VOLUME 133 NUMBER 165 1st SESSION 35th PARLIAMENT OFFICIAL REPORT (HANSARD) Monday, March 13, 1995 Speaker: The Honourable Gilbert Parent HOUSE OF COMMONS Monday, March 13, 1995 The House met at 11 a.m. Ontario who told a story of how they have been separated from their grandchildren. They simply asked for a measure that will _______________ safeguard the vital connection and relationship between grand- children and grandparents. Prayers We live in a age in which many people are disconnected. _______________ Many young people, many children have had their roots ripped away from them for one reason or another. The connection to PRIVATE MEMBERS’ BUSINESS grandparents is a very important connective root for these people. [English] This lady said: ‘‘For us it is over three years since we have heard from our only grandchildren’’. I read this letter several DIVORCE ACT days after receiving it. Just as many MPs do, I work on The House resumed from Friday, November 25, consideration correspondence in the evening and I answered this letter quite of the motion that Bill C–232, an act to amend the Divorce Act late at night. This is what I said: ‘‘I am sitting here at 10.25 p.m. (granting of access to, or custody of, a child to a grandparent), miles away from my wife and son in Alberta, my daughter, be read the second time and referred to a committee. son–in–law and only grandson in Saskatchewan and half way around the world from another son and daughter–in–law in The Deputy Speaker: When the matter was previously before Rwanda. When I read your letter I detected the pain you must the House, the hon. member for Elk Island had the floor. He has feel. I cannot imagine the hurt you feel when you cannot talk to, seven minutes left in his intervention. cannot touch, cannot hug and spoil your own grandchildren. My Mr. Ken Epp (Elk Island, Ref.): Mr. Speaker, I am delighted family is so precious to me and I am sure that you feel the same to continue my speech. It is the first time that I have had 108 about yours’’. I really felt the pain that evening because the days to contemplate the next sentence in the middle of a speech. story so touched my heart. I shall carry on. I am not going to waste my time. When we contemplate legislation that will grant grandparents We are dealing with a very important matter. It is very reasonable and fair access to their grandchildren, there can be no important to recognize we are dealing with the lives of real reasonable doubt in the minds of parents or of the courts, if they people. Quite often in this place we can sink into a way of are involved, that there is anything detrimental to the children, thinking and we forget the people behind the rules and laws we but only favourable to the children, we then proceed to provide are passing. this. It is the same when we deal with a budget. The budget affects Many people across the country are watching this on televi- real people. This is another bill that does the same. It is a bill sion right now. Certainly here in the House we have observers that deeply affects the lives of people, grandparents in particular that have been touched by this issue. It is incumbent on us as but also grandchildren. It also affects the parents. legislators to do all we can. (1105 ) I received another letter from this lady after Christmas. She When I was contemplating what to say next, I decided I would said: ‘‘Nothing new has happened regarding news from or about try to put a human face on my remarks. I want to share the our grandchildren. It was our fourth Christmas of not hearing, importance of the legislation before us concerning the rights of despite our sending cards and letters, even by registered mail. grandparents to have input into the lives of their children’s We feel so helpless in all this’’. This is the crux of the matter. children. Nothing is more precious than this. There is a helplessness and nowhere to turn for assistance. I would like to share correspondence I received on this We are not asking for anything in this legislation that will be a subject. I received a very moving letter after I had participated great hardship on anyone. We are asking for legislation that will in the debate last November 25. This letter came from people in grant a point of connection between children and grandparents. 10355 COMMONS DEBATES March 13, 1995 Private Members’ Business I cannot help but relate this to my own situation. I really forms and serve different functions from one country to another cannot tell members how much I really love my little grandson. and within each country. I might as well tell the whole world that he will soon be having a little brother or sister. It is such a tremendously touching This is very important. Changing social and economic condi- experience for us. We are so privileged to have a wonderful, tions are bringing to the fore new issues affecting families, loving relationship between our children, our son–in–law and particularly children. One of the realities that cannot be ignored our grandchild. is that many marriages in Canada now end in divorce. A related fact is that many children are directly affected by these divorces (1110) although it is difficult to determine the exact number because there is no official information about out of court custody I cannot, for the life of me, see why anyone would put a barrier decisions. We know, for example, that in 1990 approximately between children and their grandparents. Therefore we are not 34,000 children were involved in divorce cases in which the dealing here with people who have a normal relationship. That is courts made custody decisions. true for probably 95 per cent of people whose relationships are not torn. As in almost all legislation, we are trying to introduce From a social policy perspective, this means that Canada’s measures that will accommodate those people where a relation- laws, policies and programs should take into account the many ship is broken and there has to be some kind of intervention. diverse needs of families today. More specifically, our laws restricting divorce should reflect our society’s changing needs We are asking all members of the House to support the bill. In and continue to ensure that the best interests of the children are this way people who cannot reach out and touch and hug their met. That is why I am pleased to be given the opportunity to grandchildren will be given at least occasionally the privilege of comment on Bill C–232 which proposes amending the Divorce doing so. We are asking that those parents who would stand Act to promote grandparent access. between their children and the grandparents to carefully think about what they are doing when they introduce these barriers. (1115) Barring a response from parents we need legislation that I want to start off by saying very clearly that I believe the would require them to give to some disinterested party, like a relationship between grandparent and grandchild is something court if necessary, their reasons. If there is a valid reason for very special, especially after the parents divorce. Grandparents maintaining the barrier I am sure that the courts would under- can be an important resource to children. They can offer care and stand. If there is not a valid reason then we believe it is in the support and buffer children from the many changes and stresses best interests of children and grandparents to be able to see each associated with family breakdown. I therefore agree whole- other, to talk to each other, to send and receive letters, to send heartedly with the basic principle that a child’s continued and receive phone calls in order for them to be able to communi- contact with grandparents, indeed with all members of the cate and to build on their relationship. child’s extended family, is something that very often is in the In conclusion, we have so many young people in our society best interests of the child. who are anchorless. They have had so many disruptions in their lives. Nothing is more solid than a familial relationship between I emphasize that the best interests of the child test is a children and parents, between children and grandparents that standard that has come to be accepted both in Canada and will give them, on an ongoing basis, a sense of security and internationally as the appropriate standard to apply with respect belonging. to matters relating to children. It means that laws directly affecting children should focus on the needs and best interests of I urge all members to support the bill. Let us do what is right the child rather than on the rights of adults. for the children of our country. In applying this standard it is important to acknowledge the Ms. Beth Phinney (Hamilton Mountain, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, writings of sociologists and psychiatrists on the subject of the 1994 was declared the International Year of the Family. The effect of divorce on children. Researchers generally agree that theme as defined by the United Nations is Family, Resources the breakdown of the parents’ marriage brings about a major and Responsibilities in a Changing World. crisis in the lives of most children and adolescents.