H IG H LIG H TS IN THIS ISSUE: Woody Herman interview (Part Two) Presorted Standard U.S. Postage PAID Atlanta, GA Permit No. 3259 BIG BAND JIMP NEWSLETTER VO LU M E 111 BIG BAND JUMP NEWSLETTER JULY-AUGUST, 2007 INTERVIEW - WOODY HERMAN (P art Tw o) We continue the Woody Herman interview as con­ ducted over a number of years by Fred Hall, whose depth of experience in radio and music yielded a practiced look into Woody’s background. In the last issue Woody Herman talked about bassist Chubby Jackson at first rejecting the idea of Dave Tough joining the band, but enthusiastically endorsing him after hearing his work for a few days. The question came up about the commercial radio exposure of the First Herd on network radio at a time when that was a valuable part of a band’s popularization B B J: You were lucky, or maybe it was shrewd mana- gerial handling, to get some commercial radio shows, such as the “Wildroot” program. WH: Well, this had to do with the agency as the people involved directly with the company were fans of the band, and that helped us a great deal. That made life a lot easier because the network couldn ’ t stand us, and the advertising agency wasn’t too happy with us. But the sponsor loved us, and his product WH: Some of them were off the top, you know. became number one while we were on the air for him. There was never any budget for writers so So he wasn’t too impressed with ratings and so on. consequently somebody who j ust happened to be stand­ ing around did the writing, and later it got worse when BBJ: You named a tune after the sponsor’s product. we got into the Wildroot thing because they would hire Who was on the program? people who wrote pretty well for Downbeat Magazine, but they certainly weren’t ready for radio, and we WH: Allan Jones, and at the time everyone felt it was waded through a lot of that. Finally we’d just throw the kind of a mismating of people, but we had lots stuff in the air and ad-lib as best we could. of fun on the show and I think Red Barber, the announcer, who dealt in sports mostly, added a BBJ: The First Herd got going in that ’42 to ’44 time certain luster to the show and we managed to skim when the Musician’s Union stopped all re­ by pretty well. cording. You switched to the Columbia label during that time. BBJ: Was all the dialogue on that show written or was some of it ad-libbed? WH: Yeah, we started recording again in late ’44 in a church on 30th street, an old cathedral, and it VOLUME 111 BIG BAND JUMP NEWSLETTER JULY-AUGUST, 200T was the best natural recording sound I ever heard. That BBJ: You had great singers in the band. Was Mary was the reason I went with Columbia. Ann McCall with you twice? BBJ: Did all hell break loose when those records WH: Yes, first in “The Band That Played The Blues” began to appear? and later in the First Herd and even in the Second Herd. Three times, I guess you would say. WH: Yeah, some of it was very resentful and some of it was great. We were latching on to a lot of BBJ: She came back for your 40lh Anniversary new listeners that just discovered us then, but the older Concert. Tell us about that. listeners were sometimes turned off by it because they thought we were becoming too rambunctious, I guess. WH: Well, I think that’s one of the high points of my entire musical life, and the fact that for the first BBJ: How long did the First Herd go on? time, I think ever, we had a lovely reception after the concert. RCA Victor and Columbia Records combined WH: The First Herd lasted until the end of ’46 and forces and threw a party for the guests and our band, and then we broke up the band and I came home. everyone who’d ever been through it, and it was We had just moved into this place (in Los Angeles) in probably the most lovely, wild reception I’ve ever the summer before and I hadn’t spent any time here and been involved in. To have the two major labels my daughter was beginning to grow a little, and it combine their resources for this party was, I thought, seemed necessary to be home. I lasted for about seven sensational. months (during which time he was a disk jockey in L.A.) and then I put together another band which BBJ: You got a lot of veterans to come back and play became the bebop band later. with the current young members. BBJ: That was a strange period. Even Benny WH: They were utterly amazed at what the young Goodman tried bebop for a while, not very kids can do today. For instance, I had my band successfully. of 15 players. Nine were graduates of the Eastman School in Rochester, New York. Of the nine graduates, WH: Everybody did, but as Dizzy said there was five have their masters, so they’re very well prepared to only one band that played bebop that made play anything I want to play. any sense, and that was our band. So I guess we could be commended for that if nothing else. But I think we BBJ: We skipped over the small groups. came up with a couple of sounds that helped and still remain. The first one was FOUR BROTHERS which WH: Yeah, we had the Woodchoppers which was a was a new combination of saxophones put together, seven piece group, and the Chips, which was three tenors and a baritone, and we had some very clarinet and rhythm section. And then years later I did talented, bright young people. that again. Then there were other groups, a group I took to Las V egas for a number of months, ‘ cause very often Stan Getz was then 19 or 20, and Zoot Sims was maybe I worked as a small group to refinance the band. That 21, and Serge Chaloff was a very young man from was the reasoning. Boston, a baritone player. And the other tenor player was a youngster who went back to his first love, which BBJ: We haven’t mentioned Frances Wayne, an was playing the alto, Herbie Steward. When he left a excellent singer. lot of other guys came through, including J immy Giufff e, who wrote the tune. And then the next important thing, WH: No. She was a very excellent singer and a I think, is when we moved over to Capitol and Ralph lovely lady, and Mrs. Neal Hefti eventually. Bums wrote EARLY AUTUMN. That was the begin­ My favorite record by her would have to be HAPPI­ ning of a new era of certain sound. NESS IS A THING CALLED JOE. 2 VOLUME 111 BIG BAND JUMP NEWSLETTER JULY-AUGUST, 2007 This excerpt of the Fred Hall Woody Herman interview came from Fred H all’s wonderful book, “Dialogues In Swing” available at www.swing- tiling.co?n. Again, our thanks to Tim Hall for his permission to use this valuable material. LETTERS TO THE EDITOR Letters to BIG BAND JUMP or the BBJ NEWS­ LETTER may be sent to the address below, or e-mailed to: [email protected]. When you Wayne & Hefti e-mail, please give your name and address. All letters are answered, but the volume of mail BB J: How about your singing? sometimes delays a timely response. WH: Well, I’ve never really been a fan ofmy singing BBJ NEWSLETTER at all. I do it if I feel I can read a lyric and get Box 52252 something from it, or enhance what we’re doing musi­ Atlanta, GA 30355 cally, but it’s not because I think I can sing at all. The published letters have been edited for space BBJ: Records you have a special fondness for over considerations, but the meaning has been preserved. the years? Kathleen Brandt I was stunned at the letter in Sacramento, CA the May-June issue asserting WH: Well, I think the things I admire and feel proud that Dick Haymes “sounds the I was a part of were mostly concerned with same on every selection with practically no tonal varia­ Ralph Bums and some of the guys who went through tion, no emphasis.. .he’s as bland as margarine spread my bands. For instance, when I think of Bill Harris, I with a very broad knife.” What?! Dick Haymes was the think of BIJOU which was written by Ralph Bums. quintessential big band singer, second only to the When I think of Flip Phillips or any of the players that incomparable Frank Sinatra in crooning love ballads. went through that era of my bands I have to think of Haymes’ exquisitely smooth voice was like Dom Ralph Bums because I think they’re best performances Perignon poured over virgin silk. Bland as margarine came through the efforts of Ralph. I think that Stan indeed! Getz would never have reached the heights he has if he had not played EARLY AUTUMN and been given that Toby Hardwick, Jr. I am flabbergasted at the vi- opportunity by Ralph. So I have a great deal of San Francisco, CA cious anti-Dick Haymes let­ allegiance and fondness and love for Ralph Bums.