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DIGITAL COLLECTIONS ITEM TRANSCRIPT Mordko Brener. Full, unedited interview, 2009 ID UKR016.interview PERMALINK http://n2t.net/ark:/86084/b4r707 ITEM TYPE VIDEO ORIGINAL LANGUAGE RUSSIAN TABLE OF CONTENTS ITEM TRANSCRIPT ENGLISH TRANSLATION 2 CITATION & RIGHTS 10 2021 © BLAVATNIK ARCHIVE FOUNDATION PG 1/10 BLAVATNIKARCHIVE.ORG DIGITAL COLLECTIONS ITEM TRANSCRIPT Mordko Brener. Full, unedited interview, 2009 ID UKR016.interview PERMALINK http://n2t.net/ark:/86084/b4r707 ITEM TYPE VIDEO ORIGINAL LANGUAGE RUSSIAN TRANSCRIPT ENGLISH TRANSLATION —Today is May 26, 2009. We are in the city of Vinnitsa [Vinnytsya]. Please, introduce yourself; tell us where and when you were born. I am Mordko Yudkovich Brener. I was born in the town Yanov, Kalininsky District. Now this town is called the village of Ivanovo. Before the war, people lived very happily, were friendly with the Ukrainian people, raised their children. Suddenly this happiness was cut short. The Great Patriotic War began. —Who were your parents? My parents also lived first in Yanov, but when I graduated from Jewish school in 1936, I went to Vinnitsa to study at a pedagogical technical school to be a teacher. I liked this profession and the school accepted me. My mother loved me very much and said that she would not live there without Mikhail—I was called Mikhail, but according to the documentation I was Mordko—and they left for Vinnitsa in ’36. Since ’36, I have always lived in Vinnitsa. I graduated from technical school in 1939 and when I turned eighteen, the army drafted me. The Second World War had already begun at this time. I was called up to the 160th Battalion in the city of Strelna [Strel'na], which was preparing boat chauffeurs for the Finnish War. The Finnish War was taking place at the time. I was in this battalion for half a year, then they called on me because I had a secondary education. At the time, even some high-ranking officers lacked a secondary education. I was sent to study to be an aviator in Leningrad [St. Petersburg]. In 1940, I entered the Lenin Aviation Technical School in Leningrad. The head of the school—there were no generals then—was Army Commander Second Rank Sokolov- Sokolenok. I remember this well. We studied and became friends. There were students from Belorussia [Belarus], Ukraine, Russia, Kazakhstan—from all the republics of the Soviet Union. We hoped that we would graduate as lieutenants. We really liked the blue aviation uniforms. I even wrote home to my mom that soon I would arrive as an aviator-lieutenant. Everything was cut short in the beginning of 1941. There war had yet to begin but we could already smell the gunpowder. We graduated as sergeants instead of lieutenants. Not only aviation technicians, but in general all pilots who studied in flight schools, graduated as sergeants. I received a referral to Borovskoe Airfield in the Smolensk oblast in March of ’41. They settled us in a communal living space and I was assigned to Captain Gastello’s squadron. Gastello was the first Hero of the Soviet Union. Under his leadership, I served in his squadron as an aircraft mechanic. The war began on the 21st. We could not believe it. Smolensk Oblast is right on the border with Belorussia. We could not 2021 © BLAVATNIK ARCHIVE FOUNDATION PG 2/10 BLAVATNIKARCHIVE.ORG DIGITAL COLLECTIONS ITEM TRANSCRIPT Mordko Brener. Full, unedited interview, 2009 ID UKR016.interview PERMALINK http://n2t.net/ark:/86084/b4r707 ITEM TYPE VIDEO ORIGINAL LANGUAGE RUSSIAN believe that war had begun. However, already on the 22nd we felt that the war [had begun] and planes appeared over our airfield. We forgot about our dorm and were on guard duty all the time around our planes. We ate and slept there. I remember one moment, events at the beginning of the war, which for my entire life . When I was a school principal, I always told my students and teachers about Captain Gastello. This was a hero of our entire country, and we used him as an example to teach many people about love, patriotism, endurance . to never surrender. On June 24, 1941, a German scout suddenly appeared over our airfield. He made a low-level flight over our airfield, one lap. We, who had yet to be scorched by war, became frightened and fled where . there were trenches. At this time, Captain Gastello jumps out of his plane and heading toward us yells: “Stop! You are betraying the Motherland! March back, grab a weapon, and shoot.” Our squadron consisted of DB3F bombers. He sat down next to the bomber’s machine gun. When the scout flew by, he shot at it but missed, but when the scout made a second turn, he hit him and the plane fell into the hayfield. We ran to this hayfield to catch him. Women with pitchforks and scythes surrounded him. A military squad arrived and took him to division headquarters. The division commander was Colonel Borisov. He pointed to a stool for this giant redheaded German. He points: sit. No, [he replies,] show me which pioneer shot me down. He was an ace, there was a fox drawn on the plane—the most cunning ace, no one could shoot him down. He told the commander, in France, in Belgium, in Denmark, in Portugal, no one could shoot me down. Everywhere I flew, no one could beat me. And here some pioneer shot me down. They brought Captain Gastello. A manly face, black eyes, above-average height. This is who shot you down. I have remembered this incident for my entire life. I have brought up an entire generation of people based on this example by Gastello. Do not regret sacrificing your life in the name of your motherland. I always said: you do not get to choose your motherland or your parents. Therefore, you must give everything in order to protect your motherland. This was on June 24. After two days, our squadron received an assignment. The Germans were rushing toward Moscow. After Brest, they were moving toward Moscow. First, they had to take Smolensk and then it was a direct road to Moscow. They could not be permitted to reach Smolensk. A column of petrol tanker trucks was formed not far from Smolensk. Gastello received the assignment to bomb this column of trucks. We had a rule that when our planes flew away on missions, we did not leave the airfield, and we waited for them until they arrived. Some planes fly back after being hit. He left on the 26th, and we waited, waited—nothing. His wife and son were waiting for him to return. He did not come back. As it turned out, he dropped his bombs, but some trucks managed to drive away. Gastello’s plane was hit and caught fire. He could have made it to the airfield and landed, but he knew that these petrol tanker trucks would supply tanks with gasoline and he decided to give his life in order to not let these trucks pass. He crashed his burning plane into these trucks. They all caught fire and he died. Colonel Borisov arrived at the airport and reported that Gastello had performed a heroic feat, he gave his life for the sake of his motherland, and was awarded the title Hero of the Soviet Union. 2021 © BLAVATNIK ARCHIVE FOUNDATION PG 3/10 BLAVATNIKARCHIVE.ORG DIGITAL COLLECTIONS ITEM TRANSCRIPT Mordko Brener. Full, unedited interview, 2009 ID UKR016.interview PERMALINK http://n2t.net/ark:/86084/b4r707 ITEM TYPE VIDEO ORIGINAL LANGUAGE RUSSIAN Then we were transferred from the Western Front to the Southwestern Front. We ourselves, the Soviet Union, Stalin [seemed to do everything] so that the Germans would attack us. They would not have been prepared if they did not feel that Stalin would fall into any trap. The ’39 non-aggression agreement untied Hitler’s hands so he could attack the Soviet Union. Their planes were better equipped with weapons. Our people are spirited, but we did not have weapons. We had to stop the Germans with our bare hands. Later, thanks to Marshal Zhukov, who was victorious in all his operations, we stood up and began to win. Our bomber regiment lasted a month. All the planes were destroyed, and we were all transferred to a ground-attack regiment on the Stalingrad Front. — This is already in ’42? This is ’42. We arrived at the Stalingrad Front when the Germans were already advancing on Stalingrad [Volgograd]. We no longer had a regiment of long-range bombers but a Shturmovik air-attack regiment. They had bombs and a gunner/radio operator who sat in the second cabin in the back. We flew to defend Stalingrad from this airfield. My plane, which I was the mechanic for, was damaged, but it fell on the border between our troops and the Germans. The regiment flew away and the commander told me: “This is your plane. Stay with the armorer, remove the weapons from the plane and try to evacuate it so that it does not fall into enemy hands.” I remained with the armorer for a month. We removed the weapons and helped take the plane to the station near Lake Ilmen. —At what point did our weaponry become better? The weapons were Russian; although Stalin had concluded an agreement with the Americans . I can honestly say to Roosevelt’s great merit that he treated the Soviet Union very sensibly. A coalition was created: America, England and the Soviet Union. I wrote an article: “Why the War Began,” and I wrote there that already in the early days Stalin asked Americans and the British for 400 tons of copper, this much gasoline, this many planes, and the Americans and the British helped.