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Home , Robben Ford, Shawn Phillips

JANUARY 2000 discoveries 39

Shawn Phillips: Ignored Talent? by Albert Salerno out the ‘70s and ‘80s, and he never acoustic trio, and occasionally with a Collins. Like Phillips, Collins had been Since the mid–1960s, when he began scored the hit single which might have 7–piece band. When he’s not on the consciously moving away from folk as veering away from folk music, Shawn helped him expand his audience. But road, Phillips lives with his wife in she began using rock and neo–classical Phillips’ music has been nearly impos- certain of Shawn’s albums were popu- Austin, Texas, where he serves as a orchestral arrangements. Her record- sible to categorize. Is he a progressive lar in the midwestern and southern part–time volunteer firefighter and cer- ing of ’s “Both Sides Now” folk–rocker, a protest singer, or a United States, on the West Coast, Cana- tified emergency technician. was given a straight–ahead pop treat- singer of orchestrated pop? da, and South Africa. During the 1970s, he tended to be ment, became a Top 10 single, and Perhaps “singer of art songs” is Phillips’ voice has always been his overshadowed by fellow ex–folkies like introduced her to a mass audience in more accurate. Yet each of these trademark – hear him once, and you’ll James Taylor, Paul Simon, Neil Young, 1968. Had Shawn’s “progressive pop” descriptions could be justified by lis- usually recognize him again. His 35 Jackson Browne, and Joni Mitchell. songs reached those listeners who were tening to a scattering of tunes on any year career has been fraught with bad Some of these performers lacked embracing Collins, he might have of his Best Of compilations, and every management, lack of promotion, tax Shawn’s vocal gifts, but due to other enjoyed a similar crossover success. person who listens is apt to hear some- problems, and various mis–dealings. factors – better management, higher In the liner notes for the 1992 com- thing different. At a particularly low point in the early visibility, more accessible songwriting – pilation, The Best Of -- An exceptional singer with a 1980s, he could be found playing guitar they achieved a level of stardom that The A&M Years, Bob Garcia writes: multi–octave range, Shawn Phillips is and panhandling on Santa Monica Pier. would elude Shawn throughout his “Phillips has never played the rock perhaps the definitive American cult Although currently without a record- career. Radio by then had already and roll game with exactly accepted artist. Perhaps you know his music; ing contract, Shawn still makes his liv- begun solidifying into the rigid cate- rules. A prolific writer, Phillips has maybe you’ve only heard of him, or ing as a performer. Stubbornly refus- gories in place today. Programmers composed poetry, fairy tales, and even possibly remember the image of the ing to take part in the corporate music must have considered Phillips someone two ballets. He has continually long–haired guy with hazel eyes that hustle, he appears at festivals, college who fell just outside their ever–narrow- worked outside of mainstream rock, in stared dreamily out from his album concerts and bars – any place where ing formats, and excluded him from a variety of musical forms – from his covers. His dozen or so albums he can connect with his audience. He their playlists. A fellow ex–folksinger early symphonic, fully–orchestrated received only regional airplay through- performs either solo, as part of an who escaped a similar fate was Judy musical tone poems, to his much later photo: Rob Gravis photo: Rob 40 JANUARY 2000 discoveries

rock / musical configuration with be finding them again every day. I’m scat, be-bop and croon vocalizing.” always surprised at what an avid bunch Shawn adds: “I have chosen to be a they are, too.” musician. I discovered early in life that Barry Margolis, who worked in a I had what I consider the greatest gift Minneapolis record store in the early any individual can be given – the ability “Second ‘70s, says Second Contribution was a to create music. Not rock and roll, but monster hit in Minneapolis. “Our local music.” progressive station, KQRS–FM, was A&M Records co–owner Jerry Moss playin’ the shit out of that album, along says, “I admired and had a great deal of Contribution was with people like Joni Mitchell and Jack- respect for Shawn Phillips when I son Browne, while ignoring all the inter- worked with him. He was, to me, a very esting British artists like David Bowie, interesting and unique artist. He never Mott The Hoople, and Roxy Music.” fit into any particular slot on the pro- one of the finest Arlo Hennings says of Second Contribu- gramming scale, but he was a wonderful tion, “It is Shawn’s Let It Bleed, Dark guitarist, composer and vocalist. Bright, Side Of The Moon, – take your pick, hall- sometimes downright funny, and always mark. Personally, I think the record easy to be around.” American should be recognized by the [Rock & A host of legendary musicians have Roll] Hall of Fame as a work of special appeared on Shawn Phillip’s albums; merit. It was one of the finest American keyboardists , Joe Sam- progressive rock albums ever made. In ple and , guitarists Glen progressive rock Quebec and South Africa for example, Campbell, , it’s considered a cult classic like and , bassists Alphonso Sergeant Pepper.” Johnson, Lee Sklar and , albums ever made.” To further substantiate his claim, drummers and Jeff Por- Hennings credits Shawn with introduc- caro, among many others, have con- ing the sitar into pop music. Phillips tributed their services. Producer was instrumental for the sitar being Jonathan Weston and orchestral the series, My Favorite Things, with a Shawn remembers. “They were truly heard on a few songs from ’s arranger (who also similar format. A merger with CBS more interested in who made really Sunshine Superman album in 1966. But provided orchestration for Elton John) resulted in the re–release of both good music than who would sell the the commercially oriented Hall of Fame were longtime collaborators, providing albums, but after poor sales, the strug- most singles. There were, of course the is not noted for inducting many cult lush settings for Shawn’s quirky compo- gling folksinger was dropped from the usual bunch of naysayers and artists into its hallowed ranks; and, sitions. label. (The Landsdowne masters were bean–counters like Bob Fead. Still, notwithstanding its immeasurable Born in 1943 in Fort Worth, Texas, subsequently acquired by Polygram, some 60,000 records [sold] by word of stature in Indian classical music, the Shawn is the son of writer/journalist and are now owned by Universal.) mouth alone should give you some indi- sitar’s influence on pop music proved to James Atlee Phillips, who published a In London, Shawn roomed briefly cation that you might have had a hot one be fleeting, briefly adding a quaint touch long series of cold–war espionage novels with Donovan, with whom he co–wrote on your hands. At last report, the people of druggy exotica during the psychedel- in the 1960s under the name “Philip the Sunshine Superman album. During who were working there believe that the ic ‘60s. Atlee,” and also wrote the screenplay this period, he met and hung out with finest record made at RCA during their Today at 56, Shawn is brimming with for the 1958 film “Thunder Road,” star- the Moody , Paul Simon, and sev- tenure was Transcendence.” insights, and has amassed a bumper ring Robert Mitchum. As a child, eral Beatles, and also acted in a film Phillips survived open-heart surgery crop of new compositions. There are Shawn traveled constantly with his called “Run With The Wind.” Return- in 1991. “I had no idea that 42 years of enough, he says, to fill three CDs. What father, settling for brief periods in vari- ing to America, he was chosen to play smoking, stress, and fatty foods, (in that he lacks is a label to provide the finan- ous parts of the United States, Mexico, the lead in the Broadway musical “Jesus order), had caught up with me. After cial backing necessary to produce such the Canary Islands, Tahiti, France, Eng- Christ Superstar,” but when the deal fell the procedure, I was glad to be alive, a project, and then to promote it. Shawn land, Switzerland, Germany, Africa and through, Phillips set off for Europe but I felt incredibly violated. After the speaks in a Texas accent far too ener- Italy. again, eventually settling in Italy. pain passed I went into a deep depres- getic to be called a drawl, and recently Shawn’s musical talents were evident In 1970, he was signed to A&M sion, and still am to some degree. I discussed his long career and its current from an early age. In addition to his Records, which released his Contribu- know how many people out there love challenges with the magazine. impressive vocal range, he also became tion album, a collection of folk–rock my work, and how I have affected peo- Discoveries: I’m hearing your early a nimble and creative guitarist. Add to songs with cryptic lyrics that seemed ple all over the world, maybe changed folk albums for the first time, and they this his talent for composing offbeat deliberately obscure. His next two their lives or helped them get through are certainly as good as a lot of the stuff songs, many of which reflected the cyni- releases, Second Contribution and Col- crises and trauma, and I cannot get that came out in the ‘60s. Why weren’t cism and spiritual musings of the 1970s, laboration, continued in this style. Fur- through to them any longer, because of these records released in the United with titles like “Manhole Covered thermore, from 1974, was recorded with the arrogance, greed, and flat–out stu- States before now? Wagon” and “Schmaltz Waltz.” Finally, the English rock band Quartermass. pidity of the people who control the Phillips: I don’t know, I’ve never there is that unmistakable image: long, The late 1970s found Shawn experi- machinery of the music industry.” understood it. Never had really aggres- straight blonde hair which fell languidly menting with a variety of musical gen- In 1994 Shawn Phillips became the sive management. I’ve never bothered past his shoulders, reaching almost to res, including classical, jazz, progressive first American musician to perform myself with the business part of things, his waist. Blue–jeaned and black–caped, rock, and even disco. A distinct funki- there in over 20 years, ending the cul- always trusted someone else, because he was the consummate flower child, a ness could be heard on 1975’s Do You tural embargo which had remained in you really can’t do both simultaneously. perfect hippie emblem for the times. Wonder, which Billboard called “an effect during apartheid. Beginning with So these two albums have finally been While in high school in Fort Worth, intriguing mix of disco–styled songs, the Splashy Fen Festival, a career high- released in America on CD, thanks to Shawn played in his first band, The some soul, a bit of scat singing and a point which demonstrated to Phillips his Terry Wachsmuth at Wounded Bird Straight Jackets, which featured class- side devoted primarily to classically–ori- incredible popularity in South Africa, he Records. He used the original artwork – mate Delbert McClinton on vocals. John ented material, with strong vocals from went on to play 27 shows in that country, talk about a pimply–faced kid on the Denver (then known as John Deutchen- Phillips in all of the formats.” Of this of which 20 were sold out. record cover! dorf) attended the same high school, and period, Shawn says, “The entire U.S.A. Shawn has changed with the times. Discoveries: What brought you to occasionally performed with Shawn. went apathetic and spiritually bankrupt, His current interest in electronics has London when you were 20? After leaving high school, Shawn didn’t want to think any more, and led to the creation of an elaborate web- Phillips: I went to England on my embarked on an existence worthy of escaped with dance music.” site (shawnphillips.com). Eight of way to India, to study the sitar. I was Kerouac – bumming across the country While certain of his albums sold fairly Shawn’s albums have been reissued for playing at a party, and I met Dennis Pre- with his buddy , getting high well (Second Contribution eventually the first time on CD, and are selling ston, who unfortunately is now on LSD and mescaline, performing in went platinum in Canada and South briskly over the internet. Arlo Hen- deceased. He was involved with Colum- coffeehouses all over the U.S. and Cana- Africa), Phillips was unable to come up nings, Shawn’s manager, negotiated for bia’s “Landsdowne” series. He liked my da. Eventually he became a regular on with the “Holy Grail” he needed to the release of I’m A Loner, Shawn, Con- playing and singing, and he asked if I’d the Greenwich Village folk scene, along solidify his career – a hit single. In tribution, Collaboration, Bright White, like to make an album. with Hardin, John Sebastian, Carly 1973, three of his singles found their Furthermore, Do You Wonder, and Tran- Discoveries: Just like that? Had you Simon, and Cass Elliot. way onto the lower rungs of Billboard’s scendence. Aided by Phillips’ fan club been performing prior to this? In 1963, at age 20, Shawn emigrated Top 100: “We,” “Bright White,” and his and the New York–based Wounded Bird Phillips: I’d been performing in Cali- to London, where he made his first last–charting appearance, “Lost Hori- Records, Hennings pulled off this coup fornia, New York – I’d been doing gigs album. First Impressions was recorded zon,” the theme from the ill–fated based on the interest generated by the for quite some time. I was in New York for the Lansdowne Series, a Capitol Bacharach/David film musical. website. “We don’t know exactly who with Tim Hardin, and then we traveled Records affiliate, and included interpre- His recording schedule slowed down Shawn’s fan base is anymore,” says out to California. During that time I was tations of songs by Phil Ochs, Shel Sil- in the 1980s, although he continued to Hennings. “We get an average of 1500 getting gigs in all kinds of places, the verstein, Gibson & Camp, Rodgers & tour. Reluctantly leaving A&M, he hits per day on the site. I believe most Midwest, Toronto. I spent some time Hammerstein, and some originals. The recorded the Transcendence album for of them are USA fans who lost track of with Joni Mitchell there when she was next year he made a second album for RCA. “A&M was really a family affair,” Shawn in the early ‘80s. But we seem to just getting started. JANUARY 2000 discoveries 41

Discoveries: Did you perform with countries. her? Because of this, I know it was the Phillips: No, she wasn’t performing music that carried them. The most dif- then, but I taught her how to play gui- ficult thing for any musician, compos- tar. I was playing in Saskatchewan, at er, or songwriter to do is to create a place called the Louie Reo Coffee “This entire unique melodies. Over the thousands House, where she was working as a of years that music has been created, waitress. I was playing my red for someone to come up with a brand twelve–string at that time, and she new melody is really the most difficult said, “Can you give me some guitar industry is made up thing. That’s one of the reasons I veer lessons?” So I gave her a few lessons, more toward writing what I consider taught her a few things. classical music. I was always influ- Discoveries: How did you discover enced by classical composers, the sitar? of nothing but Debussy, Prokofiev, those kind of peo- Phillips: I had gone to Toronto in ple. And when Pete [Robinson] and around 1963 or ‘64 to play at a coffee Paul [Buckmaster] jumped into my life house called the Purple Onion, and 35 years ago, they started playing me somebody there told me to go see this charlatans and composers like Krzystof Penderecki, guy called Ravi Shankar, that he plays and that totally turned my head this strange instrument called the sitar. around. So, on my night off, I went to his con- thieves.” Discoveries: People don’t think of cert in Toronto, and after the concert, Shawn Phillips as a classical composer. he was kind enough to sit down with Phillips: Part of the reason for that me for about four hours. He showed is, there is no category for me. If they me how to sit with the instrument, how had a box for composer, it would just to hold it, the very basics of the sitar, like to do if you had the chance?’ So I man. open up an entirely new field in the and that hooked me. told him about the trilogy I wanted to Discoveries: What was it like to be a music industry. They almost tried to I think Donovan was the first person make, that included the fairy tale, and pop star during the 1970s? Were you do that with New Age, but it ended up in pop music to use a sitar, on a tune the semi–classical music I’d been writ- pretty much living the “high life” back a lot of computer sequencing. off the Sunshine Superman album ing, and all the new songs, as well as then? Discoveries: Do you listen to New called “Guenevere.” the first attempt at science fiction on a Phillips: Well, it wasn’t really so Age music? Discoveries: How did you happen to record. So he went back to England, much the “high life,” because I wasn’t Phillips: No, there’s not a lot of it get signed by A&M? he got together with , and living in the United States. I was still that’s much good. There’s a couple of Phillips: Jonathan Weston, who was they came up with the $25,000 we in Positano, a small fishing village in folks out there that are happening, but my English manager, came to Italy needed to record three albums. Italy. The best part about it was, I was not too many. after I’d lived there a couple of years, We did in fact record all three, and making enough money to be able to Discoveries: Would you be comfort- and he said, ‘Do you want to come Jonathan took them to a guy named continue to buy the equipment that I able as a New Age musician? back to America and make a record?’ Jerry Love at A&M Records, who lis- needed to go forward in creating Phillips: No, I couldn’t go that route, And I said, ‘No, I’ve got my 2–track tened to them and called Jerry Moss music. I finally became aware that because, very simply, there’s too much Revox tape recorder, I’m having a real that afternoon and said, ‘We have to people were listening to my music and energy in my work. The only thing I can good time just creating music, and I’m sign this guy!’ They flew Jonathan and really responding to it. say is, they can put any label they want not ready for any of this to come out me out to Los Angeles, and we did the Discoveries: So far, you’ve released on me at this point, as long as I make a yet.’ He said, ‘Well, what would you deal then. In my opinion, Jerry Moss 14 albums. Who are your fans? living at it. is the only person with any integrity in Phillips: People love my work. Discoveries: You have threatened to the recording industry. That’s all there is to it. The funniest BELOW: South Africa tour 1994; L-R: He’s still my friend to this day, and I part about it is that most of my records Jonny Fourie, Shawn, Travor Donjeany have a great deal of respect for the were sold in non–English speaking BELOW: “Bright White Tour” 1975 42 JANUARY 2000 discoveries

title your memoirs “The Two Most and I went out there and finished the Important Words in the Music Business: concert. Of course I didn’t sleep for Fuck You!” Sounds like you really been two days, but it was well worth it. screwed. Discoveries: What kind of venues Phillips: I have. If your manager, or are you playing these days? whoever it is you’re working with – if Phillips: On my Canadian tour, it’s they do something wrong, it’s considered mostly college gigs, bars. For me it your fault. Another big part of my disil- never really matters where I play. If lusionment with the music industry is I’m in a bar, I turn it into a concert hall. [one experience] that could have turned This has lost me work in the United my entire life around, but it really disap- States. I’ve tried to go back into certain pointed me. I was approached by two clubs where I’d packed the place, and gentlemen, Kevin Maher and Wink Mar- the manager says, ‘Nah, you made my tindale, to write some music for a televi- bar into a concert hall. We don’t sell sion special called “The Game Show enough alcohol when you play here!’ Biz.” I wrote the music for it, 36 min- Discoveries: How did you first dis- utes of music for this program. I did cover you had a large South African fol- everything by the book, cue sheets, lowing? index cards, the whole lot, who the pub- Phillips: I ran into some South lisher is, all this stuff. I presented it to African people at Peter Robinson’s ASCAP, and I waited and waited for my house. They were staying downstairs royalties. I asked the people at ASCAP, from him. When Peter introduced us, ‘How does this work, how do I get paid?’ Hugh Ambrose these people just went nuts! I said, ‘You and they told me, ‘For anything you do guys know my music?’ and they said, that goes before the public, you will be anger, with wonder, and with technique. ABOVE: Shawn Phillips and Donovan, ‘Didn’t you know? You’re bigger than compensated as the composer.’ That was Anger is, when you look at the world 1964 Paul Simon in South Africa!’ I told their promise to me. I remember the around you; is it a perfect place? If you them they were out of their minds, but guy saying this. Well, I did this program, think it is, then you’re probably certifi- that I got unchosen was simply because they said ‘Absolutely not!’ and soon and it aired on 136 stations across the able. Wonder comes from looking at the subsequently discov- afterwards I got over there, and it was nation, including WNBC in New York world through the eyes of a child. And ered that Jonathan Weston was my very strange. City, at 9:00 p.m. Prime time! And I technique is keeping a balance between manager, CMA was my agent, Dick When we drove in from the airport, I waited and waited, and finally I went the two.’ That’s the way I write, always James was my publisher, A&M was my kept seeing signs and posters on tele- back to ASCAP and said, ‘Where are my has been. record company, and Stigwood wasn’t phone poles and walls, with my name royalties for this work?’ and they came Discoveries: The theme of your cur- going to get his finger in the pie! on them. I said, ‘Is that the advertising back with something like, ‘Oh, well, we rent tour is “Health, Love, and Clarity.” Discoveries: Were you disappointed? for the concerts we’re going to do?’ and have a company that does random sam- What does this mean? Phillips: A bit, at the time. But in they said ‘No, those are concerts that pling. They’ll watch the television for Phillips: I realized that you can’t have retrospect, no. Ted Neely, who ended up have already happened.’ I said, ‘Wait a four hours in Dubuque, Iowa, and if your any one of those three without the other getting the part, is a good friend of minute, I’ve never been here before, program comes up, we pay you, and if it two. I like to come up with sayings, I mine. He’s happy with what he’s doing man!’ They stopped the van, and I got doesn’t, we don’t pay you.’ like to take situations in life and give now, but he always felt that the part out and looked at one of the posters. It They called this an excuse! Random them a verbal definition that anybody limited him, he hasn’t really been able had my name in big letters, and under- sampling. I never got a penny for it. will understand. People ask me what my to do anything else after that. neath it said, “A Tribute to Shawn Had they paid me what they were sup- philosophy is. I tell them, ‘If I tell you Discoveries: Tell me about the movie Phillips.” It was singer/songwriters in posed to pay me, it would have been what my philosophy is, I’m just telling you starred in. South Africa that were doing my works! about $468,000. That really disappointed you how full of shit I am!’ Phillips: In 1964, I made a movie I was fairly impressed with that. me, that really turned me off to the Discoveries: Which singers do you called “Run With the Wind” in England. Discoveries: And you’d been whole thing. listen to? I wrote the music for it, and Phillip unaware of this? Discoveries: Wasn’t there any way to Phillips: My favorite singer is a man Martell did the musical direction. The Phillips: Completely! It was very fight this? named Carl Anderson. Carl sang the movie starred another guy named Sean, gratifying. I was absolutely amazed. Phillips: We tried, with lawyers and part of Judas in “.” I can’t remember his last name, and the Within the next six months, after that everything, but because of the previous Great voice. Shakespearian actress Francesca Annis first visit, I ended up doing more shows problems with my management, I had Discoveries: What was your involve- (I wrote the songs “Woman” and “Hey, than any international artist had ever some I.R.S. problems, and there wasn’t a ment with “Jesus Christ Superstar?” Miss Lonely” for Francesca). Anyway, done there. I enjoyed it immensely. I lawyer in the world that would touch it. Phillips: Well, I’d heard the record, I this other Sean played the boxer, and I think we’re scheduled to go back there Discoveries: What did you end up knew Peter Robinson had played on it, I played the singer. It was fun, I loved in March, 2000. getting paid for this work? knew Andrew Lloyd Weber and Tim doing it. Discoveries: Tell me about your new Phillips: Not a penny. At that point, I Rice. My agency sent me to the audi- Discoveries: You have a very wide project. just decided that this entire industry is tion. They gave me a song to learn, “The vocal range. Has your voice ever failed Phillips: I would like to re–record made up of nothing but charlatans and Garden of Gethsemane,” and it took me you during a show? some songs that appeared on an album I thieves. That’s what “Money Dance” about 45 minutes. I was in Philadelphia, Phillips: When I played at Lincoln made in Montreal in 1992, The Truth If It (from The Truth if It Kills) was all about, doing a concert, so I flew up to New York Center, I was sick as a dog on the day of Kills. On that project, the producer, which I’m going to re–record, because at 9:00 in the morning, walked out onto the concert. I had no voice at all. I Michel Le Francois, didn’t follow my it’s an important tune.” this stage in a Broadway theater, and it went to see this famous voice doctor, vision. I want to re–record those tunes, Discoveries: It’s too bad you have to was all dark in front of me. I sang the and two minutes before I was supposed because they’re good ones. write a song like that. song, accompanied by a single piano to start the performance, he sprayed What I have in mind is to do a three- Phillips: I know. But all my songs are player, and I heard a voice in the dark- my larynx and vocal chords with pure CD set, because I’ve been writing classi- written from my own life experience. ness say, ‘That’s fine, he’ll do fine.’ I rec- adrenaline. A minute–and–a–half later, cal music for about 15 years now. I want That’s what my dad taught me. ognized the voice, and I said ‘Andrew? I went out on the stage and sang like a to do all the new things I have, re–record He was a great influence on my cre- Andrew is that you?’ and he said ‘Yes!’ bird! It was phenomenal. He sprayed a few others, and present all of it togeth- ativity. He said ‘You need to write with So that’s how I got chosen, and the way me once more during the intermission, er as one project – and I’d like to use the JANUARY 2000 discoveries 43

classical music as links between the your advertisement. So, play our DISCOGRAPHY Second Contribution (CD) A&M songs. record and we’ll pay you for the adver- 7502–13128 Discoveries: Why is it so hard to get tising that you’re providing. That’s Collaboration Wounded Bird your new songs recorded? just how it’s done, it’s business as WOU 4324 Phillips: I haven’t the faintest idea. usual. ALBUMS: Bright White Wounded Bird I’m looking for an investor. After Discoveries: So it must be frustrat- WOU 4402 being in the business all these years, I ing for [you]. I’m A Loner Columbia – Catalog number Furthermore Wounded Bird don’t want to do it unless I can work Phillips: It’s very frustrating. For unknown (1964) Re-released as: WOU 3662 with the same tools that the major the creator of the music, it is not a Favorite Things Capitol – Catalog Do You Wonder Wounded Bird labels use. I need about $400,000, business. If you think of your craft of number unknown (1965) WOU 4539 which in the music industry is chicken songwriting as business, you cannot Shawn Columbia – Catalog number Transcendence Wounded Bird feed; sometimes they spend that much craft a song. You can write a song to unknown (1965) Re–released as: First WOU 3028 for production alone. My production fit into some commercial formula, but Impressions Capitol – Catalog num- fee will be about $150,000, that will do you’re not really crafting a song. ber unknown (1966) everything that I want. Paul Buckmas- For example, on that ill–fated album, Contribution A&M SP–4241 (1970) ter and Peter Robinson will do the there’s a song called “Most of Us Don’t Second Contribution A&M SP–4282 SINGLES: arranging and producing. It’ll be the Understand at All.” I think it’s partic- (1970) “Terrible Trio” back together again! ularly well–crafted, but what they want Collaboration A&M SP–4324 (1971) The (New) Frankie And Johnny Song / The remainder of the money will be on commercial radio is music that is Faces A&M SP-4363 (1972) Cloudy Summer Afternoon – used for promotion. My manager esti- predictable. If you want “predictable” Bright White A&M SP-4402 (1973) Ascot 2152 (1964) mates that in order for the investor to music, you are never going to touch Furthermore A&M SP-3662 (1974) Hey Nelly Nelly / Solitude – recoup, I only have to sell 77,000 CDs. anyone, you are never going to move Do You Wonder A&M SP-4539 (1975) Columbia DB7611 (1965) At that point, the investor will recoup anyone’s soul. The words might take Rumplestiltskin’s Resolve A&M SP–4582 Doesn’t Anybody Know My Name / everything plus 10%. My point is, it’s you to the edge, but it’s the music that (1976) Nobody Listens – Columbia DB7699 not much of a risk for the investor makes you jump. Spaced A&M SP-4650 (1977) (1965) because we’re not trying to establish a Discoveries: Did you expect you’d Transcendence RCA – AFL1–3028 Little Tin Soldier / London Town – market – the market is already there. still be touring when you reached your (1978) Columbia DB7789 (1965) We’ve just got to tell people there’s fifties? Beyond Here Be Dragons (CD) Summer Came / Storm – Columbia something new on the shelf. If I can’t Phillips: No, I did not. When I was Chameleon Records D2–74764 (1988) DB7956 (1966) sell 77,000 CDs, I figure I’m in the living in Italy, and things were happen- The Truth If It Kills (CD) Imagine IMD- Woman Mine / Stargazer – wrong business. ing in the 1970s, I thought, ‘Oh yeah, 2042 (1994) Parlophone R5606 Discoveries: People in the recording everything will work out. I’ll be pretty The Best Of Shawn Phillips A&M The Christmas Song / Lovely Lady – industry don’t seem to have the vision set for my old age, as it were.’ But it SP–9045 (Canada) (1980) A&M 1238 (1970) to look at what the public really thinks didn’t turn out that way. The Best Of Shawn Phillips – The A&M L Ballade / We – A&M 1402 (1972) of your work. The only thing they look Discoveries: How did things change Years (CD) A&M 31454 0016 2 (1992) Lost Horizon / Landscape – at is ‘How did your last album do?’ for you after your quadruple bypass in Another Contribution: An Anthology A&M 1405 (1973) Phillips: Well, my last album had a 1991? (CD) A&M 31454 0508–2 (1995) Anello / Hey Miss Lonely – A&M 1435 legal injunction on it that I made so Phillips: Well, I felt pretty defeated. Lost Horizon (1973 soundtrack) (1973) that it couldn’t be released anyplace I wanted to do something. At that Bell B–1300 Bright White / Dream Queen – else except Quebec, because I didn’t point, I felt like I was a failure at The Best Of Shawn Phillips – The A&M A&M 1482 (1973) like it. Basically what happened was music. My wife has been wonderful, Years (CD) A&M 31454 0016 2 All The Kings And Castles / Salty Tears – that halfway through the album, I told she’s been my biggest supporter, and Another Contribution: An Anthology (CD) A&M 1507 (1974) the guy that he wasn’t going to sell the she made me realize that the music A&M 31454 0508-2 Do You Wonder / Summer Vignette – record, and he didn’t believe me. Basi- itself was wonderful. It was the busi- I’m a Loner (CD) Wounded Bird WOU A&M 1750 (1975) cally, because I’m a platinum record ness end of it that was ugly. I just kept 1748 One Way Ticket – Imagine MS-2037 seller up here in Quebec and Canada, running into unscrupulous people. Shawn (CD) Wounded Bird (1994) the guy was absolutely assured he This is very difficult to say, but every- WOU 6006 could sell it. He gave it to the people thing, everything revolves around Contribution (CD) Wounded Bird WOU at the label [Imagine] to listen to, they money. I just felt that, since I’m not 4241 Shawn Phillips today listened to it for a couple of days, and making money, it’s just not worth it. So just gave it back to him, saying, ‘it’s a I started looking around for something beautiful production, man, but it ain’t I could do that would affect people and Shawn Phillips. We know the work myself, and got into what I’m doing that he does.’ now. Discoveries: So this was not a good After the bypass, all those feelings of collaboration. despondency and depression – I mean, Phillips: No, it was not a good col- you look in the mirror and you feel vio- laboration. Had he listened to me, it lated. But soon after that, at home in could have been a fantastic record, an Austin, I saw on television this com- amazing record, if he’d just let me do munity bulletin board type of thing, what I wanted to do. and they said they needed volunteer Discoveries: Are Peter Robinson firefighters and dispatchers, and I had and Paul Buckmaster eager to work been a firefighter when I was in the with you again? Navy. So I called them up and said, Phillips: Both Peter and Paul are ‘I’ve had this surgery, I’m recovering, 110% gung–ho. They really want to do and so on, and they said, ‘Fine. Here’s it. For Peter, taking the time out to do the fire phone.’ And they put the fire this project is very difficult, because phone in my house! he’s probably one of the top ten film So I did dispatching for a few scorers in the world right now. But months, and as I gradually got better, I he’s committed to the project. started doing maintenance on the Discoveries: The big–selling music trucks around the fire station. Then I today seems to be rap, alternative, started going to the various training techno, and smooth jazz. Have these academies, and now I’m a certified trends affected your market? firefighter in Texas. I just finished a Phillips: No, if I can get the word 14–month course, where I am now also out, and I have the money to hire the an EMT [Emergency Medical Techni- independent promotion men to go to cian]. Believe me, there’s not a whole the radio stations. If I can get my lot of difference between a double tunes played on the radio again, I’ll standing ovation at the Isle of Wight, sell records. The point is, I have to get with 650,000 people, and an 83–year people to go to those twelve or thirteen old lady with a fractured pelvis, after guys that control the entirety of the you’ve transferred her from the ambu- AM/FM formats across the United lance to the ER bed, and she grabs States, and say, ‘Look, if you put this your arm and she looks into your eyes record in rotation, then we’ll give you a and says ‘Thank you so much for tak- percentage of the action. Because ing care of me.’ Not a whole lot of dif- that’s just the way it works. It’s not ference between the two. payola, it’s business. Your record is Arlo Hennings