EDUCATION, CULTURE AND SPORT COMMITTEE Tuesday 14 January 2003 (Afternoon) Session 1 £5.00 Parliamentary copyright. Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body 2003. Applications for reproduction should be made in writing to the Licensing Division, Her Majesty’s Stationery Office, St Clements House, 2-16 Colegate, Norwich NR3 1BQ Fax 01603 723000, which is administering the copyright on behalf of the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body. Produced and published in Scotland on behalf of the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body by The Stationery Office Ltd. Her Majesty’s Stationery Office is independent of and separate from the company now trading as The Stationery Office Ltd, which is responsible for printing and publishing Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body publications. CONTENTS Tuesday 14 January 2003 Col. GAELIC LANGUAGE (SCOTLAND) BILL: STAGE 1 .............................................................................................. 4017 MCCRONE AGREEMENT .................................................................................................................................. 4036 REPORTERS’ INQUIRIES ................................................................................................................................... 4041 ROMAN REMAINS AT CRAMOND ....................................................................................................................... 4043 SCOTTISH SCREEN REVIEW ............................................................................................................................. 4044 EDUCATION, CULTURE AND SPORT COMMITTEE 2nd Meeting 2003, Session 1 CONVENER *Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab) DEPUTY CONVENER *Cathy Peattie (Falkirk East) (Lab) COMMITTEE MEMBERS *Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) *Ian Jenkins (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD) *Irene McGugan (North-East Scotland) (SNP) *Mr Brian Monteith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) *Michael Russell (South of Scotland) (SNP) COMMITTEE SUBSTITUTES Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Marilyn Livingstone (Kirkcaldy) (Lab) Fiona McLeod (West of Scotland) (SNP) *attended WITNESSES Mary Bryden (National Museums of Scotland) Meirion Prys Jones (Welsh Language Board) John Walter Jones (Welsh Language Board) John Mackay (Scottish Natural Heritage) Mary Maclean (Scottish Natural Heritage) CLERK TO THE COMMITTEE Martin Verity SENIOR ASSISTANT CLERK Susan Duffy ASSISTANT CLERK Ian Cowan LOCATION Committee Room 1 4017 14 JANUARY 2003 4018 SNH is committed to its Gaelic policy. I will close Scottish Parliament by making three general points. First, SNH is conscious that it is engaged in a learning process. Education, Culture and Sport Throughout its work on Gaelic language policy, it Committee has found that it wants to change the way in which it does things and it expects to develop its work in the future and to improve its performance. Tuesday 14 January 2003 Secondly, SNH wants to be sensitive to other (Afternoon) local cultural distinctiveness in Scotland, including language issues. That is very important, and [THE DEPUTY CONVENER opened the meeting at members have been given an example of text that 14:07] SNH provided for a nature reserve in Aberdeenshire. Thirdly, SNH is a conservation organisation and, Gaelic Language (Scotland) Bill: therefore, cannot resile from supporting other Stage 1 heritage conservation issues. That is a bottom line, to which all employees of SNH and its board members would sign up. The Deputy Convener (Cathy Peattie): Good afternoon. I apologise for the late start. Will Mary Bryden (National Museums of everyone ensure that his or her mobile phone or Scotland): National Museums of Scotland is telephone pager is switched off? I invite the delighted to have the opportunity to respond to the representatives of Scottish Natural Heritage— Gaelic Language (Scotland) Bill. As members John Mackay, Mary Maclean and Mary Bryden—to know, the organisation has a responsibility to give evidence on the Gaelic Language (Scotland) provide visitors from all over the world with an Bill. understanding of Scottish collections, and it is in that context that we have considered the John Mackay (Scottish Natural Heritage): I implications of the bill. will be brief. Scottish Natural Heritage’s engagement in Gaelic matters goes back to its We have always considered the Gaelic inception in 1991. Given that SNH was created as dimensions of our collections to be very important, a Scottish agency, it has worked on the abiding and members will see from their papers that we principle of being more sensitive to local needs. It wrote our policy on the use of Gaelic seven years has fulfilled that principle in several ways. For ago, in 1995. There are certain key points in the example, it has a wide distribution of local offices policy, including measures such as the throughout Scotland, which ensures that the presentation of information bilingually, where organisation is visible and accessible. names of artefacts have the Gaelic in them and Furthermore, it has area boards, which are made where using that language is particularly important up of local members who play an important role in to enhance the understanding of the collection. working with staff in each area. Of the three area The policy also puts a lot of emphasis on the boards, those in the north and the west have a key potential offered by information and interest in the bill. communications technology programmes in identifying solutions to the challenge of providing The organisation has always been keen to additional languages. communicate well on a local level. Of course, good communication is more than just language. It We have no concerns about writing a five-year is about being responsive and being seen to be a Gaelic language plan. In many respects, that reliable and trustworthy organisation. SNH has would formalise much of our on-going work. Our made a substantial effort to communicate in Gaelic paper highlights activities in some of the key areas in the Gaelic-speaking areas and to have, in a mentioned in the bill, especially how we respond sense, a Gaelic face. to external and media requests for information, and we like to think that our record for providing That was SNH’s starting point. It has been materials in Gaelic is good. working in the field for approximately 10 years and formalised its Gaelic policy two years ago. There is no point in suggesting that such Members will see from its policy that SNH provisions can be made without cost. National supports the general principles of the bill. It has Museums of Scotland has worked hard to find some reservations about the content, but that is external funding for several of our projects from more to do with how the bill might be the European Union and the National Gaelic Arts implemented. Members may want to ask us about Project. A programme of additional activity would that, as well as how SNH’s Gaelic policy has require increased funding. operated. 4019 14 JANUARY 2003 4020 Michael Russell (South of Scotland) (SNP): I Michael Russell: As it is envisaged in the bill, am delighted by the positive evidence of both the Gaelic language plan will encourage organisations, which bodes well for the future. organisations to change how they operate over a National Museums of Scotland’s submission, period of time, not immediately. Presumably you which is very helpful, provides an interesting and would treat that as a positive challenge. detailed response to the question of what should Mary Bryden: It would be a positive challenge be included in a Gaelic language plan. In fact, it in the same way as we are having to consider how more or less drafts a Gaelic language plan, as to address the needs of visitors from other outlined in the bill. It is the first time that I have countries. We have to make the collections as seen that done, and it is very useful. What accessible as possible to as many visitors as difficulties did National Museums of Scotland possible. encounter when drafting the plan and what resource implications would there be in fully Michael Russell: I turn to Scottish Natural implementing it? Heritage. I found your submission very encouraging. Strangely, the most encouraging Mary Bryden: Mike Russell has hit the nail on thing was one that might be taken as negative. It is the head. The resource issue is most important. the first sentence of paragraph 7: When drafting the plan, we considered the cost of providing CD-ROMs and estimated that it would “We have not taken, nor would we support, a universal amount to approximately £300,000. Another issue approach to the use of Gaelic throughout Scotland or is to determine how best to encourage across all our activities.” understanding of the Gaelic language and its role From your oral evidence, I understand that to in a museum. That is why we decided to provide mean that your organisation is equally sensitive to Gaelic information in, for example, sound the needs of other parts of Scotland—my guidebooks, rather than in label form. We felt that colleague Irene McGugan will kick me under the that approach also picked up on the oral tradition table if I get this wrong—particularly in terms of the of the Gaelic language. Scots language and the way in which that is If we were to consider providing even more presented in Scotland, and also the diverse information in Gaelic, there would then be a cultural needs of the areas that you serve. Does challenge in terms of space. We in museums are your organisation see Gaelic as part of the pattern concerned