LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 9 July 2009 10247 OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS Thursday, 9 July 2009 The Council continued to meet at Nine o'clock MEMBERS PRESENT: THE PRESIDENT THE HONOURABLE JASPER TSANG YOK-SING, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ALBERT HO CHUN-YAN IR DR THE HONOURABLE RAYMOND HO CHUNG-TAI, S.B.S., S.B.ST.J., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LEE CHEUK-YAN DR THE HONOURABLE DAVID LI KWOK-PO, G.B.M., G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE FRED LI WAH-MING, S.B.S., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE MARGARET NG THE HONOURABLE JAMES TO KUN-SUN THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG MAN-KWONG THE HONOURABLE CHAN KAM-LAM, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS SOPHIE LEUNG LAU YAU-FUN, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LEUNG YIU-CHUNG DR THE HONOURABLE PHILIP WONG YU-HONG, G.B.S. 10248 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 9 July 2009 THE HONOURABLE WONG YUNG-KAN, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LAU KONG-WAH, J.P. THE HONOURABLE LAU WONG-FAT, G.B.M., G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MIRIAM LAU KIN-YEE, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE EMILY LAU WAI-HING, J.P. THE HONOURABLE ANDREW CHENG KAR-FOO THE HONOURABLE TIMOTHY FOK TSUN-TING, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE TAM YIU-CHUNG, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ABRAHAM SHEK LAI-HIM, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LI FUNG-YING, B.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE TOMMY CHEUNG YU-YAN, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ALBERT CHAN WAI-YIP THE HONOURABLE FREDERICK FUNG KIN-KEE, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE AUDREY EU YUET-MEE, S.C., J.P. THE HONOURABLE VINCENT FANG KANG, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE WONG KWOK-HING, M.H. THE HONOURABLE LEE WING-TAT DR THE HONOURABLE JOSEPH LEE KOK-LONG, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE JEFFREY LAM KIN-FUNG, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ANDREW LEUNG KWAN-YUEN, S.B.S., J.P. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 9 July 2009 10249 THE HONOURABLE ALAN LEONG KAH-KIT, S.C. THE HONOURABLE LEUNG KWOK-HUNG THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG HOK-MING, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE WONG TING-KWONG, B.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE RONNY TONG KA-WAH, S.C. THE HONOURABLE CHIM PUI-CHUNG PROF THE HONOURABLE PATRICK LAU SAU-SHING, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE KAM NAI-WAI, M.H. THE HONOURABLE CYD HO SAU-LAN THE HONOURABLE STARRY LEE WAI-KING DR THE HONOURABLE LAM TAI-FAI, B.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHAN HAK-KAN THE HONOURABLE PAUL CHAN MO-PO, M.H., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHAN KIN-POR, J.P. THE HONOURABLE TANYA CHAN DR THE HONOURABLE PRISCILLA LEUNG MEI-FUN DR THE HONOURABLE LEUNG KA-LAU THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG KWOK-CHE THE HONOURABLE WONG SING-CHI THE HONOURABLE WONG KWOK-KIN, B.B.S. 10250 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 9 July 2009 THE HONOURABLE WONG YUK-MAN THE HONOURABLE IP WAI-MING, M.H. THE HONOURABLE IP KWOK-HIM, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS REGINA IP LAU SUK-YEE, G.B.S., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE PAN PEY-CHYOU THE HONOURABLE PAUL TSE WAI-CHUN DR THE HONOURABLE SAMSON TAM WAI-HO, J.P. PUBLIC OFFICERS ATTENDING: THE HONOURABLE HENRY TANG YING-YEN, G.B.M., G.B.S., J.P. THE CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION THE HONOURABLE JOHN TSANG CHUN-WAH, J.P. THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY THE HONOURABLE STEPHEN LAM SUI-LUNG, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AND MAINLAND AFFAIRS DR THE HONOURABLE YORK CHOW YAT-NGOK, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH THE HONOURABLE TSANG TAK-SING, J.P. SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS THE HONOURABLE MATTHEW CHEUNG KIN-CHUNG, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND WELFARE PROF THE HONOURABLE K C CHAN, S.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES AND THE TREASURY THE HONOURABLE MRS CARRIE LAM CHENG YUET-NGOR, J.P. SECRETARY FOR DEVELOPMENT LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 9 July 2009 10251 THE HONOURABLE EDWARD YAU TANG-WAH, J.P. SECRETARY FOR THE ENVIRONMENT THE HONOURABLE EVA CHENG, J.P. SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT AND HOUSING THE HONOURABLE MRS RITA LAU NG WAI-LAN, J.P. SECRETARY FOR COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT CLERKS IN ATTENDANCE: MS PAULINE NG MAN-WAH, SECRETARY GENERAL MRS CONSTANCE LI TSOI YEUK-LIN, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL MRS JUSTINA LAM CHENG BO-LING, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL MRS PERCY MA, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL 10252 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 9 July 2009 PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Clerk, please ring the bell to summon Members to the Chamber. (After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members entered the Chamber) PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Good morning, Members. Council now resumes and continues with the proposed resolution on amending the Code of Practice on Employment under the Race Discrimination Ordinance. MOTIONS PROPOSED RESOLUTION UNDER THE RACE DISCRIMINATION ORDINANCE Continuation of debate on motion which was moved on 8 July 2009 MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): President, first of all, I am grateful to Members who have spoken. They made me understand what racial discrimination and the Race Discrimination Ordinance (the Ordinance) are. In fact, the people of Hong Kong live under two large cultures or empires. One is the British Empire. And culturally, we are affected by the Chinese ethnic consciousness which is dominated by the Han race. Both of them make us prone to discrimination. Let me first talk about the British instead of the Chinese. The British think that if you do not speak English, there is no other language to speak. An Honourable colleague cited yesterday an embarrassing situation which the Chief Executive experienced in which he said that the ethnic minorities should at least be able to read English if they could not read Chinese. I once met a lady who thought that all people in the world spoke English. This is a true incident. I met her in Britain and she thought that all people in the world spoke English. Actually, when she met me, she should realize that not all people in the world spoke English because I was speaking to another person in Cantonese at that time. Hence, this thinking is entrenched, and the Chinese are no different. When other people do not speak in our language, we will ask what they mean, suspecting LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 9 July 2009 10253 whether they have any unscrupulous moves, or whether they want to plot against us. The people from Guangdong are the same. We call people from other provinces "Laoxiong" (Old Brother) in Putonghua. Sometimes we even use "Laoxiong" to laugh at them. Admittedly some people address others by their characteristics in a bid to show intimacy, but discrimination can be said to be a kind of cancer, and sometimes I would also discriminate others without knowing. Hence, when we know that it is not right to have discrimination, particularly racial discrimination, the Government of Hong Kong or all governments in the world will seek to minimize it. The resolution today, which proposes to adopt the Code of Practice on Employment (Code of Practice) under the Ordinance, seeks not only to tell the Government and the people of Hong Kong through legislation that this kind of behaviour is inappropriate, but also hopes to provide something for the people of Hong Kong to adhere to. I always prefer renaming the "Code of Practice" as the "Code of Conduct" because the former is about the kind of work that should be done, but which is prone to paying lip service. "Conduct" means that after you have a concept like this and you truly regard it as a principle in your heart, then you will develop a set of behaviour. This is better. I believe that naming it as the "Code of Practice" is probably a perfunctory approach. As such, the Code of Practice, despite having its legislative aim and intent, will not yield satisfactory results after its implementation, or its intent will be distorted. I listened to Mr Frederick FUNG's speech yesterday. His speech has awakened me to the fact that the Equal Opportunities Commission (EOC) has to handle such a large amount of work. Other than racial discrimination, its purview covers other forms of discrimination. We all know that the so-called scope of racial discrimination does not include the new arrivals to Hong Kong. This is a major omission. Certainly, the Ordinance has already entered the stage of the Code of Practice and it is useless to say any more about this now. But I still hold that as long as a certain type of people is discriminated in society, you have to deal with it. You cannot say that they are from the Mainland and they are not another race, so they cannot be included in the scope of racial discrimination. I think that …… Fine, even if we regard them as the same race …… Secretary Stephen LAM (have you worn your medal today? I guess not. You got this medal and now you have come here to answer our questions perfunctorily, indeed, you are). You will probably use a bit of your sophistry 10254 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 9 July 2009 and say to me that you are now talking about racial discrimination, and that the Administration never regards our mainland compatriots as belonging to another race, so it will not handle this issue. Secretary, I wish to digress a little and ask you when you will handle this issue? They are a group of people who has been subjectively discriminated, whether such discrimination is rendered intentionally or not.