COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
JOINT PUBLIC HEARING
OF THE
LABOR AND INDUSTRY COMMITTEE AND HEALTH COMMITTEE
STATE CAPITOL HARRISBURG, PA
MAIN CAPITOL BUILDING 140 MAJORITY CAUCUS ROOM
THURSDAY, OCTOBER 1, 2 02 0 9:30 A.M.
PRESENTATION ON THE IMPACT OF PA DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH'S PANDEMIC MITIGATION EFFORTS ON BUSINESSES AND EMPLOYMENT
BEFORE: HONORABLE JIM COX, MAJORITY CHAIRMAN, LABOR AND INDUSTRY COMMITTEE HONORABLE CRIS DUSH HONORABLE TORREN C. ECKER HONORABLE BARBARA GLEIM HONORABLE JIM GREGORY HONORABLE DAWN W. KEEFER HONORABLE KATE A. KLUNK HONORABLE RYAN E. MACKENZIE HONORABLE DAVID M. MALONEY, SR. HONORABLE LORI A. MIZGORSKI HONORABLE ERIC R. NELSON
Debra B. Miller dbmreporting@msn. com 2
BEFORE (continued): HONORABLE PATRICK J. HARKINS, DEMOCRATIC CHAIRMAN, LABOR AND INDUSTRY COMMITTEE HONORABLE MORGAN CEPHAS HONORABLE MARIA P. DONATUCCI HONORABLE LEANNE KRUEGER HONORABLE JEANNE McNEILL HONORABLE GERALD J. MULLERY HONORABLE ED NEILSON HONORABLE ADAM RAVENSTAHL HONORABLE PAM SNYDER
HONORABLE KATHY L. RAPP, MAJORITY CHAIRMAN, HEALTH COMMITTEE HONORABLE TIMOTHY R. BONNER HONORABLE JIM COX HONORABLE VALERIE S. GAYDOS HONORABLE JOHNATHAN D. HERSHEY HONORABLE DAWN W. KEEFER HONORABLE KATE A. KLUNK HONORABLE JERRY KNOWLES HONORABLE CLINT OWLETT HONORABLE BRAD ROAE HONORABLE DAVID H. ZIMMERMAN HONORABLE DAN FRANKEL, DEMOCRATIC CHAIRMAN, HEALTH COMMITTEE HONORABLE MARY JO DALEY HONORABLE PAMELA A. DeLISSIO HONORABLE ELIZABETH FIEDLER HONORABLE SARA INNAMORATO HONORABLE WENDY ULLMAN
COMMITTEE STAFF PRESENT: JOHN SCARPATO MAJORITY EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, LABOR AND INDUSTRY COMMITTEE JONAS RICCI MAJORITY RESEARCH ANALYST, LABOR AND INDUSTRY COMMITTEE JENNIFER DODGE MAJORITY LEGISLATIVE ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT II, LABOR AND INDUSTRY COMMITTEE McCLAIN FULTZ MAJORITY RESEARCH ANALYST, LABOR AND INDUSTRY COMMITTEE 3
COMMITTEE STAFF PRESENT (continued): HALEY SALERA DEMOCRATIC EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, LABOR AND INDUSTRY COMMITTEE
WHITNEY METZLER MAJORITY EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, HEALTH COMMITTEE LORI CLARK MAJORITY LEGISLATIVE ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT, HEALTH COMMITTEE
ERIKA FRICKE DEMOCRATIC EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, HEALTH COMMITTEE 4
I N D E X
TESTIFIERS
~ k ~ k ~ k
NAME PAGE
TRUDY IVORY CHAIR, PITTSBURGH PENGUINS RINK MANAGERS GROUP...... 12
JOHN LONGSTREET PRESIDENT/CEO, PA RESTAURANT & LODGING ASSOCIATION...... 15
REBECCA OYLER PA STATE LEGISLATIVE DIRECTOR, NATIONAL FEDERATION OF INDEPENDENT BUSINESS...... 23
DR. RACHEL LEVINE SECRETARY, PA DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH...... 29
SARAH BOATENG EXECUTIVE DEPUTY SECRETARY, PA DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH...... 3 8
DR. SHARON WATKINS STATE EPIDEMIOLOGIST, PA DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH...... 50
DR. WENDY BRAUND COVID-19 RESPONSE DIRECTOR, PA DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH...
SUBMITTED WRITTEN TESTIMONY
* * *
See submitted written testimony and handouts online under "Show:" at:
https://www.legis.State.pa.us/cfdocs/Legis/TR/Public/t r finder public action.cfm?tr doc typ=T&billBody=&billTyp=& billNbr=&hearing month=&hearing day=&hearing year=&NewCommi ttee=Labor+and+Industry&subcommittee=&subj ect=&bill=&new ti tle=&new salutation=&new first name=&new middle name=&new l ast name=&new suffix=&hearing loc= 5
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 * * *
3 MAJORITY LABOR AND INDUSTRY CHAIRMAN COX: At
4 this time, I would like to ask all who are able to stand
5 and join me in saying the Pledge of Allegiance.
6
7 (The Pledge of Allegiance was recited.)
8
9 MAJORITY LABOR AND INDUSTRY CHAIRMAN COX: All
10 right. I would like to welcome everyone to this joint
11 hearing of the House Labor and Industry Committee and the
12 House Health Committee.
13 I would like to announce, first off, that the
14 meeting is being recorded, so I would ask that all Members
15 and guests to please silence their cell phones and any
16 other electronic devices.
17 I asked Chairman Rapp to hold this hearing with
18 me today to take a look at the impact of the Department of
19 Health's pandemic mitigation efforts on businesses and
20 employment. We have heard a number of complaints and
21 stories from constituents who have been harmed by the
22 Department's actions and the mitigation efforts.
23 With 4.1 million unemployment claims, both UC and
24 PUA combined, the Pandemic Unemployment Assistance, since
25 the beginning of the pandemic here in Pennsylvania, there 6
1 must be some sort of a balance.
2 There's a human toll that comes with chronic
3 unemployment and economic devastation. Today, we're going
4 to hear from some of those stakeholders and from the
5 Department of Health. Hopefully, we can get to a place
6 where the pandemic mitigation efforts are carried out in a
7 manner that makes sense instead of putting the burdens
8 we' re going to hear about today on employers and employees
9 alike.
10 At this time, I would like to ask if Chairman
11 Rapp has comments, and then if the Democratic Chairmen
12 Harkins and Frankel would like to offer comments as well, I
13 will take a few moments for those.
14 MAJORITY HEALTH CHAIRMAN RAPP: Thank you,
15 Chairman Cox, and thank you for inviting the
16 Health Committee to this very important hearing for our
17 small businesses.
18 And we all know in our legislative offices the
19 impact of unemployment, as our legislative office has been
20 working hours. Most of our legislative offices never
21 closed. None of our staff stayed home. They were all in
22 our office every day. And one of the most important things
23 besides, but it's all COVID-related obviously, was the
24 issues regarding unemployment, and we're still taking those
25 phone calls. 7
1 But also, we know there's a huge impact from the
2 immediate shutdown because of the waiver list and working
3 with employers, trying to get employers to reopen,
4 especially employers who had government contracts. And
5 obviously it's very sad to see what is happening to a lot
6 of our restaurants and other small businesses.
7 We are very happy that our children, you know,
8 are back in school in many of our districts. And certainly
9 we all agree, I don't think there's a person here that
10 would not agree that this virus is real, that we need to
11 take precautions, and I think we have seen that the public
12 is very willing to do that.
13 And when I go into a small business, I'm always
14 amazed at the steps that the small businesses will take to
15 protect the public and also to protect their business. But
16 they don't want to take the risk of putting the public at
17 risk for being exposed to COVID. They have done amazing
18 work trying to ensure that public entities, especially
19 restaurants, are safe for the public.
20 So just like a lot of other issues, they overflow
21 from one committee to the other, so I'm very interested in
22 hearing what everyone has to say. And the Chairman, you
23 know, worked frequently on -- we even serve, Representative
24 Cox serves on the Health Committee. So I'm very pleased to
25 be here. 8
1 Thank you, Chairman Cox, again, and I will turn
2 the mic back over to you, sir.
3 MAJORITY LABOR AND INDUSTRY CHAIRMAN COX: Thank
4 you, Chairman Rapp.
5 At this time, I would like to recognize my
6 Democratic counterpart in the House Labor Committee,
7 Chairman Harkins.
8 MINORITY LABOR AND INDUSTRY CHAIRMAN HARKINS:
9 Thank you, Chairman Cox.
10 I want to thank everyone for being here today and
11 sharing your experiences with us, the ones dealing with the
12 COVID pandemic and its economic impacts on all of us.
13 To the business community, we hear you. We
14 recognize the challenges you are experiencing, and we
15 appreciate all of the efforts you have taken to adhere to
16 the safety guidelines, which we know keep evolving, and we
17 are as frustrated as you are.
18 I, too, have some concerns about the Wolf
19 Administration's COVID policies, but I would also like to
20 applaud Secretary Levine, Governor Wolf, and everyone else
21 working to keep our families safe. The Administration was
22 forced to make a lot of tough calls in complete absence of
23 Federal leadership. According to the CDC data,
24 Pennsylvania has the lowest per capita infection rate of
25 any large State. Unfortunately, that does not mean we are 9
1 able to return to business as usual.
2 I just recently saw this morning on a news
3 report, there probably will never be another normal,
4 whatever normal was. Look at what's happening right now in
5 Green Bay, Wisconsin, where a spike in COVID cases is
6 overwhelming hospitals and ICUs. That could easily happen
7 here if we are not careful. This crisis is not over, and
8 these issues are deserving of our attention and our time.
9 With all that said, we are here to discuss public
10 health and the economy; yet, no workers were invited to
11 testify today. This crisis hit low-income workers
12 especially hard, and I'm disappointed that they will not
13 have a voice at this hearing. Nonetheless, I am hopeful
14 that we can have a productive conversation on how we can
15 help Pennsylvania's economy rebound while keeping
16 Pennsylvania workers safe.
17 With that, I'll turn it back to my friend and
18 colleague, Jim Cox. Chairman.
19 MAJORITY LABOR AND INDUSTRY CHAIRMAN COX: Thank
20 you, Chairman Harkins.
21 At this time, I would like to recognize the
22 Minority Chairman of the Health Committee, Representative
23 Frankel.
24 MINORITY HEALTH CHAIRMAN FRANKEL: Thank you,
25 Chairman Cox, and I thank my Chair, Representative Rapp, 10
1 and Chairman Harkins as well.
2 I certainly am interested in hearing about the
3 experiences of our local businesses, and I have, as we all
4 have within our districts, heard from our businesses and
5 the hardships that they are enduring. This disease, this
6 epidemic, is something that has been evolving, and what we
7 have learned in the last 6 months, it's very different than
8 what our first reactions were to it.
9 And I want to, while I share the concerns of
10 businesses, I also want to commend the Department of Health
11 and the Governor for the efforts on mitigation, which the
12 results are hard to dispute. Our health-care system was
13 never overwhelmed. The level of infections compared to
14 States, neighboring States in the mortality rates, are very
15 low compared to the States that surround us.
16 So we have had success. The priority clearly has
17 been public health and public safety in dealing with this.
18 But at the same time, as we have learned from our
19 experience from the science and the medical evidence, we
20 have changed the response. The Department has been
21 responsive to some of the changing environments. There
22 have been mistakes made, clearly, but I think that is
23 something that we have seen in every State and certainly
24 from our national government.
25 The failure of the Administration in Washington 11
1 to address the needs of our communities to give us the
2 resources that we need to provide public safety has been
3 dismal. And I look forward to, you know, hearing from our
4 businesses about their experiences and how they think we
5 ought to maybe amend the mitigation efforts and the
6 responses of the Department of Health as well.
7 But ultimately, and I think it is indisputable
8 that Pennsylvania's response, which has prioritized public
9 safety and public health, has been a success story in a
10 very difficult environment.
11 So I am looking forward to hearing the testimony,
12 and thank you, Mr. Chairman.
13 MAJORITY LABOR AND INDUSTRY CHAIRMAN COX: Thank
14 you, Representative Frankel.
15 Today, we have asked a number of individuals to
16 join us. So for the hearing today, we have Trudy Ivory,
17 Chair of the Pittsburgh Penguins Rink Managers Group;
18 John Longstreet, President and CEO of the Pennsylvania
19 Restaurant & Lodging Association; Rebecca Oyler, who is
20 the PA State Legislative Director for the NFIB. We also
21 have the Secretary of Health, Dr. Rachel Levine. Joining
22 Dr. Levine, we have Dr. Wendy Braund, the COVID-19
23 Response Director; Dr. Sharon Watkins, the State
24 Epidemiologist; and Sarah Boateng, the Executive Deputy
25 Secretary. 12
1 We have asked each of the testifiers, and for the
2 Department, the Department counts as one testifier, if you
3 will. So we'll have a total of 20 minutes. Each
4 testifier/organization will have 5 minutes to offer their
5 comments. At the conclusion of the comments of all the
6 testifiers, we will have questions and you'll be able to
7 answer as a panel.
8 I would like to encourage each of you to reach
9 out in the middle of a question. If you're wanting to join
10 in and say, wait a minute, I have a different perspective
11 on that, whether it's the person sitting next to you or
12 whether it's somebody speaking virtually, I would encourage
13 you to get my attention somehow. I'll be watching the
14 screen as well, and so ideally, we'll be able to engage in
15 a panel discussion of sorts and allow for questions to get
16 very robust and comprehensive answers.
17 So at this point, we're going to start with
18 Ms. Ivory. When you're ready.
19 MS. IVORY: Thank you.
20 MAJORITY LABOR AND INDUSTRY CHAIRMAN COX: If you
21 could pull the microphone closer.
22 MS. IVORY: Thank you for allowing me to speak to
23 you today. I really appreciate the opportunity.
24 I am a 30-year employee of the City of Greensburg
25 as the Recreation Facilities Manager. I also serve as the 13
1 Chair of the Pittsburgh Penguins Ice Rink Managers Group
2 that is comprised of 31 ice facilities made up of
3 7,553 hockey players, ages 5 to 18, from southwestern PA,
4 northern West Virginia, and eastern Ohio. Those numbers
5 play for an amateur and an interscholastic league, which is
6 the PAHL, P-A-H-L, and PIHL. Both of those organizations
7 are active in our Managers Group and attend our quarterly
8 meetings. We have a solid working relationship with their
9 directors .
10 Our buildings contain complex equipment
11 consisting of air handling exchange units, desiccant
12 dehumidifiers, and 7 miles of under-ice piping, which keeps
13 our ice at a consistent 18 to 22 degrees. We consist of
14 seasonal and year-round facilities that are owned by
15 private companies, universities, and municipalities. Our
16 ice rinks range from 40,000 square feet to 100,000 square
17 feet, with occupancy limits of 500 to 800 bodies.
18 Eight-foot-high Plexiglas surrounds our 200 by
19 85 foot playing surface. The inside temperature of our
20 rinks vary from 45 to 55 degrees. Our member facilities
21 are diligently enforcing the CDC guidelines, including
22 wearing a mask, physical distancing, providing hand
23 sanitizer in several locations, checking patron
24 temperatures, and disinfecting the entire facility several
25 times a day in an effort to provide a safe environment for 14
1 our players.
2 We limit the number of players allowed in each
3 locker room to keep a distance, and all players must wear a
4 mask. We have posted signs from the front to the back of
5 the building stating "keep a 6 ft. distance," "wear a
6 mask," "wash your hands," "use hand sanitizer," "stay home
7 if you have a fever or feel ill," and our leagues also help
8 us to enforce the rules related to COVID-19.
9 The 25-indoor-person limit is impossible to
10 adhere to in a game situation, considering a team is made
11 up of 14 to 18 players and a minimum of 2 coaches. Our
12 players are covered head to toe in protective equipment,
13 and our coaches are required to wear a mask when coaching
14 from the bench. We have anywhere from 6 to 30 full-time
15 and part-time employees in our buildings that are doing
16 their best to keep everyone healthy.
17 Speaking just for my recreation department, we
18 have experienced a significant loss of revenue,
19 approximately $150,000 since March, due to cancelled
20 recreation programs such as our ice hockey, baseball,
21 football, summer camps, and our outdoor pool, all due to
22 the virus.
23 I'm here today to plead for a minimum of a 25- to
24 50-percent occupancy limit in order to move forward with a
25 playing season for our hockey families. It is unimaginable 15
1 to expect a parent to not attend a game for their 6- or
2 7-year-old who requires help with dressing and basic
3 equipment.
4 I am well aware that when the CDC put together
5 their COVID-19 guidelines, it was not possible to consider
6 every activity and/or sport and that ice hockey serves a
7 smaller percentage of youth. I hope I have been able to
8 shed some light on what our sport entails and what our
9 buildings are capable of and determined to, which is
10 keeping our players and families safe.
11 I realize the final decision on increasing
12 attendance numbers does not lie exclusively with you, but
13 please help us in being able to start to create a safe
14 season for our players by increasing our indoor attendance
15 numbers. Our facilities employ hundreds of full- and
16 part-time employees who depend on us as their sole source
17 of income.
18 Once again, thank you all for inviting us here
19 today, and I wish you all good health.
20 MAJORITY LABOR AND INDUSTRY CHAIRMAN COX: Thank
21 you, Ms. Ivory.
22 Next we'll hear from John Longstreet.
23 MR. LONGSTREET: Thank you to the Chairmen of
24 both the Labor and Industry Committee and the Health
25 Committee and all of the Members for holding this hearing 16
1 today and for inviting me to testify. I appreciate the
2 opportunity to be here.
3 The Pennsylvania Restaurant & Lodging Association
4 represents hotels, restaurants, and travel and tourism in
5 Pennsylvania, one of only six States where we have the
6 entirety of the industry covered with one industry, or with
7 one association.
8 About March 15th, our Board of Directors made the
9 decision to suspend the collection of dues from all of our
10 members, understanding the need that they were going to
11 have for cash flow in order to survive. We also reached
12 out to do everything we could to help employees that were
13 going to be displaced because of this. So consequently,
14 we now represent all 26,000 restaurants, 1500 hotels,
15 50 destination marketing organizations, and about
16 150 attractions around the State.
17 In addition, we very quickly, through some very
18 generous donations from corporate sponsors, raised
19 $250,000, a quarter of a million dollars, and have
20 distributed that to displaced hospitality workers through
21 our 501(c)(3). So we definitely care about the workers,
22 the 580,000 workers in our industry, that have been
23 affected by this.
24 On July 15th, Governor Wolf ordered that
25 restaurants reduce indoor capacity from 50 percent of 17
1 Fire Code rating to 25 percent. With proper social
2 distancing and face masking, the arbitrary number of
3 25 percent has no basis in science as we can ascertain. We
4 have also been able to get no evidence from the
5 Administration to support this since that time as well.
6 As the Governor likes to say, the virus will
7 determine our actions, and I agree with those that have
8 said that Pennsylvania has a good record on this, but it
9 has been shown that the virus respects social distancing
10 and face masking, standards that were already in place and
11 being followed by restaurants. The only significance of
12 the 25-percent number is that it will, and frankly, already
13 has, put restaurants out of business and employees on the
14 streets permanently.
15 While we understand the need and urgency in
16 taking steps to mitigate the spread of COVID-19, we are
17 disappointed and frustrated by the course of action taken
18 by Governor Wolf and Secretary Levine in focusing on the
19 restaurant industry, an industry first closed and one of
20 the hardest hit by the pandemic. Also, the restaurant
21 industry is the second largest private employer in the
22 country, with, as I have already stated, over half a
23 million employees just in Pennsylvania.
24 By his own words, Governor Wolf is targeting the
25 restaurant industry, although there is scant real evidence 18
1 that the entire restaurant industry is either the problem
2 or the solution. Even the highly quoted September 10th
3 CDC study, which implied a linkage between COVID-19 and the
4 restaurant industry, has been criticized as containing
5 numerous flaws, and further, the lack of direct correlation
6 should be evidence that when restaurants demonstrate
7 effective mitigation efforts, the risk is low when dining
8 outside or inside.
9 Specifically, the study tells us that people who
10 were diagnosed with COVID-19 had also dined out. There is
11 no clear evidence that the virus was contracted at a
12 restaurant versus any other community location. Also, the
13 study limited the number of participants and came from
14 10 States with greatly varying restrictions on restaurants
15 during the potential period of potential exposure. It
16 should be noted that not a single restaurant in
17 Pennsylvania was included in this study -- not a single
18 restaurant in Pennsylvania.
19 Even the CDC recognized the limitation of their
20 own study within its report, but, of course, that did not
21 make the headlines. It is irresponsible to pin the spread
22 of COVID-19 on a single industry. Restaurants have
23 historically operated with highly regulated safety
24 protocols based on the FDA's Food Code and have taken
25 additional steps to meet the safe operating guidelines 19
1 required by the CDC, the FDA, OSHA, Federal, State, and
2 local officials.
3 Of all retail operations, restaurant operations
4 already comply with numerous licensing and certification
5 requirements, including oversight by the Department of
6 Health and the Department of Agriculture, and a requirement
7 that every food service operation have managers who are
8 ServSafe certified. And yet, restaurants have now been
9 asked to undergo yet another form of certification just so
10 that they can bring their indoor dining back to 50 percent
11 of Fire Code, a level that will barely allow most
12 restaurants to survive.
13 The Governor has highlighted a few bad actors
14 when in fact most restaurants are doing the right thing,
15 and many have invested significantly in equipment to ensure
16 the safety of their guests and employees.
17 Reduction to 25 percent capacity on July 15th was
18 essentially the same as eliminating indoor dining entirely,
19 and there is no scenario that restaurants can survive at
20 that level of occupancy. The solution should be
21 enforcement and shutting down those bars and restaurants
22 not complying with the guidelines rather than punishing
23 those who have been doing it right all along.
24 It is disappointing that the Governor, despite
25 his commitment to work with the Pennsylvania Restaurant & 20
1 Lodging Association in crafting operating standards,
2 elected not to do so in the critical July 15th decision.
3 We were grateful that our work with the Governor's team led
4 to the addition of outdoor dining in the yellow phase and
5 safe, balanced reopening standards in the green phase.
6 Ironically, in one of the very first meetings
7 with the Wolf team, we were asked about capacities and
8 pointed out that 25 percent was unsustainable. We knew
9 that, because many States had tried to open at 25 percent
10 and found that as many as 70 percent of the restaurants did
11 not open because of that. How the 25-percent number
12 resurfaced 2 months later is still baffling.
13 On Monday, September 21st, the Governor's most
14 recent order took effect, which allowed restaurants to
15 return to 50 percent Fire Code capacity with some strings
16 attached. Self-certification is required, bar seating is
17 prohibited, a meal must be purchased to get a drink, a
18 glass of wine, or a beer, and an 11 p.m. curfew on
19 alcoholic beverages is imposed. The order continues to
20 enforce the nonsensical 25-person capacity limit on indoor
21 private events such as weddings.
22 Last Tuesday, the Senate passed with broad
23 bipartisan support PRLA-endorsed House Bill 2513, and we
24 thank you for that, sending it back to the House for a
25 concurrence vote. The Governor quickly announced that he 21
1 would veto 2513. In his Thursday press conference, he
2 accused the Legislature, and I quote, of playing "fast and
3 loose with the lives of Pennsylvanians," but neglecting to
4 point out that 2513 brings the industry back to the exact
5 same carefully developed, science-driven standards that his
6 team put in place prior to the July 15th order. Closing
7 thousands of restaurants permanently and putting hundreds
8 of thousands of Pennsylvanians out of work sounds a lot
9 more like fast and loose than trying to safely reopen
10 restaurants and save jobs.
11 Lastly, recently, the National Restaurant
12 Association in conjunction with PRLA surveyed restaurateurs
13 in Pennsylvania and across the country. In Pennsylvania,
14 63 percent of the restaurant operators reported that it is
15 unlikely that their restaurants will still be in business
16 6 months from now if current business conditions continue
17 -- 63 percent. The national response was 38 percent,
18 nearly a 30-percentage-point difference.
19 Another glaring disparity between the national
20 results and Pennsylvania comes to employee layoffs.
21 Nationally, 19 percent of operators reported they had laid
22 off more employees in July and August, whereas in
23 Pennsylvania, 42 percent of restaurants have laid off
24 employees, which we can only attribute to the Governor's
25 surprise July 15th order that dropped indoor dining to 22
1 25 percent.
2 In closing, with the bipartisan support and
3 passage of House Bill 2513, last week was a good week for
4 restaurants and event venues in Pennsylvania. There was
5 some light for them where there only seemed to be darkness.
6 There was hope where there only seemed to be dismay.
7 A key reason why this is the case is that over
8 200 Legislators heard directly from hospitality employees
9 and restaurant owners during legislative roundtables
10 sponsored by PRLA across the State. Legislators on both
11 sides of the aisle listened to them and recognized that
12 restaurants can keep guests and employees safe and survive
13 at the same time. These are not mutually exclusive
14 concepts.
15 So on behalf of the 26,800 restaurants and food
16 service operations and over half a million employees in
17 Pennsylvania, we urge Governor Wolf to swiftly return
18 restaurants and private event venues to safe standards that
19 his team meticulously researched and developed prior to
20 July 15th -- the same standards that his team meticulously
21 researched and developed. The Governor can do this simply
22 by signing the overwhelmingly bipartisan House Bill 2513
23 before any more irreparable damage is done to the real
24 people who work in our great industry.
25 Thank you. 23
1 MAJORITY LABOR AND INDUSTRY CHAIRMAN COX: Thank
2 you, Mr. Longstreet.
3 Next we'll hear from Rebecca Oyler. Ms. Oyler.
4 MS. OYLER: Good morning, Chairman and Members of
5 the Committees.
6 My name is Rebecca Oyler. I am the Legislative
7 Director for NFIB, the National Federation of Independent
8 Business, in Pennsylvania. NFIB represents over
9 13.000 small business members in Pennsylvania and about
10 300.000 across the country.
11 Small businesses always have and always will make
12 up an enormous and critically important part of
13 Pennsylvania's business community. More than 99 percent of
14 Pennsylvania businesses are small. Generally, they are
15 responsible for almost half of the private-sector
16 workforce, and they create two out of every three new jobs.
17 They also have been disproportionately impacted by
18 COVID-19, so we are thankful for the opportunity to speak
19 today.
20 From the early days of the pandemic, small
21 business owners have been committed to doing their very
22 best to ensure the health and safety of their customers,
23 their employees, and their communities during this
24 challenging time. When a shutdown was ordered to flatten
25 the curve, "life-sustaining" businesses worked hard to keep 24
1 providing essential goods and services, and many reoriented
2 their businesses to provide necessary equipment and
3 supplies. Still others planned ways to serve their
4 customers in innovative ways. Entrepreneurs are
5 problem-solvers, and most of them rose to the challenge.
6 However, as the days turned into weeks and
7 eventually months and mandates and guidelines changed
8 suddenly and often, many found it difficult to hold things
9 together. The uncertainty that has become the new "normal"
10 has forced many small businesses to close their doors for
11 good, and we know that more will follow unless something
12 changes. We need small businesses to succeed.
13 So what can be done to help them survive and
14 recover? Two of the most important elements of small
15 business success are predictability in expectations and
16 flexibility in implementation. Provide them with these two
17 things and entrepreneurs will find a way to solve almost
18 any problem. But unfortunately, these two things have been
19 sorely lacking during this crisis. Until we provide them
20 with some certainty about the future and the flexibility
21 they need to manage bumps along the way, our small
22 businesses will never achieve their potential, and as a
23 result, our economy will continue to suffer, our tax
24 revenue will never rebound, and unemployment will remain
25 high. 25
1 Though the current pandemic is certainly
2 unprecedented, and we appreciate that orders were well
3 intended, often sudden and sometimes inconsistent State
4 mandates have been the cause of many problems. Many
5 business owners were caught off guard by the urgency with
6 which many of the policies took effect, including the mask
7 mandate. Though employers were perfectly willing to
8 protect their employees by providing masks, they had very
9 little time to comply with that particular order. I talked
10 to several "life-sustaining" business owners who were
11 unable to find masks on such short notice, which
12 jeopardized their ability to stay open and provide the
13 needed goods and services they were producing.
14 Many business owners also had problems finding
15 other necessary supplies after the April 5th business safety
16 measures order, which took effect the very next day. The
17 order forced a near scramble for hand sanitizer, cleaning
18 wipes, paper towels, and soaps. The same thing happened
19 again when the April 15th worker safety measures order,
20 which created a rush to find shields, physical barriers,
21 and other necessary items to rearrange spaces.
22 Others quickly needed to procure e-commerce
23 services to comply with various orders. Finding these
24 items and services was made all the more difficult by
25 broken links in supply chains that were caused by other 26
1 businesses facing the very same issues. It was kind of a
2 cascading effect.
3 Another concern many small business owners
4 related to me was a lack of consistency and clarity on
5 certain policies, especially when they changed
6 unexpectedly. This has been exacerbated by a lack of
7 communication, which often causes various parties,
8 including employers, employees, and even agency staff,
9 having different information. One restaurant owner was
10 frustrated when new rules were issued, and not
11 understanding how they worked with the old rules, he asked
12 a Liquor Control representative, a Liquor Control Board
13 representative who happened to be in his business that day,
14 to explain it. In response, the LCB official told the
15 owner that he needs to "check the news every day."
16 In many cases, the uncertainty and lack of
17 specificity have exacerbated pre-existing workforce issues
18 unnecessarily, especially for "life-sustaining" businesses
19 that need "all hands on deck" to keep going. Many of these
20 businesses have difficulty finding qualified workers during
21 normal times.
22 When workers can't work due to quarantine orders
23 that may not seem to make sense, it can shut a business
24 down and cause irreparable harm. Some small business
25 operations were affected by quarantines of employees who 27
1 may have had second- or third-hand exposure to possible
2 COVID cases where there was no clear connection.
3 Small businesses are willing to do whatever it
4 takes to keep their employees and customers safe, but
5 confusing and hastily written rules are not helpful. What
6 they desperately need is clear and consistent guidelines
7 that are well documented, well communicated, and along with
8 sufficient time to put them into place.
9 Importantly, though, these guidelines must also
10 provide enough flexibility to allow small businesses to
11 implement them in the safest and most effective way for
12 their individual situations. For example, one restaurant
13 owner told me that his rural township does not have
14 occupancy limits. He knows how to space his tables so that
15 he can maintain proper CDC-recommended social distancing,
16 but he doesn't know how to comply with the capacity
17 limitations of the orders. Other small restaurants very
18 much want and need to increase their capacity to
19 50 percent, but they can't do it without seating customers
20 at the bar. If it can be done with social distancing and
21 physical barriers, why isn't this an option?
22 Many small businesses also question why current
23 guidelines and mandates are the same for every business
24 across Pennsylvania when case counts vary so much in
25 different areas of the State. As it stands, with all 28
1 counties in green, it's unclear why a small business in
2 Warren County with only 44 total cases is under the same
3 restrictions as a small business in Delaware County, which
4 has over 11,000 total cases and almost 18 times the number
5 of cases per capita.
6 With no current plans beyond the green phase,
7 which is unsustainable for too many small businesses, many
8 are hanging on by a thread because they have no idea what
9 the future holds, and they worry constantly that things
10 could change on a dime again. They need some assurance
11 that there is a path forward and a recognition that a
12 reasonable balance can be achieved between pandemic
13 policies and economic sustainability.
14 Recovery will require us to encourage
15 entrepreneurs to bet on their businesses again, to open
16 safely, reorient if necessary, bring their employees back,
17 and invest in their future. We will never be able to
18 achieve this with so much uncertainty surrounding the
19 current crisis and future events. Please prioritize
20 policies that will provide consistency, certainty, and
21 flexibility with adequate notice to the business community
22 to lay the foundation for a strong recovery ahead.
23 Thank you. I'll be happy to answer questions.
24 MAJORITY LABOR AND INDUSTRY CHAIRMAN COX: Thank
25 you. 29
1 At this time, we'll hear from Secretary Levine.
2 SECRETARY LEVINE: Good morning.
3 Chairs and Members of both the House Health and
4 House Labor and Industry Committees, thank you for the
5 opportunity to speak today.
6 As you know, the challenges presented by COVID-19
7 are immense. This global pandemic of the novel
8 coronavirus, COVID-19, has impacted every country, every
9 State, every industry, and every person, and Pennsylvania
10 is no different.
11 We here at the Pennsylvania Department of Health,
12 operating collaboratively in an incident command structure
13 since February, have worked tirelessly to combat this virus
14 and protect Pennsylvanians. Working collaboratively with
15 the Governor's Office and other State agencies, we utilized
16 swift public health measures to prevent the spread of the
17 virus. Partnering with PEMA, DCED, and DGS, we distributed
18 millions of personal protective equipment, including over
19 5 million N95 masks. As we work to lower the spread of
20 this virus and learn more about the tactics to combat the
21 virus, we have adapted our methods. We have evolved from
22 broad mitigation efforts in the spring to more targeted and
23 more surgical mitigation efforts.
24 Though one case is too many and one death is too
25 many, the fact remains that our work has helped to save 30
1 lives. The University of Pittsburgh released a study
2 showing that our strong mitigation efforts such as the
3 stay-at-home orders prevented a death count of nearly
4 double that has occurred.
5 Our work has been praised by Dr. Deborah Birx of
6 the White House Coronavirus Task Force, telling reporters
7 in Pennsylvania that we have done a wonderful job and we
8 get an A-minus for our efforts, and only because she never
9 gives out A's. All of this comes in spite of the
10 relentless efforts by the Pennsylvania Legislature to
11 consistently peel back our mitigation efforts by bill after
12 bill, seeking to force individual businesses to open,
13 counter-messaging by elected officials stating that mask
14 wearing isn't necessary or tantamount to child abuse,
15 circulating false reopening plans to confuse the public,
16 and stating that this is not an emergency or a crisis.
17 The Governor and the Administration know the
18 serious toll that this pandemic has taken on Pennsylvania
19 businesses, particularly those businesses where people are
20 accustomed to gathering together in a way that puts them at
21 increased risk during COVID-19.
22 We strongly support the passage of additional
23 assistance for these businesses at the Federal level and at
24 the State level so that business owners and employees can
25 stay afloat until this threat recedes. However, as 31
1 Secretary of Health, my mission is to promote health and
2 keep people safe. Many of the business reopening plans put
3 forth by the Pennsylvania Legislature, which began
4 advancing them in April, would have harmed Pennsylvania's
5 response to this crisis. In fact, some Legislators
6 suggested reopening by Easter. This year, that fell only
7 4 days from the day that we had our highest case counts.
8 Removing restrictions during this global pandemic
9 needs to be done in a very careful and very iterative
10 manner and with full consideration of the public health
11 effects associated with them. This was not the case with
12 these legislative efforts.
13 Let me be clear, this virus is still a threat.
14 We are still in a global pandemic, and we must continue to
15 use the tools authorized by prior Legislatures to combat
16 this virus.
17 Some suggest that because case counts and death
18 counts are low in their local area that this virus poses no
19 threat, and that characterization is wrong. One must only
20 look to Florida and Texas to see what happens when public
21 health measures are peeled back in a haphazard or careless
22 manner.
23 Flattening the curve is not a once-and-done
24 exercise. When we first highlighted the concerning
25 reopening process of these States, we were criticized 32
1 because these States had fewer cases and deaths at that
2 time. However, on June 16th, Florida saw 2 days in a row
3 of over 2,000 cases. Florida waited to act for 10 days
4 until implementing targeted mitigation on bars and
5 restaurants.
6 Because the virus was allowed to burn through the
7 State, it's case counts hit a high point of 15,300 on
8 July 13th. Because it was allowed to burn, the State is
9 still experiencing over 2,000 reported cases per day. On
10 the 29th, it was 2, 073, higher than any of our case counts.
11 Florida's 14,317 deaths have outpaced Pennsylvania's and
12 actually is the size of Greensburg, Pennsylvania -- all of
13 the people in Greensburg, Pennsylvania.
14 Further, in Texas, cases exploded in June,
15 hitting 1,703 cases. Texas has not experienced a day under
16 a thousand new cases since. Texas waited for 23 days
17 before instituting targeted mitigation in bars and
18 restaurants, and the virus was allowed to burn in that
19 State as well, hitting a high point of 10,791 cases in a
20 day.
21 Cases remain high in Texas still, and they
22 reported 3,812 new cases on the 29th. They have had
23 15,604 deaths, nearly double ours in Pennsylvania. It will
24 take two weeks of daily cases in Pennsylvania to equal one
25 day peak-of-cases increases in Florida and Texas. 33
1 This was not the approach taken in Pennsylvania.
2 Through the leadership of Governor Wolf, the Administration
3 acted quickly and decisively to slow the spread of the
4 virus. These decisions have been very painful, especially
5 to the businesses, but these actions literally saved lives.
6 We realized the real hardship that many of these
7 disruptions have caused Pennsylvanians, including workers
8 and business owners, but these are protections, not
9 punishments.
10 We all want to return to normal as soon as
11 possible. However, as we navigate this, quote, unquote,
12 "new normal," the best way to keep businesses operating is
13 by controlling the virus. You cannot reopen the economy
14 unless the virus is under control.
15 Pennsylvanians, including business owners, who
16 follow our public health measures help install confidence
17 in all consumers that they can go to stores or other
18 businesses safely as community spread eventually lessens.
19 The more Pennsylvanians wear masks, the more they social
20 distance, the more they follow other public health measures
21 that we have put in place to fight the virus, the better
22 positioned Pennsylvania will be to restore the damage that
23 this virus has caused.
24 Until then, we are committed to continuing to
25 combat this virus every single day, as we have done over 34
1 the last 6, 7 months, and we will continue to work towards
2 our vision of a healthy Pennsylvania for all.
3 Thank you for your attention, and I am pleased to
4 answer questions.
5 MAJORITY LABOR AND INDUSTRY CHAIRMAN COX: Thank
6 you.
7 At this time, we'll move to questions from the
8 Members, and I would encourage any Members to reach out to
9 your Executive Director or your respective Chairmen. We're
10 compiling a list of those that we have notice from as far
11 as wanting to ask questions, and so we'll add you to the
12 list as we receive them.
13 So we'll start with Representative Eric Nelson.
14 REPRESENTATIVE NELSON: Thank you, Mr. Chair,
15 Madam Secretary.
16 My question is centered in the area of contact
17 tracing, and one of the employees who submitted testimony
18 for today was Chef Arnold Ivey, who is the Executive Chef
19 at a restaurant in our district, the IronRock Tap House.
20 Their business was, unfortunately, closed when -- the
21 business itself wasn't closed, but contact tracers had
22 emailed and phone called to a number of their employees and
23 required they were to quarantine for 14 days. So the
24 business itself lost its employees and the ability to
25 operate. 35
1 A lot of confusion and frustration about some of
2 the letters that came from the contact tracers,
3 specifically as we have had meetings with individuals with
4 the contact tracers about immediately adhering -- this is a
5 letter from contract tracers to employees:
6 "You must immediately adhere to this quarantine
7 directive and all disease control measures included in it.
8 If you do not cooperate with this directive, the Secretary
9 of Health may petition a court to have you confined to an
10 appropriate place chosen by the Department...."
11 I skip a line.
12 "This may be a hospital, or some other
13 appropriate place, whichever the Department determines is
14 best suited for your case. You will be kept there until
15 the Department determines it can release you from
16 quarantine. Law enforcement may be called upon, to the
17 extent necessary, to ensure your compliance...."
18 And I refer to the second packet where an
19 employee, an alternate employee from that business,
20 received a call from a contact tracer, and I read:
21 "Approximately 2 days later, I received what I
22 perceived to be a very threatening call, which stated
23 things such as if I do not comply with self-quarantine, the
24 police may show up at my house and I may be
25 institutionalized and not released until they decided." 36
1 My question, Madam Secretary, this is extremely
2 disturbing where I think all of us want to maintain a
3 balance between healthy operations and public safety and
4 civil rights.
5 Workers who receive phone calls and emails that
6 are threatening to them do not seem to have the ability to
7 dispute a claim or to raise questions about a claim.
8 Specifically, as contact tracers are making these
9 allegations to citizens, is there actual police authority
10 and is there an appeal process that an employee who
11 disputes the claim of a contact tracer is able to follow,
12 potentially third-party oversight? There seems to be a
13 very one-sided and oftentimes impending threat by the
14 contact tracers.
15 SECRETARY LEVINE: Well, thank you for that
16 question.
17 There are three ways to deal with a pandemic.
18 The first is containment, the second is mitigation, as we
19 have been discussing, and the third is a vaccine, and we'll
20 all be hoping and praying for a vaccine either by the end
21 of 2020 or in 2021, although that won't be a quick fix
22 either.
23 Containment means testing, and we have been
24 working to increase our testing significantly over the
25 course of the pandemic. Those that test positive are 37
1 isolated. They have to isolate according to CDC guidelines
2 until they meet the criteria to be released. And then we
3 do case investigations of those individuals. We find out
4 who their contacts are, in addition to other information.
5 Those contacts are contacted by the Pennsylvania Department
6 of Health by phone or by email or by mail, and then they
7 need to quarantine for 14 days according to the CDC
8 criteria. That is not new to this pandemic. This is
9 standard public health practice, which has been present for
10 decades.
11 The Disease Control and Prevention Act does give
12 the Secretary actually the authority to isolate and
13 quarantine individuals that refuse to do that. That has
14 been done in previous pandemics and in infectious diseases
15 as well. But we have not taken that action--
16 REPRESENTATIVE NELSON: Madam Secretary, my —
17 Madam Secretary, my question is---
18 SECRETARY LEVINE: Let me finish, sir. I'm not
19 going to stop talking, so let me finish until I answer your
20 question.
21 REPRESENTATIVE NELSON: -- related to one of
22 those three ways. One of those three ways, one of those
23 three ways is not the use of force.
24 SECRETARY LEVINE: So we continue to do
25 that--- 38
1 MAJORITY LABOR AND INDUSTRY CHAIRMAN COX: Excuse
2 me.
3 SECRETARY LEVINE: -- and that is according to
4 the law, the Disease Control and Prevention Act. But we
5 have not taken anyone to court to be able to do that,
6 because individuals are quarantining and they are
7 isolating. But the measures of our contact tracers are
8 appropriate to contact to public health.
9 REPRESENTATIVE NELSON: Madam Secretary, one of
10 those three ways that you mentioned is not the use of
11 police force or the threatening of police force on citizens
12 who are not positive. These are citizens who do not
13 experience and have not experienced symptoms. They are
14 receiving phone calls from random people and are being
15 threatened to be removed from their home by police force.
16 Does the Department of Health have the authority
17 or are you claiming, Madam Secretary, respectfully, that
18 the Department of Health will use police force to remove
19 healthy people from their homes against their will?
20 SECRETARY LEVINE: Go ahead.
21 EXECUTIVE DEPUTY SECRETARY BOATENG: I think it's
22 important to be clear that quarantine is exactly that. It
23 is the quarantine of individuals who have been exposed to a
24 disease. It's a standard public health practice, and the
25 Department absolutely has that authority. We had that 39
1 authority given to us by the General Assembly through the
2 Disease Control and Prevention Act to apply in
3 circumstances like COVID-19 and has been applied to many
4 other disease outbreaks for many, many years.
5 SECRETARY LEVINE: So, and I would question you
6 when you say that this is random. We get names from people
7 in terms that they have been exposed from the people who
8 are positive. Through our case investigations, we
9 determine, we determine from those individuals who their
10 contacts are, and then we contact those individuals to
11 quarantine.
12 I mean, as we have discussed, there's only three
13 ways to deal with the pandemic, and we don't have a
14 vaccine. So if you're questioning our ability to contain
15 and you have previously questioned our ability to mitigate,
16 then there is no way to address the spread of the disease.
17 And we have seen in other States, as I have been
18 articulating, what happens when you let this virus burn---
19 REPRESENTATIVE NELSON: Madam Secretary,
20 my---
21 SECRETARY LEVINE: ---which will indicate to
22 many, many more hospitalizations and deaths.
23 REPRESENTATIVE NELSON: My question was
24 specifically, is there a dispute process where a citizen
25 has the right to an appeal? This is a nontransparent 40
1 process that contact tracers are emailing and calling
2 workers in the State of Pennsylvania and threatening police
3 force against them. The citizen does not have an
4 opportunity, as I understand, at this time, and I would
5 certainly encourage that the Department develop such a
6 procedure if they don't have one.
7 EXECUTIVE DEPUTY SECRETARY BOATENG: Sir, sir,
8 that is not accurate.
9 So if we were to force through a court process
10 the quarantine of an individual, that would process through
11 the courts. So there would be that branch of government
12 available there to provide that level of outside oversight.
13 SECRETARY LEVINE: So that's entirely correct.
14 We don't just send the police in. To be able to force
15 someone to isolate or to quarantine if they were refusing
16 to, we have to go to court to be able to accomplish that,
17 and that court would be the process that you are
18 discussing.
19 MAJORITY LABOR AND INDUSTRY CHAIRMAN COX: Thank
20 you.
21 And at this time, we have a question from
22 Representative DeLissio.
23 REPRESENTATIVE DeLISSIO: Thank you,
24 Mr. Chairman.
25 Good morning, Dr. Levine. 41
1 I appreciate and support these efforts to contain
2 and to mitigate, cheering on that vaccine coming out as
3 well. In the interim, I, too, as many of my colleagues
4 have, have been working closely with our constituents,
5 particularly small businesses, over the last several months
6 to help them understand what some of those mitigation
7 efforts are, how they can best respond to them.
8 Is there an established process within the
9 Department where now that we are months into this, and I
10 know it is far from over -- and I can appreciate
11 Ms. Oyler's predictability. As a former small business
12 person and having run several companies, I get that. But I
13 would imagine that the challenge is, the virus is not
14 predictable; therefore, I'm not sure how policy can be
15 predictable, because I have often used this example, we're
16 building the plane as we're flying it.
17 So, you know, all of us are sympathetic and
18 empathetic with that frustration. But every now and then,
19 I come across a constituent who has a particular problem,
20 and I'm looking to see if there's a process that is
21 established, and my apologies if I have overlooked it, or a
22 process that can be established.
23 For instance, my one constituent owns a number of
24 spa franchises. She has informed me that aestheticians are
25 not able to return to work. They are the category of 42
1 "professional worker" who does facials and that the face
2 masks basically prohibit that.
3 It was great to talk to her, because this was a
4 businesswoman who was able to give me statistics.
5 Thirty-three percent of her business is that. The majority
6 of these aestheticians are women, and in many cases, head
7 of household women. So employment and gainful employment
8 is very important to them. And last but not least, other
9 States seem to have figured this out.
10 So is there a process within the Department
11 whereby these types of matters can be brought to the
12 Department's attention and it can be further reviewed and
13 looked at?
14 SECRETARY LEVINE: So thank you for that
15 question.
16 So first, I might ask Sarah Boateng to speak
17 after me. Actually, I know that the aestheticians have
18 talked to the Department of State and the Board in terms of
19 specific rules. You are correct that facials are very
20 difficult to perform because the patient can't wear a mask
21 and have a facial. Some other States have forgone that,
22 but other States have maintained that ban on facials.
23 But in terms of contacting the Department,
24 Sarah Boateng?
25 EXECUTIVE DEPUTY SECRETARY BOATENG: Sure. 43
1 So the Department has a general number,
2 8 7 7-PA-HEALTH, that citizens can reach out to at any time
3 to reach public health professionals. Our community health
4 nurses are dedicated to that line. Of course, for Members
5 of the General Assembly, David Toth and his team are
6 constantly available to connect to Secretary Levine and
7 myself and our team, and we would be very open. And as the
8 Secretary has said, we have had also opportunities to talk
9 to many individuals in industries, including individuals
10 who work in the facial industry.
11 SECRETARY LEVINE: And I have actually spoken
12 with help through Legislators, with actually many Members,
13 many barbers and hairstylists in the past and
14 aestheticians, et cetera, and would be pleased to do so
15 again. They have organized some large calls. So the
16 individual can contact us, and then you as their
17 Representative, feel free to contact David Toth, and we'd
18 be glad to respond.
19 REPRESENTATIVE DeLISSIO: That would be very much
20 appreciated. At the moment, we're kind of caught up in a
21 Department of State/Department of Health pillar-and-post
22 situation. So I'm fairly persistent and somewhat intrepid,
23 so I will do that, and I appreciate your listening today.
24 Thank you, Secretary
25 SECRETARY LEVINE: Thank you. 44
1 MAJORITY LABOR AND INDUSTRY CHAIRMAN COX: Thank
2 you.
3 Next we have a question from Representative
4 Ecker.
5 REPRESENTATIVE ECKER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman,
6 and thank you to our testifiers. And Dr. Levine, thank you
7 for being here.
8 My question pertains, since we're talking about
9 the three ways of dealing with a pandemic, I'm going to
10 speak to the mitigation aspect, because I think that's
11 where we have, as a State, that's kind of where we're at
12 right now.
13 In that regard, in mid-July -- and we have heard
14 testimony on this -- we developed new guidance as it
15 pertains to restaurants, and in my case, which I'm going to
16 ask about, is venues and event space. So in that regard,
17 and because I wanted to know what data, to focus on the
18 data and the science and see, you know, how these decisions
19 are made, I asked, I submitted a Right-to-Know request in
20 August and very graciously was provided information from
21 the Department as it pertains to how those decisions were
22 made. And specifically, the bulk of that information
23 seemed to be information that was given from the White
24 House, the White House Office of Intergovernmental Affairs,
25 and in reviewing that information and in the response 45
1 through my Right-to-Know request, which questioned the data
2 behind the capacity order limitation, limiting indoor
3 events to 25 and outdoor events to 250, the Federal
4 guidance, which you claim, the Department claimed to have
5 used and from the CDC and from the White House, at the
6 time, Pennsylvania was averaging about 40 new cases per
7 100. This was compared to the national average of 119 per
8 100. And additionally, 42 percent of those cases, roughly,
9 in Pennsylvania were from three counties -- Allegheny,
10 Philadelphia, and Lancaster.
11 So when we first started this pandemic, we really
12 had targeted mitigation efforts, and it was a county based
13 or regional approach, but then as we got to the summer, we
14 kind of went to a statewide approach. And in this report,
15 the recommendations are limited to indoor dining and use of
16 community mitigation programs in counties with high
17 caseloads.
18 So my question is pretty simple here: Why were
19 the capacity limits on the indoor and outdoor facilities
20 for the entire State as opposed to a targeted mitigated
21 area such as Allegheny County or Philadelphia County or
22 places where it was higher as opposed to places like Adams
23 County or Cumberland County or even other places that I
24 don't represent that are a lot less populated and really
25 have not had the outbreaks from the statewide perspective? 46
1 SECRETARY LEVINE: Thank you for the opportunity
2 to answer that question.
3 So what we saw, I mean, through our efforts in
4 the spring, we were able to bend the curve and be able to
5 decrease the spread of COVID-19 significantly. Through
6 those very challenging and difficult mitigation efforts, we
7 were successful in bringing our case counts down in June,
8 down to 300 or 400 per day.
9 What we were seeing in the summer were increasing
10 case counts because of spread throughout the country that
11 we have been discussing, spread in the South in Florida and
12 then Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Texas,
13 Arizona, et cetera. That spread was going North. We saw
14 South Dakota, North Dakota, Virginia, and Maryland,
15 et cetera. It was coming from the West as well. And so we
16 were looking at the possibility of exponential growth
17 again, and so to prevent that, we took a specific targeted
18 mitigation against restaurants that decreased restaurants
19 to 25 percent, closed bars and nightclubs, and instituted
20 the gathering limitations that we discussed.
21 As you pointed out, this was specifically from
22 the recommendations from the White House Task Force in
23 terms of 25 percent for restaurants and closing bars and
24 nightclubs and those type, and that is where the evidence
25 was throughout the country that the spread was occurring. 47
1 At that time, the age group that that was
2 increasing greatly were young people. Now being 63, young
3 is a variable term. It wasn't just 20s, but it was, you
4 know, 30s, et cetera. That was successful. We bent the
5 curve again, so that by the end of August, the beginning of
6 September, we were down to again about 400 or 500 new cases
7 per day.
8 We did this statewide, because what we saw was
9 that in every region of Pennsylvania, whether it was the
10 north-central, northwest, northeast, southeast, southwest,
11 and south-central, that there were counties that were
12 increasing, that it wasn't just in, so I know some of the
13 majority were in our most populous counties, but we were
14 seeing increases really in all regions of Pennsylvania.
15 And so the decision was made, to prevent that exponential
16 growth that we saw in the spring, to do the mitigation
17 orders statewide.
18 Anything that anyone would like to add?
19 EXECUTIVE DEPUTY SECRETARY BOATENG: I think the
20 only thing I would like to add is when we're talking about
21 the data and the availability, I do think it's important to
22 contextualize.
23 You know, the 150,000 cases here in Pennsylvania
24 and the 8,000 deaths, each of those datapoints is a person,
25 a person who, you know, has a right to their information 48
1 being private, to being kept confidential, to being only
2 used for public health purposes. It is our duty at the
3 Department to respect that privacy.
4 And so, you know, the Department has pushed out
5 historic levels of data related to COVID-19. We provide
6 daily updates to the State on the impact of the virus. But
7 ultimately, all of that data is someone. It represents one
8 individual person, and it is our duty to respect their
9 right to privacy.
10 SECRETARY LEVINE: And so what we saw was the
11 success, not only in Pennsylvania but actually throughout
12 the nation, eventually as other States caught up to what we
13 were doing, to be able to decrease that spread.
14 Now, we're seeing increases in the country now,
15 mostly in the Midwest. And so, you know, really, they need
16 to catch up to us in terms of the efforts that we have been
17 able to do to stop the spread in Pennsylvania.
18 REPRESENTATIVE ECKER: Well, you know, thank you
19 for that answer. And really, you know, I have looked at
20 the data that is put on. I appreciate the data that has
21 been put out by the Department, and I got to admit, like, I
22 can't -- you know, looking at the data from my perspective,
23 you can justify it one way or the other here.
24 And I think we are focusing here in Pennsylvania
25 on a positivity, an infection rate, while, you know, 49
1 keeping -- from a layman's, I'm no statistician, I'm no
2 expert in data, but in looking over the last, I don't know,
3 4 weeks, even probably 2 or 3 months, our hospitalization
4 rate has been on the decline dramatically, and people are
5 out and about.
6 I mean, people are out and about more than they
7 were in March and April and people are interacting. And I
8 recognize your role. I recognize your role as public
9 safety. I get that. You should be advocating for that.
10 But to categorize some of the efforts that we have made as
11 reckless -- I'm not going to put words.
12 But from where we're coming from as Legislators
13 is, we're hearing voices from all types of people, you
14 know, including public health, but also from an aspect of
15 folks trying to get back to work or trying to get to a
16 normal situation. So whenever we focus on a positivity or
17 an infection rate, it seems to me that hospitalization
18 rates are declining. Mortality rates are declining.
19 My last question is, at what point here can these
20 mitigation efforts be relaxed to some degree that kind of
21 gel or coincide with the true data that is really showing
22 that Pennsylvania can reopen, for example, to 50 percent
23 capacity or 75 percent capacity? I mean, it seems to me
24 that the numbers have improved from where we were in March
25 and April, despite the fact that people are out and moving 50
1 around. So at what point is the Department willing to
2 recommend that we can increase these capacity limits for,
3 we'll keep it to events and venue space?
4 SECRETARY LEVINE: So the fact is actually that
5 we have increased restaurants to 50 percent. But we are
6 now entering the fall, so we are entering a time where,
7 again, case counts are increasing again in other parts of
8 the country.
9 And so we have to stay vigilant. It is somewhat
10 unpredictable, because the virus is not predictable. But
11 we're going to have to stay very vigilant over the next,
12 over the next number of weeks and months to watch for
13 increasing case counts.
14 But I know you had mentioned in terms of our
15 data, and so I would like our State Epidemiologist, who
16 actually was the President of the CSTE, the national
17 epidemiology association, until, you know, until her term
18 ended, to comment upon the data.
19 DR. WATKINS: Sure. Thank you for those
20 questions.
21 We look at the data every day. I mean, we are
22 looking at case counts. We are looking at outbreaks. We
23 are looking at where cases are occurring by age group. We
24 are looking at percent of positivity, our testing numbers,
25 our testing rates, and what we have learned is that 51
1 increases in a subgroup or in a certain county can
2 rapidly become increases in a county three doors over in
3 that same subgroup or that same risk group, and that has
4 really been one of the lessons learned from this emerging
5 pandemic.
6 So we need to be prepared, and we can't be
7 comfortable that just because we have done something in one
8 county we're done and that it won't impact another county,
9 and we have learned that it does.
10 For example, we are doing better, but we are
11 seeing, you know, high increases in counties where college
12 students are. We're seeing increases related to other
13 kinds of activities that go on with school and going back
14 to fall. And so we just need to be vigilant, because we
15 don't have, as Dr. Levine has mentioned, we don't have a
16 lot of tools in the toolbox to really address this
17 pandemic. We don't have a vaccine yet.
18 Remember, at the very beginning of the pandemic,
19 we did not have effective or known treatments or therapies
20 for these individuals. Through watching our neighboring
21 States have their hospitals overrun, their EMS overrun,
22 individuals were dying in their homes and not able to get
23 treatment or to hospitals, and we really, really did a
24 great job of avoiding those kinds of situations, but we
25 don't want to be in that situation again. 52
1 And as we head toward fall where outdoor dining
2 is not as able to be accommodated, I mean, we're really
3 looking at this every day in what we can do to not just
4 suppress the virus but move forward thoughtfully.
5 SECRETARY LEVINE: So in terms of the risk,
6 Wisconsin is---
7 REPRESENTATIVE ECKER: Dr. Levine, so--
8 SECRETARY LEVINE: I just have another comment to
9 your question.
10 REPRESENTATIVE ECKER: Okay.
11 SECRETARY LEVINE: Wisconsin is being overrun in
12 terms of their hospitals and their health systems right
13 now, and we have specific recommendations from Dr. Birx,
14 both in writing and in verbal communications, as well as
15 her press conferences, and Dr. Redfield and Dr. Giroir not
16 to wait until the hospitals are overrun. If you wait until
17 the hospitals are overrun and you are letting it burn, then
18 you are weeks behind the curve. Their specific advice to
19 us this summer is to continue containment and work on
20 mitigation before the hospitals are overrun or you have
21 missed the boat. That was the Federal recommendations in
22 writing and verbally specifically to the State Health
23 Departments.
24 REPRESENTATIVE ECKER: Thanks, Dr. Levine. I'm
25 going to allow some other colleagues to speak. Thank you. 53
1 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
2 SECRETARY LEVINE: Thank you.
3 MAJORITY LABOR AND INDUSTRY CHAIRMAN COX: Next
4 we have a question from Chairman Frankel.
5 MINORITY HEALTH CHAIRMAN FRANKEL: Thank you.
6 Actually, Dr. Levine, you have addressed some of
7 this. I mean, one of the things that is clear from what we
8 are hearing from Dr. Birx and to Dr. Redfield and Dr. Fauci
9 is really kind of a dire forecast for the fall and this
10 coming winter. And I think one of the things that I
11 believe, contrary to what some of the legislative efforts
12 here have been, is that we need to be nimble and responsive
13 to changing circumstances, and it's almost impossible for
14 the Legislature to be that vehicle to do that. So I
15 appreciate, you know, your comments with respect to being
16 able to have that kind of flexibility as we move forward.
17 At the same time, you know, I am very sympathetic
18 to our business community and the challenges that they are
19 facing. And I'm also wondering, you know, there are, I
20 have been told, you know, for instance, and I don't want to
21 dwell on the issue of aestheticists, but some of the States
22 that, for instance, are doing a very good job in doing the
23 mitigation and containment, you know, for instance, in that
24 area, have allowed aestheticists to operate. And we have
25 this kind of cooperation agreement regionally, as I 54
1 understand it, with several other States in the Northeast.
2 Do we have an understanding of, you know, kind of
3 the best practices, particularly with respect to, you know,
4 which businesses we can provide more flexibility to and be
5 less restrictive?
6 SECRETARY LEVINE: So thank you, Representative
7 Frankel.
8 I mean, we are always pleased to revisit issues.
9 So we are pleased to look at aestheticians and their
10 practice and what other States are doing right now and to
11 revisit that situation. So Dave will reach out to you and
12 to other Representatives that have brought up that issue.
13 We would be glad to have another phone call and meeting,
14 you know, with the aestheticians, and, you know, we are
15 pleased to revisit that.
16 We want to be, I mean, it was talked about being
17 flexible. I think, actually, that we have been very
18 flexible and that we have evolved and changed according to
19 what the pandemic is showing us at this time. But we also
20 have to be, as you put it out, extremely vigilant as we
21 enter the fall.
22 It has been pointed out, the weather is going to
23 change. We're going to get colder. Cold weather can
24 enhance the spread of respiratory viruses such as
25 coronavirus. In addition, people won't be able to dine out 55
1 and do as many of those activities outside. Coming indoors
2 will increase the risk.
3 And then we're also going to have flu. We have
4 seasonal influenza, and the juxtaposition of both COVID-19
5 and influenza at the same time is going to be a significant
6 public health challenge, so our vigilance will be required.
7 But thank you for your comments, and we're
8 pleased to reach out and speak to the aestheticians.
9 MINORITY HEALTH CHAIRMAN FRANKEL: Thank you.
10 And, Mr. Chairman, I have one other quick thing,
11 unless there are others.
12 I wonder, with respect to contact tracing, we
13 have an example in Allegheny County of the effectiveness of
14 contact tracing, I think the first real instance. Can you
15 talk about how that worked and what the response was?
16 SECRETARY LEVINE: So, you know, Representative
17 Frankel, Allegheny County, of course, with their own health
18 department does their own contact tracing. Can you
19 highlight which specific instance you are speaking about
20 for our comment?
21 MINORITY HEALTH CHAIRMAN FRANKEL: Well, I think
22 that there was a response, you know, that we had bars, you
23 know, that there was a contact tracing that traced that to
24 the south side of the city, so.
25 SECRETARY LEVINE: Yes. That's exactly correct. 56
1 EXECUTIVE DEPUTY SECRETARY BOATENG: Secretary?
2 SECRETARY LEVINE: Sarah.
3 EXECUTIVE DEPUTY SECRETARY BOATENG:
4 Representative Frankel, this might be an opportunity to
5 highlight the app that the Department has recently put
6 forward that complements the traditional public health
7 contact tracing. So this is COVID Alert PA.
8 Pennsylvanians can voluntarily download it onto their
9 phone, running off of Bluetooth technology -- not GPS
10 location technology, Bluetooth technology. It's another
11 tool in the toolbox to allow Pennsylvanians to be alerted
12 electronically if they have been in close contact with an
13 individual who is COVID-19 positive.
14 So Pennsylvania rolled that out last week. I
15 understand New York and New Jersey are following suit with
16 a rollout today. And we really are leading the nation in
17 bringing that type of technology here to work alongside the
18 traditional public health contact tracing efforts.
19 SECRETARY LEVINE: So I know that Dr. Bogen in
20 Allegheny County has been able to do some really granular
21 contact tracing, which did highlight in the summer, as you
22 said, specific bars, restaurants, nightclubs, et cetera,
23 which were involved in significant spreading. And so, yes,
24 contact tracing, it's bread-and-butter public health.
25 And to highlight the app, I mean, I think the app 57
1 is a really big advance, and I know that we were very
2 pleased to highlight the app to you all, to those who
3 wanted to participate in terms of learning how the app
4 works and the advantages of using the app in terms of that
5 public health measure.
6 MINORITY HEALTH CHAIRMAN FRANKEL: Thank you very
7 much.
8 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
9 MAJORITY LABOR AND INDUSTRY CHAIRMAN COX: Thank
10 you.
11 Mr. Longstreet, you had a comment based on
12 something you heard from the Secretary?
13 MR. LONGSTREET: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
14 And thank you, Representative Frankel, for
15 bringing up Allegheny County. We worked closely with
16 County Executive Rich Fitzgerald and Dr. Bogen on the
17 situation that you brought up there, and they tracked back
18 to some highly publicized bars that were not operating
19 within the guidelines, the careful guidelines, that were
20 put together by Governor Wolf and Secretary Levine. Had
21 they been there, that never would have happened, because
22 the guidelines required, and one of the differences between
23 Pennsylvania, Texas, and Florida that we have talked about
24 in the carefully crafted guidelines, there was what we
25 called the "no seat, no service" rule in the green phase 58
1 for restaurants, which means you could not be served either
2 food or beverages unless you had a seat. You could not be
3 in a restaurant if you had to -- if there was not a seat
4 available, you had to wait outside, socially distanced, to
5 get a seat or a place at the bar. And that's one of the
6 reasons, one of the huge differences between the guidelines
7 that were originally put together and some of the other
8 examples we have been given.
9 So in Allegheny County, this was not being
10 enforced, obviously, because there was a congregation of
11 young people in bars where they felt like they traced the
12 contact tracing back to. We worked with Allegheny County,
13 meaning the PRLA, and the Allegheny County Department of
14 Health in creating what has now been rolled out, which is
15 called Safe Service Allegheny, which is a program which
16 helps restaurants and bars there to comply.
17 Essentially, there are no bars anymore because
18 bars have been shut down, but had they been following the
19 guidelines, or had the guidelines been enforced, I might
20 say, I don't think that situation would have ever happened.
21 Bar seating is really important, and this was
22 brought up by one of my colleagues today, because in many
23 restaurants, and I don't know about you, but when my wife
24 and I go out, we like to sit at the bar and eat, socially
25 distanced from others, and that seating is required to ever 59
1 get back to 50 percent.
2 One last thing on the 25-percent number that
3 Dr. Levine pointed out that they got from the White House.
4 I'm not sure about that number, but I can tell you that in
5 the middle of August, according to an Association of
6 Retired Persons survey, national survey, there was only
7 five States that had their restaurants at 25 percent.
8 Pennsylvania, obviously, was one of them. And 26 of the
9 States had no requirements at all on capacity, recognizing
10 that if you are social distancing, if you are face masking,
11 if you have a "no seat, no service" rule, that that's the
12 most important thing to stop the spread of the virus.
13 And in fact, we have tried to set up restaurants
14 at 50 percent with a social distancing of 6 feet, as is
15 required now. It's hard to get there anyway. So it was a
16 redundant requirement, and then the 25 percent simply
17 closed restaurants.
18 Thank you.
19 MAJORITY LABOR AND INDUSTRY CHAIRMAN COX: Thank
20 you.
21 Next we have a question from Representative Roae.
22 REPRESENTATIVE ROAE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
23 And this question is for Dr. Levine. A lot of my
24 constituents are still really confused about all these
25 numbers and percentages, and if this room we're in right 60
1 now were part of a casino, you and Governor Wolf said we
2 could use 50 percent of the capacity, but if this was part
3 of a restaurant, we can only use 25 percent of the
4 capacity. If this was a bar with no food, you and Governor
5 Wolf said we could have zero people in here. If this was
6 an area where people are watching a youth hockey game or a
7 girls' volleyball game, there could only be 25 people in
8 here -- not 25 percent, 25 people. If this was a riot
9 staging area, there could be an unlimited number of people
10 in here. How does COVID-19 know? I mean, why isn't there
11 a consistent number, so many people per square feet? And
12 it just seems, it just doesn't make any sense.
13 At a high school football game, all those empty
14 bleachers, a limit of 250 people, but if that football
15 field area was part of an amusement park, you could have
16 thousands of people in that exact same area. The rules
17 that you and Governor Wolf are making, they're probably
18 well intended, but they just don't make any sense.
19 Like, how do you justify that, I mean, if a
20 high school got a Ferris wheel and bumper cars, can they
21 have thousands of people watch the football game? I mean,
22 if a bar that you ordered closed starts selling pizza, can
23 they open back up again? I mean, how does COVID-19 know
24 who to attack and who not to attack, and why aren't there
25 some kind of consistent, scientifically common sense, 61
1 logical kind of things put in place?
2 SECRETARY LEVINE: Please go ahead.
3 EXECUTIVE DEPUTY SECRETARY BOATENG: Yeah.
4 Thank you, and thank you for that question. I
5 think those are questions we have heard---
6 REPRESENTATIVE ROAE: I would like Dr. Levine to
7 answer. She is the Secretary.
8 SECRETARY LEVINE: Actually, we all work very
9 closely together, and Executive Secretary Boateng will
10 answer.
11 EXECUTIVE DEPUTY SECRETARY BOATENG: So I want to
12 go back to, you know, this virus is most often transmitted
13 person to person through close contact interaction, so
14 being within 6 feet of someone for 15 minutes.
15 REPRESENTATIVE ROAE: Okay. So hold on. So at a
16 hockey arena where parents could be---
17 EXECUTIVE DEPUTY SECRETARY BOATENG: Let me
18 answer the question.
19 REPRESENTATIVE ROAE: No, no. Hold on.
20 EXECUTIVE DEPUTY SECRETARY BOATENG: I was
21 getting right to that point.
22 REPRESENTATIVE ROAE: At a hockey arena where
23 parents could be---
24 EXECUTIVE DEPUTY SECRETARY BOATENG: So in order
25 to talk about that, individuals, you know -- so you had 62
1 highlighted an example of a business versus a restaurant.
2 So often in a restaurant, individuals are sitting together
3 in close contact, within 6 feet, for more than 15 minutes.
4 So those interactions happen often and regularly and
5 intentionally. The same is possible at sporting events,
6 where individuals are sitting there for an extended period
7 of time watching their children play sports.
8 REPRESENTATIVE ROAE: Well, hold on. Hold on a
9 second. Hold on.
10 EXECUTIVE DEPUTY SECRETARY BOATENG: In this
11 instance, for an individual---
12 REPRESENTATIVE ROAE: I got to ask something
13 here.
14 MAJORITY LABOR AND INDUSTRY CHAIRMAN COX: Excuse
15 me. If I could ask for everybody to stop for a moment.
16 EXECUTIVE DEPUTY SECRETARY BOATENG: It's not
17 often, when using this space, to spend time---
18 MAJORITY LABOR AND INDUSTRY CHAIRMAN COX: Excuse
19 me. If I could ask everyone to stop for a moment.
20 I have been to several of these hearings, and
21 the Departments, whether it is Labor or Health, have a
22 habit of going on and on and on and never making it to the
23 heart of the question. And so I would ask that you get to
24 the heart of the question and answer it and then wait for
25 follow-up. 63
1 We have unlimited time today. As far as I know,
2 session is not going to happen until they call us in, so we
3 will continue to have questions answered. But I would ask
4 that you get to the heart of answering the question rather
5 than going on tangents and filibusters, as we have seen.
6 So thank you, and I'll go back to Representative
7 Roae.
8 REPRESENTATIVE ROAE: In the case of a hockey
9 arena--
10 SECRETARY LEVINE: Representative, may I just
11 respond to that?
12 REPRESENTATIVE ROAE: -- or a high school gym---
13 SECRETARY LEVINE: We strongly disagree with
14 that. I'm trying to answer your question.
15 MAJORITY LABOR AND INDUSTRY CHAIRMAN COX:
16 Secretary Levine, Representative Roae is speaking.
17 Secretary Levine, Representative Roae is speaking at the
18 moment. Please wait.
19 REPRESENTATIVE ROAE: In the event of a hockey
20 arena where the capacity is many, many, many hundreds of
21 people and all the parents could be 8 feet apart from each
22 other or 10 feet apart from each other, in a high school
23 football field stadium where the stadium seats maybe
24 4,000 people, and again, people could stay 7 or 8 feet
25 apart from each other, not just 6 feet, why is that not 64
1 allowed? Why does COVID-19 attack those people if they did
2 get into that setting, but at a casino, inside, people can
3 be sitting very closely to each other? It just doesn't
4 make any sense.
5 And when you're at a high school football game or
6 a girls' volleyball game and you have girls sitting out in
7 the hallway -- there's a gym that holds 3,000 people, and
8 some of the girl volleyball players are sitting out in the
9 hallway and they can't go into the game, and the coach has
10 to send somebody out to the hallway, oh, go get Lisa, we're
11 going to sub her in; oh, Jill, you have to go out in the
12 hallway now, but if that exact room was part of a casino,
13 you, Secretary Levine and Governor Wolf, you would allow a
14 couple thousand people in that exact same room. It doesn't
15 make any sense.
16 And why are our bars and clubs closed just
17 because they don't serve food? If I'm sitting here
18 drinking something, I'm going to get COVID-19 and die, but
19 if I'm eating something, oh, I'm safe all of a sudden, so
20 it can be open. I mean, it doesn't make sense. Why can't
21 the Department of Health actually use scientifically based
22 data? Why can't you have rules that make sense? Although
23 the court did say that you and Governor Wolf violated our
24 constitutional rights with capacity limits, so I'm
25 surprised the Department and Governor Wolf hasn't put out 65
1 more of a statement saying that limits are
2 unconstitutional. But if you're going to have limits, why
3 don't you at least have limits that make sense?
4 And somebody asked me, so I'm going to ask you,
5 if we put a tax rate on high school hockey and high school
6 girls' volleyball, if we tax those tickets at the same rate
7 that we tax slot machines, would the Administration
8 consider allowing 50 percent capacity like you do with the
9 casino? Because some people are saying it's a money thing.
10 Casinos make a lot of money, a lot of tax money for the
11 State. Is that why they have a larger capacity?
12 Secretary?
13 EXECUTIVE DEPUTY SECRETARY BOATENG: Sir, we
14 don't establish---
15 SECRETARY LEVINE: Again, Sarah Boateng will
16 respond.
17 EXECUTIVE DEPUTY SECRETARY BOATENG: Sir, we
18 don't establish tax policy here. We are a public health
19 department. So it is our duty to protect the health and
20 welfare of Pennsylvanians, not to determine tax policy.
21 REPRESENTATIVE ROAE: I know. But I'm saying if
22 we implemented a tax on high school volleyball tickets and
23 high school hockey tickets, would the Department switch to
24 50 percent capacity like you do for the casinos? Because a
25 lot of people believe the reason casinos get to go up to 66
1 50 percent is because of the high tax revenue involved.
2 But if that same exact area was a viewing area for
3 high school sports, you can't have anybody there for that
4 same exact--
5 EXECUTIVE DEPUTY SECRETARY BOATENG: Sir, to
6 be--
7 REPRESENTATIVE ROAE: It just doesn't make any
8 sense.
9 EXECUTIVE DEPUTY SECRETARY BOATENG: Sir, to
10 be--
11 SECRETARY LEVINE: Would you like us to answer a
12 public health question or to answer your questions about
13 casinos in schools, which doesn't make any sense.
14 REPRESENTATIVE ROAE: Well, what doesn't make any
15 sense are all the Executive orders and the issues out of
16 your office.
17 In this exact room 3 months ago, Secretary, I
18 asked you, what is after the green reopening phase? What's
19 it called? What's the criteria to get there? And we still
20 don't know. I mean, a lot of things just don't make any
21 sense.
22 You had this color-coded thing, red, yellow,
23 green, county by county, and then boom, suddenly every
24 frickin' restaurant in the whole State was under the same
25 rules, regardless of whether there were only a few cases or 67
1 a thousand cases.
2 I mean, the frustrating part of this situation is
3 none of the stuff coming out of the Governor's Office, none
4 of the stuff coming out of the Secretary of Health' s
5 Office, none of it has made any sense during this entire
6 time. It's just all random. Nothing seems to be based in
7 actual numbers or statistics or common sense, and could we
8 start doing that?
9 SECRETARY LEVINE: Representative, we're going to
10 agree to disagree in terms of our orders. We feel that our
11 orders have made a lot of sense. We feel that that court
12 decision will be overruled in the Circuit Court, and we
13 feel that we have been entirely consistent in terms of our
14 rules and regulations according to public health measures.
15 And that has actually saved lives, as has been noted by
16 Dr. Birx.
17 Thank you.
18 REPRESENTATIVE ROAE: All right. I'm going to be
19 done now.
20 MAJORITY LABOR AND INDUSTRY CHAIRMAN COX: Thank
21 you, Representative Roae.
22 I just want to put a brief question in. I'll
23 call it the prerogative of the Chair.
24 It was several months ago as well that I, on a
25 Zoom call, asked what the next phase after the green phase 68
1 would look like, and I was told by you, the Secretary of
2 Health, that we would see that you were putting something
3 together and within the next couple of weeks we would see
4 what was after the green phase. What came after the green
5 phase, in reality, was the 50 going to 25 percent and all
6 of the other arbitrary things that just seemed to bounce
7 around based on whatever the news of the day is.
8 And so I would ask that if there is a document
9 guiding what follows the green phase, that you submit it to
10 both the Labor Chairman -- myself -- also the Health.
11 Secretary, I serve on both committees, so the Chairman of
12 Health would love to see that and the Committee Members of
13 both committees would love to see that. We were promised
14 it a long time ago. At what point do we assume it doesn't
15 exist?
16 SECRETARY LEVINE: So--
17 MAJORITY LABOR AND INDUSTRY CHAIRMAN COX: So
18 please provide that to us at your earliest convenience.
19 Can I ask you, does that document exist? I'll
20 just ask you point-blank.
21 SECRETARY LEVINE: So after the green phase
22 when we were down at 300 or 400 new cases per day were
23 the increases that we talked about before, led by younger
24 individuals at bars and restaurants and nightclubs and
25 gatherings that started in Florida and other 69
1 Southern States and then spread to Pennsylvania, and our
2 response was the targeted mitigation that we have all
3 been discussing involving those specific bars and
4 restaurants and nightclubs that we have been discussing.
5 So instead of the more broader mitigation that we did with
6 the red, yellow, green phase, we did a more targeted
7 surgical mitigation to the businesses that were most
8 implicated in the increases, as discussed by the White
9 House Task Force.
10 That was successful. We were able to bring down
11 the numbers by August, down significantly through August
12 and the beginning of September. We have seen some
13 increases since that time, because we are not an island and
14 we are responsive to what happens in the rest of the
15 country. And we will again keep our mitigation as targeted
16 and specific as possible as opposed to the more broader
17 mitigations and business closures that were necessary in
18 the spring. So that is the answer to your question, sir.
19 MAJORITY LABOR AND INDUSTRY CHAIRMAN COX: I
20 would repeat my request for the document you stated was in
21 production at the time of the hearing when I asked for it
22 and you said it was in the works. So I would hope that you
23 have that on a shelf somewhere that you can pull off and
24 send it over to us by the end of the day. That would be
25 great. 70
1 Our next individual is Representative Daley. I
2 believe she's joining us online.
3 REPRESENTATIVE DALEY: I am joining you online,
4 and thank you for the opportunity to ask a question of
5 Dr. Levine and her colleagues in the Department of Health.
6 I actually have two questions that I wanted to
7 ask. I'll ask them both, one after the other. So I wanted
8 to know, is Pennsylvania collecting racial data in the
9 information that you collect? And my second question has
10 to do with the COVID Alert PA app. And I have that
11 downloaded, and I have been encouraging family and friends
12 and my staff to download it.
13 MAJORITY LABOR AND INDUSTRY CHAIRMAN COX:
14 Excuse me. We have to interrupt the meeting for a moment.
15 Representative Rapp has a statement that she needs to make.
16 MAJORITY HEALTH CHAIRMAN RAPP: Yes.
17 I would like the Members of the Committee to
18 please be at ease for a few moments. And Whitney,
19 Representative Cox, Mr. Scarpato, if you would like to join
20 me in the Speaker's Office, please.
21 Please be at ease, and we shall return.
22
23 (The public hearing was put at ease.)
24
25 MAJORITY LABOR AND INDUSTRY CHAIRMAN COX: I 71
1 thank you for everyone's patience. At this time, we have
2 been informed that the House will be convening, so for that
3 reason, we'll be needing to end this meeting. We will
4 recess it in the hopes of, not necessarily continuing
5 today; I know a lot of schedules have to be shifted around
6 for that, but we will potentially attempt to reschedule in
7 the future to continue with the discussion.
8 We still have a large number of individuals with
9 questions, and so we do thank you for your availability
10 today, and we hope you'll be available in the future for
11 additional questions and so forth.
12 Thank you.
13
14 At 11:10 a.m., the public hearing recessed.) 72
1 I hereby certify that the foregoing proceedings
2 are a true and accurate transcription produced from audio
3 on the said proceedings and that this is a correct
4 transcript of the same.
5
6
7
8 Debra B. Miller
9 Transcriptionist