DÁIL ÉIREANN AN COMHCHOISTE UM THALMHAÍOCHT AGUS MUIR JOINT COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE AND THE MARINE Dé Máirt, 9 Feabhra 2021 Tuesday, 9 February 2021 Tháinig an Comhchoiste le chéile ag 4 p.m. The Joint Committee met at 4 p.m. Comhaltaí a bhí i láthair / Members present: Teachtaí Dála / Deputies Seanadóirí / Senators Martin Browne, Victor Boyhan, Matt Carthy, Paul Daly, Michael Collins, Tim Lombard. Michael Fitzmaurice, Joe Flaherty, Paul Kehoe, Brian Leddin, Michael Ring. I láthair / In attendance: Deputy Carol Nolan. Teachta / Deputy Jackie Cahill sa Chathaoir / in the Chair. 1 JAM Business of Joint Committee Chairman: Before we begin I remind members that in the context of the current Covid-19 restrictions, only the Chairman and staff are present in the committee room and all members must join the meeting remotely from elsewhere in the parliamentary precinct. The secretariat can issue invitations to join the meeting on Microsoft Teams. Members may not participate in the meeting from outside the parliamentary precincts. Members should mute their microphones when they are not making contributions and use the raise hand function to indicate if they wish to speak. Speaking slots will be prioritised for members of the committee. Our meeting today will be in three parts, the first of which will be a private session to dis- cuss committee business. The second part is a briefing from the Irish Co-operative Organisa- tion Society, ICOS, to discuss the application of the EU Regulation on Veterinary Medicinal Products EU 2019/6. This part of the meeting will be in public session. From 4.30 p.m. until 6 p.m. the committee will have a briefing by officials from the Depart- ment of Agriculture, Food and the Marine to discuss the application of the EU Regulation on Veterinary Medicinal Products EU 2019/6. This part of the meeting will be in public session. I propose to go into private session. Is that agreed? Agreed. The joint committee went into private session at 4.05 p.m. and resumed in public session at 4.40 p.m. EU Regulation on Veterinary Medicinal Products: Irish Co-operative Organisation Soci- ety Chairman: I welcome to the meeting the representatives from the Irish Co-operative Or- ganisation Society, ICOS, Mr. T.J. Flanagan, CEO, Mr. John O’Gorman, chairman of the dairy committee, and Mr. Ray Doyle of the livestock executive, who join us remotely. The witnesses are very welcome to the meeting. I will give some context to our discussion today. The committee held a meeting with stake- holder groups in November 2020 on the topic of the regulation of veterinary medicines. ICOS was not included at that time. In organising this follow-up meeting the committee agreed to give ICOS an opportunity to present its view on the matter. Unfortunately, due to Covid-19 restrictions our time is limited. There will not be enough time for a full question and answer session. The ICOS briefing will inform the committee’s engagement with the Department of- ficials in the next session today. Before we begin, I must draw attention to the fact that witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of their evidence to the joint committee. However, if they are directed by it to cease giving evidence on a particular matter and continue to do so, they are entitled thereafter only to qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. They are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and asked to respect 2 9 FEBRUARY 2020 the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against a person, persons or an entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable. Participants at the committee meeting from a location outside the parliamentary precincts are asked to note that the constitutional protections afforded to those participating within the parliamentary precincts do not extend to them. No clear guidance can be given on whether or the extent to which their participation is covered by absolute privilege of a statutory nature. I now ask the ICOS representatives to brief the committee on the matter. I apologise for the time restrictions. Unfortunately, Covid is our governing body in that regard. I ask ICOS to give its view on the proposed change in legislation. Mr. T.J. Flanagan: I thank the Chairman. I am joined today by Mr. John O’Gorman, ICOS dairy committee, and Mr. Ray Doyle, ICOS livestock services executive. Mr. O’Gorman is a dairy farmer from south Tipperary and also the chairman of the Dairygold Co-operative Soci- ety. Mr. Doyle leads our policy efforts in animal health and animal welfare. I will defer to my colleagues in a moment but I will first make some brief opening comments on the matters at hand. ICOS has long been involved in the development of the regulatory regime for animal rem- edies in Ireland. From the 1999 report of the Irish Medicines Board, which is a predecessor to the Health Products Regulatory Authority, HPRA, recommending that access to intramammary antibiotics “should be on the basis of informed choice such as that available from a properly established and audited mastitis control programme or herd health programme.” The European Communities (Animal Remedies) Regulation SI 786/2007, schedule 8, for- mally recognises the status of a co-op mastitis control programme as a recognised structure within which a vet is in a position to make an appropriate assessment on the treatment needs of dairy cows with regard to intramammary remedies. The same regulation provides the exemp- tion for antiparasitic remedies to allow them to stay prescription free on the basis that there was, at the time, no evidence of the development of resistance in cattle. We are now faced with a new challenge with the HPRA recently recommending that anti- parasitic products can no longer avail of the aforementioned exemption due to the proven evi- dence of anthelmintic resistance in cattle, which was first demonstrated on Teagasc farms. This will result in those medicines becoming prescription only. The members should be in no doubt that shifting this group of medicines from the current merchant and co-op route of supply, or responsible persons in licensed merchants, LM, to prescription only, will result in a significant shift in sales from co-ops and merchants. This will result in economic loss and the undermin- ing of the economic basis for the stores network, as well as a substantial increase in the cost for end users. Co-ops want to reduce rather than to increase the sales of medicines, but they do want to be able to sell medicines to their members. Footfall generated in small rural branches by the sale of animal health products is an important part of their activities and if it were to be lost branches would undoubtedly close. It is the view of ICOS that the simplest solution to this change would be to investigate the potential to extend the right to prescribe those medicines to the responsible persons who now work in co-ops and merchants, as provided for in the direc- tive. We will, however, need to substantially enhance the data gathering and controls associated with that activity so we can reduce usage, halt the development of resistance and protect those valuable medicines. The Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine and the European Commission have rejected this proposition. Pending a definitive view from the Office of the Attorney General, and being conscious that time is very tight, we must prepare contingency 3 JAM strategies. Mr. Doyle will go over those in a moment. In parallel, the world has changed regarding the use of antibiotics, and the co-ops have shown great leadership in driving down the usage of dry cow tubes especially. Using the mas- titis control programme, as set out in schedule 8 of the 2007 regulations, we have seen substan- tial reductions of sales in dry cow tubes, a move towards selective dry cow therapy and many co-ops banning the use of critically important antibiotics. We accept that substantial changes will need to occur in the mechanics of prescribing dry cow tubes, with the likely necessity of moving to 100% milk recording to get a dry cow prescription. The concept of a specialist or consultant vet working out of a co-op laboratory, with access to the data on milk recording, bulk milk, sensitivity and detailed reports on dairy hygiene and other audits, continues to be robust and scientifically sound. Unfortunately, one stakeholder, the Veterinary Council of Ireland, has taken what we see as being a view more appropriate to a representative body than a regulator and has thus far rejected the concept of a co-op special- ist vet. We call on the Department to do what it did in 2007 and to recognise the strategic importance of the co-ops, large and small, in animal health and to ensure that the Veterinary Council of Ireland does not exceed its remit in this regard. I will hand over to my colleague, Mr. O’Gorman, now. Mr. John O’Gorman: I thank the Chair for the opportunity to address the committee this afternoon. The committee members will be aware that the Irish dairy industry exports more than €5 billion worth of dairy products and ingredients to over 120 countries. It is Ireland’s largest indigenous sector. The sector is extremely focused on food safety, the consumer and its reputation as a trusted supplier of safe and traceable foods. As a responsible and trusted stakeholder, the Irish dairy industry has identified the need to provide antimicrobial and antiparasitic resistance as a key priority for our farmer members.