POW/MIA: WHERE DO WE GO FKOM HERE? Y4.F76/1:P 93/24 PDU/niA: Hhere Do Ue Go Fron Here?, . BEFORE THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON ASIA AND THE PACIFIC OF THE COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ONE HUNDRED THIRD CONGRESS SECOND SESSION FEBRUARY 10, 1994 Printed for the use of the Committee on Foreign Affairs U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 81-898 CC WASHINGTON : 1994 For sale by the U.S. Government Printing Office Superintendent of Documents, Congressional Sales Office, Washington, DC 20402 ISBN 0-16-045899-4 POW/MIA: WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE? Y4.F76/1:P 93/24 PDH/niA: Mhere Do Me Co Fron Here?, . BEFORE THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON ASIA AND THE PACIFIC OF THE COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ONE HUNDRED THIRD CONGRESS SECOND SESSION FEBRUARY 10, 1994 Printed for the use of the Committee on Foreign Affairs ^•on 6 m'-'•w* 7 ^^^^'^^^^^'l U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 81-898 CC WASHINGTON : 1994 For sale by the U.S. Government Printing Office Superintendent of Documents, Congressional Sales Office, Washington, EXT 20402 ISBN 0-16-045899-4 COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS LEE H. HAMILTON , Indiana, Chairman SAM GEJDENSON, Connecticut BENJAMIN A. OILMAN, New York TOM LANTOS, California WILLIAM F. GOODLING, Pennsylvania ROBERT G. TORRICELLI, New Jersey JAMES A. LEACH, Iowa HOWARD L. BERMAN, California TOBY ROTH, Wisconsin GARY L. ACKERMAN, New York OLYMPIA J. SNOWE, Maine HARRY JOHNSTON, Florida HENRY J. HYDE, IlHnois ELIOT L. ENGEL. New York DOUG BEREUTER, Nebraska ENI F.H. FALEOMAVAEGA, American CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH. New Jersey Samoa DAN BURTON, Indiana JAMES L. OBERSTAR, Minnesota JAN MEYERS, Kansas CHARLES E. SCHUMER, New York ELTON GALLEGLY, California MATTHEW G. MARTINEZ, California ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida ROBERT A. BORSKI, Pennsylvania CASS BALLENGER, North Carolina DONALD M. PAYNE, New Jersey DANA ROHRABACHER, California ROBERT E. ANDREWS, New Jersey DAVID A. LEVY, New York ROBERT MENENDEZ, New Jersey DONALD A. MANZULLO, Illinois SHERROD BROWN, Ohio LINCOLN DIAZ-BALART, Florida CYNTHIA A. MCKINNEY, Georgia EDWARD R. ROYCE, California MARIA CANTWELL, Washington ALCEE L. HASTINGS, Florida ERIC FINGERHUT, Ohio PETER DEUTSCH, Florida ALBERT RUSSELL WYNN, Maryland DON EDWARDS, Cahfomia FRANK McCLOSKEY, Indiana THOMAS C. SAWYER, Ohio LUIS V. GUTIERREZ, Illinois Michael H. Van Dusen, Chief of Staff Robert M. Hathaway, Professional Staff Member Mickey Harmon, Staff Associate Subcommittee on Asia and the Pacific GARY L. ACKERMAN, New York, Chairman ENI F.H. FALEOMAVAEGA, American JAMES A. LEACH, Iowa Samoa DANA ROHRABACHER, California MATTHEW G. MARTINEZ, California EDWARD R. ROYCE, California ROBERT G. TORRICELLI, New Jersey TOBY ROTH, Wisconsin SHERROD BROWN, Ohio ERIC FINGERHUT, Ohio LUIS V. GUTIERREZ. Illinois Russell J. Wilson, Staff Director James McCormick, Republican Professional Staff Member David S. Adams, Professional Staff Member Lisa C. BERKSON, Professional Staff Member (II) CONTENTS WITNESSES Page Hon. Robert G. Torricelli, a Representative in Congress from the State of New Jersey 1 William E. Legro, former Staff Investigator, Senate Select Committee on POW/MIA Affairs 10 Carol Hrdlicka, family member of Col. David L. Hrdlicka 13 Linda Gurganus, chairperson, POW/MIA Grassroots Association 18 Michael Benge, former Prisoner of War 21 Hon. James A. Leach, ranking minority member on Subcommittee on Asia and the Pacific, prepared statement 28 Winston Lord, Assistant Secretary of State for East Asia and Pacific Affairs ... 29 Edward W. Ross, Acting Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense, POW/MIA Affairs 34 Al Santoli, historian 85 Robert Necci, executive director, Advocacy and Intelligence Index for Pris- oners of War/Missing in Action 89 Patricia Plumadore, family member of UCPL Kenneth L. Plumadore, U.S. Marine Corps 89 Judy Coady Kainey, family member of Major Robert Franklin Coady, U.S. Air Force 91 Barry Toll, former U.S. Intelligence Ofticial 94 Richard F. Schultz, national legislative director, Disabled American Veterans 101 John F. Sommer, Jr., executive director, Washington Office, the American Legion 103 Anne Mills GrifBths, executive director. National League of Families of Amer- ican Prisoners and Missing in Southeast Asia 106 J. Thomas Burch, Jr., president, National Vietnam Veterans Coalition 110 John F. Terzano, president, Vietnam Veterans of America Foundation Ill APPENDIX Prepared statements: Hon. Robert G. Torricelli 121 William E. Legro 124 Carol Hrdlicka 130 Linda Gurganus 132 Michael Benge, with attachments 134 Winston Lord 152 Edward W. Ross 164 Mai. Gen. Thomas H. Needham, U.S. Army commander. Joint Task Force Full Accounting, U.S. Pacific Command 173 AlSantoh 179 Patricia Plumadore, with attachments 185 Judy Coady Rainey 220 Barry Toll 222 Richard F. Schultz 236 John F. Sommer, Jr., with attachments 239 Anne Mills Griffiths, with attachments 252 J. Thomas Burch, Jr 288 John F. Terzano 293 Questions, responses and additional material submitted by the Defense POW/ MIA Office, at the request of the Subcommittee on Asia and the Pacific 308 (III) IV Page submitted POWs in Indochina: an assessment R^rpnt rpnorts on American the POW/MIA Affairs, at the request of ^'by the Cartmenrof Defense, ^^^ Om^a-unting DS:rS^^^D:fJni%^S/il n;^ Viet^.^ ^^^ «" AcJiu^nVnefrom'theArmyCentrai remains from Southeast "^TndenUrfcaWrepatriatiL of ^^^^^^^^^J^^^^ 339 °" Memoraidum'fmm'Defense'TO^ 348 • the loss of EC-470 Baron 52 ......•- .•'•r'yr'J^i'urA^^^^Carol "'^alicka .... 351 1987-88 documents discussed during hearing by Uleeible statement^ ... ^01354 relative of Donald Gene Butch Carr, Prepared Kar?n Miller Maj. .. 356 Foundation Inc., prepared statement Mr Dan DeMa^ro, president, Freedom POW/MIA: WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE? THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 10, 1994 House of Representatives, Committee on Foreign Affairs, Subcommittee on Asia and the Pacific, Washington, DC. The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 10:15 a.m., in room 2172, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Gary L. Ackerman (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding. Mr. Ackerman. The subcommittee will come to order. We apolo- gize. We are running late. Before we do our opening statements, I would like to ask our first witness, the Honorable Robert Torricelli of New Jersey, the distinguished Chairman of the Subcommittee on the Western Hemisphere, who is our lead-off witness today. He has a hearing of his own. And we would like to not delay him any fur- ther, and ask him to testify at this time. Bob, welcome. STATEMENT OF HON. ROBERT G. TORRICELLI, A REPRESENT- ATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY Mr. Torricelli. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. And for your, and Mr. Rohrabacher's, and Mr. Gutierrez' cooperation, I ap- preciate it very much. And I commend you for holding this hearing today. President Clinton's decision last week to lift the embargo against Vietnam cannot weaken our commitment for full settlement of all outstanding cases of missing U.S. personnel. It is, I think we would all agree, as important now as it has been all years in the past to resolve questions regarding each and every one of those service- men. No issue is more important with regard to our relations with Vietnam. I hope this hearing will assist us in finding ways to continue pressure on the Vietnamese now that the embargo has been lifted. While this issue has received broad attention and justifiably so, there is another, another important issue that looms just over the horizon that must be addressed before normalization can proceed. And that is the question of compensation of American corporations and individuals who were left in 1974 with the fall of the govern- ment in Saigon with property that was expropriated, lost, and con- fiscated in violation of international law. Many of these claimants, individuals, private property of U.S. servicemen, government contractors, and corporations remained in Vietnam until the last final days at the urging of the U.S. Govern- ment. Many of their original investments were made at the request of the U.S. Government. Many certainly stayed longer than sound (1) business judgment might have dictated. They did so out of a sense of obligation to the foreign poHcy and military objectives of the United States. Now the question arises this many years later whether we will ignore their lost property, forget the seizure of their assets, and proceed to normalization, without asking that their claims be ad- dressed. In addition to a case of simple justice or protecting the interests of our citizens, there is for this committee's purposes a more pro- found foreign policy question. Sadly, the war in Vietnam will not be the last that the United States in our history. If indeed we enticed these individuals, these servicemen, these corporations, these contractors, to go and then remain in Vietnam for that period of time, and then ignore their claims, it will be far more difficult in the future to ever entice any similar interest to ever do so again. It is clear that the U.S. Grovernment will not de- fend their interests, and now ignores their claims. The Foreign Claims Settlement Commission, which was estab- lished within the Department of Justice to adjudicate the claims of U.S. nationals against foreign countries, has examined this ques- tion of Vietnam claims. Beginning in 1980, the Commission took 6 years to painstakingly receive testimony and conduct hearings to determine the validity of these claims. After hearing 534 Vietnam claims, 192 were found to meet the extensive evidence requirement of the Commission. These awards had an aggregate total principal value of $100 million. The Com- mission allows for 6 percent simple interest, bringing the current equivalent value to over $200 million for these private claimants. These claims are legally valid. They are recognized by the U.S. Government. They were adjudicated. They were established. They simply remain to be paid. Fortunately, the U.S.