LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 3 November 2010 1399 OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS Wednesday, 3 November 2010 The Council met at Eleven o'clock MEMBERS PRESENT: THE PRESIDENT THE HONOURABLE JASPER TSANG YOK-SING, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ALBERT HO CHUN-YAN IR DR THE HONOURABLE RAYMOND HO CHUNG-TAI, S.B.S., S.B.ST.J., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LEE CHEUK-YAN DR THE HONOURABLE DAVID LI KWOK-PO, G.B.M., G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE FRED LI WAH-MING, S.B.S., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE MARGARET NG THE HONOURABLE JAMES TO KUN-SUN THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG MAN-KWONG THE HONOURABLE CHAN KAM-LAM, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS SOPHIE LEUNG LAU YAU-FUN, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LEUNG YIU-CHUNG DR THE HONOURABLE PHILIP WONG YU-HONG, G.B.S. 1400 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 3 November 2010 THE HONOURABLE WONG YUNG-KAN, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LAU KONG-WAH, J.P. THE HONOURABLE LAU WONG-FAT, G.B.M., G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MIRIAM LAU KIN-YEE, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE EMILY LAU WAI-HING, J.P. THE HONOURABLE ANDREW CHENG KAR-FOO THE HONOURABLE TIMOTHY FOK TSUN-TING, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE TAM YIU-CHUNG, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ABRAHAM SHEK LAI-HIM, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LI FUNG-YING, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE TOMMY CHEUNG YU-YAN, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE FREDERICK FUNG KIN-KEE, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE AUDREY EU YUET-MEE, S.C., J.P. THE HONOURABLE VINCENT FANG KANG, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE WONG KWOK-HING, M.H. THE HONOURABLE LEE WING-TAT THE HONOURABLE JEFFREY LAM KIN-FUNG, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ANDREW LEUNG KWAN-YUEN, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG HOK-MING, G.B.S., J.P. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 3 November 2010 1401 THE HONOURABLE WONG TING-KWONG, B.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE RONNY TONG KA-WAH, S.C. THE HONOURABLE CHIM PUI-CHUNG PROF THE HONOURABLE PATRICK LAU SAU-SHING, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE KAM NAI-WAI, M.H. THE HONOURABLE CYD HO SAU-LAN THE HONOURABLE STARRY LEE WAI-KING, J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE LAM TAI-FAI, B.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHAN HAK-KAN THE HONOURABLE PAUL CHAN MO-PO, M.H., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHAN KIN-POR, J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE LEUNG KA-LAU THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG KWOK-CHE THE HONOURABLE WONG SING-CHI THE HONOURABLE WONG KWOK-KIN, B.B.S. THE HONOURABLE IP WAI-MING, M.H. THE HONOURABLE IP KWOK-HIM, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS REGINA IP LAU SUK-YEE, G.B.S., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE PAN PEY-CHYOU DR THE HONOURABLE SAMSON TAM WAI-HO, J.P. 1402 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 3 November 2010 THE HONOURABLE ALAN LEONG KAH-KIT, S.C. THE HONOURABLE LEUNG KWOK-HUNG THE HONOURABLE TANYA CHAN THE HONOURABLE ALBERT CHAN WAI-YIP THE HONOURABLE WONG YUK-MAN MEMBERS ABSENT: DR THE HONOURABLE JOSEPH LEE KOK-LONG, S.B.S., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE PRISCILLA LEUNG MEI-FUN THE HONOURABLE PAUL TSE WAI-CHUN PUBLIC OFFICERS ATTENDING: THE HONOURABLE JOHN TSANG CHUN-WAH, G.B.M., J.P. THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL SUEN MING-YEUNG, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION THE HONOURABLE STEPHEN LAM SUI-LUNG, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AND MAINLAND AFFAIRS DR THE HONOURABLE YORK CHOW YAT-NGOK, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH THE HONOURABLE TSANG TAK-SING, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 3 November 2010 1403 PROF THE HONOURABLE K C CHAN, S.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES AND THE TREASURY THE HONOURABLE MRS CARRIE LAM CHENG YUET-NGOR, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR DEVELOPMENT CLERKS IN ATTENDANCE: MS PAULINE NG MAN-WAH, SECRETARY GENERAL MRS CONSTANCE LI TSOI YEUK-LIN, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL MRS VIVIAN KAM NG LAI-MAN, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL 1404 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 3 November 2010 TABLING OF PAPERS The following papers were laid on the table under Rule 21(2) of the Rules of Procedure: Subsidiary Legislation/Instruments L.N. No. Human Organ Transplant (Amendment) Regulation 2010........................................................................ 143/2010 Human Organ Transplant (Appeal Board) Regulation ...... 144/2010 ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Questions. First question. Implementation of Education Regulations and Child Care Services Regulations 1. MR PAUL CHAN (in Cantonese): President, Honourable colleagues, good morning. My question is: although the fees of kindergartens and child care centres are regulated under the Education Regulations and the Child Care Services Regulations, it has been reported that recently, a kindergarten had organized various interest classes and catechism classes in the name of a third party and collected fees from students who attended those classes. The catechism classes were allegedly organized by students' parents on their own initiative. Yet, the fees collected had gone into the account of a limited company, the directors of which are the principal and supervisors of the kindergarten. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council: (a) whether the Government has assessed if the practice of the kindergarten referred to in those reports is regulated under the Education Regulations and the Child Care Services Regulations and if such practice is appropriate; if the assessment outcome is in the affirmative, of the reasons for that; if the assessment outcome is in the negative, what follow-up actions will be taken by the Government; LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 3 November 2010 1405 (b) whether the Government will review the Education Regulations and the Child Care Services Regulations so as to eradicate the aforesaid practice of kindergartens; if it will, when and in what way the review will be conducted; if not, of the reasons for that; and (c) of the number of complaints received by the Government in the past three years which involved kindergartens charging fees in a similar manner, as well as the number of complaints involving kindergartens suspected to have contravened the Education Regulations and the Child Care Services Regulations and their contents; among such complaints, of the respective number of cases on which investigation was conducted, which were substantiated, for which prosecutions were instituted and the persons involved were convicted and, in respect of the convicted cases, the names of the kindergartens or child care centres involved and the penalties imposed? SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION (in Cantonese): President, my reply to the three-part question raised by Mr CHAN regarding the fees of kindergartens is as follows: (a) First of all, the Education Bureau does not allow schools to charge in a dishonest or improper way any fees from parents or students for services or activities. Any such act will be dealt with seriously. I suppose that the case referred to in the question is the one involving the York English & Chinese Kindergarten, which has attracted wide coverage in the media. Upon receipt of enquiries from the media, the Education Bureau immediately followed up the case with the operator of the kindergarten concerned. On 29 September 2010, the Education Bureau telephoned the kindergarten to enquire about the matter. The kindergarten explained that the activities concerned were catechism activities organized by a small number of parents on their own initiative. This parent group had requested the kindergarten to provide the venue and administrative support, and would arrange for some experienced instructors trained in divinity to teach catechism to parents. The fees paid by the participating parents, after deducting the instructors' fees and administrative 1406 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 3 November 2010 expenses, would be contributed to the church. According to the kindergarten's notice to parents subsequently submitted to the Education Bureau, the kindergarten had contacted the local Catholic Church and held a briefing session, and the catechism classes would be held in one of the kindergarten premises. However, the kindergarten later clarified to the Education Bureau that the Catholic Diocese of Hong Kong opined that catechism and Sunday school classes should be approved by the parish concerned and should be free of charge. In view of this, the kindergarten had requested the parent group to return all cheques to parents. Meanwhile, having found that the cheque payee was a limited company, the Education Bureau sent a letter to the kindergarten on 5 October, requiring it to provide in writing further information on the catechism classes, including the relationship between the kindergarten and the cheque payee. In its reply, the kindergarten stated that as requested by parents, an independent private limited company, that is, the cheque payee, had been commissioned to collect and provisionally keep the cheques submitted by parents who intended to join the catechism classes. The kindergarten reiterated in the reply that it was not involved in the acceptance of payment. However, the kindergarten did not explain its relationship with the cheque payee, that is, the company. After checking with the Companies Registry, the Education Bureau found that the directors of the company were the principal and the supervisor of the kindergarten and the registered address of the company was the same as one of the kindergarten premises. In consideration of the above information and the fact that the kindergarten's reply failed to clear up our doubts, the Education Bureau wrote again to the kindergarten, demanding clarification on the relationship between the kindergarten and the company, information about the parents who organized the classes, explanation for the payment collection arrangements, and confirmation as to whether parents were informed of the relationship between the kindergarten and the company.