THE FIRST MEETING OF THE SECOND SESSION OF THE TWELFTH PARLIAMENT MONDAY 07 DECEMBER 2020

ENGLISH VERSION HANSARD NO: 200 THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY SPEAKER The Hon. Phandu T. C. Skelemani PH, MP. DEPUTY SPEAKER The Hon. Mabuse M. Pule, MP. (Mochudi East)

Clerk of the National Assembly - Ms B. N. Dithapo Deputy Clerk of the National Assembly - Mr L. T. Gaolaolwe Learned Parliamentary Counsel - Ms M. Mokgosi Assistant Clerk (E) - Mr R. Josiah CABINET His Excellency Dr M. E. K. Masisi, MP. - President

His Honour S. Tsogwane, MP. (Boteti West) - Vice President Minister for Presidential Affairs, Governance and Public Hon. K. N. S. Morwaeng, MP. (Molepolole South) - Administration

Hon. K. T. Mmusi, MP. (Gabane-Mmankgodi) - Minister of Defence, Justice and Security Hon. Dr L. Kwape, MP. (Kanye South) - Minister of International Affairs and Cooperation Hon. E. M. Molale, MP. (Goodhope-Mabule ) - Minister of Local Government and Rural Development Hon. K. S. Gare, MP. (Moshupa-Manyana) - Minister of Agricultural Development and Food Security Minister of Environment, Natural Resources Conservation Hon. P. K. Kereng, MP. (Specially Elected) - and Tourism Hon. Dr E. G. Dikoloti MP. (Mmathethe-Molapowabojang) - Minister of Health and Wellness Hon. T.M. Segokgo, MP. (Tlokweng) - Minister of Transport and Communications Hon. K. Mzwinila, MP. (Specially Elected) - Minister of Land Management, Water and Sanitation Services Minister of Youth Empowerment, Sport and Culture Hon. T. M. Rakgare, MP. (Mogoditshane) - Development

Hon. A. M. Mokgethi, MP. (Gaborone Bonnington North) - Minister of Nationality, Immigration and Gender Affairs Hon. Dr T. Matsheka, MP. (Lobatse) - Minister of Finance and Economic Development Hon. F. M. M. Molao, MP. (Shashe West) - Minister of Basic Education Minister of Tertiary Education, Research, Science and Hon. Dr D. Letsholathebe, MP. (Tati East) - Technology Minister of Mineral Resources, Green Technology and Hon. L. M. Moagi, MP. (Ramotswa) - Energy Security

Hon. P. O. Serame, MP. (Specially Elected) - Minister of Investment, Trade and Industry Minister of Employment, Labour Productivity and Skills Hon. M. Balopi, MP. (Gaborone North) - Development

Hon. M. Kgafela, MP. (Mochudi West) - Minister of Infrastructure and Housing Development

Assistant Minister, Presidential Affairs, Governance and Hon. D. M. Mthimkhulu, MP. (Gaborone South) - Public Administration Assistant Minister, Local Government and Rural Hon. K. K. Autlwetse, MP. (Specially Elected) - Development Assistant Minister, Local Government and Rural Hon. S. N. Modukanele, MP. (Lerala -Maunatlala) - Development Assistant Minister, Agricultural Development and Food Hon. B. Manake, MP. (Specially Elected) - Security

Hon. S. Lelatisitswe, MP. (Boteti East) - Assistant Minister, Health and Wellness

Hon. N. W. T. Makwinja, MP. (Lentsweletau-Mmopane) - Assistant Minister, Basic Education

Hon. M. S. Molebatsi, MP. (Mmadinare) - Assistant Minister, Investment, Trade and Industry Assistant Minister, Youth Empowerment, Sport and Culture Hon. H. B. Billy, MP. (Francistown East) - Development Hon. M. R. Shamukuni, MP. (Chobe) - Assistant Minister,Tertiary Education, Research, Science and Technology MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT AND THEIR CONSTITUENCIES

Names Constituency

RULING PARTY (Botswana Democratic Party) Hon. L. Kablay, MP. (Government Whip) Letlhakeng-Lephephe Hon. Dr U. Dow, MP. Specially Elected Hon. M. R. Reatile, MP. Jwaneng-Mabutsane Hon. P. Majaga, MP. Nata-Gweta Hon. J. S. Brooks, MP. Kgalagadi South Hon. C. Greeff, MP. Gaborone Bonnington South Hon. T. Letsholo, MP. Kanye North Hon. T. F. Leuwe, MP. Takatokwane Hon. T. Mangwegape-Healy, MP. Gaborone Central Hon. S. N. Moabi, MP. Tati West Hon. T. Monnakgotla, MP. Kgalagadi North Hon. P. K. Motaosane, MP. Thamaga-Kumakwane Hon. O. Regoeng, MP. Molepolole North Hon. J. L. Thiite, MP. Ghanzi North OPPOSITION (Umbrella for Democratic Change) Hon. D. Saleshando, MP. (Leader of the Opposition) Maun West Hon. A. Lesaso, MP. (Acting Opposition Whip) Shoshong Hon. D. L. Keorapetse, MP. Selebi Phikwe West Hon. Y. Boko, MP Mahalapye East Hon. Dr K. Gobotswang, MP. Sefhare-Ramokgonami Hon. C. K. Hikuama, MP. Ngami Hon. K. K. Kapinga, MP Okavango Hon. G. Kekgonegile, MP. Maun East Hon. P. P. P. Moatlhodi, MP. Tonota Hon. T. B. Lucas, MP. Bobonong Hon. M. G. J. Motsamai, MP. Ghanzi South Hon. K. Nkawana, MP. Selebi Phikwe East Hon. O. Ramogapi, MP. Palapye Hon. Dr N. Tshabang, MP. Nkange Hon. D. Tshere, MP. Mahalapye West Hon. M. I. Moswaane, MP. Francistown West (Botswana Patriotic Front) Hon. T. S. Khama, MP. Serowe West Hon. L. Lesedi, MP. Serowe South Hon. B. Mathoothe, MP. Serowe North (Alliance for Progressives) Hon. W. B. Mmolotsi, MP. Francistown South TABLE OF CONTENTS THE FIRST MEETING OF THE SECOND SESSION OF THE TWELFTH PARLIAMENT MONDAY 07 DECEMBER, 2020

CONTENTS PAGE (S)

SPEAKER’S ANNOUNCEMENT ...... 1

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER...... 1-8

Constitution (Amendment) Bill, 2020 (No. 14 of 2020) Second Reading...... 9-34 Monday 7th December, 2020 QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

Monday 7th December, 2020 (i) when the last schools in Shoshong Constituency were maintained; THE ASSEMBLY met at 2:00 p.m. (ii) whether there are environmental, health and safety (THE SPEAKER in the Chair) standards for boarding schools in Botswana;

P R A Y E R S (iii) who is responsible for enforcing the standards and * * * * what are the inspection cycles for schools; SPEAKER’S ANNOUNCEMENT (iv) what are the responsibilities of inspectors where schools are non-compliant; and MR SPEAKER (MR SKELEMANI): Order! Order! Good afternoon Honourable Members. Before we deal (v) when last Shoshong Senior Secondary Schools with questions, we need to deal with the question of the was inspected; what were the findings and what Speakership. The Deputy Speaker, Honourable Pule, action was taken. will not be with us today and it is possible he will be ASSISTANT MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION in tomorrow, but later he may have to go for medical (MS MAKWINJA): Thank you Mr Speaker. Thank attention. In that regard, we need to appoint from you Honourable Lesaso for the question. amongst yourselves somebody to act as Deputy Speaker during the absence of Honourable Pule. Honourable (i) Mr Speaker, schools are scheduled for cyclic Molale, you are the most senior in the Government side. maintenance every five years. However, it is Do you have a proposal? not always possible to adhere to the cyclic maintenance schedule owing to the backlog, MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND budgetary consideration, and in some instances, RURAL DEVELOPMENT (MR MOLALE): implementation capacity. Mr Speaker, Shoshong We have the proposal of Honourable Pono Pearson Junior Secondary School underwent cyclic Moatlhodi. I thank you Mr Speaker. maintenance in 2014/2015 financial year. MR SPEAKER: Honourable Members, there we have Mahutagane Junior Secondary School was the nomination, in terms of the Standing Orders, that maintained in 2013/2014 and was supposed Honourable Moatlhodi should take the Chair as Acting to undergo maintenance again in 2019/2020. Deputy Speaker of the National Assembly. This was not done due to financial constraints. Kalamare Junior Secondary School was last …Silence… maintained in 2008/2009 financial year and it is Question put and agreed to. overdue for cyclic maintenance. Shoshong Senior Secondary School which was constructed in 1994 MR SPEAKER: Honourable Moatlhodi, you will be had minor maintenance done over the years, taking over as Acting Deputy Speaker starting from today. Do you accept the nomination? including this year where science laboratories, windows, ablutions and the boys’ hostels were MR MOATLHODI: Mr Speaker, I am here to serve the attended to. The school is to yet benefit from full Great Republic of Botswana. cyclic maintenance.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Applause!)… (ii) Mr Speaker, my ministry is working in conjunction MR SPEAKER: Thank you very much Honourable with the Ministry of Health and Wellness and that Moatlhodi. Honourable Members, let us now go to of Local Government and Rural Development on questions. a School Health Programme. This programme is guided by the National School Health Procedures QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER Manual of 1999, which reflect the standards for MAINTENANCE CYCLE FOR SCHOOLS schools. This Manual is currently at an advanced stage of review to incorporate emerging health, MR A. LESASO (SHOSHONG): asked the Minister safety and environmental issues, including of Basic Education to brief this Honourable House on COVID-19. In addition, schools are subject to the maintenance cycle for schools and to state: public health standards.

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(iii) Mr Speaker, health and safety inspections by MS MAKWINJA: Thank you Honourable Lesaso. The Central District Council’s Environmental, Health first question that you asked me is a personal question. and Safety Officers are conducted to ensure Therefore, I would say for me, we appreciate the status compliance with public health standards. Schools of the school and yes, if I happen to have no choice, are also subject to inspections by ministry staff to I will send my child to Shoshong Senior Secondary ensure compliance to the COVID-19 protocols. School. These inspections are to be conducted every six months. Having said that, I think we all know the status of our secondary schools and I am with you Honourable Lesaso (iv) Mr Speaker, where the school is non-compliant, the at Shoshong Senior Secondary School. We appreciate District Environmental, Health and Safety Officers and plan to actually do all that is necessary to ensure have a responsibility to submit recommendations that the school is maintained. So, that is in progress for closure to the Environmental Health Committee Honourable Member. On the closure of the school; I who will consider the recommendation and if in think it is a question that we need to submit, so that we agreement, submit the recommendation for closure can go and look at it. Thank you. of the school to the Ministry of Basic Education. DR GOBOTSWANG: Supplementary. Thank you Mr (v) Mr Speaker, Shoshong Senior Secondary Speaker. Honourable Minister, we are talking about School was last inspected by Central District Fourth Industrial Revolution (4IR). Now if schools are Environmental, Health and Safety Officers in September, 2019. Mr Speaker, you will note that in a state of dilapidation as the one in Shoshong where this was before the onset of COVID-19. The you even admit to that situation, are we going to achieve inspection recommended the closure of the school the 4IR under your Government and leadership? for maintenance and replacement of furniture. Since inspection, maintenance work has been MS MAKWINJA: We will get there and we are carried out in the school to meet the minimum preparing to get to that level by 2024. I can confirm that requirements for the school to operate. These to you. Thank you. repairs include the ablutions and the kitchen among others. WELLS AND BOREHOLES IN KANYE NORTH

Mr Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to MR T. LETSHOLO (KANYE NORTH): asked the encourage the Honourable Member of Parliament for Minister of Land Management, Water and Sanitation Shoshong, Honourable Lesaso to engage parents of Services to apprise this Honourable House on water our children attending in Shoshong Senior Secondary wells and boreholes in the Kanye North Constituency School, to help us to instil a greater sense of responsibility and Kanye that are currently closed because the water in their children, so that they refrain from vandalising is not suitable for human consumption and low yields; school property. I thank you Mr Speaker. and to state:

MR LESASO: Supplementary. Thank you Minister. Mr (i) if the water is suitable for agricultural, industrial and Speaker, I want to ask the Minister a question. Since I construction purposes; and sent you pictures of the current situation after responding to the question that I asked last time, that school has not (ii) what the ministry plan is to use the water from these been maintained as it was supposed to be maintained, wells and boreholes for the socio-economic benefit of especially the boarding side. As a parent, would you the community in relation to (i) above. send your child to Shoshong Senior Secondary School, MINISTER OF LAND MANAGEMENT, WATER to go and sleep in a boarding facility like that one? AND SANITATION SERVICES (MR MZWINILA): Secondly, you are saying that these schools were last Thank you Mr Speaker. In the Kanye North Constituency, inspected in 2013/2014, the other one in 2008/2009, but the Department of Water and Sanitation has no records you are also saying that if inspectors recommend the of water wells (hand dug wells), however, there are 67 closure of the school you can do that, depending on the individual Government boreholes. Of the 67 boreholes, situation of the school. Considering the condition that 10 boreholes are used for village water supply, 20 are Shoshong Senior Secondary School is in, should it still used for groundwater (level and quality) monitoring. In be on operation? addition, there are 35 boreholes drilled at Moshaneng

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wellfield. Four boreholes at Moshaneng wellfield (4/35) (b) Nitrate concentration in some boreholes exceeds are productions boreholes and are being used for village the national limit for drinking by people and water supply, 20/35 boreholes are used for groundwater can pose acute health challenges over time. monitoring (levels and quality) and 11/35 are exploration It is worth noting that at this concentration of borehole. Mr Speaker, 37 individual boreholes in Kanye nitrates, the water complies with national limits North Constituency are decommissioned due to either (BOS463:2011; water quality for irrigation the deteriorating quality and or yields getting depleted/ specification), for irrigating crops and watering all low. livestock.

In Kanye South Constituency, there are 16 water wells (c) The pH value in some boreholes is lower than the (hand dug wells), 33 individual boreholes within recommended operational limit since it has a high Kanye village and 176 boreholes drilled at Kgwakgwe, corrosive capability on pipes and pumps. Ramonnedi, and Taupone area. Mr Speaker, six boreholes within Kanye village are production Mr Speaker, due to the above water quality problems, boreholes for water supply at schools and hospital, the the water in the decommissioned boreholes is therefore, rest are for groundwater levels and quality monitoring, suitable for both agricultural, industrial and construction specifically nitrates. The Kgwakgwe and Ramonnedi purposes. wellfields continue to experience drastic decline in (ii) Mr Speaker, currently the ministry is monitoring borehole production yields resulting in acute water the recoveries from boreholes which have been supply shortages in Kanye demand areas. As a result, decommissioned due to depleted/low yield and no a total of three boreholes within the Kgwakgwe and allocations are made for those boreholes. Ramonnedi wellfields were decommissioned owing to Mr Speaker, the ministry is also leasing and or allowing low yields. Mr Speaker, the 176 boreholes at Kgwakgwe, outright purchase of boreholes to groups/syndicates, Ramonnedi, and Taupone area are utilised as follows; individuals including farmers who applied for the use of boreholes with good yields but poor quality that could (a) 23/176 are production boreholes and are being have otherwise used for village water supply. To date, used for village water supply; 12 Government boreholes have been leased to either (b) 134/176 boreholes are used for groundwater individuals or companies, 14 boreholes have been sold monitoring (levels and quality); outright to individual customers, for the socio-economic benefit of the community in relation to agricultural, (c) There are 15/176 exploration boreholes. industrial and construction purposes. I thank you Mr Speaker. (i) Mr Speaker, as mentioned above, 37 individual boreholes and three in the Kgwakgwe and RENOVATING/UPGRADING OF STUDENT Ramonnedi wellfields were decommissioned due HOSTELS to either the quality deteriorating and or yields MR B. MATHOOTHE (SEROWE NORTH): asked getting depleted/low. Mr Speaker, the boreholes the Minister of Basic Education when he would consider with water quality problems do not comply with renovation/upgrading student hostels at Patikwane and BOS32:2015: drinking water specification which is Bonwatlou Junior Secondary Schools since they are in equivalent to World Health Organisation (WHO)- a bad state. Class-1 Drinking Water Quality Guidelines. The ASSISTANT MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION following has been observed; (MS MAKWINJA): Patikwane Junior Secondary School’s hostels are currently being upgraded to (a) Fluoride is elevated for drinking by people and accommodate an additional 96 students in line with irrigating crops in some boreholes. Mr Speaker, at social distancing protocols. The general condition of the these levels fluoride has chronic effects on human hostels is fair but painting and minor electrical repairs health. The concentrations are compliant with will be covered within the ongoing works. national limits (BOS365:2010; drinking water for livestock and poultry specification) for watering Mr Speaker, my ministry is assisting Bonwatlou Junior ruminant livestock hence can be used for watering Secondary School with the minor maintenance of their cud chewing livestock. dilapidated facilities including hostels. Bonwatlou

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hostels and ablutions were maintained this year at a cost give whenever you are supposed to do this project such of P393 589.00. In addition, two new hostels, one male that you end up postponing it? Are you really going to and one female have been erected accommodating 72 roof our stadium as the people of Francistown? pupils which will be handed to the school before the end of this month. I thank you Mr Speaker. MR BILLY: This stadium is surely going to be roofed Honourable Member. This is what happened, we MR MATHOOTHE: Supplementary. Thank you included roofing in the initial contract but we ended up Mr Speaker. When did the upgrading project that the removing. The handover by the contractor who built Minister is referring to commence? If it has not started, that stadium was not good, but its funds have only when will it commence and when will it be completed? been diverted just twice, including the financial year MS MAKWINJA: I do not have that answer Mr 2020/2021. This year, we diverted the funds because we Speaker. I will find out for the Honourable Member of were looking for funds to rescue artists and performers Parliament (MP). Thank you. from the challenges that they were facing. Thank you.

MR SPEAKER: He is saying, when did it start? HONOURABLE MEMBER: Further supplementary.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… MR SPEAKER: Last supplementary.

MS MAKWINJA: Mr Speaker, I am sorry I do not MR MMOLOTSI: Further supplementary. Minister, it have the actual date when this started, so, I will bring seems like you are not bothered by the fact that funds that date. Thank you very much. were diverted for two financial years, do you not think MR SPEAKER: Fair enough. it is strange that funds were diverted during the financial year 2018/2019 and again in the 2020/2021 financial ROOFING AND ASSOCIATED WORKS AT year? Do you not think this thing is strange? Did you OBED ITANI CHILUME STADIUM not have alternative sources where you could get this MR W. B. MMOLOTSI (FRANCISTOWN money than taking it from Francistown stadium project? SOUTH): asked the Minister of Youth Empowerment, Is this thing not bothering you? Sport and Culture Development: MR BILLY: According to the procedure of governance (i) to explain the delay in putting up the roof and of Botswana, monies are budgeted for a certain project associated works at the Obed Itani Chilume and if a need arise, that money can be used diverted to Stadium in Francistown; and where it is needed at that time. This is what happens, money was not only taken from the Francistown stadium (ii) to state when the project will commence. project. We normally take money; it is possible to take ASSISTANT MINISTER OF YOUTH it from one project to another. That is what happens EMPOWERMENT, SPORT AND CULTURE Honourable Member. DEVELOPMENT (MR BILLY): Good afternoon Mr Speaker. SEXUAL ASSAULT CASES

(i) The answer is, it is true there has been delays DR U. DOW (SPECIALLY ELECTED): asked the in roofing Obert Chilume Stadium. The reason Minister of Defence, Justice and Security to state: being, the funds which were set aside in 2018 (i) the number of cases in 2019 where a nurse was a were used on other projects. During the Financial witness in a rape case, if never, why is that so; year 2020/2021, those funds were used to assist on COVID-19 and we believe we will manage to (ii) the estimated rate of reporting of sexual offences roof Obed Chilume Stadium in the next financial, in Botswana; and 2021/2022. Thank you. (iii) what legal and/or policy and/or structural reforms MR MMOLOTSI: Supplementary. Minister, do you he considers necessary to promote reporting of know the year in which this project was talked about? sexual assault cases and success in prosecution of Can you tell us why you always have some excuses to same.

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MINISTER OF DEFENCE, JUSTICE AND in accordance with Practice Directive No. 9 of SECURITY (MR MMUSI): Thank you Mr Speaker. 2020. These courts are at Molepolole, Gaborone, Francistown Maun, Palapye and Selebi Phikwe, (i) There is only one place in 2019 in which a nurse while an additional court will be established in who had received a preliminary report from a rape Mogoditshane during the financial year 2021. victim was called as a state witness. It is worth The Chief Justice has further directed that the noting that only medical officer’s practitioners campaign against GBV cases should commence have authority to compile report, hence nurses are at the Molepolole Magistrate Court which has rarely called to give evidence in Court. the highest number of such cases. Mr Speaker, all these initiatives combined together with sustained (ii) Mr Speaker, between 2017 and 2019, 2 194 rape public education, will go a long way in promoting cases were reported on average annually, which the reporting of sexual violence cases. I thank you translates to an average of 173 case per month. Mr Speaker. For the same period, 850 defilement cases were reported annually, translating to an average of DR DOW: Supplementary. Thank Mr Speaker. Through 70 cases per month. Mr Speaker, my ministry you Mr Speaker, first of all I thank you very much for proposes to establish an Inter-Sectorial Sexual that answer, but the question is, do you not think that it Offender’s Council through the sexual offender’s would actually go a long way for the Justice Ministry register Bill 2020. The Inter-Sectorial Offender’s to consider always calling nurses as witnesses, not as Council will be responsible for developing a expert witnesses, but a witness not different from the National Policy Framework, as well as ensuring mother or a herdsman who saw the child, but as regular the Development of Integrated and Multi-Sectorial witnesses who actually have seen the child or the rape Policy interventions targeting sexual violence. victim and can attest with witness, give evidence in Through this framework, Government will ensure respect of that? Do you not think it is important, not as a comprehensive and evidence based response to expert witnesses but as regular witnesses? Thank you. address sexual offending. MR MMUSI: Yes Honourable Member, I do agree with you, and we are looking at that matter, we will (iii) Mr Speaker, this notwithstanding, my ministry put together a legal instrument to ensure that happens. through the Botswana Police Service (BPS) and I thank you. Administration of Justice (AOJ) are working on the establishment of a child-friendly and Gender GENETICALLY MODIFIED FOOD Based Violence (GBV) victim friendly courts in MR O. REGOENG (MOLEPOLOLE NORTH): police stations. This initiative aims to develop and asked the Minister of Agricultural Development and strengthen the capacity of the Botswana Police Food Security to state: Service and the courts to effectively respond to sexual offences. The expected outcome is a safe (i) if the ministry is amenable to allowing interested and supporting environment for victims of sexual Batswana to venture into unconventional offences. The Botswana Police Service is also production of genetically modified food; and engaged in an ongoing capacitation and training of (ii) if he can confirm or deny the presence of officers to enhance their ability and professionalism genetically modified products/food in local stores. in handling sexual assault cases. A GBV toll- free number 0800 600 144 was introduced in …Silence… April 2020. Furthermore, the Government of MR SPEAKER: Are you taking it on their behalf? Botswana intends to establish a Gender and Child Protection Unit by the first of April 2021. The HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Inaudible)… AOJ has also established specialised courts at MR SPEAKER: …(Laughter!)… Mokwena! Your the level of Chief Magistrates to treat all GBV colleagues are not here, let us see if they are going to cases as urgent matters that must be expedited come.

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CROSS-BORDER THEFT since 2018. The Botswana Government is not assisting these farmers to get them. Since they can never return, DR N. TSHABANG (NKANGE): asked the Minister Batswana have not received the compensation that of Defence, Justice and Security whether: they should be given. That is why I am asking, when (i) the ministry is aware that cross-border theft has are you going to assist them because they are waiting increased; empty-handed and cattle are reproducing on the other side? They are at a great loss because of the delay of (ii) he is aware that 75 cattle and 30 goats belonging to the Botswana Government. How are you going to assist Maitengwe village were stolen during 2017/2018; them? Turnaround time, when are you going to assist them? Thank you. (iii) he intends to increase security patrols; and MR MMUSI: Thank you Mr Speaker. Honourable (iv) how he intends to assist victims of such cross- Member, our duty is to find cattle, open the case, identify border crimes. them and hand it over to the relevant ministry to handle the returning process. Ours is just to identify them, then MINISTER OF DEFENCE, JUSTICE AND the relevant ministry should handle returning them to SECURITY (MR MMUSI): Thank you Mr Speaker. their owners.

(i) Mr Speaker, I confirm that indeed there is cross- DR TSHABANG: Supplementary. Honourable border crime in the Maitengwe area. Between Minister, are you saying you have handed that process 2017 and 2020, the Botswana Police Service to Veterinary? If you have handed it to them, when did handled a total of 11 cross-border cases. Seven you do it, so that we follow it, and see where to start? cases involved theft of stock, one theft of motor Thank you Mr Speaker. vehicles, two break-ins and one common theft. MR MMUSI: I will give you the exact dates and their (ii) During the 2017/2018 period, 37 cattle, seven progress tomorrow. I thank you Mr Speaker. goats and four donkeys were reported stolen and OLD AGE PENSION AND IPELEGENG smuggled into Zimbabwe. During the same period, ALLOWANCES 43 more cattle bearing Botswana brand marks were recovered in Cholocho area, Zimbabwe. MR D. TSHERE (MAHALAPYE WEST): asked the Although they were not initially reported stolen Minister Local Government and Rural Development in Botswana, they were ultimately identified by when he is considering an annual increment of Old Age Batswana and returned to the owners. Pension and Ipelegeng allowances by P100.00 as it has been the norm. The Botswana Police Service has since augmented patrols along the border to deter cross-border crime. ASSISTANT MINISTER OF LOCAL The impending completion of the Maitengwe Police GOVERNMENT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT Station will assist in enhancement of patrols along the (MR AUTLWETSE): Thank you Mr Speaker. Mr border. Farmers’ committees and community clusters in Speaker, as the Honourable said, from 1996 when the the area also play a significant role in preventing cross- programme commenced, there had been increment of border crime. this Old Age Pension. The last increment was in 2017 when it increased to P430.00. In 2019, there was another Mr Speaker, regarding the assistance rendered to victims, increment to the current amount of P530.00. In 2017, once a report is received, the Botswana Police Service Ipelegeng allowance was increased by 5 per cent from carries out the investigations until the case is finalised. P540.00 to P567.00 for labourers and from P620.00 to Where issues of compensation arise, they are handled P651.00 for supervisors. by the relevant authorities. I thank you Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, due to unavailability of funds, it was DR TSHABANG: Supplementary. Thank you Mr not possible to increase allowances for these two Speaker. Honourable Minister, in terms of assistance, programmes thus year. The expectation is that when cattle and goats were discovered at Zimbabwe, the case the financial status improves, there will be a review. was litigated and judgement delivered that they should Currently it is difficult to state when the review will be be returned to Batswana but they have not been returned and if there will be increment. Thank you.

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MR TSHERE: Thank you very much Honourable (ii) However, plans are underway to maintain the fence Speaker. Thank you very much Minister for that as our international boundary with Namibia has response. What is the difference between your office been reaffirmed in 2017 by a joint technical team now and the time when former Minister Tshireletso of experts from both countries and a boundary was responsible for it? When employees received treaty finalised and signed by the Heads of States increment, she informed Parliament that I am going in February 2018. Article 5 of the Boundary Treaty to increase Old Age Pension, and she was an Assistant stipulates the maintenance of boundary fences and like you. Civil servants received two increments while beacons and any other boundary structures on Ipelegeng workers and Old Age Pensioners did not get equal cost sharing basis. any increment whereas the amount is close to nothing, I wonder why this is failing? Right now, the allowance (iii) Mr Speaker, for the treaty to be binding on both could be close to P1, 500.00. Thank you Mr Speaker. parties, there is a need to diplomatically exchange instruments of ratification which has not yet been MR AUTLWETSE: Mr Speaker, I cannot say there is completed. The ratification process is expected to anything I differ with Honourable Tshireletso in just as be concluded before the end of this financial year. much that I cannot compare you with the former Member of Parliament who was occupying that seat. The truth (iv) While awaiting the ratification process, my is, the current challenges which I just described are not ministry is engaging our Namibian counterparts the same as the ones experienced during Honourable with regard to the maintenance of the boundary Tshireletso`s tenure. You are even aware Honourable fence in line with the provisions of the Treaty. Member, budget was passed by you and you saw that it I thank you Mr Speaker. is not the same as when your predecessor was still here. You cannot compare those periods. You are blaming me, MR MOTSAMAI: Supplementary. I hear you Minister you are removing yourself from the equation, I could Mzwinila. I hear in your response that there are be doing what Honourable Tshireletso was doing. My discussions with our neighbouring country. The question belief is that we are together in this. Thank you Mr therefore is, are you aware that peoples` livestock has Speaker. and is still disappearing as it is stolen by people from our neighbouring country? REHABILITATION OF GHANZI/NAMIBIA BOUNDARY FENCE The second question; since livestock has gone missing, are you in a state that when you start to construct that MR M. G. J. MOTSAMAI (GHANZI SOUTH): border fence, are you now going to compensate the asked the Minister of Land Management, Water and people of Gantsi for the long time you have taken to Sanitation Services if there are any plans from the refurbish that fence, when their livestock was perishing ministry to maintain/rehabilitate the boundary fence either because it was stolen or they went through the between Ghanzi District and Namibia to reduce cross- fence? border crime, in particular stock theft. MR MZWINILA: Thank you Mr Speaker. On the first MINISTER OF LAND MANAGEMENT, WATER question on whether we understand that the delay of AND SANITATION SERVICES (MR MZWINILA): completing our agreement to refurbish the border fence Mr Speaker, has consequences; yes, we understand the consequences. In our discussions with our neighbours, we should agree (i) The boundary fence between Ghanzi District on some things and do them accordingly, this is called and Namibia is approximately 230 kilometres in ratification. We should do things according to that length and was solely constructed by the South procedure. If there is any delay, I can agree, but it was West Africa (Namibia) Veterinary Services in the not caused by us as the Government of Botswana. 1960’s and has been maintained to date by the Government of Namibia as there was no bilateral The second question on whether we are going to pay agreement or boundary treaty between the two compensation for the livestock that crosses into Namibia; states. The fence is generally in fair condition, but the answer is that we are not going to compensate you. sporadically suffers disrepair, especially around Livestock owners should take responsibility of their the Grootelaagte area. livestock. The Honourable Member also knows that

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even if there was a fence, there is a possibility that those (iii) The counselling of the unemployed persons is a who steal livestock can cut the fence and steal them one continuous process which is undertaken by the way or another. Livestock safety is not guaranteed by employment bureau in my ministry. As a result the availability of the fence, there are other things that of the need to adhere to the COVID-19 protocols, are needed for livestock to be safe. Thank you. the ministry is taking advantage of social media platforms to provide counselling. This has COUNSELLING EXERCISE FOR ALL increased the coverage since the unemployed UNEMPLOYED YOUTH persons in the whole country are able to participate MR P. P. P. MOATLHODI (TONOTA): asked the in virtual workshops. The content is later shared in Minister of Employment, Labour Productivity and the ministry’s Facebook page. Skills Development whether during the 2019 General (iv) Mr Speaker, the counselling will be rolled out to Elections, the Botswana Democratic Party (BDP) promised to arrange counselling for all unemployed other regions in the last quarter of 2020/2021 in youth throughout the country; and if so, to state: order to make it more inclusive. More workshops have been planned in the current and next financial (i) how many have indeed been counselled per region; year. In view of the shortage of manpower who are entrusted with this task, my ministry is (ii) what were their ages (range); working in collaboration with Ministry of Youth (iii) how long the project took; and Empowerment, Sport and Culture Development, other Government ministries, Non-Governmental (iv) if this was done, when next will the same exercise Organisations (NGOs), private sector, Business be done. Botswana and volunteers to carry out these MINISTER OF EMPLOYMENT, LABOUR functions and to ensure a holistic approach. PRODUCTIVITY AND SKILLS DEVELOPMENT Furthermore, the ministry is working with Human (MR BALOPI): Thank you Mr Speaker, good Resource Development Council (HRDC) on the afternoon. Mr Speaker, development of a Labour Market Information System (i) Government has undertaken to provide counselling which will capture labour market information, including to unemployed persons. This undertaking was not unemployed graduates for the purpose of assisting them made during the 2019 General Elections. The to find employment and the counselling component is counselling of unemployed persons commenced incorporated in the statement of the user requirements. as far back as the 10th of July 2018. The system will enhance outreach to all young persons and allow them to link up with professional counsellors My ministry has a database of jobseekers who register at online. Thank you Mr Speaker. labour offices throughout the country and this includes some unemployed youth. This database shows that a DR GOBOTSWANG: Supplementary. Honourable total number of 138, 470 people registered as jobseekers Minister, absolutely you do not know what you are from October 2016 to date, of which 70 per cent or talking about. Counselling is a very… 96, 929 are youth. Of the registered youth jobseekers MR SPEAKER: That is not the question. Mr Speaker, 1, 530 were counselled in Gaborone and surrounding areas. Topics covered include among DR GOBOTSWANG: …specialised area my friend, it others Curriculum Vitae (CV) writing, interview skills, is different from career guidance. Can you explain how application letters, productivity and smart working many trained professional counsellors you have for this ethics, youth empowerment skills, personal image, exercise to do proper counselling? When you talk about job search strategies, people skills, money skills, career guidance, you are talking about career guidance, entrepreneurship skills and financing the power of but counselling my friend, you must be very serious social media in job search. about it. I thank you.

(ii) The age ranges of those who participated in the MR BALOPI: Mr Speaker, I do not know why Member counselling workshop is 15 years to 35 years and of Parliament for Sefhare-Ramokgonami did not ask beyond in some instances, depending on the gap his question regarding the number of counsellors. Here identified. is the difference Mr Speaker, when you say career

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guidance and counselling, even right as we are here Mr dispose of this. The Clerks will make sure that the Speaker, you cannot say counselling means this exact Honourable Minister has the copy of the Hansard so that thing, as opposed to when you are looking for a job. we do not delay this matter anymore. There could be counselling that will aid you eventually to be able to be well structured in your disposition to MR KEKGONEGILE: On a point of procedure. I be able to understand what it takes and how you can be thank you Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, I stand to be guided. able to access the labour market. At the same time, when I have heard on several occassions that we should know there is something or even something that maybe you that what we say here goes to the public and it is captured need help with, you can be directed specifically because on record; and it should be appropriate and correct to be even those counsellors that he is generalising, they are captured on record. not just standard. They are people who could counsel On the 17th of November when we were talking about you on certain areas, but this particular time, you are what Honourable Rakgare had done, he mentioned talking about those who are seeking for jobs. You can that Honourable Dikoloti was the one who gave him actually even guide them Mr Speaker, so that if they are permission to travel further to Francistown. On the 18th still looking for jobs, what are the things they can be of November, Honourable Dikoloti said he did not give taught or shown, such that they can be able to redirect Honourable Rakgare that permission. I was hoping we their thinking as to whether they need jobs or they can could set the record straight Mr Speaker. One of them become entrepreneurs. I thank you Mr Speaker. was not telling the truth, so we should get to know who amongst them was telling the truth because we need to MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! They are arguing about set the record straight in the Hansard Mr Speaker. They counselling, that is their issue. Honourable Members, are Honourable Minsters and they are both here. If he we have run out of time, questions Number five, eight gave Honourable Rakgare permission to travel, let it be and 12, we will have to move all of them to tomorrow. clear so that we know for sure that he did that, the record should be correct in the Hansard. Thank you. LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION (MR MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! Honourable Members, SALESHANDO): Procedure. On Friday the 4th of we cannot deal with the record of the House in that December, the Speaker made a ruling on the statement manner. that was said by Honourable Morwaeng, which he tried to say he did not say, that he will look at the Hansard and HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… bring a verdict to this House. The one who was there at that time was the Deputy Speaker who it seems like he MR SPEAKER: Since I do not have any record of what will not be here any time soon. I wanted to know if you was said and what is on the Hansard, I do not intend to have managed to look at it. If you did not find it, I have it spend time on those arguments because if we want any here so that we can conclude this issue, and Honourable clarity we can go to the Hansard and the matter can then, Morwaeng can withdraw his statement because it is in if need be, be dealt with at that stage. the Hansard. MR KEKGONEGILE: Further procedure Mr Speaker. MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! Honourable Members, I have not seen what you are referring to Honourable MR SPEAKER: No, I am done with that. Saleshando. If the Minister who is here has seen it, it would be an easy way out, if he can react to the records BILL if he has seen it. Have you seen the record Honourable CONSTITUTION (AMENDMENT) BILL, Minister? 2020 (NO. 14 OF 2020) MINISTER FOR PRESIDENTIAL Second Reading AFFAIRS, GOVERNANCE AND PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION (MR MORWAENG): No sir, I MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! This Bill has been do not know what the Honourable Member is talking referred to Ntlo ya Dikgosi. about, I did not see anything. I am waiting for the Deputy Speaker. MINISTER FOR PRESIDENTIAL AFFAIRS, GOVERNANCEAND PUBLICADMINISTRATION MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! Then we will deal with (MR MORWAENG): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that it tomorrow. I will look at the records and hopefully the Constitution (Amendment) Bill, 2020 (No. 14 of Deputy Speaker should be in tomorrow and we can 2020) be read a second time.

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Honourable Members will recall that this Bill was that he or she stood loose the parliamentary seat. presented for First Reading in this House on the 18th of August 2020. It then stood referred to Ntlo ya Dikgosi Mr Speaker, I also wish to bring to the attention of this in accordance with Section 88 (2) of the Constitution. Honourable House that pursuant to the adoption of the Motion by Parliament, the Law Reform Committee Section 88 (2) prohibits Parliament from proceeding was commissioned by Parliament to consult Batswana upon any Bill which alters any of the provisions of the on the Motion on floor crossing. The consultation was Constitution unless a copy of the Bill is referred to Ntlo carried out in 32 centres where Batswana were clear that ya Dikgosi after it has been introduced in the National the Motion should be endorsed. Assembly. Mr Speaker, in the interest of implementing the Mr Speaker, Section 88 (2) of the Constitution has been Motion and above all the peoples’ wishes, Government complied with. I presented the Bill to the Fourth Meeting approved the amendment of the Constitution in 2010. of the Fourth Ntlo ya Dikgosi on the 26th October 2020. The approval led to the drafting of the Constitution Members of Ntlo ya Dikgosi unanimously resolved to (Amendment) Bill, (No. 12 of 2011) which was support… published on the 3rd of August 2011. However, the Bill was withdrawn from Parliament but it has since been HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)... revised through Constitution (Amendment) Bill, 2020 MR MORWAENG: I did not go to schools of the (No. 14 of 2020), that is the current Bill. affluent (bomakgorwane) Dumelang. Members of Ntlo Mr Speaker, the object of the Bill is to amend the ya Dikgosi resolved to support the Bill as is and endorsed Constitution in order to safeguard the peoples’ interests, the amendment of Section 68 of the Constitution. This nurture our democracy and our cultural principles of endorsement has been accepted by Government hence my presentation of this Bill. I am informed that Ntlo ya consensus reckoning. To this end, the Bill proposes to Dikgosi resolutions have been shared with Honourable cause a vacancy; Members. (a) in the case of an elected Member if he or she Mr Speaker, it is more than 22 years since Parliament was elected to the Assembly as a candidate for adopted a Motion titled, “that this Honourable House a political party, the Member resigns from the resolves that any elected Member of Parliament or any political party; or elected Councillor who wishes to cross the floor from one party to the other should forgo his or her seat and (b) if a Member was elected to the Assembly as a seek a fresh mandate from the electorates.” The Motion candidate who is not a Member of a political party, was tabled during the Seventh Parliament by the then a Member becomes a Member of the political Member of Parliament for Thamaga, Honourable Gladys party. Kokorwe. The Motion called for the amendment of the provisions of the Constitution and Local Government (c) however, an elected Member who immediately legislation dealing with vacancies in Parliament and before the commencement of the Act has effected Council seats. The Motion was adopted in August 1988. a change shall be deemed to have been a candidate for election as a Member and elected to the Essentially, the Motion sought to cause a vacancy if Assembly in his or her status as so changed. a Member of Parliament or Councillor who has been elected as a Member of a political party joins another HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)... political party or becomes an independent member. MR MORWAENG: Yeah, and Moswaane. The Motion was prompted by the realisation that, save for independent candidates, our electoral laws are such Mr Speaker, it is my hope that presentation of this Bill that a candidate who during election chooses voting will be followed by a similar one from the Ministry of colours and symbols of a political party is deemed to Local Government and Rural Development and this is be a candidate for that political party. If upon election the Local Government (Amendment) Bill, with a view to Parliament as a Member, he or she resigns from the to implementing the aspect of Honourable Kokorwe’s party under whose banner he or she stood for elections, Motion relating to Councillors.

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As I move towards conclusion Mr Speaker, let me HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… emphasise that we are a democracy and we want to see the peoples` wishes and aspirations respected. We want MR KABLAY: We agreed at the Advisory Committee to remain a united nation and our values are key to our sir. development strategy. MR SPEAKER: Honourable Kablay, I remember Mr Speaker, this concludes my presentation. I now move certainly that we …(Inaudible)… the subject. I that the Constitution (Amendment) Bill, 2020 (No. 14 remember my position at that meeting that because this of 2020) be read a second time. I thank you Mr Speaker. is a Constitution and I dislike anybody amending the Constitution, unless they can give a very good reason. MR SPEAKER: Thank you Honourable Minister. The I was one of those …(Inaudible)… very reluctant to report from Ntlo ya Dikgosi was given to Honourable harness or to pull back on a free debate on this matter. Members. I am not sure if you still have it, but it was I know the 10 minutes Honourable Kablay, was given. You are therefore entitled and free to refer to mentioned. We did not put it back to the Assembly for it in your deliberations…(Inaudible)… before you. them to endorse, maybe it was by fault. I just do not Honourable Autlwetse, do you have it? like the idea of reducing time when we talk about the Constitution. The only law that I know will help me. ASSISTANT MINISTER OF LOCAL That is where the 20 minutes come from. GOVERNMENT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT (MR AUTLWETSE): Thank you Mr Speaker. Mr HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… Speaker, I beg to present the Local Government (Amendment) Bill, 2020 (No. 24… MR SPEAKER: He is not being oppressed.

MR SPEAKER: Hang on Honourable Minister! MR HIKUAMA: Thank you Mr Speaker. I was still saying that I rise to oppose the Bill tabled by Honourable …Silence… Minister Kabo Morwaeng. Firstly, there is no urgency in tabling a Bill like this one because he is the one who MR SPEAKER: Honourable Autlwetse, I am sure you said that a comprehensive review of the Constitution of will be able to present your Bill later, but not today in Botswana will start in January. I believe that is the best terms of the Order Paper. I thought you were standing time to review our Constitution holistically to see which on …(Interruptions)… the report from Ntlo ya Dikgosi sections and clauses have been overtaken by events. As is like. for the Bill that is presented today even though next Honourable Members, the floor is open for debate. I year we are going to have a comprehensive review have asked for copies of the report from Ntlo ya Dikgosi of the Constitution, they do not correspond. We are to be availed. also wasting the time that we could be using to debate serious and important issues. With that reason, I am HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… compelled not to support this Bill, unless the Minister is MR SPEAKER: They have long been given to you, so trying to tell us that what he told us last time is not true, you are on your own if you left it at Tonota. that we are going to review the Constitution. If indeed it is going to be reviewed, there is no point to approach HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… this Constitution with piecemeal like he wants us to do today. MR SPEAKER: …(Inaudible)… …(Laughter!)… The floor is open Honourable Members. The other thing Mr Speaker, there are some offensive clauses before the eyes of the nation, that have to be MR HIKUAMA (NGAMI): Thank you Mr Speaker. I amended, not floor crossing. There are some clauses rise to oppose the Bill presented by Minister Morwaeng. in the Constitution of Botswana which have triggered I do not support it due to the following reasons. the situation where we have major ethnic groups and MR KABLAY: Point of procedure. Mr Speaker, I minority ethnic group in Botswana. Sections which believe that we agreed at the Advisory Committee that do not recognise some ethnic groups which are there, every member will debate for 10 minutes, but here it is which make up the nation of Botswana and I believe that written 20 minutes. they are more important than floor crossing. This issue

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of ethnic groups is bound on the rights of the people. am saying, BDP supporters saw my potential. You went These are clauses that affect human rights and their and campaigned for me there looking at my potential. worth. These clauses are important, not this provision of Now Mr Speaker, we do not need to change these things people who are scared that some people are considering through the Constitution or a Motion such as this one. to leave them. People are now urgently proposing a Bill We are coming up with this kind of law which forces which stops people and that is absolute oppression, we people and a system where parties campaign. These are violating the rights of people who have been voted, parties are the ones to go to people, incurring costs to people who campaigned with their names. campaign and choose their candidates.

HIS HONOUR THE VICE PRESIDENT (MR If I campaign or Honourable Majaga campaigns using TSOGWANE): Clarification. No Honourable, we hear his resources, his family resources and you say when your reasons for not supporting this Bill. Honourable, I he feels that there is a tyrannous law in BDP which heard you talking about the clause regarding the eight no longer allows people to air their views… That is, ethnic groups, comparing it with this one and saying that people are pressed in a corner and told not to comment we should be reviewing it compared to this one. Does about the bad practices which are being done, or to the Honourable Member realise that there are some complain about anything. When one complains, they are entrenched clauses in the Constitution which cannot be threatened with expulsion. That is an abusive Motion decided by simply debating like we are doing with this which is not necessary. We should not make laws in that one and can only be decided by referendum? manner.

MR HIKUAMA: Yes sir. What I am saying is that there DR DOW: Clarification. Thank you very much is no urgency, we do not have to rush to approach this Honourable Member for yielding. My question is, do issue today. Everything that is required in order to review you not believe that you have been voted as UDC and the Constitution, we have to present and discuss them also given your value? People were not voting for you because that is our plan. I believe that when Botswana only, they were voting the party. Now if you leave them before 2024, do you not think you should consult them Democratic Party (BDP) contested for the 2019 General first and ask them to vote you as an individual or under Elections, it stressed the point that the Constitution a new party? of Botswana is going to be reviewed. I believe that it was one of the points that challenged them to have a MR HIKUAMA: We are saying the same thing. I was pledge like that during elections. As the Umbrella for voted as an individual and also as a member of UDC. Democratic Change (UDC), we have always said that Those two things are related. I was voted as UDC member and also as Caterpillar Kainangura Hikuama. the Constitution of Botswana has to be reviewed. We There are people who voted me because of my name, are just about to review the Constitution and you are my worth who are not UDC supporters and they were bringing one clause, leaving out cruel laws which many. Now what we are saying is, if you are saying require amending, it makes us doubt the credibility of parties must decide, let them campaign without names what you explained here Honourable Minister. It means and faces of people. If they can do that, they would you are trying to deceive people into believing that you be sure that BDP was voted without an individual are doing something whereas you are not. assuming that he or she was the one voted for. That is why in our elections, when you determine a candidate, Mr Speaker, when one campaigns, they use a symbol you look at the qualities of an individual, if he or she of a party. Campaigning with personal resources to be will be acceptable before people. You do not just come voted by people. For example, I was voted by many BDP with anyone or a donkey and clothe it in red and say supporters. I was not voted because I am from Umbrella it will be voted, no, that is not how it is. You look at for Democratic Change (UDC) only. I was voted by character and the quality of the candidate, then he or she goes to campaign. Now we must consider these things BDP supporters who saw that I was more capable than when we come up with this Motion so that we do not the one I was competing against. They saw me as I was abuse people’s rights. living among them. I did not fall from heaven. I have been living with them, working with them, representing MR KEORAPETSE: Clarification. Honourable them in different aspects of their lives. Therefore, Your Member, I hear you. Another thing is, there is no public Honour, you must know that a person is proved from funding of political parties. When you go for elections, a young age as he lives amongst people. That is why I it costs councillor and Parliament candidates heavily

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together with their families. When one is abused in a You do not fund them to campaign. You do not assist party but can be welcomed by another, they are told not them, they fend for themselves. Therefore, you should to leave because if they do that they will lose their seat. not make things harder for them going forward. What I Does that mean you should go back and use your family am saying is that… resources and invest them in politics? MR MATHOOTHE: Elucidation. Honourable MR HIKUAMA: That is what I am saying. This is Member, you are on point. Another thing that you must an abusive system which makes the democracy of mention is declaration of election expenses. They do not Botswana to even be more expensive. We should not go to the party, they are borne by the one who ran for make our democracy and elections expensive. elections. Please touch on that one.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… MR HIKUAMA: Thank you. That is what we are saying. When declaration of expenses by an individual MINISTER FOR PRESIDENTIAL AFFAIRS, is made the party is not asked to declare. The candidate GOVERNANCEAND PUBLICADMINISTRATION is the one who is asked how much the have spent and (MR MORWAENG): Clarification. I am like you and they pay the amount that is required. If you want us to Gilson. My question is, if a party is like yours… come to party level, let us change the Electoral Act into MR RAMOGAPI: Point of order Mr Speaker. a law where parties campaign. We have to campaign Honourable Morwaeng is wrong. He is saying he looks for the party, not a candidate. That is when the law will like Honourable Saleshando and Gilson. This Gilson is make sense. Honourable Saleshando’s father. That is totally wrong. MR HIKUAMA: …where parties campaign. We have Please try to behave that side. to campaign for the party, not a candidate. That is when MR SPEAKER: I agree with you on good behaviour. this law will be suitable. However, what he and Honourable Saleshando are DR DOW: On a point of elucidation. Thank you Mr saying is their business. Speaker. I want to elucidate that it is not true that a party MR MORWAENG: The question is, if you get a does not make a report for standing; go and read the sponsor as UDC for example, and you go and use it at law again. You report as an individual and the party also your constituency, do you not believe that those funds… does the same. Thank you. If you were campaigning alone as Caterpillar, you could MR HIKUAMA: No, maybe that is the law from courts not have been sponsored by that man because he was and Judges but this one concerns us as politicians. sponsoring the party. You benefited, that is an example, I never filled any form which required me to declare if you get sponsored. the expenses that a party has. I only filled forms which MR HIKUAMA: You are right, and your example to required me to declare as an individual. Maybe that is me is irrelevant, because it does not apply. Maybe it the procedure in other courts which I do not go to. applies to you who were sponsored by people who we What I was also pointing out Mr Speaker is that… heard you calling borampeetšhane (people who wear sandals) and after elections you gathered and thanked MR MOATLHODI: On a point of clarification. Thank them. We did not have people who did that, who we you Honourable Speaker. Thank you Honourable. were supposed to appreciate. What I am saying is, we In short, in India, the oldest democracy in the world, should not make elections expensive for people because and England, where we requested for democracy does they campaign using their resources. Again, it would not have this kind of procedure which we are trying to have been by stroke of luck if you get a sponsor. It is follow. How do you reconcile these two? not guaranteed. It is not given that there are financial sponsors. Since you are guaranteed, you go around MR HIKUAMA: Really, there is nothing to reconcile threatening companies operating in Botswana to support here. We see fearful people who are not sure about you because you are in power. It is not a given for all of tomorrow because they are oppressive. It is a panic us. What I have gathered from your fellow members is button. They are running to the Constitution so that they that you are biased. You only assist those you like, those can use it to oppress people. However, democracy is you do not like, even to launch them you do not do that. not supposed to oppress people through the law but to

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manage itself through the ideas of people and it has to MR LEUWE (TAKATOKWANE): Thank you Mr impress them. So do not use the law to force a person Speaker, good afternoon. to live with you if they do not like you because that is wrong. It will land us in a situation where we do not have Sir, I am standing to support this Motion and to confidently address the interests of Batswana. Batswana good governance where people do not have freedom. are interested in that. We know that when going So we should not use law to curtail democracy. Let for elections, there are people who are independent democracy flourish in our country, rather than to come candidates. Batswana vote for you because of your party with oppressive laws which we do not know where they affiliation, you are free to join another party and that come from, where we do not understand what compels really hurts them. That is why I want to conclude by people to bring these kinds of laws. mentioning how Batswana are feeling out there. I came As you promised to review the Constitution next year, here as their only representative and if it was possible, we should look at the Constitution holistically and deal many of them could be here to highlight that this Bill with oppressive laws like this one. We have to come has been overtaken by events… up with a proportional representation if our intention MR MOATLHODI: On a point of clarification. Thank is to have loyal people in our parties. Both developed you Mr Speaker. Honourable Leuwe, whom I love with countries and those carrying on with democracy are all my heart, my church mate, Kopano’s father, when coming up with improved laws not conservative ones. you say it is all about the ideas of people, it is usually These things show that while other countries are about referendum. Has there ever been any referendum developing, we on the other hand are regressing. The or survey on this particular issue. If so, when and what question is, how are we going to maintain our status are the results? as a shining example of democracy if we regress when MR LEUWE: Thank you Honourable Nkamo’s father. others are moving forward? We should not do that. I am still discussing my points and in the process, if People are going to laugh at us, nations and our children you can go and do that referendum at Takatokwane, I are going to spit on our graveyards if we can approve believe looking at what residents of Takatokwane are this kind of law, an insignificant law because people are saying, 95 per cent of them are going to support this law. afraid of Honourable Majaga and Honourable Reatile. It was not done nationally, but as I move around, I have We are not supposed to make a law for the benefit of realised that this thing is really hurting them because an individual, it is supposed to be for procedure and to they voted you because of your party affiliation but improve procedure, peace and tranquillity. choose to join another one in the process. That is why I am saying it depends on how people are feeling out HONOURABLE MEMBER: And Honourable there. Moreover… Lelatisitswe. ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR PRESIDENTIAL MR HIKUAMA: They are saying Honourable AFFAIRS, GOVERNANCE AND PUBLIC Lelatisitswe is also threatening. He is against our leader, ADMINISTRATION (MR MTHIMKHULU): Clarification. I want you to also explain… so we have to block him through the law. No Honourable Members, that is never going to help us to move forward MR SPEAKER: No, if you want order in this House, as a country. you do not just stand up. Honourable Mthimkhulu!

Minister, you can also see that coming up with this kind MR MTHIMKHULU: Honourable Moatlhodi must of law is going to make people to laugh at you, because explain that some sections of the Constitution do not you promised Batswana that we are going to review require referendum for them to be amended. So he was the Constitution of Botswana. So what compels you to talking about the feelings of his constituents. He does rush things? Tell us because we did not get what you not need a referendum to determine that. are concerned about when you presented your Bill, such that you come up with this section because this country Number two; you heard Minister Morwaeng earlier on has been independent for a long time, people have been saying that research was carried out in the past years. going out and coming back. What is threatening you? Out of 32 centres, Batswana unanimously approved that this law is outdated and has to be amended. He is With those words, I do not support your Motion talking about that and that is what they are interested in Honourable Minister. Thank you. Honourable Leuwe.

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MR LEUWE: Thank you Honourable Mthimkhulu. MR LEUWE: People do not know if the party assisted I already responded to Honourable Moatlhodi that I you or not, all they know is you were voted under that will keep repeating these words because it is about party. Whether you were financially assisted or not is how people are feeling out there. I never said national neither here nor there, it is not their fault. All they know referendum was done. I come here with what people are is that they voted for you under that political party, that saying out there. is why when you cross the floor, they are disheartened and wish that there could be re-election. If you can note, Another shocking thing is, why are we afraid that they in most cases if a Member crosses the floor, there will voted for Honourable Leuwe because if I can go back be a petition showing that people are complaining about there, they are still going to vote for me again. that decision. In most cases, decisions are taken without MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS even consulting the people who voted for you, they will AND COOPERATION (DR KWAPE): On a point of hear on the radio that you have crossed the floor to elucidation. Thank you Honourable for giving me the Botswana Democratic Party… opportunity to respond. Like you said, Nkamo’s father HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification. whom I love so much, he was a member of Domkrag and he left. If at all people vote for you because of your MR LEUWE: …without telling them where you are party affiliation, why not go back to them when you quit crossing to. so that they can vote again since they voted for you and you are no longer a member of that party? HONOURABLE MEMBER: Elucidation.

MR LEUWE: Thank you. Let me point out that, if MR KEORAPETSE: Clarification. Thank you people voted me, I must not be afraid of re-elections Honourable Leuwe. First let me ask, what is the recourse because the same people who voted are still going to the voters have towards a Member of Parliament; you do that again. That is why I am saying, people vote for are not departing from the Botswana Democratic Party you because of your party affiliation. This is also what but rather from your mandate within the five years? is greatly hurting Batswana because they voted you for What is the recourse of voters in your constituency? that reason but in future you then defect to another That is the first question. party. Second one; if as Honourable Leuwe, voters have voted for you and you depart from the mandate they sent you I support this Amendment… to represent them whilst still in Botswana Democratic HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification. Party, what action can they take before the next elections? MR LEUWE: …because we were given resolutions from our Dikgosi who indicated that their people Thirdly; in the past as the Botswana Democratic Party you recruited from the opposition and appointed some support this motion seeking for re-lection if a Member of those people as Ministers. How do you connect that crosses the floor. If there is one thing I am very grateful with this current issue where you are attempting to for in this motion is…I yield. hinder Members of Parliament and Councillors from HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification. crossing the floor whereas you once enjoyed that dispensation and even appointed them Ministers? What HONOURABLE MEMBER: Elucidation. was so special then? Where was this principle back at that time? MR MMOLOTSI: Clarification. Thank you. Honourable Leuwe since you say there should be re- MR LEUWE: Honourable Keorapetse Dithapelo, I lection, one colleague just mentioned that, some parties am not looking at who is crossing the floor from where do not assist candidates financially during campaigns to where. Whether that person is from the opposition because of financial constraints, and the candidates crossing over to the Botswana Democratic Party, or is ends up using their personal resources, so if you say from the Botswana Democratic Party to the opposition, there should be re-elections yet the candidates use their my argument is, he is hurting his voters. Even if you personal resources ,how then is the party going assist, cross over from the opposition and you are appointed when it failed to help in the first campaign? Minister, the bottom line is you have hurt the people who

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voted for you to Parliament because you cannot become about the political party ticket you came to Parliament a Minister without being a Member of Parliament and under then you cross and break the hearts of people for you to be a Member of Parliament… who gave you that responsibility with so much trust and belief that, you will remain loyal to the political party HONOURABLE MEMBER: Elucidation. ticket they voted for you under.

MR LEUWE: What are you saying Lesaso? HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of elucidation.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… MR LEUWE: Sticks, wait.

HONOURABLE MEMBER: Elucidation. HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Laughter!)…

HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… MR LEUWE: It is quite surprising to stand here and MR LEUWE: Please wait a minute let me respond to say we cannot support this motion because there is an Honourable Keorapetse. I was saying I am not looking upcoming Constitution review. Just yesterday we had at where the member is crossing over from and I believe a Motion which was tabled by Honourable Ramogapi, this Bill is not focusing on that. Whether you are going seeking Internship allowance to be increased. There to be appointed a Minister or not, the bottom line is you was a clear explanation from the Minister that there have hurt the people who voted for you to occupy that is a review in the pipeline but we continued to debate seat because they were voting for you under that political that motion, we did not say because there is review in party ticket. Whether you are appointed a Minister is not the pipeline let us withdraw the motion. This should an issue. I did not hear your other question. not demotivate just because there will be review of the Constitution. No, I disagree with Honourable Hikuama. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification. Let us consider our voters because their feelings are hurt MR LEUWE: Ah! Will I ever finish? Thank you, I when we cross over. I yield for Honourable Keorapetse, yield. ask.

ASSISTANT MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION MR KEORAPETSE: Clarification. What are your (MS MAKWINJA): Clarification. You are debating opinions regarding recall? If this motion is about the very well Honourable Leuwe. When we took a break people, why is the Botswana Democratic Party (BDP) to go to the constituencies, did you consult your not bringing an amendment to allow for a recall of people about this Bill because at my constituency, the an incompetent Member of Parliament (MP) by the three meetings I held consulting my constituencies constituents? they supported this Bill? And as I speak, we all have MR LEUWE: If that is your view then you can table Botswana Speaks consultants, so he is updating me that Motion not us. I am talking about the one on the even now that he is consulting with Batswana at my table today, that I support it and relayed reasons that the constituency and they support this Bill. people I am representing want it as it is. It is not tabled MR LEUWE: Honourable Makwinja, we know that because someone is a threat as it affects both sides, COVID-19 does not allow meetings but if restrictions maybe it can prohibit some members that side or some were lifted I would have travelled this entire country from this side to cross over to your side. That is why and consulted. It is not like if there are no meetings I do I say, this is Batswana’s referendum; the people who not meet with my constituents, I met with them, I stay brought us here. with them. I hear their complaints that they are against HONOURABLE MEMBER: Elucidation. floor crossing. That is why I support this Amendment. MR LEUWE: It is surprising if a person can tell you I was still indicating that the resolutions of our Dikgosi that…I yield. is that they support this Bill. They also stay with these people even if they do not do a national referendum, they MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: Elucidation. Thank can hear the views of their people regarding this issue. you neighbour, my apologies for interrupting your I am not talking about Botswana Democratic Party and debate. Honourable Members across the aisle are Umbrella for Democratic Change (UDC), I am talking constantly making reference to the referendum and so

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on. I want to give the example of the 1994 elections them, I can mention those who were not launched by which saw Botswana National Front (BNF) party coming the President. It was not like that President did not like with 13 Members of Parliament, in 1998 Botswana them, it was an issue that there were too many of them. Congress Party (BCP) was formed after defection from Even this side it is not like the same people are assisted, BNF members and during the elections, BCP had 11 Domkrag (Botswana Democratic Party) when it assist Members of Parliament, Batswana punished them by it assists all. I support this Motion Mr Speaker, I have voting for only one Member, is that not a referendum on made a decision on behalf of the people of Takatokwane its own, Batswana were communicating? Thank you… that, when someone leaves certain party which they were voted for under its emblem, let us go back to the MR LEUWE (TAKATOKWANE): Honourable elections. Healy, it is true, that on its own should show us that people vote for you based on something. Those 11 If there is something I liked about this Bill , is where Members of Parliament, when they came back, to it indicates that if a Meber is expelled, he takes his indicate that you are voted based on something, only position and no re-election is done. If that was not the one person was voted, only one, all those others were case, I would not be supporting this Bill, because it was punished in that, they gave you the responsibility of going to be a disadvantage, you can just be fired because a certain party, and you failed. That just shows that you are Honourable Leuwe and you are wearing a big Batswana give you a responsibility looking at what you coat. are bringing. So where it is said that they only vote for HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Laughter!)... you, without looking at the party affiliation, because you are using your own resources, why can you not do MR LEUWE: Knowing that we are going to the your own thing and leave that emblem of people alone elections and that they want to hire someone else. So if it does not benefit you? Some people will die for that this clause was made in such a way that when you are emblem only, and say I am holding onto this jack stand, fired we do not go for elections, you take your position and I am holding onto this umbrella. Not looking at as Member of Parliament with you, I support it a lot the fact that maybe the other party just took a donkey because even those who voted for you, they will see that and dressed it in green colours like someone just said it is not your fault but the fault of those who dismissed you. I support this Motion Mr Speaker, and I have made that, they can be dressed in green, and then they vote a decision, I wish that Honourable Members... looking at the emblem, that this one is being worn by this donkey, and it is the one I will stand and die for. MINISTER FOR PRESIDENTIAL Without looking at who you are, where you are from or AFFAIRS, GOVERNANCE AND PUBLIC the resources you have used. So that is why I am saying, ADMINISTRATION (MR MORWAENG): Point I stand here confidently to support this Bill on behalf of of elucidation. Humbly Honourable Member, can you Batswana at Takatokwane, who voted for me to be their explain the fact that people were consulted in around 32 voice, because they cannot all come here. This Bill is villages, and they supoported? very heartbreaking, I wonder why you are still saying it will come here next time whereas it has been there all HONOURABLE MEMBER: What are those villages? along, Batswana have complained about it for a long MR LEUWE: Thank you Honourable Minister. The time, what do we really want? names of the villages is not an issue, the issue is that HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification. 32 villages were consulted in Botswana, not at South Africa. Batswana indicate that… even at the time when MR LEUWE: I never wanted a clarification when you the likes of Botswana Movement for Democracy (BMD) were speaking, let me just speak and finish. I will also were formed, you heard that Batswana wanted petitions not want clarification from anyone. I want to explain that and wrote down their names that they wanted to go to the even these parties, they have leaders, whom I have even elections, and no longer had a Member of Parliament, heard Honourable Member saying that, if you noticed and they indicated that they were not happy about that. during the elections, even though they said there were Nkamo’s father you know, you are my witness, and even some people we like who were assisted this side, even in London you know that they want to stop that. them at that side, we saw their President launching some people, and leaving out others. If you want me to mention HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Applause!)...

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MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: Elucidation. Thank MR AUTLWETSE: Or Botswana National Front you Mr Speaker. Honourable Leuwe, earlier when (BNF), whatever the case it was. So if after you win, Honourable Hikuama was debating, he said Domkrag you then decide to stand alone, and say people voted for (Botswana Democratic Party) were so eager saying me alone, that being untruthful and dishonest. You were they are going to review the Constitution. In Domkrag’s voted by people, and others were not looking at you (Botswana Democratic Party) manifesto, did they not only, they looked at you because you are a member of talk about the issue that they are going to implement an organisation they like. Some honestly vote for you, a law with regards to floor crossing, when they were looking at the capability you have as a person. That is campaigning to Batswana in 2019? why the Motion is saying, when this union is ruined, let everyone stand on their own so that voters can decide MR LEUWE: Honourable Healy that is what it stated whether they can still trust you. Whether you are the with everybody listening. I wonder why they heard other same person they voted for at that time, or you are now things and did not hear others. That is what it stated, that a changed individual, and they need to be careful when we were going to come up with a law on floor crossing it comes to you because you were not honest with them. during the Constitutional review, those are the things it It is not a problem Mr Speaker, Honourable Leuwe has stated. It is fulfilling what it promised. What I like about said that this law could be wrong if they were oppressed this law is that it is not talking about one party only, which is the only thing that I like. Mr Speaker, I support and they decide to cross the floor, and then they are told this Motion on behalf of the people who elected me, that that there will be re-elections. It is not your fault because when someone just crosses the floor, the votes of the you were chased away. Here we are talking about people people should remain at the party he or she is from. If who got to the elections and were voted by people, no you trust yourself go and contest again, we will see if matter what is happening in India and England, they will they liked you or they liked you based on something. even come to copy from us. Are we the ones who will Thank you. always copy from other people, , are we not interested in coming up with something that others can benchmark ASSISTANT MINISTER OF LOCAL from us? Batswana all over the country GOVERNMENT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT (MR AUTLWETSE): Thank you Mr Speaker. are saying they are swindled by people who come Honourable Member let me indicate that just like my wearing certain party colours, yet they are wolves in colleagues, I support the Motion that has just been put sheepskins. So regardless of which party this person before us by Honourable Minister Morwaeng. I support would be coming from, cross to whichever party… it and I am also surprised that I cannot understand what HONOURABLE MEMBER: Elucidation. the Opposition is saying today. In our line of work, to say that you were voted and you are standing on your HONOURABLE MEMBER: Mongwato. own, is not true. All of us here, we went to the elections MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION (MR representing a certain organisation, at that time you MOLAO): Elucidation. Thank you. As Honourable were a member of a party, and the party President signed Autlwetse has been debating, let me elucidate because a document saying this is a candidate of our party. he has pointed out that in 1985, the 10th Schedule, 52nd People who were there, were those that did not associate Amendment of Constitution of India passed a law of themselves with politics, there were those who were Anti-Defection. So the fact that in India it has been members of political parties and they voted for you and stopped and the schedule which was used to amend you agreed, and the party President signed for you that it is not allowed to show that this thing addresses the you were their representative, messenger and candidate. problem of instability caused by democratically elected You have their manifesto and their Constitution, and legislatures in the India Parliamentary system of you were wearing their party colours, saying, “I am a Government. Where they kept crossing; that is the case, member of Domkrag (Botswana Democratic Party) or in India, it has been removed. I am a member of Umbrella for Democratic Change MR AUTLWETSE: Thank you very much. That is (UDC)” why I like you so much. Mr Speaker, sometimes when HONOURABLE MEMBER: Or Botswana National we do these things we are not merciful to the voters. Just Front (BNF). because they have voted you to Parliament, do not walk

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tall and forget that you were sent. Someone who was HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)… sent is never above the one who sent them. You cannot say you are taking a decision and they would have to MR MMOLOTSI: Clarification Mr Speaker. Thank follow you, yet during campaigns you knelt down going you very much. Whilst at that point, maybe you should house to house saying, “please send me to Parliament, not forget to add the one whereby people would reject so that I can be your representative of repute.” Where you, they would reject your party and it would not be would those words be? That is why I am saying, anyone proper for you to be brought back to Parliament, yet the people we are saying we are concerned about would who goes against his or her initial party, regardless of have shown that they do not want your party, and you which party it is, we should go back to elections so that would be brought back by force. I mean, you should those people who were cheated would have a second touch on that one as well. voice; whether they agree or they do not agree. They would specify whether they are going with you or not. MR SPEAKER: Do you not know the Constitution?

MR MOATLHODI: On a point of clarification MR AUTLWETSE: Honourable Wynter Mmolotsi, Mr Speaker. I thank you Mr Speaker. I thank you if that is making you uncomfortable somehow, bring a Honourable Kgotla Kenneth Autlwetse, Tirelo’s father. Motion along those lines. We shall debate and respond to Initially I was elected at Botswana Democratic Party you at that time. At the moment we are dealing with the (BDP), and I was abused by you… Bill before us. Let us not waste time with unimportant things. HONOURABLE MEMBERS: By who? Mr Speaker, we have debated, let Batswana be HONOURABLE MEMBERS: By you. respected, let their vote be respected. After acquiring the such positions, we should not turn and become MR MOATLHODI: By you! When I realised that you oppressive saying, “they have elected me so they are no were abusing me and I was dying, I crossed over to the longer wise, I am the wise one.” Umbrella for Democratic Change (UDC)… MR MORWAENG: On a point of clarification Mr HONOURABLE MEMBER: Were you in Parliament? Speaker. Honourable Autlwetse what do you think MR MOATLHODI: Yes, I was in Parliament. So was I people who do not want us to go for elections are afraid supposed to just stay when I was abused badly like that? of? Please clarify, what are they afraid of? Why are they insisting that they want to do as they please without MR AUTLWETSE: Nkamo’s father, I do not like consulting the voters? talking about people who are not here. I believe you MR AUTLWETSE: What they are afraid of is in the know your abuser. open my Honourable Minister. They would be wary of HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)… the fact that ,what they did would not be appreciated by Batswana hence going back for elections would result MR AUTLWETSE: Go to him and say a brother never in them being punished. Many tried it in the past and leaves another brother. Go to him and say now we are they were punished. Only a few here and there managed here together, we have met. At this point in time, do to survive because some people are lucky. My comrade not blame the wrong people saying they abused you, there survived. He went to the other side and when he protecting and being lenient to that person because got there, there was sympathy. you are now singing the same song (seboba re bata HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… sa mokwatla, sa mpa re a mpampetsa). Do not do that Mokhurutshe, the way I know you, you never used to MR AUTLWETSE: I said ‘my comrade,’ I did not mention anyone’s name. behave this way. You used to be someone who speaks the truth, when you and I were still members of the BDP MR LEUWE: Clarification Mr Speaker. Thank you Mr (Domkrag). When I left the public service, you taught Speaker. Thank you Honourable Member for yielding. me politics. You did not talk the way you are talking Let me ask you; as we went on campaigning, both sides today. Therefore I am saying focus, do not get confused of the isles, is there anyone who did not align him or Mokhurutshe. What you want to do is so unlike you. herself to any party manifesto, bringing their own Even back at home, they are probably shocked. ideologies parallel to that of the party?

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MR AUTLWETSE: I thank you Honourable Member. MR MORWAENG: Clarification. I would like to I believe I explained that candidates from every ask the Honourable that , when Advocate Duma Boko party come with manifestos from the parties they are travelled through out the country launching Umbrella representing… for Democratic Change (UDC) candidates, and His Excellency (HE) the President also went around the MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! Honourable Members, country launching Botswana Democratic Party (BDP) it is COVID-19 time. Let us adjourn for 30 minutes. candidates and other political leaders, were they not PROCEEDINGS SUSPENDED AT 4:04 P.M. FOR representing parties by doing that? Clarify this point. APPROXIMATELY 30 MINUTES MR AUTLWETSE: Thank you Honourable Morwaeng, PROCEEDINGS RESUMED AT 4:34 P.M. that is absolutely true. All political leaders took the responsibility to launch their party representatives to “EXCHANGE OF SPEAKERSHIP” show that they trust them. So, on behalf of my party, I am launching this candidate, I am campaigning for MR SPEAKER (MR MOATLHODI): Order! Order! my party and not for an individual. Our party believes Just run quickly to your seats. Honourable Member that he/she is the team player that can bring the trophy for Gaborone Central, please resume your seat. Good home. Even during elections there were no names of afternoon Honourable Members. individuals, boxes were labeled BDP, UDC, and all HONOURABLE MEMBERS: Good afternoon Mr other parties which were running for elections. During Speaker. the counting of ballot papers, they called out BDP, UDC, BDP, UDC, and Botswana Patriotic Front (BPF). They MR SPEAKER: We have to start the business of the did not call out names. Now gentlemen have changed, day. When the House broke for some refreshments this they are saying that they are rejecting this Bill because afternoon, Honourable Minister responsible for Local their interests... Government and Rural Development was still on the floor, and he had to himself six minutes, 53 seconds left. MR HIKUAMA: Clarification. Thank you my brother for yielding. Since we use names of parties, do you not MR AUTLWETSE: Thank you Honourable. When we went for a break, I was about to say that this Bill comes realise that time has come for individuals not to contest at the right time Mr Speaker where Politicians have to and only have political parties running for elections? start being truthful and start respecting people’s votes. MR AUTLWETSE: Today you have wasted my time. We should not have instances whereby people cross the floor when they realise that it seems like their political HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)… parties are going to lose the next elections, crossing the floor so that they can continue to serve their interests MR AUTLWETSE: Because firstly political parties are and not the interest of the voters. People should be not people, people represent parties. He/she contesting willing to die for the truth, they have to be truthful and under the name of his/her party. A political party is responsible representatives at all times. Mr Speaker, I the same as a company, it is represented and it cannot do not like that situation. represent itself. I do not know how a party can represent Nations are watching us as Batswana and they have itself because people of your organisation or party are been praising us on most of the things that we have been the ones who nominated you because they trust in you, doing. When history books are read, this should be one not knowing that somehow... of the things that shows that Botswana moved forward. MR KEORAPETSE: Clarification. He was basically There is a statement that says, “Politics is a dirty game,” talking about a proportional representation. Where the but we are the ones who are tarnishing politics by not party goes to elections, wins a certain percentage and being truthful to it. So at some point some people serve then nominate its representatives proportionate to the their own interests and forget about the interests of the percentage which they have as popular vote. nation, they observe the situation and then cross to parties which stand a better chance abandoning the fact MR AUTLWETSE: I am one person who respects that, they have been appointed by a certain party hence your opinions Honourable Keorapetse. Today I thought they have to defend it all seasons. When we went for that we will focus on the issue that is on the table. We elections... are talking about floor crossing, and not proportional

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representation. That one will come at its own time so honouring voters are the reason why they are not sure that we can discuss it. You will ask me that question if they are valued for doing what they are doing when when I support or oppose proportional representation. we go for elections. We must respect them otherwise Right now we should hold it because I believe that it voter apathy will continue. When we are truthful and is one of the issues that are going to be tabled one day. respectful, Batswana will be interested in voting because they will be confident of their voice and action through Today we are talking about people who betray their casting a vote. political parties. We are saying that we should take them out of that mentality and clean them so that they can We must represent people’s different interests. shine bright enough for people to see them as trustworthy Speakers before me explained that we are all here in people. That way people will stop saying that politicians Parliament through different party names. We were are not honest, looking at politicians who make the nation using their manifestos. They have made it possible for to lose faith in us. Let us be trustworthy. Honourable us to be here. No one was standing independently. We Members, why do we fear being trustworthy? This were campaigning through parties. The main issue is, is the time for us to make amendments so that UDC whoever wants to leave a party to another must know members can remain in the UDC, BDP members remain that they are leaving behind the seat of that party. That in BDP, and the same applies to other parties. This is person will be replaced with another. I believe that this not prison, so when Members of Parliament (MPs) start is a straightforward law. developing these ideas, they should tell people that they have realised that they made a mistake hence they are We were campaigning using our different party colours. withdrawing and that as they are withdrawing, they are That is why we are here. We were campaigning through members and supporters of our parties. They brought us going to contest and they would say its fine... here with the hope that we are going to represent their MR SPEAKER: Your time is up Honourable Minister! interests as required from their parties. If it happens that you get offended and make a decision to cross to the MR REGOENG (MOLEPOLOLE NORTH): Thank other side, leaving those who voted for you, it will be you Mr Speaker, Honourable Pono Moatlhodi and wrong of you. It shows lack of respect for your voters. congratulations for being there, I trust that you will We should not just do whatever we want. The law should lead us properly. I rise to support this Bill (amendment) Mr Speaker. I believe that it has been overtaken by bind us that, if you are here under a certain party name, events and it should have long been presented because you will leave here under the same. If you feel that you Batswana have been eagerly waiting for it at our cannot continue with the party, you should know that respective constituencies across the country. you will leave here with the seat that brought you here.

I want to enlighten the Honourable Members who are Like those who spoke before me said, when we against this Bill that, this issue is one of the contributing campaign, we campaign for our leadership, our different factors to why politicians are seen as untrustworthy Presidents and they also do the same for us. Now if we people. Instances whereby people send you here desert and say we were brought here by people, we are because of what you promised them under a certain not telling the truth and we are not fair to our voters who party, and then when people anger you here you do not brought us here with confidence in us. We must accord go back to the voters to inform them that the party that them the same respect they gave us when they sent us you were representing when they voted you has now here. If we do not do that, it shows we hold them in angered you and you are leaving it. Asking them if you contempt yet we still want… should continue or not. That is what this law wants to accomplish. MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: On a point clarification. Thank you my brother for yielding. Thank MR SPEAKER: Bill. you and good afternoon Honourable Speaker. My brother when you say our Presidents were leaders of our MR REGOENG: …so those who are opposing it are campaigns, on our side… doing so because there is no honesty in what they are doing. MR SPEAKER: His Excellency the President.

I also want to explain that, towards registration of MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: I profusely apologise General Elections, different political parties always Honourable Speaker. I want to talk about party complain about voter apathy. These issues of not Presidents not necessarily the Head of State. On our side

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it is the Head of State. His Excellency the President was constituent who brought me here when I am talking the leader of our campaign, Umbrella for Democratic about mine? When are they going to talk about their Change (UDC) had Advocate Honourable Boko in the rights, where and how? That is why we are saying, let forefront. They had a slogan, Boko for Botswana (B for us go and consult people if we want to leave the seat and B) UDC on its own is competing with parties. It does ask for the way forward. They are the ones to decide if not show that they believe in this party. They believe in you go back again or not. a leadership which is led by an individual. I hope you understand me. DR DOW: On a point of clarification. Thank you Mr Speaker. This law that we are debating called floor MR REGOENG: That is true Honourable Member. crossing, is it not the same one which Batswana calls That is what we did. Our party slogans took precedence. running away with their vote? Is it the same law? More than 50 per cent of the time, when we campaign, we talk about the party. We talked about our slogans and MR SPEAKER: Honourable Member, is it not called our Presidents. We were not representing ourselves as running away with a vote? individuals. Now that alone, shows that our parties take MR REGOENG: That is the one. This law protects precedence. Our party Presidents and manifestos were Batswana that I am representing in Molepolole North in the fore front. Now if you leave behind these three so that when I am offended I should not run away with things I have just mentioned and you just want to be their vote. That is the purpose of this law. Now that is left there, why are you there because there are people why we are saying, this is a straightforward law and in who voted you here on those factors? Therefore it will fact it has delayed. It should have been brought here a not be right to make a personal decision and if I make long time ago. We could not have instances where now them it means I have done so even for my constituents. some have run away with people’s votes. That is wrong. Our constituents that we represent, some of them think better than we do here. Therefore, you Mr Speaker, this is a short Bill which is straightforward cannot make decisions for them. and does not require to be debated for long. We should Mr Speaker, this Motion could have long been tabled respect the voters who brought us here. They did so so that when we are here, we know fully that we are truthfully, some stood in the sun and in the rains after here because of our parties. We are here to represent the waking up in the wee hours of the morning to cast their interests of our constituents. We are here to pass what votes. However, when we come to Parliament we just they want passed. Some will view it in the light that want to be ruled by our feelings and floor cross anyhow when you leave that seat, you are denied your rights. because we are saying, we are exercising our rights. What you need to understand is that, firstly, you denied your constituents their rights. They brought you here Mr Speaker, I do not have much to say. I support this Bill and you did not consult them on what offended you and . Whoever wants to leave the party of the seat that they you just left. You must know that when you say you are holding, must first consult the voters. They should have been denied your rights, you have also denied go and tell them that they made the right decision and others their rights… then voters decide whether or not to give their blessings. Thank you Mr Speaker… MR TSOGWANE: On a point of clarification. Honourable Member, do not forget the point that I MR SPEAKER: Clarification sought before you sought clarification on. Those who are talking about conclude. their rights, do they ever talk about the rights of their voters. Is the candidate the only one with rights? MR REGOENG: Granted.

MR REGOENG: That is true Your Honour. The reason MR MORWAENG: Clarification. Thank you why voters normally say we are not truthful and politics Honourable Regoeng. is a dirty game, they are saying that because we care MR SPEAKER: Just clarification before you start more about ourselves than the interests of those that we Honourable Minister. Honourable Regoeng, were you are representing. Now I will be moving with the seat done or you yielded for the Honourable Minister? that brought me here because, “I am exercising my rights”. The question is, what about the rights of my MR REGOENG: …(Inaudible)…

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MR SPEAKER: Thank you very much. joining other parties which are performing better, when they see that there is serious underperformance, that MR MORWAENG: Honourable Regoeng, do you they are out or order and are no longer in charge. mean since you have been campaigning for people to vote Honourable Boko’s party or the one led by HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification. President Masisi and now that you are in Parliament, do you think it is good or not good for a politician who MR SPEAKER: Clarification sought. is here to support the issue to floor cross with people’s MR HIKUAMA: Clarification. Thank you Honourable. votes? When you say that a party is underperforming, do you MR REGOENG: Honourable Minister, that is what I mean where they restrict people from raising their am talking about. One would have campaigned using opinions and from representing their voters, where Honourable Boko’s name and after successfully getting people are forced to vote against aspirations of their what they want, they then claim that they no longer people who are in rural areas just as they were voting want to be a member of that party. When they ask you to against internship allowance and other issues which they move so another member can replace you, then you ask usually reject, those that could assist their constituents? them that no one should replace you. This is what we MR MMOLOTSI: That is the issue and I will talk are talking about. We are saying, let us approve this law about it. so that we can put a stop to these things; against those who cheat in this manner, those who use other peoples’ Democracy and our Constitution; Constitution offers resources and then turn against them by joining other freedom of association; where a person is at liberty to parties. choose who to associate with. This law is trying to disarm what the Constitution entitled to every Motswana, Mr Speaker, I had already concluded when Honourable that from now henceforth as members of Botswana stood up. I fully support this law and want it to be Democratic Party (BDP), we are saying make a decision discussed and approved as soon as possible so that the to allow us to disarm this freedom of association from President can sign it and implement it. Thank you Mr you, which was entitled to you by the Constitution of Speaker. this country. We want to disarm it so that we can control you as a Member of Parliament, whether you like it or MR MMOLOTSI (FRANCISTOWN SOUTH): not, happy or not, so that we can do as we please. Thank you Mr Speaker. I want to start with what the Former President Mr Mogae once said in one of the HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification. Parliament Sessions. He mentioned that Parliamentarians MR SPEAKER: Clarification sought. must always be in their sober minds whenever they make laws because if we can make laws while we are in MR MMOLOTSI: Let me develop this point. our angry state, we are also going to make harsh laws. That is its intention, so that people can live in fear. That If we can make laws while in a joyful state, we are also is why I believe this kind of law is not good Mr Speaker. going to make very palatable laws which is pointless. Making laws with the intention to protect ourselves is wrong. What we are doing will force a Minister or some I want to indicate that Parliament of Botswana today is Ministers to come up with a law which stops people from making a law out of anger, people are scared because divorcing when they see that their wife is threatening to what they are doing right now is wrong. The party is not divorce them. They will say since we have the powers to doing well and underperforming. For that reason, they make the law, women are no longer allowed to divorce, are afraid that people are going to leave their party and while they are abused by a Minister. This is how these join others because they do not know what they will say things start Mr Speaker. All the countries which ended up being abusive started by coming up with an abusive to them in the next elections. Our procedure is such that Constitution, they started doing things in the manner after every five years, we have to account to our voters. that Domkrag is intending to do them today. Looking at how Domkrag is performing, it is going to be difficult to account for what they achieved in these The intention of this law is to give Central Committee five years. For that reason, Domkrag intends to bring a and leaders of different parties the opportunity to have law which is going to restrict people from leaving and absolute control over the opinions of members of their

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parties. For this reason, members of those parties are not be vacant when you leave simply because you do not going to be free to represent their constituency because support that party or their affairs. If at all they are the they fear that Central Committee or the leader of that ones who sent you, they are surely going to vote for you. party will remove them during vetting, because they were not supporting them. We were debating the Motion MR MMOLOTSI: That is my point Honourable VP. which says to increase allowance for graduates who are The thing is, no one would like to run for elections again on internship from P1400 to P3000. So a member who because it is expensive. Parties are not assisting except was sent to support that Motion, if they are a member of those who were captured, those who usually have a lot BDP, they are not going to do that because their leaders of money. Maybe they are the ones who can sponsor the are watching. This means if they can debate on the basis campaigns of their candidates but others depend on their of what people say at the constituency, they will be in families for support, that means when they go back for trouble because they might not partake again during the elections without having re-election because you differ elections. with the party…

If you fail to note these things members of Domkrag, HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification. you are going to be in trouble because you are giving MR MMOLOTSI: …because it no longer serves absolute control of the party to the President who is your interests then there is re-election. It means you going to do as he pleases. You are handing your party to no longer have money, those with money are going to Central Committee… win elections. Nowadays winning elections is about HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification. financial muscle. Botswana Democratic Party (BDP) knows that it is being sponsored by people… MR MMOLOTSI: I will yield for you Vice President HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification. (VP). MR MMOLOTSI: …many people, rich business MR SPEAKER: Clarification sought. owners, they use money to squash the opposition.

MR MMOLOTSI: Yes, I will give him. …you are HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification. handing it to Central Committee which is going to have total control over your affairs while you on the other MR MMOLOTSI: As you witnessed… hand come to Parliament only to be controlled by The HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification. VP. When he set pace and tone like he normally does, even if he is completely out of order like he normally MR MMOLOTSI: Yes sir…with the by-election which is, you would be expected to obey him just as you was at Phillip Matante East, at Francistown South, BDP normally do. People will be laughing at you when you was led by Campaign Manager Honourable Guma, they go out there wondering why you are failing to speak came carrying a lot of money, food and drinks were flowing. It was like Christmas time at my constituency for yourselves since he will be controlling you. Let me that time. People were bought day and night, artists from yield for clarification. South Africa like Malinga were hired, a lot of money MR SPEAKER: Honourable Mmolotsi, who are you was used. If we were not working with people… yielding for; His Honour the VP? HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of procedure Mr Speaker. MR MMOLOTSI: His Honour the VP. MR MMOLOTSI: …we could have lost those MR TSOGWANE: Clarification. Thank you elections… Honourable Mmolotsi. Honourable, you are really making effort today but all your plans are failing. It HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of procedure. is really difficult for you. Let me ask for clarification. MR MMOLOTSI: …due to the financial power of the You mentioned that a member would fail to support Botswana Democratic Party. the interests of their constituents. This law has nothing to do with you going for elections again because they MR SPEAKER: Point of procedure, you resume your are going to reject you. You are saying your post will seat. Honourable Leader of the House.

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LEADER OF THE HOUSE (MR TSOGWANE): HONOURABLE MEMBER: Elucidation. Point of procedure. Honourable Guma is not here, he cannot defend himself, so do not impute improper MR MMOLOTSI: These are the things we should motives on him saying he came carrying a lot of money consider. at a certain by-election. Let us respect people who are During elections, at the polling station, there is a not here because if they were in Parliament, they could candidate and party name but when people vote, they have the right to defend themselves. I do not know what vote for both the party and the candidate but they Honourable Guma Moyo did to you such that you would mostly vote for the candidate. If the party representative want to tarnish his name in his absence in Parliament. is lebonga (incompetent), they do not vote for that MR SPEAKER: Honourable Member, correct that. candidate, people vote for a party which has a promising candidate therefore let us not assume that a person or MR MMOLOTSI: Yes sir. Let me withdraw candidate has no use in that equation. So tell me now Honourable Guma Moyo’s name and say a Campaign that if you want to implement such Amendment are you Manager came carrying a lot of money buying people at therefore saying the candidate’s name which was voted an alarming rate. So we do not want that, where people for and that candidate’s resources… are afraid of re-election and you come carrying a lot of money sponsored by a businessman then go and buy HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification. votes at the constituency, people will then end up voting MR MMOLOTSI: …he is the one who paid the for you looking at the money and not your competence. nomination fee, who if elections were unfair, that However I thank residents of Francistown South that person pays for petitions at court so are you saying that you came with huge amounts of money that time but person… they stayed true to their word that they want to vote for a party Honourable Mmolotsi is representing and voted HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification. I yielded for you a few days back. for Honourable Uyapo Nyeku to be a Councillor. Let us not be selective when debating this Bill, as we want to MR MMOLOTSI: …why not include that person? be. If this Bill is not targeting people, one of the things it could be addressing is to find out if a person who lost HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification Wynter. elections should be appointed; is that supposed to be MR MMOLOTSI: Let me yield for Honourable the case? If this Bill is not targeting people it could be Leuwe. closing gaps that if a person has lost elections it means people do not want that person therefore he/she cannot MR SPEAKER: Honourable who? be appointed to be a Member of Parliament or Council nonetheless. HONOURABLE MEMBER: Leuwe.

Just look at what is currently happening in this MR LEUWE: Clarification. Thank you Honourable Parliament; Honourable Molebatsi wins elections Mmolotsi for yielding. I heard you say if the party but Honourable Mzwinila who lost is appointed to representative is legumba (incompetent) then a more be a Minister, Honourable Molebatsi is not given any competent candidate will be voted. Do you mean just prominent post. In the public eye, it is clear that the one like your President lost elections, it means the party wanted is this one, the one not sought is that one that is candidate was legumba? Even at Gaborone Central, why he was not appointed to be a Minister. You can now where Dr Butale was a candidate and Healy won, are see that this system is bad, you only consider people’s those people magumba? opinions when it favours you. When it does not favour As you allude that parties were funded and others were you and people have revealed the sign that we want not, are you referring to the same situation where we Molebatsi, you maintain that you want Mzwinila. heard a clip of you saying Muti sponsored Umbrella for HONOURABLE MEMBER: Elucidation. Democratic Change (UDC) with a lot of money? Are you referring to such scenarios? MR MMOLOTSI: So, do not consider people when it suits you, when it does not suit you, you only think MR SPEAKER: Honourable Member for Francistown about serving you own interests. South, are you referring to those kind of scenarios?

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MR MMOLOTSI: I am not sure whether Honourable MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: He says there is a Leuwe is serious when he compares candidates thing called magumba. I do not know if it is a language who were standing against Honourable Gaolathe, used at Francistown, I do not understand it. Honourable Butale and Honourable Boko and those who won. No, you are making fun of them. I believe HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)… you cannot compare two very different things; you want MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: I heard you talked to compare Dr Butale to Honourable Healy. You will not about me and Dr Butale so I now want to understand be fair, not even to Honourable Healy. Let us leave that the one about the 2014 elections when BCP leader was issue and proceed. a candidate and Dr Butale won so it therefore means We have a procedure of Specially Elected Members people did not want that legumba for BCP? Is that your of Parliament (SEMPs), but we hear that it is done to point? appoint people with special skills. It is not meant for MR MMOLOTSI: So Mr Speaker, as we draft such Members of Botswana Democratic Party but for people Bills… with special skills. So please enlighten me, if you implement this Bill, what are you going to do? Are you HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)… going to amend the law such that it should be people MR MMOLOTSI: …let us try to consider that voters from the ruling party? might not like their representative. Currently many HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification. voters are not happy with the way Members of the Botswana Democratic Party are handling their issues, MR MMOLOTSI: Personally, if this dispensation they believe they are serving their own interests in is for people with special skills, then the focus should Parliament. The nation is not happy that Members of be across the nation to see who can be appointed the Botswana Democratic Party have been rejecting not considering who is a Member of the Botswana Motions which were being tabled in Parliament. So Democratic Party? what does the law say about a Member of Parliament who misled people promising them that he is going to You can now see that the way this Bill is drafted its represent their interests but changes and serves his own? object is to pave way so that Members of the Botswana What does the law say about that person? Democratic Party can be voted because if a different person is voted, this is what is going to happen. We were campaigning using youth programmes and Honourable Members, you can see that you are making promised them that their lives will change but you a huge mistake here. Let me yield for Honourable Healy, are rejecting internship allowance increase. I recently he has been seeking for a long time. tabled a Motion to resume Ipelegeng which Members of the Botswana Democratic Party also rejected yet MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: Clarification. Thank we have budgeted for it. Other Honourable Members you Honourable… have been tabling Motions which seek to change the MR SPEAKER: Honourable Member for Gaborone lives of people who voted for them but Members of the Botswana Democratic Party who were campaigning Central, you have to wait to be called upon by the through unemployed youth and elderly are rejecting Speaker. Please go ahead Honourable Member for Motions which seek to improve the lives of those people. Gaborone Central. So my issue is, if that is the case, the law that you want MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: Honourable Speaker, to implement, why can you not implement it to explain Nkamo’s father, my sincere apologies. Honourable what voters should do to you people who have turned Mmolotsi I would like to go back to your issue of against those who voted for you and the things that you magumba (incompetent people). Are you referring to promised? Why do you want to cater for yourselves the same scenario where in 2014, Botswana Congress only and not cater for the voters that you claim you are Party (BCP) was represented by its leader at Gaborone representing? The things that you do by using the law Central… to do what is suitable for you and not what is suitable for other people, is what we do not accept. You are scaring MR SPEAKER: What is the word you are saying? me Domkrag members because you are representing

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people, you are not representing yourselves and you are get out of order. I do not know if it is right for him to not protecting the people who voted for you. What the label me as he is doing. If he is talking about my belly, voters want in constituencies are laws that are in line what will I talk about in his body which I can say is big? with how their lives can be improved. I cannot.

Artists are starving at the moment. You could be HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)… implementing a law that is in line with how artists can come out of this problem. People have no plots MR RAKGARE: So I will ask you to rebuke at constituencies, we could be implementing a law Honourable Mmolotsi. We have to differ, he should say in regards to how Batswana can have plots. People his feelings in regards to the artists, but he should not are suffering because of lack of jobs, and we are not say my belly is big, because I am a slim person like you implementing laws that can ensure that jobs are available see me Mr Speaker. Thank you. in Botswana. We are implementing a law that says let us MR SPEAKER: You have made your point Honourable prevent people from leaving our party as we will end Minister. Order! Order! may we have order please. I up losing power. That is being selfish! That is being strongly agree with Honourable Minister of Youth greedy and irresponsible as a Government. We should Empowerment, Sport and Culture Development. be aware of these things Honourable Members. I request Standing Order 58.11 Honourable Mmolotsi, states that members of Domkrag, to withdraw this law because we have to speak to each other with the decorum that fits Batswana want to continue to have a representative who this House. In all fairness, I could not agree more with can cater for their wishes. I have been to the elections the Honourable Minister, please retract what you said with three different parties. You abused me at Domkrag about his belly and use the right words on him, please. and I won against you with another party. Someone took our party and I went somewhere else, then I also won MR MMOLOTSI: Mr Speaker, I withdraw, and I ask against you… for forgiveness from Honourable Member for describing the condition of his belly. HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)… HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)… MR MMOLOTSI: That is because people look at the fact that a representative advocates for them. They do MR SPEAKER: Honourable Mmolotsi! not care about the party nowadays. Just imagine that MR MMOLOTSI: I withdraw Mr Speaker. So Batswana have been voting for the same party for 55 Honourable Members, this Motion like I hear you saying years and voting for a party that is useless to them and it came at the right time, it did not come at the right has turned itself into their oppressor. Right now we are time and it is not even supposed to be here. We have serious issues which at the moment as we are going for told that artists are being beaten at Gaborone Secondary Christmas, we could be addressing, not these issues of School, because they have met there to say we are yours. You know that Honourable Morwaeng who came starving, let us discuss this to see how we can get out of up with this Motion is my colleague. Like I said that this trouble. There is Minister Rakgare, his belly is big, I have represented three political parties, he has also he is okay, there is not even a problem… been a member of all the political parties in Botswana. He knows the pain of what it is like to be oppressed in HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)… a political party. We formed Botswana Movement for Democracy (BMD) together, he was a National… HONOURABLE MEMBER: Point of order. MR SPEAKER: Your time is up Honourable Mmolotsi! MR MMOLOTSI: His party is not saying anything to him and he is just happy. People are starving … MR TSHERE (MAHALAPYE WEST): Thank you Honourable Speaker... MR SPEAKER (MR MOATLHODI): Point of order, Honourable Mmolotsi! HONOURABLE MEMBER: …(Inaudible)…

MINISTER OF YOUTH EMPOWERMENT, MR TSHERE: …(Laughter!)… Thank you very much. SPORT AND CULTURE DEVELOPMENT (MR I am also standing to reject that Motion Mr Speaker. RAKGARE): On a point of order. Thank you very Firstly, let me say when we are in this House, I am much Mr Speaker. Let me say let us differ, but let us not saddened when we implement laws that seem like we

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are saying we are implementing a law that says when someone to get out of office because they want to leave you jump you should be able to come down when a political party, like Honourable Mmolotsi was saying, we know that when you jump you are going to come what are we saying about the one who is in the party and down. Then we implement a law of that kind. Right when there is voting within the party he or she does not now, this Motion of floor crossing, some Honourable do that like people expect? That means that even that Member said it the way it is earlier on comparing it to one we should do something about it if we are going to the time Botswana Congress Party (BCP) went to the implement these kind of laws every time. elections with 11 Members of Parliament. When it came from the elections, only one Member of Parliament MR KEORAPETSE: On a point of elucidation, Mr won the elections. That is how this Motion is. It is Speaker. What I do not understand clearly that the Vice self-regulating, there is no need to implement it. It is President is talking about… something that happens naturally. Voters have shown on MR SPEAKER: Honourable Member of Parliament many occasions … for Selebi Phikwe West, you have to be called upon by HONOURABLE MEMBER: Even on Arone. the Speaker.

MR TSHERE: Even on Arone. They have shown in MR KEORAPETSE: I am sorry Mr Speaker. I was immeasurable occasions that when you leave a political saying when a party now turns against the social party and go to another one, they will not vote for you in contract and does not do what they promised at the the elections. That is the biggest punishment. We know. elections, what recourse do the voters have when an I am a politician and I know and that is why you never individual Member of Parliament (MP) is out of order see me… by not voting like the people of his or her constituency want him to vote in Parliament? MR KEORAPETSE: On a point of clarification. You should explain that this self-regulation also comes in MR TSHERE: Thank you very much Honourable different ways, because Honourable Wynter Mmolotsi is Speaker. I wanted to skip that one, because I wanted to an example that even when you leave a party and people demonstrate that this thing is self-regulating and you do understand you and they can see that you are a worthy not need to worry. We do not need to have a law. Those Member of Parliament, they can continue to follow you. who have left parties will lose and if Batswana still like them despite them leaving the party, they will vote for MR TSHERE: Thank you very much Honourable them again like Honourable Mmolotsi. Keorapetse for showing that balance, because there is really a balance in this. That is why I am saying, Secondly … sometimes when we are here, there is no need to say let us implement a law that states that when you jump you HONOURABLE MEMBER: On a point of can come down, because we know that you are going clarification Mr Speaker. to come down. It is not necessary for us to implement MR TSHERE: No, let us go on because that will delay that law. us. Secondly, Honourable Members on the other side MR TSOGWANE: On a point of clarification, Mr are saying that, a study or consultation was done in 32 Speaker. Thank you Honourable Member of Parliament. villages. Mr Speaker, Mahalapye Sub-District alone That is the issue we are emphasizing. The only difference has 42 villages, so that does not mean anything. It is so between what you are saying and what we are saying is small and it does not provide any concrete information time, it is a question of time. You take five years having to say that is what the people of Botswana are saying. a social contract with people, then you say no, let me It is only a few villages, consulted more than 20 years just continue with this contract for five years and when ago for that matter. It is not conclusive Mr Speaker. It is you leave a political party, you have ended the contract not something we can use and he is not even explaining you have with them. It cannot work because there has further. Maybe he is referring to settlements. to be a law to protect that social contract for five years. I want to move to the second one. They emphasise that MR TSHERE: Thank you Honourable Speaker and I we should go for elections. That is why this side we are can hear and understand the Leader of the House. Like saying people do not know what elections are. When we say, there has to be a balance. As much as we want you know what it means to go for elections, you cannot

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say we should go for elections after two, three or four MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: Elucidation. Thank months. You will be wasting Batswana’s time, funds and you very much Mr Speaker. Hey! You are running the many other things that have to do with elections. Some House smoothly, I wish you could occupy that seat of us who have lost elections many times know it is not forever and guide the House. a joke; it is not something we can jump up and down Honourable Tshere, I heard you talking about the with, playing the election game with Batswana. When number of villages consulted, you feel they are few. Batswana go out there for elections, they leave their We always have Motions coming from that side, being lands and cattle posts so you cannot keep calling them brought by yourselves; like last week we were talking every day saying they should go and vote. about nominating pastors to be Members of Parliament. One could ask, did you consult? How many people did HONOURABLE MEMBER: Thank you… you talk to, as you are saying your constituency has 44 MR SPEAKER: Honourable Hikuama, on what point villages? are you standing on? I also wanted to clarify this one for you; in the BDP, MR HIKUAMA: Clarification. we know elections very well because we go through a primary election system that vets us going forward. MR SPEAKER: Please go ahead. You have to wait to You are just handpicked to say ‘Tshere will stand here, be called upon by the Chair. Keorapetse there, Hikuama there.’ We do not do that, we understand elections. Thank you. MR HIKUAMA: Clarification. I thank you Honourable, you are debating very well. When you talk about wasting MR KEORAPETSE: Point of order. Mr Speaker, funds and other things that belong to Government; right maybe you should correct what Honourable Healy now it is evident that the Government is broke and the is saying because we do have primary elections. The people who were running elections have not been paid nation out there might think we do not have them in our even as we speak. So where are they going to get the parties. In our primary elections there were four of us funds from to pay the new officers again? in Selebi Phikwe West in the Botswana Congress Party (BCP) in 2014. When Rre (Mr) started contesting for MR TSHERE: Thank you very much Honourable elections, he was contending with Mr Mafoko… Hikuama. This is what I am saying that we should not think we could go for elections every week or every MR SPEAKER: Who is Rre (Mr) here? month, no. We cannot do that because it is expensive; MR KEORAPETSE: Honourable Saleshando was it is expensive for parties, individuals and the country, contending with D.G. Mafoko in the primary elections. as it has been said they did not pay people. How can we So, we have primary elections in the opposition parties. be able to run elections if they have to occur every six Primary elections were initiated by the opposition. They months? We cannot run elections like that. had a committee that comprised of 18 members, so it If we change this law, it will be clashing with the is the one that vetted out the likes of Kabo Morwaeng Constitution under Section 13. This is Section 68 that despite having won… we seek to amend. Section 13 gives an individual, MR SPEAKER: State your order please. whether you are a Member of Parliament or what; you are given authority by the Constitution to choose. You MR KEORAPETSE: We have primary elections, so he have the choice to be with the Botswana Democratic should not sound like they are the only ones who have Party (BDP) or you can come to the Umbrella for primary elections. They started in the opposition and the Democratic Change (UDC) anytime you want. You BDP later copied that practice. have the freedom to associate and disassociate as you MR SPEAKER: You have made your point Honourable please. That is the Constitutional provision that is Member for Selebi Phikwe West but that is not a point provided for by the Constitution. When we say we are of order, it is a point of correction. going to amend the Constitution to take away the power of choosing which party to lie with, then we are not fair MR TSHERE: Thank you very much, and let me also and I am willing to allow any rebuttal from that side. rush this side. I was still saying…

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ASSISTANT MINISTER OF HEALTH AND chieftaincy. You promised them last time when we went WELLNESS (MR LELATISITSWE): Point of order. for elections that there is going to be a Paramount Chief Mr Speaker, I was listening to the Honourable Member of Bayei and you did not amend the law so that Bayei there speaking, but the one who spoke before him, can have a representative at Ntlo ya Dikgosi. This is not Honourable Wynter Mmolotsi said this Bill is taking fair. away someone’s rights of freedom of association. I MR MORWAENG: Clarification. Thank you Mr wonder what he means. This will confuse Batswana Speaker. Umbrella for Democratic Change (UDC) has because it was not said once the Bill is passed, one many Members of Parliament (MPs) and they used a cannot resign from their party, a person can resign. lot of funds during campaigns, I am talking about UDC What one has to do is leave the seat as is. If they want together with their leader Advocate Boko. So, I want to leave, they resign. The challenge is that they have the Honourable Member to explain if he is saying that it many factions that side so they are panicking that there will be fair for them to let their leader leave their party. might be another party that will be formed. We already When you go to people and they vote you under UDC, know the kind of factions that are in the BCP. We know do you see it acceptable to turn against your leader and the party just because he is not here in Parliament? Is it that Honourable Keorapetse is for Duma Gideon Boko right? (DGB) and some are routing for different others. We already know these things, so they are scared. Wynter is MR TSHERE: Thank you very much Honourable alone. I wonder if he is considering taking one of them Speaker. We are not changing and we never even think as they will be getting fragmented. Kapinga taking his about that. I know that you are scared that side and that own and Dumelang also taking his own… is why you are presenting this Bill. You think that some people are going to leave you. So, we do not make laws MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! Honourable Members, for every fly that passes by. especially you the Honourable Assistant Minister of Health, it is not a point of order; it is a point of correction. I was still talking about the piecemeal approach. There Please Standing Order 57.1 says we should focus of the are many Sections in the Constitution that we want to topic at hand. You are beginning to tour the horizon review and they are from far back. For example; Bayei Honourable Members, please stick to the subject matter. Chieftaincy at Gumare, you have long promised them, misleading them. It is not the only one, Section 78 and MR TSHERE: Thank you very much Honourable 79... Speaker. I had said I yield for anybody who would ask HIS HONOUR THE VICE PRESIDENT (MR whether when we change this law it will not clash with TSOGWANE): Point of correction. Thank you Section 13 of the Constitution and none arose. Honourable Tshere because I noticed that you are the They did not question freedom of association and to only Member of Parliament (MP) who is very honest. disassociate. A piecemeal approach to the amendment When someone asks for a point of correction, you yield of the Constitution as we always say, that they always so that he/she can make that correction, you do not want sample the Constitution…Honourable Kapinga always them to violate the Standing Orders by seeking points explains that this is a very high level document that of order even though it is not a point of order. I thank ought not to be played around with like we are doing, you for that. that those which do not require a referendum shall be done without a referendum. They can come and say it No, the issue regarding Bogosi of Bayei is very clear, in Parliament that we do not need to consult people, we I was the Minister of Local Government and Rural could just change them yet we would not realise that it Development at that. I recognised them, they understand offends some Clauses in the Constitution. This is what that this issue is at Section 77, 78, 79, but since the we are summarising, considering the Constitution in Constitution is going to be reviewed, their Bogosi and general. That is what we are saying. recognition of their tribe is going to be included. They were not fooled because Constitutional amendment is There is an issue here, which Honourable Hikuama still coming, we did not fool them... always talks about, and it has to do with the Constitution; we keep going around it. It has to do with the Bayeyi HONOURABLE MEMBER: ...(Inaudible)...

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MR TSOGWANE: No, you do not know anything and MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND you are far from Bogosi of Bayei. COMMUNICATIONS (MR SEGOKGO): Clarification. Thank you Mr Speaker. Let me explain HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Laughter!)... something simple. Honourable Members...

MR TSHERE: Thank you very much. No, these issues HONOURABLE MEMBER: ...(Murmurs)... are there, they come from way back and they concern Section 78 and 79 of the Constitution as you are saying. MR SEGOKGO: I will explain, do not derail me We plead that we should pay attention to it, Batswana from saying what I want to talk about. Honourable, should have a discussion around it so that we can have we addressed this issue in our manifesto. You are just a determination as a society to see how we are going to misleading the nation by making statements that we move forward with these issues. are scared. Part of the contract we entered into before coming here, we said that we are going to present the I wanted to touch on that one and conclude with the floor crossing Bill, so all these utterances about fear are position that UDC holds in relation to this issue. In yours, you are the ones who are scared. our UDC manifesto, we talk about electoral systems which Honourable Hikuama was talking about. If we MR TSHERE: Thank you very much Mr Speaker. are a democratic Government that wants to develop, I have already said it all, I am saying that this Bill is we have to talk about proportional representation when useless, it cannot even reduce the price of bread at Spar discussing these issues. We should empower parties or create employment. It cannot accomplish anything, as institutions of our democracy, that will manage to it is useless. As I am saying, it is a Bill that serves the encourage people, its members and prepare them to the interests of a certain party because it is serving the level that they can be deployed. When elections take master, it serves people who want to use it at that time place at Mahalapye, UDC should contest and be voted, and in this case, it is the leader of the BDP. He wants to control them by putting them in a cage so that he can the party should be voted on its own in a hybrid model be sure that no one is going to escape. This side we are that we are talking about, which is both first past the saying no, we do not have a problem and no one wants post and proportional representation. After elections to defect. So these are not appropriate laws... take place in Mahalapye, UDC party will then out of its members and the ranks that are there, DETERMINE HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Murmurs)... who is suitable to be deployed to come and guard party HONOURABLE MEMBER: ...(Inaudible)... position in Parliament. That thing empowers the party. That is what we should do, to empower the institutions MR TSHERE: We want people to defect from that that strengthen our democracy, not tying people to trees, side, and now you are blocking us. So it is the only... no, that is not democracy. So that is what we should do, so that parties strengthen their democratic processes MR SPEAKER: Order! Honourable Members. Please, within. Standing Order 58.4 says, you must be silent when another Member is speaking. Lastly Mr Speaker, I understand that this Bill is from way back, some members have been saying that it dates back MR TSHERE: Thank you very much Honourable to 80 something or 90 something. It is evident that every Speaker. I had already concluded with those words, I time when parties have challenges in which people are support the Bill … I mean, I oppose this Bill. considering to defect, they present this Bill and I am not HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Applause!)... only talking about Botswana Democratic Party (BDP), parties do that. As you can see that there is too much HONOURABLE MEMBERS: ...(Murmurs)... fear at BDP, that some people might end up crossing over to us and I do not know why they are scared. They MR TSHERE: Mr Speaker, I do not support this Bill. are scared and when they start being scared, you will Honourable Leader of the House twisted my tongue... see. This Bill presentation is a sign of panic Mr Speaker. MR SPEAKER: You have made your point. They are sacred that their members might leave them, so they are blocking them from crossing the floor which I MR TSHERE: Let me explain that we do not support it do not think is a good idea. Mr Speaker. Thank you very much.

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MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY (GABORONE to that they broke away from BNF to go and form BCP, CENTRAL): Thank you very much Mr Speaker, you they did not steal BNF. Therefore, when he says they are leading exceptionally well Nkamo’s father, it is fun! stole, since I was part of them, he is accusing us of being thieves. Honourable Tshere, let me start by differing with you regarding strengthening of political parties. This indeed HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)… will strengthen political parties. For example, Botswana Congress Party (BPC) was done, it was a finished entity DR GOBOTSWANG: Mr Speaker, reprimand and then UDC under the leadership of Advocate Duma Honourable Healy to stop saying things which are not Boko goes and resuscitates the BCP from the dead. So true. We said this is an honourable Parliament. after that, BCP will be cheating if they can later on say HONOURABLE MEMBER: He is saying BCP was that they want to defect from UDC... formed in Palapye.

DR GOBOTSWANG: Point of order. Thank you Mr DR GOBOTSWANG: Again he is saying BCP was Speaker. As we have been saying that these are sensitive formed in Palapye. He does not know anything. Were discussions in Parliament, they are also being recorded. you even there Honourable Healy? The coming generations must know what the truth was. When Honourable Healy says Botswana Congress Party HONOURABLE MEMBER: He was not even born. (BCP) was dead, he knows that BCP has never died. MR SPEAKER: Thank you very much Honourable Therefore, he is not telling the truth and you need to Member. Please switch off your microphone. In all guide him Mr Speaker. Thank you. fairness, Honourable Member for Gaborone Central MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! Honourable Members, was very correct, it is a figure of speech. We use it in I listened very attentively to Honourable Member for Setswana. He is just using a figure of speech. Honourable Sefhare–Ramokgonami. I think all you are doing is Member for Gaborone Central, please continue with correcting. There is no point of order on this statement. your debate. Honourable Member for Gaborone Central, please MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: Mr Speaker, hey! resume your debate. This promises to be interesting. Honourable Speaker… MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: Thank you Mr Speaker. When you say something is dead, it is a figure MR KEORAPETSE: On a point of procedure Mr of speech and it is up to you how you are looking at it. If Speaker. you have a situation where in a constituent assembly of HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Murmurs)… 57 Members, you can only return two Members, you are dead. There is no two ways about it. MR SPEAKER: Let us have order please so that we Let me bring to light the history of factions in this can hear others when they speak. country. In 1994, the Botswana Democratic Party MR KEORAPETSE: Mr Speaker, I know that in (BDP) and the Botswana National Front (BNF) went Federation of International Football Association (FIFA) for general elections. BNF came with 13 members. Regulations, patting the referee on the back is a very Afterwards, some within the BNF decided that they want serious offence. When you have a presiding officer to go against the promises they made to people during of the stature of the Speaker like your good self and elections. Botswana Congress Party (BCP) which has Honourable Healy is continuously patting you on the stolen 11 Members of Parliament from BNF was then back, I think you must read something. Be careful of formed in Palapye. They fought the Great Comrade Dr him. The Standing Orders allow that I can caution you. Shololo Koma who built the party and stole from him. Be very careful of him Honourable Speaker. Now when we went for the 1999 general elections… MR SPEAKER: Thank you very much Honourable DR GOBOTSWANG: Order Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, Member for Selebi Phikwe West. I still remember when I do not know what is wrong with Healy. He is saying we were at Boipuso, you had a Motion I took part in and things which he also knows are not true. He is saying we you really patted me on the back if that is the right word, stole Mr Koma’s party. The people that he is referring that was nice.

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MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: Thank you interests of Francistown residents. All this time, I have Honourable Speaker. While on Honourable Keorapetse’s never run away. I have been representing them and I issue, I believe it is very telling when you preside Mr never miss Parliament. Where did I run to? Where did Speaker that seats of Opposition bench are empty to the you miss me? extent that the bell should ring for long to show that they have bad intentions about you. That is the reason why MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! No, let us be serious Honourable Keorapetse stands up and says these things. Honourable Members. What Honourable Member for Let me… Gaborone Central means is, before his term under a certain party ticket came to an end, he left for another MR KEORAPETSE: Point of order Mr Speaker. party while still in Parliament. He is not referring to Honourable Healy is imputing improper motive. We do running away from Parliament. You understand him. We not have any bad intentions or idea about the Honourable all understand him. Let this not waste his time. Speaker. He is imputing improper motives on us. Today I do not know what is wrong with him. MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: Thank you presiding officer. Like Honourable Dr Unity Dow said, Batswana MR SPEAKER: Honourable Member, respect others. are the ones who raised this matter, not me. Batswana Please go ahead. are the ones who say, someone ran away with our vote. Now you will pardon me Honourable Member if you MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: Thank you do not like that Batswana are saying you ran away with Honourable Speaker. Leader of Opposition (LOO) their vote. welcome back. Like I said, BCP was formed in the aftermath of the split of… not even the split because Honourable Speaker, like I said, BCP came back with BNF continued being the machine that it is. In the one Member of Parliament; Mr Kavindama, may his aftermath of certain members of the BNF they left with soul rest in peace. BNF to prove that point, retained six the votes; during the 1994 elections, their names were Members of Parliament (MPs), to show that the people’s not appearing it was just BNF. They then took those confidence was in the party not the individuals. If we votes that people voted for BNF and ran away to form need a referendum, if ever there was a referendum, that their party on the side. It was 11 Members of Parliament is your referendum. (MPs) and over a 100 Councillors, a huge number. During the 1999 elections, the best they could do was It was not the first and last time because the same return one MP. If there is anybody who is looking for a thing pertained in 2014. People who had left Botswana referendum… Democratic Party (BDP) after the 2009 elections and some of them went to form Umbrella for Democratic MR MMOLOTSI: On a point of procedure Mr Speaker. Change (UDC), only Honourable Wynter Mmolotsi Mr Speaker, I think the House is being misled by the is back here. Your party leader Mr Ndaba Gaolathe Honourable Member. I do not know of any Member lost elections, Honourable MP that I am replacing, of Parliament who left Parliament with people’s votes. Honourable Dr Butale lost elections, there are many of All I know is, all Members of Parliament who left their them and you know them better than me. parties, they remained in Parliament representing their electorates. I do not know of anyone who ran away and HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification left Parliament when he or she was sent by people to Honourable Healy. represent them. Who is that? MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: Hold on, let me MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: Thank you very elaborate further sir, I will give you a chance Honourable much Mr Speaker. Honourable Wynter Mmolotsi, his Gobotswang. full name is Boipuso Wynter Mmolotsi. He ran away with BDP votes in 2009. He ran away with Umbrella Constitutional review sir, the BDP made a commitment for Democratic Change (UDC) votes in 2014. This to Batswana when going for 2019 elections saying, they Honourable Member is Wynter Boipuso Mmolotsi. are going to give them an opportunity to change the MR MMOLOTSI: On a point of procedure Mr Constitution; a comprehensive Constitutional review. Speaker. You are misleading the nation because I have That is what we have promised the people of this never run away. All the years that he has mentioned, country and we are going to deliver on that. We are still I have been a Member of Parliament representing the set on delivering that…

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HONOURABLE MEMBER: Clarification Honourable MR SPEAKER: Order! Order! Hold your debate Member, you said you will yield for me sir. right there Honourable Member of Gaborone Central, Standing Order 26.3 at this time empowers me to call MR SPEAKER: Yes, he mentioned that he is still upon His Honour the VP, Leader of the House to move elaborating his debate. a Motion of adjournment.

MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: I will yield for you MOTION Honourable Dr Gobotswang, do not worry. I want to talk about you just here and then I will give you a chance… ADJOURNMENT

MR SPEAKER: Stop poking others. LEADER OF THE HOUSE (MR TSOGWANE): Mr Speaker, let me firstly thank you for sitting on that chair MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: Yes sir. The Honourable Pono Moatlhodi. You are sitting there on the Constitutional review sir, we promised that but we premise of your capability and the trust that Batswana cannot have something so sensitive as a Constitutional have on you and we also believe in what they believe in. review when there is instability that can be created by Members of Parliament crossing back and forth across Having said that, let me take this opportunity to request parties. It is paramount for us to have this legislation this House to take a break, go and think about this law before we go into this thing which is so sensitive. so that you can change your opinions about it tomorrow. Constitution destroyed many countries, tribalism, Question put and agreed to. religious issues and many other things. We are going to cover those things when reviewing the Constitution. So The Assembly according adjourned at 6:05 p.m. until it is important to have peace and stability in this country. Tuesday 8th December, 2020 at 11:00 a.m. That is why we need this law, before we can even get to this most important Constitutional review. This is for stability more than anything else.

Honourable Tshere, you were saying strengthening of political parties, say, if there is ever an instrument that will strengthen political parties, it is this one. Honourable Advocate Duma Boko, we all know what he did for you guys. We know that he took you from completely finished to where you are now. What has been happening in the aftermath of the elections where he has been disregarded; he has just been on the side, this will remedy this situation. Now the party will be in control, the party leader will dictate terms to you because you were voted under the symbol of the party.

ASSISTANT MINISTER OF HEALTH AND WELLNESS (MR LELATISITSWE): Clarification. While still talking about what Advocate Gideon Boko did for them, you must thank Honourable Keorapetse because he is the only one who is still supporting Advocate Boko. I do not know what is happening to other members of BCP.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS: …(Laughter!)…

MR MANGWEGAPE-HEALY: Thank you Honourable. No, I think that is a well-known national thing, everyone in Botswana knows that the one true loyal member of the cause is Honourable Keorapetse...

34 Hansard No 200 HANSARD RECORDERS Mr. T. Gaodumelwe, Mr T. Monakwe, Ms T. Kebonang HANSARD REPORTERS Mr M. Buti, Ms Z. Molemi, Mr J. Samunzala, Ms N. Selebogo, Ms A. Ramadi, Ms D. Thibedi, Ms G. Baotsi, Ms N. Mokoka

HANSARD EDITORS Ms K. Nyanga, Ms C. Chonga, Mr K. Goeme, Ms G. Phatedi, Ms B. Malokwane, Mr A. Mokopakgosi, Ms O. Nkatswe, Ms G. Lekopanye, Ms T. Mokhure, Ms B. Ratshipa, Ms M. Madubeko

HANSARD TRANSLATORS Ms B. Ntisetsang, Ms M. Sekao, Ms B. Mosinyi, Ms V. Nkwane, Ms N. Kerobale, Ms K. Motswakhumo, Ms T. Motsau, Ms O. Phesodi, Mr K. Setswe

LAYOUT DESIGNERS Mr B. B. Khumanego, Mr D. T. Batshegi, Mr K. Rebaisakae

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