CANADA VOLUME 134 S NUMBER 163 S 2nd SESSION S 35th PARLIAMENT OFFICIAL REPORT (HANSARD) Thursday, April 24, 1997 Speaker: The Honourable Gilbert Parent CONTENTS (Table of Contents appears at back of this issue.) The House of Commons Debates are also available on the Parliamentary Internet Parlementaire at the following address: http://www.parl.gc.ca 10141 HOUSE OF COMMONS Thursday, April 24, 1997 The House met at 10 a.m. report is a product of a cross-country tour by the justice committee and of representations made to the justice committee from all _______________ segments of Canadian society. Prayers D (1010 ) _______________ One of the driving forces behind the report is that we incarcerate way too many young people in institutions across this country. We ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS incarcerate 10 times as many young people as Europe, 15 times as many as Australia and New Zealand. As I studied the information [English] before us I was shocked to find that we incarcerate twice as many young people as the United States. COMMUNICATIONS SECURITY ESTABLISHMENT Mr. John Richardson (Parliamentary Secretary to Minister Some adjustments must be made on the other side as well. We of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs, Lib.): Mr. have to respond to and be involved with the community. Recom- Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 32(2), it is my pleasure to mendation number four speaks specifically to that. It states that present, in both official languages, the annual report of the there should be community crime and justice councils, that the Communications Security Establishment Commissioner, 1996-97. community should be involved at the grassroots level. * * * I am proud to present this report on behalf of the justice committee. [Translation] [Translation] GOVERNMENT RESPONSE TO PETITIONS Mr. Paul Zed (Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the Mr. Michel Bellehumeur (Berthier—Montcalm, BQ): Mr. Government in the House of Commons, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, Speaker, I want to point out that the Bloc Quebecois produced a pursuant to Standing Order 36(8), I have the honour to table, in dissenting report for a good reason. After this cross country tour, as both official languages, the government’s response to nine peti- the hon. member said, and after investing tens of thousands of tions. dollars in this study, the Liberals apparently gave the impression, after considering how Quebec treated its young offenders, that they * * * would support an approach that was proposed by Quebec in the [English] sixties and would fully support the demands of the Bloc Quebecois, demands which simply reflected the wishes of all Quebecers. COMMITTEES OF THE HOUSE Instead, at the very last minute, the Liberals preferred to pay lip JUSTICE AND LEGAL AFFAIRS service to certain principles and make recommendations that were Mr. Andrew Telegdi (Waterloo, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, I have the more like campaign promises, in an attempt to satisfy part of the honour to present, in both official languages, the 13th report of the electorate in English Canada. One thing I cannot tolerate is that the government made a concession on the minimum age of young Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs. offenders by lowering it to 10 and 11, with the agreement of the I present this report with pride. The foundation of any democrat- attorney general. It is up to the government to set standards and ic society is its laws. As a democratic society we are striving for pass legislation that is enforced across Canada. If it does not want justice. to do so, it should get out of this area and hand it over to Quebec, In particular I appreciate this since I came to this country as a which is what we want, or the other provinces. refugee from a country which did not have a just legal system. However, as long as we have a Constitution and certain rules, the The report is entitled ‘‘Renewing Youth Justice’’. The report government has an obligation to pass legislation on young offend- deals with proposed amendments to the Young Offenders Act. The ers that will be enforced uniformly across this country. 10142 COMMONS DEBATES April 24, 1997 Routine Proceedings By the way, some Liberals told me I was a whiner because I [Translation] was proposing recommendations that reflected Quebec’s historic demands regarding this issue. That is one of the reasons why I decided to produce a minority report. The government would not Pursuant to Standing Order 109, the committee requests that the listen. government table a comprehensive response. As far as age is concerned, I do not think the age should be lowered this way, even with the consent of the attorneys general of Mr. Gilbert Fillion (Chicoutimi, BQ): Mr. Speaker, a dissent- the provinces. In Quebec, attorneys general will certainly not agree ing opinion on public service renewal is appended to the report by to lower the age and make 10 and 11 year-olds stand trial. In the Standing Committee on Government Operations. Western Canada people may think differently, but I think this is unacceptable. The Liberal majority report indicates the need for public service renewal, particularly since 70 per cent of all public service As far as cost sharing is concerned, one of Quebec’s demands which has been on the desk of the Minister of Justice for many executives will be eligible for retirement within the next eight months and many years, is the $77 million it costs Quebec because years. In 1996, only 1 per cent of staff were under the age of 25, we properly enforce the Young Offenders Act. Before the govern- compared to 15 per cent in 1976. ment makes recommendations as it has done in the majority report, I think it should pay what it owes Quebec and write a cheque for The Liberals could have continued in the same vein and re- $77 million. But we can get back to that during the election campaign. minded people that, during their mandate, the government has made drastic cuts to the public service in the past three years. It was not smart enough to be concerned with ensuring the transmission of My third item is the federal government’s tendency to intrude in a number of areas where it has no business to be. It is not up to the knowledge and the retention of the collective memory within the federal government to tell the provinces what to do with the money departments. This unfortunate state of affairs is, in large part, it pays them for the administration of justice. This is a provincial nothing more than the outcome of poor strategic decisions by the matter, and in this case, it is up to Quebec. Liberals during their mandate, which thankfully is coming to an end. I realize that members from English Canada do not like listening to what I have to say, but I say it with all the facts in hand, and I As for the question of the under-representation of young people have the satisfaction of having done my duty. within the public service, we again note the incompetency and shortsightedness of successive federal governments, from Pierre GOVERNMENT OPERATIONS Elliott Trudeau’s first government right down to that of the present Prime Minister. With the calling of the election only hours away, the Liberals are feeling a sudden need to act. Mr. Eugène Bellemare (Carleton—Gloucester, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, as Vice-Chair of the Standing Committee on Government Operations, I have the honour to present, in both official languages, The young people of the Outaouais region have borne the burden the third report of the Standing Committee on Government Opera- of this, no doubt about it. After three and a half years of Liberal tions on public service renewal. indifference, they now have trouble believing that this same government has taken a sudden interest in them. When the Liberals D (1015) came to power in October 1993, the unemployment level in the Outaouais for those under the age of 25, was 20.6 per cent; it has [English] now risen to 21.6 per cent. The Liberal report insists on finding excuses for the way the federal government has treated young The committee has closely monitored the renewal process in the people in the difficult cuts it has had to make. public service and has made a number of recommendations aiming to ensure that the public service is supported in a way to ensure renewal, the relève initiative, improve accountability and transpar- According to the government, by 1998-99 the program review ency and that other key initiatives be implemented so that the will have had the effect of reducing program expenditures, and the public service may continue to serve Canadians with pride and size of the federal administration, by 22 per cent. It is, moreover, efficiency. estimated that, after 1999, the government will save more than $3 billion yearly in salaries. What the Liberal report has forgotten to On a personal note, I am proud to be serving my riding and to be mention is that, in the meantime, the provinces have been forced, representing on many occasions in Parliament the interests of the because of the cuts in social transfers, to reduce staff by more than public servants. I salute our public service. 25 per cent in the areas of health, education and social services. April 24, 1997 COMMONS DEBATES 10143 Routine Proceedings [English] According to the order of reference dated March 21, 1997 your committee has approved the proposed tobacco regulations with INDUSTRY amendments. Mr. David Walker (Winnipeg North Centre, Lib.): Mr. Speak- * * * er, I have the honour to present, in both official languages, the fifth [Translation] report of the Standing Committee on Industry concerning its review of section 14 of the Patent Act amendment 1992, chapter 2, INSURANCE COMPANIES ACT Statutes of Canada 1993.