HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 May 1995 3391 OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS Wednesday, 3 May 1995 The Council met at half-past Two o'clock PRESENT THE PRESIDENT THE HONOURABLE SIR JOHN SWAINE, C.B.E., LL.D., Q.C., J.P. THE CHIEF SECRETARY THE HONOURABLE MRS ANSON CHAN, C.B.E., J.P. THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY THE HONOURABLE SIR NATHANIEL WILLIAM HAMISH MACLEOD, K.B.E., J.P. THE ATTORNEY GENERAL THE HONOURABLE JEREMY FELL MATHEWS, C.M.G., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ALLEN LEE PENG-FEI, C.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS SELINA CHOW LIANG SHUK-YEE, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE HUI YIN-FAT, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MARTIN LEE CHU-MING, Q.C., J.P. THE HONOURABLE NGAI SHIU-KIT, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE PANG CHUN-HOI, M.B.E. THE HONOURABLE SZETO WAH THE HONOURABLE TAM YIU-CHUNG THE HONOURABLE ANDREW WONG WANG-FAT, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LAU WONG-FAT, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE EDWARD HO SING-TIN, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE RONALD JOSEPH ARCULLI, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MARTIN GILBERT BARROW, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS PEGGY LAM, O.B.E., J.P. 3392 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 May 1995 THE HONOURABLE MRS MIRIAM LAU KIN-YEE, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LAU WAH-SUM, O.B.E., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE LEONG CHE-HUNG, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE JAMES DAVID McGREGOR, O.B.E., I.S.O., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS ELSIE TU, C.B.E. THE HONOURABLE PETER WONG HONG-YUEN, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ALBERT CHAN WAI-YIP THE HONOURABLE VINCENT CHENG HOI-CHUEN, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MOSES CHENG MO-CHI THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG MAN-KWONG THE HONOURABLE CHIM PUI-CHUNG REV THE HONOURABLE FUNG CHI-WOOD THE HONOURABLE FREDERICK FUNG KIN-KEE THE HONOURABLE TIMOTHY HA WING-HO, M.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL HO MUN-KA DR THE HONOURABLE HUANG CHEN-YA THE HONOURABLE SIMON IP SIK-ON, O.B.E., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE LAM KUI-CHUN DR THE HONOURABLE CONRAD LAM KUI-SHING, J.P. THE HONOURABLE EMILY LAU WAI-HING THE HONOURABLE LEE WING-TAT THE HONOURABLE ERIC LI KA-CHEUNG, J.P. THE HONOURABLE FRED LI WAH-MING THE HONOURABLE MAN SAI-CHEONG THE HONOURABLE STEVEN POON KWOK-LIM THE HONOURABLE HENRY TANG YING-YEN, J.P. HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 May 1995 3393 THE HONOURABLE TIK CHI-YUEN THE HONOURABLE JAMES TO KUN-SUN DR THE HONOURABLE SAMUEL WONG PING-WAI, M.B.E., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE PHILIP WONG YU-HONG DR THE HONOURABLE YEUNG SUM THE HONOURABLE ZACHARY WONG WAI-YIN DR THE HONOURABLE TANG SIU-TONG, J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHRISTINE LOH KUNG-WAI THE HONOURABLE ANNA WU HUNG-YUK THE HONOURABLE JAMES TIEN PEI-CHUN, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ALFRED TSO SHIU-WAI THE HONOURABLE LEE CHEUK-YAN ABSENT DR THE HONOURABLE DAVID LI KWOK-PO, O.B.E., LL.D., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MARVIN CHEUNG KIN-TUNG, O.B.E., J.P. THE HONOURABLE HOWARD YOUNG, J.P. THE HONOURABLE ROGER LUK KOON-HOO IN ATTENDANCE MR MICHAEL LEUNG MAN-KIN, C.B.E., J.P. SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION AND MANPOWER MR MICHAEL SUEN MING-YEUNG, C.B.E., J.P. SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS MR JAMES SO YIU-CHO, O.B.E., J.P. SECRETARY FOR RECREATION AND CULTURE THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL SZE CHO-CHEUNG, I.S.O., J.P. SECRETARY FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE 3394 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 May 1995 MRS KATHERINE FOK LO SHIU-CHING, O.B.E., J.P. SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND WELFARE MR PETER LAI HING-LING, J.P. SECRETARY FOR SECURITY MR KWONG KI-CHI, J.P. SECRETARY FOR THE TREASURY MRS REGINA IP LAU SUK-YEE, J.P. SECRETARY FOR TRADE AND INDUSTRY THE CLERK TO THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL MR RICKY FUNG CHOI-CHEUNG THE DEPUTY SECRETARY GENERAL MR LAW KAM-SANG HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 May 1995 3395 PAPERS The following papers were laid on the table pursuant to Standing Order 14(2): Subject Subsidiary Legislation L.N. No. Post Office (Amendment) Regulation 1995.................................................. 151/95 Census and Statistics (Annual Survey of External Investments in Non-Manufacturing Undertakings) (Amendment) Order 1995 ..................................................................... 155/95 Rules of the Supreme Court (Amendment) (No. 2) Rules 1995 ............................................................................................ 156/95 Organized and Serious Crimes Ordinance (82 of 1994) (Commencement) Notice 1995......................................... 157/95 Sessional Papers 1994-95 No. 81 - Traffic Accident Victims Assistance Fund Annual Report by the Director of Social Welfare Incorporated for the year from 1 April 1993 to 31 March 1994 No. 82 - Regional Council Revised list of works annexed to the Regional Council's Revised Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure for 1994- 95 ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS Qualifications for Civil Service Employment 1. MR SIMON IP asked: In view of the Government's recent announcement that recognition of academic and professional qualifications for civil service employment will be broadened, will the Government inform this Council whether it has any plans to recognize only those academic and professional qualifications, when employing professional officers for professional posts, which are recognized by their relevant professional bodies in the territory for private practice? 3396 HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 May 1995 SECRETARY FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE: Mr President, let me make it clear at the outset that the announcement referred to in this question was about appointment criteria for posts requiring a general degree. The announcement did not relate to criteria for appointment to posts in the professional grades in the Civil Service. It is not our intention to change arrangements in respect of professional qualifications which are matters for the relevant professional bodies; arrangement which are well-established and preserved in Article 142 of the Basic Law. As for general degrees, we have removed previous reference in our recruitment advertisements to British degrees. The guiding elements of our assessment of non-Hong Kong qualifications are as follows: (a) we must be absolutely satisfied that the qualification in question is at least as good as the comparable Hong Kong qualification for the purpose of recruitment to the Civil Service; (b) we examine each qualification on a case-by-case basis. We may accept some qualifications but not others from a university. And we may accept a certain qualification only if received after a certain date in a case where the standard of a course has been raised above our threshold between one academic year and the next; (c) no preference is given to qualifications from a particular country or group of countries. We use the same test for all qualifications. However, we have had difficulties in the past assessing qualifications from some countries. And it was for this reason that we recently enlisted the help of the Hong Kong Council for Academic Accreditation. Since its founding in 1990, the Council has built up an extensive network of international contacts with accreditation bodies and academic institutions. With the Council's help, we are strengthening our system and believe we will shortly have the information necessary to recognize at least some degrees from non-English speaking countries that we have not felt able to recognize in the past. I expect this to include some qualifications obtained in China. (d) Accepting such qualifications will allow those who have obtained them to participate in the civil service recruitment process, provided of course that they are Hong Kong residents. They will need to pass other tests, including basic physical fitness and language proficiency in Chinese and English, as well as a rigorous assessment of suitability and potential in competition with other applicants. The steps we are taking to strengthen our assessment of non-Hong Kong degrees are a response to the still small but growing number of Hong Kong youngsters going abroad to study, not just to traditional destinations in the Commonwealth and North America, but to universities in this region. HONG KONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL — 3 May 1995 3397 MR SIMON IP: Mr President, I think the Secretary and I are talking at slightly crossed purposes. Although my question is prefaced by a reference to the Government's recent announcement, it is clear that my question was directed really at professional grades and professional qualifications for professional posts. So the question really is whether the Government has any plans to recognize only those academic and professional qualifications, when employing professional officers for professional posts, which are recognized by their relevant professional bodies in the territory for private practice? The reason I ask this question is that I understand that in relation to recruitment in the public sector for professional posts the Government recognizes professional qualifications, some of which are not recognized by the professional bodies in Hong Kong for the purpose of private practice. That is the thrust of my question. SECRETARY FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE: Mr President, the practice that we have in place for recruiting professional officers to professional ranks and grades in the Civil Service will not be affected in any way by our announcement of assessing non-Hong Kong, non-British, non-Commonwealth degrees which may be recognized for the purpose of appointment to grades requiring a general degree. PRESIDENT: Mr IP, not answered? MR SIMON IP: I think we are still slightly talking at crossed purposes, Mr President, because I am asking whether the Government has any plans to change the professional qualifications for the purpose of appointing officers to professional grades in relation to qualifications which only the professional bodies in Hong Kong would recognize for private practice? As I understand it, there are qualifications which the Government accepts for professional appointments.