COMMONWEALTH HEADS OF GOVERNMENT MEETING 2009 Overturning impunity INTERVIEW WITH IRENE KHAN SECRETARY GENERAL, AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL It is now 60 years since the foundation of the aren’t there, the toilets won’t function, and even then Commonwealth and almost 40 years since the the parents have to pay top-up fees, even though the Declaration of Singapore first committed the education is supposed to be free. So, many children organisation to the defence of human rights. How simply don’t get an education, which is doubly tragic would you describe the record of the Commonwealth on this issue to date and what further steps would because the education system was one of the great you like to see it taking in the future? achievements of the Mugabe regime in the 1980s. The health system’s collapsed; we saw that with Well, the Commonwealth is a very diverse group of the cholera outbreak earlier this year. The economic member states and I think in terms of human rights its system is in ruins and they are now using South African progress has been mixed. rands and US dollars as their currency. Added to which IRENE KHAN The strength of the Commonwealth is its diversity you have the history of political violence, pre-election, joined Amnesty because it cuts across different regions, so there are post-election, still bubbling beneath the surface. International in August different experiences of human rights that can be shared 2001 and is the first within the Commonwealth. What is your view on Zimbabwe being readmitted woman, first Asian and Personally, I think the Commonwealth should be to the Commonwealth? Do you think it would first Muslim to head the doing more on human rights; it’s simply a question of strengthen the development of democratic world’s largest human coming together to find solutions. A good example is the institutions or simply legitimise the status quo? rights organisation Commonwealth Human Rights Initiative (CHRI), but of The Commonwealth should open a dialogue with bringing a strong focus course there are also very difficult situations like Zimbabwe Zimbabwe on human rights and make human rights to the issue of women’s where there is no common position and then it becomes the benchmark for performance to show commitment human rights and very difficult to deal with the human rights issue. to the values of the Commonwealth, and then use violence against women. A consensus-led approach is both a strength that to measure whether Zimbabwe is ready or not for She has served as Senior and a weakness. There are many members of the membership. We have seen that the process of admission Legal Advisor for Asia Commonwealth who are still applying the death penalty, to the European Union has been a positive trigger for among other senior for example, while there are many others who have improving human rights in countries such as Turkey, posts. She is a graduate abolished it, so there is room for making progress on Bulgaria and Croatia, and the Commonwealth should of Harvard Law School that issue in the Commonwealth. If members shared approach Zimbabwe in a similar way. and received the City their experiences they would find that those who have of Sydney Peace Prize abolished it have not seen a jump in crime rates but rather How do you see the political situation developing in 2006. Irene has been they have seen an improvement in the criminal justice in Zimbabwe? Do you believe in the new power- voted one of the 100 system because there is less likelihood that mistakes will sharing government? most influential Asians be made and the wrong people executed. So, there’s When I met Prime Minister Morgan Tsvangirai a few in the UK. room there for a positive experience exchange, even months ago he was optimistic yet pragmatic, and we’ll within the constraints of a consensus-driven system. have to wait and see whether the constitutional reform process produces anything. I think it depends a lot on There has been a notable lack of consensus in the kind of messages the international community the Commonwealth on the issue of Zimbabwe. sends to Harare, both to Mugabe and to Tsvangirai. Is it simply a division between the country’s While we were in the country we heard diverse views; neighbours and the rest of the world? some people in ZANU-PF are taking a very tough line The issue is an international one, because the issues saying change is simply not going to happen. Others of human rights are not about race in Zimbabwe; it’s within ZANU-PF said ‘well yes, of course, we have to the black Zimbabweans who are suffering more than work together to build consensus; we need to change a anyone else as a result of what’s happening there. bit and they need to change a bit and between us we can When I went to Zimbabwe we visited schools, and create something’. On the MDC side there are people we saw the way in which the entire school system has who feel they want to invest in the process and test it been decimated – there’s not enough money to pay the out for a while and there are others who feel let down. 110 teachers, the schools have been destroyed, the windows For the sake of the people of Zimbabwe I hope it will FIRST succeed but I do think it will make a lot of difference have the death penalty and be a member. There hasn’t The how much attention and pressure the international been a human rights standard that the Commonwealth community keeps on the Zimbabwean government has actually picked up and said ‘this is true to our values Commonwealth because otherwise I think that things may slip. One of and a standard that we must apply as a measure for all the things we found in our report was that the systems our members’. Every Commonwealth member state has not on the ground that were used to commit human rights has signed one or more human rights treaty, so they abuses were still there – no-one has been brought to should be trying to agree on the common principles of actually given account for what they have done. Abuses may happen human rights to which they all subscribe and report it again so we must keep a close watch on it. People need better. Unless you have good reporting and monitoring, human rights more assistance but the assistance has to be well targeted human rights is just rhetoric. in the areas where it will benefit the people directly and the kind of not go into propping up the oppressive systems in the How influential do you think the Commonwealth is security apparatus and other parts of the government. on human rights issues among its member states prominence and how effective are mechanisms such as the How would you describe Amnesty’s working CHRI compared to their counterparts at the UN? that one relationship with the Commonwealth? Well they’re doing good practical work but they need I would say we have a selective relationship. In the case of to be strengthened more and to be better resourced, so would expect abolition of the death penalty, for example, we have worked that if they produce a report it’s taken very seriously. At closely with Commonwealth organisations and others to present that is not always the case. For instance, CHRI from elected raise the issue with certain countries. We also worked produced a report on Rwanda and the input that CHRI together on some issues relating to counter-terrorism. is making to the process in Rwanda should be valued governments It depends on the issue, really. Where it is a question more and CHRI should be given a stronger role on of capacity building or developing human rights that. Governments should see it as a collective resource who are all standards we find that there is much more receptivity on the basis of which they can then make decisions. and openness than in the case of a difficult country members of situation such as Zimbabwe. Rwanda’s application for Commonwealth I think that the Commonwealth has not actually membership has been championed by Tony Blair, the UN given human rights the kind of prominence that one among others, but the CHRI’s own report describes its record as very poor. Do you think it sends the would expect from elected governments who are all right signal for the Commonwealth to be admitting members of the UN. I think the organisation is driven new members under those circumstances, or do you more by political considerations – it is a political think a more rigorous and lengthy accession period, gathering, after all – but human rights can actually be such as the one for the EU, is more appropriate? used to depoliticise problems. So, I think it has a great deal of unrealised potential in this regard. The decision to admit or not is, of course, a political one. Take the European Union, for example. The death But in that political process some human rights tests penalty was made an issue: no European country can could be put in place to raise human rights standards Irene Khan: fighting for the rights of women in Bangladesh 111 FIRST COMMONWEALTH HEADS OF GOVERNMENT MEETING 2009 The cost and in the case of Rwanda, Amnesty’s primary concern them, and I don’t think women either in Pakistan or has been in the area of freedom of expression.