Vol. 205 Tuesday, No. 6 2 November 2010

DÍOSPÓIREACHTAÍ PARLAIMINTE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

SEANAD ÉIREANN

TUAIRISC OIFIGIÚIL—Neamhcheartaithe (OFFICIAL REPORT—Unrevised)

Tuesday, 2 November 2010.

Business of Seanad ………………………………351 Order of Business …………………………………351 : Motion ………………………………369 Adjournment Matters: Drug Treatment Services ……………………………394 Radiotherapy Services ……………………………400 SEANAD ÉIREANN

————

Dé Máirt, 2 Samhain 2010. Tuesday, 2 November 2010.

————

Chuaigh an i gceannas ar 2.30 p.m.

————

Paidir.

Prayer.

————

Business of Seanad An Cathaoirleach: I have received notice from Senator James Carroll that, on the motion for the Adjournment of the House today, he proposes to raise the following matter:

The need for the Minister for Community, Equality and Affairs to clarify the allocation of resources for tackling the drugs problem in the north-east counties of Louth, Meath, Cavan and Monaghan and how it compares nationally.

I have also received notice from Senator of the following matter:

The need for the Minister for Community, Equality and Gaeltacht Affairs to outline the Government plans to tackle the growing number of heroin users.

I have also received notice from Senator Brian Ó Domhnaill of the following matter:

The need for the Minister for Health and Children to provide an update on the proposed north-west radiotherapy centre at Altnagelvin Hospital, Derry.

I have also received notice from Senator of the following matter:

The need for the Minister for Tourism, Culture and Sport to ensure Ireland signs up to the Council of Europe enlarged partial agreement on sport.

I regard the matters raised by the Senators as suitable for discussion on the Adjournment. I have selected the matters raised by Senators Carroll, Buttimer and Ó Domhnaill and they will be taken at the conclusion of business. Senator Keaveney may give notice on another day of the matter she wishes to raise.

Order of Business Senator : The Order of Business is No. 1, motion re report of the Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Sport, Community, Equality and Gaeltacht Affairs entitled, 20 Year Strategy on the Irish Language 2010–2030, to be taken at the conclusion of the Order of Busi- ness and conclude not later than 6.45 p.m., if not previously concluded, on which spokespersons may speak for 12 minutes and all other Senators for eight minutes and Senators may share time, by agreement of the House, with the Minister to be called upon ten minutes before the conclusion of the debate for closing comments. 351 Order of 2 November 2010. Business

Senator Frances Fitzgerald: I again note that the schedule for this week does not feature legislation. Will legislation be available to the House before the Christmas break? Does the Government intend to introduce any? The cost of borrowing for Ireland continues to increase and has reached record highs again today. As the Deputy Leader is aware, there is a sense of great uncertainty internationally as far as Ireland is concerned. The country features in the headlines in today’s edition of the Financial Times and many other news items focus on uncertainty about us. This uncertainty has been fed by the resignation of Deputy Jim McDaid who in his letter of recognition states that where the Government has made decisions, it has invariably pursued the path of least resistance, focusing on what is politically possible rather than what is economically necessary.

An Cathaoirleach: A decision taken by a Member of the other House is not relevant to the Order of Business.

Senator Frances Fitzgerald: It has been repeatedly pointed out in this Chamber that the Seanad must discuss the difficult decisions that will be made. In that regard and in the light of recent publicity concerning third level registration fees, has the Government taken a decision on the matter? Will the Deputy Leader inform the House what is the ’s position on the issue of registration fees? The issue of a referendum on children’s rights has been raised again. I was astonished last week to hear the Minister of State with responsibility for children, Deputy Barry Andrews, state that if the referendum had been passed and the constitutional amendment made, it would not have been relevant to the case discussed last week. I fundamentally disagree with his view. It is impossible to state retrospectively whether passing a referendum and enshrining children’s rights in the Constitution would have affected practice. The Minister of State’s comments on the issue were unacceptable. Is the Government serious about holding a referendum on children’s rights? With the key decisions due to be taken in the next few weeks, the possibility of bringing forward the budget has been mooted. The vacuum that has been created regarding the budget has left people concerned, fearful, upset and unsure of how to plan their household budgets. Has the Government considered bringing forward the date of the budget to deal with the grave uncertainty affecting individuals and families?

Senator Joe O’Toole: I have bored the House in recent weeks by referring daily to the Croke Park agreement and the lack of political traction in making it work. I compliment the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Harney, on being the first Minister to give political traction to it. This issue must be closely scrutinised. I have listened to people who have criticised the agreement and suggest it cannot work, will not bring savings or efficiencies and will not happen. I listened to Deputies Noonan and Burton state correctly after they had emerged from the Department of Finance last week that nothing had been saved under the agreement thus far. It appears as though one Minister has come up with a plan to reduce numbers in the public service by up to 5,000 that will result in savings of €200 million or more a year. The agreement should deliver €1 billion in savings a year and reduce public sector numbers by approximately 20,000. The proposal made would go one quarter of the way towards achieving this. However, if people can only find problems in response to it, we are going nowhere. If politicians cannot discern that this is the road forward, there is no basis for them to seek the levers of power. Moreover, those who think it takes four weeks to make a decision should not be allowed to vote. It seems clear that this is something that must be done. Certain measures must be taken. The HSE should put in place an advice line to provide advice and support on a number of issues, including taxation, social welfare and pension arrangements. It should also arrange to 352 Order of 2 November 2010. Business hold retirement seminars and similar stuff. Such a mechanism must be put in place in order that people will have all of the facts available to them. However, I ask colleagues to think about this point. When one hears about the problems this will create, it points to what is required under the Croke Park agreement, namely, flexibility and mobility, as well as financial and quality control. These are the measures that must be taken and they must and will be delivered in the current financial year. That was the thinking from the outset and this proposal would take us one quarter of the way. However, if politicians consider this to be too much, we are going nowhere. It is also a response to those who talk about the Croke Park agreement as something from which we should walk away. If it is done properly, it can deliver savings of €1 billion a year, as well as efficiencies and a reduction in numbers. It can be done voluntarily with the support of all the partners involved. It would be ironic were we to get that far with all of the people involved, yet at the same time fail to get political support for it. I want to hear what other Departments have to offer at this point. Members must support this measure rather than find problems with it. While, of course, there will be difficulties, this is the way forward.

Senator Dominic Hannigan: No Member would condone what happened yesterday to the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Harney, despite their views on her performance in her role.

Senator David Norris: Hear, hear.

Senator : Hear, hear.

Senator Dominic Hannigan: It is not a valid form of protest. This is a democracy and people will have a chance to show their contempt for the Government at the ballot box. The resig- nation this morning of the former Minister, Deputy McDaid, is a sure sign, with four by- elections now outstanding, that the Government is coming apart at the seams. It is interesting that the Deputy Leader is taking the Order of Business because it is being reported in the newspapers that his party is being pushed into accepting an increase in student registration fees of almost 60% or €20 a week. This will push many students out of college and onto the dole. The coalition is also at odds on matters such as climate change legislation, despite the Deputy Leader’s assurance that the House would see such legislation. Moreover, although Members have also received assurances regarding legislation to hold the Dublin mayoral election, as a previous speaker noted, there is no such legislation on the Order Paper again this week. How long can the Green Party hang in there when it is clear that it is being pushed around and not delivering on its agenda? As Independent Members are also getting very nervy, there are clear signs the Government is coming apart at the seams. This cannot come soon enough because this morning the rate for Ireland’s bond yields rose to more than 7.2%; the difference between Ireland’s bond yields and those of Germany is now almost 5%. Clearly, the international markets have no confidence in the Government. Confi- dence must be restored and the only way to do this is through the provision of a fresh mandate, which would require a general election. I speak to many people, including tradesmen, farmers and teachers, in my native county of Meath, all of whom have nothing but contempt for the Government. They are angry with it and frustrated, but rather than take action by throwing buckets of paint over some hapless and ineffectual Minister, they must do so at the ballot box. This should happen soon.

Senator Cecilia Keaveney: I agree no progress is made, particularly by a public representa- tive, in throwing paint over anyone. If that is the level at which local democracy is being exercised, it is a very bad reflection on the whole electoral process. 353 Order of 2 November 2010. Business

[Senator Cecilia Keaveney.]

It is interesting to note the rush to calling for a general election, while we do not see pro- posals on the table. What would others offer that would be so much better, directed better or guaranteed to save us from the IMF and other bodies with which we are being threatened? With regard to the Croke Park agreement, it has taken much co-operation to get us to this point. It is important that those who signed up to the agreement realise to what they have signed up. We, the Members of these Houses, will have to make difficult decisions in the next number of months, but they have made difficult decisions, too, and must stand over them. Rather than sit on the fence and talk out of both sides of their mouths, they must stand over what they have agreed to. There are many examples of where that is not happening. I ask for another debate on road safety, as we head towards the darker winter nights. I have been talking about the dangers posed by pedal bicycles that are not lit and traffic islands that need reflective cat’s eyes to make them visible. These are simple measures that would save lives during the winter. It is important, therefore, that we have a debate on the matter. When one raises it with the National Roads Authority, one is told it is the responsibility of local authorities which state it is the responsibility of the Road Safety Authority which authority sends one off around the circuit again. I mention the tragedy that occurred in my constituency in the last 48 hours and ask others to join us in our prayers that the body of the person missing will be recovered. That would bring closure to what is a very sad case.

Senator Paul Coghlan: I do not wish to refer to the Deputy McDaid letter which is in the public domain.

An Cathaoirleach: What is the Senator after doing?

Senator Paul Coghlan: What am I after doing?

An Cathaoirleach: I would prefer if the Senator did not refer to it.

Senator Paul Coghlan: Vis-à-vis what Senator Fitzgerald said, the letter is in the public domain and Deputy McDaid refers to matters of public importance. Last Thursday morning I asked the Deputy Leader to explain why the budget could not be brought forward and he gave me an answer. I wonder if he will give me the same answer today. I support what Senator Fitzgerald said in that regard. There will be a vacuum and a lack of certainty. We know what the bond yield levels are and need to bring them down. As I said last Thursday, the forthcoming budget will be an integral part of a four year plan and decisions will already have been made on it. Why delay further and allow a vacuum and uncertainty to continue when so much is dependent on what will be contained in the budget? It should be brought forward, for the sake of the country. I will be interested to hear the Deputy Leader’s reply today. Over the weekend we were disturbed to be reminded by one of the Sunday newspapers of the frightful accounting and banking scandal involving the loan of €7.4 billion given by Irish Life & Permanent to Anglo Irish Bank in 2008. The former chief executive of Anglo Irish Bank, Mr. Denis Casey, is alleging that the Financial Regulator, the Central Bank and the Department of Finance were aware of the loan in advance and that there was a certain conniv- ance among them. Their attitude was, “Let us wear the green jersey, lads, because we are all playing on the one team and doing very well.” There is now an allegation that the chairman of Anglo Irish Bank was asked to stay on to assist politically. I would like to hear what the Deputy Leader has to say on this matter which needs to be cleared up. It is a huge scandal which, 354 Order of 2 November 2010. Business presumably, is still under investigation by the Garda. I would like to hear the Deputy Leader’s appraisal of the matter.

Senator : I support what Senator O’Toole said. Like him, I completely bought into the Croke Park agreement, on which we had a wonderful debate in this Chamber. I stand with him in complimenting the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Harney, on the blueprint she has given to every Department, either before the budget or immediately after it. Every single Member of the Seanad has sought reform of the HSE. Before its establishment, we sought reform of the old health boards. We have all been critical at one stage or another of how the health boards operated. When the HSE came into play, the staff were just trans- ferred over and there was no reduction in numbers. Now, when we have a very good blueprint to be more lenient with that staff and to pare it back, people are pouring cold water on it. It is not a compulsory scheme, it is optional. People can opt into it or not go near it. It is an excellent scheme and one that we, as Members of the , should promote and encourage. With regard to one of Senator Coghlan’s points, we all read the Sunday and daily newspapers. There is a lot of scaremongering, untruth, innuendo and rumour being peddled in the newspapers.

Senator Paul Coghlan: There is a serious Garda investigation.

Senator Jerry Buttimer: It is all a mirage.

Senator Geraldine Feeney: I ask that more thought would be put in by journalists. I have the height of respect for journalists and they must play their role and be responsible in what they are doing. These are difficult times.

Senator David Norris: These are serious and difficult times and we have to try to face them in the most constructive way possible. It is not helped by the fact the level of political discourse in this country has reached a very significant low. There is no respect that I can see for any person connected with politics. I listened to Deputy Michael Noonan being interviewed on “Morning Ireland” just a few days ago. I was horrified by the way in which he was barracked, interrupted and abused. This is a senior former Minister and someone who will probably occupy a very important position. That level of discourtesy is inappropriate. It is time we reintroduced some measure of courtesy into our political discussions, if for nothing else than to respect the people who elected our representatives. It is partly this kind of debasing of political debate that has led to these extreme incidents, such as the appalling example of the Minister, Deputy Mary Harney, being attacked with red paint. People could be blinded by that. I remember that eggs were thrown at people during the last election. There was a case in the past year where a person lost the sight of one eye through an egg being thrown. An egg may appear quite a silly thing but it can do a fair amount of damage. This is completely wrong. While I happen to disagree with the Minister, Deputy Harney, on a number of issues and I have made this plain, that is the level at which it should be maintained. It is surprising it has taken this long to discover there was excess administrative capacity in the HSE. This will have to be addressed very carefully and managed properly or it will backfire. Let us at least show some degree of courtesy in our public discourse. The other matter I wish to raise is the extraordinary fact of the contradictory items contained in many of the newspapers. The Irish Examiner reports that a significant academic report has demonstrated that alcohol is a more damaging drug than either heroin or crack cocaine but 355 Order of 2 November 2010. Business

[Senator David Norris.] the same page carries a call from the drinks industry to drop tax by 20% and abolish VAT. I do not know from where these people are coming. These kinds of contradictions should be exposed in debate in this House.

Senator Fiona O’Malley: I concur with Senator Norris’s point on levels of courtesy. It has come to a sorry pass that people are treated so discourteously. I read in one of the newspapers that a person intended to throw everyone from the door when the election was called. This is terrible. If people stand for office, they deserve a level of respect. What is the difference between a person who stood and was elected and one who is choosing to stand for the first time? We need to help bring a level of courtesy. People need to think about what they are doing when they damn all politicians in the same way. On that subject, I am not one bit surprised that Deputy McDaid is retiring. In this game, you are damned if you do, and damned if you do not. I was very interested in what Senator O’Toole had to say about the Croke Park agreement.

An Cathaoirleach: I do not want a discussion on anyone retiring.

Senator Fiona O’Malley: It is one of the most critical matters we are facing. Everyone in this House has stood up to say there are far too many in management in the health service and that we need to streamline it. Contrary to what Senator Hannigan believes, we have a dynamic Minister. If any of us has quarter the opportunity she has had to serve this country, and if any of us does quarter of what she has done, he or she will have a proud reputation to hold on to.

Senator Dominic Hannigan: She has not delivered.

An Cathaoirleach: There are to be no interruptions.

Senator Fiona O’Malley: The Minister has decided to move swiftly on the question of the Croke Park agreement. While I am sure the Minister’s schedule is tight, I am sure she has been negotiating with the unions behind the scenes on achieving change for many long months. Change is here at last. I ask the unions and employees to outline what the Croke Park agree- ment means to them and how it can deliver a modern, adaptable service that will safeguard front-line services. We are all watching with interest to see how this happens.

Senator : Like my colleagues, I strongly condemn what happened yesterday to the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Harney. The biggest wonder about it is not the actual event but, unfortunately, that it has taken so long to happen. We acknowledge time and again in this House the desperate state of the economy. Let us consider what the bond markets are saying today. Colleagues have already touched on the fact that the bond yields have increased beyond 7%. Today the financial markets believe there is a chance of approxi- mately 40% that Ireland will default on its debt next year. Those are the figures. The fear within the financial markets is felt to the bones by the people we serve. We talk of the need for politicians to be respected. We are in circumstances in which the political system, and the Government in particular, must regain respect. It must do so in two ways. First, the budget the Government is considering should be brought forward. If the markets do not have time to understand what the budget is and how it fits in with an overall strategy, there is a greater chance of it being misinterpreted and of there being no calm deliber- ation thereon. We would then end up in a perilous place in January. The second way involves the entire political system. While I know responsibility sits with the Government, I believe that if any Member on this side of the House says he or she is against 356 Order of 2 November 2010. Business something, he or she will have to state what he or she would do differently. We will have to do this because the problems will not go away. If there is a new Government in place tomorrow, a fresh mandate, of itself, will not solve the difficulties we are in. There must be clear willingness to say what will be done differently. Otherwise we will add to the problem rather than take away from it.

Senator : Will the Deputy Leader invite the Minister to the House to discuss the tendering process which seems to militate against small businesses and manufacturers? I refer also to education. Senator Donohoe stated a change of Government would not bring a change of policy. I listened to an interview with Deputy Quinn of the 3o’clock yesterday. He was asked five times to state his party’s policies on education. He was asked if the party would increase the registration fee but he did not say whether he would. All he said was: “Put us in power and we will see what happens.” That is basically all he said. If one wants to check the tapes, one may do so.

Senator Dominic Hannigan: We will be publishing our manifesto.

Senator Mark Daly: Apparently the Labour Party will but it will only——

(Interruptions).

Senator Dominic Hannigan: The Senator should name a date.

An Cathaoirleach: There should be no interruptions. Members must ask questions of the Deputy Leader.

Senator Mark Daly: What beggars belief is that the Labour Party is asking people to trust it. We will have a debate on the Labour Party’s education policy if the Leader allows it because the party does not seem to have one other than saying: “Trust us; give us enough seats and we will see what happens.” There needs to be a debate on third level education.

Senator Dominic Hannigan: We will be publishing it. The Senator should not worry.

Senator : Who has been in government for the past 13 years?

An Cathaoirleach: Please, no interruptions.

Senator Mark Daly: If Senator Bacik would like to give us the Labour Party’s policy on education——

Senator Dominic Hannigan: Is the Senator addressing the Chair or us?

Senator Mark Daly: I am just asking whether the Labour Party would raise the registration fee.

An Cathaoirleach: Members should speak through the Chair and ask questions of the Deputy Leader.

Senator Mark Daly: Senator Bacik is interrupting me.

Senator Dominic Hannigan: If Senator Daly is seeking a debate, we will be happy to respond.

An Cathaoirleach: No interruptions, please. Questions to the Deputy Leader.

Senator Mark Daly: Would the Labour Party increase education registration fees? 357 Order of 2 November 2010. Business

An Cathaoirleach: The Senator should not address his remarks across the floor.

Senator Ivana Bacik: Call an election and let us see.

Senator Mark Daly: Is that a “Yes” or a “No”?

An Cathaoirleach: There should be no interruptions.

Senator Dominic Hannigan: Senator Daly should tell us when the Government is going to go to the country and we will publish our manifesto.

An Cathaoirleach: Senator Hannigan should not interrupt. Senator Daly should put a ques- tion to the Deputy Leader. He should not be concerned with regard to what happened on the radio last evening.

Senator Mark Daly: The Senators opposite are putting questions to me and I am entitled to——

An Cathaoirleach: The Senator is not entitled to do anything. He should put a question to the Deputy Leader. In any event, the Senator’s time is exhausted.

Senator Mark Daly: If those opposite had not interrupted me, my time would not be exhausted.

Senator Jerry Buttimer: Reeling in the years.

Senator Ivana Bacik: The Senator was addressing questions to us.

Senator Mark Daly: And those questions have still not been answered.

Senator Dominic Hannigan: There is supposed to be a certain level of decorum in the House and Standing Orders apply.

An Cathaoirleach: I call Senator Prendergast. Senator Daly’s time is up.

Senator Mark Daly: My final point relates to the attack on the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Harney.

An Cathaoirleach: The Senator may not raise that matter. He should have made his point when he first stood to contribute.

Senator Mark Daly: Members of the media are making excuses in respect of such attacks and this is contributing to the problem.

An Cathaoirleach: The Senator should resume his seat.

Senator Jerry Buttimer: He should also respect the Chair.

Senator : Since I became a Member of Seanad Éireann, I have raised the subject of the number of administrative staff within the HSE on many occasions. It is good that there is going to be a reduction in that number. However, the timeframe of 17 days in which people will be obliged to make a decision on such an important issue is extremely short. There is an element of suspicion with regard to why this process must be completed with such haste. We do not have exact figures in respect of how many administrative staff are actually employed by the HSE. The figure tends to vary from two for every one member of front-line 358 Order of 2 November 2010. Business staff to seven for every such member of staff. There is a need for a very real evaluation with regard to the actual number of administrative staff within the HSE. It will be important to ensure that an element of corporate memory is retained in areas where there is a large take-up in respect of the early retirement and voluntary redundancy schemes. We cannot allow there to be deficiencies in respect of services, particularly in instances where vacant positions will not be filled. People will have 17 days in which to reach a decision and then a further couple of weeks will be devoted to evaluating the process. It is simply not feasible that this can all be done within the month of December. I do not agree with what happened in respect of the Minister for Health and Children yesterday. I do not believe offering a protest in the way we witnessed yesterday would be acceptable in any civilised society. However, the Minister came before the House on numerous occasions to take statements in respect of the HSE and she never referred to the fact this major element of reform was on the cards. She never discussed this matter or put out feelers in respect of it. Neither has she given people who work in the health service time to consider what is about to happen. The drip feeding of information relating to budgets, borrowing levels and the dire straits in which we find ourselves is very similar to the time limit that is being given to people in order that they might make life-changing decisions. The amount of time being provided is simply not adequate. While I fully support the Croke Park agreement, a realistic timeframe must be provided in order that a proper debate might take place.

Senator James Carroll: I wish to request a debate on the subject of reducing VAT as a stimulus measure. I am particularly interested in the reduction of VAT to 5% in respect of energy upgrades, repairs, maintenance and improvements to private dwellings. A move such as that to which I refer is allowable under the sixth EU VAT directive. There would be five benefits to a move of this nature, namely, it would lead to the creation of jobs, a reduction in domestic fuel bills, stimulate activity in the construction sector, be of assistance in tackling the black economy and — I know the Deputy Leader will be in agreement with regard to this aspect — enable the Government achieve its targets in respect of reducing carbon emissions. I submitted my proposals in respect of this matter to the Minister for Finance, Deputy Brian Lenihan, this morning, and to the Cabinet, this afternoon, in order that it might be debated. I accept there is a back-and-forth element to discussions in this Chamber but there is no doubt that Members must put forward specific ideas and stimulus measures for the forthcoming budget. I hope the Deputy Leader will take on board my request for an urgent debate on this matter.

Senator : Those of us who come from a business background are always sur- prised with regard to the length of time it takes for the Government and the public sector to move. The Croke Park agreement came into being approximately five months ago. In such circumstances, it seems that a long time passed before the Minister for Health and Children made her announcement to the effect that numbers in the HSE are to be reduced by 5,000. I wish to correct Senator Prendergast who stated that people would only have 17 days in which to make a decision. I understand that, overall, there will be a period of 30 days in respect of the acceptance of applications. A huge number of jobs in the public sector could be removed from the system. In that context, one need only consider the number of quangos that are in existence. Sir Philip Green was appointed by the British Prime Minister to carry out a review of government spending and procurement. He said he could save £20 billion with the number of quangos he would reduce. There is a need for us to grab hold of things. A sense of urgency is needed, as is a sense that we are going to move on it and can do it. Senator Fitzgerald was correct. The sooner we get 359 Order of 2 November 2010. Business

[Senator Feargal Quinn.] decisions such as the budget, the better. I do not know if it is possible to move the budget any earlier, but the sooner we can do it, the better. I have a concern that if there was an election, the longer it was delayed the more questions would arise as to the policies of those who will be elected. I would love to hear the Labour Party policy and to hear it say what it will do because there will be more doubt the longer the question is not answered.

Senator Dominic Hannigan: Our leader was very clear last week.

An Cathaoirleach: No interruptions.

Senator Feargal Quinn: We have not heard——

Senator Dominic Hannigan: I can send the Senator the document.

Senator Feargal Quinn: There is a sense of urgency, not just at Government level but also in Opposition. That should happen. I was delighted to see a proposal that the cruise ships coming to Dublin should come in to the centre of the city or further up the river. It is a smashing idea. I was in Cobh quite a lot and 53 cruise ships came into it last year. They come into the centre of the town and passengers can step off into it. The cruise ships which come to Dublin are stuck outside, far beyond the toll bridge. It is possible to bring them in. There may be a vested interest in asking whether they can be brought into a particular location, but it would mean that tourists on those cruise ships could come into the city. That is something that does not cost money. We can and should move on it immediately.

Senator Mary M. White: With 1 million people over the age of 65 now living on the island of Ireland, there are challenges and opportunities. The fact that we are living much longer is a cause for celebration, a tribute to human progress, better diet, better housing standards and a better standard of living and to the genius of medical science. Older people today — I speak to the Gallery — are more active——

An Cathaoirleach: The Senator should speak through the Chair and ask questions of the Deputy Leader.

Senator Mary M. White: Older people today are more active, healthier and have greater ambitions and desires than any previous generation.

Senator Jerry Buttimer: Well said.

Senator Mary M. White: It is my pleasure to draw the attention of the House to an article in The Irish Times today——

An Cathaoirleach: There is to be no display of newspapers.

Senator Mary M. White: ——-by Martin Donnellan, retired Assistant Garda Commissioner, entitled “We all too often fail to see the benefits that come with experience”. Senator Feeney spoke about 5,000 people being given the choice of optional retirement in the HSE. I once again call for people to have choice and not be forced into retirement at 65 years of age. It is a denial of the human rights of older people that they do not have a choice. As I have said many times in this Chamber, in my document, A New Approach to Ageing and Ageism, I have 28 recommendations which spell out the ambitions and the way we should treat older people. I would like to read recommendation 28. 360 Order of 2 November 2010. Business

An Cathaoirleach: Is the Senator looking for a debate on that again?

Senator Mary M. White: It recommends that the Oireachtas should introduce and pass legis- lation that will enshrine the rights and entitlements of older people into law in a manner similar to the Older Americans Act of 1965.

Senator Jerry Buttimer: I join Senator O’Toole in welcoming the decision of the Government to introduce a voluntary redundancy scheme in the HSE. I remind Senator O’Malley that the Government is making it up as it goes along. The Government has been in place for 13 years and has shrunk from and funked every opportunity to have real reform of the public service. I ask the Deputy Leader to send a message today to the CPSU that the half hour allocated for banking should be done away with and let it get into the real world. We are all in this together but that type of propaganda does not do us any good. I ask the Deputy Leader whether the Minister, Deputy Harney, will come to the House to make a statement on her proposal? As a proud public service advocate, it is important that she enshrines in the new deal that there will not be redeployment back into the scheme and that people who take the redundancy package cannot be redeployed in the HSE or elsewhere. Let us have real reform in the public service. It is important we protect the jobs which are there because, as I said before in the House, we should not have the public versus private war which certain Members of this House want to have. I also ask that we examine the possibility of bringing the budget forward. There will be an interregnum between the publication of the four-year strategy and the budget and if you listen to the commentary today on every radio programme and read every newspaper, despite what Senator Feeney believes, the people are afraid. They are in trepidation. They are also incan- descent with rage. They blame everyone, the Government in particular which has been asleep for 13 years and which has made a monumental mistake in this country. That said, it is important to reassure not only the markets but also our people and give them hope and opti- mism. The people do not see it from Deputy McDaid today, nor from the Government and nor from the benches opposite.

Senator Marc MacSharry: I support and commend Senator Carroll on his proposal into which he has put a great deal of work. It is innovative and creative and is the kind of issue to which everyone in this House should be dedicated at present. It is thoughtful in the context that one rarely seeks — certainly, the Department of Finance is nervous about it — to reduce VAT as a means of stimulus. Senator Carroll has shown through his research, however, that with the use of the Sixth EU VAT Directive, such a measure is permissible and has proven in other countries to create employment, not least in helping our environment in terms of retrofitting many buildings. It would give adequate stimulus. I ask the Deputy Leader to make time avail- able in order that we can discuss the merits of it as a matter of urgency. Another proposal which I have made to this House in recent times in the context of forth- coming actions in trying to deal with the economic crisis was to see whether the Government could introduce a change in order that the Irish Government bond yield rather than the German yield curve would be the valuation benchmark for Irish pensions. Currently, pension funds are required to use German bond yields when calculating the minimum funding standard or current valuation of future liabilities of pensions. This development would bring two benefits. First, it would create additional demand for Irish bonds from Irish pension funds. As Members may be aware, less than 15% of Irish debt is owned by Irish sources. Second, it would improve the solvency of specific funds by enabling them to discount their future liabilities at the higher Irish bond rates rather than the lower German bond rates. Reports in recent weeks state this could increase demand for Irish debt 361 Order of 2 November 2010. Business

[Senator Marc MacSharry.] and Irish bonds by up to €10 billion and, as anyone who has seen the yields this morning at up to 7.3% will testify, we certainly need that in this country. At 15%, the amount of debt owned by Irish institutional interests is very low. In Spain, it is expected to be 90% at the end of the year. Rather than being ultra-conservative as it so often is, the Department of Finance needs to follow the industry and the calls of others, including myself and other Members of this House, and take the appropriate action in this regard.

Senator : I support the call to have the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Harney, come into the House in order that we can congratulate her on her dignity yesterday without a “but” at the end of the sentence.

Senator David Norris: Hear, hear.

Senator Eoghan Harris: I congratulate the Minister for Health and Children in bringing in the first set of real reforms to the public sector. I understand what Senator O’Toole is saying but I must say some of the unions are stretching the credibility of the Croke Park deal to a great extent. First, SIPTU’s demonstration on Monday night last in Letterkenny to protect the local hospital does not argue that they are in the business of structural reform which they will be required to do under Croke Park. As for the public sector unions which are putting question marks over the Minister’s pro- posed reforms, let me give them a reality check. After the last budget, public sector workers on €35,000 a year saw their salaries reduced by 4.17%. By contrast the private sector workers in the same period on €35,000 a year saw their salaries reduced by 61.7% if they were made redundant. A public sector worker on €75,000 a year had his or her salary reduced by over 4% . Private sector workers, on the same salary of €75,000, thrown out of work would see their salary reduced by 78%, and they do not have pensions. When Senator Buttimer speaks about Members in this House fomenting trouble between the public and private sectors, the facts provide the trouble. It is like when one condemns the Provos in Northern Ireland one is not contributing to the peace process. The facts show that there are very fat public sector workers and very poor private sector workers without pensions, and that is the reality.

Senator Jerry Buttimer: There is the reverse as well.

Senator Eoghan Harris: We should not have to beg managers who have no work to do in the public sector to reform and to move on. When there are 400,000 people out of work, are we seriously expected to pay workers to move from one secure job to another in the public service, to pay teachers to accept an authentic performance management system and an exit process to move incompetent teachers out of the system, to pay psychiatric nurses to move from Victorian hospitals to modern health care systems and to compensate air traffic controllers for doing a job with the flexibility long ago given by the private sector? In other words, does the private sector not have a right to demand a reality check from the public sector?

Senator : I support the suggestion made by Senator MacSharry on the excellent document prepared and submitted to the Government by Senator Carroll. I support calls to have a debate on it next week in advance of the budget. It is an extremely well worked out document, the kernel of which is a proposal to reduce the VAT rate to 5% on the reconstruc- tion of houses. There is approximately €100 billion in savings, some of which could be released into the system to upgrade the quality of houses. A reduction in the VAT rate to 5% would generate an enormous amount of building work. I compliment the Green Party and the Mini- ster, Deputy Ryan, on the insulation of houses which has been an extremely successful cam- 362 Order of 2 November 2010. Business paign which has resulted in the creation of jobs. This is a very worthwhile proposal which should be teased out in the House. Rewiring is required in numerous houses as what is in place dates back to the 1950s and 1960s; in fact, some houses are in a dangerous condition. If the proposal was adopted by the Government it would create more funds. It would be worthwhile to have a debate in the House on the university sector. As far as I can see, most lecturers spend more time appearing on RTE and Newstalk programmes than they do in lecture chambers. It is time we looked at this. I understand the children of all university staff can avail of free fees. Perhaps Senator Bacik can confirm this.

Senator Ivana Bacik: Everyone can avail of free fees.

Senator Terry Leyden: Is it true or false——

Senator Ivana Bacik: Everyone can avail of free fees.

Senator Dominic Hannigan: It is the registration fee that is the problem.

Senator Terry Leyden: ——that family members can avail of free fees and have had a good time for a very long time? It is about time that——

Senator Dominic Hannigan: There are no fees. We abolished fees when we were in govern- ment last time.

An Cathaoirleach: Members, please.

Senator Dominic Hannigan: It is a registration charge.

Senator Terry Leyden: Do they pay that, too?

Senator : I agree with the overall approach adopted by my colleagues, Senators O’Toole and Donohoe, to the announcement made yesterday by the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Harney, and the budgetary difficulties facing the Government and the coun- try. I certainly welcome what was announced yesterday. We all wish it happened earlier and that reform had commenced sooner. However, to use a cliché, we are where we are and I hope what the Minister for Health and Children has commenced in her Department will spread to other Departments and that the same level of flexibility and innovation which she is seeking can be entertained throughout the public sector. There is a formula under the Croke Park agreement and it is one my party fully supported from early on. The agreement provides for sensible and manageable reductions in numbers throughout the public sector. Without it hap- pening in the very near future, the country will be declared economically bankrupt. We have to listen to what the bond markets and financial markets are stating. As late as today, there is not sufficient confidence in economic policy, or perhaps political policy from the Government or even the body politic, and it is virtually impossible now for Ireland to borrow the resources it needs. Last week I pointed out that on 1 January or thereabouts the country would require a borrowing figure of almost €19 billion to allow it to be run and man- aged next year. Unless the politics and economics are corrected before 1 January, we will not get the money we need. We are almost at the edge of the cliff. Senator Donohoe is correct to state politicians must show realistic leadership. We have a few weeks to turn around the ship of State.

Senator Ivana Bacik: It is rather flattering that so many Senators, including Senators Daly and Quinn, are so anxious to know the content of the Labour Party’s policies on various matters. 363 Order of 2 November 2010. Business

(Interruptions).

An Cathaoirleach: Questions to the Deputy Leader, please.

Senator Ivana Bacik: I invite them to join us in developing policy. I have membership forms——

Senator Mark Daly: The Senator has no policy on registration fees. She does not know her own policy——

Senator Ivana Bacik: ——to join the Labour Party for anyone who wants them.

An Cathaoirleach: Questions to the Deputy Leader, please.

Senator Mark Daly: The Senator should ask Deputy Quinn who would be delighted to hear her policies.

Senator Ivana Bacik: I also wish to refer colleagues to the content——

(Interruptions).

An Cathaoirleach: Members, please.

Senator Ivana Bacik: ——of a speech made by the Labour Party leader, Deputy Gilmore, last week in the Dáil.

An Cathaoirleach: I ask Members to refrain from interrupting.

Senator Ivana Bacik: Thank you, a Chathaoirligh. Senators should read Deputy Gilmore’s speech in which he set out clearly the parameters of the Labour Party’s economic policy and that in the budget we would favour a 50:50 split between taxation and revenue raising measures and cuts in spending. It is ironic that Senators are looking for the Labour Party policy on education when, even after 13 years in government, Fianna Fáil’s policy on education is still not clear. We need clarity across all education sectors on the extent of the cuts to be imposed. I, therefore, ask the Deputy Leader for a debate because it is extremely difficult for those involved in the university, primary and secondary school sectors to plan ahead.

Senator Mark Daly: The Senator does not know what her own party’s policy on registration fees is.

An Cathaoirleach: I will ask the Senator to leave the Chamber if he continues to interrupt.

Senator Ivana Bacik: I know it is open season on university lecturers and that it is very easy to attack. However, if we are serious about building a knowledge economy and attracting foreign direct investment and non-EU students who pay high fees, we need to support the university and third level sector.

Senator Terry Leyden: Spend more time in the lecture theatre——

An Cathaoirleach: Please, Senator, no interruptions.

Senator Terry Leyden: I apologise. 364 Order of 2 November 2010. Business

Senator Ivana Bacik: I ask for a debate on the issue of choice in primary school education, a matter on which the Labour Party has a very clear policy, unlike other parties which have done nothing to ensure diversity of patronage across the sector. There will be a group of parents and children outside the gates of Leinster House tomorrow whose protest will take the form of a children’s parade calling for multidenominational school places to be made available.

Senator Nicky McFadden: I commend the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Harney, for the way in which she continued with her duties yesterday, despite having been treated so discourteously. I abhor such action. It is outrageous that people stoop so low. I also welcome the fact that she has put in place a plan to seek 4,000 voluntary redundancies which I hope will be taken up. However, the timescale is very short to allow people to make up their minds. I wonder, however, why it took the Minister so long. At the eleventh hour she is giving people 17 days in which to make up their minds. I worry about the state of the health service when such a measure is introduced so quickly. While I welcome the Minister’s initiative and think she is right, I worry about how it is to be implemented. A report by HIQA was issued today on St. Vincent’s care centre in Athlone. Such reports by HIQA are to be welcomed. However, it has destroyed the quality of the service provided and the morale of the nursing and care staff in St. Vincent’s care centre in Athlone. When asked, all of the patients complimented the staff, saying they were being very well cared for and that both nutrition and the level of care provided were very good. Nurses in the centre are run off their feet because they are expected to complete bureaucratic forms morning, noon and night. I question the reason nursing staff face such a predicament when the role of the nurses is to care and spend time with the elderly patients. I, therefore, question the value of HIQA. We never again want to see another case similar to the one at Leas Cross, but it is outrageous that nurses and care staff are expected to do such work.

Senator : I refer to media comments over the weekend about third level registration fees. The Green Party has prided itself for some time on being the party of edu- cation in government. We are led to believe it is not willing to support an increase in the registration fee to €3,000 but that it is willing to support an increase to €2,500. I ask the Deputy Leader to state whether this is correct. I am someone who benefited from free third level fees as I do not come from a privileged background. The imposition of such high registration fees is the reintroduction of tuition fees by the back door. There is no doubt that for families of modest means this will be an impediment to students going on to third level education. The proposal, which has been in the public domain for 12 months, is that when people qualify and get a job, they will be in a position to pay back some of the cost of their education. Currently, we have a system where we educate people to a very high standard in our third level institutions but we export them all over the world and there is no return for the State from the investment it makes and that is most unsatisfactory. Something highlighted to me a couple of weeks ago by students was the similarities between the University of Edinburgh and University College Dublin. They are very similar in terms of size and yet in UCD, the percentage of the budget spent on salaries and pensions is 72% compared with 34% or 35% in the University of Edinburgh which is a shocking difference between universities that deal with largely the same number of students. There is something wrong there. Before we look at imposing huge increases in registration fees, which will mean people from modest backgrounds will not go on to third level education, we should look at reducing that 72% figure. I agree wholeheartedly with Senator Quinn’s point on quangos. Senator Donohoe raised the issue of the budget earlier. When publishing its four year strategy later this month, the Govern- ment should look at the possibility of bringing forward budget day to give, as Senator O’Toole 365 Order of 2 November 2010. Business

[Senator John Paul Phelan.] has said on numerous occasions, certainty to people who are anxious about what will be con- tained in it but who want some degree of hope and leadership for the future.

Senator Dan Boyle: Senator Fitzgerald asked several questions which were followed through by other Senators. She asked about the lack of legislation on our weekly clár. It is a matter of ongoing concern that we cannot free up legislation but I am confident we will be able to do so in the next number of weeks. We have two Bills on our Order Paper due for Committee Stage, namely, the Ombudsman (Amendment) Bill 2008 and the Coroners Bill 2007. The Bills require amendments to be brought forward by the Department of Finance and the Department of Justice and Law Reform, both of which are entertained on other matters currently. Major legislation will go through the other House in the next week or so and I am confident they will come before this House in a matter of weeks, one of which is the Dublin Lord Mayor Bill 2010, about which Senator Hannigan inquired. Second Stage of that Bill will be debated in the other House this week. The other Bill is the Immigration, Residence and Protection Bill 2010 which is going through Committee Stage in the other House. They are both major Bills which I expect to see very soon in this House. Senator Fitzgerald also spoke about the economic and political uncertainty caused by other events and the decisions of other people. As the Cathaoirleach pointed out, it is not our place to talk about how the other House runs and its future. Such decisions are disappointing in that we have very difficult decisions to make. As Senator Donohoe said, at a time when we require level heads and a certain amount of moral courage, that requires people being present when those decisions must be made. I hope when those decisions are made that we have that type of moral courage required. Senators Fitzgerald, Coghlan, Donohoe and Bradford mentioned budget day. As of now, budget day has been pencilled in for 7 December but a definitive decision has not been made as to whether that will be the date or whether it needs to be brought forward. Obviously, the Government will take into account how it must react to international sentiment. In terms of moving the date too far forward, we do not want to see a repeat of what happened with a budget which was brought forward precipitously and was not the budget it should have been. That happened only a few years ago. We must be very cautious with this budget above all others. I ask for a certain amount of patience on Members’ part in that regard. Senators Fitzgerald, Hannigan, Phelan and Bacik asked about the likely increase in the student registration fee. The choices to be made in this set of Estimates and the budget in seeking additional income and curbing expenditure in all Departments will be difficult. I am bemused by the attention the registration fee issue is receiving. The registration fee has been in place for several years and increased year on year, including last year. The equation of registration fees with tuition fees is very far off the mark.

Senator Dominic Hannigan: There is to be a 60% increase in the registration fee.

An Cathaoirleach: The Deputy Leader is replying to the questions asked.

Senator Dan Boyle: In 1980 I was offered a place in University College Cork to undertake an arts degree. I did not qualify for grants and the fee for the course was IR£3,000. Thirty years on if people believe the registration fee is anywhere close to the economic value of a course tuition fee, they are not living in the real world. There is heavy subsidisation of third level education. That must be the focus of the debate on this matter.

Senator Dominic Hannigan: Is the proposed 60% increase fair? 366 Order of 2 November 2010. Business

Senator Dan Boyle: It would help if the Senator’s party had a view on whether we should have registration fees.

Senators: Hear, hear.

Senator Dominic Hannigan: We have a policy that the Deputy Leader can see. We can give it to him.

An Cathaoirleach: No interruptions, please.

Senator Dan Boyle: It is welcome that we will have a debate on education in general, includ- ing third level and primary, in the coming weeks during which such views can be expressed. Senator Fitzgerald also spoke about the proposed referendum on children’s rights. We had a debate on the report released last week. To be fair to the Minister of State, he made a relatively definitive comment on the matter when he said the holding of such a referendum was closer than it had ever been. I do not take that comment as being negative.

Senator Joe O’Toole: It is a philosophical one.

An Cathaoirleach: No interruptions, please. Please allow the Deputy Leader to continue without interruption.

Senator Dan Boyle: The necessary work must and will be done to allow a referendum to be held early in the new year. We should all dedicate ourselves to that task. Senator O’Toole raised the issue of the Croke Park agreement and the HSE redundancy package offered, on which Senators Feeney, Norris, Harris and Buttimer followed up. Some Members have questioned why the HSE redundancy package is to be implemented in such a short timeframe. Having a narrow window is necessary as we have had a poor experience of open-ended voluntary redundancy packages. We need to know how many are interested in the package offered and what savings can be made on foot of it in the quickest possible time. We need a slimmed down and more effective — especially a more cost effective — health service and this is a move in the right direction. In general, Members have welcomed the redundancy package. On a related matter, Senators Hannigan, Keaveney, Norris, O’Malley, Donohoe and Harris spoke about the unwarranted attack on the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Harney, yesterday. I add my voice to theirs. It is particularly sad that it was a local public representative who was involved in a protest of this nature. Those of us who are privileged to be involved in public life, whether at local or national level, need to know we have a mandate to honour and that mandate can only be honoured through the force of argument in seeking to bring about change. An inane stunt that had all the sincerity of a teenage prank did nothing to further any policy goal. It is welcome that Members have chosen unanimously to condemn the action. Senator Hannigan asked about climate change legislation. Both he and Senator Bacik should be pleased to note that we will debate the report of the Joint Committee on Climate Change and Energy Security this week when a definitive statement will be made on the state of the Government’s Bill. I look forward to the Senators and others contributing to the debate on Thursday. Senator Hannigan also raised the issue of bond yields, as did Senators Donohoe, Coghlan and Bradford. The question stems from uncertainty. Those who crave a general election before a four-year programme is agreed and the budget is introduced in December risk adding to that uncertainty. In a general election political parties may gain a political advantage. The two 367 Order of 2 November 2010. Business

[Senator Dan Boyle.] parties to which I refer which do not hold a common position on public sector reform, taxation and where and how we can curb public expenditure would do nothing to give certainty to the——

Senator Dominic Hannigan: What happened in the case of the Deputy Leader’s party and Fianna Fáil four years ago? They managed to do a deal.

Senator : What mandate did Fianna Fáil have before the last general election?

Senator Dan Boyle: My party leader has been involved in a process in which he has pointed to the need for clarity and cohesion on a four-year programme and in the upcoming budget. After that, anything should be open to political discussion. However, given the point we, as a country, are at and the decisions we have to make, cohesion, consistency and honesty are required from all those involved in public life. It saddens me that at this vital time some individuals and political parties want to make political capital.

Senator Jerry Buttimer: What has the Deputy Leader’s party done during the past four years when it has been in government?

An Cathaoirleach: No interruptions, please.

Senator Dan Boyle: Senator Keaveney raised the matter of road safety which warrants a further debate in the House. This has generally been a successful years in terms of a reduction in the number of road deaths. However, I note with sadness that in my local area of Cork, of which Senator Buttimer will be aware, there have been too many accidents recently. A debate on the matter might point to where the strategy is working and where it needs to be further refined. Senator Keaveney asked about the action to be taken in the light of the fishing boat tragedy in . All Members share her views. Senator Coghlan raised a number of issues related to the ongoing banking scandals. The work of a tribunal into these matters, headed by a former secretary general of the finance Department in Finland, Mr. Nyberg, is ongoing. The House should welcome a recent statement by the Garda Commissioner that by the end of the year he expects a file to be passed to the Director of Public Prosecutions and action to be taken on many of the matters raised. All Members agree that there is a need to identify those who have committed acts of economic treason against the country.

Senator Paul Coghlan: What about the cosy relationship——

Senator Dan Boyle: It is not the case that those in opposition have moral superiority. I can say categorically on the basis of my party being in government that there is a belief this is something that must happen.

Senator Paul Coghlan: We are still waiting to see it happen.

Senator Dan Boyle: We will await the findings of the tribunal and the Director of the Public Prosecutions. I am confident that action can and will be taken in this regard. Senator Daly spoke about job creation and the tendering process. There is a commitment in this regard in the programme for Government. We are awaiting a report on green tendering which will help matters in respect of the businesses about which Senator Daly spoke, small and 368 Irish Language: 2 November 2010. Motion medium-sized enterprises, and to clear unnecessary blockages in the system. I look forward to our having a debate on the report when it becomes available. Senator Carroll, backed by Senators MacSharry and Leyden, spoke about a proposal to reduce the VAT rate for retrofitting. It is certainly an interesting one. If an EU directive allows it to happen, it is something that should receive active consideration. There has been a difficulty about zero rating, or moving from one VAT rate to another, or creating new VAT rates. The House might benefit from having a debate on the proposal made by Senator Carroll. Senator Quinn talked about the need to eliminate quangos, the number of which must at least be reduced. This must form an important part of the budget when presented to both Houses. Senator Mary White has reminded us that there are 1 million people over the age of 60 years on the island. The structure of policy must be informed by how we should deal with not only that number but the increasing number of who will reach that age in the decades to come. Those who find themselves in that age category should not be viewed, as happened in the past, as a burden but a real resource. Senator MacSharry talked about linking Irish pension funds with an Irish yields benchmark. This proposal has value, but I hope there will not be a vested interest in keeping the yields particularly high because it is something we want to reduce in as short a time as possible. I believe I have covered all of the points raised but, if not, I will try to address any matters I have overlooked by other means.

Senator Nicky McFadden: I referred to HIQA.

Senator Dan Boyle: Yes, the Senator referred to a report in Athlone. I accept the position she has taken and believe there would be value in having a debate on HIQA, particularly as the organisation recently took a difficult decision on a nursing home in County Offaly. It would be valuable to discuss the effectiveness of HIQA and the improvement in standards we all hope its inspections and actions are bringing about.

Order of Business agreed to.

Irish Language: Motion Senator Labhrás Ó Murchú: I move:

That Seanad Éireann notes the Report of the Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Sport, Community, Equality and Gaeltacht Affairs entitled ‘20 Year Strategy on the Irish Language 2010–2030’ which was laid before Seanad Éireann on 28 July, 2010.

Minister for Community, Equality and Gaeltacht Affairs (Pat Carey): Ba mhaith liom buíochas a ghlacadh leis an Seanad as ucht deis a thabhairt dom labhairt ar an ábhar tábhacht- ach seo. Creideann na páirtithe sa Rialtas go bhfuil sé thar a bheith tábhachtach go mbeadh pobal labhartha láidir Gaeilge agus Gaeltachta againn chun saibhreas oidhreacht na teanga a choiméad beo agus a thabhairt slán don chéad ghlúin eile. Beidh an straitéis 20 bliain don Ghaeilge lárnach má táimid chun é seo a dhéanamh. Beidh tacaíocht na bpáirtithe ar fad san Oireachtas lárnach san iarracht seo. Is cúis dóchais dom an tacaíocht traspháirtí atá faighte ag an straitéis go dtí seo. Aithnítear go h-idirnáisiúnta an fiúntas a bhaineann le h-éagsúlacht teangacha. Is iad teanga- cha na príomhuirlisí atá ag daoine le smaointe, mothúcháin, eolas, cuimhní agus luachanna a chur in iúl. Tá an rólfíorthábhachtach atá ag teanga, ó thaobh oidhreacht bheo a chur in iúl agus a chur ar aghaidh, aitheanta le fada. Braitheann beocht agus beatha oidhreacht chultúrtha 369 Irish Language: 2 November 2010. Motion

[Pat Carey.] ar theanga. Caithfear mar sin, ó thaobh éagsúlacht cultúr ar fud an domhain, teangacha ar nós an Ghaeilge a chosaint agus a chur chun cinn. Is é sin an dualgas atá orainn. Tuairiscíonn UNESCO go bhfuil leath de na 6,700 teanga a labhraítear faoi láthair i gcontúirt dul i léig roimh dheireadh an chéid. Ní féidir stop a chur leis an bpróiseas seo ach trí ghníomh práinne ó Rialtais agus ó na pobail a labhraíonn na teangacha. Cé go bhfuil an Ghaeilge ar cheann de na teangacha atá i gcontúirt, is fiú ará go bhfuil stádas na Gaeilge feabhsaithe le tamall de bharr an méid a bhfuil déanta ag an Rialtas chun tacú léi. Roimh a labhraím faoin straitéis 20 bliain, is fiú féachaint ar an méid atá bainte amach roimhe seo. Is léir go bhfuil go leor rudaí tábhachtacha bainte amach i dtaobh na Gaeilge le blianta anuas. I measc na buaicphointí abhí ann don teanga sna blianta atá thart, tá bunú agus bláthú Raidió na Gaeltachta agus TG4; achtú Acht na dTeangacha Oifigiúla 2003; bunú Oifig an Choimisinéara Teanga, Údarás na Gaeltachta agus Foras na Gaeilge; an t-aitheantas a tugadh don Ghaeilge faoi Chomhaontú Aoine an Chéasta i dTuaisceart Éireann; an t-aitheantas oifigiúil oibre a baineadh amach don Ghaeilge san Eoraip; agus bunú Acadamh na hOllscolaí- ochta Gaeilge. Má bhaineann an straitéis 20 bliain don Ghaeilge leis an aimsir atá amach romhainn, baine- ann go leor eile de thionscnaimh an Rialtais i leith na Gaeilge leis an aimsir láithreach. Is é Acht na dTeangacha Oifigiúla 2003, atá ar an saol le beagnach seacht mbliana, ar cheann de na cinn is tábhachtaí díobh sin. Leagann an Bhunreacht síos gurb í an Ghaeilge an teanga náisiúnta. Is í céad teanga oifigiúil an Stáit í.Isé an aidhm atá leis an Acht ná struchtúra leagan síos chun feabhas a chur ar sheirbhísí poiblí trí Ghaeilge sa ghearrthéarma, sa mheánté- arma agus san fhadtéarma. Tá an tAcht ann le go bhféadfar dualgais an Stáit a chomhlíonadh agus go ndéanfar dul chun cinn le himeacht ama i gcomhthéacs na n-acmhainní atá ar fáil. Tá sé i gceist go mbainfí amach spriocanna an Achta go príomha trí scéimeanna teanga a aontaítear idir an Aire Gnóthaí Pobail, Comhionnanais agus Gaeltachta agus comhlachtaí poiblí aonair. Is cáipéis phleanála reachtúil é gach scéim teanga. Bíonn tréimhse trí bliana aige. Bíonn sé le h-athnuachan nuair a bhíonn an tréimhse sin istigh. Go dáta, tá 105 céad scéim teanga a chlú- daíonn os cionn 190 comhlacht poiblí, daingnithe ag an Aire agus foilsithe, chomh maith le 26 dara scéim teanga. Ina theannta sin, tá 26 céad scéim teanga agus 57 dara scéim teanga eile á bplé leis na comhlachtaí poiblí.Tá súil agam go mbeidh siad daingnithe agus foilsithe a luaithe agus is féidir. I Meitheamh na bliana 2005, chinn Comhairle na nAirí an Aontais Eorpaigh go mbeadh stádas mar theanga oifigiúil oibre de chuid an Aontais ag an nGaeilge. Tháinig an cinneadh seo i bhfeidhm i dtús 2007. Baineadh amach an stádas seo don Ghaeilge tar éis fheachtais láidir ón Rialtas a raibh tacaíocht aige ó na páirtithe uile i nDáil Éireann agus ó eagraíochtaí Gaeilge mar Chonradh na Gaeilge, Comhdháil Náisiúnta na Gaeilge agus Stádas. Tá an Rialtas ag obair le Coimisiúin na hEorpa chun a chinntiú go mbeidh acmhainní ar fáil chun freastal ar an stádas atá ag an teanga. Tá ciste ar leith bunaithe ag an Roinn Gnóthaí Pobail, Comhionnnanais agus Gaeltachta chun maoiniú a chur ar fáil le haghaidh sain-chúrsaí tríú leibhéal Gaeilge. Cinnteo- idh na sain-chúrsaí seo go mbeidh dóthain ateangairí, aistritheoirí agus dlíodóirí-teangairí ar fáil chun freastal a dhéanamh ar riachtanais an Aontais ó thaobh na Gaeilge de. Bunaíodh Acadamh na hOllscolaíochta Gaeilge le cúnamh ón Roinn chun soláthar oidea- chais tríú leibhéal trí mheán na Gaeilge a chur ar fáil. Tá struchtúr curtha ar fáil ag an acadamh chun forbairt a dhéanamh ar staidéar ag an tríú leibhéal trí mheán na Gaeilge ar bhealach comhtháite. Cuireann obair an acadaimh le cumas na hollscoile chun cur lena clár acadúil le, mar shampla, cúrsaí aistriúcháin agus cúrsaí na meáin chumarsáide chomh maith le raon leathan cúrsaí eile, ó dioplóma go leibhéal máistreachta. Tá na cúrsaí ar fáil ar bhonn lánaimseartha nó ar bhonn páirtaimseartha do mhic léinn thraidisiúnta agus neamhthraidisiúnta. Tá cuid mhór 370 Irish Language: 2 November 2010. Motion de chláir trí mheán na Gaeilge san ollscoil á reachtáil i dtimpeallacht labhratha Gaeilge ag campais na Gaeltachta i nGaillimh agus i nDún na nGall. Tacaíonn an cur chuige seo le forbairt pobail i gceantair Ghaeltachta, chomh maith le cabhrú le caomhnú agus neartú na Gaeilge. Tá ról ar leith ag Fiontar, Ollscoil Chathair Bhaile Átha Cliath, ó thaobh ollscoilíocht trí Ghaeilge a chur chun cinn chomh maith. Tá dhá thogra ar leith ar siúl ag Fiontar i gcomhair le mo Roinn — bunachar logainm na tíre, www.logainm.ie, agus an obair atá idir láimhe chun tearmaíocht an AE a aistriú go Gaeilge mar áis d’aistritheoirí na Gaeilge. Creideann an Rialtas go bhfuil tábhacht ar leith ag baint leis an nGaeilge do phobal, do shochaí, do chultúr agus do gheilleagar na hÉireann. Dá réir sin, foilsíodh ráiteas an Rialtais i leith na Gaeilge ag deireadh 2006, inar gealladh go gcuirfí straitéis 20 bliain don Ghaeilge i dtoll a chéile, bunaithe ar 13 cuspóir ar leith a chlúdaíonn nithe ar nós an Acht teanga, cúrsaí oideachais, tacaíocht speisialta do thuismitheoirí agus don Ghaeltacht agus mar sin de. Trídan ráiteas seo, dearbhaíonn an Rialtas a tacaíocht d’fhorbairt agus do chaomhnú na Gaeilge agus na Gaeltachta. Ba é seo an chéad uair gur cuireadh amach ráiteas dá leithead le beagnach 40 bliain. Chreid an Rialtas go mba cheart ráiteas soiléir a dhéanamh maidir le haidhmeanna an Rialtais agus polasaí an Rialtais mar chrann taca d’aon pholasaí Gaeilge amach anseo. Sa ráiteas, leagadh síos go soiléir an bhunchloch ar a bhfuil polasaí Gaeilge an Rialtais bunaithe. Ba mhinic a bhí sé le cloisint roimhe seo nach raibh aon straitéis nó plean fadtéarmach náisiúnta ann don Ghaeilge agus nach raibh aon fhís ag leibhéal Rialtais maidir le forbairt na Gaeilge don ghlúin atá amach romhainn. Is chun dul i ngleic leis an dúshlán sin gur chinn an Rialtas gur cheart straitéis 20 bliain a fhorbairt. Is é atá sa dréachtstraitéis ná plean gníomhartha, nó léarscáil bóthair, don Ghaeilge don 20 bliain atá amach romhainn. Beifear ag díriú ar an bpleanáil fhadtéarmach don Ghaeilge a theastaíonn ag an leibhéal náisiúnta le cinntiú go mbainfear amach an ollsprioc — go mbeidh Gaeilge á labhairt go laethúil ag 250,000 duine faoi cheann 20 bliain. Tá an straitéis seo ag iarraidh tógáil ar an obair atá déanta agus na haidhmeanna atá luaite trí phlean cuimhsitheach comhtháite a leagan amach le leas a dhéanamh don teanga agus don Ghaeltacht as seo go ceann 20 bliain. Creideann an Rialtas go mbaineann tábhacht faoi leith leis an nGaeilge do mhuintir, do shochaí agus do chultúrnahÉireann. Mar theanga labhartha pobail, is leis an tír seo amháin a bhaineann an Ghaeilge. Tá fíorthábhacht mar sin léi ó thaobh fhéiniúlacht mhuin- tir na hÉireann agus ó thaobh oidhreacht an domhain. Tá mórchuid oibre déanta le tamall anuas i bhforbairt an plean straitéiseach 20 bliain don Ghaeilge. Mar bhonntaca leis an straitéis, déanadh anailís ar an an staid ina bhfuil an Ghaeilge faoi láthair. Meitheal de chomhairleoirí idirnáisiúnta, a bhfuil saineolas acu ó thaobh cheisteanna teanga, a rinne an anailís seo faoi stiúir na gcomhairleoiríóFiontar agus ar iarratas ón Roinn. Ó thaobh na Gaeltachta, tá aird ar leith tugtha sa dréachtstraitéis ar na moltaí a rinneadh sa staidéar cuimsitheach teangeolaíoch ar úsáid na Gaeilge sa Ghaeltacht, a rinne acadamh na hollscolaíochta i nGaillimh. Bhain cuid mhór don réiteach don straitéis le dul i gcomhairle leis an bpobal. Eagraíodh cruinnithe ar fud na tíre chun deis a thabhairt do dhaoine a dtuairimí a thabhairt. Bhí suirbhé ar-líne dóibh siúd nach raibh ar a gcumas freastal. Chuaigh na comhairleoírí i dteagmháil le na príomhgheallsealbhóirí freisin. Mar thoradh ar an gcomhairliúchán, eisíodh plépháipéar agus tugadh deis don bpobal aiseolas a thabhairt i dtaobh na gceisteanna tábhachtacha a bhí ardai- the. Comhthreomhar le seo, bunaíodh coiste Rialtais, ar a bhfuil an Taoiseach mar chathaoirle- ach, chun próiseas ullmhúchán na straitéise a stiúradh. Tá cúram ar an gcoiste Rialtais chomh maith scrúdú adhéanamh ar na saincheisteanna a tháinig chun cinn i gcomhthéacs na hanailíse agus na moltaí abhí déanta sa staidéar teangeolaíoch ar úsáid na Gaeilge sa Ghaeltacht. Thug an staidéar léargas ar úsáid na Gaeilge sa Ghaeltacht sa lá atá inniu ann. Leagadh cúram ar an gcoiste teacht ar chomhaontú maidir le plean gníomhaíochta comhtháite chun todhchaí na Gaeilge mar theanga phobail sa Ghaeltacht a chinntiú. 371 Irish Language: 2 November 2010. Motion

[Pat Carey.]

Ar 11 Samhain 2009, d’aontaigh an coiste Rialtais gur cheart an dréachtstraitéis a chur ar aghaidh chuig an Comhchoiste um Ghnóthaí Turasóireachta, Cultúir, Spóirt, Pobail, Comhion- annais agus Gaeltachta le tuilleadh comhairle a lorg agus moltaí adhéanamh roimh cheadú agus fhoilsiú na straitéise go foirmiúil. Bhí cruinnithe ag an gcomhchoiste le páirtithe leasmhara, cruinniú amháin sa Ghaeltacht ina measc. I ndiaidh na gcruinnithe seo, d’aontaigh an comhchoiste aighneacht le 39 moladh inti. Fuarthas moltaí an chomhchoiste ar an 28 lúil 2010 agus faoi láthair táthar á mbreithniú ag an Roinn Gnóthaí Pobail, Comhionannais agus Gaeltachta i gcomhair le Ranna ábharacha eile. Ba mhaith liom buíochas a ghlacadh leis an Seanadóir Ó Murchú abhí mar Chathaoirleach ar an bhfo-choiste a rinne cuid mhaith oibre. Gabhaim buíochas freisin le baill eile an coiste — an Cathaoirleach, an Teachta Tomás Ó Ceit, ina measc — as ucht a ndúthracht agus a gcuid oibre ar an tuarascáil maidir leis an ndréachtstraitéis. Dúirt an Cathaoirleach ina thuairisc go bhfuil an straitéis ar cheann de na céimeanna is suntasaí i bpleanáil teanga an Stáit le 90 bliain agus go mba onóir dóibh tabhairt faoin obair. Thugadar deis do líon mhór eagrais agus daoine aonair a bhfuil suim acu i gca- omhnú agus i bhforbairt na teanga a gcuid tuairimí a thabhairt. Tugadh cuireadh do ghrúpaí agus daoine aonair ó na Gaeltachtaíéagsúla, chomh maith le gach páirt eile don tír, dul i ngleic leis na ceisteanna a ardaíodh maidir leis an gcur chuige is fearr le tabhairt faoi na dúshláin atá romhainn i dtaobh na teanga. Scrúdaíodar na haighneachtaí a rinneadh agus chuir siad a moltaí le chéile bunaithe ar na haighneachtaí sin. Dúirt an Cathaoirleach freisin gur ábhar dóchais don todhchaí an tacaíocht traspháirtí don tuarascáil. Táimid ag súil mar thoradh ar an straitéis go mbeidh polasaí soiléir cuimsitheach ag an Rialtas a chuimseoidh gach réimse den saol do na blianta amach romhainn agus go mbeidh tacaíocht iomlán aige ó na páirtithe éagsúla. Sa tuairisc a chuir an comhchoiste ar fáil, dúradh gurb í an cheist is práinníóthaobh todhchaí na Gaeilge ná ceist na nGaeltachta. Tugann Gaeltacht láidir cosaint don Ghaeilge ar fud na tíre trí fhoinse teanga agus timpeallacht nádúrtha chumarsáide a sholáthar. Ar an gcaoi céanna, braitheann todhchaí na Gaeltachta ar phobal níos leithne de chainteoirí Gaeilge. Tugann an Ghaeltacht agus an chuid eile den tír tacaíocht dá chéile. Tá said ag brath ar a chéile agus cothaíonn said a chéile. Deireann an seanfhocal, “Is ar scáth a chéile a mhaireann na daoine”, ach sa chás seo is ar scáth a chéile a shlánófar an teanga. Tá sé aitheanta sa tuarascáil go bhfuil róllárnach ag na heagrais dheonacha na Gaeilge i gcosaint agus i gcothú na Gaeilge. Is cuid lárnach de thodhchaí na teanga iad agus beidh rath na straitéise ag brath ar thacaíocht na n- eagrais seo. Tá moltaí láidir déanta ag an gcomhchoiste faoi earnáil an oideachais, go háirithe má tá an sprioc de 250,000 cainteoirí laethúil faoi cheann 20 bliain le baint amach. Baineann na moltaí le gnéithe éagsúla ar nós an curaclam, gaelscoileanna agus scoileanna Gaeltachta, idirdhealú a dhéanamh idir cainteoirí Gaeilge, cothú na Gaeilge i saol na hollscoile, an tumo- 4o’clock ideachas agus oiliúint mhúinteoirí na Gaeilge. Tá an oideachas mar cheann de na hábhair is mó atháinig chun cinn sa phróiseas comhairliúcháin. Tá mo Roinn i gcomhráití leis an Roinn Oideachais agus Scileanna maidir leis na moltaí sin. Aithnítear sna moltaí a rinne an comhchoiste an róltábhachtach atá ag coláistí samhradh, ceann do na scéime- anna is tábhachtaí atááriaradh ag an Roinn Gnóthaí Pobail, Comhionnais agus Gaeltachta. I mbliana, d’fhreastal beagnach 25,000 foghlaimeoirí ar chúrsaíéagsúla ar fud na Gaeltachta. Taispeánann na figiúirí seo go bhfuil an-suim i bhfoghlaim na Gaeilge i measc dhéagóirí na tíre. Cabhraíonn na coláistí Gaeilge leis an nGaeilge a chur chun cinn — ní h-amháin sa Ghael- tacht ach ar fud na tíre chomh maith. Tá na coláistí an-thábhachtach, ní hamháin ó thaobh na Gaeilge ach freisin ó thaobh na heacnamaíochta sna ceantair éagsúla ina bhfuil siad lonnaithe. Is tionscail ann fhéin iad na 372 Irish Language: 2 November 2010. Motion coláistí, a chuireann saothrú maith ar fáil do na mná tí i rith an tsamhraidh in ainneoin na géarchéime airgeadais. Tá na moltaíéagsúla atá déanta sa tuarascáil á mbreithniú faoi láthair agus táthar ag súil leis an gcuid seo den obair a thabhairt chun críche a luaithe agus is féidir. Nuair atá an obair sin déanta, beidh an dréacht dheiridh den straitéis á thabhairt ós comhair an Chomhchoiste Rialtais agus, ina dhiaidh sin, ós comhair an Rialtais féin. Tá beartaithe go mbeidh an chéad chruinniú eile den comhchoiste á thionólaran17ú Samhain 2010 ar mhaithe le dréacht dheiridh a aontú roimh an straitéis a chur faoi bhráid an Rialtais go foirmiúil agus, tar éis cead an Rialtais, í a fhoilsiú. Cé go bhfuil an Rialtas lán-thiomanta gach ar féidir linn a dhéanamh chun an Ghaeilge a chaomnhú agus a chur chun cinn, tá todhchaí na teanga ag brath go príomha ar na daoine. Tá a fhios againn go ginearálta go bhfuil tromlach na ndaoine, idir dhaoine a labhraíonn agus nach labhraíonn Gaeilge, dearfach i leith na teanga. Tá orainn timpeallacht a chruthú a spreagann daoine agus a thugann muiníndóibh a gcuid Gaeilge a úsáid, pé leibhéal atá acu. Tá sé riachtan- ach go n-úsáidfeadh daoine le Gaeilge an teanga nuair atá an deis acu agus tá sé riachtanach go ndéanfadh daoine í a cur ar aghaidh chuig a bpáistí. Tabharfaidh an Straitéis 20 Bliain don Ghaeilge 2010-2030 an spreagadh agus an rogha do dhaoine é sinadhéanamh.

Senator Jerry Buttimer: Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire agus gabhaim comhghairdeas leis an Seanadóir Ó Murchú as ucht an obair a dhein sé mar chathaoirleach ar an bhfo-choiste. Chuala mé abhí le rá ag an Aire agus oráid an-maith a bhí . Tá muintir na Gaeltachta faoi bhrú agus táár dteanga faoi bhrú.Aganamgcéanna, má tá na fadhbanna ag méadú tá suim an-mhórigcúrsaí Gaeilge agus i gcultúr na Gaeilge, go mórmhór ins na gaelscoileanna. Tá suim mhór in oideachas tré Ghaeilge. Tá díomá orm nach bhfuil mo chuid Gaeilge flúirseach ach tá mé ag iarraidh í a cleachtadh. Ba bhreá liom fáilte a chur roimh an díospóireacht seo ar thuarascáil an fho-choiste ar Straitéis 20 Bliain don Ghaeilge 2010-2030. Cúis onóir dom bheith pairteach ins an phróséis tuarascála seo. Tá moladh tuilte ag mo chomhleacaithe ar an bhfo-choiste, agus go háirithe ag foireann an fho-choiste, as ucht an tréan oibre atá déanta acu le déanaí ar an tuarascáil seo. I pay particular tribute to cathaoirleach an fho-choiste, Senator Ó Murchú, for his great work in steering the sub-committee and bringing a cross-party group together. I also commend Deputy Dinny McGinley. Mar a luaigh cathaoirleach an fho-choiste i réamhrá na tuarascála, chaitheamar seacht mí ag plé an ábhair uilig. Bhí fáilte mór roimh gach grúpa agus roimh gach duine a rinne tairiscint. Tá dea-thioncar an chomhoibriú sin le feiscint i réamhrá na tuarascála, áit a bhfuil na ráitéisí seo a leanas:

Tá comhthuiscint ann nach féidir polasaí teanga a rialú go lárnach gan pobal na Gaeltachta agus na Gaeilge, na heagrais dheonacha ina measc, a bheith á gcur i bhfeidhm. Ar an dul céanna, tá comhthuiscint ann nach féidir le heagrais dheonacha straitéis teanga náisiúnta a chur i bhfeidhm gan an tacaíocht agus an saineolas pleanála teanga iomchuí.

Mar atá ráite sa tuarascáil, is dea-chomhartha an t-aitheantas seo do thodhchaí pleanála na tíre agus ba chóir na prionsabail seo a choimeád amach romhainn agus cursaí teanga a phlé. Tá 39 moltaí luaite ins an tuarascáil. Tá na moltaí seo bunaithe ar an straitéis amháin. Faraor, tá athraithe móra tagtha ar shaol na tíre seo ó foilsíodh an straitéis. Tógfaidh aon straitéis gealltanais airgeadais chun feidhmiú. Is oth liom a rá go bhfuil sé soiléir nach bhfuil an Rialtas toilteanach an infheistíocht a bheidh riachtanach a chur ar fáil chun an straitéis a chur i bhfeidhm. Despite the fact that we welcome the report, it is important to acknowledge that it 373 Irish Language: 2 November 2010. Motion

[Senator Jerry Buttimer.] is predicated on a Government commitment to provide funding, which is difficult in these times. Mar sin, táim buartha go dtitfidh an straitéis agus moltaí an fho-choiste go leataobh, mar atá tar éis tarlú le gach iarracht atá déanta leis na blianta ár dteanga Gaeilge a cosaint is a cothú. Ba é todhchaí agus ról Údarás na Gaeltachta an príomh ábhar a rinneamar tagairt dó le linn ár gcuid oibre ar an tuarascáil seo. Is léir go bhfuil na Gaeltachtaí ag brath go móraranúdarás agus go bhfuil todhchaí na nGaeltachtaí ceangailte go mórmhór ar staid Údarás na Gaeltachta. Is léir ó meastachán sholáthar chaipitil don Roinn Gnóthaí Pobail, Comhionannais agus Gaeltachta go mbeidh gearradh siar ollmhór don Roinn, agus mar sin don údarás, ins na blianta amach romhainn. Tá laghdú €65 milliún beartaithe ag an Rialtas ar chaiteachas chaipitil don Roinn idir 2010 agus 2016. Is droch-chomhartha é seo don údarás, don Ghaeltacht, don straitéis agus don teanga. Is fianaise í seo nach bhfuil an Rialtas i ndáiríre faoin straitéis. Déanann an straitéis agus ár dtuarascáil tagairt don ionad náisiúnta oideachais. D’fhógair an Rialtas ar dháócáid go dtógfar an t-ionad i mBaile Bhúirne i gContae Chorcaí. Faraor, is léir anois ónméid atá ráite ag an Tánaiste nach dtarlóidh a leithéid anois. Is buille tubaisteach í seo don straitéis agus don chóras oideachais. Tá an achmhainn seo ag teastáil go géar ag múinteoirí agus ag daltaí na Gaeilge. An rud is measa faoi seo ná go raibh an deis ag an Rialtas dul chun cinn a dhéanamh leis an ionad seo nuair a d’fhógair an t-iar-Aire, Deputy Michael Woods, an tionscnamh sa bhliain 2002, nuair a bhí na billiúin á gcaitheamh ar gach saghas ruda ar fud na tíre. Ní fheadair cénfiúntas ab fhéidir a dhéanamh do chursaí teanga leis an €50 a caitheadh ar e-vótáil. An méid sin ráite, caithimid glacadh go bhfuil an geilleagar i mbaol agus nach bhfuil na hachmhainní céanna againn a thuillleadh. Chomh fada agus a bhaineann sé liomsa, caithfimid bualadh ar aghaidh leis an chuid is mó den straitéis nach bhfuil costas airgeadais ag baint leis. Tá moltaí ins an straitéis agus inár dtuarascáil atá ciallmhar agus praiticiúil agus a dhéanfadh maitheas don teanga i gcoitinne. Tá an t-am ag sleamhnú uainn agus muna ndéanann an Taoiseach agus an Rialtas cinneadh maidir leis an straitéis tá an baol ann go rachaidh an straitéis agus an tuarascáil isteach sa chófra chéanna ina ndeachaigh na céadta foilseacháin atá déanta leis na blianta maidir leis an Ghaeilge. Táim ag lorg comhartha dóchasach ó mo chomhleachaithe os mo chomhair go bhfuil an toil ins an ghlúin seo buille a thabhairt ar son an teanga sula gcaillfimid an Ghaeilge agus an Ghaeltacht go deo. It is a pity I cannot make my entire address in Irish. I am a product of bad learning. I was a bad student, even though I did honours Irish in the leaving certificate examination. Tá suim mhór agam i gcúrsaí Gaeilge agus i gcúrsaí cultúrtha. This is an innovative report which is worthy of debate in the House. It is important that we put our language and culture and the people of the Gaeltacht ahead of everything else. We are a proud people. That is why it is important we never lose sight of the fact that our nationalism set us apart in Europe. We should be proud of our Irishness and our language. In these difficult economic times I hope we can command a space for our language and the people of the Gaeltacht who are both innovative and proud. I was in recently on my way to Gougane Barra where the people are very resourceful. I again welcome the report and hope the Government will not be found wanting. I compli- ment all those Members who were involved in the sub-committee and thank the Minister for his address.

Senator Labhrás Ó Murchú: Ba mhaith liom fáilte a chur roimh an Aire agus tréaslaím leis as an chinnireacht atááthabhairt aige, ní h-amháin don phróiseas seo ach ó thaobh na Gaeilge 374 Irish Language: 2 November 2010. Motion i gcoitinne. Ócáid stairiúil í seo inniu. Is minic go raibh díospóireachtaí againn ar stádas na Gaeilge agus todhchaí na Gaeilge, ach tá an díospóireacht seo difriúil mar nuair a thosaigh an Rialtas ar an dréachtstraitéis 20 bliain a chur ar fáil, bhí sé soiléir ag an am go raibh dáiríreacht ag baint leis an obair. Bhí coiste Rialtais ann agus bhí an Taoiseach mar chathaoirleach ar an gcoiste sin. Ansin, nuair a thug an comhchoiste faoin obair seo, bhí sé soiléir go raibh dáiríre- acht ag baint leis an gcomhchoiste chomh maith, mar thug sé faoin obair go praiticiúil — idir an Cathaoirleach, an Teachta Tomás Ó Ceit, agus gach uile duine ar an gcoiste — agus shocraí- odar nach mbeadh sé ceart dul ar aghaidh leis an obair seo gan éisteacht leis na daoine ag bhí ag saothrú na Gaeilge ar an dtalamh. Ní h-amháin gur bhuaileamar le seacht nó ocht n-eagras anseo i mBaile Átha Cliath, chuaigh an comhchoiste go Conamara agus bhuail sé le beagnach 30 eagras sa Ghaeltacht. Bhí seans ag na h-eagrais sin ar fad a dtuairimí a nochtadh, rud a dhein siad go soiléir agus go han-mhaith. Ag deireadh an phróisis sin sa Ghaeltacht, bhi tuiscint ag gach ball den chomhchoiste ar conas mar a bhí stádas na Gaeltachta ag an am sin agus na buanna a bhí inti. Ag an am céanna, thuigeadar an dúshlán cinnte atá ann don Ghaeltacht i láthair na huaire. Chomh maith leis an straitéis, ceann de na rudaí is mó atá tar éis teacht chun tosaigh ná an comhoibriú traspháirtí atá le feiscint agus le mothú sa phróiseas seo. Bhí sé soiléir óntúsgo raibh an comhchoiste agus an Aire ag iarraidh nach mbeadh aon coimhlint nó deighilt eatarthu maidir leis an obair seo. Ní hionann sin agus a rá go raibh gach éinne ar an tuairim céanna, agus ní cóir go mbeadh. Séardabhí ag teastáil uainn ná go mbeadh éagsúlacht ann agus go mbeadh an taithí pearsanta a bhí ag gach duine ar fáil, agus ag an deireadh go bhféadfaimísa rá go raibh comhordú déanta ar an taithí sin agus go raibh an cáipéis a d’éirigh as praiticiúl, dáiríre agus fíreanneach. Maidir leis an tuarascáil, tá 39 moltaí inti. Nuair a bhí an straitéis á phlé againn sa chomhcho- iste i dtosach, tharla rud neamhcoitianta. Is é sin, tháinig foireann ó TG4 isteach agus chlúdaigh siad an díospóireacht iomlán ar feadh ceithre uair an chloig. Ní dóigh liom gur tharla sin riamh cheana. Cruthaíonn seo arís go raibh ní h-ámháín TG4 ach lucht na Gaeilge agus an náisiúni gcoitinne ag braith go móraranphróiseas seo chun tabhairt faoin obair atá le déanamh le cinntiú ní h-amháin go gcothófar stádas na Gaeilge ach go neartófar í amach anseo freisin. Ní dóigh liom go gcuirfeadh an Rialtas dréachtstraitéis ar aghaidh ach amháin an dul chun cinn atá déanta ó thaobh na Gaeilge le breis agus 20 bliain anuas. Is féidir liomsa dul siar ar bhóithrín na smaointe go dtí am a raibh mé mar thimire le sna 1960aidí. Ag an am sin, bhí naimhdeas an-láidir i gcoinne an Ghaeilge. Bhí cúiseanna áirithe le sin. Bhíodh daoine ag caitheamh anuas ar an Ghaeilge, agus gach dochar nó dearmad a bhí déanta, cuireadh an milleán ar an Ghaeilge ag an am. Ní féidir linn a rá go raibh comhoibriú traspháirtí ann sna blianta sin; ní raibh ach a mhalairt. Bhí an-éadóchas ann i dtaobh na Gaeilge, cé go raibh daoine áirithe ann a sheas an fód an t-am ar fad. Thuigeadar go maith go raibh géarghá le Gaeilge ó thaobh spiorad an náisiúin de. Tá moladh an-mhór ag dul don Teachta Michael D. Higgins a bhí mar Aire nuair a chraolaí- odh TG4 don chéad uair. Is cuimhin liom go raibh díospóireacht ar RTE1 ag an am faoi ar cóir go mbeadh stáisiún teilifíse iomlán Gaeilge ann. Bhí slua mór daoine páirteach sa díos- póireacht, daoine a raibh baint acu le gnó, cultúrnó spórt agus araile. Bhain an díospóireacht geit as an-chuid daoine mar bhí beagnach gach duine sa díospóireacht sin ar thaobh Teilifísna Gaeilge a bhunú.Sílim nach é amháin teilifís Gaeilge a bhí i gceist sa díospóireacht ach go raibh an Ghaeilge í fhéin i gceist. Nuair a ghlac na daoine sin páirt sa díospóireacht agus nuair a sheas siad an fód mar a dhein siad, thug siad cinnireacht agus treoir do dhaoine. Anois, mar a luaigh an tAire, tá Raidió na Gaeltachta againn, tá TG4 againn agus tá na gaelscoileanna againn. Is iadsan ceann de na rudaí is mó a thug dóchas dúinn ó thaobh todhchaí na Gaeilge 375 Irish Language: 2 November 2010. Motion

[Senator Labhrás Ó Murchú.] de. Maidir leis an ghaelscolaíocht, is iad na daoine agus na heagrais iad féin a thug an treoir. Anois, is féidir leis an náisiún a bheith bródúil as an obair atá déanta ag na gaelscoileanna. Ós rud é go bhfuil 39 moltaí sa tuarascáil, nílmé ach chun labhairt go ginearálta faoi trí nó ceithre cinn. Labhartar faoin Gaeltacht agus an obair atá le déanamh chun an Ghaeltacht a chaomhnú agus a neartú. Maidir leis na moltaí i dtaobh na Gaeltachta, má chuirtear i bhfeidhm iad, tá gach seans ann ní h-amháin go gcaomhnófar an Ghaeltacht, ach go bhféadfaimísan Ghaeltacht a neartú agus a láidriú. Tagann na moltaí sin ó mhuintir na Gaeltachta iad féin mar tá muinínfós acu agus tá siad dáiríre faoin Ghaeltacht a neartú agus a chur chun cinn. Baineann ceann de na moltaí is mó leis an oideachas. Bhí roinnt mhaith díospóireachtaí sa Teach seo maidir le tumoideachas sa Ghaeilge agus léiríodh tuairimíáirithe faoi sin. Ach mar a dúirt mé, is iad na gaelscoileanna iad féin a chruthaigh go raibh ar a gcumas na scoileanna seo a chur ar fáil agus a threorú.Tá sé thar a bheith tábhachtach éisteacht leis na daoine atá i mbun na hoibre sin ós rud é gur thugadar an treoir agus gur chruthaigh siad go raibh éileamh ar na scoileanna sin. Ag an am céanna, chruthaigh siad go raibh na scoileanna sin thar a bheith tábhachtach ó thaobh stádas na Gaeilge de amach anseo. Tá tuairimí difriúla ann agus chuir sin isteach ar an dul chun cinn a bhíádhéanamh. Cho- thaigh sin míthuiscint agus deighilt. Tá sé thar a bheith tábhachtach, ní h-amháin don Roinn atá ag baint leis an Ghaeilge ach don Roinn Oideachais agus Scileanna chomh maith, go mbeidh comhthuiscint agus ceangailt eatarthu. Ceann de na moltaí atá sa straitéísná gur cóir stádas reachtúil a thabhairt don Chomhairle um Oideachas Gaeltachta agus Gaelscolaíochta. Creidim gur sin ceann de na moltaí is fearr sa tuarascáil. Táim ag súil go mór nach gcuirfear ar leataobh é mar muna dtugtar comhordú, aitheantas, cumhacht agus údarás den saghas sin di, tiocfaidh laghdú ar an ghaelscolaíocht agus ar oideachas trí Ghaeilge sa Ghaeltacht. Táim ag súil go mór nach ndéanfar neamhaird ar sin. Tá súil agam freisin nach mbeidh aon laghdú ann ó thaobh caighdeán an oideachais sa Ghaeilge. Tá sé tábhachtach go mbeidh siollabas nua againn ó bhun go barr le cinntiú go bhfuilimid ag cabhrú leo siúdatá ag iarraidh oideachas Gaeilge a chur ar fáil. Uaireanta bíonn ráflaí ag dul thart agus fuair mé féin cúpla glaochanna gutháin ó na páipéirí nuachta á rá liom go raibh sé i gceist i slíéigin an caighdeán san ardteistiméireacht a athrú go bunúsach. Nílmé ag rá go bhfuil níos mó ann ná ráfla. Tá súil agam nach dtarlóidh a leithéid go dtí go ndéanfaí mionscrúdú agus machnamh ar an siollabas nua. Ba chóir go mbeadh an obair sin ar bharr an liosta. Bhí an Aire láncheart nuair a dúirt sé go mbraitheann an cheist seo go hiomlán ar an bpobal. Is cuma cén reachtaíocht, airgead nó tacaíocht Stáit atá ann muna bhfuil tacaíocht an phobail ann. Caithfimid a chinntiú go bhfuil an cabhair atááthabhairt don phobal chun an Ghaeilge a chur chun tosaigh flaithiúil. Ba chóir don Rialtas labhairt le gach éinne a bhfuil baint acu leis an Ghaeilge. Aontaím go hiomlán leis an méidadúirt an Aire in óráid a thug sé le déanaí. Chuir sé béim faoi leith ar thuismitheoirí.Má thugann tuismitheoirí an treoir agus an cabhair ceart, beidh sé ar ár gcumas timpeallacht ceart a chur ar fáil. Is é sin an laige is mó abhíonn ann, i ndáiríre, ó thaobh cur chun cinn na Gaeilge de. Iarrtar go minic conas is féidir le daoine freastal ar scoil ar feadh 14 bliain agus teacht amach gan muinín a bheith acu an Ghaeilge a úsáid. Bhuail mé le beirt múinteoir ógledéanaí—daoine atá an-cabhrach ó thaobh cur chun cinn cultúrna Gaeilge. Ní raibh sé de mhuinín ag an mbeirt acu abairt amháinará sa teanga. Nílmé ag cur an milleánarnamúinteoiríóga seachas ar an dtimpeallacht. Tugann múinteoirí amhúineann an Ghaeilge faoi deara nach bhfuil an timpeallacht díreach lasmuigh de dhoras na scoile cabhrach ó thaobh cur chun cinn na Gaeilge de. 376 Irish Language: 2 November 2010. Motion

Tá seirbhísí cabhracha á sholáthar ag Raidió na Gaeltachta agus TG4. Tá Acht na dTeanga- cha Oifigiúla 2003 againn anois. Tá stádas oifigiúil oibre ag an Ghaeilge san Eoraip. Tá an Ghaeilge chomh aitheanta anois gur féidir l’éinne a bhfuil dá theanga acu jab a bhaint amach san Eoraip. Tá an obair sin déanta. Caithfimid anailísiú adhéanamh go bunúsach, gan mórán ama a chaitheamh air, chun a dhearbhú cad is féidir linn a dhéanamh chun an timpeallacht a chothú.Aganamcéanna, caithfimid a chinntiú go bhfuil seans ag daoine an Ghaeilge a úsáid nuair a fhágann siad an scoil. Theastaigh uaim é sin a rá os rud é gur luaigh an Aire an obair atá déanta ag na heagrais Ghaeilge. Ach amháin go rabhadar ann, tá mé cinnte nach mbéadh an díospóireacht seo againn, agus nach mbeadh an straitéis againn. Tá súil agam go mbeidh na heagrais a luaigh an Aire — Conradh na Gaeilge, Comhdháil Náisiúnta na Gaeilge agus Údarás na Gaeilge — go léir lár- nach san obair atá le déanamh. Tá súil agam go mbeimid flaithiúil leo freisin. Glacaim leis an méid a dúirt an Seanadóir Buttimer maidir le ganntanas airgid. Tá dea- shampla tugtha ag an Seanadóir ó thaobh cur chun cinn na Gaeilge, ní hamháin anseo ach sa chomhchoiste freisin. Ní féidir luach a chur ar chroí an náisiún, nó ar an traidisiúnatá againn. Iarraim ar an Aire, nuair atá sé ag lorg airgid don bhliain seo chugainn, a shoiléiriú go mbaine- ann an Ghaeilge agus an chultúr Gaelach le chroí an náisiún.

Senator Joe O’Toole: Ba mhaith liom mo chuid ama a roinnt leis an Seanadóir Harris.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach: Is that agreed? Agreed.

Senator Joe O’Toole: Cuirim fáilte roimh mo shean-chara — an Aire — arís. Labhair an Seanadóir Ó Murchú mar gheall ar múinteoiríóga. Is féidir linn ceacht a fhoglaim ón stair sa chás seo. Go dtí 1922, bhí córas oideachais na tíre seo i mBéarla ar fad. Idir 1922 agus 1925, b’fhéidir, d’athraíodh an chóras agus i gceann cúpla bliain, bhí sé fréamhaithe sa Ghaeilge. Cad a dhein na húdaráis ag an am chun é sin a dhéanamh? Braithim go bhfuilimid in áit an-chosúil le sin faoi láthair. Ceapaim go bhfuil an teanga i gcontúirt marfach faoi láthair. Ní fheadar an bhfuil todhchaí don teanga, i ndáiríre. Is cuimhin liom go raibh an ábhar seo á phlé le John Wilson nuair a bhí sé ina Aire Oidea- chais i 1980. Bhí an Aire agus mé féin ag obair i scoileanna éagsúla ag an am sin. Tháinig an Aire Wilson chun cinneadh gurb fhéidir linn a leithéidadhéanamh arís. Bhí mé ag labhairt leis thar ceann an INTO ag an am. Mhol mé gur chóir go mbeadh seans ag gach múinteoir tréimhse ráithe a chaitheamh sa Ghaeltacht — ag maireachtáil, ag múineadh agus ag foghlaim ann. Dúirt mé gur cheart go mbeadh seans acu cultúr na Gaeltachta a thógaint isteach. Bhí an Aire tógtha leis an moladh sin agus d’aontaigh sé leis. Is féidir leis an Aire, an Teachta Carey, an Páipéar Bán a fhoilsíodh i 1981 a léamh. Tá an moladh sin ann. Is mór an trua nár cuireadh i bhfeidhm é riamh. Ba mhaith liom díriú ar an méidadúirt an Seanadóir Ó Murchú faoi na múinteoiríóga na tíre. Ba bhreá liom go mbeadh seans ag múinteoiríóga tréimhse ráithe a chaitheamh sna Ghaeltachtaí. Cabhródh sé leis freisin na gheilleagair áitiúla sna Gaeltachtaí a chur chun cinn. Iarraim ar an Aire scrúdúúradhéanamh ar an moladh sin. Thabharfadh sé fuinneamh nua do mhúinteoiríóga. B’iad siúdatháinig ar ais os na Gaeltachtaí sna 1920í a chur an Ghaeilge chun cinn sna scoileanna agus sa chóras oideachais sna blianta ina dhiadh sin. Ba mhaith liom comhghairdeas a dhéanamh leis an gcomhchoiste a chur an tuarascáil seo ar fáil. Tá a fhios agam go bhfuil cúpla ball den choiste i láthair inniu. Rinne siad jab maith. Tá an Seanadóir Ó Murchú ag éisteacht liom sa Teach seo le 20 bliain, nach mór. Don chéad uair riamh, tá níos mó tábhacht tugtha dos na Gaeltachtaí ná dos na Galltachtaí sa straitéis atá os ár gcomhair. Tá sé thar a bheith tábhachtach. Tá sé tábhachtach na Gaeltachtaí a chothú mar 377 Irish Language: 2 November 2010. Motion

[Senator Joe O’Toole.] an teanga. Tá sé thar a bheith tábhachtach freisin an Ghaeilge a leathnú amach os na Gaeltachtaí.Godtí seo, bhí iomarca béim ar na hiarrachtaí daoine a spreagadh cúpla focal Gaeilge a labhairt sna Galltachtaí.Tá sé sin tábhachtach, ach tá sé níos tábhachtaí go dtabharfaí tacaíocht dos na Gaeltachtaí. Thar na blianta, bhí mé míshásta go raibh níos mó tacaíochta á thabhairt dos na gaelscoileanna ná dos na scoileanna Gaeltachta. Tá sé deacair é sin a thuiscint, go mórmhór os rud é nach bhfuil Gaeilge ón gcliabhán ag 50%, b’fhéidir, de leanaí i go leor Gaeltachtaí agus iad ag tosnú ar scoil. Labhair an Seanadóir Ó Murchú mar gheall ar an Chomhairle um Oideachas Gaeltachta agus Gaelscolaíochta. Cé go bhfuil obair an chomhairle tábhachtach, ní fheadar an bhfuil sé chomh tábhachtach agus go gcaithfear é a chur ar bhunús reachtúil — ní chuireann an méid sin as dom. Tá sé thar a bheith tábhachtach go mbeadh an chomhairle in ann cinntí athógaint ar son na Gaeilge. Tá mé ag caint faoin tumoideachas, mar shampla. Bhí mé go mór i bhfábhar an tumoideachas agus mé ag féachaint air mar oideoir. Bhraith mé igcónaí dá mbeadh tumoide- achas ag páistí ar feadh cúpla bliain agus iad ag tosnú leis an oideachas, go mbeadh gach seans acu balancing a dhéanamh ar sin amach ansin go dtí deireadh a gcúrsaí sna scoileanna. Bhí an rud céanna i gceist agam nuair a chuir mé moladh gur cóir go mbeadh seans ag múinteoirí freastal ar na Gaeltachtaí. An rud céanna atá i gceist; is tumoideachas é.Ní fhéadfadh le aon duine cur i gcoinne sin. Ní dhearna an tAire aon tagairt sa mhéid adúirt sé don Good Friday Agreement. Ceann de na lochtanna atá ar an Good Friday Agreement ná gur cuireadh Gaeilge isteach sa North-South section as opposed to the east-west section. Braithim go mbeadh sé i bhfad níos tábhachtaí go mbeadh Gaeilge ann san east-west context — leis an dá oileán, agus leis an Albain, an Bhrea- tain Bheag agus na háiteanna eile, agus go mbeadh sórt fuinneamh agus synergies eatarthu. Bheadh sin thar a bheith tábhachtach. D’fhéadfaimís, mar shampla, polasaithe a bheith againn don dá oileán agus is mór an trua nár tharla sin. Ní dóigh liom go bhfuil aon rud ag tarlú sa North-South comhthéacs faoi láthair, nó sin mar a bhraithim. Maidir leis an méid a dúirt an tAire i dtaobh na heagraisí a chur le céile, tá sin thar a bheith tábhachtach, go háirithe i dtaobh Údarás na Gaeltachta. Tá jab ar leith, spéisiúil agus tábhachtach le déanamh ag Údarás na Gaeltachta agus caithfear féachaint chuige go mbeidh tacaíocht ann dó chun an jab sin a dhéanamh. Is cuimhin liom a bheith anseo dhá bhliain ó shin nuair a bhí deacrachtaíáirithe ann maidir le some kind of light industrial development a chur ar bun ar an mBuailtín, i mBaile an Fhéirtéirigh i gCorca Dhuibhne. Bhí deacracht éigin maidir le gan a bheith in ann planning permission nó rud éigin a chur isteach. B’shin an t-aon seans a bhí ann le deich mbliana chun jabanna a chur ar fáil do ghnáth daoine san áit sin, ach níor éirigh leis i ndeireadh na dála. That is the kind of thing that happens. Tá seo tábhachtach. Nílsé chomh fada sin ó thugamar isteach an Bille a dhéileáileann le urgent infrastructure. Ó thaobh na Gaeilge de, ba chóir go mbeadh an seans céanna ag tograí a bhaineann leí.Má tá gá ann rud a thógaint chun an Ghaeilge a chur chun cinn, tá tábhacht bunreachtúil ag baint le sin. Ba chóir go dtuigfeadh muid é sin. Seanadóir Ó Murchú and I have fought long and hard ar gnéithe áirithe den Acht Teanga. Nílim chun -Daingean Uí Chúis a lua ar chor ar bith. I will leave that aside, ach chun an méid seo a rá.Bhí ar a lán comhlachtaí agus eagrais Stáit a dtuarascálacha cinn bliana a fhoilsiú i nGaeilge. That is the kind of thing that brings Irish into disrepute. Ní raibh aon gá leis. I ndeireadh na dála, bhíomar sásta na tuarascálacha sin a chur ar an web agus d’éirigh linn to meet the letter of the law sa chás sin. I dtosach, nuair an tháinig an fhadhb sin chun cinn go poiblí, chuir a lán daoine ina coinne. Tá daoine ann atá i bhfábhar na Gaeilge, ach níl siad sásta cuidiú le haon rud nach bhfuil praiticiúil agus suimiúil. 378 Irish Language: 2 November 2010. Motion

Tá moladh sa straitéis maidir le dátheangachas, ach ní aontaímmórán leis. Is é an taon moladh atá ann nach bhfuil mé ró-thógtha leis. Braithim gur cóir go mbeadh Béarla agus Gaeilge ar a dtoil ag na daoine atá chun an Ghaeilge a chur chun cinn. They should be able to argue and put the case in both languages másgá sin a dhéanamh. Is cuimhin liom dul uair amháin chuig Ian Paisley agus é ina MP agus MEP ag an uair. Bhí mé ag iarraidh tacaíochta do na Gaelscoileanna i mBéal Feirste. Nobody in the gaelscoil movement in the North would speak to me because I took a practical approach to languages. Ceann de na rudaí a chuireann isteach orm nach raibh sa Good Friday Agreement ná nach raibh aon duine sásta go mbeadh polasaí amháin don teanga don oileán ar fad. What I have seen in respect of the Irish language is a partitionist approach by all the parties, including, as I have informed its members on many occasions, Sinn Féin. Tá sé i bhfábhar go mbeadh Gaeilge toilteanach or voluntary and avail- able in the North but compulsory in the South. That is not an all-island approach to developing a policy. My view is that people who begin their education in one language should be able to continue to communicate in that language. The Reverend Ian Paisley agreed with me and did not have a difficulty in that regard. He stated he was not prepared to support the erection of Irish language signs in Belfast city centre but that he did not have a problem with supporting the establishment of gaelscoileanna — or Irish schools — in parts of the North where people were in favour of their development. Bhí sin thar a bheith tábhachtach. An rud is mó a chuireann isteach orm ná iadsan a úsáideann an Ghaeilge mar sórt gunna who use the language as a weapon to exclude people. Seo an deacracht is furasta a fheiscint. Sna Gaeltachtaí, if somebody who cannot speak Irish comes into the company of a group of people who are speaking the language, everyone else begins to communicate in English because that is the mannerly approach to take. In Dublin, the opposite happens. If somebody who can communicate haltingly through Irish joins the company of people who are already communi- cating through the language — I must be careful how I describe these individuals because when I used a particular phrase to describe them on a previous occasion, I was apologising for two months afterwards — they tend to speak faster and use more difficult words in order to ensure the former does not understand what is happening. Tá an straitéis seo praiticiúil agus molaim é agus obair an chomhchoiste.

Senator Eoghan Harris: Tréaslaím leis an Aire agus leis an Seanadóir Ó Murchú as ucht an straitéis thábhachtach seo a chur i bhfeidhm. Molaim go mórgoluíonn sí isteach ar chroílár na ceiste nuair a deireann sí go mbraitheann gach rud ar inmharthanacht na Gaeltachta. Le fada an lá, thugamar sórt sheirbhísbéil don Ghaeltacht. Tá an-chuid daoine ann a mheasann dá mbeadh an Ghaeltacht imithe agus 20,000 daoine ag labhairt Gaeilge i mBaile Átha Cliath, go mbeadh sin all right. Ní bheadh, mar ní bheadh ann ach argot, saghas pidgin language. Ní bheadh teanga ceart ann. Ba cheart ó thosach, mar a mhol an t-ollamh a bhí ann roimh an t- ollamh Breathnach sna caogaidí,anbhéim a chur ar an Ghaeltacht seachas ar an Ghaeilge a mhúineadh sna scoileanna. Ba cheart na Gaeltachtaí a chosaint agus a leathnú. Mar sin, is é an rud is tábhachtach a tharla le 20 nó 30 bliain anuas ná Raidió na Gaeltachta. Chuir sin meán cumarsáide nua ar fáil don Ghaeltacht. Chun an fhírinne a rá, measaim go bhfuil an Ghaeltacht chomh tábhachtach san. Abair go raibh an cainteoir dúchais deireannach ag fáil bháis inniu, cad a bheadh fágtha againn a bheadh tábhachtach ó thaobh an Ghaelachais de? Bheadh an slabhra briste ar fad. Not on our watch. Tá súil agam nach dtarlóidh sin. Ach tá gach seans go dtarlóidh sin agus go mbrisfear an slabhra sa ghlúin seo. Le bheith macánta faoi, creidim gur ceart Gaeilgeoirí sna Gaeltachtaí agus sna pócaí Gaeltachta a chuir ar phá. Ba cheart airgead a thabhairt dóibh chun Gaeilge de chaigh- deán ard a labhairt chun an teanga agus an cultúr a chaomhnú agus chun ranganna agus tacaí- ocht a thabhairt do Bhéarlóirí as na cathracha chun feabhas a chur an Ghaeilge atá acu. Ní 379 Irish Language: 2 November 2010. Motion

[Senator Eoghan Harris.] dóigh liom gur cóir dóibh Gaeilge bhunúsach a mhúineadh dóibh — ba cheart go mbeadh sin déanta san scoileanna — gur cúir cabhrú leo chun feabhas a chur ar an Ghaeilge atá acu. Daoine ar nós Liam Ó Muirthile, an file, atá i gceist agam. Duine é sin a labhrann Gaeilge ag caighdeán a bhfuil deacair dúinn a fhios a bheith againn nach cainteoir dúchais ó thosach é. Sin an caighdeánatá ag teastáil uainn. Ba mhaith liom go dtógfadh an choiste gné eile den Gaeltacht atá ann faoi láthair faoina bhráid. Nach bhfuil sé de cheart againn ghrád nua de chaomhantóir — daoine a labhrann an Ghaeilge agus a bhfuil an cultúr, an ceol agus an dúchas acu — a bhunú sa seirbhís phoiblí?Is rud iontach é,b’fhéidir, i gcomhthéacs na tuairimí atá agam ar an seirbhís phoiblí, go bhfuil mé ag iarraidh post den tsórt seo a thabhairt do dhaoine leis na scileanna chun an Ghaeilge agus an cultúr Gaelach a chaomhnú.Ní féidir linn éalúónfhírinne go bhfuil an teanga deacair. Is rud amháin é rince Gaelach a mhúineadh, ach is rud eile é teanga chomh deacair a mhúine- adh. Tá an-jab déanta ag an Seanadóir Ó Murchú agus ag daoine eile i gComhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann ó thaobh ceol de. Is teanga saibhir casta í an Ghaeilge. Ba cheart í a chaomhnú agus a chosaint, agus gan í a lagú, a laghdú nó a thruailliú. Caithfimid smaoineamh ar ghrád phoiblí nua — chaomhantóir na Gaeilge — a bhunú. Aontaímgomór leis an Seanadóir Ó Murchú gurb iad na Protastúnaigh, seachas Daniel O’Connell, a chosain an Ghaeilge sa 19ú aois. Labhair na misinéirí Protastúnacha a bhí Gaeilge acu an teanga sna Gaeltachtaí.Bhí na Preispitéirigh i mBéal Feirste go mór ar thaobh na Gaeilge. Tá an-éileamh don Ghaeilge i measc na n-Aontachtaithe, go mórmhóraníosaicme agus na hoibrithe. Tá taithí pearsanta agam go bhfuil siad réidh déileáil leis an Ghaeilge i mbealach nua-aimseartha agus oscailte. Tá sé in am do Sinn Féin agus dreamanna eile éirí as an Ghaeilge a úsáid mar bhata cultúrtha anuas ar Phrotastúnaigh. Déanadh botúnmór uafásach i 1915 nuair a thóg Sinn Féin greim ar Chonradh na Gaeilge. Ba chóir do Sinn Féin éirí as an bata. Mar a mhol an Seanadóir O’Toole, ba cheart réimse “east-west” a bheith ann in ionad réimse Thuaidh-Theas. Molaim go mór an straitéis, atá chomh réadúil le haon straitéis a chonaic mé riamh.

Senator Dan Boyle: When considering my contribution today I considered a number of options. One was to read a prepared script as Gaeilge which I would have been able to do quite competently. Another was to preface my speech with a cúpla focal along the lines of, “Tá áthas mór an corn seo a ghlacadh”, as we often hear in public speeches, but I decided, given the nature of the competency of my language, I would speak in English because I believe that any strategy which aims to foster an increase in the use of the Irish language must be aimed particularly towards citizens like me. As to our willingness and ability to use language, a number of fair points have been made during the debate. Too often, as Senator O’Toole has said, Irish has been used as a weapon. We need to ensure the use and love of the Irish language is an issue of cultural rather than political importance. We need to learn from the example of nations such as Wales which has managed quite successfully to increase the use of its language in a way that we have avoided doing. There have been some improvements in recent years, such as the success of TG4 and the passing of the Official Languages Act, and they point in the right direction, but the strategy also must be about reviewing where such Acts may not have been as positive in their intent as they might have been. For instance, the requirement of the Official Languages Act to have annual reports in Irish and English is something which needs to be reviewed, certainly in printed form. With infor- mation technology there is no difficulty in having Irish and English versions of annual reports but the cost involved and the level of usage of the reports are putting an unnecessary burden 380 Irish Language: 2 November 2010. Motion on their production. It is money which need not be spent and it is not doing anything to encourage the use of Irish as a language. There has been progress in how the language has been taught in schools. The requirement to have 40% on an oral test will be of great use in the future. My inability to speak, despite the fact that my father was a native speaker and that I was born in the United States, has something to do with most people’s conditional reflex — I use the term on purpose——

Senator : The Senator is like de Valera.

Senator Dan Boyle: People are more concerned with an tuiseal ginideach and the modh coinníollach than speaking the language freely and competently. My concerns about making a speech like this in Irish are that issues such as tenses, plurals, the use of pronouns, the way the Irish language puts in letters just for the sake of it a lot of the time and the fact that it is a language which is from another language family from the predominant language in the country make it even more difficult for people. That said, our inability to teach Irish effectively and use the language in a more everyday sense can also be linked with our failure as a nation to properly address the use of other languages. There must be a link between the failure to teach Irish properly and our failure to speak different languages effectively. We share that laziness with our near neighbours in the United Kingdom and not the approach of our cousins on the European mainland where the speaking of three, four or five languages is a matter of course. If their education systems can structure a system of language development and usage in that way, then very big questions need to be asked as to why we cannot do it here. The strategy is an honest attempt at least to address those inconsistencies. As for the four scenarios outlined in the strategy, there is an onus on the Government to point us in a particular direction, whether that is an independent agency, a new office within the Department, developing existing bodies such as Foras na Gaeilge or trying to reconfigure Údarás na Gaeltachta, which has a cultural and economic brief. We need clarity, if it is a 20- year strategy, on which approach we should take. I do not know what the Minister would think about my preference but, given the times we live in, we are moving away from the type of Government where we thought specialisms and parcelling out roles to quangos was the right approach. We need to bring Government back to the centre in terms of making such policy decisions. We need to use the type of skills that are in the public sector to which Senator Harris referred. I also like to acknowledge the point he made, namely, that the work on developing the Irish language is as much about minority cultures as the prevailing ethos in the country. The fact that from the late 19th century there was a Bible and Book of Common Prayer in Irish for the Church of Ireland while the Roman Catholic Church was still saying mass in Latin says something about who owns, loves and tries to promote the language. The real challenge is to divorce the development of Irish from being a political goal and make it a cultural goal. I am confident that in the future when I have the time and ability to do so I will be able to speak with none of the three options which I outlined at the start of my speech. I may have a combination of more confidence and Irish content, and confidence that we are going down the right road in encouraging a sense of ownership of the language among all our citizens.

Senator Dominic Hannigan: Is mian liom mo chuid ama a roinnt leis an Seanadóir de Búrca.

Acting Chairman (Senator Cecilia Keaveney): Is that agreed? Agreed.

381 Irish Language: 2 November 2010. Motion

Senator Dominic Hannigan: Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire. Tááthas orm bheith anseo chun an tuarascáil seo a phlé. Gabhaim comhghairdeas leis an gcoiste as an obair a rinne sé ar an tuarascáil seo. Chaith baill an choiste seacht mí ag obair air. Go háirithe, is mian liom ómósa thabhairt do Baill an Tigh seo — na SeanadóiríÓMurchú agus Doherty — ad’oibrigh ar an gcoiste. I Nollaig 2009, mhol an tAire Gnóthaí Pobail, Tuaithe agus Gaeltachta, an Teachta Éamon Ó Cuív, an dréacht straitéis 20 bliain don Ghaeilge don choiste agus d’iarr sé ar bhaill an choiste macnamh a dhéanamh ar an tuarascáil. Tá an straitéis seo ar ceann de na céimeanna is samhlaíoch ariamh a ghlacadh ar shon fhorbairt na Gaeilge. Cuireadh an tuarascáil atáá phlé againn le chéile tar éis dul i gcomhairle le comhlachtaíéagsúla ar fud na tíre. Míníonn an tuarascáil dúinn conas gur féidir linn cur leis an líon daoine a labhraíonn Gaeilge go laethúil. Ceann de na príomh moltaí adhéanann an coiste ná go gcoinneodh Údarás na Gaeltachta na freagrachtaí atá aige faoi láthair. Tá sin tábhachtach. Aithníonn muid go léir an dea obair a dhein an t-údarás. Le roinnt blianta anuas, thaisteal mé go Gleann Cholm Cille i nDún na Gall i rith an tsamhraidh chun freastal ar chlár samhraidh Oideas Gael, a bhunaigh cathaoirleach Údarás na Gaeltachta, Liam Ó Cuinneagáin. Feicim an dea obair atá déanta ag an eagraíocht. Aontaím go bhfuil róllárnach ag an údarás le himirt sa phróiseas seo. Tá príomh cuspóirí an Rialtais leagtha amach sa straitéis agus, san iomlán, cuirtear 13 cus- póirí ar aghaidh sa tuarascáil. Mar a dúirt daoine eile, is í an aidhm ná caighdeán labhairt na Gaeilge a ardú in Éirinn agus líon na gcainteoirí laethúla a ardúó75,000 anois go dtí 250,000 i gceann 20 bliain. Tá ceithre céimeanna beartaithe ag an straitéis 20 bliain. Tá sé beartaithe blian 1 a chaitheamh ar oibriúcháin pleanála, bliain 2 agus 3 a chaitheamh ag cur síos ar fátha na straitéise, bliain 4 go dtí 15 a chaitheamh ar leathnú agus doimhniú na teanga agus blianta 16-20 a chaitheamh ar chomhdhlúthú na bearta. Thar an tréimhse sin, comórfar go leor eachtraí stairiúla, mar shampla Éirí Amach na Cásca agus Cogadh na Saoirse. Mar sin, tá sé in am a bheith ag obair ar leathnú ar an eolas ar ár dteanga. Tá an coiste Oireachtais tar éis obair an mhaith a dhéanamh ag dul tríd na straitéise agus tá tuarascáil curtha ar fáil ina bhfuil 39 moltaí. Tacaím leis na moltaí agus labhróidh mé faoi cuid acu. Tacaím leis an gá le bearta chun cur le líon na gcainteoirí sna cheantair Gaeltachta. I mo chontae, an Mhí,tá dá cheantair Gaeltachta, Rath Chairn agus . Tá gá tacaíocht a thabhairt don dá cheantar seo chun fás a chothú agus chun go leanfaidh siad ar aghaidh. Labhair mé sa Teach an seachtain seo chaite ar an ghá atá le Gaelscoil a fhorbairt i Rath Tó i gContae na Mí. Bunaíodh an scoil i mbliana, ach faoi láthair tá ar na tuismitheoirí cíos an áitrimh agus tuarastal an mhúinteora a íoc. Nuair a d’iarr mé ar an Tánaiste aitheantas a thabhairt don scoil, dúirt sí liom go raibh áiteanna ar fáil i scoileanna Béarla i Rath Tó agus go raibh caighdeán na Gaeilge sna scoileanna sin an-mhaith. Iarrfaidh mé ar an Aire athbhre- ithniú adhéanamh ar an cheist seo, mar i mo thuairim is soiléir gur bealach amháin iad na Gaelscoileanna as gur féidir linn an sprioc de 250,000 cainteoirí laethúla a shroichint. Má ligtear dúinn Gaelscoil a bhunú gach bliain le haghaidh 30 páistí, tar éis 20 bliain, beidh 600 daoine fásta líofa sa teanga. Labhraíonn an tuarascáil freisin faoi tacaíocht breise do mhúinteoirí agus aontaím le sin. Ní mórdúinn a chinntiú go bhfuil an caighdeán is fearr ar oiliúint múinteoirí. Mar a dúirt an Seanadóir Labhrás Ó Murchú, caithfear bealach eile a iniúchadh chun an Ghaeilge a mhúine- adh ionas go dtiocfaidh feabhas ar labhairt na teanga. Faoi láthair, de réir daonáireamh 2006, tá thart ar 1.7 milliún daoine a bhfuil eolas acu ar an Ghaeilge. Sin thart faoi 30% de daonra na hÉireann. Cheap mise gur céatadán maith é sin ar dtús, ach ansin d’fhiafraigh mé díom féin cénfáth go raibh an céatadán chomh híseal nuair a d’fhreastal gach duine sa Stát ar scoileanna ar feadh 13 bliain ar a laghad agus Gaeilge á fhoghlaim acu go laethúil iontu. Caithfidh muid ará gur theip ar chóras oideachais na hÉireann sa chás seo, mar níl aon Ghaeilge ag 70% dár ndaonra, cé gur chaith siad 2,000 uair ag foghlaim na teanga ar scoil. Rinne mé roinnt taighde 382 Irish Language: 2 November 2010. Motion ar an cheist seo agus cé go mbraitheann foghlaim teanga ar an duine, ba chóir líofacht a bheith ag duine tar éis 1,000 uair a chaitheamh ag staidéar. Nílagéirí linn. Mar sin, tááthas orm a fheiceáil go bhfuil béim sa tuarascáil ar na teicníochtaí teagaisc a úsáideann muid. Cinnte, déanfaidh mé féin agus mo chomhghleacaithe i Pháirtí an Lucht Oibre an méid is féidir linn chun cinntiú go gcaomhnófar agus go bhfeabhsófar stádas na Gaeilge ionas go gcomhlíonfaimid spriocanna na straitéise. Ach, beidh tuilleadh tacaíochta agus airgid ag teastáil ón Rialtas ionas go mbeidh rath ar an straitéis.

Senator Paddy Burke: I thank Senator Hannigan for sharing time. Níl ach beagán Gaeilge agam but I welcome the opportunity to say a few words in English as somebody who under- stands some of the spoken language. I would dearly love to be able to speak it fluently but I cannot, although I love the language and the way it is spoken. It is a beautiful language. I welcome the report and I recognised two issues at 1.2.1 and 1.2.2. There is a common understanding that the language policy cannot be centrally regulated without the agreement and co-operation of the Gaeltacht and Irish language communities, including the voluntary organisations. I agree with the two recommendations. My nephews attended a Gaeltacht this year and I was very impressed with the report they brought back to me. They were in Connem- ara and could have been very close to the residence of the Minister, Deputy Ó Cuív, although they could not fully understand him. Many people cannot.

Acting Chairman (Senator Cecilia Keaveney): The Senator should not comment on people who are not here to defend themselves.

Senator Paddy Burke: They were very impressed as no English was spoken for the three weeks they were in the Gaeltacht. They struggled at the beginning but were delighted with their progress by the end. This is not available to every student but it should be, and the Government should work to a position where every student would have an opportunity to go to the Gaeltacht. Currently it is people who are better off or who have more of an interest in the language who avail of the teaching in the Gaeltacht. This should be extended to every student and could be achieved by closing a college for a week or two weeks, with all the students sent to various . The Government and the Minister for Education and Skills in particular should consider such a move, as the lessons would be valuable. My nephews brought this lesson home to me when they told me no English was spoken at all. There are many illiterate people in this country who can speak English. The same is true of the Irish language, as many cannot write it but can understand it or speak it. Much can be done in this regard. I welcome this report and the Minister should provide the opportunity for students at some stage to go to a Gaeltacht. This would strengthen the Gaeltachts and much progress could take place as a result.

Senator Brian Ó Domhnaill: Tá lúcháir orm an deis a bheith againn uilig díospóireacht agus plé a bheith againn ar an tuarascáil seo agus ar an obair atá déanta ag an comhchoiste agus an grúpa oibre sa choiste sin faoi chathaoirleacht an Seanadóir Labhrás Ó Murchú. Gabhaim buíochas leis agus leis na baill eile as an obair a rinne siad chun na moltaí seo a thabhairt chun tosaigh. D’éist mé leis na cainteoirí eile agus leis an Aire i dtaca an áit ina bhfuilimid faoi láthair, agus na tuairimíéagsúla atá sa Seanad i dtaca leis an Ghaeilge, an Ghaeltacht, an áit ina bhfuilimid ag dul, na spriocanna atá leagtha amach agus na moltaí atá sa tuarascáil. Aontaíonn gach éinne go gcaithfear rud éigin a dhéanamh chun an Ghaeilge a neartú agus a fhorbairt sna blianta atá amach romhainn. Cuireann sé lúcháir orm go bhfuil na páirtithe agus na Neamhs- pleáigh go léir i gcomhaontas ar an ábhar tábhachtach seo, a bhaineann le stair agus cultúrna 383 Irish Language: 2 November 2010. Motion

[Senator Brian Ó Domhnaill.] tíre agus le todhchaí na teanga. Tá sé ráite sa díospóireacht seo agus sa tuarascáil go bhfuil go leor brú ar an Ghaeilge, go háirithe sa Ghaeltacht ach taobh amuigh den Ghaeltacht freisin. Tá an domhan i bhfad níos lú anois ná marabhí sé.Tá tionchar an-tábhachtach ag na meáin chumarsáide áitiúla, náisiúnta agus idirnáisiúnta ar an teanga. Luaigh an Seanadóir Harris an tábhacht a bhaineann le Raidió na Gaeltachta agus TG4. Tá an-chuid oibre déanta ag na stáisiúin sin chun an Ghaeilge a thabhairt chun cinn. Tá TG4, go háirithe, tar éis an Ghaeilge a dhéanamh “cool” don ghlúin óg. D’oibrigh an Seanadóir ar chlár cosúil le “The X Factor”. Chuir sé a chuid tuairimí i dtaca le chúrsaí ceoil, damhsa agus rince in iúlarangclár. Clár maith a bhí ann. Chuala mé go leor páistí ag rá go rabhadar ar breathnú ar an gclár agus ag baint suim as. Sílim gur chóir go mbeadh comhoibriú idir an Roinn agus na meáin maidir le cláracha den chineál sin a chur ar fáil do phobal Gaeilge na tíre seo. Sílim go gcuidíonn a leithéid de chláir ní hamháin le muintir na Gaeltachta, ach le gach éinne a labhrann an Ghaeilge. Tá sé tábhachtach freisin go mbeadh daltaí in ann ceangal a dhéanamh sa seomra ranga, másféidir, idir na rudaí a tharlaíonn ar fud an domhain agus na rudaí a tharlaíonn ar leibhéal áitiúil. Nílsé ar intinn agam dul tríd na moltaí go léir atá sa tuarascáil. Aontaíonn gach éinne leo. Labhair Seanadóirí eile faoin róltábhachtach atá ag na coláistí samhraidh. Dúirt an Aire go bhfreastalaíonn thart ar 25,000 dalta ar na coláistí sa Ghaeltacht. Ní hamháin go bhfuil sé tábhachtach don Ghaeilge, tá sé tábhachtach mar tionscal freisin ó thaobh fhor- 5o’clock bairt eacnamaíochta na Gaeltachta agus ó thaobh na mná tí sna teaghlaigh ina bhfanann na scoláirí. Measaim gur féidir ardú substaintiúiladhéanamh ar an líon dalta a théann go dtí na coláistí Ghaeltachta. Aontaím leis na Seanadóirí adúirt gur chóir dúinn féachaint ar modh éigin inar féidir cúiteamh a thabhairt do theaghlaigh taobh amuigh den Ghaeltacht atá sástaabpáistí a chur chuig an Ghaeltacht ach nach bhfuil go leor airgead acu é sinadhéanamh. Go minic, chosnaíonn sé suas go dtí €1,000 chun scoláire a chur chuig coláiste samhraidh ar feadh trí seachtain. B’fhéidir nach bhfuil cuid mhór airgid den chineál sin ag tuismitheoirí sna cathracha agus sna bailte móra, agus gur fiú dúinn breathnú ar cúiteamh éigin a thabhairt dóibh. Tá a fhios agam go bhfuil cúiteamh substaintiúil ar fáil ón Roinn do na mná tí agus na coláistí.B’fhéidir gur chóir dúinn smaoineamh ar tacaíocht a chur ar fáil do na páistí agus na teaghlaigh. Tá mé cinnte go mbeidh an Rialtas ag breathnú ar an scéim sin a fhorbairt agus a neartú nuair a rachfaidh an tuarascáil ós comhair an bhfochoiste Rialtais. Ba chóir go mbeadh sé indéanta go rachfadh múinteoiríóga go dtí an Ghaeltacht le haghaidh tréimhse áirithe chun saol na Gaeltachta a fhianú agus iad ina chónaí i dtithe na ndaoine. Tá a fhios agam go bhfuil sé sin ag tarlú.B’fhéidir gur chóir dúinn breathnú ar dóigh inar féidir linn é sin a fhorbairt. Níl a fhios agam an féidir suí síos leis na coláistí traenála agus é sin a fhorbairt níos mó.Tá a fhios agam go bhfuil moladh déanta ó thaobh Coláiste Íosagáin i mBaile Bhúirne. Creidim gur fiú dúinn coláiste traenála do mhúinteoirí a lonnú sa Ghaeltacht. B’fhéidir gur cheist don Aire Oideachais agus Scileanna is ea an moladh ó thaobh Baile Bhúirne de. Ba cheart dúinn é a scrúdú.Bhí coláiste traenála i mBaile Bhúirne blianta fada ó shin. D’fhreastal Teachtaí agus Seanadóirí os na Tithí seo ar an gcoláiste sin. B’fhéidir gur fiú smao- ineamh arísarcoláiste oiliúna a lonnú sa Ghaeltacht. Is mian liom labhairt faoi roinnt de na moltaí eile. Tar éis dom labhairt le páistí—nílsé ró- fhada ón am ina raibh mé ag dul ar scoil — measaim nach bhfuil an curaclam chomh furasta nó tarraingteach agus gur chóir dó a bheith. Tá sé deacair dóibh siúdatá ag iarraidh an teanga a fhoglaim. Is é an dara moladh déag atá sa tuarascáil ná gur chóir ábhar scoile nua — siamsaí- ocht agus litríocht na Gaeilge — a thabhairt isteach. Bheadh sé sin go hiontach. B’fhiú dúinn béim a chur ar an ceol, an craic agus an spraoi a bhaineann leis an Ghaeilge. Déantar dearmad ar sin go minic sa churaclam atá ann faoi láthair. Tá an curaclam chomh leadránach go mbíonn 384 Irish Language: 2 November 2010. Motion sé deacair do dhaltaí an Ghaeilge a fhoglaim. Measaim go bhfuil an spórt agus an spraoi á chailliúnt againn. Tá na páistí ag cailliúnt suim sa churaclam. Ní thacaíonn sé sin leis na hiar- rachtaí atáádhéanamh againn an Ghaeilge a dhéanamh tarraingteach don ghlúin óg. Má táimid chun an sprioc atá leagtha amach sa tuarascáil — go mbeadh 250,000 duine in ann an Ghaeilge a labhairt go laethúil — a bhaint amach, caithfimid díriú isteach ar an gcuraclam scoile. Tá a fhios agam go bhfuil an ábhar seo clúdaithe sa tuarascáil. Measaim nach gcosnódh sé an oiread sin airgid. Bheadh sé ciallmhar agus chinnteodh sé go mbeadh an curaclam suimiúil do na páistí ionas go mbeidís in ann an Ghaeilge a fhoglaim. Tá an dóigh inar féidir leo dul go dtí an Ghaeltacht chun an teanga a fhoghlaim ceangailte agus fite fuaite le sin. Is mian liom caint faoi scéim na gcúntóirí teanga atá thar barr. Cuireann an Roinn tacaíocht ar fáil faoin scéim taobh istigh den Ghaeltacht. Labhraím go minic le múinteoirí agus tuismi- theoirí i gceantracha imeallacha Gaeltachta ina bhfuil an scéim seo i bhfeidhm. Ce go bhfuil an scéim iontach, tá sí faoi bhrú airgid. Measaim gur fiú dúinn breathnú ar an ábhar seo. B’fhiú an scéim a chur ar fáil ar fud na tíre, ní hamháin sa Ghaeltacht. Ní chosnódh sé an oiread sin airgid. Méid beag airgid atá i gceist. Tá buntáistí na scéime ó thaobh fhorbairt na teanga ag leibhéal na bunscoile an-tábhachtach. Molaim an obair atá déanta ag an bhfochoiste agus ag an Aire. Mar a dúirt sé, rachfaidh an tuarascáil seo ós comhair choiste an Rialtais i gceann coicíse nó mar sin. Tá súil agam go mbeidh sí foilsithe go luath sa bhliain nua. Mar comhalta de chuid Údarás na Gaeltachta, ba cheart dom a rá mar focal scoir go bhfuil sé criticiúil go mbeidh na cúraimí fiontraíochta coinnithe san údarás. Labhair Seanadóirí eile faoin ábhar seo freisin. Tá a fhios ag an Aire an tábhacht a bhaineann le seo. Labhair mé leis cúpla uair ar an gceist seo. Má táimid chun Gaeltacht bríomhar a bheith againn agus daoine a choinneáil inti, tá sé criticiúil go mbeadh postanna ar fáil sa bhaile ag na daoine sin. Muna bhfuil Údarás na Gaeltachta i bhfeidhm ar na cúraimí sin sa Ghaeltacht, ní bheidh eagras ar bith eile sásta nóábalta postanna a chur ar fáil. Iarraim ar an Aire a shúil a choimeádaran liathróid agus a chinntiú go gcoinneodh an t-údarásnacúraimí sin.

Senator Rónán Mullen: Ba bhreá liom fáilte a chur roimh an Aire. Tááthas orm go bhfuil an díospóireacht seo ar siúl sa Seanad. Ba mhaith liom fáilte a chur roimh an tríú tuarascáil agus ba mhaith liom tréaslú le gach duine a d’oibrigh go dian chun í a ullmhú dúinn. Is léir go bhfuil na moltaí ar fad a rinne an comhchoiste ar fheabhas agus ba chóir go nglacfar leo ina n- iomlán chun an straitéisaláidriú. Ba mhaith liom díriú isteach ar roinnt de na moltaí, ach sula ndéanaim sin, luafaidh mé rud a tharla dom inniu. Bhí mé mar aoi i Scoil Mhuire, meánscoil in Aonach Urmhumhan, agus bhí mé ag labhairt le roinnt ranganna ansin agus leis an múinteoir Gaeilge. Bhí mé an-tógtha le caighdeán a cuid Gaeilge, mar bhí Gaeilge iontach aici. Bhíomar ag greannaíocht faoi sin agus ag rá nach bhféadfaí ará igcónaí go mbíonn Gaeilge mhaith ag an múinteoir Ghaeilge, faraor. Dúirt sí liom gan dearmad a dhéanamh, nuair a bheinn ag labhairt leis na micléinn, an Ghaeilge a úsáid. Bhí an cheart ar fad aici é sin a mheabhrú dom. Má táimid ag iarraidh an Ghaeilge a chur chun cinn — sin a theastaíonn uainn uilig anseo — caithfimid a chinntiú go bhfuil an Ghaeilge feiceálach, go bhfuil fáilte roimpi agus go bhfuil sí sofheicthe i gcónaí. D’éist mé go géar leis an méidadúirt Seanadóirí eile agus lena dúirt an Seanadóir Ó Tuathail agus an Seanadóir Harris. Aontaím leo go bhfuil se an tábhachtach an bhéim a chur ar an Ghaeltacht agus a chinntiú go leanfaidh an Ghaeilge mar theanga dhúchais mhuintir na Gael- tachta. Ach seo áit ina gcaithfimid an dá thrá a fhreastal. Ní bheinnse ag labhairt i nGaeilge anseo inniu dá mbeimis ag cur béime ar an nGaeltacht amháin. Tá sé fíor-thábhachtach go ndéanaimid tréan iarracht an dá thrá a fhreastal i gcónaí. Caithfimid an Ghaeilge a dhaingniú agus a bhuanú sa Ghaeltacht agus gach iarrracht a dhéanamh chun sin a bhaint amach. Níla fhios agam an rachfainn chomh fada le daoine a íoc chun Gaeilge a labhairt, mar d’fhéadfadh 385 Irish Language: 2 November 2010. Motion

[Senator Rónán Mullen.] sin teacht salach ar mheon níos dearfaí a chothú i leith na Gaeilge sa tír. Is cinnte go gcaithfimid ár seacht ndícheall a dhéanamh. Ag an am céanna, caithfimid díriú isteach ar an nGaeilge mar ghnáththeanga labhartha sa Ghalltacht agus in áiteanna eile sa tír. Caithfimid féachaint céard is féidir linn a dhéanamh le cinntiú go bhfuil an Ghaeilge in úsáid agus go bhfuil sé furasta do dhaoine í a úsáid agus an deis acu sin a dhéanamh. Is ceist muiníne í seo. Is minic go ndúirt daoine liom go raibh áthas orthu mé a chloisteáil ag labhairt Gaeilge agus gur deas an rud é an Ghaeilge a chloisteáil. Cloisimid uilig ráitisí mar sin ó am go chéile, ach is léir nach bhfuil muinín acu dul sa seans iad féin, bíodh is go bhfuil go leor Gaeilge acu. Cénfáth nach bhfuil an mhuinín sin acu? Rud eile, caithfidh daoine an t- iarracht a dhéanamh iad féin. Tá cara agam a d’fhreastal ar dinnéar anseo liom san Oireachtas an tseachtain seo chaite. Labhair mé imBéarla agus i nGaeilge agus dúirt sé liom gur deas an rud é gur labhair mé i nGaeilge ar an ócáid sin. Bíonn an duine céanna sin ag gearán de bharr go bhfuil an teachtaireacht ar mo ghuthánpóca i nGaeilge. Ní féidir amharc ar an Ghaeilge mar teanga nó deis chun ócáid a mhaisiú. Caithfimid an Ghaeilge a chur chun cinn ar bhealaí praiticiúla agus caithfimid meon dearfach a chothú i measc daoine ionas nach mbeidís ag iar- raidh díreach cúpla focal a chloisteáil ar ócáid thábhachtach, ach go mbeidh siad sásta cabhrú le daoine an Ghaeilge a úsáid mar gnáth meán chumarsáide. Ba mhaith liom dul i ngleic le cuid de na moltaí. Aithnítear go forleathan gurb í gluaiseacht na ngaelscoileanna ceann de na rudaí is fearr agus is tábhachtaí i ndul chun cinn na Gaeilge i measc an phobail le 20 bliain anuas. Sa gcomhthéacs sin, is fiú díriú isteach ar mholadh a naoi a labhraíonn faoi soláthar dóthanach don ghaeloideachas do phobal uile na tíre a chinntiú agus suíomhanna do scoileanna nua a roghnú ag an Roinn Oideachais agus Scileanna. Bhí go leor cainte sna meáin chumarsáide le laethanta anuas faoin méid airgid a bhí an Roinn sásta a íoc le haghaidh suíomhanna do bhunscoileanna, ach ba chóir dúinn díriú isteach ar chéard atá ar siúl i Rath Tó, áit inar osclaíodh gaelscoil i mí Lúnasa na bliana seo gan aitheantas oifigiúil ón Roinn. Tá deichniúr dalta ag freastal ar an scoil. Thóg an coiste bunaithe cinneadh cróga chun dul ar aghaidh leis an scoil mar go gcreididís gur cóir go mbeadh rogha ag tuismitheoirí Rath Tó abpáistí a oiliúint trí Ghaeilge. Chuir an coiste bileog mhaith dhátheangach amach ag iarraidh aitheantas don ghaelscoil anois agus cé nach bhfuil ach deichniúr sa scoil faoi láthair, tá sé beartaithe 39 daltaí nua a bheith ann an bhliain seo chugainn agus 35 an bhliain ina dhiaidh sin. Nílsé sásúil go ndéarfaimís go bhfuil sé de cheart ag daoine Gaeilge a bheith acu agus gaeloideachas a chur ar fáil dá bpáistí muna bhfuilimid sásta na hacmhainní a chur ar fáil do sin. Baineann moladh a seacht le tábhacht an Chomhairle um Oideachas Gaeltachta agus Gael- scolaíochta, COGG. Deirtear go bhfuil sé tábhachtach an chomhairle a athbhunú mar fhoras reachtúil le cumhachtaí sainnithe i leith ionadaíocht a dhéanamh ar thuairimí agus ar mholtaí na bpáirtithe. Tá sé iontach tábhachtach go mbeadh ról na comhairle cinnte agus aitheanta go dlíthiúil agus go mbeadh COGG in ann acmhainní múinteoireachta agus eile a sholáthar don ghaelscolaíocht. Mar a dúirt mé níos luaithe, tá se fíor-thábhachtach go ndíreoimid isteach ar céard atá ag dul ar aghaidh go maith — an ghaelscolaíocht. Sin an cruthúnas nach sa Ghaeltacht amháin atá todhchaí na Gaeilge le haimsiú. I mo chásféin, is cuimhin liom, nuair a bhí mé san ollscoil i nGaillimh, cé chomh bríomhar agus a bhí an cumann éigse agus seanchais agus an cumann drámaíochta. Is cuimhin liom an obair fíor-thábhachtach a rinne Peadar Mac an Iomaire agus oifig na Gaeilge labhartha, chomh maith leis an fhoireann acadúil Gaeilge sa choláiste. Táim cinnte freisin go bhfuil an-dul chun cinn déanta i múineadh na Gaeilge ó bhí mise sa mheánscoil nó san ollscoil. Labhair an Seanadóir Ó Domhnaill faoi spraoi agus cé chomh tábhachtach agus atá sé go mbeadh ábhair eile á mhúineadh trí Ghaeilge, go háirithe nuair atá 386 Irish Language: 2 November 2010. Motion spraoi ag baint leo. Sa gcomhthéacs sin, b’fhiú dom tréaslú le Conradh na Gaeilge as an sár- obair atáádhéanamh ag an grúpa sin. Deirtear dá mba tír é Facebook, go mbeadh sé in áit an triú tírismó ar domhan toisc go bhfuil 500 milliún duine ar anois. Tá 5,000 acu siúd mar cháirde Chonradh na Gaeilge. Is ansin freisin atá todhchaí na Gaeilge. Mar sin, is ceart díriú ar an nGaeltacht, ach is ceart freisin díriú ar chaighdeánmúineadh na Gaeilge sna bunscoile- anna. Mar shampla, ba chóir go mbeadh an deis acu siúdatá ag freastal ar na coláistí traenála tosnú leis an trí seachtain sa Ghaeltacht in ionad fanacht go dtí an samhradh i ndiaidh traenála chun tréimhse a chaitheamh sa Ghaeltacht. Mar atá luaite sa tuarascáil freisin, ba chóir go mbeadh an deis ag daoine atá ag déanamh staidéir ar an nGaeilge san ollscoil le bheith ina múinteoirí meánscoile dul chuig an Ghaeltacht ar an scéim Erasmus agus go mbeadh an meas céanna ar thréimhse a chaith duine sa Ghaeltacht. Mar fhocal scoir, ba mhaith liom rud a rá faoi luachanna inár scoileanna. Táim páirteach i mbainistíocht i go leor meánscoileanna agus tá a fhios agam go ndeirtear i gcónaí go bhfuil sé tábhachtach na tuismitheoirí a thabhairt isteach le go dtuigfidís éiteas na scoile agus an tacaí- ocht ón Roinn do sin, cur i gcás i gcomhthéacs reiligiúin. Ba chóir an meon céanna a bheith againn i leith na Gaeilge agus go mbeadh sé lárnach in éiteas na scoile nach amháin go bhfuil Gaeilge á mhúineadh inti go caighdeán ard, ach go bhfuil tacaíocht di ó daoine eile sa bhfoire- ann agus ó na tuismitheoirí. Caithfimid smaoineamh ar bealaí chun na tuismitheoirí a mheal- ladh isteach i bpróiseas mhúineadh na Gaeilge do daltaí i mbunscoileanna agus meán- scoileanna.

Senator : Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire. Ba mhaith liom cúpla focal a rá faoin straitéis 20 bliain don Ghaeilge, a ritheann ó 2010 go 2030. Tá an Ghaeilge go mór faoi bhrú de bharr an forbairt forleathan atá tagtha ar na meáin cumarsáide domhanda, atá ag leathnú tionchar na Béarla i measc gach cultúr. Is féidir linn fórsaí láidre, ar nós an Idirlíon agus na teicneolaíochtaí cumarsáide nua-aimseartha, a úsáid chun saibhreas agus luach ár gcultúra chosaint. Ba chóir dúinn an tuarascáil seo a úsáid chun tuairimí iad siúd a bhfuil grá acu d’ár teanga náisiúntaathógaint díreach go dtí an Rialtas. Tá súil agam go scrúdóidh comhaltaí an Rialtas na moltaí seo go cúramach. Má chuirtear i bhfeidhm iad, neartóidh siad an Ghaeilge agus chabhróidh siad linn ár tiomantas don teanga a chothú agus a fhás. The Irish language is subject to an enormous onslaught by the media worldwide, whereby every culture is being saturated by the English language. However, the worldwide web and modern communications technology are creative forces which we can use to exhibit the richness and value of the Gaelic culture and our consciousness. We should not miss this opportunity. I am confident, therefore, that the Government will carefully consider the proposals which, if implemented, will add to and strengthen the commitment to the Irish language. A number of the recommendations made in the report spring to mind and on which I wish to elaborate briefly. There is the recommendation that Údarás na Gaeltachta retain the primary function of developing the economy and infrastructure of the Gaeltacht. I am not sure whether the Minister has done this, but it would be helpful to and those who support the concept behind Údarás na Gaeltachta and the wonderful work it has been doing through the decades if a statement of intent as to its future was made. The Minister has made some comments in this regard, but perhaps he might elaborate on them with particular reference to the future role of Údarás na Gaeltachta. One or two of the recommendations made caught my eye as being original. It is proposed, for example, to locate a city and regional social centre in Dublin city with facilities for the arts, a cafeteria and other relevant facilities to aid the functioning of a social network for the youth of Dublin and surrounding counties. It is an admirable idea, although I do not know how it would work in practice. An infrastructure is being developed on a pilot basis in towns and 387 Irish Language: 2 November 2010. Motion

[Senator Paschal Mooney.] villages of youth cafes which are proving successful. In my town of Drumshanbo a former courthouse building has been converted with the help of North Connaughton Youth and Com- munity Services and the County Leitrim Partnership and will provide facilities for the youth of the town and district. It is an innovative idea which, even a decade ago, would have seemed like pie in the sky in a small town of 800 souls. It is being replicated and enthusiastically embraced across the country where funds permit. I have no problem with young people spend- ing their leisure time in public houses, although if they are under 18 years of age, they should not be in them. However, it is a sad fact of life that if one wants to play pool or meet one’s school friends somewhere to have a chat, invariably it is the local public house which provides the facility in a small town or village. In that context, this suggestion, although centred on Dublin city, is an admirable one and perhaps worthy of further consideration by the Government. Another recommendation which should be highlighted is that it should be confirmed that a policy bilingualism will not apply in the Gaeltacht or be implemented therein by default. I am not an expert in this regard, but there has been creeping colonialism since the foundation of the State. It is akin to coastal erosion in that the natural and geographic hinterland of what was the Gaeltacht is being eroded. At a time of seismic change in Irish society in the post- Famine period, Irish started to lose its place as the national language. This was driven as much by emigration as the desire of parents for their children to learn Bearla to enable them to advance in the professions which our kind colonial masters were beginning to open up to the Irish peasantry. By the time the State was founded in 1922, the Irish language was in decline. It is a sad reflection on successive Governments that the policies adopted to retain, support and advance it have failed utterly to the point where it is now under threat. I strongly support the recommendation that we hold what we have. Encroachment into the Gaeltacht happens in subtle ways. In the council adopted a policy, although not without controversy, of ensuring those going to live in council houses in Gaeltacht areas would be able to speak a minimum amount of Irish. That is perfectly acceptable, although it may not be to those looking to live in these areas. If we are serious, therefore, about keeping what we have and building on its strengths, there is no room for a policy of bilingualism in Gaeltacht areas. However, I am a strong supporter of pursuing a policy of bilingualism outside these areas. In terms of ensuring the future of Irish in the rest of the country where it is not spoken as the first language, the best way forward for the Government is to adopt a policy of bilingualism. I remember having a conversation on this point with Micheál Ó Muircheartaigh when he was chairman of Bord na Geailge. He was a strong supporter of adopting such an approach and I was converted to the view that the best hope for the retention of Irish as a living language was to progress toward bilingualism and that people use their cúpla focal. I add a caveat and preface my remarks by saying I have always been treated with great courtesy and efficiency in my contacts with Departments. However, on a number of occasions when I said, “Dia duit, oifig an Aire le do thoil,” I was met with bewilderment. It might be the case that I did not speak or was not heard properly because, as 99.9% of calls are made as Bearla, people are not mentally tuned in when they hear Irish being spoken. The usual response to my request is, “Excuse me, what did you say?” I am not for one moment suggesting the telephone operators in Departments do not understand basic Irish, as I am sure it forms part of the requirements of the job in the first place because a policy of bilingualism is provided for in the Constitution and there is parity. While I raise the issue, I am not sure what the answer is. I am not for one moment suggesting a Taliban-type approach should be adopted and that a memorandum should be sent to Departments to ensure those who answer the telephones are proficient in Irish because I am sure they are. This is where a policy of bilingualism can start 388 Irish Language: 2 November 2010. Motion to flourish, by using simple language or, when addressing somebody in a letter, by using “Pascal a chara” iinstead of “Dear Paschal” and finishing by using “Is mise le meas” instead of “Yours sincerely”. These are small steps, but perhaps they might lead to a return to the culture which was part of the Irish psyche. We have all come through the education system and spent 15 years learning the language, yet we are not in a position to speak it fluently. Building on the basic structure in place is the way forward. I commend the report and the Minister for the manner in which he has highlighted the importance of the Irish language and his fluency in it. The fact that he comes from and his background as a teacher have been very helpful in that regard. All I can suggest is that he keep up the good work.

Senator : Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire. Tá moladh amháin as na 38 nó 39 moltaí i tuarascáil an fochoiste curtha i bhfeidhm againn, ar a laghad. Is dócha gur tús maith leath na hoibre. Tá súil agam go mbeidh an 38 moladh eile curtha i bhfeidhm go sciobtha. Ar a laghad, ba chóir go mbeidís mar pháirt don straitéis 20 bliain. Aontaím leis an Aire go mbraitheann todhchaí na teanga go príomha ar na daoine. Is cinnte go ndéanfaidh na daoine a gcuid cinntí féin ar cé chomh fairsing is a bheidh úsáid na teanga — an rachfaidh an Ghaeilge ó neart go neart, nó an éireoidh sí níos laige — san am atá amach romhainn. Is é an fáth go bhfuilimid ag plé le straitéis i dtúsbáire ná go bhfuil gá ann treoir a thabhairt don tír maidir leis an treo ina rachfaidh an teanga sa todhchaí.Tá sé de dhualgas ag eagrais an Stáit cuidiú leo siúdatá ag machnamh ar an cheist pearsanta seo. Caithfimid a chinntiú nach bhfuil eagrais an Stáit ag cur bac ar dhaoine nuair atá an cheist á phlé acu. Caithfimid cabhrú leo siúdatá ag iarraidh an Ghaeilge a úsáid mar teanga labhartha a chuid teaghlaigh. Nílmé ag iarraidh bheith diúltach nuair a deirim go bhfuil go leor samplaí d’fhadhbanna den sórt seo. Tá na fadhbanna maidir le Gaelscoil Ráth Tó luaite cheana. Tá deich dalta sa scoil sin ag feidhmiú gan tacaíocht Stáit. Ní sin an ceist iomlán. Is maith an rud é go bhfuil cinneadh déanta ag aithreacha agus máithreacha na páistí oideachas a lorg dóibh trí mhéan na Gaeilge. Ba cheart don Stáit tacú leis an gcinneadh sin. Ar an taobh eile den scéal, bhí an cinneadh céanna déanta ag níos mó ná an deichniúra luaigh mé.Tá an t-eolas sin agam os rud é go raibh mé ag plé le dhaoine atá ag déileáil le Gaelscoil Ráth Tó. Nuair nach raibh an t-aitheantas ar fáil agus nuair nach raibh a fhios ag tuismitheoirí an mbeadh aon gaelscoil ann amach anseo, nó an mbeadh tacaíocht oideachais ag teacht ónStáit, ní raibh aon rogha acu seachas an cinneadh sin a dhéanamh. Bhí an ceart ag an Aire nuair a dúirt sé gur cinneadh pearsanta é.Tá sé suas don té a intinn fhéin a dhéanamh suas. Tá sé soiléir, áfach, nach mbíonn tacaíocht an Stáit ar fáiligcónaí nuair a dhéanann daoine a gcuid cinntí féin. Leanann daoine ar aghaidh agus déanann siad iarracht na constaicíéagsúla a scartáil. In a láncásanna, ní raibh cuid acu siúd a rinne an cinneadh seo maidir le oideachas a bpáistí in ann an cinneadh a chur i bhfeidhm. Tá ceist an straitéis 20 bliain ina iomlán i bhfad níos tábhachtaí ná an cheist amháin sin. Níl mé ag iarraidh beag a dhéanamh den scéal sin. Nuair atáimid ag déileáil le seo, nílimid ag lorg polasaithe le haghaidh inniu nó amárach ach polasaithe a mhairfidh 20 bliain. Tá sé iontach tábhachtach go bhfuil tacaíocht na páirtithe uilig againn don straitéis. Ní rud don Rialtas amháin í an straitéis. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Rialtas as ucht an obair atá déanta aige ó thaobh an dréachtstraitéis. Caithfidh gach páirtí bheith taobh thiar de na straitéise. Tá sé níos tábhachtaí fós go bhfuil an pobal taobh thiar de na straitéise. Tá ceisteanna móra le freagairt ag na páirtithe polaitiúla uilig sa Seanad agus sa Dáil. Tá sé ráite agam go minic go bhfuil an dréachtstraitéis go maith. Nil dabht ar bith ná go bhfuil go leor polasaithe iontach maith curtha chun tosaigh ag an Rialtas tríd an comhchoiste aireachta, go háirithe ó thaobh an oideachas, an tumoideachas agus an luathtumoideachas, srl. 389 Irish Language: 2 November 2010. Motion

[Senator Pearse Doherty.] Bhí mé ar an bhfochoiste a bhí ag déileáil leis an próiseas comhairliúcháin agus a tháinig aníos leis na moltaí seo. Cé gur straitéis maith í an dréachtstraitéis, aithnímid go bhfuil laigí inti freisin. Táimid ag iarraidh straitéis iontach maith, in ionad straitéis maith, a bheith againn. Is í an laige is mó atá sa dréachtstraitéis ná nach n-aithníonn sé na fadhbanna atá sa Ghaeltacht. Ba é an chéad moladh a chuir an fochoiste chun tosaigh ná go n-aithneofar sa straitéis go bhfuil géarchéim inmhartha sa Ghaeltacht. Ní chosnódh sé pingin rua don Rialtas rud chomh éasca a dhéanamh. Trí bhliain ó shin, chaitheamar €500,000 ar staidéar ar úsáid na Gaeilge sa Ghael- tacht. Ina dhiadh sin, moladh nach mbeadh an cheantar is láidre Gaeltachta ina Ghaeltacht — mar atá aithne againn ar an nGaeltacht — i gceann 15 nó 20 bliain. Smaoiním go minic ar an moladh sin a tháinig as staidéar a rinneadh trí bliana ó shin. Ní mórdúinn a aithint go bhfuil an clog ag bualadh orainn. Tá go leor moltaí sa tuarascáil seo. Sonraíonn ceann amháin de na 38 moltaí gur cheart don tuarascáil bheith pléite sa Dáil, agus tarlóidh sé sin. Dá bhrí sin, táimid ag caint faoi 37 moltaí indáiríre. Tá cuid de na moltaí iontach simplí.Tá a fhios againn go bhfuilimid i gcruachás eacnamaíochta ag an am seo. Ní chosnódh cuid de na moltaí leathphingin. Muna féidir linn aithint go bhfuil géarchéim sa Ghaeltacht, ní féidir linn dul i ngleic leis. Bíonn grúpaí ar nós Conradh na Gaeilge, atá ag feidhmiú ar son na Gaeilge agus ar son na Gaeltachta, ag caint faoi comharthaí bóthair an t-am ar fad. B’fhéidir go ceapann daoine gur rudaí simplí iad, ach tá sé tábhachtach go mbíonn na leagain Béarla agus Gaeilge feiceálach. Níl éinne á rá gur chóir na comharthaí atá ann cheana féin a bhaint síos maidin amárach. Nuair a thagann an t-am chun comharthaí bóthair nua a chur suas, ar a laghad ba cheart dóibh a bheith dátheangach taobh amuigh den Ghaeltacht, agus leis an leagan Ghaeilge chomh feiceál- ach agus ar an gcló céanna leis an leagan Béarla. Ní chosnódh sé pingin sa bhreis é sin a dhéanamh. Ar an mbealach céanna, ní chosnódh sé pingin an straitéis a thabhairt ós comhair Tithe an Oireachtais, i gcomhthéacs an dul chun cinn atáádhéanamh againn ó thaobh cur i bhfeidhm na straitéise. Tá súil agam go mbeidh rudaí mar sin clúdaithe nuair atá an straitéis deiridh á fhoilsiú go luath. Ba mhaith liom díriú isteach ar cúpla laigí sa straitéis. Tá sé iontach deacair dúinn sa Stát seo dul i ngleic leis an phobal láidir Ghaeilge — Gaeltachta, fiú—sna Sé Chontae. Sa bhfís atááchur chun tosaigh againn, ba cheart dúinn aon tacaíocht gur féidir linn a sholáthar don phobal sin. Mhol an dréachtstraitéis go dtabharfadh an Rialtas aitheantas do bhreac-Ghael- tachtaí,arnós an Ghaeltacht nua atá bunaithe i mBaile Átha Cliath agus aon Ghaeltacht nua eile in áit ar bith eile taobh amuigh den Ghaeltacht, chomh fada is go bhfuil na critéir chomhlíonta. Silim gur cheart é sin a leathnú go dtí an oileán ar fad. Is mór an trua é nach bhfuil níos mó ama agam. Má tá an tAire chun moladh amháin a chur i bhfeidhm, ba cheart dúinn díriú isteach ar an gComhairle um Oideachas Gaeltachta agus Gaelscolaíochta, COGG, a bhunú go hoifigiúil. Níos mó ná aon moladh eile, chabhródh sé linn inchur a dhéanamh sa bhfhísatá ag an Rialtas agus pobal na tíre ar fad an Ghaeilge a chur chun cinn. Níl an Roinn Oideachais agus Scileanna ag tabhairt an tacaíocht ceart do na gaelsco- ileanna agus na scoileanna Gaeltachta. Caithfear COGG, atá páirteach sa phróiséas comhairliú- cháin, a bhunú go reachtúil. Tá a fhios agam go bhfuil Páirtí Fhianna Fáil faoi bhrú ag an am seo. B’fhéidir nach mbeidh cuid againn anseo tar éis an chéad toghchán eile. Másféidir leis an Aire an polásaí seo a chur i bhfeidhm, beidh aird millteanach air mar dhuine, ar nós iad siúd a rinne rudaí móra ó thaobh na Gaeilge san am atá thart. Tá mé ag smaoineamh ar bhunú TG4, mar shampla. Is féidir rud mór mar sin, le himpleachtaí móra, a dhéanamh trí COGG a bhunú mar fhoras reachtúil a rachfaidh i ngleic leis na fadhbanna atá sa ghaeloideas. Nílam agam iad go léir a phlé.Tá a fhios agam gur léigh an Aire an tuairisc a tháinig amach ar na 390 Irish Language: 2 November 2010. Motion mallaibh maidir leis na fadhbanna atá ag cainteoirí dúchais sa ghaeloideas. Dúirt an tuairisc sin nach bhfuil an béim ceart á chur ar na cainteoirí dúchais. Mhol cúpla cainteoir gur cheart dúinn cúrsaí siamsaíochta a mhúineadh sa chóras oideachais. Nílimid ag caint mar gheall ar a leithéid de rud. Tá deacrachtaí anseo ó thaobh an tslí ina bhfuil an Ghaeilge á theagasc le haghaidh an ardteistiméireacht, go háirithe. Tá sé ráite ag Fine Gael go gcuirfidh siad deireadh leis an Ghaeilge mar ábhar riachtanach. Cuirim fáilte roimh an ráiteas ó urlabhraí an phairtí adúirt go ndéanfaidh Fine Gael athbhreathnú ar an bpolasaí sin. Is rud maith é sin. Má táimid dáiríre faoin straitéis 20 bliain, caithfidh gach páirtí bheith aontai- the ar an gceist seo. Cé go gcaithfidh an Ghaeilge bheith mar ábhar riachtanach, b’fhéidir gur féidir linn rogha a thabhairt do mhic léinn maidir le saíocht agus litríocht na Gaeilge. Ba cheart dúinn iad a bhaint amach as an ábhar atá againn i láthair na huaire agus ábhar eile a dhéanamh dóibh. D’fhéad- fadh cainteoirí dúchais as an Ghaeltacht agus daoine a bhfuil suim acu sa Ghaeilge an ábhar nua a dhéanamh, sa dóigh is go mbeidh saibhreas na teanga againn dos na glúinte atá le teacht. Tá sin iontach tábhachtach. Tharla rudaí ar na mallaibh ó thaobh 40% de na marcanna san ardteistiméireacht a leithdháileadh le haghaidh labhairt na Gaeilge. Is maith an rud é sin os rud é go gcabhraíonn sé le go leor daltaí.Aganamcéanna, áfach, nílanchóras oideachais ag tabhairt an t-aitheantas ceart dóibh siúd a bhfuil ábaltacht saibhir acu ó thaobh na Gaeilge. Níl am agam dul tríd na moltaí go léir. Tá súil agam go ndéanfaidh an Aire, an Teachta Pat Carey, an rud ceart agus go mbeidh na moltaí seo mar pháirt don straitéis sa dóigh is gur féidir linn uilig tacaíocht a thabhairt don straitéis go huile is go hiomlán. Tá an obair atáádhéanamh faoin bpróiseas seo ag fáil lán-tacaíocht ó pobal na Gaeltachta agus pobal na Gaeilge. Ba cheart go mbeadh an tuarascáil seo ina scéal maith, ach ní bheidh sé má fágtar cuid de na moltaí móra amach as an straitéis nuair atá sé foilsithe. Guím gach rath ar an Aire agus na cinntí móra á déanamh aige.

Senator Maurice Cummins: Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire. Cé nach bhfuil Gaeilge chleachtaithe agam, úsáidfidh mé cúpla focal anseo is ansiúd. It is nice to hear Irish being spoken by so many Senators. While I cannot speak the language as well as I should be able to, I understand it, even if I am much more familiar with than Donegal Irish. The topic of the Irish language came up in a recent conversation I had with six or seven young people, all of whom were in their first or second year at university. Notwithstanding the fact that all of them had passed Irish in the leaving certificate examination, only one or two could string two or three sentences together in Irish. There is something wrong if, after ten or 12 years learning Irish at primary and secondary level, young people are unable to speak more than a few sentences of Irish. I have been out of school longer than I wish to remember, but I could still string together more sentences in Irish than these young people who only recently completed their schooling. Whether this is a result of the manner in which Irish is taught, the way in which children think of the language or some other reason, clearly there is something wrong with the system if people who have been taught it for years are unable to string together a few sentences of Irish. I asked the young people in question how it was possible that they had passed oral Irish in the leaving certificate examination. They informed me that one could pass the examination by learning by heart certain aspects of the syllabus. Students practise the answers to questions they will be asked in the oral examination and, in many cases, do not understand the questions or answers. I do not know if having Irish as a compulsory subject is a turn-off. It would probably be better if only those who wanted to learn Irish and whose heart was in learning it were taught it rather than pushing people to study the language against their will. While it would be regret- table if students were not taught Irish for the leaving certificate, people must want to speak a 391 Irish Language: 2 November 2010. Motion

[Senator Maurice Cummins.] language if they are to make progress. In that regard, the three or four weeks I spent on Inisheer learning Irish while at school were among the most enjoyable weeks of my life. Although has a Gaeltacht, we considered it better to travel as far from home as possible. Many of the recommendations made in the report of the joint committee are excellent, but I wonder if they will gather dust until another report is compiled by another committee in eight or ten years. Strong support, not solely financial, should be provided for Gaeltacht areas because they do tremendous work. Local authorities are to be commended for the positive role they have played in promoting the use of Irish. Many of them provide Irish classes for members of staff who learn the language because they want to do so. That is the secret of success. I oppose the requirement that local authorities and State bodies print copies of their annual reports in Irish. This practice, provided for in law, is a waste of money. The money required for printing could be used to promote spoken Irish rather than to print an annual report or booklet which only two or three people will request. Surely such reports should be translated in some manner and then published on the Internet. The report recommends that students and teachers spend periods in the Gaeltacht in a man- ner similar to the system available for minority languages under the ERASMUS programme. This is a good suggestion because teachers need to take regular refresher courses. In many schools substitute teachers who are not fully qualified in Irish are instructing pupils in the language. They are marking time, as it were. I commend the members of the joint committee who were involved in producing the report. I agree with many of their recommendations and hope the worthwhile proposals made will be acted upon as opposed to being consigned to filing cabinets in the relevant Department. I hope the teaching of Irish will be revamped because, sadly, the current approach is not working. A complete rethink of the teaching of Irish is required, particularly as many students are leaving school unable to speak the language after spending years learning it.

Minister for Community, Equality and Gaeltacht Affairs (Deputy Pat Carey): Togha díos- póireacht a bhí againn um thráthnóna. Is rud nua é sin. Bhí an díospóireacht chomh nádúrtha agus a chuala mé riamh anseo nó in aon áit eile. An deireadh seachtaine seo caite, bhí seans agam freastal ar Oireachtas na Samhna i gCill Áirne. Mar a dúirt mé go iriseoir níos déanaí, am éigin déanach go leor i rith oíche Dé hAoine bhuail mé le súnámaí den chéad ghlúin eile de Gaeilgeóirí na tíre. Chuir sé gliondar chroí orm go rabhadar chomh nádúrtha, bríomhar agus neartmhar agus iad ag spalpadh Gaeilge, ag amhránaíocht agus ag damhsa. Ar an Satharn, bhí an amharclann in Óstán Ghleann an Iolair lán go doras le daoine ag féachaint ar na comór- tais rince agus amhránaíochta. An tseachtain roimhe sin, bhí Jedward san amharclann céanna. Bhí an méid céanna daoine ag féachaint ar na comórtais agus a bhí ag éisteacht le Jedward agus an dream a tháinig leo. Bhí TG4 ag craoladh gach rud, beo ar dtús ach ansin bhí fadhb leis an líne idir an stiúideo agus Cill Áirne. An pointe atáádhéanamh agam ná go bhfuil todhchaí na Gaeilge agus na Gaeltachta an-dhearfach ar fad. Ní fúmsa ná faoin Rialtas é sin. Ní féidir liom tagairt go sonrach faoi aon cheann de na moltaí sa straitéis, ach tá gach ceann tábhachtach. Iarrfaidh a lán daoine go mbeidh rudaí faoi leith lárnach sa straitéis, mar shampla, ról na dtuismitheoirí, agus iarrfaidh siad go dtabharfaí cúnamh do thuismitheoirí a rogha teanga a phiocadh do scolaíocht dá bpáistí. Labhair an Seanadóir Ó Domhnaill faoi scéim na gcúntóirí teanga agus an ionad in Indreabhán. Ba cheart dúinn cur le hionaid mar sin bliain i ndiaidh bliana, sna bailte agus sna cathrachta, lasmuigh den Ghaeltacht agus laistigh di. Aontaím le gach duine a labhair faoin tábhacht atá leis an gcóras oideachais sa straitéis. Tá sé tábhachtach, ach caithfimid bheith cúramach. Ní tharlóidh sé as a stuaim féin. Mar a dúirt 392 Irish Language: 2 November 2010. Motion go leor cainteoirí,tá sé tábhachtach go gcuireann muid béim ar an churaclam, an mhúinteoire- acht, ar traenáil cheart do mhúinteoirí agus ar seans a thabhairt do mhúinteoiríóga an Ghaeilge a fhoglaim sna Gaeltachtaí.Issatslí sin a bheidh muid in ann tacaíocht a thabhairt do na Gaeltachtaí chun úsáid na Gaeilge a leathnú amach lasmuigh den Ghaeltacht. Cé go bhfuil na Gaelscoileanna an-thábhachtach, tá na gnáth scoileanna tábhachtach chomh maith. Bhí ceisteanna ag roinnt daoine faoin tábhacht atá leis An Chomhairle um Oideachas Gael- tachta agus Gaelscolaíochta, COGG. Tá moladh faoi sin sa tuarascáil. Mar a dúirt mé cheana, tá gach moladh á phlé i mo Roinn agus i Ranna eile, go háirithe an Roinn Oideachais agus Scileanna agus caithfimid an cheist sin a phlé leo sula dtógfaidh mé an straitéis go dtí an fochoiste ar an 17 Samhain. Cloisim na moltaí atááchur ag Seanadóirí anseo. Ní féidir liom móráneileará faoin COGG, mar tá ceisteanna achmhainne, maoinithe agus polasaí i gceist freisin. Scrúdóidh mé na rudaí sin go léir. Maidir le ról Údarás na Gaeltachta, tá sé cinnte go dtiocfaidh athrú ar an ról sin. Tá mo thuairimí féin agam mar gheall ar na cúraimí gur ceart a bheith ag an údarás. Mar atá a fhios ag gach éinne, ba mhaith liom cur leis na dualgaisí atá ag an údarás. Labhair an Seanadóir Ó Tuathail faoi na jabanna a cruthaíodh sna Gaeltachtaí.Léigh mé tuarascáil an údaráis 2009 cúpla láóshin. Cruthaíodh 158 jabanna i gContae Ciarraí, mar shampla, i 2009. Ní dóigh liom gur chruthaigh mórán eagrais eile an méid sin jabanna in aon chontae amháin. Tá píblíne mhaith jabanna fósaganúdarásmór thimpeall na tíre. Caithfimid na dualgaisí atá ag an údarás faoi láthair agus na dualgaisí breise a bheidh aige amach anseo a mheas idir seo agus lárna bliana seo chugainn. Ansin, caithfidh mise nó pé Aire a bheidh ann ag an am sin, reachtaíocht nua a thabhairt faoi bhráid an Oireachtais chun na dualgaisí sin a thabhairt don údarás. Caithfi- mid cuimhniú ar chúrsaí achmhainne sa chás seo chomh maith. Straitéis 20 bliain atá i gceist agus ní féidir gach rud a dhéanamh in aon bhliain amháin. Bhí seiminéar ar siúl i gCill Áirne ag an deireadh seachtaine agus dúirt duine amháin — ní theas- taíonn uaim é a ainmniú ach tá meas agam ar a thuairimí—gur ceart go mbeadh solúbthacht sa straitéis. Chomh maith le sin, is cóir a bheith feasach go dtógfaidh sé beagán 6o’clock níos mó ama chun an straitéis a chur le chéile tar éis na reachtaíochta. Ní féidir linn a thosnú díreach, mar shampla, ar an gcéad lá de mhí Eanáir an bhliain seo chugainn. Tógfaidh sé tuilleadh ama, cé nach dteastaíonn uaim go mbeidh fanacht fada orainn. Bíonn seans agam dul timpeall na tíre agus buaileadh le grúpaí, Thuaidh agus Theas. Tá 24,000 grúpaí san earnáil phoiblí sa tír seo, cuid mhaith díobh ag plé le ceist na Gaeilge agus cultúr agus mar sin de. Bhí mé i mBaile Ghib tamall ó shin agus thug mé cuairt ar Ghaelscoil ina bhfuil ceithre mhúinteoir agus thug mé faoi deara an comhoibriú atá idir an scoil, Comhaltas CeoltóiríÉireann agus Cuman Lúthcleas Gael ansin. Mar sin, is léir go bhfuil gréasáin Gaelach mór thimpeall na tíre atá réidh chun na pleananna Gaeilge a chur i bhfeidhm. Bhí mé i gCea- tharlach tamall ó shin, áitambíonn mini-oireachtas ar siúl. Chomh maith leis an mini- oireachtas, tá naíonraí, Gaelscoileanna, Gaelcholáistí agus institiúd i gCeatharlach. Tá seans ann go bhféadfadh siadsan cur leis an Ghaeilge agus an cultúr. Thug mé cuairt freisin ar Bhéal Feirste agus chuig an cultúrlann i Bóthar na bhFál. Ba chóir dúinn teagmháil a dhéanamh leis na gréasáin sa Tuaisceart agus d’fhéadfadh muidne agus iadsan aithris a dhéanamh ar cad atá ar siúlinár gceantair. Táimse an-dhearfach faoin straitéis agus táim cinnte gur féidir linn an sprioc a aimsiú i gceann 20 bliain. Níl a fhios agam cé a bheidh anseo sa bhliain 2030. Is dóigh go mbeidh duine nó beirt as na daoine atá anseo anois fós anseo, ach ní bheidh mise. Táim cinnte, áfach, go mbeidh fás an-mhóraranméid daoine a mbeidh úsáid á bhaint acu as an Ghaeilge faoi sin. Labhair an Seanadóir Mooney faoin dátheangachas. Tá rólagandátheangachas, ach caithfidh muid díriú ar conas gur féidir linn sin a dhéanamh. Mar shampla, teastaíonn ó mhuintir Ceatharlach 393 Drug Treatment 2 November 2010. Services

[Deputy Pat Carey.] go mbeidh stádas dhátheangach ag Baile Ceatharlach i gceann cúpla bliain. Is dócha go mbeidh siad in ann an aidhm sin a aimsiú agus tuig linn cur le sin bliain i ndiaidh a chéile. Maradúirt mé cheana, tá cuid mhaith nótaí glactha agam anseo. Déanfaidh mé macnamh ar ghach ceann agus pléfidh mé iad le m’oifig. Beidh cruinniú den choiste — muna dtagann rud éigin eadrainn — ar an 17 Samhain agus go luath ina dhiaidh sin ba mhaith liom an straitéis a chur faoi bhráid an Rialtais agus í a aontú agus ansin ba mhaith liom í a chur faoi bhráid an phobail. Tá súil agam ansin go mbeidh an Dáil agus an Seanad in ann teacht ar ais, abair dhá uair sa bhliain, chun ceisteanna a bhaineann leis an straitéis a phlé agus chun scrúdú adhéan- amh ar conas a bhfuil ag éirí linn léi. Tá géarchéim eacnamaíochta ann faoi láthair agus d’fhéad- fadh daoine a rá nach féidir móránadhéanamh. Is leis an pobal an straitéis agus tá an pobal réidh. Ní theastaíonn mórán airgid, i dtoscach ar aon chuma, chun tús a chur leis an straitéis. Tá tús maith déanta cheana ag na heagrais. Tá a fhios agam go bhfuil imní ar roinnt daoine — tá cuid acu sa Teach inniu — mar gheall ar an ról a bheidh acu. Beidh ról an-thábhachtach ag na heagrais sin. Ní féidir le teanga nó cultúr maireachtaint gan iad. Tá ról ag Cumann Lúthchleas Gael, ag Comhaltas CeoltóiríÉireann ag Conradh na Gaeilge agus ag gach ceann des na heagrais eile má oibrímid ar slite nua, slite níos éifeachtaí agus slite níos nua-aimseartha. Fágfaidh mé sin mar atá sé, mar a deireadh duine éigin ar Radio Éireann na blianta fada ó shin. Beidh mé ar ais arís, más é toil an Tí seo, chun ceisteanna eile mar gheall ar an straitéis seo, nó ar aon ábhar eile, a phlé.

Question put and agreed to.

An Cathaoirleach: When is it proposed to sit again?

Senator Labhrás Ó Murchú: Tomorrow at 10.30 a.m.

Adjournment Matters

————

Drug Treatment Services Senator Jerry Buttimer: I thank the Minister for being present for this Adjournment debate. Yesterday I attended the meeting of the joint policing committee in Cork at which I heard there had been a reduction in the number of people arrested for the possession and use of drugs. That is welcome. A couple of weeks ago the Irish Examiner published a chronological chart demonstrating the use of heroin across the country and it is fair to say we have a difficult task ahead in curbing its spread. As the Minister said on previous occasions, the problem is encountered in all four corners of the country and across all sections of society. It is reaching epidemic proportions, which is worrying. The number of heroin users doubled between 2002 and 2008. It is difficult to comprehend how we took our collective eye off the ball and allowed this to happen. Despite two national drugs strategies and giving more resources to the Garda, there has been a massive jump in the number seeking help for heroin addiction. The Irish Examiner broke down the figures by region. In the mid-west there was a 310% increase; in the east, a 280% increase; in the south east, a 270% increase; in the midlands, a 260% increase, and in the south — my own area — a 240% increase. The number of new treatment cases for opiates has risen from 21 to 71 in the 394 Drug Treatment 2 November 2010. Services intervening period. The Minister’s adviser, Dr. Des Corrigan, has said the figures highlight the need for investment in treatment services. However, I understand we have a difficulty with the budget. In some regions there is a waiting list for treatment and access to methadone prog- rammes. While I understand we must be prudent financially, I am concerned that cutbacks will lead to a lengthening of the waiting lists and a curtailment of services and the activitiesd of local drugs task forces. People are worried. When the Minister was in Cork last Friday, he saw at first hand the importance of empowering local communities. I know his background is in community work. If we cut front-line services, we will accentuate the problem. I am glad we have recognised — belatedly perhaps — that this is not just a problem in Dublin city. I was struck by the remarks, quoted in the article in the Irish Examiner,ofMr. Justice Murphy who said we must apply the rigour of the law. He is right. We must do so. However, we must also prevent the scourge of heroin from spreading through the countryside. If it takes root, it will create difficuties for myriad other services and communities and make further demands on them. I am a former schoolteacher and director of adult education services. I am also involved in the GAA. I am worried that more and more young people are dabbling in drugs and poly-drug use. I spoke to a couple of lads in my constituency in the last couple of weeks. They told me readily where they could get drugs of any description, which is a concern. It is important that the education system is to the forefront in our drugs strategy. I am worried, however, that we have missed an opportunity regarding the addiction services. In that regard, I refer to Arbour House in Cork. Tabor Lodge addiction centre celebrated its anniver- sary this year, but it needs more support. Fellowship House in Cork city is still awaiting grant approval. I am not being political, but we must support the provision of budgetary funding. We spoke earlier about the Minister’s role in the pre-budget talks on funding for the Irish language. Equally, we must protect and assist services and people under pressure. I commend the work of the local drugs task forces, those involved in the HSE and local gardaí and hope we will not allow funding to be cut completely, as this issue is far too important. We must fight heroin abuse. In that regard, I hope the Minister’s reply will be positive.

Minister for Community, Equality and Gaeltacht Affairs (Deputy Pat Carey): I thank the Senator for raising this matter. When I was in Cork last Friday, I availed of the opportunity to talk to the chairman and co-ordinator of the regional drugs task force to be updated on how things were going there. Heroin use remains a major problem. All the indications are that while the use of heroin is relatively stable in the Dublin region, it has become more widely dispersed around the country, particularly in the major cities and towns across Leinster. Responding to this problem is a priority under the national drugs strategy 2009-16. It is difficult to establish an accurate baseline for the prevalence of opiate use. A report from the national advisory committee on drugs — Senator Buttimer referred to Dr. Des Corrigan — in December 2009 indicated that there were 11,807 known opiate users in 2006 but that there was considerable doubt about the number of unknown users, those who had not come into contact with the drug treatment services, hospital services or the Garda. Similar issues have arisen in other jurisdictions. A study is being carried out on behalf of the NACD to assess how best to estimate overall opiate user numbers. I fully acknowledge that collecting data is very difficult. A number of localised pilot schemes have been initiated and I hope they will provide the information clinicians and others need and that we can build on their findings in the next few years. Given there has been some geographical spread of heroin use, an increase in the numbers seeking treatment outside Dublin was anticipated when the strategy for the 395 Drug Treatment 2 November 2010. Services

[Deputy Pat Carey.] period up until 2016 was being put in place. While there is an increase in demand, in many ways this reflects the efforts made to encourage heroin users into treatment. Their entry into treatment at an early stage increases their prospects for positive outcomes. I fully accept the view that the provision of treatment services is vital to address the needs of problem drug users. This is illustrated by the fact we have 9,400 people in methadone treatment, a very significant proportion of the known users. New opiate substitution services have opened this year in Cork, Tralee and Wexford, and these will be followed shortly by facilities in Kilkenny, Waterford, Limerick, Dundalk and . This is being done by the HSE with financial support from my Department. Further opiate substitution services in the midlands are being actively considered. The methadone protocol is under review at present. For the information of the House, I expect to have the experts’ advice shortly on that issue in regard to the recruitment of other doctors, methadone substitutes and so on. There were 464 people on waiting lists for opiate substitution treatment in October. No people under 18 years of age are awaiting treatment. In Dublin, 112 people are waiting for services, some of whom can access services in Dublin on demand, while the waiting time for others can be up to a month, which is in line with the target set under action 32 of the national drugs strategy. Waiting times in other parts of the country will disappear or reduce significantly when the new services come on stream. I acknowledge there are some areas where waiting times are unsatisfactorily long. My office is working with the HSE to ensure those issues are addressed. My Department has also provided funding for the provision of a needle exchange and other services in Drogheda. Services commenced there in October and will cover the north east. Progress has also been made towards providing a comprehensive needle exchange programme throughout the country and on the expanded provision of rehabilitation services, including detoxification facilities in counties Carlow, Kilkenny, Cork and Limerick. The HSE has also allocated additional resources in 2010 to develop front-line addiction services, with a particular focus on those under 18 years of age. This includes additional psy- chology services, counselling, outreach services and family therapy in each regional drugs task force area. Meanwhile, an independent review of the methadone treatment protocol, which has served us well since it was put in place in 1998, is being carried out. On finalisation of the review, I hope to see further improvements in the provision of the services over the coming years, including a greater focus on facilitating exit from methadone treatment towards rehabili- tation, where appropriate, with the consequent freeing up of places for further clients. I have referred to the need for continuing care and inter-agency co-operation. While this is improving, there is a good way to go yet. I hope that, notwithstanding the current financial constraints facing the public service, the target of having 100% of problem drugs users accessing treatment within one month of assess- ment by 2012 will be achievable. With respect to rehabilitation, the national drug rehabilitation implementation committee has developed a framework through which to address the needs of individuals in recovery. The overall objective is to seek to enable service providers to offer a range of integrated options tailored to meet the needs of service users through individual rehabilitation care plans. A series of pilot projects is being developed to assess the proposed integrated care pathway model with a view to informing further the protocols and agreements required to implement the model nationally. The Garda Síochána and Revenue’s Customs and Excise continue to tackle the supply of illegal drugs, including heroin. They are also targeting the gangland activity associated with this 396 Drug Treatment 2 November 2010. Services supply. I stress my determination to continue to tackle the issue of heroin use over the coming years and I am confident that the actions outlined and the broader implementation of the national drugs strategy will continue to facilitate this. I thank all the national, local and regional drugs task forces and all the volunteers who work with them and their co-ordinators for the work they are doing. It is a slow and difficult task but I believe they are making progress. I pay tribute to the journalist from the Irish Examiner who has repeatedly highlighted the issues, always in very well-researched articles.

Senator Jerry Buttimer: I thank the Minister for his reply. I hope there will not be a cut in front-line services dealing with the heroin problem.

Deputy Pat Carey: I hope so too.

Senator James Carroll: I wish to focus specifically on the issue of drugs services in the north east, especially in counties Louth, Meath, Cavan and Monaghan, and how these compare nationally. I say this having met various groups in Drogheda and the north east which have raised serious concerns with me about the treatment for drug addicts and the path for addicts into the future. As I have explained to the Minister previously, I will be a trustee in developing a Liberties-style recycling programme in Drogheda which focuses on providing a service to addicts to help them see the light at the end of the tunnel and rehabilitate themselves. There is confusion in providing community employment schemes dealing with addiction services for recovering addicts, which is a key issue I would like the Minister to address. While FÁSis informing the Department that it is adding addiction scheme places, it is not focusing on com- munity employment schemes for addicts and recovering addicts. We must address the issues. I have met a wide variety of addicts in the course of my work as a Senator in recent months. Some of the people I went to school with spend the time from 9 a.m. until 9 p.m. looking at the four walls. Being a recovering addict can be a very lonely place and this can be a problem in that addicts may slip back into old ways. The investment the State makes in them initially is wasted because we do not have a follow-through path for them. I am also working with the group of Pastor Amos Ngugi who is providing rehabilitation services for the new Irish, specifically for addicts, and I helped to launch his poster campaign two months ago in the Holy Family centre in Ballsgrove, Drogheda. Pastor Amos is focusing on the cohort of new Irish, many of whom still have not sorted out their citizenship. They have the same problems as many addicts in that it is a long day, a long week, a long month to sit about with nothing to do. Invariably, some fall into the trap of addiction, whether that is through alcohol or drugs, including light drugs, which often lead on to harder substances. In his previous reply, the Minister referred to the prevalence of heroin. I am very concerned that in certain parts of the north east, as well as in other parts of the country, the problem of heroin is exploding. People would be gobsmacked if they were aware of the problems in various provincial towns. The Minister should address what we as a Government, country and society are doing to tackle the scourge of alcohol. We all talk the talk and say alcohol is terrible and should not be abused. The reality is different. I am 27 years old and when I left school nine years ago, this was a huge issue. Whether in regard to junior certificate parties or other parties, more young people are getting into serious states of drunkenness, which has many consequential problems. From my work and liaison with the RAPID co-ordinator in Drogheda, I know she sees at first hand the problems where parents have grown up with this as an issue. They might get up at 2 397 Drug Treatment 2 November 2010. Services

[Senator James Carroll.] p.m. and come downstairs to take alcohol or even cannabis with their children. What type of example does this set for our young people? We need a serious debate. Scandinavia has made it incredibly difficult to access high alcohol content drinks. The two vehicles for reducing consumption of alcohol are increased price and limited access, which are the two paths we must pursue. As a Government, we must focus on this area. People feel it is uncool if a person says he or she does not drink, and if the person says he or she is a Pioneer, people think that person has two heads. We must consider getting people on board who can sell our message, whether this involves sports stars from GAA and rugby or famous actors and actresses, and using them as role models for young people to aspire to. Even sports people might believe they can train hard for a few months and then go on a drinking session for a week. We must tackle this problem because it causes so many problems. The reality many people have refused to accept is that alcohol is the first step to many harder drugs, whether cannabis, heroin or speed, which raise a gamut of issues. I would like the Minister to address those points.

Deputy Pat Carey: I thank the Senator for raising the issues that arise in the north east which are of particular concern to me. I was in Drogheda in July and met the same group as the Senator. I was concerned when I heard about the experiences of some of the addicts. I compli- ment the Ana Liffey Drug Project in Dublin which has come to the aid of the strategy and is providing services with the help of the HSE and my Department. We will be building on this work shortly. Solid progress is being made on the implementation of the various actions of the national drugs strategy across its five pillars of supply reduction, prevention, treatment, rehabilitation and research in line with the Government’s commitment to address problem drug use in a comprehensive way. From the establishment of the Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs in 2002 up to 2009, in the region of €197 million was made available for drugs initiatives, in the main through local and regional drugs task forces. I am satisfied that the drugs task forces are continuing to make a positive impact on the drugs problem and a further €36 million has been made available by the Department of Community, Equality and Gaeltacht Affairs this year. In excess of €31 million in current funding has been made available to fund the activities of the task forces, of which €21.045 million has been allocated to the local drugs task forces and €10 million to the regional drugs task forces. This funding will support some 500 initiatives that the task forces have prioritised for investment in their respective areas. In this regard, it should be noted that the steering group for the national drugs strategy recognised the key role that the local and regional drugs task forces have played in addressing the drugs problem in recent years and “believed that the Drugs Task Forces will continue to play a strong role in the coming years”. I am a great believer in the local and regional task forces. I acknowl- edge that both are stretched, geographically and in terms of resources. The allocations for the north eastern regional drugs task force, NERDTF, were €590,000 in 2006 and €1.04 million in 2010. The Senator will note the somewhat reduced allocations in 2009 and 2010 which reflect the pressures on the public finances. I advise him, however, of the sustained incremental funding in previous years which facilitated, inter alia, the rolling out of projects and initiatives in the regional drugs task force areas, the introduction of new initiatives and responses to address cocaine usage, measures to support rehabilitation and the ongoing investment in capital projects. These are recognised by the Government as key initiatives to support communities to address the harm caused by problem drug use and deliver meaningful solutions. Our primary concern has been and continues to be the protection of front-line com- 398 Drug Treatment 2 November 2010. Services munity-based services delivering vital programmes and initiatives in the areas worst affected by problem drug use. I am satisfied that the investment being made, including €1.04 million made available to the NERDTF, will continue to address problem drug use in a meaningful and real way and protect front-line services to the greatest extent possible. In terms of a national comparison between the north-east region and the national position, from a funding perspective, total funding has more than doubled since 2006 across the regional drugs task force areas, notwithstanding the reductions in 2009 and 2010. I understand from the task force that, given the reduced budget for 2010, following similar reductions in 2009, the NERDTF had a renewed focus on ensuring projects delivered consistent and effective services across the four counties of Cavan, Louth, Meath and Monaghan. In some areas, this led to restructuring of services in order that there would be a clear focus on ensuring there were small multidisciplinary teams in place in each HSE local health office area which would be able to respond to the needs of their community and work co-operatively with other key service pro- viders. This transformation could not have been achieved without the support of the voluntary sector addiction service providers which proved their willingness to adapt to the new require- ments. I am additionally informed by the NERDTF that it now has in place key front-line services which are able to ensure people who are experiencing difficulties due to their addic- tions and who are willing to address them can quickly access a range of addiction services in a localised community drug and alcohol team setting. These core front-line services consist of the Meath Community Drug and Alcohol Response Project, the Cavan/Monaghan Drug Awareness Project and the Louth community drug and alcohol team. In addition to the work of the NERDTF which is funded by my Department, HSE addiction services in the north eastern counties are provided through a range of services. These include an addiction service for counties Louth and Meath managed by the Louth local health office under the direction of the drug service facilitator; an addiction resource centre in counties Cavan and Monaghan, managed and delivered through the mental health services; and a metha- done programme in the north east providing services for counties Louth, Meath and Cavan and Monaghan, managed through the Louth local health office. I understand HSE expenditure on the addiction services for counties Louth and Meath was just under €800,000 in 2009 and €500,000 on the addiction resource centre for counties Cavan and Monaghan and that 1,111 clients from the north-east region received treatment for drug and alcohol use. My Department has also provided funding for the provision of needle exchange and other services in Drogheda. The service commenced there in October and will cover the north east. I look forward to continuing co-operation with all drugs task forces, including that in the north east, and greatly appreciate the work being done. Let me address the four issues raised by the Senator. The Liberties-style initiative and the community employment scheme issue are linked. The initiative in the Liberties is long estab- lished and based on rehabilitation, well thought through strategies and the use of community employment schemes. There are 1,000 ring-fenced community employment schemes nationally for drug misusers. I am working with representatives of FÁS on the oversight group on drugs which I chair. We are working on how we can ring-fence community employment scheme places nationally to assist the rehabilitation of drug misusers. I will be happy to discuss how we might go about doing this with the Senator. On the issue of the new Irish, the oversight group has recently produced a report on what we call communities of interest, including the new Irish. Issues have arisen as part of the study that need to be addressed. They will have to be incorporated into the strategy, both at regional and local level. 399 Radiotherapy 2 November 2010. Services

[Deputy Pat Carey.]

The Senator referred to alcohol abuse. When I was in charge of the national strategy some years ago, I started the process of trying to align the national drugs strategy with an alcohol strategy. That process is well advanced. A group co-chaired by the Department of Health and Children and my Department is working to prepare a draft strategy and a number of significant recommendations have been made. The draft report is all but ready. However, some of the recommendations will be challenging. There are already fears among some groups, including sports organisations, that some of the traditional funding streams for sponsorship, etc., might be interfered with. More important, we will be addressing the issue of the accessibility of alcohol and the fact that it is increasingly the gateway drug used by most people. When I visited a treatment centre in Clare recently, I met a woman who told me she had taken her first drink of alcohol at 11 years of age. It was given to her by her mother. As the Senator rightly stated, the mother was smoking cannabis. I am under no illusions about what lies ahead, but I am anxious to have an aligned alcohol and drug misuse strategy in place in the new year. There are a number of locations at which groups have come forward offering to pilot the strategy. If the Senator or anyone else has an area in mind in which a pilot project could be rolled out, I will be more than happy to work with him or her and try to provide resources. In County Donegal there is very good group, the North West Alcohol Forum, which does extremely good work. It is very important that we work with local groups to determine whether we can design local solutions.

Senator James Carroll: I thank the Ana Liffey Drug Project for filling a gap in the Drogheda drugs service. When one looks at the figures, one thinks they are very good, but one should realise much of the funding goes on wages, for example, not on front-line services. Some believe the community employment scheme to rehabilitate drug users is bad, but it is my experience that it often provides the peer support and network required which make a big difference. I look forward to working with the Minister.

Radiotherapy Services Senator Brian Ó Domhnaill: The issue to which I refer relates to the proposed radiotherapy centre at Altnagelvin, County Derry, in which services for the people of the north west will be provided. The proposed project is being undertaken on foot of discussions between the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Harney, and her counterpart in the North, the Minister for Health, Social Services and Public Safety, Mr. Michael McGimpsey, MLA, and following the exertion of pressure by community groups and two cancer support groups in County Donegal to highlight the need for such a centre in the north west. The background to the project has been highlighted in detail in the past. Patients in the north west who are suffering from cancer and require radiotherapy or chemotherapy are obliged to travel to University College Hospital in Galway and to Dublin in order to avail of the relevant services. It is unacceptable that sick people from north-west Donegal, particularly Inishowen, are obliged to make round trips of at least 400 miles in order to receive treatment in Dublin. A service level agreement was established as part of the national cancer care programme, NCCP, which led to patients from County Donegal being able to avail of services at Belfast City Hospital. However, this has proved to be neither workable nor realistic, particularly in the light of the difficulties in travelling to and from Belfast and a host of other factors. I am delighted that a further service level agreement has been reached by the Ministers, North and 400 Radiotherapy 2 November 2010. Services

South, and that it is proposed to develop a new centre at Altnagelvin which will service the north west. Representatives of the cancer support group Co-operation for Cancer Care NorthWest met the Minister for Health and Children last week. In the light of the fiscal and budgetary circum- stances in the Republic and the North, I am interested in discovering whether plans to build the new centre by 2015 remain on course. According to the business case made for the centre, provision has been made for one third — 400 — of its patients to come from County Donegal. Will the Minister indicate whether we remain on target to meet the 2015 timeframe, what the next step in the process will be, what the current position on the North-South co-operation aspect is and whether tenders for the project will be sought in the near future?

Deputy Pat Carey: I am taking this matter on behalf of the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Harney. I welcome the opportunity to set out the current position on the proposed radiotherapy centre at Altnagelvin and radiotherapy services nationally. On average, approximately 23,000 new cases of invasive cancer, including non-melanoma skin cancer, are diagnosed each year. Current trends indicate that the number of cancers diagnosed annually is likely to double in the next 20 years. It is against this background that the HSE’s national cancer control prog- ramme, NCCP, is being implemented. The goals of the programme are better cancer preven- tion, detection and survival rates through a national service based on evidence and best prac- tice. Part of the programme is implementation of the national plan for radiation oncology, NPRO, originally agreed by the Government in July 2005. The NPRO will provide the national infrastructure for radiation oncology for the next 25 years approximately. Phase 1 involves the construction of new facilities at Beaumont and St James’s Hospitals, with four linear accelerators in each. The new centres will be completed by the end of the year, at which time some staff and resources from St. Luke’s Hospital will transfer to them. The two new facilities and St. Luke’s Hospital will then form the St. Luke’s radiation oncology network for Dublin mid-Leinster and Dublin north east. It will provide adequate capacity to deal with patient needs until at least 2015. Phase 2 of the NPRO will provide additional radiation oncology capacity at St. James’s and Beaumont Hospitals, Cork University Hospital and Galway University Hospital, with satellite centres at Limerick Regional and Waterford Regional Hospitals. It is recognised, however, that for patients in the north west there are particular geographic concerns which must be addressed. For this reason, the Government also decided in July 2005 that the best way to improve geo- graphical access to radiation oncology services for patients in the north west was through North- South co-operation. It was decided, therefore, to facilitate access to Belfast City Hospital for patients in need of radiation oncology treatment. A service level agreement has been in place with Belfast City Hospital for the provision of radiation oncology services for patients from County Donegal since 2006. The Government also decided that it would progress the consideration of a joint venture between North and South for the provision of services from a satellite centre in the north west that would be linked with Belfast City Hospital. In 2008 Northern Ireland’s Minister for Health, Social Services and Public Safety, Mr. Michael McGimpsey, MLA, announced that a new satel- lite radiotherapy centre linked with Belfast City Hospital would be established at Altnagelvin Hospital in Derry as part of Northern Ireland’s plans for the provision of radiotherapy services beyond 2015. At the time the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Harney, agreed to fully explore the opportunity presented for further collaboration in the delivery of these 401 The 2 November 2010. Adjournment

[Deputy Pat Carey.] services. The business case for the development at Altnagelvin has been finalised and is awaiting approval by Minister McGimpsey. The Minister for Health and Children has commit- ted to providing a capital contribution for the project in recognition of the fact that approxi- mately one third of the patients who will attend the Altnagelvin centre will be from County Donegal and surrounding areas. In addition, the NCCP will contribute on an agreed basis to the operating costs in respect of patients from the Republic of Ireland who attend the service. The Department of Health and Children and the NCCP have nominated representatives to the various sub-groups overseeing the development of the project. The NCCP advises that the discussion of patient pathways will include an input from clinicians at Letterkenny General Hospital and St. Luke’s Hospital currently involved in the delivery of radiotherapy services to patients in Letterkenny. The Minister for Health and Children is committed to the development of the radiotherapy centre at Altnagelvin and radiotherapy services nationally. Approximately half of cancer patients will require radiotherapy at some point in their illness and the aim is to ensure the best outcome for these patients, regardless of location.

The Seanad adjourned at 6.40 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 3 November 2010.

402