the boisi center interviews no. 107: april 8, 2015

katharine hayhoe is the director of ’s Climate Science Center and an associate professor in the university’s Political Science Department. She spoke with Boisi Center associate director Erik Owens before her presentation on “Religion and the Roots of Denial.” owens: How did you get involved in They weren’t really on board with climate shared values actually helps us talk about climate change advocacy, especially change, but they were curious about it. I difficult issues, as opposed to people as- working on the started to realize a lot of people’s objec- suming that I’m the stereotypical atheist question? tions centered around their faith. If God tree-hugging scientist many (wrongly) is in control, how could this happen? assume us to be. hayhoe: I was always interested in do- ing policy-relevant research. Up until we owens: What, in your view, is the most moved to Texas, I was doing climate sci- important religious objection to climate ence, and I was also doing a lot of region- science? al impact studies. I was looking at what hayhoe: I think the real issue is that climate change means to the , we have confused our politics with our or the Midwest, or the city of Chicago, faith. Rather than letting our faith deter- and then I would talk to city planners or mine what we believe and what we think water managers or ecologists, people who is important, we are letting our politics needed that information to plan. dictate and even, to a certain extent, But you don’t typically ask your scientist rewrite our statements of faith. That, I what church they go to on Sunday, just as think, is the real problem. you wouldn’t ask your physician or your But if you’re talking about purely reli- accountant what faith tradition they come gious-based objections, I think the one from. It wasn’t until we moved to Texas— that rises to the top most frequently is the which we did for the traditional academ- issue of God’s sovereignty: the idea that ic reasons; with my husband being a God set this world in place, and if puny linguistics professor, we were looking for little humans are somehow changing a place together—that I got involved in I also realized that to genuinely connect something that God created, that really advocacy work. with people and to be able to share what I challenges God’s authority in the uni- I knew moving to Texas that things knew, I couldn’t be just the traditional ac- verse. were going to be different—I already ademic, where we’re trained to leave our owens: If only a fraction of the small knew that there were certain parts of the personality at the door and just give the group that denies climate change has country where people were more likely to facts. To genuinely connect with people, purely theological objections to it, does it not think climate change was real than you have to connect from your heart, not make you wonder if you should bother to others—but I didn’t know quite what from your head. I realized it’s import- talk about religion at all in this context? to expect. Within two or three months, ant to share who I am, what I believe, though, I started to get invitations to and how that affects my perspective on hayhoe: I think that religion is both speak: to a women’s group, at the Second the science, because then I can identify part of the problem and part of the solu- Baptist Church, at a senior citizens’ with people and people can identify with tion. I think that in order to talk about home. All of these people were curious. me. Establishing that common base of climate change, why it matters, why we

1 the boisi center interview: katharine hayhoe need to do something about it, we have to hayhoe: Yes, I absolutely think so. you know what? If we keep on producing connect the dots between the issue and Now, just to play the devil’s advocate for carbon dioxide, we know what’s going to what we believe. I don’t think many of a minute, obviously you and I don’t have happen. So I think we need to be careful us can even move forward on this issue the luxury of looking into all of the nu- to draw that line, because it’s being used unless we connect those dots, so it’s so ances of, say, immigration law or exactly on both sides. It’s being used by people to important to bring faith into the discus- what ISIS is doing, and what the roots are say, “you are positioning climate change sion, but not to let it be used as an excuse and what the solution is. So we have to as an alternate religion.” But it’s also to deny what God’s creation is telling us. make choices about who we’re going to being used very loosely by people who agree with and what opinions we’re going do think climate change is real who ask owens: If the resistance is political, not to side with, and therefore, in essence, others whether they “believe” in climate religious, and you help to take away the change, as if it were a religion. No won- religious objections in your conversations der it creates conflict. with these communities, can your efforts in fact influence people’s political views? owens: Some academics are weighted “There is a radical down by a worry that public engagement hayhoe: I hope so. As a Christian, I is somehow contrary to their central feel that it is a travesty for faith-based ar- difference mission. Do you see that in the climate guments to be used against an issue like science world? It seems so obvious to out- climate change. If you’re going to argue between science siders that revealing your results to the against it, you’re welcome to. Everybody’s public is crucial. But within the climate entitled to their own opinions. But call and faith. You can science community, is that a problem, in it what it is. Call it the fact that ideolog- say you do not the same way that it is for, say, scholars of ically, there are many people who don’t theology or other things? want government. Anything that implies believe in gravity, a government role in our personal lives hayhoe: We scientists are always won- is anathema to large sections of Amer- but if you jump dering, “how far can we go?” We all defi- ica. That is their opinion, and they are nitely feel comfortable saying the climate certainly entitled to have that opinion and off that cliff, is changing. We also feel comfortable to reflect that opinion in what they think you know what’s saying it’s changing because of human about climate change. But don’t cloak it activities. Now, as a community, we’re with religious-sounding language. going to happen. saying we need to do something about it. owens: Are there are non-central-gov- . . . If we keep on The National Center for Atmospheric ernment-oriented responses to climate Research this summer set up a speakers’ change that those of us of faith, as well as producing carbon bureau for climate scientists, because those without faith, can enact? people were begging for opportunities dioxide, we know to get out and talk, but they didn’t know hayhoe: I see myself as a policy how to find community groups. Within agnostic. Almost anything is better what’s going to weeks of Climate Voices getting going, than nothing. I particularly want to talk they had 200 scientists signed up, be- to people about free market solutions, happen.” cause we see all of this happening with about solutions that put money back in our own eyes. individual taxpayers’ pockets, rather than sending more money to the government, who we are going to “believe.” In that It’s as if we’re doctors or physicians of the because I know that those are solutions sense, we’re all cognitive misers; we don’t planet. It’s as if you went to the doctor that people can get on board with. have the brainpower and the bandwidth and got a scan, and the doctor saw some- thing happening in your body. You feel owens: One of the issues in the mud- to cover every single issue to the point compelled to tell the people or the person dling of political conversation about this where we know every fact. who’s affected by this. As a human, is a very loose term, “belief.” As a scien- But there is a radical difference between regardless of our faith tradition, we know tist, how do you respond to this question science and faith. Because you can say that if we see a problem, and we are silent of belief, as it’s posed? Should we try to you do not believe in gravity, but if you on that problem, it’s wrong. stop this process of describing recogni- jump off that cliff, you know what’s going tion of scientific data as something you to happen. In the same way, we can say owens: There is a certain resistance can believe in or not? we do not believe in climate change. But among some folks about science as such.

2 the boisi center interview: katharine hayhoe To the extent that this conversation is now being engaged by your group of scientists, do you feel that there’s any movement on this general issue, as opposed to the climate front? hayhoe: One of the people whose re- search I appreciate the most is Elaine Eck- lund, who’s a sociologist at Rice University. Her area of study is scientists and religion. She looks at the numbers in terms of what we scientists believe and shows how many of us believe in God, go to church, would agree with a given faith label—whether we are a Christian, or Jewish or Muslim. I think the perception that scientists are a bunch of godless atheists is not really valid, and my own experience has borne that out. about this amazing planet we live on, and The Boisi Center for Religion also that we want to make sure everybody After telling people that I was a Christian, & American Public Life knows what is going on with our planet, so which was a little nerve-wracking, I didn’t that we can make the right decisions. know what to expect from my colleagues. I 24 Quincy Road thought that a lot of them would basically owens: Have you had any struggles with Chestnut Hill, MA 02467 say, “you’ve checked your brain at the door,” the theological implications of the science www.bc.edu/boisi or “you’ve given up on your integrity as a you’ve found yourself? Have you found that 617-552-1860 [email protected] scientist.” But instead I’ve had so many col- to be challenging to your own religious leagues come up to me and share their own beliefs? boisicenter faith and their own spiritual views with @boisi_center hayhoe: I haven’t, but I was really me in a way that’s really encouraged me fortunate that I grew up with a dad who and helped me to see that we all start with was a science educator and also a lay pastor something. We come at this problem with Visit bc.edu/boisi-resources in our local church. He did a lot of the for a complete set of the Boisi a certain set of views. For many of us, it emotional wrestling in advance, so from an Center Interviews and audio, comes from our faith. For others, it doesn’t early age I grew up with this idea that when video, photographs, and come from faith but it does come from a science and faith appear to be in conflict, transcripts from our events. deep sense of what is right and what is it’s because we do not fully understand one wrong, what is moral and what is immoral. or the other or both. That’s a pretty unique I think it’s important for people to realize perspective to grow up with. that as scientists, we’re humans. Many of [end] us are doing climate science out of a con- viction that we want to understand more

3 the boisi center interview: katharine hayhoe