PUBLIC SESSION MINUTES OF ORAL EVIDENCE taken before HIGH SPEED RAIL COMMITTEE on the HIGH SPEED RAIL (LONDON – WEST MIDLANDS) BILL Tuesday 23 June 2015 (Morning) In Committee Room 5 PRESENT: Mr Robert Syms (Chair) Mr Henry Bellingham Sir Peter Bottomley Ian Mearns _____________ IN ATTENDANCE: Mr James Strachan, QC, Counsel, Department for Transport Mr Brian Adams, Stop HS2 Witnesses: Mr Geoffrey Powell Ms Jill Watson Mr John Coombe Mr Raymond Snoddy Mr Jamie Langton Mr Martin Hillis Mr John Donovan _____________ IN PUBLIC SESSION INDEX Subject Page Caroline and Richard Spooner and others Submission by Mr Brian Adams 3 Response by Ms Strachan 7 Geoffrey Powell Submission by Mr Powell 13 Response by Mr Strachan 18 Jill Watson and others Submission by Ms Watson 22 Response by Mr Strachan 26 John Coombe Submission by Mr Coombe 31 Response by Mr Strachan 39 Raymond Snoddy and others Submission by Mr Snoddy 42 Submission by Mr Langton 42 Submission by Mr Hillis 45 Response by Mr Strachan 48 John Donovan and others Submission by Mr Donovan 52 2 (At 09.31) 1. CHAIR: Order, order. Good morning to the HS2 Select Committee in the second of five consecutive days of business. We’re a little bit like the Windmill; we never close, for those who remember the Windmill. We start off with today with petitions 721 and 725. We have Brian Adams, if you’ll please kick off. Caroline and Richard Spooner and others 2. MR ADAMS: Thank you. Could I have A1121(1), please? I apologise; it’s me again. The two groups of petitioners that I’m presenting on behalf of – and unfortunately, I’ll explain the lead petitioners couldn’t come today, so they’ve asked me to stand in instead for them. 3. I hope, last Thursday when we were presenting, that I left with you an impression of the large numbers of people who are going to be affected by both the construction and operation of HS2 in the Ickenham area. We are 11,500 residents and we also, as an area, are used by many other thousands of people on a daily basis. When we were faced with the petitioning process in May last year, we decided as a community, rather than flood you with thousands of petitions, because everybody in Ickenham is affected, we will establish groups with lead petitioners. They are their neighbours then would construct a petition, so we ended up with 28 petitions. What we hope to do today is step you through different parts of Ickenham, so you can see what’s the impact for groups, for individuals, for associations. 4. I’m going to start with one specific area of Ickenham, so number 3, please. The petitioning group that I am representing this morning are in the area of Ickenham High Road. My basic chart of Ickenham and all the various roads through it doesn’t really represent very well what that area is, if you go to number 2, please. 5. Mr Noad, he lives in Parkfield Road and there’s an arrow pointing to that. It’s one of the roads that feeds into Ickenham High Road. The characteristics of that area are all of the roads there, both sides of Ickenham High Road, are effectively cul-de-sacs. The only access to the outside world that they have is via Ickenham High Road. Mr Noad has lived there for 55 years; he has actually made a very significant contribution to the area. He is on the Ickenham Festival Committee. He is Chairman of the local Neighbourhood Watch. He is very heavily involved in the church activities. He got 3 married in St Giles Church 55 years ago, so we owe, all of us in Ickenham, a great deal to Alan. Unfortunately, he is quite seriously ill and, therefore, he’s not with us today. 6. I think, if we look at Ickenham High Road, I tried to demonstrate our concerns last Thursday that, if HS2’s plans actually happen and we try to put 1,000 lorries through Swakeleys Road every day, the knock-on effect across all the roads in Ickenham is going to be very significant. At this moment in time, we still get heavy congestion on the other roads in Ickenham, particularly Long Lane, where people are travelling from the north to the south. We can see that Ickenham High Road specifically will be very badly affected. Number 4, please. 7. In addition to today’s very heavy congestion, particularly in the evening where the traffic is moving from the south to the north, we have these new developments on Ickenham High Road, with McCarthy & Stone and Taylor Wimpey. We have Tesco to the south and we have the expansion. We have pedestrian crossings; we have pedestrian-controlled traffic lights and we have also automated traffic light systems, all of which lead to further congestion. 8. The issue for the people who live in this area – number 5, please – is the impact upon their daily lives of trying to leave where they live and use Ickenham High Road. We’re talking about a substantial number of houses here. In Parkfield Road we have 70 households; in Oak Avenue, 63; and then the other side of Ickenham High Road, Brackenbury Village, with 500 houses; and Ickenham Park, 480. Today their life is quite difficult to use that Ickenham High Road, because of current congestion, but if it’s actually heavily impacted by HS2 plans, it’s difficult to see how they can possibly run their normal daily lives. 9. The other thing is to build on what Mr Taylor said on West Ruislip. Should it be necessary to work on the utilities at West Ruislip bridge – the gas, the water, etc. – because of the emergence of the tunnel there, he explained we had a gas emergency earlier this year, which took three days and the whole area just freeze. I can confirm that because, in fact, it was right in front of where my mother lives at West Ruislip. For those three days, I was unable to get to her; she was unable to go out and do the shopping. 10. If you start to expand that to possibly months, it’s very difficult to see how our 4 society in that area can survive. How will deliveries happen to shops? How will buses run? How will people get to their destinations? 11. Also, there was the concern very much – in fact, Mr Taylor said that, through personal observation, there were very few HGV movements currently on that road. That’s perfectly true, because there’s no reason for HGVs, at this moment in time, to go down that road. All the HGV traffic is in Harvil Road and in Breakspear Road South. Any HGV driver going down Ickenham High Road knows that it’s going to be a very difficult route for them, because of the traffic lights, crossings and that major pinch point beyond West Ruislip, which is called the White Bear Roundabout, and into Ruislip High Street. Apart from supermarket and pub delivery vehicles, it’s hard to see what HGV traffic there would be. 12. Bringing HGVs into this part of Ickenham is very concerning. It’s a cycle track. If they were to be parked on West Ruislip bridge, we’d have major concerns about what cyclists would do to get round that. The headlines on the Evening Standard last night, another woman cyclist killed by a lorry, just raise further anxieties in terms of bringing HGV traffic down here. 13. That is the essence of Mr Noad and his neighbours’ concerns about HS2’s plans. If I move on to Mrs Spooner, I can talk personally about that, because it happens to be my daughter. She lives behind the Ickenham pond area, actually at the junction between Ickenham High Road and Swakeleys Road, by the Coach and Horses pub. I showed you last Thursday just a few photographs of the accidents that have occurred at that junction. Well, she’s been taking those photographs, because she lives on the spot. 14. CHAIR: You said your daughter was caught in an accident. 15. MR ADAMS: She was involved in actually an accident moving up Swakeleys Road into where I live, in Breakspear Road South. 16. If you look at my daughter and her family she has three children. She’s very typical of an Ickenham family. Her husband goes off to work using the commuting facilities into central London, at half past six/seven o’clock every morning. She fights to get the three children ready. She takes the middle one to Breakspear School; the elder one, the teenager, he walks off to Swakeleys or cycles. We obviously have concerns 5 about his safety on his bike and round that area. The younger one, the new baby, she has to take to a babyminder. She works in Stockley Park. At this moment in time, that four-mile journey is taking 40-45 minutes. If the HS2 plans come to fruition and we have this potential 1,000 lorries, Long Lane will also become highly, highly congested, because people we try it as an alternative. 17. She is very concerned about her future. She’s very fortunate; her employer is very flexible. There is some opportunity to work at home, some opportunity for flexible hours but, at the end of the day, if she can’t get to work it’s very difficult to see how she can continue her career.