Date: Fri, 29 Nov 96 11:24 EST From: "WWW: Pratyatosa (Dasa) ACBSP (Hillsborough NC - USA)" [[email protected]] To: Jivan Mukta Dasa [[email protected]], COM: Bir Krishna das Goswami [[email protected]], COM: Sesa (das) ACBSP (GBC) [[email protected]], MARIA_EKSTRAND [[email protected]], COM: Badrinarayan (das) ACBSP (San Diego - USA) [[email protected]], Drishta [[email protected]], manu [[email protected]], Muralivadaka [[email protected]], WWW: Murari (Dasa) SDG (WWW-COM Sysop) [[email protected]], COM: Bhakti Raghava Swami [[email protected]] Subject: Re: ISKCON School NC On 28 Nov 1996, Jivan Mukta Dasa wrote: > Regarding the statement you denied saying, who is the liar? You [Bir Krishna Dasa Goswami] or Urmila dd. Dear Jivan Mukta and Sita Prabhus, Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada! Have living near the Hillsborough, NC temple for over five years, I have a great deal of personal experience with Bir Krishna Maharaja's questionable activities including lying and duplicitous dealings. I have communicated with him about these activities in private on numerous occasions, but he has thus far been unable to rectify himself. The situation seems to get worse and worse as the years go by. I think that it has now gotten completely out of hand. As you know, I've been doing a great deal of traveling lately, and after talking with hundreds of devotees, I was surprised to find out that if I tried to say anything good about BKG, I would often immediately get shot down! I honestly couldn't find anyone who had anything good to say about him! Many of these devotees were with him in Miami or Gainsville, or they are currently living in North Carolina, so they know him very well. A very senior godbrother, who personally witnessed how BKG deals with the women at "BKG's temple", gave a detailed, step-by-step explanation of how he is engaging in subtle sex with them. A third senior godbrother was present at the time. I recounted these details (including all names) to a GBC/sannyasi/guru (in private) and later to a temple president (in private). Having dealt with sensitive matters with ISKCON authorities in the past, I was fully expecting these devotees to try to avoid the issue by putting me down or by putting down the witness. For example, years ago, when I tried to criticize a temple president to a GBC man, the GBC man said, "Well, who are you? You just have a ***** job!" But neither of these authorities I recently spoke to did either of these things! They had absolutely nothing critical to say about the witness or myself! I thought, maybe there's still hope! The temple president immediately accepted my explanation of BKG. The GBC/sannyasi/guru said, "I don't know, I have no experience of such things." I have personal documentary proof of BKG's duplicitous, lying ways. Here is an excerpt from a proposal that my wife gave him a copy of a few weeks ago: ************************************************************************* Proposal for Producing An Enhanced CD Version of the Bhagavad-Gita Illustrated Introduction CD as a Pilot Project for Future Gurukula Curriculum Development on CD-ROMs and to Accompany the Sale of the Book by the Same Title by Pratyatosa dasa ([email protected]) .. Austere vanaprastha living facility on the temple property in Hillsborough $2500.00 Audio card with digital (S/PDIF) I/O 620.00 External parallel port 1.6GB hard drive 520.00 (20) 800M Travan backup tapes @$24 each 480.00 (50) 74 min. CD-Recordable media @$6 each 300.00 (5) DAT tapes @ $10 each 50.00 Personal maintenance 0.00 ------http://july9th.allalla.com/ISKCON_stuff/Gurus_GBC_leaders/PrayatosaOnBeerKrsna.txt[12/21/13 9:32:20 AM] Grand Total being requested $4470.00 ************************************************************************* Please note that this proposal clearly provides for me to build living facilities for myself on "BKG's temple" property. Here are quotes from BKG's replies to me about the proposal (no other receivers): Email message WWW22989, 26 Oct 96: "Yes, I saw the proposal that you typed up and I think that it is first class. We definitely should start work on this asap." Email message WWW23026, 27 Oct 96: "Yes, I could sign the proposal. No changes are necessary. Here is a quote from a message BKG sent to my wife (no other receivers): Email message WWW23375, 04 Nov 96: "I don't want Pratyatosa living at the temple. Finished. Bas. Never. Nunca. Jamais." [I'm sure my wife is very impressed with your clever wit, Maharaj!] Here is a quote from a message BKG sent to me (no other receivers) after I confronted him with the above message on Nov. 7: Email message WWW23575, 07 Nov 96: "It is just that I firmly believe it is an incompatible situation to have you living here, and I wrongly did not convey this information to you previously." Now my proposal, which I spent alot of time working on, is completely out the window! Chanakya Pandit says: "One should avoid a friend who speaks sweetly in one's presence and acts against one behind one's back. Such a friend is like a pitcher full of poison, with milk at the surface." I did not communicate with BKG between the time he sent the 2nd message to me and the time he sent the message to my wife. I never saw him during this time because I was out of town. It wasn't until Nov. 7 that I said anything to him about the message, so he had plenty of time to contact me directly, and even though my wife requested him to do so, he never did. It was only by Krishna performing an incredible miracle that I obtained a copy of this and several other personal messages from BKG to my wife. In another message from BKG to my wife, he also criticized me to her. Even the staements that were not critical were much too casual!!! I also miraculously received copies of several personal messages from Harikesa Maharaj to by wife (no other receivers) which I also considered too casual, including one that says "I'm not a big gun, I'm just a little fire-cracker." [I'm sure my wife is really impressed with your humility, Maharaj!] He also sent a message critical of me, behind my back, which got to my wife. When I confronted him with it he wrote back: COM465830, 08 Nov 96: "Please do not write to me anymore." plus some sarcastic remark, and that's it! I humbly requested both of them to send me copies of all of their future private email messages to my wife, and that they request her to do the same, but BKG said that he had to get my wife's permission first! From HKS there has been no reply, and I have not received copies of any messages, so far, even though this exchange occurred weeks ago. I personally want BKG off of the board of directors of ISKCON Education of NC, Inc. (My wife's gurukula). I have requested that he resign on several occasions in the past, and each time he said that he would, but he never did! I do not think that he is a good influence on my wife and children, and I want him off! When I got back from Denmark, this past August, I was told that I had been unanamously voted off the board by all of the other board members including my wife and my oldest son! This supposedly happened while I was in the air over the Atlantic! I asked BKG for an explanation and he said, "I just do whatever she says."! I asked my wife why I was voted off the board and she said, "The board was a farse when you were on it because everybody just went along with everything that you proposed." I said, "If you wanted me off the board, why did you leave it to the last minute. I've been gone for 4 1/2 months." She said that she was hoping that I wouldn't come back until after our daughter, Yamuna, was 18, so that my daughter could replace me on the board, so our family would still be the majority! I hope this finds you both in good health and blissful Krishna consciousness. Your servant, Pratyatosa dasa P.S. I would appreciate it if I could get some feedback on this from our distinguished list of receivers!
June 18th, 1999
http://july9th.allalla.com/ISKCON_stuff/Gurus_GBC_leaders/PrayatosaOnBeerKrsna.txt[12/21/13 9:32:20 AM] Dear Prabhus,
Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
Please excuse the emotional nature of the following letter, but I'm more than a little upset by what has recently transpired.
Someone hacked into my "[email protected]" account last night, and changed the password. They also changed the answer to the question "What is your mother's maiden name.", so I can't get back into the account! This means that I can no longer receive any messages that are sent to that email address, and I was recently receiving messages to that email address almost daily!
This is illegal, and is a clear violation of:
http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html
"The United Nations Declaration of Human Rights
"Article 12
"No one shall be subject to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks."
Is it just a coincidence that this is the email address which I was recently using to communicate with my wife? My "[email protected]" account, and my "[email protected]" account could have been hacked just as easily, but they weren't! My "[email protected]" account is the one that I usually use to communicate with my wife, but it has a more difficult "Password Hint Question" to answer, one that even my wife would not know.
Just to give you a little background, ever since my wife and I moved to North Carolina in 1991, Bir Krishna dasa Goswami (BKG) has been working on trying to turn her against me in very subtle, devious ways. He was doing many of the things which I would normally have done for her in 1991, when she was living in NC, but I was still spending most of my time in Detroit, working on selling the two houses which we owned there.
BKG is of Jewish background, and was born and raised in New York City. My wife is also of Jewish background, and she was also born and raised in New York City. This gives him a big advantage over me, who was born and raised as a "hick"/ "country bumpkin" from a remote area of Michigan's "Upper Peninsula". (See: "Preaching Center for Toots* and Yoopers*? (Good Source For KC Husbands?)" - http://www.com.org/hb/ptd/Toots_and_Yoopers.htm). Another thing that they have in common is that they both want to be ISKCON leaders and "gurus", they are both very attached to name, fame, and reputation, they are godbrother and godsister, they are both in charge of independent ISKCON projects (an ISKCON temple and an ISKCON school), they both live in the woods on adjacent hilltops a short ten minute walk from each other, they both live alone and have completely private entrances coming in out of the woods, etc.
She may have gotten quite attached to him in 1991, while I was still living in Detroit. This may have had the effect of turning her more and more against me when I lived with her in NC between 1991 and 1996, because I would very often criticize him.
In 1996, she obtained a restraining order and a legal separation from me against my wishes. Now that I've been gone for over 3 years, BKG is more than likely still doing things for her that a husband would normally do.
http://july9th.allalla.com/ISKCON_stuff/Gurus_GBC_leaders/PrayatosaOnBeerKrsna.txt[12/21/13 9:32:20 AM] My theory is that the hacking was done my BKG a.k.a. Bruce Jacobs of Hillsborough, North Carolina, USA. He and my wife, against my wishes, are both on the board of directors of "ISKCON Education of North Carolina, Inc.", the non-profit corporation which owns my wife's house, where she runs an ISKCON boarding school.
My wife and I are currently at odds about the multi-million dollar lawsuit which I am involved in against ISKCON for horendous sexual child molestation and rape in ISKCON's boarding schools.
Recently, all of my 175 "Saved" messages on WWW-COM, a private Internet discussion Web site which is owned by my son, Murari Dasa (SDG), who also happens to live in Hillsborough, NC, just on the other side of my wife's (his mother's) house (on the side away from the woods).
Yesterday I received a second apology from my son for losing my messages, but every time that I ask him, "Why did 26 out of 175 suddenly reappear, and then disappear again?", he just ignores me. The 26 messages that temporarily reappeared just happened to be ones that could not possibly be of any value in fighting a lawsuit against ISKCON, but many of the missing ones were very incriminating to ISKCON leaders such as Badrinarayan, Harikesa, and BKG. Another coincidence???
My speculation is that restoring some of the messages was my son's idea, but then BKG told him that this was a bad idea because then how was he going to answer the questions, "If you could restore some of them, then why not all of them?", and "Why are the ones that were restored of the 'non-incriminating' variety?", so he again deleted the 26 also!
I intend to immediately notify the FBI and [email protected]. This time he has gone too far!!!
Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa [email protected] http://www.com.org/hb/ptd/
June 18th, 1999
Dear Prabhus,
Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
Please excuse the emotional nature of the following letter, but I'm more than a little upset by what has recently transpired.
Someone hacked into my "[email protected]" account last night, and changed the password. They also changed the answer to the question "What is your mother's maiden name.", so I can't get back into the account! This means that I can no longer receive any messages that are sent to that email address, and I was recently receiving messages to that email address almost daily!
This is illegal, and is a clear violation of:
http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html
"The United Nations Declaration of Human Rights
"Article 12
"No one shall be subject to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his http://july9th.allalla.com/ISKCON_stuff/Gurus_GBC_leaders/PrayatosaOnBeerKrsna.txt[12/21/13 9:32:20 AM] honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks."
Is it just a coincidence that this is the email address which I was recently using to communicate with my wife? My "[email protected]" account, and my "[email protected]" account could have been hacked just as easily, but they weren't! My "[email protected]" account is the one that I usually use to communicate with my wife, but it has a more difficult "Password Hint Question" to answer, one that even my wife would not know.
Just to give you a little background, ever since my wife and I moved to North Carolina in 1991, Bir Krishna dasa Goswami (BKG) has been working on trying to turn her against me in very subtle, devious ways. He was doing many of the things which I would normally have done for her in 1991, when she was living in NC, but I was still spending most of my time in Detroit, working on selling the two houses which we owned there.
BKG is of Jewish background, and was born and raised in New York City. My wife is also of Jewish background, and she was also born and raised in New York City. This gives him a big advantage over me, who was born and raised as a "hick"/ "country bumpkin" from a remote area of Michigan's "Upper Peninsula". (See: "Preaching Center for Toots* and Yoopers*? (Good Source For KC Husbands?)" - http://www.com.org/hb/ptd/Toots_and_Yoopers.htm). Another thing that they have in common is that they both want to be ISKCON leaders and "gurus", they are both very attached to name, fame, and reputation, they are godbrother and godsister, they are both in charge of independent ISKCON projects (an ISKCON temple and an ISKCON school), they both live in the woods on adjacent hilltops a short ten minute walk from each other, they both live alone and have completely private entrances coming in out of the woods, etc.
She may have gotten quite attached to him in 1991, while I was still living in Detroit. This may have had the effect of turning her more and more against me when I lived with her in NC between 1991 and 1996, because I would very often criticize him.
In 1996, she obtained a restraining order and a legal separation from me against my wishes. Now that I've been gone for over 3 years, BKG is more than likely still doing things for her that a husband would normally do.
My theory is that the hacking was done my BKG a.k.a. Bruce Jacobs of Hillsborough, North Carolina, USA. He and my wife, against my wishes, are both on the board of directors of "ISKCON Education of North Carolina, Inc.", the non-profit corporation which owns my wife's house, where she runs an ISKCON boarding school.
My wife and I are currently at odds about the multi-million dollar lawsuit which I am involved in against ISKCON for horendous sexual child molestation and rape in ISKCON's boarding schools.
Recently, all of my 175 "Saved" messages on WWW-COM, a private Internet discussion Web site which is owned by my son, Murari Dasa (SDG), who also happens to live in Hillsborough, NC, just on the other side of my wife's (his mother's) house (on the side away from the woods).
Yesterday I received a second apology from my son for losing my messages, but every time that I ask him, "Why did 26 out of 175 suddenly reappear, and then disappear again?", he just ignores me. The 26 messages that temporarily reappeared just happened to be ones that could not possibly be of any value in fighting a lawsuit against ISKCON, but many of the missing ones were very incriminating to ISKCON leaders such as Badrinarayan, Harikesa, and BKG. Another coincidence???
My speculation is that restoring some of the messages was my son's idea, but then BKG told him that this was a bad idea because then how was he going to answer the questions, "If you could restore some of them, then why not all of them?", and "Why are the ones that were restored of the 'non-incriminating' variety?", so he again deleted the 26 also!
http://july9th.allalla.com/ISKCON_stuff/Gurus_GBC_leaders/PrayatosaOnBeerKrsna.txt[12/21/13 9:32:20 AM] I intend to immediately notify the FBI and [email protected]. This time he has gone too far!!!
Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa [email protected] http://www.com.org/hb/ptd/
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Reply
M. Tandy Jun 18 1999, 12:00 am show options Newsgroups: alt.religion.vaisnava From: "M. Tandy"
> This may have had the effect of turning her more and > more against me when I lived with her in NC between 1991 and 1996, > because I would very often criticize him. > Yesterday I received a second apology from my son for losing my > messages, but every time that I ask him, "Why did 26 out of 175 suddenly > reappear, and then disappear again?", he just ignores me.
> My speculation is that restoring some of the messages was my son's idea, > I intend to immediately notify the FBI and [email protected]. This time
> he has gone too far!!!
No point in speculating. Just interact decently with vaishnavas, try to restore some attractive personality traits (therapy can often help with this kind of thing), and cultivate devotion to KRSNa-nAma; if you do these, I'm sure they'll like you once again and you won't be so frustrated. MT
Reply
Pratyatosa Dasa Jun 18 1999, 12:00 am show options Newsgroups: alt.religion.vaisnava From: Pratyatosa Dasa
> It can be any mischief-maker doing that for fun and not necessarily your > opponents.
"Any mischief-maker" does not know my mother's maiden name, but my wife does!
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't
http://july9th.allalla.com/ISKCON_stuff/Gurus_GBC_leaders/PrayatosaOnBeerKrsna.txt[12/21/13 9:32:20 AM] . Reply
s800045 Jun 19 1999, 12:00 am show options Newsgroups: alt.religion.vaisnava From:
Well, it's bad your email account was hacked into but it's wrong to pinpoint someone out of your mental speculations. It's as wrong as when I say that Puranjana frequently hacks into COM without providing sufficient evidence.
It can be any mischief-maker doing that for fun and not necessarily your opponents
. To help you out, you can ask hotmail to close that account. That's the safest thing to do. Open another one and remember, stop abusing the free web mail in passing anti-ISKCON rubbish. Seems the hacker was sent by Krishna! Just another point, your fruitless endeavour to sue ISKCON will be a loss for you. You already admit that you have lost your family. I believe you have been wrongly inspired by the ritviks. These brain-washers are just using you to see their end meet. Realise that b4 it's too late.
ys Sundeep Sharma
Reply
Pratyatosa Dasa Jun 19 1999, 12:00 am show options Newsgroups: alt.religion.vaisnava From: Pratyatosa Dasa
June 18th, 1999 Dear Prabhus, Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada! Please excuse the emotional nature of the following letter, but I'm more than a little upset by what has recently transpired. Someone hacked into my "[email protected]" account last night, and changed the password
. He
also changed the answer to the question "What is your mother's maiden name.", so I can't get back into the account! This means that I can no longer receive any messages that are sent to that email address, and I was recently receiving messages to that email address almost daily! This is illegal, and is a clear violation of
: "The United Nations Declaration of Human Rights (http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html)
http://july9th.allalla.com/ISKCON_stuff/Gurus_GBC_leaders/PrayatosaOnBeerKrsna.txt[12/21/13 9:32:20 AM] "
Article 12 "No one shall be subject to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks
." My theory is that the hacking was done by Bir Krishna dasa Goswami (BKG) a.k.a. Bruce Jacobs of Hillsborough, North Carolina, USA.
Is it just a coincidence that this is the email address which I
recently used to send BKG and the whole GBC the following message?: ****************** Begin copied text ****************** Tamal Krishna Goswami's Stammering
Re: Tamal Krishna Goswami Speaks Out (http://www.vnn.org/world/WD9906/WD11-4079.html):
The author says, "Why does [Tamal Krishna] Maharaja stammer so badly?"
TKG is not the only ISKCON "guru" who can't speak very well.
Listen to a Srimad Bhagavatam lecture tape by Ravindra Swarupa dasa, last year's chairman of the GBC Executive Committee, and count how many times he says, "Ahhhhh"!
Then try listening to a lecture tape by Bir Krishna dasa Goswami, this year's chairman of the GBC Executive Committee, and count how many times he says, "So...Anyway...So"!
Are these speech defects a symptom of something?
Why do they seem to be getting worse, instead of better? ****************** End of copied text *****************
This was probably the prime motivation for him to ask my wife what my mother's maiden name is, and to hack my "[email protected]" email account, so he could see what kind of response I had gotten to this message.
My "[email protected]" account, and my "[email protected]" account could have been hacked just as easily, but they weren't
, but BKG didn't know about those two! He knows about my "[email protected]" account,
but it has a more difficult "Password Hint Question" to answer, one that even my wife
does
not know. Just to give you a little background, ever since my wife and I moved to http://july9th.allalla.com/ISKCON_stuff/Gurus_GBC_leaders/PrayatosaOnBeerKrsna.txt[12/21/13 9:32:20 AM] North Carolina in 1991
,
BKG has been working on trying to turn her against me in very subtle, devious ways. He was doing many of the things which I would normally have done for her in 1991, when she was living in NC, but I was still spending most of my time in Detroit, working on selling the two houses which we owned there. BKG is of Jewish background, and was born and raised in New York City. My wife is also of Jewish background, and she was also born and raised in New York City. This gives him a big advantage over me, who was born and raised as a "hick"/ "country bumpkin
" in a remote area of Michigan's "Upper Peninsula". [See: "Preaching Center for Toots* and Yoopers*? (Good Source For KC Husbands?)" - http://www.com.org/hb/ptd/Toots_and_Yoopers.htm
]. Other things
that they have in common is that they both want to be ISKCON leaders and "gurus", they are both very attached to name, fame, and reputation, they are godbrother and godsister, they are both in charge of independent ISKCON projects (an ISKCON temple and an ISKCON school
), and they take turns giving Bhagavatam class at the temple.
She may have gotten quite attached to him in 1991, while I was still living in Detroit. This may have had the effect of turning her more and more against me when I lived with her in NC between 1991 and 1996, because I would very often criticize him. In 1996, she obtained a restraining order and a legal separation from me against my wishes. Now that I've been gone for over 3 years, BKG is more than likely still doing things for her that a husband would normally do
. He and my wife, also
against my wishes, are both on the board of directors of "ISKCON Education of North Carolina, Inc.", the non-profit corporation which owns my wife's house, where she runs an ISKCON boarding school. My wife and I are currently at odds about the multi-million dollar lawsuit which I am involved in, against ISKCON for
horrendous sexual child molestation and child
- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - rape in ISKCON's boarding schools. Recently, all of my 175 "Saved" messages on WWW-COM, a private Internet discussion Web site which is owned by my son, Murari Dasa (SDG), who also happens to live in Hillsborough, NC, just on the other side of my wife's (his mother's) house (on the side away from the woods). Yesterday I received a second apology from my son for losing my messages, but every time that I ask him, "Why did 26 out of 175 suddenly reappear, and then disappear again?", he just ignores me. The 26 messages that temporarily reappeared just happened to be ones that could not possibly be of any value in fighting a lawsuit against ISKCON, but http://july9th.allalla.com/ISKCON_stuff/Gurus_GBC_leaders/PrayatosaOnBeerKrsna.txt[12/21/13 9:32:20 AM] many of the missing ones were very incriminating to ISKCON leaders such as Badrinarayan, Harikesa, and BKG. Another coincidence??? My speculation is that restoring some of the messages was my son's idea, but then BKG told him that this was a bad idea because then how was he going to answer the questions, "If you could restore some of them, then why not all of them?", and "Why are the ones that were restored of the 'non-incriminating' variety?", so he again deleted the 26 also! I intend to immediately notify the FBI and [email protected]. This time
Bir Krishna dasa Goswami
has gone too far!!! Your servant, Pratyatosa Dasa [email protected] http://www.com.org/hb/ptd/ Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't
. Reply
soybean2k Jun 19 1999, 12:00 am show options Newsgroups: alt.religion.vaisnava From: [email protected] - Find messages by this author Date: 1999/06/19 Subject: Re: FBI to be notified!!!! Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse Hare Krsna. Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
Of course I am merely an insignifigant member of the peanut gallery, and nothing I have to say could conceivably be of any importance whatsoever. Nonetheless paramatma has lain it upon my heart to speak. So please forgive my peanut-gallery chatterings, Pratyatosa, whose spiritual advancement is eons beyond my kenning.
you wrote:
- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - > Someone hacked into my "[email protected]" account last night, and > changed the password. They also changed the answer to the question "What > is your mother's maiden name.", so I can't get back into the account! > This means that I can no longer receive any messages that are sent to > that email address, and I was recently receiving messages to that email > address almost daily! > This is illegal, and is a clear violation of:
> http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html
> "The United Nations Declaration of Human Rights
> "Article 12
> "No one shall be subject to arbitrary interference with his > privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his > honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection > of the law against such interference or attacks."
http://july9th.allalla.com/ISKCON_stuff/Gurus_GBC_leaders/PrayatosaOnBeerKrsna.txt[12/21/13 9:32:20 AM] OK, agreed. But almost immediately you wrote:
- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - > Just to give you a little background, ever since my wife and I moved to > North Carolina in 1991, Bir Krishna dasa Goswami (BKG) has been working > on trying to turn her against me in very subtle, devious ways. He was > doing many of the things which I would normally have done for her in > 1991, when she was living in NC, but I was still spending most of my > time in Detroit, working on selling the two houses which we owned there. > BKG is of Jewish background, and was born and raised in New York City. > My wife is also of Jewish background, and she was also born and raised > in New York City. This gives him a big advantage over me, who was born > and raised as a "hick"/ "country bumpkin" from a remote area of > Michigan's "Upper Peninsula". (See: "Preaching Center for Toots* and > Yoopers*? (Good Source For KC Husbands?)" - > http://www.com.org/hb/ptd/Toots_and_Yoopers.htm). Another thing that > they have in common is that they both want to be ISKCON leaders and > "gurus", they are both very attached to name, fame, and reputation
and
> My theory is that the hacking was done my BKG a.k.a. Bruce Jacobs of > Hillsborough, North Carolina, USA. He and my wife, against my wishes, > are both on the board of directors of "ISKCON Education of North > Carolina, Inc.", the non-profit corporation which owns my wife's house, > where she runs an ISKCON boarding school.
and
> My speculation is that restoring some of the messages was my son's idea, > but then BKG told him that this was a bad idea because then how was he > going to answer the questions, "If you could restore some of them, then > why not all of them?", and "Why are the ones that were restored of the > 'non-incriminating' variety?", so he again deleted the 26 also!
Surely you must have notice the irony here. Your unfounded speculation and paranoid, bee-stung aspersions against Bir Krsna Goswami are in violation of The United Nations Declaration of Human Rights
Article 12 No one shall be subject to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.
N.B. "...nor to attacks upon his honor and reputation." You make such attacks routinely and thoughtlessly. Then somebody hacks your account. They are wrong to do so and will, of course, pay the penalty; I hope you catch them. But I would hope that the clear elements of karma working here do not escape your notice. Krsna is trying to tell you something.
JD
--
------http://NewsReader.Com/ ------Usenet for the Web Reply
s800045 Jun 19 1999, 12:00 am show options http://july9th.allalla.com/ISKCON_stuff/Gurus_GBC_leaders/PrayatosaOnBeerKrsna.txt[12/21/13 9:32:20 AM] Newsgroups: alt.religion.vaisnava From:
Sundeep Sharma *******************************************************************************
On Fri, 18 Jun 1999, Pratyatosa Dasa wrote:
- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - > > It can be any mischief-maker doing that for fun and not necessarily > your > > opponents.
> "Any mischief-maker" does not know my mother's maiden name, but my wife > does!
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
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Pratyatosa Dasa Jun 19 1999, 12:00 am show options Newsgroups: alt.religion.vaisnava From: Pratyatosa Dasa
> N.B. "...nor to attacks upon his honor and reputation." You make such > attacks routinely and thoughtlessly.
I'm not the one whose been beating, murdering, abusing, raping, lying to, stealing from, molesting, and "kicking out" Srila Prabhupada's dear disciples. It's the GBC and their supporters.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't
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Premada Jun 20 1999, 12:00 am show options Newsgroups: alt.religion.vaisnava From: [email protected] (Premada) - Find messages by this author Date: 1999/06/20 Subject: Re: FBI to be notified!!!! Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse Pratyatosa,
As many devotees can testify, I am not much of one to speak out against Vaishnavas, the GBC, or any individual.
http://july9th.allalla.com/ISKCON_stuff/Gurus_GBC_leaders/PrayatosaOnBeerKrsna.txt[12/21/13 9:32:20 AM] However the exact same scenario you describe with your wife in North Carolina has also happened with a dear and honest friend of mine.
He was actually just narrating the story to me on the phone last week when I spoke with him. This situation has led to... well, so many problems that culminated in he and his wife splitting up.
Anyway, Pratyatos, I disagree with you 99% of the time. But I know that on this issue you are speaking the truth.
Ys Muralidhar Dasa
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Premada Jun 20 1999, 12:00 am show options Newsgroups: alt.religion.vaisnava From: [email protected] (Premada) - Find messages by this author Date: 1999/06/20 Subject: Re: FBI to be notified!!!! Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse Just to clarify my previous post a bit:
I am not saying I agree with Pratyatosas naming Bir Krsna as the culprit in his hacking, but the "background" scenario he layed was certainly true. A very simpleminded and sincere Vaishnava friend of mine had the exact same scenario apply to him.
And yes, Sundeep and others, it is true that this is certainly his Karma. But just because it is his karma does not mean that the parties guilty of the offenses are not to be held responsible. If I were to kill someone, this could not happen unless it were their karma to be killed. Yet still, I would be heaping karma upon my head. Just like the alleged murder of Srila Prabhupada (which I do not favor any side of the issue). A pure devotee cannot be killed. But even if he chose to enact that lila, then the people "responsible" for the poisoning will have so much hell to pay. Krsna has not yet invented a hell to punish such an offender.
So we cannot use Pratyatosas previous offenses as justification for any wrongs done to him. That is not Vaishnavism. That is some pretty heavy authoritarian dynamics that have no place in a spiritual society.
Ys Muralidhar Dasa
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s800045 Jun 21 1999, 12:00 am show options Newsgroups: alt.religion.vaisnava From:
> And yes, Sundeep and others, it is true that this is certainly his Karma. But > just because it is his karma does not mean that the parties guilty of the > offenses are not to be held responsible. If I were to kill someone, this could > not happen unless it were their karma to be killed. Yet still, I would be > heaping karma upon my head.
Agreed.
> Just like the alleged murder of Srila Prabhupada (which I do not favor any side http://july9th.allalla.com/ISKCON_stuff/Gurus_GBC_leaders/PrayatosaOnBeerKrsna.txt[12/21/13 9:32:20 AM] > of the issue). A pure devotee cannot be killed. But even if he chose to enact > that lila, then the people "responsible" for the poisoning will have so much > hell to pay. Krsna has not yet invented a hell to punish such an offender.
I won't disagree with you here philosophically, with regard to poisoning a pure devotee, though I know Srila Prabhupada's faithful disciples never killed him.
> So we cannot use Pratyatosas previous offenses as justification for any wrongs > done to him. That is not Vaishnavism. That is some pretty heavy authoritarian > dynamics that have no place in a spiritual society.
I agree, 2 wrongs don't make a right. But just an interesting question, not related to Pratyatosa. How about doing something wrong when it is absolutely necessary? For example, breaking into someone's house to save a kid when it'a on fire, giving an illegal drug to someone as a last resort, taking meat when it's absolutely necessary (relates to Jesus providing fish)? I know karma will still be incurred but to what extent? Are these acts better or worse than just observing? ys SS
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Premada Jun 21 1999, 12:00 am show options Newsgroups: alt.religion.vaisnava From: [email protected] (Premada) - Find messages by this author Date: 1999/06/21 Subject: Re: FBI to be notified!!!! Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse
------I won't disagree with you here philosophically, with regard to poisoning a pure devotee, though I know Srila Prabhupada's faithful disciples never killed him
. ------I also used to "know" that Srila Prabhupadas faithful disciples would never take to the criticism of a pure devotee. Then I realized that his FAITHFUL devotees would not. Unfortunatly, there are many people in the dress of faithful devotees who are not faithful devotees. I also -knew- that Prabhupadas faithful devotees would not... do so many things as well as have honest devotees wives disassociated from them.
But once more, I don't favor these people pushing that Srila Prabhupada was poisoned. I really want to -know- that it isn't true. Unfortunatly, I've had some harsh lessons in trusting the minds knowings above Guru, Sadhu, and Sastra.
I have not read their poisoning book, and I don't intend to. I don't know who they are suggesting the guilty parties are, and I don't want to.
------I agree, 2 wrongs don't make a right. But just an interesting question, not related to Pratyatosa. How about doing something wrong when it is absolutely necessary? For example, breaking into someone's house to save a kid when it'a on fire, giving an illegal drug to someone as a last resort, taking meat when it's absolutely necessary (relates to Jesus providing fish)? I know karma will still be incurred but to what extent? Are these acts better or worse than just observing
? ------http://july9th.allalla.com/ISKCON_stuff/Gurus_GBC_leaders/PrayatosaOnBeerKrsna.txt[12/21/13 9:32:20 AM] Well, breaking into a house to save a life certainly brings some karma, but it is not vikarma. We must remember the laws of Karma are not some stringent computer codes, but that they are carried out by the Demigods, great persons possessed of great power of discrimination. Administering an illegal drug as a last resort? To save a life? No harm is there.
Taking meat when it's absolutely nessesary. Srila Prabhupada once said that we should, if it is absolutely nessesary. So this is the request of the spiritual master.
So far as Jesus providing fish, I have it on good authority that Jesus was not providing dead sea animals to his disciples, but that fish was actually a code word, if you take it back into the hebrew, that referred to his initiating a preistly class of man.
Ys Muralidhar Dasa
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s800045 Jun 22 1999, 12:00 am show options Newsgroups: alt.religion.vaisnava From:
> I also used to "know" that Srila Prabhupadas faithful disciples would never > take to the criticism of a pure devotee. Then I realized that his FAITHFUL > devotees would not. Unfortunatly, there are many people in the dress of > faithful devotees who are not faithful devotees. > I also -knew- that Prabhupadas faithful devotees would not... do so many things > as well as have honest devotees wives disassociated from them.
Those who have made mistakes are not faithfuls. These include the ones who were involved in child abuse and similar cases. I agree there. But the "Poison guys" are saying that the GBC poisoned Srila Prabhupada and that is not true. Can it be true? They accuse Srila Tamala Krishna Goswami of being the mastermind, not realising the service he has done to Srila Prabhupada and his organisation. While they are enacting all means of defaming and criticising Srila Tamala Krishna Goswami, he simply ignores their foolishness and continues his service despite his health problems. Yet, they accuse him so disgustfully. It all arises out of envy. They will certainly pay heavily for this gross vaishnava appradha they are commiting. It's so sad that instead of appreciating they are criticising. ys SS
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Premada Jun 22 1999, 12:00 am show options Newsgroups: alt.religion.vaisnava From: [email protected] (Premada) - Find messages by this author Date: 1999/06/22 Subject: Re: FBI to be notified!!!! Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse
------Those who have made mistakes are not faithfuls. These include the ones who were involved in child abuse and similar cases. I agree there. But the "Poison guys" are saying that the GBC poisoned Srila Prabhupada and that http://july9th.allalla.com/ISKCON_stuff/Gurus_GBC_leaders/PrayatosaOnBeerKrsna.txt[12/21/13 9:32:20 AM] is not true. Can it be true? They accuse Srila Tamala Krishna Goswami of being the mastermind, not realising the service he has done to Srila Prabhupada and his organisation. While they are enacting all means of defaming and criticising Srila Tamala Krishna Goswami, he simply ignores their foolishness and continues his service despite his health problems. Yet, they accuse him so disgustfully. It all arises out of envy. They will certainly pay heavily for this gross vaishnava appradha they are commiting. It's so sad that instead of appreciating they are criticising
. ------Sundeep, Forgive me for being "devils advocate" as it were, but I beleive that they are suggesting that this service is not actual service, but rather enemy intelligence infiltrating Srila Prabhupadas movement. (laughs) And again, I don't hold this opinion.
You see, if he did indeed administer some poison (and I don't think this can be entirely ruled out either, except on the basis of sentiment, which is not our business as spiritualists) then all his supposed service is actually service to Kali Yuga. I might refer you to the purports of verses 218 and 220 of Madya Lila chapter one.
But yes, I agree, if he is innocent of these charges, then there is so much misery awaiting those propounding these beleifs. Some are just looking for truth, and for them it is not so bad... Honestly, the levels of arenic in Srila Prabhupadas hair should make one wonder. And to seek the truth in the issue is only right. But in America we have an idea I'm quite fond of. Inoocent until proven guilty. Those who are making so many offenses... Is very dark and dangerous waters.
Ys Muralidhar Dasa
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s800045 Jun 23 1999, 12:00 am show options Newsgroups: alt.religion.vaisnava From:
- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - > ------> Those who have made mistakes are not faithfuls. These include the ones who > were involved in child abuse and similar cases. I agree there. But the > "Poison guys" are saying that the GBC poisoned Srila Prabhupada and that > is not true. Can it be true? They accuse Srila Tamala Krishna Goswami of > being the mastermind, not realising the service he has done to Srila > Prabhupada and his organisation. While they are enacting all means of > defaming and criticising Srila Tamala Krishna Goswami, he simply ignores > their foolishness and continues his service despite his health problems. > Yet, they accuse him so disgustfully. It all arises out of envy. They will > certainly pay heavily for this gross vaishnava appradha they are > commiting. It's so sad that instead of appreciating they are criticising. > ------> Sundeep, > Forgive me for being "devils advocate" as it were, but I beleive that they are > suggesting that this service is not actual service, but rather enemy > intelligence infiltrating Srila Prabhupadas movement. (laughs) And again, I > don't hold this opinion.
http://july9th.allalla.com/ISKCON_stuff/Gurus_GBC_leaders/PrayatosaOnBeerKrsna.txt[12/21/13 9:32:20 AM] > You see, if he did indeed administer some poison (and I don't think this can be > entirely ruled out either, except on the basis of sentiment, which is not our > business as spiritualists) then all his supposed service is actually service to > Kali Yuga. I might refer you to the purports of verses 218 and 220 of Madya > Lila chapter one.
> But yes, I agree, if he is innocent of these charges, then there is so much > misery awaiting those propounding these beleifs. Some are just looking for > truth, and for them it is not so bad... Honestly, the levels of arenic in Srila > Prabhupadas hair should make one wonder. And to seek the truth in the issue is > only right. But in America we have an idea I'm quite fond of. Inoocent until > proven guilty. Those who are making so many offenses... Is very dark and > dangerous waters.
> Ys > Muralidhar Dasa
Yes, the status quo is that everyone is innocent unless it is rejected. That the Poisonists can't do. To accuse someone is easy. Ican very easily say that Puranjana was chastised by Srila Prabhupada when he tried to concoct his philosophy, called him a monkey, and that's why Tim Lee poisoned him! This is highly likely and Srila Tamala Krishna Goswami poisoning him is unbelievable, at least to someone who gets closer to Srila Prabhupada through him. ys SS
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