Date:08/13/93 Page:1 JFK ASSASSINATION SYSTEM IDENTIFICATION FORM -----_-_____________------------------------------------------------------------ AGENCY INFORMATION AGENCY : HSCA RECORD NUMBER : 180-10097-10183 RECORDS SERIES : NUMBERED FILES AGENCY FILE NUMBER : 002035 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DOCUMENT INFORMATION ORIGINATOR : NEW ORLEANS DISTRICT ATTORNEY FROM TO : TITLE DATE : 02/24/69 PAGES : 90 SUBJECTS : SHAW, CLAY L. FINCK, PIERCE A. GARRISON INVESTIGATOR STATE OF LOUISIANA V. CLAY L. SHAW DOCUMENT TYPE : TRANSCRIPT CLASSIFICATION : U RESTRICTIONS : OPEN IN FULL CURRENT STATUS : 0 DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 05/06/93 OPENING CRITERIA : COMMENTS : Transcript of court proceedings. Box 45. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [RI - ITEM IS RESTRICTED JFK Collection: HSCA (Rd 233) CRIMINAL DISTRICT COURT PARISH OF ORLEANS STATE OF LOUISIANA . STATE OF LOUISIANA . 198-059 . vs. 1426(30) . -'! CLAY L. SHAW . SECTION "C" *' . \ I 1' i PROCEEDINGS IN OPEN COURT, Monday, February 24, 1969 . .:- . Dietriclr & Pickett, Inc. _ ._ S-%P . .. 333 ST. CHARLES AVENUE, SUITE 1221 NEW ORLEANS, LOUISIANA 70130- 822-3111 IITNESS: DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS 'IERRE A. FINCK,M.D. 2 42 --------EXHIBITS WMBER IDENTIFIED OFFERED RECEIVED 6 j-27 18 18 19 b-28 27 .28 30 . - I-29 35 36 36 - z i-67 55 we -- . L i-68 64-68 68 68 a L-69 77 78 78 ,._ . ;-70 79 . 79 79 : ..-.._ ; ;.- - i... _ ; _‘-. ‘I, 14 i.. .,., .:.’ ., .i .\.. .-..- / 15 .,. 16 i 17 1 18 ! - - 19 4 . ;.” . :. J :*. 21 . -: .: .I _, -.:-. ‘- . 22 . 23 . .. ,. .:.-. 24 . .~ ‘2 1 25 -@ , . _. Bring the Jury down. I trust you gentlemen had a nice weekend. Is the State and the Defense ready to proceed? 6 MR. DYMOND: Ready. , MR. OSER:' .:_ __: + . 9 We are ready, Your Honor. 10 THE COURT: -I*i 11 proceed. 9.._ .y,.,-_ ,..---. .:. -*:. .:.. -. - - . i 12 - 13 ,- We now call Dr. Finck. .- ~ T-b _’ ._ _.._ , -, __l.- ‘--. , .<I 14 . ,_. PIERRE A. FINCK, M.D.,.< ./_ .. -_ 15 having been first duly sworn by the Minute Clerk, 16 was examined and testified as follows: DIRECT EXAMINATION ,. __ 18 BY MR. DYEiONDt --, ._ - -_. .i,'.t-. !y:,:a -.- .. 2.-Q Dr. Finck, for the recbrd, would-you kindly,& ;p&;~:: < '. __ '. .', .' .' 52:. ' j;;.j,:. state your full name; '." :.; ... + ._ -.<y. : :... -' 21 A ' My first name is pierre,.p-i-e-r-r-e, is my .: A middle initial, and my last name is Finck, F-i-n-c-k, -. ">.,',"-I, .;, .: .. ,, T.. .. : 24 Q NOW, Dr.‘Finck, what is your profeasion, sir? A I am a full Colonel in the United States Army i” . ’ yc.. .:- ’ Wl N Medical Corps, I am's physician in the . 4 Army, a specialist in pathology. Q Are you the holder of a medical degree, Dr. Finck? A Yes, from the University Of Geneva Medical school, Switzerland, I obtained a Federal Degree of Physician in 1948 in Switzerland Q NOW, what has been your experience in the medical profession since having obtained your degree in 19483 '7 t- 'l' A I had four years of formal university training I- in Pathology, two of them at the universi- ty of Geneva Institute of Pathology, and : '. two of them at the University of Tennessee i. :: 15 .,I, _d Medical School in Memphis, Tennessee. , - c?.- 16 Q Now, may I interrupt you one moment and ask you whether-or not-this specific training ia . in pathology came after your having ob- tained a regular medical degree? , # -I stated that I had four years-of formal ,, : Pathology training after my M.D.- degree, '_ and I was an instructor of Pathology at i. 23 i ,L. the University. of Tennessee, Memphis. 24 Q NW, Doctor, Of what have your duties consistec ,. , JFK Collection: United States Army in 1955. I was sent to Germany where I was a Pathologist of the United States Army Hospital, Frankfurt F-r-a-n-k-f-u-r-t, and there I performed autoposies, many of them of a medical- legal nature, involving trauma, violent a deaths, bullet wounds, accidents, and then in 1959 I was sent to the Armed Fbrces Institute of Pathology in Washington, ='! D.C., on the grounds of Walter Reed .I - Medical Center. The Armed Forces Insti- tute of pathology is the central reposi- tory and consultation facility for the Federal Military Services, the Veterans I:L 16 Administration, and we have some 2,000 civilian contributors in the united ia States and throughoutthe world who‘ send c cases to us for consultation of a pathological nature.. In brief, pathology is the study of disease but in my.particu- lar field, the field of forensic patholog] I x: f-o-r-e-n-s-i-c, it‘is the interpretation 24 of medical-legal cases as they pertain to the law, cases of.violent deaths, of un- . .’ : t -; ‘,f. ‘.. ,; .: ;- .. -’ -. ._ “l-_ $9, . .,-- ..” “. -r,;,.,,- explained deaths, unexpected deaths, - poisonings, manners of deaths, such as homicide, suicide, accidents, undetermined deaths. The adjective "forensic" comes from the Latin Eorum, f-o-r-u-m, which 6 means the public place, the market place, so forensic indicates a public interest. It may relate to criminal matters, in- surance cases, .claims, lawsuits, litiga- tion in general, and in November of 19&O& mi I was appointed Chief of the Wound, ' ; ~ W-o-u-n-d, Ballistic8 Pathology Branch at the Armed Forces Institute of #-- pathology hereafter abbreviated APIP, I 15 l , ?. ,- --.._,. repeat APIP. >,..r5,~; Y-':- ‘. - _ . J. 16 In 1961 I applied to take the examination in 'forensic-pathology, the American Board of Pathology'-on the baais of my interest- in c this field ae a-medical student,"as a '.. physician; as .a.pathologist durjng my : _ trainih+;i: and in the Army in Europe. I had lettera,' for-example, from the Provo81 23 Marshal, who is the'chief-of Police, that 24 is the 'title of the-Chief of police in the .. United States Army, who stated that I had -- JFK Collection: HS ':q . contributed to the interpretation of _ 5 violent deaths, medical-legal cases in several instances. On that basis the American Board of Pathology'accepted my training and my qualifications to take 6 the examination of the American Board Of pathology in the specialty of Forensic 8 Pathology,. I had taken already -- this 9 is a requirement, I had taken the ex- 10 amination to be certified in anatomic - 'I 11 pathology in 1956. On the basis of the-~ 12 requirements I-mentioned, the Anatomic 13 Pathology Board and my qualifications to 14 take the examinaiion, I wan certified in 15 1961, in 1961 by the‘American Board of 16 Pathology in the special field of 'Forensic 17. Pathology. : ” .: :. ,: 4; “;y : . ,- ! 18 Going back to'iaur &M&i&&oat~& duties, - E 19 except a'tour of-duty of on& year in : .. : 20 Vietnam as.Com.matiding Officer of the 21 Ninth Medidal Labaratmr$~5X have been in 22 charge of the Wound Balliitics'Pathology 23 Branch of the AFIP since"I#ov&laber, 1960 _ _ 24 and I am still.fn-*charge--of it. Thir .. :,.- branch is part of .the'.division, of which other branches pertaining to other medical-legal areas such as accidents, poisonings, aircraft accidents, ground traffic accidents, et cetera. NW, Doctor, have you had any additional special training or experience in connec- 8 tion with missile-wounds? I have carried out experiments on missile wounds in Washington, D-C., and at m”I Edgewood, D-d-g-e-w-o-o-d, Arsenal, .. * . : I Maryland, on wounda.*. produced by bullets -1.T.'., ., :A : fired by rifles. - .. ,<i Doctor, did you bade any training or experience :*-.y while stationed in Panama, and, if SO, . 16 In March, 1964, wh.ile stationed in Washington, 18 D.C., I was called at ho,me by a military/ :; 1 i\ 1 ,:::. - ! aide of the Deputy Secretary of Difen8ec) i:v9.Z:J ‘.- L.’. ,,,1 (.-.;‘,* ;._ . r,&j;~~?? : _- ’ c+* . who requested that I go to Panama, the '. &e&y> * .: 1. Republic of Panama, on .behalf of the -. United States aa an expert medical witnesr I hadto provide an opinion based on sOlk ' 24 20 autopsy reports written in Spanish, autopsies performed by the Panamanian of January, 1964. I had to state whether or not the wounds of these victims were consistent with the ammunition -- TEIE COURT: 6 We need general qualificatiqns, not special casess. I would prefer you not going into any one special ca8e. - MR. DYMOND: All right, sir,- At this time we submit the Doctor M 6 - duly qualified expert in the field i .:-.-..: : 15 16 17. : .; 18 -., 19 20 21 23 24 Referen& copp, JFK Collection: BS Q Did you have occasion to participate in the 3 autopsy which was performed on the late President John F. Kennedy? A Yes, I did. 6 Q NOW, with whom else did you participate in 7 the performance of this autopsy? 8 A The Pathologist in chaige of the autopsy of 9 president Kennedy was Dr. Humes, r 10 H-u-m-e-s, he called me at home to come -‘r 11 to the Naval Hospital in Bethesda, Maryldn I . 12 and I went there. I found Dr. Humes and *c ' \. J 13 al80 Dr. Bosweii, B-O-s-w-e-l-1, who was : 14 the Chief of Pathology in the same hos- ._ 15. '7. pital. Dr. Humes was the Director of 16 the Laboratory, the three of ua were t 17, pathologists. li ';'; - .. \, : 18 0 NOW, Doctor, are you on'0 of the co-author8 of .'3. ) i:-L i ! 19 the pathology report in connection with t 20 the'autopsy which was performed on our .. .. : .: . 21 &ate, $resident? ', .,G :- - :;.