The American Fighter Aces Association Oral Interviews The Museum of Flight Seattle, Washington BCATP (British Commonwealth Air Training Plan) Fighter Pilots Reunion Recording Date: circa 1970 2 Abstract: This recording contains highlights from a reunion held in Winnipeg, Manitoba, circa 1970, for Canadian and British fighter pilots who were involved with the British Commonwealth Air Training Plan during World War II. Speakers share remarks and humorous stories about each other and pay homage to the wartime service of Canadian pilots. Identified speakers include German fighter ace Adolf Galland; British fighter aces James Edgar “Johnnie” Johnson and Douglas Bader; and Air Commodore John Fauquier of the Royal Canadian Air Force. Also included is an excerpt from a BBC radio broadcast of then-Wing Commander Johnnie Johnson giving a briefing on the eve of D-Day. Background: The British Commonwealth Air Training Plan (BCATP), also known as the Empire Air Training Scheme (EATS), was an aircrew training program implemented during World War II by the Royal Air Forces of the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand. A reunion for BCATP-trained Canadian pilots was held in Winnipeg, Manitoba, circa 1970, and the event included a luncheon attended by Canadian and British fighter pilots, as well as at least one German fighter pilot. Several of the speeches made by the guests of honor were recorded. Restrictions: Permission to publish material from the American Fighter Aces Association Oral Interview Collection must be obtained from The Museum of Flight Archives. Transcript: Transcribed by Pioneer Transcription Services 3 Index: Remarks from German fighter ace Adolf Galland .......................................................................... 4 Remarks from British fighter ace James Edgar “Johnnie” Johnson ............................................... 4 Remarks from British fighter ace Douglas Bader ........................................................................... 6 Remarks from Air Commodore John Fauquier .............................................................................. 8 Recording of Johnnie Johnson’s D-Day briefing............................................................................ 8 Further remarks from Johnnie Johnson........................................................................................... 9 Closing remarks ............................................................................................................................ 12 4 A Gathering of Eagles [START OF INTERVIEW] 00:00:05 [Remarks from German fighter ace Adolf Galland] UNIDENTIFIED MAN: On my left here is a very special guest who is honoring us by his presence today, Lieutenant General Adolf Galland. [applause] ADOLF GALLAND: First of all, I must apologize that I am not able to really express my feelings in a foreign language and completely overwhelmed about this donation you gave me as a foreign enemy. So let me tell you, I am overwhelmed and I thank you and the town of Winnipeg from the depths of my heart. [applause] AD: May I continue? Mr. President, Chairman, gentlemen. I feel honored about your kind invitation, and I wanted to thank your wonderful organization for all—what you have done and for your great hospitality. If I remember, 35 years ago, even 40 years ago, we were forced to fight by the politicians and by the politics to fight and to shoot each other. Everybody has done only his duty, his military duty. Now, when we are here presented to such a reunion, we must realize that the progress has taken place. It is impossible that between the countries of the free world another war could occur. This is progress, and we must include those which gave their lives during this war and that—those who died in this war. When I go back after these remarkable days, I will remember this event as the biggest days of my life. And I hope that I can be sure that somebody of you will invite me as a friend, and I will take in my mind that I have many friends in this big continent. Thank you very much. [applause] 00:03:47 [Remarks from British fighter ace James Edgar “Johnnie” Johnson] JOHNNIE JOHNSON: Gentlemen, it’s my pleasure today to introduce Douglas Bader as your speaker of this luncheon. And I really got him in the box because, although I am first here now and he comes second, then I shall have another go tonight, you see. [laughter] So he’s not in a very good tactical position. Douglas Bader really needs no introduction. We’ve all heard of his great exploits. You’ve read of them in Paul Brickhill’s excellent book, Reach for the Sky. Alf Galland and I, perhaps benefitting from my better education, were able to write our own. [laughter/applause] 00:05:00 5 JJ: I want to make one thing absolutely clear today, before Douglas does. [laughter] That is the relationship between Pilot Officer Johnson and his wing leader, Wing Commander Bader. Because at Tangmere in 1941, that’s where we—well, we first knew each other before, in college, in fact. But at Tangmere in 1941, when we were opposing Alf and these chaps at Abbeville, I was a pilot officer with Douglas, serving an apprenticeship. I was treated more or less as a pilot. Well, I was treated as a dog, really. [laughter] Perhaps a nice, friendly dog. But I was permitted, when he left his pipe in the officers’ mess, to drive his car back to [unintelligible 00:05:58] and fetch it. [laughter] And ultimately I became his number two and learnt a tremendous lot from him, because he always had the ability to impart his teachings and tactical knowledge to we pilot officers. And any success that came my way in later years and any knowledge that I was able to impart to the Canadian squadrons and the Canadian wings I had the privilege to command were due to this man on my left. When we were at Tangmere, his wife, Thelma, lived nearby. And her sister, Jill, was the most attractive girl, also lived down at Bognor in the house. And of course, Jill, being young and attractive—she’s now married to a tremendous chap called Larry Lucas—was in some demand from the pilot officers. But Douglas let it be known loud and clear that the first chap to poke, as he put it—[laughter]—would be posted and not promoted. [laughter] 00:07:37 JJ: Now, in 1941, we had on the station a little communications airplane called the Maggie. I’m sure most of you remember the Miles Magister. And one Friday, I went to my CO, Billy Burton. I said, “Could I borrow the Maggie to slip up to Nottingham to see my girlfriend for the weekend?” He said, “Yes. Be back on Monday morning in time for readiness.” Well, one of those things, I forgot to refuel the airplane when I was taking off from Nottingham on the Monday morning. And I’d just got a few miles south of Nottingham when the engine cut dead. In my usual skill, I put it down in a grass field without a scratch. [laughter] Rang up the nearest RAF airfield and they sent the bowser down and I topped up and proceeded to Tangmere. But instead of being at Tangmere for the nine o’clock readiness, it was lunchtime, you see. My CO was rather displeased with Pilot Officer Johnson. And he said, “It’s not the Maggie and that sort of thing. It’s being late for readiness. You’ll be in front of the Wing Commander tomorrow morning.” And I was instructed to produce my log book, and the following morning we marched—we were marched in front of the great man. [laughter/unintelligible 00:09:00] log book, you see. So I had to relate the sorry tale of not refueling the Maggie. And I received a great bollocking from Douglas, who then sort of reached out to the log book and sort of wrote something in it. There was a rather sort of eloquent silence, and I suddenly realized that we might be parting company, if you know what I mean, and that I might be flung out of my squadron, which would be the most dreadful thing. But as he handed the log book back, he just 6 uttered one single, sharp, expressive four letter word. And then I knew that all was well. [laughter] I shall remain with the Tangmere Wing. Gentlemen, I give you Douglas Bader. [applause] 00:10:24 [Remarks from British fighter ace Douglas Bader] DOUGLAS BADER: President Jack Johnston, gentlemen. Thank you for that very agreeable reception of the astonishing introduction of Johnnie Johnson. [laughter] Well, I don’t propose to talk for more than a few minutes, so if I could have your rapt attention I should be delighted. Firstly, I think that I must congratulate Alf Galland on his splendid remarks. If you can imagine being in the same position yourself, as he is here, I—[applause] I can only say that we’re delighted and proud to have him here with us, and it was a stroke of genius of your committee to invite him. Now, I must say that when I heard about this meeting and I heard that they were asking Alf Galland here, I said, “Look. It’s the most extraordinary thing for a Commonwealth-stroke-Empire Training Scheme reunion to ask a German fighter ace.” And there was a sort of stunned silence from the other end of the long telephone to London, and the splendid remark came back, “Well, if it hadn’t been for chaps like him, we wouldn’t have had a bloody Commonwealth Training Scheme.” [laughter] 00:12:07 DB: Now, gentlemen, it was very kind of Johnnie Johnson to say what he did. I don’t like to tell you all that the four letter word I called him, which he was in fact at the time [laughter], obviously had some tremendously good effect. Because not only did he subsequently learn to read and write—[laughter/applause]—but he also subsequently became the outstanding fighter pilot on our side during the war and a bloody fine senior officer before they discovered him and cashiered him from his last job, which was the Air Officer commanding the Middle East, and you can see the result now.