck: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence pursuant to the oral statement of 18 July Mr Kevan Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for 2011, Official Report, column 643, on defence Defence how many fast jet aircraft deployed in Libya transformation, what type of accommodation service are unusable due to a lack of parts or supplies. [66895] personnel based in Germany will be moved into by 2015. [68505] Peter Luff: There are currently six Typhoons and 16 Tornados deployed to Italy in support of operations in Nick Harvey: Service personnel are provided with Libya. Since current operations commenced and up to accommodation in accordance with the entitlements set 15 August 2011, our fast jets have not had to cancel any out in the Tri-Service Accommodation Regulations, of their planned sorties due to a lack of parts or published as Joint Service Publication 464, a copy of supplies. which has been placed in the Library of the House. At any given time, it may be necessary to withdraw It is too early to say at this time exactly which bases aircraft from operations in order to carry out routine personnel currently based in Germany may be moved maintenance and mandated flight checks. However, we to, or what type of accommodation may be required. continue to conduct operations at a high tempo, consistent 87W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 88W with our commitment to meeting NATO’s mission the system of compensation in the country where they objectives. Typhoon aircraft have exceeded expectations were injured; application forms; help with any other of serviceability allowing the UK to play a key part in documents they might have to provide; help sending the NATO operations protecting the civilian population completed forms to the right place; and advice if they of Libya. Our ability to maintain aircraft availability is are asked for further information. attributable to the professionalism of our service personnel The Ministry of Defence operates a non-statutory and civilian support staff, together with robust air and scheme, the Criminal Injuries Compensation (Overseas) road supply lines from the UK. Scheme (CIC(O)), which pays compensation to service Libya: UN Resolutions personnel and their accompanying dependants who are based overseas who are the innocent victims of crimes of violence. CIC(O) is a scheme of last resort and as Nicola Blackwood: To ask the Secretary of State for such claimants are eligible only if no other scheme Defence what discussions he has had with the Secretary offers compensation. of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs on the implementation of UN Security Resolution 1325 in Libya; and if he will make a statement. [68457] Military Bases: Edinburgh

Dr Fox: I have regular discussions with the Secretary Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs and Defence what estimate he has made of the monetary other ministerial colleagues on a range of issues. value of (a) Craigiehall, (b) Dreghorn and (c) The United Kingdom has a National Action Plan Redford barracks in Edinburgh. [69090] (NAP), owned jointly by the Ministry of Defence, Foreign and Commonwealth Office, and Department for Mr Robathan: The estimated receipts for these sites International Development, for the implementation of will depend on market conditions and other factors at UN Security Council Resolution 1325 (UNSCR1325). the time of sale (by 2014-15 at the latest). Where pre-sale The NAP on UNSCR1325 Women, Peace and Security valuations are obtained, these are regarded as commercially was revised in November 2010. confidential and are not released ahead of the sale as they could influence the market. The UK has regular discussions with the Libyan National Transitional Council both bilaterally and through the Libya Contact Group. This includes their stabilisation Mike Crockart: To ask the Secretary of State for plan and draft constitution for the future of all Libyan Defence what assessment he has made of the likelihood people. of achieving a favourable sale price for Craigiehall Camp. [69165] Military Aircraft: Training Mr Robathan: The Ministry of Defence must sell its Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for surplus estate in accordance with Treasury guidelines Defence when he will issue the Request for Proposals which require it to get the best price reasonably obtainable for the UK Military Flying Training Systems; what (i.e. market value) normally through open competition— estimate he has made of the monetary value of the unless it is required by other public bodies (e.g. Scottish contract; and where the training will take place for each Government) or there are former owner (Crichel Down) aircraft type. [69087] considerations. The actual value will be determined by the market at Peter Luff: Ascent Flight Training, the Ministry of the time of sale which is not due until 2014-15. Defence’s training system partner, is due to issue the detailed request for proposals to continue the aircraft Mike Crockart: To ask the Secretary of State for service provision competition, as part of the UK Military Defence what assessment he has made of the likely Flying Training System programme, in December 2011. effect on local businesses of the closure of (a) Craigiehall, I am withholding the information on the estimated (b) Dreghorn and (c) Redford bases. [69167] value of the contract as its disclosure would prejudice commercial interests. Until the competition is complete, I cannot confirm where the training for each aircraft Mr Robathan: As the Secretary of State said in his type will take place. written ministerial statement on basing on 18 July 2011, Official Report, columns 66-70WS, we: Military Bases: Crime “recognised that Defence decisions have broader regional, economic and social consequences”. Andrew Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for However, we have been very clear and consistent Defence what criminal injuries compensation is throughout the basing review that the paramount criteria available to British citizens who are the victims of must be what makes overall sense for Defence. We will crime committed by other British citizens at UK make more efficient use of the existing Defence estate military bases overseas. [68978] by using bases that are otherwise underused, such as Kirknewton, and realising receipts from high-value sites, Mr Robathan: The Criminal Injuries Compensation such as Dreghorn, Craigiehall and Redford Barracks. It Authority (CICA), an agency of the Ministry of Justice, makes military and financial sense to consolidate on assists UK residents to apply for compensation if they fewer, larger sites. But our rebasing plan may, regrettably, were injured because of a criminal injury in another mean a reduction in Defence-related economic activity European Union country on or after 1 July 2005. This for some communities and local businesses. We will assistance includes the provision of information about continue to consult with the Scottish Secretary, the 89W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 90W

Scottish Government and other partners to see how any the First Minister. These discussions took into account harmful socio-economic impacts that may result might the proposed creation of an Army base at Kirknewton. be minimised, including in Edinburgh. As he said in his written ministerial statement of 18 July 2011, Official Report, columns 66-70WS, we will now Mike Crockart: To ask the Secretary of State for begin the process of detailed planning and the appropriate Defence (1) what plans his Department has made for and necessary engagement with the affected local authorities, the redeployment of army personnel from (a) Craigiehall, including the above councils. (b) Dreghorn and (c) Redford bases; [69168] While there are no plans at present for the Defence (2) how many of the army personnel at (a) Secretary to visit Kirknewton, we believe it is important Craigiehall, (b) Dreghorn and (c) Redford he expects that Defence Ministers regularly visit defence sites across to be made redundant; [69169] the United Kingdom, including in Scotland, and we (3) when his Department notified army personnel at will continue to look for opportunities to do so. (a) Craigiehall, (b) Dreghorn and (c) Redford of its intention to close each base. [69172] Graeme Morrice: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence (1) when the proposed army base at Mr Robathan: There will be no military redundancies Kirknewton is expected to become fully operational; as a direct result of the closure of Craigiehall, Dreghorn [68932] and Redford Barracks. However, it is possible that some (2) how many troops will be stationed at the military personnel currently stationed at these locations proposed army base at Kirknewton once it is fully may be made redundant under the Army Redundancy operational; [68933] Programme, which concludes in 2015. Military personnel serving in Craigiehall, Dreghorn and Redford will be (3) when he plans to publish further details of the posted to other units in accordance with the usual timetable for establishing an army base at Kirknewton. military postings procedure. [68938] The Ministry of Defence notified Army personnel at each of the three bases of its intention to close each Nick Harvey: The announcement made by the Secretary base as soon as was practicably possible following the of State for Defence, the right hon. Member for North announcement to the House on 18 July 2011, Official Somerset (Dr Fox), on 18 July 2011, Official Report, Report, columns 643-45, by the Secretary of State for columns 643-45, set out our strategic long-term direction Defence, my right hon. Friend the Member for North on the structure of the Army and its basing requirements Somerset (Dr Fox). across the United Kingdom. Comprehensive planning work is now under way to understand and draw up plans for the timing and sequencing of the Army moves. Mike Crockart: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what proportion of army personnel housing at It is therefore too early to confirm exact details on (a) Dreghorn and (b) Redford his Department (i) timelines and the number of personnel who will be owns and (ii) rents. [69170] based at Kirknewton.

Mr Robathan: The Ministry of Defence (MOD) currently Graeme Morrice: To ask the Secretary of State for holds 546 Service Family Accommodation properties in Defence (1) what estimate he has made of the cost to Edinburgh to accommodate personnel and their families the public purse of establishing an army base at based at various units. Of this total, 244 properties are Kirknewton; [68934] located at Dreghorn, 224 at Redford, and 78 at South (2) whether his Department will provide funding to Queensferry. local authorities to upgrade infrastructure around the The MOD owns all but 103 of the properties in proposed army base at Kirknewton. [68935] Edinburgh. These are provided under a private finance initiative agreement with Bannockburn Homes Ltd with Mr Robathan: Comprehensive planning work, including 43 at Dreghorn and 60 at Redford. a detailed assessment of the investment required to There is currently no Substitute Service Families adapt the Kirknewton site is currently under way. Accommodation (that is, privately rented accommodation) It would therefore be premature at this stage to in Edinburgh. comment on provision of central Government funding Military Bases: Kirknewton to the local authorities.

Graeme Morrice: To ask the Secretary of State for Graeme Morrice: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence (1) if he will visit Kirknewton to discuss the Defence by what means the local community will be proposed army base with the hon. Member for Livingston consulted on plans to establish an army base at and local residents; [68930] Kirknewton. [68936] (2) what recent discussions he has had with (a) West Lothian Council and (b) the City of Edinburgh Council Nick Harvey: I refer the hon. Member to the statement regarding the proposed army base at Kirknewton. made by the Secretary of State for Defence, my right [68937] hon. Friend, the Member for North Somerset (Dr Fox) on 18 July 2011, Official Report, columns 643-66, where Mr Robathan: The Secretary of State for Defence, my he announced that we will now begin the process of right hon. Friend the Member for North Somerset (Dr detailed planning and the appropriate and necessary Fox), discussed the Basing Review with Ministers in the engagement with the affected local authorities and Scotland Office and the Scottish Government, including communities, including Kirknewton. 91W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 92W

The Defence Infrastructure Organisation will prepare Defence estate by using bases that are otherwise underused a Sustainability Appraisal (including any environmental such as Kirknewton; and realising receipts from the sale assessments required) and a ‘Master Plan’ for the site of high-value sites no longer required. Kirknewton is that will be used as a basis for informal and formal one element of the overall solution we identified that consultation with the officials from the Scottish offered best value for money, met these requirements, Government, local authorities and the wider community. and will offer the Ministry of Defence flexibility in This will be followed by formal planning applications planning the return of the Army from Germany. and public consultation for the redevelopment of the site. The exact means we will use to consult will be Military Bases: Property Transfer agreed in due course. Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Mike Crockart: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence whether any accommodation disposed of by Defence what estimate he has made of the cost to his his Department as a result of the basing review will be Department of building new barracks at Kirknewton, made available to local authorities for social housing. West Lothian. [69164] [69089]

Mr Robathan: The Ministry of Defence is not able to Mr Robathan: It is departmental policy to work closely provide a cost estimate at this time. Occupation of with the Homes and Communities Agency, local authorities Kirknewton will not begin until 2016-17 and planning and devolved administrations (including the Scottish will commence later in this financial year. Housing Executive) when identifying the strategy for each disposal. Transfers to other public bodies and Mike Crockart: To ask the Secretary of State for registered social landlords are made at market value in Defence what assessment he has made of the likely accordance with Treasury Guidelines. effect on the (a) local infrastructure of, (b) requirement of school provision in and (c) requirement for school National Security Council transport in Kirknewton, West Lothian, of the establishment of an army base. [69166] Steve Rotheram: To ask the Secretary of State for Graeme Morrice: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what role and responsibilities he has in Defence what assessment he has made of the potential relation to the National Security Council; and what impact on the (a) local economy and (b) local environment recent contribution he has made to its work. [67418] of the proposed army base at Kirknewton. [68931] Dr Fox: I am a member of the National Security Mr Robathan: The Secretary of State’s 18 July Council which meets regularly, in some cases several announcement set out our strategic long-term direction times a week. I contribute fully to the consideration of on basing across the United Kingdom. As he said in his the wide-ranging domestic and international security written ministerial statement, Official Report, columns 66- questions tackled by the National Security Council. 70WS), we “recognised that Defence decisions have Nuclear Submarines broader regional, economic and social consequences”. Comprehensive planning work is now under way to Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for draw up detailed plans for the future of Kirknewton, Defence if he will estimate how much of the contract which will include an assessment of the likely effect on for the Common Missile Compartment design was local infrastructure, school provision and school transport, spent in (a) England, (b) Scotland, (c) Wales and (d) as well as Kirknewton’s broader local economy and Northern Ireland; and how many jobs have resulted environment. This will involve the appropriate and necessary from the contract in (i) England, (ii) Scotland, (iii) engagement with partners such as the Scottish Government, Wales and (iv) Northern Ireland. [68439] West Lothian council and the relevant other Government Departments and agencies. We have a shared interest in Peter Luff: The United Kingdom participates in a managing local issues, such as schooling and transport, cost sharing agreement with the United States for the as effectively as we can for the benefit of both the local design and development of the Common Missile community and for our own personnel. Compartment. In 2008, the US Department of Defense, Mike Crockart: To ask the Secretary of State for who are managing this work area, awarded a contract Defence what factors led his Department to select to General Dynamics Electric Boat for the design and Kirknewton, West Lothian, as a suitable site for a new development work. army base; and if he will place in the Library a copy of I understand the company has sub-contracted work each relevant document. [69171] to a number of firms based in the United Kingdom but we do not hold the information requested. It is not Mr Robathan: The announcement made by the Secretary Government policy to compile statistics related to defence of State for Defence, my right hon. Friend the Member spend on equipment or employment by UK regions. for North Somerset (Dr Fox), on 18 July 2011, Official Report, columns 643-45, set out our strategic long-term Property Transfer direction on basing across the United Kingdom. The intent of the review was to deliver a basing plan that Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for would accommodate the Army units returning from Defence what property his Department has (a) Germany; a geographical footprint that delivered the transferred to a local authority, (b) transferred to the operational and personnel requirements of multi-role social housing sector and (c) sold privately in each of brigades, that made most efficient use of the existing the last 10 years. [69091] 93W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 94W

Mr Robathan: A copy of the land and property Sir Menzies Campbell: To ask the Secretary of State transferred by the Ministry of Defence in the United for Defence pursuant to answer of 20 June 2011, Kingdom in each of the last 10 financial years to other Official Report, column 41W, on RAF Leuchars, if he public bodies, registered social landlords and private will place in the Library the assessment of the purchasers has been placed in the Library of the House. performance of the RAF Leuchars Quick Reaction We do not hold records centrally for 2001-02 and this Alert Force. [68587] information could be provided only at disproportionate cost. Nick Harvey: I am withholding the information requested as its disclosure would, or would be likely to prejudice Queen Elizabeth Aircraft Carriers the capability or effectiveness of the armed forces.

Nick Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for Sir Menzies Campbell: To ask the Secretary of State Defence for what reason documents supporting the for Defence how many private contractors are decision to continue the construction of the Queen employed at RAF Leuchars on the delivery of Elizabeth class aircraft carriers have not been provided Typhoon operations. [68588] to the National Audit Office. [67314] Nick Harvey: As at 20 July 2011, there were 25 Peter Luff: The National Audit Office has acknowledged personnel from four contractors employed in direct that they had access to all departmental papers on support of Typhoon operations at RAF Leuchars. Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carriers to inform their recent study on the value for money of Carrier Strike. Type 26 Frigates RAF Buchan Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what recent (a) discussions he has had and Defence how his Department disposed of (a) on-base (b) expressions of interest he has received from other and (b) off-base accommodation following the countries on the procurement of the Global Combat Ship. [69088] drawdown and closure of RAF Buchan. [69092]

Mr Robathan: Following the closure of RAF Buchan Mr Gerald Howarth: I refer the hon. Member to the in 2005, there was an application from a local community answer the Under-Secretary of State for Defence, my group to acquire the domestic site under the Land hon. Friend the Member for Mid Worcestershire (Peter Reform Act (Scotland) 2003. The group only bought Luff), gave on 19 July 2011, Official Report, column 867W, the playing field. Their application for the domestic site to the hon. Member for Bridgend (Mrs Moon). was withdrawn before the sale of accommodation took place. As a result, the surplus accommodation was sold Unmanned Air Vehicles on the open market between 2005 and 2008. Mr Kevan Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for RAF Leuchars Defence what recent assessment he has made of the performance of current unmanned combat air vehicles; Sir Menzies Campbell: To ask the Secretary of State and for what reasons it is proposed to continue with the for Defence pursuant to the written ministerial future unmanned combat air vehicle project. [66910] statement of 18 July 2011, Official Report, column 644WS, on defence transformation, what timetable is in Peter Luff: Analysis to date has indicated that Unmanned place for (a) the draw down of the Typhoon force from Combat Air Systems (UCAS), in combination with RAF Leuchars and (b) the arrival of army units and a manned systems, could form part of a cost effective formation headquarters. [68586] solution for future air-to-air and air-to-ground combat roles. Ongoing research is focused on developing concepts Nick Harvey: As the Secretary of State for Defence, and assessing their performance with a view to shaping the right hon. Member for North Somerset (Dr Fox), a future UCAS programme. Such work includes the made clear in his announcement on 18 July 2011, Official Taranis technology demonstrator, which the Ministry Report, columns 66-70WS, further work will be done to of Defence is developing in partnership with a BAE draw-up individual project plans and determine the Systems-led industry team. timing and sequencing of the Army moves. Therefore, while our aim is to move a headquarters to Leuchars before 2015 with two major units thereafter, in 2015-17, War Memorials I am unable to provide a more detailed programme for Leuchars at this stage. Gemma Doyle: To ask the Secretary of State for Having decided that we will build up the Typhoon Defence what the cost to his Department of (a) force at Lossiemouth, we will start preparing the creating and (b) maintaining war memorials in the UK infrastructure at Lossiemouth to receive the Typhoon has been in each year since 2000. [69154] force straight away. The build-up will take place over time and Leuchars will remain a working RAF base Mr Robathan: The Ministry of Defence does not until 2014. So we hope to ensure continuity of the have responsibility for war memorials. This responsibility military presence in Fife, and minimise the impact on rests with the owner of the memorial, which is normally the local economy of these changes. a local authority, a private individual or organisation. 95W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 96W

Warships WORK AND PENSIONS Benefits Rules Dr Julian Lewis: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what the planned in-service dates are for each Ms Buck: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and of the (a) Astute-class submarines and (b) Type 45 Pensions how many of the individuals in households he destroyers which have yet to join the fleet. [68307] estimates will be affected by his proposed cap on welfare benefit entitlements are (a) children and (b) Peter Luff: The First of Class, HMS Astute, achieved adults. [68699] its in-service date in April 2010 and is currently undertaking a period of extensive and comprehensive sea trials Chris Grayling: The introduction of the household before being handed over to the Royal Navy for operational benefit cap is intended to achieve long-term positive service, which on current plans will be in late 2012. behavioural effects through changed attitudes to welfare, responsible life choices and strong work incentives. The planned in-service dates for the remainder of the In the equality impact assessment we published in Astute class boats are: March 2011, we showed the number of households affected, and the division of those households by number Year of children. From this, it is estimated that the households Boat 2 (Ambush) 2013 affected by the cap will contain less than 100,000 adults, Boat 3 (Artful) 2015 and approximately 200,000 children. Boat 4 (Audacious) 2018 We have announced that we are looking at ways of Boat 5 2020 easing the transition for families and providing assistance Boat 6 2022 in hard cases. Boat 7 2024 John McDonnell: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what definition of work will be The planned in-service dates for the Type 45 Destroyers used when applying the proposed benefit cap. [68296] which have yet to join the fleet are: Chris Grayling: We are introducing the benefit cap to Year promote fairness between those in and out of work and Dragon 2012 to increase incentives for people to move into work or Defender 2013 increase their hours of employment. In support of these objectives, households which contain a member who is Duncan 2014 eligible for working tax credit will be exempt from the cap. We are still considering the precise criteria for a corresponding exemption under universal credit. Warships: Helicopters Carbon Emissions

Dr Julian Lewis: To ask the Secretary of State for Luciana Berger: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence which vessels will be available to serve as Work and Pensions what estimate he has made of the landing platform (helicopter) ships from 2020 onwards. carbon dioxide emissions from his Department in (a) [68309] June 2010 and (b) June 2011. [66746]

Peter Luff: The means for delivering our landing Chris Grayling: It is estimated that Department for platform helicopter capability after 2020 have not yet Work and Pensions non-weather corrected emissions been decided, nor has the eventual out-of-service date for its office estate and business travel amounted to of HMS Ocean, which provides the current capability. 14,177,678 kg CO2 for June 2010. These decisions will be influenced by the evolving plan The Department for Work and Pensions is still collating for the introduction into service of the new Queen and validating its emission data for June 2011, however Elizabeth class aircraft carriers. it is estimated that its non-weather corrected emissions for June 2011 will amount to some 12,759,910 kg CO2. Estates information for 2010-11 is based on data Warships: Weapons collected quarterly, DWP moved to collecting data on a monthly basis from April 2011. Dr Julian Lewis: To ask the Secretary of State for Child Support Agency: Correspondence Defence what his policy is on the replacement of existing warship guns by ones of 155mm; and if he will Andrew Bridgen: To ask the Secretary of State for make a statement on his policy, with special reference Work and Pensions what percentage of queries to the to (a) the future frigate fleet and (b) Type 45 Child Support Agency were responded to within 15 destroyers. [68308] working days in (a) 2009 and (b) 2010. [68235]

Peter Luff: No decision on the calibre of the new Maria Miller: The Child Maintenance and Enforcement Maritime Indirect Fire System (the new naval gun) has Commission is responsible for the child maintenance yet been made. This will be taken when work to consider system. I have asked the Child Maintenance Commissioner the available options under the Future Maritime Fires to write to the hon. Member with the information Concept Phase is complete in around mid-2012. requested and I have seen the response. 97W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 98W

Letter from Noel Shanahan: effectively in the long-term. Once we have considered In reply to your recent Parliamentary Question about the that advice we will decide what indicator would be Child Support Agency, the Secretary of State promised a substantive appropriate for the collection of arrears. reply from the Child Maintenance Commissioner as the Child Support Agency is now the responsibility of the Child Maintenance Kate Green: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Enforcement Commission. and Pensions what models for integrating child You asked the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, what maintenance into local services are being tested by the percentage of queries to the Child Support Agency were responded Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission; to within 15 working days in (a) 2009 and (b) 2010. [68235] what the timetable is for testing such models; and We tried to contact your office to clarify your question as the where such models are being tested. [68437] Child Support Agency does not record the percentage of queries that are responded to within 15 days. Maria Miller: The Government’s response to their We have instead interpreted your question as what percentage consultation on the future of child maintenance was of complaints to the Child Support Agency were either fully resolved or had a resolution plan in place within 15 days. The published on 12 July. This sets out the Government’s percentage of complaints that were fully resolved and/or with a next steps for taking forward their plans for joining up resolution plan in place within 15 working days of receipt in the the existing specialist and local support available to year ending March 2011 was 99.2%. This is an increase from separating and separated families, so that more parents 98.5% in the year ending March 2010 and 97.1% in the year are able to work together to reach agreements for financial ending March 2009. support of their children following separation. I hope you find this answer helpful. The Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission is already engaging with local authorities, voluntary Children: Maintenance and community groups to encourage them to promote messages around child maintenance as part of their Mr Brine: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and own information services. Pensions pursuant to the answer of 12 July 2011, Since the beginning of 2011, the Commission established Official Report, columns 237-38W, on Child Support local projects to explore how support on child maintenance Agency, when he plans to consult on his proposals to can be integrated into pre-existing local hubs. In Ashington introduce a new variations system as part of the in Northumberland, support on child maintenance is proposed new child maintenance scheme. [68170] being delivered in a children’s centre where other services are offered. A similar project has started in children’s Maria Miller: The Child Maintenance and Enforcement centres in Essex with the key difference that parents of Commission is responsible for the child maintenance children aged up to 19 use these centres. In Nottingham, system. I have asked the Child Maintenance Commissioner we are looking at how our services can be integrated to write to the hon. Member with the information into wider local authority support provision including requested and I have seen the response. health, youth and community services. Letter from Noel Shanahan: The results of these projects will be measured and In reply to your recent Parliamentary Question about the judged by the Commission throughout the year. Child Support Agency, the Secretary of State promised a substantive reply from the Child Maintenance Commissioner as the Child Support Agency is now the responsibility of the Child Maintenance Community Care Grants and Enforcement Commission. You asked the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, Kate Green: To ask the Secretary of State for Work pursuant to the Answer of 12 July 2011, Official Report, columns and Pensions when his Department plans to issue guidance 237-8W, on Child Support Agency, when he plans to consult on to local authorities on developing local support to his proposals to introduce a new variations system as part of the replace community care grants; and whether he plans to proposed new child maintenance scheme. [68170] consult (a) third sector organisations, (b) local authorities Variations rules will be included in a set of draft regulations and (c) national customer representative groups in dealing with maintenance calculations for the new statutory developing such guidance. [68090] scheme, which we plan to launch in 2012. These regulations will be subject to public consultation, which we are intending to announce in due course. Following that the regulations, which Steve Webb: We are already discussing with the Local will be affirmative, will be introduced into Parliament for consideration. Government Association, individual local authorities I hope you find this answer helpful. and national customer representative groups which aspects of the new service they are seeking guidance on and Kate Green: To ask the Secretary of State for Work how this can best be delivered. We are continuing to do and Pensions pursuant to the oral answer of 14 June so over the coming months, and we will be publishing 2010, Official Report, column 586, on Child Maintenance our early findings in the autumn. and Enforcement Commission, for what reasons performance indicators for the Child Maintenance and Departmental Air Travel Enforcement Commission for 2011-12 do not mention the collection of child maintenance arrears. [68436] John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions on what occasions he has flown on Maria Miller: It has become clear since the coalition official business (a) by budget airline and (b) in Government took office that we need to understand economy class in the last 12 months. [67920] fully the deep legacy of CSA arrears which have accumulated over 18 years. We have set up an independent Chris Grayling: The Secretary of State has travelled panel to look at arrears and provide advice on how on the following flights during the last 12 months arrears of child maintenance might be dealt with most (1 June 2010 to 31 May 2011). 99W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 100W

Departure date Journey (returns) Class Budget airline?

2 September 2010 Belfast-London Economy No 22 September 2010 Edinburgh-London Economy No 9 February 2011 Glasgow-London Economy No 19 May 2011 Glasgow-London Economy Yes

It should be noted that all of the above flights are Departmental Correspondence compliant with DWP’s current travel policy. This specifies that: Austin Mitchell: To ask the Secretary of State for The most cost-effective travel option in line with business Work and Pensions how many letters his Department needs must always be sought. received from hon. Members in June 2011. [68790] Air travel cannot be used for journeys under 300 miles. Chris Grayling: The information is not available in Air travel is prohibited between Manchester/London, Newcastle/ the format requested other than at disproportionate London, and Birmingham/Newcastle. cost as letters may be received from hon. Members at Economy class must be booked for any flight under 2½ hours. any of the Department’s offices. Expenditure on air travel has fallen by 59% from The number of pieces of correspondence from hon. 2009-10 to 2010-11, due to aggressive management of Members addressed to Ministers received in the Department the demand for travel within the Department and a in June 2011 is 1,962. Correspondence includes letters, specific initiative to ensure a modal shift from air to less emails and facsimiles. polluting modes of transport. The Permanent Secretary received two pieces of The Department has a ban on the use of first class correspondence directly from hon. Members during travel and asks staff to focus on minimising travel by June 2011. using facilities such as video conferencing instead. The chief executive of Jobcentre Plus received 105 pieces of correspondence directly from hon. Members during June 2011. Departmental Consultants The chief executive of the Pension Disability and Carers Service received 166 pieces of correspondence Austin Mitchell: To ask the Secretary of State for directly from hon. Members during June 2011. Work and Pensions how many senior civil servants in The commissioner and chief executive of the Child his Department at each grade had worked for Maintenance and Enforcement Commission received PricewaterhouseCoopers, Ernst & Young, Deloitte or three pieces of correspondence directly from hon. Members KPMG immediately prior to taking up their appointment during June 2011. In addition, the Child Support Agency in each of the last four years; what consultancy agreements received 478 pieces of correspondence directly from his Department had with those firms in each such year; hon. Members during June 2011. and how many consultants from those firms have advised Departmental Manpower his Department in each such year. [68946] Mr Redwood: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Chris Grayling: As far as our records show, in the and Pensions (1) how many people have been (a) financial year 2009-10 we employed one senior civil recruited and (b) made redundant from (i) his servant at grade Pay Band 1 directly from Department and (ii) each non-departmental body for PricewaterhouseCoopers, otherwise no other senior civil which he is responsible since May 2010; [66322] servants in the years in question were employed by these (2) how much (a) his Department and (b) each companies directly before taking up appointment with non-departmental body for which he is responsible has the DWP. spent on redundancies since May 2010. [66339] Information relating to the agreements DWP had Chris Grayling: The Government introduced a with those firms in each such year has been placed in recruitment freeze across all civil service departments the Library. and their non-departmental bodies from 24 May 2010. DWP typically pays for consultancy projects via a Frontline and business critical posts and the civil service fixed fee based on defined outcomes/deliverables therefore fast stream are exempt from the recruitment freeze; we are unable to quantify the number of consultants. however specific departmental approval is required for The consultancy supplier is expected to provide the these exemptions. requisite resource in order for the project deliverables to The number of people recruited since May 2010 is be achieved at the expected quality within the agreed shown in the following table. These figures include timescales. This approach ensures the provider is fully recruitment authorised under exemptions to the freeze responsible for the resources required to deliver the and where legally binding job offers had been made assignment and minimises the commercial risk to DWP. prior to the freeze commencing.

Recruitment Fixed term Permanent appointment Temporary1 Total

Department and its agencies 94 220 141 455 101W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 102W

Recruitment Fixed term Permanent appointment Temporary1 Total

Non-departmental public bodies2 Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission 55 516 — 571 Health and Safety Executive 120 19 — 139 Independent Living Fund — — — 0 The Pensions Advisory Service3 5*—* The Pensions Regulator 40 23 37 100 Pensions Ombudsman3 **—* National Employment Savings Trust (NEST) Corporation4 — 143 — 143 Pension Protection Fund 22 18 — 40 Remploy Ltd 12 150 — 162 1 Temporary staff are staff on the departmental payroll who have been hired on short term casual contracts. 2 The following non-departmental bodies do not employ staff: Disability Living Allowance Advisory Board Equality 2025 Industrial Injuries Advisory Council Social Security Advisory Committee 3 Numbers less than five or totals resulting from component numbers less than five are represented by *. 4 The Personal Accounts Delivery Authority was wound up on the 5 July 2010 and its functions transferred to its successor body—NEST Corporation.

Since May 2010 there have been a number of group Chris Grayling: The Department for Work and Pensions’ and individual early release schemes as set out as follows. IT system and procurement contract repository are not Early releases were subject to governance processes currently configured to report on the proportion of designed to ensure that they support business objectives procurement contracts that the Department awards to and represent value for money. small businesses. However, we are in the process of delivering this capability and expect completion by the Number of people end of the 2011-12 financial year. leaving under early release schemes Cost (£ million) During the period 1 May 2010 to 30 June 2011, the Department spent a total of £726.5 million with known Department and its agencies 1,563 70.9 small business suppliers. This represents 14.2% of our 1,069 people and £49.7 million of the figures above commercial spending in the period. relate to a recent early release scheme where figures are still to be reconciled for accounting purposes. This may Julian Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for Work lead to some slight amendments to the figures. and Pensions what proportion of procurement contracts offered by his Department have been Number of people advertised on the Contracts Finder website since the leaving under early website’s inception. [67226] Non-departmental public bodies releases schemes Cost (£ million)

Child Maintenance and 57 3.3 Chris Grayling: Since its inception and to 30 June Enforcement Commission 2011, the Department for Work and Pensions has published Health and Safety Executive 200 8.7 28 invitations to tender documents and 24 contract Pensions Ombudsman 0 0 award documents on the Contracts Finder website. We National Employment Savings 00are currently undertaking a review to ensure we have Trust (NEST) Corporation published 100% of our reportable contracts on the site. Remploy Ltd 705 19.2 This review should be completed by the 1 October 2011. The following non-departmental bodies each had less Departmental Redundancy than five early releases, in order to protect individual personal information the costs have been totalled. John McDonnell: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (1) how many employees of (a) Number of people leaving under early Jobcentre Plus and (b) his Department have been releases schemes Cost (£) made redundant in each month since May 2010; and how many such redundancies were (i) voluntary and (ii) 1 1 Independent Living Fund 6 458,312 compulsory; [68968] The Pensions Advisory 1— 1— Service (2) what estimate he has made of the number of The Pensions Regulator 1— 1— redundancy notices that will be issued to employees of Pension Protection Fund 1— 1— (a) Jobcentre Plus and (b) his Department between Total 6 458,312 July 2011 and December 2012. [68969] 1 Indicates brace Chris Grayling: Since May 2010 a total of 1,563 Departmental Procurement members of staff have left the Department and its agencies under early release schemes. 506 of these have Julian Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for Work been from Jobcentre Plus. and Pensions how many procurement contracts his All early releases have been on a voluntary basis, Department has awarded to small businesses since May there have been no compulsory redundancies. Releases 2010. [67225] were all subject to governance processes designed to 103W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 104W ensure that they supported business objectives and National Insurance Number (NINO) Allocation—where people represented value for money. without a NINO can apply for one; Over the period, the Department and its agencies National Benefit Fraud Hotline—where members of the public have collectively run three voluntary early release schemes. report claimants for suspected benefit fraud; The following table shows the months in which the Tax Evasion Hotline—is operated by Jobcentre Plus on behalf resulting releases took place: of HMRC, members of the public report people for suspected tax evasion; Month of DWP and Local Authority Fraud—is operated by Jobcentre Plus on leaving Jobcentre Plus other agencies DWP total behalf of local authorities, members of the public report people for suspected housing benefit or council tax benefit fraud; October 2010 70 117 187 January 2011 0 307 307 Jobseekers Allowance (JSA) Benefit Inquiry Line—JSA claimants can report a change of circumstances or make an inquiry about June 2011 436 633 1,069 their claim; Total 506 1,057 1,563 Income Support (IS) Benefit Inquiry Line—IS claimants can Each scheme had a common leaving date as shown report a change of circumstances or make an inquiry about their claim; however a small number of staff had later leaving dates for business reasons. Incapacity Benefit (IB) Inquiry Line—IB claimants can report a change of circumstances or make an inquiry about their claim; Figures relating to the June, early release scheme are still to be reconciled for accounting purposes. This may Employment Support Allowance (ESA) Inquiry Line—ESA claimants can report a change of circumstances or make an lead to some slight amendments to the figures. The inquiry about their claim; Department plans to realise substantial efficiency savings over the period of the spending review 2011-12 to Maternity Allowance—where members of the public contact 2014-15 through measures which will deliver both savings us to make a new claim to maternity allowance; and improved customer service, as well as focussing its Overseas Vacancy Team—where employers contact us to place resources on key reforms of the welfare system. These a vacancy outside of the UK; plans may lead to offers of voluntary exit, voluntary International Jobsearch Advice—is for members of the public redundancy or, if absolutely necessary, the use of who want information about working and living abroad; compulsory redundancy at some time in the future. Jobseeker Direct—members of the public can call to look for Work force planning is currently in hand and it is not jobs or obtain more information about a particular vacancy they feasible to provide firm estimates on numbers or timescales have found; at this stage. In some areas plans are more advanced Self Service Helpdesk—technical support for customers who and where this is the case indications are that we may are having difficulty making an application to benefit online; need to manage up to 1,850 early releases over the next UK Borders Agency Immigration Inquiry Bureau—Jobcentre two financial years. This figure is subject to ongoing Plus are currently running a proof of concept exercise in partnership review and may change. with UKBA taking some of their calls dealing with inquiries from immigration and emigration; Departmental Telephone Services E-Business Operational Support Team—technical support for employers who are having difficulty placing a vacancy online; and Small and Medium Business Recruitment Helpline—offers Nia Griffith: To ask the Secretary of State for Work advice and support to small and medium-sized businesses and and Pensions how much funding he has allocated to guides them through the recruitment process. each telephone helpline operated by his Department in 2011-12; and what the purpose is of each such helpline. The overall budget for this year is £212.3 million and this is broken down into £197.8 million for staff costs [68548] and £14.5 million for non-staff costs. CCD agents are multi skilled, which means that they answer calls across Chris Grayling: The Department for Work and Pensions multiple service lines. This means that they are unable (DWP) operates several telephone helplines and service to provide a breakdown of funding per service line. lines. These are spread across the different businesses CCD agents do not undertake any duties other than within DWP. It has not been possible to provide a telephony. detailed breakdown of funding for each service line, as many DWP people are multi-skilled, either across several Shared Services service lines and helplines or they perform both telephony Shared Services are split into three areas, Purchase to and processing duties. All of our external telephone Pay and Payment Resolution Service, Employee Services numbers are available on: and Debt Management. www.direct.gov.uk Purchase to Pay and Payment Resolution Service The information provided is by business. operates three service lines and helplines: Jobcentre Plus Purchase to Pay Helpline—is for suppliers relating to queries Jobcentre Plus Contact Centre Directorate (CCD) around payments for goods and services. It also receives calls operates 20 service lines: from Jobcentre Plus advisers and claimants seeking clarification on payments made to support people back to work. This line is First Contact—where members of the public contact us to operated by approximately 13 staff and costs £290,000 per annum. make a new claim to benefit; Bank Liaison Section—is an internal helpline and receives Crisis Loans (for living expenses)—where claimants contact us calls from Pension Centre or Jobcentre Plus staff requesting that to apply for a crisis loan; the Bank Liaison Section recalls a payment from a bank account. Employer Direct—where employers contact us to place a This line is operated by approximately five staff and costs £110,000 vacancy; per annum. 105W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 106W

Third party payments helpline—is a helpline for third party Method of Payment Reform service—for customers who receive creditors, for example utilities companies and local authorities, their state pension or pension credit via cheque or giro cheque querying payments made to them following deductions made and need to change their payment method to direct payment to a from benefits. This line is operated by approximately 2.5 staff and bank account; and costs £55,000 per annum. Overseas Healthcare Team—for customers making inquiries The Purchase to Pay and Payment Resolution Service about health care abroad. This is includes applying for, renewing estimated non staff annual costs are £128,508. This and make changes to a European Health Insurance Card. It is means that overall this service will cost £583,508 this also an advice line for customers who are travelling abroad as well operational year. as a helpline for NHS and insurance workers. Employee Services operates three internal service lines PDCS budgets are calculated by Pension Centre rather and helplines for DWP employees to raise HR and than by function and staff perform both telephony and payroll queries: processing duties, which means that it is not possible to provide a breakdown by service line nor how much Simple queries are answered at the first point of contact and funding of £1.510 million has been provided for this year. funding is given to their telephony services. PDCS have an overall budget of £155 million for this operational More complex queries are handled by specialist caseworkers year. and funding of £169,000 has been provided for this year. An external recruitment helpline is operated for candidates Carers allowance—for customers who have caring responsibilities applying for externally advertised posts. Due to the civil service for a disabled person and deals with all inquiries, including new recruitment freeze no funding has been provided for this activity claims. This service line has a budget of £3.5 million for this for 2011-12. operational year and includes staff and non-staff costs. Employee Services estimated non-staff annual costs Disability Living Allowance/Attendance Allowance Helpline—deals with all inquiries, including new claims, for disability living allowance are £299,520. This means that overall this service will and attendance allowance. This service line has a budget of cost £1,978,520 this operational year. £8.7 million for this operational year and includes staff and Debt Management does not operate any helplines non-staff costs. but has three service lines: Benefit Enquiry Line (BEL)—is a helpline for people with Debt Recovery—is for customers to make enquiries about new disabilities, their carers and representatives, offering confidential or ongoing debt cases; advice and general information on all benefits and how to claim them. This service line has a budget of £1.1 million for this Debt Payment—debt customers are able to make direct payments operational year and includes staff and non-staff costs. through debit card transactions; and Recovery from Estates—is for inquiries regarding debt recovery Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission (CMEC) from a deceased customer’s estate. CMEC operates a national helpline which is for Debt Management’s overall budget for this year is clients and stakeholders to ask case specific or general £6,902,967 and this is broken down into £6,121,755 for inquiries. The budget is £6.25 million and covers the staff costs and £781,212 for non-staff costs. cost of people employed by the helpline, plus expenses. Pension Disability and Carers Service (PDCS) It does not include overhead items such as IT or accommodation as these budgets are controlled centrally. PDCS operates 16 helplines and service lines: State Pension New Claims—where members of the public contact us to claim their state pension; Employment and Support Allowance: Appeals Pension Credit New Claims—for customers who have an inquiry relating to pension credit. This includes checking entitlement, making a new claim or progressing a claim which they have Fiona O’Donnell: To ask the Secretary of State for already started; Work and Pensions what recent assessment he has State Pension Changes—for customers who are in receipt of made of the average length of time employment and their state pension and wish to inform PDCS of a change of support allowance claimants wait for their appeal to be circumstances; heard. [68119] Pension Credit Changes—for customers who are in receipt of their pension credit and wish to inform PDCS of a change of circumstances; Chris Grayling: At the end of May 2011, there was an average total of 32.6 weeks between an appeal being Bereavement Service—for customers who are calling to report bereavement, this provides advice and support on how to cease submitted to the Department of Work and Pensions benefits; and a final decision being made by Her Majesty’s Future Pension Centre—for members of the public at working Courts and Tribunals Service (HMCTS). age who want a pension forecast; The average time between the Department receiving National Pension Centre—or customers who are in receipt of the appeal and it being passed to HMCTS was 8.1 weeks. state pension and are above a certain age who wish to make a During this time, the Department looks at the case query about their claim or report a change of circumstances; again to ensure it is fully satisfied its original decision International Pension Centre—for customers who are living was correct. abroad and are in receipt of state pension; The average time between HMCTS receiving an appeal Tell Us Once service—is undertaking a phased roll-out approach from the Department for Work and Pensions and the and allows customers who live within certain local authorities to appeal being heard was 24.5 weeks. During this period, give details of bereavement and this will notify all other affected authorities of the bereavement; HMCTS contacts the appellant to ensure that they have an opportunity to submit any additional evidence they Winter Fuel—for customers who have a query relating to winter fuel. This service is only available within the months of believe will support their appeal. November to March; It is important to ensure that all parties have time to Pension Tracing Service—for customers who have lost details fully consider the facts of the case and provide any of a pension scheme which they were previously contributing to; further evidence they believe may be relevant. 107W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 108W

Employment and Support Allowance: Bexley Work programme contracts to tell us how they would fully meet the diverse needs of all participants including Mr Evennett: To ask the Secretary of State for Work those from black, Asian and ethnic minority groups. and Pensions what the average length of time is for which employment and support allowance applicants Employment Services in Bexleyheath and Crayford have waited for (a) a medical assessment and (b) an appeal hearing in the Mr Frank Field: To ask the Secretary of State for last 12 months. [67452] Work and Pensions what the (a) status and (b) purpose is of the Transforming Labour Market Chris Grayling: Information on the Work Capability Services Programme; and if he will make a statement. Assessment and appeals process is not available at [68122] parliamentary constituency level. The information requested is therefore presented for (a) the Bexley local authority Chris Grayling: The information requested is as follows. area, and (b) appeals administered by Her Majesty’s (a) The Transforming Labour Market Services Project is Courts and Tribunal Service office serving the Bexleyheath currently in the final stages of a commercial process to select a and Crayford area. supplier and will announce the selection in September. Providing the Project receives the necessary approvals, the new service is In the last 12-month period for which figures are expected to go live in spring 2012. available (September 2000 to August 2010), for new (b) Transforming Labour Market Services is one of the cornerstone claims to employment and support allowance in Bexley, projects of the Department for Work and Pensions digitalisation the average time between the claim start date and the and business transformation agenda and will deliver a web-based date Jobcentre Plus provided the decision on the initial vacancy taking, filling and automated job matching service. Work Capability Assessment (WCA) was 113 days, or It is an important foundation for universal credit, 16 weeks. encouraging jobseekers and business to use and become ESA appeals are submitted to Jobcentre Plus and are comfortable with, online channels in their transactions then passed to Her Majesty’s Courts and Tribunals with the Department. It will also make an important Service (HMCTS). Within the Bexleyheath and Crayford contribution to the Department’s efficiency savings. area, appeals are dealt with by the HMCTS administrative It will create an improved and integrated service office in Sutton and are heard by a Social Security and where employers can directly manage their job vacancies Child Support (SSCS) tribunal in Bexleyheath. online, jobseekers can manage their job seeking profile In the last 12-month period for which figures are online, and both can receive automated matches based available (June 2010 to May 2011) the average time on their requirements. between Jobcentre Plus receiving the appeal and it being passed to the HMCTS administrative office Sutton Foreign Workers was 9.9 weeks. During this time, Jobcentre Plus staff look at the case again to ensure they are fully satisfied David Wright: To ask the Secretary of State for Work the original decision was correct, in the same period, and Pensions what companies holding contracts with the average time between HMCTS receiving an appeal his Department have submitted proposals to offshore from the Jobcentre Plus and the appeal being heard at work in the last 12 months. [68605] the SSCS tribunal in Bexleyheath was 19.1 weeks. During this period, HMCTS contacts the appellant to ensure Chris Grayling: The Department requires that contracted that they have an opportunity to submit any additional suppliers consult with the Department where it is proposed evidence they believe will support their appeal. to store or process any of the Department’s information The Department for Work and Pensions regularly outside of the UK. Details of the individual suppliers publishes official statistics on employment and support that have consulted with the Department with regard to allowance and the WCA. The latest report was published such proposals are commercially sensitive. Separately, in April 2011 and can be found on the internet at the the Department is exploring how future offshoring can following link: be minimised and whether jobs currently offshored http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/workingage/esa_wca/ could potentially be moved back to the UK. index.php?page=esa_wca_arc Housing Benefit Employment Schemes Sheila Gilmore: To ask the Secretary of State for Rushanara Ali: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (1) if he will make it his policy to Work and Pensions whether he has issued guidance to review regularly the relationship between housing Work programme prime providers to ensure the use of benefit and actual rents and changing the calculations local, specialist and Black, Asian and Ethnic Minority of housing support where there is a divergence; [68233] providers in their sub-contracts and supply chain. (2) what process housing benefit will be uprated [68707] under universal credit; and what steps he plans to take to ensure that housing benefit rates take account of Chris Grayling: The Department for Work and Pensions trends in rental costs. [68232] cannot discriminate in favour of any particular organisation or group. Also, we did not specify the types of organisations Steve Webb: In the private rented sector, we have that should be engaged in the Work programme supply begun and will continue to make reforms to the local chain as these are commercial decisions for prime providers. housing allowance approach. We have already announced We did, however, ask organisations invited to tender for our intention to limit increases in housing support in 109W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 110W line with the consumer prices index (CPI) from April 2013 way that protects their financial position, and we plan and this will ensure that we continue to exert downward to retain a facility for direct payments to social landlords, pressure on rents. including charities. We have commissioned independent, external research We do recognise that, in encouraging more people to to evaluate the impact of the reforms to housing benefit manage their own budgets, there may well be a need for announced in the June 2010 Budget and the spending additional financial education and support. We are review. The review will be comprehensive and thorough considering precisely what additional support services and will be presented to both Houses together with a might be required in the run up to universal credit. ministerial statement. We intend to make final findings available in 2013 with initial findings available during 2012. Housing Benefit: Greater London We are committed to making savings from the measure to uprate LHA by CPI until 2014-15, but if it then Jeremy Corbyn: To ask the Secretary of State for becomes apparent that local housing allowance rates Work and Pensions what the average level of payment and local market rents are out of step they can then be was under the housing benefit transitional payments reconsidered. scheme for each London borough in the latest period Support for housing costs is also an important element for which figures are available. [69079] of universal credit and we want to incorporate the features of the local housing allowance where it is Steve Webb: To support the 2011 housing benefit appropriate. Ministers are, however, still considering reforms we are providing an additional £10 million of the detailed design features of how housing costs will be discretionary housing payments (DHPs) during 2011-12 included within the overall universal credit framework. which has been allocated based on the Department’s estimates of the total gross reduction in housing benefit Mr Tom Clarke: To ask the Secretary of State for entitlement in each local authority. Work and Pensions when his Department expects to publish its consultation document on exempt We have also provided a further £4 million of transition accommodation rules; and if he will make a statement. funding during 2011-12 to support implementation [68447] initiatives. At the beginning of May we invited local authorities to bid for a proportion of the £4 million Steve Webb: We published the consultation document, transition fund available during 2011-12. We received “Housing Benefit Reform—Supported Accommodation” 67 bids most of which were joint bids between local on 19 July 2011 and this can be found on the DWP authorities. Individual bids were marked against set website at: criteria including value for money, innovation and how well they support the transition stages of change. http://www.dwp.gov.uk/consultations/2011/supported- housing.shtml A total of 10 bids were successful of which four were This was announced by written ministerial statement covering London boroughs and are listed as follows. on 19 July 2011, Official Report, columns 115-16WS. The consultation period runs until 9 October 2011. Bid Area covered Initiative Value (£) East London Tower Hamlets, Social lettings 294,875 Housing Waltham Forest, agency: provides free Justin Tomlinson: To ask the Secretary of State for Partnership Barking and service to landlords Work and Pensions (1) whether charities providing (lead LA is Dagenham, to avoid private housing for vulnerable adults will be able to Barking and Hackney, management costs Dagenham) Newham, and reduce rents; receive an individual’s housing benefit directly into Redbridge, City of support for tenants their bank account under his proposed changes to the London and whohavetomove benefit system; and if he will make a statement; [68939] Havering London Lambeth with Tenancy rescue 266,000 (2) what responsibilities elderly people in supported borough of voluntary sector service to support housing are to have for (a) managing their housing Lambeth groups in the area the most vulnerable benefit and (b) ensuring that their rent is paid appropriately to prevent under his proposed changes to the benefit system; homelessness London Barnet, Camden, Mobility settlement 525,000 [68940] borough of Enfield, Islington, service providing (3) whether individuals who are to be given charge of Haringey Westminster and monetary advice, Haringey support with rent their housing benefit payments are to be provided with negotiation and any financial education or assistance with their practical assistance personal finances. [68941] where people need to move London Local authority Advice workers; 216,526 Steve Webb: There are advantages in paying the housing borough of only portal for voluntary component to individuals, rather than the current system Brent sector to help of payments direct to landlords. This would encourage support claimants people to manage their own budget in the same way as other households. Additionally, we do not want to take All local authorities were advised of their individual away responsibilities for rent payment that tenants have allocation of DHP funding during 2011-12 on 2 February handled perfectly well perhaps all their working lives. 2011 However, we also recognise the importance of stable http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/s2-2011.pdf rental income for social landlords to support the delivery Allocations of DHP funding and transition funding of new homes. We are developing universal credit in a for future years will be decided later this year. 111W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 112W

Jeremy Corbyn: To ask the Secretary of State for number of proactive workplace inspections as a result Work and Pensions what estimate he has made of the of changes to the Health and Safety Executive’s number of recipients of housing benefit in each budget. [68236] London borough whose rent level is greater than their entitlement to local housing allowance; and if he will Chris Grayling: No. The reduction in the number of make a statement. [69085] proactive workplace inspections is a matter of policy. I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave on 11 July Steve Webb: The requested information is not available 2011, Official Report, column 32W. at local authority level. However, the Department has Katy Clark: To ask the Secretary of State for Work made available on its website statistics on the number of and Pensions pursuant to the answer of 11 July 2011, housing benefit claimants assessed under local housing Official Report, column 34W, on industrial accidents, allowance rules, who are experiencing a shortfall between what criteria the Government uses to monitor the their housing benefit and contractual rent, by Government effectiveness of (a) proactive workplace inspections office region. The table shows that, as at March 2010, in and (b) incident inspections conducted by the Health London 38%, which at the time was equivalent to and Safety Executive. [68237] 61,000 claimants, were experiencing a shortfall. This information was included in the ad hoc analysis Chris Grayling: The Government do not use criteria publication titled ’LHA Regional Analysis’, which was for monitoring the effectiveness of HSE specifically in published on the DWP statistics website on 13 May relation to proactive workplace inspections and incident 2011. follow-up inspections on the number of industrial accidents http://statistics.dwp.gov.uk/asd/ because there is no reliable way of distinguishing their impact from other influences in the health and safety Local housing allowance rules changed on 1 April system. 2011. Customers who were receiving housing benefit according to local housing allowance rules at the time Jobcentre Plus: Closures these changes were introduced are receiving up to nine months transitional protection from the date their claim John McDonnell: To ask the Secretary of State for is reviewed by the local authority, allowing them more Work and Pensions (1) what estimate he has made of time to adjust to the changes. the potential savings to the public purse arising from the closure of Jobcentre Plus branches at (a) London Heathrow, (b) London Denmark Street, (c) London Industrial Health and Safety Harrow Station Road, (d) Camberwell, (e) Bluewater Recruitment Centre, (f) Chelmsford Beeches Road, (g) Edinburgh City, (h) Dundee Gellatly Street, (i) Aberdeen Katy Clark: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Chapel Street, (j) Glasgow Shawlands, (k) Glasgow and Pensions how the Health and Safety Executive City, (l) Glasgow Hillington, (m) Aylesbury Heron defines low-risk business environments. [68010] House, (n) Manchester Airport, (o) Manchester Trafford Centre, (p) Old Swan Merseyside, (q) Halifax Horton Chris Grayling: The Health and Safety Executive Street, (r) Leicester Highfields, (s) Caradog House, (HSE) has developed guidance and example risk Cardiff, (t) Banff and (u) Girvan; [68917] assessments primarily aimed at lower risk businesses. (2) when he expects Jobcentre Plus’s review of the HSE has been guided by the definition of risk as a jobcentre estate to be concluded; how many branches concept embodying a combination of likelihood and of Jobcentre Plus have been announced for closure as consequence. Therefore, low risk activities are those part of that review to date; what services are available where incidents have a low likelihood of occurring and from each branch announced for closure; and on what consequences are minor. date each branch will close; [68970] (3) which organisations Jobcentre Plus have encouraged Katy Clark: To ask the Secretary of State for Work to co-locate with its branches at (a) London Heathrow, and Pensions pursuant to the answer of 11 July 2011, (b) London Denmark Street, (c) London Harrow Station Official Report, column 37W, on industrial health and Road, (d) Camberwell, (e) Bluewater Recruitment Centre, safety, what the cost will be to the Health and Safety (f) Chelmsford Beeches Road, (g) Edinburgh City, (h) Executive (HSE) of the implementation of the Dundee Gellatly Street, (i) Aberdeen Chapel Street, (j) recommendations of Common Safety that it leads on in Glasgow Shawlands, (k) Glasgow City, (l) Glasgow each year to 2014-15; and what percentage of the HSE’s Hillington, (m) Aylesbury Heron House, (n) Manchester budget such cost represents in each such year. [68231] Airport, (o) Manchester Trafford Centre, (p) Old Swan Merseyside, (q) Halifax Horton Street, (r) Leicester Chris Grayling: The majority of the recommendations Highfields, (s) Caradog House, Cardiff, (t) Banff and falling to the Health and Safety Executive (HSE) from (u) Girvan. [68971] Common Sense Common Safety have already been delivered. Those that remain will be delivered within Chris Grayling: The estimated savings to the public existing HSE resources, in line with the HSE delivery purse of the 20 Jobcentre buildings identified for potential plan, and within the HSE 2010 spending review settlement. closure is £32.1 million over eight years (to 2017-18) at Net Present Value (NPV). Katy Clark: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Jobcentre Plus is endeavouring to become a leaner, and Pensions pursuant to the answer of 11 July 2011, more flexible and productive organisation that delivers Official Report, column 34W, on industrial accidents, more of its services over the telephone and internet. As whether he anticipates a reduction in the overall it implements more digital services and as unemployment 113W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 114W falls, Jobcentre Plus will be able to free up more capacity Glasgow Hillington is an employer only facility and the same in its estate. Face-to-face contact in Jobcentres will facilities can be offered from nearby Jobcentres in Glasgow. reduce as more services can be accessed online and Aylesbury Heron House provides the full Jobcentre service but through the simplification of the benefit system. there is an alternative Jobcentre within ½ mile at Sunley House, Aylesbury. While Jobcentre Plus does not anticipate announcing Manchester airport Jobshop is an employer only facility and any further closures this year, it will continuously review the same facilities can be offered from nearby Jobcentres in its estate so that efficiency savings and value for money Manchester city centre. for the taxpayer can be achieved. Jobcentre Plus will Manchester Trafford Centre Jobshop is an employer only also be working alongside its partners to explore every facility and the same facilities can be offered from nearby Jobcentres opportunity that might further reduce estates costs and in Manchester city centre. constantly monitoring its workloads and the impact of Old Swan, Liverpool provides a full Jobcentre service but there universal credit to assess the potential for further is an alternative Jobcentre within two miles at West Derby. rationalisation. Halifax Horton Street provides a full Jobcentre service but Since the estates review commenced (post 2010 spending there is an alternative Jobcentre within one mile (Halifax Crossfield). review), Jobcentre Plus has announced the closure or Leicester Highfields provides a full Jobcentre service but there consultation on the closure of 44 offices. are alternative Jobcentres within two miles at Charles Street and Wellington Street. On 13 May it was announced that 22 Benefit and Caradog House, Cardiff provides a full Jobcentre service but Contact Centres would close. Benefit Centres at Arbroath, there is an alternative Jobcentre within one mile (Charles Street, Ayr, Broadstairs, Cannock, Castleford, Chester, Exeter, Cardiff). Halifax, Huyton, Lincoln, Luton, Mansfield, Sutton in Birmingham airport Jobshop is an employer only facility and Ashfield, Totton and Yeovil will close by May 2012. the same facilities can be provided at nearby Jobcentres. Contact Centres at Caerphilly, Clydebank, Grimsby Prior to the announcement on 19 July, confidentiality (Europarc), Liverpool and Preston will close by May prevented Jobcentre Plus from progressing beyond high 2012. A further two Benefit Centres at Carlisle and level discussions with potential co-location partners at Hartlepool will close during 2012-13. the sites. Now that the announcement has been made, On 8 July Jobcentre Plus announced consultation on Jobcentre Plus is able to embark upon a six week the closure of Banff and Girvan Jobcentres and the consultation exercise with all of our customers, partners intention to move all staff and services into the premises and key stakeholders and the subject of co-location will of partner organisations in the respective towns. be an integral element of the exercise. Jobcentre Plus district managers have written to stakeholders to instigate On 19 July Jobcentre Plus announced that it had and encourage participation in the consultation exercise. identified 20 Jobcentre buildings which it believes it can close without reducing service standards and has embarked If it is concluded following consultation that the on a six week consultation period before taking a final closures should go ahead, typically they will close in 12 decision. The services that each provides is as follows: months unless a lease break enables earlier exit. London Heathrow Jobshop is an employer only facility and the same facilities for employers can be provided at a nearby Jobcentre Plus: Complaints Jobcentre in Hounslow. London Denmark Street Jobcentre is an employer only facility and the same facilities can be offered from nearby Jobcentres in Mr Frank Field: To ask the Secretary of State for Central London. Work and Pensions how many complaints have been made in relation to services provided by Jobcentre Plus London Harrow Station Road Jobcentre provides the full (a) by each claimant category and (b) in relation to Jobcentre service but there is an alternative Jobcentre within one [68262] mile (Harrow Kings House). each service since 1997. London Camberwell Jobcentre provides the full Jobcentre Chris Grayling: Jobcentre Plus was formed in April service but there are alternative Jobcentres within two miles at 2002, from the Benefits Agency and the Employment Peckham, Brixton and Kennington. Service. I cannot provide the information relating to The Bluewater Recruitment Centre is an employer only facility each claimant category and each service because we do and the same facilities can be offered from nearby Jobcentres in not record in that way. Information is only available Kent. since 2004-05 in the following table: Chelmsford Beeches Road is an annex to the main Jobcentre in Complaints received by Jobcentre Plus the town and customers are only seen here by appointment. Number Edinburgh City provides the full Jobcentre service but there is an alternative Jobcentre within two miles (High Riggs). 2004-05 34,430 2005-06 33,350 Dundee Gellatly Street provides the full Jobcentre service but 2006-07 46,578 there is an alternative Jobcentre within one mile (Wellgate, Dundee). 2007-08 45,852 Aberdeen Chapel Street provides the full Jobcentre service but 2008-09 45,202 there is an alternative Jobcentre within ½ mile at Edbury House, 2009-10 60,201 Aberdeen. 2010-11 63,302 Glasgow Shawlands is an employer only facility and the same facilities can be offered from nearby Jobcentres in Glasgow. The rise in complaints is consistent with the rise in Glasgow City provides the full Jobcentre service but there is an the volume of claimants Jobcentre Plus was dealing alternative Jobcentre within two miles (Partick). with. 115W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 116W

Jobcentre Plus: Pay Sir Gerald Kaufman: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions when he plans to answer the letter Mr Frank Field: To ask the Secretary of State for from the Rt. hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton of Work and Pensions what incentives and bonus 31 May 2011 regarding Mrs M Saleem. [68911] payments are available for personal advisers in Jobcentre Plus centres; how those incentives and Chris Grayling: A reply was sent to the right hon. payments are structured; and if he will make a Member on 14 June 2011. statement. [68124] Mortgages: Government Assistance Chris Grayling: The employee rewards scheme that Jobcentre Plus operates for its personal advisers are the Mr Tom Clarke: To ask the Secretary of State for same as those that run throughout the Department for Work and Pensions what assessment he has made of Work and Pensions (DWP); which Jobcentre Plus is a the effect of changes to Support for Mortgage Interest part of. on the Home Ownership for People with Long-term They comprise of an end of year non-consolidated Disabilities model; and if he will make a statement. performance pay and an in-year special awards. [68448] DWP employees below the senior civil service are eligible for an annual individual non-consolidated Steve Webb: We published an equality impact assessment performance payment if they attain a rating of Wholly to accompany the regulations which introduced the Exceptional or Consistently Good under the People change to the standard interest rate. It can be found at: Performance system. The actual payment awarded is http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/support-for-mortgage- determined by the employee’s pay band and the interest.pdf performance level achieved. Information on the numbers of people in the HOLD Individuals may also be awarded a Special Award scheme receiving support for mortgage interest is not either as cash or retail vouchers. These are one-off available and no specific assessment has been made of recognition awards, payable at any time during the the effect of the changes on the HOLD model. The performance year, to recognise exceptional achievements Department for Communities and Local Government beyond what would normally be expected. is responsible for the policy for the HOLD scheme. Support for mortgage interest is intended to provide Jobcentre Plus: Standards a reasonable level of help for homeowners and has never been intended to cover all of a person’s housing Mr Frank Field: To ask the Secretary of State for liabilities or to meet mortgage repayments in full. The Work and Pensions what metrics are used to assess the fluctuating nature of the standard interest rate has been performance of personal advisers in Jobcentre Plus; a key design feature since 1995, so rate increases and what the latest figures are for performance against decreases are not new. It has always been the claimant’s those metrics in each region; and if he will make a responsibility to meet any shortfalls. All individuals statement. [68126] applying to the HOLD scheme must be able to demonstrate to their mortgage lender and the housing association Chris Grayling: Individual Adviser Performance is provider that they are able to meet the cost of buying assessed via our Performance Management Framework their share and that they can sustain the financial which consists of a series of agreed objectives and responsibilities that home ownership brings. competencies. Within these objectives there is an expectation that advisers will spend 70% of their available time Pensioners: Cost of Living interacting with claimants and undertake a series of appropriate actions to support them to move closer to Sir Alan Beith: To ask the Secretary of State for and into work. These metrics are managed at jobcentre Work and Pensions what consideration he has given to level and are not aggregated to district or group level. the reliability of the Consumer Prices Index as a Jobcentre Plus is currently developing a new productivity measure of inflation for pensioners, particularly in measure (Average Adviser Contact Minutes per day) to respect of mortgage interest. [68810] support the delivery of a more personalised service that will identify barriers and find ways to support claimants Steve Webb: We have concluded that the Consumer back to work within the guidance framework of our Prices Index (CPI) is a reliable measure of pensioners’ Service Delivery Model. This new measure is due to be experience of inflation for a number of reasons. published in early September. Firstly the CPI basket of goods does not include mortgage interest payments, which are not relevant to Members: Correspondence the majority of pensioners, only 8% of whom have a mortgage. The inclusion of mortgage interest payments Sir Gerald Kaufman: To ask the Secretary of State for in the Retail Prices Index (RPI) led to negative RPI Work and Pensions when he plans to answer the letter growth of -1.4 per cent in the year to September 2009, from the right hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton of whereas the CPI showed 1.1 per cent growth during the 12 May 2011 regarding Ms S Prior. [68910] same period. The CPI includes the expenditure of pensioner Chris Grayling: A reply was sent to the right hon. households who receive 75% or more of their income Member on 25 May 2011. from the state, a group excluded from the RPI. 117W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 118W

The CPI also employs a methodology that is a more Chris Grayling: The Department for Work and Pensions accurate reflection of how consumers, including pensioners, presently does not hold sector specific contractual respond to price rises, than the methodology employed information for such sectors as retailing/catering/ in the RPI. industrial/services. The information is either not available or not held centrally and could be obtained only at Pensions disproportionate cost. Yasmin Qureshi: To ask the Secretary of State for Social Security Benefits Work and Pensions whether an individual receiving the average rate of earnings who has made full national Dr Whiteford: To ask the Secretary of State for Work insurance contributions will be better or worse off and Pensions whether his Department plans to change under his plans for a flat rate pension. [68858] its administrative structure as a result of proposed reforms to the benefits system. [66743] Maria Miller: The Government’s consultation paper, ‘Astate pension for the 21st century’, sets out two broad Chris Grayling: The welfare system is currently options for reform to simplify the state pension and undergoing the biggest reform in fifty years, making it better support retirement saving. It also examines options simpler and more efficient and helping make work pay. for a more automatic mechanism for determining future As such it will necessitate a change in the administrative changes to state pension age in order to ensure that the structure of DWP.We are currently working to establish state pension remains sustainable and affordable. what form the new structure will take. The public consultation began on 4 April 2011 and closed on 24 June 2011. A summary of responses to the John McDonnell: To ask the Secretary of State for consultation was published on 27 July 2011 and can be Work and Pensions what estimate he has made of the accessed via the following web link: number of households that will be affected by the www.dwp.gov.uk/state-pension-21st-century proposed benefit cap in which (a) an adult or (b) a child is present who is recognised as a disabled person As policy development is still under way, it is not under the provisions of the Disability Discrimination possible to provide further detail at this stage. If the Act 2010, but does not qualify for disability living Government decide to take these proposals further, the allowance; what consideration he has given to publication of a White Paper and impact assessment providing exemptions in such circumstances; and if he would follow as part of the usual process. will make a statement. [68034] Personal Independence Payment Chris Grayling: Our analysis of the impacts of the Tom Blenkinsop: To ask the Secretary of State for cap on disabled people was set out in the Equality Work and Pensions what assessment he has made of Impact Assessment we published in March 2011. This the effect of his proposed personal independence shows that of the 50,000 households we estimate the payment on vulnerable adults with moderate and low cap will affect, approximately half are likely to contain somebody who is disabled as defined by the Disability care needs. [68041] Discrimination Act 2010. Maria Miller: The Government are in the process of We have announced that households that include a developing the detailed criteria that will be used in the member who is entitled to disability living allowance new assessment to determine eligibility for personal will be exempt from the cap. This is in recognition that independence payment. We are currently carrying out disability living allowance is paid to people to help with an informal consultation on the draft criteria to seek the extra costs arising from their disability. Not everyone the views of disabled people and their organisations on defined as disabled by the Disability Discrimination how they will work and how they might be improved. Act will have extra costs that the Government would We are also testing them by carrying out around 1,000 expect to meet through the benefit system. sample assessments over the summer. The testing will The mitigation for recipients of disability living allowance help us to better understand the likely effect of the means that approximately 30,000 customers who are criteria, including the effect on those vulnerable adults disabled as defined by the Disability Discrimination with low to moderate needs. We intend to publish a Act, who would otherwise be impacted by the cap, are second draft of the assessment criteria in the autumn, exempted from its effects. following consideration of the consultation findings and testing results. John McDonnell: To ask the Secretary of State for The Government published an impact assessment Work and Pensions what representations he has and equality impact assessment on DLA reform with received from local authorities on the potential effects the Welfare Reform Bill which are available in the of his proposed household benefit cap on demand for Library. As more detailed design is completed estimates (a) school places, (b) housing and (c) children’s of the impact of the new assessment on people receiving services; and if he will make a statement. [68037] DLA will be made. Chris Grayling: As part of the Department for Work Procurement and Pension’s (DWP) consultation on the overall welfare reform package we have received a number of broad Mr Denham: To ask the Secretary of State for Work representations from local authorities on the potential and Pensions what the annual value is of his effects of the reforms on demand for housing. Department’s current contracts in each sector in which Representations about school places and children’s services contracts are held. [66586] would be referred to the Department for Education. 119W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 120W

The DWP has a statutory obligation to ensure that John McDonnell: To ask the Secretary of State for local authorities are kept abreast of benefit policy and Work and Pensions what estimate he has made of the strategy developments that affect them and have the number of households with children in kinship care opportunity, where possible, to help shape them. likely to be affected by the proposed benefit cap; what consideration he has given to exemption in such John McDonnell: To ask the Secretary of State for circumstances; and if he will make a statement. [68157] Work and Pensions what estimate he has made of the number of households living in temporary accommodation Chris Grayling: Information on the number of provided by a local authority who will be affected by his households with children in kinship care likely to be proposed household benefit cap; what consideration he affected by the proposed benefit cap is not available. has given to providing exemptions in such circumstances; and if he will make a statement. [68038] We have announced that households which contain a member who is entitled to disability living allowance or Steve Webb: Information on the number of households constant attendance allowance or is eligible for working living in temporary accommodation provided by a local tax credit will be exempt from the benefit cap as will war authority who will be affected by the proposed household widows and widowers. We have also said that we are benefit cap is not available. looking at ways of easing the transition for families and providing assistance in hard cases. We have announced that households which contain a member who is entitled to disability living allowance or Any payments kinship carers receive from the local constant attendance allowance or is eligible for working authority are not payments of social security benefit tax credit will be exempt from the benefit cap as will war and so will not be included in calculations for the widows and widowers. We have also said that we are purposes of the benefit cap. looking at ways of easing the transition for families and providing assistance in hard cases. Social Security Benefits: Appeals John McDonnell: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions if he will estimate the number of Mrs McGuire: To ask the Secretary of State for Work couple households with children who would be affected and Pensions what recent assessment his Department by the proposed benefit cap but would cease to be has made of trends in the workload of GPs arising affected by the benefit cap if they terminated their from the provision of evidential support to appeals relationships and evenly distributed the residency of against decisions in disability living allowance and the children between two separate parental households; employment and support allowance. [68048] and if he will make a statement. [68039] Chris Grayling: DWP obtains medical evidence whenever Chris Grayling: The introduction of the household necessary as part of the decision making process when benefit cap is intended to achieve long term positive deciding entitlement to benefit. If a claimant decides to behavioural effects through changed attitudes to welfare, appeal against the decision they may obtain further responsible life choices and strong work incentives. medical evidence from clinicians involved in their care, The financial position of couples living together versus and this may include their GP. their position apart would depend largely on the cost of DWP has not undertaken any recent assessment of accommodation in either situation. There is a wide trends in GP workload arising from provision of medical variation in the cost of accommodation in this country, evidence to support appeals against decisions in disability and so it is not possible to say whether such couples living allowance or employment and support allowance. would be better, or worse off by altering their living arrangements in this way. Mrs McGuire: To ask the Secretary of State for Work John McDonnell: To ask the Secretary of State for and Pensions what assessment he has made of trends in Work and Pensions what estimate he has made of the the time taken for GPs to respond to requests for (a) number of households who will be affected by the information as evidence in applications for disability (b) proposed benefit cap during periods of worklessness living allowance and employment and support lasting less than (a) 26 weeks, (b) 13 weeks and (c) allowance. [68067] four weeks; what consideration he has given to exemption in such circumstances; and if he will make a Chris Grayling: When deciding benefit entitlement it statement. [68156] is essential that the right decision is reached. Up to date and relevant information is central to this process. Chris Grayling: If the benefit cap were applied in full, DWP may seek information from a number of sources as announced in the spending review 2010 we estimate that includes the patient, carers, relatives and friends that it will affect approximately 50,000 households. and professionals involved in the claimant’s care. We have announced that households which contain a Wherever possible, information collection is kept to a member who is entitled to disability living allowance or minimum but at times professional reports to substantiate constant attendance allowance or is eligible for working claims are needed, and in these circumstances a request tax credit will be exempt from the benefit cap as will war for further medical evidence may be made to the GP. widows and widowers. DWP has not undertaken any assessment of trends in We have also said that we are looking at ways of the time taken for GPs to respond to requests for easing the transition for families and providing assistance medical evidence for either disability living allowance or in hard cases. employment and support allowance. 121W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 122W

In claims for employment and support allowance, if a I have not had any discussions with business GP fails to provide a written report on request, there representatives to reduce demand for migrant workers. are mechanisms in place for a health care professional to telephone the GP if it is considered that that the information is essential. Mrs Main: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions pursuant to the contribution by the Minister for Pensions of 12 July 2011, Official Report, column Social Security Benefits: British Nationals Abroad 75WH, on benefits (EU nationals), how many habitual residency requests have been granted to applicants who Mr Andrew Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for have been resident in the UK for less than (a) three Work and Pensions what steps his Department takes to months, (b) six months, (c) nine months and (d) a check the entitlement of partners and children resident year in each year since 2004. [68777] in other EU member states whose benefits are topped up by the UK because of national insurance contributions made by a family member working in the Chris Grayling: The information requested is not UK. [67860] available. Justine Greening: I have been asked to reply. Information is collected from claimants to help benefit An EU/EEA national who is working in the UK, decision-makers decide whether a person’s habitually paying compulsory UK national insurance contributions resident, including the length of time someone has lived and is entitled to UK family benefits by virtue of EC in the UK prior to making their claim for benefit. regulation 883/2004 in respect of a child or children Information in these circumstances is usually gathered resident in another member state must provide documentary by interviewing the claimant. However, as habitual residence evidence of the child or children being claimed for, such is not a condition of entitlement, and while this information as an original birth or adoption certificate. is collected and passed to decision-makers in considering In addition, where a claim is considered under the EC habitual residence, it is not recorded on our benefit regulation, HMRC will carry out further checks with processing systems, and we are therefore unable to the authorities of the other member state to confirm the provide any information relating to this. composition of the family, whether the other parent is working there and whether that member state is paying The term ’habitual residence’ is not defined in social family benefits. These checks are carried out by all security legislation. This means that each case is considered competent institutions in the member states when on its own merits, in the light of the person’s individual considering claims to their family benefits under the EC circumstances. In deciding whether a person is actually regulation. Payments of UK family benefits, whether at habitually resident, decision-makers consider a wide the full rate or at a lower supplementary rate, are not variety of factors. These include reasons for coming to made until the other member state has provided the the United Kingdom, the length of their stay, future necessary confirmation. intentions, previous links with the country and, in the case of people returning to the United Kingdom, the reasons for their absence. DWP guidance, based on case Social Security Benefits: EU Nationals law, suggests that a period of between one and three months is likely to be appropriate to demonstrate that a person’s residence is habitual in nature. Mrs Main: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions pursuant to the contribution by the Minister for Pensions of 12 July 2011, Official Report, column 73WH, on benefits (EU nationals), what the Mrs Main: To ask the Secretary of State for Work evidential basis is of his statement that it is not possible and Pensions pursuant to the contribution by the Minister to prevent skilled migrant workers from working in less for Pensions of 12 July 2011, Official Report, column demanding jobs; and what discussions he has had with 76WH, on benefits (EU nationals), what the minimum representatives of UK businesses on steps to reduce level of national insurance contributions is that workers demand for migrant workers. [68776] have to make in order to be eligible for benefits that require national insurance contributions at the (a) higher and (b) lower national insurance contribution rate. Chris Grayling: EU Regulation 492/2011 (formerly Regulation 1612/68), on the freedom of movement of [68778] workers within the EU, guarantees migrant workers equality of treatment with nationals of the host country in respect of the right to take up an activity as an Chris Grayling: EU nationals take the same steps to employed person and full and free access to the host claim contribution-based benefits as UK nationals. If country labour market. This means the majority of an EU migrant worker’s UK national insurance record migrant workers from the EU have the right to take up is not sufficient to meet the contribution conditions for available employment in the UK on the same basis as benefit, the UK will use their social insurance payments UK workers. However, there are transitional restrictions in another EU member state to help. EU law requires us in place for nationals of the newest EU member states, to ask benefit claimants about whether they have worked Bulgaria and Romania, and the Government are committed elsewhere in Europe. to introducing transitional controls on nationals of all new EU member states as a matter of course. The following tables outline the domestic position. 123W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 124W

Employment and support allowance (ESA) and jobseeker’s allowance Bereavement benefits (JSA) Widowed parent’s allowance (WPA) and Benefit bereavement allowance Bereavement payment (BA) (BP)

First Late spouse or civil Class 1 (employee), New First From 1 November 2010, all new customers claiming Contribution partner must have Class 2 (self-employed) Contribution contributory ESA and JSA will only qualify for benefit Condition (only actually paid or have or Class 3 (voluntary) Condition if they have paid contributions on earnings equivalent condition for been deemed to have contributions of at to the Lower Earnings Limit for at least 26 weeks. BP) paid in any one tax least 25 times the Further changes were made to the number of relevant year a minimum weekly Lower Earnings tax years in which a person can pay national insurance amount of Limit in any one tax contributions and qualify for ESA by reducing them contributions, year. from three years to two, which aligns with JSA. currently 52 times the National insurance contributions will need to have Lower Earnings Limit been paid in one of the two tax years prior to the for the year in 1 claim . As a result, people will need to have worked question. for at least 26 weeks in one of the last two complete tax years to claim either benefit. Second The late spouse or civil Contribution partner must have paid Condition or been credited ESA New First Condition This Second Contribution contributions for about must be satisfied in at Condition For each of the 90% of the years in least one of the last two previous two tax years, a their working life. The complete tax years claimant must have been allowance or pension is before the start of the paid or credited with Class reduced if the benefit year that a claim 1 or Class 2 contributions “qualifying years” are is made. Paid or treated on earnings of 50 times the less than this—with no as paid 26 Class 1 Lower Earnings Limit for payment below 25%. contributions above the that tax year. People entitled to WPA Lower Earnings Limit; can also get between 26 Class 2 contributions; 50% and 100% of their or a mixture of Class 1 late spouse or civil and 2 contributions partner’s Additional totalling 26 times the State Pension. Lower Earnings Limit Note: Entitlement to additional state pension arises where in a tax forthatyear. year the individual paid or is treated as having paid national insurance contributions as an employee on earnings of more than 52 times the JSA First Contribution Second Contribution Lower Earnings Limit for that tax year. Condition This must be Condition For each of the satisfied in at least one previous two tax years, a Social Security Benefits: Expenditure of the last two complete claimant must have been tax years before the start paid or credited with Class of the benefit year that 1 contributions on earnings Mr Frank Field: To ask the Secretary of State for a claim is made. Paid of 50 times the Lower Work and Pensions how much social security spending or treated as paid 26 Earnings Limit for that tax within Total Managed Expenditure was spent on (a) Class 1 contributions of year. Does not include Class working and (b) non-working people in each year at least the Lower 2 contributions. since 1997; what proportion of such spending was on Earnings Limit. This must be satisfied in at each benefit; and if he will make a statement. [68121] least one of the last two complete tax years Chris Grayling: The available information has been before the start of the placed in the Library. benefit year2 that a claim is made. Does not include Class 2 Mr Frank Field: To ask the Secretary of State for contributions (self- Work and Pensions how much social security spending employed within total managed expenditure was spent on (a) contributions). working age and (b) non-working age people in each year since 1997; and if he will make a statement. 1 Certain low paid people who earn above the lower earnings limit [68128] and below the single person tax threshold are treated as having paid NI contributions. 2 A benefit year commences on the first Sunday in January and ends on the Saturday before the first Sunday of the Chris Grayling: The information requested is shown following year. To establish entitlement you look at the contributions in the following tables. paid in the relevant tax years preceding the benefit year in which the DWP benefit expenditure claim is made. £ billion, nominal Bereavement benefits Working age Non-working age Total

Widowed parent’s 1997-98 45.2 48.1 93.3 allowance (WPA) and 1998-99 45.1 50.4 95.6 bereavement allowance Bereavement payment 1999-2000 45.2 53.8 99.0 (BA) (BP) 2000-01 44.2 57.1 101.4 2001-02 45.4 61.3 106.7 National Entitlement subject to the late spouse or civil partner 2002-03 46.9 63.4 110.3 insurance— satisfying certain contribution conditions. 2003-04 39.4 66.4 105.8 basic condition 125W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 126W

DWP benefit expenditure In the period 2 November 2009 to 14 July 2011 the £ billion, nominal Department obtained 1,188 arrest warrants in cases Working age Non-working age Total where a defendant failed to attend a hearing or trial without an explanation acceptable to the court. During 2004-05 39.8 71.3 111.1 the same period, 869 arrest warrants were executed, 2005-06 40.3 75.5 115.8 leaving 319 outstanding. 2006-07 41.2 78.0 119.2 2007-08 42.6 83.3 125.9 I have deposited a table in the Library indicating the monetary value of each case. 2008-09 44.8 90.6 135.4 2009-10 50.9 96.6 147.6 Mr Evennett: To ask the Secretary of State for Work 2010-11 52.5 100.4 152.9 and Pensions what recent steps he has taken to prevent benefit tourism. [67454] £ billion, 2011-12 prices Working age Non-working age Total Chris Grayling: We have strict rules in place to prevent 1997-98 63.7 67.8 131.5 abuse of the benefit system by benefit tourism. One of 1998-99 62.3 69.6 131.9 the principal measures is the Habitual Residence Test. 1999-2000 61.2 72.8 134.1 People coming from abroad can claim income-related 2000-01 59.1 76.3 135.4 benefits only if they have a right to reside and are 1 2001-02 59.3 80.1 139.4 habitually resident in the Common Travel Area . Claimants 2002-03 59.4 80.3 139.6 are required to show that they are habitually resident in 2003-04 48.5 81.8 130.2 this country and have a settled intention to remain. Any 2004-05 47.7 85.4 133.1 exceptions (refugees, for example) are linked to the immigration status awarded by the Home Office. 2005-06 47.4 88.8 136.2 2006-07 46.9 88.8 135.7 To support staff in applying the Habitual Residence 2007-08 47.2 92.2 139.3 Test, we recently introduced an electronic data gathering 2008-09 48.2 97.6 145.8 form in Jobcentre Plus. The aim is to improve both the 2009-10 53.9 102.3 156.3 collection of information relevant to the test, and the 2010-11 54.0 103.3 157.3 quality of the decisions made in respect of it. Notes: In addition, I have commissioned work to look at 1. Figures are rounded to the nearest £0.1 billion, and may not sum making information available on the nationality of benefit due to rounding. claimants. These statistics will help us identify the extent 2. Figures are consistent with those published following the 2011 to which people from other countries are claiming Budget. Figures for 2010-11 are estimates and are subject to further revision. benefits in the UK. 3. Figures cover only benefits for which DWP and its predecessors Last month, in the EU Employment and Social Affairs had responsibility, and some elements of expenditure are no longer Council, I called for debate on economically inactive included in the figures due to being transferred to other Government Departments. migrants and their access to benefits—14 other member 4. “Working age benefits” are assumed to include those paid specifically states supported me, and have also joined the UK in in respect of children—principally Child Benefit (up to 2002-03, after seeking changes to EU regulations to prevent benefit which it was transferred to HM Revenue and Customs). tourism. Source Data: DWP statistical and accounting data We recognise that it is important that we provide Further benefit expenditure data can be found using support to people who come to this country, in line with the following address: our national and international obligations. However, it is also necessary to protect the taxpayer and the benefit http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd4/ index.php?page=expenditure system from possible abuse. We are committed to ensuring that the rules governing Social Security Benefits: Fraud the payment of benefits to people from abroad are kept under review. Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for Work 1 The UK, the Channel Islands, the Isle of Man, and the Republic and Pensions pursuant to the answer of 1 December of Ireland. 2010, Official Report, column 873W, on social security benefits: fraud, how many arrest warrants had been Social Security Benefits: Islington issued in cases where a defendant had failed to attend a hearing or trial without an explanation acceptable to the court on the most recent date for which figures are Jeremy Corbyn: To ask the Secretary of State for available; what the monetary value of the alleged fraud Work and Pensions how many people in Islington was in each such case; and how many such warrants North constituency were (a) in receipt of jobseeker’s were successfully executed in the latest period for which allowance, (b) in receipt of income support and (c) figures are available. [67108] not economically active or in receipt of benefits in each of the last 12 months for which information is Chris Grayling: The information requested could be available. [69086] provided only at disproportionate cost for the 550 cases referred to in the answer of 1 December 2010. However, Chris Grayling: The numbers of people in the Islington information is available for arrest warrants that have North constituency who are claiming jobseeker’s allowance, been issued since November 2009 when the data began income support and the total number of people who are to be captured electronically. receiving benefits are as follows: 127W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 128W

(c) Total number not (a) Number of jobseeker’s (b) Number of income Total number of benefit economically active or in allowance claimants support claimants claimants receipt of benefits

July 2010 3,984 — — — August 2010 3,959 6,250 12,860 — September 2010 3,948 — — 20,000 October 2010 3,865 — — — November 2010 3,876 6,020 12,560 — December 2010 3,780 — — 21,800 January 2011 3,871 — — — February 2011 3,827 — — — March 2011 3,772 — — — April 2011 3,911 — — — May 2011 3,896 — — — June 2011 3,869 — — —

The figures for jobseeker’s allowance claimants are Gordon Banks: To ask the Secretary of State for updated on our computer system on a monthly basis. Work and Pensions (1) what the total monetary value However, the numbers of other benefit claimants only was of employee national insurance contributions become available on our computer system after six made in 2010 by (a) men and (b) women who had months. already made payments for the necessary minimum number of qualifying years for a full state pension; State Retirement Pensions [68305] (2) how many (a) male and (b) female employees Gordon Banks: To ask the Secretary of State for who made national insurance contributions in 2010 Work and Pensions how many (a) women and (b) men had already made payments for the necessary qualifying for a full state pension in (i) 2008, (ii) 2009 minimum number of qualifying years for a full state and (iii) 2010 did so having paid national insurance pension. [68244] contributions in excess of the necessary minimum number of qualifying years. [68303] Steve Webb: Estimates are not available for the 2010-11 Steve Webb: The following table presents the estimated tax year. The latest available estimates are in the following number of UK and overseas residents qualifying for a table, for the 2008-09 tax year. full basic state pension in their own right by gender and tax year of state pension age, and the estimated number Men Women Total of individuals with more qualifying years than necessary Individuals paying Class 1 employee 13,950 12,330 26,270 for a full basic state pension. contributions in 2008-09 (thousand) Total paid (£ billion) 24.1 13.9 38.0 Tax year of state pension age Of whom: 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 Individuals already with entitlement to a 3,670 2,620 6,280 full basic state pension in their own right Individuals qualifying for a full basic (thousand) state pension in their own right (UK Total paid (£ billion) 7.3 3.3 10.6 and overseas residents) Notes: Men 260,000 270,000 310,000 1. Individuals are rounded to the nearest 10,000 individuals. Amounts are Women 120,000 130,000 120,000 rounded to the nearest £0.1 billion. Figures may not sum due to rounding. Total 380,000 390,000 440,000 2. Amounts are in cash terms. 3. People reaching state pension age from 6 April 2010 need 30 qualifying years for a full basic state pension. Men reaching state pension age before 6 Individuals with more qualifying years April 2010 usually need 44 qualifying years for a full basic state pension. than necessary for a full basic state Women reaching state pension age before 6 April 2010 usually need 39 pension (UK and overseas residents) qualifying years for a full basic state pension. 4. Class 1 employee contributions are paid on earnings from employment Men 250,000 250,000 310,000 above the Primary Threshold applicable in the tax year. Women 90,000 110,000 120,000 5. Contributions in excess of those required for a full basic state pension may Total 350,000 360,000 430,000 generate entitlement to additional state pension and working-age contributory benefits. Notes: Source: 1. Figures are rounded to the nearest 10,000 individuals. Figures may not sum HMRC and DWP Information Directorate, Lifetime Labour Market due to rounding. Database 2010, 1% sample administrative data (containing information on 2. People reaching state pension age from 6 April 2010 need 30 qualifying years contributions up to and including the 2008-09 tax year) for a full basic state pension. Men reaching state pension age before 6 April 2010 usually need 44 qualifying years for a full basic state pension. Women reaching state pension age before 6 April 2010 usually need 39 qualifying years for a full basic state pension. Unemployment: Greater London 3. Data are only available on contributions up to and including the 2008-09 tax year. People reaching state pension age in 2010-11 could also be awarded a qualifying year for the 2009-10 tax year. Hence the estimates in the table for the Rushanara Ali: To ask the Secretary of State for 2010-11 cohort are based on incomplete data. 4. Because of the increase in the state pension age for women born from 6 April Work and Pensions how many people were registered 1950, fewer women reached state pension age in 2010-11 than in 2009-10. as actively seeking work in jobcentres in (a) London, Source: (b) the London borough of Tower Hamlets and (c) DWP Information Directorate, Lifetime Labour Market Database 2010, 1% sample administrative data (containing information on contributions up to and Bethnal Green and Bow constituency between January including the 2008-09 tax year) and June 2011. [69076] 129W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 130W

Chris Grayling: The number of people who were We do not expect the switch to universal credit to registered as actively seeking work in London jobcentres, have a significant impact on a person’s capacity to pay the London borough of Tower Hamlets and the Bethnal child maintenance charges. However, the Department Green and Bow constituency between January and June will continue to reflect on and review the effect that 2011 are as follows: universal credit proposals have on the child maintenance reforms. 2011 Area January February March April May June Welfare to Work: Bethnal Green

London 214,613 219,958 220,857 226,182 225,714 224,391 jobcentres Rushanara Ali: To ask the Secretary of State for London 10,196 10,345 10,364 10,507 10,568 10,612 Work and Pensions which welfare-to-work organisations borough of operating in Bethnal Green and Bow constituency have Tower Hamlets a contract with his Department. [68706] Bethnal 5,286 5,302 5,320 5,380 5,429 5,452 Green and Chris Grayling: The following table lists the organisations Bow constituency that hold a contract for the delivery of contracted employment provision in Bethnal Green and Bow. Other Unemployment: Young People organisations may deliver employment services on an ad-hoc basis.

Julie Elliott: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Organisation Programme and Pensions what steps he is taking to reduce youth unemployment in (a) Sunderland Central Action for Employment Work Programme1 constituency, (b) Sunderland and (c) the North East. Seetec 1— [69146] Careers Development Group 1—

Chris Grayling: Work experience and apprenticeships Seetec Work Choice are central to improving the prospects of young unemployed people across the country. Action for Employment Jobcentre Plus Support Overall we are funding up to 100,000 work experience Contract placements over two years. This will enable young people to undertake a period of valuable work experience Seetec Mandatory Work Activity lasting between two and eight weeks. Claimants in the 18-24 age group are eligible for work experience and we Working Links Employment Zone (contracts recently announced the widening of eligibility to include end 1 September 2011)1 16 and 17-year-olds in receipt of jobseeker’s allowance. Reed in Partnership 1— Government are funding up to 250,000 more Avanta 1— apprenticeships in England over the next four years and we are strengthening the links between work experience Working Links New Deal (contract ends and apprenticeships. Later this year work experience 1 September 2011) placements will be extended by up to four weeks where employers make a firm offer of an apprenticeship and Tomorrow’s People European Social Fund that offer is accepted. (contracts end 27 July 2011) We have improved our package of support to provide 1 Indicates a brace earlier entry to the Work programme for more vulnerable Work Capability Assessment young people and are providing additional Jobcentre Plus help for 16 and 17-year-old jobseeker’s allowance claimants. The flexible support that Jobcentre Plus district Mrs Moon: To ask the Secretary of State for Work managers are putting in place is being bolstered with a and Pensions pursuant to the answer of 28 June 2011, series of Get Britain Working measures, the availability Official Report, column 653W, on employment support of which will vary across the country according to local allowance: work capability assessment, whether (a) circumstances and needs. changes in the severity of illness occurring in different phases of medication cycles and (b) the phase of a particular applicant’s medication cycle are taken into Universal Credit account during work capability assessments. [68823]

Kate Green: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Chris Grayling: Healthcare professionals take account and Pensions what assessment he has made of the of severity of the claimant’s medical conditions, any impact of the introduction of universal credit on his treatment they receive and fluctuations in the disabling proposals to charge parents with care who use the effects of the conditions both day to day and in the planned statutory maintenance service [68434] longer term as part of their assessment.

Chris Grayling: The Government announced in Work Capability Assessment: Appeals ‘Strengthening families, promoting parental responsibility: the future of child maintenance’, the intention to introduce Simon Hart: To ask the Secretary of State for Work charges for using the new statutory child maintenance and Pensions what the average time was between the service. initiation of an appeal against a decision on a work 131W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 132W capability assessment and the notification of the referred to the First-tier Tribunal. Appeals lodged with outcome of the appeal to the appellant in the latest the DWP can lapse if the disputed decision is revised in period for which figures are available. [61402] the customer’s favour upon reconsideration, or the customer can decide to withdraw their appeal prior to it being Chris Grayling: The information is not available in referred and in certain circumstances appeals can be the form requested. The Department for Work and struck out. Pensions (DWP) only records information from the HMCTS records average waiting times from the point point of initiation of an appeal to lodging that appeal of receipt with HMCTS to the outcome of the hearing. with Her Majesty’s Courts and Tribunals Service The following table shows the average time taken (HMCTS). While DWP counts the overall numbers of from submission of an appeal to DWP on a work appeals lodged, a number of these appeals will not be capability decision until a decision is issued by HMCTS.

Weeks April 2011 May 2011 Year to date1

ESA2 waiting time in DWP 6.48 6.56 6.52 IB3 waiting time in DWP 6.48 7.28 6.88 ESA waiting time in HMCTS 23.55 24.82 24.2 IB waiting time in HMCTS 27.15 27.58 27.37 1 Data covers from 1 April 2011 until 31 May 2011 (the latest period for which figures are available. 2 Employment and support allowance 3 Incapacity benefit

The DWP figures produced are internal management and that they understand what action they need to take, information for internal use only and do not form part and to find out if they need any extra help. We are now of the official statistics outputs that are released by the looking at extending this more personal treatment in Department in accordance with the UK Statistics response to Professor Harrington’s recommendations Authority’s Code of Practice. made in his recent report on the operation of the Work The average waiting times on a work capability Capability Assessment. assessment appeals for both ESA and IB cases are made Responsibility for administering appeals against decisions available within the “Social Security and Child Support on entitlement to benefits lies with Her Majesty’s Courts Statistics”which was published on 15 July on the HMCTS and Tribunals Service, which is an Executive Agency of website: the Ministry of Justice. The Ministry of Justice have http://www.justice.gov.uk/publications/statistics-and-data/ confirmed that they would be willing to refer any individual tribunals/sscs-stats.htm request to prioritise an appeal for consideration by a Social Security and Child Support Judge, but this would only be done in exceptional cases. Bill Esterson: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what consideration he has given to prioritising people waiting for an appeal against a decision of a work capability assessment to be heard who have been diagnosed with anxiety or depression which could be HEALTH aggravated by waiting for an outcome. [68185]

Chris Grayling: The hon. Member will no doubt be Access to Work Programme aware that a significant proportion of claimants report mental health as one of their health problems. In view Mrs McGuire: To ask the Secretary of State for of the numbers involved, it would not be appropriate to Health pursuant to the answer of 12 July 2011, delay the appeals of others in order to prioritise the Official Report, columns 297-8W, on access to work appeals of this particular group. Importantly, all claimants programme, how many disabled employees of his can continue to receive employment and support allowance Department are currently being provided with support at a basic rate pending the outcome of the appeal where under his Department’s Reasonable Adjustment policy; they appeal against a limited capability for work decision. what proportion of his Department’s total workforce We have now commenced the reassessment of everyone such employees represent; and what the cost to his on incapacity benefit, severe disablement allowance and Department of providing such support was in the last income support paid because of an illness or disability 12 months. [68623] to see if they are ready and capable of work. As we know that the assessment process may prove stressful Mr Simon Burns: The Department considers all for some customers we have taken a number of steps to appropriate requests for reasonable adjustment and relies ensure those affected are fully informed of what will on professional occupational health advice to ensure happen and how it may affect them. Jobcentre Plus agreed adjustments are suitable and beneficial. write to claimants when their benefit becomes due for The Department does not hold central records of reassessment (prompted by the date that they would those staff who have a reasonable adjustment in place. have been due a Personal Capability Assessment) to tell Some adjustments are arranged by the local line them about the changes. We also phone the customer management chain and can vary from very short-term shortly after this to check they have received the letter adjustments (such as a flexible working arrangement 133W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 134W for a member of staff returning from a spell of absence) Paul Burstow: The Department has issued no guidance to longer-term adjustments to address more permanent to the national health service on the treatment of pernicious issues. anaemia. Professional guidance for general practitioners (GPs) is available from “Clinical Knowledge Summaries” Accident and Emergency Departments and is summarised in a number of other sources readily accessible to patients and to professionals, including Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health “NHS Choices”, the “Map of Medicine” and the website how many NHS accident and emergency departments “Patient UK”. Current guidance advises GPs to monitor in England are not open 24 hours a day; and what the response to treatment with Vitamin B12 after 10 proportion of NHS accident and emergency days, and subsequently after eight weeks to confirm a normal blood count. Subsequent monitoring is generally departments this represents. [68289] regarded as unnecessary unless anaemia recurs. Mr Simon Burns: Comprehensive information about opening times is not held centrally. Blood: Contamination There are 601 accident and emergency departments in England, including independent sector facilities. Jason McCartney: To ask the Secretary of State for Of these, 196 (or 33%) are type one (major) accident Health for what reason payments to haemophiliacs and emergency departments. Type one departments by from the MacFarlane Trust and the Skipton Fund are definition provide a 24 hour service. Additionally, some not made payable to a widow, other relative or type two (single specialty) and type three (minor injury, dependent of the recipient following the death of the walk-in centre and other urgent care) services may be recipient from causes attributable to the receipt of open 24 hours a day. contaminated NHS blood products. [68272]

Alzheimer’s Disease: Health Services Anne Milton: The Macfarlane Trust is a discretionary scheme and can make payments, based on need, to Chris Skidmore: To ask the Secretary of State for widows, other relatives and dependents of HIV-infected Health how much was spent by primary care trusts on beneficiaries who have died. The Caxton Foundation the treatment of Alzheimer’s disease in (a) 1997-98 will have similar discretion in respect of widows, other and (b) 2009-10. [67982] relatives and dependents of those infected with hepatitis C when it begins its operations later this year. Paul Burstow: The information requested is not collected centrally, but the NHS Information Centre has conducted a voluntary survey of primary care trust memory services, Cancer covering the years 2008-09 to 2010-11 which includes information on spend. The provisional results of the survey were published on 19 July 2011, by the NHS Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Information Centre and the full report will be published how many (a) missed diagnoses of cancer, (b) shortly and a copy will be placed in the Library. radiotherapy errors and (c) chemotherapy errors were reported to the National Patient Safety Agency in each year since 1997. [68429] Ambulance Services: Rural Areas Paul Burstow: The specific information requested is Mike Gapes: To ask the Secretary of State for Health not available from the National Patient Safety Agency what steps his Department is taking to enable all (NPSA). The NPSA’s National Reporting and Learning ambulance trusts to use national grid references rather System (NRLS) does not label data by clinical disorder than postcodes to locate emergency callers in rural or procedure, but rather classifies information by the areas. [68591] generic category of the patient safety incident; for example, a medication error rather than an anti-cancer medication Mr Simon Burns: The management of control room error. functions are for the national health service ambulance service to manage locally. The Department expects trusts The NPSA does have some data, derived from thematic to ensure that its control rooms are fit for purpose and reviews on relevant topics, which answer part of the have the necessary capacity capability and resilience to question: deal with the requirements of a modern ambulance The NPSA’s “Athemed review of anticancer medicines”published service. This includes effective handling of all 999 calls in 2010, showed that between 1 November 2003 and 30 June 2008 received so the most appropriate response is awarded there were 4,839 patients safety incidents involving anti-cancer medicines; based on the information the control room receives; which could include location information based on The report “Towards safer radiotherapy” published in 2008 national grid references. showed that between May 2000 and August 2006, 181 incidents affecting 338 patients were reported in the UK under the Ionising Radiation (Medical Exposure) Regulations (IR(ME)R) 2000; and Anaemia The thematic review “Delayed diagnosis of cancer” indicated that between June 2007 and May 2008 around 1,650 patient Joan Walley: To ask the Secretary of State for Health safety incidents were reported to the NRLS relating to actual or if he will review NHS guidance on the frequency of GP potential delayed cancer diagnosis. appointments for treatment of pernicious anaemia. Copies of these documents have been placed in the [67513] Library. 135W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 136W

Cancer Act 1939 expenditure against the fund is made available on SHA websites and SHAs are recommended to update this Mr Brine: To ask the Secretary of State for Health information periodically. whether he has considered the merits of reviewing A copy of the guidance has already been placed in section 4 of the Cancer Act 1939. [68173] the Library.

Paul Burstow: Section 4 of the Cancer Act 1939 states Mr Baron: To ask the Secretary of State for Health that it is illegal to advertise or promote any medicines, (1) if he will hold discussions with strategic health diets or therapies as treatments or cures for cancer. The authorities who do not follow his Department’s Government have given no consideration to the merits guidance on the operation of the Cancer Drugs Fund; of reviewing this section of the Act. and if he will make a statement; [68629] The Department last consulted on changes to the Act (2) what recent assessment he has made of regional in 2006 and, subsequent to this, a Legislative Reform variations in the operation of the Cancer Drugs Fund; Order came into force in October 2008. This removed and if he will make a statement. [68649] the need to consult the Attorney-General before bringing Mr Simon Burns: We have no plans to hold discussions a prosecution and made clear that there is discretion on with strategic health authorities (SHAs) on these matters. whether or not to prosecute under the Act, rather than a duty to do so. The National Cancer Action Team is supporting the national health service in operating the arrangements Cancer: Drugs for the Cancer Drugs Fund through organising national meetings of the SHA leads and facilitating the sharing Esther McVey: To ask the Secretary of State for of information. Health what plans he has to share good examples of The Department published “Guidance to support data reporting on the operation of the Cancer Drugs operation of the Cancer Drugs Fund” in 2011-12 on Fund among strategic health authorities; and if he will 23 March 2011. It is for SHA regional clinically-led make a statement. [68150] panels to make decisions on the use of this funding. A copy of the guidance has already been placed in Paul Burstow: The Department published ‘Guidance the Library. to support operation of the Cancer Drugs Fund in Care Homes 2011-12’ on 23 March 2011. The guidance recommends that strategic health authorities (SHAs) make appropriate Emily Thornberry: To ask the Secretary of State for Cancer Drugs Fund activity data available on their Health (1) what estimate he has made of the number of websites. Activity data may include such items as the care homes which may close as a result of the collapse number of applications, approvals by drugs and indication. of Southern Cross; [67469] SHAs are recommended to update this information (2) whether his Department has issued guidance to regularly. The guidance also recommends that SHAs local authority directors of adult social services on make information on expenditure against the fund available placing residents they fund in care homes where the on their websites. SHAs are recommended to update operator may be an offshore company; [67472] this information periodically. (3) what (a) financial support and (b) other support We understand that SHAs are working together to he provides to local authority directors of adult social promote best practice in the operation of the fund. services to help ensure that new operating companies A copy of the guidance has already been placed in of care homes where they fund residents have sound the Library. financial models. [67473] Esther McVey: To ask the Secretary of State for Paul Burstow: No such estimate has been made at Health (1) whether provision has been made to ensure present. Southern Cross remains in operation and will that monthly and quarterly reporting that are required continue to operate all of its care homes until any under the Department of Health’s guidance on the transfers to new providers have taken place. operation of the Cancer Drugs Fund will be made Under the Care Quality Commission (Registration) publicly available by strategic health authorities on a Regulations 2010, made by the previous Government monthly basis; and if he will make a statement; [68151] under the Health and Social Care Act 2008, responsibility (2) what assessment he has made on the data that was given to the Care Quality Commission (CQC), as have been published by each strategic health authority regulator of health and adult social care, for determining on the use of the Cancer Drugs Fund since October questions of the financial viability of care providers. 2010; and if he will make a statement. [68152] No guidance regarding the offshore status of care home operators has been issued by the Department to Paul Burstow: It is for strategic health authorities directors of adult social services at any point. The CQC (SHAs) to decide what information they make available is required to satisfy itself that any prospective care about the operation of the Cancer Drugs Fund in their provider is capable of delivering safe, high quality care area. and of meeting all regulatory requirements and standards. The Department published ‘Guidance to support Care Quality Commission operation of the Cancer Drugs Fund in 2011-12’ on 23 March 2011. The guidance recommends that SHAs Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health make appropriate activity data available on their websites. how many complaints were referred to the Care SHAs are recommended to update this information Quality Commission for independent review in each regularly. It also recommends that information on year since 1997. [68177] 137W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 138W

Mr Simon Burns: The Care Quality Commission Mr Simon Burns: Local national health service (CQC) does not have responsibility for second stage organisations are best placed to assess the health needs complaints (the independent review stage). In order to of their local health community and plan the work get resolution on concerns about care services, complainants force they need. should contact the provider in the first instance. If a Departmental Advertising complainant is unhappy with the response received from the provider, the complainant may then take their complaint to the Parliamentary and Health Services Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Ombudsman for consideration. how much his Department has spent on (a) television, (b) radio and (c) newspaper advertising in (i) real and The only predecessor organisation of CQC with (ii) nominal terms in each year since 1997-98; and how responsibilities for 2nd stage complaints was the Healthcare much it has so spent in total. [68215] Commission (HCC) which was responsible for reviewing complaints about NHS services. The following table Mr Simon Burns: The following tables outline the shows the number of 2nd stage complaints received by specific costs relating to the Department’s advertising HCC from July 2004 to 31 March 2009. spend 1997-98 to 2003-04 financial years and advertising spend broken down into television, radio and newspaper Financial year Healthcare Commission media for 2004-05 on. To provide a breakdown from 2008-09 6,783 1997-2004 would incur disproportionate cost. 2007-08 7,500 The financial information is not available in the format 2006-07 6,570 requested and to provide the information in real and 2005-06 7,577 nominal terms would incur disproportionate costs. 2004-051 5,707 Department of Health media spend 1997-98 to 2003-04 financial years 1 Healthcare Commission took on the role of reviewing 2nd stage complaints in July 2004. £ million

1997-98 2.04 Cystic Fibrosis: Nurses 1998-99 8.53 1999-2000 15.70 Mr Brine: To ask the Secretary of State for Health 2000-01 20.78 what steps his Department plans to take to support the 2001-02 20.35 provision of cystic fibrosis specialist nurse services in 2002-03 24.85 2003-04 41.12 England. [68172]

Department of Health media spend on radio, television and newspapers, 2004-05 to 2010-11 financial years £ million 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 2010-111

Television 17.77 13.82 11.05 10.25 23.73 28.73 1.33 Radio 3.74 4.09 3.53 3.16 5.10 6.58 0.57 Newspapers 8.74 5.22 4.60 4.93 11.88 10.79 1.86 Total 30.25 23.13 19.18 18.34 40.71 46.10 3.76 1 Figures are provisional. Notes: 1. Advertising spend is defined as covering only media spend (inclusive of agency commissions but excluding production costs, COI commission and VAT). 2. These figures do not include the Department’s recruitment/classified advertising costs and ad hoc spend under £10,000. All figures are rounded to the nearest £10,000. 3. These figures may include occasional minor spend through COI by NHS organisations, to supplement national campaigns in their area. While this expenditure has been excluded as far as possible so that this spreadsheet reflects central departmental spend, it would incur disproportionate cost to validate that every item of NHS expenditure has been removed.

Gavin Williamson: To ask the Secretary of State for Departmental media spend on radio, television and newspapers Health how much his Department has spent on (a) £million television, (b) radio and (c) newspaper advertising in 2006-07 2007-08 2009-10 2010-111 (i) real and (ii) nominal terms between (A) May 2006 and June 2007 and (B) June 2009 and May 2010; and Television 11.05 10.25 28.73 1.33 what the total cost to the public purse was. [68378] Radio 3.53 3.16 6.58 0.57 Newspapers 4.60 4.93 10.79 1.86 Total 19.18 18.34 46.10 3.76 Mr Simon Burns: The information requested is not 1Figures are provisional available in the required format. To produce the information Notes: outside complete financial years and in real and nominal 1. Advertising spend is defined as covering only media spend (inclusive of terms would incur disproportionate costs. agency commissions but excluding production costs, Central Office of Information (COI) commission and VAT). 2. These figures do not include the Department’s recruitment/classified advertising The following chart shows the Department’s spend in costs and ad hoc spend under £10,000. All figures are rounded to the nearest the requested media over the four financial years covered £10,000. by the scope of the question. 3. These figures may include occasional minor spend through COI by national health service organisations, to supplement national campaigns in their area. While this expenditure has been excluded as far as possible so that this spreadsheet reflects central departmental spend, it would incur disproportionate cost to validate that every item of NHS expenditure has been removed. 139W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 140W

Departmental Billing delayed payment at a rate of 8% above the Bank of England base reference rate. Penalty payments may be Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health due where a small or medium sized business obtains a how many payments to contractors have been made ruling that any contract terms that were applied were late by his Department in each financial year since grossly unfair. 1997; and what the cost to the public purse was of (a) The records available relate to financial years rather penalty charges and (b) interest for such late payments. than the specific months requested and so cover the [68211] periods 1 April 2006 to 31 March 2007 and 1 April 2009 to 31 March 2010 respectively. Details of the penalty Mr Simon Burns: The Department operates standard and interest charges paid by the Department in each of contractual payment terms of 30 days and any payments these periods are given in the following table. that are delayed beyond that date may be subject to interest under the Late Payment of Commercial Debts Number of late Penalty charges Interest charges (Interest) Act 1998. The Act states that suppliers who payments (£) (£) are not paid within 30 days of the receipt of the invoice 2006-07 9,929 135,000 0 by the party billed are entitled to claim interest on the 2009-10 1,855 0 0 delayed payment at a rate of 8% above the Bank of England base reference rate. Penalty payments may be It should be noted that this data covers all payments due where a small or medium sized business obtains a made by the Department and therefore includes both ruling that any contract terms that were applied were commercial and non-commercial suppliers. No separate grossly unfair. analysis of ’contractor’ payments is available. Details of the penalty and interest charges paid by the Department in each financial year since 1997-98 are given in the following table. Data is only available from Departmental Communication 2001-02 when the Department introduced an Oracle based finance system (Vista), which allowed for such Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health payment information to be collected. what his Department’s total expenditure on communications research has been in each financial Number of late Penalty charges Interest charges year since 1997; and how much was spent on (a) payments (£) (£) reports on the public perceptions of the NHS, (b) 1997-98 n/a — — stakeholder surveys, (c) national media evaluations 1998-99 n/a — — and (d) other communications research. [68216] 1999-2000 n/a — — 2000-01 n/a — — Mr Simon Burns: The Department’s expenditure on 2001-02 19,791 — — all research commissioned through the Central Office 2002-03 17,412 — — of Information (COI) for the financial years 2001-02 to 2003-04 12,332 — — 2010-11 is as follows. Financial records do not provide 2004-05 21,802 — — this breakdown prior to 2001-02. 2005-06 11,209 — — The expenditure figures cover all research commissioned 2006-07 9,929 135,000 — by Department through COI for the years in question, 2007-08 1,953 — — so will include projects which are not communications- 2008-09 1,161 — 91 related. It would incur disproportionate cost to isolate 2009-10 1,855 — — research expenditure related to communications only. 2010-11 1,525 — 183 It would also incur disproportionate cost to provide n/a = Not available the breakdown of expenditure as requested i.e. reports It should be noted that this data covers all payments on the public perceptions of the national health service, made by the Department and therefore includes both stakeholder surveys, national media evaluations and commercial and non-commercial suppliers. No separate other communications research. analysis of ’contractor’ payments is available. This does not include costs of research which the Department commissioned directly (not via COI) which Gavin Williamson: To ask the Secretary of State for is not held centrally. Health how many late payments his Department has made to contractors between (a) May 2006 and June Total expenditure (£) 2007 and (b) June 2009 and May 2010; and what the 2001-02 942,015 total cost to the public purse was of any (i) penalty 2002-03 1,608,639 charges or (ii) interest charges incurred in those 2003-04 1,595,060 periods. [68319] 2004-05 1,816,376 2005-06 2,797,289 Mr Simon Burns: The Department operates standard 2006-07 2,037,048 contractual payment terms of 30 days and any payments 2007-08 5,130,766 that are delayed beyond that date may be subject to 2008-09 7,743,013 interest under the Late Payment of Commercial Debts 2009-10 11,137,981 (Interest) Act 1998. The Act states that suppliers who 2010-11 9,549,616 are not paid within 30 days of the receipt of the invoice Total 44,357,801 by the party billed are entitled to claim interest on the 141W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 142W

Departmental Internet While the Department does not have specific details about each company that charges for checking applications for the EHIC, it has referred several websites that offer Rosie Cooper: To ask the Secretary of State for such services to the Office of Fair Trading (OFT), for it Health (1) what his policy is on the use by commercial to investigate and take appropriate action. On 14 July companies of web pages offering registration for his 2011, the OFT announced new investigations into the Department’s services for a fee in cases where his deceptive online selling of Government services, in particular Department offers registration free of charge; and what those that are usually low cost or free of charge. steps his Department takes to optimise search engine results for its web pages offering free registration; The Department does not hold information on the [68079] number of commercial companies charging a fee for registration through a website for services offered by the (2) if he will discuss with (a) Google and (b) other Department free of charge, nor does it have a general search engine providers strategies to ensure that his policy on commercial companies offering services for a Department’s webpage offering free registration for fee. European Health Insurance Cards appears in search results above websites of commercial companies Departmental Manpower charging a fee for such registrations; [68080] (3) what measures are available to his Department to Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health prevent commercial companies charging fees for web what the (a) names and (b) dates of service were of applications for European Health Insurance Cards; each special adviser in his Department since May 1997; [68081] and what the total cost to the public purse was for employing such advisers in each year between 1997 and (4) what information his Department holds on the 2010. [68191] number of services offered by his Department requiring registration to secure an entitlement for Gavin Williamson: To ask the Secretary of State for which his Department offers registration free of charge Health how many (a) special advisers and (b) press but for which commercial companies charge a fee for officers were employed by his Department between (i) registration through a website; [68082] May 2006 and June 2007 and (ii) June 2009 and May (5) what information his Department holds on 2010; and what the cost to the public purse was in (A) companies who charge for registration for the issue to cash and (B) real terms of such appointments. [68332] UK nationals of the European Health Insurance Card. [68083] Mr Simon Burns: I refer my hon. Friends to the answer I gave my hon. Friend the Member for Kingswood (Chris Skidmore) on 13 June 2011, Official Report, Anne Milton: The European Health Insurance Card columns 633-34W. (EHIC) originates from European regulations concerning the free movement of migrant workers around Europe, Departmental Marketing and it is likely that any charge to the citizen that is over and above the cost of producing the card would be seen Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health as a barrier to citizens accessing their rights in Europe. how much his Department has spent on promotional It is free of charge to apply for the card in the United merchandise branded with his Department’s name in Kingdom online, by phone or by post directly through each financial year since 1997-98. [68219] the NHS Business Services Authority (BSA), which Mr Simon Burns: The Department advises against administers EHIC applications and renewals on behalf the use of departmental branding on products, other of the Department. than on occasional low value promotional items to Since the card’s introduction in the UK, several websites support specific internal initiatives or conferences. Any have set up providing a service whereby, for a charge of such items are procured by individual teams within the around £10, they check a citizen’s EHIC application Department and the Department does not hold central and forward the application to the NHS BSA. These records on which items were procured and at what cost. websites can be misleading: they sponsor links on search To provide this information would therefore incur engines so that they appear above the Government’s disproportionate cost. websites; they use official sounding language and official looking images on their websites; and they sometimes Departmental Mobile Phones do not make it clear enough that it is free to apply directly through the NHS BSA. Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health how many mobile telephones and BlackBerrys were The EHIC application website and the NHS Choices provided to staff in his Department in each financial website, which provides information about the EHIC, year since 1997; and what the cost to the public purse are currently the top two non-sponsored results on has been for (a) line rental, (b) insurance and (c) the Google, and also feature highly on other similar search purchase of the handset. [68207] engines. The Department has also amended the wording on its website to make it clearer that there is no need to Mr Simon Burns: The Department does not hold pay for the EHIC, and has taken steps to ensure that detailed information on the total number of mobile this messaging appears in the descriptions of its results telephone and BlackBerry devices allocated to staff on Google and other search engines. throughout the periods requested. The following table All digital content published on NHS Choices and on shows the number of active BlackBerry and mobile the Department’s website is designed to perform well in phone devices in use by staff at the end of each of the search results. requested financial year periods: 143W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 144W

The Department does not hold the expenditure Financial year information requested in the required format. The total end BlackBerry Mobile telephones expenditure on mobile phone services for financial years 2006-07 and 2009-10 was: 1997- n/a n/a 2005 Mobile telephony expenditure 2005-06 78 n/a Financial year Total costs (£) 2006-07 480 n/a 2006-07 780,987 2007-08 756 n/a 2009-10 982,193 2008-09 1,098 n/a 2009-10 1,409 476 Included within these total costs are handset and line 2010-11 1,168 590 rental contracts, call and data charges for mobile phone, BlackBerry devices and 3G data cards. The Department The number of active mobile telephones in issue to does not pay insurance for mobile devices. staff is sourced from the Department’s Human Resource system and not available as an historical snapshot prior Departmental Official Cars to 2009-10. To obtain that information would incur disproportionate costs. Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health The Department does not hold the expenditure what the cost to the public purse has been for (a) cars information requested in the required format for the leased by his Department to staff and (b) ministerial required period. The total expenditure on mobile phone chauffeurs in each financial year since 1997. [68208] services for financial years 2006-07 to 2010-11 was: Gavin Williamson: To ask the Secretary of State for Mobile telephony expenditure -1997 to 2011 Health what the total cost to the public purse was of Financial year Total costs (£) (a) cars leased by his Department to staff and (b) 1997-06 n/a ministerial chauffeurs between (i) May 2006 and June 2006-07 780,987 2007 and (ii) June 2009 and May 2010. [68381] 2007-08 760,973 2008-09 897,002 Mr Simon Burns: Information on the costs of cars 2009-10 982,193 leased by the Department to staff since 1997-98 is not 2010-11 687,193 held centrally and could be obtained only at disproportionate cost. Included within these total costs are handset and line Regarding the costs of ministerial chauffeurs, I refer rental contracts, call and data charges for mobile telephone, the hon. Members to the answer I gave the hon. Member BlackBerry devices and 3G data cards. The Department for Bristol West (Stephen Williams) on 4 July 2011, does not pay insurance for mobile devices. Official Report, columns 1055-56W. Prior to 2006-07, mobile telephony costs were payable Departmental Pay from local rather than central departmental budgets and are therefore unavailable. Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Gavin Williamson: To ask the Secretary of State for what the average annual salary was of staff working in Health how many mobile telephones and BlackBerrys his Department in (a) nominal and (b) real terms in were provided to staff in his Department between (a) each financial year since 1997-98. [68221] May 2006 and June 2007 and (b) June 2009 and May 2010; and what the total cost to the public purse was of Mr Simon Burns: Information available on the average (i) line rental, (ii) insurance and (iii) the purchase of annual salary of staff working in the Department in such telecommunications equipment. [68322] nominal and real terms is given in the following table:

Mr Simon Burns: The Department does not hold Nominal average Real terms average Financial year salary salary detailed information on the total number of mobile telephone and BlackBerry devices allocated to staff 2003-04 34,029 41,261 throughout the period requested. The following tables 2004-05 37,758 44,907 show the number of active BlackBerry and mobile 2005-06 39,882 46,588 phone devices in use by staff at the start and end of the 2006-07 41,629 47,182 requested periods: 2007-08 42,855 47,434 2008-09 44,078 47,410 Active BlackBerry Active mobile 2009-10 44,350 46,147 Period devices telephones 2010-11 to date 45,053 45,053 May 2006 140 n/a June 2007 548 n/a The above column of real terms (inflation-adjusted) June 2009 1,295 590 figures are calculated using the consumer price index obtaining on 31 March for each year for which salary May 2010 1,450 467 information is available. The number of active mobile telephones in issue to The Department changed its payroll provider in 2003-04, staff is sourced from the Department’s Human Resource so to retrieve the requested information for prior years system and data for May 2006 and June 2007 were not would require recourse to individual salary records and recorded on the system at that time. would incur disproportionate cost. 145W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 146W

Departmental Public Expenditure The Department’s previous contract for the provision of horticultural services to its London Estate expired November 2010. As a result, we are unable to provide Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health the previous annual costs due to the change of provider. how much his Department has spent on (a) However, for the last year of the contract, the annual newspapers, magazines and periodicals, (b) landscape spend was £17,123.54. gardening and (c) flora in his Department in each Under the new contract, the departmental spend for financial year since 1997-98. [68220] horticultural services for the period December 2010 to November 2011 will be £7,185.40. Mr Simon Burns: The following table gives expenditure We are unable to break down these figures further. on newspapers, magazines and periodicals purchased Departmental Rail Travel for library use since 1997-98 and, until March 2010, for retention by individual units. Expenditure by individual Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health units since April 2010 is not available. what the cost to the public purse was for (a) train Departmental expenditure on newspapers, magazines and periodicals travel and (b) first-class train travel in each financial Financial year Expenditure (£) year since 1997 by (i) officials in his Department, (ii) Ministers in his Department and (iii) special advisers in 1997-98 415,890 his Department. [68209] 1998-99 423,560 1999-2000 419,490 Gavin Williamson: To ask the Secretary of State for 2000-01 423,160 Health what the cost to the public purse was for (a) 2001-02 469,880 first class and (b) all train travel by (i) Ministers, (ii) 2002-03 356,510 staff and (iii) special advisers in his Department 2003-04 350,036 between (A) May 2006 and June 2007 and (B) June 2004-05 380,025 2009 and May 2010. [68339] 2005-06 395,148 2006-07 350,930 Mr Simon Burns: Data from our central travel contracts 2007-08 317,386 is not available before April 2004. It is not possible to 2008-09 298,022 distinguish between travellers without incurring 2009-10 249,152 disproportionate cost. The cost of first class rail travel 2010-11 136,223 and all rail travel from the central travel contract is as follows:

£ First class rail Total rail spend

April 2004 to March 2005 3,143,724 3,787,008 April 2005 to March 2006 4,004,085 5,369,085 April 2006 to March 2007 3,094,069 4,675,029 April 2007 to March 2008 3,594,495 5,271,933 April 2008 to March 2009 4,795,247 7,231,797 April 2009 to March 2010 3,647,863 6,751,888 April 2010 to March 2011 1,028,718 4,216,641

May 2006 to June 2007 4,469,481 6,580,494 June 2009 to May 2010 4,025,146 6,586,998

Departmental Stationery £

Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health April 2008 to March 2009 690,632.74 what the cost to the public purse was for stationery April 2009 to March 2010 404,888.66 purchases by his Department in each financial year April 2010 to March 2011 231,049.81 between 1997 and 2010. [68206] Gavin Williamson: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Simon Burns: Information on stationery spend is Health what the total cost to the public purse was of not held centrally before 2006. Spend on stationery stationery purchased by his Department between (a) purchased through the stationery contract for the May 2006 and June 2007 and (b) June 2009 and May Department since 2006 is as follows: 2010. [68391]

£ Mr Simon Burns: Spend on stationery purchased through the stationery contract for the Department April 2005 to March 2006 1,648,905.29 was: April 2006 to March 2007 1,472,923.37 May 2006 to June 2007: £1,596,546.96 April 2007 to March 2008 776,550.73 June 2009 to May 2010: £388,306.35. 147W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 148W

Departmental Training Details of studies hosted by the NIHR Clinical Research Network can be found on the UK Clinical Research Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Network portfolio database at: how many (a) away days and (b) team building http://public.ukcrn.org.uk/search excursions have taken place in his Department in each Details of research funded by the PRP are available financial year between 1997 and 2010; and if he will on the Department’s website at: publish (i) the date of each event, (ii) the location of www.dh.gov.uk/en/Aboutus/Researchanddevelopment/ each event, (iii) the number of attendees and (iv) the Policyresearchprogramme/index.htm itemised cost to the public purse for each event. [68176] Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Gavin Williamson: To ask the Secretary of State for (1) what recent assessment he has made of the likely Health what the (a) date, (b) location, (c) number of effects on national health service expenditure of the attendees and (d) cost to the public purse was for each (a) early diagnosis and (b) treatment of (i) cancer and (i) away day and (ii) team building activity organised (ii) other diseases; and if he will make a statement; for staff in his Department between (A) May 2006 and [68143] June 2007 and (B) June 2009 and May 2010. [68336] (2) what recent estimate he has made of the effects on mortality rates of the early (a) diagnosis and (b) Mr Simon Burns: The Department is strongly committed treatment of (i) cancer and (ii) other diseases; and if he to developing its staff and equipping them with the will make a statement; [68146] skills, knowledge and expertise they need to carry out (3) what plans he has to improve early (a) diagnosis their work roles effectively. Away days and team building and (b) treatment of (i) cancer and (ii) other diseases; events make a significant contribution to such development. and if he will make a statement. [68147] Away days and team building activities are typically arranged by individual teams in the Department. No Paul Burstow: We are providing £750 million over the central records of these events are kept so extracting the next four years to support the national health service to requested data would incur disproportionate costs. deliver “Improving Outcomes: A Strategy for Cancer”, published on 12 January 2011. The strategy sets out an Diseases: Health Services ambition to save an additional 5,000 lives every year by 2014-15 through early diagnosis of symptomatic cancer and improved access to screening and radiotherapy Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Health treatment. what recent research he has (a) undertaken and (b) plans to undertake into the effects of early diagnosis It is now accepted that late diagnosis is one of the and treatment of (i) cancer and (ii) other diseases; and main reasons our cancer survival rates are worse than many other European countries. To understand the if he will make a statement. [68142] reasons for this disparity we are leading an International Cancer Benchmarking Partnership to explore the impact Mr Simon Burns: The Department’s National Institute of the stage of diagnosis and access to treatment by for Health Research (NIHR) and Policy Research surgery, radiotherapy and chemotherapy on avoidable Programme (PRP) fund a wide range of research relating deaths from cancer. to early diagnosis and treatment of cancer and other diseases. We know that for many other conditions earlier diagnosis is also an important factor in delivering better outcomes. The PRP is funding the Policy Research Unit in That is why to achieve earlier diagnosis of dementia, we Cancer Awareness, Screening and Early Diagnosis at are working in partnership with the Alzheimer’s Society Queen Mary university of London. on the Living Well with Dementia campaign. In March The NIHR School for Primary Care Research comprises we launched a one-month pilot in the North West and the leading academic centres for primary care research Yorkshire and the Humber to help people to recognise in England. One of the school’s five programmes of dementia symptoms and we are now evaluating the research is in prevention and early diagnosis. impact of the campaign. NIHR Collaborations for Leadership in Applied Health Our Mental Health Strategy, “No Health Without Research and Care (CLAHRCs) are collaborative Mental Health”, also highlights the importance of partnerships between a university and the surrounding prevention and early intervention, as half of those with national health service organisations, focused on improving lifetime mental health problems first experience symptoms patient outcomes through the conduct and application before the age of 14. This is why we are working in of applied health research. Many of the nine CLAHRCs partnership with the Department for Education and have research and implementation themes relating to Schools to consider how schools can best support children early diagnosis and treatment. and on the roll-out of interventions to help the most Details of projects funded through programmes managed vulnerable children. by the NIHR Central Commissioning Facility (CCF) Prevention as well as earlier diagnosis is an important can be found on the CCF website at: factor in delivering better outcomes. This is why we are www.ccf.nihr.ac.uk/Pages/FundedProgrammes.aspx undertaking prevention activity in a number of areas. For example, through the NHS Health Check we are Details of projects funded through programmes managed working to identify people aged 40-74 at risk of heart by the NIHR Evaluation, Trials and Studies Centre disease, stroke, kidney disease and diabetes and to support (NETSCC) can be found on the NETSCC website at: them to reduce or manage that risk through individually www.netscc.ac.uk tailored advice and support. 149W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 150W

The National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence year to the FRANK campaign. (In this context, the is also developing a range of Quality Standards to FRANK campaign refers to all communication activity support the early diagnosis and treatment of people including the helpline, website, SMS, email, Bot, literature, with a wide range of conditions. and all marketing and public relations activity.)

Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Health £ whether (a) he, (b) other Ministers in his Department, 2003-04 1,750,000 (c) other Ministers and (d) officials in his Department plan to attend the UN Non-Communicable Diseases 2004-05 2,620,000 High Level Meeting in September 2011; and if he will 2005-06 3,260,000 2006-07 3,130,000 make a statement. [68145] 2007-08 2,000,000 Anne Milton: We expect a Health Minister to attend 2008-09 2,400,000 the UN High Level meeting in September and to be 2009-10 2,000,000 supported by officials as appropriate. A final decision 2010-11 152,000 on the composition of the United Kingdom delegation will be made closer to the time. The decision will take Drugs: Young People into account how best to represent UK interests, given the domestic and global priority attached to tackling Toby Perkins: To ask the Secretary of State for non-communicable diseases, as well as the need for Health how many young people between the ages of 16 efficient use of taxpayers’ money in funding overseas and 18 were treated for substance misuse in each of the trips. last five years; and what proportion of these young people were care leavers. [68229] Doctors: Communication Skills Anne Milton: Figures for the numbers of young people John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for Health between the ages of 16 and 18 accessing substance what training in communications skills new doctors are misuse services were reported in ‘Substance misuse required to undertake. [68160] among young people: the data for 2009-10’, published by the National Treatment Agency for Substance Misuse Anne Milton: Communication skills are an important in December 2010. The following table, taken from the part of medical training. The content and standard of report, contains the most recently published data. medical training is the responsibility of the General Numbers accessing substance misuse services: trends for 16 to 18-year- Medical Council (GMC), which is the competent authority olds for medical training in the United Kingdom. GMC is Age 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 an independent professional body. The GMC has statutory responsibility to determine 16-17 4,347 5,315 5,987 6,133 5,823 the extent and knowledge and skill required for the 17-18 4,780 6,019 6,624 6,663 6,701 granting of primary medical qualifications in the UK. Source: Their recommendations on undergraduate medical National Drug Treatment Monitoring System (NDTMS) education are contained in ‘Tomorrow’s Doctors’ (2009) The National Drug Treatment Monitoring system which includes clear guidance on ensuring doctors are (NDTMS) does not collect data on young people who able to communicate effectively with patients. are care leavers. The next stage of training after graduation from a Epilepsy: Older People medical school is the Foundation Programme which is managed by the UK Foundation Programme Office. Teresa Pearce: To ask the Secretary of State for The Foundation Programme curriculum sets out specific Health what (1) assessment he has made of the level of competences which doctors must acquire in their care offered by the NHS to older people with epilepsy; relationship with patients and in communication skills. and if he will make a statement; [67744] Postgraduate medical training curricula are developed (2) information his Department holds on the proportion by the medical Royal Colleges with common competences of over-65s with epilepsy who have (a) attended a first that should be acquired by all doctors identified by the seizure clinic, (b) been referred to tertiary services, (c) Academy of Medical Royal Colleges in their document received an individual care plan and (d) had an epilepsy Competences Framework for Doctors (2009). This also review in the last 12 months; [67795] contains guidance on communication skills and interaction (3) information his Department holds on the proportion with patients. of over-65s with epilepsy who have been treated in Drugs: Health Education accordance with the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence clinical guidelines of 2004; [67796] Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health (4) information his Department holds on the what his Department’s expenditure was on the proportion of NHS geriatricians who have received FRANK drug awareness campaign in each year since training in epilepsy. [67797] its introduction. [68430] Paul Burstow: None of the information requested is Anne Milton: FRANK is the national drugs internet collected by the Department. Local health bodies have information and advice service funded by the Department, the responsibility for ensuring they commission services the Home Office and the Department for Education. to meet the local needs of all their resident population The Department contributed the following amounts by living with epilepsy. 151W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 152W

Health professionals have responsibility for using Mr Simon Burns: Figures on the actual numbers of their clinical judgement to decide on the appropriate patients who were seen by a general practitioner (GP) care for an individual, National Institute for Clinical are not collected. The latest data on the estimated Excellence guidelines are not mandatory. number of GP consultations, based on a sample, in England is available and shown as follows: Teresa Pearce: To ask the Secretary of State for Health (1) what information his Department holds on Estimated number of GP the level of (a) misdiagnosis and (b) referral for consultations in England per year surgery in over-65s with epilepsy; [67798] 1997 163,200,000 (2) what information his Department holds on the 1998 158,200,000 proportion of over-65s with epilepsy who (a) are free 1999 155,500,000 from seizures, (b) have access to an epilepsy specialist 2000 155,100,000 nurse and (c) have been seen by an epilepsy specialist 2001 161,900,000 neurologist in the last 12 months; [67799] 2002 162,100,000 (3) what information his Department holds on 2003 168,900,000 trends in mortality due to epilepsy in the over-65s; 2004 170,900,000 [67800] 2005 175,400,000 (4) what information his Department holds on the 2006 181,400,000 incidence of epilepsy in (a) the over-65s and (b) the 2007 185,300,000 over-80s. [67801] 2008 189,000,000 Note: Paul Burstow: None of the information requested is Data on GP Consultations has not been collected since 2008. Source: collected by the Department. NHS Information Centre for Health and Social Care/QResearch: Trends in Consultations Rates in General Practice 1995 to 2008: Fluoride: Drinking Water Analysis of the QResearch Database.

Dr Julian Lewis: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what (a) estimate his Department has made Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health and (b) data it has on the probable cost of adding how many GP appointments have been made in fluoride to the water supply in Southampton and England in each year since 1997; and how many of Totton; and what account he will take of opposition by these appointments have been (a) missed or (b) (i) the public and (ii) relevant local authorities when rescheduled in each year since 1997. [68294] deciding whether to make Government funds available for this purpose. [68310] Mr Simon Burns: The Department does not collect Anne Milton: Under Section 87 of the Water Industry data centrally on numbers of general practitioner Act 1991 strategic health authorities (SHAs) are responsible appointments, nor on those missed or rescheduled. for fluoridation. The only estimate of the cost of the Southampton scheme held by the Department is the figure of £471,000 included in the consultation document Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health (a) published by South Central SHA in September 2008. what reviews his Department has produced of (b) We understand that the SHA intends to fund practice-based commissioning, GP fund holding (c) implementation of the scheme from its capital allocation, and total purchasing; and if he will publish those which it may use at its discretion. reviews. [68424]

Dr Julian Lewis: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Simon Burns: The Impact Assessment that was Health on what date he expects local authorities to take published alongside the Health and Social Care Bill in over responsibility for deciding if water supplies should January contains a review of general practitioner fund (a) (b) be fluoridated; and whether this could and will holding, total purchasing pilots and practice-based be earlier than the delayed date for the abolition of commissioning. No further formal reviews have been strategic health authorities. [68311] produced by the Department. Anne Milton: Following the Government’s acceptance of the recommendations of the NHS Future Forum, strategic health authorities will now continue in place up until April 2013. Subject to the passage of the Health Professions: Manpower Health and Social Care Bill 2011, which contains the necessary legislative changes, local authorities will become responsible for consultations on fluoridation schemes Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health from April 2013. how many (a) GPs, (b) health visitors, (c) nurses and (d) school nurses there were per capita in England in General Practitioners each year since 1997. [68223]

Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health how many NHS GP consultations have taken place in Mr Simon Burns: The following table gives the numbers each year since 1997-98. [68287] requested in each year since 1997. 153W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 154W

Total general practitioners (GPs), health visitors, nursing staff and school nurses per capita in England as at 1997-2010 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003

Total headcount Total GPs 28,046 28,251 28,467 28,593 28,802 29,202 30,358 (excluding retainers and registrars) Total qualified 318,856 323,457 329,637 335,952 350,381 367,520 386,359 nursing staff of which: Health visitors 12,410 12,572 12,800 12,827 13,053 12,774 12,984 School nurses n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a 476

Headcount per 100.000 population Total GPs 57.6 57.9 58.1 58.1 58.2 58.8 60.9 (excluding retainers and registrars) Total qualified 655.2 662.5 672.3 682.4 708.6 740.2 774.8 nursing staff of which: Health visitors 25.5 25.8 26.1 26.1 26.4 25.7 26.0 School nurses n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a 1.0

2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 20101

Total headcount Total GPs 31,523 32,738 33,091 33,364 34,010 35,917 35,120 (excluding retainers and registrars) Total qualified 397,515 404,161 398,335 399,597 408,160 417,164 410,615 nursing staff of which: Health visitors 13,303 12,818 12,034 11,569 11,190 10,859 10,375 School nurses 856 943 1,129 1,227 1,447 1,620 1,467

Headcount per 100.000 population Total GPs 62.9 64.9 65.2 65.3 66.1 69.3 67.2 (excluding retainers and registrars) Total qualified 793.3 800.9 784.7 781.9 793.1 805.2 786.1 nursing staff of which: Health visitors 26.5 25.4 23.7 22.6 21.7 21.0 19.9 School nurses 1.7 1.9 2.2 2.4 2.8 3.1 2.8 n/a = Not available. School nurses did not become a mandatory return until 2004. Figures for 2003 may not represent a full dataset. 1 The new headcount methodology for 2010 data is not fully comparable with previous years data due to improvements that make it a more stringent count of absolute staff numbers. Notes: 1. Data as at 30 September for each year except GP data 1997-99, as at 1 October. 2. Per Capita statistics displayed are staff numbers per 100,000 head of population in England, using Office for National Statistics resident population estimates for each year. 3. Total qualified nursing staff includes GP practice nurses. Data quality: The NHS Information Centre for health and social care seeks to minimise inaccuracies and the effect of missing and invalid data but responsibility for data accuracy lies with the organisations providing the data. Methods are continually being updated to improve data quality where changes impact on figures already published. This is assessed but unless it is significant at national level figures are not changed. Impact at detailed or local level is footnoted in relevant analyses. Sources: 1. The NHS Information Centre for health and social care General and Personal Medical Services Statistics 2. The NHS Information Centre for health and social care Non-Medical Workforce Census Office for National Statistics. 3. 1997-2010 Final Mid-Year Population Estimates (1991, 2001 census based). 2002-08 data was adjusted May 2010 to reflect revisions to migration.

Health Professions: Pay Mr Simon Burns: The terms of reference given to the Review Body on Doctors’ and Dentists’ Remuneration (DDRB) between 1997-2010 is published in the DDRB Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health if review body reports. Copies of these reports have already he will publish instructions given by Ministers in his been placed in the Library. There was no formal DDRB Department to the Doctors’ and Dentists’ Remuneration report for 2011. The approach for the 2011-12 DDRB Board between 1997 and 2010. [68421] 155W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 156W pay round is set out in Secretary of State’s letter of 19 (3) what estimate he has made of the costs of August 2010 to the DDRB Chair. A copy of this letter treating non-UK EU nationals on the NHS in the has been placed in the Library. The four Health latest period for which figures are available. [67962] Departments also commissioned, in August 2010, a review of: Anne Milton: Under European Union (EU) Regulations, “compensation levels, incentives and the Clinical Excellence the United Kingdom is entitled to claim back the full and Distinction award schemes for NHS consultants.” costs of treating citizens from the EU if they access A copy of the terms of reference for this review has also national health service treatment as a state pensioner been placed in the Library. and their dependent, a temporary visitor, a posted worker by a company in another member state or a dependent of a worker. Under these Regulations, the Health Services: Foreign Nationals expected value of UK claims for 2009-10 against other member states is £57 million. Mr Evennett: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Member states are not entitled to claim back the what recent assessment he has made of the effect on the costs of treating citizens, of working age, who are NHS budget of providing NHS treatment for non-EU lawfully resident and working in that member state, irrespective of nationality. This is because such individuals nationals. [67453] are contributing to the social security system of that country. Consequently, the Department does not hold Mr Simon Burns: Entitlement to free national health data as to how many non UK EU nationals were service hospital treatment is based on residency in the treated, or the associated cost. United Kingdom. Some categories of visitors are also exempted from charges as set out in the ‘NHS (Charges to Overseas Visitors) Regulations 2011’. Through these Health Services: Overseas Visitors regulations some non-European Union nationals will receive free treatment. The Department does not hold Steve Baker: To ask the Secretary of State for Health data on the nationality of those whose treatment is (1) if he will take steps to ensure that patients admitted provided for by the NHS budget. to NHS hospitals who are not entitled to free NHS Other non-EU nationals, together with UK nationals treatment are obliged to refund costs; [67490] who are not ordinarily resident here are charged by (2) what recent representations he has received in hospitals for the costs of their treatment. Some charges respect of the cost of treatment provided by the NHS are not recovered creating a cost to the NHS. The to patients who are not entitled to free NHS treatment; following table shows the total audited losses, bad debts [67491] and claims abandoned for all chargeable patients for years 2007-08 to 2009-10, for England. (3) what his policy is in respect of claiming the cost of treatment provided by the NHS to patients who are Bad debts and claims abandoned not entitled to free NHS treatment. [67492] in respect of overseas patients (£) Anne Milton: The ‘NHS (Charges to Overseas Visitors) 2007-08 6,468,751 Regulations 2011’ impose a statutory duty on national 2008-09 5,204,856 health service hospitals to identify persons who are 2009-10 6,967,780 chargeable and to make and recover such charges from Note: them. We do not collect data from NHS foundation trusts so figures exclude The Department’s ‘Guidance on Implementing the these sites. Overseas visitors Hospital Charging Regulations’, makes Source: NHS Trust Audited Summarisation Schedules. clear that hospitals are obliged to recover debts and should pursue them to whatever extent they consider On 18 March 2011, we published a response to an reasonable in the circumstances. They have the option earlier consultation on ‘Access to the NHS by Foreign to write off debts when it would not be reasonable to Nationals’. In this response, we announced that the pursue them, such as when the patient is genuinely Government will conduct a full, wide-ranging review of without funds or has died, or attempts to secure the the rules and practices relating to charging overseas debt are unsuccessful. I understand that most hospitals visitors for using the NHS. It is hoped that this will be choose to make use of debt recovery companies if completed and put out to public consultation by early initial attempts at recovery prove unsuccessful. next year. In its response to a public consultation on 18 March 2011, the Home Office announced plans to refuse further Mrs Main: To ask the Secretary of State for Health requests for visas to enter or remain in the United (1) how many non-UK EU nationals were treated by Kingdom for persons with unpaid debts for NHS treatment the NHS in each of the last five years; [67960] in excess of £1,000. These new immigration rules are (2) what costs for NHS treatment of non-UK EU expected to be introduced in the autumn. nationals were (a) reimbursed by the relevant member A search of the Department’s correspondence database state and (b) not eligible for reimbursement in the has identified 43 items of correspondence received since latest period for which figures are available; and 1 January 2011 about the cost of treatment provided by whether there is a maximum amount other EU member the NHS to patients who are not entitled to free NHS states will pay for treatment of their citizens by the treatment. This is a minimum figure which represents NHS; [67961] correspondence received by the Department’s central 157W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 158W correspondence team only. Over the same period, the Total finished consultant episode (FCE) bed days and count and proportion of FCE bed days1 where the method of admission2 was a emergency in England Department has also received 16 parliamentary questions. from 1997-98 to 2009-103: Activity in English NHS Hospitals and English NHS On 18 March 2011, Ministers published a response to commissioned activity in the independent sector an earlier consultation on ‘Access to the NHS by Foreign Proportion of emergency FCE Nationals’ that had received 166 responses. In their Total FCE bed Emergency FCE bed days response, Ministers announced that the Government days bed days (percentage) will conduct a full, wide-ranging review of the rules and practices relating to charging overseas visitors for using 2009-10 51,493,494 33,266,856 64.6 the NHS. It is hoped that this will report early next year. 2008-09 51,841,443 33,275,501 64.2 2007-08 51,106,621 32,457,693 63.5 2006-07 53,137,106 33,937,718 63.9 Hospital Beds 2005-06 56,943,948 36,006,043 63.2 2004-05 58,399,338 37,130,383 63.6 Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health 2003-04 58,375,301 37,340,322 64.0 (1) how many (a) beds and (b) beds per 100,000 2002-03 59,290,919 37,188,864 62.7 population there were (i) in the NHS and (ii) in each 2001-02 61,073,567 36,740,738 60.2 strategic health authority area in each year since 2000-01 59,577,050 36,605,598 61.4 1997-98; [68288] 1999-2000 59,494,196 35,366,436 59.4 (2) how many acute care beds per 100,000 1998-99 62,952,038 35,681,917 56.7 population have been provided in (a) England and (b) 1997-98 64,842,364 35,713,337 55.1 each strategic health authority area in each financial 1 Episode duration (FCE bed days) year since 1997-98. [68297] Episode duration is calculated as the difference in days between the episode start date and the episode end date, where both are given. Episode duration is based on FCEs and only applies to ordinary admissions, i.e. day cases are Mr Simon Burns: The information requested has excluded (unless otherwise stated). 2 Method of admission been placed in the Library. This is the sum of the episode duration for all FCEs that ended within the financial year. This field does not include bed days where the episode was unfinished at the end of the financial year. To identify bed days as emergency bed days we have filtered the total bed days figures by admission method Hospital Wards: Gender indicating the admission was an emergency (codes 21 to 24 and 28). 21 = Emergency: via Accident and Emergency (A&E) services, including the casualty department of the provider Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health 22 = Emergency: via general practitioner (GP) 23 = Emergency: via Bed Bureau, including the Central Bureau if he will publish any reviews commissioned by his 24 = Emergency: via consultant out-patient clinic Department regarding Mixed Sex Accommodation in 28 = Emergency: other means, including patients who arrive via the A&E NHS trusts between 1997 and 2010. [68423] department of another health care provider 3 Assessing growth through time Hospital Episode Statistics (HES) figures are available from 1989-90 onwards. Changes to the figures over time need to be interpreted in the context of Mr Simon Burns: Mixed sex accommodation has no improvements in data quality and coverage (particularly in earlier years), place in a modern national health service that puts improvements in coverage of independent sector activity (particularly from patients first. The greater transparency that this Government 2006-07) and changes in NHS practice. For example, apparent reductions in activity may be due to a number of procedures which may now be undertaken in have introduced has now driven unjustified instances of out-patient settings and so no longer include in admitted patient HES data. mixed sex accommodation down by over 84% since Note: December 2010. Data quality: HES are compiled from data sent by more than 300 NHS trusts and primary care trusts in England and from some independent sector organisations During the period in question, major reviews of for activity commissioned by the English IMHS. The NHS Information Centre progress were carried out in 2004 (published 2005), for health and social care liaises closely with these organisations to encourage submission of complete and valid data and seeks to minimise inaccuracies. 2007 and 2009. These reviews, “Elimination of Mixed While this brings about improvement over time, some shortcomings remain. Sex Hospital Accommodation, Privacy and Dignity—a Source: report by the Chief Nursing Officer into mixed sex Hospital Episode Statistics (HES), The NHS Information Centre for Health and Social Care accommodation in hospitals” and “The Story so far— Delivering same-sex accommodation—a progress report” respectively, have been placed in the Library. Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health In addition, a number of less formal exercises to how many emergency readmissions there have been in gather information were undertaken. The cost to identify the NHS in each financial year since 1997-98; and what and publish these reviews is deemed to be disproportionate. the rate of patients readmitted as an emergency in the NHS was for each such year. [68286] Hospitals: Admissions

Mr Simon Burns: Information on the number of Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health emergency admissions within 28 days of previous discharge how many emergency bed days there have been in the from hospital, both in absolute numbers and as a percentage NHS in England (a) in total and (b) expressed as a of the total number of hospital admissions, is set out in proportion of the total number of bed days in each the following table for the years currently available. financial year since 1997-98. [68224] Admissions for maternity and obstetrics, mental health specialities, and cancer treatment are excluded. Figures Mr Simon Burns: The information requested is in the for different years are not fully comparable because of following table. differences in case mix. 159W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 160W

Emergency readmissions National summary of data from the “Compendium of clinical and health indicators”, NCHOD June 2011 1999- 1998-99 2000 2000-01 2001-02 2002-03 2003-04 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09

Total number of emergency readmissions within 28 days of previous discharge1 0-15 60,531 60,334 59,268 62,092 61,411 62,714 66,014 72,347 72,856 77,655 82,869 16-74 204,905 207,017 210,914 212,302 216,541 243,268 268,251 292,754 302,021 309,658 331,851 75+ 94,283 96,329 99,262 101,865 108,607 123,672 139,007 152,279 154,056 159,135 176,701 All ages 359,719 363,680 369,444 376,259 386,559 429,654 473,272 517,380 528,933 546,448 591,421

Number of emergency readmissions as a proportion of all admissions (percentage)2 0-15 8.09 8.22 8.30 8.44 8.52 8.49 8.91 9.38 9.53 10.01 10.35 16-74 7.25 7.45 7.57 7.69 7.67 8.09 8.63 9.01 9.25 9.39 9.80 75+ 10.46 10.80 11.05 11.23 11.66 12.36 13.29 13.90 13.91 14.08 14.61 All ages 8.04 8.25 8.40 8.55 8.6 9.05 9.67 10.12 10.30 10.50 10.96 1 Emergency readmissions are defined as emergency admissions within 28 days of discharge from hospital from a previous admission. The two admissions do not have to be for the same condition or at the same hospital. Episodes coded as maternity or mental health, or episodes with a diagnosis of cancer, are excluded. See the NCHOD website for further detail on the definitions. 2 Figures for different years are not directly comparable because of changes in case mix. For a comparable run of figures, standardised to adjust for differences in age, sex, method of admission, diagnosis and procedure see the detailed tables on the NCHOD website. Source: National Centre for Health Outcomes Development “Clinical and Health Outcomes Knowledge Base”, June 2011. Now maintained by the NHS Information Centre and available at http://www.nchod.nhs.uk/ Data for 1998-99 is from the previous update of the compendium and may not be fully comparable with that for later years.

Hospitals: Information It is not appropriate for Ministers to become involved in the micromanagement of these services; these are matters for national health service organisations to determine locally. Mr Russell Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what assessment he has made of potential cost Hospitals: Waiting Lists savings in using existing patient bedside systems to deliver information to (a) patients and (b) service Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health users. [68670] what the size of the NHS waiting list per 100,000 population was in each year since 1997. [68427] Mr Simon Burns: The following table shows the available Mr Simon Burns: No assessments have been made of data for total numbers of patients waiting for an in-patient potential cost savings in using the existing patient bedside admission, for a first out-patient appointment and on systems in delivering information to patients and service referral to treatment (RTT) pathways and the numbers users. The Department does not collect information per 100,000 population, at the end of March in each relating to the cost of these services. financial year from 1996-97 to 2010-11.

In-patient Out-patient England waiting list per waiting list per RTT incomplete In-patient Out-patient RTT incomplete population 100,000 100,000 pathways per waiting list waiting list pathways (Thousands) population population 100,000 population

1996-97 1,131,201 n/a n/a 48,665 2,324 n/a n/a 1997-98 1,276,965 n/a n/a 48,821 2,616 n/a n/a 1998-99 1,060,356 n/a n/a 49,033 2,163 n/a n/a 1999-2000 1,024,654 n/a n/a 49,233 2,081 n/a n/a 2000-01 995,123 n/a n/a 49,450 2,012 n/a n/a 2001-02 1,021,604 n/a n/a 49,649 2,058 n/a n/a 2002-03 975,338 n/a n/a 49,863 1,956 n/a n/a 2003-04 890,205 n/a n/a 50,110 1,777 n/a n/a 2004-05 808,810 1,305,043 n/a 50,466 1,603 2,586 n/a 2005-06 771,123 1,141,343 n/a 50,764 1,519 2,248 n/a 2006-07 691,939 953,270 n/a 51,106 1,354 1,865 n/a 2007-08 526,237 754,971 3,056,710 51,465 1,023 1,467 5,939 2008-09 565,822 907,746 2,360,453 51,810 1,092 1,752 4,556 2009-10 614,121 974,064 2,420,535 52,234 1,176 1,865 4,634 2010-11 n/a n/a 2,455,424 52,577 n/a n/a 4,670 Definitions: In-patient—patients waiting for inpatient admission following a decision to admit. Out-patient—patients waiting for first outpatient appointment following general practitioner referral. RTT—patients on an incomplete pathway following referral, regardless of position on pathway. Sources: Department of Health monthly monitoring and RTT returns. Office for National Statistics population figures. 161W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 162W

Hotels Mass Media

Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what the cost to the public purse was for (a) hotel what the cost to the public purse has been for the accommodation and (b) four or five star hotel production of his Department’s national media accommodation for (i) civil servants in his Department, coverage evaluations in each month for which one was (ii) Ministers in his Department and (iii) special produced since May 1997. [68214] advisers in his Department in each financial year since 1997. [68210] Mr Simon Burns: The Department does not hold central records on the cost of media coverage evaluation Gavin Williamson: To ask the Secretary of State for and attempting to gather information for each month Health what the cost to the public purse was of (a) four since 1997 would incur disproportionate costs. star, (b) five star and (c) other hotel accommodation for (i) staff, (ii) Ministers and (iii) special advisers in his Department between (A) May 2006 and June 2007 and Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health (B) June 2009 and May 2010. [68371] how many press briefings were held by his Department in each month between May 1997 and May 2010; and what the subject of each such press briefing was. Mr Simon Burns: Data from our central contracts is [68218] not available before November 2006. It is not possible to distinguish between the class of hotel or traveller without incurring disproportionate cost. The cost of Mr Simon Burns: The Department has held a number hotel accommodation from the central contract data is of briefings for media since 1997 on policy announcements as follows: and public health issues, including weekly briefings on pandemic flu in 2009. £ The Department does not maintain a central record November 2006 to March 2007 447,318.79 of when media briefings have been held, or on which subject. Nor as a matter of routine does the Department’s April 2007 to March 2008 1,247,608.81 media centre keep the dates and subject matter of April 2008 to March 2009 1,633,839.11 media briefings from each year. April 2009 to March 2010 1,752,877.82 April 2010 to March 2011 1,327,827.22 Since May 2010, media briefings have included one April 2011 to date 189,924.52 on 30 November 2010 on publication of the White Paper “Healthy Lives, Healthy People”, and on 12 July 2010 on publication of the White Paper “Equity and November 2006 to June 2007 725,261.06 Excellence: Liberating the NHS”. June 2009 to May 2010 1,752,534.93

Gavin Williamson: To ask the Secretary of State for James Cook University Hospital: Ambulance Services Health what the total cost to the public purse was of his Department’s national media coverage evaluations Mrs Chapman: To ask the Secretary of State for in each month between (a) May 2006 and June 2007 Health what the average emergency ambulance journey and (b) June 2009 and May 2010. [68366] time was to James Cook University Hospital from Darlington in the latest period for which figures are Mr Simon Burns: The Department does not hold available. [67980] central records on the cost of media coverage evaluation in each month between (a) May 2006 and June 2007 Mr Simon Burns: The information requested is not and (b) June 2009 and May 2010, and attempting to centrally held. The Department does not collect information gather information for each month would incur on the average ambulance journey times by national disproportionate costs. health service ambulance trusts. The hon. Member may wish to approach the chief executive of Newcastle Primary Care Trust, which is the lead commissioner for Midwives: Manpower the North East Ambulance Service NHS Trust, and the chief executive of the North East Ambulance Service NHS Trust direct, which may hold some relevant Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Health information. pursuant to the answer of 20 October 2010, Official Report, columns 782-3W, on maternity services, whether the national assessment of midwifery Learning Disability workforce needs has completed; and if he will make a statement. [68698] Tom Blenkinsop: To ask the Secretary of State for Health if he will estimate the average minimum lifetime Anne Milton: The Department has commissioned the financial requirements of an adult with learning Centre for Workforce Intelligence (CfWI) to provide disabilities who has (a) high, (b) moderate and (c) intelligence and information on the national maternity low care needs. [68040] workforce. The CfWI will report back early in 2012 with their findings to inform future local workforce Paul Burstow: This information is not held centrally. planning and commissioning decisions. 163W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 164W

Milk: Contamination PCTs for these sites received 75% to 80% of their funding from a central budget of £33 million—an average Tessa Munt: To ask the Secretary of State for Health of £750,000 per site, ranging from £390,000 to £1.3 when milk supplies from dairy farms in Somerset were million. The Department has no further figures relating last tested for contamination with (a) iodine 131, (b) to the costs of NHS walk-in centres. strontium 90, (c) caesium 137 and (d) plutonium. No central data are held on the average cost of a [68556] consultation at a NHS walk-in centre The following table shows average cost per consultation undertaken in Anne Milton: The Food Standards Agency (FSA) general practice. advise that, as part of a routine radiological monitoring GP average surgery consultation costs programme, samples of milk are regularly taken from Average cost per consultation (£) six farms around the Hinkley Point nuclear site in Somerset. The most recent testing of milk samples from 2002-03 16.8 Somerset was in May 2011. The analytical method used 2003-04 18.0 can detect for the presence of both Caesium-137 and 2004-05 22.1 Iodine-131. Neither of these radionuclides were detected 2005-06 24.5 in the samples in May and are not routinely detected in 2006-07 24.0 samples from Somerset. 2007-08 23.7 No routine testing for plutonium or strontium is 2008-09 23.8 carried out on milk samples from around nuclear power stations as they do not routinely discharge any of these NHS: Competition radionuclides. However, dairy milk samples are collected from 34 locations and analysed for strontium. Although two of these locations are in the south west, none are in Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Somerset. if he will publish any reviews commissioned by his Department regarding the use of (a) patient choice Results of this monitoring programme are published and (b) competition in NHS trusts between 1997 and annually in the Radioactivity in Food and the Environment 2010. [68422] report (RIFE) at: www.food.gov.uk/science/surveillance/radiosurv/rife/ Mr Simon Burns: Reports received by or commissioned and interim provisional results are published twice per by the Department would not normally be published by year on the FSA website at: the Department but rather published by the institution www.food.gov.uk/science/surveillance/radiosurv/rife/ responsible for the work. radsurv2010 For example, the Department commissioned a NHS Walk-in Centres comprehensive report on Patient Choice from the Kings fund which was published in 2010: www.kingsfund.org.uk/publications/patient_choice.html Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health how many attendances at walk-in centres there have Further evidence that the Department has considered been in each year since 2002; what the cost has been for in relation to choice and competition can be found in the (a) establishment and (b) maintenance of walk-in the relevant impact assessments relating to the Health centres in each year; and what the average cost of an and Social Care Bill 2011 (published in January 2011): attendance at (i) a walk-in centre and (ii) a GP surgery www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publicationsandstatistics/Publications/ was in each year since 2002. [68293] PublicationsLegislation/DH_123583 and to the guidance on extending patient choice of Mr Simon Burns: Since 2003-04, data on the numbers provider (published July 2011): of visits to national health service walk-in centres have www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publicationsandstatistics/Publications/ been collected on a quarterly basis. Annual figures are PublicationsPolicyAndGuidance/DH_128455 set out in the following table: Additionally, it is the responsibility of the Co-operation Accident and Emergency (A&E) attendances and Competition Panel (CCP) to publish completed Type 4 Departments—NHS reviews regarding potential breaches of the Principles walk-in centres and Rules for Co-operation and Competition, and proposed 2003-04 1,381,841 mergers of providers of NHS services. 2004-05 2,031,430 Any reviews which the CCP has completed are available 2005-06 2,509,957 to view on their website: 2006-07 2,372,992 www.ccpanel.org.uk 2007-08 2,392,365 The following is a list of evidence the Department 2008-09 2,514,690 has considered for choice and competition policies. This 2009-10 2,699,798 list is not exhaustive, but an indication of some of the 2010-11 2,486,793 key evidence sources of which the Department is aware: Source: Bloom, N., Propper, C, Seller, S. and Van Reenan, J. (2010) The Department of Health—Quarterly Monitoring of A&E Impact of Competition on Management Quality: Evidence from NHS walk-in centres are now the responsibility of Public Hospitals CMPO WP 10/237 primary care trusts (PCTs) and are funded and run in Cooper, Z., Gibbons, S., Jones, S. and McQuire, A. (2010a) the same way as other front-line NHS services. Before Does Hospital Competition Save Lives? Evidence from The English this responsibility was handed over in 2005-06, host NHS Patient Choice Reforms, LSE WP 16/2010 165W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 166W

Copper, Z., Gibbons, S., Jones, S. and McQuire, A. (2010b) Taylor, R., Implications of offering “Patient Choice” for routine Does Hospital Competition Improve Efficiency? An Analysis of adult surgical referrals. (2004) Dr Foster Limited, University of the Recent Market-Based Reforms to the English NHS CEP Nottingham discussion paper no.988 Picker Institute Dixon, A. and LeGrand. J., (2006) “Is greater patient choice Thorlby, R. and Gregory, S., Free Choice at the point of consistent with equity? The case of the English NHS”. “Journal referral. London King’s Fund (2008) of Health Services Research & Policy, vol 11, no3, pp 162-6 British Social Attitudes Survey, NatCen, Dranove, D and Statterthwaite, M. (1992) Monopolistic www.natcen.ac.uk/study/british-social-attitudes-25th-report/ Competition When Price and Quality Are Not Perfectly Observable findings - (2009) Rand Journal of Economics, 23,247-262 Dixon, A., Robertson, R., Appleby, J, Burge, P., Devlin, N., Gaynor, M., Moreno-Serra, R. and Propper, C. (2010) Death Magee, H., Patient Choice: How patients choose and how providers by Market Power: Reform, Competition and Patient Outcomes in respond The Kings Fund (2010) the NHS CMPO WP 10/242 Dixon, S., Report on the national patient choice survey—February Gaynor, M. (2004) Competition and quality in hospital markets. 2010 England Department of Health (2010) What do we know? What don’t we know? Economic Publique 15, 3-40 Gowrisankaran, G. and Town, R. J. (2003) Competition, Payers, NHS: Drugs and, Hospital Quality Health Services Research 38, 1403-1422 Hamilton, B. H. and Bramley-Harker, R. E. (1999) The impact Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health of the NHS Reforms on Queues and Surgical Outcomes in what drugs have been made available for the first time England: Evidence from hip fracture Patients The Economic to patients on the NHS since 5 May 2010; and how Journal 109, 437-462 many patients have received such drugs. [68174] Hughes, R. G. and Luft, H. (1991) Service Patterns in Local Hospital Markets: Complementary or Medical Arms Race Health Mr Simon Burns: The Medicines and Healthcare Service Management Research 4, 131-139 products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) is responsible Joskow, P (1980) The effects of Competition and Regulation for licensing medicines in the United Kingdom. Since on Hospital Bed Supply and the reservation Quality of the May 2010 five medicines containing new active substances Hospital Bell Journal of Economics III, 421-447 were licensed by the MHRA for the UK only. Since Klein, R. (1999) Markets, Politicians and the NHS British January 2010 another 56 medicines containing new Medical Journal 319, 1383-1384 Le Grand, J. (1999) Competition, active substances were licensed in the European Union Cooperation or Control? Tales from the British National Health by the European Medicines Agency (EMA) through the Services Health Affairs 18, 27-39 centralised procedure to which the MHRA contributed OECD Health Data 2010 by providing scientific expertise. When a medicine Propper, C, (1996) Market Structure and Prices: The response containing a new active substance is licensed it does not of Hospitals in the UK National Health Service to Competition mean it automatically becomes available on the national Journal of Public Economics health service. Propper, C, Burgess, S., and Gossage, D. (2008) Competition Information on the number of people prescribed a and Quality: Evidence from the internal Market 1991-1996 The Economic Journal 118,138-170 medicine, the dosage or the medical condition being treated, is not collected centrally. Propper, C, Burgess, S., and Green, K. (2004) Does Competition Between Hospitals Improve the Quality of Care? Hospital Death New active substances licensed in the UK only Rates and the NHS Internal Market Journal of Public Economics, 1. PL 00133/0234 - Blistex 88, 1247-1272 2. PL 18024/0009 - Sativex Propper, C, Wilson, D. and Soderlund, N. (1998) The effects of 3. PL 19364/0033 - Normicron Regulation and Competition in the NHS Internal Market: The case of GP Fundholder Prices Journal of Health Economics 17, 4. PL 32363/0001 - Livazo 645-674 5. PL 32828/0001 - Plenaxis. Soderland, N., CSABA, I., Gray, A., Milne, R. and Raferty, J. New active substances licensed through the EMA (1997) Impact of the NHS Reforms on English hospital productivity: 1. EU/1/11/703/ - Xgeva an analysis of the first three years British Medical Journal 315, U26-9 2. EU/1/11/700/ - Benlysta 3. EU/1/11/698/ - Yervoy Nolte, E. McKee, CM., Measuring the Health of Nations: analysis of mortality amenable to healthcare BMJ 2003; 327:1129 4. EU/1/11/696/ - Bydureon (2003) 5. EU/1/11/695/ - Leganto Eurocare-4, www.eurocare.it 6. EU/1/11/694/ - Nulojix OECD, Health at a Glance 2009 (2009) 7. EU/1/11/692/ - Yellox European Antimicrobial Resistance Surveillance System (EARSS) 8. EU/1/11/691/ - Eliquis incidence of MRSA per 100,000 patient days (2008) 9. EU/1/11/688/ - Cinryze The Tallinn Charter, Health Systems for Health and Wealth 10. EU/1/11/687/ - Hizentra Draft Charter World Health Organisation (2008) 11. EU/1/11/686/ - Rasilamlo Is the NHS becoming more patient centred? Trends from the 12. EU/1/11/681/ - Trobalt national surveys of patients in England 2002 to 2007 Picker Institute (2007) 13. EU/1/11/680/ - Riprazo HCT British Social Attitudes Survey, NatCen, 14. EU/1/11/679/ - Pravafenix http://www.natcen.ac.uk/study/british-social-attitudes-25th- 15. EU/1/11/678/ - Halaven report/our-findings - (2009) 16.EU/1/11/677/ - Gilenya The Patient Association’s response to “Liberating the NHS: 17. EU/1/11/676/ - Jevtana Greater Choice and Control” The Patient Association (2011) 18. EU/1/11/674/ - Repso 167W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 168W

19. EU/1/11/673/ - Ifirmacombi 44. EU/1/10/632/ - Tolura 20. EU/1/11/672/ - Xeplion 45. EU/1/10/631/ - Nivestim 21. EU/1/11/671/ -Xiapex 46. EU/1/10/630/ - Docefrez 22. EU/1/11/669/ - Teysuno 47. EU/1/10/628/ - Votrient 23.EU/1/11/668/ - Daliresp 48. EU/1/10/625/ - Arzerra 24. EU/1/11/667/ - Esbriet 49. EU/1/10/623/ - DuoCover 25. EU/1/11/666/ - Libertek 50. EU/1/10/622/ - Tepadina 26. EU/1/10/664/ - Pumarix 51. EU/1/10/621/ - Ristaben 27. EU/1/10/661/ - Fluenz 52. EU/1/10/620/ - Ristfor 28. EU/1/10/660/ - Potactasol 53. EU/1/10/619/ - DuoPlavin 29. EU/1/10/659/ - Iasibon 54. EU/1/10/618/ - Prolia 30. EU/1/10/658/ - Aflunov 55. EU/1/10/614/ - Menveo 31. EU/1/10/657/ - Prepandemic Influenza vaccine (H5N1) 56. EU/1/10/612/ - Revolade. 32. EU/1/10/656/ - Possia 33. EU/1/10/655/ - Brilique NHS: Expenditure 34. EU/1/10/648/ - Twynsta 35. EU/1/10/647/ - Myclausen Mr Marcus Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for 36. EU/1/10/646/ - VPRIV Health what NHS spending per head of population in 37. EU/1/10/645/ - Brinavess (a) England, (b) Warwickshire and (c) Nuneaton was 38. EU/1/10/644/ - PecFent in each of the last five years. [68149] 39. EU/1/10/643/ - Rapiscan Mr Simon Burns: The amount spent per capita in 40. EU/1/10/641/ - Ruconest total in England by all primary care trusts (PCTs) and 41.EU/1/10/640/ - Sycrest by Warwickshire PCT and its predecessor organisations, 42. EU/1/10/638/ - Ozurdex in each of the last five years, is shown in the following 43. EU/1/10/636/ - Daxas table.

£ Organisation 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10

Rugby PCT 1,243 — — — — North Warwickshire PCT 1,168 — — — — South Warwickshire PCT 1,114 — — — — Warwickshire PCT — 1,231 1,315 1,362 1,510 All England 1,286 1,315 1,428 1,499 1,650

Data in respect of expenditure per capita in Nuneaton NHS work force changes commissioned by his are not held centrally. Department between January 1997 and May 2010. [68425] Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what the average cost was of delivering an episode of care in the NHS in (a) 1997 and (b) 2010 at constant Mr Simon Burns: We interpret my hon. Friend’s prices. [68295] question as to referring to estimates in changes to NHS Mr Simon Burns: The average cost of delivering an work force numbers between January 1997 and May episode of care in the NHS was £1,410 in 1997-98 and 2010. £1,395 in 2009-10. Two tables giving this detail have been placed in the The figures include elective in-patients (including excess Library. bed days), non-elective in-patients (including excess bed days) and day case activity. The 2009-10 figure covers costs to national health service providers (NHS trusts, Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health foundation trusts and primary care trust (PCT) provider how many people have been made redundant by arms) of providing these services, as reported to the primary care trusts and subsequently re-employed Department through the annual reference cost collection. within the NHS (a) directly and (b) on a temporary or The 1997-98 figure does not include costs reported by contract basis in each financial year since 1997-98. PCT provider arms, as the reference cost collection for [68431] that year covered acute trusts only. Both figures are inclusive of the Market Forces Factor. The 1997-98 figures have been uplifted by using the Mr Simon Burns: The estimated numbers of people Gross Domestic Product (GDP) deflator. made redundant by primary care trusts and subsequently NHS: Manpower re-employed (up until 30 April 2011) within the national health service directly and on a temporary or contract Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health basis in each financial year are shown in the following if he will place in the Library a copy of all estimates for table. 169W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 170W

Information on the prevalence of overweight and Permanent Fixed term obesity in adults is not available by primary care trust 2008-09 59 40 (PCT) and is available only by strategic health authority 2009-10 26 13 (SHA) for 2008. Information on the prevalence of 2010-11 79 60 overweight and obesity in children by PCT is available only for certain age groups and from 2006-07. Information These estimates are based on data extracted from the on the number of adults and children who were overweight Electronic Staff Record (ESR) Data Warehouse and or obese is available only at a disproportionate cost. therefore do not include staff who may have been Information on the percentage of overweight and re-employed by general practices, or Moorfields Eye obese adults aged 16 and over in England is available in Hospital NHS Foundation Trust or Chesterfield Royal the “Health Survey for England—2009 trend tables”, Hospital NHS Foundation Trust. ESR has been used Adult trend tables, Table 4. Information is provided for across the NHS since 2008. Information pertaining to adults in England for the years 1993 to 2009. This prior to 2008 is not held centrally. information is available at: NHS: Standards www.ic.nhs.uk/pubs/hse09trends The proportion of adults aged 16 and over recorded Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for as overweight and obese by SHA for 2008 is available in Health what steps he is taking to improve patients’ Table 7.3 on page 194 of the “Health Survey for England— outcomes in the NHS. [68195] 2008: Physical activity and fitness”. The information is available at: Mr Simon Burns: The ‘NHS Outcomes Framework www.ic.nhs.uk/pubs/hse08physicalactivity 2011/12’ was published in December 2010 and signals Information on the percentage of overweight and the direction of travel for the national health service in obese children in England is available in the “Health focusing on outcomes. It is intended to support continuous Survey for England—2009 trend tables”, Child trend improvements in outcomes for patients across the range tables, Table 4. Information is provided for children of activities the NHS is responsible for delivering. aged 2 to l5 in England for the years 1995 to 2009. This For example, in Domain 5: ‘Treating and caring for information is available at: people in a safe environment and protecting people www.ic.nhs.uk/pubs/hse09trends from avoidable harm’, there are two indicators which will track the progress of the NHS in reducing incidences The proportion of children aged 2 to 15 recorded as of healthcare associated infections. Existing data show overweight and obese by SHA for 2008 is available in that in the year ending March 2011 the number of Table 13.3 on page 327 of the “Health Survey for methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus bloodstream England—2008: Physical activity and fitness”. The infections decreased by 22% and Clostridium difficile information is available from the following link: infections decreased by 15% on the year before. These www.ic.nhs.uk/pubs/hse08physicalactivity are positive outcomes in this domain, and we expect Further information on the prevalence of overweight improvements to occur across all five domains. and obesity in children at a PCT level is available To support the outcomes and indicators in each through the National Child Measurement Programme. domain of the NHS Outcomes Framework, a suite of Information is available for children in Reception (4 to National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence 5 years) and year 6 (10 to 11 years) for the years 2006-07 (NICE) Quality Standards are being developed, and we to 2009-10. Information showing prevalence of overweight have commissioned NICE to produce two Quality and obesity among children in those two school years Standards on patient experience. by PCT is available for each year from the following links. Nursing Home Properties Table 2 of the accompanying excel file of the “National Child Measurement Programme: England, 2009/10 school Emily Thornberry: To ask the Secretary of State for year” report is available on the NHS Information Centre Health if he will examine the financial position of website at: Nursing Home Properties. [68460] www.ic.nhs.uk/statistics-and-data-collections/health-and- lifestyles/obesity/national-child-measurement-programme- Paul Burstow: It is for the Care Quality Commission, england-2009-10-school-year as the regulator of adult social care services, to satisfy itself that a care service provider is financially viable. Table 2 of the accompanying excel file of the “National Child Measurement Programme: England, 2008/09 school Obesity year” report is available on the NHS Information Centre website at: Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health www.ic.nhs.uk/statistics-and-data-collections/health-and- what proportion of (a) adults and (b) children were (i) lifestyles/obesity/national-child-measurement-programme- overweight and (ii) obese in each primary care trust england-2008-09-school-year area in each year since 1997; and if he will estimate the Table 2 of the accompanying excel file of “National number of (A) adults and (B) children who were (1) Child Measurement Programme: results from the 2007/08 overweight and (2) obese in each primary care trust in school year, headline results” report is available on the each year since 1997. [68428] NHS Information Centre website at: www.ic.nhs.uk/statistics-and-data-collections/health-and- Anne Milton: Information is not available in the lifestyles/obesity/national-child-measurement-programme- format requested. results-from-the-school-year-2007-08 171W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 172W

Table 2 of the accompanying excel file of “National (3) if he will take steps to implement the Child Measurement Programme: results from the 2006/07 recommendations of the All-Party Parliamentary school year, headline results” report is available on the Osteoporosis Group report on the role of nutrition in NHS Information Centre website at: preventing osteoporosis and promoting good bone www.ic.nhs.uk/statistics-and-data-collections/health-and- health. [68399] lifestyles/obesity/national-child-measurement-programme- results-from-the-2006-07-school-year Paul Burstow: The All-Party Parliamentary Group Copies of all these publications have already been on Osteoporosis’ report of its inquiry into the role of placed in the Library. nutrition in preventing osteoporosis and promoting bone Organs: Donors health sets out a number of recommendations for Government, the national health service, local authorities, social care providers, those responsible for delivering Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Health public health messages and the food, advertising, retail what progress his Department has made in and cosmetics industries. implementing the recommendation of the Organ Donation Taskforce to increase the number of organs In our recently published social marketing strategy, available for transplantation. [68506] ‘Changing Behaviours, Improving Outcomes’, we have set out our intentions to expand on the Change4Life Anne Milton: Implementation of the Organ Donation programme to include all relevant advice to promote Taskforce recommendations has seen donor rates rise healthier lifestyles. This will include broader dietary by around 28% since 2008 and over 18 million people— and physical activity messages. some 28% of the United Kingdom population—have The Scientific Advisory Committee on Nutrition (SACN) registered on the Organ Donor Register. Work continues is currently reviewing the data on vitamin D and health at a local, regional and national level to increase donor in light of the new evidence that has become available rates still further to the 50% by 2013 anticipated by the since it published its position statement ‘Update on Organ Donation Taskforce. Vitamin D’, in 2007. This review will consider the Future action will focus on increasing consent rates; vitamin D status of United Kingdom populations, the ensuring that the potential for donation can be optimised thresholds to define deficiency and the relative contributions in all cases; and increasing donation from emergency of diet and sunlight exposure to maintain vitamin D medicine. This will be achieved through a variety of status. It is expected that SACN’s review will take three means, including through the clinical leads for organ to four years to complete. donation, donation committees and donation chairs in Technology Appraisal guidance published by the acute trusts driving improvement locally; regional National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence collaboration to share learning and ongoing work to (NICE) supports calcium and vitamin D supplementation raise the profile and benefits of organ donation and in post-menopausal women receiving osteoporosis treatment transplantation with the national health service, professional unless clinicians are confident that the patient already groups and with the public. has adequate levels. Healthcare professionals are expected to take the guidance fully into account when exercising Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Health their clinical judgment. However, the guidance does not whether he has considered the merits of implementing override the individual responsibility of health care a soft opt-out system for organ donation in England. professionals to make decisions appropriate to the [68507] circumstances of the individual patient, in consultation with the patient and/or guardian or carer. Commissioners Anne Milton: In 2008, the independent Organ Donation and providers are reminded by NICE of their responsibilities Taskforce examined the case for moving to a system of to implement this guidance in light of local circumstances. presumed consent for organ donation. It recommended Resources published as part of the prevention package against it, concluding that while such a system might for older people, are designed to support the NHS and have the potential to deliver benefits, it would present local authorities in prioritising and effectively commissioning significant difficulties which might not bring about the services that support the health, well-being and desired increase in organ donation rates. Action has independence of older people. The document “Falls been taken to strengthen the donation infrastructure and fractures: effective interventions in health and social and since the publication of the taskforce’s report in care” sets out a systematic approach to falls and fracture 2008, organ donor rates have increased by around 28%. prevention. This includes an objective to prevent frailty, We need to give time for these improvements to work preserve bone health and reduce accidents through through fully and assess their success, before looking to preserving physical activity, healthy lifestyles and reducing change the system further. environmental hazards. Osteoporosis: Health Services The NHS Outcomes Framework 2011-12 includes an indicator, which focuses on: Tracey Crouch: To ask the Secretary of State for ‘improving recovery from fragility fractures—the proportion Health (1) if he will take steps to include osteoporosis of patients recovering to their previous levels of mobility/walking in the Quality and Outcomes Framework of the GP ability at (i) 30 days and (ii) 120 days’. contract; [68397] Following consultation on the draft Adult Social (2) if he will include indicators on reducing hospital Care Outcomes Framework, an indicator on the proportion admissions for fractures in older people as part of the of people suffering fragility fractures who recover their new outcomes frameworks for the NHS, adult social previous level of mobility/walking after 120 days was care and public health in England; [68398] excluded for 2011-12 as further work was required on 173W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 174W data development and the analysis of the impact of Out-patients: Attendance social care. However, this does not preclude the inclusion of such an indicator in future years. In the recent consultation on proposals for a public Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health health outcomes framework, an indicator on ‘Acute how many out-patient appointments were missed (a) admissions as a result of falls or fall injuries for over in England and (b) in each relevant NHS area in each 65s’ was included. This was selected for inclusion on the financial year since 1997-98; what proportion of the basis that falls account for the majority of admissions number of out-patient appointments such missed to hospital for unintentional injury among older people, out-patient appointments represented in each relevant and so falls prevention is a key public health priority. NHS area; and what estimate he has made of the The response to the consultation was, in general, very overall cost to the NHS of such missed appointments supportive of the broad concept of the outcomes in each financial year since 1997-98. [68291] framework, its breadth and the focus on life-course and health inequalities, which are both particularly relevant to the rates of falls in older people. As we develop the final outcomes framework which we intend to publish Mr Simon Burns: The information requested is shown later this year, we will consider the full range of responses in the following tables: from stakeholders to the consultation to determine the Proportion of patients not attending out-patient appointments for NHS providers final set of indicators for inclusion in the final framework. in England 1997-98 to 2010-11 Total out-patient Work to reduce hospital admissions due to fractures appointments Total DNAs1 DNA1 rate (%) among older people will require joint effort across the 1997-98 47,264,698 5,629,429 11.91 wider public health, NHS and adult social care systems. 1998-99 47,803,368 5,648,971 11.82 Alongside the development of the public health outcomes 1999- 48,923,209 5,882,510 12.02 framework over the next few weeks and months, we will 2000 work with stakeholders to clarify and publicise the close 2000-01 49,524,159 5,954,819 12.02 alignment of all three outcomes frameworks, supporting 2001-02 49,579,825 5,904,847 11.91 local Health and Well-being Boards in their work to 2002-03 49,529,924 5,765,099 11.64 improve outcomes across the board and to encourage 2003-04 50,996,765 5,877,153 11.52 joint work across the NHS, local authority and providers 2004-05 50,476,667 5,709,066 11.31 to support older people in this case to live longer, 2005-06 50,817,978 5,596,865 11.01 healthier lives. 2006-07 50,146,190 5,436,135 10.84 The prioritisation of potential indicators for inclusion 2007-08 51,123,275 5,420,582 10.60 in the Quality and Outcomes Framework is the 2008-09 54,517,526 5,804,238 10.65 responsibility of NICE. Following publication of the 2009-10 56,595,028 5,855,483 10.35 indicators, NHS Employers negotiate with the British 2010-11 57,210,818 5,720,446 10.00 Medical Association on which indicators should be 1Did not attend. Note: For 2001-02 the England level data does not equal the sum of health authorities in the following table due to an organisation that does included within the Quality and Outcome Framework, not have an associated health authority. Source: Department of Health; Quarterly achievement levels and the value of those indicators. Activity Return.

Proportion of patients not attending out-patient appointments for NHS providers in each relevant NHS area 1997-98 to 2010-11 1997-98 1998-99 1999-2000 Total Total DNA1 Total Total DNA1 Total Total DNA1 rate Name appointments DNAs1 rate (%) appointments DNAs1 rate (%) appointments DNAs1 (%)

Northern 6,274,343 729,913 11.63 6,308,365 742,460 11.77 6,378,299 789,636 12.38 and Yorkshire Trent 4,894,893 524,566 10.72 4,938,281 523,492 10.60 5,015,449 541,815 10.80 West 4,392,417 416,888 9.49 4,433,371 408,231 9.21 4,535,205 425,198 9.38 Midlands North West 7,980,328 1,179,726 14.78 8,099,607 1,203,236 14.86 8,302,046 1,259,972 15.18 Eastern 6,411,419 797,219 12.43 6,428,049 776,560 12.08 6,728,544 827,805 12.30 London 5,242,156 484,066 9.23 5,290,796 479,234 9.06 5,385,813 486,834 9.04 South East 5,003,148 629,156 12.58 5,121,215 626,061 12.22 5,250,761 642,063 12.23 South West 7,065,994 867,895 12.28 7,183,684 889,697 12.38 7,327,092 909,187 12.41

2000-01 2001-02 2002-03 Total Total DNA1 Total Total DNA1 Total Total DNA1 Name appointments DNAs1 rate (%) appointments DNAs1 Rate (%) appointments DNAs1 rate (%)

Norfolk, Suffolk 1,933,862 164,431 8.50 1,962,035 166,705 8.50 1,930,114 157,080 8.14 and Cambridgeshire Health Authority Bedfordshire and 1,242,749 148,280 11.93 1,195,242 137,650 11.52 1,215,039 131,460 10.82 Hertfordshire Health Authority 175W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 176W

2000-01 2001-02 2002-03 Total Total DNA1 Total Total DNA1 Total Total DNA1 Name appointments DNAs1 rate (%) appointments DNAs1 Rate (%) appointments DNAs1 rate (%)

Essex Health 1,325,507 144,645 10.91 1,322,654 140,155 10.60 1,355,615 149,227 11.01 Authority North West 2,109,750 350,991 16.64 2,167,989 356,384 16.44 2,165,772’ 354,149 16.35 London Health Authority North Central 2,322,723 361,185 15.55 2,225,523 359,363 16.15 2,222,116 345,921 15.57 London Health Authority North East 1,743,985 285,784 16.39 1,716,200 282,614 16.47 1,709,264 274,762 16.07 London Health Authority South East 1,833,867 315,568 17.21 1,864,262 350,057 18.78 1,891,134 328,197 17.35 London Health Authority South West 1,428,750 167,721 11.74 1,457,828 173,683 11.91 1,452,596 169,055 11.64 London Health Authority Northumberland, 1,694,713 199,935 11.80 1,770,447 204,001 11.52 1,781,954 193,269 10.85 Tyne and Wear Health Authority County Durham 1,162,247 139,591 12.01 1,153,703 129,055 11.19 1,083,311 116,507 10.75 and Tees Valley Health Authority North and East 1,307,370 140,220 10.73 1,297,353 140,143 10.80 1,292,099 139,034 10.76 Yorkshire and Northern Lincolnshire Health Authority West Yorkshire 2,312,647 286,890 12.41 2,263,697 279,845 12.36 2,243,596 283,183 12.62 Health Authority Cumbria and 1,715,030 179,295 10.45 1,688,314 176,155 10.43 1,578,803 165,284 10.47 Lancashire Health Authority Greater 3,194,427 411,778 12.89 3,282,427 419,265 12.77 3,409,985 429,223 12.59 Manchester Health Authority Cheshire and 2,780,559 367,361 13.21 2,859,531 358,515 12.54 2,998,264 353,665 11.80 Merseyside Health Authority Thames Valley 1,729,964 179,403 10.37 1,725,789 179,058 10.38 1,737,982 177,204 10.20 Health Authority Hampshire and 1,337,457 137,252 10.26 1,361,925 135,964 9.98 1,365,836 130,680 9.57 Isle of Wight Health Authority Kent and Medway 1,264,610 131,554 10.40 1,292,216 131,629 10.19 1,287,890 126,825 9.85 Health Authority Surrey and Sussex 2,282,134 246,479 10.80 2,252,314 245,536 10.90 2,263,240 234,237 10.35 Health Authority Avon, 1,919,701 179,084 9.33 1,905,960 174,421 9.15 1,885,158 179,440 9.52 Gloucestershire and Wiltshire Health Authority South West 1,328,445 116,189 8.75 1,315,947 111,203 8.45 1,319,220 113,398 8.60 Peninsula Health Authority Dorset and 933,335 75,886 8.13 930,864 73,278 7.87 931,904 73,406 7.88 Somerset Health Authority South Yorkshire 1,668,679 199,409 11.95 1,754,364 208,916 11.91 1,745,665 199,294 11.42 Health Authority Trent Health 2,353,782 244,377 10.38 2,216,471 221,325 9.99 2,140,752 210,799 9.85 Authority Leicestershire, 1,234,083 121,345 9.83 1,286,826 132,260 10.28 1,315,549 137,967 10.49 Northamptonshire and Rutland Health Authority Shropshire and 1,219,655 119,825 9.82 1,184,740 114,229 9.64 1,167,437 111,208 9.53 Staffordshire Health Authority Birmingham and 2,883,493 401,358 13.92 2,870,204 358,639 12.50 2,770,290 342,946 12.38 the Black Country Health Authority West Midlands 1,260,635 138,983 11.02 1,246,414 143,184 11.49 1,269,339 137,679 10.85 South Health Authority 177W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 178W

2003-04 2004-05 2005-06 Total Total DNA1 Total Total DNA1 Total Total DNA1 Name appointments DNAs1 rate (%) appointments DNAs1 rate (%) appointments DNAs1 rate (%)

Norfolk, Suffolk 1,996,536 160,916 8.06 2,002,359 160,239 8.00 2,013,035 164,671 8.18 and Cambridgeshire Health Authority Bedfordshire and 1,296,989 135,521 10.45 1,245,883 125,798 10.10 1,081,193 107,533 9.95 Hertfordshire Health Authority Essex Health 1,364,951 151,523 11.10 1,368,280 146,441 10.70 1,395,923 148,564 10.64 Authority North West London 2,149,037 340,800 15.86 2,197,183 337,685 15.37 2,283,289 340,004 14.89 Health Authority North Central 2,293,075 352,954 15.39 2,299,066 355,886 15.48 2,193,021 326,217 14.88 London Health Authority North East London 1,792,325 284,800 15.89 1,843,674 295,823 16.05 1,641,602 241,539 14.71 Health Authority South East London 1,900,844 337,267 17.74 1,863,190 314,150 16.86 1,956,702 302,342 15.45 Health Authority South West London 1,529,390 181,024 11.84 1,504,258 169,096 11.24 1,572,860 182,438 11.60 Health Authority Northumberland, 1,923,616 198,342 10.31 1,787,364 200,031 11.19 1,850,735 199,931 10.80 Tyne and Wear Health Authority County Durham 1,146,065 118,169 10.31 1,163,405 119,682 10.29 1,153,650 116,477 10.10 and Tees Valley Health Authority North and East 1,324,437 136,582 10.31 1,296,312 121,244 9.35 1,413,149 124,622 8.82 Yorkshire and Northern Lincolnshire Health Authority West Yorkshire 2,247,765 276,164 12.29 2,088,621 255,823 12.25 2,069,245 250,519 12.11 Health Authority Cumbria and 1,649,700 179,911 10.91 1,653,324 180,386 10.91 1,658,259 185,828 11.21 Lancashire Health Authority Greater Manchester 3,390,296 422,950 12.48 3,354,936 397,543 11.85 3,381,724 399,284 11.81 Health Authority Cheshire and 3,034,097 358,469 11.81 3,040,240 347,864 11.44 3,101,045 353,925 11.41 Merseyside Health Authority Thames Valley 1,799,963 180,233 10.01 1,767,676 176,524 9.99 1,792,644 175,577 9.79 Health Authority Hampshire and Isle 1,417,055 132,963 9.38 1,431,536 131,096 9.16 1,448,212 126,915 8.76 of Wight Health Authority Kent and Medway 1,327,193 135,935 10.24 1,295,855 127,788 9.86 1,332,884 131,981 9.90 Health Authority Surrey and Sussex 2,271,735 231,062 10.17 2,239,026 219,446 9.80 2,092,982 192,685 9.21 Health Authority Avon, 1,909,060’ 169,324 8.87 1,929,085 167,717 8.69 1,971,550 167,987 8.52 Gloucestershire and Wiltshire Health Authority South West 1,377,801 113,663 8.25 1,336,111 105,351 7.88 1,379,454 108,089 7.84 Peninsula Health Authority Dorset and 972,990 73,155 7.52 962,359 71,212 7.40 988,784 75,994 7.69 Somerset Health Authority South Yorkshire 1,839,628 202,908 11.03 1,824,544 203,234 11.14 1,913,195 201,591 10.54 Health Authority Trent Health 2,162,248 209,555 9.69 2,195,359 204,882 9.33 2,178,703 207,928 9.54 Authority Leicestershire, 1,354,066 151,898 11.22 1,313,070 145,896 11.11 1,391,566 160,934 11.56 Northamptonshire and Rutland Health Authority Shropshire and 1,206,665 115,058 9.54 1,198,227 113,136 9.44 1,145,757 99,027 8.64 Staffordshire Health Authority Birmingham and 2,993,640 375,791 12.55 2,988,200 375,029 12.55 3,105,802 369,214 11.89 the Black Country Health Authority 179W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 180W

2003-04 2004-05 2005-06 Total Total DNA1 Total Total DNA1 Total Total DNA1 Name appointments DNAs1 rate (%) appointments DNAs1 rate (%) appointments DNAs1 rate (%)

West Midlands 1,325,598 150,216 11.33 1,287,524 140,064 10.88 1,311,013 135,049 10.30 South Health Authority

2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 DNA1 Total Total DNA1 rate Total Total DNA1 rate Total Total rate Name appointments DNAs1 (%) appointments DNAs1 (%) appointments DNAs1 (%)

North East Strategic Health 2,903,275 295,462 10.18 2,948,057 292,580 9.92 3,074,601 288,471 9.38 Authority North West Strategic Health 8,409,979 968,205 11.51 8,605,140 962,527 11.19 9,007,413 986,407 10.95 Authority Yorkshire and The Humber 5,346,782 581,081 10.87 5,425,916 574,957 10.60 5,710,126 565,988 9.91 Strategic Health Authority East Midlands Strategic 3,415,442 348,128 10.19 3,348,207 329,286 9.83 3,404,294 329,562 9.68 Health Authority West Midlands Strategic 5,421,255 599,040 11.05 5,544,773 603,280 10.88 5,958,332 614,812 10.32 Health Authority East of England Strategic 4,344,165 398,241 9.17 4,583,814 408,809 8.92 4,842,242 432,236 8.93 Health Authority London Strategic Health 9,691,898 1,321,261 13.63 9,743,787 1,310,056 13.45 10,898,171 1,621,198 14.88 Authority South East Coast Strategic 3,212,981 304,458 9.48 3,277,533 305,706 9.33 3,496,402 309,370 8.85 Health Authority South Central Strategic 3,076,958 270,688 8.80 3,180,672 275,816 8.67 3,404,079 285,297 8.38 Health Authority South West Strategic Health 4,323,455 349,571 8.09 4,465,376 357,565 8.01 4,721,866 370,897 7.85 Authority

2009-10 2010-11 Name Total appointments Total DNAs1 DNA1 rate (%) Total appointments Total DNAs1 DNA1 rate (%)

North East Strategic 3,092,031 294,782 9.53 3,204,108 309,311 9.65 Health Authority North West 9,388,901 1,014,269 10.80 9,209,954 983,085 10.67 Strategic Health Authority Yorkshire and The 6,052,951 570,581 9.43 6,206,274 575,382 9.27 H umber Strategic Health Authority East Midlands 3,345,510 316,117 9.45 3,510,888 305,311 8.70 Strategic Health Authority West Midlands 6,387,082 665,505 10.42 6,806,401 724,244 10.64 Strategic Health Authority East of England 5,158,259 456,768 8.86 5,228,043 447,737 8.56 Strategic Health Authority London Strategic 11,298,624 1,565,973 13.86 11,202,304 1,449,253 12.94 Health Authority South East Coast 3,591,928 312,924 8.71 3,822,028 316,746 8.29 Strategic Health Authority South Central 3,461,567 281,737 8.14 3,176,818 251,250 7.91 Strategic Health Authority South West Strategic 4,818,175 376,827 7.82 4,844,000 358,127 7.39 Health Authority 1 Did not attend. Source: Department of Health; Quarterly Activity Return.

Patients: Information by patient information leaflets. More broadly however, information is clearly an important part of care giving. John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for Health This is recognised within the NHS constitution which what aspects of patient care his Department requires to includes a right for people to be given information be covered by patient information leaflets. [68163] about treatments in advance and a right to information that supports people to make choices about their NHS Mr Simon Burns: United Kingdom law requires that care. all licensed medicines on the UK market are accompanied 181W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 182W

John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for Health non-emergency patient transport services and inter-hospital what involvement (a) patients and (b) the public have transfers) to such extent as the PCT considers necessary in writing and designing NHS patient information to meet all reasonable requirements of the area for leaflets. [68164] which they are legally charged with providing services.

Mr Simon Burns: It is good practice to involve patients Prescriptions and the public in the development of information products and many information producers have developed highly Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health effective ways of doing this. The Department has sponsored how many prescriptions were (a) issued and (b) not the establishment of The Information Standard scheme, collected in the NHS in each year since 1997. [68225] which awards a quality mark to organisations that can show they have robust processes for developing high Mr Simon Burns: Information on the number of quality information. Before awarding the quality mark prescriptions issued is not collected centrally. It is therefore the scheme tests, among other things, how an information not possible to indicate how many were not collected. producer works with its audience to identify and meet The only available data is for the numbers which were its needs. returned to the NHS Prescription Services for reimbursement and have hence been issued; collected Patients: Surveys and dispensed.

Mr Russell Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for Pressure Sores Health what provisions his Department has made to collect real-time patient feedback from patients during Paul Maynard: To ask the Secretary of State for their hospital stay. [68668] Health (1) what guidelines his Department has issued on minimum standards of training for nurses on tissue Mr Simon Burns: ‘Real-time’ patient feedback is a viability; [68528] general term for the use of a variety of approaches to (2) how many tissue viability nurses are employed in capturing feedback from patients and service users at each primary care trust. [68530] the point of care level—this can include hand-held devices, texting, kiosks, and comment cards. The 2011-12 Anne Milton: The content and standard of training Operating Framework for the national health service for nurses is the responsibility of the Nursing and states that systems should be in place to capture the Midwifery Council (NMC). Nurses receive training in views and experiences of patients, service users and skin care and tissue viability during their preparation carers, and this will include the collection of real-time for registration. They should keep up to date with best feedback. practice in skin care and tissue viability that is relevant Local organisations should use whichever methods to their area of practice, as part of their continuing of real-time feedback are most suitable and appropriate professional development. Practitioners have access to for their patients and populations. The information specialist tissue viability nurses who provide training as obtained can be used directly by staff to improve services well as expert advice in the care of individual patients. at or near the time care is provided. Due to organisations To reinforce the necessity for continuing learning, the collecting different data in different ways, any national NMC requires health care professionals to maintain aggregation would be meaningless. The Department competence in their field of practice as a condition of does not collect real-time feedback data centrally. their continued registration. Patients: Transport The number of tissue viability nurses is not collected centrally. Local national health service organisations are responsible for the skill mix of their work force, Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health including the number of tissue viability nurses. They are how many inter-hospital transfers have taken place in best placed to assess the health needs of their local the NHS in each year since 1997; what the average community and must have the freedom to train and distance patients have travelled was during these deploy staff in ways appropriate for local conditions. inter-hospital transfers; and what proportion of total hospital admissions these transfers represented for (a) Salt children aged under five, (b) adults aged 18 to 59, (c) adults aged 60 to 85 and (d) adults aged over 85. Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Health [68290] (1) what targets he has set for the reduction of salt consumption among the general public in each of the Mr Simon Burns: The information requested is not next three years; and if he will make a statement, collected centrally by the Department. The Department [68137] does collect data on ambulance response times in accordance with the national response time targets and (2) what recent discussions he has had with food these are published on an annual basis in the statistical industry representatives on the amount of salt in their bulletin, ‘Ambulance services, England’. These documents products; what response he has received; and if he will are available on the Information for health and social make a statement; [68138] care website at: (3) what steps he is (a) taking and (b) plans to take www.ic.nhs.uk/statistics-and-data-collections/audits-and- to ensure that salt reduction is prioritised among the performance/ambulance outcomes of the UN Non-Communicable Diseases Primary care trusts (PCTs) are responsible for High Level Meeting in September 2011; and if he will commissioning ambulance services (which could include make a statement. [68144] 183W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 184W

Anne Milton: Work to reduce salt in food is being Adults’ services taken forward under the Public Health Responsibility Deal. Ministers and officials have been talking to a A3 Total service strategy (lines A1 to A2) range of representatives from the manufacturing, retailing, catering and supply sectors. The response has been very B Older people (aged 65 or over) including older mentally ill positive and to date 55 companies have pledged to meet B1 Assessment and care management the Responsibility Deal salt reduction targets for 2012 B2.1 Nursing care placements with many more considering how they might contribute B2.2 Residential care placements to this work. B2.3 Nursing and residential care placements total (lines B2.1 In 2003, the Scientific Advisory Committee on Nutrition + B2.2) recommended that the average adult population salt B4 Supported and other accommodation intake should be reduced to no more than 6 grammes B5 Home care per day, and less for children. The salt reduction targets B6 Day care/day services agreed by the Food Network of the Responsibility Deal B7 Fairer charging—community services and to be met by 2012 will give a total salt reduction of B8 Direct payments nearly 1 gramme per person per day compared to the B9 Equipment and adaptations levels in food in 2007. B10 Meals We recognise that reducing salt intake in the population B11 Other services to older people is a key intervention to decrease the risk of high blood B12 Total older people excluding supporting people (lines B1 pressure and cardiovascular disease. We have supported +B2.1+B2.2+B4+B7+B8+B9+B10+B11) its inclusion as a priority global action to prevent B13 Supporting people (SP) non-communicable diseases in the forthcoming outcomes B14 Total older people including supporting people (lines B11 document for the UN Non-Communicable Diseases + B12) High Level Meeting in September 2011. E Adults aged under 65 with a physical disability Selenium E1 Assessment and care management E2.1 Nursing care placements Mr Streeter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health E2.2 Residential care placements what assessment his Department has made of the E2.3 Nursing and residential care placements total (lines E2.1 potential effect of selenium supplementation on the + E2.2) incidence of prostate, lung and colorectal cancers. E4 Supported and other accommodation [68032] E5 Home care E6 Day care/day services Paul Burstow: The Department has not assessed the E7 Fairer charging—community services potential effect of selenium supplementation on the E8 Direct payments incidence of prostate, lung and colorectal cancers. E9 Equipment and adaptations In May this year a review was published that had E10 Meals looked at over 50 studies involving more than one E11 Other services to adults with a physical disability million people to see whether taking selenium supplements E12 Total adults with a physical disability, aged 18 to 64, offered any protective benefit from cancer. The review, excluding supporting people (lines E1 + E2.1 + E2.2 + E4 conducted by a team of researchers from across Europe, + E7 + E8 + E9 + E10 + E11) concluded that there was not enough evidence to support E13 Supporting people (SP) the suggestion that taking selenium supplements is an E14 Total adults with a physical disability, aged 18 to 64, effective way for healthy people to protect themselves including supporting people (lines E12 + E13) against cancer. F Adults aged under 65 with learning disabilities Social Services: Finance F1 Assessment and care management F2.1 Nursing care placements Tom Blenkinsop: To ask the Secretary of State for F2.2 Residential care placements Health under what budget headings he expects his F2.3 Nursing and residential care placements total (lines F2.1 social care budget to be spent in each year of the + F2.2) comprehensive spending review period. [68033] F4 Supported and other accommodation F5 Home care Paul Burstow: Expenditure on adult social care is F6 Day care/day services collected by the Information Centre for health and F7 Fairer charging—community services social care, in the Personal Social Services Expenditure return. The data are recorded under the headings in the F8 Direct payments following table. Local authorities are responsible for F9 Equipment and adaptations allocating their budgets and we do not, therefore, set F10 Meals out projections for spend on adult social care. F11 Other services to adults with learning disabilities F12 Total adults with learning disabilities, aged 18 to 64, Adults’ services excluding supporting people (lines F1 + F2.1 + F2.2 + F4 + F7 + F8 + F9 + F10 + F11) A Service strategy: Adults’ services F13 Supporting people (SP) A1 Strategic management F14 Total adults with learning disabilities, aged 18 to 64, A2 Complaints procedures including supporting people (lines F12 + F13) 185W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 186W

participated in the latest campaign suggests that the Adults’ services campaign has helped them to fill vacancies. The purpose of the campaigns was to raise awareness G Adults aged under 65 with mental health needs of the range of rewarding work that is available in the G1 Assessment and care management social care sector and to encourage people to think G2.1 Nursing care placements about a job in social care. G2.2 Residential care placements Department of Health expenditure on the national social care recruitment G2.3 Nursing and residential care placements total (lines G2.1 £ million + G2.2) G4 Supported and other accommodation 1997-98 0 G5 Home care 1998-99 0 G6 Day care/day services 1999-2000 0 G7 Fairer charging—community services 2000-01 0 2001-02 0.83 G8 Direct payments 2002-03 1.34 G9 Equipment and adaptations 2003-04 4.62 G10 Meals 2004-05 1.80 G11 Other services to adults with mental health needs 2005-06 2.42 G12 Total adults with mental health needs, aged 18 to 64, 2006-07 2.31 excluding supporting people (lines G1 + G2.1 + G2.2 + G4+G7+G8+G9+G10+G11) 2007-08 2.22 G13 Supporting people (SP) 2008-09 2.03 G14 Total adults with mental health needs, aged 18 to 64, 2009-10 4.10 including supporting people (lines G12 + G13) 2010-11 0 Notes: 1. Advertising spend is defined as covering only media spend (inclusive of H Asylum seekers agency commissions but excluding production costs, Central Office of Information H1 Assessment and care management commission and VAT). 2. All figures here are rounded to the nearest £10,000. H2 Lone adults Strokes H3 Total asylum seekers (lines H1 to H2) Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Health J Other adult services what steps he has (a) taken and (b) plans to take to J1 Assessment and care management reduce the number of strokes; and if he will make a J2 HIV/AIDS statement. [68139] J3 Substance abuse (addictions) J4 Other adult services Mr Simon Burns: We are aiming to reduce premature J5 Total other adult services excluding supporting people mortality from stroke in a number of ways. (lines J1 to J4) J6 Supporting people The NHS Health Check programme assesses people J7 Total other adult services including supporting people aged between 40 and 74 for their risk of heart disease, (lines J5 + J6) stroke, diabetes and kidney disease and helps them to reduce or manage that risk through individually tailored lifestyle advice and support so they stay well for longer. K Total adult social services Phased implementation began in April 2009 and this K1 Total PSS excluding supporting people (lines A3 + B12 + E12+ F12 + G12 + H3405) Government is committed to the continuation of the K2 Total supporting people (lines B13 + E13 + F13 + G13 + programme. At full roll-out, the programme could prevent J6) at least 1,600 heart attacks and strokes a year. K3 Total PSS including supporting people (lines A3 + B14 + Implementation of the National Stroke Strategy and E14+F14+G14+H3+J7) the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence Quality Standard for stroke provides the NHS with Social Services: Recruitment evidence based characteristics of a good stroke service that have and will continue to improve stroke care resulting in better outcomes for patients in terms of Dr Poulter: To ask the Secretary of State for Health prevention and treatment. Progress on stroke care in how much his Department spent on social care England is measured through the National Sentinel recruitment campaigns in each year since 1997-98; and Stroke Audit. how many social carers have been recruited in each Another wave of the Act FAST public awareness year since 1997-98. [68217] campaign is being planned for the autumn. This aims to help the public recognise the signs and symptoms of a Paul Burstow: The Department’s expenditure on the stroke so that stroke patients get to hospital faster and National Social Care Recruitment Campaign is set out receive quicker treatment, and so save lives. in the following table. The NHS Improvement Programme is leading work Information is not held centrally on how many people on raising awareness of the role of atrial fibrillation were recruited as a result of the campaigns. As there are (AF) in stroke in primary and secondary care. For so many different employers, and no single application example, it is promoting opportunistic pulse checks in process, it is very difficult to track how many people primary care, such as at flu clinics, to detect AF earlier have found work as a result of the campaign. Anecdotal in older people so that it can be treated and so reduce feedback from some of the social care employers who their risk of stroke. 187W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 188W

Tobacco: Vending Machines The Government believe this legislation is compliant with European Union law. Both the High Court and the Jason McCartney: To ask the Secretary of State for Court of Appeal have upheld this view. Health (1) whether the prohibition on tobacco sales The Government is not intending to pay compensation from vending machines from October 2011 includes to vending machine companies. We believe the regulations, machines which are placed under a counter or which were made in March 2010, are a proportionate otherwise away from public view and usage; [68240] means of achieving important public health policy aims. (2) what legal advice his Department has sought on Sinclair Collis and the members of the National the prohibition of tobacco sales from vending Association of Cigarette Machine Operators, who between machines from October 2011 and compliance with EU them, own the majority of vending machines in England, regulations; [68241] are both well aware of the commencement date. A (3) will provide compensation to cigarette vending national communication campaign will confirm the position machine companies to cover the costs of removing before October. their machine stock in order to comply with the legislation prohibiting the sale of tobacco from vending machines coming into force in October 2011; Tuberculosis [68242] (4) what notification his Department has given to Tracey Crouch: To ask the Secretary of State for cigarette vending machine companies of a change in Health how many (a) children and (b) adults were the law concerning their trade coming into effect in diagnosed with tuberculosis in (i) West Kent primary October 2011. [68243] care trust area, (ii) Medway primary care trust area, (iii) Kent and (iv) England in each of the last 10 years. Anne Milton: The prohibition of tobacco sales from [68518] vending machines will come into force, in England, on 1 October 2011. This legislation only applies to vending Anne Milton: The information requested is shown in machines used by the public to buy tobacco products. the following table.

Children and adults diagnosed with tuberculosis in West Kent primary care trust (PCT) area, Medway PCT area, Kent and England, three-year average number of cases, 1999-2009 Medway PCT West Kent PCT Kent England Children Children Children Children 0-16 Adults 17+ 0-16 Adults 17+ 0-16 Adults 17+ 0-16 Adults 17+ All cases

1999-2001 <5 18 <5 22 <5 65 475 5,474 5,954 2000-02 <5 15 <5 21 <5 63 496 5,826 6,326 2001-03 <5 18 <5 21 <5 72 497 6,019 6,517 2002-04 <5 13 <5 25 <5 76 484 6,269 6,753 2003-05 <5 13 <5 29 <5 77 491 6,616 7,108 2004-06 <5 12 <5 34 <5 83 513 6,949 7,463 2005-07 <5 15 <5 38 <5 95 536 7,142 7,679 2006-08 <5 19 <5 47 <5 118 555 7,207 7,763 2007-09 <5 20 <5 53 5 127 560 7,391 7,951 Notes: 1. The latest year for which data are currently available is 2009. 2. Three -year average numbers have been provided as the annual numbers per PCT are small and may vary year on year just by chance. 3. Exact figures are not provided where the number of cases was less than five due to a risk of deductive disclosure of a patient’s identity. 4. All cases include those with an unknown age, so numbers in adults and children may not add up to the total. 5. Numbers of cases in Kent are defined as those residing in one of the three PCTs in Kent (Eastern and Coastal Kent, Medway and West Kent). Source: Health Protection Agency

ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE effectiveness of the Carbon Emission Reduction Target. [68087] British Sky Broadcasting Gregory Barker: A full assessment of the effectiveness of the Carbon Emissions Reduction Target (CERT) Luciana Berger: To ask the Secretary of State for should only be made after the scheme ends in December Energy and Climate Change how much his 2012. However, an independent evaluation of how the Department has spent on subscriptions to Sky TV scheme operates and customer experiences has been since May 2010. [67561] carried out and is informing the development of the future energy company obligation. This report will be Gregory Barker: The Department of Energy and published in autumn 2011. Climate Change has not spent anything on subscriptions to Sky TV since May 2010. Luciana Berger: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change whether the Government Carbon Emissions plans to purchase offset credits to meet the second carbon budget. [68723] Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State Charles Hendry: A limit of 55 million tonnes of for Energy and Climate Change if he will assess the carbon dioxide equivalent was set at the end of June for 189W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 190W the second carbon budget period, for sectors outside the Carbon Sequestration: Employment EU Emissions Trading System, purely on a contingency basis, this figure being consistent with what is permitted Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State under the EU framework. Our latest emissions projections for Energy and Climate Change what consideration he indicate that we do not expect there to be a need to has given to commissioning an independent assessment purchase offset credits to meet the currently legislated of the potential number of people that could be second carbon budget level. employed by the carbon capture and storage industry in the UK up to 2050. [67944] Luciana Berger: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change if he will publish the Charles Hendry: Analysis commissioned by DECC correspondence between the Government and the and published in March 2011 shows that Carbon Capture Committee on Climate Change since March 2011 on and Storage (CCS) represents a major economic the use of offset credits to meet the second carbon opportunity to the UK because of both domestic and budget. [68726] export market potential. 70,000 to 100,000 jobs could be sustained by 2030 by Carbon Abatement Technologies, Charles Hendry: Correspondence between the including CCS. Government and the Committee on Climate Change on The UK is well placed to exploit the market opportunities the use of offset credits in the second carbon budget and CCS represents new business opportunities. Analysis period has been published. The advice to Government previously commissioned by DECC highlighted areas from the CCC was published on the CCC’s website1 of UK strength in procurement and manufacturing, and the Government’s response, in a letter from the engineering design, project management, construction, Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate financial, legal and commissioning. Change, my hon. Friend the Member for Bexhill and Battle (Gregory Barker), to Lord Turner, was published Climate Change: EU Action on the DECC website2 on 7 June. Note 1 Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for http://hmccc.s3.amazonaws.com/ Energy and Climate Change what discussions he has Letter_Lord%20Turner_Chris%20Huhne%20MP_220311.pdf had with the European Commission on proposals for a Note 2 reprioritisation of the EU budget to support the EU’s http://www.decc.gov.uk/assets/decc/What%20we%20do/ energy and climate change priorities. [68114] A%20low%20carbon%20UK/Carbon%20budgets/1776-letter- barker-turner-carbonbudget-0611.pdf Gregory Barker: The Government’s representations to the European Commission on funding from the EU Luciana Berger: To ask the Secretary of State for in support of the EU’s energy and climate change Energy and Climate Change whether he has had priorities, and indeed on all funding from the EU discussions on the projections made by (a) Cambridge budget, in both the annual budget and Multi-Annual Econometrics and (b) his Department on the effects of Financial Framework processes is led by the Chancellor the recession on levels of emissions over the first of the Exchequer, my right hon. Friend the Member for budget period. [68727] Tatton (Mr Osborne), supported by relevant Government Departments. Charles Hendry: It is important for the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change, my right hon. While controlling the size of the budget is the UK’s Friend the Member for Eastleigh (Chris Huhne) to have main priority, the Government believe that funding for the best understanding possible of likely future emissions climate change should make up a larger share of an EU trends. For this reason the Secretary of State often budget that increases, at most, by no more than inflation discusses the assumptions and drivers regarding emissions in the next Multi-Annual Financial Framework, and projections with officials and other stakeholders. However, that climate change objectives should be mainstreamed there are no records of any meetings that have been set across all relevant headings, ensuring that the EU’s up specifically to discuss the impact of the recession on investments are compatible with and contribute to the Cambridge Econometrics’ projections or DECC projections. EU’s cost-effective transition to a low carbon economy. The Government have made this case to the Commission Carbon Emissions: EU Action and will continue to do so as negotiations on the next Multi-Annual Financial Framework progress. Luciana Berger: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change what discussions he has Climate Change: Taiwan had on steps to promote support for an increase in the EU emissions reduction target to 30 per cent. by 2020. Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy [68725] and Climate Change what his policy is on participation by Taiwan in discussions on the UN Framework Gregory Barker: We remain committed to achieving Convention on Climate Change. [68031] EU agreement on a move to a 30% target and I have had a number of meetings with my ministerial counterparts Gregory Barker: The Government support Taiwan’s from EU member states to try to build support to make practical participation in international organisations this possible. In March this year, climate Ministers from where this does not require statehood. Taiwan is currently Portugal, Spain and Sweden, Denmark, Greece and represented at the United Nations Framework Convention Germany joined the UK in signing a ministerial article on Climate Change meetings by a non-governmental making the economic case for a move to a 30% target. organisation, the Industrial Technology Research Institute. 191W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 192W

Departmental Air Travel needed. We will decide on the type of capacity mechanism around the turn of the year, and intend to legislate for John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy the mechanism in the second session. Our current analysis and Climate Change on what occasions he has flown indicates that a capacity mechanism is likely to be on official business (a) by budget airline and (b) in needed from around the end of this decade. economy class in the last 12 months. [67922] The electricity market reforms are about creating appropriate incentives to support investment, while Gregory Barker: The Secretary of State for Energy improving competition to ensure that the costs to consumers and Climate Change, my right hon. Friend the Member are minimised. The EMR measures will work alongside for Eastleigh (Chris Huhne), has made eight return other market reform proposals, for example from Ofgem, flights and a single in-country transfer flight in economy designed to improve competition in the market. We class within the last 12 months. expect improvements to competition to follow the 2014 All travel is undertaken in line with the Ministerial EMR implementation date. Code. Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for Departmental Consultants Energy and Climate Change what steps he is taking to ensure that the retrofitting of the public sector estate Austin Mitchell: To ask the Secretary of State for with energy efficiency measures form part of his plans Energy and Climate Change how many senior civil for electricity market reform. [68110] servants in his Department at each grade had worked for PricewaterhouseCoopers, Ernst & Young, Deloitte Charles Hendry: The aim of electricity market reform or KPMG immediately prior to taking up their appointment is to ensure the investment we need to meet our security in each of the last four years; what consultancy agreements of supply and decarbonisation targets at least cost. his Department had with those firms in each such year; Energy efficiency could have a role to play in meeting and how many consultants from those firms have advised our targets in a cost-effective way, and we will assess his Department in each such year. [68955] whether the existing package of energy efficiency measures is providing adequate encouragement for efficiency Gregory Barker: No senior civil servants at permanent improvements in electricity usage, to determine whether secretary, director general or director level have worked there might be a need for appropriate additional measures. for PricewaterhouseCoopers, Ernst and Young,Deloitte The retrofitting of the public sector estate with energy or KPMG immediately prior to taking up their appointment efficiency measures will not form a specific part of the in the last four years. electricity market reform programme. We encourage all The information on deputy directors is not available public bodies to invest in energy efficiency, which enables due to the disproportionate cost entailed in obtaining them to reduce costs and CO2 emissions. We have the information. already taken decisive action to reduce central Government DECC does not hold central records of contracts. emissions by 13.8% (exceeding our original target of a Therefore the information requested on contracts is not 10% reduction). We are now being even more ambitious available due to the disproportionate cost entailed in with a 25% target by the end of this Parliament. obtaining the information. Luciana Berger: To ask the Secretary of State for Departmental Correspondence Energy and Climate Change what discussions he has had with electricity company executives to discuss new Austin Mitchell: To ask the Secretary of State for market arrangements using long-term contracts in Energy and Climate Change how many letters his preparation for delivery of the fourth carbon budget. Department received from hon. Members in June 2011. [68724] [68758] Charles Hendry: A list of meetings that the Secretary Gregory Barker: In June 2011, the Department of of State for Energy and Climate Change, my right hon. Energy and Climate Change received 866 letters from Friend the Member for Eastleigh (Chris Huhne) has hon. Members. held with stakeholders, including electricity company executives, are published quarterly and can be found on Electricity the DECC website at: http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/accesstoinform/ Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State registers/registers.aspx for Energy and Climate Change by what date he expects his plans for electricity market reform to have Luciana Berger: To ask the Secretary of State for delivered increased (a) security of supply and (b) Energy and Climate Change how many meetings competition. [68086] involving officials of his Department were held in December 2010 to discuss the consultation on new Charles Hendry: The Electricity Market Reform White electricity market arrangements; and who attended Paper, available at: such meetings. [68728] http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/legislation/ white_papers/emr_wp_2011/emr_wp_2011.aspx Charles Hendry: This information is not held centrally includes a consultation on possible models for a capacity and could be provided only at disproportionate cost. mechanism to deliver increased security of supply, by DECC officials participated in a number of meetings ensuring that sufficient reliable capacity is in place when in December 2010 on the EMR consultation with 193W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 194W organisations including energy utilities, independent are code members. The operational effectiveness and generators, independent renewable generators, consumer compliance are matters for the code’s governing board. groups, Ofgem, National Grid, Green NGOs and investors. Ofgem is responsible for regulating gas and electricity supply. It is open to Ofgem to consider whether additional Energy Bill 2010-12 regulatory protection is required.

Mr Hanson: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy Mr Weir: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change what assessment he has made of and Climate Change (1) what meetings he has had with the memorandum (EN18) submitted by Which? to the representatives of major energy companies to discuss Public Bill Committee on the Energy Bill [Lords]. the issue of accurate billing since May 2010; [68247] [68788] (2) what meetings his Department and its predecessor held with representatives of major energy Gregory Barker: I welcome the contribution this detailed companies to discuss the issue of accurate billing memorandum made to the progress of the Energy Bill between May 2005 and May 2010. [68248] in Committee stage, and value Which?’s ongoing engagement in the development of the Green Deal and Charles Hendry: DECC Ministers, both past and Energy Company Obligation. My officials have had present, and officials meet with energy suppliers on a constructive meetings with Which? in the course of regular basis to discuss market issues. preparing for this autumn’s Consultation and I look The Government have confirmed that smart meters forward to our continued engagement with Which? in will be rolled out to domestic customers by 2019. Smart the lead up to and during the Consultation. meters allow remote reading of meters, and therefore enable entirely accurate billing. Energy Performance Certificates Mr Weir: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for and Climate Change (1) what estimate he has made of Energy and Climate Change what steps he plans to the monetary value of funds held by energy companies take to co-ordinate the Green Deal with the roll-out of as a result of over-estimated consumer bills in the latest energy performance certificates. [68109] period for which figures are available; [68418] (2) what assessment he has made of trends in the Gregory Barker: The existing Energy Performance monetary value of funds held by energy companies as a Certificate (EPCs) will be adapted to form the basis of result of over-estimated consumer bills. [68419] the Green Deal Assessment. The assessment starts every Green Deal customer journey. Charles Hendry: Ofgem is responsible for regulating gas and electricity supply, including customer payments. Luciana Berger: To ask the Secretary of State for In 2009, Ofgem introduced a new supply licence condition Energy and Climate Change how many meetings that came into effect in January 2010 and requires officials of his Department have had with the Secretary suppliers to ensure customers’ direct debit payments are of State for Communities and Local Government on clearly and accurately explained and are based on the steps to improve the framework surrounding energy best available information. Suppliers are also required performance certificates. [68745] to justify why they are holding onto any credit balances built up by customers. It is for Ofgem to assess whether Gregory Barker: Last year my noble Friend the suppliers comply with the licence condition and take Parliamentary Under Secretary of State and my hon. action if they do not. Friend the Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government initiated a joint examination of how the Energy Performance of Buildings Energy: British Antarctic Territory regime, covering Energy Performance Certificates (EPCs), might be improved. Both Departments have been involved Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for in regular meetings at both ministerial and official level Energy and Climate Change what expenditure his to ensure that Green Deal and EPC policies fit together. Department has undertaken on energy provision in the British Antarctic territory. [68863] Energy: Billing Charles Hendry: None. Mr Weir: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change (1) when he next plans to reassess Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for the operational effectiveness of the Energy Retail Energy and Climate Change what his policy is on Association Code of Practice for Accurate Billing; energy provision in the British Antarctic territory. [68245] [68864] (2) what assessment he has made of the level of compliance by energy companies with their obligations Charles Hendry: DECC has no involvement in the under the Energy Retail Association Code of Practice provision of energy in the British Antarctic Territory. for Accurate Billing. [68246] The British Antarctic Survey maintains a permanent year-round British presence in Antarctica at its scientific Charles Hendry: The Code of Practice for Accurate bases Rothera and Halley. The provision of energy Billing is a voluntary agreement sponsored by the Energy (including costs of procurement and transportation) to Retail Association, of which five of the big six suppliers these bases is a matter for the British Antarctic Survey. 195W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 196W

Energy: Conservation electricity and gas) is expected to save around £23 per year on their energy bill as a result of smart metering. Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State We have assumed that the annual reductions in demand for Energy and Climate Change if he will assess the will be as follows: 2.8% for electricity (credit and pre- effectiveness of the Community Energy Saving payment meter); 2% for gas credit and 0.5% for gas Programme. [68088] pre-payment meter. The likely sustained reductions in energy consumption are based on the combined impact Gregory Barker: A full assessment of the effectiveness of the installation of smart meters, in-home displays of the Community Energy Saving Programme (CESP) and our consumer engagement strategy . Our energy can only be made after the scheme ends in December savings assumptions are based on reviews of available 2012. However, an independent evaluation of how the international evidence and further informed by trials scheme has operated to date has been carried out and is carried out in Great Britain. informing the development of the future energy company obligation. A report on this CESP evaluation will be Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State published in autumn 2011. for Energy and Climate Change what assessment his Department has made of the effectiveness of ways of Luciana Berger: To ask the Secretary of State for communicating with consumers other than via the Energy and Climate Change what discussions his in-home display. [69181] Department has had with the Department for Communities and Local Government on (a) the Charles Hendry: The Government published their Greater Manchester Housing Retrofit Programme, (b) Response to the Prospectus Consultation1 on smart steps to encourage local authorities to become involved metering on 30 March 2011. This stated that suppliers in delivering energy efficiency measures in their areas should provide domestic consumers with an in-home and (c) the extension of display energy certificates to display that meets the relevant technical specifications, commercial buildings. [68746] but that in addition we would expect to see the development of options for consumers to access smart metering Gregory Barker: The Department has liaised closely information in other ways, for instance through the with the Department for Communities and Local internet, mobile phones or locally via a personal computer. Government on all of these issues. There is also potential to communicate energy consumption (a) We will learn what we can from the Greater Manchester information and advice on paper, on or with energy bills Housing Retrofit Programme to help inform the Green Deal; or via a separate communication. (b) We have discussed a number of issues around local authority support for energy efficiency improvements in their area, including The Department assessed the findings of the final potential Green Deal models. We will work closely with DCLG report of the Energy Demand Research Project (EDRP), on new guidance for the Home Energy Conservation Act; co-funded by DECC and published on 23 June. This (c) We have discussed the case for rolling out display energy provided evidence specific to the GB context on the certificates to commercial buildings and whether this could be effectiveness of ways of communicating with consumers. done without placing undue burdens on business. The report concludes that the combination of smart meters and Real Time Displays consistently resulted in Luciana Berger: To ask the Secretary of State for energy savings of around 3% but with some higher and Energy and Climate Change what meetings he has had lower savings, depending on fuel, customer group and with (a) large retailers and private sector Green Deal period. The EDRP found that savings from generic participants and (b) energy companies to discuss written advice and historic feedback resulted in a reduction partnerships under the Energy Company Obligation. in consumption of up to 5%. [68749] The Department also considered a number of international studies have considered the effectiveness Gregory Barker: The Department has had a number of ways of communicating with consumers other than of meetings with energy companies, large retailers and a via the IHD. A recent review of 57 feedback studies in range of other potential Green Deal participants. We nine different countries by the American Council for an have explored how we can design a framework that is Energy Efficient Economy2 found that on average feedback sufficiently flexible to enable partnerships to develop. reduces energy consumption between 4-12%, with higher The UK Business Council for Sustainable Energy (9%) savings associated with real-time feedback. (UKBCSE), representing energy companies, is working 1 http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/consultations/ with DECC to develop an approach whereby all Green smart_mtr_imp/smart_mtr_imp.aspx Deal providers can access ECO subsidy without necessarily 2 Erhardt-Martinez, Donnelly, Laitner, Advanced Metering Initiatives needing formal partnerships with energy companies. and Residential Feedback Programs: A Meta-Review for Household Electricity-Saving Opportunities, June 2010. Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change what assessment his Energy: Greater London Department has made of the likely sustained reductions in energy consumption by households following the installation of in-home displays. [69180] Rushanara Ali: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change how many applications for Charles Hendry: The Impact Assessment in the smart Community Energy Saving Programme funding his meter rollout for the domestic sector (published 30 March Department has received from (a) the London 2011) estimates total consumer benefits of £4.6 billion. borough of Tower Hamlets and (b) each other By 2020 the average domestic customer (with both London borough. [68684] 197W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 198W

Gregory Barker: The Community Energy Saving This analysis informed the Government’s conclusions Programme (CESP) is funded by the obligated energy on the minimum functional requirements for smart companies, who develop scheme proposals, with the meters, which were set out in the March 2011 Response involvement of the relevant local authority, for submission to the Prospectus consultation. to the programme administrator, Ofgem. As of 23 August 2011, CESP schemes in the following Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State London boroughs had been submitted to Ofgem for for Energy and Climate Change what estimate his approval: Department has made of the number of individuals required to deliver the smart meter roll-out programme Number of schemes submitted per between 2014 and 2019. [69174] London borough borough

Tower Hamlets 2 Charles Hendry: In the March 2011 response to the Barking and Dagenham 2 Prospectus Consultation, the Government announced Ealing 1 their intention to bring forward a proposal to obligate Hackney 1 energy suppliers to complete the roll-out in 2019. It is Hammersmith and Fulham 1 expected that most consumers will receive a smart meter Haringey 1 between 2014 and 2019. Havering 3 The Government will also require larger suppliers to Lambeth 1 submit and maintain plans that are realistically capable Lewisham 1 of achieving their roll-out obligations. Energy suppliers Newham 1 are currently developing their individual roll-out strategies Southwark 1 which will include detailed work force planning. At the Waltham Forest 1 peak of mass roll-out a significantly larger work force Westminster 1 will be required than current levels. Recent research by Total 17 The National Skills Academy (August 2011) estimates that in the peak years of 2016 and 2017, around 7,500-8,000 The 20 remaining London boroughs currently have meter installers will be employed compared to existing no CESP schemes submitted to Ofgem for approval. work force levels of approximately 3,200 people. Energy: Housing Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change what estimate his Chris Williamson: To ask the Secretary of State for Department has made of the cost per household of the Energy and Climate Change pursuant to the answer of smart meter roll-out programme. [69175] 7 July 2011, Official Report, column 1371W, on energy: housing, when he plans to publish the progress reports Charles Hendry: The Government’s impact assessment under the Home Energy Conservation Act 1995 for (a) estimates that the roll-out of smart meters to the domestic 2007-08 and (b) 2008-09. [68722] sector will deliver a net benefit of almost £5.1 billion, leading to an average bill saving of £23 per household in Gregory Barker: I refer the hon. Member to the 2020 and £42 in 2030. This reflects an estimated total previous answer I gave him on 7 July: we will publish a gross cost of the programme of £10.8 billion, offset by HECA progress report after the launch of the Green more than £15.8 billion in gross benefits. These benefits Deal. This progress report will give consideration to include the direct savings to households as they are able retrospective data as well as future requirements under to use energy more efficiently and the cost savings HECA. achieved by energy suppliers which are expected to be passed through to consumers. Energy: Meters Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change whether his for Energy and Climate Change what assessment his Department has investigated the use of mobile Department has made of the (a) cost and (b) telephone tariff and billing structures as best practice effectiveness of existing smart meter technology in for the introduction of smart meter tariff and billing. preparing its smart meter roll-out programme. [69173] [69176]

Charles Hendry: The Smart metering implementation Charles Hendry: The Government expect the rollout programme is establishing common minimum specifications of smart meters to open up the energy market to new for the GB market which will ensure smart meters products and services, including more innovative energy installed during mass roll-out are interoperable and tariffs. While we do not currently expect to mandate deliver the functionalities required to realise the tariff structures, we believe it is important that all programme’s benefits. These benefits include providing consumers are able to take advantage of the benefits of consumers with near real-time information to help them smart metering. The programme will monitor and review understand and manage their energy use, smoother and the progress of the smart metering rollout, including faster switching between suppliers, and removing the the consumer experience of the process, and evaluate need for onsite meter readings. the evolving costs and benefits. The costs and benefits of a range of different features have been considered and analysed, supported by extensive Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State consultation with industry, including product for Energy and Climate Change whether the £23 in manufacturers, consumer groups and other stakeholders. savings per household per year expected by the smart 199W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 200W metering programme has been included in the (credit or prepayment) without the expense of exchanging estimated increases in consumer energy bills set out in the meter and will reduce the current higher than average the Electricity Market Reform White Paper. [69177] costs associated with providing services to pre-payment customers. It is expected that new and more flexible Charles Hendry: The impact of EMR on household payment options will be introduced, such as top-ups electricity bills is presented relative to a baseline that over the phone, via the internet, or at automated teller includes all the energy and climate change policies that machines (ATMs), supporting a wider pay-as-you-go are already in place or have been planned to a sufficient market. The pre-payment capability should also enable degree of detail (i.e. with quantified estimates of costs suppliers to better manage customer debt, resulting in and benefits). cost savings that can be passed on to all consumers. The baseline bill includes the impact of the environmental 1 Domestic suppliers’ social obligations: 2010 annual report policies such as the Existing and Extended RO, Carbon (re/78/l I). Price Floor, Feed-in-Tariffs, EU Emissions Trading System Energy: National Policy Statements and EU Minimum Efficiency Standards for Energy using Products. In addition, the baseline bill for the average household includes the impact of the GB rollout Joan Walley: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy of smart meters, Community Energy Saving Programme, and Climate Change for what reasons he has not Carbon Emissions Reduction Target (CERT), CERT included the Committee on Climate Change’s 2030 Extension, a Future Supplier Obligation following CERT, carbon emissions reduction target in the Energy Better Billing, and Security measures. National Policy Statement (EN-1). [67502] In the baseline, average household electricity bills rise Charles Hendry: We did not include the Committee’s by approximately £200 by 2030. This increase is driven advice on the 2030 carbon emissions reduction target by increases in wholesale prices, network costs, as well because 2030 is halfway through the fifth carbon budget as environmental policies. (2028-32) which has not yet been set. The fifth carbon With EMR policies in place, the increase in average budget will be set by June 2016, as required by the household electricity bills could be limited to £160. .

Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State Environment Protection: Taxation for Energy and Climate Change what steps his Department is taking to engage consumers in the smart Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy meter roll-out programme. [69178] and Climate Change if he will estimate the level of subsidy to energy companies created by the Charles Hendry: The Government published their introduction of a carbon floor price in (a) 2013-14 and Response to the Prospectus Consultation1 on smart (b) 2014-15. [66359] metering on 30 March 2011. This stated that the Government will develop a strategy for promoting consumer Justine Greening: I have been asked to reply. engagement and that there is a strong case for some The carbon price floor announced in the Budget is elements to be carried out centrally or on a co-ordinated intended to create economic incentives to invest in basis. The Department is now working to develop the low-carbon electricity generation. It does not provide a strategy and a plan for its implementation, working subsidy to energy companies. closely with industry, consumer groups and other stakeholders. Gas Fired Power Stations 1 www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/consultations/ smart_mtr_imp/smart_mtr_imp.aspx David Morris: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change what the generating Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State capacity is of combined cycle gas turbine plants for Energy and Climate Change what estimate he has approved by his Department since 5 May 2010. [66990] made of the proportion of the population which uses pre-payment and pay-as-you-go meters to pay for Charles Hendry: Between 5 May 2010 and 31 August, energy supplies; and for what reasons such capabilities the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change, are being built into smart meters for the smart meter my right hon. Friend the Member for Eastleigh (Chris roll-out programme. [69179] Huhne), granted consent under s.36 of the Electricity Act 1989 to five combined cycle gas turbine plants with Charles Hendry: In the March 2011 Response to the a total maximum generating capacity of 5670 megawatts Prospectus consultation, the Government set out the (MW). functional requirements for smart meters. The costs and benefits of a range of different features have been Green Deal Scheme considered and analysed, supported by extensive consultation with industry, consumer groups and other Alison Seabeck: To ask the Secretary of State for stakeholders. The functional requirements have been Energy and Climate Change whether his Department developed to ensure the benefits of the programme are has considered the potential effects on the impartiality delivered. of Green Deal assessors of sales commissions and In 2010 Ofgem1 estimated that around 15% of electricity other incentives. [67659] customers and 12% of gas customers paid through a pre-payment meter. The remote functionality of smart Gregory Barker: The impartiality of the assessment meters will allow switching between payment methods will be protected through the application of a standardised 201W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 202W methodology and quality assurance of assessors’ work market review, which should put pressure on prices. In by UKAS-accredited certification bodies. Assessors working addition, we are taking steps through the Energy Bill to for Green Deal providers will also be subject to compliance confer on Ofgem a power to sharpen commercial incentives with relevant requirements around disclosure of on gas shippers to prepare for low probability/high information, such as commercial affiliations. impact gas supply disruptions. This is intended to improve the resilience of our gas supply infrastructure, and Luciana Berger: To ask the Secretary of State for should reduce the impact of such events on prices. Energy and Climate Change what meetings his Department has had with representatives of the Nuclear Power Stations: Decommissioning commercial sector on the application of the Green Deal to the non-domestic sector. [68743] Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change what recent assessment Gregory Barker: Ministers and officials have had he has made of decommissioning arrangements for extensive engagement with commercial sector representatives currently operating nuclear power stations. [67061] on the Green Deal including an industry round table meeting which I chaired, several individual meetings Charles Hendry: Currently operating power stations and a regular forum co-ordinated by the British Property include the 15 reactors at eight nuclear power stations Federation. which EDF Energy operates in the UK following its acquisition of British Energy, and the two reactors Mass Media operated by the Nuclear Decommissioning Authority (NDA). Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Detailed plans have been developed by the NDA for Energy and Climate Change with reference to (a) the decommissioning Oldbury and Wylfa, incorporating publication by the Prime Minister of his meetings with lessons learnt from decommissioning the earlier Magnox media executives and (b) paragraph 74 of the Third stations. These plans have recently been reviewed by Report of the Procedure Committee, Session 2008-09, DECC and Shareholder Executive to define the programme on written parliamentary questions, HC 952, if he will of work for this spending review period. publish a list of each meeting the Rt. hon. Member for Doncaster North held with newspaper and media EDF Energy is responsible for decommissioning its proprietors, editors and senior media executives, whilst own stations, but the NDA is charged with reviewing he was Secretary of State for Energy and Climate and approving EDF’s plans, and approving payments Change, disclosing the same information as if a request for decommissioning by the Nuclear Liabilities Fund. had been submitted under the provisions of the These plans are now integrated with the Magnox Freedom of Information Act 2000 provisions and using equivalents, with the expectation that this approach will the same criteria and methodology as the Prime produce future cost savings. Minister in compiling his list. [69018] A comprehensive report on decommissioning arrangements for operating nuclear power stations was Gregory Barker: It is not the responsibility of the included as part of the Government’s contribution to current Government to account for the previous the 3rd Report to the European Council and European Government. Parliament on the Management of Financial Resources for the Decommissioning of Nuclear Installations, Spent Motor Vehicles Fuel and Radioactive Waste.

Luciana Berger: To ask the Secretary of State for Nuclear Power Stations: Safety Energy and Climate Change whether (a) he and (b) other Ministers in his Department have met Martin Horwood: To ask the Secretary of State for representatives of (i) BMW, (ii) Chevrolet, (iii) Ford, Energy and Climate Change what account he expects (iv) Peugeot, (v) Vauxhall and (vi) Volkswagen to the EU nuclear stress testing process to take of Dr discuss vehicle efficiency improvements since May Weightman’s final report on lessons learnt for the UK 2010. [68633] nuclear industry from events at Japan’s Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear site in March 2011; and if he will make Gregory Barker: Meetings of DECC Ministers with a statement. [68204] external organisations are published quarterly on the Department’s website. Charles Hendry: The EU nuclear stress test initiative arises from conclusions of the European Council on 25 Natural Gas: Business March 2011 and cover all 143 nuclear powers plants across the EU, whereas Dr Weightman’s report is in Gavin Williamson: To ask the Secretary of State for response to a commission from the Secretary of State Energy and Climate Change what recent discussions he for Energy and Climate Change on the implications for has had with energy suppliers on reducing the cost of the UK nuclear industry from the Fukushima incident gas to businesses. [68070] in March 2011. Dr Weightman’s interim report of May 2011 contains 26 recommendations and it is his expectation Charles Hendry: DECC Ministers and officials meet that UK nuclear plant operators will take appropriate with energy suppliers on a regular basis to discuss account of his recommendations in their stress tests. market issues. Dr Weightman will address progress on the UK stress Ofgem is tackling barriers to effective competition tests in his final report to the Secretary of State in the such as low wholesale market liquidity in its retail autumn. The Office for Nuclear Regulation will provide 203W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 204W a separate report on the final UK results to the European NDA expenditure, excluding Commission, in line with its timetable, in December commercial which will contribute to EU wide conclusions on the initiative. 2005-06 1,596 2006-07 1,699 Martin Horwood: To ask the Secretary of State for 2007-08 1,779 Energy and Climate Change what steps he is taking to 2008-09 1,909 ensure that the nuclear stress tests agreed by the 2009-10 2,162 European Nuclear Safety Regulators Group are 2010-11 2,069 adhered to in full; and if he will make a statement. 2011-12 2,441 [68205] 2012-13 2,449 2013-14 2,527 Charles Hendry: EU member states agreed that stress 2014-15 2,405 tests will be undertaken at all 143 nuclear power plants in the EU from June onwards. Plant operators are Prior to 2005 nuclear legacy issues which are now the undertaking the stress tests and will report their findings responsibility of the NDA were owned by British Nuclear to the national nuclear regulators for assessment and Fuels and the UK Atomic Energy Authority. Details of verification in two stages, a progress report by 15 August their expenditure on decommissioning are set out in and a final report by 31 October 2011. National regulators their published annual reports and accounts. will then produce a national report on progress by 15 The decommissioning of current military nuclear September and the final findings by 31 December 2011. facilities is the responsibility of the Ministry of Defence Both reports will be submitted to the European (MOD), and covers a wide range of activities, from Commission. submarine reactors and nuclear warheads to infrastructure. The UK national regulator, the Office of Nuclear Details of budgeted and actual costs for military nuclear Regulation (ONR), has written to, and had meetings decommissioning, are not held centrally, and could be with, all UK nuclear power plant operators setting out provided only at disproportionate cost. Furthermore, what is expected of them in relation to applying the the MOD does not routinely publish figures for anticipated criteria of the stress test. This has been done as part of annual project expenditure, as to do so would prejudice ONR’s regulatory function to ensure that operators are commercial interests and jeopardise the negotiating position complying with the UK’s regulatory framework which of the Department. requires operators to achieve, so far as is reasonably practicable, continuous improvements in safety. Applying the lessons learned from events at Fukushima is covered Power Stations: Carbon Emissions by this general legal duty on operators. Should the ONR consider that operators are not Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State meeting their statutory responsibilities at any time, it for Energy and Climate Change if he will bring forward has the necessary enforcement powers to achieve proposals to regulate the carbon dioxide emissions compliance. from coal-fired power stations; and if he will make a statement. [68085]

Nuclear Power: Decommissioning Gregory Barker: As part of the electricity market reform package to decarbonise electricity generation Martin Horwood: To ask the Secretary of State for published on 12 July 2011, the Government have proposed Energy and Climate Change how much was (a) an Emissions Performance Standard which will provide budgeted for and (b) spent on (i) military and (ii) civil a clear regulatory signal on the amount of carbon new nuclear decommissioning in (A) each of the last 10 fossil-fuel power stations can emit. years and (B) 2011-12; and how much has been budgeted for expenditure in each category in each year Mr Marcus Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for of the comprehensive spending review period. [68203] Energy and Climate Change what assessment he has made of the effect on efforts to achieve carbon Charles Hendry: The Nuclear Decommissioning reduction targets of the use of coal-fired power Authority, established in 2005, is responsible for tackling stations. [69185] the UK’s historic civil and military legacy. It is funded by a combination of direct Government grant, and Gregory Barker: Coal provides a valuable role in the commercial income. The following table sets out what UK’s energy mix, providing diversity and security of the NDA has spent since its formation on completing supply. We cannot, however, sustain investment in new, its core mission, excluding commercial operations, alongside wholly unabated coal if we are to meet our carbon its projected spending for each year of the next spending targets. Fossil fuels with Carbon Capture and Storage review period. Due to the integration of many of civil (CCS) can play a vital role in our future energy mix, and military historic legacy facilities, it is not possible to helping to balance baseload nuclear and intermittent separate expenditure on civil and military decommissioning. renewables. CCS is the only technology that can significantly The NDA’s mission is to decommission the whole nuclear reduce C02 emissions from fossil fuel power stations—by legacy estate as efficiently as possible, and the most as much as 90%. That is why the Government are effective approach is to treat it as a whole—irrespective committed to providing public funding for four CCS of origin. demonstration plants. 205W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 206W

Solar Power: British Overseas Territories (3) what consideration his Department has given to commissioning an independent assessment of the Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for potential number of people that could be employed by Energy and Climate Change how much his the renewable energy industry in the UK up to 2050. Department has spent on investment in solar power in [67945] British Overseas Territories in each of the past five years. [68865] Charles Hendry: We are aware of a number of assessments by external bodies on the future employment Gregory Barker: DECC has not spent any money on potential of the renewable energy sector, including: solar power in British Overseas Territories in any of the Wave and tidal last five years. The Carbon Trust’s “Focus For Success” report estimates that the wave sector alone could create around 16,000 direct jobs by Solar Power: Satellites 2040, with 25% supporting UK exports. Offshore wind Laura Sandys: To ask the Secretary of State for The Carbon Trust estimates that the offshore wind sector Energy and Climate Change whether the Government could employ up to 66,000 people in the UK by 2020 with a has (a) commissioned or (b) evaluated any research possibility of up to 230,000 by 20501. into the practicalities of transmitting solar energy by Onshore wind satellite from space to Earth. [69184] RenewableUK estimates in “Working for a Green Britain Vol 2: Future employment and skills in the UK wind and marine Gregory Barker: We are not aware of any such research industries” that under a medium scenario there could be around undertaken by the Government. The 2011 Budget includes 10,300 direct and 6,100 indirect jobs in the onshore wind sector in a £10 million provision for the UK Space Agency to 2021. support the development of space technology in the Biomass energy UK through a competition process which could include A number of studies have been conducted to consider the technologies for space-based solar power generation economic potential in the bioenergy sector. For example, a 2007 and supply to ground. study to quantify employment from biomass power plants2 showed Thorium: Research that power only bioenergy systems typically create 1.27 man years of employment per GWh electricity produced. A recent study for the Forestry Commission in June 2010 found that the woodfuel Paul Flynn: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy sector alone could contribute £l billion to the UK economy by and Climate Change pursuant to the answer to the hon. 2020 and support 15,300 jobs3. Member for Tewkesbury of 12 July 2011, Official Given these and other independent reports, I have no Report, columns 295-6W, on thorium, what the cost plans to commission further evidence but will keep this was of the study by the National Nuclear Laboratory; under review. The Government fully recognise the whether the study was put out for competitive tender; employment opportunities that the growth of renewable and in what form the findings will be made publicly energy can create. available. [66937] 1 Source: http://www.carbontrust.co.uk/news/news/press-centre/ 2011/Pages/offshore-wind-gg.aspx Charles Hendry: The cost of the study by the National 2 “Quantification of employment from biomass power plants” Nuclear Laboratory on Advanced Reactor Designs and (Thornley et al, November 2007). Fuel Cycle options, referred to in the answer to the hon. 3 “The economic value of the woodfuel industry to the UK Member for Tewkesbury (Mr Robertson), is £30,000. economy by 2020” (Centre for Economics and Business Research, As is routine for projects of this value that require the 2010). resources of unique, specialist institutions, it was let as a single tender- action following scrutiny via DECC’s Utilities: Competition business approvals process. The findings will be made available to the public in Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy the form of the peer-reviewed reports that NNL will and Climate Change what steps his Department is supply, as well as being summarised in a more accessible taking in relation to geographical monopolies by utility form to non-experts via DECCs routine communications companies. [66394] and correspondence. Charles Hendry: Energy networks operators, as with Tidal Power: Manpower most utility network operators, are natural monopolies, and are therefore closely regulated to protect consumers. Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State In this sector the energy regulator. Ofgem, regulates the for Energy and Climate Change (1) pursuant to the companies through five-year price control periods which answer of 14 July 2011, Official Report, column 493W, mimic the effects of competition by curbing their on tidal power: manpower, if he will commission an expenditure and incentivising them to be efficient and independent assessment of the potential number of to innovate technically. people that could be employed by the wave and tidal Price controls are set for the 14 companies that run sector in the UK up to 2050; [67927] the regional electricity networks, the four companies (2) whether he has considered the merits of that operate the energy transmission networks and the commissioning an independent assessment of the four companies that own the local gas distribution potential number of people that could be employed by networks. the (a) offshore and (b) onshore wind industry in the Competition does exist with regard to constructing UK up to 2050; [67942] new connections between the consumer and the local 207W Written Answers5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Written Answers 208W electricity network, which is an important element of through the Offshore Wind Developers’ Forum, which work undertaken by network operators. Customers of brings together Government and industry to help remove network operators have the option to have some of the barriers to the development of the sector and to maximise connection work, referred to as contestable work, carried the economic benefit to the UK. The most recent meeting out by a third party connection provider. of the forum took place on 21 June. The Department has also held a number of meetings with companies Wind Power considering investing in new manufacturing facilities to serve the offshore wind sector, details of which are Luciana Berger: To ask the Secretary of State for commercially confidential. Energy and Climate Change what meetings his Department has held with representatives of (a) Gamesa, (b) Siemens and (c) Vestas on planned turbine manufacture in the UK. [68616]

Charles Hendry: I regularly meet with the developers [Continued in Column 209W] responsible for the construction of offshore wind farms 1MC Ministerial Corrections5 SEPTEMBER 2011 Ministerial Corrections 2MC

The only improvement currently programmed on this Ministerial Correction section is adjacent to the A46 at Teal Park. The site between Whisby Roundabout and Hykeham Roundabout Monday 5 September 2011 is being jointly developed by Lincoln city council and Lincolnshire county council. It will necessitate improvements to the A46 to accommodate the anticipated increase in traffic. The development is due for completion TRANSPORT in July 2012. A46: Lincoln To make precise the extent of the improvements to the road, the answer should have read: Karl McCartney: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what plans his Department has for Mike Penning: Within the Lincoln constituency, the improvements to the A46 (a) within and (b) bordering Highways Agency is responsible for the stretch of the Lincoln constituency. [64080] A46 between the A1434 Hykeham Roundabout and the A57 Carholme Roundabout. Beyond Carholme [Official Report, 5 July 2011, Vol. 530, c. 1163W.] Roundabout, the A46 is the responsibility of Lincolnshire Letter of correction from Mike Penning: county council. An error has been identified in the written answer The only improvement currently programmed on this given to the hon. Member for Lincoln (Karl McCartney) section is adjacent to the A46 at Teal Park. The site, on 5 July 2011. immediately east of the A46, south of the Whisby road The full answer given was as follows: junction, is being jointly developed by Lincoln city council and Lincolnshire county council. It will necessitate Mike Penning: Within the Lincoln constituency, the improvements to the A46 from a point north of the Highways Agency is responsible for the stretch of the existing roundabout with Lincoln road and Doddington A46 between the A1434 Hykeham Roundabout and road, to a point south of the existing junction with the A57 Carholme Roundabout. Beyond Carholme Whisby road to accommodate the anticipated increase Roundabout, the A46 is the responsibility of Lincolnshire in traffic. The development is due for completion in county council. July 2012.

ORAL ANSWERS

Monday 5 September 2011

Col. No. Col. No. COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 1 COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT— Business Rates (Local Retention)...... 1 continued Empty Homes...... 9 Local Government Expenditure...... 5 Enterprise Zones...... 6 New Homes ...... 15 High Streets (Planning)...... 4 Planning Reform...... 11 Housing (Armed Forces Personnel) ...... 8 Planning Reform...... 13 Housing (Leeds)...... 12 Topical Questions ...... 16 Housing Supply ...... 16 Transparency in Local Government...... 6 Licensing Areas...... 8 Unauthorised Development...... 16 Local Authority Service Provision...... 14 WRITTEN MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

Monday 5 September 2011

Col. No. Col. No. COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 2WS HOME DEPARTMENT...... 8WS DCLG (Summer Recess Work) ...... 2WS EU-Australia PNR Agreement ...... 8WS Fire Service College ...... 2WS INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT...... 9WS DEFENCE...... 6WS Famine (Horn of Africa)...... 9WS Chinook Contract...... 6WS JUSTICE...... 11WS DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER ...... 7WS Victims of Crime Directive ...... 11WS Boundary Commission for Wales...... 7WS TREASURY ...... 1WS EDUCATION...... 7WS HM Revenue and Customs (Repeal of the Scott Use of Force (Schools)...... 7WS Undertaking) ...... 1WS PETITIONS

Monday 5 September 2011

Col. No. Col. No. COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 1P EDUCATION...... 4P Development (Higham Ferrers, McMillan Daycare Nursery (Hull)...... 4P Northamptonshire)...... 1P Development on the Riverside Gardens, Erith ...... 2P Licensing of Mobile Home Parks ...... 3P WRITTEN ANSWERS

Monday 5 September 2011

Col. No. Col. No. ATTORNEY-GENERAL ...... 58W COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT— Departmental Consultants...... 58W continued Departmental Correspondence ...... 59W Departmental Stationery...... 11W Departmental Telephone Services...... 59W Departmental Training ...... 12W Prosecutions...... 59W Enterprise Zones...... 12W Fire Services: Conditions of Employment...... 12W COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 6W Fire Services: Expenditure ...... 12W Affordable Housing...... 7W Fire Services: Manpower...... 14W Carbon Emissions...... 8W Fire Services: Pensions ...... 14W Departmental Apprentices ...... 8W Gifts and Endowments...... 14W Departmental Billing ...... 8W Government Procurement Card ...... 15W Departmental Correspondence ...... 9W Green Belt...... 7W Departmental Official Cars...... 9W Homelessness: Expenditure...... 16W Departmental Official Hospitality...... 9W Homelessness: Liverpool...... 16W Departmental Pay ...... 10W Homelessness: Young People ...... 17W Departmental Photographs...... 11W Land Use ...... 17W Departmental Procurement...... 11W Local Government Finance ...... 18W Col. No. Col. No. COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT— DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER—continued continued National Security Council...... 6W Local Government: Manpower...... 18W Non-domestic Rates...... 18W ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE ...... 187W Non-domestic Rates: Empty Property...... 22W British Sky Broadcasting...... 187W Overcrowding...... 23W Carbon Emissions...... 187W Planning...... 23W Carbon Emissions: EU Action...... 189W Planning Permission: Urban Areas ...... 23W Carbon Sequestration: Employment ...... 190W Private Rented Housing ...... 23W Climate Change: EU Action ...... 190W Private Rented Housing: Standards ...... 24W Climate Change: Taiwan ...... 190W Regional Planning and Development...... 24W Departmental Air Travel ...... 191W Social Rented Housing...... 24W Departmental Consultants...... 191W Social Rented Housing: Ex-servicemen ...... 24W Departmental Correspondence ...... 191W Social Rented Housing: Peterborough ...... 25W Electricity...... 191W Surplus Homes...... 6W Energy Bill 2010-12...... 193W Travellers: Planning Permission...... 25W Energy: Billing ...... 193W Energy: British Antarctic Territory ...... 194W DEFENCE...... 75W Energy: Conservation...... 195W 3 Commando Brigade ...... 75W Energy: Greater London ...... 196W Afghanistan: Peacekeeping Operations ...... 75W Energy: Housing ...... 197W Air Force: Military Bases ...... 76W Energy: Meters...... 197W Aircraft Carriers ...... 76W Energy: National Policy Statements ...... 200W Armed Forces: Alcoholic Drinks ...... 76W Energy Performance Certificates...... 193W Armed Forces: Deployment ...... 77W Environment Protection: Taxation ...... 200W Armed Forces: Food ...... 77W Gas Fired Power Stations...... 200W Armed Forces: Joint Strike Fighter Aircraft...... 77W Green Deal Scheme...... 200W Armed Forces: Suicide ...... 78W Mass Media ...... 201W BAE Systems ...... 78W Motor Vehicles...... 201W Cadet Forces: Finance...... 79W Natural Gas: Business...... 201W Chief of the Defence Staff: Travel...... 79W Nuclear Power: Decommissioning ...... 203W Courts Martial...... 79W Nuclear Power Stations: Decommissioning...... 202W Cyprus: Military Bases...... 80W Nuclear Power Stations: Safety ...... 202W Departmental Assets...... 80W Power Stations: Carbon Emissions...... 204W Departmental Buildings...... 81W Solar Power: British Overseas Territories ...... 205W Departmental Consultants...... 82W Solar Power: Satellites...... 205W Departmental Contracts ...... 81W Thorium: Research...... 205W Departmental Correspondence ...... 82W Tidal Power: Manpower...... 205W Departmental Land ...... 82W Utilities: Competition ...... 206W Departmental Procurement...... 83W Wind Power ...... 207W Departmental Public Expenditure...... 83W ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL Departmental Security ...... 83W AFFAIRS...... 39W Diamond Jubilee 2012: Medals ...... 84W Air Pollution...... 39W European Fighter Aircraft ...... 84W Animal Welfare...... 39W European Union: Medals...... 85W Animals: Disease Control ...... 39W Ex-servicemen: Prisoners ...... 85W Badgers ...... 40W Germany: Armed Forces...... 85W Biofuels...... 45W Joint Strike Fighter Aircraft...... 86W Boats...... 45W Libya: Armed Conflict...... 86W Bovine Tuberculosis: Disease Control ...... 46W Libya: Military Aircrafts...... 86W Brown-Tailed Moth Caterpillar ...... 47W Libya: UN Resolutions ...... 87W Coastal Erosion ...... 48W Military Aircraft: Training ...... 87W Cormorants ...... 48W Military Bases: Crime ...... 87W Departmental Correspondence ...... 49W Military Bases: Edinburgh ...... 88W Departmental Food ...... 49W Military Bases: Kirknewton ...... 89W Departmental Labour Turnover ...... 50W Military Bases: Property Transfer ...... 92W Departmental Redundancy...... 51W National Security Council...... 92W Farming Regulation Task Force ...... 53W Nuclear Submarines...... 92W Fisheries...... 53W Property Transfer...... 92W Fisheries: Foreign Nationals ...... 54W Queen Elizabeth Aircraft Carriers...... 93W Fisheries: Safety...... 54W RAF Buchan...... 93W Food: Procurement ...... 55W RAF Leuchars ...... 93W LIFE...... 55W Type 26 Frigates...... 94W Livestock: Transport...... 55W Unmanned Air Vehicles ...... 94W Members: Correspondence ...... 56W War Memorials ...... 94W Milk: Prices...... 56W Warships ...... 95W Nature Conservation: Voluntary Work...... 57W Warships: Helicopters ...... 95W Plants: Diseases ...... 57W Warships: Weapons ...... 95W Third Sector...... 58W Trees: Disease Control ...... 58W DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER ...... 6W Departmental Lost Property...... 6W FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE .... 60W Departmental Responsibilities ...... 6W Bahrain: Historic Buildings ...... 60W Col. No. Col. No. FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE— HEALTH—continued continued Health Services: Overseas Visitors ...... 156W Bosnia and Herzegovina: War Crimes...... 60W Hospital Beds...... 157W British Nationals Abroad: Death...... 61W Hospital Wards: Gender ...... 157W Burma: Political Prisoners ...... 61W Hospitals: Admissions ...... 157W Departmental Redundancy...... 62W Hospitals: Information...... 159W Departmental Telephone Services ...... 62W Hospitals: Waiting Lists...... 160W Departmental Visits Abroad ...... 63W Hotels ...... 161W Environment Protection: International James Cook University Hospital: Ambulance Cooperation...... 63W Services ...... 161W European External Action Service ...... 64W Learning Disability ...... 161W Food: Prices ...... 64W Mass Media ...... 162W Greece: Shipping...... 65W Midwives: Manpower...... 162W Human Rights: Business ...... 65W Milk: Contamination ...... 163W Iran: Higher Education...... 65W NHS: Competition...... 164W Jerusalem: Religious Freedom...... 66W NHS: Drugs...... 166W Libya: British Nationals Abroad...... 66W NHS: Expenditure ...... 168W Libya: Females...... 66W NHS: Manpower ...... 167W Libya: UN Resolutions ...... 67W NHS: Standards...... 169W Members: Correspondence ...... 67W NHS Walk-in Centres ...... 163W Middle East: Armed Conflict...... 67W Nursing Home Properties ...... 169W Palestinians: British Nationals Abroad ...... 68W Obesity...... 169W Palestinians: Detainees...... 68W Organs: Donors ...... 171W Palestinians: United Nations...... 69W Osteoporosis: Health Services ...... 171W Religious Freedom ...... 69W Out-patients: Attendance...... 174W Saudi Arabia: Armed Forces...... 70W Patients: Information ...... 179W South Sudan ...... 70W Patients: Surveys ...... 181W Sri Lanka ...... 71W Patients: Transport...... 181W Sri Lanka: Arrests...... 71W Prescriptions ...... 182W Surveillance...... 71W Pressure Sores ...... 182W Taiwan: EU External Relations...... 72W Salt...... 182W Telephone Answering Machines: Surveillance...... 72W Selenium ...... 183W Western Sahara: Politics and Government ...... 72W Social Services: Finance ...... 183W Zimbabwe: Politics and Government ...... 72W Social Services: Recruitment ...... 185W Strokes ...... 186W Tobacco: Vending Machines ...... 187W HEALTH...... 132W Tuberculosis...... 188W Access to Work Programme ...... 132W Accident and Emergency Departments ...... 133W INDEPENDENT PARLIAMENTARY Alzheimer’s Disease: Health Services...... 133W STANDARDS AUTHORITY COMMITTEE...... 1W Ambulance Services: Rural Areas ...... 133W Members: Allowances ...... 1W Anaemia ...... 133W Blood: Contamination ...... 134W INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT...... 27W Cancer ...... 134W Afghanistan: Health Services...... 27W Cancer Act 1939...... 135W Afghanistan: Maternity Services...... 28W Cancer: Drugs...... 135W Africa: Agriculture...... 28W Care Homes ...... 136W Africa: Education ...... 29W Care Quality Commission...... 136W British Sky Broadcasting ...... 29W Cystic Fibrosis: Nurses ...... 137W Departmental Air Travel...... 29W Departmental Advertising...... 138W Departmental Carbon Emissions...... 29W Departmental Billing ...... 139W Departmental Dismissal ...... 30W Departmental Communication ...... 140W Departmental Responsibilities ...... 30W Departmental Internet ...... 141W Developing Countries: Agriculture ...... 30W Departmental Manpower...... 142W Developing Countries: Education...... 30W Departmental Marketing ...... 142W Developing Countries: Females ...... 31W Departmental Mobile Phones ...... 142W Ethiopia: Health Services ...... 32W Departmental Official Cars...... 144W Liberia: Health Services...... 33W Departmental Pay ...... 144W Libya: Armed Conflict...... 33W Departmental Public Expenditure...... 145W Maldives: Overseas Aid ...... 33W Departmental Rail Travel...... 146W Maputo Declaration ...... 34W Departmental Stationery...... 145W National Security Council ...... 34W Departmental Training ...... 147W Overseas Aid...... 35W Diseases: Health Services ...... 147W Sierra Leone: Education ...... 35W Doctors: Communication Skills ...... 149W Sierra Leone: Health Services...... 35W Drugs: Health Education ...... 149W South Sudan: Poverty ...... 36W Drugs: Young People ...... 150W Sub-Saharan Africa: Agriculture ...... 36W Epilepsy: Older People ...... 150W Sub-Saharan Africa: Sanitation...... 37W Fluoride: Drinking Water ...... 151W Sustainable Development: International General Practitioners ...... 151W Cooperation...... 37W Health Professions: Manpower ...... 152W Health Professions: Pay...... 153W LEADER OF THE HOUSE ...... 2W Health Services: Foreign Nationals ...... 155W Departmental Consultants...... 2W Col. No. Col. No. LEADER OF THE HOUSE—continued WORK AND PENSIONS—continued Departmental Correspondence ...... 2W Carbon Emissions...... 96W Departmental Official Hospitality...... 2W Child Support Agency: Correspondence...... 96W Departmental Publicity...... 2W Children: Maintenance ...... 97W Departmental Redundancy ...... 2W Community Care Grants...... 98W Departmental Training ...... 3W Departmental Air Travel ...... 98W Members: Pensions ...... 3W Departmental Consultants...... 99W Third Sector...... 3W Departmental Correspondence ...... 100W Departmental Manpower...... 100W NORTHERN IRELAND ...... 27W Departmental Procurement...... 101W British Sky Broadcasting...... 27W Departmental Redundancy ...... 102W Departmental Consultants...... 27W Departmental Telephone Services ...... 103W Departmental Correspondence ...... 27W Employment and Support Allowance: Appeals...... 106W Employment and Support Allowance: Bexley ...... 107W PRIME MINISTER ...... 3W Employment Schemes ...... 107W Cabinet: Chequers...... 3W Employment Services...... 108W Departmental Air Travel ...... 3W Foreign Workers...... 108W Departmental Correspondence ...... 4W Housing Benefit ...... 108W Departmental Responsibilities ...... 4W Housing Benefit: Greater London...... 110W Human Rights: China...... 4W Industrial Health and Safety...... 111W Malaysia: Elections ...... 5W Jobcentre Plus: Closures...... 112W National Security Council...... 5W Jobcentre Plus: Complaints...... 114W Taxation: European Union ...... 5W Jobcentre Plus: Pay ...... 115W Third Sector...... 5W Jobcentre Plus: Standards ...... 115W Members: Correspondence ...... 115W PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMISSION ...... 27W Mortgages: Government Assistance...... 116W National Audit Office: Government Procurement Pensioners: Cost of Living ...... 116W Card...... 27W Pensions...... 117W Personal Independence Payment...... 117W SCOTLAND...... 26W Procurement...... 117W Employment ...... 26W Social Security Benefits...... 118W Phone Hacking Inquiry...... 26W Social Security Benefits: Appeals ...... 120W Social Security Benefits: British Nationals WALES...... 38W Abroad ...... 121W Broadcasting Programmes: Welsh Language ...... 38W Social Security Benefits: EU Nationals ...... 121W Social Security Benefits: Expenditure...... 124W WOMEN AND EQUALITIES...... 73W Social Security Benefits: Fraud ...... 125W Departmental Consultants...... 73W Social Security Benefits: Islington...... 126W Departmental Responsibilities ...... 73W State Retirement Pensions...... 127W Equality and Human Rights Commission: Trade Unemployment: Greater London...... 128W Unions ...... 74W Unemployment: Young People...... 129W Government Equalities Office ...... 74W Universal Credit...... 129W Third Sector...... 74W Welfare to Work: Bethnal Green ...... 130W Work Capability Assessment...... 130W WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 96W Work Capability Assessment: Appeals ...... 130W Benefits Rules ...... 96W MINISTERIAL CORRECTION

Monday 5 September 2011

Col. No. TRANSPORT ...... 1MC A46: Lincoln ...... 1MC Members who wish to have the Daily Report of the Debates forwarded to them should give notice at the Vote Office. The Bound Volumes will also be sent to Members who similarly express their desire to have them. No proofs of the Daily Reports can be supplied, nor can corrections be made in the Weekly Edition. Corrections which Members suggest for the Bound Volume should be clearly marked in the Daily Report, but not telephoned, and the copy containing the Corrections must be received at the Editor’s Room, House of Commons,

not later than Monday 12 September 2011

STRICT ADHERENCE TO THIS ARRANGEMENT GREATLY FACILITATES THE PROMPT PUBLICATION OF THE VOLUMES

Members may obtain excerpts of their Speeches from the Official Report (within one month from the date of publication), on application to the Stationery Office, c/o the Editor of the Official Report, House of Commons, from whom the terms and conditions of reprinting may be ascertained. Application forms are available at the Vote Office.

PRICES AND SUBSCRIPTION RATES DAILY PARTS Single copies: Commons, £5; Lords, £3·50. Annual subscriptions: Commons, £865; Lords, £525. WEEKLY HANSARD Single copies: Commons, £12; Lords, £6. Annual subscriptions: Commons, £440. Lords, £225. Index: Annual subscriptions: Commons, £125; Lords, £65. LORDS VOLUME INDEX obtainable on standing order only. Details available on request. BOUND VOLUMES OF DEBATES are issued periodically during the session. Single copies: Commons, £105; Lords, £40. Standing orders will be accepted. THE INDEX to each Bound Volumeof House of Commons Debates is published separately at £9·00 and can be supplied to standing order. WEEKLY INFORMATION BULLETIN compiled by the House of Commons, giving details of past and forthcoming business, the work of Committees and general information on legislation, etc. The Annual Subscription includes also automatic despatch of the Sessional Information Digest. Single copies: £1·50. Annual subscriptions: £53·50. All prices are inclusive of postage Volume 532 Monday No. 193 5 September 2011

CONTENTS

Monday 5 September 2011

List of Government and Principal Officers of the House

Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 1] [see index inside back page] Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government

Libya [Col. 23] Statement—(Prime Minister)

Terrorism Prevention and Investigation Measures Bill [Col. 50] As amended, considered; read the Third time and passed

Waste and Recycling (Spelthorne) [Col. 145] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Written Ministerial Statements [Col. 1WS]

Petitions [Col. 1P] Observations

Written Answers to Questions [Col. 1W] [see index inside back page]

Ministerial Correction [Col. 1MC]