First Session - Thirty-Ninth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable George Hickes Speaker Vol. LIX No. 30B – 1:30 p.m., Thursday, November 1, 2007 MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Ninth Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALLAN, Nancy, Hon. St. Vital N.D.P. ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley N.D.P. ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thompson N.D.P. BJORNSON, Peter, Hon. Gimli N.D.P. BLADY, Sharon Kirkfield Park N.D.P. BOROTSIK, Rick Brandon West P.C. BRAUN, Erna Rossmere N.D.P. BRICK, Marilyn St. Norbert N.D.P. BRIESE, Stuart Ste. Rose P.C. CALDWELL, Drew Brandon East N.D.P. CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan N.D.P. CULLEN, Cliff Turtle Mountain P.C. DERKACH, Leonard Russell P.C. DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk N.D.P. DOER, Gary, Hon. Concordia N.D.P. DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood P.C. DYCK, Peter Pembina P.C. EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside P.C. FAURSCHOU, David Portage la Prairie P.C. GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach P.C. GRAYDON, Cliff Emerson P.C. HAWRANIK, Gerald Lac du Bonnet P.C. HICKES, George, Hon. Point Douglas N.D.P. HOWARD, Jennifer Fort Rouge N.D.P. IRVIN-ROSS, Kerri, Hon. Fort Garry N.D.P. JENNISSEN, Gerard Flin Flon N.D.P. JHA, Bidhu Radisson N.D.P. KORZENIOWSKI, Bonnie St. James N.D.P. LAMOUREUX, Kevin Inkster Lib. LATHLIN, Oscar, Hon. The Pas N.D.P. LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. La Verendrye N.D.P. MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St. Johns N.D.P. MAGUIRE, Larry Arthur-Virden P.C. MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood N.D.P. MARCELINO, Flor Wellington N.D.P. MARTINDALE, Doug Burrows N.D.P. McFADYEN, Hugh Fort Whyte P.C. McGIFFORD, Diane, Hon. Lord Roberts N.D.P. MELNICK, Christine, Hon. Riel N.D.P. MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East P.C. NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom Interlake N.D.P. OSWALD, Theresa, Hon. Seine River N.D.P. PEDERSEN, Blaine Carman P.C. REID, Daryl Transcona N.D.P. ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Rupertsland N.D.P. RONDEAU, Jim, Hon. Assiniboia N.D.P. ROWAT, Leanne Minnedosa P.C. SARAN, Mohinder The Maples N.D.P. SCHULER, Ron Springfield P.C. SELBY, Erin Southdale N.D.P. SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St. Boniface N.D.P. STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo P.C. STRUTHERS, Stan, Hon. Dauphin-Roblin N.D.P. SWAN, Andrew Minto N.D.P. TAILLIEU, Mavis Morris P.C. WOWCHUK, Rosann, Hon. Swan River N.D.P. 1869 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Thursday, November 1, 2007 The House met at 1:30 p.m. a series of questions in regard to this issue. In the question I asked the Premier–and it's a fairly precise ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS question. My question to the Premier is: "Did you provide a copy of the letter or show it to anyone else MATTER OF PRIVILEGE other than Elections Manitoba?" Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Mr. Speaker, I wish to rise on a matter of privilege. Mr. Speaker, this is the letter that was given to me that I ultimately was able to table inside this Mr. Speaker: Okay, the honourable Member for Chamber, and I was being told at the time that the Inkster on a matter of privilege. Premier did not give it directly to Elections Mr. Lamoureux: Mr. Speaker, you have indicated Manitoba. Yet the Premier, and you could read the in rulings in the past that intentionally misleading answer: ". I have acted always consistent with the this House is very difficult, at the best of times, to be laws of Manitoba in sending anything, if it is alleged, able to clearly prove and establish. You have properly to Elections Manitoba." indicated how important it is that we substantiate it with facts and realize the importance in terms of how Then you can go on to December 5 where, once intentionally misleading the House is to the again, I'm trying to seek clarification on what I detriment of MLAs to be able to perform their duties. believe is a very important issue, and I quote. The question I asked was: "I ask the Premier again and In fact, under Marleau and Montpetit, and I will he tell this Chamber: Did he provide a copy of quote from, I believe it's page 86, Mr. Speaker, in that letter or share that letter with anyone else other ruling on a question of privilege, Speaker Fraser than Elections Manitoba? Mr. Speaker, that is a very stated: "The privileges of a Member are violated by simple question. Can we get an answer, a direct any action which might impede him or her in the answer, from this Premier?" fulfillment of his or her duties and functions." This is the issue that ultimately had me leaving Mr. Speaker, I'm going to provide you a copy of the Chamber at your request, Mr. Speaker, as you'll Hansard. I'll get maybe one of the pages to bring it recall back in December. over to you as I go specifically, and it won't take What was the government's response? I think long for me to go through this, the first time I raised this is the fourth or fifth–this is now the Minister of the issue in regard to what was happening in The Justice, or the Government House Leader, Maples was back on November 22 of 2006. I had responding to my question. I think this is the fourth posed the question because it was important to me in or fifth question the member's asked on this issue. terms of the allegations that were being raised to the Premier (Mr. Doer). It's an important issue because there's a The Premier has gone out of his way to give the difference if you get a letter with serious allegations impression to this Legislature, and in fact to all about a staffperson and you hand it directly to Manitobans, that he advanced everything directly to Elections Manitoba, which gives a nice positive Elections Manitoba and that's an important point media spin to the public, Mr. Speaker, as opposed to now. I'll expand on why right away. giving it to some party hack within the political party, or I should say, a staffperson within the party. I quote November 22 from Hansard 2006, the It was a very important point at the time, and I was Premier, in response to my question: "Mr. Speaker, pushing and pushing the best I could in terms of any innuendo or any issue of allegations that deals resolving that. with any breach of The Elections Act, I refer immediately to Elections Manitoba." Well, Mr. Speaker, you know, during the Estimates, on September 25, the Premier (Mr. Doer) Mr. Speaker, if you go to the next page, you will said, and I quote, and this is in response to an see on December 4, again a question, and I had asked opposition member's question. He says, and I quote: 1870 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA November 1, 2007 "Having said that, Madam Chair, when the letter statements as well about the outcome of what would came to me, I immediately had it sent to happen in this matter with the Elections Manitoba. I Elections Manitoba through the provincial secretary won't reference this in detail. It is a matter of of our party. I acted instantly." privilege, but certainly, I know the Member for Inkster is quite anxious to perhaps restate his original Mr. Speaker, the Premier did seriously attempt promise in terms of this matter. to give this Chamber the impression that he, himself, gave it to Elections Manitoba. In Hansard he is now But you know, Mr. Speaker, it has been dealt saying that he didn't give it directly to Elections with by Elections Manitoba. For the Member for Manitoba. He gave it to Wayne Copeland. There's a Inkster to continue to suggest in this House that the huge difference. We don't know how long Wayne Premier or anyone has done anything other than, in would have sat on it or what the intentions of–was it this case, refer the matter to the appropriate Wayne's idea to hand it over to Elections Manitoba? authority, I think is not only not a matter of privilege, We don't have any idea what took place there. What but even in debate in this House where there is a fair we do know is that the Premier made it very, very amount of leeway in what is considered–you know, clear and I asked very specific questions: Did he the fact that we take any member of the Legislature's provide a copy of it to anyone? Did he hand it word. I think even there it would be a stretch for the directly to Elections Manitoba? He intentionally Member for Inkster, in this particular case, to be misled this House by not telling us back then that he continuing this line of argument. had, in fact, not given it directly to Elections Manitoba. He gave it to the party secretary of the * (13:40) New Democratic Party, and there is a difference. This is a dispute over the facts, Mr. Speaker, but Mr. Speaker, I believe that the Premier owes this the real dispute here is only on behalf of the Member Chamber an apology for intentionally misleading this for Inkster (Mr. Lamoureux) because the facts are, House. I would conclude by moving a motion that I this matter has been dealt with by Elections would move, seconded by the Member for River Manitoba, and the member can distribute as many Heights (Mr.