NATIONAL LIFE STORIES ARTISTS’ LIVES Derrick Greaves Interviewed by Cathy Courtney C466/83 This transcript is copyright of the British Library Board. Please refer to the Oral History curators at the British Library prior to any publication or broadcast from this document. Oral History The British Library 96 Euston Road London NW1 2DB 020 7412 7404 [email protected] IMPORTANT Access to this interview and transcript is for private research only. Please refer to the Oral History curators at the British Library prior to any publication or broadcast from this document. Oral History The British Library 96 Euston Road London NW1 2DB 020 7412 7404 [email protected] THIS TRANSCRIPT IS STILL IN DRAFT FORM Every effort is made to ensure the accuracy of this transcript, however no transcript is an exact translation of the spoken word, and this document is intended to be a guide to the original recording, not replace it. 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No.: C466/83/01-13 Playback No.: F8255-F8269 Collection title: Artists’ Lives Interviewee’s surname: Greaves Title: Mr Interviewee’s forenames: Derrick Sex: Male Occupation: Painter Date of birth: 05.06.1927 Mother’s occupation: Father’s occupation: Date(s) of recording: 07.07.1999; 17.07.1999; 27.09.1999; 15.06.2000; Location of interview: Interviewee’s home, Norfolk Name of interviewer: Cathy Courtney Type of recorder: Marantz CP430 Total no. of tapes: 13 Type of tape: Mono or stereo: Stereo Speed: Noise reduction: Dolby B Original or copy: Original Additional material: Copyright/Clearance: Tape 5 (F8259) and tape 11 (F8265) are CLOSED FOR 30 YEARS to 24/5/2031; remainder of tapes not restricted Interviewer’s comments: Derrick Greaves DRAFT Page 1 C466/83/01 F8255A [F8255 Side A] Recording with Derrick Greaves on the 7th of July 1999, at his home in Norfolk. [break in recording] Could you just tell me on the tape, you told me a lovely little anecdote about Mahler and Bruckner when I arrived; I wondered if you could put it on tape for me. I can’t remember what I said now. I honestly can’t remember what I said about Mahler and Bruckner. It was about being in the street and him having suddenly disappeared. Oh yes, yes, it was... Monika Kinley’s father told me that he’d, he’d called on Buckner one morning. and they walked out into the street, and he was chatting very animatedly to Bruckner about some issue of the day. Because he was a journalist, was Wolfe[ph], he was, he worked with Karl Kraus and, and people in Vienna. And, and of course as a journalist he knew everyone. And he was talking animatedly to Bruckner, and, Bruckner, he looked round and Bruckner wasn’t there. And he had looked over his shoulder and saw the retreating figure of Bruckner hurrying away from where they’d just come and into the apartment block that Bruckner lived in, and found himself alone in the street. Finding himself alone in the street, he, he waited and waited and waited, and eventually Bruckner re-emerged, and he said to Bruckner, [Austrian accent] ‘Well, what happened there? You are with me one moment, and, and then I look round and you are gone. I thought, what, what happened to you?’ And Bruckner said to him, ‘Oh, I had to go back and see how the work was getting on without me,’ he said. [laughs] [break in recording] I’ve put the machine on, so, you know we’re recording. Just to get the absolute basics down, where and when were you born, and what is your name? Derrick Greaves DRAFT Page 2 C466/83/01 F8255A My name is Derrick Greaves. I was going to be called Peter originally but at the altar my mother suddenly had a, a bizarre change occurred to her and she called me Derrick. I did have my father’s name, which was Harry, so I’m Derrick Harry Greaves. Born in 1927. I was apparently given up, my mother had such a bad time having me that I was given up for dead by the doctor, and thrown to the foot of the bed, cast away to the foot of the bed, and my mother’s pleadings, ‘Oh Doctor, Doctor, have another go,’ caused him in anger and frustration, because he was trying to save my mother’s life, to pick me up apparently and give me a tremendous clout, whereupon I started crying. And everybody was greatly relieved, and he too, and he turned back to my mother and saved her life. So, I was subjected during my early youth to the telling of this story by my mother to all the people that came into the house. And I think they must have had it ad nauseam, and I certainly did throughout my childhood. So were you born at home, by the sound of it? I was born at home, yes, yes, I was, yes. My father at that time was, he had been in the First World War, he’d joined up, under age, he was seventeen when he went to France. He... It was the first time, and only time I think in his life, where he was severely traumatised by death, because he worked with horses and was shipped to France almost immediately with very little training at seventeen, and had his horses die around him, his own horses die around him. First of all there was the cross- Channel crossing, which was horrendous enough, and, sleeping amongst horses’ vomit on board ship, and so on; and then they got to France and almost immediately went to the front line. And, he would only talk about his experiences in the First World War when he was in his cups, which was rare, because he was not a drunkard; he was a drinker, a regular pub drinker, but he was not a drunkard. And he would talk about this experience, early experience of his when he had had a few too many. And, he would attempt to laugh about it, but the heart, at heart he was wounded deeply by it, and traumatised I think for the rest of his life. I mean he told one story about going up to the front line and, he got lost, and so, as night fell he put the food bags on the horses and bedded down between his horses. He was carrying ammunition, carrying ammunition wagons, which I think at that time must have been empty otherwise I think they’d have all had it. But he woke up in the morning, having slept the sleep of Derrick Greaves DRAFT Page 3 C466/83/01 F8255A the just, and found that all round him, as far as he could see, in the full light of day, everything was dead, trees were dead, horses, the horses on each side of him were dead. And he stood up in a flat landscape of utter desolation. And was lost. And so, seeing the way the horses were pointing with their heads forward, he turned round the other way and started walking what he thought was back. So he sort of walked back, until he eventually came to his own lines and they took him in. But I think such...there were several of these experiences, which I, as I say, he would only retell round about Christmas time if he got his, had had too...people had plied him with too much celebratory drink or something. And he tried to laugh them off, but I think it was a desperate attempt to try to, to come to terms with these, as amusing tales. They were far from amusing. And as I grew older and watched him, I saw that he’d, it had made him into a silent man. He was rather gregarious by nature, but, he became a very silent man. And, when you were older, did you ever talk to him, did he live long enough for you to...? I tried, very often, to talk to him, but, he couldn’t talk to me, couldn’t relate to me. I once went to him with a problem, and I thought that with his seniority he’d be able to, and as my father, he would be able to help me, and I tried to talk to him, and realised that I had to pull away, it was too much for him, he couldn’t handle it at all. So, I stopped trying, I sort of, forgave him and came away. Disappointed but, realising that I couldn’t expect anything from that quarter. What sort of age were you at that time? I’d be, about twenty I think, twenty, twenty-one. Mm, and you never tried again? Not really, no. I mean I, I rubbed along quite nicely with him really after...all my life really. And he was a, he was a distantly affectionate father. My mother was the, the vitality quotient really. She had been a, a seamstress, she had had an apprentice, she’d done an apprenticeship to, dressmaking. And she worked in various eccentric Derrick Greaves DRAFT Page 4 C466/83/01 F8255A establishments as a young girl in Sheffield, to make dresses. And, she was talented, I mean absolutely wonderful dressmaking. When I, when I was a kid she, because we were on hard times, as a little family, I’m an only child, she made all my clothes, you know, she made all my little, shorts and jackets shirts and things, and she made them out of old hand-me-downs from neighbours and, and things.