Interview “There are no barriers at all in implementing Green Chemistry; all you need to do is to invent it” – Dr John Warner From 4th Dec to 6th Dec’09, India witnessed the first international Industrial Green Chemistry Work- shop (IGCW) in Mumbai. Dr John C Warner, alongwith Prof Paul Anastas, was actively involved with this event and delivered interesting discourses on Green Chemistry in Mumbai for IGCW. Dr Warner is the President and CTO of The Warner Babcock Institute, USA, an independent initia- tive, he launched recently to provide green chemistry technologies for industry. Dr Warner is widely recognized as one of the world’s leading experts in designing of safer products and processes. John received his BS in Chemistry from the University of Massachusetts, Boston and his MS & PhD in Medicinal Chemistry from Princeton University. He then led a research group at the Polaroid Corporation for 9 years before returning to the University of Massachusetts as an academic where he spent 9 years educating the next generation of professionals in green chemistry. He won the 2004 Presidential award in science mentoring amongst numerous other awards he has received. He holds numerous patents for Green Chemistry technologies with applications ranging from elec- tronic and polymeric materials to pharmaceuticals and cosmetics. Chemical Industry Digest interviewed Dr Warner at the sidelines of the IGCW’09 in Mumbai. Dr Warner passionately believes in the application of the 12 principles of Green Chemistry for process and product development which he says will lead to environmentally sustainable products and processes with far improved per- formance and improved costs. Green chemistry is good chemistry; its safer chem- istry and will create a chemical industry with a benign, friendly public face. Read excerpts from this interview. Chemical Industry Digest (CID): What would drive green chemistry practices in industry? Would it be intrinsi- cally driven or through extrinsic pressures like regula- tions? Dr John Warner (JW): I think both intrinsic and extrin- sic factors will contribute. Regulatory pressures are only going to increase in the long term. The opportu- nity and advantage will be for industries to come up with greener processes through innovation and inven- tion before regulatory pressures increase. Those com- 78 Chemical Industry Digest. Annual-January 2010 CMYK Interview who said that if you make a better rat trap The opportunity and advantage will be for industries to people will beat a path to your door, irrespec- come“ up with greener processes through innovation and tive of where you are. The only barrier to green invention before regulatory pressures increase. Those com- chemistry is that it has to be invented. panies who do so will be far ahead of the others in the mar- ket place as they will have the first mover advantage. CID: What about the process of doing R&D? Do we need to change the methodology of re- ” search? Does this get impacted by the prin- panies who do so will be far ahead of the others in ciples of green chemistry ? the market place as they will have the first mover ad- JW: vantage. Discovery research, particularly in fine chemicals and pharmaceuticals, is based on the assumption that most of the examples to be tested will not succeed. So CID: If you look at the research that is going on for greener processes, are we looking at more of chemis- we have a mindset to accept that kind of wastefulness try or engineering or both? in research, because of which we are not critical on research methodologies. I think the intelligent ap- JW: The whole point is that its impossible to separate proach is to change our mindset into assuming that chemistry and engineering. Greener processes need an we anticipate success the first time we make it – in entire systems approach in R&D and manufacturing. which case we will make attempts to do it right the You can’t do good chemistry without good engineer- first time. I believe it is important to assume that ev- ing and vice versa. It could vary depending on the spe- erything we do in research is manufacturable one day. cific situation: in some cases more chemistry may be This will make researchers more innovative and prac- needed and less of engineering and in other cases tical. This is the faster way to the market. I believe that more of engineering and less of chemistry. the principles of green chemistry will accelerate re- search. CID: Would you suggest that a step by step approach is taken where, in the first instance, reexamine existing CID: Experts like you are advocating understanding products and processes and rework them based on chemical phenomena at the molecular level which principles of green chemistry and engineering and needs an indepth understanding of thermodynamics then get into absolutely new products and processes? and physical chemistry areas, normally shunned by chemists. JW: Both are required based on what is viable and fea- sible. What I have seen is that many a times making JW: This is quite true and perhaps this has to do with changes in existing products and processes is more how chemistry is taught. In my research laboratory difficult and costly than going in for entirely new. In- even though I am an out and out synthetic organic troducing a new product based on green principles chemist, the first thing I do is to make phase diagrams. will be cost beneficial and more of a success in the It is this compartmentalization into organic chem- market place. However there are times when it makes istry, physical chemistry, analytical, engineering etc sense to redo an existing product. which is inhibiting – and also creating the need for green chemistry. We need to look at chemistry, holisti- CID: From your experience in the US what are the bar- cally. riers in implementing green chemistry? JW: I do not believe that there are any barriers at all CID: From our experience in India there are always con- in implementing green chemistry. Processes that are flicting perspectives between chemists and chemical environmentally benign will be based on technologies engineers which affect the outcome of research. How that are superior to what are existing. They will be cost can this be resolved? competitive too. People will implement whatever In my philosophy there is no difference between chemistry and chemical en- is superior and better, technology wise and cost “gineering or between chemists and chemical engineers. Some say that one syn- wise. I will quote the fa- thesizes a molecule while the other formulates a product. These are artificial com- mous American author partmentalization created by humans. We need to break down these barriers.” Chemical Industry Digest. Annual-January 2010 79 CMYK Interview JW: In my philosophy there is no difference between chemists and engineers start working, utilizing green chemistry and chemical engineering or between chem- chemistry and green engineering principles from the ists and chemical engineers. Some say that one syn- very beginning. Industry won’t have to retrain them. thesizes a molecule while the other formulates a prod- Step two is to provide professional training in green uct. These are artificial compartmentalization created practices to the existing engineers and scientists al- by humans. We need to break down these barriers. ready in industry. In this respect workshops like the While it may be a good idea for chemists to learn some recently concluded IGCW will go along way in dis- chemical engineering and vice versa, due to the vast- seminating knowledge on green chemistry. Industry ness of knowledge it will be difficult for anyone to and professional organizations should also get in- learn everything. So the differences in learning and volved and hold workshops at local levels at regular functions should not lead to conflicts. and more frequent intervals. Internal and external col- At the very beginning of a project, chemists and en- laborations are equally important. gineers need to speak to each other and keep up the CID: What should government and regulatory authori- communication to ensure that the innovation or in- ties do to promote green chemistry? vention is proceeding in the right direction. Organisations should ensure that this happens for JW: I don’t foresee any role for regulatory bodies since success. Chemists and chemical engineers should be green chemistry is non-regulatory. Government agen- required to collaborate during their educational ca- cies can provide grants, incentives, identify and pro- reers so that they learn to understand and communi- mote research projects. They can mandate that educa- cate with each other from the very beginning. tional courses should teach toxicology and green chemistry among other things. CID: How can we in India fast forward green chemis- try practices in industry? One point about regulatory bodies is in terms of what they should not do. Regulatory bodies are more JW: Step one is to ensure that academic organizations interested in maintaining the status quo and this ac- initiate green chemistry and teach the principles and cidentally inhibits people coming up with new chem- practices to students so that the next generation of Processes that are environmentally benign will be based “on technologies that are superior to what are existing. They will be cost competitive too. People will implement whatever is superior and better, technology wise and cost wise. ” 80 Chemical Industry Digest. Annual-January 2010 CMYK Interview istries. They also make it unnecessarily more expen- CID: What about the US? Would the US be following sive to introduce new materials even when its envi- on the same lines, adopt REACH or something simi- ronmentally benign. lar? CID: What do you expect from the media? JW: Yes, I think the US will also adopt something simi- JW: It is through the media that we communicate with lar to the REACH once we sort out the aspect of eco- the general public.