T-MARTIAL RECORD: NAME RED6Rtc.K,LVAni L. ) 1l SSG SSN. ACTIONS CODED: ASSIGNED O: INITIAL PANEL `sr ACCA.. EXAM. DIV. FINAL COMPANION(S): RETURNTHIS.FILE TO: OFFICE OF THE CLERK OF COURT US. ARMY . JU_D1:CIrAR.Y 901 NORTH. STUART STREET" SU ITE -1200 ARLINGTON, VA. 222034 837 VOL OF VOL(S) ND 2 0 0 4 1 1 2 9 ARMY JALS-CC FORM 24, tOCTOBER 2000 . 018660 ACLU-RDI 1755 p.1 DOD-041839 VOL *Ek of VII ORIGINAL COPY VERBATIM' RECORD OF TRIAL2 (and accompanying papers) OF 64)2)424) -21- FREDERICK, Ivan L., II 111111111110 Staff Sergeant (NAME: Last, First Middle Initial) (Social Security Number) (Rank) HHC, 16th MP Bde (ABN) III Corps US Army Victory Base, Iraq (unit/Command Name) (Branch of Service) (Station or Ship) BY GENERAL COURT-MARTIAL CONVENED BY COMMANDING GENERAL (Title of Convening Authority) Headquarters, III Corps (Unit/Command of Convening Authority) TRIED AT Baghdad and Victory Base, Iraq ON 19 May, 21-22 Jun; 24 Aug; 20-21 Oct 04 (Place or Places of Trial) (Date or Dates of Trial) COMPANION CASES: SPC AMBUHL, Megan M., SGT DAVIS, Javal S., SPC GRANER, Charles A., Jr., c6A z, f 2 SPC HARMAN, Sabrina D., SPC SIVITS, Jeremy C., SPC CRUZ, Arman J., PFC ENGLAND, Lynndie R., f Transcript R.490 through prosecutionexh ribits cp o I Insert "verbatim" or summarized" as appropriate. (This form will be used by the Army and Navy for verbatim records of trial only.) 2 See inside back cover for instructions as to preparation and arrangement. DD FORM 490, OCT 84 Previous editions are obsolete. FRONT CO 4 86 6 1 2 0 0 4 1 1 2 9 ACLU-RDI 1755 p.2 DOD-041840 1 not very fruitful. When we forwarded that information up to Brigade, 2 we got, in not so many terms, we were told that we weren't getting 3 the intelligence that they expected, and therefore, we must not be 4 conducting interrogations--enough interrogations to get the 5 intelligence. 6 Q. Is it fair to say based upon your observations that there 7 was significant pressure placed upon the 205th and yourself to get 8 information of an intelligence nature out of Abu Ghraib? 9 A. I'm sorry, I didn't hear the question, sir. 10 Q. I'm sorry, I'll try to restate it. Based upon your own 11 observations, was there significant pressure placed upon your 12 battalion and the 205th to obtain intelligence information out of Abu 13 Ghraib? 14 A. Yes, sir. 15 Q. Now, did there come a time when you received in August of 16 2003 an email out of CJTF which spoke to this, "The ?1 yes are coming 4404;)ag):e. 17 off, gentlemen, regarding these detainees. Colonel MI has made it 18 clear that we want these individuals broken." Did there come a time 19 when you received that? 20 A. Yes, sir. 21 Q. Could you tell the court what your reaction to that 22 document was? 490 018662 ACLU-RDI 1755 p.3 DOD-041841 1 A. Sir, if I may have a chance to review the document. 2 Q. Yes, we have it for you. I thought you had it. I believe 3 the document is available for you right there. [Document was 4 provided to the witness.] And if you'll turn to page two. 5 ATC: Just for the record, we're looking at Defense Exhibit D, is 6 that correct? 7 CDC: Yes, I'm sorry, Defense Exhibit D. 8 WIT: Okay, sir, can you restate the question? 9 Q. Okay, have you read it now? 10 A. Yes, I have. 11 Q. Firstly, let me ask you, did you take this message 12 seriously? 13 A. Sir, it was my opinion that CJTF didn't understand how 14 interrogations were conducted because many of the people that were in 15 CJTF-7 J2X staff had no HUMINT experience. I believe that they were 16 not aware of the Geneva Convention rules and may not understand what 17 the legal ramifications were for how we did interrogation$. It was 18 my opinion that they were attempting to get us to be more aggressive 19 in the interrogations, sir. Therefore, I took their request as--I 20 took their request, or that email as an indication that they wanted 21 us to do more in the booth, sir. 491 018663 ACLU-RDI 1755 p.4 DOD-041842 1 Q. I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you. Could you say those last 2 two words? 3 A. I was saying that they wanted us to be more aggressive in 4 the booth, a literal translation of [inaudible]. 5 Q. And do you have any sense of the number of persons who 6 received this document? 7 A. Without reviewing it, I know that the distro was primarily 8 members of the 205th MI Brigade, the 519th MI Battalion, Alpha 9 Company, 519th MI Battalion, as well as some members of the Divisions 10 and their G2. 11 Q. Your impression was what? What did they want out of this 12 document 13 ATC: Objection, Your Honor. 14 MJ: Grounds? 15 ATC: Calls for speculation. 16 MJ: Sustained. Don't answer that question. Next question. 17 Q. How did you interpret---- 18 MJ: MAW what difference does it make how he interpreted 19 it? (big j 20 CDC: I believe it does make a difference. 21 MJ: Well, that's what I'm asking. 492 018664 ACLU-RDI 1755 p.5 DOD-041843 1 CDC: But I'll go on. How he interprets the document suggests 2 how he'll conduct himself. 3 MJ: I mean, I've given you a great deal of leeway on the 4 subject. But I'm just trying to figure out, he's up at Camp 5 Speicher, and is it somehow how he interprets the document up at Camp 6 Speicher influence---- 7 CDC: I think so. 8 MJ: Well, I know you think so, because you're asking the 9 question. 10 CDC: Yes. 11 MJ: But help me to understand how this---- 12 CDC: Let me rephrase this so we'll end up with a better 13 question. Is that fair enough? 14 MJ: Fair enough. 15 Questions by the defense [continued]: 16 Q. Was there chatter within the MI community about this 17 communication? 18 ATC: Objectidn, calls for hearsay. 19 MJ: Overruled. 20 A. I shared emails with.... 21 Q. With whom? 493 018665 ACLU-RDI 1755 p.6 DOD-041844 CA) -(6) OA) -2 1 A. I shared emails with Captain and CW2 1111 2 •, who was almost in shock because we couldn't believe that.... 3 Q. You'll have to say that again. 4 A. ...the violation of the Geneva Convention. 5 MJ: Ask him to repeat that. 6 Q. Could you repeat the answer? ) G.) -0) (601 00 - 7 A. I sent an email to Captain nd to CW2 Imp 8 111111 and basically on my email, I was shocked that they were 9 alluding to the fact it would be a violation of the Geneva 10 Convention. 11 DC: I have nothing further, Judge. Thank you. 12 MJ: Trial counsel? 13 CROSS-EXAMINATION C6x..)2 -otiid -a 14 Questions by the assistant trial counsel [Captai 15 Q. Chief I just have a few questions for you. How many 16 times have you actually been to Abu Ghraib? 17 A. Two times, sir. 18 Q. And over those two visits, how many hours did you actually 19 spend there? 20 A. Probably a total of about 8 hours, sir. 21 Q. Did you ever speak to any of the military police located at 22 Abu Ghraib about interrogation practices? 494 018666 ACLU-RDI 1755 p.7 DOD-041845 1 A. No, sir. 2 Q. On that distro list of the email, if you could please take 3 a look at Defense Exhibit Delta again, the email. Do you see any 4 military police on the distribution list of that email? 5 A. Sir, not by name. There's a I don't C6) (4) 6 know who that person is. -S;Mte) 7 Q. And when was your role curtailed, as l'ar as the mission at 8 Abu Ghraib is concerned? 9 A. Can you restate the question, sir? 10 Q. When was your role, in particular, curtailed concerning the 11 mission at Abu Ghraib? 12 A. Sir, it was some time in mid to late September when the 13 205th MI Brigade assumed control over Alpha Company, 519th operations 14 at the brigade, 519th--my shop no longer had control over 15 intelligence or tactical control over the operations.... 16 Q. So as of mid to late September, you had no role whatsoever 17 in the interrogation practices at Abu Ghraib? 18 A. Correct, sir. 19 ATC: Thank you. No further questions. 20 CDC: No questions, Your Honor. 21 MJ: Excuse the witness and call the next witness. 22 [The witness was excused.] 495 018667 ACLU-RDI 1755 p.8 DOD-041846 f ) 1 , civilian, was called as a witness for the 1111.111111. 2 defense, was sworn, and testified as follows: 3 DIRECT EXAMINATION (Lx4) zicbiaej 4 Questions by the trial counsel [Captain 5 Q. Mr. can you please state your full name for the 4 6 record, please? (6)&) -q),(077)VV 7 A. 8 Q. And can you please give the city and state of your 9 residence for the record, as well? 10 A.