© 2008, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved. PLEASE CREDIT ANY QUOTES OR EXCERPTS FROM THIS CBS TELEVISION PROGRAM TO "CBS NEWS' FACE THE NATION." CBS News FACE THE NATION Sunday, April 27, 2008 GUESTS: Mr. DAVID AXELROD Chief Strategist, Obama Campaign Mr. HOWARD WOLFSON Communications Director, Clinton Campaign Mr. ROGER MUDD Former CBS News Correspondent, Author, “The Place to Be” MODERATOR/PANELIST: Mr. Bob Schieffer – CBS News This is a rush transcript provided for the information and convenience of the press. Accuracy is not guaranteed. In case of doubt, please check with FACE THE NATION - CBS NEWS (202)-457-4481 Face the Nation (CBS News) - Sunday, April 27, 2008 1 BOB SCHIEFFER, host: Today on FACE THE NATION, is the race for the Democratic nomination tearing the party apart? Less than two weeks remain before the Indiana and North Carolina primaries, but is the bitter race dividing the party? And is the split along racial lines? We'll talk with top advisers to the two campaigns: for Senator Clinton, Howard Wolfson; for Senator Obama, David Axelrod. Then we'll talk with former CBS News correspondent Roger Mudd, who's got a new book out about television, politics and the way it used to be. I'll have a final word on history in the making. But first, is the campaign hurting the party on FACE THE NATION. Announcer: FACE THE NATION, with CBS News chief Washington correspondent Bob Schieffer. And now, from CBS News in Washington, Bob Schieffer. SCHIEFFER: And good morning again. Joining us from Chicago, Obama's chief campaign strategist, David Axelrod. With us from New York, Clinton communication director and strategist Howard Wolfson. Gentlemen, thank you both for coming. I want to get right to it, this whole idea that a racial divide is developing in the Democratic Party. Mr. Wolfson, let me just quote something that was said by James Clyburn. He, of course, is the African-American congressman from South Carolina. He's the third-ranking member of the Democratic congressional leadership. He said, according to The New York Times, there is a widely-held opinion among African-Americans that the Clintons are committed to doing everything possible to damage Senator Obama to the point that he won't be able to win the general election, the idea being to set it up so Hillary Clinton can run against John McCain four years from now. How do you respond to that kind of a charge? Mr. HOWARD WOLFSON (Communications Director, Clinton Campaign): Well, we just disagree. First of all, this primary contest has been great for the Democratic Party. We have seen record turnout in states that Senator Obama won, and we've seen record turnout in states that Senator Clinton won, most recently in Pennsylvania. Democrats are enthused, they're excited. They want to send a Democrat to the White House. SCHIEFFER: Well, why then would Congressman Clyburn say something like that? Mr. WOLFSON: Well, I'm sure he's sincere in saying that, and he's, of course, entitled to his belief, but I think that both the Obama campaign and the Clinton campaign are absolutely committed to coming together at the conclusion of this process, coming behind whoever the nominee is, and enthusiastically supporting that person. I believe that person will be Senator Clinton, of course. But regardless of the outcome of this primary contest, we're going to come together as a party, we're going to go behind whoever is the nominee, and we're going to do everything we can to elect that person because the stakes are that high. SCHIEFFER: Well, David Axelrod, what do you say in response to that? BURRELLE 'S INFORMATION SERVICES / (202)419-1859 / (800)456-2877 Face the Nation (CBS News) - Sunday, April 27, 2008 2 Mr. DAVID AXELROD (Chief Strategist, Obama Campaign): Well, you know, in many ways I agree with Howard. I think that we do have a party that's very, very focused on winning. We understand that a continuation of these Republican policies would be disastrous for people across Indiana, across North Carolina, who are sitting there this morning watching this program and going through their bills and wondering how they're going to pay them, and know that we can't afford more of the same Bush economic policies. But--and the question is how we get to that change, and I think there--that's important. We do have to come together as--not just as a party, but as a country. We have to get past our divisions. We have to push back on the special interests in Washington. We have to level with the American people about what needs to be done and move forward, and that's what Senator Obama is offering. I don't, by the way, believe that Senator Clinton--I think she's competing very hard. I don't think she's doing it because she wants to defeat Senator Obama in the fall, I think she's doing it because she wants to be the nominee, and we have a very spirited battle going right now. SCHIEFFER: Well, let's talk about that just a little bit, because not only are we seeing a divide here over race--she gets 65 percent of the white vote in Pennsylvania, he got 90 percent of the black vote--we see a difference, a breakdown in age--he seems to do better among the younger, she does better among the older. He does better among those in a higher economic level, she does better with those at the lower level. Is it going to come down to, don't both of these candidates need each other, and won't, no matter who wins this thing, won't they have to put the other one on the ticket, Mr. Wolfson? Mr. WOLFSON: Well, I think both of them have run very strong races. But I think it is very premature to talk about a ticket at this point. We have many contests yet to come. We have nine contests remaining. We're very much looking forward to those contests. Millions of Americans have yet to weigh in. We have Florida and Michigan yet to be decided. And so there's a long road ahead of us. And, as David said, we're having a spirited but fair battle between two very strong candidates. SCHIEFFER: Well, what is it that has caused this divide, Mr. Wolfson? Why is it the party seems--it looks like there's just a wide gap here between what people on one side of the party think and what a whole different group think on the other side. Why do you think that is? Mr. WOLFSON: Well, I don't think that's unusual. I think you have two strong candidates with a lot of passionate supporters, and I think an awful lot has been written about Senator Obama's ability to inspire his supporters. Senator Clinton also has an enormous ability to inspire her supporters. Some of those are different people. But as we saw in Pennsylvania, she is somebody who can appeal to working people, people who have real concerns about this economy. She won overwhelmingly with those voters who were concerned about the economy. She has been campaigning strongly throughout this country, appealing to the middle class and focusing on people who want to turn this economy around, want to get gas prices down, want to get health care for everyone. But--so I don't think there's anything unusual that both candidates should inspire strong passions in the behalf of their supporters. BURRELLE 'S INFORMATION SERVICES / (202)419-1859 / (800)456-2877 Face the Nation (CBS News) - Sunday, April 27, 2008 3 SCHIEFFER: Well, Mr. Axelrod, why is it that Senator Obama's having such a hard time getting through to working-class Democrats? I mean, I think it'd be very difficult for any Democrat to get elected without a large African-American vote, but, by the same token, how's a Democrat going to win if he can't win blue-collar voters? Mr. AXELROD: Well, and certainly Senator Obama has proven through many of these primaries that he can do very well with that vote. Don't assume that because Senator Clinton did well in some that that means that we can't do well in the general election with these voters. And we've in--according to the places where there were exit polls in a dozen or so of these states we carried, we carried that vote. But, Bob, yes, we need that vote, and we need--we need the votes of minorities and we need the votes of independent voters, we need the votes of disaffected Republicans. And what Senator Obama has done in these primaries and what he would do as a general election candidate is bring all these elements together in the coalition we need to win. We can't win with any single one of them; we have to have all of them. And that entails having a candidate who can, as Howard says, inspire and encourage people to come together and see our common stake in each other as Americans. We've been missing that in our politics, and I think that's one of the reasons Senator Obama has engendered such enthusiasm and brought so many new people into the process. SCHIEFFER: Well, I mean, with all--with all due respect to both of you, you both say that these are candidates who can bring all these people together, but at this point, neither of them has.