Vol. 225 Monday, No. 1 15 July 2013 DÍOSPÓIREACHTAÍ PARLAIMINTE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES SEANAD ÉIREANN TUAIRISC OIFIGIÚIL—Neamhcheartaithe (OFFICIAL REPORT—Unrevised) Business of Seanad 2 Order of Business 2 Visit of El Salvador Delegation 5 Order of Business (Resumed) 5 Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Second Stage 27 Adjournment Matters ����������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������74 15/07/2013YY00775Medical Indemnity Cover ���������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������75 15/07/2013ZZ00200Direct Provision System 76 SEANAD ÉIREANN Dé Luain, 15 Iúil 2013 Monday, 15 July 2013 Chuaigh an Cathaoirleach i gceannas ar 230 pm Machnamh agus Paidir. Reflection and Prayer. Business of Seanad 15/07/2013B00200An Cathaoirleach: I have received notice from Senator Colm Burke that, on the motion for the Adjournment of the House today, he proposes to raise the following matter: The need for the Minister for Health to put in place legislation to make it compulsory for all medical practitioners to have professional indemnity insurance I have also received notice from Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh of the following matter: Go dtabharfaidh an tAire Dlí agus Comhionannas míniú maidir leis na h-íocaíochtaí a dhéanann an Roinn sin le daoine atá ag fanacht sa chóras cóireáil dhíreach, cén ollmhéid a íoctar ar son gach duine aonair, cé mhéad a fhaigheann an duine sin isteach ina lámh, céard a íoctar le triú páirtithe eile, cé hiad sin agus cén bunus dlíthiúil atá leis na h-íocaíochtaí sin I regard the matters raised by the Senators as suitable for discussion on the Adjournment and they will be taken at the conclusion of business Order of Business 15/07/2013C00200Senator Maurice Cummins: The Order of Business is No 1, Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013 - Second Stage, to be taken at the conclusion of the Order of Business and adjourn not later than 8 pm, with the contributions of all Senators not to exceed ten minutes 15/07/2013C00300Senator Rónán Mullen: On a point of order, I do not believe the Leader is in order in specifying the time permitted for each speech under Standing Orders I raise this point having asked last week that we have the same amount of time per speaker on Second Stage as was al- lowed in the Dáil, which I believe was 20 minutes Like others here, I do not intend to engage in any long-winded contributions or filibustering on the Bill, but it appears----- 2 15 July 2013 15/07/2013C00400An Cathaoirleach: It is a matter for the Leader to propose and the House to decide 15/07/2013C00500Senator Rónán Mullen: I might ask for your ruling on this issue, a Chathaoirligh The relevant Standing Order is Standing Order 16 which establishes the right of the Leader to pro- pose, at the commencement of public business, the business for each sitting day and the order in which it shall be taken It is true that in the Dáil the Taoiseach may propose speaking time limits, but the Leader does not have the authority to do so While the practice may have devel- oped that the House acquiesces in that regard, it is not in order 15/07/2013C00600An Cathaoirleach: There is a long-standing precedent in the House that the Leader pro- poses the Order of Business and the arrangements to be made which are agreed to and adopted by the House 15/07/2013C00700Senator Rónán Mullen: It is not in Standing Orders 15/07/2013C00800An Cathaoirleach: It does not have to be There is a long-standing precedent 15/07/2013C00900Senator Rónán Mullen: I believe you are referring to----- 15/07/2013C01000An Cathaoirleach: I am ruling on this issue now The Leader is proposing time limits and it is up to the House to agree and decide on the matter 15/07/2013C01100Senator Rónán Mullen: The Leader ought to table a formal motion on the Order Paper to be taken in the normal way----- 15/07/2013C01200An Cathaoirleach: As I explained to the Senator, there is a long-standing precedent in the House 15/07/2013C01300Senator Rónán Mullen: I ask you, out of respect for the Standing Orders of this House, to take time to consider this matter, rather than just rule off the cuff 15/07/2013C01400An Cathaoirleach: I have to go on precedent also There is a long-standing precedent in the House that the Leader proposes time limits which are agreed to It is up to the House to decide It may not agree with what the Leader is proposing, but that is a matter for it The Leader is proposing certain time limits for certain debates It is up to the House to decide----- 15/07/2013C01500Senator Rónán Mullen: The Leader is not the Taoiseach Standing Orders of the Dáil specifically provide that the Taoiseach may do so, but our Standing Orders do not provide for the Leader to do so How can the Cathaoirleach rely on mere custom and practice? Is that not bringing our Standing Orders into disrepute and showing them disrespect? 15/07/2013C01600An Cathaoirleach: I am not bringing Standing Orders into disrepute I am ruling in accor- dance with long-standing precedent The Leader has made a proposal and it is up to the House to decide on it 15/07/2013C01700Senator Rónán Mullen: In that case, I propose to seek to amend the Order of Business 15/07/2013C01800An Cathaoirleach: I will be calling the Senator later 15/07/2013C01900Senator Darragh O’Brien: It is welcome that the Leader has set a time limit on the debate on Second Stage in order to ensure it concludes at a specific time and will resume tomorrow. I have a degree of sympathy for Senator Rónán Mullen on the amount of time given per speaker on Second Stage, but that issue could be dealt with by way of an amendment to the Order of 3 Seanad Éireann Business if the Senator wishes to table one On behalf of the Fianna Fáil group, I welcome to the Chamber the ambassador of El Sal- vador, Mr Werner Matías Romero, who is very welcome We look forward to working with him As the President is due to visit El Salvador later in the year, it is a pleasure to have the ambassador here today On successive days in the past three weeks I have asked for time to be set aside to debate the new statutory code of conduct on mortgage arrears I will again table an amendment today that one hour be set aside for the Minister for Finance to come to the House to discuss the new code I have stated time and again that the situation has now reached crisis point One in four mortgages are either in arrears or have been restructured My request to the Leader relates to the Central Bank pilot scheme to help debtors Only three weeks ago the Money Advice and Budgeting Service, MABS, had agreed to work with the Central Bank on the pilot scheme I note from media reports yesterday and today that MABS has pulled out of the scheme The pilot scheme was to deal with 750 households in difficulty with both private and mortgage debt. It is concerning that MABS has now pulled out of the scheme I understand the Central Bank is now looking for other interested bodies, specifically an English debt management agency, to participate I do not believe this is the way a pilot scheme should be run Certainly, I am of the view that MABS has the expertise, experience and knowledge to work on the scheme The Leader may not have the answer here this afternoon but what I really want to know is why MABS has decided to pull out of the scheme Has the Minister for Finance been advised by the Central Bank on the reason the Money Advice and Budgeting Service has withdrawn from the pilot scheme? I am asking because if it is down to resources with MABS or the composition of the pilot scheme, then it is concerning There may be another reason but either way we are entitled to know Effectively, this means the pilot scheme on debt relief and working through debt man- agement plans for citizens has now stalled The pilot scheme has stalled and is not running now We have not been allowed to debate the code of conduct on mortgage arrears, which is open season on those in mortgage arrears Many Members on the Government side share my con- cerns All I am asking for, in the time we have left in this session, is to set aside one hour for the Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, to come to the House Perhaps he could set me right about why I should support the new code of conduct on mortgage arrears and maybe he could 15/07/2013D00200An Cathaoirleach: Please conclude 15/07/2013D00300Senator Darragh O’Brien: I will conclude The fact that we are not even allowed to de- bate it and that the Minister will not come to the House to debate it is most concerning Every day this week and until next week, as I did last week and the week before, I intend to table amendments to the Order of Business in this regard I realise the Leader is trying his best I appreciate that and I am not trying to be difficult, but this is too important. The House should not rise without a debate or discussion on the new code of conduct on mortgage arrears I thank you for your indulgence, A Chathaoirligh 15/07/2013D00400An Cathaoirleach: Will you clarify your position in respect of the amendment to the Order of Business? 15/07/2013D00500Senator Darragh O’Brien: The