I May Have Discovered Something... [Now a Community Experiment - Please Contribute]

I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

Underhillmaster (Mycology Enthusiast) 26/09/05 10:21 PM

I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

To tell you the truth, I am not sure I should even be telling anybody this, but I feel like I have to. If you were to discover this on your own and try it, without it a warning, it could be bad. I am in my 30s and have done psychedelics since my teens. I have done shrooms, acid, X, and DXM in my life. I have had memorable experiences like anyone who trips, and I know I have pushed the limits of common sense in some of my dosage. Regardless of that, I have only reached a level 5 trip on DXM and non of the other psychedelics(even a combination of 2 or more at once lol). That was until last night.

I, like most people who read these forums, have had a long interest in possible ways to increase potency. Since I started growing shrooms myself about a year ago, I have put a little more time into research. I read a post about using cranberry juice for extraction and after talking about it with a friend, we came up with the idea of powdering your shrooms and combining with about 2 oz. of cranberry juice and slamming it like a shot. So I tried it, and was amazed at how fast it hit, how intense it was, and what was really going on. I posted a post here on the forums asking for anyone that may have had a similar experience or a possible explanation. I let people reply for a couple weeks and I tried a control experiment. I know from past experience, that chewing a drug up, or powdering and combining with water usually makes it hit faster and be more intense and shorter duration. I took the same dose as I took with the cranberry(2+ grams). The trip was nowhere near the intensity of the cranberry method. I checked back in with the forum and someone had came up with a possible explanation. The pH of cranberry is under 4. Making it one of the most acidic drinks you can get. That may be why it is used in extraction methods. It was also mentioned that the only more acidic juice you can find would be straight lemon or lime juice, both of which have a pH under 2(extremely acidic). I mentioned in the forum that I would try lemon/lime for my next trip.

Fast forward six months later. I finally was able to try it last night. During the six months, many of my friends have tried the cranberry method, and each one to a one has said that it is unlike anything else. It is hard to explain how much stronger the trip is. It is so strong that you need to be careful with it, i.e, if you normally take 3 grams for a heavy trip, only put 1 or 2 in your cranberry juice. Well, after trying lemon/lime, I think I may have opened Pandoras box!!!!!!!! I squeezed 2 lemons and a lime into a cup, combined 2g of shroom powder, and slammed it like a shot. It took about 10 minutes for me to start feeling the effects. 30 minutes in and I was full blown level 5 and higher than I had ever been. My thoughts were coming so fast at this point that I could barely keep up. The bad part was, well basically, I kept getting higher and higher. I could literally feel all the effects continuing to increase at an alarming rate. I actually lost motor control of my limbs and was stuck writhing on the floor stuck in the adventure I created for myself lol. My thoughts eventually were going so fast that I broke down and basically mumbled "Help" and "Please Stop" for what turned out to be 3 hours. Then INCREDIBLY lol, within a 5 minute period my thoughts totally went back to normal. I mean i was not even tripping at all anymore, but I was in a tremendous amount of shock. I stood up and walked to the clock to find that it wasnt even 4 hrs from when I drank it. I think this could be THE way to do shrooms, as it seems to magnify the effects to literally a factor of 10, but it seems extremely dangerous also. I would like to experiment with it more with some smaller doses, but frankly, I don't feel like tripping for quite a while after last night. So if anyone wants to try it in a responsible setting, and takes EXTREME CAUTION, and will contribute some research to this discovery, it would be appreciated. Since what is happening here is not fully understood, please be CAREFUL. I am not joking. Please, constructive replies only. This could be the beginning to a new world of psychedelics.

Quote: MOD EDIT: The procedure has been tested several times in different varieties now and seems to indeed cause *strong* potentiation in some cases, 1.5-5x stronger effects being mentioned. If you are an experienced tripper, please take part in this experiment and report in this thread. Things to report are: . # What liquid are you using? . # How much liquid did you drink the powder with? (oz) . # Time to "first alert" (aka, "whoa, something's definitely going to happen") . # Time to onset of visual disturbance . # Time to peak (rough estimate) . # Time to first sign of diminishing effects . # Time to baseline (indiscernable effects)

Please also note if you take any other substances, specifically marijuana and whether or not your stomach is empty- This could pose a significant confound. [snyder] . Please be warned that although there seems no reason for bodily concern you might end up tripping much harder than you ever did on a similar amount. If you want to take part in this experiment make sure to note all variables that you feel might be important. Theory is less important than systematic observations and independent verification at this point.

OneMoreRobot3021Moderator (Crankeyweed) 26/09/05 10:25 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Fascinating!

MrKrinkle (Stranger) 26/09/05 10:57 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... i think im going to try that. It sounds interesting trippibri (mycodiva in training) 26/09/05 11:00 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... sounds like something i'd like to try! i'll keep my eye on this thread. deficitism (woo woo) 26/09/05 11:06 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Friday it is!

Limelight (Intrepid Traveler) 26/09/05 11:19 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Try mixing it with battery acid next time

Seriously though, that's a crazy intense experiemnt. Good job on finding that out

Limelight (Intrepid Traveler) 26/09/05 11:20 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Perhaps this is why orange juice intensifies effects..? Maybe it's not the vitamin c or whatever, but the acidity.

Shnezbit (Psycho-naught) 26/09/05 11:24 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... interesting. be sure and report back, whatever the outcome.

Muppetz (Stranger) 26/09/05 11:25 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Think I will try the cranberry juice nextime, just a 1/16th though. Something small to start. rod (lighting) 26/09/05 11:28 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

I,ve been chopping mine up and adding to juice for a long time, I,m going to get some pompom cranbury juice for my next time I think iateshaggy (i am a figment of my own imagination) 26/09/05 11:32 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... dambit, why do people come up with this shit after my days off.

ShroomArtist84 () 26/09/05 11:37 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... very very nice. i will defiently try in the near future. favorite this one danoEoboy (Extra-Terrestrial Hunter) 26/09/05 11:44 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...f737f989815e16e

Hey thats an improvement on my idea, not tried it tho! snyder (Convergent Phenomena) 26/09/05 11:56 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Your description of the subjective effects sounds very strong, but I'd like to point something out:

When you take the mushrooms by eating them, they go into your stomach. A vanishingly small amount of the material is absorbed in your esophagus and only a little in your mouth. As it enters your stomach, it is submerged in ~1 pH gastric acid. Lemon juice has a pH of ~2.3, over 10 times weaker than the gastric acid. I bet if you did a randomized sample you would find that the determining factors in 'potency' are:

1. amount of psilocybin & psilocin in the sample (principal factor) 2. how finely the mushrooms are ground (affecting speed of absorption and thus distribution of intensity of the effects) 3. how much liquid is consumed with the sample (affecting speed of absorption and thus distribution of intensity of the effects)

StickyWater (*is baked*) 27/09/05 12:19 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Was the second test you did using mushrooms from the same batch? If not then the lemon juice may not have anything to do with it, it could have been merely very potent shrooms.

Underhillmaster (Mycology Enthusiast) 27/09/05 12:34 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

The shrooms were the same strain, but the not the same batch. Grown on rye spawned to poo by myself, the grow method was the same on both batches. I have taken shrooms over 100 times in my life over the course of almost 20 years, and I have never experienced anything remotely like this. It was very humbling. I am not sure what is exactly going on with it, but I know something is happening. If you try it once, please put in a reply relating the experience. But please be careful, because I don't really know how to explain how much more intense it was than any other trip I have ever had. I expected a stronger than normal trip, and I was totally unprepared for how strong it actually was. It may be something you have to do to believe lol.

Konnrade (T. Pachanoi Fanboi) 27/09/05 12:36 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Sure, stomach acid is strong, but it only starts to work after the substrate gets to it. AND if the substrate is coming directly from the mouth, instead of soaking up all the acid it's allready saturated with saliva, which slows the process a little as the acid has to diffuse into the saliva present in the substrate. if you immerse a powder of cubes in cranberry juice, the dry shroom dust absorbs something that is acidic. Meaning it is begun to be digested prior to ingestion and is allready saturated with acid. Also, I've not known people to be able to choke down a dry powder of shrooms, but if they did the mere surface area would help. The cranberry juice at the least would make it a lot easier to slam down, and cranberry juice is a potent flavor, so it would help make it less unpleasant.

Mighty Bop (Big Boy) 27/09/05 12:49 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

It seems like any kind of acid would hinder the effects of shrooms. Don't acids break down/destroy things (ie. psilocybin/psilocin)? I still drink OJ with my shrooms however. At first I did it because I heard it intensifies the effects. But since then, I never came across any info that proves this is the case, but I still drink OJ because it masks the taste

Tyrone_C (Stranger) 27/09/05 12:50 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Sounds really interesting! I don't think I'm quite ready to try that yet as I am inexperienced, but I'll keep it in mind for later. Thanks!

XUL (Xul the unclean) 27/09/05 01:37 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

That really makes me think you know. Your right, this could change how we eat shroomz. Hell with enough research, etc.. you could create a pill filled with a high acid and shroom powder that you swollow and sends you twirling on a hard trip.

Lysergic_Milkman (Delivering to you daily!) 27/09/05 01:49 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Prime discovery; 5 shrooms for you!

If the acidity helps break down/digest the shrooms, then why not leave the powder in the lemon juice for a while and stir it up good before shooting it? This would [supposedly) make a complete solution. If i get some cubes from the field tomorrow (and i probably will) then you can expect that i'll elaborate on this theory very soon.

Underhillmaster (Mycology Enthusiast) 27/09/05 01:57 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

I don't know about a pill, but the juice from 2 lemons and a lime was barely over an ounce of fluid. I have a huge aversion to the taste and smell of shrooms from doing them so many times over the years, and this way was hard to beat. It was no worse than taking a single shot of whiskey. And it was so potent that I realized I had done a bad thing probably, and should have tried it with a single gram. I can't express how much stronger it is, I can only hope that some more people try it responsibly, and can relate their experiences. stemmer (Stranger) 27/09/05 02:11 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Id love to hear about other peoples experiments with the cranberry or lemon lime combos. I wouldnt be surprized if it works that well for other people. I wonder sometimes with recommendations like these if the shroomer isnt just becoming more capable of understandind and seeing the drugs full effects on low-mid doses naturaly. Im shure this concoctions effects are true to some extent. Id be very interested to hear more about it. Maybee do a control experiment and try one of those 1-2 gram doses without useing the lemon/lime method, to find out the degree to which you are really being effected by just the shrooms themselves. I find that the more body and mind learns about the mushrooms full spectrum of effects, the harder we trip the next time.

WillieTomg (...is hated by everyone (for some reason.)) 27/09/05 03:19 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Quote: Mighty Bop said: It seems like any kind of acid would hinder the effects of shrooms. Don't acids break down/destroy things (ie. psilocybin/psilocin)? I still drink OJ with my shrooms however. At first I did it because I heard it intensifies the effects. But since then, I never came across any info that proves this is the case, but I still drink OJ because it masks the taste

This is why I'm going to have to chalk this one up to placebo effect. There's just no scientific reason why ANY juice would increase effects at all. I'd test this a few times.

HeavyToilet (The Heaviest Of Them All) 27/09/05 03:22 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Fuck I wish I had some mushrooms right now. badchad (Stranger) 27/09/05 03:23 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Interesting report.

However, how does one account for the fact that the amount of psilocybin/psilocyin ingested should be the same?

Even if it were absorbed faster one would think that the maximal amount of psilocin in the blood stream ("peak plasma level") wouldn't differ very much (due to the fact that the metabolism of the drug now becomes the slowest or rate limiting step).

StickyWater (*is baked*) 27/09/05 03:27 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Would the acid in the cranberry juice not be simply acting as a catalyst speeding up the rate at which the psilocybin is absorbed into the bloodstream? How long did your trip last? Did you notice any difference in length between cranberry juice and lemon juice?

Sorry if I missed those details in your original post, but I'm tempted to think that you merely found a way to get an all at once rush from your mushies, rather than the steady climb people usualy experience...

I guess it's lke the Aquavite of mushrooms (drink it a little too fast and you'll see what I'm talking about)

Lysergic_Milkman (Delivering to you daily!) 27/09/05 03:55 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Catalyst! that's it! Thank's for the idea, StickyWater. If other acidic drinks don't do it, then maybe it's an enzyme specific to cranberries (and/or lemon & lime) that speeds up the process, not the acidity. This (and the saliva theory) would explain why stomach acids don't speed the process. I think we're on to something...

StickyWater (*is baked*) 27/09/05 04:13 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Perhaps try this with vinegar, see if the same effects are achieved?

Anyone willing to down a shot of vinegar and shrooms in the name of science

Lysergic_Milkman (Delivering to you daily!) 27/09/05 04:22 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Not me! But that's a great idea for a control test. Since vinegar doesn't contain any enzymes (naturally), then that could prove or disprove the acidity theory.

StickyWater (*is baked*) 27/09/05 04:25 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Well, I'd do it but you'll have to wait about a year (I have no plans to trip anytime soon). But if the question is still remains, I'll go for it.

Underhillmaster (Mycology Enthusiast) 27/09/05 04:31 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

I mentioned in the original post, but the entire trip was over in under 4hrs. This was a 2+gram dose. The same size dose on cranberry of same strain would usually last about 6 hours with with a peak at about 4 hrs in. It also only takes about 10-15 minutes to start hitting with cranberry. The same 2+ gram dose just eaten usually lasts over 8hrs from ingestion, but takes an hr to hit sometimes. This is just my personal experience. My original cranberry thread is down below, and some of those people were able to verify that it seems to be stronger than eating/capsules/drinking with juice/chocolates. I think I could handle an ounce of vinegar lol, but I don't feel like tripping too soon after last nite. You won't honestly understand how crazy it is until you try it. Maybe after this following weekend someone will have tried and have an experience to share.

PIPBoy2000 (Stranger) 27/09/05 04:47 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

A friend of mine brought this thread and forum to my attention and just wanted to share my experiences. I have tried the said method with grapefruit juice many times using 1+ grams at a time never exceding 1.5. The trip that this produced is so intense it seems like it lasts a normal 8-10 hours but only lasts like 3-4. I have also notice that if i packed a bong right after I slammed the shot of grapefruit juice it was too intense almost, but the most relaxed and entertained I've ever been in my life. I suggest everyone give this way of tripping a try, very enlightening. You have to try it to understand where we are coming from. snyder (Convergent Phenomena) 27/09/05 04:48 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Quote: Konnrade said: if you immerse a powder of cubes in cranberry juice, the dry shroom dust absorbs something that is acidic. Meaning it is begun to be digested prior to ingestion and is allready saturated with acid. Also, I've not known people to be able to choke down a dry powder of shrooms, but if they did the mere surface area would help. The cranberry juice at the least would make it a lot easier to slam down, and cranberry juice is a potent flavor, so it would help make it less unpleasant.

I hear what you're saying, that the time in the juice allows more activity to free the alkaloids in the mushrooms, but cranberry juice only has a pH of about 3.5, making it about 500 times less acidic than gastric acid. I predict that if the mushrooms were taken with H2O there would be no effect in blood levels of psilocin- only way to find out? Some sort of controlled experimental atmosphere, which we can't have in the US. Unless you all would like to donate a gas chromatograph and some human subjects to test on!

Lysergic_Milkman (Delivering to you daily!) 27/09/05 04:53 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Quote: snyder said: Unless you all would like to donate a gas chromatograph...

Sorry, I don't have $800 to throw around on experiments.

StickyWater (*is baked*) 27/09/05 04:54 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Quote: I predict that if the mushrooms were taken with H2O there would be no effect in blood levels of psilocin

Would this not be simply making tea?

Perhaps try dissolving an antacid into the cranberry juice next time to help neutralize the acidity and see if it makes a difference? snyder (Convergent Phenomena) 27/09/05 05:12 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Do people typically finely powder the mushrooms when making tea?

I think the important factor here is the powdering, not the juice. But, I would definitely rather swallow mush mush in cranberry juice rather than in H2O.

StickyWater (*is baked*) 27/09/05 05:21 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

I've eaten finely powdered shrooms before, I didn't notice anything out different enough for me to suggest that powdering the shrooms made much of, if any difference... On a somewhat unrelated note, powdered shrooms is quite possibly the most disgusting feeling/flavour combination I've ever put in my mouth, and I generaly don't mind the taste of shrooms...

Limelight (Intrepid Traveler) 27/09/05 05:38 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... i believe vinegar is less acidic than lemon juice, so i dont think would be worht it to take a shot of that..

StickyWater (*is baked*) 27/09/05 05:44 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Hmmm, how acidic is it in comparison to cranberry juice then? kake (DO NOT FEED) 27/09/05 05:45 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Snyder has made some good points.

The most important factor, I think as well, is the powdering. We're not talking about potency increases here people, so don't be confused. The phenomenon is a faster, more intense onset and a shorter duration.

A friend and I are going to try this tomorrow night and I will post back on the results. Here's what we plan on using:

2.5g standard cubes (my most typical dose so I'll be able to determine relative differences) 10oz. cranberry juice 2oz. lemon/lime juice

I will powder them and let them soak in the juice while stirring vigorously for 5 minutes, then I'll gulp it all down as fast as possible. This will be on an empty stomach. Expect results to be posted on Wednesday. Any good vibes for an expectedly intense ride would be much appreciated

Limelight (Intrepid Traveler) 27/09/05 05:48 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... cranberry juice and vinegar, prolly 3, lemon juice 2 snyder (Convergent Phenomena) 27/09/05 06:05 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Thanks

If you want to make this psuedo-scientific, could you please also record the time you last ate (and roughly how much) and could you abstain from drinking any liquids for 30 minutes to 1 hour before trying it? If we could get a bunch of people to try the same method we could have at least a body of normalized subjective experiences to draw from, rather than a single or scattered group with no constant procedure.

Heh, and of course, have fun. yourenoturkhakis (Introspective Imagineer) 27/09/05 06:14 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Hi all. New here. i plan on trying this out. I'm going to do a 2 gram trip (powdered in water) on an empty stomach this weekend, and then a 2 gram trip (powdered with juice) the following weekend. I'll let everyone know the results

StickyWater (*is baked*) 27/09/05 06:21 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

May I suggest that since this is a dose you are comfortable with and used to taking that you try the experiment but without the cranberry/lemon juice in order to test your idea that it's the powdering of the shrooms that's making the difference, from the information we've been given it's safe to say that taking cranberry or lemon juice does seem to be having an effect, or do you plan to trip again and are only using this trip as a way to get an idea of what the experience is like as to allow fore more accurate judgement in the intensity of the trip by comparison when consumed in different methods?

P.S. Good luck on your trip, just don't get your hopes up or else you'll just be setting yourself up for a disappointment, at the same time, don't get caught off guard.Have fun, enjoy, and I think I can speak for a lot of us when I say that I can't wait to hear how it goes.

Konnrade (T. Pachanoi Fanboi) 27/09/05 06:31 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

It makes me all warm and tingly to see people so actively tossing themselves into being a part of the scientific method. The nerd in me is pleased.

However, please do take good solid precautions in the case that it does cause a major change in absorption, none of us want you to be caught off- guard and have some hell of a wild ride on a bad trip. Also, warn people and have a sitter, since goodness knows if you hit lv5 and someone who doesnt know what's going on sees you writhing on the ground or some such... you may wake up hospitalized when they call 911.

Underhillmaster (Mycology Enthusiast) 27/09/05 06:51 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Yes, plz be careful. It was way more than I expected it to be. It was a wildy intense inner journey due to the fact that it affected my motor functions and I had to just lie there lol. It had it's scary moments actually. Try not to exceed 2+ grams if you use the lemon/lime method. I have taken a 10gram dose before by eating them, and this was incomparably more intense. The saving grace if it does start to get out of control, is that it should be over in roughly 4hrs. You really do have to experience it to understand what it's like, but be responsible hehe. chaospilot (Stranger) 27/09/05 06:53 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... good luck, good vibes headin your way stemmer (Stranger) 27/09/05 07:05 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

ALot more acidic, but it doesnt cleans the body the same way cran-juice does. kake (DO NOT FEED) 27/09/05 07:08 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

...lots of considerations in high order...especially staying hydrated, i'm used to drinking a couple bottles of water within the first 2 hours of tripping, so i will take this into account when hydrating myself throughout the day. we've been planning tomorrow night for well over a week, so rest assured. it will be fairly controlled and documented as unobtrusively thorough as possible. as for powdering with water instead of juice, i believe the result would be similar to a tea mix, which to my knowledge has been said to sometimes increase the onset time as well. thanks for the words.

StickyWater (*is baked*) 27/09/05 07:26 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Hmmmm, so I don't quite understand what you were saying then about the powdering of the mushrooms being what increases the effects if you're saying washing it down with water would be like a tea mix, wouldn't that more or less right there say that it's not the powdering if using water wouldn't work, or am I missing something here.

Again though, while the increased surface are you'd get by powdering your shrooms would have an effect in the rate of absorbtion, I'm still leaning more towards the acid speeding up the rate of absorbtion into the blood (as well as the surface area) resulting in one massive "lump" (so to speak) of psilocybin entering your blood stream in a fairly short amount of time and being used up normaly, which would (at least the way I see it) create the results we've seen.

Who knows, all will hopefuly be revealed in time, this conversation has really (temporarily?) re-sparked my dessire to shroom, though for completely different reasons, whether or not I'll act on this dessire I have yet to decide.

Quote: It makes me all warm and tingly to see people so actively tossing themselves into being a part of the scientific method. The nerd in me is pleased.

Whether you're a nerd or not, you still can't deny the fact that science is interesting to (at least) some degree, I can tell that I'm not going to be getting much sleep tonight... Also like to add that that quote reminded me of a sweater I have...

"Without geometry life is pointless *(?,?)" snyder (Convergent Phenomena) 27/09/05 07:28 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Things to record for those trying this experiment:

# What liquid are you using?

# How much liquid did you drink the powder with? (oz)

# Time to "first alert" (aka, "whoa, something's definitely going to happen")

# Time to onset of visual disturbance

# Time to peak (rough estimate)

# Time to first sign of diminishing effects

# Time to baseline (indiscernable effects)

Please also note if you take any other substances, specifically marijuana- This could pose a significant confound. hot48yearolds (Connoisseur of Hallucination) 27/09/05 07:30 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

With this kind of knoledge we can all save a lot more mushrooms. Im guessing that all i would need is 3 or 4 caps, a lemon, and a bong. wow snyder (Convergent Phenomena) 27/09/05 07:33 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Quote: StickyWater said: I'm still leaning more towards the acid speeding up the rate of absorbtion into the blood

Remember, your stomach is filled with pH ~1 gastric acids, that are about 500 times stronger than cranberry juice. Drinking a few ounces of cranberry juice or water should not significantly affect the overall acidity in your stomach. weathereporter88 (Thee Band) 27/09/05 08:06 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

How long did you let the powder settle in the juice? How fine was the powder? I could care less about the science and rationale of this, I just want to read some trip reports! adjust (beyond mana) 27/09/05 08:56 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Quote: snyder said: Things to record for those trying this experiment:

# What liquid are you using?

# How much liquid did you drink the powder with? (oz)

# Time to "first alert" (aka, "whoa, something's definitely going to happen")

# Time to onset of visual disturbance

# Time to peak (rough estimate)

# Time to first sign of diminishing effects

# Time to baseline (indiscernable effects)

Please also note if you take any other substances, specifically marijuana- This could pose a significant confound.

Hmm this is interesting for several reasons.

I am a fairly experienced tripper (usually every 1 to 3 months) and with the exception of my first trip, have ALWAYS eaten shrooms ground up. The way I usually do it is I blend up fresh mushrooms with concentrated orange juice, then down it like a shot.

I also usually use the same dosage, measured on a gram scale accurate to 0.1 grams +/1 0.3 grams.

So basically what I'm saying is I usually do the same amount every time using the same method (which is highly blended, ie extrememly fine particle size).

I don't think I could down an ounce of vinigar. Sorry ppl I just can't do it. On the other hand, I may be able to take the shrooms with lemon or lime juice.

This would probably be the closest to a controlled experiment we could get, since most people don't end up blending every single time like I do. I could take down the info that snyder has written and give a qualitative report on how much stonger the trip was. Think this is a good idea? daimyo (Uncle Dirtnap) 27/09/05 08:59 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Yes. On with it Then try with cranberry juice. Then try with no juice, just powder. ajna (Hunter) 27/09/05 12:32 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... in my experience, when dosing with a strong orange juice (haven't tried cranberry or lemon yet) the effects are exactly how you describe - comes on much harder and faster, and finishes just as abruptly. i had put it down as an effect of the acidity in my own musings. my girlfriend has also shot to probably a level 4 trip in about 10 mins, before she could even finish her glass of OJ/2g shrooms. she was not quite ready for it and found the first hour way too intense, and then felt completely sober 2 hours later.

StickyWater (*is baked*) 27/09/05 02:04 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Quote: snyder said:

Quote: StickyWater said: I'm still leaning more towards the acid speeding up the rate of absorbtion into the blood

Agreed, and I've taken that into account, but would it not be possible that the acid in the cranberry juice would not at least very least assist the process of digestion? Hmmm, but yes, now that I think about it more (and I'm not quite soo sleep deprived this time) I can deffinitely understand why it could be more the powdering of the shrooms than anything, but then the question would be why didn't anything like that happen when I had powdered them up and eaten them?

Lysergic_Milkman (Delivering to you daily!) 27/09/05 03:39 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

I do powdered shrooms frequently. You'd be suprised at how little affect this has on absorbtion. The powdering of the material is not significant. If anything, i have found that powdered shrooms are quite a bit weaker than whole shrooms because the active chemicals are allowed to deteriorate rapidly. mecreateme (YoUisMEEMsiUoY) 27/09/05 05:10 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

IME yes it is significant. I have had mushrooms take over an hour to hit hard when ingested almost whole. Quote: i have found that powdered shrooms are quite a bit weaker than whole shrooms because the active chemicals are allowed to deteriorate rapidly.

Ever done a test between, whole shrooms, ground shrooms, and heat made tea? Oh wait, it is impossible. Every trip is different, you can only take one dose at a time. You may be more susceptible or a whole slew of other factors. Just because you see cause and effect does not mean one causes the other. snyder (Convergent Phenomena) 27/09/05 06:04 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Quote: mecreateme said: Ever done a test between, whole shrooms, ground shrooms, and heat made tea? Oh wait, it is impossible. Every trip is different, you can only take one dose at a time. You may be more susceptible or a whole slew of other factors. Just because you see cause and effect does not mean one causes the other.

That's why we should try to get as many reports as possible. If we can identify a general trend, we can make a statement about that trend. It doesn't mean that we have proven causality, just that we have noticed a corrolation between factors and effects. mcchieftan (Stranger) 27/09/05 06:25 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Try doing LSD or mushrooms at a psytrance rave with UV decoration, lasers and the like ...I went to freedom festival in portugal this year (decoration was http://www.tribeoffrog.co.uk) but I don't think the pictures are up yet).

UV at nighttime tends to slightly trail in your eye anyway but on acid...... It was the first trip I've experienced where I can only rarely make out the real world for most of the duration because theres so damn much insane psychedelia rushing through my vision.. then you try relying on your hearing but sounds are all coming from opposite directions or from above or below..I've tripped many times and I've always remained in this base reality, as far as I am aware but for me live music, the outdoors and lots of flashly lights and lasers make a trip that much more potent (if that is what you are looking for...) mecreateme (YoUisMEEMsiUoY) 27/09/05 06:48 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

What I am saying is there are just way too many factors to determine this trend. Way too many!

Set Setting Experience Quality of material(amount of alkaloids) Different trip Diet Fasting

All of these can change a trip.

People so often talk about how they tripped this way when they did an eighth and this way when they did two grams or however you wanna put it. My qualm is that you cannot compare two trips. There are just too many variables. I am all for this kind of experiment, it just seems that it cannot be done truly scientifically. snyder (Convergent Phenomena) 27/09/05 07:02 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Yes, there are many factors. We understand we can't control the universe to get identical trials. What we can do is get people to give their subjective impressions on how fast and how intense the experience was. If our results show no obvious trend, then that's what happens. I'll leave it up to individuals to draw conclusions from the data we collect. snyder (Convergent Phenomena) 27/09/05 07:12 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Yeah, I've been going to psytrance events since 2001 here in North America. I've partied coast to coast in the states and up in good old Canada. Using hallucinogens there is always fun, but hard to transition to a spiritual experience, IME.

CeeThruMeer (Smiling Internally) 27/09/05 08:13 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Would it work to shave or grate chocolate into cranberry juice... or is there no point in that? mecreateme (YoUisMEEMsiUoY) 27/09/05 08:27 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Quote: We understand we can't control the universe to get identical trials.

Speak for yourself, not the board. I was trying to instill the above sentence into this discussion. You restated it well, if even in a matter-of-fact-you-fool, style. kake (DO NOT FEED) 27/09/05 10:00 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Another point to clear up some confusion...

I think what we're focusing on here is the ability of the juice to assist in absorption rate by pre-mixing with the juice. I think eating the shrooms then drinking the juice would have only a little effect since the pH in your stomach is much more acidic (and since this is my normal method and while not powdered, I eat fine bits and wash it down with juice, still takes about 1/2hr+ to feel.

There are lots of other questions we could raise also. Perhaps saliva inhibits absorption...perhaps it is merely powder form that increases absorption, or perhaps it is more of a catalyst effect, where the stomach begins operating in a fashion almost entirely in tune with digesting the acidic juice and as some side-effect it absorbs psilocybin faster.

I think we need some of our friendly biologists to offer some expertise in the digestive process, for instance, does the stomach operate in different ways depending on what its served and could this be an effect?

T-minus 6 hours

Underhillmaster (Mycology Enthusiast) 27/09/05 11:04 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Lots of interesting replies so far. At this point I am just waiting for someone to try lemon/lime juice with powdered shrooms. The lemon/lime is the new variable that I would like someone to try. Finely powdered shrooms put in the juice of a couple lemons, let sit 5mins or less, then shoot it. I have limited information already about cranberry from myself, friends, and few forum replies. I know there is no way to quantify the effects, but lemon/lime easily seemed many many times more powerful than even the cranberry method. My prediction is that any person who actually does the lemon/lime method will literally have a borderline freakout trip lol. And possibly we can get to a point where everyone who tries it this way will agree that something special is going on with this combination. the_psychonaut (psychonaut) 27/09/05 11:54 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... in my experience with powdering the shrooms up, my trip is usually a much faster come up, much stronger peak, but also about 2 hours shorter in duration. i always pop a vitamin c pill before my trips(even if its just placebo) it works for me chaospilot (Stranger) 28/09/05 01:26 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... i think someone should try it with lemon or lime juice, and then with cranberry. Maybe there is an enzyme in the cranberries that help out with making the trip stronger?

P.S. I know its been said like 100,000,000 times before nonphixion (Stranger) 28/09/05 07:04 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Eight pages and no ones tried it yet?

This is mushroom cultivation site... I'm surprised more people don't have some mushies to spare mcchieftan (Stranger) 28/09/05 08:07 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

There ain't a chance of there being any enzymes in the juice unless its fresh and even then its unlikely: They pasteurise fruit juices just like milk.

Ramuh (Finder of the subbs) 28/09/05 08:51 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Quote: kake said: Snyder has made some good points.

A friend and I are going to try this tomorrow night and I will post back on the results. Here's what we plan on using:

2.5g standard cubes (my most typical dose so I'll be able to determine relative differences) 10oz. cranberry juice 2oz. lemon/lime juice

According to that it HAS been tried, we're just waiting for the info to come back hehe. Which BTW I can't wait to hear. How did it go man? scatmanrav (Brainy Smurf) 28/09/05 10:45 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

The absorbic acid stops the water from turning blue..but the biggest effect is the sublingual ingestion. Shew mushrooms up and hold them in your mouth and you get a quicker come on, same if you drink it in tea. Of course its not like eating them..works great and thats why I love the tea method..its not just for the taste. adjust (beyond mana) 28/09/05 10:57 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... *DELETED*

Post deleted by adjust

Reason for deletion: wrong info

Pyjamas () 29/09/05 12:26 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Wikipedia - Psilocin (What our body turns the Psilocybin into) is obtained by dephosphorylation of psilocybin under strongly acidic or alkaline conditions. Psilocin is relatively unstable due to its phenolic OH group. Under alkaline conditions in the presence of oxygen it immediately forms bluish and dark black degradation products. Similar products are also formed under acidic conditions in the presence of oxygen and Fe3+ ions (Keller's reagent, FeCl3 / MeOH / HCl). Psilocin is a basic amine and forms salts with acids that are usually more stable upon storage.

The more acidity the quicker the Psilocybin is broken down to Psilocin.

Must experiment with this! guri (Master of the improbablity drive) 29/09/05 04:51 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... just a thought, but from what i gather most people would agree that when you powder your shrooms they will kick in due to an increased surface area that can be worked on in your stomache. now if the cranberry juice and lemon juice is extracting the active ingrediants, but not nessacerily all of them, that means that when the juice and powdered shrooms arrive in your stomache, the surface area to work with has been dramaticly increased. because not only do you have the powder to work on, but as well as all the liquid that contains the psilocybin that was absorbed while still in the cup. kake (DO NOT FEED) 29/09/05 06:02 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

# What liquid are you using? 10oz. cranberry 1oz lemon juice 1oz lime juice

# How much liquid did you drink the powder with? 12 oz with 2.5g freshly ground cubensis @ 7:17pm(t).

# Time to "first alert" (aka, "whoa, something's definitely going to happen") 7:31pm (t+14 minutes)

# Time to onset of visual disturbance 7:40pm (t+23 minutes)

# Time to peak (rough estimate) 8:35pm (t+78 minutes)

# Time to first sign of diminishing effects 10:28pm (first calming effect felt t+191 minutes)

# Time to baseline (indiscernable effects) 12:45pm peak came on noticeably faster than most trips, ride up felt very intense and the "buzz" was energetic and very laughy and fun but tiresome as well. we chilled in my living room listening to music and talking until after the peak, at which point we spent the rest of the trip on the back deck enjoying a nice night and stargazing. will provide some more details later, but i'm going to bed right now robmac9090 (typical tadpole) 29/09/05 06:06 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... interesting report kake...

Do you normally grind up your shrooms before ingesting them?

Underhillmaster (Mycology Enthusiast) 29/09/05 07:09 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Pyjamas had some good comments. I am starting to think the acidity is the key. After giving it some thought after my trip, I realized that everytime I have ever used the cranberry method, I used cranberry juice cocktail. The highest concentration of cranberry juice I could find was 27% pure juice. I would think that would make cranberry juice cocktail less acidic than straight cranberry juice. The lemon/lime I used this past weekend was fresh squeezed pure juice. It was less than 2 fl. ounces of lemon/lime juice, so I am thinking that it is something to do with the acidity much more than surface area. Thanks for trying what you did kake, can't wait to see more details. I am also waiting for someone to try pure lemon/lime juice still.

Crestfallen (some kinda somethin') 29/09/05 07:20 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Okay... *raises hand*

I'll give the lemon/lime juice thing a try, probably this weekend.

It will be 2g. or very close, taken like a shot w/ roughly 1 oz. of lemon/lime juice. (mostly lemon)

I know how 2g. will generally treat me. any other suggestions?

Underhillmaster (Mycology Enthusiast) 29/09/05 07:50 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Sounds good. 2 lemons and 1 lime is what I used. Powder your shrooms as best you can and and combine with juice, and drink within 5 mins. Try to notice any differences from when you normally do 2g. It should hit you faster, harder, and be over quicker than normal. If lemon/lime ends up being the 'secret' ingredient I believe it to be, it should be a memorable experience. Can't wait for more details. snyder (Convergent Phenomena) 29/09/05 12:54 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... in my dream last night,

6.0 g cubensis ecuador, shared between two others and myself

# What liquid are you using? 6oz cranberry, 100% juice from concentrate

# How much liquid did you drink the powder with? 6 oz with 2.0g ground cubensis @ 12:15am(t). # Time to "first alert" (aka, "whoa, something's definitely going to happen") 12:35am (t+20 minutes)

# Time to onset of visual disturbance 12:55am (t+40 minutes)

# Time to peak (rough estimate) 1:35am (t+80 minutes)

# Time to first sign of diminishing effects 3:45am (~t+210 minutes. rough estimate, went back up and down)

# Time to baseline (indiscernable effects) 6:15am (t+360 minutes) very pretty sunrise. awwwwwwwsome sex with partner. i love these goddamn mushrooms. yousuck () 29/09/05 08:55 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

To the thread starter:

As common sense eludes, what you had experienced was a rapid absorbtion of the mushroom matter. While powdering the substance contributes to this, it is not a matter of acidity as others have pointed out. It is in fact a matter of the sugars contained within the juice allow for rapid absorbtion, because what other chemical can you digest faster than a simple sugar?

I do believe however, that this method only works (as far as your ancedotal evidence eludes) because the sugars you are ingesting are water based. Ive taken 5g's of shrooms in milkshakes before, and these effects have never happened because of the time it takes to digest dairy products.

Perhaps a more proper control would to mix your powdered mushrooms in sugar water and observe the effects. It would be nice though if someone here would report the results of all the experiments they are intending to do.

Underhillmaster (Mycology Enthusiast) 29/09/05 11:16 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Hmm, I have drank my powder with Dr. Pepper before. I would think that Dr. Pepper has much more sugar than any fruit juice. I could be wrong tho. Dr. Pepper gave me just a normal type trip. I came up with the lemon/lime idea based on acidity being the possible reason for the more intense shorter trips. Upon actually doing lemon/lime, I was literally amazed at the effects. I plan to try a single gram with the lemon/lime method sometime after my next pick. I will try sugar water in a month or two. Once someone tries lemon/lime and relates their experience, I may change my line of thinking.

QbanMoJo (Psychonaut) 30/09/05 12:46 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Most protein shakes have sugars that are simple to digest so that when you drink it, it goes into your blood faster, ideal for post workouts. Only thing is that a lot of peeps on here eat shrooms dipped in honey, covered in chocolate, etc, and get the same intensity. What type of sugars would a lemon/lime posses that honey doesn't? yousuck () 30/09/05 06:48 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Dr pepper isnt a simple sugar like table sugar is, its a syrup, not the same thing. Do you honestly think your body absorbs Dr pepper as quick and efficiently as it does fruit juice? well, whatevers happening, the psilocin molecule is attaching itself to something in the fruit juice, instead of just floating around like it would in most other substances. richardcypher101 (Mycophagous) 30/09/05 06:50 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Hm, I wonder what would happen if you took 2g with a tbsp of...Creatine....

QbanMoJo (Psychonaut) 30/09/05 08:04 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Quote: richardcypher101 said: Hm, I wonder what would happen if you took 2g with a tbsp of...Creatine....

nothing. unless you put fruit juice in there which would defeat the purpose for the creatine. Could make you think youre superman when you start tripping though. Underhillmaster (Mycology Enthusiast) 30/09/05 08:41 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

I have admitted I don't know what is going on. I have consumed my powdered shrooms with a variety of different liquids over the years however. After reading about the effect of cranberry juice used for extraction techniques, me and friends came upon the cranberry method. A much stronger experience than liquid ever used to that point(dr. pepper, milkshake, water, orange juice, apple juice, grapefruit juice, and shroom tea). After some replies to another post I made, and some discussion with friends, we all believed that the acidity of cranberry juice combined with the powder, before you consume, was having some added effect. Following that logic, we discovered that lemon and lime juice was much more acidic and should theoretically have even more increased effects. After trying it once, I sincerely believe it does. I think that the acidity is the major factor, but I am sure there is probably more than just that to what is going on. I discovered an interesting report that compares the pH and sugar contents of grapefruit, orange, lemon and limes. http://www.msu.edu/course/lbs/145/luckie/inquiriesF2003/ABCD.html

If simple sugars were the reason for this increased effect, I would think oranges would have the greatest effect. This is not what I experienced. Lemon/lime has a much more noticeable effect than orange juice. I hope that someone else tries it and can confirm or deny my findings. If it pans out to actually be something, we can try to pinpoint exactly what is going on and what is causing it. Which may lead the whole community to the ideal liquid to take your shrooms with.

QbanMoJo (Psychonaut) 30/09/05 09:17 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... it IS possible. the gastric acid in our stomach doesn't get absorbed by the blood right? maybe the lemon juice along with the psilocybin/psilocin is absorbed to the blood on the way down to the stomach. can anyone try eating the shrooms and then chasing it with the lemon juice/lemonade? like that if it takes less than 20mins to hit you then we can kinda say that the juice is extracting the chemicals and therefore entering your bloodstream faster.

Land_Crab (Neurotic Psychonaut) 30/09/05 10:26 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... Well it makes sense, to a certain extent. The acidity of the juice causes the psiloc(yb)in to be extracted into the juice more readily, and the psilocybin to be broken down into psilocin. So a certain quantity of the good stuff is already "pre-digested" by the time you drink it. Since the rest is powdered, and you take the dose all at once, it enters you bloodstream faster and in a higher concentration.

The first step of doing an acid/base extraction of, say, DMT, (remember that psiloc(yb)in is 4-HO-DMT), is to extract your powdered plant source into acidified water. This process is facilitated by agitation and heating. That's why you should always use a squirt of lemon/lime juice when making tea, (or shake up that cranberry juice well, and over a longer period of time).

This is the same conclusion I alluded to on another thread questioning the use of orange juice. kroum (Stranger) 30/09/05 12:00 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

*replying to original post*

Lol, I had to find that out the hard way. A few friends and I went on a camping trip to shroom, and we had powdered shrooms, this was my 2nd time shrooming, and the dealer said they were "aged" a year so I though they wouldn't be as potent. I took an 8th and a quarter of an 8th, mixed them with a water bottle full of OJ, shook them up vigorously for 2 minutes, and chugged it. It took LITERALLY 5 minutes for everything to start swimming. Half an hour later my ONLY wish in the world was to die, to escape the complete and total sensory overload. I even forgot I took mushrooms. I was more lost than I have ever been in my life. Right before I lost my ego, I knew I was going to die, and I kept asking my friends to help me, knowing that they couldn't do anything. Then I died. I was in an ego-less state for a while but I don't really remember it, and then I was reborn, I had to relearn how to live, how to exist from a singular perspective, how to live in my body, and then how to talk again. And like the original post said, the trip went from tripping really hard, to basically baseline over the course of 5-10 minutes. The whole trip took 4.5 hours.

Manninee (Psilence Is Golden) 30/09/05 12:24 PM

THE ANSWER

Hey guys, interesting debate, but you're all generally on the wrong track: The reason the effects are increased is due to chemicals in fruit juices called BIOFLAVINOIDS. These are commoner in acidic fruits. It was discovered back in the 90s that lots of folks using pharmaceuticals were complaining of interactions with grapefruit juice - effects of many drugs were enhanced, and in a few cases side effects were enhanced causing harm (eg - Terfenidine: an anti-allergy drug was withdrawn because of it). Now you can read up about it all on the net if you Google 'grapefruit drug interaction', or you can try the following link that explains how it works: http://www.agd.org/library/2005/july/Flanagan.pdf

You can buy bioflavinoid supplements in health/herb stores but you might want to be careful of any unwanted side effects with the mushies if using the concentrated stuff. Dose low with the shrooms and keep a note of any symptoms of heart palpitations, feeling faint, excessive sweating etc yousuck () 30/09/05 08:25 PM

Re: THE ANSWER

Quote: keep a note of any symptoms of heart palpitations, feeling faint, excessive sweating etc

i dont think ive ever had a trip where these effects werent present, and ive never used a fruit juice with shrooms before. Im not sure ill be all to willing to go out and try this method if its just going to increase these effects.

Manninee (Psilence Is Golden) 01/10/05 02:20 AM

Re: Side effects

The bioflavinoids might reduce side effects - who knows. The point is that people need to be careful and make sure that they arent gonna screw up their health by taking their experimenting too far into the unknown. So far as I know there are very few reports of serious physiologically harmful effects with 'psybes however they are taken... It would be better if there was a safer potentiator than the Harmala alkaloids (shroomahuasca!) that some have tried. deficitism (woo woo) 01/10/05 04:02 PM

Re: Side effects

2 grams PC Amazon with 1 cup of pure lemon juice # What liquid are you using? Pure lemon juice

# How much liquid did you drink the powder with? 1 Cup with 2 grams of amazon PC

# Time to "first alert" (aka, "whoa, something's definitely going to happen") 7:15PM(t+15 minutes)

# Time to onset of visual disturbance 7:40PM(t+40 minutes)

# Time to peak (rough estimate) 9:10PM (t+90 minutes)

# Time to first sign of diminishing effects 11:00PM(t+240 minutes)

# Time to baseline (indiscernable effects) 12:00am (t+360 minutes)

Conclusion: Yes it works! I have done magic mushrooms over 100 times and this was by far the most intense. The come on was fast, the peak was intense, the visuals were the most amazing I have ever seen!!! Everyone should give this a try. I will never eat veggies without lemon juice again!

HolydiverModerator () 01/10/05 05:50 PM

Re: Side effects

This is really interesting stuff, and it's awesome that some of you are trying it and giving a detailed report on your method and effects. Keep it up!

On a similar note, earlier this year some friends and I took 2 grams each of powdered cubes and ground them into a cup of orange juice. Having been grown on horse manure these were above average potency, but the effects of this particular trip exceeded most that I've ever been on, and it got me to seriously consider the vitamin thing all over again.

Most of us were still tripping 7-8 hours later, which is pretty remarkable. I have no idea what exactly this can be attributed to other than strong cubes and some effect the orange juice/acids had on them in powdered form, but cranberry juice is on my list of things to try next. I believe there is definitely a connection here, but finding out just what it is, is the next step.

Keep it up the good work, great thread. yousuck () 01/10/05 11:42 PM

Re: Side effects can someone answer a Q on this: are you supposed to make a tea using cranberry juice or just powder the mushrooms into the juice and drink the resulting slush? i can imagine that tasting very nasty.

Underhillmaster (Mycology Enthusiast) 02/10/05 12:23 AM

Re: Side effects

Just drink the slush. I pinched my nose shut when I drank mine hehe. Lemon/lime juice seems to be the best liquid to use so far. I'm glad someone else tried it and had similar experience. Keep up the experimentation, and if you haven't tried cranberry or lemon/lime, you should definitely give it a try. deficitism (woo woo) 02/10/05 04:45 PM

Re: Side effects

This works... I have a feeling if the powdered shrooms were soaked in lemon juice for a while (maybe 2-3 days) and then the mush discarded, we would have a nice sour psilocybin extraction liquid! You could probably store the mixture in a sealed airplane liquor bottle for 1 dose. I will do the honors of testing this for the sake of science. (I grew a bit much on my last batch.)

Feedback, thoughts, suggestions? deficitism (woo woo) 02/10/05 04:46 PM

Re: Side effects

PS : Lets keep this thread active for any updates anyone may have. yousuck () 02/10/05 07:33 PM

Re: Side effects

TRIP REPORT: took 3.5g's (grain cubes) powdered in cranberry juice. Now i have a naturally high tolerance, so taking 3.5 grams for me usually dont produce more than a slight body high, i usually have to take 10g's to get any decent effects.

The onset hit me within 20 minutes, the entire trip was intensely powerful, i dont think ive ever tripped that hard off of mushrooms without freaking out. It was pulling me into the mushroom world, which was strange because even when i take 10g's i have very weak visuals and mentals and i find it very hard to go into my head. The visuals were amazing, everything looked planar as if i were staring at one of those magic eye pictures. It go so intense that i had to sit up and regain control.

Yeah, cranberry juice is the real deal, and even better it masks the taste of powdered shrooms pretty well, and you dont have to eat as much. I dont think ill ever do shrooms without it. ------

More info on my last trip:

Onset T+ 20 minutes peak t+ 40 comedown t+2 hours base T+ 4 hours

I ate breakfast that morning, hadnt smoked weed for a few days and didnt smoke it that day, took it at 8pm lasted untill midnight. I drank the juice and the powder all at once without letting it sit, prob used about a cup or more of juice. I also had pretty intense nausea during the peak of the trip, and i felt like tired and mentally wasted the following day, but it was well worth it. deficitism (woo woo) 02/10/05 07:43 PM

Re: Side effects

Quote: yousuck said: TRIP REPORT:

took 3.5g's (grain cubes) powdered in cranberry juice. Now i have a naturally high tolerance, so taking 3.5 grams for me usually dont produce more than a slight body high, i usually have to take 10g's to get any decent effects.

Yeah, cranberry juice is the real deal, and even better it masks the taste of powdered shrooms pretty well, and you dont have to eat as much. I dont think ill ever do shrooms without it.

Beautiful!!!! This shit really works! Keep the reports coming.

I have 2 grams powdered right now soaking in a cup of pure lemon juice. I will let it sit in the juice until Wednesday. Then I will strain out the mushroom gunk. I will then soak the remaining mush in water for a day. Strain out the mush and discard the mushroom powder. I will then mix the water and lemon juice together to make psilocybin lemonade! I will let you know how it goes.

Underhillmaster (Mycology Enthusiast) 02/10/05 10:49 PM

Re: Side effects

I'm really glad people are trying cranberry and lemon/lime, it truly is a completely different experience. Many of my friends and now a few people in this forum have said this is the only way they will ever do shrooms again. I am going to try a single gram tonight with a lemon. From past experience, I can barely feel a gram when eating it. I am hoping for much more noticeable effect with the lemon juice. There are many benefits I can see from this discovery. You can use less shrooms for a similar effect, and save shrooms. You can take your normal doses for a magnified effect, and quite a bit more intense trip. It masks the taste extremely well. And if deficitism's idea works out, you could avoid the sludge which is the only sorta 'nasty' part of doing shrooms this way. I'll let you know how my single gram trip goes tomorrow. lechuck () 02/10/05 10:51 PM

Re: Side effects thank a lot for the info, is great.

HolydiverModerator () 02/10/05 11:22 PM

Re: Side effects I'm planning a 2 gram trip this weekend with the addition of cranberry juice, so I'll post my results here. Do most of you just mix the powder and drink, or do you let it soak awhile?

Keep the experiments coming but most importantly keep this thread alive! superbob57 (The Hobbit) 03/10/05 03:18 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

I understand this...do you think sunny D would work as well... Because i drank half-gallon of sunny D citrus and 2 grams of cubies and tripped balls, similiar to the other people it was real intense at first and then became very visual...I think anything citrus well help your chances at tripping...please share anymore drinks to help out trips...

Nashbar (just strange.... on drugs) 03/10/05 03:54 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... great thread... Does anyone enjoy a nice long, easy trip? I took an eighth last night and went to a concert. I barely chewed them at all, I hate getting those bits in my teeth. Swallowed big chunks with some water, so they wouldn't get digested as fast. I went on a fantastic trip for 8 hours of clubs and bars and music.

Zeus133 (doctor) 03/10/05 04:01 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Things to record for those trying this experiment:

# What liquid are you using?-pre bottled lemon juice concetrate

# How much liquid did you drink the powder with? (oz)-8oz

# Time to "first alert" (aka, "whoa, something's definitely going to happen")-15 min

# Time to onset of visual disturbance-30-45 min

# Time to peak (rough estimate)-3 hours

# Time to first sign of diminishing effects-3 hours # Time to baseline (indiscernable effects)-3 1/2 hours

Please also note if you take any other substances, specifically marijuana- This could pose a significant confound.-no food for 18 hours prior

Zeus133 (doctor) 03/10/05 04:04 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... oh i forgot to add the trip was the most intense trip ive ever had. almost lost control of it. Specs: 5'6' 145lbs. 7th trip

HeavyToilet (The Heaviest Of Them All) 03/10/05 04:08 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Well how much did you consume?

I'm definitely going to try this next time I get ahold of some mushrooms.

Zeus133 (doctor) 03/10/05 04:12 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... wow 1.7 grams sry still a little spacey from it.

Underhillmaster (Mycology Enthusiast) 03/10/05 08:39 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Lol, well I tried my single gram with lemon/lime. I used the juice from one lemon and one lime, which was exactly 1 fl. oz. I powdered my shrooms and combined. The effects were very noticeable, I got very spaced out listening to the new Shpongle album. The trip as a whole was equivalent to 3-4g eaten. I know it sounds crazy, but it literally feels like your tripping harder by a factor of 2x or 3x lol. I know a lot of you out there are a bit skeptical at this point. It's something you have to do to believe. In my original post to this thread, I expressed CAUTION, and I still think that way at this point. 4+g done this way could very well cause loss of control. But done with a little respect, I think you will be astounded by the results. This discovery could transform the whole mushroom culture, it's that incredible lol. During both trips, I felt like the lemon was teaching me the true meaning of the mushroom :0 During the first trip, I actually felt I had become the Lemon Prophet lol. Well I have shared the discovery, and I hope it benefits us all scatmanrav (Brainy Smurf) 03/10/05 05:39 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

You can make tea and have the exact same thing happen as with cranberry juice, or orange juice. I've tried orange juice 3 times, cranberry juice twice, and tea probably close to 50 times, straight most but probably 20 with lemon juice added. Ive tried lemon juice and water and water once each as well. All effects were very similar, and very strong..I tried 1 gram of good mushrooms in all of the catagories, some catagories I've tried multiple doses (like tea).

I believe the absorbic acid plays a part (just like adding the apples to stop oxidation) but its small..the biggest increase of the trip is due to you being able to absorb the mush quickly through your mouth (and stomach) because the actives are all now in liquid form.. Just what I think..

Wiccan_SeekerModerator (ex-addict since dec '02) 03/10/05 08:08 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Quote: This is why I'm going to have to chalk this one up to placebo effect. There's just no scientific reason why ANY juice would increase effects at all.

No, no, don't do THAT. Just because the theory may not be well-founded it doesn't at all mean the observations are incorrect! You are damning the observations with your inability to make sense of them, science at its worst.

Quote: I'd test this a few times.

Now that's the spirit! Do it properly as to not undermine your findings.

Evan (Hyperspace) 03/10/05 09:04 PM Re: I may have discovered something...

I plan on trying the lemon juice with 1.5 grams this weekend or the weekend after. Very interesting stuff. slammin007 (yearnin' ta learn) 03/10/05 10:11 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Very interesting...

How long are people letting the shroom powder 'soak' in the juice? I assume there would be a slightly different time for each juice for maximal effects in extracting and/or acting as a catalyst in psilocybin - psilocin conversion. Also, higher juice to shroom ratio to maximize surface area (to a point) and/or mixing to speed up whatever is taking place could increase effects. my $.02

BlueFos (Stranger) 03/10/05 11:42 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Ive also had the same effects using water and choppin my mushies up very finely.It seems to help if i let them soak for an extended time like atleast 20- 25mins. Im yet to try the lemon/lime juice or cranberry but ill have to try as soon as the season begins

Wiccan_SeekerModerator (ex-addict since dec '02) 03/10/05 11:50 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

If all goes well I might return tomorrow with two experience reports of very low doses of shrooms + liquids. kake (DO NOT FEED) 04/10/05 04:24 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... my friend let his soak for about 10 minutes, and I let mine soak for about 2, and subjectively, we experienced our peaks at just about the same time. i <3 this thread

Evan (Hyperspace) 04/10/05 04:39 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Quote: slammin007 said: a catalyst in psilocybin - psilocin conversion.

I am thinking the same as well.

Omk (...) 04/10/05 04:50 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Its kind of funny that no one has mentioned this before.

Nashbar (just strange.... on drugs) 04/10/05 06:59 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Quote: scatmanrav said: You can make tea and have the exact same thing happen as with cranberry juice, or orange juice. I've tried orange juice 3 times, cranberry juice twice, and tea probably close to 50 times, straight most but probably 20 with lemon juice added. Ive tried lemon juice and water and water once each as well. All effects were very similar, and very strong..I tried 1 gram of good mushrooms in all of the catagories, some catagories I've tried multiple doses (like tea).

he's right, liquids are absorbed lot faster than solids. very small amounts ground and steeped in any liquid produce good effects Manninee (Psilence Is Golden) 04/10/05 11:48 AM

This hyphus (thread)

Hey guys - the thread is supposed to be about if you can potentiate shroom tea or shroom juice with fruit juices (cranberry/grapefruit etc). Boiling shrooms or heating above 70 degrees C will convert the psilocybin to psilocin, whatever you put with it. We need to prove that shroom tea AND fresh shrooms are potentiated by the fruits. Gold Zingers and Grapefruit-Cubie smoothies all round, please!

Wiccan_SeekerModerator (ex-addict since dec '02) 04/10/05 02:02 PM

Re: This hyphus (thread)

Distilled water pH 7.0 Drinking water pH 6.5 – 8

Human blood pH 7.35 – 7.45 Human saliva pH 6.3 – 6.6 Stomach juice pH 1 – 3

Apple juice pH 2.9 – 3.3 Grapes pH 3.5 – 4.5 Grapefruit juice pH 3 – 3.3 Lemon juice pH 2.3 Lime pH 1.8 – 2 Orange juice pH 3 – 4 Tomato & tomato juice pH 4.2 Vinegar pH 2.4 – 3.4

------

What I find interesting is that the fruit juices involved tend to be in the pH range of stomach juice and that an often-drank juice which is in reasonably close pH proximity (Orange juice) is a source of a neverending debate about whether it potentiates mushrooms or not.

Hear me out:

1...Psilocin is preserved by acidity, destroyed by alkalinity 2...The stomach is acid, less acid after food or drink 3...The intestines are alkaline 4...Acidic foods are retained in the stomach for a longer period than nonacidic foods 5...Biologically unrelated fruit juices seem to potentiate psilocin All this sounds like the acid hypothesis might indeed be valid and the bioflavonoid hypothesis suffers the decreased likeliness of biologically unrelated juices having the same flavonoids. The MAOI hypothesis and the p450 hypothesis likely are invalid because these juices would definately be known to medicine to act in that way, like grapefruit is. (especially if you consider lemon juice is active at 1oz whereas grapefruit juice p450 effects seem to start at 5oz)

Today I'll conduct one or two experiments on myself today and I've asked a friend to squeeze in a designed experiment of his own, which he'll probably do. If Underhillmaster's Juice TEK works it will revolutionize shrooming as we know it, because several experimenters above agree that one portion could be shared among 2-4 people and give all of them a full-portion strength.

Wiccan_SeekerModerator (ex-addict since dec '02) 04/10/05 02:14 PM

Re: This hyphus (thread)

EXPERIMENT: Substitution of fruit juice with 30ml of a 5% Ascorbic acid solution (pH 2)

Liquid: 30ml (approx 1 fluid ounce) of a fluid consisting of 1.5gr Ascorbic acid (Vitamin C) and distilled water to yield an organic acid solution of pH 2 which is of mid-range stomach juice acidity and comparable to the lemon/lime juice described in the primary post.

Mushrooms: 0.25gr of Psilocybe cubensis powder (minimal dosage) of which I know the strength and effects in that dose. Contains about 2mg psilocybin, probably grown on grain.

Preparation: After preparation of the solution the powder will be stirred into it to prevent lumping, the liquid will be kept for 15 minutes in the dark and drank neat on an empty stomach without involvement of any recreational drugs in the previous week.

THE TEST:

3:30h --- Drank the portion. Not so vile as anticipated, it literally is at lemon- strength.

+3min --- LOL if this alert will develop typically we might have something here

+30min --- Umm.. Err.. Ok, here's the deal: the effect now is about as developed as it would be perhaps an hour into it. The acid-only method *definately* gives at least an increase of velocity over the 3-5oz of mushroom tea I usually take. So it's maybe twice as fast as strained mushroom tea and I'm beginning to think I might just get higher too. It feels *different* to a normal Minimal Dosage but this probably is due to it climbing more steeply. There already is the fuzzy head, the wobbly mind and the visual alterations characteristic of minimal dosage. To jump to conclusions: It seems to me the Acid Hypothesis is correct and that I might just get similar potentiation with my 5% Vitamin C. Dude! I mean dude! There definately is something going on beyond placebo here!

+45min --- Good God I'm definately getting potentiation here! It is now beyond what it would be as a mere tea, but because I'm NOT there yet I won't guess. I'm talking myself out of placebo effects but its NOT happening I sincerely hope I get in trouble, because that only occurs at 0.75gr and up. Underhillmaster: You DEFINATELY found something!! I'm producing more saliva than usually, likely a physiological reaction to reduce the acidity in my stomach.

+1hr --- Uhuh! I think I'll settle for a halving of climbing time leading to a doubling in height which makes it probable that pH 2 in the stomach leads to enhanced absorption compared to the usual methods of use. The Acidity Hypothesis is no longer hypo but I'd like independent verification. I think the rapid climb led to a different kind of effect, taking in the earlier experimenters to estimate greater multiplications.

I think a very acidic gulp urges the stomach to force its contents into the bloodstream, thereby pulling the psilocybin (or perhaps ANY alkaloid ) along with it. If this is the case you might double the strength of any alkaloid drug (thus halve its effective dose) if you take it on an empty stomach with a bit of lets say lemon juice. Or as for absorption: lemon-empty > empty stomach > some food > full meal

It makes sense, but if an acidic stomach indeed drives absorption into overdrive for general alkaloids it's a bloody revolution!

+1:30h --- I just aborted stomach acidity with some food and drink. I perhaps will go in a second time today, this time with 1oz of lemon juice to see if this leads to notable potentiation. Time to make a dose-response balance. Indeed, it came on about twice as fast and hit me twice as hard. The Acid Hypothesis holds true and I hope others will confirm or deny this lil experiment. It seems to be a matter of absorption efficiency and definately is beyond placebo. If 2 gr hits you as 4 you might settle on it feeling like 100 grams but if 0.25gr hits you as 0.5 there's enough objectivity left to make that call. What i'm hoping is that the juices will hit even better than Vitamin C solution! But it seems clear that carboxylic acidity alone (ascorbic instead of citric acid) enhances the efficiency of absorption above that of an empty stomach or mushrooms in a neutral pH solution.

1:45h --- We have trouble! Unexpectedly the strength rose further still and i'm definately at a 0.75-1gr strength (3-4x) without any shred of doubt. There's actually work to be done here mentally, rather than observing a response.

3:00h --- LORD GOD this is really unbelievable! This is.. DAMN! I'm experiencing a strength comparable to maybe 4-5 times the amount I took! My... word So to recapitulate I'm IMMERSED into a trip which has every single feature of a 1gr trip and I arrived here on 0.25gr (i'm twice as sensitive as the average user so it feels like 2gr on 0.5gr, basically) and I can hereby without any doubt confirm:

---The Acid Hypothesis is valid ---The approximate potentiation is at the very least 3x, likely 4x and possibly 5x the amount taken ---I'm tripping balls on a Minimal Dosage

4:00h --- Still going STRONG but clearly diminishing. I don't see this suddenly sinking into nothingness so I think I'll be in for the full duration (5-6 hours) a mushroom trip tends to have. LOL I thought the cat was in the basket at 1:30 but I got hammered shortly thereafter. I wonder if it's the food and drink (2oz cooked spiced meatloaf on a bun & 400ml Sprite/water 1/1) that activated it in the course of 15-20 minutes, the short stare at a rotating spiral but if you expect double and you get quadruple that can be called a kicking My dose is not your dose, but in darkness i had vivid imagery merging with thought and behind the PC fat waves rolled over the keyboard, the screen was warping and coming closer and further, sentences wiggled like snakes.. A kicking Looking back I'd dare call this a fivefold increase in potency as compared to eaten, capsules and tea. I don't know what 1oz of lemonjuice would do but 1 oz of 5% ascorbic acid, judging from the reports, might be as good or even an optimized version.

LOL many of you will read this and go "1.5gr vitamin C and a shotglass of water.. Riiiight;)" well, I was a tad skeptic too but i'm a believer now. If you follow the exact Ascorbic method an 1/8oz tripper will get FRIED by one gram. I hope Lemonjuice is just as good, but I have every reason to believe it is. Underhillmaster: if you get a huge grinning hippy at your door handing you a big pie it's either me or Erowid

+6:00h --- Although still a bit off I'm declaring myself back to biseline because it won't get much better today ^_^ I'm settling for a fivefold increase in potency for the Ascorbic method. I've got a sense of "enough is enough" that signifies a good-strength trip so I won't go in a second time tonight (I was planning on lemon) I'd have a tolerance anyway.

I'm completely blown away by the effectiveness of this pH 2 ascorbic mushroom concoction.

I'd love it if somebody would verifyu this *exact* experiment, but I know my responses and know what I just went through

MrMolotov (Stranger) 04/10/05 03:38 PM

Re: This hyphus (thread)

I will be doing an experience with 2 g's and 1 oz offresh squeased lemon juice this weekend. will let you know the results.

Wiccan_SeekerModerator (ex-addict since dec '02) 04/10/05 06:54 PM

Re: This hyphus (thread)

For *%$^&$# sake don't take 2gr!!

Umm if what happened to me on ascorbic (see above - its updated) happen to you that 2gr might fold open to feel just like 8gr or higher.

Proceed with caution: you can actually bump your head against the ceiling of what you can handle! richardcypher101 (Mycophagous) 04/10/05 07:22 PM

Re: This hyphus (thread)

Everyone also needs to state what kind of sub their mushies were grown on. Hpoo, BRF Cakes, WBS, etc...

What were yours Wiccan?

Wiccan_SeekerModerator (ex-addict since dec '02) 04/10/05 07:48 PM

Re: This hyphus (thread)

Judging from the size of them (about 3-4 inch) I would say they were off a grain substrate. No telltale specks of vermiculite though, and it being Dutch commercial mushrooms I'd say prolly WBS.

Wiccan_SeekerModerator (ex-addict since dec '02) 04/10/05 09:53 PM

Re: This hyphus (thread)

The friend I talked about just informed me he drank his concoction at 21:30h EXPERIMENT -- 0.5gr Psilocybe cubensis in 100ml lemon/orange juice

The liquid: 50ml homemade orange juice combined with 50ml storebought lemon juice (1:1) approximate pH 3

The mushrooms: same as described in my above experiment, half a gram grain-grown P.Cub.

The concoction: The powdered mushrooms were added to the mixed juices and left standing for two minutes.

The subject: Has drank alcohol last night, has not touched food since a tiny meal 3 1/2 hours ago.

THE TEST:

21:30h -- drank the concoction. +3min -- distinct alert, went off meditating, will report later. +30min -- distinct closed eye visuals 01:00h -- talks about a "hard wave" and difficulty typing, drinks soup 01:20h -- likens the strength of effect to the 2gr mushrooms of same batch consumed two weeks earlier a fourfold increase in potency again some 20min after "eating" 01:30h -- announces he'll take an hour or so of meditation in darkness 02:00h -- he was watching visuals and estimated it 1.5-2gr, or 3-4x

LIVE TEST -- WILL REPORT LATER ON yousuck () 04/10/05 09:58 PM

Re: This hyphus (thread) essh, WBS mushrooms? those are the only shrooms ive ever taken that make me feel like im going to die or be killed, though they have been the most potent shrooms ive ever gotten. definitely wouldnt take those with any potentiator.

I wouldnt tell people to take no more than 1gr, hell i took 3.5g with cranberry and although it got pretty intense, it wasnt totally out of control. I do agree about the 4X-5X potentiation. The 3.5 i took felt like if i had taken 15g's or so.

I find it hard to believe that vitamin C can bring the PH of distilled water down to 2. I cant even get the PH down to 3 using phos acid, but thats just due to the logarithmic PH cap of it. Still, the only acid i know of that can get water down to a PH of 2 is muriatic. Perhaps you should retest the PH of your asorbic water.

Wiccan_SeekerModerator (ex-addict since dec '02) 04/10/05 10:08 PM

Re: This hyphus (thread)

Yup, a 5% ascorbic acid solution in distilled water has pH 2, check your merck index on it to save you some calculations. As seen by the figures quoted above even lemon & lime juice is around that pH. If only mineral acids can get you there, your pH meter is broken

Quote: I wouldnt tell people to take no more than 1gr, hell i took 3.5g with cranberry and although it got pretty intense, it wasnt totally out of control. I do agree about the 4X-5X potentiation. The 3.5 i took felt like if i had taken 15g's or so.

I dunno about your tolerance or your mushrooms but 15gr P Cub will blow the average user to shite! The average shroomerite uses about two-thirds of 1/8oz for a run-of-the-mill trip. We are talking about dried mushrooms, are we?

Quote: they have been the most potent shrooms ive ever gotten. definitely wouldnt take those with any potentiator.

You can if you dose very conservatively. I did (0.25gr) and still got hit HARD, as you can see by my descriptions of effects. I'm very sensitive to mushrooms.

LazyCrash (Neo-Hippy Extremist) 04/10/05 10:38 PM

Re: This hyphus (thread)

I should have fucking saved some shrooms!!!!

...or A shroom for that matter!

THIS IS SIMPLY AMAZING

I consider The Shroomery blessed to have a thread like this created. Evan (Hyperspace) 04/10/05 10:47 PM

Re: This hyphus (thread)

Good work Wiccan_Seeker. I plan on redoing your experiment Sunday night.

Manninee (Psilence Is Golden) 05/10/05 12:42 AM

Re: This hyphus (thread)

OK - So ASCORBIC ACID is a potentiator. I guess we need to try citric and tartaric acids too (other fruit/berry acids) and do a control with 5% acetic acid (vinegar, y'all!). There's gonna be a bunch of people looking like Wile-E- Coyote on Alum!

The big question - Does any acid act as a potentiator? Or is it just the ascorbic acid (vitamin C - known, by the way, to interfere with the function of parts of the p450 liver enzyme ladder)

Check out this link from a crank(y) chemistry board: http://forum.avantlabs.com/index.php?showtopic=12967

Manninee (Psilence Is Golden) 05/10/05 01:46 AM

Theories for how this potentiation works

There are several different ways that ascorbic acid/vit c and the chemicals in fruit juices might enhance the passage and/or activation of psilocybin:

(i) The Vitamin C transporter molecules in gut cells: People know that ascorbic acid is transported 'actively' in the gut (ie - by cellular machinery... specialised proteins) but as I understand, nobody has yet identified these molecules in gut, although they have been found elsewhere in the body. Many transporter molecules absorb more than one molecule simultaneously, and some chemicals enhance the absorbtion of others. Maybe Psilocybin and Vitamin C are co-transported, with the ascorbic acid facilitating the uptake of psilocybin?

(iii) The other mechanism for prolongation could be the anti-oxidative properties of vitamin c interfering with the dephosphorylation of psilocybin to psilocin somehow - possibly making it a more gradual process.

Either way, little is known about the mechanisms of vitamin C action. It certainly seems to work if Wiccan Seeker's experimental result is true.

However, the flavonoid argument also cannot be overlooked as it based on pre-existing scientific evidence of drug potentiation. Many people use chocolate to bring a trip on faster - It works for me, and there's no acid in chocolate (just flavonoids!).

Perhaps ascorbic acid and flavonoids both get the same effect in different ways?

MrMolotov (Stranger) 05/10/05 01:51 AM

Re: This hyphus (thread)

HM maybe I will lower my dose to.75g didn't read the post above mine till just now Cu's i was in a hurry with the last dose. i will try with acetic acid from Heinze vinegar. you know would balsamic vinegar work? because balsamic tastes much much better or how about pickle juice for that matter?

EDIT: about what substrate these shrooms were from the same batch as my hero dose 10g's very potent might reconsider dropping dose to .50 but as of now i am capping it at .75 max

HolydiverModerator () 05/10/05 02:03 AM

Re: This hyphus (thread)

Damn, I was going to try this with 2 grams this weekend. That number just dropped to 1 gram. Good stuff!

MrMolotov (Stranger) 05/10/05 02:08 AM

Re: This hyphus (thread) yea i will do .75 if i don't get my perfect conditions 1 gram if i get everything just right. hm i wonder if 20 or 30 mg of adderall would also help intensify the effects because adderall would speed up your heart rate and with the hypothesis that more psilocin is in your blood stream that the adderall would speed its distribution to your brain maybe inducing a faster steeper come up? will experiment after i successfully complete the 1 g in vinegar trip.

Underhillmaster (Mycology Enthusiast) 05/10/05 02:12 AM

Re: Theories for how this potentiation works

Thanks to everyone who has tried it and can verify it. I know from experience that this works. For those that have tried fruit juices in the past and aren't really agreeing, I can only ask that you try to recompare strengths between eaten and drank doses. For the drinking doses, I ask that you recompare strengths between different liquids. I have taken 12g dry of my personally grown rye/poo shrooms mixed with a milkshake and it barely felt like 2 grams eaten to me. I have mixed with water, pop, and alcohol on different occasions and noticed a twofold effect if I was lucky, usually like 1.5 the eaten dose. Orange and grapefruit always seemed to be twofold and above increase from eaten. Cranberry seemed to increase the strength even further. My friends and I have switched permanently to cranberry, because there is no doubt to any of us that it is way better(over 20 people). I finally tried lemon/lime last week and it was way stronger than cranberry. This is all just from my own experiences and what I have observed from them. My near 3gram first experience with lemon/lime felt like I had taken 15, and I was much higher than I had ever been. Like 2-3 times higher lol, and since I wasn't expecting it, it almost got out of control. Now that I have tried it again, with a much smaller dosage, I am 100% sure that it definitely increases the effects by a factor of 3x or more. If you try it, you will know too lol.

Thanks Wiccan for getting the community involved more and actually trying yourself. From your post on pHs you did, I am thinking lime maybe the fruit of choice. pH of 1.8-2.0 and limes yield a lot of juice compared to a lemon. After a few weeks of not tripping, I will try a pure lime juice mix and see if I can notice anymore increase.

As I said in my first post, be careful when trying this, don't do something like taking the most you ever did and trying it with this method. That would be extremely dangerous imo. You would probably be best doing 1/4-1/3 of your normal amount. After experience, you will be able to figure out your proper dose correctly, that is what I plan to do. This makes level 5 easily obtainable now, but may show some people that they don't really want to go there. So trip responsibly everybody slammin007 (yearnin' ta learn) 05/10/05 03:12 AM

Re: Theories for how this potentiation works Another thought, since psilocybin and psilocin are alkaloids, they are not water soluble until the pH is lowered ( water becomes acidic). When the pH is changed to acidic, the alkaloids will dissolve in water in a salt form. Alkaloids are, however, soluble in alcohol. Could we get a similar effect by soaking or mixing the shrooms in some vodka and taking a shot?

Perhaps the reason that the stomach acid doesn't potentiate effects is because gastric juice doesn't have as much time to act on the chewed shrooms filled with saliva before they leave the stomach and enter the intestines where they are neutralized.

Seems that pre-extracting the compunds into liquid makes it easier and is faster to absorb in the intestine. yousuck () 05/10/05 05:01 AM

Re: Theories for how this potentiation works well, i guess the next step would be for someone to take an asorbic acid shrooms mixture, then a week later take a cranberry or lemon shroom mixture and compare their relatively effectiveness. I honestly think vitamin C by itself cannot be as effective as cranberry juice which contains a helluva lot more chemicals to aid in the process.

You must remember that our bodies absorbtion of artifical vitamin C is 8X less effective than natural vitamin C. Chances are the pills your using are artifical. Better include that info in your trip reports. doesntmattermuch (Stranger) 05/10/05 05:41 AM

Re: Theories for how this potentiation works just some info i know for a fact that vitamin C makes for a stronger trip because one of the things that asorbic (acid vitamin c)does is break down tryptomine making for a stronger harder faster trip hence why drinking orange juice can give you a slightly harder trip but im just speaking from an anatomical point of view schoolOnCid (Stranger) 05/10/05 05:55 AM

Re: Theories for how this potentiation works

I would HIGHLY recommend eating shrooms with ginger (I ALWAYS do now) because it seems to prevent stomach issues. I mixed some shrooms with lemons and oranges in a blender the trip was pretty intense and I remember when I went to the dining commons I got a shitload of looks (my eyes were probably more intense looking than they have ever been...on shrooms .

I tried 2 lemons and limes with a bit of shake today and it did't do much, I'll try some with more later.

Dimmy (A wide-eyed explorer) 05/10/05 06:04 AM

Re: Theories for how this potentiation works this shit is crazy. when i read the origional account i thought it was bullshit and now different people are trying and getting the same results. What? getting a 2 gram trip from .25? amazing! this may well be a revolution in the psychedelic community. I'm def gonna try this for my next trip. mad props underhillmaster. the_psychonaut (psychonaut) 05/10/05 07:06 AM

Re: Theories for how this potentiation works i want to try this badly, but i dont want to east 1-2gs this way, then not be at the level i want to be at and have try to up the dose later in the trip(which is a waste in my opinion. i usually think i wont eat more to try to re-up a trip, but when im tripping, i just dont think straight cornoir (Stranger) 05/10/05 09:02 AM slapped together theory #1

Acetic acid (Vinegar)plays a important part in metabolism. Citric acid (lemon) plays little or ?? part in humans

Cranberry juice has a pH of 3.5 Psilocybin has a pH of 5.2

Psilocybin breaks down in the body to form Psilocin (the good stuff). Psilocin is unstable in solutions, ESPECIALLY alkaline (Base)ones.

Psilocin is obtained by dephosphorylation (bonding of Phosphate) of psilocybin under strongly acidic or alkaline conditions.

*****So my theory goes like this; Acidic drinks helps to "prep" the Psilocin for consumption by extracting Psilocybin & Psilocin into a highly acidic solution.

This solution has the Psilocin released in a liquid form so that is what hits you first like a shotgun I assume. The Psilocybin will have to be broken down into psilocin by your body, but that has a kick start due to the Psilocybin being in a "free form" liquid and the high acidity.

Also the concentrations of Psilocin alkaloids extracted with acetic acid (.25) were over 2x that of methanol extraction (.11) for P. cubensis.

Means stronger kick if not a shorter one I suppose, any reports on durations?

And for the final challenge for those with no taste buds left, try using vinegar to see if this helps to improve the experience.

Disclaimer: no test or experiences just an overactive mind with the Internet at my disposal and an anal personality, 'nuff said. stefanModerator (work in progress) 05/10/05 11:01 AM

Re: This hyphus (thread)

Quote: There definately is something going on beyond placebo here!

Actually you can't conclude that just like that, it could be very well a strong placebo effect. Even if it is placebo it's great that it works so well

What I'm trying to say is don't jump on any conclusions since you can't be really sure to make any. Everyone who tried this has read this thread and results are therefore biased. They think they're going to trip harder and maybe because of that they trip harder!(placebo)

Important!We also need people to try this out without knowing it (control group) and when they say themselves that the trip was stronger than usual (without asking them, wich may lead to false recollection of trip memory.*example: "Dude, whas this the strongest trip ever or what!? Well, now I think of it... it maybe was!". If it's really that much stronger they will tell you without having to ask them! ). If they also report much stronger effects than we really might be on to something.

Not trying to bring a downer to this experiment, just trying to make it a better one

In the mean while keep doing this, as long as it works for you it's totally worth playing around with it Wiccan_SeekerModerator (ex-addict since dec '02) 05/10/05 11:05 AM

Re: Theories for how this potentiation works

STANDARDIZED PROCEDURE for EXPERIMENTING

--Empty Stomach (at least 3 hours with no food) --Dried powdered mushrooms soaked for 15 minutes in 1-3 fl. oz. liquid --Eating/drinking (glass of milk) at 1-1:30 hours into it (optional)

FLUIDS -- NATURAL STANDARDS --Lime juice pH 2.0-2.35 (FDA) --Lemon juice pH 2.0-2.6 (FDA) --Cranberry juice pH 2.3-2.5 (FDA) --Vinegar pH 2.4-3.4 (FDA) --Grapefruit juice pH 2.9-3.25 (FDA)

FLUIDS -- ACID STANDARDS --Ascorbic acid 5% pH 2.0 (MERCK) --0.1N Citric acid 2% pH 2.2 (MERCK) --0.1N Tartaric acid 1.5% pH 2.2 (MERCK) --0.1N Ascorbic acid 1.75% pH 2.3 (MERCK) --0.1N Acetic acid 0.6% pH 2.9 (MERCK) fluids must be prepared as grams/milliliter from destilled/demineralized water and the corresponding food grade acids.

MUSHROOMS -- PSILOCYBIN STANDARD a sample of well-dried Psilocybe cubensis must be ground to a well-mixed fine powder and stored airtight, preferably refrigerated or frozen. Each gram will have about equal potency and can be used across experiments to compare relative strengths. Given the currently reported potentiation ratio of 2-5x it is advisable to take 1/4 of the usual amount for those more reluctant to overshoot the mark and 1/3 of the usual amount for those more reluctant to fall short of the target.

PREPERATION OF THE CONCOCTION the correct amount of acids is dissolved in the proper amount of water without residue. The recommended amount of liquid to prepare for one dose is 1-3 fluid ounces: less may not suffice and more liquid may dilute the mushroom extract too much and cause unneeded stomach discomfort. The mushroom powder is stirred into the liquid to avoid lumping and the liquid is left to steep for 15 minutes. If multiple doses are prepared it is crucial to divide the neat juice or acidic liquid into portions and add weighed amounts of mushrooms to them seperately to avoid uneven distribution of 4-HO-DMT. The concoction is not filtered.

USE OF THE CONCOCTION After a 15 minute steep the concoction is drank at once on an empty stomach. It is preferable to not have eaten anything in over three hours and not to have drank water within 1:30 hour prior to dosing. After 1-1:30 hours a light snack and fluids can be taken to dilute the acidic stomach contents, for instance a glass of milk or a sandwich with a glass of water. If the snack is light a booster dose can be taken between 3-4 hours after dosing for prolongation of the peak.

MINIMAL NOTES TO TAKE --composition and quantities of the concoction's ingredients. If you don't have scales you can use 2-4 tablespoons of a juice listed above and a volume or division of mushroom powder you can compare with what you usually take. Thimbles make good standards for eyeballing mushroom powders. A statement like "I took half a thimble but it felt like two" although not as accurate as weighing still provides useful information. --empty stomach & the optional snack taken --with how much mushrooms the strength compares on 00:30-01:00-02:00 of the experiment and preferably more often, offset by an estimation after the effect has cleared --prior drug use in the three days preceding or a week if it was heavy use --typical and unusual observations objective and subjective

Be very careful not to overshoot the mark and don't use nonfood acids, acidities stronger than pH 2 nor large quantities thereof. Use common sense and prepare your doses in advance if you plan on redosing. It is proven to work so do not bump your head against the ceiling of what you can handle. Bring Underhillmaster a pie for his revolutioonary invention and thorough research. Proceed with caution and at your own risk!

AnnomModerator () 05/10/05 11:10 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

General reply

Good thread. I'm following this for a while now and it gets really interesting.

Before I say something about the value of your experiences, I have to say that I don't think you all aren't honest about your experiences. I'm just a bit skeptic because I've read a lot about doing research and placebo effect/power of the mind.

If we approach this scientific, we can only get indications of what might be the case. We can't draw conclusions from a few non-double-blind personal experiments that are influenced in some way or another by wishful thinking, confirmation bias, placebo effect, selective thinking and subjective validation.

Wiccan_SeekerModerator (ex-addict since dec '02) 05/10/05 11:19 AM

Re: This hyphus (thread)

Stefan, you're right ofcourse but a fivefold increase in potency is very unlikely to be placebo only, i'm pretty trained at what 0.25gr can do and this was so far off the mark it wasnt even funny

I know it is VERY unlikely but by now its very probable something is going on. Underhillmaster is experienced for more than 20 years and 100 trips and did trials on 20 acquantances for 6 months and the responses were uniform. Some initial critics here gracefully ate their words after experimenting. You don't often see that. I'm a veteran myself and got a forceful trip off a treshold dose.

We cant be sure yet but I'm a believer. How about trying it yourself and becoming a Bodysnatcher too?

AnnomModerator () 05/10/05 11:21 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

I'm going to try this with 1.5g today or 1g stefanModerator (work in progress) 05/10/05 11:30 AM

Re: This hyphus (thread)

Hi wiccan

It's very probably that something is going on, but we can't be sure is what I was saying. Please keep the idea of a control-group in mind (see my post above) to make it a better experiment.

I'll probably try it ...but I still don't feel like tripping yet since this trip in the summer vacation It is slowly starting to itch again though, so in a while I'll be ready for a new psychedelic adventure

PS have fun Annom!! *will be sending good vibes your way tonight!*

Wiccan_SeekerModerator (ex-addict since dec '02) 05/10/05 11:34 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

*closes blast doors* 1.5 grams you say?

Annom, may I ask you to repeat the Ascorbic experiment? You can get 1gr TR vitamin C at the Kruidvat which you can crush and dissolve in hot water (5 to 100ml, use half - you know) if you lack ascorbic acid powder. Many local supermarkets have knijpcitroenen (yellow for lemon, green for lime) should you not find fresh lemons/limes.

Please make notes in advance before you take your dose, so we can puzzle together what happened to you while you are doing same at a more fundamental level

Zet m op Annom

AnnomModerator () 05/10/05 11:45 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

Yes, I was already planning to repeat your experiment. I have 250mg vit C pills. I will take 1g cubes.

What kind of notes do you want me to make before I take my dose?

Wiccan_SeekerModerator (ex-addict since dec '02) 05/10/05 12:01 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

The usual stuff, preparation specifics and such stuff easily washed away by a forceful trip. (and I hope you'll get one) Remember that probably pH = k3y so water intake must be limited too as part of the "empty stomach". Also look whether or not the pill binders etc won't interfere with pH or absorption. (6 pills to make 30ml is alot of excipients) What are your usual shrooming amounts?

BON VOYAGE! I hope you'll have quite the ride!

My snack at 1:15h consisted of two worstebroodjes and a drink consisting of 200ml Sprite (lemon & lime drink!) and 200ml water. I believe it somehow helped potentiate the effects further but that might well be placebo as I was already on the rise.

AnnomModerator () 05/10/05 12:36 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

Ok, will do!

I will test the pH with lakmoespapier (pH paper).

I usually take 3-4g. I'm still experimenting with different doses though. I've always had 'control' over my trips so far so I'm confident 1g is not too much. The mushrooms are from a commercial shop where I always buy my mushrooms if I have to buy them. They have always been good and more or less the same potency.

I'll ingest the mushrooms in a few hours, go to the forest, take a GPS to make sure I won't get lost, bring a notebook to make notes, bring some valium just for feeling confident(won't take it, 99.9% sure), look at the trees and have a journey trough my mind and nature aNewPerception (candy eater) 05/10/05 05:12 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute] my hardest shroom trip ever was on half an eighth of some small shrooms. i had just eaten a big ass bowl of spaghetti. the shrooms were small, so i just broke them into pieces, balled the tissue up and swallowed them like pills (idunno about u guys but the taste of shrooms makes me gag.. it usually takes me 20-30 min to eat an 8th). i used gatorade to wash them down, and it hit me in 10-15 minutes. level 5 trip, witht he confusion ego loss and all. kinf of similar to ur fast acting lemon juice. iono just my 2 sense.

AnnomModerator () 05/10/05 05:14 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

I'm back from my experiment. First result: 1g with ascorbic acid was not stronger than 1g, in my experience.

I'm coming down now so I'll report back later with more details.

I had a wonderful trip though

Alex213 (Stranger) 05/10/05 06:38 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

If the acidity helps break down/digest the shrooms

It doesn't. I had an acid reflux condition and was given something that reduced/destroyed all the acid in my stomach. I asked whether this would affect my digestion and the doctor said the acid has nothing whatsoever to do with digestion. It's enzymes that digest your food.

My take is that the "Lemon juice" is pure placebo.

AnnomModerator () 05/10/05 07:17 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Yes, enzymes digest the food, but these enzymes can function only in a highly acidic environment. That's why we have a strong acid in our stomach. ixitwistedixi (The TwIsTeD One) 05/10/05 07:18 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Ill give this a go on my next flush but here is what i can come up w/ on whats happening here. Whenever you eat/take any drug on an empty stomach you will trip harder and it will come on faster. My guess is that the lemon juice is extracting the psilocin into liquid form (obviously going to digest quicker) therefore hit you even quicker than in solid form. And as far as more potent i haven't done any research on this but Ive always heard Vitamin C increases your trip, so maby thats the reason for seemingly increased potency yousuck () 05/10/05 07:31 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... Annom, try 1g with cranberry juice in a few days. I dont know why everyone is taking lemon juice or vitamin C. If you read the other bioflavinoid post on the forum you would know that not all citrus contains bioflavinoids, and not all of what contains bioflavinoids have a high enough amount to do anything IE orange juice.

Were talking about a disabling of enzymes that break down psilocin, not simply assisting the existing enzyme's or aiding the digesting process. You wont get a 2X-5X potentation due to simply aiding your digestive system, its obviously a case of inhibiting an enzyme that would otherwise metabolize what you ingest.

Wiccan_SeekerModerator (ex-addict since dec '02) 05/10/05 07:46 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Quote: Were talking about a disabling of enzymes that break down psilocin

We got two going theories: the bioflavonoid hypothesis and the acidity hypothesis. I myself had an acid without additives work for me, it even rammed as hard as it did in any trial described.

Quote: You wont get a 2X-5X potentation due to simply aiding your digestive system, its obviously a case of inhibiting an enzyme that would otherwise metabolize what you ingest.

An intravenous injection of a few mg of Psilocybin can rock your world, which means that if the digestive system can be given a boost, 2-5x potentiation is perfectly possible and still not close to IV injection.

And maybe your holy grail enzyme (which might indeed exist) is blocked by carboxylic acidity. We should try anything helpful but the focus lies on the Cranberry, Lemon & Lime juices of the initial post.

Wiccan_SeekerModerator (ex-addict since dec '02) 05/10/05 07:53 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

Quote: First result: 1g with ascorbic acid was not stronger than 1g, in my experience. I'm coming down now so I'll report back later with more details. I had a wonderful trip though

Great you had a wonderful trip!! But not so great it diodnt work out for you. Chill out after a day wellspent.. But THEN we want all the details!

Evan (Hyperspace) 05/10/05 09:09 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

I believe that these experiences are not related to vitamin C or acids of any kinds. I am starting to believe that psilocybin/psilocin in liquid form is what is causing this. If you go to erowid and you read experiences with tea, most will say that they are well into the trip after 20 minutes. I have personally drank tea containing mushrooms, tea leaves, and water and have been tripping within 15 minutes.

HeavyToilet (The Heaviest Of Them All) 05/10/05 09:25 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

Quote: Annom said: Yes, I was already planning to repeat your experiment. I have 250mg vit C pills. I will take 1g cubes.

How did you take the mushrooms? With just the vitamin C, or did you use lemon juice as well? Did you grind the mushrooms up?

I highly doubt this has anything to do with vitamin C. Many people take vitamin C before a trip, but I've never heard of anyone claiming it to be twice as strong or more than usual. Some people claim vitamin C does something, and some people claim it does nothing. I don't think anyone has claimed vitamin C to produce a drastic change.

I think the vitamin C thing is just placebo.

Chemical_Bliss (Officer of the law...) 05/10/05 09:42 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

Heres my two cents....

Okay I dont have a whole lot of experience with mushrooms (5 times at doses ranging from .75- 1.5 grams, had a trobuled experience with ayahuasca so I have been wading gently into mushrooms for the past 8 months or so).

Anyway on the last time I tripped I had recently purchased a coffee grinder and had heard that grinding the mush results in a quicker come on.....what an understatement. I ended up pretty much having effects that the poster of this topic experienced at just 1.5 grams.

Trying to remeber what I had to drink to wash down the powder with...I`m near positive it was a citrus flavored vitamin water. Might this explain my effects?

So I`m guessing people dont just have those kind of effects off simply grinding them? Is it indeed the acidity?

I`m really interested in this and someday soon will experiment with lemon juice...on my next trip sometime this month.

Evan (Hyperspace) 05/10/05 10:09 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

The original poster of this topic said he ground up mushrooms and used a liquid to extract the psilocybin from the mushrooms. From this and what I have read I can use the evidence to say the following.

Here is my two cents: Since psilocybin isn't extracted very efficiently using water, and is commonly extracted using acetic acid ( vinegar) link the ascorbic acid (Vit C) helps with extraction proccess.

There is no proof or reason that ascorbic acid would potentiate the effects of psilocybin.

I believe the real reason and only reason for potentiated effects are from faster absorbant rates because the psilocybin is now in liquid form. Much faster into the blood stream.

Vitamin C is not a potentiator;all that is happening is the body is recieving psilocybin/psilocin at a faster rate causing a trip which is more intense and of less duration.

Underhillmaster (Mycology Enthusiast) 05/10/05 10:12 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

Ok, I have been doing a lot thinking about this. I appreciate all the people who are contributing to this little experiment. I see a lot of people mentioning that this is maybe a placebo effect. It is my opinion that over the course of decades and over a hundred trips, I have become a very good judge of the strength of different doses, done a variety of different ways. Not to say that placebos dont have an effect on me, but I do believe it is very minimal. I have always been able to quantify the level of my trip, and when compared with dosing amounts and methods over time, gives me a decent overview of such. I realize that my trips are not your trips etc, etc. Over the course of time, I have noticed a very definable trend in my own experiences. Drinking in a milkshake was the weakest way I ever found to do them. Followed in strength by eating dry shrooms. Next would be eating fresh shrooms. Next would be water and soda mixes. After that would be orange juice and apple juice. Even stronger still in my experience is making shroom tea. The only methods I have found stronger than tea is grapefruit juice, cranberry, and then lemon/lime. This is all just from my personal experiences. I can't post all my trip journals lol, but needless to say I have done personal research for years. Every single person I know personally who has tried cranberry juice has had the same experience as I, and only do them that way now. They are all waiting for my next pick to try lemon/lime, and I will be able to give you their opinions of that at a later time.

After reading all the posts a few times, and doing some research, I have come up with my current working theory on what is going on lol. I am starting to think that a combination of factors are contributing to the effects. Almost all people can agree that powdered shrooms in a liquid solution will have increased effects from just that. So that contributes. Most people will also agree that you can extract psylocybin/psylocin from mushrooms with an acidic solution. So that process is begun as soon as you combine ingredients, instead of when the eaten shrooms would hit your stomach. This should mean that you have more of the active chemicals available for absorbtion while it is in your stomach. Throw in that fruit juices, specifically citrus fruits, are full of basic sugars, which are easily absorbed into the bloodstream. And then you can throw in the bioflavinoid factor. Certain enzymes are affected which allow for a greater 'first pass' absorption of the actve chemicals. So basically, you get the benefit of the shrooms being in a liquid solution, that is full of simple sugars, and very acidic which breaks down the chemicals into the solution giving you more actives available. Once this mixture hits your stomach, the bioflavinoid factor allows you to absorb more of the actives, which there are more of now since it is in acidic solution, and since the solution is also heavy with simple sugars, you are able to absorb everything as fast as possible. More actives in solution(due to extraction beginning in acidic solution) + ability to absorb more(bioflavinoid) + very easily absorbed liquid(mostly sugars)= new experience:)

That's just my thoughts atm. I would like to ask that anyone who continues the experiment, be as subjective as possible and do your best to eliminate the placebo effect. This also includes the opposite of the placebo effect, which would be being sure it won't work before you try it. Skepticism is to be expected, but I realize as much as most of you, that most of the best ideas come from the community. I know I wouldnt be able to grow my own if it wasnt for the cultivation forums here lol. Just try to be impartial and open minded.

Evan (Hyperspace) 05/10/05 10:13 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

If vitamin C is what is causing this, than you should be able to eat your mushrooms whole, and eat a vitamin C capsul disolved in water. If the effects aren't potentiated, vitamin C is out.

Wiccan_SeekerModerator (ex-addict since dec '02) 05/10/05 10:31 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

Quote: There is no proof or reason that ascorbic acid would potentiate the effects of psilocybin.

The reason for the experiment was to test the hypothesis that acidity and acidity alone could cause such a potentiation. The outcome was a 5x increase in potency. There's a reason and proof.

Quote: I believe the real reason and only reason for potentiated effects are from faster absorbant rates because the psilocybin is now in liquid form.

Nope: I almost always use my mushrooms as tea (already in liquid form) and this was five times stronger as every single time i took this amount. The difference? pH 2 instead of 7.

Quote: Vitamin C is not a potentiator;all that is happening is the body is recieving psilocybin/psilocin at a faster rate causing a trip which is more intense and of less duration.

If something causes an intensification of the trip it is in fact a potentiator. If something enhances the bioavailability it is a potentiator, whether its a simple fruit acid or a beta-carboline.

Let's not theorize without taking the observations into the equasion.

Evan (Hyperspace) 05/10/05 11:02 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

Wiccan_Seeker:

I am sorry, I have used the wrong word.

What I meant to say is that Vitamin C is not a catalyst. Vitamin C is being used as an extraction tool and nothing more. There is a big difference. As I said above we could prove that vitamin C is not a catalyst by eating your mushrooms whole, and drink a vitamin C capsule disolved in water in between each bite of mushrooms. If the effects aren't potentiated, vitamin C not a catalyst, but an extraction tool.

"The reason for the experiment was to test the hypothesis that acidity and acidity alone could cause such a potentiation. The outcome was a 5x increase in potency. There's a reason and proof."

There is no proof or reason in your experiment without further results. I am working with the facts, nothing more. When Annom repeated your experiment his results were completely different. Reading your posts from the beggining you sounded like you were very excited which makes me think placebo has effected your testing. I have experienced placebo's effects before and was suprised at the power they have! I do trust you in that you have had a lot of experience with the dose you took, but I also think placebo had its effects as well.

I am not trying to sound like a dick. I am all for this experiment and am just trying to get the best facts to use for a conclusion of this.

Much love cornoir (Stranger) 05/10/05 11:37 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

Evan, Go back a few postings to my last post about a possible theory (or parts thereof) that mentions liquid digestion as a possible factor in such quick acting effects of Psilocin.

Teas might not be the best option for liquid form though as Psilocin is not stable and quickly breaks down (mostly by heat but also by chemical reaction).

Psilocin is especially unstable in a alkali mix, water is pH 7.0, with baking soda added it can go as high as 8.3 (but why would you drink a base drink). So the more acidic (lower pH) the solution the longer the psilocin might remain in a liquid solution, thus more quantity to enter your system.

A simple test of 2 grams in a shot glass of water (pH 7)and one with cranberry juice (pH 3.5) and test it out on 2 "blind" subjects, record the results. Might want to even mix the 4 grams thoroughly to try and even the "effect" for both test.

But mind you I still think it might shorten duration, the flame that burns twice as bright, burns half as long. cornoir (Stranger) 05/10/05 11:54 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

Crazy thought as a way of skipping ahead to expand our knowledge in this area.

What about bypassing the stomach acids altogether?

I remember a test with DMSO (Dimethyl Sulfoxide) and lemon juice. mix lemon juice and DMSO and touch it with your fingertip, within a minute you should taste lemon.

So if one was to mix a 1 gram dose mixed with enough lemon juice to make it slightly soggy then mix in a little DMSO, wait 5 seconds and touch it, theoretically it should affect you harder than say using just plain water to make the shroom paste. Theoretically.

HeavyToilet (The Heaviest Of Them All) 06/10/05 12:34 AM Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

Quote: Evan said: Reading your posts from the beggining you sounded like you were very excited which makes me think placebo has effected your testing.

Can you really see a placebo effect causing something to be 4 or 5 times as strong though? That sounds pretty far fetched for placebo.

Evan (Hyperspace) 06/10/05 02:18 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

Don't you think that it is interesting that Annom had a views about how "wishful thinking, confirmation bias, placebo effect, selective thinking and subjective validation." and then repeated Wiccan_Seekers experiment and had no effects while Wiccan_Seeker who was excited about it had the 4 to 5 time effect? Also Wiccan_Seeker took .25 grams of mushrooms and said it felt like 1 gram. How does he know it didn't feel like .6 grams of mushrooms or .7? If it was .75 Then its only 3 imes the potency. He seemed pretty excited throughout his trip diary. Tripping while being excited could easily intensify the trip, especially if you feel you are part of a revolutionary process. Not very scientific at all.

The real deal is you can't 100% say that it FEELS like 4 to 5 times stronger, especially if you are dealing with small doses and with as many factors as we are dealing with.

I do think that Wiccan_Seeker had a more than average experience. I'm sure that extracting psilocybin with an acid such as the ones found in lemon juice, and taking it with a liquid on an empty stomach would intensify a trip. You cannot state as a fact though that it was 5 times stronger. We are only human we cannot judge this to that accuracy. slammin007 (yearnin' ta learn) 06/10/05 02:27 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

Has anyone ever tried soaking / mixing shroom powder with some vodka or something? Since alkaloids are also soluble in alcohol, and alcohol is readily absorbed in the stomach and intestine then shouldn't we see similar effects to the acid solution?, That is if the acid solution is what is responsible.

HeavyToilet (The Heaviest Of Them All) 06/10/05 02:50 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

Where does he say that he repeated Wiccan Seeker's experiment?

I only see him saying he took the mushrooms with ascorbic acid, or vitamin C. I don't see any mention of lemon juice, or even that he crushed up the mushrooms.

Evan (Hyperspace) 06/10/05 02:53 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

Both Wiccan Seeker and Annom used water and Ascorbic acid. Neither used lemon juice..maybe you were reading Wiccan Seeker's friends trip report that Wiccan Seeker posted.

HeavyToilet (The Heaviest Of Them All) 06/10/05 02:56 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

Huh.

Well that's weird. I wonder.

HeavyToilet (The Heaviest Of Them All) 06/10/05 03:06 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

Well, that certainly seemed to have thrown a wrench into a non-placebo explanation.

Maybe Annom did something slightly different than Wiccan Seeker. I guess we'll find out sooner or later. Evan (Hyperspace) 06/10/05 03:22 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

Yes I am eager to hear Annom's full report.

Staypuft (Floyd Fanatic) 06/10/05 03:34 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

I may be able to try this on saturday night with about a gram of cubs. Took about a gram last weekend with subtle effects, may been slight less than a gram. My scale was crapping out on me:(

Dimmy (A wide-eyed explorer) 06/10/05 03:48 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute] don't under estimate the power of placebo. a few friends and i once bought what we thought to be a vile of lsd, later that night several people dropped some of the suppossed acid and many claimed to have felt lite/threshold effects. it was suspected that it might just be very weak in potency. upon later dosing the lsd turned out to be completely bunk. i personally ingested about 15-20 drops with absolutly no result where several people at an earlier time clamed to feel lite effects. the power of placebo is really very strong and is not to be dismissed. hot48yearolds (Connoisseur of Hallucination) 06/10/05 04:00 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

It seems to me that the lemon/lime juices are only digesting the mushrooms so that when they get into the stomach it all goes into the blood stream at once. This creates a stronger, shorter trip.

Dimmy (A wide-eyed explorer) 06/10/05 04:05 AM Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

Quote: hot48yearolds said: It seems to me that the lemon/lime juices are only digesting the mushrooms so that when they get into the stomach it all goes into the blood stream at once. This creates a stronger, shorter trip.

replace "digesting" with "extracting psilocybin from" and i agree.

JackTackle (pinning mycologist) 06/10/05 04:24 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

exactly

WillieTomg (...is hated by everyone (for some reason.)) 06/10/05 04:40 AM

Re: Theories for how this potentiation works

Well, I've seen some reports, and that's enough testing for me. All that remains is to test it out myself. Some questions though...

)Are people letting the shrooms soak in the juice, or are they just mixing them and taking it down as fast as they can?

)Are there any particular recomendations for a dose? When a shroomery mod tells me to stay away from a 2 gram dose then I get a little unsure of how to proceed...

)I've always liked how shrooms distort time to make it seem like the trip lasts a lot longer than it really does. When you dose this way does the shorter duration (for lemon juice anyway) acutally SEEM shorter at the time, or will the experience be rewarding enough by itself that I won't care? )Is there a particular ratio of juice to shroom powder that pepole like best? I'd rather not drink a pint of raw lemon juice if I could at all avoid it.

JackTackle (pinning mycologist) 06/10/05 04:46 AM

Re: Theories for how this potentiation works what i've seen is people using about 1 or 2 fluid oz (double shot) of pure lemon/lime juice and ~1 gram let the powder soak for a few minutes then slam it

WillieTomg (...is hated by everyone (for some reason.)) 06/10/05 04:51 AM

Re: Theories for how this potentiation works

One last question:

I'd rather not go through a hardcore lvl 5 trip if I could at all avoid it. (unless I get a trip sitter between now and the weekend) Would members here advocate a lower dose in the range of 1g. I've never really broken through on shrooms without weed, which muddies your thoughts so that you tend to trip hard if you get in a thought loop. Advice anyone?

Underhillmaster (Mycology Enthusiast) 06/10/05 05:20 AM

Re: Theories for how this potentiation works

I would try 1/3 of your normal fun trip dosage. If it goes beyond your fun range, you should still be able to deal with it and will be able to verify how it works for you.

I am reading a lot of people talking about placebo effect. Anyone who tries this method now, will have some preconceptions going in. They will either be very skeptical or be somewhat tentative. As for the original post, I hadnt tripped for 4 months before I tried lemon/lime for the first time, and I was expecting a very near cranberry type high. It was a lot stronger than cranberry, and it was totally unexpected. The 'placebo' effect only really applies when the end result is near your preconceived ideas. That was the case for me. As for Wiccan, I really appreciate his getting the community involved, but I don't actually know anybody who posts here. I think he lives in Europe hehe, I live in Oklahoma.

As we get a larger body of experience to draw from, we might be able to isolate exactly whats happening, or that it only works for some people, or who knows. Let's try not to argue, but contribute opinions and observations for community research project.

Stonerguy (LNC smoketastic) 06/10/05 05:34 AM

Re: Theories for how this potentiation works

If someone had some equipment to test with it would be alot easier to figure out what is going on. Like get a shot with cranberry juice and a shot with lemon juice let mushrooms soak for 5 mins then test the amount of psilo present to see if the acidity affects how fast it is extracted. I dunno just shooting some ideas. yousuck () 06/10/05 05:58 AM

Re: Theories for how this potentiation works

I honestly dont think anyone here is going to figure out the exact cause of the potentation, unless their willing to get a couple test groups and perform a double blind study, documenting with detail and consistency, which many of the members apparently have a hard time doing. Speculation is just turning into symantics.

Hell, its probably a mix of biflavinoids, vitamin C, liquid extraction and acidity, but the fact remains that juices like cranberry and grapefruit have much more of these properties than mere vitamin C or lemon juice. It would simply be illogical if lemon juice or vitamin C out performed these fruit juices. If you want to hit all the possible areas, go with the fruit juices.

BTW, has anyone tried this with red wine? The scientific PDF report posted in the 'bioflavinoid' thread said this is just as effective as grapefruit.

Alex213 (Stranger) 06/10/05 08:08 AM

Re: Theories for how this potentiation works

Can someone do a blind study? Because I trust the "I took it and it was precisely 5 times stronger than a normal dose" reports about as far as I could throw King Kong.

Mix up 0.5, 1.0 and 1.5g and 2.0g of powdered mushrooms in lemon juice in different glasses, turn your back and have someone else hand a glass to you. If you can tell which glass you had 5 times out of 5 get back to us. Until then we're talking pure placebo. Wiccan_SeekerModerator (ex-addict since dec '02) 06/10/05 01:10 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

My, my, there are more people fighting the findings than doing the experimenting.

Also Wiccan_Seeker took .25 grams of mushrooms and said it felt like 1 gram. How does he know it didn't feel like .6 grams of mushrooms or .7?

Because of my 100 trips and 12 years of experience? Because there is a divide at the experiential 8-10mg area beyond which the effects can become overwhelming, and they did? Because I know the strength of said batch?

He seemed pretty excited throughout his trip diary.

Might this excitement be caused by actually tripping balls, like alleged?

You cannot state as a fact though that it was 5 times stronger. We are only human we cannot judge this to that accuracy.

I've stated 4-5x because that was as low as I could get my estimations. Humans with alot of experience in said dose range are better able to make the call than those theorizing. Might it have been placebo? Yes. Is this likely? Very unlikely.

People: let's not debunk this before it is properly tested. Almost every test in this thread was clearly positive, yet all of them are surrounded by posts claiming it is placebo.

Why couldn't Annom's response (he'll report later on he said) be a placebo downplaying of effects? It dissents after all from the majority of tests.

Let's actually test this, and from our own experience arrive at a better understanding. Let's not conclude that the observations were in error because we can't think up an explanation how it would work. That's how the world remained flat for hundreds of years.

Quote: BLIND TEST TO CONFIRM OR DENY THE ACID & LEMON HYPOTHESIS . 3 capsules of 1gr powdered Ascorbic Acid or Lemon Extract* 3 capsules of 1gr powdered Sugar 2 capsules of 0.25gr powdered Cubensis or other amount (loose powder) 2 identical containers/baggies . --the subject has an empty stomach of at least 3 hours without food or drink --the sugar & Ascorbic caps are put in a container each --the subject looks away and mingles them so he loses track of which is which --the subject, still looking away, opens one container, takes the three caps and slams them swiftly with 2 fl oz of water and walks off not looking at the containers left behind --the subject waits 5min, then slams the 2 mushroom caps with 1 fl oz of water --the subject trips and tries to assess whether he had potentiation (acid) or not (sugar) --afterwards he opens the second container and tastes the powder of the caps left behind to see if his assessment was correct . * For Lemon extract evaporate 2 fl oz lemon juice to dryness and spray both the lemon powder and the sugar powder with the essential oilsd from squeezing the lemon peels. This way both powders will reek of lemon, and taste of it when burping, keeping the test a blind. Hesperidin (the bioflavonoid involved) and citric acid will both survive evaporating the lemon juice to dryness.

Well, if we can get several people to do this we have our blind test If i can find the time I'll do it myself and hopefully get a friend to join me in testing. stefanModerator (work in progress) 06/10/05 01:11 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

Quote: Evan said:"The reason for the experiment was to test the hypothesis that acidity and acidity alone could cause such a potentiation. The outcome was a 5x increase in potency. There's a reason and proof."

Annom had a nice trip ( ) but didn't experiance any stronger effects. I'm pretty sure he didn't do anything wrong. good luck everyone with all the testing

Alex213 (Stranger) 06/10/05 06:43 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

My, my, there are more people fighting the findings than doing the experimenting

It's just that for as long as I can remember people have been insisting taking orange juice KILLS a trip, not increases it. It's still standard advice in Holland mushroom shops - drink orange juice to kill a trip.

Because of my 100 trips and 12 years of experience?

I don't know wiccan. I've tripped hundreds of times and if someone said "If you can't tell the difference between 0.25g and 1g five times in a row we'll take your house away"...I'm not sure it's a bet I'd take. Sometimes I take very high doses and hardly trip at all, on others I've taken a small dose and tripped balls. Your setting and mood have a massive effect on how hard you percieve a trip.

I'm all for testing. But it has to be testing blind. Reading a report that lemon juice makes you trip 5 times harder and then on your next trip drinking lemon juice and thinking it was 5 times harder too isn't evidence of anything but placebo.

WillieTomg (...is hated by everyone (for some reason.)) 06/10/05 06:58 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

I'd pay more attention to the people who are reporting breaking through on 1.5 grams rather than Wiccan's low dose experiments. I'll try to test it myself this weekend if I get the chance. The last few times I tripped I ate 3.5g, and for some reason I didn't feel much beyond a lvl 2 or 3.

Alex213 (Stranger) 06/10/05 07:04 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

It's all so subjective tho isn't it. A level 2 or 3 trip - it's purely subjective. The difference between 2 grams and 4 grams is purely subjective. Would anyone here bet $10,000 they could tell the difference 10 times out of 10 between 2 and 4 grams in a blind test? Because I'd take a peice of that action any day.

Nashbar (just strange.... on drugs) 06/10/05 07:24 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

Quote: Alex213 said: It's all so subjective tho isn't it. A level 2 or 3 trip - it's purely subjective. The difference between 2 grams and 4 grams is purely subjective. Would anyone here bet $10,000 they could tell the difference 10 times out of 10 between 2 and 4 grams in a blind test? Because I'd take a peice of that action any day.

are you serious? there's plenty of people around here with hundreds of trips under their belts. 2g to 4g is a big difference. 10/10 wouldn't really be difficult

IgnatiusJReilly (Medievalist) 06/10/05 07:27 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

I'm confident I could tell the difference. The subjective feeling is based expontentially on how much one ingests. 4 grams is lightyears beyond 2 grams.

Manninee (Psilence Is Golden) 06/10/05 07:29 PM Re: slapped together theory #1

Note to cornoir - citric acid plays an important part in human metabolism, not acetic acid (otherwise we'd smell of vinegar). The citric acid is derived as part of the metabolism of glucose (the Krebs cycle).

Alex213 (Stranger) 06/10/05 09:17 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

The subjective feeling is based expontentially on how much one ingests

Nah, I've tripped harder on 2 grams than I have on 5. Your mood and setting play a big part. sublime40oz (Traveler) 06/10/05 09:18 PM

Re: slapped together theory #1

I will be joining in this experiment tonight or tomorrow night. I expect no discernible increase in the intensity of the trip. It just sounds preposterous to me, so therefore if I have a noticeably stronger trip it will not be placebo. cornoir (Stranger) 07/10/05 12:10 AM

Re: slapped together theory #1

Acetic acid is used in the human body, just not enough to smell. "Biochemistry Acetic acid, when complexed with coenzyme A, is central to the metabolism and biosynthetic processes of almost all forms of life. It results naturally from the action of certain bacteria in foods or liquids containing sugars or ethanol.

As an example of its importance in biology, acetic acid is produced in the human body after the consumption of alcoholic beverages. The ethanol is first converted into acetaldehyde, which is then converted into acetic acid by the enzyme acetaldehyde dehydrogenase and converted further to acetyl-CoA by acetate-CoA ligase." - Wiki source

Citric acid from Wiki; "The citric acid cycle (also known as the tricarboxylic acid cycle, the TCA cycle, or the Krebs cycle) is a series of chemical reactions of central importance in all living cells that utilize oxygen as part of cellular respiration. In these aerobic organisms, the citric acid cycle is a metabolic pathway that forms part of the break down of carbohydrates, fats and proteins into carbon dioxide and water in order to generate energy. It is the second of three metabolic pathways that are involved in fuel molecule catabolism and ATP production, the other two being glycolysis and oxidative phosphorylation.

The citric acid cycle also provides precursors for many compounds such as certain amino acids, and some of its reactions are therefore important even in cells performing fermentation."

So citric acid is a part of a cycle in humans as well as acetic acid.

I mention vinegar (for those crazy enough to try this) as it tend to have a pH lower than any fruit drinks mentioned 2-3 range, with more like 2.2 - 2.5 for balsamic vinegar.

So vinegar with a lower pH will keep the Psilocin from breaking down quickly as I absorb them in liquid suspension form. Whether it being an acetic acid versus a citric acid, it might help in some small way or not compared with citric acid bearing drinks.

I will try and do a blind test on some guinea pigs I have waiting to see if it does anything to them, but it will take a month or so for me mushy to grow up. I remember someone mentioned that they had no tastebuds anymore, perhaps that person could volunteer to do a simple test with vinegar to have an objective view.

MrMolotov (Stranger) 07/10/05 01:12 AM

Re: slapped together theory #1

OK I Have decided to do a 1oz shot with 1 gram of good shrooms ground finely if i can get my friend to trip sit for me. I have been trying to convince myself an have pretty much done so. that it will not potentate the trip my friend has agreed to try with a .25 gram with lemon juice i haven't told him it makes it stronger i just told him i only have .25 gram to spare. my plan will hopefully come to fruition sat night/afternoon.

Underhillmaster (Mycology Enthusiast) 07/10/05 02:07 AM

Re: slapped together theory #1

Well, even a placebo that magnifies the effects 3x-5x would be of some benefit. Especially if it works for a large percentage of people. I still think it works though. For those that truly doubt, try taking your normal 'fun' dose (level 3?) using this method and then post your experience richardcypher101 (Mycophagous) 07/10/05 02:54 AM

Re: slapped together theory #1

I'll probably be trying this ina week or two most deff. the_psychonaut (psychonaut) 07/10/05 03:45 AM

Re: slapped together theory #1 hmmmmmmmm.... should i try 5gs without the cranberry juice, or about 2, with it? im looking for full ego loss, lvl5. ive been working up to this point for a long time, and now i cant decide. hot48yearolds (Connoisseur of Hallucination) 07/10/05 03:48 AM

Re: slapped together theory #1 if you cant decide than id say you might not be ready. the_psychonaut (psychonaut) 07/10/05 03:55 AM

Re: slapped together theory #1 well, i know, that i can handle 5 grams, but i dont know if id be able to handle the 2grams with the cranberry. perhaps i should try the cranberry juice another time?

HeavyToilet (The Heaviest Of Them All) 07/10/05 03:56 AM

Re: slapped together theory #1

Do a couple grams with lemon juice. Why even try the cranberry juice when the lemon juice is supposed to be stronger?

I'd try it with an eighth.

Shnezbit (Psycho-naught) 07/10/05 04:09 AM Re: slapped together theory #1 i swig down powdered shrooms with cranberry juice all the time and it adds no difference as far as i can tell.

MrMolotov (Stranger) 07/10/05 05:44 AM

Re: slapped together theory #1

Heh 5 grams is a lot of fun if your mentally and spiritiually ready i topok 6 one time for my 3rd trip last year at my moms had a total blast best experience on shrooms. My biggest dose was 9.5-10ish and it was absolutely intense great till my friend made me go laydown and i freaked out bigtime. they trip kicked my ass in the end. just make sure your good and ready and have a good friend or 2 guide you through it.

Dimmy (A wide-eyed explorer) 07/10/05 05:46 AM

Re: slapped together theory #1 do 5 grams with the lemon juice. if your serious about getting to level 5 why not just jump in as far as u can and get a REAL level 5. cornoir (Stranger) 07/10/05 05:52 AM

Re: slapped together theory #1

Okay I am including a lot of info with sources and links as best as I could to where I found this data. basically it point to the thought that acetic acid would be the BEST at creating a fast acting more concentrated Psilocin kick to the mind. It will not increase the potency technically, more like CONVERT more Psilocybin to Psilocin and suspend it in a more stable medium for a user's consumption.

The pH of lemon juice(2) is lower than most vinegars(3), but still both lower than Psilocybin (5.2) [Psilocin pH = ???, anyone?].

No none of this matters if no one can swallow the stuff right? The acetic acid is present in vinegar, so I hope to find a palatable and inexpensive vinegar to try upon my test group, since it will be easier to get them to drink Cranberry or even lemon juice before vinegar. Make sure to notice the Psilocin content from the acetic solution (table 2) vs. the methanol solution for P. cubensis = Double!!! **************************************************************** Extraction and analysis of indole derivatives from fungal biomass Journal of Basic Microbiology Vol 34, 1994; 17-22 by Jochen Gartz "The abstract says it, if you are planning to extract the alkaloids from either dries and pulverisized fruiting bodies or from mycelium it is best to use pure methanol. Superior to aqueous solutions of alcohols (which is wet alcohol, the one you are likely to have!) is dilute acetic acid which means simple vinegar (better: vinegar essence diluted with same amount of water) which is quite nice because there is no problem obtaining it. The problem with wet alcohol is that the enzymes which dephosphorylise Psilocybin to the instable Psilocin are also extracted from the biomass. This also occures with acetic acid but to a smaller amount and does not occure at all with pure methanol (ethanol?)."

Table 1 #Amount of indole alkaloids in fruiting bodies of different species by using pure methanol as solvent (%, dry weight).

Species Psilocybin Psilocin Baeocystin P. semilanceata 0.98 - 0.34 P. bohemica 0.85 0.02 0.04 P. bohemica(cultivated) 0.93 0.04 0.02 P. cubensis 0.63 0.11 0.02 G. purpuratus 0.34 0.29 0.05 I. aeruginacens 0.40 - 0.21 P. cyanescens 0.32 0.51 0.02

Table 2 #Concentraction of alkaloids by using acetic acid for extraction of the dried mushrooms (%, dry weight).

Species Psilocybin Psilocin Baeocystin P. semilanceata 0.97 0.15 0.11 P. bohemica 0.60 0.21 - P. bohemica (cultivated) 0.65 0.28 - P. cubensis 0.45 0.25 - G. purpuratus 0.24 0.35 0.01 I. aeruginacens 0.32 0.05 0.15 P. cyanescens 0.20 0.61 -

Table 3 #Results of the mushroom extraction of six species using aqueous mixtures of methanol and ethanol (%, dry weight).

Species Psilocybin Psilocin Baeocystin P. semilanceata 0.80 0.15 0.11 P. bohemica 0.60 0.21 - P. bohemica (cultivated) 0.65 0.28 - P. cubensis 0.45 0.25 - G. purpuratus 0.24 0.35 0.01 I. aeruginacens 0.32 0.05 0.15 P. cyanescens 0.20 0.61 -

By using the new solvent mixtures containing ethanol and methanol for extraction it was found that more psilocin could be detected in extracts of every species but always smaller amounts of psilocybin than with pure methanol (Table 3).

Additionally, a high activity of enzymes of the phosphatase type could be detected in these aqueous solutions from all species. In contrast to these results only the extracts of P. cubensis and P. cyanescens showed a significant enzymatic activity b y using acetic acid as solvent. In these cases psilocybin was completely dephosphorylated to psilocin by heating the acid extracts and no baeocystin could be detected in P. cyanescens." ------Shroomery Post I found concerning thoughts on vinegar powdered shroom mixes from 9/03 http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/1911077 ------pH table listing some of our test drinks and other common foods/drinks pH balance of Acids & Alkalines all around ------4.3 tomatoes (but healthy in moderation); 3.5 orange juice; 3 soda (all types & brands) ...... TOO ACIDIC 3 Alcohol (most types & brands) *more details later 3 vinegar; 2 lemon juice; 1 battery acid; ACIDS are Low Ph numbers (2....) ------THE MUSHROOM ENTHEOGEN The Measure of the Mushroom by C. B. Gold Taken from PM&E Volume Five

.."I use an acetic acid-water extraction solution to help extract the psilocin and psilocybin more completely and also, to lower the pH so that the active tryptamines will be more stable. Without the acetic acid the solution will quickly react with atmospheric oxygen in the presence of endogenous enzymes to form a strong blue product and in the process destroy some of the psilocybin/psilocin. Also, the color blue itself will interfere with the test results, since the reaction yields a blue or purple color for tryptamines. Specifically, psilocin yields a brown-deep blue and psilocybin a yellow-green and purple color. In contrast, LSD will react with DMAB to form a blue- purple color.(l7)

Apparently, others have also found that a dilute acetic acid solution is an excellent solvent for both psilocin and psilocybin. Not only does the solution completely extract both tryptamines but the solution extracts other interfering substances to a lesser degree. Casale also notes that if one heats the extraction solution of dilute acetic acid to 70 degrees centigrade for ten minutes, then the psilocybin is completely converted by dephosphorylation to psilocin.(5)

I have found on my own that heating the acetic acid solution eliminated whatever bluing reaction was occurring in the enzyme denaturing environment of the low pH extraction solution. That psilocybin is converted to psilocin is a plus, too."

MrMolotov (Stranger) 07/10/05 06:05 AM

Re: slapped together theory #1

Now that would be a crazy dose if it was potentiated by 5x it would be like taking 25 grams absolute insanity if you ask me. deficitism (woo woo) 07/10/05 11:59 AM

Re: slapped together theory #1

Well I did it. The lemonade tek I came up with WORKS. I received the same EXACT high level trip as my previous report with lemon juice. Here is what I did:

1- 1.5 Grams of PC Amazon was ground up to a very fine powder. 2- 30 ML of pure squeezed lemon juice was put into a glass 3- The mush powder was placed into a mason jar and the lemon juice was added to the mix. 4- The jar was sealed and shaken vigorously 5- The jar was left overnight and was shaken the next day 3-4 times. 6- The above step was repeated every day for 3 days. 7- The mush mix was filtered through a coffee filter 8- The resulting lemon juice was kept refrigerated 9- The mush material was soaked in a mason jar with 20 ML distilled h20 and shaken every hour or so for about 12 hours. (I used the water to get the remaining alkaloids out of the mush mix since the actives in mushrooms are water soluble.) 10- The mush was then filtered out with a coffee filter and discarded. Keeping the resulting water solution. 11- The water mix and the lemon mix were mixed together to create a lemonade shot. 12- The 50 ML of solution was placed in an airplane alcohol bottle. Check out my previous report on this thread. I can tell you that these results were ABSOLUTELY reproduced to the T. Fast come on, powerful peak, amazing visuals. This was a great extraction and I have already started to make more doses this way. I suck at posting specifics but feel free to PM me or IM me any questions you may have. (My AIM name is in my profile) deficitism (woo woo) 07/10/05 12:01 PM

Re: slapped together theory #1

Let me add that my next concoction will be without the water in the mix. Just pure lemon juice.

HeavyToilet (The Heaviest Of Them All) 07/10/05 07:19 PM

Re: slapped together theory #1

I wonder what would happen if the lemon juice was heated first.

Like making tea, only with lemon juice. I've heard heat converts psilocybin into psilocin (I have no sources on this and am not even sure if it's true). Maybe it would be even more effective.

8BitCommando (Stranger) 07/10/05 09:35 PM

Re: slapped together theory #1

I've been interested in this thread. I'm skeptical, but the worst that can happen is a normal trip. I gathered a large load of copes and cubes yesterday, and I'll be taking them out of the dehydrator and grinding them into powder shortly. I'm going to try this and see what happens. cornoir (Stranger) 07/10/05 10:05 PM

Re: slapped together theory #1

"Casale also notes that if one heats the extraction solution of dilute acetic acid to 70 degrees centigrade for ten minutes, then the psilocybin is completely converted by dephosphorylation to psilocin.(5)"

C.B. Gold mentions 70 degrees for 10 minutes in his extraction method. The melting and boiling point of acetic acid being in the over 150 degree F range. Here is some info on citric acid concerning crystal formation and temperature.

All of these are high temp chemical reactions which more than likely will not affect our practical tests, what is important is keeping the temp under the level at which it starts to detrimentally afect the Psilocin and Psilocybin. So 70 degrees F a "safe" temp, maybe.

Sadly the only real scientific testing is done at the Drug Agencies and I don't think we want to get too chummy with them.

Blowmonkey (Midget Porn) 08/10/05 12:02 AM

Re: slapped together theory #1

I don't know if these things have been mentioned already and frankly, I don't really care.. I've read up till half of the thread and that's enough for me.

Anyways, flavonoids will not have an effect on the trip because the ones that have been mentioned (in grapefruit juice) affect p450 CYP3A4 enzymes, psilocybin/psilocin does not interact with these enzymes at all, rather, it get's to deal with MAO.

And there is no sign of MAO inhibition because well, just try it out yourself with some amphetamines. Nothing will happen.

I don't think it has got to do much with the ph of the lemon juice, because well, I've never got potentiation from drinking coca cola with my mushrooms, same low ph..

And lastly, a placebo is a powerful thing, people that claim they have not been affected by it because "they do not think so", do not know what a placebo actually means, I suspect.. Ever heard of the experimenters effect, you know, when someone get's (un-consciously) influenced by the information given..? Well, IMO that's happening right here.

SourceLimit (Passive-Aggressive) 08/10/05 07:03 AM

Re: slapped together theory #1 Oh, well thanks for the definition of placebo. If you did take the time to continue reading the entire thread, before making a comment (of which is sarcastic and egotistical) such as you have, you would have seen that it very well may be sound. Basically, a pre-extraction of the psilocybin may be taking place (or IS taking place in the case of letting it sit). This may allow a more rapid absorption (and more complete), and therefor cause effects to come on faster and more pronounced for a shorter duration.

Manninee (Psilence Is Golden) 08/10/05 11:52 AM

Re: slapped together theory #1

Tryptamines interact with both MAO inhibitors AND enzymes of the cytochrome oxidase system (CYP2A6 - partial agonism noted for tryptamine). Source : http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/304/2/539 Different flavonoids have both inhibitory as well as stimulatory effects across the whole spectrum of cytochrome P450 (CYP) enzymes, so cannot be written off at all.

The real enzyme of interest may actually be the ubiquitous Alkaline Phosphatase, which is responsible for dephosphorylation of psilocybin to psilocin. It appears that this is blocked by... ascorbic acid! : http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query...p;dopt=Abstract This may explain prolongation.

Out of interest, I can always tell when psilocybin is being switched over to psilocin by my body enzymes because of the change in the nature of the trip and a rise in body temperature - usually about 1-2 hours in at peak time! Dephosphorylation of the chemical ATP is the main source of energy and heat in the body, and I was wondering if this may be related to the temperature rise associated with dephosphorylation of psilocybin to psilocin? Does anyone else experience this too?

Staypuft (Floyd Fanatic) 08/10/05 06:28 PM

Re: slapped together theory #1 planning on doing this tonight with my girl friend. How long should i let the lemon juice sit with the powderized shrooms?

Evan (Hyperspace) 08/10/05 07:10 PM Re: slapped together theory #1

Somebody above mentioned heating the lemon juice.

When extracting psilocybin it can be converted to psilocin by heating it when it is mixed with the acid. The psilocybin loses its phosphorous attachment to become psilocin. Although the extraction I read used acetic acid, I think ascorbic acid would have similar results. I'm not sure what the effects of drinking psilocin instead of psilocybin are.

Blowmonkey (Midget Porn) 08/10/05 07:17 PM

Re: slapped together theory #1

Quote: SourceLimit said: Oh, well thanks for the definition of placebo. If you did take the time to continue reading the entire thread, before making a comment (of which is sarcastic and egotistical) such as you have, you would have seen that it very well may be sound.

I'm sorry but my comment was neither "egotistical" or "sarcastic", I'm trying to refute some of the claims made, I do not see how this is egotistical or sarcastic, rather, it just offers another view. Most of the people here (from what I've read) do not question this experiment, but take it for what it is and that's not wrong or anything, believe what you want to believe, but that doesn't mean I'm going to be in the same camp. And I did not offer a definition of placebo, it was the definition of the "experimenters effect"..

Maninnee, that's an interesting article, I didn't know that. Still, grapefruit juice is not lemon juice and CYP2D6 is not CYP3A4. I don't have much faith in the flavonoids theory, but that's me.

Re the ascorbic acid. That's also in coca cola. Never noticed potentiation, prolongation or a difference in onset when I ate my powdered shrooms with big chugs of coca cola.

Quote: Basically, a pre-extraction of the psilocybin may be taking place (or IS taking place in the case of letting it sit). This may allow a more rapid absorption (and more complete), and therefor cause effects to come on faster and more pronounced for a shorter duration.

Now this is plausible (and I'm very sorry if this was the conclusion in the part of the thread I haven't read), but essentially it's the same as a mushroom tea. Never heard people claim that a tea is 3-5 times stronger.

I'm still pretty skeptical of this all, but I'm not saying this all can NOT be true. I'm just skeptical of it and haven't seen rock solid evidence, such as double blind tests or theories without any flaws in it etc..

And wasn't it psilocin which crosses the BBB and not psilocybin? In that case you aren't able to tell psilocybin from psilocin because it's psilocin which is causing the effects. But I'm not sure on that, it's what I've learned a long time ago..

HeavyToilet (The Heaviest Of Them All) 08/10/05 07:42 PM

Re: slapped together theory #1

Yeah I don't think psilocybin actually gets to the brain.

WillieTomg (...is hated by everyone (for some reason.)) 08/10/05 08:35 PM

Re: slapped together theory #1

Alright, I have roughly 3.5g of shrooms right now, and will weigh out and dose 1.5g with a friend tonight trying out this method.

Will report. Let's roll.

Underhillmaster (Mycology Enthusiast) 08/10/05 08:41 PM

Re: slapped together theory #1

Staypuft, just let your powder sit in your juice for 5minutes or less and you should be good. All the opinions of why you are skeptical are well and good, but let's get some more people trying it if possible. After going through the posts, about 9 out of 10 are reporting considerably magnified effects. That warrants more research be done. I picked some this week, so I should have some second hand reports after this weekend. I am still leaning toward my working theory though, which is basically a combination of factors are all helping. As we are only 2 weeks into this forum, I imagine we should have a larger knowledge base to work from in a few months. Keep up the exchange of ideas and the experimentation.

Wiccan_SeekerModerator (ex-addict since dec '02) 08/10/05 10:50 PM Re: slapped together theory #1

Quote: Re the ascorbic acid. That's also in coca cola. Never noticed potentiation, prolongation or a difference in onset when I ate my powdered shrooms with big chugs of coca cola.

Cola is far, far less acidic than lemon juice or my 5% ascorbic acid solution. Just because a bunch of people shout it can't possibly be acidity does by itself not mean they are right

We see people reporting potentiation with various "strong" acidities (Cranberry, Lemon/Lime, 5% Ascorbic acid) but far less acidic juices (such as orange, which varies a great deal) provoke ambiguous results.

Quote: How long should i let the lemon juice sit with the powderized shrooms?

I recommend you to powder the mushrooms and create doses of 1-2 fluid ounce pure lemon juice, and soaking your dried mushroom powder (without lumps) in there for 15 minutes.

Your stomachs HAVE TO BE EMPTY. fast at least 3 hours, preferably more. My friend kinda did this and reported 3-4x potency.

MrMolotov (Stranger) 09/10/05 01:15 AM

Re: slapped together theory #1

Just found my coffee grinder and have been grinding my 3.4 grams for about 20 mins now heh very fine will reweigh my dose out shortly before i dose.

WillieTomg (...is hated by everyone (for some reason.)) 09/10/05 01:46 AM

Re: slapped together theory #1

Well, I had to have a few delicious mouthfuls of stuffing (remnants of a delicious family dinner) but I'm not dosing for another hour and a half at the soonest, and it was only a few forkfuls of simple starch.

The bag weighed in at 4.5 grams, so I guess I didn't pay too much after all. I'm splitting it down the middle with a friend. For science! Toboggan (I Am My Own Savior) 09/10/05 03:46 AM

An idea for those who had positive results

I haven't read the entire thread yet so I'm sorry if I repeat something thats already been said. I was thinking that if pH is resposible for the possible potentiation then perhaps taking an antacid could weaken this effect.

Maybe someone who has experimented with this could try swallowing some Tums or something before taking the shot and see if there is any observable difference.

This is a great thread and I encourage everybody who participating in this experiment to keep it up!

WillieTomg (...is hated by everyone (for some reason.)) 09/10/05 09:35 AM

Re: An idea for those who had positive results

Well, that was a fun shrooming night. I'm a little strung out at the moment, so I'll give a more detailed report when I'm more coherent and in a state to make a coherent report on things. I'll gladly give the incoherent one right now though:

I felt nothing that a 2g dose wouldn't give me anyway. The times of the effects were consistent with what were reported by others (fast comeup, great peak, quick comedown) but I didn't see any visuals worth remembering or repeating. I did have a nice trip inside my own head regarding the whole big picture and personal realities and what have you, but I've felt as much sitting in a Sociology class. Luckily I had soemthing to kick off the experience. After that came a fantastic equivalent of a POWERFUL fucking herbal ecstasy roll. Tons of fun riding around in a car with friends. I went in with an open mind, and I didn't feel anything out of the ordinary.

I'd get more detailed, but I gotta sleep...

Myconut (Doper Again) 09/10/05 01:19 PM

Re: An idea for those who had positive results

Just thought I would point out(I havent touched shrooms, grew shrooms, ate shrooms or anything in a few years so I might be a little off... plus I didnt read the entire thread)

But yeah, I dont think antacids would be a good way to test anything since everything I DID actually read here seems to suggest that the conversion is taking place before actually taking the lemon juice shots, so if that were true then eating some tums would in no way affect the chemical changes that had already taken place before you ever consumed the shot.

Terantula (Spider) 09/10/05 04:01 PM

Re: An idea for those who had positive results

Interesting... I wouldnt think takign an antacid would aid in any way the digestion of the mushroom meat, but I wouldnt think it would have any kind of effect upon the absorbtion of psilocybin/cin... Does it?

MrMolotov (Stranger) 09/10/05 10:58 PM

Re: An idea for those who had positive results

Its an alkaline and could possibly oxidize the psilocin because it is unstable in alkaline solutions.

OK as for my trip with the lemon juice method i took 2 home grown lemons ( juiced and strained the pulp and had about 8 oz of juice(it was a big lemon) I had 2 friends besides myself one friends said that my shrooms were kind of old and pulled out 3 grams of some from his fresh batch. i decided that i was ready for whatever the mushroom threw at me. i ground 2 grams in a coffee grinder until very very fine and soaked 1 gram in 1 oz lemon juice in each shot glass i took 2 shots right after the other after letting the solutions steep for 15 Min's my friend took 1 gram the same way. i had not eaten in about 4.5 hours my friend about 2 about 20 Min's after ingestion i noticed that the walls had begun to breathe and that the ceiling and carpets were beginning to move. My friend was laughing a lot and said he noticed a few nice visuals in the blanket on the couch. after an hour i began to trip very very hard like i had taken 6 or 7 grams my friend was acting like he had 2 or 3 grams. We decided to go and walk around a big construction site near to my house. we played and were mesmerized by the ground which was all uniform with the tractor treads i pulled a fire extinguisher and discharged it up into the air until it was empty the cloud it formed was absolutely amazing it roiled around the air and spread out along the ground the whole thing was so beautiful we stayed till the last traces had disappeared we went o the store and got some drinks and snacks. I bought a 20 oz milk, a bag of bugles and a butter finger. i ate my food and felt immensely better my minor nausea went away and when we left and began to walk back to my house i began to go nuts things just got really really weird and i freaked out for a few Min's until i calmed myself down i kept looking at my hands and then saw them warp and distort and i would be saying oh my god my hands are melting and got freaked out which is unusual for me to be freaked out by looking at my hands melt. we returned to my house where we tried to watch fight club but it was too strange for my friend. so we listened to some bob Marley and it really calmed everyone down. i last remember looking at the clock saying it was 3:25 i ingested them at 9:45. i left out some very very personal thought i had last night and do not want to discuss here. it was a wild ride i would have to say it was a mid to high level 4 trip i woke up this morning absolutely glowing. my friend said he felt I was a low to middle level 3 trip. for me and my friend who i didnt tell that it made them stronger it also worked. so who knows there might have been a placebo factor present for me but i sure had an absolute blast. and the taste was much better compared to jsut munching them down.

AnnomModerator () 10/10/05 12:57 AM

Re: An idea for those who had positive results

Hey all, good to see this still going!

My computer with the notes of my experiment crashed(CPU or motherboard is not working anymore) a few days ago and that's why I was not online and haven't posted my full report yet.

I hope to post it as soon as possible. Just to let you know.

Evan (Hyperspace) 10/10/05 01:10 AM

Re: An idea for those who had positive results

Friend of mine tried .8 grams in about a cup full of pure lemon juice. powdered his mushrooms and let them soak for 20 minutes.

Said it felt like it was 2 times stronger. What is interesting is that he was able to sleep 4 hours later.

Tradenmar (tnimrepeP) 10/10/05 01:27 AM

Re: Side effects deficitism do you think the 1cup lemon juice made it better then just a shot of lemon juice? why did you use so much?

SourceLimit (Passive-Aggressive) 10/10/05 07:20 AM

Re: Side effects

As it seems so far:

Acidity + Powdered Mushrooms + Time

Drink up

Land_Crab (Neurotic Psychonaut) 10/10/05 12:31 PM

Re: This hyphus (thread)

Wow, awesome that this is still going. I haven't read everything yet, but I have a question and a comment. (Sorry if I'm repeating something, but I don't have time to read all 11 pages that I missed.)

For everyone who have tried the juice shots: The effects hit you quicker--did they last as long as normal, though?

And to reiterate my hypothesis: The acidity in the juice causes a significant amount of the psilocybin in your cup to be converted to psilocin, which means that your body has little, if anything, to metabolize when you drink it. -"Pre- digested"

So three things contribute to the 'increased' effects: #1: The psilocin starts working its magic (entering the bloodstream and brain) faster and easier than usual, since there is a much smaller amount of psilocybin to be metabolized than usual.

#2: Your juice drink is highly concentrated. That is to say, a high ratio of mushroom-to-juice. Swallowing that in one or two gulps is a no-brainer for explaining why things happen faster.

#3: The mushrooms are powdered. Maximum surface area = minimum amount of time to digest it.

- Note: To make this work better, definitely agitate your shroomjuice for at least 5 minutes. Applying a low level of heat (like putting your juice jar in a hot water bath in a pot on the stove) will also help to extract the psilocin.

Of course, you could not drink the juice, strain out the mushroom goop, and repeat the process with as many grams as you wanted... yousuck () 10/10/05 05:58 PM Re: This hyphus (thread) coca cola doesnt have asorbic acid in it, it has phosphoric acid.

For those of you who are determined that it is the acidity of the solutions that are causing the potentation, why dont you try a few drops of 10% phosphoric acid or a drop of muriatic acid (HCl)?

And still, no one has tried red wine with it. Comon now, i dont want to have to be the lab rat with everything.

Lakefingers (Proto-over-under-neo-modern) 10/10/05 07:03 PM

Re: This hyphus (thread)

How about Jägermeister and melted marshmellows injected into the colonized cake?

Erik006 (Mushroom Cultivator) 11/10/05 12:29 AM

Re: This hyphus (thread)

2.2 grams of puerto rican cubensis was massed and ground up, then mixed with 200 ml of fresh lime juice, the mixture was stirred well over a period of 10 minutes, then ingested. The overall expierence was good, but somewhat weak for 2.2 grams of cubensis. The lime juice seemed to have no effect, however it works great for masking the taste of the mushrooms.

# What liquid are you using? Lime juice

# How much liquid did you drink the powder with? 200 ml

# Time to "first alert" (aka, "whoa, something's definitely going to happen") 15-20 minutes

# Time to onset of visual disturbance 40 minutes

# Time to peak (rough estimate) 120 minutes

# Time to first sign of diminishing effects 240 minutes

# Time to baseline (indiscernable effects)480 minutes

EonTan (bird) 11/10/05 01:53 AM

Re: This hyphus (thread)

Subjective experience for me.

Numbers are ratios and approximates!!!!! eating 50 mg feels like 10 waves of 1,2,2,10,10,10,5,5,3,2 mg each. 50 mg in a boiling water tea feels like 6 waves of 5, 15, 10,10,5,5mg each. 50 mg in a lemonjuice hot water extract feels like 4 waves of 5, 15,25,5 mg.

I thought this was common "FOLK knowledge", that had truth behind it. recondite (blah) 11/10/05 02:35 AM

Re: This hyphus (thread)

I'm gonna be another person who's gonna say that I'm gonna give this a shot and probably not going to report back. I haven't tripped for over a month now for some reason so I should be able to give a reasonable response to a lower dosage with the combined effect of this type of dosing. deficitism (woo woo) 11/10/05 03:10 AM

Re: slapped together theory #1

Quote: cornoir said: "Casale also notes that if one heats the extraction solution of dilute acetic acid to 70 degrees centigrade for ten minutes, then the psilocybin is completely converted by dephosphorylation to psilocin.(5)"

C.B. Gold mentions 70 degrees for 10 minutes in his extraction method. The melting and boiling point of acetic acid being in the over 150 degree F range.

Here is some info on citric acid concerning crystal formation and temperature.

"At room temperature, citric acid is a white crystalline powder. It can exist either in an anhydrous (water-free) form, or as a monohydrate that contains one water molecule for every molecule of citric acid. The anhydrous form crystallizes from hot water, while the monohydrate forms when citric acid is crystallized from cold water. The monohydrate can be converted to the anhydrous form by heating it above 74 °C" All of these are high temp chemical reactions which more than likely will not affect our practical tests, what is important is keeping the temp under the level at which it starts to detrimentally afect the Psilocin and Psilocybin. So 70 degrees F a "safe" temp, maybe.

Sadly the only real scientific testing is done at the Drug Agencies and I don't think we want to get too chummy with them.

So can this mean that lemon juice can be extracted to a powder? Or evaporated to this form? What would happen if mushrooms extracted in lemon juice was evaporated? barisk (Mind Explorer) 11/10/05 03:39 AM

Re: slapped together theory #1

I am too lazy to read all the post maybe someone said this before but... I found somewhere that: "The phosphoric acid is considered "dead weight" and does not contribute to the compound's psychedelic effects. Its presence does, however, stabilize the compound. Conversely, psilocin, which lacks this phosphoric radical, is extremely unstable and sensitive to oxidation." Albert Hoffman speaks about mushrooms and here is the link: http://www.stainblue.com/ah.html So maybe when it gets acidic.Acid bounds to compund and protects it from oxidation begining from the mouth like phosphoric radical does.And makes it stronger.Just a theory. barisk (Mind Explorer) 11/10/05 03:49 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... but you are missing some point.Oxidation starts from the mouth even on the air. here is my way thinking: "The phosphoric acid is considered "dead weight" and does not contribute to the compound's psychedelic effects. Its presence does, however, stabilize the compound. Conversely, psilocin, which lacks this phosphoric radical, is extremely unstable and sensitive to oxidation." Albert Hoffman speaks about mushrooms and here is the link: http://www.stainblue.com/ah.html So maybe when it gets acidic.Acid bounds to compund and protects it from oxidation begining from the mouth like phosphoric radical does.And makes it stronger. Just a theory. And maybe it's better to keep them not airtight container but maybe in an acidic solution that makes it salts.And then filter out the liquid and evaporate.And you have salts. Or you can keep them in vinegar or lemon juice.And put it in the fridge.And use it. I will try all of these. kingfish4200 (shroom diddy) 11/10/05 08:22 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... i love this post. I have followed from the start. Read every post from start to finish. Me and some bro's will try this as soon as i can get my grow under way. just lost 8 jars of millit to contams. Now wateing for new syringes to get here. mockeylock (head) 11/10/05 04:37 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

I tried about a gram, powdered, with a shot of lemon juice last night.

I haden't eaten in a couple hours, and I took it all down at once, but it was definately a very mild trip. Just barely started to get visuals--nothing close to what I get off an 1/8...

The shroom powder did sit in the lemon juice in the fridge for a few hours before i drank it.

I'm really sensitive to the psilicybin, too. I thought this might really whack me out, but it didn't.

Only other factors....I used lemon juice from a bottle not fresh.... and I was pretty tired when I ate them. I was dozing off during the trip so obviously it didn't hit me too hard...

QuetzalReturns (Stepping in to darkness) 12/10/05 01:40 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

I think there is some validity to the Grapefruit extracting method, I got about . 75 grams of dried mushrooms, and left them in the juice for about a day (8oz). I found a grapejuice cocktail drink, with ascorbic acid (vitamin C), which I think helped alot with the extraction. I downed about half, and within 30-40 mins, I was really starting to climb the shroom coaster. It wasn't really intense, but it was just a small reminder that there is a great potential here. I am going to try 1.5 grams in the juice over a period of 3 days. Then see how that goes. I will report back then.

Shmoppy McGillicuddy (Empathic Sociopath) 12/10/05 02:38 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

The other day I tried it with a small amount, 0.5g, dissolved in ~120mL of a 1.2% w/v ascorbic acid solution (1.5g acid) I let the mushorooms sit in solution for 30 minutes, with a good stirring every five minutes. All parts involved were at room temp, ~25C.

It hit about like a 1-1.25g dose, though I noticed no more effects at T+3.5 hours.

I think the stomach retention has a lot to do with it, as was stated earlier more acidic food items are retained in the stomach for longer, therefore exposed to both stomach acid and the acid you added to it longer, causing the alkaloid to be extracted from the mushroom tissue in the stomach until it finally goes into the intestine. At this point it gets absorbed in one big rush, instead of coming out of the fungal tissue over a longer period of time, like normal.

Economist (Stranger) 12/10/05 04:39 AM

Re: slapped together theory #1

I just wanted to ask Deficitism, when you tried your shroomy lemonade, was the experience more intense than usual?

I'm personally amazed the "lemonade tek" worked at all, and I can't wait to try shrooms that way, whether or not it was more intense. deficitism (woo woo) 12/10/05 12:34 PM

Re: slapped together theory #1

Quote: Economist said: I just wanted to ask Deficitism, when you tried your shroomy lemonade, was the experience more intense than usual? I'm personally amazed the "lemonade tek" worked at all, and I can't wait to try shrooms that way, whether or not it was more intense.

Yes it was. I consider myself to be a VERY experienced tripper and have found that this lemon juice method actually works. Trust me it was definitely more intense and shorter lasting. The visuals were incredibly powerful compared to my past 3.5 - 5 gram experiences with this strain. I highly recommend trying it.

Wiccan_SeekerModerator (ex-addict since dec '02) 12/10/05 02:42 PM

Re: slapped together theory #1

The saga continues ^_^

I was returning to baseline from a hefty MDMA session the other day at 10AM when suddenly was struck by a novel way in which this might work.

Some people here have had no noticable effects but then again many here have had overwhelmingly strong responses. Since I have seen it work for myself and chatted with a friend while he underwent a similar potentiation i'm going from there.

If you are, arms outstretched, resting your forehead against the wall for five minutes, while three-dimensional visuals fill the realm of your closed eyes and the wallpaper has inch-thick waves rolling over it, and you just took 0.25gr, something is out of the ordinary, at least for me.

I was suddenly struck by an idea that might well be the mechanism in which this works, I've called it the hydrophilic-isosmotic hypothesis

I've discovered several things about the major liquids observed:

1...Lemon Juice and 5% Ascorbic acid contain a LOT of ions and are in fact almost isosmotic, meaning isotonic with physiological saline. 5.52% Citric acid solution is isosmotic, Lemon juice contains 5-8%. A 5% ascorbic acid solution gave strong potentiation, while a 5.94% solution is isosmotic.

2...Dimethyltryptamines such as those of mushrooms are poorly watersoluble weak bases. The fruit acids are weak acids. Weak acids with weak bases give weak salt bonds. The way to decrease dissociation is to strongly lower the pH, as seen in the DMT extraction where the pH has to be driven far to either side for effective extraction.

3...Citric acid and Ascorbic acid form highly watersoluble salts that are well absorbed by the stomach, our primary location for absorption of watersolubles. Phosphoric acid (Psilocybin and cola drinks) forms highly watersoluble salts too, but phosphoric acid salts are very poorly absorbed: Disodium Phosphate for instance is in fact used in half-ounce doses as a nonabsorbable laxative without significantly raising serum sodium.

4...The stomach is best at dissolving watersolubles from an Isotonic/isosmotic solution, hence the isotonic sports drinks, and longer fasts increase the rapidity with which nutrients will be absorbed.

Sooo.. if you combine all this then you see that the most rapid absorption (and thus highest peak concentrations at the receptors) takes place from a near-isotonic solution that contains as much carboxylic acidity as possible, preferably as acidic as undiluted stomach juice and in small volume, which produces highly watersoluble and swiftly absorbable salts..

When 1.5gr Ascorbic acid was made into a 30ml solution and the mushrooms were soaked in there for 15min, the solution was near ideal: almost isotonic, small volume, pH 2. When it was taken on morning's empty stomach the stomach was best prepared for it too, being eager to take in nutrients because of a 10 hour fast. The results ought to be very impressive. And they were: approximately 5x potentiation, about the highest potentiation reported.

This explains the Ascorbic acid results (best at 5%, still good at 1.2%), it explains why Lemon juice would be effective in many cases and why Deficitism's acidic lemonade worked out. The solution has to be:

--Close to isotonic/isosmotic --Very acidic --Small in volume --Soaked for approx 15 minutes and it has to land on an empty stomach that has preferably not seen food or drink for hours.

1-2 fluid ounce of Cranberry or Lemon/Lime juice are the closest readily available solutions, 5.94% Ascorbic acid or 5.52% Citric acid or 3.9% Tartaric acid in demineralized/destilled water would be optimal.

I think I got it pretty much nailed with this one!

. cornoir (Stranger) 12/10/05 05:06 PM

Re: slapped together theory #1

Wiccan_seeker,

Any thoughts on heat (low) to help the process or magnify the results? WillieTomg (...is hated by everyone (for some reason.)) 12/10/05 07:18 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Quote: mockeylock said: I tried about a gram, powdered, with a shot of lemon juice last night.

I haden't eaten in a couple hours, and I took it all down at once, but it was definately a very mild trip. Just barely started to get visuals--nothing close to what I get off an 1/8...

The shroom powder did sit in the lemon juice in the fridge for a few hours before i drank it.

I'm really sensitive to the psilicybin, too. I thought this might really whack me out, but it didn't.

Only other factors....I used lemon juice from a bottle not fresh.... and I was pretty tired when I ate them. I was dozing off during the trip so obviously it didn't hit me too hard...

No, I used fresh lemons with a 2g dose, and didn't feel anything that 2g of mushrooms wouldn't account for (and actually felt only a mild effect even for the dose I took.) The friend I was with described it as the most powerful mushroom experience he's had, but I didn't feel a damn thing until I got to the peak and then decided to smoke a bowl out of sheer frustration.

This isn't to belittle the experiences of others, but I don't see what all the fuss is about now that I've tried it for myself.

Callampin (Psyco Myco) 12/10/05 07:59 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Is the quality of the juice of any importance? as if i wass to actually make the juice out of fresh fruit , or just buy a couple of liters int he supermarket? barisk (Mind Explorer) 12/10/05 10:23 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

The last biggest dosage I have taken is 10 gr. dried with maoi.It was really intense very close to dob just shorter duration and more enthogenic.It was 2 weeks ago. After reading this I decided to try this.I ate about 2 gr mixed with citric acid solution(artificial lemon juice).I just wait 20 sec or so.And I drink it. I sit back and listen music.I don't know when it starts but when I tought it past like 2 hours or so.It's only 40 minutes past.I can't believe my eyes.It was intense like taking 10 gr with maoi.I feel exactly the same onset with that combo. The floor the walls the trees every fucking object start to talk with me. see all the things rotating,floating but I experienced little hear hallucination. I will pause sometime of psychodelics cause they started to make me mad.Everything is so intense and clear thoughts are flying but I can't talk normally with the normal people.I acting funny when I am high.

EllemyshShade (Future Tree Pirate) 13/10/05 04:20 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

As soon as I have access to mushies again, I will give this a try.

Wiccan_SeekerModerator (ex-addict since dec '02) 13/10/05 05:05 AM

Re: slapped together theory #1

Quote: Any thoughts on heat (low) to help the process or magnify the results?

Any heating will likely be sooner detrimental than beneficial IMO.

One thing which will work however is warming it to about body temperature, because it frees the stomach of unwanted thermal effects that have to be sorted out before absorption. Isosmotic, body temperature.. make it super- easy on your stomach because I too believe the potentiation is solely due to faster/more efficient absorption.

Guerrilla0726 (Stranger) 13/10/05 08:40 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

What is the best way to powder up mushies?

Next time I trip i might just try and grind them up in the back but I don't want them to stick to the bag. The I'll put them into some OJ or cran juice or squeezed-lemon juice. hot48yearolds (Connoisseur of Hallucination) 13/10/05 10:28 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Well yesterday i finally got the weilii that i have been waiting for. So last night i put five medium sized weilii in a bottle of orange juice mixed with lemon juice and and one fresh one separately. With only 6 weilii total i tripped harder than i had ever preciously tripped (and i have eaten 14 caps before). I almost called my friend because i was tripping so hard, i just waited it out though and it was an overall amazing experience. I started to feel the come up only 5 minutes after chugging the juice, but i peaked about 2 hours after i drank (weird). I tripped really hard for about an hour and a half with only 6 mushrooms though and i think thats pretty wicked.

Staypuft (Floyd Fanatic) 13/10/05 10:36 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Tried this over the weekend. Powderized 1.2gr of mushrooms and mixed with a double shot of freshly squeezed Lime. Waited 5 minutes and then took the shot. This ended up perhaps being 2x more potent but not nearly to what a 1/8 of decent mushrooms will do to me. onz (GateKeeper) 14/10/05 06:44 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Great thread! great site, fist post so high everyone reading that took ages vandago (He who smokes bitches.) 14/10/05 07:22 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

How much would one want to mix with wet mushies. I'm downing 50 grams of wet pan subbs tonight and wonder how much lime juice should I add.

I figure throw them in a blender with some OJ ( usuually how I do it) and then squeeze a couple limes into the concoction and blend for about 5 minutes and chug.

swampthing (audioboy) 14/10/05 07:34 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

So my buddies and i tried it out... half an eigth in one lemon's juice...sitting for fifteen minutes or so. half an hour later a huuuge buzz was coming over us, in the head, chest, the arms very relaxing though to let it message me. anyhow it was the best time yet, thats all it works nicely (: sever (sir) 14/10/05 10:47 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

I had never heard of DSMO until now. very interesting stuff, could be useful. This is taken from Wikipedia:

"Its use in medicine dates from around 1963, when a University of Oregon Medical School team, headed by Stanley Jacob, discovered it could penetrate deeply through the skin and other membranes without damaging them, and had effects of its own or could 'carry' other compounds deep into a biological system. If you dip a finger into it, you'll notice its taste in your mouth after a few seconds." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyl_sulfoxide slammin007 (yearnin' ta learn) 15/10/05 09:32 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

OK, I was excited about this, although I've never felt any benefits from mixing shrooms in any way with any substance. I thought I'd give it a try.

I'd consider myself fairly experienced with shrooms, I've tripped about 100 times. I know what each level feels like and what to expect. I used 3 fresh limes and 1 gram of shrooms which I placed in the juice and blended with the braun mixer for about a minute. I placed the juice in the fridge and let it sit for an hour.

I didn't feel any effects stronger than a 1.0 gram usually gives me.

I also hadn't eaten for about 4 hours and hadn't done any drugs for 7 days prior.

So, I just thought I'd report, it didn't work for me. dingleberrysalad (experienced mind) 15/10/05 12:07 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Thanks for letting us know about this UnderHillMaster! I just tried it and IT WORKS!!! NO DOUBT ABOUT IT! A friend and I both took 2 grams of shrooms powderized in a weed grinder and let it sit in a glass of freshly squeezed lemon/lime juice. We used 1 lemon and 1 lime for each glass and let the shrooms soak for 5 minutes before drinking it. I knew something was going to happen in 15 minutes. 30 minutes and I was trippin hard! This shit hits you like a brick wall and the come up was very rough for me. All of that citric acid wasn't sitting well in my stomach and I felt like I was gonna hurl. I was laying next to my toilet with the lights off in my bathroom thinking "THANK GOD I DIDN'T USE 3.5 GRAMS!!!" I felt great 30 minutes later and was tripping balls. It felt about like a 3.5 - 4 grams trip with only 2 grams, but the trip only lasted 4 hours. Both me and my friend agreed that lemons and lime do indeed make you trip harder, no joke! I had a great time and would never have tripped that hard if I would have eaten them plain. Thanks again. onz (GateKeeper) 15/10/05 06:41 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... many posts of it not working only using LIME not lemon juice. try again, with lemon no lime

LazyCrash (Neo-Hippy Extremist) 16/10/05 05:10 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

I think the most efficient way would be to cut out the fruit altogether, and go with Wiccan's crushed tablets. Limes seem to be the worst, though.

Pink_buffalo2000 (I am the white rabbit) 16/10/05 08:17 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Is cranberry juice workin out for anybody? if so how long did you let the mushrooms soak? abaris (Stranger) 16/10/05 09:55 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

I tested the lemon juice theory in my own way. Soaked 3.1 grams in lemon juice concentrate for 10 minutes then seperated the juice from the mush and let sit for about four hours. The results were mind blowing, I posted a seperate thread on the experience titled Lemon Juice and Cubes bugi_bi (bogey_shroom) 17/10/05 12:40 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Quote: LazyCrash said: I think the most efficient way would be to cut out the fruit altogether, and go with Wiccan's crushed tablets.

Limes seem to be the worst, though.

lemons and limes were the original idea,and it worked! so far we cant tell what it is the best solution but dont cut lemon&lime out..

Underhillmaster (Mycology Enthusiast) 17/10/05 10:34 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

I haven't posted lately, but I have been able to try the lemon method out twice more since my last post. For me, it definitely makes shrooms way stronger than they used to be. Meaning all the times I had done them in my life without lemon. I am a true believer and I can see that a lot of others are seeing the light. For those that haven't had noticeable increases in effect, I am unsure as to why it doesn't work for you when it works for others. I think we are beyond any placebo effects here, but maybe your body chemistry has something to do with it. I really don't know. I have got 6 people to try the lemon meethod since my last post besides myself. 5 out of 6 reported incredibly profound experiences, with 1 not noticing any difference. I'm sure I will hear more stories as time passes. If you like your shrooms to be INTENSE, then this could be your method of choice. I know it is mine.

For an interesting sidestory, read my experiences of combining lemon/shrooms, salvia, and Shpongle. http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4814732/an/0/p age/0

PhatWhitey420 (The People's Champ) 17/10/05 07:45 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

I tried cyans and lemon juice the other night. I had six people in my apartment and we had an ounce of cyans and a bottle of lemon juice. We threw half an ounce of wet cyans and half a bottle of lemon juice into a blender and blender it up pretty well then drank it down.

IT FUCKING WORKS!!!

You can get twelve solid trips out of a WET! ounce.

This is truly amazing and I will never take shrooms any other way again.

I'm really amazed that it worked that night because we barely had any, I mean if we just split them and ate them, we probably would've had barely level 1 or level 2 trips. However everyone seemed to be having three to four hour peaks in the level 4 area. It was insanity. I highly recommend this method.

Make sure to let the concoction sit for at least ten to fifteen minutes after you blend it.

Wiccan_SeekerModerator (ex-addict since dec '02) 17/10/05 11:45 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Would that be Panaeolus cyanescens or Psilocybe cyanescens? Sounds great! strangladesh (Stranger) 17/10/05 11:53 PM Re: I may have discovered something... thats cool tripstr (trip hard or stay home) 18/10/05 12:37 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... last night all i had was one very dry gram of un unknown type of shrooms. Me and my friend split it and had lemonade with it. So .5 grams, i think its going to be a chill night. But it got a little more than what i thought it was going to be, and it was fun. I was sitting there with my friend in his backyard and then batman showed up. actually it was my friend in a batman costume that looked exactly like batman, he even acted like him. I started really thinking that he was batman. When we started smoking weed, it got really interesting. I was laughing my ass off watching batman toking. lol.

Plutonium (ZedWare Clothing) 18/10/05 08:21 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... how about taking some shrooms with a shot of vinegar? ...theres something to try.

Pluto

Ramuh (Finder of the subbs) 18/10/05 04:53 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Here is another idea as to the cases that are not working. I only read about the first 8 pages, and the last couple, so I dunno if it has been brought up yet or not.

Perhaps this works in a similar way as an MAOI, basically increasing the amount of psilocin your body can get from a single dose. Of course it does it in a different way (making it appear in the easiest possible form for the stomach to take in), but a similar concept, you end up with more of it in you than you would have, at a faster rate.

Some people (myself included) are nicely sensitive to psiloycbin. Myself when I take mushrooms tend to feel things within 10mins normally and start 'trippin' nicely within 30-40mins. I also seem to trip harder than most people, but it doesn't last as long. Perhaps my body is just better suited to more efficiently absorb the psilocybin. If this were the case normally, doing something like this to increase the efficiency will have a lower or no effect, since my body is already unusually efficient at doing so. My highest dose ever was 3.3g dried of my grown cubes on a BRF cake. We ate them in my room, and then when we were all done, started to go outside. By the time I was about 25feet down the hall (about 5mins), I already noticed visual disturbances. Later on, I couldn't move at all, couldn't even see at all the visuals were so intense, and then I got blasted into a crazy ass level 5 realm. They were eaten with Cinnamon toast crunch (cinnamon toast shrooms is pretty good btw).

I want to give this a shot a lot now, to see if it does anything for me. I would be testing it out on no more than .75g though. If it does work at the 2-4x potency boost I've been hearing, that could put me on the verge of level 5 again ><. So anyway, perhaps this is a nice cure for those of you out there with naturally high tolerance. I know one person who has such a high tolerance, and I can't wait to get him to try this out. He's taken about 3.5-4g of dried cubes and gotten pretty small effects, and even 25mg of 2ci gave him NO visuals, just a slight body feeling.

MiRrOr (Stranger) 18/10/05 09:14 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... ok, so heres the deal.. last nite i decided to take part in this community experiment...ive been reading this thread for the last week or so and became very interested... so, i took a whole lemon, squeezed it out, then took .6 grams of powered mush, and dumped it in the lemon juice and let sit for 20 min... NOW, the thing is, i strained the shrooms after 20 min, and just drank the lemon juice straight, with no mush in the juice....it tasted and smelt like shrooms tho... well, needless to say, not much at all happened...VERY minimal effects....is it because i strained the shrooms??? i want to try this experiment again soon, but i dont have many shrooms left and would def hate to waste more yet again yielding no results... any ideas???

PS - i smoked a bowl and got reallllll high...but DEFINITELY not tripping...

Underhillmaster (Mycology Enthusiast) 18/10/05 11:38 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... I always swallow my shroom powder down with my drink, I have never strained it. I personally don't know how long it takes to get all the goodies out of the shroom powder and I never wanted to lose even a small % of the goodies hehe.

Defiticism did a lemon extraction method somewhere in this thread and I believe he let it sit for over 3 days to get all the goodies out. So if you plan to drink it in an hour or so of making it, I would suggest swallowing the powder too.

Throughout the course of this experiment, we had a few with no increased effects, and many many others with varying degrees of potentiation. For me personally it feels like about 3x, but others have reported up to 5x. Not a single person has reported decreased effects yet. Maybe it effects everyone a little bit differently, just like mushrooms do themselves. Say a person thinks going in that it will be 4x as strong, but for some reason it is only 2x, and if he only took 1/4 of his normal dose, he would be at half of his normal trip. That may be why some people are having experiences of no increased effects. Due to the fact that it does seem to increase the effects so much for so many people, I am sorta scared to recommend that anyone take their normal full strength dose this. However, taking a regular dose with this method, is what convinced me how powerful it is. If you still don't notice increased effects, then I am stumped. I'm just a fellow psychonaut, not a scientist hehe.

For those having trouble with lime, I have tried twice now with only lemon, and it works the same for me, so lemon might be special. For those wondering about cranberry, it works very well(meaning I think it potentiates too), but lemon has a much stronger effect. This is just my personal observation, but I started this thread hehe.

Also, for those that like longer(6-8 hours) trips, this is probably not the way you would want to do shrooms. Although, I have been giving some thought to taking a second shot at 3 hours into a trip and see what happens

HeavyToilet (The Heaviest Of Them All) 19/10/05 01:16 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Why the hell did you strain the mushrooms out in the first place?

It's just asking for less intensity.

MoeRon (Raggamuffin) 19/10/05 07:50 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... Holey Moley, The lemon juice works. I did'nt know this thread was still up, last week 3 friends and I ground up 16.5g (dry) and we all chugged them (about 4g/per person) down with strained lemons and/or cranberry juice. I'm not sure if I was peaking, but I was most certainly tripping balls by 30 minutes. We went outside and I had never experienced so much distortion, everything was up and down or leaning over, mentally I had no idea what was going on - long story short, by the time I started to come down (which I came down hard for some reason) one of my friends and I realized that we had thought we were each other for about 45 minutes of the night. Basically, wow, yes it works - *I might take about 2g's less next time (a little intense for my tatse)

Staypuft (Floyd Fanatic) 19/10/05 08:47 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

So yeah, people that are trying the lime (myself) and others i think are not feeling the same as the people that are taking the lemon. Any more people that drank the lime that they can tell that it definately DID work? deficitism (woo woo) 20/10/05 12:38 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

I guess we have to ask our more knowledgeable teammates... What does lemon have that lime does not?

BunsenBurner (Stranger) 21/10/05 05:44 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... hey all, stumbled on this thread last week, good stuff. gonna try 3.5g cubensis w/ fresh lemon juice tomorrow night, will report back. haven't had shrooms since last winter, so planning on a fun night regardless if the lemon is a factor or not.

Savako (Visionarist) 21/10/05 09:54 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

I decided to actually read this thread and found out it was very very interesting and that when I take my trip up to Nor-Cal (The very tip of North West California hehe somewhere west of the casacades) when it rains so i'll be sure to use this method on the cyans I hopefully pick along the way up and down the trip. So if I do get mushies, which I have no idea if I will dunno my chances even though i'd be going along all of Nor-Cal western coast during the raining season. I'm sure theyre pretty high.. my chances lol *AHEM* yweah so if I do get mushies i'll be sure to fan dry, powderize, put in juice, stir 10-20 minutes, take the shot and hope for the best. dingleberrysalad (experienced mind) 21/10/05 10:56 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Quote: BunsenBurner said: hey all, stumbled on this thread last week, good stuff. gonna try 3.5g cubensis w/ fresh lemon juice tomorrow night, will report back. haven't had shrooms since last winter, so planning on a fun night regardless if the lemon is a factor or not.

Prepare to TRIP YOUR FUCKING BALLS OFF my friend! the_psychonaut (psychonaut) 22/10/05 02:53 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... i tryed this 2 nights ago, with 2.5 grams of powdered cubes. i had no increased intensity.(i know because they were of the same batch that i had an oz of) it was actually a weak trip, although i only let the powder sit in the lemonjuice for 10 minutes. i think this is either extremely weak intensification, or complete placebo

Blackhart (DwnWthVwls) 22/10/05 02:58 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

I tried this method last week. Here are some observations.

1. I tried this only 4 days after having done some the "regular" way.I did 1.5 grams. 2. I was going up to do them at my cottage so I put the powder into the lemon juice before I left. On the way there I saw a hippy-type girl fretting over a flat tire. I helped her out,gave her a gram of my extra stash(pay it forward,man) and by the time i got to my cottage and actually got around to taking it it had been in the juice for well over an hour. 3. Come up was in about a half an hour. It started slow and stayed there for another half hour.I thought it was going to fade because of the last dose being only 4 days before. 4. I did not get visuals,as such, but, rather, waking dreams of a world filled with Electric people. The people were electric,the environment was electric,I wish I could draw,man. They told,or somehow indicated to me that we can all communicate with them if we all learn to speak Esperanto! 5. the come down was about T=3 hrs. but the afterglow lasted several more.

I did the same thing the next week and got the same results and waking dreams. I'm trying to hold back and not do them for a couple of weeks and then try 2-3 grams and really see what happens.should give me more time to learn Esperanto! vandago (He who smokes bitches.) 22/10/05 10:01 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Just grinded up 2 grams of dry Pan Subbs and Mixed with two squeezed lemons and a shot of lemon concentrate. I haven't eaten anything all day, I'm going to let it set for 20 min and take it like a big shot. I'll report back in a few hours and let you all know how it went. the_psychonaut (psychonaut) 23/10/05 12:06 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... i think it is all placebo if you ask me...think about it, im not the only one thats said what im about to say: how do you know that you wouldnt have tripped as hard without the juice? how do u know that those peticular shrooms werent just very powerful, and the juice actually decreased the effect? we dont know! at least we dont know untill some REAL research is done on this topic! we should all do one giant experiment(as in EVERY shroomeery member participates in) doing an exact pocedure. with everybody doing it the same (same strains, same growth method, evrything) vandago (He who smokes bitches.) 23/10/05 01:48 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Well I dosed at 4:45 with 2 grams of ground up subbs ( normally about a threshhold level 1 trip for me) and I mixed it with two squeezed lemons and a shot of lemon concentrate. I definetly tripped harder. I am on a good level 3 trip. It kicked it around 5:05 and peaked aout 6:30 I"m just beginning to come down. JUst chilled out and listened to some Hot Cross. Very nice visuals. Bamaman (...has issues.) 23/10/05 03:10 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Quote: the_psychonaut said: how do you know that you wouldnt have tripped as hard without the juice? how do u know that those peticular shrooms werent just very powerful, and the juice actually decreased the effect?

hmmm....heavily experienced trippers who grow their own shrooms and know exactly how much it takes to get them off, and more importantly WHAT DOESN'T, are reporting that a fraction of their usual dosage is hitting them harder than anything they have ever done....hmmmm....yeah just a placebo....

I have shroomed 200+ times, smoked weed for 30yrs, dropped cid 100+ times, and multiple other other recreational goodies. I've taken shrooms dry, powdered, fresh, in tea, while smoking weed, on an empty stomach, and on a full stomach. When it comes my body and mind on hallucinogens.... I do have some references to draw from.

My comfortable dosage of the shrooms that I have access too, (GT's from brf/quinoa spawned to h/poo) is 5g. Of these particular ones I have handled 6.8g just fine. Yet, it was still not the strongest shroom trip I've been on.

I will be trying 1g powdered of these same shrooms within the next ten days with fresh squeezed lemons. (sorry that it won't be sooner, but I've been taking alot this month and my tolerance was noticeable on my last fiesta )

Normally, I would never take 1g. The effects of only a single gram would be barely noticeable to me, if at all, especially if I had some decent weed at the time.

We'll see what what happens... ______

To everyone else, the next step is to find the comfortable dosage amounts to get loooooong comfortable trips. Such as; 2g eaten + 1g w/lemon juice.

I have only read the first 15 pages of this thread.... so, I don't know if anyone has reported any combo dosage to help get the best of both worlds.

After I get the my feet wet with 1g w/juice, I will try some combo doses and report those results. Trav () 23/10/05 05:12 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

I tried soaking the mushrooms in lemon juice for 3-5 minutes before ingestion. I did see a significant difference in strength of trip as well how fast it came up. 15-20 minutes after I consumed the 3.5 grams of mush, I was close to tripping harder then I have ever on mush.

What was very interesting is the night before I had taken a single gram and done some nitrous, so I wasn't expecting very good effects due to tolerance. That wasn't the case. I will be using this method from here on out. vandago (He who smokes bitches.) 24/10/05 03:14 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

I little more in depth about my trip last night:

I had not eating anything all day but had smoked a little pot maybe a couple bowls of mid-grade here and there.

4:45 - Dosed glass that conatined 2 grams of dried panealeous subbalteatous, 2 squeezed lemons, 1 shot of lemon concentrate.

5:10 - Somethings definetly going to happen, stomache feels tight and tingling is beginning to happen in stomache.

5:20 - Decide to smoke some hash, take 3 tokes and it really kicks things up a notch, now at a level 1-2 already stronger than two grams would be at it's peak for me.

5:45-6:30 - Popped in Hot Cross - Cryonics ( fabulous cd check it out if you get the chance ) Laid back on my couch and shut off all the lights. Very nice visuals at this point, I almost felt myself losing it at points and times, where the only physical parts of my body I was aware of was my feet and my head. I was extremely surpised how gone I was for such a low dose.

6:30-7:00 - Still peaking but just chilling watching tv and smoking bongs. Visuals still there strong trails breathing walls, and a lot of time distortion.

7:30 - Starting to come down quick. Not like a normal dragged out mushroom end it ends a lot faster from 7:30 to 8 I started to feel more normal at a pretty seady rate.

I'd say this method is perfect for me. Long mushroom trips tend to make me feel a lot of tension and paranoia just because mushrooms do that to me. If I'm going to go to a level 5 I'd rather use less mushrooms and have less duration.

I will e trying this again shortly but I happen to be dosing on san pedro for the first time this friday so it won't be this weekend.

Underhillmaster (Mycology Enthusiast) 24/10/05 09:39 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Thought I would update my most recent experience. I took about 2.5g powdered with lemon at 10 on saturday. At 11, I made another 2g mix and drank that after it sit for 10 minutes. Let me say, 'Whoa' lol. I was near my peak from the first drink, then the crazy lemon come up hit from the second drink, and it got somewhat disorienting while drink two was going up to its peak. Once it leveled off though, it was a wonderful level 4 experience. I also didn't reach baseline until a bit after 6 hours from the first drink, which is longer than a single drink trip usually lasts me. I have tripped every weekend since my lemon discovery, so I think my tolerance is a little askew atm. However, it was abundantly obvious to me that redosing with the lemon method is a great way to take more shrooms to to increase your trip without having to wait a long time. Eaten shrooms take an hour to hit me, but only 20 minutes when I drink with lemon. 1 hour from first drink + 10 soak of second drink + 20 minutes to feel second drink= 90 minutes in, or roughly the 'Stamet point' for redosing hehe. After a few weeks break, I plan to eat a bit of shrooms and then do a lemon drink about 45 minutes in. I am hoping to get the intensity/strength of the lemon method along with a longer trip duration from eating. We will see how it goes.

Since my last post, I got 4 more friends to try lemon. All 4 reported noticeably increased effects. I am convinced that there is more than placebo going on with lemon, but I am at a loss as why it is not working for some people. It has been around a month since this thread was started, and the anectdotal evidence of peoples posts indicate that it seems to be working for well over half the people that have tried it(70-80% ish). As far as my circle of friends away from the Shroomery, the percentage is even higher.

The experiment is ongoing, so if you haven't tried lemon yet, and want to contribute, give it a shot. Since the communities research is haphazard at best hehe, a lot of us will form our opinions on lemon from the anecdotal evidence from posts in this thread and from personal experiences.

To those who have tried it and noticed the same thing I did, "You're welcome." fungusflip (visionary) 25/10/05 12:45 AM Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute] how interesting? i discovered this several years ago actually so it's of no suprise to me. kinda cool to see that others are finding this out now. i personally like to make fruit smoothies and chocolate candies with the powder. as for it being being stronger and faster it probably has something to do with the fact that you grinded the shrooms up into a powder first which may make the psilocybin more readily available to be metabolized. i'm also wondering if Cranberry juice may inhibit monoaminoxidase in your stomach temporarily. i know chocolate does and as a matter of fact the Mazatec indians and several other mushroom using indians will serve cocoa before eating mushrooms. try the same experiment, mixing the shroom powder into a chocolate milk shake. i think you'll be suprised. this also works with 2C-B. this method of ingestion is definitely superior to just eating the whole shrooms. now try this out. 5-7 grams of shroom powder in juice or chocolate, as soon as you get it down, lay flat on your back in a dark area with earplugs in. don't move. just breath and relax. enjoy the ride. in higher doses and no outside sensory input the shrooms exhibit a different kind of effect. the teachers will sometimes come out to play if you know what i mean.

Wiccan_SeekerModerator (ex-addict since dec '02) 27/10/05 03:58 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

A few days ago a friend and I embarked on a total of 4 doses between us.

I took 2x 0.25gr, he took 0.75+1gr three hours apart. We dissolved the mushroompowder of known strength into 4x 25ml (little under 1oz) of preserved lemon juice from a plastic lemon as bought in supermarkets. We experienced about a 2-3x increase in effects.

The day after I took 0.5gr with about 1gr vitamin C in 1oz warm water and experienced what felt like a 2-3x increase, had I not had tolerance. On that day my friend took 250mcg of LSD and spiritually burst into flames but thats another story

So I can confirm that supermarket lemon juice multiplied things 2-3x in several doses across 2 people. toody (Stranger) 27/10/05 07:21 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Well i have been reading through the trip reports and some threads on this "shroomery" site for about 1-2 weeks and when i stumbled across this thread i was amazed. I read through every little bit of this topic because i was so interested. By the sounds of it this new lemon teck seems to work for more than 85% of people who tried it. I have only tripped on shrooms once but i smoke pot on regular basis. I am deffinatley going to try this teck this friday with 2 of my friends with about a 1.5 gram dose each. I will report back with my results this weekend!

Happy Shrooming! snakeandbake (Stranger) 27/10/05 11:53 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... i just registered to point out that in two of the unsuccessful trip reports, the trippers put the lime juice in the fridge before consuming it. maybe the juice must be at least room temperature upon consumption? I'm going to give it a try with warm lemon juice eventually, maybe somebody could try it with cold lemon juice and see if they don't notice any increased effects? funkyjunky (Sigh Low Sippin') 27/10/05 06:53 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

Didn't have time to read entire thread; A few years ago, I tried soaking chopped mushroom pieces (about 1-2g) in about one ounce of vinegar (5% acetic acid) for three days. The vinegar solution turned blue on top and the color travelled downwards to the bottom by the third day. On the third day I drank the purple solution in a shotglass (half full, so I added half shot of water to dilute acidity) followed by a few swigs of plain water. The trip was far more potent, yet shorter duration, than I'd experienced with that weight of mushroom.

I believe the methods discussed in this thread serve to increase the bioavailability of psilocin/cybin, by pre-extracting and possibly certain salts (namely psilo*acetates) may have increased activity compared to the freebase psilo in relative weight. ninsega (Stranger) 27/10/05 09:42 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Did you survive? vandago (He who smokes bitches.) 28/10/05 01:29 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Me and a friend just ground 3 grams of dried pan subbs a piece and sat in lemon for 25 minutes. Drank 22 minutes ago and started feeling it about 7 minutes ago. Wish me luck newmodel (The Observer) 28/10/05 01:53 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Hmmm...well here is my contribution:

We started the experiment with 4 people. Each person was to consume 2.5g of dried-powdered mushrooms with a glass of cranberry juice. One comment I would like to add for anyone who does now powder the shrooms to a fine poweder, is if you are set in mixing them with a drink or tea, put them in a tea bag, this way the bits won't stick to your glass and you can eat the shake afterwards.

Anyway, the come-on of the trip was unusual, there was no pre-trip-anxiety. My stomach did not turn and there was no feeling of uneasiness. Another stange occurence that went against many of the posts here is; the trip took about 45 min. to kick in. If many of you are thinking it was the shrooms, i fairly sure it was not for several reasons; one, everyone felt similair effects and I have tried these shrooms before and the worked great . So i am not sure what went wrong.

The trip itself: Was fairly delightful. The build up was quick but it was no- freight train. Very philosophical trip...very much a inner-mind-self reflection type of trip. Felt very in-tune with the world and with *light*. Not very visual but that's do to too many factors.

Overall I found this to be inconclusive and would like to try it again. To be continued:::::

ShroomOmatic (Mushroom Omen) 28/10/05 05:42 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Sweet thanks for sharing I must try this!

Toddo (LNC Arteest) 29/10/05 07:44 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... great stuff! Just went through this whole thread. ILl keep tabs on it...you guys are on to something big. hilikus989 (who knew?) 29/10/05 08:39 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... im going to try this tonight. i dont have a scale so my estimated amount is anywhere from 2-3g dried powdered cubensis soaked in the juice from 2 whole lemons (about 3/4 cup). i began the soak at apprx. 1:10 pm. im going to let this soak all day and dose tonight. i will report back later either prior/post dosing then after the trip. wish me luck yall. snakeandbake (Stranger) 29/10/05 09:37 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Quote: hilikus989 said: im going to try this tonight. i dont have a scale so my estimated amount is anywhere from 2-3g dried powdered cubensis soaked in the juice from 2 whole lemons (about 3/4 cup). i began the soak at apprx. 1:10 pm. im going to let this soak all day and dose tonight. i will report back later either prior/post dosing then after the trip. wish me luck yall.

be sure to mention if the lemon juice was refrigerated while it was soaking or not. vandago (He who smokes bitches.) 29/10/05 10:17 PM Re: I may have discovered something...

Had a FABULOUS time thursday night. I will never do shrooms any other way after this. I took 2.7 grams dry and blended it and put it in a cup. I then squeezed two very large lemons into it, and put about a shot of lemon concetrate. I had a friend with me as well that took 2.9 grams dry ( pan subbs) . Btw I did not refridgorate the juice after the mushrooms were with it.

The initial effects started within 10-15 minutes, I post on here that I had dosed around 20 minutes after I drank. The trip was amazing, strong level 3 damn near a 4. The thing about this method I noticed is it comes on so hard and fast that I don't have that edge for some reason. Normally one would think it would make it worse, but it was far easier to handle. I tripped for maybe 3.5 hours no longer becuase I passed out right b4 11.

NoTiC (Dissociated) 30/10/05 02:14 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

I have two theories on this. First, the acidic juice frees the actives from the powder better/faster than just water alone. Also, I know for sure that altering the ph of your stomach or urine will definitely affect the speed/level of absorption for many drugs. It might be an interesting experiment for someone with the equipment to see if maybe some of the psilocybin is breaking down into psilocin.

NoTiC (Dissociated) 30/10/05 02:26 AM

Re: Theories for how this potentiation works

Also, grapefruit juice may have an added effect over some other juices as it has an inhibiting effect on a part of the CYP 3A enzyme in the digestive system, preventing substrates of this enzyme from being metabolized. See Grapefruit Juice and Drug Interactions Also useful is: CYP-P450 Drug Interactions

MushroomMonster (Stranger) 30/10/05 01:40 PM

Re: Theories for how this potentiation works

I ate n 8th either 4-5 hours ago. I'm not to sure because I think the time changed. I squeezed a lemon into the 8th of mushrooms then topped it off with orange juice and I've never tripped so hard. Underhillmaster (Mycology Enthusiast) 30/10/05 07:14 PM

Re: Theories for how this potentiation works

Notic, both of your ideas have been discussed in the many pages of this thread hehe. I know its a lot to read sorry. My working theory is that all those factors are contributing. The low pH starts the psylocin conversion process, so you have ready to absorb psylocin as soon as you drink. Being powdered in solution increases the surface area that is available for absorption. And while it hasn't been studies as in depthly, lemon looks like it may have many of the same enzyme inhibiting factors as grapefuit. Things that mess with these enzymes affect absorption. Most notably 'first pass' absorption. If all 3 of these factors are affecting absorption in the same direction(i.e. more psylocin absorbed over a shorter period of time), then that could very well explain everything hehe. I went into all this in more depth somewhere in middle of this thread, but that is the jist of what I think is going on.

I am glad so many have tried or are going to try the lemon. For those that are having effects similar to me, you can understand why I started the thread in the first place hilikus989 (who knew?) 30/10/05 08:31 PM

Re: Theories for how this potentiation works ok heres how it went 12:19am dose 12:30am initial feeling 12:45am first visuals 1:09am trip begins the come up was quick and there was no stomach feeling at all. my head got light fast and the body feeling came on quick as well. i was at level 3 at peak and had some nice visuals then they tapered off by about 2:30am then from there it was more philosophical. i went to sleep by 4:00am with an afterglow feeling. juice wasn't refrigerated during the soak which was for just over 11 hrs. i will note that i have tripped the past few weekends straight and my tolerance has built up. I'm going to wait at least a month before next trip, not only to get normal tolerance back but to conserve my mushrooms as well since the cube season is done here in my part of georgia. we can only hope for good weilii flushes now. next time i'll dose more, probably at least 4-5g with the juice next time. i will say though, i wouldn't have been able to get what i got out of that trip if i had just eaten them. the juice worked. hopefully next trip will be longer. try it if you haven't yet. snakeandbake (Stranger) 30/10/05 11:42 PM Re: Theories for how this potentiation works

Well it seems that it's worked for almost everybody so far, except for an exception or two. I noticed that at least two of the exceptions (I didn't read the entire thread, skipped a few pages here and there) put the lemon juice in the fridge to let it soak. Since heat speeds up chemical reactions, it's easy to assume lack of heat would slow them down. So do NOT refridgerate your juice or fresh fruit if you're going to try this method. Or at least take them out of the fridge a few hours in advance so they have time to reach room temperature.

D_M_X (Stranger) 31/10/05 05:04 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Nice way to overdose, I exhibited the same feeling when I OD'd on X, and my thoughts were to fast for me, I was thinking so fast I couldn't remember shit that I said 30 seconds ago. My brain felt like a guy on Crystal Meth and Crack screaming:

GO-GO-GO-GO-GO-GO-GO-GO-GO-GO-GO-GO-GO-GO!

Near Death Experience right there, you my friend seems like almost died too, you just don't even realize it.

If you injected THC straight in your brain with a syringe you may/could die, it's all about the method of absorbtion.

Drinking juice and taking shroomz could just be THAT syringe that cannot be controlled. Catch my drift.

Injecting heroin is more effective too, healthier...no nonphixion (Stranger) 31/10/05 09:09 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

Quote: slammin007 said: OK, I was excited about this, although I've never felt any benefits from mixing shrooms in any way with any substance. I thought I'd give it a try.

I'd consider myself fairly experienced with shrooms, I've tripped about 100 times. I know what each level feels like and what to expect.

I used 3 fresh limes and 1 gram of shrooms which I placed in the juice and blended with the braun mixer for about a minute. I placed the juice in the fridge and let it sit for an hour.

I didn't feel any effects stronger than a 1.0 gram usually gives me.

I also hadn't eaten for about 4 hours and hadn't done any drugs for 7 days prior.

So, I just thought I'd report, it didn't work for me.

The other user in the thread that posted it didn't work for him.. also put it in the fridge prior to drinking it... interesting.

Psiledehysp (second mushroom to the left) 31/10/05 06:02 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

This is great. Thank you Underhillmaster, and all contributors! I have read all pages and I`m eager to join the experiment as well as to find out whats going on and what are perfect conditions for this to work.

So far I`v been asking myself: does it just not always work (not for everyone, but most) or did those people who had no potentiating results did something wrong? There were, as mentioned, two cases of putting juice in the fridge (makes sense that it would not work so good) and also some of the reports with no results (if I remember) were not detailed, not stating if the juice was fresh, from bottle 100% or weaker.

So I believe it would be best if people doing it were giving as much info as possible. Now, as for placebo... I know it can have big effects; I once had blotter that was empty, but believed it was just weak and was feeling something out of ordinary.... Bot still I don`t think it could have such an effect - in his original post Underhillmaster had most powerful mushroom trip in his 20 year tripping experience, from just 2g - more powerful than his other ~10g experiences! BUT...

..I can not forget what I have read here, I am influenced, yes, BUT my two friends are not and at least one of them is willing to try it. I told him its Shroomery experiment, I told him it will probably have influence on his/their trip but I said nothing how, I only said it can be anything, strength, length, visual aspect, body load of a trip, or 100 other things so just notice what (if at all) is different from your normal trip from such dosage (around 0.5g). As soon as he/they`ll do it I`ll report back. As for me, I have just two days ago tripped in autumn forest and it was great but I will have to wait some time before trying this.

What else can I say - lets keep it alive and hope in time we will understand this better - or at least understand what works. Good luck to all and this experiment. And happy tripping fungusflip (visionary) 31/10/05 08:22 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Quote: NoTiC said: I have two theories on this. First, the acidic juice frees the actives from the powder better/faster than just water alone. Also, I know for sure that altering the ph of your stomach or urine will definitely affect the speed/level of absorption for many drugs. It might be an interesting experiment for someone with the equipment to see if maybe some of the psilocybin is breaking down into psilocin.

your body breaks down psilocybin into psilocin through metabolism anyway. psilocybin is a more stable molecule than psilocin. so maybe since the acidic juices are doing this before it's consumed it allows the body to absorb more psilocin, faster, before it is destroyed by monoamineoxidase. maybe it's a short acting MAOI which would allow more psilocin absorbtion as well? lemmon juice, cranberry juice, and vinegar (acidic) are also used in making home ayahuasca brews and DMT,as well as psilocybin extractions. since all of these are tryptamine maybe that will shed some light onto why people seem to be having very strong effects from smaller doses? or maybe i'm just imagining all of this? fungusflip (visionary) 31/10/05 08:27 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Quote: fungusflip said:

lemmon juice, cranberry juice, and vinegar (acidic) are also used in making home ayahuasca brews and DMT,as well as psilocybin extractions. since all of these are tryptamine maybe that will shed some light onto why people seem to be having very strong effects from smaller doses?

or maybe i'm just imagining all of this?

how wierd! i said almost the exact same thing as "Underhillmaster" said in response to the same post by "NoTiC", without even realizing it til now. goes to show that some of us are on the same page. strangladesh (Stranger) 01/11/05 07:42 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... i must try it...

RussianCelery (Stranger) 02/11/05 04:10 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Quote: Quote: fungusflip said:

or maybe i'm just imagining all of this?

how wierd! i said almost the exact same thing as "Underhillmaster" said in response to the same post by "NoTiC", without even realizing it til now. goes to show that some of us are on the same page.

The reason for Lemon being used in dmt brews is the simple fact that it acidifies the water, allowing for the dmt to precipitate out as a salt. When you basify the same solution, it turns the dmt into a freebase. Thats why when you use an acid/base extraction, the dmt will not leave the solution in a nonpolar solvent when its acidic. So you can defat the solution for a cleaner extract.

Its not because its a MAOI! Caapi(sp?) the vine used in most aya brews has a MAOI in it, not the lemon. Personally, I think the primary reason for the strength of the lemon mushroom, is the simple fact that its pulling out the goodies before that happens in your stomach. Meaning your going to get a stronger wave initally, and it will be finished faster. Basic Chemistry.

The reason its probably been stronger than mushroom tea, is because most of your preparations are not involving so much heat; thereby the psyliocin is not being broken down. Cleaner extract, less material plus more surface area = Stronger Faster Trip.

You'll notice the biggest difference most likely, if up to this point you have only been eating the mushrooms whole, or making tea with too hot a liquid. But I would say its defanitly not entirely placebo.

Psychonaught (Psycadelic Pimp) 03/11/05 04:20 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... this method sure would save me money/time!

Psychonaught (Psycadelic Pimp) 03/11/05 04:23 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Quote: rod said: I,ve been chopping mine up and adding to juice for a long time, I,m going to get some pompom cranberry juice for my next time I think [/quoteI

I thought pompom only had pomegranate and grape juice?

Fospher (Flashforward) 04/11/05 11:23 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Fucking riiighhhht!

I tripped on .8 grams for 5 hours and am still feeling the after effects! Poured straight lemon juice in a shotglass, let the powdered shrooms sit in there for about 5 minutes, then slammed it, and drank another shot of lemon juice.

Onset in about half an hour, elevated mood, fantastic trip for the amount of boomers eaten!

peepants (Stranger) 04/11/05 12:26 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Fospher,

You bought concentrated lemon juice like you can get from the store, correct? You didn't actually squeeze lemons?

I just spent the last 4 hours or so reading this post (and doing my homework) when I should reallllly be sleeping. Awesome work! This is a pretty incredible discovery. Even if it doesn't work for everybody it's really pretty exciting. I'm going to try this with a friend this weekend. He's never tripped before though so I'm debating how much to give him...

Mitchnast (Johnny Poppyseed) 04/11/05 05:08 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... ive been offline for a while. my computer died of several virus' and virulent wear. 3 nights ago i split up 8 grams of powedered liberty caps among 2 friends after letting it sit in cranberry juice. it was there first time. it wans't a good idea. they both started floating in a half hour and really started to wig on the shrooms. then they were both puking their guts out. they only puked for a minute but this started a thought loop of doom that had them in the bathroom for hours talking about calling the paramedics. yeesh. i kept assuring them that they would be alright. but the girl was getting red patches on her body and claimed she could not breathe. by about a half hour she was in a dead weight and could not will her body to move. she COULD breathe just fine of course, she was in fact hyperventilating. her crying would be inturrupted withtg the occasional blood-curdling wail of anguish. her BF pretty much just sat there asking "is this normal?" over and over. it was a disaster. i was also tripping quite profoundly, and could see the mechanisms of their anguish. i however, more experienced, was used to it. i thought however in my experience i could coach neophytes through it. i was mistaken. all i could do pretty much was carry the girl to a warmer spot and comfort the guys worries about his girlfriend. the guy kept complaining of triangles. dispite the mayhem and fear, evrybody was smiling and going into fits of laughter occasionally. thats good at least, tho far from a visionary experience. i had about 3 grams so i could be a bit of ground support, but it was too much, i cant immagine how intense it was for them.

Fospher (Flashforward) 04/11/05 07:33 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Quote: peepants said: Fospher,

You bought concentrated lemon juice like you can get from the store, correct? You didn't actually squeeze lemons?

This shit that I got is just like the real thing though, though Im pretty sure as long as you maintain the same acidity, it doesnt matter.

Wiccan_SeekerModerator (ex-addict since dec '02) 05/11/05 03:07 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

A friend and I used this kind of supermarket lemon juice and got 2-3 potentiation on mixing the shrooms with 25ml and letting it steep for 5min.

HolydiverModerator () 05/11/05 03:24 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Yuck, isn't straight lemon juice a bit "tart" going down?

Wiccan_SeekerModerator (ex-addict since dec '02) 05/11/05 03:34 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... it's quite acidic but in a fresh way and it almost completely covers the shroom taste! oroboros (Stranger) 05/11/05 04:08 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Lemon juice is very acidic,but,the alkalinity of the 'rooms should balance that out ,somewhat,huh

Anno (Experimenter) 05/11/05 05:00 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

The alkalinity of the mushrooms is minuscule compared to the acidity of a fair amount of lemon juice. So no, there is no balancing out of the acidity on this account.

Underhillmaster (Mycology Enthusiast) 05/11/05 10:56 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Glad to see people are still trying it. It seems that through the time this experiment has been going on, the WARNING of CAUTION kind of got lost by the wayside. If this method works for you, and it is working for very very many people, it is very easy to get higher than you intended. That can be very uncomfortable for some people, i.e. bad trip. For me personally, I can't take a 1/3 of my happy eaten dosage with this method before it gets almost overpoweringly strong. That was why I posted the original post in this thread, was to warn people who may end up trying this method, to be ready. That has evolved to the ongoing experiment, but the warning still needs to be heeded.

All that being said, if you haven't tried this yet, it is definitely worth trying. In my opinion, this is a borderline revolution in mushroom usage lol. It has defenitely changed how I look at shrooms and how I do them.

Grimocin (Doctor of Fooly Cooly) 06/11/05 01:40 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... well i'm no chemist, and i havent read this whole thread. however i see 3 good theories on this. with the lemon juice: the lemon juice could convert the psilocybin to psilocin , thus effects appear quicker and stronger. or the increased acidity just helps in the absorbtion of the alkaloids into the bloodstream. (less gets wasted in the process or just passed thru as waste.) with the vitamin c (absorbic/citric acid): Vita-C is a good antioxidant (correct me if i'm wrong), thus it could help to prevent oxidation of the alkaloids are they are passed thru the body and on their way to the liver to be converted to psilocin/nor-b). it also seems possible that some psilocin isnt proccessed into the brain the first time thru the body, and may degrade before its "used" , so maybe the concentrated anti-oxidants in the blood system helps to "preserve" the alkaloids in the body. here's a quick example of my thoughts. lets say you eat some shrooms and you have an intake of 5mg of psilocybin. but lets assume only 1.7mg of it ever reaches the brain. so about 70% is lost to metabolic processes. now lets say we eat 2mg of psilocybin with lemon juice and/or vita-c, and lets say because of antioxidant properties or of increased absorbtion you get all 2mg to the brain. thus u eat less than half of the normal dosage and aquire a more potent effect. just my ideas, sorry for repeating if someone else has already posted these thoughts.

Savako (Visionarist) 06/11/05 03:40 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

LoL I buy that lemon juice from Vons and other supermarkets all the time fo rits"tart/sour" taste I LOVE IT! So if it's true that it seriously blocks out shrooms taste and has the potential to X the trip by 2x-3x then i'll go ahead and try it out. dingleberrysalad (experienced mind) 06/11/05 08:31 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Quote: Underhillmaster said: Glad to see people are still trying it. It seems that through the time this experiment has been going on, the WARNING of CAUTION kind of got lost by the wayside. If this method works for you, and it is working for very very many people, it is very easy to get higher than you intended. That can be very uncomfortable for some people, i.e. bad trip. For me personally, I can't take a 1/3 of my happy eaten dosage with this method before it gets almost overpoweringly strong. That was why I posted the original post in this thread, was to warn people who may end up trying this method, to be ready. That has evolved to the ongoing experiment, but the warning still needs to be heeded.

I agree 100%! I tried this method out for the second time on friday and it kicked my ass again! It was totaly amazing! I will problably never eat a full eight of shrooms again in my life because there is no need for it! If there is anyone out there who hasn't tried this yet, WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU WAITING FOR!

I took one lemon and one lime and juiced them and mixed well with only 1.7 grams of dried shroom powder and let it sit for 5 minutes and then drank it. I normaly take 3.5 grams of shrooms, but with only 1.7 grams and 1lemon and lime I had the most vivid visuals I have ever seen!!! I was laying on my trampoline after smokein a bowl topped with kief and staring at the stars. The whole sky was covered with a hallucination of red, yellow, and orange all swirling and twisting together and the stars were twinkling through. I have never seen an open eye visual that amazing and vivid and real! And from only 1.7 grams! It blew my mind. This really works people so be carefull. You could end up tripping hard than you even imagined possible!

This is an amazing discovery. It will make my mushrooms last TWICE as long!!! I only need 1.7 g's for an AMAZING MIND BLOWING REALITY SHATTERING TRIP!!! Awsome discovery bro!!! Shit, you could go down in psychedelic history like Timothy Leary for discovering this UnderHillMaster!

MushmanTheManic (Psilosopher) 06/11/05 08:37 AM

Re: slapped together theory #1

I'm a bit confused about the mechanisms of this.... Psilocybin dephosphorilizes to psilocyn due to either hydrolysis or a strong acid. So, the all the psilocybin would be breaking down into psilocyn, correct? In my understanding, Psilocyn is not accepted into metabolic 'pathways' as easily as Psilocybin. (And, I think this would effect the blood/brain barrier too, but I'm far from sure.)

Is the psilocyn diffusing into your blood through your throat and stomach tissues, without having to be metabolized (Making the effects come on much quicker)? dingleberrysalad (experienced mind) 06/11/05 08:40 AM

Re: slapped together theory #1

I have no idea why or how this works. And I really don't care why or how it works, all that matters is that it workds! mikeyboy () 07/11/05 08:23 PM Re: slapped together theory #1

I tried this a couple of days ago

Usually i trip on 30grams + of fresh Stropharia Cubensis

This time i dried 30 grams of them

Then split them, so approximately 1.5 grams of dried Cubes

I put each portion into Concentrated Lemon Juice solution and mixed and left to stand for 5 minutes

We each consumed them (tasted awful!) and then...

Well within 20 minutes (not 100% sure of the time) we were up, very quick come on, quick enough to not notice any panic or onset nausea.

Was a good level 2/3 and was nicely blasted into a 5 after some nitrous was consumed

Consumed before the trip were 2 MDMA pills so it was a hippy flip, but effects were diminished by the time i ate the shrooms.

Weed was smoked occasionally throughout the trip and intensified the effects slightly (it was shitty weed though )

I am going to take my mushrooms this way in future and look forward to my next trip

The trip was a good few hours and the comedown was quite quick.

Great fun sunit (Stranger) 08/11/05 06:15 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... basically mumbled "Help" and "Please Stop" holy not sure if i want to try haha but i will :P sounds killer the_psychonaut (psychonaut) 09/11/05 12:25 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... damn i wish it worked for me!!! id did not have any potentiation when i tryed it peepants (Stranger) 09/11/05 12:46 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

I tried this experiment out last Sunday with 2 friends.

2 of my friends (Friend X and Friend Y) ingested 1 gram and I had 1.5 grams. I took 2 1.5 shots of lemon juice that you buy in the store. They both took 1 shot each. We let the concoctions sit for 15 minutes. The lemon juice was luke warm. We drank a few sips of cranberry juice to chase it with.

We all felt tingly for about 30-40 minutes before we started to notice any real difference. The trip was pretty mild for all parties. Friend X seemed to be at about the level of me, while Friend Y wasn't feeling much at all (only slight change).

I feel it didn't really do much to us. Since we all 3 did this, and nobody had a particularly amazing experience, might there have been a problem with the preparation? We used "The Ultimate Chopper" to chop the shrooms up. It was a really intense chopping machine. I've heard that chopping them up like that might have done something by exciting the psilocybin? Might a less intense chopping method be more effective?

Underhillmaster (Mycology Enthusiast) 09/11/05 01:37 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Not sure about chopping method. I don't 'chop' mine, i just mash em up in the baggie for a few minutes. I try to get as close to powder as possible. I also try to powder them up right before I mix with liquid. Try again if you can, it seems to be working for a lot of people, including myself. I have only used actual lemons, so you might try that. Although, others have had success with cranberry, lemon concentrate, and vit C water. This experiment is still going on, and is growing everyday. More people are trying it and relating their experiences. I plan to try again this week and I will let you know how it goes.

Psiledehysp (second mushroom to the left) 09/11/05 10:23 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

One thing that comes to my mind, since all three of you had no efects - mayby its the pre-made lemon juice? Some people had success with lemon juice from the supermarket, but there are juices and juices, some may be 100% other may be just made to taste similar and be less acidic, who knows? How about waiting some time for a tollerance drop (like a week or two) and trying with juice squeezed from fresh lemons? If you would like to do it of course . I`m still waiting for my oportunity to do this. Good luck.

PookztA (psytrancer) 09/11/05 10:39 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... do you have to powder the shrooms? for example, could you soak a few caps, near 2.5g in some lemon juice, then simply eat the shrooms and drink the lemon juice real quick?

Also, would you guys recommend this method as the method of consumption from now on? (for veteran trippers)? What if you want to trip in nature, will this last long enough? will the effects be too intense to enjoy nature? or has this basically changed many minds about consumption? once you have tried this extraction method, will u ever go back to plain old consumption of the mush? cant wait to try this!

Wiccan_SeekerModerator (ex-addict since dec '02) 09/11/05 10:53 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Quote: do you have to powder the shrooms? for example, could you soak a few caps, near 2.5g in some lemon juice, then simply eat the shrooms and drink the lemon juice real quick?

Powdering probably is best but by all means experiment!

Quote: Also, would you guys recommend this method as the method of consumption from now on?

Definately! Why take 2-3 grams when one gram in tasty lemonjuice will do the same thing? It would make no sense economywise.

Quote: What if you want to trip in nature, will this last long enough? For me it lasted just as long

Quote: will the effects be too intense to enjoy nature?

That depends on how high you dose! I do notice a tendency in the reports for a smooth coming-up.

Quote: has this basically changed many minds about consumption?

0.25gr + 5% vitamin C hit me like a gram! lemonjuice gave me and a friend 2-3x potentiation!~ Would that change your mind? butterflydawn (lucid dreamer) 09/11/05 11:15 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... ok i dont know if my experience is totally related with this post because i used fresh fruits when I'm making my shroom juice but here is the story;

I blended 20 grams of fresh cyanescens and banana+kiwi, and just a bit of water. i drank 2 large cups of liquid at one shots. after just 20 minutes disturbing come up started.Come ups are always very uncomfortable for me.I always feel ohh so small compared to universe at the same time my body feels strange cuz i got those quickly changing body temperatures.Anyways.. and i started to think, oh why did i take them?i just took 50 grams fresh last week, so i needed to stop and Analise my trip.but i took again.. i started to blame myself, it was sorta like mushroom is kinda angry. and i started to think ok it is going to be a dull trip. (at that point i was lying on complete silent darkness) and i decided to change the setting and turn on the lights and put some music.The first 2 discs that i put again couldn't save me from horrible uncomfortable come up.At like 45 min mark,.....IT HIT! IT HIT! IT HIT! it hit so hard.i was holding my bed like crazy, cuz speed was like 300 km/Ph. and informations was so fast also the visions. complex visions came and go so fast.my mind was working super fast as usual.but this time i was getting over informed and immediately forgetting. for 3 hours i just crawled in my bed with this high speed tripping with horrible muscle cramps.It was obvious that ego didn't want to go. and at one point i said/: ok i am yours.you are so powerful.just dont hurt me, McKenna helped me about this and suddenly all the cramps and that high speed tripping mellowed down. and new level of visuals started.this time more understandable and lets say more easy to control.ancient temples i traveled. overall, even i took a high dose i believe that blending and consuming it like a liquid intensifies trip a lot. That is so obvious. Yeah a bit unrelated to cranberry incident, but here is my story/

Grimocin (Doctor of Fooly Cooly) 09/11/05 12:53 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... what do you guys think about this? i got dragged to the local Smoothie King by some friends of mine (females go figure), and i saw this packet of powder called Emer'gen-C. Its a drink mix that you just add water too. It contains 1,000 mg of vitamin C (as 7 mineral ascorbates, ot so it says on the packet). it also contains: Folic Acid 12.5 mcg Panthothenic Acid 2.5 mg Alpha-Lipoic Acid 1mg so when my costa ricans are done fruiting and i get some dried i'm going to crush up 1 gram and mix it in 6 oz of water and add this packet of crap, let it sit for 3-5 mins then down it. i'll report the results the day after considering what i've read so far about vita-C it should work with 1000mg of it. pic of the packet

Wiccan_SeekerModerator (ex-addict since dec '02) 09/11/05 02:49 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

The problem is that your vitamin C is in nonacidic form (as mineral salts instead of free acid) and 1gr only "does" one fluid ounce tops. Best is to use lemon juice, either fresh or supermarket juice.

Underhillmaster (Mycology Enthusiast) 09/11/05 08:27 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

For those that find your lemon trip markedly shorter, you can do what I did on my last trip to extend it. I took my normal dose and I took another 1g about 90 minutes later. It made my total trip last about as long as when I eat them. The come up for my redose was really cool as I was peaking already. richardcypher101 (Mycophagous) 09/11/05 10:54 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Has anyone tried doing the ground-up+Lemon Juice method along with some chewed up mushies?

Ive thought about eating 2g of dried mushrooms, and redose 30-40min later with another 2-3g ground up in lemon juice. It could extend the trip much longer, along with the very strong effects.

MrClam (Mountaineer) 10/11/05 07:38 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... i have read this entire thread and am amazed, my first trip will be tomorrow or the day after, would you recommend doing this for a first time? or just strait out chewing them. also my friend suggested we chop them up and add them to yogurt, do you think this would make the effects hit slower and not as hard seeing as how dairy digests slow?

Wiccan_SeekerModerator (ex-addict since dec '02) 10/11/05 09:26 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

I recommend you to not do it.

You have never tripped on mushrooms before, so in my view you better find out the "typical response" before you dive into this. And try to weigh your dose.

No yoghurt! It will likely lessen or alter the impact of your mushrooms. Personally I recommend you to take between 0.5-1.5gr, chew it up and slosh it away with water, or powder it, stir it into half a glass of OJ or apple juice and drink that with the grounds. That will give a typical response, the juice technique will make it hit a tad harder and taste better.

If you want to use this technique the I advise you to use 0.5gr and stir this into 1 fluid ounce (2 tablespoons) of lemon juice.

ALWAYS DO MUSHROOMS ONM AN EMPTY STOMACH.

Bon Voyage!

Grimocin (Doctor of Fooly Cooly) 10/11/05 12:21 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... well wouldnt 1gr of ascorbic acid taken with 1gr of cubensis show atleast some potentiation? here's a list of the ingredients.in order that they are on package.

Fructose Ascorbic Acid Carbonates of Potassium Sodium Magnesium & Calcium Citric, Malic, and Tartaric Acids Tapioca Starch Glycine Magnesium Hydroxide Quercetin Manganese Gluconate anyways i'll try it with 4 oz of water and 1gr of powdered cubensis. maybe it'll work maybe it wont. the test will tell, but it'll have to wait til my costa ricans finish

Grumbles420 (Hierophant) 11/11/05 02:29 AM this is out of context but...

Underhill you live in the OK too? I'm a little north of Tulsa, in Owasso myself good to meet another shroomer in the OK I_was_the_walrus (his alter ego) 11/11/05 08:30 AM

Re: this is out of context but...

Tomorrow I will be going to an aussie pink floyd show. Me, and 5 other friends are going to be experimenting with this. A good 6 experienced travelers oughta make this interesting. Ill be sure to take plenty of notes, and post my finding later in the night.

Wish me luck!

Underhillmaster (Mycology Enthusiast) 11/11/05 10:10 AM

Re: this is out of context but...

I plan to trip again tomorrow with the lemon/shroom with a friend. I am also going to wake and shroom for the first time ever lol. I have waked and baked plenty, but never wake and shroom. I should have a nice empty stomach at least

Yay for OK shroomers the_psychonaut (psychonaut) 11/11/05 07:19 PM

Re: this is out of context but... they should put this on mythbusters!! hot48yearolds (Connoisseur of Hallucination) 11/11/05 11:04 PM

Re: this is out of context but... wake and shrooming is so much better than shrooming at night. Me and dimmy did this together a month or two ago and we had a blast. Make SURE TO GO OUTSIDE. go for a walk and just sit in the grass. good luck and have fun.

Cowgold (Wanna Bet?) 11/11/05 11:44 PM

Re: this is out of context but... Psilocybin is a prodrug that is converted into the pharmacologically active compound psilocin in the body by dephosphorylation. This chemical reaction takes place under strongly acidic conditions or enzymatically by phosphatases in the body. sounds like lemon juice just converts it to psilocin quicker and it gets fast tracked through a persons system. sorry if this has already been posted... there's alot of reading i'll have to get on before i'll know.

TerrapinSunrise () 12/11/05 12:04 AM

Re: this is out of context but... underhillmaster (and everyone else!), i'm excited by your own enthusiasm in this project and also that you brought an awareness to the shroomery community. however, this whole phenomenon you discovered (at least on your own) is nothing new in shroomer history. actually, i'm rather surprised that this awareness is only now getting out, at least here at the shroomery.... it is without a doubt the acidity that is responsible for what is happening. i have an old hippie friend down in florida who picks regularly and has been shrooming with obscene doses for at least a quarter of a century. but, about a year ago (i only met him a couple years ago), he told me about his "special recipe" for converting psilocybin into psilocin prior to consumption. his recipe involves a few simple processes using water, heat, and vinegar (2-3ph). he makes a tea out of this concoction and told me of the same effects you and others here are mentioning--namely increased effects and rapid onset. i just wanted to share my thoughts--this is all wonderful stuff. i'm very glad this thread and discussion exists. onward with the experimentation, as you can never stop discovering new intricacies. peace.

PookztA (psytrancer) 12/11/05 12:30 AM

2.5g + 1.5oz Lemon Juice for 5min, + water & sugar = SHROOMADE!

# What liquid are you using? Lemon Juice (little yellow concentrate bottle) . # How much liquid did you drink the powder with? (oz) 1.3oz (shotglass+some) . # Time to "first alert" (aka, "whoa, something's definitely going to happen") Consumed 7:45pm First Feelings: 8:00pm Feeling of peculiarness, something is not right but I am definitely not tripping. I can feel the acid in my stomach sort of buzzing, I know this is going to be fun, I cant wait to let my mind leave. . # Time to onset of visual disturbance .woa shit, 8:10, first visuals starting. Patterns of the CG football field in Madden 2006 are really starting to stick out. I run to my computer to document the first visual disturbance and everything is already starting to go. I think I have realized it too late, my computer speakers are breathing, I can feel the music pulse from their drivers. Ambient Psytrance fills the air, some Entheogenic sets the mood just right. Things are really coming on, but I will have to disappear for a bit. # Time to peak (rough estimate) roughly 2 hours, so gone at this point, I ate the last 1.5g of the bag about 45 minutes after, right when it started to get intense. I never lost my motor functions, im an experienced tripper (about 25 trips) and have a strong, clear mind. . # Time to first sign of diminishing effects About 4.5-5 hours. Diminishing effects does not mean its wearing off, no way, I still find myself taking long periods of time to correctly type words. The speakers are breathing with less intensity, the computer screen glows like a lamp. Shroomery colors are so pretty… . # Time to baseline (indiscernable effects) 6-6.5hours this lasted way longer than I was told it would, maybe it is because I consumed the rest of the 8th at a later point, or perhaps because this was the first time consuming the fruits of my 1st time cultivation, BRF jars spawned to TennStud. Not sure what strain (forgot to label jars initially, oops) but this was an intense trip. This is my new method of consumption! Onset comes much quicker and much smoother, the only stomach disruption I had was a slight feeling of the acid as it diffused throughout my stomach. The acid feeling began after 10 minutes of consumption, and went away before 20 minutes passed as the trip really started to kick up. This is quick, tasty (add water + sugar = lemonade), and most of all, more effective. Im not sure if it is 10x stronger, but I would say it is at least 3-5x, and that’s good enough for me! Thanks shroomery we have started a new trend in mushroom consumption hopefully!

Please also note if you take any other substances, specifically marijuana and whether or not your stomach is empty- This could pose a significant confound. [snyder] Smokd a lot of weed, various bong bowls throughout the trip, confined to my apartment living room in the November Cold, we watched movies, probed each others minds, and pondered what there is to be known. Weed was strongly involved in the trip, although I didn’t feel its affects as much as usual because of how strong the trip was. . Please be warned that although there seems no reason for bodily concern you might end up tripping much harder than you ever did on a similar amount. If you want to take part in this experiment make sure to note all variables that you feel might be important. Theory is less important than systematic observations and independent verification at this point. I_was_the_walrus (his alter ego) 12/11/05 11:54 AM

Re: this is out of context but...

Quote: I_was_the_walrus said: Tomorrow I will be going to an aussie pink floyd show. Me, and 5 other friends are going to be experimenting with this. A good 6 experienced travelers oughta make this interesting. Ill be sure to take plenty of notes, and post my finding later in the night.

Wish me luck!

Results:

I didnt keep track of the times of what not, but heres the break down.

1 gram each (pan. cyan.) ground to a powder...in roughly 30 cc of squeezed fresh lemon.

I didnt partake, instead I went with 3 hits of the white blotter acid.

4 out of 5 experienced exactly what was predicted. I didnt tell them what to expect, I just told them "it was an experiment". They told me stories of tripping way harder than what was typical...big understatement.

All in all it was a very good experience for everybody. Everybody was beyond a level 5, which is not very typical (experienced travelers here).

From what I was told by 4 of my buddies "It feels like satan is possessing the floyd, and they're possessing me"

Ill be the first to admit it. When they played "The Great Gig In The Sky"...I cried. There, I said it....I wept a bit. And Ive never felt better.

StickyWater (*is baked*) 12/11/05 03:35 PM

Re: this is out of context but...

Well, I have a .8 leftover for a trip that didn't quite go as smoothly as had hoped (so I ended up not taking the last .8 just to be on the safe side) so I'm thinking of trying this lemon method myself. I'm not the most experienced tripper, but I've had a good 8 trips so far, so I'm not new either. Bit newer to solo tripping though (twice, once was on a VERY low dose, the other time was only 2g's). Would you recommend I try this solo? Or do you think I might want a sitter for this one? I really have no idea what to expect with this technique, I've done 6g's once, never anything more though.

Drummer (Celestial Mechanic) 13/11/05 02:18 PM

Re: this is out of context but...

Its been over a year since I tripped on psilocybin, so I think I will try this soon. I already have a bunch of powdered shrooms in capsules, and I will pick up a bunch of lemons. I will squeeze the juice by hand and use around 6g of powder. The only reason I am going to do 6g's is because the last time I did the capsules I did 4g's worth and only had a level 1 trip. I dont know what made them weak, but they are.

Thanks for the great new way to consume psilocybin!!

TheKingofLame (Stranger) 13/11/05 09:32 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... how exactly do you get the shrooms to a powder form, i may be over thinking this situation, just grind it up right? i'm tryin it!

Psiledehysp (second mushroom to the left) 13/11/05 10:19 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Coffe grinder! works great.

Gretchenmeister (Nishkey-ay) 13/11/05 10:49 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

WOWIE! bestfriend (boring) 13/11/05 11:48 PM Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

# What liquid are you using? Fresh Lemon/Lime Juice

# How much liquid did you drink the powder with? (oz) 2Lemons + 2Limes + 3,7 g Mexican Powder. clones from a growbox

# Time to "first alert" (aka, "whoa, something's definitely going to happen") ~10 Minutes. it was very strange. it started with the nasty side effects i normaly get after serveral hours (hurting legs, dehydration, hurting eyes, dull feeling all over the body). after this (~30 minutes) the regular effects started (talking turkey, laughing your ass off, strong demand to smoke pot, curiosity) # Time to onset of visual disturbance ~30 Minutes. and they became incomprehensible strong. i didnt even know, that you can that strong OEV from mushrooms. ~4 grams are my regular dose. normaly im able to do normal things like going to a bar, buying food or cooking something

# Time to peak (rough estimate) ~50 Minutes. holy shit. its really hard to describe what happend. i think this was the famous level 5 trip. i smoked a large bowl and started to cough really hard. with every cough something in the room exploded and contracted again. than i started a single, fluently motion for like... 1-2 hours i guess. after this i took all the cushions i could find and stuffed the floor with them. to roll around like a cat in the heat on them. i couldnt find any rest # Time to first sign of diminishing effects ~3 Hours. but it still was VERY strong. 60 Minutes after "dropping" my friend asked me, if we go outside and buy something. After 3 hours i was finaly able to THINK ABOUT/imagine going outside. after 3,5 hours i found the words to tell him

# Time to baseline (indiscernable effects) A Whole Night! i still had some visuals after waking up. summing up: this was way too strong for placebo effects. beware. this is hot shit. but try it, if you dare you wont be disappointed

Blue Helix (old hand) 14/11/05 05:45 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

I tried 0.4 grams of Ausi Pan Cyans soaked 10 minutes in a warm shot of lemon juice from a bottle. Now, I have determined that this batch of Ausi Pan Cyans were extremely strong already (see log). That 0.4 gram dose of Ausi Pan Cyans dried with lemon juice was AT LEAST as strong as 2.5 grams (closer to a full 1/8th) of cubensis without lemon juice. That's at least 5X as strong for me personally as cubensis normally. For those who are saying Pan Cyans are only 3X as strong as cubes, they must be talking a different strain because it's wrong for Ausi for sure. I am not sure how much effect the lemon juice added, but I can't believe how hard I tripped off that 0.4 grams.

NoTiC (Dissociated) 14/11/05 08:16 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

I love the taste of lemons. In fact I have the craving to chew on lemons to the point where my teeth were starting to dissolve. Went from 1 to 22 cavities in 6 months! Now I just have to rely on the sweet memories... jackal1317 (Stranger) 15/11/05 12:51 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

On Saturday night a friend and I tried this.

Each of us had different mushrooms, we put 1.5 grams into a bag and crushed the mushrooms up as much as possible. We used the juice from one fresh lemon and one fresh lime mixed into a cup and added the shrooms. After they sat for 5 minutes we drank them as shots. Twenty minutes later we both felt a little weird but nothing crazy happened, it was just onset.. A few minutes later we ate another 2 grams each and we tripped, but not hard at all. What gives? Oh yeah, and my friend had a completely empty stomach, I had eaten a little bit 4 hours before the shrooms..

LiQuidSlim (Chillin) 16/11/05 05:32 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

There could be a whole lot of reasons why you didn't get a good trip. But I have been reading about these posts with the lemon, lime, or cranberry juice, and I believe also that it increases the intensity of the trip.....It's great! austin_powers (Wash uffitze drive me to firenze) 17/11/05 12:45 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

I am a huge fan of tea, and not much of a fan of straight lemon juice, do you think it would produce the same effects if I soaked the powder in lemon juice, and then poured the lemon juice into a cup of tea? Has anyone tried this?

Mitchnast (Johnny Poppyseed) 17/11/05 05:46 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... ground 8g dried psilocybe seilanceata into dust. split into 2 4g piles some newbies wanted a no nonsense, meaningful first trip.... put the piles into separate glasses of cranberry juice. let sit for 15 min. made myself up same dosage. we went out to smoke a joint. by the time it was done i was well aware of the mushrooms kicking in (25 min after ingestion) i could tell it was comming in a hurry. we came in and i sorta stumbled around, spilled some beer, the other two were acting retarded but claimed no "trip" soon they were talking funny and breathing like they felt as though they made a mistake. about 1 hr after ingestion they were vomiting. i NEARLY vomited too. but the two of them were in a twisted mess around the toilet so i just ignored the urge and realized it was only a mental suggestion anyway, brought on by anxiety. their vomiting was short, but the thought loops kept them in the bathroom focusing on the discomfort. i tried to geth them into a better setting to little avail, keep in mind, i was having a hard time differenciating between mental imagery and reality. the girl soon was lying propped limp against the bathroom door, letting out occasional mournful wails from behind a slack gaping toothy maw and glassy black eyes, not the call of a human, but some wild thing in a state of tracendental confusion.... like thin plastic drawn tightly across a desicated skull, she grinned overly potent, and tumbled over flopping into the folding door closet accross the hallway. her boyfriend just stared at the going-on with a simmilar disdain, "mitch" he asked me "is this normal?" "hmm normal?" i hesitated, normally a question i would give a cryptic double- talk non-answer to. but under the curcumstances all i could do was try to assure him that i could guarentee his survival and that the horror would certainly pass.... of course his confedance in me was shaken at this point. his girlfriend had developed reddish patterns on her neck and torso. and was complaining about dificulty breathing. now i KNEW that wasn't normal.... moving along, people arrived. and they immediately panicked, they saw the mess, they saw the trippers, people were acting wrong and nobody was able to communicate... i seriously began to worry. who were these people, will they call the cops? theres several oz of shrooms and weed around, and i cant summon the will to work the lightswitch. what if they call the medics? the girs was clearly showing signs of an allergic reaction, and although her inability to breathe seemed merely an illusion due to the fact she was actually hyperventhilating, hospitalization would be an uncomfortable and messy nightmare. and moreover unnessisary, dispite evryones apparent insticts. i think the only thing that saved us is that we couldn't stop smiling so it was obvious we had dosed on something crazy. they gave up and left thank god. the girl by this time was unable to will her body to move. she could talk, and cry, and laugh, and make sounds in-between those extremes, but not move. she began to shiver from lying on the cement basement floor, so i proceeded to try to move her, talking calmly and asuringly as possible, i hoisted her up. now i could barely carry a drink at this point, and theres little so cumbersome as a limp human body. her boyfriend wasn't able to help much, but i kept him out front. i felt it was important for their relationship for him to feel dutied in this instance. i also felt that she felt alone in this twisted chaotic hell... so i made sure, by physically moving people around, that evryone was in the best position possible to get the bad vibes beaten off. before long she was well covered and stopped shivering, then, with a refreshing laugh of tormented madness she announced she had to pee. i told her i could help her to the bathroom but the rest is up to her. suddenly she could move quite well. tho it was not long before evryone was back in the bathroom..... that dirty, mildewy bathroom, you know, isn't it funny how mildew grows in layers of shadowy pentagrams? it was like evil was comming out of the mildew. The guy at this point was a little more stable but still flabbergasted. i assured him that only an hour had passed, this surprised the hell out of him, it seemed like forever. he was mostly incommunicado, but i did hear him clomplain about how mushrooms are a shitty drug, he said it was the "worst thing ever" and "why would i want to take this? why would i want to see triangles? how can someone sell this?" that was sorta funny.... because really, how COULD people sell it? it's not that sorta thing now is it? it should be given freely and in this case, it was. anywho, in about 3 hours from ingestion, evryone was down to afterglow. a delightful and refreshing tingle.... and we were able to rest, i apoligized profusely and sincerely for the greif and torment they endured for my folly. but they assured me that it was theior choice and i DID warn them about the intensity rather graphically, none of us really expected how real it was going to become. in those moments where we had broken egos and i took care of them with all my muster, breaking through walls of personal dignity to help the injuries in their hearts by giving all of mine. thats apparently what they remembered. they saw the gift i came offering for what it was, beneith the darkness it made visable. naked wisdom. thats what i offered. and thats what they got, and in the end they understood. still, i will be more careful with dosages in the future. i can say for quite certain there is little possibility of them considering a second journey. they really were beer and pot sorta people. somehow in the darkness, i made greater allies of them. still, be careful with that "juice" thing.

Aldous (enthusiast) 17/11/05 08:31 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

What exactly was the dosage? Did you take 4g and split the other 4g between them two, or did all 3 of you have 4g each? If it's the latter, you fucked up bigtime. 4g with juice is already more than I would do (and I'm not the sensitive type), but you have to remember semi's are a little more potent than cubies. And those people were newbies??

Try to talk them into acid next time, and give them 10 hits each...

Mitchnast (Johnny Poppyseed) 17/11/05 05:45 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

4 grams of liberty caps does not, and has never even REMOTELY equated 10 hits of LSD. ive had trips from 2 hits of acid that were more intense than these particular 4. but hey, thanks for the positive observation. kaniz (That one, over there.) 17/11/05 07:56 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Quote:

e was mostly incommunicado, but i did hear him clomplain about how mushrooms are a shitty drug, he said it was the "worst thing ever" and "why would i want to take this? why would i want to see triangles? how can someone sell this?" that was sorta funny.... because really, how COULD people sell it? it's not that sorta thing now is it? it should be given freely and in this case, it was.

That line made me laugh (all around good trip report, sorry to hear of your friends discomfort). But, I remeber almost a year ago, going to a club and doing mushrooms with my friends - and my one friend trying to explain the triangles he was seeing. Neither me or my other friend was seeing it, and he tried so hard to explain the triangles.

Underhillmaster (Mycology Enthusiast) 18/11/05 01:55 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Be careful with the juice As I have said from the first post in this thread, cranberry and lemon juice can drastically increase how high you get off a given dosage. Although it has not worked for 100% of the people who have tried it(probably around 90%+ at this point though), caution should be used when using these juices. If this method does work for you, you will agree with me that this is the way to get to 'level 5'. However, as always, some people may not really want to go there, and are vastly unprepared once they get there. It can be very difficult to have an enjoyable level 5 trip, especially the first time you get there. So again, dose responsibly and keep the experiment rolling. infinitedot (Stranger) 18/11/05 07:41 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

*** Check updated post in the main forum *** http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4949877/page/ 0/fpart/all/vc/1

*** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor ***

*** The Gummiberry © juice experiment *** *** Gummihuasca © : psilocybin potentiation with a MAO-A Inhibitor + psilocin accelerator = 10X Potency ***

Try this ONLY if it *IS* LEGAL for you to try this. I don't take any responsabilities for this. This MIGHT have unexpected effects. PLEASE be VERY careful about this. If you have got ANY mental/health issues, please do NOT get involved in such a test. If you are on medication please DO NOT try this! This is a serious warning. Under NO circumstances mix MAOIs (Black Currant juice) with any other drugs, specially MDMA [Extacy, pills], MDE, MDA, Cocaine, Crack. Please, be responsible, this HASN'T been properly tested yet to conclude it is totally safe. If you test it, be conscious and totally aware that you ARE taking a risk.

Please, make sure you read this whole post before attempting anything or deciding to take part on this test.

Those considering self-induced exploration should be aware of its complications and make an informed decision. The restrictions here delineated are not meant to be all-encompassing but, rather, are meant to provide general guidelines. Further questions should be directed to your physician.

Keep in mind that I'm *NO EXPERT* whatsoever. Only a curious guy interested in exploring the amazing realms of Consciousness. Like you.

Credit for initial discovery of lemon/lime juice as an enhancer of the strength that lead me to research further possibilities goes to Underhillmaster. He is experienced for more than 20 years and 100 trips and did trials on 20 acquaintances for 6 months and the responses were uniform.

DANGEROUS COMBINATIONS!! READ THIS!! VERY IMPORTANT. IGNORING THIS WHOLE FIRST POST COULD LEAD TO SERIOUS MEDICAL PROBLEMS (like death...)

** FIRST REPORT by incubaby_421 - Confirms 10X expectations ** incubaby_421 has been the first person to test this. He is an experienced tripper, 250-300 trips.

======yes, it did work that AMAZINGLY WELL... when i posted wow and the weird bird thing, i proceeded to melt into my computer monitor, wall paper flowers were growing, carpet was turnign into worms, im talking about fear and loathing shit, NEVER in my history of being bemushroomed have i hallucinated like that, NEVER anyways

Black Currant Juice brand: CurrantC Juice Quantity: 16 oz. Mushrooms species: Psilocybe Cubensis Mushrooms Quantity: 4 gr. dry Did you know the potency of the mushrooms beforehand? (Y/N): Yes, ate from the same crop thrice before. Hours since last meal: 7 h. Description of effects compared vs. no juice:umm... these are relativly potent shrooms, but, god damn, that was more like 6 hits of acid than an eighth of shrooms Description of effects compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice: i have never done shrooms with only lemon or lime, but i did this time, plus the juice, id say that 10x would be a pretty accurate multiplication of the effects... at one point in time i went across the dark house to get some rainbow sherbert, the darkness was just one big ass hyallucination... amazing... Are you positively sure that there IS definitely an improvement in potency? (Y/N): yes Estimated potency compared vs. no juice: 4X-5X Estimated potency compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice: 1.5X-2X Time to "first alert" (aka, "whoa, something's definitely going to happen"): 45 mins. Time to onset of visual disturbance: 60 mins. Time to peak (rough estimate): 4! hours Time to first sign of diminishing effects: 4 1/4 hours Time to baseline (indiscernable effects): 7 hours i just want to say this is by far the hardest i have ever tripped off of anyhting, newbies BE CAREFULL, i have been there, ive ate ounces that didnt do that much before, this could definitly take someone to a very bad place

======dingleberrysalad's report on Lemon/lime Juice:

STEP 1 - Brain, 1. Common sense, 1. Read the whole post, >=2.

Get 1 liter bottle of Ribena Really Light Blackcurrant Squash.

Apparently this brand is only sold in 22 countries, including: Caribbean, UK, Eire, Denmark, Greece, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait, Bahrain, United Arab Emirates, Oman, Yemen, Sri Lanka, Singapore, Malaysia, Australia, New Zealand, Kenya, Nigeria, Mauritius, China, Hong Kong, Japan.

ANY Black Currant Juice brand should work. The difference is the concentration of pure juice. If you cannot find the following ones in your country, check the labels and look for the most concentrated one.

Member incubaby_421 is the first person to have tested it, and he has found this brand, CurrantC concentrate, to be successful, available in the USA, sold at Tops:

Store locator: http://www.currantc.com/index.php?submenu=WhereToBuy&src=directory&vi ew=RetailLocater incubaby_421: "couldnt find suggested brands, so i bought the only one i found, after traveling to three different cities in search of, its called CurrantC, its a 16oz. bottle and is 37% juice, pretty fucking tasty, i might add..."

STEP 2 - Empty stomach, at least 8 hours before intake, 12 h. better, ideally 24h. It *IS* very important to have an empty stomach, AT LEAST 8 hours before intake, as some food combinations might be dangerous with MAOIs and, in rare cases, even might be fatal. Please read on the whole post. STEP 3 - Drink the 750ml. of Black Currant 37% concentrated juice. (= 3/4 of a liter = 24 oz.). It is preferable to not have drank water within 1:30 hour prior to dosing as water affects the pH.

STEP 4 - Wait for 1 hour.

STEP 5 - If you want to test this with lemon/lime juice too:

- Put your mushrooms in a coffee grinder for a while. - Squeeze 1 lemon and 1 lime, or use some lemon/lime concentrate, but do not add water, to keep the acidity. - Leave the mushrooms soaking in the lemon/lime juice for the last 10-15 minutes of that 1 hour waiting after you drank your Black Currant juice.

If you haven't got lemon/lime handy, you can do the same but soaking in Black Currant juice, as it is highly acidic as lemon.

Since heat speeds up chemical reactions, it's easy to assume lack of heat would slow them down. So do NOT refridgerate your juice or fresh fruit if you're going to try this method. Or at least take them out of the fridge a few hours in advance so they have time to reach room temperature.

STEP 6 - Eat the mushrooms (or drink the lemon/lime or Black Currant juice mixed with the mushrooms). After 1-1:30 hours a light snack and fluids can be taken to dilute the acidic stomach contents, for instance a glass of milk or a sandwich with a glass of water.

STEP 7 - Relax. Breathe. Turn off. Tune in. Drop out. Enjoy. Write report.

======

Please report like this, for instance:

- Days since last trip on psychedelics: 8 weeks ago, 1 hit LSD. 6 weeks ago, 4 gr. dry Psilocybe Cubensis - Black Currant Juice brand: Really Light Blackcurrant Squash - Juice Quantity: 750 gr. = 24 oz.(cc. if we assume 1 gr roughly = 1 cc.) - Mushrooms species: Psylocybe Cubensis - Mushrooms Quantity: 3 gr. dry - Did you know the potency of the mushrooms beforehand? (Y/N): Yes, ate from the same crop twice before. - Hours since last meal: 12 h. - Did you put your mushrooms in a coffee grinder for a while? (Y/N): Yes - Did you soak the mushrooms in lemon/lime or BC juice as in STEP 5? (Y/N): Yes, for 10 minutes, squeezed 1 lemon and 1 lime. - Description of effects compared vs. no juice: - Description of effects compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice: - Are you positively sure that there IS definitely an improvement in potency? (Y/N): - Estimated potency compared vs. no juice: 4X-5X - Estimated potency compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice: 1.5X-2X - Time to "first alert" (aka, "whoa, something's definitely going to happen"): 20 mins. - Time to onset of visual disturbance: 45 mins. - Time to peak (rough estimate): 2 hours - Time to first sign of diminishing effects: 5 hours - Time to baseline (indiscernable effects): 7 hours

======

EXPLANATION

Background Data Black Currants are the king of berries with more than twice the antioxidants of blueberries, 4 times the Vitamin C of oranges, more potassium than bananas, and a cache of iron, calcium, magnesium and manganese...

- Psilocybin - pH 5.2 - Psilocybin breaks down in the body to form Psilocin (the good stuff). - Psilocin is unstable in solutions, ESPECIALLY alkaline (Base)ones. - Psilocin is obtained by dephosphorylation (bonding of Phosphate) of psilocybin under strongly acidic or alkaline conditions. - Acidic foods are retained in the stomach for a longer period than non-acidic foods - In a solution when the pH is changed to acidic, the alkaloids will dissolve in water in a salt form.

WHY IT WORKS

1 - The work hypothesis is that fruit juices would break down psilocybin into psilocin when the mushrooms are soaked in the juice for some time before eating them:

Water - pH 7.00 Orange juice - pH 3.30-4.19 Prune juice - pH 3.95-3.97 Plum Nectar - pH 3.45 Apple juice - pH 3.35-4.00 Kiwi juice - pH 3.30-3.80 Pineapple juice - pH 3.30-3.60 Grapefruit juice - pH 2.90-3.25 Pomegranate - pH 2.93-3.20 Vinegar - pH 2.40-3.40 Black Currant juice - pH ~2.7 - with Pectinex BE-3L Enzyme: 2.45 Cranberry juice - pH 2.30-2.52 Lemon juice - pH 2.00-2.60 Lime juice - pH 2.00-2.35

FLUIDS - ACID STANDARDS Ascorbic acid 5% pH 2.0 (MERCK) 0.1N Citric acid 2% pH 2.2 (MERCK) 0.1N Tartaric acid 1.5% pH 2.2 (MERCK) 0.1N Ascorbic acid 1.75% pH 2.3 (MERCK) 0.1N Acetic acid 0.6% pH 2.9 (MERCK) pH of Foods: http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~comm/lacf-phs.html pH of BC: www.vtt.fi/virtual/maxfun/buchert_et_al.pdf

Vitamin C (L-enantiomer of ascorbic acid) per 100 gr. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_C

Billygoat plum 3150 Camu Camu 2800 Tibetan Goji berry 2500 Rosehip 2000 Blackcurrant 200 Guava 100 Kiwifruit 90 Loganberry 80 Redcurrant 80 Papaya 60 Strawberry 50 Orange 50 Raspberry 30 Lemon 40 Lime 20 Raspberry 20 Pineapple 10 Grape 10 Apple 6 Bilberry 1

Manninee: There are several different ways that ascorbic acid/vit c and the chemicals in fruit juices might enhance the passage and/or activation of psilocybin:

(ii) The ascorbic acid functionally interferes with the detoxifying enzymes - Monoamine Oxidases and the family known as cytochrome P450. Citrus flavonoids enhance the absorbtion of vitamin C as well as blocking some aspects of the P450 enzymes (many health food chains sell Vit C/Flavonoid combination pills). These enzymes are in gut cells, the liver and elsewhere. (iii) The other mechanism for prolongation could be the anti-oxidative properties of vitamin c interfering with the dephosphorylation of psilocybin to psilocin somehow - possibly making it a more gradual process.

Which would yield higher contents of psilocin ready to be ingested.

2 - ...and a MAGIC hidden secret gummicompound: Quercetin and Quercitrin, responsible for the MAO-A inhibition, present also in ST. JOHN’S WORT, the popular Hypericum and GINKGO BILOBA. This might lead to further experiments with Mushrooms + St. John's Wort tea, Ginkgo Biloba, ascorbic acid and other juices. Stay tuned.

Consumption of black currants, lingonberries and bilberries increases serum quercetin concentrations European Journal of Clinical Nutrition (2003) 57, 37-42. doi:10.1038/sj.ejcn.1601513 http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v57/n1/abs/1601513a.html

Chemtech June 93 page 63: 50 grams of black currant juice concentrated 5.5 times inhibits 92% of MAO action (ref European patent application 0531155) PATENT: Cerebral-Activating Compositions http://register.epoline.org/espacenet/regviewer?AP=EP19920308053&PN=& CY=ep&LG=en&DB=REG

QUERCETIN is also the most POTENT bioflavonoid http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quercetin

Quercetin is a flavonoid that forms the "backbone" for many other flavonoids, including the citrus flavonoids rutin, hesperidin, naringin and tangeritin. Quercetin is found to be the most active of the flavonoids in studies, and many medicinal plants owe much of their activity to their high quercetin content. Quercetin has demonstrated significant anti-inflammatory activity because of direct inhibition of several initial processes of inflammation. For example, it inhibits both the manufacture and release of histamine and other allergic/inflammatory mediators. In addition, it exerts potent antioxidant activity and vitamin C-sparing action.

On another side of things, Albert Hoffman suggests taking CHOCOLATE in order to speed up and accelerate LSD effects.

"Albert Hoffman [the discoverer of LSD] told me about it with reference to LSD, and he said that there are some receptors that it speeds up, and now we do it with MDMA and it seems to me that it works. They always have to take their orange juice, their pills and the chocolate. I think it has something to do with endorphines." http://ecstasy.org/books/e4x/e4x.ch.09.html

"In pre-Columbian México the mushrooms were served and eaten with chocolate and/or honey." http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_article6.shtml "Dark chocolate derived from the plant (Theobroma cacao) is a rich source of flavonoids. Flavonoid-rich dark chocolate improves endothelial function and is associated with an increase in plasma epicatechin concentrations in healthy adults." http://www.chocolate.org/flavonoids.html

Chocolate improves digestion and elimination where cacao/chocolate countered the effects of stagnant or weak stomachs, stimulated kidneys and improved bowel function. http://www.chocolate.org/history.htm

CONCLUSION

This magic and unbeatable combination of high acidity, MAO-A Inhibition and potent bioflavonoid in relation to certain enzymes which would a allow a greater absorption of active compounds in the stomach is what makes of Black Currant juice the Gummiberry juice.

======IMPORTANT links. Further information about MAOIs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoamine_oxidase_inhibitor - Wikipedia http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/maois/maois.shtml - MAOIs, Erowid http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v06n1/06158mao.html - MAOI Contraindications http://peyote.com/jonstef/maois.htm - Harmala in Syrian Rue as MAOI http://www.acacialand.com/syrian.html - "Leonardo da Vinci and Michelangelo both claimed that, owing to rue's metaphysical powers, their eyesight and creative inner vision had been improved."

------Thought you might find this information interesting.

"Dr. Frescas also mentioned that black current juice is a MAO inhibitor, and when one bottle (diluted) is drunk with MDMA or amphetamine the effect can be felt with increased blood pressure and heart rate."

As published on the book E is for Ecstasy, with contributions from Sasha Shulgin [discoverer of MDMA]. http://ecstasy.org/books/e4x/e4x.ap.01/e4x.ap.01.141.html

Incidentally, this book was seized by Australian customs in 1994, and at last check (May 2000), the official ban on the book was still in force in that country.

Abstract of EP0531155 "The use of an effective monoamine oxidase-inhibitory amount or portion of black currant juice (Ribes nigrum L.) or concentrate or dry extract thereof to activate the brain and central nervous system, in a living animal, especially a human being, in need thereof, and thereby to increase the general cerebral performance, especially in healthy and elderly people, and for the prevention, treatment, and alleviation of neurodegenerative diseases associated with reduced cerebral performance, such as Parkinson's disease, dementia, and mood disorders." http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?IDX=EP0531155

Claims of EP0531155

1. Use of blackcurrant juice or a concentrate or dry extract thereof for the manufacture of an orally administrable medicament for promotion of monoamine oxidase inhibition and/or cerebral stimulation.

2. Use as claimed in claim 1 for manufacture of a medicament for increase of cerebral performance and/or improvement of state of mood and/or prevention or treatment of neurodegenerative diseases in a human subject.

3. Use as claimed in claim 1 or claim 2 wherein said medicament is presented for administration of from 100 mg to 50 grams, preferably 1 gram to 20 grams, of blackcurrant juice or concentrate or dry extract thereof per day.

4.Use as claimed in any of the preceding claims wherein said medicament is presented for administration of from 10 mg to 10 grams, preferably 100 mg to 5 grams, of blackcurrant juice or concentrate or dry extract thereof per unit dosage form.

5. Use as claimed in any of the preceding claims wherein an at least two-fold concentrate of blackcurrant juice is employed.

6. Use as claimed in claim 5 wherein a four-fold to eight-fold concentrate of blackcurrant juice is employed.

7. Use as claimed in claim 6 wherein an approximately 5.5-fold concentrate of blackcurrant juice is employed.

8. Use as claimed in any of claims 1 to 4 wherein a dry extract of blackcurrant juice is employed.

9. Use as claimed in any of the preceding claims wherein the blackcurrant juice or concentrate or dry extract thereof is formulated as a pharmaceutical, food or dietetic food composition.

10. Use as claimed in any of the preceding claims wherein the blackcurrant juice or concentrate or dry extract thereof is formulated as a tablet, coated tablet, syrup, tonic or drink mix. http://v3.espacenet.com/textclam?IDX=EP0531155&QPN=EP0531155

"The invention thus relates to use of black currant juice and concentrates and dry extracts thereof in the manufacture of medicaments for the inhibition of monoamine,oxidase and/or for stimulation of the brain and central nervous sytem, e.g. to increase general cerebral performance, especially in healthy and elderly people, as well as for the prevention, treatment, and alleviation of neurodegenerative diseases associated with reduced cerebral performance, such as Parkinson's disease, dementia, and mood disorders.

Such medicaments may contain a pharmaceutically or orally-acceptable carrier or diluent together with the black currant juice or concentrate or dry extract thereof to facilitate oral administration of such a composition which may, for example, be in the form of a pharmaceutical, food, or dietetic food composition. The diluent or carrier may be adapted for the particular type of composition, which may, for example, be a tablet, a coated tablet, a syrup, a tonic, or a drink mix.The amount of black currant juice, concentrate, or dry extract present or employed is conveniently between 10 mg and 10 g per unit dosage form, preferably between 100 mg and 5 g per unit dosage form, and the black currant juice, concentrate, or dry extract is conveniently administered in an amount between 100 mg and 50 g per day, preferably in an amount between 100 mg and 50 g per day, preferably between 1 and 20 grams per day. The black currant juice is advantageously present in the form of an at least 2-fold concentrate thereof, preferably a 4-fold to 8-fold concentrate thereof, and most especially an approximately 5.5-fold concentrate thereof, or in the form of a dry extract thereof." http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v06n1/06158mao.html Contraindications to the use of MAOIs include severe liver and kidney impairment, severe or frequent headache, uncontrolled hypertension, cardiovascular diseases, and cerebrovascular diseases.(6) Of course, those with psychiatric preconditions, especially prior psychotic breaks, should avoid entheogens, except when mediated by a professional.

Test 5 - Demonstration of cerebro-activating effect in humans

"In a single-blind controlled study the pharmaco-EEG, duration of spiral after- effect (SAE), profile of mood state (POMS), MAO activity (cf. 2), and blood pressure were assessed after the administration of 50 g black currant juice concentrate (5.5-fold) in comparison with orange juice as placebo." http://v3.espacenet.com/textdes?IDX=EP0531155&QPN=EP0531155

"Ribena is a brand of uncarbonated soft drink made by GlaxoSmithKline GlaxoSmithKline, containing blackcurrant juice. The blackcurrant is a temperate shrub which produces small edible berries with a high natural vitamin C content, which are very dark purple/blue in colour—almost black— hence the name. The drink was launched in the 1930s and it was given the name Ribena, from the botanical name for the blackcurrant, Ribes nigrum in 1938. Blackcurrants are a rich source of Vitamin C.

Today Ribena is sold as a cordial and also pre-diluted and marketed in a large variety of flavours (e.g. Blackcurrant, Strawberry and Apple)." http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Ribena Ribena Concentrate:

Ribena: http://www.ribena.co.uk/

# MAOIs in Combination with Psychedelics Generally increase the effects of the psychedelic significantly. Be extremely careful. http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/maois/maois.shtml http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/maois/maois_info8.shtml

Mushrooms Dosage calculator multiplies 2X the effect when using MAOIs. http://www.shroomery.org/index.php/sty/print/spl/0/par/12195/

Are we talking now of a 5X effect with lemon juice plus 2X with Black Currant = 10X EFFECT??

Has anybody tried BLACK CURRANT juice yet? Now THIS together with lemon juice might be THE thing.

IMPORTANT INFORMATION. DO the test with an EMPTY stomach. As per http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/maois/maois_info2.shtml

FOODS TO AVOID with MAOIs

# Alcoholic beverages Avoid Chianti wine and vermouth. # Consumption of red, white, and port wine in quantities less than 120 mL present little risk (Anon, 1989; Da Prada et al, 1988; McCabe, 1986). # Beer and ale should also be avoided (McCabe, 1986), however other investigators feel major domestic (US) brands of beer is safe in small quantities (½ cup or less than 120 mL) (Anon, 1989; Da Prada, 1988), but imported beer should not be consumed unless a specific brand is known to be safe. # Whiskey and liqueurs such as Drambuie and Chartreuse have caused reactions. # Nonalcoholic beverages (alcohol-free beer and wines) may contain tyramine and should be avoided (Anon, 1989; Stockley, 1993).

# Banana peels A single case report implicates a banana as the causative agent, which involved the consumption of whole stewed green banana, including the peel. Ripe banana pulp contains 7 µg/gram of tyramine compared to a peel which contains 65 µg/gram and 700 µg of tyramine and dopamine, respectively (McCabe, 1986). # Bean curd Fermented bean curd, fermented soya bean, soya bean pastes contain a significant amount of tyramine (Anon, 1989).

# Broad (fava) bean pods These beans contain dopa, not tyramine, which is metabolized to dopamine and may cause a pressor reaction and therefore should not be eaten particularly if overripe (McCabe, 1986; Anon, 1989; Brown & Bryant, 1988).

# Cheese Tyramine content cannot be predicted based on appearance, flavor, or variety and therefore should be avoided. # Cream cheese and cottage cheese have no detectable level of tyramine (McCabe, 1986; Anon, 1989, Brown & Bryant, 1988).

# Fish Fresh fish (Anon, 1989; McCabe, 1986) and vacuum-packed pickled fish or caviar contain only small amounts of tyramine and are safe if consumed promptly or refrigerated for short periods; longer storage may be dangerous (Anon, 1989). # Smoked, fermented, pickled (Herring) and otherwise aged fish, meat, or any spoiled food may contain high levels of tyramine and should be avoided (Anon, 1989; Brown & Bryant, 1988).

# Ginseng Some preparations have resulted in a headache, tremulousness, and manic-like symptoms (Anon, 1989).

# Protein extracts Three brands of meat extract contained 95, 206, and 304 µg/gram of tyramine and therefore meat extracts should be avoided (McCabe, 1986). # Avoid liquid and powdered protein dietary supplements (Anon, 1989).

# Meat nonfresh or liver # no detectable levels identified in fresh chicken livers # high tyramine content found in spoiled or unfresh livers (McCabe, 1986). # Fresh meat is safe, caution suggested in restaurants (Anon, 1989; Da Prada et al, 1988). # Sausage, bologna, pepperoni and salami contain large amounts of tyramine (Anon, 1989; Da Prada et al, 1988; McCabe, 1986). # No detectable tyramine levels were identified in country cured ham (McCabe, 1986).

# Sauerkraut Tyramine content has varied from 20 to 95 µg/gram and should be avoided (McCabe, 1986).

# Shrimp paste Contain a large amount of tyramine (Anon, 1989).

# Soups Should be avoided as protein extracts may be present; miso soup is prepared from fermented bean curd and contain tyramine in large amounts and should not be consumed (Anon, 1989).

# Yeast Brewer's or extracts - yeast extracts (Marmite) which are spread on bread or mixed with water, # Brewer's yeast, or Yeast vitamin supplements should not be consumed. # Yeast used in baking is safe (Anon, 1989; Da Prada et al, 1988; McCabe, 1986).

The foods to use with caution list categorizes foods that have been reported to cause a hypertensive crisis if foods were consumed in large quantities, stored for prolong periods, or if contamination occurred. Small servings (½ cup, or less than 120 mL) of the following foods are not expected to pose a risk for patients on MAOI therapy (McCabe, 1986).

FOODS TO USE WITH CAUTION (½ cup or less than 120 mL)

Alcoholic beverages - see under foods to avoid.

Avocados - contain tyramine, particularly overripe (Anon, 1989) but may be used in small amounts if not overripened (McCabe, 1986).

Caffeine - contains a weak pressor agent, large amounts may cause a reaction (Anon, 1989).

Chocolate - is safe to ingest for most patients, unless consumed in large amounts (Anon, 1989; McCabe, 1986).

Dairy products - Cream, sour cream, cottage cheese, cream cheese, yogurt, or milk should pose little risk unless prolonged storage or lack of sanitation standards exists (Anon, 1989; McCabe, 1986). Products should not be used if close to the expiration date (McCabe, 1986).

Nuts - large quantities of peanuts were implicated in a hypertensive reaction and headache. Coconuts and brazil nuts have also been implicated, however no analysis of the tyramine content was performed (McCabe, 1986).

Raspberries - contain tyramine and small amounts are expected to be safe (McCabe, 1986).

Soy sauce - has been reported to contain large amounts of tyramine and reactions have been reported with teriyaki (Anon, 1989), however analysis of soy sauce reveals a tyramine level of 1.76 µg/mL and fermented meat may have contributed to the previously reported reactions (McCabe, 1986).

Spinach, New Zealand prickly or hot weather - large amounts have resulted in a reaction (Anon, 1989; McCabe, 1986).

DRUGS to AVOID with MAOIs. If you are on medication please DO NOT try this! As per http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/maois/maois_info3.shtml

To be as safe as possible, avoid the following drugs while you are taking an MAOI antidepressant and for two weeks after stopping it. * All SSRIs (prozac, zoloft, and several other anti-depressants) SSRIs block the reuptake of serotonin in the brain. Because MAOIs inhibit the breakdown of serotonin, the combination of MAOIs and SSRIs can lead to dangerously high levels of serotonin in the brain (serotonin syndrome). Symptoms of serotonin syndrome include nausea, vomiting, blackouts, memory loss, increased blood pressure and increased heart rate. * Demerol * Cold preparations (tablets, capsules, or liquids such as Comtrex) * Cough medications containing decongestants, Dextromethorphan (DXM)1, or Demerol * Sinus medications * Nose drops or nasal sprays * Nasal decongestants * Hay fever medications * Diet pills * Amphetamines --- speed * MDMA --- Ecstasy * MDE, MDA, and other "MD" compounds * Cocaine --- crack

MAOIs can and will dramatically increase the effects of some of these drugs to the point of becoming dangerous. Other plants and chemicals are intentionally combined with some reversible MAOIs (plants such as Syrian Rue or Banisteriopsis Caapi, or their primary active chemicals the harmala alkaloids) to intentionally increase the effects of chemicals such as DMT (as is done in many forms of the ayahuasca brew) or sometimes phenethylamines such as Mescaline or 2-CB. All of these "potentiating" combinations can be dangerous if used improperly.

** Further studies related with Black Currant juice **

Effect of blackcurrant-, cranberry- and plum juice consumption on risk factors associated with kidney stone formation. Kessler T, Jansen B, Hesse A. Division of Experimental Urology, Department of Urology, University of Bonn, Bonn, Germany. Eur J Clin Nutr. 2002 Oct;56(10):1020-3

Blackcurrant juice increased the urinary pH and the excretion of citric acid. The excretion of oxalic acid was increased too.

CONCLUSION: It is concluded that blackcurrant juice could support the treatment and metaphylaxis of uric acid stone disease because of its alkalizing effect. http://www.anti-aging-guide.com/41fruits.php

Also, the concentration of juice has to be known beforehand and before measuring the amount to drink. As per http://www.ribena.ie/about_ribena/products.html,

Ribena Concentrate (400ml, 600ml, 1 litre, 2 litre): Original Blackcurrant "At our recommended dilution rate, you can get around 33 servings from a 1 litre bottle – so a little Ribena goes a long, long way." I don't know what's the dilution rate they are recommending.

I'm taking as the typical serving 1 glass of juice = 300 cc. of juice. that means, at their recommended dilution rate, I'm guessing: 1000 cc / 33 servings = 30.3 cc. recommended / glass = a 10X concentrate?

Anybody can please check this and see if we are talking about a 5.5X, a 10X concentrate or what.

Ribena is recommended unless anybody finds a stronger concentrate.

Really Light Blackcurrant Squash 1 litre should be the strongest one (name is due only to lower sugar content). It's Blackcurrant Juice from Concentrate (7%) (once diluted on 5X water) Product before dilution contains 35% juice.

50 gr. of 5.5X concentrate used in the Patent equals = 275 gr. of Pure juice. To get 275 gr. of Pure juice, diluted 35% we need:

350 gr. pure per 1000 gr. 275 gr. pure -> (1000*275)/350 = 785 gr. of concentrate.

That's 3/4 of a liter needed, unless someone finds a stronger concentrate. http://www.ribena.co.uk/accessible/our_drinks/index.html

If it cannot be found, another brands found are:

Ribes http://www.schilcherland.at/english/products/juice.htm#Ribes

Psiledehysp (second mushroom to the left) 18/11/05 02:16 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

Wow thats just too much, thats crazy... first lemon juice now cranberry - and the latter was in fact studied to show MAO-I properities in humans.

But black curant (BC) juice with mdma? isnt combining maoi and E dangerous? Anyway BC juice with mushrooms sound like next experiment and to put lemon juice on top of that, thats just insanity if that works...

Mitchnast (Johnny Poppyseed) 18/11/05 04:50 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute] double damn.

Aldous (enthusiast) 18/11/05 08:06 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Quote: Mitchnast said: 4 grams of liberty caps does not, and has never even REMOTELY equated 10 hits of LSD.

I meant 4 grams with cranberry juice potentiation (x2 or x3, according to the thread starter). I guess you could say 4 grams of semi's roughly equal 5 grams of cubes. The usual newbie dose... WITHOUT juice.

Still, you didn't answer my question: did you give them 2g each or 4g each?

Mitchnast (Johnny Poppyseed) 18/11/05 10:25 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

4, but it was HARDLY potentiated to the equivilant of 10g, ive had 10, it wasnt NEARLY that insane. secondly, it was also not potentiated to twice the effects of the dosage (as dosage ammount and potency arent nesisarily parralelle measures) if anything, the psychadellic effects were slightly higher, and the body-load was intensified mightly. also, 4 g libs is a little more than a USUAL newbie dose, it was clearly a risky one. i just figured with my GD music, emersive video games and trip toys, and experience in smoothing out situations, i could overcome intensity. and i COULD have. if not for the bizzare seemingly-allergic reaction the girl had. i mean, technically she could have had an allergic reaction from one gram. the trip had its good points for evryone, the real clinch was the non-trip effects. the stuff that diddn't relate to potency factors, IE, indigestion and possible anaphalaxis. the guy was so close to having a good time, but for the worry he had for possibly poisoning his GF, a little paranoia can go a long way. yes it was a high dose. no, its not like a 10 strip of LSD, not even 5. 2 hits of lsd hits me about as hard for 4 hours as i was for the 30 min peak of these libs. now that i think about it, id like to do that again (not dose the newbies, but myself) i missed out on the fun while tending to them. tony8404 (Stranger) 18/11/05 11:02 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... hey guys, i have 2.5 grams of mushies. i wanna try this with cranberry tonight. is there a certain kind of cranberry juice to use or will anything cranberry juice work? also, is 2.5 grams to much to use with cranberry juice? i wanna buy a cranberry juice drink from the gas station you know the small glass bottle ones at gas stations for like 2.00 dollars... i am gonna then grind 2.5grams into powder and place into the glass bottle seal and shake and let sit for half an hour to soak in good. how does that sound... oh yeah i have tripped alot in my times just as an fyi for dosages ...what ya guys think?

Psiledehysp (second mushroom to the left) 18/11/05 11:15 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Why are you guys using cranberry juice? UnderHillMaister got much higher potentiation wih lemon juice and this whole thread and experiment is just about that: using lemon juice - its more acidic than cranberry. tony8404 (Stranger) 18/11/05 11:26 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... hey guys, i have 2.5 grams of mushies. i wanna try this with lemon juice tonight. how much lemon juice do you guys recommend? and is 2.5 grams to much to use with lemon juice? i am gonna then grind 2.5grams into powder and place into the glass with lemon juice and let sit for half an hour to soak in good. how does that sound... oh yeah i have tripped alot in my times just as an fyi for dosages ...what ya guys think?

Demotriton (Chemical Prophet) 19/11/05 12:45 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

I am trying this tonight too. perhaps in an hour or so. I will be using Lemon juice from real lemons. I am taking 1.5 grams based on my experience with an MAOI and mushrooms. I think 2.5 grams is a little high tony8404. I have read most of this thread and it sounds like most people have been taking around 1 gram and tripping balls. tony8404 (Stranger) 19/11/05 02:37 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... hey demotrition... thanks for responding to me.. i think im gonna wait till tommorrow night myself i have my baby tonight .. could u let me know your results so i can try tommorrow and i will let you know

DyeGreen (Stranger) 19/11/05 03:49 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Please help me out.

Me and buddy (he's not going to do it) are chillin here watching Phish: IT.

I have about an 8th, a bit less. I have absolutely no way to measure anything, and I have some "ReaLemon 100% lemon juice" made from concentrate. Says "Water, concentrated lemon juice, sodium benzoate sodium metabisulfire and sodium sulfite (preservatives) and lemon oil".

First of all, will that stuff work? How much should I take, a shot? Should I warm it?

Second question, how exaclty do a grind up shrooms, no coffee maker here, can I just use a bowl and a spoon or somthing into a paste?

Biggest question... how much to take? I'm pretty sure they're cubes, dried, and there are a few small caps in the bag about the size of a dime? would one of those do?

Quick responces would be great, cause it's est time here and i wanna try it tonight! And about how long could I expect it to last? I'd prolly wanna do about the equal to doing like half an 8th.

Thanks so much tony8404 (Stranger) 19/11/05 04:35 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... allright dude.. take a baggy and put your shrooms in it and smash em up till they turn to powder .. then take a piece of paper and pour out the shroom dust and make two even piles.. once thats done take two small glasses and pour and even amount of that juice .. then put a pile of dust in each let it sit for 15 minutes and take it like a shot

Mitchnast (Johnny Poppyseed) 19/11/05 06:27 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... i got an idea. perhaps a dangerous one. at bulk barn you can buy asorbic acid in powder form..... you know, vitamin c? hmmmm. perhaps a concentrated bath of the old vitamin c and water, perhaps slightly selenic to aid in body absorbtion. vitamin C in powdered form is quite acidic and sour. that ought to do the trick. to say the least, vitman C is essential for humans, fruit bats and a few others (most animals can synthesize their own) and consuming crazy ammounts of it will actually clear the plaque from your arteries and aid in flushing out all those nasty pollutants. someone could get some asorbic acid for the experement, and keep it for their health.

MrClam (Mountaineer) 19/11/05 06:51 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Do you think this would work with fresh mushrooms?

Maybe mash them into a paste then add the lemon juice?

It seems that the only real necessity is for the mushrooms to have greatly increased surface area, in order for the lemon juice to dissolve it. Just a thought.

DyeGreen (Stranger) 19/11/05 05:39 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

So I didnt end up doing it last night but I plan to soon.

Now that I have some time, how long should I let my powder sit inside my lemon juice? Can I just leave it out or put it in the fridge?

I'll report on it as soon as I do it, possibly tonight.

Psiledehysp (second mushroom to the left) 19/11/05 06:01 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

15 minutes should be fine. DO NOT use the fridge, some reports of failure included fridge. Cold temperature possibly slows down molecules and takes away from rapid absorbtion - so room temperature or *slightly* warm should be best. good luck.

Demotriton (Chemical Prophet) 19/11/05 09:36 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Heres an answer to your question tony8404.

I tried the lemon method last night with what ended up being a little less than 1.5 grams. I fasted for 7 hours prior let the powered dried shrooms soak in the juice of real lemons for 20mins but 15 should be good. I filtered out the shroom dust, drank, then ate the shroom powder.

Overall I got about double the effects I normally would get from 1.5 grams, Wish I would have taken more, as my usually dose is 4 grams.

If I were you tony8404 I would take half of what I normally take with the lemon juice.

Mitchnast (Johnny Poppyseed) 19/11/05 11:22 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... [gradient:#CC0033,#0000FF] ascorbic acid [/gradient] im gonna try it soon, i invite others to do so also. ascorbic acid is the acid in cranberry juice and is greater in lemon juice. im wondering what will happen if one were to simply put dried mushroom powder, a teaspoon of ascorbic acid powder and a pinch of salt (for electrolytes) into luke warm water and let it sit for 15 min or so then slammed it. i remind you ascorbic acid is available at bulk barn. or any bulk shop. its pure vitamin C

DyeGreen (Stranger) 20/11/05 02:34 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Ya know I could have sworm I heard that Vit. C will kill a trip!

MrClam (Mountaineer) 20/11/05 03:24 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... i heard it intensifies

PyroCin (mike hunt) 20/11/05 03:54 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... i'l give it a go

Underhillmaster (Mycology Enthusiast) 20/11/05 10:09 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Hehe, I know its a lot to read, but read the whole thread. Wiccan-Seeker, the mod who stickied this experiment of mine, tried with abscorbic acid and had very comparable results to lemon. Not enough research has been done yet to see if one is better than the other. Its the acidity doing the major trick here, not the vitamin c btw. infinitedot (Stranger) 21/11/05 12:04 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Hey UnderhillMaster! Your post gave me some food for thought and I began investigating about this as well. Apparently incubaby_421 has tried Black Currant Juice, as a MAOI and he confirms the improved strength.

I'm only speculating here now. Maybe lemon/lime or ascorbic acid have got a different property, whatever the strongest of those is, which can ALSO be combined with Black Currant Juice as an added multiplier of the potency.

Anyway, this seems to be a great experiment! You opened the Pandora's box! tony8404 (Stranger) 21/11/05 12:44 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... demotrition. i am about to put just about 2 grams with lemon juice.. just not sure how much juice to use.? tony8404 (Stranger) 21/11/05 12:47 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... how much lemon juice do u need to use ?

PIPBoy2000 (Stranger) 21/11/05 01:19 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

You guys really should try powdering up the shrooms, throw them in a tall glass of grapefruit juice, then chug it down. I've found grapefruit juice to work very well.

Mitchnast (Johnny Poppyseed) 21/11/05 05:36 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... grapefruit juice has aspects that significantly increse bioavailabilty of opoids also. Wiccan_SeekerModerator (ex-addict since dec '02) 21/11/05 06:37 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

VVV see below

Wiccan_SeekerModerator (ex-addict since dec '02) 21/11/05 06:37 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Quote: Wiccan-Seeker, the mod who stickied this experiment of mine, tried with abscorbic acid and had very comparable results to lemon.

I used a fluid ounce (30ml) of 5% vitamin C in water and got a whopping 4-5x potentiation, and I used 25ml of supermarket lemon juice

and got 2-3x potentiation.

But now things will get weird, very weird. Yeserday I took my (empty stomach) morning coffee and mixed in the brewed coffee a heaping tablespoon of ascorbic acid (3-5gr) to see if potentiation by organic acids was perhaps universal. Now this cup, taken on an empty stomach without milk) contained approximately 200 mg caffeine an amount I know thoroughly. Could it be potentiated?

And it was. My morning mug was quite stimulating, I got a chest-pressure and had a vomit bucket sitting next to the desk because I was so nauseous from the caffeine overstimulation.

I aborted it with 200mg Lithium carbonate (Lithium knocks stimulants flat, I have a few tabs lying around for cases like this) and within 45 minutes the chest-presure and nausea subsided *exactly as it would if they were overstimulation side effects* in very drastic relief. (pharmacologcal confirmation)

So kids: the acid hypothesis holds true and this is BIGGER than Psilocybin alone. Fruit acids (lemon/cranberry juice and 5% ascorbic acid)

This might mean that another herbal people try to conserve, poppyhead tea, may be potently (perhaps dangerously) enhanced by adding a heaping teaspoon to the tea. Probably one of the next experiments would be ascorbic/lemon taken with MDMA. do not try this at home kids!

So it goes further than Psilocybin and it alters the properties of BREWED coffee, meaning if added AFTER extraction. I banged out 15 kilobytes of .txt before stimulant sickness overcame me.

I was reminded of how mineral supplements are best absorbed if they are bound to organic acids (for instance Zinc citrate vs the ZnCl2 formed from ZnO in the stomach) and how this somehow bypasses stomach acidity according to some study) which is the reason these are incorporated into mineral supplements.

The most common supplement acids are gluconic acid and citric acid, which are analogous to ascorbic acid and lemon juice respectively.

We are definately on to something big here.

Ramuh (Finder of the subbs) 21/11/05 06:52 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

I'll try using ascorbic acid solutions with some other chemicals whenever I get the chance. This sounds like an interesting experiment.

It is possible that I will be obtaining MDMA this weekend for use, but I wouldn't count on it. MDMA doesn't dissolve well in water, though, does it? Would it dissolve well in the acidic solution?

Just crush up the pill and stir it in? Err, actually more like half a pill to start with just in case this works well.

Underhillmaster (Mycology Enthusiast) 21/11/05 08:11 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

I know its a super long thread lol. There have been many working theories and experiments with various liquids. A general consensus so far is lemon>cranberry>grapefruit>orange. All of these fruits affect stomach enzymes to varying degrees. All of these are also highly acidic, with lemon being the most acidic. The working theory is that the high acidity starts the psylocybin conversion to psylocin in solution, so that when you actually drink it, you are drinking a high concentration psylocin solution. This saves you stomach the time of having to convert it itself. This means that you have a lot of psylocin available to be absorbed as soon as it hits your stomach. You also get the benefit of increased surface area from your shrooms being powdered in a liquid solution. Throw in the stomach enzyme action of these fruit juices, and you are able to absorb more psylocin at once. There could very well be more going on, but those are the 3 big factors, with acidity being the big thing.

There have been a few people who have mentioned trying lemon method with a MAIO. They had mentioned Syrian Rue, but I don't think that anyone ever tried it. The Black Currant juice sounds very promising. When trying it for max effect, it might be a good idea to drink your currant juice an hour or more before you take your lemon shrooms. Sort of preload your system with MAIO action. Maybe drink another glass to chase your lemon shroom drink. From my knowledge of MAIO interaction with shrooms, it can often lengthen a trip. This could help offset the shortness of lemon trips for some people. Its gonna be a while before I trip again, but I will try to get some currant juice for the next time. I also plan to get some X for the new year, and would love for someone to try that with lemon before then lol. Anyway, the experiment is obviously moving on its own momentum now, as I knew it would, this is big stuff. Keep up the good work everybody.

Nickster_154371 (Hobbyist) 21/11/05 10:01 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

I just came across this thread now... Im sure its been said many times, but can someone please clear something up for me: For maximizing the potency of mushrooms one must grind the shrooms into a powder, mix w/ a shot of store-bought lemon juice, then down like a shot? Or must one soak their dried mushies in lemon juice for 10 min. then eat them? This all sounds very interesting and I am looking forward to trying it!

Tsinaglou (40 years for plants, now it's time for the fungi..) 21/11/05 04:18 PM

Re: lemon-lime test

# Used .5gms cubes, made tea from .7gms of the same lot ten days ago.

# What liquid are you using? Juiced one lemon and one lime. Put 2 oz. juice on the shroom powder. Stirred and let sit 30 minutes. . # How much liquid did you drink the powder with? 2 oz., followed with about an ounce of water to rinse the glass and my mouth. Was surprised to find the water tasted quite sweet... . # Time to "first alert" (aka, "whoa, somethings definitely going to happen") Incremental onset, definite by 30 minutes. . # Time to onset of visual disturbance- 50 minutes (about) . # Time to peak (rough estimate)-about 70 or 80 minutes . # Time to first sign of diminishing effects-didn't write this down, maybe 120 minutes . # Time to baseline (indiscernible effects)-This was a slower comedown for me than some of you reported; after beginning to notice a return to normality it was another two hours before I was back enough to sleep.

Please also note if you take any other substances, -I had eaten lightly 3 1/2 hours earlier. . COMMENTS: This was MUCH stronger than the .7 gms I'd done recently. I'd guess at least 3x as strong. The .7 gms tea was pleasant but very wimpy, while the .5 gms "juiced powder" gave me visuals like crazy as well as significant time distortions. I don't much get visuals and these were pretty fun. Overall had a nice sense of well-being for most of the time.

I found it somewhat physically unpleasant. My lower gut hurt (no nausea) in a way I didn't expect and I spent several hours in bed trying to get warm. I'd never had strong chills from shrooms before. I also noticed a larger degree of clumsiness than I'd noticed before; almost missed a chair while sitting down when the trip was almost over.

This seemed harder on my body than straight up shrooms. It's definitely stronger, but if there are plenty of shrooms I'm not sure that it's an improvement... In a few weeks I'll try again and see if I still get chills. The differences in my physical response make me suspect more than speed of absorption is changed. I think there must be some other chemical alteration going on. Maybe complexing with the ligand of the weak acid like Wiccanseeker suggests.

Underhillmaster, You really found something here! Thanks for getting the thread started.

Tsin

GoKart (Dr.) 21/11/05 11:09 PM

Re: lemon-lime test

Man, why didn't I checked this thread out before I tripped on Friday

I'm a medium lightweight (shroom wise), I weigh just over 10 stone (I'm a veggie ), 18 years old, on Friday I had 1.5g's of dried P. Cyanescens and had a bad trip, I didn't give it time to get any more intense and started throwing up like crazy and tried everything I could to stop the trip and succeeded to a certain degree. I'm up for trying this lemon juice shot thing in about a month, does anyone have a vague idea on how many dried grams of P. Cyanescens I should have in this experimental way?

PIPBoy2000 (Stranger) 22/11/05 05:44 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Yes it does, every try dissolving percocets in grapefruit juice? psychedelix (Growling Mad Scientist) 22/11/05 06:06 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

Anyone know if theres a difference between leaving the lemon juice shroom cocktail for 5 min and 30 mins? Does it have an effect on intensity? hot48yearolds (Connoisseur of Hallucination) 22/11/05 09:10 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

I had mine sit in lemon juice for 6 hours the other night, and it was pretty damn intense. I would say it does help to sit them longer. psychedelix (Growling Mad Scientist) 22/11/05 10:55 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

WTF Dude, is that an icon of mckenna? That shit's just on a different level... speaking of different levels..... => http://www.break.com/articles/houselights.html dbl click for fullscreen

Note: I watched this comming down off shroom trip and I was laughing histerically... Would that be normal? 888 (Stranger) 22/11/05 12:31 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

I'd like to suggest another line of thinking... Could it be that the potential of any substance being utilized by the body is in fact completely related to the bodies ability to process it. Which means if you ate a natural diet of fresh grown vegetables, fruits, and mushrooms your body would have plenty of the things your body needs to works at an optimum level. Vitamin C is vital to your body and is used most when your body is under stress. Raw veges and fruits have lots of vitamin C. I think the next experiment is to eat all raw foods for a week before tripping. Or try splitting a bell pepper up for stages of the trip.

I do have one experience to add but I don't suggest anyone try it. I once drank a mushroom tea and then smoked syrian rue seeds... I smoked them 15 minutes after drinking the tea maybe. = I instantly went to peak and it stayed up for the trip.... the rue gave the trip a different feel though. I'd prefer without it. Plus maois can be dangerous if you forget to take precautions. reshi I think could boost a trip... I can feel the affects of reshi and I think it would be synergetic. demius (seeker) 22/11/05 09:18 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

I tried this over the weekend with a friend.

We tripped Friday nite at 2.25 grams each. I was quite surprised the tolerance seemed overcome by the lemon juice, especially since we tripped a lower dose.

Come Saturday, less than 24 hours later, she and I each ate 1.25 grams of dried cubensis followed by a shot of fresh squeezed lemon each...not powedered and mixed. Within 15 mins. of eating the shrooms, I began having nice visuals. Within the next 30 mins., the trip started to take a different turn. It got heavy, fairly quickly, but was not unbearable.

I had some revelations and an enjoyable time. The total trip, from start till sleep lasted for 5 hours; even as I was attempting to go to sleep, I was not completely down.

My friend, however did not have as much of a trip. It took an hour or so for her to kick off. She said she had some strong viusals but few profound thoughts...more of a clearing of the mind. I will be trying smaller doses with lemon juice in the future to see just how powerful this could be. ele (Stranger) 23/11/05 04:25 AM

Re: lemon-lime test

I heard previously to this thread that acid enhances trips, and after reading all this, I was enthusiastic to aid to the effort.

I'm mid 20's male and ~160lbs. At 1pm I consumed 3 grams of authentic Golden Caps (the heads were a shiny vibrant gold, with blue root ends) along with .5 liters of MinuteMaid Lemonade (this trip was by myself). I chewed the mush in my mouth into the smallest pieces possible (to the point that chewing anymore wouldn't make it any finer) and then swallowed. Then I took a large swig of lemonade, and then repeated till both mush and drink were in my stomach.

About 30 min later I walked to get some food, and as I was waiting in line, I started feeling less in control of my body. I quickly got the food, and sucessfully walked home, where I ate it (2 slices of pizza...typical size, along with a coke).

About 1 hour into, I was tripping the hardest I ever had. Easily a level 5 experience. My mindset before tripping was for scientific and spiritual purposes. While peaking, I had no ego, I couldn't comprehend myself nor my enviroment, and spent my time anaylizing how I felt. I determined I was god, along with everything in the world around me.

I remembered thinking to myself, "So this is what monks feel like when they achieve spiritual enlightenment." I thought to myself a common spiritual question that people ask each other, "Do you believe in God?"...and I started laughing hysterically and uncontrollably. I thought to myself, "well it doesn't matter how you answer it, because you are god along with the person that asked you..so OF COURSE there is god!!"

My come down was about 5 hours later, and was verrryyy sloww. I wasn't sober until 11. I couldn't comprehend anything I just went through, and all I did was ponder my trip.

For now on I am eating my shrooms with lemonade. waixingren (I am the Frizzle Fry) 23/11/05 05:20 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Quote: demius said: I was quite surprised the tolerance seemed overcome by the lemon juice, especially since we tripped a lower dose.

this is pretty interesting. it would be great if tolerence were no longer a factor. i think some experimenting should be done here.

--waixingren incubaby_421 (half naked and full witted) 23/11/05 05:49 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... ele check out the black currant juice thread you might find it interesting shroompower (Stranger) 24/11/05 03:29 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... anyone seen this visual before while halucinating? i am very keen to talk to anyone who [email protected]

PyroCin (mike hunt) 25/11/05 05:07 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... tried it with grapefruit juice with only a couple fresh mushrooms not even a gram dried and got something off of it

Jfisher (fungus aficionado) 25/11/05 11:49 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

I mixed 3.5 grams of dried cubensis into a cup of guava juice last time I tripped, with no expectation of altering the effect of the shrooms. I began feeling effects after about 20 minutes, and the come up was very intense. I reached a level 4+ trip. The person I was with put his portion into a burrito, and had a noticably less intense trip.

After a little research I found that guava juice has a lot more vitamin C: Guava juice has 146.4mg/100g while lemon juice has 46mg/100g. If someone wanted to go all out, they would mix their mushrooms into acerola juice: 1600mg/100g...

Anyone have acerola juice? If vitamin c is correlated, it could be quite a ride.

DyeGreen (Stranger) 26/11/05 04:30 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Sorry for not being logical? But if Vit C is the key, cant I just grind up some Vit C pills into any liquid and put the powdered shrooms in with them?

MrClam (Mountaineer) 26/11/05 05:05 AM

Re: I may have discovered something... acidity is the key requiem99 (Stranger) 27/11/05 06:34 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

This is all with 1g of powdered cubes, nothing special about the strain or anything, I usually took an eighth of these to trip with good visuals. With this 1g in the shotglass grapefruit juice method I got more than I normally get off 3.5g -- I know mushrooms and I know my body, this was no placebo. I'm not ever doing shrooms any other way.

# What liquid are you using? - Grapefruit Juice . # How much liquid did you drink the powder with? (oz) - about 4oz . # Time to "first alert" (aka, "whoa, something's definitely going to happen") - 10 minutes . # Time to onset of visual disturbance - 40 minutes . # Time to peak (rough estimate) - 90 minutes . # Time to first sign of diminishing effects - approx 200 minutes, smoked pot and it came back up to peak immed . # Time to baseline (indiscernable effects) - unknown, reboosted the trip with pot 3 times and then crashed perfectsphere (colliding with our fate) 27/11/05 07:58 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... [now a community experiment - please contribute]

I started off slow last night and took .85g dried cubes in 2.5oz of fresh lemon juice. The mixture sat for 15 minutes before I drank it. I had fasted for 6 hours previous to the trip.

My time to first alert was 30 minutes, and it was in full swing at T+60. Peaked at 90 minutes, and I was back to near-baseline 3.5 hours after first ingesting them.

I reached a low Level 2 which isn't bad for .8g, but it couldn't have potentiated more than ~2.5x, and it was SHORT!!! Discernible effects only lasted for 2.5 hrs tops. haysanatar (trippologist) 27/11/05 10:04 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... hitchhikers guide to the galaxy knew it all along.. think about it.. what did they put in the thinking hat to make whats his face.. better.. lemons.. yeah.. and we all know that movie was made for drugs.. by drugs.. ps I plan on doin 2 grams not ground but finely cut in lemon juice tonight to see if works.. and I aint a light tripper a small dose for me is.. 5grams so.. we'll see

Bamaman (...has issues.) 28/11/05 03:38 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

I have now tried this acidic method 4 times; 1g the 1st time, 3g the 2nd time, 6g the 3rd time, and 7g night before last. Each time I used fresh lemon/limes on a empty stomach and was stoned before during and after.

IMHO...

+'s

Stronger visuals(incl. CEV's), definitely. Shorter trip, a little. Faster comedown, definitely. Less nausea, definitely. Less anxiety, definitely. ______

-'s

Shorter trip, a little. Weaker mental tripping, definitely. Weaker euphoric waves, definitely. ______

I feel there is definitely something to be gained from ingestion w/highly acidic juices. It all depends on what you want out of your trip and I suppose the duration, time and place you want to take them.

I felt as if the acidic ingestion method left me much more socially capable than just straight chewing. Better mental focus and less anxiety were probably to two most noticeable reasons for this.

I will say that even though the visuals seemed dramatically increased, the mental trip was far short of what I would have normally expected to accompany it. Except for...the bathroom.

As I am sure many of you know, and I have even seen a thread or 3 on the subject here, using the bathroom(#1or2), can be an intense moment in ones normal shroom trip. I am assuming the reason for this is the bright lights which are often in bathrooms, combined with the straining of bladder and bowell muscles, and blood rushing to the head.

While performing either #1 or #2 in the bathroom the already juice enhanced visuals doubled and the mental trip went off the charts. I thought I may faint at one point. It was an awesome ride, unfortunately it wasn't in the location of choice...

I do relish the mental aspect of my trips more than the visual, and extra anxiety doesn't bother me in a comfortable setting so I was dissappointed in the lack of mental tripping.

The other dissapointing thing was at one moment you were kinda' feeling them come on, then suddenly your hit with just about peak strength. Eating them without juice gets me off in a slow build up of effects.... little waves roll over me as it increases and I have always loved the feeling of it coming on. This feeling seems virtually non-exesitent with the juice method.

Anyway, thats some of my thoughts on the juice...hope it helps.

Psiledehysp (second mushroom to the left) 28/11/05 08:39 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=224669

Lol, "Don't believe everything you read at the shroomery."

Wiccan_SeekerModerator (ex-addict since dec '02) 28/11/05 10:58 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

That bluelight thread is interesting, because if you combine it with our thread here a pattern becomes visible.

1..If there is a sensational claim, there is a humongous force from the drug culture to tear it to shreds. Deny it is real, ridicule and disqualify the people who claim it is and deny all observations as unscientific. You saw it on blue, you saw it on the early pages here.

Are we that cynical? Are we, the psychedelic explorers, that resistant to change and sceptic?

2..Judgemental. Everybody is judging, but *very* few actually bother to get off their asses and confirm or deny the findings from personal experience.

What ever happened to the spirit of invention?

3..Under The Rug. The majority who tried it even at bluelight report it actually does work, (check their thread: its true ^_^) but their findings are ignored as the discussion is kept academic.

4..Peg It Down. People feel an irresistible need to find a simple explanation as they can't stand being in the dark. So the whole dsiscussion is steered into the direction of "more efficient extraction". Whiterasta gave an alternate explanation but was ignored in favor of the simpler model.

You see it here as well as on bluelight: i don't mean specific people but the psychedelic subculture as a whole reacts downright autistic to something which may rock their world beyond their comfort zone.

I mean: with a claim of 2-5x potency increase (or a super easy psilocybin extraction in another thread) you would expect people to jump all over it in one squirming pile of berserkly experimenting hippies

But no. Most trippers do not snap out of posting mode and take it into the real world of their own trips. They don't even try. Fucked up. What ever happened to an open mind?

Psiledehysp (second mushroom to the left) 28/11/05 11:53 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

I dont know what happend to opened minds, Wiccan, but when I read what you have just posted I know I`m in the right place .

Yes forget actually trying it, if science doesnt have the answer than who cares. Do you have to understand everything to experience it? requiem99 (Stranger) 29/11/05 02:00 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

There is a thread over at Somethingawful about this too, with tons of ridicule, rejection, and loud cries of "bullshit" from people who won't even try it themselves. Makes me sick. demius (seeker) 29/11/05 05:45 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

So I guess we're the crazy ones then?

I will continue to try same dosages, one without any fresh lemon, and then same dose with fresh squeezed lemon; so will my friends that trip with me. We'll make our own decisions. ladysalvia (Stranger) 29/11/05 07:23 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

Hey everyone! I've done shrooms 3 times so far and last night was by far the most intense and fun trip I've had.

The first time I did 3.5g. I just ate them plain and washed down with a coke. It took about an hour before I started feeling anything, and I only got minor visuals. It was still a good time though. The trip lasted about 6 hours and I still felt a slight body high the next morning. The second time I did 1.2g. I ground them up with a coffee grinder and ate them with a PB&J sandwich. yummy! Onset was a bit quicker this time at about 40 minutes. I got less visuals, but the body high was more intense than the first experience. I was back to baseline in 4 hours.

Third time! I ground up 2g and put them in a shot glass. I then peeled an orange and squeezed the juice into the glass and let it sit for 30 minutes. Then I hammered it down and chased it with a coke ! Tasted nasty, but it was over quick and not too bad.

# What liquid are you using? - Orange Juice . # How much liquid did you drink the powder with? (oz) - about 3oz . # Time to "first alert" (aka, "whoa, something's definitely going to happen") - 15 minutes . # Time to onset of visual disturbance - 45 minutes . # Time to peak (rough estimate) - 90 minutes . # Time to first sign of diminishing effects - approx 180 minutes. I ate another orange and it kicked back in for about 15-20 minutes. . # Time to baseline (indiscernable effects) - Tried to sleep after 4 hours, took 2 more hours to fall asleep, followed by crazy dreams and a lot of waking up.

I will use this method from now on as it was a lot more enjoyable. I'll try lemon juice next time though. wbread (Beast) 29/11/05 08:42 PM

Re: I may have discovered something...

I've done mushrooms quite a few times over the past 5 years, and quite frankly, the experiance seemed to loose it's magic. I'd get plenty high, but i wasn't blown away like i used to be. I chalked this up to becoming accoustomed to the experiance. I typicaly take about 4-5 grams (ground up as much as possible in water or on a bread with jam) when i eat shrooms, and usually my own batch, so the potency is roughly constant. After reading this post, i tried taking lemon juice extract ("real lemon" brand, the one in the plastic lemon) with my shrooms. I had 4 grams, and i couldnt get them to powder so i ground them up as much as possible and in the process of eating them, had about 3 or 4 shots of the lemon juice. I'm not sure about specifics, but the trip definatly comeon quicker then before, and i felt it was stronger - ie, i got the magic back, and was able to concentrate on and focus on ideas and visuals more then the previous few times i tripped. While this could be placebo, i doubt it because i was pretty skeptical, and sort of did it as a fluke, and wasnt really paying a huge amount of attention to any changes from my normal experiances (untill i was sober). Additionally, i would attribute these effects to the acidity, because i noticed on the bottle of lemon juice that it said "not a significant source of vit. C" among other things, which suprised me, because lemons are good for vit C. Also, i recall doing shrooms another time, and we ground them up and put them in V8 juice (also acidic), and while i didnt notice too much of a difference, my friends, also experianced, comented on how much faster the trip hit them, and seemed to enjoy themselves. So, i'm definatly going to do this again, but thats just my 2 cents. haysanatar (trippologist) 29/11/05 09:12 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... ight yall I have to trip reports Ight I don't know exactly how many times I've tripped but its over 20 and they are almost all over 5 grams cause thats how I roll.. ight so I tried .5 grams in 1/3 cup of lemon juice too see if it worked.. and it deffinately did.. I got about a 2.5 gram trip rollin out tons of pixels but not much movement kind athing goin and it was just.. you suddenly trippin.. than your suddenly not the next night I decided why not try 2 grams I should atleast get something.. and I did.. it tripped like 2 grams but shorter drew some kick ass stuff though so.. yeah it works forsure and I hope to have another trip report this weekend haysanatar (trippologist) 29/11/05 09:34 PM

Re: I may have discovered something... just gonna throw someethings out I noticed the last 2 nights I didn't have stomach trouble.. at all I usually puke didn't even feel like I needed to I deffinately got more.. pixels or pink flecks than usual less.. stuff moving waving stuff more creative less.. mentally retarded

Wiccan_SeekerModerator (ex-addict since dec '02) 30/11/05 03:50 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

*cuts off a bit of leaf and merrily carries it to the nest*

------5.2.2.1 Tea

The Pink One's Kick Ass Tea Recipe

Potential advantages of tea: the biggest advantage of using tea is that is can greatly reduce possible stomach upset. Tea also masks the taste (Some people find the taste of shrooms to be unpleasant).

Potential disadvantages of tea (or advantage depending on your perspective): Psychedelic effects may occur more rapidly (according to posts on The Shroomery).

Miquels Decoction

You can eliminate 80% of smell, taste and other byproducts in the mushroom flesh by making a crude 'decoction' with citric acid or lemon juice. Making a decoction instead of a boiled tea is a preferred way for 4 reasons.

1. Maintains maximum psilocybin which is slowly broken down by high heat. 2. Extracts mostly the psilocybin and not much of whatever other chemicals may be in the shrooms that cause nausea. 3. Reduces unpleasant flavor. 4. Hits the system faster. For CH releif could this possibly simulate the effects of a higher dose (because it hits the stomach in a readily available form all at once rather than being slowly digested from the mushroom tissue)

To make a decoction using mushrooms and C

Take your dose and grind it into a powder in a coffee grinder. This maximizes the available surface area of the shrooms and speeds the process.

Heat 3/4 cup water *almost* to boiling and let sit for 5 minutes. Dump in mushroom powder and add 1/2 tsp of powdered vitamin C or squeeze in 1/2 of a Lime or Lemon. Stir for a little while and let sit for 5 minutes Strain the mix thru a fine mesh or a cheese-cloth - strain it twice if necessary till you have a mostly chunk free liquid.

The C separates the psilocybin from the mushroom tissue rapidly (if it's ground up) - dont leave it sitting a long time or you will get more of the other stuff you don't want into the decoction.

Ideally you want to have as little carrier liquid as possible for the now extracted psilocybin. (like 1/3 of a cup or so) When added to a strong flavored juice the taste and smell of the mushrooms (for me this is a nausea trigger)is absent, ... perhaps a very slight metallic aftrtaste.

If you have as little carrier liquid as possible - you have already done the work that normally takes your stomach 20 minutes to 1 hour to accomplish. The juice is more rapidly absorbed ... getting CH stopping molecules in greater numbers to the brain, with no time or energy spent on digestion. Instead of the 1gm dose entering the system spread over the course of 1 or 2 hours of digestion (which halts as you start to trip) .... it all goes in directly, spread over 20 minutes. The net time at your 'peak' is shorter too

It seems that if there is truly a "shock" effect that resets the hypothalimus, the effect many are seeking by taking larger doses, you can get the most BANG per Gram by taking a strong decoction on a lightly full stomach .... like 2 hrs after eating a moderate meal.

Source: CLUSTERBUSTERS - Hallucinogenic Treatment Of Neuro-Vascular Headaches FAQ

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Looks like we reinvented the wheel, and are doing a damn good job reinventing it!

A small volume of Lemon Juice/Citric Acid/Ascorbic Acid causing a faster, fortified effect which gets a bigger bang per gram is precisely what we're doing in both our shotglass-of-lemonjuice experiment as my experiment with 1 fl oz of 5% ascorbic acid.

The faster effect of shorter duration, potentiation of the drug effects, masking the taste and reduction of nausea - it's all there! kingfish4200 (shroom diddy) 30/11/05 06:24 AM

Re: I may have discovered something...

GOD DAMN!! THANK YOU!! I get vasculer headaces all the damn time! Now I have a medical reason to eat mushrooms! ...lol...YES!!