CANADA House of Commons Debates VOLUME 145 Ï NUMBER 101 Ï 3rd SESSION Ï 40th PARLIAMENT OFFICIAL REPORT (HANSARD) Monday, November 22, 2010 Speaker: The Honourable Peter Milliken CONTENTS (Table of Contents appears at back of this issue.) 6211 HOUSE OF COMMONS Monday, November 22, 2010 The House met at 11 a.m. That begs the question of why this bill is needed. If this office had been created and the Parliamentary Budget Officer had been nominated and functioning, why would this bill be needed? Prayers It took a while to get the office up and running. Many of us had concerns from the beginning as to where this office would be and the independence of the office and the Parliamentary Budget Officer. PRIVATE MEMBERS' BUSINESS If I were to ask Canadians from coast to coast to coast if they Ï (1100) thought the Parliamentary Budget Officer was an independent officer [English] of Parliament, most people would say that makes sense. The nomenclature suggests that the officer would be an officer of STRENGTHENING FISCAL TRANSPARENCY ACT Parliament, but sadly, that is not the case. This bill seeks to ensure Mr. Paul Dewar (Ottawa Centre, NDP) moved that Bill C-572, that it is the case. An Act to amend the Parliament of Canada Act (Parliamentary Budget Officer), be read the second time and referred to a The intent of the bill is to ensure that the Parliamentary Budget committee. Officer is independent. Like other officers of Parliament, the He said: Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my colleague from Windsor Parliamentary Budget Officer would be given a mandate that does —Tecumseh for seconding the bill. not just state that the position is one of an officer, but actually in function the position will be an independent officer of Parliament. In the election campaign of 2005-06, the Conservative Party put This complements the initial initiative of the government to have this forward a number of initiatives on accountability. After that election, office. a legislative committee was struck and Bill C-2 was presented. It was an omnibus bill. There were many different initiatives in it. Our party The bill would take the Parliamentary Budget Officer out of the supported a good lion's share of the initiatives. All parliamentarians scope and ambit of the Library of Parliament and make it a stand- worked very hard on that bill to ensure that the ideas put forward in alone officer similar to the Conflict of Interest and Ethics the election campaign, such as the New Democratic Party's ethics Commissioner. Currently appointment is made by the Governor in package to bring transparency and accountability to Parliament, and Council from a list of three suggestions from the library committee. the initiatives of the Conservative Party, would be put into place. Instead, with this bill, after consultation with leaders of every That would have strengthened oversight in terms of the governing recognized party in the House of Commons and approval of the party. appointment by resolution of Parliament, the Parliamentary Budget Officer would be named. This is exactly the same as how we appoint Part of that was to ensure that we had truth in advertising. Perhaps the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner and other I can quote from the Conservative Party platform of 2006: independent officers of Parliament. Ensure truth in budgeting with a Parliamentary Budget Authority In the spring of 2004, the Liberal government told Canadians that the 2003-04 The bill would include in law the qualifications for the surplus would only be $1.9 billion. In fact, it was $9.1 billion. In 2004-05, the Parliamentary Budget Officer, namely, experience and knowledge Liberals spent about $9 billion at the end of the year to reduce their surplus to only $1.6 billion. of the federal budget process and appropriate educational back- ground, including a graduate degree in economics and/or financing There were differences between the projected surplus and what and accounting. was actually announced by the then Liberal government. Ï (1105) The Conservatives went on in their platform to say that they would create an independent budget office that would have Currently there is no legislated rule on tenure. We put that in the independent overview of the finances of the nation. We supported bill. The bill would set the tenure at seven years, with the possibility that. We thought that was the way to go. We thought it was a of reappointment and the possibility of removal by Governor in progressive thing to do for transparency and accountability in Council. It would also create possibilities in law for interim government. appointments. That is obvious, if there is a need for that. 6212 COMMONS DEBATES November 22, 2010 Private Members' Business The bill states that the Parliamentary Budget Officer would have Members will recall that twice the House of Commons was asked to be independent of any other employment. It would give the by the government to extend Canada's military operations in Parliamentary Budget Officer the rank of a deputy head of a Afghanistan without being provided the estimated costs. I think that government department. Again, this is a rank similar to the Chief was the first project for the PBO. It was only after the PBO Librarian or to the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner. responded to my request and told us the estimates for the mission in Afghanistan that we were actually able to get an idea of how much it The bill would not make any fundamental change to the mandate, was going to cost. but it would qualify that the Parliamentary Budget Officer products should be independent. In other words, the Parliamentary Budget Office cannot become a reproduction service. The office has to I go back to the Conservatives' concern when they were in provide independent analysis. opposition regarding the mission in Afghanistan. They asked four very cogent questions that I think we all should have been asking at With regard to the release of reports, currently there is nothing that time: What is the mandate of this mission? What are we going to guiding the process of releasing the reports. New legislation would be doing? What is the breadth and length of the mission? What is the give the Parliamentary Budget Office the mandate to release its cost? findings and products to all parliamentarians in a way that would promote fiscal transparency. Simply put, I was asking the PBO to give us an estimate of the cost of the war at that time. Also, there would be no changes to rules governing access to information and confidentiality. That is important for obvious Ï (1110) reasons. The bill would give powers similar to other officers of Parliament Also, the PBO has helped us to understand the estimates. The blue when it comes to hiring staff. Again, that is absolutely critical if we book is extremely important. It tells us where the government are going to have an independent lens on the country's finances. intends to spend money. Needless to say, for new members it is a bit overwhelming when they first get the estimates. It is the kitchen As well, the bill would require the Parliamentary Budget Officer table budget that we should all be looking at. It tells us exactly to present an estimate of the office's annual budget to the Speaker, where, by ministry, the money is going to be spent. which would then be sent to Treasury Board for inclusion. This would replace the current structure, where the Library of Parliament decides the Parliamentary Budget Officer's budget. The Parliamentary Budget Officer is mandated to help us with this process. However, he or she needs to be given the independence to I have touched on the history of the PBO. It was created in 2006 do that appropriately so that there is no arbitrary nature in terms of as part of the Federal Accountability Act. The Conservatives had how he or she does the work, such as holding back reports, perhaps, committed to creating the position in their election platform of 2006. or not being given the appropriate requisite funding to do the job. It was in their platform, to ensure truth in budgeting, and that is why we supported it. We believed that was necessary. Passing the estimates is the most important thing we do in this place in terms of the functioning of government. However, and you Instead of creating the independent officer, however, in Parliament probably noted this when you were first elected, Mr. Speaker, the we ended up with an unfortunate circumstance. Again, this is not to speed at which the estimates pass through this place is phenomenal. be hypercritical of the government but to understand that after two years of the PBO in place, there needs to be some changes in terms Ï (1115) of the structure and the function. Instead of situating it where it is now, in the Library of Parliament, the government needs to make Mr. Joe Comartin: Shameful. sure there is true independence. It is a matter of basic accountability. When the government comes Mr. Paul Dewar: Mr. Speaker, it is shameful, as my colleague to the House asking for a change in legislation or the passage of a from Windsor—Tecumseh said. budget bill, MPs should be fully aware of the fiscal implications of the decisions before them. That was exactly the inspiration for this We need to better understand what we are passing. I will not go office and this officer, and that is what we need to make sure through the litany of budgets that have been passed in this place by happens.