7 May 1997 Ministerial Statement 1483

WEDNESDAY, 7 MAY 1997 Education (Teacher Registration) Amendment Act 1996—

Proclamation—the provisions of the Act that are not in force commence 2 May Mr SPEAKER (Hon. N. J. Turner, Nicklin) 1997, No. 103 read prayers and took the chair at 9.30 a.m. Mental Health Act 1974— Mental Health Amendment Regulation (No. 3) 1997, No. 102 PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMITTEE; CRIMINAL JUSTICE COMMITTEE Nature Conservation Act 1992— Resignation of Mr R. M. Harper; Nature Conservation (Duck and Quail Harvest Period) Notice 1997, No. 109 Resignation of Mr L. S. Woolmer Petroleum Act 1923— Mr SPEAKER: Order! Honourable members, I have to report that a vacancy Petroleum (Entry Permission—PGT exists in (a) the Public Accounts Committee Queensland Pty Limited) Notice (No. 2) 1997, No. 108 consequent upon the resignation of Mr Robert Malcolm Harper, MLA, from that committee; Podiatrists Act 1969— and (b) the Parliamentary Criminal Justice Podiatrists Amendment By-law (No. 1) Committee consequent upon the resignation 1997, No. 100 of Mr Lucas Scott Woolmer, MLA, from that Primary Industries Legislation Amendment Act committee. (No. 2) 1996— Proclamation regarding commencement of certain provisions, No. 106 Appointment of Mr L. S. Woolmer; Appointment of Mr F. E. Carroll Speech Pathologists Act 1979— Speech Pathologists Amendment By-law Mr FITZGERALD (Lockyer—Leader of (No. 1) 1997, No. 101 Government Business) (9.32 a.m.), by leave, without notice: I move— Workplace Health and Safety Act 1995— "(a) that Mr Lucas Scott Woolmer, MLA, Workplace Health and Safety Amendment Regulation (No. 1) 1997, No. 107. be appointed to the Public Accounts Committee in place of Robert Malcolm Harper, MLA, and that he MINISTERIAL STATEMENT be the chairman of that committee; Century Zinc and Hon. R. E. BORBIDGE (Surfers (b) that Mr Francis Edward Carroll, MLA, Paradise—Premier) (9.33 a.m.), by leave: I be appointed to the Parliamentary wish to advise the House of the latest Criminal Justice Committee in place developments in relation to the Century of Mr Lucas Scott Woolmer." project. Yesterday afternoon the Government Motion agreed to. received from the managing director of Century Zinc Limited, Mr Ian Williams, and the Deputy Chair of ATSIC, Mr "Sugar" Ray STATUTORY INSTRUMENTS Robinson, copies of a document which, up In accordance with the schedule until 13 February, constituted negotiated offers circulated by the Clerk to members in the from the company and the Government to the Chamber, the following documents were claimants. The documents that I received were tabled— signed by all 12 native title claimants, and Mr Education (School Curriculum P-10) Act 1996— Williams signed them on behalf of the Proclamation—the provisions of the Act company during our meeting. that are not in force commence 2 May Officers of Crown law are now reviewing 1997, immediately after the that documentation to determine that it does, commencement of the Education (Teacher in fact, accurately reflect the document which Registration) Amendment Act 1996, was the current offer at the time of the No. 104 unsuccessful conclusion of the first phase of Education (Senior Secondary School Studies) the right-to-negotiate process in February. We Act 1988— expect that to be the case, but that is being Education (Senior Secondary School checked this morning. Obviously, the Studies) Amendment By-law (No. 1) 1997, document does not constitute a settlement of No. 105 the matter in terms of the company, the 1484 Ministerial Statement 7 May 1997 claimants and the Government until the over pastoral land where mining projects were Government signs. envisaged. As a result of the meeting last night, I Labor, in fact, went even further in have called a special meeting of Cabinet prosecuting its then policy view that pastoral today—at 1.15 p.m.—at which I will leases extinguished native title. In November recommend to the Cabinet that the of 1994, it was so concerned about the issue Government reinstates its $30m element of that the then Lands Minister brought to this the package and that I be given the authority House amendments which sought to, and I to sign. But before I leave the topic this quote, "put beyond doubt" the Government's morning and report back to the House on the policy position that a pastoral lease results of Cabinet, I would just like to clarify a extinguished native title. So there were couple of points, particularly in relation to the therefore very sound reasons for the Labor background to the right-to-negotiate process Party in Government not to issue section 29 engaged by the Government. notices in relation to mining projects proposed In this place last week the member for in this State over pastoral land, and we agreed Mount Isa asked a quite ridiculous question. with that position both in Opposition and in He demanded to know why it was in relation to Government. another project that the Queensland The second leg of the member for Mount Government, unlike the Western Australian Isa's extraordinary question was to ask why we Government, had not engaged the section 29 had not issued section 29 notices in the face right-to- negotiate processes of the Native Title of the fact that the Western Australian Act. In this context, Century is, of course, a Government had done so. There is an equally crucial case in point. The Opposition, and simple answer to that riddle too, which again some equally ill-informed commentators, have does no credit to the member for Mount Isa often given gratuitous advice to the who, as Mines Minister in the previous Government that it ought to have engaged Government, ought to have known much the right-to-negotiate processes much earlier. better. The fact is that the Western Australian But the reality as opposed to the fantasy Government issued section 29 notices behind the whole question is simply this, and it because in Western Australia there are is indisputable: we did not engage the right-to- historical reservations in pastoral leases for the negotiate process earlier in relation to Century continued access of Aboriginal people. Those for the very reason that from 1 January 1994 reservations do not exist in relation to when the Native Title Act was proclaimed and Queensland pastoral leases. So the very February last year when Labor left office in simple reason for the fact that Western Queensland after its defeat in Mundingburra Australia issued section 29s while we did not, the Labor Party did not issue section 29 and the Labor Party Government that notices in this State. And for the benefit of the preceded us did not, is that Western Australia member for Mount Isa, I point out that the had no choice in the matter. The reservations reason that the Labor Party did not issue in its pastoral leases made those pastoral section 29 notices in relation to mining projects leases subject to claim from the date that the proposed over pastoral land in Queensland, Native Title Act was proclaimed and, therefore, as was the situation at Century, was its mining projects proposed over pastoral land in conviction that pastoral leases had Western Australia automatically activated the extinguished native title. right-to-negotiate process wherever there was If no native title could exist—and that was a native title claim. So that shoots down the the Labor Government's position, just as it was second leg of the argument which, as I say, ours and just as it was the Commonwealth's— has been most recently mentioned by the then, clearly, and by definition, there could be member for Mount Isa, but which has been a no basis for the right to negotiate. It simply did constant refrain from the Opposition and some not come into play! The Labor Party, as the of its mates elsewhere. From the facts it is governing party in Queensland at the time, clear that we did no more and no less than the was literally arguing before the Federal Court Labor Government did for precisely the same that very proposition—that a pastoral lease in reasons. Queensland extinguished native title. Clearly, it Ultimately, of course, this Government did would have been a nonsense for the issue section 29 notices for Century. Why was Government to be vigorously arguing before there a change of mind? Because the the court that a pastoral lease extinguished undertakings of the Labor Party both at the native title while in the same breath it Federal level and at the State level relative to recognised native title on pastoral leases via the ability of a pastoral lease to extinguish the issuance of section 29 notices for claims native title failed to deliver that protection. It 7 May 1997 Ministerial Statement 1485 fell apart! In February last year the High Court generate 12,400 new jobs and increase held that claims against pastoral leasehold employment by 0.8%. Coalition policies are land in Queensland could not automatically be the incentive for business to push ahead with rejected by the Native Title Tribunal because jobs and new enterprises being encouraged the High Court said that the issue was still alive through reduced red tape, better work force and to be decided. That, of course, opened flexibility and lower costs of business inputs. In the claim floodgates. terms of GSP growth, the increase from 2.8% Since that declaration from the High under the last Labor Budget to the forecast Court, almost one-third of Queensland quite 4% under the coalition—indeed, we hope that rapidly became subject to native title claim for that figure will be greater—will help restore the the exclusive use of the land to the exclusion State job market and up to 15,500 extra jobs of all others. Of course, a number of those should result. claims smothered the Century project and The latest ABS figures on housing everything to do with it. So it was then, and approvals and retail turnover are further only then, that the Government issued section evidence that the coalition is creating a climate 29 notices. Labor's promise to the pastoralists of economic growth in Queensland. The latest of this State had fallen over and there was ABS data on retail sales, released last Friday, simply no alternative. Pastoral leases were has confirmed the rebound in retail sales in being claimed in direct contravention of Queensland. In trend terms, retail turnover Labor's undertakings, so it was then clear that rose 1.1% over the month of March, if the project was to have any hope of going compared with national growth of 0.9%. The forward it would be via the current provisions of rebound in retail sales is evidence of the Native Title Act. consumers' growing confidence in the I do not need to outline to this House Queensland economy under the coalition. The what an extraordinary process that has been recovery in winter crop production in 1996 in for all engaged in it. If we are now close to a Queensland, following five years of drought- conclusion of that process, then I think affected production, should also provide a everybody in the House will welcome it. I will valuable boost to consumer spending. report further to the House on the results of The recovery in dwelling investment which the special Cabinet meeting and the Queensland is now experiencing should help significance of the Century project after lunch. to increase retail demand for household items in the near-term. Further data released by the ABS last week showed that housing approvals MINISTERIAL STATEMENT in Queensland jumped by 12.1%, seasonally Queensland Economy adjusted, to 3,360 in March, compared with a Hon. J. M. SHELDON (Caloundra— decline of 1.8% nationally. This is the first time Deputy Premier, Treasurer and Minister for since late 1992 that there have been three The Arts) (9.40 a.m.), by leave: I wish to inform consecutive monthly rises in the seasonally the House of the latest surveys and statistics adjusted building approvals in this State. The which show that coalition policies are blazing a figures show Labor's claims that Queensland path for Queensland business and long-term dwelling unit approvals have grown at only half the national trend is nothing more than a sustainable jobs with a resurgence in fabrication, as usual. Growth in Queensland economic growth. dwelling unit approvals are significantly higher Firstly, I refer honourable members to a than the national trend. The 1997 building front-page article in the Courier-Mail this week approvals data shows trend dwelling approvals titled "State leads way in jobs" and a further had, in fact, risen 12% since September 1996, page 3 article headed, "Queensland leads compared with 8.6% nationally. The ABS way in job creation survey". The articles state figures show that the total number of that Queensland is leading the nation in job residential approvals in Queensland rose 3.2% creation according to the ANZ Bank's in trend terms in March 1997 to 3,074. employment advertisements survey. The Nationally, the figures are up 1%. Approvals State's job advertisements rose by 18.6% to have been increasing since January 1996 and 2,424 in April, while the national rise was the monthly increase in Queensland building 16.7%. approvals rose above 3,000, on a trend basis, The coalition's pro-business approach is for the first time since April 1995. driving economic growth in this State, and this To remind honourable members of all the is proof that this growth is creating sustainable evidence of the growth in the housing industry jobs for Queenslanders. I point out that a 1% and the Queensland economy, I would point increase in our gross State product can to the following surveys and forecasts— 1486 Ministerial Statement 7 May 1997

The Indicative Planning Council for the 22,900 jobs have been created in Queensland housing industry has forecast Queensland in trend terms. Queensland generated almost dwelling commencements to rise 2.1% to one in every four new jobs created in Australia 32,000 in 1996-97, and a further 12.5% over this 13 month period, which shows that to 36,000 in 1997-98. In each year, our policies for economic growth and Queensland dwelling commencements sustainability are proving well founded. are forecast to account for more than 25% of the Australian total. MINISTERIAL STATEMENT The March quarter HIA survey found that builders in Queensland, Western Australia Outside School Hours Care and South Australia were more confident Hon. K. R. LINGARD (Beaudesert— than their counterparts in other States Minister for Families, Youth and Community about future sales and employment Care) (9.47 a.m.), by leave: I am pleased to growth in the housing industry. advise the House that $2.9m in funding for BIS Shrapnel expects Queensland Outside School Hours Care is helping to make dwelling commencements to increase by this program even better for Queensland 14.4% in 1997-98. children. On 26 March this year, I told the House that $2.7m would be released to The Westpac Housing Report for autumn upgrade outside school hours care facilities 1997 has indicated that investor interest and infrastructure. This amount has been in residential property has begun to increased to enable 184 outside school hours improve, adding further support to the care services to provide essentials such as housing sector recovery. access ramps, increased floor space and The latest September quarter 1996 suitable hot water facilities. This is part of the Queensland State Accounts indicated three-year, $1.6 billion Infrastructure that dwelling investment increased 2.7% Rejuvenation Package. in trend terms during the quarter. The Outside School Hours Care Program Dwelling investment has now contributed to is an important component of our focus on Queensland GSP growth for the past two caring for the needs of families. My quarters. The conditions are right for continued department is spending up to $6.06m improvement in dwelling construction over improving existing services for children, as well coming months. Housing affordability has as creating new programs over this three-year improved, house price growth remains period. I have already paved the way for subdued and competition in the home lending extending the age range of children eligible to market continues to apply downward pressure attend outside school hours care. In a first for on interest rates. Australia, new programs in Queensland are I also refer honourable members to an targeting 13-year-olds to 15-year-olds. Australian Financial Review article this week Previously, outside school hours care only which reports an analysis of the Australian catered for 5-year-olds to 12-year-olds. construction industry by cost consultants Davis However, growing parental and community Langdon Australia. The article reports that concern about this young teenage group there are "fresh signs of increased work flow in prompted the department to develop a special Sydney and Brisbane". It further states that in program for them in consultation with local Brisbane the Queensland Government's communities. Capital Works Program is injecting a note of As Family Services Minister, children who optimism. That is further proof that the are alone in their homes are of particular coalition Government is creating a climate of concern to me. While parents are responsible economic growth in the State, which is for their children, I believe that Governments translating to jobs for Queenslanders. and community groups can play a role in In March, Queensland recorded trend assisting parents. Outside school hours care annual employment growth of 1.4%, services provide a safe, supervised, fun compared to a figure of 1.2% nationally. environment where youngsters aged from 5 Queensland has now recorded stronger than years to 15 years can spend quality time national annual employment growth in each of before and after school and during vacation the 11 months. Queensland's annual periods while their parents work, study or take employment growth in March was exceeded part in community activities. only by Western Australia, which was 3.1%. Currently, approximately 25,000 children In summary, since the coalition attend more than 400 outside school hours Government assumed office in February 1996, care services across Queensland. We are 7 May 1997 Ministerial Statement 1487 leading the way in Australia in enhancing for use as fuel oil and the remainder sold availability, range and quality of services for as coal oil or as untreated fuel in children during school holidays and before and brickworks, cement kilns or sugar mills; after school. Queensland is unique in in Queensland over the past five years providing upgrading funds. The approval and the volume of used oil collected has allocation of $2.9m follows the $426,000 I increased dramatically from about 12 approved last year to help services to provide million litres to 25 million litres; telephones, sinks, food preparation areas, refrigerators, first aid kits, hot water, toilets, this is because of development of a alterations to indoor areas and storage demineralisation process resulting in an facilities. Other initiatives also aimed at helping improvement in the quality of fuels children include— derived from used oil which opened new markets; and an 8% increase last year in funds for the 147 vacation services which cater for the company has acquired the Australian more than 7,000 youngsters; licensing rights to construct used-oil the provision of more than $400,000 per refineries using a relatively new interline year for the Playground and Recreation technology. Association of Queensland; and The company has asked the Federal the distribution of a parents' guide to Treasurer— outside school hours care to help them "Considering the time necessary to choose services to meet their needs. effect improvements to the Interline Partnerships between this Government and a Process which would enable the base oil wide range of organisations help to share the recovered to meet international effort and responsibility of meeting the standards, Transpacific Industries vacation care and before and after school care respectfully requests exemption from needs of Queensland families with children. excise on that base oil which is blended into automotive diesel fuel. We believe that given such MINISTERIAL STATEMENT exemption, on a similar basis to that Relief of Excise Duty for Re-refined applied to Southern Pacific Petroleum Use of Oil and Central Pacific Minerals' shale oil Hon. B. G. LITTLEPROUD (Western project at Gladstone, Transpacific Downs—Minister for Environment) (9.50 a.m.), Industries could develop a viable national by leave: Recently, I met with a deputation used oil strategy that would meet from a Queensland-based company, Australia's needs well into the next Transpacific Industries Pty Ltd, who briefed me century." on a submission they have made to the The company proposes that two and up Federal Treasurer, the Honourable Peter to four plants costing $10m each could be Costello, seeking relief of excise duty payable built. Three would be capable of processing a on base lubricating oil produced from waste oil total of 90 million litres annually. I am by the interline re-refining process when confident that one of these could be built in blended into automotive diesel fuel. Queensland. The issue of used oil is one which this This proposal seems to me to be worthy Government is continuing to address in of the strongest consideration by the Federal consultation with the oil industry and other Treasurer in helping deal with a significant relevant groups. It is, of course, much more national environmental problem. I will be than a State issue and very much of national raising the issue at the next meeting of the importance. The company makes the following Commonwealth and State Ministers in the points: forum of the Australian and New Zealand 518 million litres of lubricants was sold in Environment and Conservation Council. Australia in 1995, but only 125.5 million litres was recovered, and none of this was re-refined; MINISTERIAL STATEMENT this recovery rate of less than 25% Cypress Pine Industry compares with a 60% recovery rate in Hon. H. W. T. HOBBS (Warrego— Europe; Minister for Natural Resources) (9.53 a.m.), by about 20 million litres of the amount leave: In this House on 25 March 1997, the recovered in Australia was demineralised member for Maryborough raised concerns 1488 Ministerial Statement 7 May 1997 about the future of the cypress pine sawmilling industry. DPI Forestry also supported this industry in light of a review of cypress pine option. The policy options paper goes through management on leasehold land. I wish to the issues in some detail and proposes a outline for the benefit of the House some number of mechanisms to improve forest aspects of that review which considers issues management. Assigning timber management of great importance to the cypress pine timber responsibilities and returns is suggested as a industry and leaseholders of Crown land in way of improving timber management and Queensland's cypress pine belt. providing benefits to both the lessee and the Government. As the honourable member indicated to the House, a policy options paper titled A The concept is based on the Landcare Review of Cypress Pine Management on philosophy of local community involvement in Leasehold Land was released for four and a management for local benefit. The financial half months public consideration in August returns to lessees have the potential to 1996. The release of the options paper provide an incentive to lessees to undertake resulted from concerns by both the cypress sustainable timber management activities pine sawmilling industry and land-holders likely to protect the timber resource or lead to about future arrangements for the operation of increased returns. the industry. Assuming suitable arrangements can be The options paper presented five options developed and lessees find the incentive ranging from maintaining the status quo sufficiently attractive, the overall result should through to transferring all public timber be enhanced cypress pine forest management rights to lessees at no cost in management through a higher level of return for lessees accepting full timber management activity than is currently possible. management responsibilities and sustainability I must point out that conventional approaches controls. The concerns expressed apparently to sustainable management of leasehold have arisen in response to some of the cypress lands, by themselves, are proving insufficient to deliver the sustainable use aspects of the fifth option, that is, full timber objectives desired by society. This has rights, with conditions. However, I must stress to the House that at this stage this is only one prompted the search for new directions. of the options being considered. This sort of fundamental policy reassessment is not peculiar to the Importantly, the options paper also makes management of cypress pine on leasehold clear that there would be conditions lands but is apparent across the country with associated with the transferred rights under new directions being sought to achieve better this option, namely, management resource sustainability. An approach which responsibilities and sustainability controls. both incorporates and goes beyond While the impression might have been gained conventional mechanisms and which makes from the honourable member's statement that greater use of incentives and other economic the Government has finalised its position on instruments may be necessary. this matter, this is not the case. At this stage a preferred option has not been selected, and it The cypress pine review is looking toward is important not to pre-empt the alternative approaches, and one such recommendations that might result from this approach incorporated in the options is policy review process. property rights. There is a good chance that, with such an approach, change can be Analysis of the community responses to achieved with less cost to society and with each question posed in the review has been greater equity than is achievable under other undertaken and the results are contained in a mechanisms. community responses report. Feedback on the The next stages in the cypress pine policy options was polarised. In the main, review involve further issues resolution, further graziers and the Queensland Landcare discussion regarding implementation Council favoured lessees managing the total resource, which is option 5, whilst the mechanisms which may be necessary under each option, and resolution of issues relating sawmilling industry, through the Queensland to native title and the implications of the Wik Timber Board, favoured securing core timber decision. I can assure the House that the areas under DPI forestry control, or option 3. Government is aware of the views of all of the The Queensland Timber Board's parties in this matter and they will be taken argument revolves around safeguarding the into account when the final decision is being sustainable availability of cypress pine for made. 7 May 1997 Notices of Motion 1489

SCRUTINY OF LEGISLATION committee members for giving their time on a COMMITTEE public holiday—and a significant day for Labor Report members of Parliament—to carry out the arduous task of considering and adopting this Mr ELLIOTT (Cunningham) (9.58 a.m.): report, which is some 86 pages long. I lay upon the table of the House the Scrutiny of Legislation Committee's Alert Digest No. 5 of 1997 and move that it be printed. NOTICES OF MOTION Ordered to be printed. Disallowance of Statutory Instrument Mr ELLIOTT: On Wednesday and Hon. T. McGRADY (Mount Isa) Thursday of last week—30 April and 1 (10.01 a.m.): I give notice that on the next day May—Government Ministers introduced 17 of sitting I shall move— Bills into Parliament. In accordance with "That the Government Owned Standing Order 241, debate on the Bills Corporations (QGC1-3 and AEC) introduced on Wednesday of last week can Regulation 1997, No. 67, gazetted on 27 resume within six calendar days, on March 1997 and tabled in the Parliament Wednesday of this week. As last week and on 29 April 1997, be disallowed." this week are consecutive sitting weeks, the committee has limited time available to scrutinise the Bills and report to Parliament on Siting of New Prisons the results of that scrutiny. Mr BARTON (Waterford) (10.01 a.m.): I The committee therefore makes this give notice that I shall move— report to Parliament with the caution that "That this Parliament condemns the neither scrutiny of the Bills nor this report are Minister for Police and Corrective Services as fully developed or fully researched as they and Minister for Racing for— may have been given more time. As a result of these time restrictions, the committee his callous and hurried siting of two reserves the right to comment further on any new prisons just 500 metres from of the Bills reported in this digest. Riverhills' residents' back fences and less than 1,000 metres from the local At the time of tabling this digest, the primary school; committee had not yet completed its scrutiny of the Local Government Legislation the fact that he did not at any time Amendment Bill 1997. The committee will inform local residents of his plans for table any report that may be necessary on this their community; Bill on Friday, 9 May 1997, the day that his complete lack of consultation with debate can resume on this Bill under Standing the local residents until he was forced Order 241. to consult—some 11 or 12 months On behalf of the committee, I want to after his original decision was made; thank Neil Laurie, Karen Sampford and David his failure to consult in good faith with Thannhauser for making themselves available the local protest group, to assist with the considerable task of CRAMP—and his failure to honour scrutinising 17 Bills in two and half a working 1995 Coalition election commitments days. My appreciation goes to Mrs Lynette not to site the prisons any closer to Warwick, MLA, and her fellow members of the residents' properties than existing Legal, Constitutional and Administrative facilities; and Review Committee for making Neil and David This Parliament calls on the Minister to— available to assist our committee. I would also like to take this opportunity to thank Mr Nick place an immediate moratorium on Bannenberg, the Parliamentary Librarian, for all site planning and contractual and allowing Karen to help us out in our hour of tendering work associated with the need. construction of the new 600-cell men's prison and the 200-cell On behalf of the committee, I also thank women's prison at Wacol while he the staff of the committee—Louisa Pink, consults with the community; Simon Yick, Cassandra Adams and Bronwyn Rout—for the long hours that they have explore the possibility of siting these invested, particularly over a weekend, to two prisons elsewhere in South East ensure that, despite the time lines imposed, Queensland; and the committee can carry out its responsibilities enter in good faith into a to Parliament. Finally, I thank my fellow comprehensive period of consultation 1490 Private Members' Statements 7 May 1997

with local residents that genuinely assisting. It was the Opposition which last explores the possibility of siting the week asked whether he was going to put the prisons on other sites (or leaves $30m back on the table. The Premier has residents confident that the proposed been the greatest disincentive to development correctional facilities will be in this State. He is costing us jobs. He is the constructed in a way that minimises one who has created the circumstance in the impact on themselves, their which seven out of eight Queensland families and their homes)." employers say that they have no intention of taking on any more staff. That is the Premier's legacy to Queensland. PRIVATE MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Time expired. Resources Jobs Slump Mr BEATTIE (Brisbane Central—Leader of the Opposition) (10.03 a.m.): I table for the Chancellor H. Kohl; Trade Links with information of the House a statement from Germany Morgan & Banks that talks about the Mr J. N. GOSS (Aspley) (10.05 a.m.): resources jobs slump in Queensland. Let me Last Friday I had the honour of representing read from it. the Premier at the arrival in Australia of the Mrs Sheldon interjected. German Chancellor, Dr Helmut Kohl. Mr BEATTIE: The Treasurer has Chancellor Kohl, who is visiting Australia and entered the Chamber. We did not hear her New Zealand as part of a trade mission to Asia talk about unemployment this morning. She is and the Pacific, chose to arrive in this country like Admiral Nelson. She puts the telescope to at Cairns, an entry point used by many of his her blind eye, she puts on her rose-coloured countrymen who come to Australia as tourists. glasses and ignores the level of hardship she He spent Saturday making a visit to the Great is creating for young Queenslanders. But let Barrier Reef and attending a reception in his us look at what an independent body says— honour at Port Douglas. I am sure the chancellor and his party and the many "Resources jobs to slump in German business people travelling with him Queensland will have departed Queensland with some The Quarterly Morgan & Banks Job enthusiasm for this part of the world and its Index released today indicates a huge famed hospitality. slump in Resources jobs predicted for the It was important that the chancellor visited next quarter with a net effect of 26.7% of Queensland. Germany is a valuable trading Resources sector organisations partner of this State. While the present day announcing intentions to cut staff. This is bilateral trade balance is in Germany's favour, 19 percentage points down on the its rank as an important export market for previous survey." Queensland is expected to improve in the Morgan & Banks Limited is Australia's largest coming years as Germany imports more coal. recruitment company. That is the legacy of this Germany currently trails the UK and Benelux Government. The spokesman for Morgan & which take Queensland exports worth $400m Banks, Paul O'Laughlin, said that job a year, Italy at $317m and France at $185m. prospects in Queensland are going But our exports to Germany rose 50% in the backwards, and he is blaming the Borbidge past year, reaching $159m. These are not Government. He said— small amounts. They also represent the "Unfortunately we've got a hung upside of Queensland's new global approach (Parliament) here and no one seems to to doing business—a policy of the coalition be making the big decisions . . ." Government. East Asia, of course, remains our primary focus, but in an increasingly That is what he said on ABC radio, and I table competitive world we have to make every it for the information of the House. dollar we can wherever we can. What has happened in the resources Germany is a traditional partner. Germans sector? Let us take Century Zinc. The Premier came to Queensland in large numbers during went to Normanton looking for an election. He the early years of European settlement. Their did not go there to resolve the issue. If it were heritage has become a vital part of not for Century Zinc, the company, and if it Queensland's own. Today, this relationship is were not for the Aboriginal community, which chiefly expressed through business links and continued to negotiate, Century Zinc would not the cultural exchanges which inevitably follow. be going ahead. The Premier was an obstacle to the process. He was not in any way Time expired. 7 May 1997 Private Members' Statements 1491

TAB the $6.5m grant offered to fund 60% of the Hon. R. J. GIBBS (Bundamba) cost of a sewerage scheme for Mission Beach, (10.07 a.m.): On 1 May the Minister for Racing South Mission Beach and Wongaling Beach. rose in this Parliament and delivered a This offer was made jointly to the Cardwell and ministerial statement. He opened his Johnstone Shires. Funding for this project statement by saying that— could only have been made available as a direct result of the coalition's Smaller "The future of the Queensland TAB Communities Assistance Program. is one of the most important financial and structural issues faced by the Queensland This program did not exist under the racing industry in its history. The TAB, and former Government and was set up specifically the industry that relies on it, are at a by the coalition to ensure a fair deal for small crossroad." communities—a deal that ensures small communities can get access to vital funding During the course of his ministerial statement, for quality water and sewerage facilities. I the Minister rightfully promised a consultative cannot stress enough how important this grant approach to what is a pretty serious issue to is to the Mission Beach community. On behalf be tackling, that is, the future of the of Mission Beach residents, I must thank the Queensland TAB. His statement referred to talking to the three codes of the racing Minister for Local Government, Diane industry, namely, the dogs, the gallopers and McCauley, for personally visiting the area and the harness racing sector. Unfortunately, the agreeing to the funding. In addition, I would ministerial statement missed one very also like to thank the former Mayor of the important group of people: the employees of Cardwell Shire, Tip Byrne, and the former Mayor of the Johnstone Shire, Bill Wight. Both the TAB itself. these people, along with council In the typical style of this Government, it representatives, were instrumental in does not care about people who get up every highlighting the urgent need for the funding. day and go to work and rely on their jobs to feed their families. The employees of the TAB, Mission Beach is an important part of the through their representatives from the Hinchinbrook electorate and is growing Australian Services Union, have sought on residentially and tourist-wise. Unfortunately, several occasions through the Minister's staff because of the wet conditions in the area, to have an audience with the Minister to talk there were many restrictions on further about the future of the jobs at the TAB itself, development as E. coli levels were becoming but they have consistently been refused. The dangerously high as a result of the existing backbench members of the National and septic tanks. Liberal Parties should be concerned about this Time expired. issue as well. There are something like 186 race clubs throughout Queensland. Members opposite should be aware that, under a Hervey Bay Whale Watch Industry privatised TAB, half of those clubs are going to Mr NUNN (Hervey Bay) (10.11 a.m): On disappear because they simply will not be 15 February "truthful Rob", sometimes referred competitive in the marketplace. With the to in polite company as the Premier, attended disappearance of those clubs will also go a business breakfast in Hervey Bay. The some of the country outlets of the TAB, which purpose of the breakfast was to allow the will—— Premier to reassure Hervey Bay businesses Time expired. that the coalition was aware of the problems An incident having occurred in the public that it caused for Hervey Bay's whale watch gallery— industry by its intention to fragment the $15m Mr SPEAKER: Order in the gallery! industry by granting licences to its mates in Moreton Bay. He went over really well, saying that he would finalise the matter within the Smaller Communities Assistance next few weeks. The Premier massaged the Program whale watch operators by saying, "I am aware Mr ROWELL (Hinchinbrook) of the issue and at the end of the day we will (10.09 a.m.): Earlier this year the coalition come up with a package that will not Government reaffirmed its commitment to disappoint you." That was 12 weeks ago, for small communities in north Queensland. I God's sake. place on record the thanks of the people of Yesterday on Wide Bay TV news, the the Mission Beach area to the Government for Hervey Bay people copped this— 1492 Private Members' Statements 7 May 1997

"The Premier says Moreton Bay An Opposition member interjected. whale watch operators will be issued with Mr HEGARTY: I take the interjection. permits despite fears for the Hervey Bay industry. Government Ministers will meet Currently the only people who place any with the operators to officially break the significance on Labour Day are members of bad news later this week." the Labor Party and their fundraising and political enforcement arm, the trade unions. To This was the good news the Premier and his be fair, however, attached to the scrawny lackeys had promised Hervey Bay. The report showing of union banners and T-shirted goes on to say that the Government would supporters is a ragtag bunch of political misfits, face legal action which would inevitably be usually supporting such important topics as successful if it denied permits to the Moreton land rights for gay whales or equal Bay operators. I am asking the Premier to opportunities for the follically impaired. table any legal advice that he says he has to Anyway, soon there will not be enough—— back that statement up. The telecast also stated— Mr SCHWARTEN: I rise to a point of order. I find the comments made by the "While the Government is trying to honourable member to be offensive and I ask cover itself against legal claims from that they be withdrawn. Moreton Bay operators, Mr Borbidge dismisses the possibility of compensation Mr SPEAKER: The honourable to Hervey Bay operators. The Premier member has found remarks offensive and I says he will do all that he can to make ask that he withdraw them. sure that Hervey Bay business does not Mr HEGARTY: I will withdraw anything close its doors." that he found offensive. To hell with that statement! The Premier and Soon there will not be enough followers to his Ministers have done all they can to stage a march as the effects of secret ballots demolish business in Hervey Bay and they can and the removal of closed shop clauses from be assured that the whole of Hervey Bay awards are felt. The real workers will realise knows of their betrayal, their treachery and the what an irrelevant bunch the unions are and snide methods that they have used. The offer no tangible benefit to the real working Premier is also on record as pledging his classes. It is our Government's legislation in support for the Hervey Bay industry. workplace reform which gives individuals a real Time expired. say on conditions in the workplace and which stops unnecessary interference from politically Mr BORBIDGE: I rise to a point of motivated unions and their Labor Party order. The honourable member is misleading bosses. the House. There will be no more licences than there were last year. Time expired.

Labour Day Children's Commissioner Submission Mr HEGARTY (Redlands) (10.13 a.m.): Ms BLIGH (South Brisbane) On Monday we enjoyed yet another public (10.15 a.m.): Last week, the Minister for holiday in Queensland. On this occasion it was Families tabled a submission in this House not to honour the sacrifices of our forefathers from the Children's Commissioner. On page 3 on the beaches of Gallipoli, nor to celebrate that submission contains the following very the birth of our nation; it was allegedly to important disclaimer— recognise the historical achievement of "This Submission . . . should not organised labour in the early days of our necessarily be construed as the views of nation. the Queensland Government or any It is acknowledged that the labour Department of that Government." movement played an historical role in the I would like to take the opportunity to add the evolution of fair and safe working conditions at Labor Opposition to the list of those whose a time when justice and Christianity were views are not represented by some of the spoken about, but not always practised. material in this document. The editorial team However, who today recognises the current of the Sydney Morning Herald should be labour movement as connected with those advised that the Premier does not have a early, social-minded campaigners? Firstly, the monopoly on the weird and the bizarre in this spelling of "labour" was changed to "Labor" State. We need look no further than page 1, some years ago, thereby severing the which makes a range of references to the historical connection with the present holiday. Bible. It makes references to "two tablets of 7 May 1997 Private Members' Statements 1493 stone set the model for the making of rules". It expected to be announced before the end of refers to the United Nations' Convention on the financial year. This comprehensive network the Rights of the Child as "a set of 54 of services which will operate in conjunction commandments". It refers to the Bible as with a further 13 rural family support services is providing supplementary advice on the intended to create a curtain of care for families administration of the United Nations' in urban and rural communities across the convention and it refers quite bizarrely to "a State. The family support services program world in which the child perambulates". These aims to provide appropriate help and support references are inappropriate in a multicultural to families experiencing problems before those society; they are bizarre in the context of the problems become insurmountable. United Nations convention which seeks to This is part of the Government's strategy recognise the needs and rights of children of early intervention and prevention. To gain while respecting the social, religious and maximum effectiveness, the family support cultural differences across its member nations. workers operate through existing community But the truly weird thing appears of course in organisations to provide people with the opening lines where the child is defined as information and resources, skilled counselling, follows— practical help and referral to specialised "Like the flower, be it in the forest or services where necessary. There is a particular the garden, a child has the right to live focus on the promotion of effective parenting happily in its formative period, free from as a vital role in the community, the provision interference, battering or inordinate of child and family support services helping environmental influence"— families and communities to care for and whatever that may be— protect children, expanding the support and resources available for families and ensuring "so that its petals"— that services are available for all families I am not sure when it became okay to refer to regardless of their cultural, social or economic a child as an "it"— background. "can open, in the fullness of time, to This initiative also recognises the produce its true beauty and undistorted difficulties parents face by providing guidance reproductive glory." and support as a means of helping to reduce The Labor Party makes no apologies for not family tension and possible family breakdown. knowing what this means. We find it both Family support services are designed to strange and curious in a discussion paper strengthen the capacity of families and about children. Perhaps the Minister can come communities to deal with crises in a positive in here one day and inform the House about manner and, because each family's needs are "undistorted reproductive glory". Perhaps he different, help and support is provided in a can take a briefing from his staff about variety of ways. "undistorted reproductive glory". Perhaps his Time expired. parliamentary secretary can tell us what it means. Time expired. Kurwongbah By-election Hon. D. M. WELLS (Murrumba) Family Support Services (10.20 a.m.): The Liberal/National Party coalition has been getting a major belt from Miss SIMPSON (Maroochydore) some literature which has recently been (10.17 a.m.): In its commitment to improving circulating in the Kurwongbah electorate. I services for Queensland families, this would like to acquaint honourable members Government has been developing a number with the content of some of it. One piece of of initiatives during the past year. Among writing says— these has been family support services, for which the 1996-97 Budget allocated $3.1m "The current by-election campaign is over three years to enable new services to be an excellent opportunity to get action on established by the Department of Families, important issues of concern here in our Youth and Community Care. I was pleased community." that Maroochydore was able to benefit from The assumption, of course, is that after two this. It is a desperately needed service which years of Liberal/National Party Government, has been welcomed by the community. the electorate of Kurwongbah has been There are now 31 family support services neglected. The article to which I have referred throughout Queensland and more are goes on to list some of the headings— 1494 Private Members' Statements 7 May 1997

"Traffic Jams been stripped away as telecommunication We need a start to work on the companies have a right to utilise power poles overdue Petrie Bypass. It is essential to under their common carrier privileges within cut traffic congestion in our community. the Commonwealth Telecommunications Act 1991. Unfortunately, telecommunication . . . companies hold legislative powers to use We need better Police-community SEQEB's assets whether or not an agreement links and more resources to fight crime in is in place, as well as the opportunity of our community." bypassing Australia's other protective layers of It also stated that they need— legislation, including the local government and environmental laws. "Jobs (Particularly for the young)". Using overhead cabling as a means of In another piece of literature, the people supplying pay TV to homes will be a long-term, of Kurwongbah received a nice postcard degrading environmental blight on our featuring a picture of a traffic jam. The card communities. Long term, overhead cables reads— have a 40 to 50-year life span, although the "To all at home in Kurwongbah, booster boxes and junctions will be replaced People are fed up with this traffic sooner. However, once in place, the coaxial chaos. We have been stuck in traffic jams cables will probably be there for at least 50 on Gympie Road for too long." years. Since my constituents suffer visual pollution intruding into their homes, as well as The person who wrote the postcard was reduced property values where overhead sheeting home the blame to where it belongs, cables obstruct views, their only remaining and said— protest against this environmental disaster is ". . . I'm calling for an urgent start on the not to subscribe to pay TV. The lesson that long overdue Petrie-Strathpine By Pass should be learnt from this debacle is that any Project." utility examining common carrier privileges The author also invites— must consider the long-term effects of such protocols. ". . . the Transport Minister to Strathpine to check out the chaos we see on our roads every Saturday." Crime, Woodridge Electorate He says also that he wants a commitment Mr D'ARCY (Woodridge) (10.23 a.m.): I from the Government to fix the problem. rise to indicate that there has been an Who is putting this material around? Who extraordinary spate of crime in the Woodridge is giving these belts to the coalition area—break and enter offences—and this is Government? Who is sheeting home the above what has normally occurred. I do not blame to the people who have been always believe that extra police and numbers disadvantaging the people of Kurwongbah? of police are very important. They are important, of course, but they do not solve the A Government member: The Labor problem. Preventive policing is the method Party. that I have always suggested in this place is Mr WELLS: I take that objection from absolutely necessary. Commonsense must the Honourable Minister, who said that it was prevail. We have had it with the Bingham the Labor Party. No, in the familiar blue that report. When one gets to the stage at which we have all come to know, it was the Liberal people are reporting that police are driving Party—— past felonies to go to a three-day-old crime Time expired. and things like that, one does not know whether or not they are telling the truth, but when the story is repeated many times, one Overhead Cables realises that there is a problem in the area. Mr RADKE (Greenslopes) (10.22 a.m.): I have been in favour of extraordinary and Overhead communication cables are a visual special measures: team policing, preventive pollution upon the magnificent aspects of policies and community schemes that might homes within the Greenslopes electorate. My work. I believe that it is quite easy to constituents know that overhead cables are an undertake some of these activities, such as evil dropped on citizens by the previous doing ID checks in areas such as Woodridge, Hawke/Keating ALP Federal Government which is a high-risk area, cars being stopped to without any community consultation. check car regos, and things like that. Night Furthermore, State and council rights have working areas should be policed and looked 7 May 1997 Private Members' Statements 1495 after. Cars are being stolen from railway have to be admired for practising in such stations. Areas such as that have to be a hopeless environment. policed a lot more. Why can't people look at the big The police seem to be straitjacketed. picture? Thirty years from now—the From speaking to the Minister, I know that he university, general hospital, Kirwan is sympathetic to community concerns, and he women's. Magic isn't it? has visited the area. However, he must We could lead the world in the communicate those concerns to the Police treatment of tropical diseases, plus Department. It appears that what is numerous exciting avenues of medical Government policy and what is Police science. Worry not about the millionaires Department policy is not getting through to the in North Ward. They will have something police on the ground. It is of tremendous mapped out for that rocky piece of concern that this is occurring. As I have said, Stanton Hill." more police are not necessarily the answer. We must communicate to those police on the As that author said, since arriving at the top ground who are servicing these high-risk job of the Labor Party in Queensland, areas. Beattie's ego has grown as fast as his girth.

Townsville General Hospital Internet Access to Legislation Mr TANTI (Mundingburra) (10.25 a.m.): Hon. M. J. FOLEY (Yeronga) We have an issue in Townsville which relates (10.27 a.m.): I urge the Attorney-General to to the relocation of the Townsville General make Queensland legislation accessible free Hospital. Daily we see many letters in the of charge on the Internet. Legislation and letters to the editor page of the Townsville case law of the Commonwealth, New South Bulletin. Recently, the Labor train arrived in Wales, South Australia, the Australian Capital Townsville, and the Leader of the Opposition Territory and the Northern Territory are had a say on the relocation of the hospital. available without charge through the Last Saturday's Townsville Bulletin carried a Australian Legal Information Institute on the letter headed "Big picture". The writer of that Internet. letter said— Every Queenslander is bound to obey the "It is incomprehensible to me that law, so the law should be accessible for all to such drivel is gushing forth from the lips of read. I table an extract from the Internet site of Peter Beattie. Since arriving at the top job the Law Foundation of New South Wales, of the Labor party in Queensland, his ego which reports as follows— has grown as fast as his girth." "In 1995 the Queensland The author of the letter also said— Parliamentary Counsel's (QPC) office was "Beware, Queensland, if Beattie and instructed that electronic copies of his bunch of cowboys ever make it to legislation could be made available free of parliament house, you will see our charge to non-profit organisations. wonderful state, which is first in the land However, they have since been instructed and the only one in the black, slide very not to provide electronic versions free-of- quickly down the ladder and be last and charge until another review of QPC is very much in the red." complete, but that they can provide the data to the THEMIS project." The author also said— The THEMIS project is a project of the "The Townsville General Hospital Queensland Law Society and Queensland must be relocated; everybody has known Law Foundation, which is a private network, that for many years. and access is charged at an annual fee. Did anyone ever ask Beattie to I urge the Attorney-General to make the present at the enquiry desk Block A and law of the land available for all to see under request direction to a patient in Ward the technology which enables people to 10B? If you achieve that goal first up then access it free of charge in their homes. It is crossing the Sinai desert would be a piece important in a free society that people should of cake. know the law, and we should be doing all in The wonder to me is that the staff our power to ensure that that law is accessible are so tolerant and pleasant. They spend to them and using modern technology to their days working like traffic cops in spite ensure that that accessibility is kept up to date of their busy schedules and the doctors with the needs of modern times. It is 1496 Questions Without Notice 7 May 1997 unacceptable that the citizens of other States Deputy, Tim Fischer, to campaign publicly on should have this access but that the citizens of National Party policy on the native title issue, Queensland are denied this access to will she be asking the Premier for permission legislation via the means of the Internet. It is to speak out on this issue? If so, which will she important that, in a free society, information be support: the Prime Minister's 10-point plan or made as available as is possible. the Premier's one-point plan? Time expired. Mrs SHELDON: I thank the honourable member for his question. After all, this is the honourable member, the Leader of the Far North Queensland Institute of Opposition, who has no plan. At all times, I TAFE have been able to speak out and indeed Ms WARWICK (Barron River) have. My major concern still is—— (10.29 a.m.): I am pleased to inform the Mr Beattie: When? House that another element of the Government's capital development plan has Mrs SHELDON: If the honourable been implemented. Construction has member is really interested, my major concern commenced on the tourism and hospitality is that the 10-point plan does not cover all the building at the Cairns campus of the Far North issues that are important to Queensland. Queensland Institute of TAFE. This new Mr Hamill: Oh! building will not only provide a new education Mrs SHELDON: Quite clearly, I have facility in which the most up-to-date training nothing to hide, so I am happy to tell the can be delivered, but the Government's capital members opposite of discussions that I have injection will help create more jobs and had with the Prime Minister. Indeed, I did last stimulate the local regional economy. week and I will continue to do so this week. I In conjunction with the building of this new have spoken to him on a number of facility, the Department of Training and occasions. The matter that has to be resolved Industrial Relations has also initiated the very clearly is certainty for our State, both in refurbishment of H Block to complement the claims and how those claims are brought project. I would like to add that, due to tropical about and certainty in compensation. Certainly cyclone Justin and the wet season, there have one of the major thrusts of what the Prime been some delays with these projects. Minister is saying in his 10-point plan, and has However, due to the management expertise of said to us, is that he will give us as a State the the Department of Training and Industrial responsibility for creating our own legislation, Relations, the projects are expected to stay which will transform leasehold into freehold, within budget and be completed and occupied but at the same time as the Government during the 1997-98 financial year. takes that responsibility it must take on any native title claim over that land. As the Leader I also add that construction has been of the Opposition would be well aware, a large completed for the new arts and cultural centre at the Cairns campus. The new facility, which percentage of our State is currently under is now in use, provides the campus with—— claim. Not spelt out in that 10-point plan, although it is clearer for miners and for Crown Time expired. land, are the sorts of claims that can be made and the claimants who may make that claim. The Prime Minister has clarified that in the DISTINGUISHED VISITOR mining industry; he has not clarified that for Mr A. Fogh-Rasmussen, Denmark pastoral leases. If we as a State are going to Mr SPEAKER: Order! Before I call take on that responsibility, we have to realise question time, I wish to advise the Parliament that we will also be up for paying the that in the Speaker's gallery is Mr Anders compensation Bill. There has to be clarity for Fogh-Rasmussen, Deputy Leader of the pastoral leases and who can claim them. That Liberal Party of the Parliament of Denmark. clarity needs to be for Aborigines as well as for people who have pastoral leases. Honourable members: Hear, Hear! Mr Beattie interjected. Mr Hamill interjected. QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE Mrs SHELDON: All they are interested Native Title in, both of them—in fact, most of the Mr BEATTIE (10.30 a.m.): I ask the Opposition, but particularly—— Deputy Premier and Treasurer: in view of the Mr Borbidge: They created the decision of the Prime Minister to allow his problem. 7 May 1997 Questions Without Notice 1497

Mrs SHELDON: Yes, that is quite true, We must be very clear about the they did. They are interested only in cheap percentage that the State will have to pay. We political point scoring; they are not really have said, and I have stated very clearly to the interested in any resolution for our State. Prime Minister, that we are not prepared to An Opposition member: Put your take on responsibility for more than 25% of plan up. that quantum. The Federal Government would have to take on the 75%. On Friday night, the Mrs SHELDON: If I was not constantly Prime Minister rang me back and we interrupted, I would. I know that the member discussed that issue further. I believe that he would find it very difficult to understand is of the opinion that the Commonwealth because of his low level of intelligence, but I Government must be fair in this regard. Until am quite sure that we will be able to maintain we see that those three points that I have the debate. raised are covered in the legislation and If the State takes on that responsibility, clarified—I know that the Prime Minister and we have to be sure that the claims over those his staff are working overtime to do that—it is pastoral leases have been brought by people impossible to say, as the honourable member who have the ability to claim under the Prime very stupidly keeps saying, one way or the Minister's definition for both mineral leases other. We have to determine what is best for and for Crown land. That is not in the 10-point the people of Queensland. That is my plan. I have discussed that with the Prime responsibility, that is the Premier's Minister. We have to be very clear that, if this responsibility and that is what we in the responsibility is given to us, we as a State are coalition are working towards: looking after the not dragged before the courts under the interests of Queenslanders, whoever they may Racial Discrimination Act, because that must be and wherever they maybe. be a Federal responsibility. The Prime Minister has said that that head of power will stay with the Federal Government and the Racial Queensland Health Capital Works Discrimination Act, if necessary, will be Program amended. None of that is in the 10-point plan. Mr BEATTIE: I refer the Minister for If we take on that responsibility in State Health to his answer to question on notice legislation, we have to bear the brunt of 126, which I table, in which he told the compensation. member for Redcliffe that the Treasurer's 5% Mr Hamill: So what's your policy? capital charge does not affect the timing of projects within his Health capital works Mrs SHELDON: I have just been telling program. I ask: is it not a fact that his the honourable member two planks of it, as he department advised him in February that the would know if he had bothered to listen. current capital charging regime has the Mr Beattie: You know exactly what potential to compromise Queensland Health's mine is. effort to accelerate the capital works program? Government members interjected. Mr HORAN: I believe that it is very apt that the Leader of the Opposition should ask Mrs SHELDON: The Leader of the that question, as it was he who left us with the Opposition has no policy. $1.2 billion blow-out in the hospital capital Mr SPEAKER: Order on both sides of works budget. Not only that, it was Leader of the Chamber! the Opposition who tried the midnight heist of Mrs SHELDON: The third and important taking out $34m of capital works money that plank is that, if the State takes on that would have been used for the Caboolture legislative responsibility and also takes on the Hospital, the Hervey Bay Hospital or the responsibility of native title claims over those Bundaberg Hospital. He tried to use that leases, we have to pay the compensation. It money to cover up the recurrent funding black has not been clarified—— hole that he was leaving—the absolute financial mess in which he left Queensland Mr Mackenroth: How much? Health. It is very apt that he should ask the Mrs SHELDON: How much? What a question. We have repeatedly told this House ridiculous question! That has to go to the and the people of Queensland about the courts to be resolved. $1.2 billion blow-out, about all the hospitals that could not have been built or would have Mr Elder: You should have an idea. been only half built under Labor. What have Mrs SHELDON: That shows the poverty we done? We have fixed up the mess. Not of intellect on the other side of the House. even $150m of his $1.7 billion, 10-year plan 1498 Questions Without Notice 7 May 1997 had been approved by Treasury. Within his that he could not spend anywhere near it. So $1.7 billion plan, all the minor capital works what did he do? He took out $34m to cover up were included, which came out of the regions' the recurrent funding black hole that he was budgets. That was an absolute farce. The leaving behind! current Leader of the Opposition when he was Mr BEATTIE: I rise to a point of order. Minister for Health wandered around the State The Minister is misleading the House. That is making unfunded multi-million dollar promises. untrue. He knows it is. The money went into As I said before, the one person in this State capital works. I ask that it be withdrawn. one should never let near a chequebook is the Opposition Leader, Mr Beattie. If one wants a Mr SPEAKER: Order! What is the financial mess, if one wants all the good work member's point of order? that has been done by the coalition Mr BEATTIE: I ask that it be withdrawn. overturned, one should let him near the He has alleged—— chequebook. He has demonstrated very clearly already just what he can do. Mr SPEAKER: Is the honourable member personally maligned? We have reorganised the Hospital Rebuilding Program to provide $2.1 billion over Mr BEATTIE: Yes, I am. The Minister 10 years so that all the unfunded programs alleged that the $34m that went into capital can now be undertaken. That means that for works did not actually go into capital works. It all those projects that had been promised by is untrue and I ask for it to be withdrawn. Labor for which it did not have the cash—the Mr SPEAKER: The honourable people out there are not silly; they know that if member has asked the Minister to withdraw they are promised a $120m hospital and the the remarks. I suggest that the Minister table Government has only $60m, it will not build it information at some future time. In view of the but leave it forever—we are providing the fact that the member has found the remark actual cash to pay the architects, engineers offensive, I ask the Minister to withdraw. and subcontractors, to pay for the concrete, to provide the equipment and to build the Mr HORAN: I withdraw it. So the $34m hospitals. We are delivering, whereas Labor was to be used to cover up the black hole that had $1.2 billion of unfunded promises. the member was facing at that stage in the recurrent funding. So the member did not This Government has put in place a deliver on the $195m for that financial year. system that has guaranteed that the cash is This financial year, our target is $295m. available to build the projects. Not only that, Members should wait until they see the this financial year we have a target of $295m forthcoming Budget. Then they will see just for State capital works spending in how much the coalition Government is putting Queensland. What was the previous largest into capital works this year. I doubt that there figure? It was $195m for 1995-96. In the few would be a State in Australia that would be months that the coalition was in Government undertaking the massive Capital Works in that financial year, it made sure it put back Program that is being undertaken by the the $34m that Mr Beattie tried to rip out. A coalition Government. cardinal sin of any business organisation is to strip out capital funding. The coalition Government, with its $2.1 billion, is providing the cash, which means that Mr BEATTIE: I rise to a point of order. I we can actually do it—pour the concrete and find those comments offensive. They are pay the workers, not like members opposite untrue. The Minister has not even sought to who had $1.2 billion unfunded. That was just respond to the question. He continues his an absolute charade. Not only that, this dishonesty. I seek it to be withdrawn under the Government is providing the cash and a faster Standing Orders. construction period. Instead of the $150m to Mr SPEAKER: Order! We are not $170m-odd a year that was being spent under debating how the Minister answers the Labor, this year there is a target of $295m. As question. The member has raised a point of I said to members, they should watch for the order that he finds a remark offensive. I do not forthcoming Budget to see how much this want to debate how the Minister answers the Government has brought forward capital works question. The honourable Leader of the and how much more it is spending than did Opposition has found some remark offensive, the former Government. This Government is and I ask the Minister to withdraw. spending more, and it is spending it on time. Mr HORAN: I will withdraw that. As I was That means that the work is being done. This saying, the target for 1995-96 was $195m. Government is achieving and is fixing up However, the former Minister for Health knew Labor's mess. 7 May 1997 Questions Without Notice 1499

1997 Queensland Year Book In relation to the important criteria that are Mr SPRINGBORG: I refer the Deputy contained in the year book, I think that it is Premier, Treasurer and Minister for The Arts to very important to note that they do not relate a report in the Sunday Mail titled "State rates to Queensland in 1997; basically they relate to a low mark" sourced from the 1997 Queensland during 1994-95. Really, it is a Queensland Year Book, and I ask: could she report card on the previous Labor please inform the House whether the Government. information contained within the Queensland Year Book is an up-to-date analysis of the Queensland Government's performance? Expenditure of Minister for Families, Youth and Community Care Mrs SHELDON: I thank the member for his very in-depth question. I think that it is Mr ELDER: I draw the attention of the important that the House and the people of Minister for Families, Youth and Community Queensland understand what the 1997 Year Care to section 5.6 of the Cabinet Guidelines Book is. It is really not a report on this for Financial Management of the Office of a Government at all; it is a report on the Minister, which expressly prohibits the practice previous Labor Government. That is to which of hiding ministerial expenses by having staff Government all the figures relate, and I will go pay for a Minister's meals on their official credit through them. cards. I table FOI documents which record breaches by the Minister and his staff of these Although the year book is an excellent guidelines on at least nine separate occasions reference document, we have to be very clear since June 1996, and I ask: why has the about to what it refers. As I said, it may be a Minister thumbed his nose at these anti- report card for Queensland but I think that, corruption measures and authorised his when it is being quoted from in the media, the ministerial staff to use their official credit cards relevant dates should be made very clear. I to pay for his meals? say also that it is not an accurate assessment of how our State is progressing now in 1997. Mr LINGARD: As far as I am Most of the data in that book is two years old. concerned, all records of all payments made For example, the crime statistics relate to by me as a Minister are all handled by MSB. I the period covering 12 months from May 1994 make no payments myself. That is how it is to April 1995, which was during the reign of done. That is how it was done by the previous the Labor Government. The State finance Government, and that is how I have done it figures relate to the financial year 1994-95. myself. That information is two years old and, again, relates to the reign of the Labor Government. National Competition Policy If members and other people wish to avail themselves of the latest figures, they can look Mr CARROLL: I refer the Minister for at the ABS figures or they can look at the last Local Government and Planning to recent Budget papers, which are much more up to comments from the Opposition Leader relating date. It is also worth noticing that during the to the impact of the National Competition period 1994-95, the State's tax grab Policy on local governments. I particularly refer increased. Indeed, that occurred under the to his comments that there have been 400 Labor Government. council job losses, and I ask: can the Minister Over the past two years, and particularly clarify when these job losses occurred? over the last 12 months, our tourism industry Mrs McCAULEY: I thank the has picked up dramatically. So that honourable member for his question because information in the year book as it relates to there has been a lot of heat and not much tourism, which is very important for the people light on this particular topic. To be fair, there of our State, relates back to 1995. The key have been concerns expressed by all sides of data in the year book relating to Queensland's the House on this particular matter. The labour market is only current to May 1996. So breathtaking hypocrisy of the less than those figures are 12 months old. Also, the breathtaking hypocrite who is the Leader of housing and construction data in the year the Opposition on this particular matter—— book relates to 1994-95. As all members in this House would be aware, that was a period Mr SPEAKER: Order! I ask the Honourable Minister for Local Government to of a cyclical downturn in the construction withdraw that remark. industry. As I indicated very clearly in my ministerial statement to the House this Mrs McCAULEY: I withdraw that morning, that is not the position now. remark. 1500 Questions Without Notice 7 May 1997

The charismatic, ego-driven Leader of the particular council. The Labor Government Opposition who measures his worth in column thumbed its nose and would not help. inches every morning when he gets up has Mr Beattie: Jobs went up, obviously, been less than helpful on this issue of National under us. Competition Policy. It is time to set the record straight. He went around the State and said, Mrs McCAULEY: No. Under a coalition "Oh, how dreadful. Under National Government the council has six more staff on Competition Policy, 400 jobs have been lost." its outside work force than it had under a That came from a survey of councils that was Labor Government. That speaks for itself. carried out by the Local Government I wish to quote former Treasurer De Lacy Association. When were the jobs lost? When on National Competition Policy. To remind was the survey period? It was 1995, when that honourable members, the National lot opposite were in power! Competition Policy was introduced by Mr Keating and his Federal Labor Government The LGAQ then signed a protocol with the and it was signed off by a State Labor then Minister for Transport, Mr Hamill. Indeed, Government. Now Mr Beattie has written to all I have a photo of him signing it. That is where councils and said, "We do not think this is a the job losses came from. This idea was very good idea." espoused by the Labor Government when in power and the flow-on from it showed that Mr Beattie: That's why you're upset. Government's lack of concern for jobs in local Mrs McCAULEY: I will come to that in a councils because it set in motion the cause of minute. I do not like the hypocrisy of my friend local councils' concerns. The present Minister opposite and I am about to expose it. The for Transport, who is more concerned about former Treasurer, Mr De Lacy, stated— rural and regional Queensland—— "In April 1995, Queensland along Opposition members: Ha, ha! with other States and the Commonwealth entered into a number of agreements Mrs McCAULEY: Yes, he is a good which embodied the reforms known as bloke. the National Competition Policy. The The Minister for Transport and I are Queensland Government was a willing undertaking a review of the zonal system that participant in the formulation of this the Labor Government instigated. Last week a policy." meeting was held at Emerald and meetings The then Premier, Mr Goss, said, "The will also be held at Charters Towers, Queensland Government has taken a leading Longreach and a whole host of places to look role." Somehow, somewhere along the track, it at the problems raised by the zonal method of was fine when those opposite were in road tendering that the Labor Government Government but now that they are in brought in. We are looking at it because both Opposition they have decided that it is not so the Minister for Transport and I are very aware smart after all. They did not think that when in of the importance of jobs in councils in rural Government, and nor did Mr Ludwig, who and regional Queensland. We are not about underwent a conversion on the road to doing away with those jobs; we are not about Damascus. chasing down the track that the people opposite went down. Mr Beattie: You've signed up. Mrs McCAULEY: On this issue, Mr The coalition is strongly committed to Beattie is a fraud and a charlatan and he will jobs. A report in the Courier-Mail about the be exposed as such. The Leader of the Biggenden Shire Council sparked my interest, Opposition wrote to councils about the Hilmer although, of course, one cannot believe issue and stated— everything that one reads in the Courier-Mail. That report said—shock, horror, how "Labor believes there is scope within dreadful—Biggenden Shire Council's work the processes outlined under the National force was decreased by 20 as a result of Competition Policy to properly consider National Competition Policy. I inquired about the community impact of such reforms, that and it is not so. Biggenden is in my chiefly through a vigorous application of electorate and I know the council well. The the Public Benefit Test in any review of Biggenden Shire Council informed me that current arrangements." under a coalition Government its outside work But this is already going to happen! The force had actually increased by six. When the Leader of the Opposition is a fizzer, an people opposite were in power, I wrote and absolute fraud and a charlatan. The public wrote and wrote to get some help for that benefit test is there and he knows it is there. 7 May 1997 Questions Without Notice 1501

Mr BEATTIE: I rise to a point of order. "What we do require in Queensland The Minister is telling untruths to the in determining the appropriate forms of Parliament and I find that offensive. She economic intervention to improve overall knows it is untrue and I ask for it to be living standards is a preparedness to withdrawn. examine each case on its merits. In some Mrs McCAULEY: I am just reading instances, proper scrutiny will support what the member said. I will apologise if it reform, in other cases it will not. This upsets him, but it is true that he knows that it approach"— is already there and it will be done. that is, the present Queensland Government's Mr Beattie: Withdraw. approach— "should not be mistaken or Mrs McCAULEY: I have already said misrepresented as the 'do nothing' option, that I withdraw, but it is there and it is true. I rather it should be applauded." shall read the next paragraph of the Leader of the Opposition's letter. If anyone can make sense of this, then he is a better man than I Expenditure of Minister for Families, am because it does not make sense. Youth and Community Care Opposition members: Ha, ha! Ms SPENCE: I refer the Minister for Mr Gibbs: You won't be welcome in Families, Youth and Community Care to a Pine Rivers. meal at Skylites Uptown Restaurant in Rockhampton on 28 August 1996, where the Mrs McCAULEY: It is the Opposition's Minister's senior adviser Wendy Howard's question time! official credit card was used—in contravention In the letter that he wrote to the council, of the guidelines—to pay for the Minister's the Leader of the Opposition also stated— meal and that of a family member, and I ask: did he not learn anything from the experience "Quite simply, we believe that the of former National Party Minister Brian Austin, theoretical potential for a marginal who was gaoled for 15 months in 1990 for decrease in price is in many cases entertaining family members at taxpayers' insufficient justification for the depletion of expense? local employment opportunities and the loss of public accountability." Mr LINGARD: That insinuation is completely and utterly dishonest, because He went on to say that a Beattie Labor now under the MSB when a special adviser Government "will approach the pays for a meal every person sitting at the implementation of the National Competition table has to be listed among the number of Policy in a sensitive and pragmatic way". people who were at the table. However, that Again, the Leader of the Opposition is does not state who has paid for the meal. If a exposed on this issue. There is already a person such as a family member walks in public benefit test and there is already a social during a meal and if I pay for that family obligation component, yet the Leader of the member, as I always do, the total number of Opposition is writing to councils saying that he people sitting at the table must be listed on will ensure that this happens. That is a fraud the form for MSB. However, the form does not because it is already there. It is going to show that I paid for meals; it just shows the happen and we will handle it much more whole amount that was paid. The member's sensitively than the people opposite, who are comments are completely and utterly so opposed to local government, did. dishonest, because I paid for that meal. The final word must rest with Greg Hallam, the Executive Director of the LGAQ, who recently wrote to the Courier-Mail on the issue. Leading Schools Program Mr J. N. GOSS: I refer the Minister for Mr SPEAKER: Order! The Minister will Education to claims made by the member for wind up her answer. Cook in Parliament last Friday that teachers at Mrs McCAULEY: I will. I do not get the Mountain Creek State High School had many questions. I think this is the third one been involved in a ballot to manufacture that I have ever been asked. support for the Leading Schools Program. Can Mr Hallam said that he wants to place on the Minister advise the House whether these the public record that the current State claims have any factual basis? Government has shown real leadership on this Mr QUINN: This is the latest example in issue. He concludes by stating— a long list of dodgy claims being perpetrated in 1502 Questions Without Notice 7 May 1997 the House by the member for Cook. They Mr BREDHAUER: I rise to a point of emanate from the Queensland Teachers order. Mr Speaker, I find the claims that I was Union as part of its campaign to discredit the dragged outside to talk to the teachers untrue Leading Schools Program. and offensive. The Minister and the Premier At Mountain Creek, the principal called were invited, as was the Leader of the together the staff, discussed the issues with Opposition and me. We went; "Back Door the teachers and then invited the heads of Bob" cowered inside. department to sit down and discuss this issue Mr QUINN: The claim was not that the with them and report back to him. Part of the member was dragged outside to speak to the exercise involved a discussion in a small group teachers, it was that he had to be dragged situation removed from the heat of an into making public the fact that he had industrial arena so that the issues could be changed his mind. He was making public discussed sensibly. statements that he did not support the strike, For the information of the House—and to but on the day he wanted to get out there with show how misleading the member for Cook his mates on the back of the truck and make a has been—I will table the statutory declaration big man of himself. However, he did not have signed by the principal of the school which the courage to issue a public statement refutes what the member for Cook said and indicating that he had reversed his position. what the QTU is propagating. As I said before, I move on to the latest episode in the this is just the latest in a long list of long list of hospital passes the member has misrepresentations by the QTU being taken. I have the statutory declaration signed propagated by the member for Cook. The by the principal of the school refuting—— member has taken so many hospital passes from the QTU in recent times that he must be Mr Pearce: Frank Peach's brother. getting groggy. Mr QUINN: It does not matter who it is. I Honourable members should cast back will take great pleasure in tabling the statutory their minds to the time prior to the Budget, declaration. It states— when the QTU said that the Government was ". . . the statement made by Mr going to reduce teacher numbers by some Bredhauer regarding a ballot of teachers 2,000. The member for Cook came into the at Mountain Creek State High School 'in House and repeated the claim. What which they voted 40 to 6 to support happened? The Budget was brought down Leading Schools'"— and we increased teacher numbers by a thousand. Where is the member's credibility? by the way, that was my mistake and I Now the member is saying that the apologise for giving the wrong numbers in the Government will abolish the teacher transfer House; the member will see what I am system under the Leading Schools Program. referring to in a minute— All the information we have provided to the "and which is contained in the Hansard public and the schools is that the teacher record of Friday May 2, 1997 is untrue. transfer program will stand, yet the member is Mr Bredhauer tabled a form that he saying, "Beware, the Government will abolish alleged was a ballot paper used to the teacher transfer policy." ascertain teacher support for participation If there is any doubt that the member is in the Leading Schools program as a Pilot simply a puppet and a parrot for the QTU, that School. fact ought to be made plain to everyone by the instance when the QTU called upon the As the Principal of Mountain Creek teachers to strike. The honourable member for State High School and the person who Cook released a public statement saying that conducted the consultation process with he did not support the QTU and the strike. On teachers I can advise that the ballot paper the day of the strike, when the teachers described by Mr Bredhauer and tabled in mustered in front of Parliament House, the the House was not used by me at this school. No ballot paper was used. member had to be dragged into the public arena to say that he now supported the strike. After a meeting conducted by me Honourable members should remember that from 6.00pm until 7.00pm on Tuesday that came from the back bench; it did not April 29, 1997 teachers were quite simply come from the member for Cook. He did not asked to meet in subject area groups led make a public statement saying that he had by their Head of Department and advise now changed his mind. There was no public that Head of Department . . . 'whether you statement putting his credibility on the line so are prepared to support our participation that people could be made aware of his view. as a Leading Schools Pilot School'. 7 May 1997 Questions Without Notice 1503

Heads of Department subsequently Coalition Government Training met with me as a group and advised of Initiatives the results of those discussions they had Mr RADKE: I ask the Minister for held with teachers in their faculty areas. In Training and Industrial Relations: will he outline fact the final result was 48 in favour with 6 to the House some of the excellent training opposed." initiatives being undertaken by the coalition It is about time that the member for Cook Government during 1997? stopped acting as a parrot for the Queensland Mr SANTORO: I thank the honourable Teachers Union, took on board the legitimate member for his question. As most honourable concerns of teachers and principals and members in this place would appreciate, the stopped misleading the House with these wild honourable member for Greenslopes has had and deceptive claims being propagated in the a very rich training program. That is one of the schools by the QTU. The member has no more distinguishing aspects of the honourable credibility at all on these issues. Time and time member. He takes a very real interest in issues again, he has been caught out peddling relating to training, and I encourage him to untruths and deceptive information simply to keep on doing so. That is obviously not a help an industrial campaign being waged by predisposition or a trait of honourable the QTU. The record speaks for itself. Every members opposite. As I have previously time the member speaks in this House and outlined—— every time he makes a public statement, one Mr T. B. Sullivan: That's not true. really has to question whether or not what he is saying is true. Mr SANTORO: I take the interjection that that is not true. Unfortunately, the Commission of Audit, which was an Expenditure of Minister for Families, independent commission set up by this Youth and Community Care Government, found out that it is true that the former Government was not at all effective in Ms BLIGH: I direct a question to the terms of promoting training, and in particular a Minister for Families, Youth and Community training culture within this place. The Care. I refer to the fact that $136 worth of honourable member for Greenslopes is very expenses incurred on his media adviser's wise to ask this question, because it gives us corporate credit card at the Gallery Bar of the an opportunity not only to speak of our Conrad Treasury Hotel on 26 September 1996 achievements but also to highlight what was subsequently charged to the Minister's deficiencies the honourable members department and not to his ministerial office, opposite left within the training system. according to debit note No. 3-505736. I table the relevant documents. I also refer to official A whole range of initiatives have been guidelines which expressly prohibit the undertaken by the Government in the Year of charging of ministerial expenses to Training. It is important that they be departmental budgets and prohibit the summarised so that the House can be charging of casual drinks to either the informed of the breadth and depth of this Minister's office or department, and I ask: on Government's initiatives. If we look at the what basis did the Minister, as the trialling of the one-stop apprenticeship shops accountable officer, determine that the or contracted entry level training agencies— consumption of 12 pots of Fourex, 19 pots of CELTAs, as they are known—we see that Victoria Bitter, six pots of Light Ice, five pots of Queensland was the first State to receive Tenterfield Lager, five standard spirits, four funding under the new MAATS arrangements. stubbies of Fourex Gold, four deluxe spirits We were the first State in Australia to enter and two liqueurs constituted an eligible into meaningful relationships with industry, the departmental expense? MTIA and the QCCI to simplify the methods by which small businesses in particular can Mr LINGARD: The previous access training. We were clearly recognised as Government set up the policy of having the being a leading State when it came to MSB to control all ministerial expenses. As implementing the MAATS reform agenda, everyone knows, the Minister does not touch a particularly by involving small business and credit card, does not have a card and does business in it. We are very proud of that not handle any of those expenses. All of those achievement. Not only have we based one in expenses are then given to the MSB, which Brisbane; there is also one on the Gold Coast makes the decision. I will abide by the decision and one in Cairns. That particular initiative of the MSB, as I clearly have done over my clearly demonstrates the capacity and the whole period in the Ministry. willingness of this Government to service not 1504 Questions Without Notice 7 May 1997 just the south-east corner of Queensland but way will bring training to regional and isolated also regional and provincial Queensland. areas. That literally involves packing up the I am pleased to inform the House for the materials and equipment needed to deliver a first time that only a couple of weeks ago in course, setting up at a crossroad, if it is Gladstone we launched the first part-time necessary and demanded by the local apprenticeship scheme. I wish to thank the community, delivering training to individuals honourable member for Gladstone for her and groups within local and isolated assistance in drawing to my attention the very communities and actually getting in there at good activity that was going on there in linking the coalface where people really require the the department and its activities with a very training. I was very pleased to launch that good local initiative. second unit in Gladstone two weeks ago when we launched the first part-time apprenticeship Mr T. B. Sullivan interjected. scheme. We look forward to further assisting Mr SANTORO: Fourteen students are rural communities and particularly assisting being trained in heavy engineering courses. people on farms and rural properties to access The Commissioner for Training was in training in that manner. attendance and officiated at the launch of that This Government undertook another course. We were very pleased to be able to courageous initiative when it commissioned participate. the Wiltshire report. For the first time, training I am also pleased to inform the House providers were asked to provide input on what that in terms of the flexible part-time they thought of training. Professor Wiltshire apprenticeship schemes planning is advanced went out there in a very consultative and very for a further pilot in the Mackay area—and I scientific manner and asked for their am sure that both honourable members from perceptions of the training system and how it that area will be pleased to hear that—and could be improved. I am happy to report that that discussion is also occurring in the Pine hundreds of the over 800 training providers in Rivers, the Gold Coast and the Toowoomba Queensland participated in that exercise. They areas for similar launches and similar activities. have provided much feedback to the I look forward to keeping all members—Labor, Government in terms of the reforms to the Liberal, National Party, whoever—informed of training system of Queensland which are to be what we are doing in that regard. facilitated by legislation. Although some of the We have also established and launched a people involved were a bit uncomfortable with Small Business Training Council. I will not take the perceptions that were gathered by up the time of the House by repeating what I Professor Wiltshire, I daresay that the debate said early last week. Nevertheless, the Small that has taken place is a constructive one that Business Training Council is one of the real will go a long way towards enhancing the achievements of this Government in terms of quality of the reforms, particularly the training. When one examines the statistics legislative reforms, that this Government will that the Labor Party left behind for us, one be introducing. sees that 73% of small businesses in There are many other things that I could Queensland just do not participate in either talk about, but perhaps I will leave them for formal or informal training. Again taking another time. The initiatives that I have belatedly the inane interjection by the outlined prove that we have a training reform honourable member for Chermside—that is agenda that puts to shame anything that the legacy that his Government, the Labor members opposite put in place. Government, left behind for us: a total lack of a training culture; a small-business sector that was utterly disengaged in terms of the Expenditure of Minister for Families, development of the training agenda. Youth and Community Care Mr T. B. Sullivan: They said it's got Mr T. B. SULLIVAN: I refer the worse in the last 12 months. Minister for Families, Youth and Community Care to his previous answer and to the fact Mr SANTORO: I do not know how that on the same evening, 26 September, he people like the honourable member for and Wendy Howard had dinner for two at Chermside can come into this place and knock Ryans on the Park restaurant directly opposite the record of achievement of this Government. his office in George Street where he charged We can talk about other flexible ways of the bill to his media adviser's official credit delivering training. Another initiative by this card—a table of which I copy—and claimed Government was the launch of the second that he was meeting to discuss Budget mobile training unit, which in a very flexible Estimates, and I ask—— 7 May 1997 Questions Without Notice 1505

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I think the that he has private use of either his member meant "a copy of which I table", not chauffeur or electorate vehicle for "a table of which I copy". whatever purpose he wishes." Mr T. B. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr So I think it is appropriate that we ask a Speaker. I was just seeing if you were alert this question of the Deputy Leader of the morning. I ask the Minister: does his ministerial Opposition: what further concessions was he office not have a meeting room in which such seeking in respect of the use of Government discussions can occur, or has he learned vehicles? But it goes on a bit. Tony McGrady, nothing from criticism of the Auditor-General in the member for Mount Isa, thought that the 1990 about his spending on entertainment as guidelines on a number of ministerial Speaker, which averaged $1,800 a week over expenditure items were too tight, but in nine months? particular he led the charge against the former Mr LINGARD: I am determined not to Premier for the reintroduction of Ministers' get down in the gutter. What I say, as I have American Express cards. In a letter to the then said before, is that MSB now controls all of Treasurer, Mr De Lacy, on 2 April 1993, the these accounts. These accounts are not member for Mount Isa, as Minister for Mines touched by the Ministers. The Minister does and Energy, said— not even put the card forward. This is all done "I also believe that it may be time to by MSB. If MSB has any concerns, it always review the decision not to provide comes back to us. MSB has not come back. Ministers with official credit cards." Therefore, as far as I am concerned, I was Then there was another letter from MSB entitled to the payment that was made. to another Minister in the Goss Labor Government dated 23 June 1994 regarding Expenditure by Labor Ministers the use of toll cards in respect of the Gateway Bridge. It appeared as though this enterprising Mr WOOLMER: I ask the Premier: can Minister was seeking advice as to whether he he advise the House of difficulties experienced could use his Gateway Bridge card on by former Labor Cabinet Ministers in occasions when he was towing either a trailer complying with expenditure guidelines? or a caravan. To take the House back to what Mr BORBIDGE: I thank the honourable this particular Minister said, the response member for the opportunity to put a bit of was— balance back into what I think has been a "As you would be aware Toll Cards scurrilous and sleazy question time (eg. Gateway Bridge Cards) are issued to perpetrated by the Leader of the Opposition Ministers for use in both the chauffeur yesterday. I am advised—and I have done a driven vehicle as well as the electorate considerable amount of work on this, and I vehicle. have only some of the material with me today but it can be provided if necessary—that These cards are issued as Official during the Goss Government's reign in 1993 a Specialised Credit Cards in accordance number of Ministers lodged complaints about with section 5.6 of the Guidelines for the the accountability issues being put in place by Financial Management of the Office of the Ministerial Support Unit. A memo was the Minister and may be utilised to incur actually prepared by the MSU which dealt with expenditure for official purposes only." the complaints in respect of Ministers of the The letter goes on. I am not going to descend then Labor Government. I will not go through to the same level as honourable members them all now, but I might touch on just a opposite. I also have correspondence in couple. The interesting ones were that both respect of a senior staff member in the the current Deputy Leader of the Opposition previous Government who claimed in excess and the former member for Springwood raised of $1,000 for telephone calls to his private concerns in relation to the use of official motor number when overseas for which he already vehicles. received reimbursement from the Ministerial In fact, in this particular memo there was Services Branch. reference to the fact that the current Deputy I think that the Leader of the Opposition Leader of the Opposition saw the guidelines and the Deputy Leader of the Opposition as being "too rigid". In response, the MSU had should be very careful if they want to go down this to say about Mr Elder, who started this this particular track. I want to say that the debate today— guidelines that now apply to honourable "The Honourable Jim Elder would members and Ministers on this side of the appear to be under some misconception House are tighter than those that applied 1506 Questions Without Notice 7 May 1997 under the Labor Party—far tighter. For Mr PERRETT: We have not been in example, one of the first decisions that I made Government for even two years, so I suggest as Premier was that Ministers would not be to Mr Schwarten that he was still busy at issued with American Express cards. The only knocking jobs and abolishing jobs in the time that Ministers get American Express Department of Primary Industries. I am cards under this Government—unlike under delighted to take the opportunity to once the previous Labor Government—is when they again talk about what the Department of travel overseas, and those cards are Primary Industries under the Borbidge authorised for overseas use, not for use at Government is doing for the bush. In just over home. Indeed, we have recently made sure 12 months we have put back in excess of 700 that MSU and MSB come together so that we positions, which is more than was taken away have got better accountability in respect of by the previous Government. The previous expenditure, and that unit now rests within the Government had no commitment to the bush Premier's Department. at all in underpinning all those services that I want to say to honourable members are so vital to our great food and fibre opposite that the guidelines that we have put production industries in this State. in place are far stricter and far tighter than What do we hear from the Opposition those that applied under the previous spokesman? All he can do is come into this Government. I suggest to honourable place and say that we cannot provide houses. members opposite that if they want to have a I was in Emerald the other day and I was debate about ministerial and staff expenses, I approached by people who said, "Look, the am more than pleased to reciprocate and I am Government has to look at the housing more than pleased to table in this place or situation and our office accommodation anywhere else all records, all queries and all because we have eight more people here questions relating to the six years of the Labor than we had 12 months ago." I said, "That's Party in office in Queensland. great." I was able to have a look at a suggested bit of land. I came back and I talked to my director-general about the Shortage of DPI Housing in Longreach problem. Mr SCHWARTEN: I refer the Minister We are looking at those situations very for Primary Industries to an internal DPI memo closely because we realise that we need of 24 April which exposes a critical housing people out in the bush; we need houses. It is shortage for departmental staff in Longreach. not like that everywhere. There are a lot of It states— country towns where due to years and years of "Staff are being forced to rent Labor policy of knock, knock, knock the bush, privately, disqualifying them from receiving the dole queues in the towns continued to increase because the Labor Government put the rental subsidies to which they would those townspeople out of business. There are be eligible if they were allocated a GEHS lots of towns out there that have a surplus of house. This situation has nullified the housing. The honourable member has picked usefulness of the remote area incentive out one centre, namely Longreach. I will name scheme." another one, Emerald, where I know there is a I table this memo, and I ask: how can the problem. I have been to Longreach and I Minister claim to be serious about expanding have been to Emerald just recently. I have services in the bush when his own department talked to the powers that be about the is so hopeless that it cannot provide even problem and we are looking at alleviating that enough housing to attract applicants to DPI situation as best we can. This Government will positions based in Longreach? not walk away from the fact that once again Mr PERRETT: I thank the honourable we have a virile, happy lot of workers out member for Rockhampton for his question. I there—a virile department of happy workers. think it says a lot about the former Mr Veivers: You're going to need more Government's housing policy when I houses, Trevor. continually go around Queensland and I find Mr PERRETT: Let me say something: it that we are creating jobs in the Department of might be pretty virile, too. It is a good country, Primary Industries at a much faster rate than yes. I repeat: we have a virile department of we can provide those staff members with happy workers out there who are once again housing. prepared to give their best to serve the great Mr Schwarten: Two years they've been primary industries of this State. waiting. Honourable members interjected. 7 May 1997 Legal Aid Queensland Bill 1507

Mr SPEAKER: Order! We will have people in a beat area are given immediate some order in the Chamber. We have got and personalised attention, and that is not about three or four minutes to go. I would going to be end of it. The system is operating prefer not to throw someone out, but I will in many other areas in Toowoomba as well as have order for that three or four minutes. in West End in Brisbane, and it is working well. Mr PERRETT: I have been very This is going to be of advantage to those genuine in my attempt to get my message people in the Kenmore area. The experience that is gained from that can be used in other across. I can assure honourable members that parts of the city and other provincial cities. we are very concerned about the housing Once we get a policing system that actually situation in a couple of centres in particular works and does benefit the people, of course around Queensland, but I think it has been we stick with it, and that is exactly what we highlighted by the fact that this Government is intend to do. putting those people back in the bush that for six years the Labor Government was taking Mr SPEAKER: Order! The time for away. questions has now expired.

LEGAL AID QUEENSLAND BILL Police Beats Second Reading Mr HEALY: I refer the Minister for Police Resumed from 30 April (see p. 1174). and Corrective Services and Minister for Hon. M. J. FOLEY (Yeronga) Racing to the two successful police beats (11.30 a.m.): This Bill represents a spectacular currently operating in my electorate and one failure in Commonwealth/State cooperation to here in West End in Brisbane, and I ask: is the the great detriment of the battlers and the Minister setting up any additional police beats disadvantaged seeking access to justice. This in the near future? Bill is the outcome of Liberal Party deceit. It is Mr COOPER: I could start by saying the outcome of the deceit of the Liberal Party that we have a very virile Police Service, and it at the Commonwealth level in its pre-election is most certainly making sure that we provide a promise not to cut legal aid. Instead, we see a very sensitive service to those people out $5m cut in Commonwealth funding to there in the community. To answer the Queensland legal aid, which has prompted member's question—there is another police this Government to introduce this legislation beat initiative being set up for Kenmore for a for Queensland to go it alone in legal aid. This six-month trial commencing on 24 May. Again, legislation brings to an end that great era of that is just part of the State Government's cooperation that was established under State policy drive towards more community policing. and Federal Labor Governments—cooperation That police beat will cover residents in parts of designed to help the most disadvantaged of Brookfield and Kenmore Hills. our community obtain access to justice, and cooperation designed to give effect to that The Toowoomba scheme has worked, great vision for legal aid that was set out in the and worked well, although I do remind people mid seventies by people such as the late and that country policing is very similar to beat great Lionel Murphy. policing because country cops get to know the people in their regions. They have done it for The 1970s saw the establishment by the 150 years and long will it continue. We are Whitlam Government of an inquiry chaired by again getting the system of beat policing Professor Ronald Sackville into legal aid in going, getting to know people in the Australia as part of an overall study chaired by communities and vice versa—police can get to Professor Henderson into poverty in Australia. know the people and they can keep an eye on The outcome of those inquiries set out a anyone who moves into the area. Also, it is framework to enable the provision of pro-active, it is personalised and it does give assistance to disadvantaged persons and the police that problem-solving ability in involvement of legal aid in the community as conjunction with the local community. part of a vision for social justice in this nation. Sadly, this Bill represents a retreat from that Senior Constable Bob Utz has been vision—a retreat from the era of cooperation selected as the police officer and is identified designed to assist those who need legal as a "local person". This person of course will assistance most. have high visibility and will be located so that The Opposition resolutely opposes this he is very approachable by the local Bill. This Bill is ushering into the arena of legal community. Again, we want to see that those aid a great divide between Commonwealth local matters that are brought forward by local and State matters. It winds back the clock to 1508 Legal Aid Queensland Bill 7 May 1997 the bad old days when the Commonwealth than this. Such persons deserve cooperation looked after some matters and the State between Commonwealth and State looked after others. Consider, for example, the authorities. They deserve the cooperation that position of victims of domestic violence. Under existed under Labor Governments at State the regime that is contemplated by this Bill and Federal levels and which has been so and by the division of responsibility between cruelly destroyed by this squabble between Commonwealth and State, such persons will State and Federal Liberal Attorneys-General. have to run the gauntlet as to whether their remedy lies under Federal family law or under This Bill looks at legal aid within the sterile State domestic violence law. That is quite an framework of the provision of any good or unacceptable state of affairs in which to place service. It reflects the Commission of Audit's victims of domestic violence. Those people world view in being based on the purchaser should be entitled to go to a one-stop shop so provider model as if the provision of legal that they can seek remedies for their legal assistance were no more than the provision of problems. Instead, this squabble between any other good or service. It treats legal aid as State and Federal Liberal Attorneys-General if it were a mere product to be dispensed in has resulted in the situation in which they face accordance with certain guidelines. However, uncertainty; they face a division on the arid the mission of legal aid in our society is far distinction between Commonwealth and State broader than that. matters. I urge honourable members to go back to This arid distinction between the 1975 report of Professor Ronald Sackville Commonwealth and State matters affects a concerning law and poverty in Australia and, in wide range of groups. Consider, for example, particular, concerning legal aid. Professor persons with consumer problems. They find Sackville quoted in that report from the themselves in the position where they may lectures of an eminent English jurist, Sir Leslie have to determine whether their remedy lies, Scarman, who wrote of the new dimension of for example, under Commonwealth trade English law. He wrote that social justice, as our practices legislation or State fair trading society now understands the term, requires legislation. Depending upon the answer to that more than that the law simply provide a question, they can approach either framework of freedom in which men and Commonwealth or State authorities in relation women may work out their destinies; it requires to obtaining relief. What a disappointing state that the law be loaded in favour of the weak of affairs. Why has it happened? It has and exposed and provide them with access to happened because the Liberal Party, aided tribunals and other instrumentalities which can and abetted by the National Party, has offer them positive assistance. perpetrated a deceit upon the Australian The vision that Lord Scarman had of the people. It went to the Australian people at the law in modern society is nowhere to be found national level promising to keep legal aid in this Bill. The vision of the law as working services, but instead we see an attack positively to achieve justice both for the mounted on legal aid services. We see the individual and in terms of social justice is an Attorney-General of the Commonwealth important goal from which we should not describing the legal aid system as a Rolls resile. The framework that this Bill offers is a Royce system. It may be a long time since Mr framework of Queensland as a go-it-alone Williams, QC, was involved in the practice of provider of legal aid. True it be that the legal aid work, but practitioners and clients framework allows for the State to enter into may well assure him that it is far from a Rolls agreements so that the Legal Aid Board and Royce system; it is a system that strains under Legal Aid Queensland can arrange for the the weight of the responsibility which it bears provision of services in respect of to provide assistance to persons in their hour Commonwealth matters, but there is no of need. guarantee that the Queensland legal aid The persons of whom I speak are those authorities will be the persons who carry out who face criminal charges before our courts the work for the Commonwealth in respect of and have their liberty placed in jeopardy; those Commonwealth matters. It is worth exploding who seek the assistance of the Family Court to the myth surrounding this arid distinction resolve disputes affecting the welfare of their between Commonwealth and State matters. children or affecting the property and Previously the Commonwealth accepted maintenance of their families; and those who responsibility in respect of a class of have civil problems and need to approach the Commonwealth persons including veterans, courts of the land to obtain remedies from persons in receipt of social security benefits those courts. Such persons deserve better and so on. This covered a broad range of 7 May 1997 Legal Aid Queensland Bill 1509 matters and persons and indicated the establishing its various community-run breadth of Commonwealth responsibility. agencies, such as the Black Community Even during the time of the Federal Labor Health Service and the Aboriginal and Islander Government, the Labor Government in Community Housing Service, it was the Queensland was far from content with the slice Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders Legal of the Budget cake allotted to Queensland. Services that was first established, for any Indeed, following the report of the Criminal group of persons who are disadvantaged Justice Commission on the adequacy of legal before the law must do something to achieve aid funding, the Queensland Government justice. Without the protection from the made vigorous representations to the unreasonable police harassment, without Commonwealth Labor Government to protection from the unjust intrusion of the increase Queensland's share. That share was organs of the State in the form of prisons and based on an outdated formula that failed to other places of detention, it is very difficult for have significant regard to the population any disadvantaged group of persons to growth of Queensland, not to mention the achieve progress. That experience taught me great needs arising from the vastness of our the great importance of legal aid. It also State and from the needs of the regions. Even taught me the importance of having those under the cooperative regime that existed people who are in receipt of legal aid having a between Commonwealth and State Labor say in its provision. It is most important that Governments, there was no room for legal aid be seen as connected with the complacency. The destruction of legal aid, community, as responsive to the needs of the which is occurring under the Liberal Party at community and as empathetic to the needs the national and State level, is truly disturbing and voice of those persons who require legal for anyone who cares about the principles of assistance. access to justice. In the previous legislation, the The Commonwealth Attorney-General composition of the Legal Aid Commission should be roundly condemned on all sides of made specific provision for the representation this debate. The Commonwealth Attorney- of legally assisted persons. That General's cut of Commonwealth contributions representation is quite important. It is to legal aid throughout Australia is a disgrace. important because legal aid is not just about To have had such a destructive impact during the delivery of a product or service; it is about the course of his holding of that high office is a being responsive to the needs of the very poor legacy for this Commonwealth disadvantaged, the battling families who look Attorney-General to leave the system of law in to the law for remedies in their hour of need this nation. Instead of arguing the case for the and hardship. The lack in this Legal Aid importance of legal aid, both for individuals Queensland Bill of any representation of and for community legal centres, the consumers—of legally assisted persons—is Commonwealth Attorney has sought to argue one of the great flaws in the Bill. The the Treasury line and to dress it up as some argument advanced by the Government is form of fiscal reform. That attempt has been a that it is replacing a commission that had the very disappointing one. One would have representation of a number of different interest thought that the Commonwealth Attorney- groups with a small board designed to achieve General would have espoused higher ideals greater corporate efficiency and to move from and would have not allowed himself to a representational model to what it sees as a denigrate the importance of the legal aid modern management model of a corporate system by describing it as a Rolls Royce structure that is tight and where the members system. of the board share a commitment to common corporate goals. Some 23 years ago, I commenced work as a social worker with the Aboriginal and That debate between a representational Torres Strait Islanders Legal Service. I worked model and a small model for a corporate in that community legal setting over board is not an easy or obvious debate. There approximately four years. I observed there the are many circumstances in which it may be tremendous importance of providing legal wise to have a small group of persons assistance to people in need. At that time, the constituting a corporate structure without great historian Charles Rowley, in speaking of necessarily each of those persons the destruction of Aboriginal society, observed representing a constituency in the traditional that he believed that Aboriginal people had a sense. The experience of the Labor greater need of lawyers than they had of Government in office demonstrated that it was welfare workers. It was significant, I believe, desirable in some cases to move towards that that when the Aboriginal community set about model. However, I do not believe that it is wise 1510 Legal Aid Queensland Bill 7 May 1997 to move to that model in the case of legal aid having obtained advice from a community because legal aid depends for its success legal centre, many ordinary working people upon having its roots in the community, which with families to support find themselves in a is served by legal aid, in the legal profession, position where they simply cannot afford to which carries out the provision of legal take legal action. So they simply accept their services, and in the broad community at large. lot, and that is very unfortunate. In other words, legal aid is something more than just the delivery of a product or service. That is why it is important that the debate on legal aid take place within a broad context When one looks at the involvement of the of reform to the legal profession, the legal profession in assisting persons it, like any establishment of a national market for legal profession, has a duty to act at an ethical services, reform to the court system so as to standard higher than that of the mere make courts more accessible, reforms to the commercial marketplace. Part and parcel of process of litigation, such as the Labor the responsibility of being a member of a Government attempted through the Litigation profession is that one has certain ethical Reform Commission so as to ensure that the duties towards those in need. That spirit of handling of cases by our courts is done more working pro bono publico—for the public speedily and more cheaply, and that the legal good—is a spirit that needs to be nurtured and aid debate occurs within a framework of engendered. Indeed, in the United States of providing a broad range of social supports to America where legal aid systems are not as those sections of our community that have extensive, the existence of a more been most profoundly disrupted by the great philanthropic corporate culture goes hand in economic changes that have swept through hand with a high level of commitment among our nation over the past two decades. many legal firms to pro bono work. That is important and it needs to be encouraged and There is no doubt that many ordinary supported within the overall framework of Australians find themselves unable to afford provision of assistance to persons in need of the cost of legal services. For them the law is a legal aid. remote thing that does not offer them practical It would be a sad day if the legal relief for the legal problems that they face. profession were to feel estranged from legal That is why the former Labor Government set aid to the point at which it regarded its duty up the alternative dispute resolution centres, merely as providing a service in the to provide alternatives to the traditional means commercial marketplace and extending no of dispute resolution through the courts in a further on the grounds that the State way that could hopefully be more user friendly instrumentality providing legal aid would look and certainly less costly to the ordinary citizen. after all of those persons with unmet legal I am disappointed that the corporate structure need or without the resources to have legal contemplated in this Legal Aid Board cuts assistance. I think that that would be an itself off from the broad efforts to provide unfortunate state of affairs. We need to assistance by way of social support to those in support and encourage a spirit of commitment need and relies instead upon a heavy to pro bono work on the part of the legal emphasis on the commercial marketplace. profession. The concern expressed by the Bar The Bill provides that a person is not Association and the Law Society about the eligible to be appointed by the Governor in lack of representation in the corporate Council unless the person has knowledge or structure contemplated in this Bill needs to be experience in commerce, economics, finance, interpreted not simply as self-interest but as management or providing legal services. One part of a deeper concern that the role of the could be forgiven for thinking that the last profession includes a social responsibility phrase "or providing legal services" is almost towards those who have needs but who do an afterthought and that the clear emphasis not have the resources to pay for legal that comes through the legislation is that of services. the corporate commercial world—seeking All honourable members would be familiar people with knowledge or experience in with the experience of constituents coming to commerce, economics, finance or their electorate offices with a legal problem but management. The Bill represents a triumph of who simply cannot afford to pay for legal managerialism over social justice. It represents services. We have all had the experience of a triumph of Queensland isolationism over meeting people who have a grievance that genuine Commonwealth-State cooperation. requires some legal action to be taken. Those things are to the great detriment of Members can refer them to solicitors or, ordinary people seeking access to justice indeed, to community legal centres. However, through our system of law. 7 May 1997 Legal Aid Queensland Bill 1511

I foreshadow that the Labor Opposition committee identified that the current Bill will be moving amendments to seek to provides that the board may— ameliorate some of the aspects of the Bill by ". . . establish a review mechanism it ensuring the representation of legally assisted considers appropriate to review decisions persons in the constitution of the Legal Aid made by Legal Aid about legal Board. As I indicated to the House, my assistance." experience of a number of years working with the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders That should be changed to a mandatory Legal Services drove home to me the great provision, as the all-party Scrutiny of importance of ensuring that a community Legislation Committee has foreshadowed. It which is in receipt of legal assistance should has just been drawn to my attention that an itself have a say in the management of the amendment has been circulated in the name provision of those services. of the Attorney-General which seems to For the record, I note the very fine address that very matter. It is important that contribution of Ms Stephanie Belfrage, the the Parliament be assured that there is a Legal Aid Commissioner who represented review mechanism for decisions made about legally assisted persons. Part of her role on the provision of legal assistance. I think all the commission was to ensure that the honourable members will have had the interests of those persons would be driven experience of constituents who have been home when the hard decisions about knocked back for legal aid approaching them. managing budgets had to be made. At the It is very important that they have the chance end of the day, there is no worth in to put their case as to why they should receive establishing these structures unless they can legal assistance and have that case provide real assistance to those who need it. considered by an independent review mechanism. I also foreshadow a return to the principle which operated under the previous legislation The Bill has been brought on with what I where legally assisted persons could exercise suggest is a false sense of urgency. It is true a choice about the solicitors whom they that the Commonwealth/State agreement approach, certainly in civil and family matters if expires on 1 July. That marks the end of the not in areas of prescribed crime. Indeed, it is a period of agreement arrived at by the little difficult to understand why the current Commonwealth and State Labor Government, which talks so often about Governments and it is the justification for freedom of choice, is moving away from the bringing the Bill on in order to establish principle of the solicitor of one's choice. One Queensland's go-it-alone Legal Aid Board prior would think that that would be an important to the expiry of that agreement. However, I aspect of providing a quality system of legal ask the House, and the Attorney-General in aid for people in need. What is the reason that particular: where is the legal impediment in the Government is moving away from the continuing with the existing legislation? What, principle of solicitor of choice? I ask the in law, prevents the continuation of a structure Attorney-General to offer some explanation of in the Legal Aid Commission such as that that to the Chamber in his reply to this second- contemplated in the current Act? reading debate. If the answer is that providing The current Act enshrines in the law of the freedom of choice costs too much money or Parliament a provision which includes provides an impediment to the efficient nominees of the Commonwealth. By management of Legal Aid Queensland's accepting the Bill, the Parliament moves away resources, I make bold to say that that is really from its commitment to that cooperative an unsatisfactory explanation. It is surprising to model. This is not something which rises and see the Liberal Party moving away from falls upon the budgetary or administrative principles of freedom of choice in this area. I arrangements that are currently causing such do ask the Attorney-General to give some difficulty for the Federal and State Liberal account to the Chamber of why the Attorneys-General. This is a matter of law. Government is moving in a direction which There is no good reason in public policy why appears to be quite contrary to the principles there should not be a body entailing of liberalism and free choice. Commonwealth and State cooperation. There I also foreshadow the Opposition's desire is no good reason why the Parliament should to amend the Bill in respect of the provision of retreat from a commitment to cooperation a review mechanism. In this respect, I note between the Governments of the Alert Digest No. 5 of the Scrutiny of Legislation Commonwealth and the State; indeed, quite Committee. At page 54 of that report, the the contrary. 1512 Legal Aid Queensland Bill 7 May 1997

The Parliament should be sending a very responsibility and where individuals would fall clear message to the Government and between two stools and not receive Parliament of the Commonwealth of Australia assistance. Nowhere is this problem more that it is desirable that there be such manifest than in the area of community legal cooperation. The Parliament should be centres. Their charter is to provide legal advice sending a message to the effect that this and assistance to persons in the community, distinction between Commonwealth and State whether it is the Women's Legal Service, the matters is an arid distinction dreamed up by Caxton Legal Centre, the Townsville some Commonwealth bureaucrat to save Community Legal Centre or a range of other money, rather than by anyone deeply community legal centres throughout the State. committed to the principles of justice. We Their mission is to reach out into those areas should not easily let go of the cooperation of unmet legal need, to provide a spur to the which exists in the legislation between legal system and to be a place to which Commonwealth and State authorities. persons who are otherwise unable to get We have seen the sad example of the access to legal advice and assistance can go. destruction of cooperation in the Anti- I know from my own experience that Discrimination Commission. Again, that was these community legal centres are very the result of the failure of Attorney-General concerned about the ongoing squabbling Beanland in Queensland and Attorney- between State and Federal authorities. General Williams in the Commonwealth to Instead of the centres operating under a reach agreement about a one-stop shop for system in which their funding was guaranteed, human rights matters. We have seen the they are now subject to the vagaries of two absurd position whereby persons who have a different budgetary processes, with each grievance under Commonwealth human rights Government pointing the finger at the other law now have to take their case up in Sydney. instead of arriving at a common cause to People in Queensland are obliged to rely upon express rock solid support for the vital work the State's administration of the Anti- carried out by community legal centres. This Discrimination Act, without that cooperation arid distinction between Commonwealth and between those administering that Act and the State matters is a distinction which simply Commonwealth authorities administering the does not gel with the day-to-day experience of Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Act, the those in community legal centres who have to Sex Discrimination Act and the Racial advise members of the public on a wide range Discrimination Act of the Commonwealth. of matters that come within both That is a sad state of affairs, because Commonwealth and State jurisdiction or on people who are the victims of discrimination areas about which mixed questions of State should be able to go to a one-stop shop. They and Commonwealth law are involved. That is should be entitled to expect that their elected but one example of the damage that flows representatives in State and Federal from this historic breakdown in cooperation. Governments can achieve a cooperation That is one of the good reasons why we designed to ensure that the best interests of should insist that the Parliament of justice will be served and that they are catered Queensland adhere to the cooperative model for and not shunted between State and contemplated in the previous legal aid Commonwealth instrumentalities. The legislation, which finds its historical origins in potential for passing the buck is obvious when the vision for legal aid in Australia set out in one has this division between Commonwealth Professor Sackville's 1975 report, and State authorities. If we are genuinely commissioned as it was by the Whitlam Labor committed to being client centred in the Government in the 1970s. That vision of a provision of services, we should insist that society in which the provision of legal services these two Attorneys-General—indeed, that could help people from all walks of life to these two Governments at State and achieve justice is one which is as relevant Commonwealth level—be locked in a room today as it ever was. Our society is until such time as they have secured experiencing the winds of economic change to agreement in the interests of the clients of an extent that previous generations would not human rights administration and legal aid. have dreamed possible. When a society such It is disturbing to see that this as ours is exposed to the economic pressures Government is not up to the job of securing of the international globalised marketplace, that agreement. It is deeply disturbing to see the pressures upon family life and the needs the clock being wound back to the bad old that arise are very considerable. In that days where there was this division between climate, it is important that one ensures that Commonwealth and State areas of there is proper access to justice. 7 May 1997 Legal Aid Queensland Bill 1513

In recent months, we have seen an important spirit of social reform and deprives it outburst of the arrogance, hatred and bigotry of connections with those whom the system is peddled by bodies such as the One Nation designed to serve and those who work in that Party, which plays on the discontent of system. For those reasons, it runs a very grave ordinary working people to find responses that risk of being out of touch with the needs of are racially discriminatory, prejudiced and those to be served and the needs of the bigoted. Against that background of bigotry, it workers who provide legal services, however is all the more important that in this nation we expert the appointees may be in their areas of have a framework of human rights commerce, economics, finance and administration and a framework of legal aid management. administration which reaffirms the commitment to achieving justice for all Australians and the This is one of those moments in the vision of a society that is based on the history of the Parliament when we should say concepts of social justice so eloquently to the Government that we do not accept that outlined by Lord Scarman in his lectures on it should wind the clock back on much that has the new dimension of English law and so been achieved in getting cooperation between carefully set out by Professor Sackville and different levels of government. It is one of others in the work in the 1970s. those moments when we should say to the Government of the day that we will not tolerate Achieving these lofty goals is not always these retrograde steps being introduced as a easy. The experience of Governments is all result of Liberal Party deception of this nation. too often one in which the achievement of We should say that legal aid has not achieved important social reforms takes time and is a all that its vision had hoped for it in the 1970s. slow process. However, it is important that We should concede that the heroic vision of there be an ongoing commitment to those Lionel Murphy has not been achieved. We great goals. It is important that we not allow should concede that the ordinary working our decision makers to fall back into the bad family finds it difficult, if not impossible, to pay old habits, and that is what this legislation the cost of legal services, and for all of those does. By setting up a framework for reasons we should redouble our efforts and Queensland to go it alone in legal aid, we fall redouble our commitment to find ways and back into the bad old habits of dividing means of providing better legal aid, of responsibility and forcing legally assisted reforming our systems of courts and of persons to fit themselves into a pigeon hole alternative dispute resolutions so that we can with a Commonwealth or a State label on it. achieve the goal of access to justice in a way That is not consistent with a deep commitment much better than is being done. to the best interests of legally assisted persons, and it should be resisted by all in this This Bill proceeds on the basis that the Chamber. provision of legal services, and in particular The Legal Aid Commission of legal aid, can be achieved adequately through Queensland has served the State well. It has the purchaser/provider model with all its aridity served the State well through encouraging the and without its links into the community and cooperation of the legal profession and into the professions. I believe for those through including in its deliberations the voices reasons it is misconceived. I believe that the speaking up on behalf of those in need of interests of those most in need of legal aid legal assistance. It is a retrograde step, I would be best served by this House roundly believe, that we are moving back to a rejecting this Bill. corporate model in the provision of legal aid Mr CAMPBELL (Bundaberg) which does not appear to be touched by the (12.25 p.m.): Our spokesman has very ably lofty goals of social justice which inspired the outlined our concerns with the new structure legal aid system in this nation over the past proposed by the Bill and has also highlighted two decades. one of the concerns that we have as I urge the Attorney to think again. I am members. Probably the most emotionally aware that the Attorney wants to have this draining work that we undertake for our legislation in place prior to the expiry of the constituents involves attempting to obtain Commonwealth/State agreement on 1 July legal aid on their behalf. We often attempt to this year, but I make this point: this legislation facilitate fairness and equity of justice through not only changes the involvement of the legal system for our constituents. The Commonwealth and State authorities in the battlers, the insolvent, the unemployed and provision of legal aid; it also changes the the sick quite often need to be protected and culture and composition of the governing body given their day in court, and that can be of legal aid in a way which deprives it of an achieved only through legal aid. 1514 Legal Aid Queensland Bill 7 May 1997

The concerns that I hold about legal aid advice from very good specialists that she has relate not only to its structure but also its a very good case for negligence, she has no funding. Even if we increase the amount of way in the world of getting help to take some funding available for legal aid in accordance action in this case. It concerns me that the sick with the CPI, it will not reach the sick, the and those who have been hurt by the system unemployed and the disadvantaged. I will are going to have fewer and fewer resources outline why. The Attorney-General has taken provided to them through legal aid. That is great pride in providing tougher sentences for what will happen. We can change a structure criminals. To ensure that their rights are but if more and more of the funds go into the protected, they have priority when it comes to criminal side of things—and they deserve it; obtaining legal aid funding. The Public they have to have it to make certain they are Defender will always be available to represent treated properly—there will be less and less for them. I am concerned that with the advent of the people who I consider have been hurt. the tougher sentences criminals will not plea People have actually got very little chance bargain; they will demand their day in court of getting legal aid in civil cases. The legal aid because under the present system they have people will just say, "We are sorry. There are nothing to lose. They might as well fight all the no funds. They are all tied up." I have known way and appeal all the way, and that will divert the funding that would otherwise be available people who have entered into contracts or partnerships and things like that with those to assist many of our constituents. I am very whom I call the rich and powerful and they concerned that less and less funding is have not been able to take their matter one becoming available to help ordinary people step; they have not been able even to get to fight for their rights in the family law and civil court to have their say when they have been jurisdictions. told, "Yes, you have got a very good case; It is the battlers who under the legal you have been very poorly treated. The other system are currently being broken by the rich person has done a real con on you, but we and powerful. The rich can afford to have their are sorry there is no money." day in court and will always break the underprivileged and less privileged in our With regard to the Bundaberg office—I society. I am concerned that under the new, have to say that the way its people work for tougher sentencing provisions less legal aid getting justice in this area is beyond the call of funding will be available for the run-of-the-mill duty. They are very dedicated public servants, cases with which members are often involved. but we can cannot keep on asking people to For example, family law is one area in which I do more and more with less and less. That is have seen incredible anger on the part of what is happening. Now less funds are being people who believe that they have not had provided for those areas. As I said, helping their fair say. Quite often legal aid finances those people get their day in court is probably only one side of the dispute. That is extremely one of the most draining aspects of our work unfair and inequitable. I have seen cases in for constituents. The deficiencies that have which the wife can secure legal aid funding been highlighted by our spokesperson today and obtain various orders, but the other party indicate that those people are going to be is broken financially by fighting those actions. even more disadvantaged. The reverse is also true. I have seen cases in I believe all sides—husbands and wives in which the husband has financially ruined his the Family Court, and even children—deserve former wife. I believe that guidelines should be to have their rights protected. The battlers, the formulated to ensure that both sides have unemployed, the insolvent and the sick their day in court and are fairly treated. deserve their fair go. It concerns me that, in In many cases I know that those who I many cases, they are missing out more and may want to help will have no chance of more simply because more funds are being obtaining legal aid. I will highlight one such provided in criminal areas because of the case. A woman named Josie who approached tougher sentences that have been legislated me had suffered quite horrendously through for here. When looking at this legislation, we poor medical procedures. She underwent an have very serious reservations. I am operation but neither she nor her medical concerned that there is really a greater need practitioner were told that just under a metre for funding to protect the interests of the and a half of her bowel was taken out. Fancy ordinary person, the ordinary Queenslander, her medical practitioner not being advised of so that they can have their day in court, which something as important as that! will ensure fairness and equity for all. After three or four years of trying to get Ms SPENCE (Mount Gravatt) support and help, and even after getting (12.33 p.m.): It seems to me that the negative 7 May 1997 Legal Aid Queensland Bill 1515 impacts of this Bill will hurt women the most. the Commonwealth fair practices legislation or The previous speaker, the member for the State fair trading legislation. That is just Bundaberg, mentioned that one of the one example. Another example of course is aspects of this Bill and the trend in legal aid at women or indeed males who want to pursue the moment is that criminal matters are taking State or Federal legislation in family matters precedence over civil matters. I think he is involving domestic violence. There are many right. Criminal matters, which generally involve more examples of how this separation of legal males, are chewing up the bulk of the legal aid services is going to affect the quality of service funding whereas civil matters, which generally that is owed to the people of Queensland who involve women and particularly women who want to pursue legal aid. are concerned with domestic violence issues, Another victim of the squabbles between are being denied their fair share of legal aid. the Federal and State Attorneys-General over That is one of the consequences of what is the funding of legal aid are the community happening in legal aid at the moment. I agree legal services. They are concerned about their with the member for Bundaberg on that. ongoing funding. So concerned in fact are I also think that this Bill must be opposed they that various petitions are circulating because it represents an attack on the legal throughout the State right now where people aid services. It is about downsizing. It is about are gathering signatures to protest against the making legal aid services more difficult to possible funding cuts to community legal access in this State. For all those reasons, the services. I would like to mention a legal service Opposition will be opposing the Bill today. which I have a fair bit to do with, that is the Let us look at how this came about, why Women's Legal Service which is located at we had to have this new legal aid Bill before Annerley in Brisbane. I recently went to the us today. This came about because the opening of its new premises in Annerley Road. Commonwealth and State Attorneys-General At that opening I really learnt about the facts had a squabble about funding—about money. of that woman's legal service. It has over 200 Both the Liberal State Attorney-General and solicitors who give of their time freely to give the Commonwealth Liberal Attorney-General out legal advice to the women of this State. could not agree on a funding mix and, These community legal services, such as therefore, the State Attorney-General decided Women's Legal Service, already operate on that Queensland would go its separate way such a very low-cost and efficient budget that and no longer cooperate with the Federal really to contemplate any further cutbacks to Government on funding legal aid services and, that Budget is a cruel thing to do to the people thus, we have the Bill before us today. So of this State who cannot access normal legal basically, we have seen a squabble between services. I know as a member of Parliament two men who are of the same political party, that I am often sending my constituents to who one would think would want to cooperate places like the Women's Legal Service or the in matters as important as legal aid, but who Caxton Street Legal Service or other legal cannot agree—they cannot come to an services for the legal advice that they need. I understanding on a funding mix—and who do that because they come into my office both decided to take their bats and balls and expecting that I am going to be a solicitor and play their own game with legal aid. The people provide them with the proper advice. Obviously who will suffer from this squabble are the I am not and I cannot do that. But I am very consumers in Queensland who need to pleased that these community legal services access legal aid. That is what Ministers forget exist so that they can get the kind of legal when they are trying to play these games of advice they need free of charge from solicitors brinkmanship with their Federal or State who are donating their time for that purpose. colleagues, that the real sufferers out there Another reason to oppose this legislation are the little people, the people who do not today is the issue of the composition of the have sufficient funds or sufficient political or board of the new Legal Aid Queensland which economic clout to make a difference and who the Minister is proposing in this Bill. The will become the victims of these boys' Minister has reduced the number of people squabbles. who will serve on this board; it will now be a The shadow Attorney-General mentioned small group of people who are making the two ways in which consumers are going to be decisions about Legal Aid Queensland. I have disadvantaged by the separation of State and a problem with the kind of corporate structure Federal legal aid services. One is a consumer that the Minister is proposing in the Bill today. I area which involves, say, a consumer who think that he actually needs a larger board wants legal aid but is not sure whether the administering legal aid, that he does not need matter should be taken or prosecuted under a small group of legal people making all the 1516 Legal Aid Queensland Bill 7 May 1997 decisions about such an important community Let me advise the House of exactly what service as legal aid. He certainly does need happened during that particular time when some consumer representation on this board. members of my department were here for an We had this discussion yesterday about the Estimates committee hearing and, at the end need for consumer representation on boards of that hearing, had drinks. Certainly, my to do with legal complaints or to do with legal adviser paid that account and put the account aid. to MSB, but MSB returned that account There are a lot of consumer organisations because, as they stated—and correctly in this State and if the Minister would take time so—that should not be paid for by MSB. to meet with these people, he would Certainly from there the adviser went to the understand that for himself. But, fortunately, department and asked the department. The the shadow Attorney-General and I have met department also returned it and said no, that with many of these consumer organisations amount could not be paid by the department. and I can tell honourable members that they So the adviser paid the whole account of are earnest, vigorous and quite $136.50. So it is absolutely false, and a knowledgeable in their desire to participate in misrepresentation on the part of the shadow the legal system even though they are not Minister, to try to indicate that that account legal people themselves. However, they do was paid for by the department. That is why I want to play a watchdog role over the legal tabled the cheque when I noticed the shadow services in this State, they do want to have Minister returning to the Chamber. The their say and they would want some sort of shadow Minister has now been challenging participation on a board such as this. and saying, "Let's see whether these Ministers Therefore, I believe that it is short-sighted of are doing exactly what the other Ministers and the Minister to downsize the board and leave previous Ministers did." As I have said off the consumer representation aspect. previously, in the past this type of account was not returned by MSB. Certainly, previous As all members would know, legal aid is Ministers have done similar things. about a community service; it is about providing services out there in the community. Let me table, as soon as I finish, an There must be consumer representatives, or account from Mr Mackenroth, the former at least workers who are working in the Minister for Housing, Local Government and community in the provision of legal aid, serving Planning, for $208.75. At the end of his on the board so that they can bring that Estimates committee hearing, the Minister had coalface perspective to the decision making all his departmental people drinking. Let me on the board. Therefore, I ask the Attorney- tell honourable members what they drank. General to consider our amendments to add They drank 33 rum and cokes, three half consumers representatives to the board, rums, Johnny Walker Red—seven of them. These details were accessed through FOI. The because I believe that that will improve the Minister put a suppression order on this constitution of the board of Legal Aid particular account, because this account was Queensland. I believe that is the ultimate paid for by the department. Therefore, I objective of all members in this Chamber. challenge the shadow Minister. I also Debate, on motion of Mr FitzGerald, challenge Mr Mackenroth, as a previous adjourned. Minister, to say whether he—as my adviser has done—paid the $208.75, because clearly from FOI it appears that that was paid by the MINISTERIAL STATEMENT department. Therefore, I say to the shadow Expenditure of Minister for Families, Minister: at least under this particular Youth and Community Care Government, when something has been presented which should not be paid, it has Hon. K. R. LINGARD (Beaudesert— been returned, and my adviser paid the whole Minister for Families, Youth and Community amount of $136.50. Care) (12.41 p.m.), by leave: In this House this morning, the shadow Minister for Families, Ms Bligh: Good. Youth and Community Care made certain Mr LINGARD: The member says, allegations about an adviser of mine putting a "Good." Of course it is good. But what has she bill for drinks through to a department. This is done to that adviser? She has got that adviser utterly untrue. It is absolutely false. To show on TV. She has spread the name of that exactly what happened, I table a cheque from adviser around the whole countryside. She that adviser showing that the adviser paid the paid that $136.50 out of her own account. So whole account of $136.50. I table that my adviser paid for all those departmental particular sheet. people. Yet the member sits there and says, 7 May 1997 Legal Aid Queensland Bill 1517

"Good." I hope it is good enough for her to go constantly on the receiving end of work from out to the media and say that she has made a the Criminal Justice Commission. I think that mistake about my female adviser, because more can be said about that when the that female adviser paid the whole account. I Estimates Committees are held next month in table the cheque for $136.50 which the this place when looking at Budget allocations. adviser paid. I also table Mr Mackenroth's There is a further contribution made to account for $208.75, which the department this matter of ensuring that people receive paid in 1995, obviously illegally. proper legal representation when one considers the amount of speculative work that LEGAL AID QUEENSLAND BILL is taken on by lawyers in this State. Fortunately, that kind of work at this point has Second Reading not reached the stage that it has in America, Resumed from 30 April (see p. 1174). where one third and one half of the expected Mr CARROLL (Mansfield) (12.45 p.m.): I award is demanded by some lawyers as their want to pay tribute to the hard work over many just deserts. In this State speculative work is years of many members of the legal not greatly encouraged. So far as I am aware, profession in not only initiating the legal aid solicitors taking on that kind of work do it with system which we presently enjoy in this State appropriate caution and without inciting but also who have continued to serve the outlandish claims from clients. people of Queensland on relatively low In paying tribute to the work of members amounts of remuneration under the legal aid of our profession over the years, I recall the scheme. I am not complaining about the pioneer days when chaps such as Dan amount of remuneration; I am just paying Hempenstall and others contributed enormous tribute to the selfless service of many in the amounts of their own time and, I suspect, their legal profession. Of course, there is the pro own money to pay staff and to see that legal bono work, which the member for Yeronga aid was provided to those who needed it. mentioned earlier. That work is effectively Some may not be aware of the history of legal unpaid work undertaken by many members of aid officers and legal aid services in this State. the profession, that is, barristers and solicitors I certainly will not take up the time of this throughout this country. Some of that work is Chamber in reading the history of that. It was enormously valuable. Some of it brings people adequately summarised in a parliamentary to the point where they can mount a claim. In research paper on the new legal aid other words, they can produce a certificate of arrangements, the Legislation Bulletin No. 7 advice saying that they have a reasonable 1997, prepared by our own Parliamentary prospect of success and then, in some cases, Library. That paper shows a history of cobbling persuade solicitors to take on the work on a together limited funds to try to assist people speculative basis. with legal aid. As a solicitor practising in Brisbane for At the moment, the amount of some years, I had first-hand experience of commitment from the Federal Government is appearing in the Magistrates Courts on the not quite clear. What is certain is that money duty solicitor roster conducted by the will be coming from the Federal Government. I Queensland Law Society and the Legal Aid want to dispel the statements made by and Office. I also appeared in the Childrens Court suggestions of members of the Opposition as a duty solicitor on a monthly roster and saw that a dreadful squabble is going on. A debate at first-hand the kind of work which many of on the proportion of Federal funding that our solicitors and often senior practitioners— should come to this State is near conclusion. It not just first-year lawyers—undertook on low may not be widely known that the amount of pay. On many occasions we were prompted to legal aid funds used on family law matters, take on additional work without pay. I am sure particularly in the south-east corner of that those solicitors—who indeed still do that Queensland but also across the State as a work today—took it on pretty readily. whole, is much higher per head of population Barristers are worthy of comment in this than in other States. That is one area where regard as well. Many of them undertake public Queensland is pressing the Federal defence work and other legal aid work on what Government for what some other States think most of us would consider subsistence rates of is a higher than fair proportion of that limited pay. It is interesting that those rates compare Federal funding. rather lowly with the rates that are paid out The opportunity has been taken in this Bill regularly by the Criminal Justice Commission to revamp and streamline the delivery of legal to a group of barristers who seem to be aid in this State and to see that appropriate 1518 Legal Aid Queensland Bill 7 May 1997 economies and efficiencies are implemented. I jokingly refer to that as their money and am pleased with the Bill. I will make a few almost demand that that money be available points about the obligation of Government to until exhausted to meet their legal costs. It is provide legal aid. I use the word "aid" carefully. my view that that money should not be In my view, legal aid is not a situation in which exhausted for those purposes, but that the Governments must underwrite or provide free solicitors practising in that field need to pay legal services to everyone who submits that attention to the fact that the money has been they cannot afford legal representation seized to try to recover the Government's themselves; it is a concept whereby some outlay in enforcing the law and in some cases people might need to receive some threshold to compensate victims of crime. legal advice to at least be pointed in the right A lot has been said over the years of the direction in defending themselves in a criminal international covenant on civil and political matter or seeking appropriate redress in a civil rights. Although it does not specifically require matter. It certainly is not a free legal service. I that Government funded legal assistance be do not see what the members who spoke from available for persons to provide their own legal the Opposition side of the Chamber were suggesting. However, I think it is a point worth representation, it seems to imply that if a making. defendant is deprived of legal assistance in a matter, particularly a serious criminal offence, The research paper that I mentioned this country might be in breach of its obligation reminds us of the fact that plenty of authorities under that covenant. I do not subscribe to that indicate that the Government has an view. obligation to provide legal aid. Some say that that is due to the Government's responsibility Mr J. H. Sullivan: We haven't signed to maintain the rule of law as well as to protect off on it, so the implication doesn't exist. fundamental legal rights. I am certain that all Mr CARROLL: It is an implication; I am of that can never be completely covered by sure it is not clear. When one considers the the Legal Aid Service; therefore, the budget way in which the money available in this State for legal aid will remain limited. There is no is carefully spread over the many hundreds of doubt that quite a few people who seek legal cases that come before the Legal Aid assistance and who enter the electorate Commission, I think we must reject that offices of this House expect that there be a implication. legal aid service that does provide all of their legal representation. I am sure that the skills of It has been mentioned that tougher many electorate officers as well as many penalties and law enforcement crackdowns will lawyers are stretched in endeavouring to bring many more people before the courts— politely but firmly explain to people the limits of there is no doubt about that—and that, public funding in that area. therefore, legal aid budgets will cop a belting and should be increased to ensure that those It has been suggested that legal aid for people are represented. I believe that the fund those unable to afford the cost of legal necessarily need not be expanded to meet representation in criminal proceedings is a civil those additional needs. People in this State and political right. Although I believe that basic are being reminded of the severity of our threshold advice and assistance is certainly a criminal laws. A very complete and extensive right, in this day and age there must be a limit program reminds people of the full strength of to that. I am aware from representing some our criminal laws. They should be warned that people charged with some serious criminal legal aid is not available for every little offence offences that some of those persons seem to with which they may be charged. I give them a regard that right as extending to using up the very stern warning that not only can they full amount of funds that might be allowed for expect firm treatment and that the rule of law their legal representation under the criminal will be applied in this State but also they may compensation legislation. There is an exception there that allows persons charged not necessarily receive legal aid to help them get out of their little problem. with serious criminal offences but whose property has been seized because it is This State Government has cracked down suspected of having been derived from some on offences about which many people have criminal activity or it is suspected as being the been complaining for some time. The raid on proceeds of crime to have access to those the sex shop south of the river last week is funds to meet the costs of legal something that many members of the public representation. It is clear to me from my have been demanding for some time. That is experience and from discussing this topic with the sort of action that this State Government other solicitors that quite a few criminals set upon taking. I mention the enormous 7 May 1997 Legal Aid Queensland Bill 1519 amount of work being done by some of the The Bill itself reads very logically. It community legal services. The member for explains to people the steps required of them Mount Gravatt paid tribute to that earlier. I and the considerations taken into account endorse those remarks. A lot has been done when they apply for legal aid. Therefore, this not only in representing people who may not Bill helps the average reader in the street to have come within the net eligibility for legal aid understand the process and what is required from the State Legal Aid Office but also in of them. Another feature of this Bill is that it helping people who just had a worry and were will allow greater managerial control by the able to drop into a nearby centre to get a Legal Aid Office in delivering legal services. hand. To her credit, my daughter is spending Even though, as I have said, this Government additional time in that service. I know from the gave extra funding, those funds are certainly reports that I receive that those lawyers spend not unlimited. We need to ensure the proper an enormous amount of time providing such management of them so that the services help. Some do that through free legal advice reach as many people as possible. In order to sessions on the radio. Those agencies have have this control, the board needs sufficient been of assistance to Governments—and I managerial and commercial experience. am sure to the previous Labor Government as Therefore, the Bill aims to have a board well as this Government—in endorsing and capable of meeting this Government's recommending legal reform. Recently I saw a expectations. Many legal firms recognise that letter from one of them recommending the generally lawyers do not make good reforms to the law of incest, which this managers and have employed private sector Government was pleased to implement in managers to manage the practice while the March this year. For some time those who lawyers get on with their profession of deal with the unfortunate problems of sexual providing detailed legal advice. Therefore, this offences against the person within the family Bill adopts a corporate model for the delivery environment had called for that expansion of of legal services. the law relating to incest. Finally, I want to draw the attention of honourable members to the six components In the last financial year, this Government of legal aid funding. The first two are increased the amount of money made Commonwealth and State Government available for legal aid in this State by $2.9m. grants; thirdly, there is statutory interest; That raised the State Government grant fourthly, there are recoverable costs; fifthly, towards those costs from $9.7m to $12.5m. client contributions; and sixthly, interest on Sitting suspended from 1 to 2.30 p.m. investments. I want to briefly make a couple of comments about two of those components. Mr CARROLL: This Bill ensures the As I said, the State Government grants were survival of legal aid. It does not involve cutting increased. That is clear evidence of this funding or cutting staff. Some of the talk Government's commitment to ensuring a very around the traps to that effect should be flatly effective and wide-reaching legal aid service. ignored. In fact, this House will remember the The matter of recoverable costs is interesting; commitment of the National/Liberal coalition the amount coming into legal aid's coffers Government, which is demonstrated in the from that source has dropped substantially. extra $2.8m or $2.9m in funding given to legal Part of the reason for that is that the Legal Aid aid in the last financial year. Commission no longer provides funding for In my view, legal aid is to be used to fund property settlement applications in the Family proper cases for disadvantaged people. I have Court or for civil matters where there is a power spent some time referring to the history of to award costs. As I said earlier, there is a legal aid. In my opinion, it should not be used commendable practice in law firms in this to run novelty cases or test cases, or for such State in that they are prepared to take legal things as anti-discrimination cases to secure in matters on spec without legal funding. On the vitro fertilisation services. In my view, that is matter of contributions from clients, that has not an appropriate expenditure of this very never been a great source of income to the limited amount of money. I can remember so Legal Aid Office because most of those many difficult cases in which single mums with people who seek assistance are without those a couple of children were chasing property funds. Over the years, I have certainly been settlements, which they richly deserved. They aware of some cases in which people have were put through all sorts of difficulties tried to secure legal aid funding when they did because of limited legal aid funds, yet these not really need it. types of novelty cases were being granted aid. Interruption. 1520 Legal Aid Queensland Bill 7 May 1997

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT and to many people, Aboriginal and non- Century Zinc Aboriginal, in and beyond the gulf. Hon. R. E. BORBIDGE (Surfers Paradise—Premier) (2.35 p.m.), by leave: I am LEGAL AID QUEENSLAND BILL pleased to inform the House that the Second Reading $1 billion-plus Century Zinc mine in the Carpentaria minerals province is now assured. Resumed from p. 1521. A short time ago Cabinet endorsed the State Mrs GAMIN (Burleigh) (2.38 p.m.): I rise Government's $30m component of the in support of this important Bill introduced by negotiated settlement with the Aboriginal the National/Liberal coalition Government. people of the gulf region, which is in addition Through no fault of its own, this Government to some $60m in various forms of benefits for was faced with decisions to make on legal aid Aboriginal people over the 20-year life of the and I am proud of the manner in which the mine. I signed the agreement after that Attorney-General and Cabinet have resolved decision of Cabinet. This means that all three them. parties, including a total of 12 native title In recent days the Opposition, through claimants, have now signed and the talkback radio and media statements, has set agreement will be put to the national Native about misinforming the public on the role of Title Tribunal arbitration panel which meets in the Queensland Government in the legal aid Mount Isa tomorrow at 10 a.m. debate, claiming that the National/Liberal While the Government cannot speak for coalition would slash legal aid funds. Members the tribunal, the likely outcome of that meeting are reminded that in its election campaign this will be that the agreement will be accepted Government promised to give extra funds to and the arbitration phase of the right-to- legal aid. Much to the Opposition's chagrin, it negotiate processes under the Native Title Act then delivered on that promise. That promise will end. The State will then get on with the job was made to the people of Queensland and of issuing valid mining leases to Century Zinc to the loyal employees of legal aid. Limited so that the company can get on with In fact, when one considers the coalition's the job. I have much criticism of the process, record on legal affairs, one comes to the but that is a matter for another day. inescapable conclusion that the conservative This project will deliver 3,000 jobs during parties are committed to justice. The coalition construction and 4,000 long-term direct and gave extra funding to legal aid; the coalition indirect jobs. It will generate 780,000 tonnes of gave extra funding to the Director of Public zinc concentrate a year, producing 450,000 Prosecutions; the coalition is increasing police tonnes of zinc metal each year, making numbers; and the coalition introduced fair but Century potentially, and most likely, the largest tough reforms to the criminal laws of the State. zinc mine in the world. Over the life of the All of that has been achieved in a little over 12 project it will generate $6 billion for the positive months of Government. side of our balance of payments. The impact On the other hand, the Labor Party, now of the development phase on Gross State sitting in Opposition, can reflect long and hard Product will be some $630m. on why it is in Opposition. Labor members are Major side effects will be a big increase in there because they did nothing. In fact, they the live cattle export trade through the port of made a deliberate choice of doing nothing. Karumba because the dredging required for One can look at the coalition's victory the transport of ore from that port will also yesterday in introducing reforms to ensure that enable larger barges to use the port more solicitors are answerable for wrongdoing. consistently than at present for the movement When in office, the ALP made a song and of cattle, which is currently limited both by the dance but, as the Attorney-General said capacity of barges and seasonal access yesterday, the ALP decided to do nothing issues. It will simply be the biggest thing to about the disciplining of solicitors. The people happen to the north west of the State ever of Queensland know the ALP's record and and will prove the catalyst for more they know our record. They know that we are development throughout the region, which acting in good faith, in good time and in good remains one of the last great prospective fashion when it comes to passing workable areas on earth. legislation on a range of important public This is obviously a happy day, and a long issues. sought after day, for a great many people who The Legal Aid Queensland Bill is a Bill to have worked to this end—from people in the assist the public and it is a Bill which ensures company, to many people in Government, the delivery of services. The Attorney-General 7 May 1997 Legal Aid Queensland Bill 1521 has stated that he will not be cutting State citizens of Queensland. I commend the Bill to funding to community legal centres, although the House. Labor would have the public believe that the Mrs CUNNINGHAM (Gladstone) Government is cutting those funds. I should (2.43 p.m.): Some of the previous speakers add that, in fact, the Government has funded have indicated that the Opposition will oppose some northern legal centres to ensure that the Bill. Can the Minister confirm or otherwise there is legal advice available on consumer that to oppose the Bill would remove legal aid affairs issues if people choose to use a from the State in total? It was my community legal centre. The community legal understanding that because of the lack of centres do some very good work and this finalisation of the negotiations with the Federal State Government is prepared to keep up its Government, the structure of legal aid in allocation of State funding. Queensland had to be reviewed and that this The Attorney-General has been working Bill was the result of that review. I would be extremely hard in negotiating with the Federal interested in the Minister's comments about Government over the whole of the legal aid the results of a lack of support for the Bill in question and it is as a result of this hard work terms of legal aid throughout the State. that Queensland will be given a sound legal Clause 12, at page 11 of the Bill, deals aid Bill. There is still a way to go on with issues to be taken into account when arrangements with the Federal Government, deciding whether an applicant needs legal but the record will clearly show that the assistance. I am concerned about this matter, Attorney-General has done all that can and because the clause lists the relevant matters should be done to protect the State of which need to be taken into account when Queensland. Under State control the Legal deciding a person's eligibility. Subclause (a) Aid Office will be independent, but it will be run talks about an applicant's assets and income, on a businesslike basis to ensure that the and that is fine. Subclause (b) refers to "the limited public funds go as far as possible. The cash amount that is, or can be made, readily National/Liberal Government learnt about available to the applicant". Subclause (e) good financial management when previously refers to "the ability of a relevant person". That in office—something Labor forgot about when wording is different from that in the Act that it was in power. One can take the workers' this Bill replaces, which was much more compensation fiasco as an example of that. specific. The definition of a "relevant person" in the Bill is a person who— Many stories and rumours have circulated about legal aid funding issues, as Labor likes "(a) usually gives the applicant financial to live off rumour and not fact. Labor rumours support; or will not come to fruition in Queensland (b) can reasonably be expected to give because the National/Liberal Government has the applicant financial support; or acted quickly to protect Queenslanders. In its (c) usually receives financial support submission to the Australian Senate Legal from the applicant." and Constitutional References Committee inquiry into legal aid, the Government made it I ask the Minister to clarify the extent of clear that Queensland wanted a cooperative the definition of a "relevant person" Take the agreement. The State still makes that point case of a dependent mature child of 18, 19 or clear and it is up to the Commonwealth to 20 years of age who is a full-time student but come to the party. The Queensland is fully supported by his or her parents. If that Government recognises the fundamental child requires legal aid and has insufficient need to cooperate and coordinate its activities assets and income so would therefore qualify with the Commonwealth in the provision of for aid, can there be significant investigation legal aid services but, as I say, the into the parents' assets, income and ability to Government has done all that it can do. pay, which is really a third-party intrusion? I ask the question because the wording in the Bill is The Bill itself gives the Commonwealth different from that contained in the original flexibility to update and enter agreements on legislation. I do not have a problem with only the services that it wants delivered on its eligible people receiving assistance. The son behalf. The Bill is written so that legal aid can or daughter of a person who earns $1m year enter innovative commercial arrangements and who could adequately obtain private legal with purchasers, for example the representation for the child if need be should Commonwealth, and to ensure that legal aid not be eligible. Although that is an extreme has greater managerial control. Overall, the Bill case, I understand that there needs to be reflects the Government's will to deliver protection in such situations. However, I would services and to ensure the legal welfare of the like some clarification on the point. 1522 Legal Aid Queensland Bill 7 May 1997

Under the conditions of approval, clause still complied with the hardship circumstances, 18 states— which is the precise reason for the existence of "Without limiting section 17, a legal aid. condition of an approval for legal Division 6, on page 19 of the Bill, refers to assistance may provide for the following— the responsibility of a legally assisted person (a) terminating the assistance;" and states that such a person is taken to be responsible for paying professional costs and I received advice from the Minister's any disbursements, including barristers' fees. I officers—who again have been very wish to have one point clarified. I have helpful—that this would include things such as received some information from the Minister's the completion of the matter or that, when the departmental officers about this matter. Page case was being assessed prior to its hearing, a 9 of the Bill sets out the objectives of Legal financial limitation be placed on the costs of Aid Queensland. The meaning of "legal the action. I have been notified of this, but I assistance" is stated as the giving of "legal want it on the record: I would hope that that service, including legal advice, free or on did not mean that a situation could arise payment of an amount that is less than the where, for whatever reason, a case became cost of giving the service". Perhaps that more complex than was anticipated, the wording is different from that in the original financial limit was reached and the person was Act. I am advised that in that context the left high and dry without the issue being wording means that a legally assisted person resolved because he or she had complied with may be asked to pay full costs if that person is clause 18(a) and had terminated assistance, subsequently in receipt of unexpected that is, had reached the limit of the funding. financial benefit, settlement in a family court or The Opposition has circulated an some other financial gain. However, that is not amendment that will be dealt with at the clear from clause 30 (2). I wonder whether any Committee stage. However, on the basis of opportunity exists for a person to be the amendment, I take it that at the moment disadvantaged inadvertently by that people receiving legal aid assistance do not subclause, in spite of the fact that it states that necessarily have the right to choose who will the services are to be provided free or at cost represent them, and I can understand that. I only. This subclause refers to professional presume that a panel of people does the costs normally payable. What protections are work. Can the Minister explain whether the there to ensure that nobody will be legal aid service would incur additional costs disadvantaged by that clause? by complying with the proposed amendment? The Bill refers to the composition of the In relation to Division 3 of the Bill, which new board, which has been reduced in deals with reviews and court number. The criteria for membership of the recommendations, I commend the Minister for new Legal Aid Board include that applicants the amendment that has been circulated. In must have knowledge or experience in the Bill, the Legal Aid Board is given a commerce, economics, finance, management discretionary power to decide whether or not to or providing legal service. I contend that that establish a review mechanism. I am sure that does not always qualify people to be the best we all hope that there would be a review representatives. However, what problem could mechanism in place so that Legal Aid be created by having a consumer Queensland applicants are able to have a representative on the board to provide a refusal reviewed. I commend the Minister for balance in the discussions? I refer to the amendment that replaces the word "may" discussions about issues before the board and with "must". also decisions to change the regulations. It is Again I have received some verbal important to have all sides of the matter advice, and I would like to see that advice on heard. the record, regarding the courts' ability to I have had the following question recommend legal assistance. Clause 22(1) of answered, but I will raise it again to highlight the Bill states that a court may recommend my concern. Division 3, on page 34 of the Bill, that a person be given legal assistance before outlines the parameters of the Attorney- appearing before the court. Clause 22(2) General's involvement with Legal Aid states that the applicant must go through the Queensland. It refers to areas where the normal processes with Legal Aid Queensland. Attorney-General may give directions. Clause I wonder where the applicant would be placed 63 (3) states that "a direction under subsection if, on the recommendation of the court, he or (1) cannot be about giving legal assistance to she applied for legal aid and Legal Aid a particular person". Again, it is my Queensland refused it, particularly if he or she understanding that classes have been set up 7 May 1997 Legal Aid Queensland Bill 1523 in the regulations that give the Minister those are views that she holds very genuinely. sufficient discretion to be involved in what is a However, let us get it straight: this Bill is before very emotive, contentious and personal area. I us today because the Federal Liberal/National would like that confirmed. When one needs Government gutted its contribution to legal legal assistance and has been refused it, one aid. The Federal Government has spoken, by generally cannot afford full cost professional its actions, as to what it considers to be the assistance. I am sure that most people would priorities of people who need legal assistance. say, "I'll go to the Government", and they That is the only reason we have this Legal Aid would then turn to the Attorney-General for Queensland Bill before us today. some assistance. However, that subclause Government members should not claim would preclude his involvement. that they do not have responsibility for it and There has been some political ping-pong should not try to divert attention from the fact with respect to the Legal Aid Queensland Bill. that their Federal colleagues are responsible For those in our community who cannot for the greatest dismantling of the legal aid genuinely afford the high cost of professional system that we have seen in this country. We services, it is essential that we retain access to will have the ludicrous situation whereby affordable legal representation. For those who someone who potentially has a Federal or can afford their own barrister, QC or solicitor, State problem, or a mixture of both, will not this may be a very poor fall-back position. For know whether to apply to the proposed State those who cannot afford any help, legal aid legal aid office or to the Federal legal aid offers to them professional assistance at a office. That is similar to the situation that the time when they are fairly vulnerable, whether it shadow Attorney-General pointed out in is because of their own actions or those of relation to the Human Rights Commission. I do others. I would not be prepared to support not think that people should have to negotiate anything that would reduce or remove the the vagaries of our Commonwealth probability of legal aid being available in Constitution and the Federal/State balance Queensland to people who desperately need when they are in a desperate situation that it in our community. I thank the Attorney- requires legal assistance. General for this legislation, which will be of This Bill does nothing to address funding assistance to people in need in the and contains no guarantees of increased community. I look forward to the Attorney- funding. This Government ought to look at General's response. ways of increasing funding for legal aid. We Mr LUCAS (Lytton) (2.55 p.m.): I speak ought to examine what proportion of legal in this debate as a former legal practitioner assistance relates to solicitors' trust accounts. who had a very proud boast of never knocking For example, in Britain no proportion of back a client who was legally aided or who was solicitors' trust accounts is made available to seeking legal aid. It is very unfortunate that a its law society. We have to look at what number of people in my former profession proportion of interest that accrues on clients' decided not to do legal aid work or certain money in solicitors' trust accounts goes to types of it. I am very proud that I was never in legal aid, with a view to increasing that that position. I thank those who employed me, amount. because they inculcated me into a culture in We also have to look at the responsibility which legally aided clients were treated as of those practitioners in Queensland—and equals with other clients. No legal aid clients there is a quite significant number of were refused assistance. them—who make no contribution to legal aid. I also speak as someone who recognises There are also a substantial number of the vital role of the community legal service practitioners who, in a public spirited and sector. I was a founding member of the appropriate gesture true to their oath as Bayside Community Legal Service, which solicitors and barristers, believe it is operates from Capalaba and services appropriate that they take on legal aid work, residents free of charge living primarily in the which is work that we all know is less Wynnum/Manly and Redlands area of remunerative and sometimes extremely Brisbane. marginally remunerative—if not negatively—in This Bill is typical of the go-it-alone, Joh- the interests of representing people. style legislation in Queensland. It is a knee-jerk What about the legal practitioners—for reaction to callous Federal Government cuts. example, the large firms in Eagle Street—who The member for Gladstone spoke of her will not let a legal aid client in the door? Those commitment to increasing legal aid services practitioners have a Government authorisation and seeing that they are maintained. I believe through the Law Society to practise law. A lot 1524 Legal Aid Queensland Bill 7 May 1997 of them, similar to me, were educated through provide to the community. I strongly urge the university when tertiary education cost Attorney to look at a system of funding all students nothing. The taxpayers—the people community legal services to a minimum in the community—paid for their education. It level—even to allow them to have, say, a is about time that those people who are not coordinator for four or five hours a week—so prepared to donate their time and effort to that those many new, non-funded centres do performing legal aid work be held responsible have the capability of providing the maximum for some part of the burden of providing that level of services. The solicitors, the social service—a burden shouldered by others who workers and the volunteers are out there ready are motivated enough to do so. to help. All they are asking for is some I suggest that those practitioners, whether Government support to provide those services they be solicitors or barristers, who are not to the community. They do not want to be prepared to do a certain proportion of legal aid paid; they just want to help, but it is surely work perhaps ought look at making some reasonable to expect that there will be some contribution as a proportion of their gross fees Government support at a very modest cost to towards the provision of legal aid by those who enable those non-funded community legal are committed enough to do it. Lawyers do centres to provide that service. very well out of the system. It is a profession I want to speak about two other aspects that is well remunerated and very rewarding, of access to justice. I have said this before in but all lawyers share a responsibility to the this House and I am going to say it again. I community. They are held in high regard by refer to the matter of this Government making the community, or they ought be held in high the law more accessible to members of the regard by the community, and as officers of community and to the public. I note that the the court they should contribute something director of the Legal Aid Office is present. I back as well. commend him for the very good job that he I am very concerned about the has done with the Legal Aid Office in the past purchaser/provider model outlined in this Bill. I and also in terms of the number of initiatives see that as taking away clients' right of choice that it has undertaken to increase community and as being nothing but a belittling statement access to the legal system. But there is more of how clients are treated. I do not consider that has to be done, and this is a Government that clients are seeking the benefit of a responsibility. purchaser/provider contract; I see them as For example, as far as I am aware we do very important people who need the not have a video package that people could assistance of the legal aid system. It speaks go into a library and look up to find out how to volumes, I suggest, for this Government that it run their case in the Small Claims Tribunal. is not prepared to have a community Something like that would be relatively representative on the board of the Legal Aid inexpensive to produce and of great value to Commission. I find that very distressing, and it people who cannot afford lawyers or do not says a lot about this Government that it is not wish to use lawyers in cases in which often it is even prepared to consult the interests of those not feasible to do so. That would be a very who are the consumers of legal aid. That is good initiative that this Government could very, very disappointing. I strongly urge the undertake in terms of making the law more House to look very favourably upon the accessible to people—putting these videos in shadow Attorney's amendments in that libraries so that if someone wanted to know regard. how to run their Small Claims Tribunal action I want to say a little bit about community for a motor vehicle accident they could go legal centres. As I indicated before, I proudly down to the local library, borrow a video and was associated as a founding member of the examine how it is done. Bayside Community Legal Service. The I have spoken already about reforms to centres have a very important role in our the Small Claims Tribunal. I again exhort the society, because they assist people who slip Government to look at making the Small between the legal aid cracks and who cannot Claims Tribunal jurisdiction as wide as fairly afford private legal representation. They are possible to the community in order that they generally run very inexpensively. For example, have access to justice in those bottom-end the Bayside Community Legal Service is run matters that, at the present time, the courts so inexpensively that it gets no Government simply are not equipped to deal with. assistance whatsoever. Its very many volunteer solicitors and volunteer social In conclusion—I pay tribute to the Legal workers have no assistance whatsoever in Aid Office staff. They are very hardworking terms of coordinating the services that they people and they do an excellent job, and they 7 May 1997 Legal Aid Queensland Bill 1525 do not get paid a hell of a lot of money to do Commonwealth, State and Territory it. I pay tribute to those legal practitioners who Governments have responsibilities for the are public spirited enough to undertake legal provision of legal aid services within the aid work and to those practitioners who do pro Australian community. The Queensland bono work as well—those many practitioners Government prefers to deliver legal aid who give their time free of charge to services in its jurisdiction under a community legal services and to bettering the cooperative arrangement amongst the law for their fellow Queenslander. In summary, Commonwealth, States and Territories. It I cannot see any merit in supporting this Bill. It considers the Commonwealth proposition is here for one reason only: because the to terminate these arrangements and Government's Federal colleagues have gutted renegotiate a much lower funding formula legal aid funding. That is the reason behind to be unacceptable and untenable." this Bill. It would be different if it were about We stand by that position; nevertheless, we reforming the legal aid system to provide more also have a duty and a responsibility in this services, but it is not about that. It is because regard. The responsibility is to ensure that we Daryl Williams and his Federal colleagues continue to deliver legal aid services in this have shown by their actions what they think of State, and that is what this Bill is all about. It is legal aid clients, and for that reason it ought be condemned. not only for the State; we can also reach an agreement with the Commonwealth. Hon. D. E. BEANLAND (Indooroopilly— Attorney-General and Minister for Justice) It is fair to say that the Bill has had a (3.06 p.m.), in reply: I thank the speakers to number of modifications after a period of the Bill. It was pointed out by me in the consultation to streamline procedures for second-reading speech, and it has been applying for and obtaining legal aid, to give pointed out by various members in a range of the Legal Aid Commission greater flexibility in colourful language, that this legislation is its operations and to reform internal brought about because the Commonwealth management structures to reflect a business- has given notice that the current joint like focus. As I said, the Commonwealth is still agreement between the Commonwealth and joined with the State in negotiations for a State Governments regarding the funding for cooperative agreement. As to the outcome of legal aid services in this State will cease from 1 these negotiations—we will have to wait and July 1997, as it will cease in all the other see, but I say quite clearly that the States and Territories from that date. The negotiations are ongoing and a great deal of current statute in this State provides a specific effort is being put into that process not only by role for the Commonwealth for participation in the Government but also by the officers of the the commission. I think it is very important for Department of Justice. They are achieving us to keep in mind in relation to that matter some success. We have a range of issues to that this Government is very determined to negotiate with the Commonwealth ensure that there is a one-stop shop for the Government. delivery of legal aid services come 1 July. The funding from the Commonwealth is In the submission which the Queensland currently anticipated to be around $18m, Government made back in January this year which is higher than the figure indicated some to the Australian Senate Legal and time ago. There was to be a cut of $4.9m, so Constitutional References Committee inquiry we will have averted that to the tune of $3m to into legal aid, we made it quite clear that— $3.5m. At the end of the day there will be a cut not of $4.9m but possibly around $1.5m, "The current cooperative which is a vastly improved position on that arrangements since the 1980s have been which was previously anticipated. underpinned by negotiation or negotiated revised agreements or similar conditions This is not to say that we have finished with other States and Territories. The our negotiation; we have not. We are still Queensland Government's view is that hopeful of gaining additional funds from the these cooperative arrangements focus on Commonwealth but only time will tell. The agreed actions rather than uniform actual break-up of that amount into the practices or procedures. The Queensland various categories of the Commonwealth legal Government recognises the fundamental aid matters is certainly still under discussion, need to cooperate and coordinate its and we will continue those discussions over activities with the Commonwealth in the coming days and weeks. The Commonwealth provision of legal aid services. It is self- will detail its categories and priorities of work, evident that these cooperative and the relative priority between those arrangements recognise that the categories. The number of matters that can be 1526 Legal Aid Queensland Bill 7 May 1997 undertaken for the funding provided will also staff and will enable a flexible model which be finalised during negotiations over the utilises the private legal profession's coming week. The Commonwealth has capabilities so far as possible for the provision proposed a means test and a merit test. of legal aid services to the community. I think it Some negotiations will continue on these is terribly important for us to keep in mind that matters and we will endeavour to have a Queensland is very supportive of a uniform test in Queensland for State and cooperative model and we are looking forward Commonwealth matters. Having uniformity of to having that cooperative model in place access to legal aid for Commonwealth matters come 1 July to ensure that there is a in other States will also be a consideration. We continuation of the one-stop shop for legal aid will also continue to negotiate about the terms services in the State. of the agreement. Of course it is not only Queensland that is The Commonwealth has indicated that it affected by these cuts by the Commonwealth will continue to fund community legal centres, Government—cuts which have been brought subject to the new Legal Aid Board of Legal about because of the huge Federal Budget Aid Queensland. Of course this Queensland deficit which the incoming Commonwealth State Government—and we put this in Government was left by the former Labor writing—has indicated very clearly that it will Government to the tune of $8 billion or $10 continue to fund community legal centres on billion. The Commonwealth Treasury obviously the same basis as we have funded them looked to all sectors of Commonwealth during the current financial year. I say that Government expenditure to contribute towards because I know there is a lot of concern being funding that Budget deficit to try to get the whipped up by certain people in the Budget back on an even keel because, at the community for their own benefit in relation to end of the day, we all know what happens this matter. The new legal aid agreement will ourselves if we spend beyond our means, and mean that there is a continuation of legal aid the former Commonwealth Government was services for Queenslanders from one certainly doing that for a number of years. organisation—and we will hopefully get the Not only has Queensland been affected Commonwealth to sign. Legal aid funding for by this, so have other States, which are also State matters will be retained at the current addressing this particular issue. One has to level. During the current financial year, this look only to New South Wales where there is a National/Liberal coalition Government provided Government of the Labor persuasion. To be an additional $2.6m for legal aid services in fair to Mr Shaw, the New South Wales the State, and that will continue in the coming Attorney-General, I must say that he is financial year. certainly very carefully considering going down Funding for Commonwealth matters is a similar track to the one Queensland has expected to be provided at somewhere about taken. Other States are carefully considering a the 1995-96 level. It will be expended at the similar operation because of the problems direction of the Commonwealth in terms of its which they are also finding in this regard. priorities. However, it must be emphasised that Obviously, over some time, the State the Commonwealth is extremely supportive of Attorneys have had a number of discussions the model proposed by the Legal Aid on this matter and about how we might meet Queensland Bill. It is understood that the this new situation with which the Commonwealth negotiations with Queensland Commonwealth has confronted each of the are more advanced than with almost any other States. Australian jurisdiction, and final negotiations One of the issues raised during the are expected to ensue over the next three to debate related to funding Commonwealth four weeks. The Commonwealth has legal centres, which I have covered. There is a indicated—and I realistically expect—that there clause in the new legislation which will certainly will be a finalised agreement in place by 1 July allow the new legal aid body to continue 1997 for the continued provision of legal aid in funding community legal centres. Not so long Commonwealth matters. ago, this Government, through the Minister I should also mention, because I did not responsible for consumer affairs, provided go to great length to mention this during the additional funds to some of the community second-reading speech, that I understand legal centres in north Queensland to provide staff of the Legal Aid Office are satisfied with legal advice in relation to consumer matters. the arrangements proposed in the Bill. The That was additional funding which was made agreement with the Commonwealth will help available through the Office of Consumer cement a productive arrangement for in-house Affairs, outside the legal aid operations. 7 May 1997 Legal Aid Queensland Bill 1527

The member for Gladstone raised the Another clause that the member was issue of delivery of services through legal aid concerned about was the one which allows the and what will happen if we do not have a court to recommend assistance. This repeats mechanism—a structure—in place. Unless this a section of the current legislation, section legislation goes through, we will not have an 36A. This section was also contained in the effective administrative mechanism to Public Defence Act of 1974. In relation to that implement new arrangements, particularly in Act, that legislation was introduced by none relation to Commonwealth matters. other than a former Liberal Minister for Justice, the Hon. W. E. Knox, a former member for I notice that on a number of occasions Nundah. Of course the Liberal Party has had a the member for Yeronga said that we were long tradition in this State of upgrading, rushing into this matter. There has been implementing and adding to the provision of enormous pressure on the Government to legal aid services for Queenslanders. It is a make a decision to give some certainty to the very proud tradition indeed. In those days that Legal Aid Office in this State and to legislation showed great foresight; it was a consumers—to those people who receive legal piece of legislation that was pioneering in aid services. For some time, the legal many respects, and it was introduced by a profession as a whole has been pressuring the former Liberal Minister for Justice. At the end Government to make a decision to get some of the day, the issue of managing legal aid certainty. I can understand the need to get funds is a matter for the agreements that are some certainty into the system of how these put in place by the Commonwealth and the services might be provided, to provide some State, but it comes down to the Legal Aid mechanism. It is because of this that we are Commission and the Legal Aid Board to coming forward with this legislation. Whilst one manage those operations. might argue that there is still some distance to Another issue raised related to fees. I travel—and there is—we need to put in place understand that fees are generally paid on a mechanism so that services can be about an 80% basis. I believe that the delivered and so that we have a mechanism member for Gladstone was concerned about to also deliver Commonwealth services in this people being disadvantaged. I believe it is fair State. to say that the fees system will continue along Mr Foley interjected. current lines, and fees are generally paid at about 80% of the going market rate— Mr BEANLAND: There are no whatever that might be. There will be no arrangements to deliver, particularly in relation change from the current basis. I think that the to Commonwealth matters because the member for Gladstone was concerned about current agreement ceases at the end of June. those particular matters. Mr Foley: But the existing legislation is The courts are recommending legal adequate to give all to the Legal Aid Office. assistance. I think that issue was also raised Mr BEANLAND: That is not so at all if by the member for Gladstone. If legal aid we are going to deliver on Commonwealth refuses aid after a court makes comment, matters. then the result is that the person does not get legal assistance. The issue really becomes The member for Gladstone raised clause one of policy for the Government of the day, 12 of the Bill. It repeats the current section 29 especially in a criminal matter. The of the current Act. I think she indicated some Government, normally through the Attorney- third-party intrusion into this section. I say that General, would have to consider whether the no student is an adult and there certainly possible staying of an indictment against an would be no third party intrusion into this accused was in the public interest while the particular section of the Act. It is taken out of matter was further considered. Legal aid may the current provisions of the Legal Aid refuse assistance to a person for a number of Commission legislation. The member also valid reasons, especially budgetary reasons. raised another clause in relation to Legal aid, after all, is in charge of its terminations of conditions. The termination of budget—not the courts. It continues on the conditions will be when the matter is current basis, in other words. completed. Capping of amounts does occur in Also, we have recently seen in New South family law matters and I understand that the Wales in, I think, the Milat case, for example, Commonwealth is firmly of the view that it is that the courts have made comment on the going to insist on capping again in relation to amount of legal aid provided. Decisions had to family law matters, but they are matters on be made by the Government, which picked up which we are still negotiating. the bill for the many thousands of additional 1528 Legal Aid Queensland Bill 7 May 1997 dollars that were required in that particular the former Government that I dug up in case. The role of Government and of the relation to legal aid services and CLCs. Attorney-General comes under another part of I believe that I have answered the clause 63, which states that the Government member for Yeronga's concerns about a one- cannot interfere. It states— stop shop. He talked about squabbles "A direction under subsection (1) can between State and Federal Governments. not be about giving legal assistance to a There is no squabble. There are ongoing, particular person." determined negotiations on the part of this State Government to ensure that we get the I am not sure whether I fully understood the best deal possible for Queensland as far as question from the member for Gladstone, but funding from the Commonwealth Government the legislation clearly spells out that we cannot is concerned, and we will continue those interfere with legal aid's giving legal assistance negotiations. It is our determination to ensure to some particular person. I am not sure that we do provide appropriate legal aid whether the member was referring to that or services in this State from a one-stop shop as some other matter. far as the State and the Commonwealth are I indicated in my second-reading speech concerned. that Legal Aid Queensland will be an One member mentioned alternative independent body. That prevents interference, dispute resolution processes. They are just as other modern statutes prevent covered within this legislation, which allows for interference by Government in day-to-day funding for the provision of legal aid in relation matters. I believe that the Australian Financial to that matter. I think it was the member for Institutions Commission Act 1992 is one of Yeronga who raised the issue of a solicitor of those. It is the role of the Government to set choice. Of course, as far as that goes, what is out the guidelines and provide funding for in the current legislation is full of outs in legal aid. We can set out the guidelines, merit relation to solicitor of choice. It does not say tests, means tests, priorities and a whole host that one must have one's solicitor of choice, of other things but, at the end of the day, who and certainly not as far as the most important gains legal aid is a matter for the Legal Aid cases of all, that is, criminal cases, are Commission and Legal Aid Queensland itself. concerned. It really is another part of the I think the member also raised the issue current legislation, which goes to something of legal aid agents fees. There is no intent to like 100 pages and which adds nothing to the walk away from the full funding of clients. The real issues. current legislation enables the legal aid body We have tried to ensure that as much to set its fees in a flexible fashion. I believe I flexibility as possible will be given to the new may have partly referred to that a few Legal Aid Commission to ensure that it does moments ago, but just to recap—the existing drive the dollar as far as it can to provide the legislation is certainly deficient in terms of maximum in legal services possible—the operational matters. The efficiencies for the appropriate level. The current Legal Aid current commission are not contained within Commission wanted some changes in relation the current legislation. Also, the new legislation to this in order to streamline procedures for provides a legislative framework to enter into those applying for legal aid and to give the new funding agreements, whereas the old commission greater flexibility in making legislation as such does not. payments to private practitioners and to reform A great deal of concern was expressed internal management structures to reflect a about funding. I believe I have covered that, more businesslike focus. There have been a except to say that there will never be sufficient number of submissions from the current funding for legal aid services from the public commission in relation to this matter to the purse. In spite of the colourful language used effect that the retention of solicitor of choice in by members opposite, I believe that the the legislation runs counter to more flexible Government has shown its bona fides in this methods of service delivery, such as tendering regard by providing additional funds for legal and franchising, and prevents the commission aid in the current financial year. We do not from ensuring a quality legal service in all walk away from that. Nevertheless, there will cases. always be a greater demand than funds Traditionally, legal work has been available from the public purse to fund legal performed either in house by the commission aid services. I did not notice the former or has been referred to private solicitors who Government rushing into this matter at all. In are on the commission's list. Under the Act, a fact, I will not repeat some of the comments of person is entitled, as far as practicable, to the 7 May 1997 Legal Aid Queensland Bill 1529 solicitor of his or her choice provided that the business and management backgrounds. solicitor is on a list maintained by legal aid, However, the board will also contain people except where the matter is a prescribed with legal qualifications. Lawyers are not criminal proceeding. More flexible methods of excluded; far from it—they will have a allocation of legal work include tendering and significant role to play. The Bill specifies that franchising. The commission has contended the chief executive officer has to be a lawyer that, faced with continuing budget restrictions with at least five years' experience. The board and an obligation to assist as many as will be able to turn to the chief executive officer possible, it must look to more innovative ways and other lawyers within the organisation for of private practice service delivery, with assistance with legal matters. I think that tendering and franchising being among those Victoria has now converted to a much smaller particular methods of service delivery. operation. The board in Victoria comprises five I have covered the point of needing to get people. In an organisation that is a consumer some certainty into how we are going to organisation, which does nothing other than deliver services in Queensland. That matter deliver consumer services, to spell out that was raised by a number of members. The one member of its board will be representing member for Bundaberg raised a number of those who are legally assisted sends the issues focusing principally, I think it is fair to wrong message to all the other people who say, on funding. make up the board. The composition of the board was raised I thank the member for Mansfield and the by a number of members who felt that we member for Burleigh for their worthwhile should spell out that one of the people on the contributions. They were very meaningful board should be a consumer representative or contributions indeed. I hope that I have legally assisted representative for those who covered the points that have been raised by require legal assistance. Of course, I would the various speakers. In conclusion, I point out hope that all members on the board are going that it has been a very difficult time. It will to look out for the consumer, those who continue to be a difficult time as we continue require legal assistance, because the whole to negotiate with the Federal Government to board is a consumer organisation. That is its receive the best deal possible for the people purpose: to provide services to consumers. of Queensland who require legal aid services. The role of all those on the board is to look As I have shown, this Government has a very after consumers. To spell out that that is the clear commitment to that. I am sure that, if the role of one person may lead the other board Federal Government had not been faced with members to think that they do not have a role that huge Budget deficit, it would not be going to play in that regard when, by heavens, they down that particular road. Of course, that certainly do. It is a consumer-oriented board; it deficit was left by the Labor Party living is not like some other board that one may beyond its means. establish. It is purely for consumers; it is Mr Santoro: They don't like to hear that. nothing more, nothing less. Rather than Mr BEANLAND: The member for representing the interests of particular groups, Clayfield is quite right. such as the Law Society and Bar Association, This State National/Liberal coalition we have tried to give the Government of the Government will continue to get on with the day more flexibility and greater ability to deal. As a result of negotiations, we have appoint a range of people. I am sure that a already seen a significant increase in funding number of people on the board will be that will come to Queensland. We will continue solicitors or barristers. It is commonsense that those hard negotiations with the hope and they would be. Of course, we need others on belief that we can still extract more dollars from that board also. That provides the the Federal Government for legal aid funding Government with maximum flexibility to for Commonwealth matters in this State. I appoint appropriate and suitable people. commend the Bill to the House. The clear focus of the board is the Question—That the Bill be now read a management of the limited resources second time—put; and the House divided— available for legal aid in the most effective and AYES, 42—Baumann, Beanland, Borbidge, Connor, efficient manner possible. For some time, Cooper, Cunningham, Elliott, FitzGerald, Gamin, concerns have been held about the size of the Gilmore, Goss J. N., Grice, Harper, Healy, Hegarty, current board of the Legal Aid Commission. Hobbs, Horan, Johnson, Laming, Lester, Lingard, The skills required for those functions are more Littleproud, McCauley, Malone, Mitchell, Perrett, likely to be found, many would say, outside Quinn, Radke, Rowell, Santoro, Sheldon, Simpson, the legal profession, which is why we spelt out Slack, Stephan, Stoneman, Tanti, Warwick, Watson, that the board would contain people with Wilson, Woolmer. Tellers: Springborg, Carroll 1530 Legal Aid Queensland Bill 7 May 1997

NOES, 41—Ardill, Barton, Beattie, Bird, Bligh, of choice. On more than one occasion I seem Braddy, Bredhauer, Briskey, Campbell, D'Arcy, to have heard that expression dropped from De Lacy, Edmond, Elder, Foley, Fouras, Gibbs, Goss the lips of the member for Clayfield when he W. K., Hamill, Hayward, Hollis, Lucas, McElligott, was venting his spleen against the trade union McGrady, Mackenroth, Milliner, Mulherin, Nunn, movement and its practices. Nuttall, Palaszczuk, Pearce, Purcell, Robertson, Rose, Schwarten, Smith, Spence, Sullivan J. H., Mr Santoro: You didn't agree with that. Welford, Wells. Tellers: Roberts, Sullivan T. B. You weren't in favour of freedom of choice, Pairs: Davidson, Dollin; Veivers, Livingstone were you? Were you in favour of freedom of Resolved in the affirmative. choice then? Mr FOLEY: Freedom of choice is exactly what we had in place in the legal aid system. Committee That is why the Opposition is moving to Hon. D. E. Beanland (Indooroopilly— amend this Bill—so as to enable freedom of Attorney-General and Minister for Justice) in choice to take place. charge of the Bill. Mr Santoro: Rubbish! How can you Clauses 1 to 16, as read, agreed to. stand there and say that? You are not being Clause 17— serious. Mr FOLEY (3.41 p.m.): I move the Mr FOLEY: The Minister speaks out of following amendment— the depths of his ignorance in resisting this provision. It is a sensible provision. It is a "At page 14, after line 3— provision that many solicitors and barristers insert— would support as being in accordance with the '(3) In deciding whether to give the rights of legally assisted persons. To date, it is legal assistance itself or through a Legal not a provision which has produced Aid agent, Legal Aid must consider— unreasonable burdens on the legal aid system. It really is a backward step that we are (a) the legally assisted person's seeing in the removal of the principle of the interests; and solicitor of one's choice. (b) for a proceeding other than a Does the Attorney-General really expect specified criminal proceeding— the Chamber to accept his argument that the desirability of enabling the allowing freedom of choice could result in a legally assisted person, to the compromise of the quality of legal service extent it is practicable, to obtain available? Is it not a basic human right for a the assistance through a lawyer person to have some say as to who is to chosen by the legally assisted represent him or her in court? Frankly, in person.'." moving this amendment there would be an This amendment restores the principle of argument to take the matter further—to a solicitor of choice. In effect, this amendment extend that choice to specified criminal is a combination of sections 12(c), 33(7) and proceedings. I think that is a strong argument. 33(8) of the current Act, which gives effect to However, for the sake of retaining at least the the principle of solicitor of choice which has existing principle, the Opposition has confined operated in legal aid. Why is it that the this amendment to preserving the status quo, Government wants to move away from the to preserving the rights that legally assisted principle of giving freedom of choice? After all, persons have currently. this is a Government that holds itself out to the The Attorney-General has sought to pass business community, and to the community at the buck for some of the problems in this large, as promoting free choice. Yet when it legislation to the Commonwealth Attorney- has the opportunity to keep in place a sensible General. However, he cannot pass the buck principle that allows free choice, it runs away on this one. This amendment is consistent from it. Why does it do that? with the existing practice which the Legal Aid In his reply, the Attorney-General said that Commission and the Legal Aid Office have it gets in the way of tendering out. The been able to work in a practical, Government's argument really boils down to commonsense way, and it gives some respect this: it is a bit of a nuisance allowing people for the rights of legally assisted persons. The freedom of choice. That is a very strange amendment requires that legal aid must argument coming from the Liberal Party. I consider the desirability of enabling the legally seem to recall in this place the Liberal Party assisted person, to the extent that it is holding itself out as being in favour of freedom practicable, to obtain the assistance of a 7 May 1997 Legal Aid Queensland Bill 1531 lawyer chosen by the legally assisted person. would there be, if any, in administering it? What could be more reasonable than that? Obviously, I understand the advantages: a However, is the subtext of the person who wants legal aid can choose the Government's position really that it does not lawyer of his or her choice. I do not believe the believe that legal aid clients are entitled to the Attorney-General has worded the clause this same rights as other clients of legal services? way just to be obstreperous; I just request That is the effect of the Government's some clarification on what problems giving position. It is saying that these people are people the solicitor of their choice would create second-class citizens who should not have the for Legal Aid Queensland. rights of freedom of choice that are exercised Mr BEANLAND: The Commonwealth by other citizens who have the cash in their does not support the provision of a solicitor of pockets to pay for their legal services. As one choice. Therefore, if the amendment of the who believes in the beneficial effect of public honourable member for Yeronga was sector intervention in the marketplace, I have accepted, it would probably result in a number to say that that sort of attitude is very out of of problems in relation to agreements. date. Mr Foley: Maybe they should. It would be a great shame if this Chamber Mr BEANLAND: The member can say were to allow the Government to wind back that, but it is a fact that if the Commonwealth the clock to those patronising attitudes enters into an agreement that says that there towards public sector clients. The fact that one is no provision for a solicitor of choice and it is is in receipt of legal assistance should not of calling the tune, that creates complexities and itself deprive that person of the rights and administrative problems for Legal Aid liberties that are enjoyed by other clients of Queensland. The current situation enables the legal services. After all, the terms of the new body to use the law firms which can amendment echo the current provisions, which deliver legal assistance under the new have worked well and which require legal aid arrangements. In some cases they use to consider that, to the extent that it is generalists and in other cases they use practicable. The Government will lose nothing specialists. by supporting this amendment. If this amendment is successful, the rights of legally The member for Gladstone asked a assisted persons will be advanced. question about subclause (3)(a) of the amendment, which relates to the legally Mrs CUNNINGHAM: I want to ask the assisted person's interests. The short answer Minister a couple of questions. I think earlier to her question is: yes, legal aid would this amendment was summarised as being an normally look at those matters first. That has "eminently" appropriate amendment. I would always been the situation, as it should be. This like to know whether part (a) is not a normal is a consumer body and it is there to deliver consideration of the Legal Aid Board. I hope consumer services; it is not there for any other that it was always looking after the interests of purpose. the legally assisted person. As I mentioned a short while ago, the Secondly, I wanted to know what problem with subclause (3)(b) of the disadvantages could arise by allowing freedom of choice. The whole reason for legally amendment is the effect that it will have on assisting people is that the financial cost for operational efficiency. It will increase costs and those people of going out and selecting their deliver services. If members opposite want own lawyers is more than they can afford. I legal aid money spent in that way, that is fine. can only assume that Legal Aid Queensland, The effect of subclause (3)(a) of the in having a panel of qualified people available amendment moved by the member for to it, would have a process by which it could Yeronga is already covered and I am not sure why the member included it in his designate from that panel a number of amendment. Subclause (3)(b) states— qualified people whom they would choose, given the issues that are being heard before ". . . for a proceeding other than a the courts. specified criminal proceeding—the I would be interested in knowing what desirability of enabling the legally assisted disadvantage there could be to Legal Aid person, to the extent it is practicable, to Queensland in providing a service to perhaps obtain assistance through a lawyer chosen by the legally assisted person." more people, that is, giving people a choice. Will it disadvantage Legal Aid Queensland The amendment states, "to the extent it is and, therefore, people in Queensland practicable". That merely creates a lot more because it will cost more? What difficulties work and, at the end of the day, the whole 1532 Legal Aid Queensland Bill 7 May 1997 thing could very well be illusionary, as I have legal representatives, they would have a range already indicated. That process can be gone of options to choose from. It depends on what through under the current legislation, as I am the client was aggrieved about as to what sure it will be, without having it inserted into action could be taken. For example, one could the legislation. Legal aid normally looks at complain to the Law Society's disciplinary these things. Where possible, it will look at committee if the situation warranted it, and I providing a solicitor of choice. However, the am not sure of the circumstances that the wording of the amendment will mean that an member refers to. If a client thought that a administrative arrangement will have to be particular point of law was not put, they might established and that will cost money. Although appeal to another court. It all depends on the funding is difficult enough to obtain as it is, the situation, but the short answer is: yes. member wants to spend hard-won legal aid Mrs CUNNINGHAM: It is my funds in this manner. I think that money could understanding that appeals are not funded be better spent while, at the same time, taking under legal aid anyway, so that does not those considerations into account. provide an opportunity for an appeal The Legal Aid Board will enter into a mechanism. I was referring to the case in number of agreements with a number of law which a person felt that the allocated legal firms, and this point was raised by the member representative was not the appropriate person. for Gladstone. A number of law firms and Under the shadow Minister's amendment, the barristers in country areas and provincial cities client could argue that they would have had can be used. That is the way it has been in their choice of solicitor or legal representative. I the past and it will continue in the future. think that the Minister has already answered The member for Yeronga mentioned that there is an appeal mechanism through specified criminal proceedings. I noticed that the Law Society or similar body. the Labor Party did not move in that direction Mr BEANLAND: Some appeals are in 1990 or 1991 when the Public Defender's funded, depending on what they are. Office was put in with the Legal Aid Mr J. H. SULLIVAN: To follow up on a Commission. However, I will not pursue that point raised by the member for matter further. Gladstone—one of the most frequent At the end of the day, it is fair to say that complaints that I hear about solicitors is that the current arrangements are satisfactory. The they lost the case. member for Yeronga proposes another Mr FitzGerald: They never complain if illusionary clause, the effect of which is to they win. provide choice which is already included. Mr J. H. SULLIVAN: The solicitor who However, the administrative outcome of the wins is the world's greatest solicitor and he amendment would mean that additional funds who loses is the world's worst. As the member would be spent in going through the process. for Gladstone says, that presents quite a Quite frankly, I do not think that anything would ultimately be gained by that—far from specific problem with the legislation as it is it—except that we would spend hard-earned drafted at the moment, as legal aid itself will legal aid moneys on administration. be held responsible. It will be legal aid against whom the person who has happened to have Discussions have been held with the Legal Aid lost a case feels aggrieved. That is an Office on this matter. Hard-earned funds would important consideration. be spent on administrative matters. That money would be better spent on the provision I was amused to hear the Minister say, in of actual legal services. response to the shadow Attorney-General, that he could not agree to the amendment Mrs CUNNINGHAM: If a client is because the Commonwealth does not fund aggrieved because the allocated legal solicitors of choice and that would create a representative did not appropriately represent complexity of administration. As the shadow them and they felt disadvantaged by the Attorney-General said, that is the status quo quality of the legal aid that they were given, do now and there is no reason not to carry it on. they have the normal appeal provisions? Can Surely under the arrangements that are they appeal to the Law Society or whoever? proposed in this and other States, the Federal Mr BEANLAND: I understand that the Attorney-General is insisting that short answer to that question is: yes. When Commonwealth funds will be used only to fund one says that a solicitor does not "measure Commonwealth cases. Therefore, there is an up", it depends what it is or who the appeal administrative burden in place already which goes to. If a client believes that they are would not be exacerbated by the provision aggrieved by the representation from their that says that State funds can be used to 7 May 1997 Legal Aid Queensland Bill 1533 provide a solicitor of choice. The Attorney- NOES, 42—Baumann, Beanland, Borbidge, Connor, General is making that administrative Cooper, Cunningham, Elliott, FitzGerald, Gamin, differentiation between where the funds come Gilmore, Goss J. N., Grice, Harper, Healy, Hegarty, from now and what cases they will fund, so Hobbs, Horan, Johnson, Lester, Lingard, Littleproud, there is no additional administrative burden. I McCauley, Malone, Mitchell, Perrett, Quinn, Radke, Rowell, Santoro, Sheldon, Simpson, Slack, Stephan, think that the smartest thing that the Stoneman, Tanti, Turner, Warwick, Watson, Wilson, Parliament can do is to adopt the amendment Woolmer. Tellers: Springborg, Carroll that has been placed before it by the shadow Pairs: Dollin, Davidson; Livingstone, Veivers Attorney-General. Resolved in the negative. Mr FOLEY: I wish to dispose of the argument advanced by the Attorney-General Clause 17, as read, agreed to. that the amendment will cause extra cost. I Clauses 18 to 20, as read, agreed to. remind the Attorney-General and the Chamber that this is essentially the status quo; this is Clause 21— essentially what is provided for in sections Mr BEANLAND (4.09 p.m.): I move the 12(c), 33(7) and 33(8) of the current Act. In following amendment— other words, there is an existing principle of "At page 15, line 6, 'may'— freedom of choice and the Opposition's amendment keeps that alive. That does not omit, insert— create an extra cost; that simply keeps the 'must'." rights of legally assisted persons at the level This amendment concerns a matter that they currently enjoy. I would ask raised by the Scrutiny of Legislation honourable members to support the Committee. The current proposed legislation amendment. uses the word "may". It was always the Mr BEANLAND: This does not speak intention of the Government that the new only in relation to Commonwealth matters; it Legal Aid Queensland Board would have in speaks generally. Certainly, the place a review mechanism. That would be Commonwealth Government will have to put in quite appropriate. It could not operate without additional administrative procedures to cope an appropriate review mechanism. Since there with Commonwealth moneys going to was some concern that the word "may" left a Commonwealth matters. This will add an way out for the board in that it was not additional cost burden. As I have indicated mandatory, I am very happy to move this already, the Legal Aid Office operates in such amendment to the effect that the board must a way that, where possible, people of choice establish a review mechanism, which was are provided. However, this is already adding always the intention of the Government. That an administrative cost burden on legal aid is only appropriate and proper. funding. Less of the legal aid funding will be We have not spelt out all the review available to spend on other matters if it is mechanisms, as the other legislation did, spent on administration. We are trying to because that proved cumbersome. The board ensure that the dollars go as far as possible. will establish a mechanism for that procedure A range of additional administrative within the legislation. That will be in place so matters will be required and, at the end of the that people who are denied legal aid in the day, will add nothing to the whole system. The first instance will have a review process. termination of the current agreement could Mr FOLEY: The Opposition supports mean that a greatly increased number of this amendment, as I indicated in the debate services will have to be provided by legal aid, on the second reading of the Bill. The because of the additional costs incurred by amendment makes it clear that Legal Aid this provision. Legal aid officers are concerned Queensland is to set up a review mechanism. about the administrative burden. That is a sensible provision and we support it. Question—That the words proposed to Amendment agreed to. be inserted be so inserted—put; and the Committee divided— Clause 21, as amended, agreed to. AYES, 41—Ardill, Barton, Beattie, Bird, Bligh, Clause 22— Braddy, Bredhauer, Briskey, Campbell, D'Arcy, Mr J. H. SULLIVAN (4.11 p.m.): In her De Lacy, Edmond, Elder, Foley, Fouras, Gibbs, Goss W. K., Hamill, Hayward, Hollis, Lucas, McElligott, second-reading contribution the member for McGrady, Mackenroth, Milliner, Mulherin, Nunn, Gladstone raised the issue of legal aid being Nuttall, Palaszczuk, Pearce, Purcell, Robertson, recommended by a court under clause 22(1). I Rose, Schwarten, Smith, Spence, Sullivan J. H., note that the recommendation of a court for Welford, Wells. Tellers: Roberts, T. B. Sullivan, legal aid is a relevant matter under clause 1534 Legal Aid Queensland Bill 7 May 1997

12(i). However, I am concerned that we may insert— have something that needs to be resolved '(1A) One of the persons must be here in relation to legal aid and the courts. I appointed, on nomination by the Minister, understand that the case in New South Wales as an appropriate person to represent the related to a chap by the name of Marini. My interests of legally assisted persons.'." recollection, although I am not absolutely certain on this, is that it was a retrial matter. He This amendment ensures that one of the was given a permanent stay of proceedings persons on the Legal Aid Board will be a because, although the court recommended person appointed on nomination by the legal aid, legal aid in New South Wales did not Minister as an appropriate person to represent grant it—the Commonwealth did not come the interests of legally assisted persons. The through with the funds. I would be most need for this arises out of the change in the concerned if this were to be a style of matter nature of the Legal Aid Board from the that were to come through in Queensland. I structure of the old Legal Aid Commission. have noticed also that the Director of Public The Government has moved from a Prosecutions has made some comments in representational model to a model where regard to non-funding of retrials in relation to there is a small number of persons who the prospect that we may have to change to presumably share a commitment to the majority decisions by our juries, for example. I corporate goals of the Legal Aid Board. ask the Attorney to comment on that point, if What that means in practical terms is that he would not mind. there will not be a specific person there to represent the interests of legally assisted Mr BEANLAND: Clause 22 provides persons. That is very important. It is very that the court may recommend legal assistance. As I indicated previously, this was important that people who are clients of this a provision under the old Public Defence Bill service should have someone on the board back in 1974. It was carried forward into the specifically charged with the function of current legal aid legislation and it has been representing their interests. I refer to the very carried forward into this legislation. It allows the fine contribution made by Ms Stephanie court to recommend assistance, but at the Belfrage, who, given her experience as a end of the day it is a matter for legal aid to social worker and her wide experience in manage the funds in line with the agreements, community life, has been a strong voice in etc. I think that is the point that the member is support of the interests of legally assisted making—that it is the Legal Aid Commission persons in her role on the commission. that ultimately makes the decision on whether I listened with interest to the Attorney- or not funding will be provided. I am not sure General's explanation as to why such a how to overcome that. It is the Legal Aid provision was to be removed. I think it must Commission that must manage these things, rank in the Monty Python hall of arguments of unless the member is saying that if the court desperation. His argument was that if one says it is mandatory then legal aid must provided that one of the parties was to provide it, but that is a matter which is not represent the interests of legally assisted provided for elsewhere within the legislation, persons, this would take away from the duty of and it is striking out in a slightly different the rest of the members of the board. What direction from the current position. I do not an absurd argument! see, particularly in relation to criminal matters, Let us remind ourselves as to what the that it is going to come up in Queensland. The qualifications are to be on this board. The member pointed out that it has come up in provisions of clause 49(2) say that a person is New South Wales. At the end of the day the not eligible to be appointed by the Governor in pressure would be on Government to find Council unless the person has knowledge or additional funding if legal aid was not prepared experience in commerce, economics, finance, to come to the party. That is something which management or providing legal services. In the Government of the day would no doubt other words, the whole thrust of the legislation have to look at. is designed to put in place persons with Clause 22, as read, agreed to. expertise in the area of finance, management and commerce. What the Opposition wants to Clauses 23 to 48, as read, agreed to. see is a strong voice in support of the interests Clause 49— of legally assisted persons. That is important when one considers the objects of the Mr FOLEY (4.15 p.m.): I move the legislation set out at clause 3, which provide following amendment— not only for the giving of legal assistance to "At page 30, after line 18— financially disadvantaged persons in the most 7 May 1997 Legal Aid Queensland Bill 1535 effective, efficient and economical way but illusion to determine how this is to operate. He also provide for the pursuit of innovative need simply look to the words of the current commercial arrangements, including legal Legal Aid Act from which these words are assistance arrangements for giving legal taken and look to the actual hard detailed assistance at a reasonable cost to the work done in practice by persons such as Ms community and on an equitable basis Stephanie Belfrage, who is a commissioner throughout the State. appointed under this provision in the existing In the pursuit of efficiency and in the legislation. There is nothing illusionary about pursuit of economies, we must never lose that. It is very practical; it is very much based sight of the human dimension of what we are on commonsense and there is a proven track talking about. We must not lose sight of the record. fact that this is there in order to serve the As we move into the brave new corporate battlers and the disadvantaged, the people world of purchaser/provider, it is important that who are facing need and hardship and who we have coming through that world a human require some remedy through the legal voice, a voice that speaks up for those who system. The amendment moved by the are, after all, the users of legal aid, and really Opposition will ensure that there is some voice there is nothing in the Government's speaking out on behalf of the interests of arguments to resist the commonsense of the legally assisted persons, and to that end it Opposition's amendment. should be supported by all the honourable members of this Chamber. Mrs CUNNINGHAM: On three occasions now the shadow Minister has Mr BEANLAND: As I mentioned mentioned a person with whom he is obviously previously, the interests of legally assisted familiar and for whom he has high regard. I persons will be catered for in the new legal intend to support this amendment, but not a assistance arrangements. Obviously, that is particular person. The discretion is given within what legal aid is about—the interests of the this clause for the Minister to nominate a legally assisted person—and that will be clearly person. I would like to place on record that the spelt out in the new legal assistance person is not designated. We could end up in arrangements. At the end of the day, an a fight in this place about personalities. The insertion of this provision is illusionary really amendment is only a generic amendment to because it is somewhat ambiguous. How do allow a person who will represent the we represent the interests of legally assisted consumers of the service to be nominated. I persons? I understand the point that the think that there is some merit in having a honourable member made about suitable person as a member of that board, consumerism. However, there is wide range of but that is not an endorsement of anyone people involved, and the whole thrust of this whom the shadow Minister has recommended legal aid operation is to provide people with simply because—— legal aid services and, as the honourable member said, to represent the interests of Mr Foley: I never suggested that. legally assisted persons. Mrs CUNNINGHAM: No, but I am just We are trying to make a little play to clarifying it because I do not know about create a situation in which consumers are whom the member is speaking. I just wanted assisted in some way and people are to clarify that point. convinced that this is a wonderful thing. Both Mr BEANLAND: I am not decrying the the Federal and the State Governments will work that people do to assist those people spell out social policies and so on and how who require legal assistance. There are a these are to be funded in their legal number of people who would be suitable. The assistance agreements. The board, of course, person mentioned by the member for Yeronga is there to implement these legal assistance certainly does a great deal of work in this arrangements. I think that is really the thrust of regard. She assists people in many ways. I do it. At the end of the day, we have another one not deny that; I never have. But we are talking of these illusionary provisions, and one which about people working on boards. Every is somewhat ambiguous, about how the member of this board is going to be thinking person is going to represent the interests of about the consumers—those people in the the legally assisted person in this vein. Of community who require legal assistance—and course, the whole operation is there to assist providing legal assistance for them. That is the consumers. That is what this is really all about. whole purpose of having them there. Clearly, Mr FOLEY: The Honourable the this is another one of these illusionary Attorney-General need not look to the world of amendments. 1536 Legal Aid Queensland Bill 7 May 1997

Question—That the words proposed to Clauses 50 to 53, as read, agreed to. be inserted be so inserted—put; and the Clause 54— Committee divided— AYES, 42—Ardill, Barton, Beattie, Bird, Bligh, Mr J. H. SULLIVAN (4.32 p.m.): I think Braddy, Bredhauer, Briskey, Campbell, Cunningham, I may have called the wrong clause number. I D'Arcy, De Lacy, Edmond, Elder, Foley, Fouras, probably want to talk more about clause 55. Gibbs, Goss W. K., Hamill, Hayward, Hollis, Lucas, Nevertheless, to save a bit of time, because I McElligott, McGrady, Mackenroth, Milliner, Mulherin, am sure that—— Nunn, Nuttall, Palaszczuk, Pearce, Purcell, Robertson, Rose, Schwarten, Smith, Spence, Mr Springborg: I'm sure you'll get 10 Sullivan J. H., Welford, Wells. Tellers: Roberts, minutes out of it. Sullivan T. B. Mr J. H. SULLIVAN: No, I will not take NOES, 41—Baumann, Beanland, Borbidge, Connor, 10 minutes at all. I am sure that the Attorney Cooper, Elliott, FitzGerald, Gamin, Gilmore, will be able to answer quite succinctly my Goss J. N., Grice, Harper, Healy, Hegarty, Hobbs, Horan, Johnson, Lester, Lingard, Littleproud, succinct question about the delegation of the McCauley, Malone, Mitchell, Perrett, Quinn, Radke, board's powers, as set out in clause 54, simply Rowell, Santoro, Sheldon, Simpson, Slack, Stephan, to the chief executive officer. I have some Stoneman, Tanti, Turner, Warwick, Watson, Wilson, concerns about that, in that it will be a small Woolmer. Tellers: Springborg, Carroll board of five persons. There is no necessity for Pairs: Davidson, Dollin; Veivers, Livingstone any member of the board to have any specific qualification, other than that one of them Resolved in the affirmative. should be a representative of aided people. Of Mr FOLEY: I move— course, a number of qualifications do apply. I "At page 30, line 19, after 'person'— have some concern that these broad powers may all be delegated to the chief executive insert— officer, who then would make those decisions, ', other than the person appointed particularly in relation to subsection (b) relating under subsection (1A),'." to the priorities and strategies, and then set This amendment simply makes the about carrying out his or her own decisions. I provision that where the person who is wonder whether the provisions as they representing the interests of legally assisted severally appear in these clauses provide, in persons is appointed, such a person need not the Attorney's view, sufficient safeguards that necessarily have the knowledge or experience no level of abuse is available. in commerce, economics, finance, Mr BEANLAND: As I understand it, this management or the provision of legal services is the normal situation that prevails. If we as set out elsewhere in the clause. It is self- establish a board, the board has to have the explanatory. ability to delegate some of its powers. If the I might take the opportunity, however, to board was going to delegate all of its convey my thanks to the Office of powers—as the member implied—then the Parliamentary Counsel for its assistance in board would have absolutely nothing to do preparing amendments to this Bill, the and would be abrogating its duties and Electoral Bill, the Referendums Bill, the Justice responsibilities. It is normal commercial and other Legislation (Miscellaneous practice for this to occur. Frankly, I do not see Provisions) Bill and the Queensland Law any issue or concern in relation to that. Society Legislation Amendment Bill (No. 2). I However, if the member has some particular also thank the Minister's staff, who have been and specific matter that he wants to raise, I of assistance in providing briefings to me and am happy for him to give me a note about it to the Opposition, and the staff of the Justice and I will pursue the matter further. Department for their professionalism and courtesy in attending at those briefings and Clause 54, as read, agreed to. assisting in the explanation of the legislation. Clauses 55 to 74, as read, agreed to. Mr BEANLAND: Because the Clause 75— Committee has carried the previous amendment and, as the member for Yeronga Mr J. H. SULLIVAN (4.35 p.m.): I has indicated, this amendment follows on from believe that the matter that I am about to raise that previous amendment, the Government with the Attorney is quite important. It relates supports this amendment. to legal professional privilege, which is provided for under clause 75, particularly Amendment agreed to. subsection (2) of what will be section 75 of the Clause 49, as amended, agreed to. Act, which states— 7 May 1997 Legal Aid Queensland Bill 1537

"Confidential communications raise them with me later and I will get some between a legally assisted person and more advice for him. Legal Aid or a Legal Aid lawyer are Mr J. H. SULLIVAN: I have turned subject to legal professional privilege." fairly quickly to proposed section 82 and in A legally assisted person is defined in this particular to 82(5), which sets out quite a legislation—not in the Dictionary but in broad list of people to whom information could proposed section 6 of the Act. The definition be disclosed under the secrecy provisions, of "legally assisted person" is— which the Minister has been advised might ". . . a person— save the material disclosed by a person who is merely an applicant. I am not convinced that, (a) who is receiving legal assistance; or under this Bill, legal professional privilege (b) who was receiving legal assistance would apply to a matter disclosed by an for a matter and, before the matter applicant in the way that professional privilege finished, stopped receiving legal would apply to a person who was consulting a assistance." solicitor for the first time about a matter. It I have a grave concern that this particular seems to me that, if the provision operates as provision of clause 75 would mean that a the Minister says it does, it does so in a limited person who is merely an applicant for legal aid manner that I am not personally terribly happy would not be covered and would not have the with. benefits of his or her correspondence with Mr BEANLAND: That issue is covered legal aid or a legal aid lawyer covered by in the current legislation under section 81, the privilege. I had hoped that that was not the secrecy provision. I have just quickly asked the case, but it seems to me that the provisions in Director of the Legal Aid Office about that. He the Bill relate specifically to a person who is informs me that there have not been any legally assisted, and that is defined within the problems with the current situation. We have Bill. However, an applicant does not fall within simply lifted the sections from the current that definition. legislation. Subsection (4) of clause 75 then goes on Mr J. H. SULLIVAN: I accept that as a to state that— "No". My final comment is that the Minister seems to be oscillating between supporting ". . . this section has effect despite any the status quo and not supporting the status other law." quo in matters that we have raised. The fact That means that we cannot rely on any other that it exists in the current legislation does not statute in Queensland to save that legal make an argument that says it is right. The professional privilege for a person who is an fact that problems have not occurred under applicant. I notice that an answer is the current legislation does not mean that forthcoming. I would be interested to hear problems will not occur. I accept that at this what the Attorney has to say on this point. time the Minister's answer is: no, he does not Mr BEANLAND: I am advised that this propose to change it. I am pleased that I have is a standard clause. Section 14(2) of the been able to be heard on the matter. current Act covers this particular section. It Clause 75, as read, agreed to. relates to a need to cover a solicitor/client Clauses 76 to 99, as read, agreed to. relationship. There is another section—82, I think it is—in relation to secrecy provisions. I Clause 100— will take a moment to look at that section, Mr FOLEY (4.42 p.m.): This clause because I have a feeling that it might cover deals with employees of legal aid. I seek an some other matters. There is a section that assurance from the Attorney-General that no relates to secrecy, but I will not have time to job losses will be associated with the change read it out. I hope that covers the issue about from the existing Legal Aid Commission which the member is concerned. The section structure into the new Legal Aid Queensland. applies to a person who is or was a legal aid A great deal of concern has been expressed employee under the Act, or a commission among workers over the discussion paper officer, a review committee, a consultative circulated among senior management, which committee, etc. There is a whole section there, contemplated the closure of regional offices and I have a feeling that that is another and the downsizing, to use the euphemism so section that was probably lifted out of the often used in these situations, of the legal aid current legislation. I hope that it covers the staff. In particular, concern is expressed about member's concerns. If the member has any the assignment staff, that is, those persons other concerns, he can raise them now or whose job it is to manage the assignment of 1538 Townsville Breakwater Entertainment Centre Amendment Bill 7 May 1997 cases. I have heard the Attorney in public Mr FOLEY: Would the Minister indicate, debate say that no regional office closures will in the event that he is unable to secure occur. I invite him to give that assurance on agreement with the Commonwealth, what is the parliamentary record. Secondly, I ask him the scale of the contemplated job losses at to give an assurance that the change will not legal aid? If he is unwilling to give a plain and result in job losses to the staff of legal aid. simple assurance that no job losses will occur, Mr BEANLAND: In my second-reading I ask him to at least inform the Committee of speech I indicated very clearly the the scale, the likely number of job losses, in Government's position in relation to that. The the event that he is unable to secure relevant union was consulted in some detail in agreement with the Commonwealth about this relation to the Bill. It will be business as usual matter. come 1 July. Clause 100 preserves the Mr BEANLAND: As I already indicated, existing and accrued rights of all current legal the Government is not about not reaching an aid employees, including staff in the Public agreement; we are about reaching an Defender's Office. As I said in my second- agreement, a one-stop shop. Therefore we reading speech, this Bill is not about are not contemplating any job losses. I downsizing or sacking loyal, industrious indicated that earlier today; I indicate that now employees. very clearly; I indicated that in my second- reading speech. We are not contemplating Mr FitzGerald: No regional offices. any job losses. We are looking to drive the Mr BEANLAND: There will be no dollar further, but we are looking to reach an closure of regional offices. I am not sure where agreement with the Commonwealth that will that rumour came from. That has been going ensure that staff are looked after and no job on for some time. I recollect that, towards the losses occur. We are well under way towards latter part of last year or earlier this year, reaching that agreement. As I indicated someone was attacking me over that particular earlier, we are probably further down that road matter. than any other State, including New South Mr Foley: It came from the legal aid Wales. Each State Government has that discussion paper. problem and is very much aware of it. This State Government is moving to ensure that we Mr BEANLAND: That is right: it came in Queensland deliver legal aid services. One from a legal aid discussion paper that of the basic reasons we are moving in this way examined a range of alternatives as to how through this legislation today is to ensure that they might approach the forthcoming situation. we keep the legal aid mechanism that we This is how we have tackled it. There will currently have and to ensure that the jobs certainly be no closure of regional offices. remain for all staff. Mr FOLEY: I press the Minister on this Clause 100, as read, agreed to. point. The Minister said that the Bill is not Clauses 101 to 104, as read, agreed to. about downsizing. That may be so. With great respect, the Minister has not answered the Schedule, as read, agreed to. question that I have put to him. Nor has he Bill reported, with amendments. given the assurance that I have sought. The assurance that I seek is one that I seek as a result of numerous concerns expressed to me Third Reading by workers at legal aid. I am seeking an Bill, on motion of Mr Beanland, by leave, assurance from the Minister that this read a third time. legislation will not result in job losses at legal aid. TOWNSVILLE BREAKWATER Mr BEANLAND: As far as the State is ENTERTAINMENT CENTRE concerned, it will certainly not result in job AMENDMENT BILL losses. It is a matter for us to get the Commonwealth on board with its agreement. Second Reading Provided we do that, no job losses will occur. Resumed from 30 April (see p. 1134). We may not reach that agreement, and the Hon. T. M. MACKENROTH Commonwealth may decide to deliver in some (Chatsworth) (4.50 p.m.): The Opposition other way. However, we are very confident, as supports the Townsville Breakwater I have indicated to the Parliament. We are Entertainment Centre Amendment Bill. The very close to reaching agreement. If that goes legislation simply allows for the Government to forward, no job losses will occur. make a grant of $11.5m to both the Townsville 7 May 1997 Townsville Breakwater Entertainment Centre Amendment Bill 1539

City Council and the Thuringowa City Council It is worth while noting further that this to extend the entertainment centre at facility has changed the lives of many people Townsville, which was built when Labor was in in north Queensland. All of those people who Government. At that stage, its construction were involved in the initial planning of the was supported by all the parties in this centre and its subsequent support are to be Parliament. congratulated on the step that was taken to construct it. As was noted in the Minister's The Opposition has no opposition second-reading speech, originally there was a whatsoever to seeing the money from the lack of capacity to take the second step and State being passed on to both of those upgrade the facility. However, I am delighted councils to enable the entertainment centre, that it is now going to happen. which has been a tremendous success in Townsville, to be extended so that the crowds I must say that the centre has become a that visit the centre can become even larger. focal point in the old part of the central The Opposition will support the legislation. Townsville district. It is providing a great stimulus for that part of the city, which is going Mr STONEMAN (Burdekin) (4.51 p.m.): through a time of change owing to the I rise briefly in support of this amending proposal to either upgrade or relocate the legislation. Of course, it is very pleasing to Townsville General Hospital and the siting of note that the Opposition supports the Bill. the Pandora museum in that area. That It has been very pleasing to work closely museum is a $17m facility which has with the Mayors of Townsville City and Government support. The railway yards are Thuringowa City in developing the project to going to provide the capacity for new and this stage. The application for the additional exciting developments. Of course, The Strand funding was facilitated through the north area is famous throughout Australia as a Queensland Office of the Premier. I am very playground, or a shopfront, for visitors to this proud of the fact that it took only 28 days from part of north Queensland. In my view, it the time the application was put on my desk in provides great opportunities. Townsville to it receiving Cabinet approval and Through the staged development of the subsequent announcement by the upgrading the harbour facilities on Magnetic Premier that the Government was to proceed Island, that part of Townsville is going to with the $11.5m support package. increasingly become a focal point for visits not only by people from within the State but also The upgrade of the centre is being guided by people from interstate and overseas. It has and monitored by the office in consultation the capacity to enhance the attractions of with the Treasurer, the trust and the councils north Queensland on a wider scale. We have involved. It is worth noting that since the the reef, the rainforest, the tablelands and centre has been used by the Townsville Suns other attractions in far-north Queensland. We basketball team, which competes in the have the sunshine, the sporting centres and National Basketball League, that team has other attractions that the Townsville region had a 100% success rate—total sell-outs for offers, not the least of which are the North almost 60 games. This year I launched the Queensland Cowboys. In terms of attracting season, and I think that game was the 54th support from the community, they have been sell-out game at the Townsville Entertainment a great success story. I hope that that support Centre. I think that is an unmatched record not is soon transformed into a few more wins! I only in the history of basketball in Australia but must also mention the great historic hinterland also probably of any sport in Australia. of Charters Towers, Ravenswood, the mining I see our faithful Treasury officers in the west and, of course, the Pioneer Valley, lobby. I acknowledge their support and Mackay and the Whitsunday region. That area guidance in this matter. The officers from the of northern Australia is definitely one of the Department of Local Government are also great parts of this country and of the Pacific present. I think that 4,616 is the burst-to-the- region. seams number of people who are able to go This legislation is part of a new era for to the games at the centre. This upgrade will north Queensland and for Townsville. I do not allow that number to increase to well over want to prolong this debate. The fact is that it 5,000. In addition, the comfort and facilities at is necessary to place on record the work that the centre will also be enhanced very has been undertaken and the way in which it considerably, which will have a significant has been coordinated by various departmental impact on the capacity of the entertainment officers. I also place on record the support that centre to market itself to different clientele and the program has received across political lines. attract larger conventions. Not only will north Queenslanders be proud of 1540 Primary Industries Legislation Amendment Bill 7 May 1997 those enhanced facilities; all Queenslanders Mr FitzGerald: He might have had a will be proud of them. I commend the trust, sandalwood tree on his property. the city councils of Townsville and Thuringowa Mr SCHWARTEN: I do not think and their mayors—all of those involved. I am sandalwood grows in that part of the world, delighted to support the passage of this although it may do. amending Bill through the House. Part 2 of the Bill refers to sandalwood. Hon. D. E. McCAULEY (Callide— Last year, my parliamentary colleagues the Minister for Local Government and Planning) member for Mackay, the member for Hervey (4.58 p.m.), in reply: I would like to thank the Bay and the member for Ipswich West and I members for their contributions. I also take this visited western Queensland and we called in opportunity to wish the Townsville Suns the at Richmond. We met with Easton Jones, who very best of luck in the future. runs an enterprise which employs some 30 people. I must admit that I did not know much Committee about the industry until then. He acquainted us with the dreadful practice of poaching, the Clauses 1 to 9, as read, agreed to. impact it has on the environment and the Bill reported, without amendment. capacity of the resource to provide a decent base for the industry and also the effect that that has on our reputation overseas for Third Reading supplying quality products. I know that the Bill, on motion of Mrs McCauley, by leave, member for Hervey Bay will deal with our visit read a third time. in more detail, so I will leave it to him. Suffice to say that the decent operators in the industry will welcome the legislation and I congratulate PRIMARY INDUSTRIES LEGISLATION the Minister on bringing it forward so quickly. In AMENDMENT BILL November last year, the time of our visit, not Second Reading much was being done in this regard. The Resumed from 30 April (see p. 1180). Minister has been able to get this up and Mr SCHWARTEN (Rockhampton) running in a very short period. (5 p.m.): The Opposition supports the Primary The Scrutiny of Legislation Committee Industries Legislation Amendment Bill currently has done its usual good job in researching the before the House. In so doing, I convey my ramifications of the legislation. I note its thanks to the Minister for providing an concern about the clause which allows for the excellent briefing this morning. The Minister seizure of apparatus associated with the illegal made available his personal staff and a poaching of sandalwood. Under normal number of his departmental staff for the circumstances, most of us being fair-minded briefing. I think that generally the public does people would say that it is not appropriate to not understand the nature of this game, so I seize something without a warrant. However, thank the Minister for that courtesy; it was given that this black market industry is located most helpful. in the far reaches of the scrub, it is a little hard The Bill before the House is very to say to people who are involved in illegal necessary in a number of facets. However, activities, "Just wait here while I slip back 150 before speaking to the Bill, I make this passing kilometres into Hughenden or Richmond and remark: I wonder why the Minister was placed obtain a warrant. Then I'll come back and in charge of the Bill rather than the Natural seize all the gear that you have." We need to Resources Minister, given that sandalwood is be practical about that. I note that the Scrutiny not a commercial forest material but is, of Legislation Committee said that that is a currently at least, a natural forest material, matter for the Parliament, and that is wise although I understand that the member for advice. The Parliament would be wise to Fitzroy has some views on sandalwood being accept the nature of the Bill and the unique a commercial timber in other parts of Australia. situation that this sort of poaching creates. I am somewhat bemused by just how this The increase of penalties to $75,000 per happened. Perhaps it came down to the flip of person and $225,000 for corporations found a coin between the Minister and the Minister guilty create quite heavy fines. Currently, the for Natural Resources, but it highlights the fine is about $7,000. As some of these difficulty when one Act covers two shysters can make up to $40,000 a day from departments. The Queensland Timber Board poaching, $7,000 is probably not much of a is not too happy about that particular disincentive. With the provision of a $75,000 arrangement. fine, I hope that magistrates do not treat these 7 May 1997 Primary Industries Legislation Amendment Bill 1541 people like modern-day Robin Hoods. Taking Legislation Committee had reservations about the example of the fishing industry, a Cairns whether a case involving an officer who had magistrate has started to listen to the contravened a relevant section was a judicial community. He recently handed down a rather than an administration matter. At the $20,000 fine and an 8 or 10-month briefing provided this morning, Mr Bridgman suspension of licence for illegal fishing, which clarified that matter. The Scrutiny of means effectively $100,000 worth of fines. Legislation Committee was aware of the I hope that the magistrates take heed of concern, but the legislation will not actually the Parliament's concern and do not send take away anybody's rights and does not people away with a slap on the wrist, because override the due process of law. Therefore, the these people are indulging in absolutely Opposition does not have any problems with outrageous activities which threaten the that part of the Bill. As I said at the outset, we viability of what could be, and what currently is, support the legislation and we will cooperate in a very good industry. I believe that this product getting it through the Parliament this evening. makes approximately $1,000 a tonne if Mr MITCHELL (Charters Towers) handled properly. If the situation continues (5.10 p.m.): I rise to support the Primary whereby inferior products find their way onto Industries Legislation Amendment Bill and to the Taiwanese market, soon nobody would be congratulate the Minister—as did the member interested in buying our product, especially as for Rockhampton—on his swift actions in there is a real risk of artificial products coming bringing this amendment before the into the competition. The Opposition certainly Parliament. I wish to speak only briefly on one supports the very strong moves that are of the provisions in the amendment Bill, that contained in the legislation. is, the amendment to the Forestry Act 1959, with special reference to sandalwood timber I would add that taking apparatus off harvesting. people is nothing new. It has been done in the fishing industry for about 20 years, where For the past four years it has been of anything associated with illegal fishing can be growing concern to the department, to people confiscated, impounded and ultimately working in the industry legally and to many returned to the Crown. It also happens in the land-holders in the north west and central west illegal drug industry. There is nothing new of Queensland that illegal harvesters are about that. vandalising the industry. That vandalism is occurring on a huge scale, and it is going on Part 3 of the Bill amends the Grain to a greater extent than many people realise. Industry (Restructuring) Act. The issue of A lot of people have made representations to sandalwood poaching is of grave concern and me on this issue. I have seen some of the it could have dire consequences if the problem sites. This vandalism is devastating to the is not rectified very quickly. However, if this industry. The problem is that these crooks are section is not in place by June the obtaining permits to work on freehold land. ramifications for the grain industry could be They feel that they are out of sight and out of terribly serious. The industry in Queensland mind when it comes to inspectors, and they could be the only deregulated market in are jumping the fence and well and truly Australia and would be able to be picked off getting stuck into the sandalwood on Crown by the other States. Queensland has got its land. The incorrect harvesting procedures act together in meeting the demands of the carried out by these vandals could see the competition policy. I do not believe that we industry wiped out and another valuable should be leading with our chin and I support sustainable resource lost forever. the Minister in extending the sunset clause from 30 June 1997 to 30 June 1998 when all The sandalwood tree has to be cut and indications are that the other States will have processed in a certain way. For a start, it has their acts together too. to be cut at a size that is in accordance with existing rules and regulations, and only when Part 4 of the Bill amends the Sugar the sapwood is ready to be harvested. When Industry Act as a result of the sugar industry the tree is cut and processed, the stump must review. It provides a restructure of the then be pulled and milled. In that way, the Queensland Sugar Corporation and the Sugar whole tree is used—from the top right to the Experiment Stations Board, which is renamed stump. Pulling the stump leaves the root the Bureau of Sugar Experiment Stations. system in the ground to regenerate. If the tree There was some concern about whether is processed properly, its roots can regenerate judicial review would occur in the arbitration up to five trees. Unfortunately, trees not ready decisions and I am pleased to see that that to be processed at the time of being cut down has been included in the Bill. The Scrutiny of by the illegal cutters are left to rot. The cutters 1542 Primary Industries Legislation Amendment Bill 7 May 1997 leave the stump in the ground. That does not search and seize any equipment that is used allow the forest to regenerate at all. These by these crooks. As the member has already people are real fly-by-nighters. They have no said, one must realise that most of the time respect for the future of the industry. All these officers are doing their jobs many members would realise that this is kilometres from major centres—or out in the irresponsible, both in environmental terms and sticks, as we say. in economic terms. Mr Schwarten: Up in that basalt country Mr Palaszczuk: Do you have names for it would be really good, wouldn't it? them? Mr MITCHELL: One cannot get out of Mr MITCHELL: Yes, I have their there in five minutes flat. I know that the names. I have an extremely thick file on them. member is well aware of the countryside up The coalition Government has now given there. If officers do not have the necessary these thieves a warning that continual illegal powers, we could lose the chance to bring and incorrect harvesting will not be tolerated. these thieves to justice and consequently to As the previous speaker mentioned, the protect a viable and sustainable industry for Minister has increased the fines by between Australia. Once again, I commend the Minister 900% and 1,400% in an attempt to protect the for these amendments and his swift action in sandalwood industry, which is estimated to be getting this Bill into the Parliament. worth between $4m and $7m annually to the Mr MULHERIN (Mackay) (5.15 p.m.): I Australian economy. rise to speak in support of the Primary An honourable member: How much? Industries Legislation Amendment Bill and to speak briefly on the sugar industry. The Mr MITCHELL: It is worth $4m to $7m amendments to the Sugar Industry Act 1991 annually to the Australian economy. are a result of the Sugar Industry Review The illegal harvesting of sandalwood has Working Party's recommendations. That brought the industry to its knees and has working party was set up by the Queensland resulted in the market price being cut by and Commonwealth Governments in almost half. About five years ago, the value of September 1995 to review the industry's sandalwood was about $2,170 a tonne. It now regulatory arrangements in Queensland within has a value of only $1,200 a tonne, which the context of National Competition Policy represents a fall of about 45% over the past principles. 18 months. The working party comprised the Because of the illegal harvesting—this is chairman, Mr R. Vaughan, who replaced Sir the main concern—and the depressed nature Eric Neal; Mr Harry Bonanno, representing of the market, 20 workers have been laid off in canegrowers; Mr Graeme Davies, representing the Richmond and Hughenden area. That is the Australian Sugar Milling Council; Mr R. mainly at the mill. Again, that was mentioned Venni, representing the Australian Cane by the previous speaker. This issue is of great Farmers Association; Mr Gentile, representing concern to me, as a sandalwood mill in the Sugar Users Group; Mr A. Newton, Richmond employs about 30 workers, and representing the Federal Government; and Mr sometimes a few more, for most of the year. Reilly, representing the State Government. That is hugely beneficial to the town of The working party presented its 350-page Richmond; it really helps it out. We all know report and recommendations to the about the flow-on effect of having these types Commonwealth and State Governments on of industries in small towns. For many years, 18 December last year. we have strived to have alternative industries The industry, which has been reviewed 11 developed in these centres, mainly to keep times since 1977, is worth about $2 billion a workers in the area and employed. I am year in export earnings, and exports nearly referring to industries in addition to the usual 90% of its production. The industry employs ones of beef and wool. I support the Minister thousands of workers up and down the wholeheartedly in getting these crooks, Queensland coast and has a direct impact on vandals—whatever we like to call them—out of almost every coastal town's economy, with the the industry. exception of Gladstone and Rockhampton. It I also support—and the member for is the biggest manufacturing industry in Rockhampton spoke about this—the call for Queensland, with about 30-odd sugar mills strengthening Forestry officers' powers to deal being supplied by 6,400 canegrowers. with these vandals. I notice in the Alert Digest The most contentious issues that the the concern about these officers not securing working party had to review were that of a warrants from a judge or judicial officer to need for a tariff on raw and refined sugars and 7 May 1997 Primary Industries Legislation Amendment Bill 1543 whether to retain single desk selling review, which could have serious ramifications arrangements for raw sugar sold on the for growers and millers. domestic and export markets. Within the Another sugar issue I wish to speak about context of the National Competition Policy is the price war that is taking place in the principles, the working party developed a refined sugar industry. This war will have a package of recommendations which satisfied detrimental effect on the industry and work Government policy on national competition but against the ultimate principles of competition retained the best features of the industry as set out under the National Competition which have guided and enabled the industry Policy and its regulator, the ACCC. Currently to grow and prosper. The key features of the there are four companies locked in fierce package are— competition for market share with no end in it satisfies the National Competition Policy; sight. If there is no resolution in the near it retains the acquisition and single desk future, some refinery companies would have selling arrangements for both domestic to consider their options in light of continuing and export markets; financial losses. If closures did occur, it would result in less competition, the loss of valuable it introduces a modified assignment export earnings, job losses and the real system but maintains the growers' right to possibility of refined sugars being imported negotiate collectively and further devolves from Thailand, Singapore or Malaysia to meet local decision making; and domestic requirements. it abolishes the sugar import tariff from There is a resolution to this conflict. It can July 1997 and phases out the price be solved by the ACCC relaxing its restrictions pooling differential by the end of the 1998 on joint venture arrangements between season. refinery companies. One such proposal which The other three elements of the package had the support of the former State Labor relate to producer pricing and individual grower Government but was canned by the ACCC contracts, confirming ownership of the bulk was the joint venture arrangement between sugar terminals to the industry and increasing Mackay Refined Sugars and CSR. If the joint industry representation on the Queensland venture arrangement were allowed to occur, Sugar Corporation. Mackay Refined Sugars would have been allowed access to CSR markets and in return The removal of the tariff will cost the CSR would close old refineries in Brisbane, Queensland industry $19m—something that Sydney and Perth and replace the refineries has not been applauded by all growers. with distribution centres. However, that has the support of the All refinery companies have suffered canegrowers organisation, which represents severe financial losses which have resulted in 6,400 growers. However, the removal of the lower dividends to shareholders. These losses tariff will assist to reduce cost in the area of have also affected their core operations of value adding, such as the food, confectionery producing raw sugar. Due to continuing losses, and beverage industries. some millers have canned expansion which The retention of the acquisition and single would allow an increase in their milling capacity desk selling arrangements for both the to meet grower expansion. Millers who have domestic and export market will provide not been involved in refining raw sugar have stability to the industry and will leave the upgraded their milling capacity to meet growers in control of their industry by legislative expansion by growers. A good example of this arrangements vested in the Queensland is the Proserpine Cooperative Sugar Mill which Sugar Corporation. The loss of the single desk has embarked on an ambitious expansion selling arrangements would have undermined program. Millers unable to expand their and ultimately destroyed export selling crushing capacity to meet grower expansion arrangements, which give the grower the best are losing valuable export earnings in the raw possible price for raw sugar. One has only to sugar market. look at the cattle industry to see that the Mackay Refined Sugars has put the joint producers have lost control of their industry. venture proposal with CSR back on the table The industry has accepted the and is currently negotiating with the ACCC to recommendations as part of an overall allow the joint venture proposal to proceed. If package which will allow the industry to get on the ACCC relaxes its conditions on joint with its business without any further reviews for ventures in the sugar refining sector and at least 10 years. I believe any tinkering with allows the joint venture as proposed by the recommendations will bring on another Mackay Refined Sugars and CSR to proceed, 1544 Primary Industries Legislation Amendment Bill 7 May 1997 consumers in the food, confectionery and the Bill will extend the existing sunset date beverage industries will not be disadvantaged provisions for the exercise of certain statutory by the reduction in the number of refinery powers from 30 June 1997 by one year to 30 operators and should have no fear of price June 1998. As we have said, we support that. increases. As from 1 July the import tariff on We understand the reason for that move, and refined sugar will be abolished, which we do not have any problems with it. effectively puts a cap on pricing of refined I want to make some comments for the sugar. If prices do increase to a point where record about cereal grain production in the Australian refined sugar industry price is Queensland. Cereal grain production in 1995- higher than refined sugar prices in Malaysia, 96 was down due to unfavourable conditions, Singapore or Thailand, then industry users will mainly the lack of rain. More than 200,000 import refined sugar from Asia and, as a result hectares of land that was planted with crop of importing, would bring the domestic price was not harvested because of the conditions down. that prevailed. While the harvested crop of I urge the Minister to get out and see first- wheat and barley for 1995-96 was up 250% hand the problems associated with the on the previous year, that year saw the near competition in the refinery industry and make devastation of the entire harvest. There was sure he does all he can to make it possible for hardly any production at all in Queensland a joint venture between CSR and Mackay because of the drought. Even though the level Refined Sugars to proceed. I also urge the of production was up 250%, it was still well Honourable Premier and the Honourable below the tonnages which would have been Treasurer with the Primary Industries Minister achieved last year had normal conditions to put pressure on their Federal colleagues prevailed. and the ACCC to relax its restrictions on the High grain production requires the right joint venture proposal and allow the proposal seasons. This is a point I want to make further to proceed for the good of the industry, the comment on. The message that I have for the State and the economy. I support the Bill. Government and for the people of Mr PEARCE (Fitzroy) (5.24 p.m.): In Queensland is that the drought is not over. I supporting the legislation, I endorse the like to take every opportunity I can to remind remarks made by the Opposition the people of this place, particularly those who spokesperson in his contribution to the represent electorates in the south-east corner, debate. that we still face a very serious situation in Mr Johnson: Where is he? Queensland. Mr PEARCE: I believe that members Mr Johnson: It's critical. opposite know who the honourable member Mr PEARCE: It is critical. I hold grave for Rockhampton is because he has made his concerns for the producers in my electorate in mark in this place. He is getting across the particular. That is why I like to take the portfolio that he shadows very, very well. He is opportunity whenever I can to—— certainly earning very quickly the respect of Mr Elliott: The northern downs, too. rural producers in Queensland, so members opposite should not underestimate him. Mr PEARCE: I was hoping the member would be in the Chamber because I hoped he Mr Johnson: I'll teach him a few of the might back me up later on. tricks of the bush. I understand that 17 shires and parts of Mr PEARCE: I am told that the Minister five other shires remain drought declared and has more tricks than a magician! that 520-odd individual properties in 33 other I want to talk about two aspects of the Bill: shires remain drought declared—in total, 22% the amendments to the Grain Industry of the State. I suggest that because of the (Restructuring) Act and the amendments to rain and the change in the weather patterns, the Forestry Act. As to the grain industry—just some of those shires and some of those because other States are not prepared at this properties will be removed from the drought- time to commence reviews of grain legislation declared list. We may see that occur in the under the National Competition Policy, this coming weeks. However, I cannot see that Parliament cannot put its head in the sand happening in central Queensland. I would be and put at risk grain contracts because of the most concerned for my people if drought slackness of other States. I believe that the declarations were revoked. Even though there National Competition Policy requires all parties was good and useful rain in March associated to be involved. The amendments to the Grain with Cyclone Justin, we have not received the Industry (Restructuring) Act 1991 proposed in follow-up rains that are important to people on 7 May 1997 Primary Industries Legislation Amendment Bill 1545 the land for the sowing of their grain and the Mr Springborg interjected. fattening of their cattle. Mr PEARCE: I take that interjection. I The other point is that while there have know that what the honourable member is been reasonable rains and we see the country saying is correct, but I am very angered by looking good—we see a lot of grass on the having these sorts of things said about rural country—in my area we still have not had producers and I think that the people in sufficient rain to create run-off to fill the water Canberra really have to look at themselves storages and creeks that are required by rural and get a better understanding of what they producers to enable them to continue are actually talking about and what they are operating, particularly when they are breeding trying to do. livestock. The picture is that, although things Mr Palaszczuk: The National Party in have improved in certain places, there are still Canberra has lost its rural base. regions where the position is critical. As I said, the lack of follow-up rains is a real concern for Mr PEARCE: That is the problem that producers in my area. The worst areas of my Federal members have when they go to electorate—and the member for Charters Canberra. It is okay when we are out in the Towers would be aware of this, as would the country with our people, but when—— member for Gregory—are east of Capella, Mr Schwarten: What about our Federal Middlemount, east of Dysart, in the northern member? parts of Duaringa, Dingo, the Gogango area Mr PEARCE: Who is that? Who are you and also around Rockhampton in the referring to? Richlands, Alton Downs, Dalma, Marmor and Bajool areas. Again, although we have had Mr SPEAKER: Order! rain and the country looks okay, there has Mr PEARCE: I will get back to the been no follow-up rain and we are going into debate. I am trying to get to the sense of winter without the backup in rainfall that is very humour of the member for Rockhampton important for pasture growth and for the filling because the point he raised is quite of dams and creeks. humorous, actually. I will say again to the House and to the I say that any restructuring of the scheme people of south-east Queensland that they that assists the heroes of primary production in should not think that, because there are good this State should stay. We should be doing reports on television, the drought is what we can to help those people who stay on over—because it certainly is not. I flew to the land and who go through these difficult Canberra a couple of weeks ago and I looked times, and not just turn our backs on them. out of the plane to take notice of the country This is what I am afraid the report, which I and I can tell honourable members that down mentioned earlier, is all about. I would hope through New South Wales up into Queensland that those politicians have a good look at the it is very dry, and I am told that the dry report and change it. They should go out there conditions are slowly moving north again. I in the country and talk to people who are think that we are in for a pretty rough time dealing with rural producers on the again this year. ground—talk to rural support workers; talk to One matter of concern—and I hope that financial counsellors—and just see how tough members of the National Party will support me it is out there and try to get an understanding here—is that I have joined with producer of what is happening. groups and their representatives in expressing Now I would like to turn very briefly to the concern at the report into the Rural amendments to the Forestry Act. I do not Adjustment Scheme. I understand the report know how accurate my figures are and the suggests that the Federal Government should Minister might pick me up on them, particularly dump the drought relief scheme. I feel for the when I get to the figures on sandalwood. I rural producers of this State who have been understand that in Queensland timber labelled as relying on Government assistance production in 1996-97 is expected to be about because of a failure to improve productivity 2.4 to 2.5 million cubic metres and that the and because of poor attitudes. That has to be gross value at the stump is expected to be the greatest insult to rural producers that I some $88m, which is up $6m on the 1995-96 have ever heard. These poor buggers do not production year. The legislative amendments ask for the seasons to be the way they are. before the House with regard to the Forestry They cannot tell the weather when to rain and Act 1959 will increase penalties for illegally when not to rain. To have people who come removing and obtaining forest products or from Canberra writing reports and making quarry materials from Crown land. It provides those—— for confiscation of equipment used, or 1546 Primary Industries Legislation Amendment Bill 7 May 1997 intended to be used, or in connection with or is can do with it—and even the oil has got a evidence of such illegal activities. These minor scent—— amendments should overcome technical Mr Schwarten: Incense. difficulties in the Act. Mr PEARCE: Incense or nonsense? I note in the reasons for the Bill that What could I do with a bit of sandalwood? significant amounts of sandalwood timber are That is the question. I have actually been being illegally harvested from Crown lands in surprised at the quality of this timber. It is a western Queensland. I went looking for a little beautiful timber and I can understand why it is bit of information on sandalwood and I have so expensive. some figures here, although I do not know how accurate they are. Again, I ask the I understand that under the current Minister if he is aware of how accurate the legislation there have been only one or two prosecutions. I ask the Minister: is the reason figures that I am mentioning are. I would not for this just simply a lack of resources or are mind knowing for my own information because there problems with the powers available there is a group of people from Western under the Forestry Act? One thought that I Australia trying to sell sandalwood plantations had was that the takers of sandalwood from in Western Australia and I think it may be a Crown land were often able to produce a letter little bit of a scam. I am doing some research or a permit of authority to take sandalwood into it at the moment to try to determine how from private property, which made it difficult for risky this proposal is. an officer of the department to actually breach The notes that I have on it say— somebody under the Act. I find that argument a little bit difficult to accept because, if we do a "Sandalwood is the most valuable timber produced in the world. Last year little bit of detective work and follow there were sales recorded in Taiwan of investigations through, we should be able to Indian sandalwood at US$15,000 (AUS get people and take action against them for $19,200) per ton and this year's sales their breaches of the Act. If permits were have been made also in Taiwan at monitored more closely and private US$18,000 (AUS $23,000) per ton for landowners made more accountable to the timber containing 6% oil." process, that would be one way of ensuring that more prosecutions take place. It is not an I do not know how accurate those figures are. easy answer; I appreciate that. I understand The article goes on— the problem with distance when we are talking "For the past 150 years a species of about western Queensland, and it is not easy sandalwood has been harvested in the to address those problems. dry land regions of Western Australia and There is only one concern that I have with exported into Asia. This species of the Act—and I think the member for sandalwood contains only 2% oil and Rockhampton touched on that—and that is currently sells into the Asian market at the additional powers of seizure without a $8,800 per ton." warrant in the Act. We will always have this little bit of a problem that such provisions leave As I said earlier, there are some things the process open to abuse. In this situation, I happening in Western Australia. The article recognise the need for the forest officers to goes on— have these powers simply by the nature of the "Field trials are now underway to industry. In supporting the legislation, I say it is induce and accelerate heartwood growth good legislation and I believe that it will by a combination of techniques of putting achieve the aims of those people who have the trees under stress and applying put it together and of the department. systematic chemical applications. Early Mr STEPHAN (Gympie) (5.40 p.m.): I test results are most encouraging. The will not take up too much time of the House. stump and root system of the tree However, I am concerned about the high level contains a significant amount of of theft of sandalwood timber from Crown heartwood and this is recovered by pulling land. As other members have pointed out, this the stump from the ground which is the is of very real concern not only to those who normal practice adopted in harvesting are living on the land but to many others who native sandalwood in remote regions of rely on the industry for a living and those who Western Australia." rely on the valued articles that are produced I have some of the samples of this from sandalwood. sandalwood and there is no doubt that it is a I wish to inform the House about the way beautiful piece of timber. The things that one in which legitimate harvesters go about 7 May 1997 Primary Industries Legislation Amendment Bill 1547 harvesting sandalwood. First of all, they even think of taking away that subsidy sample the tree by cutting a branch and assistance would be astronomically foolish, inspecting the end grain of that branch. That and it would go down as one of the most then gives them an idea of what the tree is stupid decisions that anyone could make. like—whether it has too much sap in it to be of I did say that I would not speak for too any use at all, or whether it is ready to be long. I congratulate the Minister on his utilised. This requires a well-developed art. decision to bring this legislation before the However, as the Minister pointed out in his House, and I wish it a speedy passage second-reading speech, illegal harvesters cut through the House. down the whole tree, leaving it to rot if there is too much sapwood to make it worth taking. Mr NUNN (Hervey Bay) (5.46 p.m.): I, too, wish to speak about the sandalwood In relation to the forestry program—we industry. Members will probably be sick of hear over and over the same story, namely, hearing about it by the time I am finished. that foresters want to look after their product to However, I believe that the Government could ensure that it will be there for this generation put as much effort into the preservation of the and for many other generations to come. cypress pine forests as it is putting into the Sandalwood is utilised from the root right up to preservation of the sandalwood industry. the crown. This reminds me of red cedar. In the past—say, 100 or 150 years ago—red In order to keep in touch with conditions cedar was in abundance in many parts of prevailing in western Queensland, I was able Queensland and in other parts of Australia. to accompany the now shadow Minister for However, it was not considered valuable in Primary Industries on a tour through parts of those days. But now, red cedar is a very the outback. We were not really there on valuable timber to the extent that, if it is Primary Industries business; we were there on available, people almost fight amongst Emergency Services business, but we did take themselves to get hold of the butts, stumps the time to look into various aspects of primary and roots of the cedar tree in order to utilise it production in the west in an effort to find out to make very ornate products. The the problems that are besetting them. Bearing craftsmanship that goes into cedar products in mind the level of unemployment prevailing makes one realise their potential. However, if in western towns, I was very keen to look at timber—and in this case I am talking about secondary value-adding industries and, in sandalwood—is left without anybody taking particular, the sandalwood industry. Although it cognisance of it and making sure that it can was by chance, we came across the be made into products of value, we will not sandalwood mill. When I saw the sign, it have a timber industry that is of any value to occurred to me that I had read years before the next generation, let alone in 100 years' that they had ceased exporting sandalwood time. because it had been cut out. But obviously that was not the case. What had happened The Scrutiny of Legislation Committee was that it had been cut to such an extent that made some comments about this particular it had not regenerated, but in time it did. piece of legislation. It found that documents, equipment, gear, machinery and plant can be Mr Hobbs: Twenty-five years. seized if it is reasonably suspected that they Mr NUNN: Yes. I will come to that later. are being used in the illegal harvesting of They were able to return to a viable industry, forest products. The committee stated that a especially in the Richmond and Hughenden forestry officer will be able to apprehend areas. When we called to see the proprietor of people with those items before they do any the sandalwood mill in Winton, he was harm. Basically, the committee has stated that extremely pleased to see us. He was really it is very important that those people are surprised to meet some people who were brought to heel and that we maintain the actually keen to help him. We had a long talk sandalwood industry. When considering the with him. He was able to tell us that he had forestry industry generally, we need to take not been approached by the local member, into account that the Conservator of Forests is nor had he been contacted by the Minister. I there to do just that: conserve forests for many guess that was only an oversight on their part, years to come. but that should not have happened. They The member for Fitzroy made some should be aware of what is going on in their comments about the Rural Adjustment own sectors of responsibility. Scheme. He is right. I congratulate him on That proprietor was very knowledgeable that. Governments need to be able to assist in about the industry and was keen to maintain this very real time of need. Many rural the environmental sustainability of the producers are looking for that assistance. To resource. He had been complaining for some 1548 Primary Industries Legislation Amendment Bill 7 May 1997 time that sandalwood pirates were illegally Those people all add to Australia's export harvesting the resource. This was causing economy. They are very important to the immense damage not only to the resource economy of the bush. I do not need to tell itself but also to the economic viability of the honourable members that they are hard men industry. in a hard country doing a hard job, but they I believe that the Minister would have enjoy doing it and we enjoyed meeting them. some knowledge of the industry himself. It is If honourable members have a day or two to interesting to note that, whereas there is a 10- spare, they might care to add to their year harvesting time for the crop at present, it knowledge by attending the Boulia Camel takes around 20 to 25 years for it to Races to be held on 20 July this year. regenerate to the stage at which it can be Mr Johnson: You would be an old harvested again. This is largely due to the camel rider, wouldn't you? effect that illegal harvesting is having on the sustainability of the yield. Not only do illegal Mr NUNN: No, I have never tried and I harvesting methods cut short the life of the have not watched. harvest, but they abolish the chance to If one goes to the Boulia camel races, guarantee continuous supply to overseas one will have a great time. I will guarantee buyers. I believe that, in common with many honourable members that—and the other export industries in Australia, it is honourable Minister for Transport might care extremely important to maintain the supply to to take note of this—unlike camels, it will not overseas markets, or they will go somewhere be a long time between drinks at the Boulia else where they can be assured of continuity Camel Races. of supply. That is extremely important to the people with whom we deal overseas. Not only Mr PURCELL (Bulimba) (5.52 p.m.): I do illegal harvesters disadvantage the industry am mindful of the time and the program of the but they also jeopardise the revenue that the Leader of the House, so I will keep my Government receives and the livelihood of mill remarks to a minimum. I will touch on a few workers. aspects of the legislation that have not been mentioned in the debate. I draw the Minister's It must be remembered that the mill in attention to the importance of training his Richmond is the largest employer outside of officers in the operation of the new legislation, the local authority. That is very important to so that they do know what they can do and their economy. This Bill will be important to the what they cannot do. In that way, they will industry. As I said before, I support the Bill. I enforce this legislation correctly. I point out to am particularly keen on the provisions of the the Minister that he should not allow those Bill that give greater powers to forest officers to officers to go out one-out. They should at least police it. They really should have similar go out two-out, because, as a result of the powers to fishing inspectors to stop and amounts of money involved, people who search. would be illegally harvesting sandalwood Mr Elliott: This gives them the same probably would not be people whom they powers as the fishing inspectors. would want to take lightly. They will need their Mr NUNN: They deserve them and they wits about them. need them to make the legislation work. Mr Schwarten: You would want to be Needless to say, I support the increased able to fight. penalties contained in the Bill. They should act as a deterrent to further illegal harvesting Mr PURCELL: I could probably get the activities. Minister a few recruits to help him. In closing, I would like to recommend to As we will not be debating the clauses all members of this House, especially those during the Committee stage, I point out to the Liberal members who are preparing to winter Minister that I would like some information as down in leafy suburbs, that they should go out to whether any value is being added to that into the country where there are some very valuable resource that we are exporting. As unusual industries indeed. Among the most was mentioned, enrichment of jobs is very interesting characters are two camel trappers important. Adding value to those products whom we met at the Dajarra Hotel. They were would be very important to small towns in quite interesting. western Queensland. After this legislation is enacted, the Minister could perhaps knock off Mr Pearce: Were they thirsty? a few of those people who are pinching large Mr NUNN: I will tell the honourable quantities and the department could use the member about that in a minute. fines to conduct research into value adding. 7 May 1997 Siting of New Prisons 1549

I turn to the 12-month extension of the SITING OF NEW PRISONS sunset clause for the grain industry. I believe Mr BARTON (Waterford) (6 p.m.): I that we will be back in here in 12 months move— extending that again. I do not think that 12 months will be long enough, because other "That this Parliament condemns the States will be not ready. To put our barley Minister for Police and Corrective Services contracts with Japan and other countries at and Minister for Racing for— risk would be stupid because of the high his callous and hurried siting of two premiums that our producers receive for barley new prisons just 500 metres from for human consumption. States such as New Riverhills' residents' back fences and South Wales, our nearest competitor, will not less than 1,000 metres from the local be anywhere near ready to go into an open primary school; market—if such a thing exists in world markets the fact that he did not at any time today, and I do not believe that it does. We inform local residents of his plans for would receive a caning from New South their community; Wales, other States and from overseas. With those remarks, I support the Bill. his complete lack of consultation with the local residents until he was forced Hon. T. J. PERRETT (Barambah— to consult—some 11 or 12 months Minister for Primary Industries, Fisheries and after his original decision was made; Forestry) (5.56 p.m.), in reply: I am running out of time and I have a few points to make. This his failure to consult in good faith with Bill refers to amendments to the Grain Industry the local protest group, CRAMP— and his failure to honour 1995 Restructuring Act 1991 and the Sugar Industry Coalition election commitments not Act 1991. Those amendments are based on to site the prisons any closer to some of the report of the working party, Sugar residents' properties than existing Winning Globally. I table that report for the facilities; and benefit of members who have not seen it. The other Act amended in this legislation is the This Parliament calls on the Minister to— Forestry Act. Some of the previous speakers place an immediate moratorium on alluded to problems raised by the Scrutiny of all site planning and contractual and Legislation Committee. I had discussions this tendering work associated with the morning with the Chair of that committee, the construction of the new 600-cell member for Cunningham. We were able to men's prison and the 200-cell work through those satisfactorily. women's prison at Wacol while he In the interests of time, rather than sum consults with the community; up in any detail, I thank all honourable explore the possibility of siting these members from both sides of the House for two prisons elsewhere in South East their support, particularly the Opposition Queensland; and spokesman, and particularly for their support enter in good faith into a of the stronger penalties for the illegal taking comprehensive period of consultation of sandalwood. A couple of questions were with local residents that genuinely raised by the members for Fitzroy and Bulimba explores the possibility of siting the as to value and value adding. Rather than prisons on other sites (or leaves taking up the time of House now, I will take residents confident that the proposed those questions on board and get back to the correctional facilities will be members. constructed in a way that minimises Motion agreed to. the impact on themselves, their families and their homes)." This motion is about achieving a fair result Committee for the people whose homes neighbour the Clauses 1 to 44 and Schedule, as read, Wacol Prison precinct. It is all about forcing agreed to. this Minister, the Minister for Police and Bill reported, without amendment. Corrective Services, and the member for Mount Ommaney to honour their election commitments. This motion not only raises Third Reading criticism of this Minister for his actions—or should I say lack of action—in failing to consult Bill, on motion of Mr Perrett, by leave, at an early date, failing to consult read a third time. comprehensively and failing to consult in a fair 1550 Siting of New Prisons 7 May 1997 manner when he did start to talk to affected of the Moreton facility at Wacol. Those are local residents. The motion also proposes a hardly the actions of a Minister who is now reasonable solution, that is, a moratorium on saying that he will phase out Moreton prison further decisions while the Minister reconsiders and demolish it. possible options and does what he should Cabinet submissions are not drawn up have done from the very beginning: consult overnight. The Minister must have begun work thoroughly with the community. on that submission immediately he took office. An incident having occurred in the public Again, did the Minister consult with the gallery— community? No! What did the community's Mr SPEAKER: Order! I called for order local member, the member for Mount in the Chamber and I call for order in the Ommaney, do? Nothing! Did he oppose this? public gallery. Members of the public are No! Did he advise his constituents that the allowed into the gallery to listen to the debate. coalition and he had already broken such a In recent times, it seems to be the practice strongly put election commitment? I will table a that people come into this Chamber and copy of that election pamphlet. He certainly did not take that action! assume that they can make a "spontaneous" noise. I can assure them that if there is any There were then a whole raft of further noise and clapping from the gallery, I opportunities for this Minister and this quisling will have them removed from the gallery. I call member for Mount Ommaney to advise the the member for Waterford. neighbours of the prison site of what the Government was doing. Those opportunities Mr BARTON: In recent weeks, the presented themselves when tenders were Opposition's interaction with the members of called, when the decision was made on who Concerned Residents Against More Prisons, or the successful tenderer was, and when initial CRAMP, has convinced it that they are a funding was provided in the 1996-97 Budget responsible, fair-minded group genuinely concerned about their communities, their in September of last year. Did the Minister and families and their homes. They have been the member for Mount Ommaney tell the treated shabbily by this Minister, this residents what it meant for them? Again, the Government and, sadly, I must say, by their answer is no! local member. I welcome their presence in the When did the member finally act? On 18 public gallery this evening. February this year, after the community had found out about the proposals by other In regard to siting new prisons, nothing means, CRAMP was formed and a public could be more basic than consultation with the meeting was called. That is when the residents neighbours of the prison site. There is also found out—almost a year after this Minister nothing more basic in politics than honouring had begun the process to construct these new election commitments. In the 1995 election prisons. Even then the response by the campaign, the now member for Mount member for Mount Ommaney has been only a Ommaney, in an election pamphlet printed feeble attempt to steer the community towards and authorised by Jim Barron of 132 Lutwyche accepting this Government's position. Road, Windsor—in effect, the Liberals' State campaign director at that time—headed It is up to the Opposition to state its view "Warning—beware of Labor lies" stated— on the proposed new women's correctional facility and the new men's facility at Wacol. It is "You have my guarantee that the as follows: Labor will give an absolute coalition will not be constructing any guarantee that it will comprehensively consult prison buildings closer to our suburbs than with the residents involved on their issues of currently exist." concern. In saying that, the Opposition clarifies That promise was clear enough, but did the "consultation" as not meaning, "We have member mean it? The answer is no! Did the determined our position and now we have told coalition have any intention of honouring the you about it." Every endeavour will be made to promise? Again, the answer is no! What did work through the issues and reach agreed this Minister do after attaining Government in solutions. This consultation will include the late February 1996? Four weeks later—four consideration of possible alternative suitable short weeks later—on 25 March the Minister sites, should they be available to us when gained Cabinet approval for construction on Labor achieves Government. Labor is deeply this site at Wacol of a new men's prison, concerned that that option may not be SEQ1, and a new women's prison, SEQW. available to it if firm construction contracts Also, the Minister's press release stated that have been finalised and signed, and he gained extra funding for the refurbishment particularly if construction has begun. 7 May 1997 Siting of New Prisons 1551

Currently, there is a window of opportunity I would like to ask the Minister another that this Minister can and should take. It is rhetorical question: why is the coalition forging essential that right now, before actual ahead with these proposals in contrast with construction contracts are signed, this Minister the very firm election commitments that it places an immediate moratorium on site gave? It cannot get much firmer than having planning, contractual planning and tendering the Liberal Party State Director and State until he completes the necessary consultation campaign director as the authorising person with the neighbouring community. This on the campaign pamphlet that was put out consultation is what the Minister and the by the now member for Mount Ommaney. It Corrective Services Commission should have seems that the coalition honours only the done from the very beginning. This promises that suit it. When it is something like consultation should include the Minister taking the tolls off the Sunshine Motorway, it honouring his and the member for Mount says, "That was an election commitment. We Ommaney's pre-1995 election commitments have to honour it." However, when it comes to that the sites of any new correctional facilities something like the lives of people who are will not be closer to our suburbs than exist living next to a facility, the coalition hides what currently. If this Minister and his partner in it is doing from those people for 12 months deception, the member for Mount Ommaney, and then refuses to honour its election will not honour their coalition promises, then commitment and refuses to consult in a proper Labor will certainly attempt to do so. However, manner. I say again that the opportunity may not exist This motion gives this Minister the for Labor if too much time passes and firm opportunity to correct the wrongs have been contractual arrangements have been put in done to these affected residents. Belated place that finalise the construction of those action is better than no action at all. I new facilities. commend the motion to the House. Labor will exhaust consultation on the Mr PALASZCZUK (Inala) (6.09 p.m.): I actual site locations within the Wacol prisons formally second the motion and in so precinct, if that is the best option. It will finalise doing—— consultation on the phasing out of Moreton A and Moreton B and their demolition, and the Mr Cooper interjected. number of cells and prisoners to be held in the Mr PALASZCZUK: There is no need for Wacol precinct. It will also consult on you to come in with that sort of nonsense at appropriate buffer zones between the new the moment. Your turn will come when you prisons and residential areas as well as public reply. safety issues and the necessary interaction Mr SPEAKER: Order! The honourable between the community and the management member for Inala will refer to—— of Corrective Services to ensure that these facilities are good neighbours. Mr Cooper: You're a cream puff. Mr SPEAKER: Order! The Honourable I know that this Minister of old will come Minister will not refer to the member as "you" back and say that Labor did not have a across the Chamber. position on this matter and that is why he had to step in rapidly and start the construction of Mr PALASZCZUK: Too often politicians these new correctional facilities. I have no become absorbed in their busy workloads and doubt that he will make that claim. However, I forget that the reason they went into politics in want to place on the record that Labor had the first place was try to improve things for the very firm proposals in place. Labor was community. Part of that is to consult with the committed to the new Woodford facility, and it local community. was under construction. Labor was committed Nowadays "consultation" is a much- to a new justice precinct at the old Boggo misused concept that Governments use in a Road prison site, which would have included a variety of ways, often to justify decisions that new reception and remand centre. That was a they have made already or to avoid making a painful decision for Labor to make, but it had decision at all. Consultation can be for a range been made. That facility would have released of purposes. The most important thing is that it the Arthur Gorrie reception and remand centre be an honest process. People have to at Wacol to allow it to become a medium- understand the process that they are about to security correctional facility. That combination embark upon so that they can make decisions of new cells at Woodford and released cells at about whether involvement in the process is Arthur Gorrie would have provided for the worth their while at all. So from the outset it is immediately foreseeable demand. That is very important that participants know what is clear. possible. Is the Government saying that it 1552 Siting of New Prisons 7 May 1997 wants to provide information, or is it offering to To my rear were 2 members of the listen? If it is going to listen, is there a Dog Squad, being handlers, and also guarantee that the Government will act on another male person. It was this male what the community says? What is negotiable person who made the aforementioned and what is not? All of these things need to be comment to the dog handlers. made clear at the very beginning of the I can describe this person as 'He has exercise. short dark hair, fairly short in height, has a Unfortunately, in this case no consultation moustache I believe, he was wearing a at all was entered into with the local white shirt and dark trousers. He was well community. And what of the local community? groomed'." Who are these people? They are the decent, If this is the way that the Government—— hardworking residents of Riverhills and the Mr Cooper: Who was this person? Centenary suburbs who thought that they were going to live in a place where they could Mr PALASZCZUK: It is up to the enjoy a lifestyle overlooking rolling hills and Minister to find out. If this is the way that the trees. However, what do they find? They find Government operates in the consultation by chance that the Government is going to process with hardworking and decent impose two additional correctional facilities Queenslanders, I feel very sorry for upon their lifestyle! Queensland. It is a sad day when something like this happens. Mr T. B. Sullivan: Not by chance, by deception. Time expired. Mr HARPER (Mount Ommaney) Mr PALASZCZUK: Yes, by deception. (6.14 p.m.): I rise to speak in the debate on a Some of the people who are in the gallery this very important and emotional issue for the evening fought the same fight back in 1989. community of Mount Ommaney and the Unlike this year, at that time a truly honourable Centenary suburbs. I am very pleased to take member represented them. Angus Innes took part in the debate so that I can put some of the fight to the Government on behalf of the the issues straight and outline the extensive people of the Centenary suburbs and he won. representations that I have made on behalf of The people went away thinking, "There will be the local community and the reactions of the no more prisons for our area". But how wrong Government and the Minister. they were! Within weeks of coming to power, the Government by deception had decided to Mr McGrady interjected. impose two additional correctional facilities on Mr HARPER: The member for Mount the hardworking, decent people of the Isa is interjecting, but I doubt that he would Centenary suburbs. even know where the electorate was, let alone where the land was. That puts his comments I turn to the issue of how the Government into context! consults with people. The Minister attended a public meeting which was held to discuss the Most of what the motion calls for is prison, and I give him credit where credit is already being done. The motion is just a due. The Minister listened to the people and cynical, last-minute move by the Opposition to visited some of their homes to see the suddenly get involved after months of silence. situation for himself. Unbeknown to him, That silence is emphasised if one looks at the something occurred which I believe needs to record of last year's Estimates committee, be pointed out to the House. A statutory when the shadow Minister did not say boo declaration signed by Jane Mary Falls states— after the Minister commented on the issue. Another issue that the member for Inala tried "I was present at a public meeting at to put over is that we are talking about building 4pm on Thursday 17th April, 1997 at a additional prisons; once again, the member is site off Grindle Road, Wacol. This meeting speaking a mistruth in an effort to was convened to protest the proposed misrepresent the position. building of 2 new correctional facilities. At my request, the Minister has agreed to Whilst following at the rear of a group various discussions with the community and of citizens, which was being led off the he has agreed to have Corrective Services land by the Minister for Corrective Commission staff explore various options. I Services, Mr. Cooper, I overheard a have discussed various siting options with the comment by a male person to my rear staff. Given the misrepresentation by the which stated, 'We should turn the dogs on members opposite, it needs to be pointed out these people'. quite clearly that we are discussing 7 May 1997 Siting of New Prisons 1553 replacement prisons; the old prisons will go. The Government, the Minister and our The Minister has already committed to that leaders have listened to my representations. I and he will put it in writing that the old prisons will continue to press the Minister, the Premier will go. and the Treasurer to keep taking the various We must look at the security of the old issues into account to achieve the best Moreton and Wacol prison, which is now outcomes for the local community. The Moreton A and Moreton B. The escape record Minister knows that I will not give my final and of the prisons is certainly not desirable. The overall support to the project unless all of new prisons will overcome the security these issues are satisfactorily addressed. problems experienced by the old ones. We Time expired. also need to look at prisoner numbers. For Mr HOLLIS (Redcliffe) (6.19 p.m.): I am instance, at the end of February, once the almost breathless following the speech of the prisons are commissioned the net numbers will member for Mount Ommaney. Deceit! How actually be slightly fewer than at present. can one ever believe the Liberal Party again? I Members opposite have also mentioned the am pleased to rise in support of this motion. I type of prisoners who will be housed in the can understand the fears of the Concerned new facility, but there will be no change in the Residents Against More Prisons. The fact is classification of prisoners. I have had that currently there are approximately 1,800 extensive discussions with the Minister and his prisoners in the Wacol prison and the full State staff about the buffer zones, the former prison prison population is 3,500. The two new gaols farmland and facilities for the community. will add a further 800 prisoners to the area. It Such areas are to be retained. We have also is no wonder that the residents are worried. had lengthy discussions about landscaping They have only recently heard about the riots the new facility. in the wonderfully well-built gaol that the Since discussions with the Minister present Minister commissioned at Woodford. commenced in June/July 1995, he has always What would happen if a riot erupted in been open to discuss with me the various one of these gaols? Within minutes, the rest issues. I commend him for that. I will put a few of the gaols would be in the same position. It of the facts on record, to which the Opposition is not surprising that groups such as CRAMP spokesman for prisons may like to listen put out statements headed "Escaped because obviously he is not acquainted with prisoners hold school children hostage". the facts and has not researched the matter, Interestingly, this week, a fellow called Edwin as was shown by his speech tonight. Eastwood appeared on one of the current In Rob Borbidge's campaign launch, the affairs programs. He was the architect of a building of the Wacol men's prison and the prison escape and hostage situation in a new women's prison was discussed. In July, school in Victoria some 30 years ago. I knew Russell Cooper issued a press release about that fellow in gaol. I knew what he did. the new replacement gaol at Wacol and the An honourable member interjected. new women's prison. In a letter dated 14 July, in response to certain assertions made by the Mr HOLLIS: I was a warder at sitting Labor member and candidate, I stated Pentridge. I knew the make-up of that fellow. If that we would be building a prison at Wacol. I was a resident in that area, I would be Opposition members are entirely wrong when worried to see that number of prisoners there. they say that we have been hiding from this Ultimately, somebody will escape. No prison is issue and well they know it. In the 1996 so secure that nobody can escape it. That is a Estimates committee hearings, the matter was very real worry. When more prisons are built, detailed by the Minister and the Opposition the odds increase that more escapes will take spokesman who led the debate tonight did not place. say one word on the issue. On 6 November This is one of the worst deceits that I have 1996, the local Neighbourhood Watch seen in my time as a politician. I refer to the newsletter detailed a meeting which I attended warning which Bob Harper, the Liberal to discuss the issue. That meeting was member for Mount Ommaney, put out. He reported on the front page of the Satellite said, "Beware of Labor lies." However, all of us newspaper on 13 November. In February, an in the State of Queensland should now invitation to a meeting was sent by the beware of Liberal lies. We see the pure deceit Community Advisory Board to various of a Liberal member who, with the full support community groups. I attended that meeting. of his party, said, "You have my guarantee The list goes on. The Minister has had that the coalition will not be constructing any consultation. prison buildings closer to our suburbs than 1554 Siting of New Prisons 7 May 1997 currently exist", and yet we saw what Mr HEALY (Toowoomba North) happened today. (6.25 p.m.): I am delighted to support the How could one ever again believe the Minister for Police and Corrective Services in coalition parties? That would now be this debate tonight. I am delighted to have an impossible. This will haunt the Government opportunity to highlight the hopeless until the next election and the one thereafter. mismanagement of the State's corrective The member for Mount Ommaney said services system by those members sitting previously that he had consulted with his opposite. As the Minister will correctly point community. Today, we heard the Minister say, out, it was his vision and energy that saw the in the presence of the TAB people, that he prison system in this State overhauled. He has consulted with them. What did they do? turned that system around and he left it ticking They clapped and jeered because the Minister beautifully, with not one prisoner doubled up was exposed for his lack of consultation. and without any of the chronic overcrowding It is all right for the Minister to go to the which had previously riddled the system and bush, which he did—and I have read a file which returned to haunt it within a few short about how the Minister went to the bush and years of the incompetents opposite taking consulted with local residents about whether over. they wanted a prison in their area. He went all Instead of picking up the ball and running over the west and he consulted. with it, what did the two hopeless individuals Mr Palaszczuk: He wasn't arrogant with charged with ministerial responsibility for those people. maintaining our newly revamped correctional system do? They did absolutely nothing! They Mr HOLLIS: Not at all, because he knows that the vote out in the west will be for washed their hands of all responsibility. The his party. However, when it comes to people current member for Ferny Grove and his from the working class suburbs, the ones that successor the member for Kedron took over the Minister always denigrates in this place, the baton and the style. There is not one did he go and consult them? Not at all! That is shred of evidence to suggest that the member the failure of this Government. Its members for Kedron ever did anything useful in this are quite happy to consult with their own, but area. It was their incompetence that allowed when it comes—— the prisons to be become hopelessly overcrowded. They did nothing, they said Mr Palaszczuk: It is not a Government nothing and they sure as heck planned for all Queenslanders. nothing. Mr HOLLIS: No, not at all. However, when it comes to consulting with the In stark contrast, the coalition, even in grassroots level, the people whose very lives Opposition, recognised the growing problem of will be affected by institutions placed in their overcrowding and the dangers that were midst and who have a genuine fear of what presented to prison staff and prisoners as the might happen to them, where is the tension started to build. We recognised the consultation? It is not there! As I have said, we need to move quickly to expand our prison saw the same attitude in respect of the TAB system. Honestly and openly, the coalition people this morning. announced its intention to build a new high- security prison at Wacol to deal with all those Let us look at the other lies that the problems. It is no secret. It is in a press Government has told. What about release, which I will table, dated 3 July 1995, Mundingburra and the MOU? It does not from the Opposition spokesman for Police and matter to the Government who it gets into bed Corrective Services and member for Crows with; getting a few votes is all that matters. In Nest. Redcliffe, a Liberal candidate said that there would be an amalgamation of the councils What did we hear from the Opposition and also, "If you want to catch a fish in then? As usual, nothing! What did we hear Moreton Bay, do not vote for Ray Hollis, from this lot when we announced in the because he opposes recreational fishing." The Budget last year that the promise to build a lies flowed freely. new prison was to be delivered? Nothing! The next election will not be fought on During the Budget Estimates, as the member negative values, or the lies of the Minister, the for Mount Ommaney said, when the member Liberal Party and the coalition, it will be fought for Waterford had all the chances in the world on what the Government failed to do in its to raise any concerns he might have had short term in office. I assure the Government about the proposal, what did he say? Nothing! that it will be a very short term. When the Minister delivered his Estimates speech—a direct response to his program Time expired. statement, which outlined in detail the plan to 7 May 1997 Siting of New Prisons 1555 proceed with this facility—what concern did the The people of Riverhills are entitled to member utter? A big fat nothing! protest about this decision, but the Mr BARTON: I rise to a point of order. Government has a mandate. We announced Those remarks are offensive. As the member that the prison would be built. We intend to full well knows, in Budget Estimates we have a deliver on that promise. The Minister has limited amount of time. I am not the member already given and will continue to give access for Mount Ommaney. It is his responsibility. to residents to hear their views on how the proposal can be modified to allay some of Mr SPEAKER: Order! There is no point their concerns. That is a lot better than what of order. that lot opposite used to do. We have been Mr HEALY: I will read to the House a up front, we have been honest and we have letter that was published in the Satellite just been open. over a week ago. It was from an interested Time expired. Riverhills resident and it was headed "Protest over prison raises political question". I table Mr BRISKEY (Cleveland) (6.30 p.m.): I that article. It states— have a wife and four young children. I am not unlike the residents of Riverhills, who are "I read with interest your article 'Angry rightly concerned about the Government's locals continue war against prison' in the proposal to build a new 600-cell men's prison April 23 edition. and a correctional centre for 150 women on As an interested local resident who their doorstep. The men's prison is no ordinary attended this meeting with Mr Cooper, to prison. The proposed new SEQ1 is a high- get a balanced view of what is happening security gaol for men. These new prisons will with these prisons, I am shocked and be built on a site which is 500 metres from dismayed by your reporter saying there residential areas and only 1,000 metres from was 'A vocal crowd of about 100 . . .' the local primary school, Middle Park State when there were less than 60 people at School. I have three children attending my the proposed site including the media. local State primary school, and there is no way When I expressed the fact that that I would want a prison for 600 high-security CRAMP had a petition of many names prisoners built only 1,000 metres from their but where were they, I was abruptly told school. that they 'were at work'. Local residents are concerned and rightly Even fewer people viewed the model should be concerned. Just last month at the and photos of the proposed prison layout new Woodford prison west of Caboolture there back at Wacol. was a major riot by high and medium-security prisoners. That prison was opened in March to Mr Cooper was very approachable accommodate high-security prisoners—the and amiable, particularly at Wacol, and same types of prisoners who would be gaoled those who couldn't be bothered attending at the proposed new Wacol high-security gaol. missed an important opportunity. During the riot at Woodford one resident was I took valuable time out from my at home alone with her 15-month-old daughter business to attend, surely so can others if when two helicopters began searching the they felt strongly enough. surrounding fields by spotlight and a police How many people are really vehicle drove up and down her road and even interested in this issue. stopped outside her front gate. The local residents of Riverhills know that this sort of If Mr Pyke can only roster less than thing will also happen to them with the new 60 people, even after blasting us at 8am prison being constructed so close to their in the morning by driving through the area homes. with his megaphone, I strongly suggest that only a minority of residents are The local residents of Riverhills are right to interested at all. The issue is being 'blown- be worried. Neil Higgins of CRAMP, the up' for someone's political gains." Concerned Residents Against More Prisons at Wacol, was correct when he stated that— That is the truth. Those cynical desperates on the other side, two full years after the coalition ". . . it is reasonable to think that an honestly and openly announced its policy escaped prisoner will not pass by the Sir decision to build this prison, have suddenly David Longland Centre and John Oxley come alive. They have sniffed out an Youth Centre to go to the rail line or to opportunity and, opportunists that they are, Ipswich Road, but towards houses or are suddenly alive with indignation. perhaps Middle Park School." 1556 Siting of New Prisons 7 May 1997

The police believed that any possible escaped election? We have heard what he said from prisoners from Woodford would head towards other members, so I will not repeat it. It is the local houses; that is why they were another blatant untruth. On 26 March this searching the local streets. year, Mr Harper denied that the prison's Ms Howard-Jones, a local resident near location was still an issue, saying that it would the new Woodford prison, said that she was be sited off Grindle Road—the furthest forced to lock all her doors and windows and location from Riverhills residents. This is turn off the house lights because she thought absolute rubbish. The sewerage pipes have that prisoners had escaped and she was in already been laid at the construction site, danger. Joyce and Les Cochrane said they which is a long way from being the furthest fearfully remained locked in their house until location from Riverhills residents. The Premier 2.30 a.m. on Tuesday. This is what awaits the and the Corrective Services Minister said that 2,500 residents of Riverhills and the there had been community consultation last surrounding area. With the 600-cell, high- year. They lied. On 12 April—— security prison on their doorstep they will have Time expired. to endure police cars and helicopter search Mr GRICE (Broadwater) (6.35 p.m.): lights through their suburbs while hearing the Those opposite are uniquely qualified to talk of frightening warning gunshots that will be fired, lies and purported lies, but let us look at the as they were during the Woodford riot. facts. I want to look at the facts and deal with The Government should rethink the the facts. One of the first little things that I positioning of this prison and correctional heard mentioned by Opposition speakers was centre immediately. Trust has been thrown out the prison escape rate and talk of all these the window by the Premier and the Corrective prisoners running around loose. The truth is Services Minister. This issue is yet another that the escape rate from new-style prisons is example of how the Premier and his Minister nil. I repeat: the escape rate from new-style just cannot be trusted. The Premier said in his prisons is nil. policy speech before the 1995 election that it Why has the comfortable member for was his personal commitment as leader of the Waterford, the Opposition spokesman, finally coalition to restore public faith in the processes gotten out of his deck chair—very large in of government. He went on to say, "If we fail, size—to address this place on this issue and then throw us out." The people of move this motion? The reason is very simple: Queensland, and especially the constituents the failed former member for Mount of the Mount Ommaney electorate, will have Ommaney, Peter Pyke, has been running their chance to throw him out next year, and around like a two-bob watch with a bad spring, they are looking forward to it! talking through his megaphone and waking A further incident having occurred in the the local people and telling them all sorts of public gallery— untruths. The Labor Party awakes from its Mr SPEAKER: Order! I have warned slumber and says, "Hey, here's a chance to those in the public gallery for the last time. If gain some political advantage. Let's see if we there is clapping and noise from the gallery can wake old Tom up and get him to do again I will ask people to remove themselves something." Old Tom has woken up. There he from the gallery voluntarily and, if they do not is. Look—he still has his eyes open over there! go, I will call on the police to remove them. I Mr SPEAKER: Order! call for order. Mr GRICE: I am sorry, Mr Speaker—the Mr BRISKEY: How can anyone trust the member for Waterford. What a hypocrite the Premier and his Corrective Services Minister member for Waterford is! He smugly sits in this when in the Courier-Mail on 6 December last Chamber as he plays politics. In this motion, year, while announcing with a lot of fanfare the he calls on the Parliament to condemn the construction of this new men's prison and Minister for his callous and hurried siting of correctional centre for women, they said that these prisons. "Hurried"? The member does residents had been consulted and that there not know how to spell that word, let alone what appeared to be general acceptance of the it means. I will read from a press release of 3 project. This, of course, is blatantly untrue— July 1995 from Russell Cooper, the Minister. It but there it was in the Courier-Mail in states— December last year. The members opposite "Mr Cooper said the Corrective will do and say anything. They simply cannot Services Commission would be given a be trusted. $115 million extra capital works boost to What did the local Liberal Party member build new replacement jails at for Mount Ommaney say before the last Rockhampton and Wacol and a new 7 May 1997 Siting of New Prisons 1557

Brisbane Women's Prison away from the The level of hypocrisy is graphically Boggo Road site." illustrated by the fact that the sleeping The details of the capital works program were member was stunningly silent on this subject released 18 months ago. The member for during the hearings of the Budget Estimates Waterford claims that this decision has been committee. Let us examine the transcript of hurried. He has never hurried anywhere. How that hearing. For those in the Chamber who would he know what that word means? do not know, the Estimates committee is the perfect opportunity for members of the I will now read an extract from Rob Opposition to have a free shot at the Borbidge's campaign launch. Do members Government—to ask about expenditure or opposite know what a campaign is? It occurs policies. After the Minister made his opening before an election. During that campaign statement, the member for Waterford woke launch, the now Premier said— up—he actually got out of his chair; there must ". . . our Government will immediately have been a tack on it—and interrupted the embark on an additional $115 million Minister to ask his first question. The member capital works program to provide—over droned on and bored everybody badly. After four to five years from the end of the Minister had said, "High on our priorities is 1996—new replacement facilities of at a south-east Queensland prison to replace the least 500 beds . . . at Wacol . . . " outdated and costly to run", etc., who finally Mr Fouras: So what! What has that got asked some sort of a question? Mr Carroll! He to do with a prison to be sited there? asked the Minister, as a member of the Government— Mr GRICE: "So what!", I hear. Hasn't the member read the motion? It does not "I take you to page 2-3 of the have pictures on it, so he probably would not Ministerial Program Statements and understand it! The motion claims that this mention the two new correctional centres decision has been hurried. It has not been proposed for Wacol. I ask: on what basis hurried. It has been part of our policy for ages. are they both to go into that Wacol The Ministerial Program Statements for 1996- precinct?" 97 include reference to the commencement of A member of the Government asked that a 600-cell facility—mention is made of it again question during the hearing of the Estimates and again and again. How public do we have committee. The slumbering old Opposition to be with something? Do members opposite spokesperson, who finally has his eyes open, think we are pulling this out of thin air? did not even think about it until Peter Pyke Another media release dated 25 March went around and broke the spring on his bike. 1996 carried the heading "Major Jails Time expired. Expansion Gets Cabinet Approval in Principle" Mr ROBERTSON (Sunnybank) and referred to plans to build a new prison at (6.40 p.m.): This debate tonight is all about Wacol and a new women's prison. What do broken promises—the broken promise not to we have to do—draw pictures for members site a new prison closer to an existing opposite to understand the language? A community and the broken promise to engage media release by the Minister dated 10 in open and proper consultation with the September 1996 carried the heading "Cooper affected community. Do honourable members Moves on Women's Prison" and stated— remember the 1994 election campaign and "Planning will start immediately for a the "Labor lies" tag used by the Liberals and new $17 million women's prison to replace Nationals dreamed up by the lately departed the current inadequate Brisbane so-called honest campaign director from the Women's Correctional Centre Liberal Party? Tonight we have yet another . . . demonstration of the coalition con. In this case, the coalition con is coming from the a new facility to be built in the Wacol same Minister who in both 1992 and 1995 precinct by the end of 1998 . . ." promised that he would build a police station How long does it take to get through to in the Sunnybank electorate in his first term of members opposite? Another media release office. It took less than six months after his dated 10 September 1996 stated— Government assumed office for this solemn "SEQ1, as this male prison is promise to be forgotten. currently designated, will provide 600 new The people of Riverhills are suffering the cells to replace the current 400 cells . . ." same coalition con from the same Minister for It is awfully difficult to get information across to Police and Corrective Services—all the members opposite! promises before an election that are very 1558 Siting of New Prisons 7 May 1997 quickly shelved and forgotten when coalition the people of Queensland and, in particular, members assume office. They tell constituents the people of Mount Ommaney! anything before the election and then hope Before I came in here tonight, as I usually they forget after the election, but the people do, I researched my speech. I tried to find out do not forget. They do not forget because the what the coalition's election policy was. Could I promises the Minister makes have a direct find it? One is certainly not going to find it in impact on their standard of living and their the Parliamentary Library. It was only tonight, quality of life. These are things that are most when the member for Toowoomba North important to people and they are things which finally tabled this so-called policy—the policy we, as members of Parliament, should never by press release with which we are all very forget and should never trade off for a quick familiar—that I saw it. Government members political fix. say it is all contained in this document. I will Tonight a number of coalition members quote the reference to Wacol in this policy. have spoken in this debate, but not one of They promised to build a new replacement them has addressed the solemn promise gaol at Rockhampton and Wacol, and a new made by the member for Mount Ommaney in Brisbane women's prison away from the the lead-up to that 1995 election. He told his Boggo Road site. From this press release, the constituents that they had his guarantee that people of Riverhills had no idea that this the coalition would not be constructing any Government was going to build that women's prison buildings closer to their suburbs than prison on the site. That is the press release. currently exist. The one question that has not Time expired. been answered here in tonight's debate is: Hon. T. R. COOPER (Crows Nest— what is the member for Mount Ommaney saying now? With the people of his own Minister for Police and Corrective Services and electorate who are sitting up there in the Minister for Racing) (6.45 p.m.): It is unfortunate that backwards and forwards gallery—the concerned residents—why does across the place we hear these charges and he think he can back away? What makes him countercharges. As far as I am concerned, it is think that he can get away with making perfectly obvious that we kept our promises; guarantees like that and then breaking them the coalition always said that we would be at the first opportunity? This kind of broken building a high security prison at Wacol. It was promise is not confined to the Minister for not just in that press release, it was in all our Police and Corrective Services. If honourable policy documents which were released back in members want to look at an example of 1995. It was on the public record— broken promises, they should look at his unabashed—and we have never made any colleague the Minister for Transport. I say to other promise as far as that was concerned. the people of Riverhills, who are up there The other thing that members opposite harp tonight, if they are wondering why the member about—— for Sunnybank is speaking about an issue in Mount Ommaney—— Opposition members interjected. Mr SPEAKER: Order! The honourable Mr COOPER: I will table all that. But the member will address the Chair. point is that if members opposite had been on the ball, they would have read the policies, but Mr ROBERTSON: If they are wondering they failed to do so. I cannot help that; I why I am speaking on this issue, it is because cannot help it if they are so dumb and blind this Government is doing exactly the same that they cannot read. But I know it was all on thing to the good people of my electorate of the record back then for at least two years and Sunnybank—breaking promises all over the was available to everyone if they had bothered place, failing to deliver on its promises of to read it. consultation and basic infrastructure in the Mr Robertson interjected. electorate. I suggest that the Minister for Transport has been a very willing student of Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member for the Minister for Police and Corrective Services. Sunnybank. Do honourable members remember all the Mr COOPER: Talk about consultation! wonderful promises made by the Liberal and What sort of consultation did members National Parties during the 1995 State opposite enter into about the koala track, the election? It would be a very caring one that virtually cost them Government? No Government; it would consult with the consultation whatsoever! They treated the community and it would listen! We have heard residents like dirt. They went clean through it repeat that mantra here tonight. What a con! and God knows how many seats they lost What a coalition con that was perpetrated on because they never bothered to consult. We 7 May 1997 Siting of New Prisons 1559 have bothered to consult on this and will we forward planned; that is why we made continue to do so. plans way back, so long ago, so that people We said that the prisons would be built on knew then and that consultation process could that site and we did not shirk from that. That is then progress. But it is difficult being a resident the truth, the honest truth, of what we said of any electorate—and members opposite right back then. We did say we would consult know it—when there is a trying thing like this and negotiate so we could consider moving going on. The point is to be up front and the prison around to various positions to make honest, and that is exactly what we have been it as best as we possibly could for those and it is exactly how we are going to stay. residents. That prison site was purchased I also want to say that, apart from being about 30-odd years ago. That was done for a honest and up front, I have made it very clear reason: so that we could plan ahead. What on that I will be flexible and open as far as earth does one plan ahead for? Why on earth negotiation is concerned as to where the does a Government purchase a prison site but prisons will be placed on the site. That is for that reason? Exactly that, and the people exactly what we have been doing. As soon as of that area knew it. It was always there on the we have known the configurations, we have record. It was a prison reserve, for future made them known so that then we can move construction. That is exactly what we did. them around to try to make the best we The hypocrisy is the other thing that has possibly can out of the situation. Of course we come out in this debate—disgusting, have feelings for the people concerned—a disgraceful hypocrisy. If anyone believes that darned sight more feeling than members hypocrisy, God help them; I pity them because opposite ever dreamt about, because we are the hypocrisy is unbelievable stuff. I have even not hypocrites or charlatans, which is exactly had representations from the lot opposite what members opposite are. They use decent, saying, "When can we start? We are worried honest people. They should never do it. The about the workers. We want to get them way that they have treated people under going. When can we start?" I have had one or these circumstances is an absolute disgrace. It two of the members opposite who represent is a disgrace; it is a disgusting disgrace and I electorates not in the area saying, "Gee, we will keep on saying it because they should have never had this much money spent near never have treated people like this. our electorates before" and weren't we good. Time expired. All of a sudden Opposition members saw an Mr NUTTALL (Sandgate) (6.50 p.m.): opportunity—a deceitful, disgraceful, The residents of the electorate of Mount disgusting, sickening opportunity—to try to Ommaney have a right to feel betrayed take advantage of people out there by saying tonight. What we have heard tonight from the "broken promises". There are no broken honourable member for Toowoomba North, promises; there is consultation. All of that will the honourable member for Broadwater and continue and we will continue to work with the Minister is a clear statement that they had those people even though they are going to already made the decision to build those be duped by the lot opposite. prisons in that electorate. As to this business As far as we are concerned, the facts are about consultation—what consultation means that the intention to build a new high security to this Government is: "We've already made prison on the site was designated 30 years the decision, and we will come and tell you ago; it was an open, public policy commitment how we are going to implement it." But what by this Government. I intend to table all of the the good residents of the electorate of Mount relevant documents that have been publicly Ommaney have believed all the way along the acknowledged before. The fact is that local line is that they would be involved in the residents have known or should have known decision-making process. That has not been since 1995, because that was always our the case. What they have been involved in is published, open intention. The fact also is that just being told, "We are going to build a the QCSC has been consulting directly with prison. End of story." those residents since November last The honourable member for Toowoomba year—straight after the Budget gave us the North strongly defended the position here dollars to deliver on our promise. I have also tonight. Toowoomba is the garden city of ensured that the local member has been kept Queensland. Is there a prison in Toowoomba? fully briefed so that he could liaise and keep No way! The honourable member for his community informed. Broadwater also strongly defends the position. That is the very difficult task in these sorts Where is the honourable member for of things and everyone knows it. That is why Broadwater's electorate? On the Gold Coast! 1560 Adjournment 7 May 1997

Is there a prison on the Gold Coast? No! He has failed tonight in this debate. The reality There is no prison on the Gold Coast. Those is—and it is coming from Corrective Services— members are saying, "It is not in my backyard, that those prisons will not be pulled down; they so we will put it in Riverhills where we already will actually be mothballed for a later time. have five prisons." There are already five That is the word coming from the Minister's prisons in the area of Riverhills. department. The people of Mount Ommaney I have here a letter or a brochure from the need to be wary of that. They need to make then Liberal candidate and now the sure that, at the next election—— honourable member for Mount Ommaney. In Mr COOPER: I rise to a point of order. I it he said— find the remarks offensive and untruthful, and "You have my guarantee that the ask that they be withdrawn. Coalition will not be constructing any Mr SPEAKER: Order! The Honourable prison buildings closer to our suburbs than Minister has asked for the remarks to be currently exist." withdrawn. A resident of that suburb who was reading this Mr NUTTALL: I withdraw. But methinks brochure would be led to believe that there they protest too much. would be no more prisons built in that area. I say to the member for Mount Ommaney that What I draw to the attention of the this brochure or letter, which helped him get residents of the electorate of Mount elected, will be the very letter that will be his Ommaney is this: these people cannot be demise at the next election. trusted on their word. For far too long they have strung those people along. Yes, they Mr HARPER: I rise to a point of order. have met with them, but they have never The member is misleading the House. The given a commitment that those prisons would letter and the brochure did not say that there not be built. As has been said during the would be no prisons built in the area. He is debate, basic construction work has already misleading the House, and I ask that he started. Unfortunately, once those contracts withdraw that. are tendered out, it will be too late for those Mr NUTTALL: I read exactly what is in residents. They need to be vigilant with this this letter. Hansard will record that. I read Government and they need to continue to exactly what is in this letter. I did not say protest. anything that was not in this letter. I said exactly what is in this letter. Time expired. Mr SPEAKER: Order! The honourable Question—That Mr Barton's motion be member has found the remarks offensive and agreed to—put; and the House divided— has asked the honourable member to AYES, 41—Ardill, Barton, Beattie, Bird, Bligh, withdraw. Hansard will show which member is Braddy, Bredhauer, Briskey, Campbell, D'Arcy, correct. De Lacy, Edmond, Elder, Foley, Fouras, Gibbs, Goss W. K., Hamill, Hayward, Hollis, Lucas, McElligott, Mr NUTTALL: I will withdraw so that I McGrady, Mackenroth, Milliner, Mulherin, Nunn, can continue the debate. The honourable Nuttall, Palaszczuk, Pearce, Purcell, Robertson, member for Mount Ommaney has been Rose, Schwarten, Smith, Spence, Sullivan J. H., deceptive to the people in the electorate of Welford, Wells. Tellers: Sullivan T. B., Roberts Mount Ommaney, and this brochure will be his NOES, 42—Baumann, Beanland, Borbidge, Connor, demise. Cooper, Cunningham, Elliott, FitzGerald, Gamin, Mr HARPER: I rise to a further point of Gilmore, Goss J. N., Grice, Harper, Healy, Hegarty, order. I find those remarks totally untrue and Hobbs, Horan, Johnson, Laming, Lester, Lingard, offensive and ask that they be withdrawn. Littleproud, McCauley, Malone, Mitchell, Perrett, Quinn, Radke, Rowell, Santoro, Sheldon, Simpson, Mr NUTTALL: I withdraw. Slack, Stephan, Stoneman, Tanti, Warwick, Watson, Mr SPEAKER: Order! There is no point Wilson, Woolmer. Tellers: Springborg, Carroll of order. The member for Sandgate will Pairs: Davidson, Dollin; Veivers, Livingstone continue. Resolved in the negative. Mr NUTTALL: The other thing that the Minister has failed to do tonight is give a commitment that those prisons—the old ADJOURNMENT gaols—will be brought down. He had the Mr FITZGERALD (Lockyer—Leader of opportunity during the debate tonight to give a Government Business) (7 p.m.): I move— commitment to the good people of Mount Ommaney that he will pull down those prisons. "That the House do now adjourn." 7 May 1997 Adjournment 1561

Public Transport An extremely important facility that is Mr ARDILL (Archerfield) (7 p.m.): On lacking in Australia is adequate and Tuesday night, while supporting the Public convenient transfer points with reliability and Works Committee's suggestions for upgrading through ticketing, which is now freely available railway facilities to accommodate the tilt train by means of computer technology and which service, I took the opportunity to criticise the should be adopted enthusiastically by committee's expectation that the tilt train transport authorities, but is not. What escapes should produce a profit. Public transport the notice of authorities and armchair critics is should never produce a profit where it is that distance is not always of great providing a service for ordinary commuters and importance; the real imperative relates to the general community. Public transport can journey time, not distance. The shortest realise a profit where it is aimed at the most journey between two points is not a straight affluent sector of the tourism market. It can line, otherwise there would be no point in show a profitable return on capital, or at least building ring routes around a city. We often an amount of interest and a small return on hear criticism of all transport being aimed at capital, where it is providing a service for the city centre, and that is a justifiable criticism; casual users. But where it is providing an however, a worse mistake would be to stop infrastructure service or conveying regular express vehicles when the overwhelming passengers, it should no more be expected to collective desire of the patrons is a quick show a return than should a school, a hospital, journey to the CBD. More circular routes are a road, a police station, a law court or the greatly needed in all cities, but the CBD is a defence forces. good transfer point for many existing journeys. Even on limited-stop services, such as trains Everyone pays lip-service to promoting and express buses, stopping time is from one- public transport, but very few authorities want third to one-half the journey time. On all-stop to support it financially. Until it is accepted as a buses the stopping time is twice to three times service instead of a business enterprise, the the moving or travelling time. I can claim credit public will never be able to afford the time and for Brisbane's Great Circle bus route. A lot the fares to support it. The irony of the more needs to be done to transfer passengers ridiculous Hilmer lunacy of public facilities at existing stops and to provide a large being made available at cost price to profit number of cross-country services, which will makers while expecting public transport to need financial support to make them viable in impose the profit motive on the public users is the short term. totally lost on the Hilmer philosophers and bean counters. The IRTP study acknowledges The ridiculous Hilmer philosophy and the public interest need to improve the hopeless competition economic rationalism patronage on public transport and the need to procedures destroying public services like a reduce private vehicle trips, but does not cancer must be reversed if we are to have provide any hope of a major shift to public adequate public transport services. I transport in the next 20 years. Even a congratulate the PTU on its campaign against doubling of patronage will not resolve the that destructive cancer. Where it is used to problems of the ever-increasing need for extra destroy the tax revenue base of State roads, for extra lanes and for a reduction in Governments and local councils by destroying gas emissions from private vehicles. the viability of operations, such as electricity supplies and mineral transport, it is a tragedy. The failure of the Los Angeles model has Where it destroys the viability of public been known for decades. Still we fail to transport, as it has done around Australia, and provide capital and operating costs that will where it ignores the imperatives of make public transport available, accessible, environmental protection, it is at that point that convenient and attractive to the public. The we should draw a line in the sand and say, most important features for outer suburb "No further." We must fight back. commuters over long distances are shorter journey times, comfort, reliability, frequency and moderate fares in that order. Those Cairns Mulgrave Pistol Club priorities change depending on time and distance and the direction of travel, with short Mrs WILSON (Mulgrave) (7.06 p.m.): distance travellers willing to forgo some Last evening, the member for Cairns lifted his comfort for better frequencies and better head from his new occupation as author cum reliability; however, the one constant is a member to make some pie-in-the-sky moderate fare structure, which precludes any statements on the Cairns Mulgrave Pistol real profitability from regular travellers as a Club. To coin a phrase, it could be said that he normal situation. was shooting blindly from the hip, but he did 1562 Adjournment 7 May 1997 not score a bullseye. I will take a short time to They need assistance. What has been a respond to the inaccurate innuendos put problem in the north has been happening all forward by him with reference to that club. over the State. On 28 April the Minister for The honourable member minced words Natural Resources made a statement, which I by aligning a coalition pre-election stance—a will read for the benefit of the member for commitment made by this Government prior to Cairns— the elections to underground a portion of the "Gun Clubs will be given assistance last segment of the Woree-Chalumbin high- to secure areas of unallocated State land voltage power line—and a local pistol club. for use as target shooting ranges under What the two have in common is a mystery, an initiative announced by the Minister for but the member for Cairns has tried Natural Resources, Howard Hobbs, at a mischievously to link the two through a local Regional State Cabinet meeting in Edmonton group. Maryborough today." I inform the House that the process of Mr De Lacy: They've got one. undergrounding the powerline is well under Mrs WILSON: The honourable member way and the area is rid forever of the unsightly should just listen. It continues— overhead power lines. One of the beauty criteria in that area of the north is the open "State Cabinet heard that because of vista of cane farms and tropical green the recent changes to the Weapons Act backdrops of the hill slopes. That has been 1990 which introduced tight control on preserved for generations. gun ownership and the licensing of gun owners, the Sporting Shooters The member for Cairns, Mr De Lacy, Association of Australia has reported that alluded to pressures by "political mates" to its membership had doubled and is still scuttle the Cairns-Mulgrave Pistol Club. He has increasing. stated that the club has been told through National Party sources—and he did not say by A number of Commonwealth rifle whom—that it will have to relocate and that I ranges are located on State land leased have indicated that publicly. For the record, I to the Commonwealth. . . . their principal point out that, following representations from users are members of rifle and shooting members of gun clubs in the area who have clubs and associations." been forced to relocate or who are actually in The Minister has made a commitment to find the process of having to relocate due to urban accommodation for gun clubs which need it. encroachment and noise and safety issues, I My colleague the member for Barron River approached the Minister for Natural Resources and I have both made representations to the to see whether any excess parcels of lands Minister about a block that could be suitable were available for use to assist those gun for the Gordonvale club. Actually, time is clubs. With the number of gun clubs growing running out for the club and it has to relocate. since the amendment to the Weapons Act, Seeking land for gun clubs has nothing to gun clubs need to have other places to do with the National Party or "mates" as Mr De operate. I suggested—and I stated so publicly Lacy has stated. Recently, the member also some weeks ago—a one-shop gun club parcel made the scurrilous suggestion that the of land that would be set aside for the use of a Honourable Russell Cooper is "putting number of shooting organisations, ASSA pressure on the Weapons Licensing Branch to clubs, gun and pistol clubs, and for training for have the club's approval withdrawn." What a the State and Federal Police and also by the scandalous suggestion by Mr De Lacy! Army: a one-shop shooting range facility for all However, his suggestions are falling on deaf nationally recognised shooting disciplines. I ears. Nothing could be further from the truth. received a letter from somebody thanking us for taking the time to consider such an option. Following certain modifications that were carried out by the club as required, the It is necessary to seek land that will following recent advice has been given to the provide a safety net for shooters. Such land Minister— must be situated in areas safe from urban encroachment, as has happened elsewhere in "It was never intended to revoke the the north and, I am led to believe, other approval of the club, and there was never places in this State. The Cairns City Council any intention to restrict the legitimate has been helpful in trying to locate land. The shooting activities. shooters I have met during and since the gun The club has almost completed all debate are committed to their sport and have requested modifications and when official developed very safe codes for their clubs. notification is received, the necessary 7 May 1997 Adjournment 1563

inspections will be carried out and broke his neck in two places and was off work approval of all matches"— for three years. It was not until 1960 that he which had to be cancelled— was able to go back to work, but the injury had taken its toll. Jack signed on at the Sydney "will be re-instated in compliance with the Technical College and studied to become a safety requirements of the Weapons Act." builder and, in due course, qualified. He So much for the pressure on the club to close! started a business in the Sydney area building Mr De Lacy has been hoodwinked by garages, carports and truss houses. When somebody, and I would like to know who. Jack retired in 1976, he and his wife, Edna, There has not been an intention to close the decided to move to Pittsworth. He had club. All we were doing was trying to seek land developed a love of the country through his for clubs that need land, and we will continue regular visits since the war to the family of a to do so. workmate, Alan Jarick. Jack James had been a member of the Croydon Park branch in New South Wales. Mr J. James Upon arriving in Queensland, at his first Mr LUCAS (Lytton) (7.11 p.m.): On meeting at the Pittsworth branch he Sunday, 1 December 1996 it was my pleasure transferred to that branch and, at that same to attend a meeting and function of the meeting, became secretary. He served in that Pittsworth Branch of the ALP to present a life capacity from 1976 until a few years ago when membership badge to Mr Jack James. It is he handed over to the branch's current always a great pleasure to recognise long and secretary. meritorious service to the party and Jack, with 65 years of active service in both the ALP and Life is not easy for a Labor man in an the union movement, deserves the highest electorate such as Cunningham where, at the accolades. last election, the National Party polled 73.9% of the vote. In my electorate of Lytton, most Jack, who is now aged 79, was born in people with whom I have a drink at the pub Sydney, New South Wales and left school at are strong Labor supporters. In Cunningham, 14. During the war, the Commonwealth the opposite is the case and even the keenest Manpower Division took Jack away from his optimist would have difficulty envisaging a work as a boilermaker at Water Supply and local Labor victory. Engineering and placed him at the Ford Motor Company building tanks and trucks. During the In fact, Tom Burns told me a story about time that he worked at Ford, Jack noted that his young Labor days when his mate Digger male welders were being paid £5.8s. per Davis, the former member for Brisbane week, but women, who did not have their own Central, ran for the seat against the then award, were paid only £3.7s. per week. Jack member and Minister, Alan Fletcher. They put and his fellow workers did not believe that campaign notes in the empty milk containers women should be treated any differently from that were going back to the milk factory. men, and they went out on strike and stayed However, they got into trouble when they put out for a period of six weeks. That sort of them in full ones. They did not win any friends industrial action would be admirable even from the farmers for doing that. On another today, but in the very conservative time of the occasion, they set up a public address in the 1940s it must have been little short of main street ready to advise the good folk of revolutionary. Members should recall that it Pittsworth about the very considerable benefits was only in the 1970s that we had equal pay of electing a Labor member. No sooner had legislated for women. The outcome of the they connected up the battery when a local dispute was that Judge O'Mara ordered that dog walked up, cocked his leg on the battery women be paid 90% of the male rate, which and did his business. That shorted out the was the first success of that type in Australia. battery. Even the drover's dog in Pittsworth was a tory. Obviously, the industrial action did not make Jack popular with his employers, but he In that sort of atmosphere, it is all too would have liked to have gone further. easy to become disheartened. Jack saw the However, his standard of skill and ability meant importance of carrying the banner for Labor that the company did not try to sack him. For not only in State politics but also in Federal 10 years Jack worked at Ford and then, after elections, at which he played that very finishing up with that company, went back to important role of maximising the Senate vote. Water Supply and Engineering. Unfortunately, Like any true Labor man, Jack believed that in 1957 he was driving to work when his car he should work hard for the local community. was struck from behind by another vehicle. He When the Pittsworth Court House was 1564 Adjournment 7 May 1997 threatened with closure by a decision that we The task ahead you won't neglect, on this side are now not very proud of, it was to gain the unemployed's respect. Jack James, in the safest of National Party So to this End we all do Share, seats, who was the one who led the fight. He Respect for you and Australia Fair. embarked on a furious campaign of letter So up there Bob and do the Job. writing. Jack, now a pensioner, scraped Work for all Big and Small, together the money to go to a Labor by- This you have said you will recall. election function in Toowoomba. He managed Goodluck, to collar the then Premier and, to use his own words, gave him "what for". Jack organised a Jack James. petition, which ended up being so popular that Mr LUCAS: Sometimes it is hard to get more people signed it than those who actually campaign workers to work for a few hours at a lived in Pittsworth. Whenever he saw new polling booth. I asked Jack what he normally people, usually at auction sales, he would does on election day. He told me that he thrust the petition in front of them and ask started off at Millmerran, spent a few hours them to sign. If they said to him, "We don't there, then went to Brookstead and from there come from here, mate", he always responded, to Pittsworth. He also used to go down to "Sign it. You're in sympathy with us." Southbrook. However, in recent years he has Jack is not a person to rely on emotions slowed down a bit and now his mate, old-timer alone. He knew that if he wanted to prevail, he Bob, looks after it. would need to produce hard facts. He was I asked Jack why he joined and supports concerned that the figures showed that the the Labor Party. He said, "It's simple. I'm a Pittsworth Court House had been used only bloody worker, mate. They're the only party three times in 12 months. He found that a little that will look after the worker." I asked him hard to believe and asked the local police what he thought our most important policies what had happened. They said that every should be. He said, "Jobs, jobs and more drink-driving and minor offence that they got jobs". That simple philosophy sums up why they took into Toowoomba. Jack issued an Jack James is such a deserving life member. edict, "In future you should hold your sessions Those of us who sit on this side of the here. If you don't demonstrate the real need, House are very fortunate. We have the then you'll lose it." privilege of representing that great party, the Jack won the fight for the people of Australian Labor Party. People such as Jack Pittsworth. One can only wonder what sort of James devote their entire lives to supporting politician he would have been had he had age the party without ever getting a cent in return and political demographics on his side. Jack or any personal benefit other than the has been a prolific writer to the Pittsworth pleasure of campaigning for the election of Sentinel and also to the Courier-Mail. He writes Labor Governments. Jack James, to sum up poetry as well. Sometimes it is political; other our gratitude to you, I borrow the words of times it is not. That is just another side to this another Sydneysider by the name of man. I seek leave to have incorporated in Jack—Jack Gibson: "Jack James, played hard, Hansard one of Jack James' poems and also done good". to table some of his other works. Leave granted. Homestead Park Management Good on you Bob, Association you have done the job. Mr WOOLMER (Springwood) The task was hard the going Rough, (7.16 p.m.): It gives me great pleasure to rise But you fought on till they had enough. to talk about a win/win situation that has been We salute you for your gallant stand, achieved in my electorate. Tonight, I would like And hope God gives a helping hand. to congratulate the Homestead Park For now we have to all Unite, Management Association, which is located on To give the people equal Right. the border between the Springwood and We had our spell Redlands electorates, and which recently of Bloody Hell. received a $39,000 grant from the So go to it Bob unafraid, Government's Minor Facilities Program. So sell our goods Australia made. The Homestead Park Management Behind you stand a loyal Brigade, Association looks after the home ground, To help our kids and others upgrade. which is Homestead Park, for both the Logan Our hopes our dreams are all with you, Rugby Union Club and the Springwood Suns To pull our Beloved Country through. Cricket Club. I have the great honour of being 7 May 1997 Adjournment 1565 the patron of the Springwood Suns Cricket Raveendrakumar, who is better known as Club. Both of those clubs are supported "George". Through the tireless efforts of those strongly by the member for Redlands, John people, these clubs and our kids have a very Hegarty, and me. Quite often on the bright future. weekends, members would find us down there While I am thanking people, I would also following the Rugby Union guys. They have a like to take this opportunity to thank Greg very, very good record locally. Cahill from the Office of Sport, who is based at Mr Hegarty: They have a very strong Logan City. Greg's professionalism and following. continuous advice and assistance bring much Mr WOOLMER: As the member for credit to him and his officers. He is Redlands said, they have a very strong passionately committed to the future of sport following. in Queensland and a better man one could not find. I especially extend my thanks to the Mr Hegarty: David Gardner, the coach of the Queensland Bulls, Mr John manager, is an exemplary figure for the club. Buchanan, for appearing as guest of honour Mr WOOLMER: Yes, Mr David Gardner, at the presentation of the Springwood Suns the manager and coordinator for the Rugby awards afternoon. He made the afternoon for Union club is a very strong local supporter of the kids. The most prized possession from the sport, as are some other individuals whom I day was not one of the club's trophies but will name in a minute. Buch's autograph on the visor of a cricket cap. About 14 months ago, the As I said earlier, the association representatives of the Springwood Suns represents both the cricket and rugby clubs. It Cricket Club came to me to outline their plans also represents a story of cooperation and for upgrading their facility which, although it is leadership at a local level which will benefit the coordinated and owned by the Logan City entire community. This group of people had a Council, is based at Homestead Park. The vision of what Homestead Park could be in the Springwood Suns Cricket Club has about 130 future. They rallied together the parents and junior cricketers in about 10 teams. There are families involved in these clubs and held a also two senior sides which play for the club as number of successful working bees. They well. Although the cricketers were eager to have achieved a great deal. forge ahead with some local works, it was also The club successfully submitted a joint recognised that both the Logan City Council application for grant funding under the Minor and the Rugby Union club would be integral to Facilities Program. With this, the clubs will go any development work; hence, the formation from strength to strength. I believe that the of the Homestead Park Management first item on the agenda is the installation of a Association to jointly manage the interests of set of competition-standard lights which will all the parties concerned. allow the facility to operate for much longer In July last year, I had the distinct hours and attract other sports to the grounds. pleasure of hosting Mick Veivers, the Minister The park truly is a great sporting ground. The for Sport, in my electorate. We visited many of cricket club is eager to put in a turf wicket to our local sports clubs and also the State allow its A grade and senior cricketers more Emergency Service facilities. The Minister practice on a competition-standard wicket. brought some of his staff with him. We took a One really must play on turf to go all the way long time in going to all the different clubs. We in cricket. A great deal has already been spoke to the people at those clubs about their achieved at the club. New lights over the needs and aspirations and how they see the practice wicket area have been installed, some future for themselves. I would like to thank the of the sheds and the grounds have been Minister specifically for taking that time and refurbished and water and irrigation systems coming to my electorate. have been installed across all the grounds. All We ended up at the Homestead Park of that has been achieved through the hard facility and the committee of that facility, work of the conscientious local people. through its vision, was able to show the Time expired. Minister what could be done. I would like to record in Hansard the names of some of the people who are involved in the Homestead Cannon Hill Abattoir Park Management Association. I refer to Mr PURCELL (Bulimba) (7.21 p.m.): Mr people such as Barney Boland, Jeff New, Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity to Marion Young, Darryl Murphy, Mark Konecny, finish a speech that I started to make the Wayne Hanford and my mate Ravi other day during the Matters of Public 1566 Adjournment 7 May 1997

Importance debate but did not finish for one breath, it says that the plant is ageing and that reason or another. the abattoir is suffering from urban In 1987 a committee of six Government encroachment. Where is the enticement for backbenchers was appointed by the then prospective buyers? That certainly gives no Premier to help the Government decide on the assurance of continuing employment for the future of the Cannon Hill abattoir. The workers of the metropolitan and regional committee's role was to obtain practical advice abattoirs at Cannon Hill. from all sections of the meat industry before Mr Campbell: Or Bundaberg. any decision was made on retaining, closing or Mr PURCELL: Or Bundaberg. Last year privatising the abattoir. The United Graziers the Queensland Abattoir Corporation Association told the members of the special processed an estimated 120,000 tonnes of committee—and Government members carcass weight and had 5% of the kill share should pay special attention to this—that based on the estimated national meat retention of the abattoir was important in production. Five per cent of the kill share is acting as a safeguard against the being processed by the Government development of monopolies by conglomerates meatworks at present. The Abattoir in the meat industry. That still applies today. In Corporation increased its ranking from 6 to 4 fact, it is possible that it is even more pertinent of the top 25 processors for 1995, with a today as the ownership of abattoirs contracts turnover of $40m. This is not a meatworks or a to a smaller and smaller group. corporation that is going broke and it is not The UGA submission emphasised that costing this State Government one shilling. In there were a number of important non- fact, it is putting money into the Government financial issues that should also be coffers. considered. Government members should Mr Mitchell: What's a shilling? certainly be listening to this! The association said that selling the abattoir would have a Mr PURCELL: I will say "one dollar" detrimental effect on competition for livestock, then. The corporation will continue to do that resulting in reduced returns to producers. It once the Government realises that selling off would also prevent the development and this asset will leave us at the mercy of testing of new technology essential to the overseas meat companies. Do we really future of the processing industry, and would believe that either the Japanese, the Chinese result in the retrenchment of hundreds—and I or the Americans, when competing in the say "hundreds" well advisedly because in the world markets for meat contracts, would put an Cannon Hill area there are approximately 600 Australian abattoir that they owned in front of abattoir workers—of people employed by the one of their own which was competing in the abattoir, its tenants and service industries. A same market? Of course not! They will use the lot of other people rely on these industries, as Australian abattoir to top up the markets that we all know. they want to keep and which they will take off us. By closing or selling the Government Has the Government consulted with the meatworks, we are sending our own meat United Graziers Association on this decision, or industry down the tube. is it so anxious to close down and destroy this State Government asset—an asset which is Time expired. owned by the people of Queensland—that it will bypass the people? I do not think that any Australian Mining Industry consultation has occurred with the United Graziers Association. The association has Mr MITCHELL (Charters Towers) been told what will happen, but there was no (7.26 p.m.) Much has been written and said consultation before the decision was made. If recently about the so-called unwillingness of the Government sees out its full term in office, Australian mining companies to commit fully to no State Government assets will be left an acceptable environmental management judging by the pace that it is going at the practice. Those involved in the mining industry, moment, although it may have a super bank either directly or indirectly, appreciate the left which will be ripe for a takeover by one of tremendous progress that has been made in the four large Australian banks. The recent years in limiting the impact of mining on Government is prepared to rid itself of one of the environment. However, as the Federal the State's most important and traditional Minister for Resources and Energy, Senator industries. Warwick Parer, noted recently, the degree of ignorance about the mining industry among The Government states that the public some parts of the general community is quite abattoirs are likely to be sold and, in the same extraordinary. That ignorance extends to the 7 May 1997 Adjournment 1567 economic importance of the industry, as well improvement, to accept movement in as the tremendous progress it has made over community standards and to produce an the past 20 years in its ability and desire to do annual environmental report. The code a good job in the environment. requires a solemn commitment from the I bring to the attention of the House a companies adopting it and a willingness to recent environmental initiative of the Australian report publicly on their performances. mining industry which, predictably, received Implementation of the code will be evaluated scant media coverage. The initiative was the by externally accredited auditors at least every launch of Australia's first code of three years. The code's bottom-line objective environmental management for all mining is to improve environmental performance companies. Copies of the package are across the industry. available for any interested persons. The mining industry remains the In developing the code, the mining backbone of the Australian economy and it will industry was determined to demonstrate its remain so for the foreseeable future. In the commitment to excellence in managing the last financial year, it earned Australia at least environmental aspects of all of its operations. $35 billion in export earnings. Mining is a The code provides a framework and a globalised, relentlessly competitive industry in centrepiece for any ongoing program of which Australia has developed extraordinary continual improvement in environmental excellence across all activities. We have much management. It will guide mining companies, of the world's best technology and expertise in wherever they operate, towards effective exploration, mining, processing and the environmental strategies for each phase of provision of equipment and services, including mineral development, from initial exploration to engineering, design, construction, contract closure and final rehabilitation. Already an mining, computer software and environmental impressive list of companies have committed management services. I believe that this latest themselves to the code and others have initiative of launching the environmental code indicated that they intend to become is a very worthwhile step and should be signatories. applauded by all Australians. By becoming signatories, companies Motion agreed to. undertake to implement comprehensive management systems, to pursue continual The House adjourned at 7.30 p.m.