Vol. 746 Tuesday No. 19 18 June 2013 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD) HOUSE OF LORDS OFFICIAL REPORT ORDER OF BUSINESS Questions Badgers...........................................................................................................................131 Gaza ...............................................................................................................................133 Education: Sex and Relationship Education...............................................................135 Kenya: Kenyan Emergency...........................................................................................138 Child Support and Claims and Payments (Miscellaneous Amendments and Change to the Minimum Amount of Liability) Regulations 2013 Motion to Approve ........................................................................................................140 Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Act 2012 (Referral Fees) Regulations 2013 Motion to Approve ........................................................................................................140 Offender Rehabilitation Bill [HL] Order of Consideration Motion ....................................................................................140 Procedure of the House Motion to Agree............................................................................................................141 Energy Bill Second Reading..............................................................................................................141 Grand Committee Intellectual Property Bill [HL] Committee (3rd Day)..............................................................................................GC 41 Written Statements........................................................................................................WS 7 Written Answers ...........................................................................................................WA 29 £4·00 Lords wishing to be supplied with these Daily Reports should give notice to this effect to the Printed Paper Office. The bound volumes also will be sent to those Peers who similarly notify their wish to receive them. No proofs of Daily Reports are provided. Corrections for the bound volume which Lords wish to suggest to the report of their speeches should be clearly indicated in a copy of the Daily Report, which, with the column numbers concerned shown on the front cover, should be sent to the Editor of Debates, House of Lords, within 14 days of the date of the Daily Report. This issue of the Official Report is also available on the Internet at www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201314/ldhansrd/index/130618.html PRICES AND SUBSCRIPTION RATES DAILY PARTS Single copies: Commons, £5; Lords £4 Annual subscriptions: Commons, £865; Lords £600 LORDS VOLUME INDEX obtainable on standing order only. Details available on request. BOUND VOLUMES OF DEBATES are issued periodically during the session. Single copies: Commons, £105; Lords, £60 (£100 for a two-volume edition). Standing orders will be accepted. THE INDEX to each Bound Volume of House of Commons Debates is published separately at £9·00 and can be supplied to standing order. All prices are inclusive of postage. © Parliamentary Copyright House of Lords 2013, this publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 131 Badgers[18 JUNE 2013] Badgers 132 panel that contributed the assessment—shows that House of Lords culling badgers has a modest effect in reducing the incidence of TB in cattle; it is estimated to be 16%. Tuesday, 18 June 2013. Does the Minister agree that rolling out culling as a national policy to control TB in cattle is not really 2.30 pm credible? Furthermore, will she tell us what assessment Defra has made of the reasons why 40% of farms in Prayers—read by the Lord Bishop of Liverpool. the highest-risk areas of the country do not get TB in their cattle? Badgers Question Baroness Northover: The noble Lord has, of course, huge expertise, having been such a power behind the earlier, randomised controlled trials into this, which 2.37 pm established the 16% figure that he has just talked Asked by Lord Hoyle about. That is why, faced with this enormous challenge, we are taking a range of measures, including more To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they cattle testing, greater biosecurity and investing in research still plan to carry out their proposed cull of badgers. in vaccines. I noted his point about the herds that do not seem to be suffering from TB yet are in TB Baroness Northover: My Lords, we are using badger hotspots. I point him to the £250 million fund for new culling as part of a package of measures to tackle vaccination projects. It is undersubscribed. I suggest bovine TB. Two pilots will be undertaken this summer that he directs his research students to it, and I look to assess the methodology for delivering an effective forward to the enlightenment that he and his students cull. This year there will be intensive monitoring of bring on bovine TB, in the UK and around the world. the effectiveness and humaneness of controlled shooting. A panel of independent experts will review the resulting Baroness Parminter: Will the data from these trials, report once the pilots have concluded. Only then will alongside the criteria against which free shooting will Ministers decide whether the policy should be rolled be judged humane or not, be published at the same out more widely. time that the Secretary of State announces whether badger culling will be allowed in future? Lord Hoyle: I thank the Minister for that reply, but will she go a little further and say more about the Baroness Northover: The Government expect to be criteria which the Government are using? Why does able to announce a decision on the reports in the early she believe that it is effective, humane and safe, and part of next year, when the information is in. I can when exactly will the culls take place? assure my noble friend that the outcome of the monitoring of the pilot culls will be published. In the mean time, Baroness Northover: The noble Lord will know of course, other measures to seek to control bovine TB the scale of the problem that we seek to tackle and the will also be taken. difficulty of using the various measures that we have. That is why we are using a range of measures. The Lord Taylor of Blackburn: My Lords, when the open season dates take account of the breeding season, animals are killed, will there will be post mortems on so the assessment could happen any time from the their carcasses to see whether they are carrying TB or beginning of this month on. Operators will be required not? to follow best practice guidelines, and it will be very carefully monitored. A number of organisations are Baroness Northover: There will be post mortems on involved in this. the carcasses. Lord Elton: Will my noble friend remind us how Lord Soulsby of Swaffham Prior: My Lords, following many cattle have had to be slaughtered because of what is now known as the Krebs trial, it is quite clear bovine tuberculosis in recent years? Is the number that alternate approaches are now necessary. What are growing and what has been the cost of compensation? some of these alternate approaches to controlling tuberculosis in wildlife and domestic livestock? This Baroness Northover: My noble friend is absolutely country is well known for its ability to sedate wildlife, right to highlight this. Last year 28,000 cattle had to take samples and all the rest of it. An approach based be put down. Through this cull, we are looking at on the sedation of badgers, for example, would be a reducing the number of badgers by 5,000, so noble good way in which to approach this issue. One could Lords can see the scale of this. The cost to the taxpayer take samples, vaccinate and all the rest of it. Has the over the last decade was £500 million for the cattle Minister considered any of the approaches that I have destroyed, and that could reach £1 billion in the next mentioned? decade. Baroness Northover: I can assure the noble Lord Lord Krebs: My Lords, as the Minister will be that the Government have considered all approaches, aware, the scientific assessment published on Defra’s welcome all suggestions and welcome research. Cattle website—I declare an interest as I was part of the measures are the foundation of our control programme, 133 Badgers[LORDS] Gaza 134 [BARONESS NORTHOVER] that last year alone 43 children were killed, 18 of them and ultimately we wish to be able to use vaccination under nine years old? Is she also aware that over 10% for cattle and badgers. As I mentioned, there is much of under-five year-olds in Gaza suffer from malnutrition investment into research. The problems lie in the challenges and stunting, and that a child in occupied Palestine as with the vaccinations; the research that is being conducted a whole is five times more likely to die before the age of at the moment has not produced a vaccine that can five than an Israeli child? I am anxious to know from be used in the immediate term, either for cattle or for the Minister whether the plight of these children and badgers. the illegal occupation of Palestine are now to be forgotten as the West concentrates on the tragedy Lord Knight of Weymouth: My Lords, it is vital that unfolding in Syria. we find a workable solution to the spread of TB from badgers to cattle. The science strongly suggests that a Baroness Warsi: The simple