CANADA House of Commons Debates VOLUME 140 Ï NUMBER 019 Ï 1st SESSION Ï 38th PARLIAMENT OFFICIAL REPORT (HANSARD) Monday, November 1, 2004 Speaker: The Honourable Peter Milliken CONTENTS (Table of Contents appears at back of this issue.) All parliamentary publications are available on the ``Parliamentary Internet Parlementaire´´ at the following address: http://www.parl.gc.ca 979 HOUSE OF COMMONS Monday, November 1, 2004 The House met at 11 a.m. agreement. It fails to do its most basic job, which is to achieve a final agreement. Prayers The fundamental goal of any agreement should be that it has some finality. In negotiating a treaty settlement and a land claims and self- GOVERNMENT ORDERS government settlement, what benefit could it be to Canada to have Ï (1100) open-ended agreements in force that could be reopened at any time? [English] In this case, in the event that another Northwest Territories first nation negotiated an agreement with the federal government that was TLICHO LAND CLAIMS AND SELF-GOVERNMENT ACT seen by the Tlicho band to be better than the one it signed, under the terms of this agreement it could simply reopen negotiations. That is The House resumed from October 29 consideration of the motion not the way to have a good agreement that would promote the unity that Bill C-14, an act to give effect to a land claims and self- and bonding of our country. An agreement must contain terms that government agreement among the Tlicho, the Government of the are good for everyone involved in the agreement, not just the Tlicho Northwest Territories and the Government of Canada, to make First Nation, but indeed all the people of Canada. related amendments to the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act and to make consequential amendments to other acts, be read the second time and referred to a committee. Mr. Richard Harris (Cariboo—Prince George, CPC): Mr. We do not want to carry on a history that has been carried on by Speaker, I am pleased to speak to Bill C-14, the Tlicho act, which the Liberal government where it introduces legislation that does would give the force of law to an agreement between the federal more to foster divisions in the country than to promote unity. That is government, the Northwest Territories government and the Tlicho what the Liberal government has been doing for decades. It is First Nation that was signed on August 25, 2003. astounding when we hear the Liberal members talk about the mosaic of Canada and how we need to ensure that the laws we introduce are The agreement gives the Tlicho First Nation ownership of fair to everybody so that we can stand as a strong united government. approximately 39,000 square kilometres between Great Slave Lake and the Great Bear Lake and participatory-regulatory authority over even a larger area. The Liberal government today and previous Liberal governments The agreement is unique in that it involves both a land claims have introduced legislation again and again that promotes and fosters settlement and a self-government agreement. It creates a precedent division, more than it tries to unify the country. They should be for the approximately 600 first nations that may seek similar ashamed of their record. This is just another example. provisions in their own agreements. Every day in our opening prayers we pray that this Parliament will Ï (1105) be given the power and wisdom to make good laws and wise decisions. That is what we all want in the House. That is what we want for our country and for people. Hon. Wayne Easter: That is not correct. You know better than While the Conservative Party of Canada supports the settlement of that. the Tlicho land claims and a self-government agreement, we have concerns about five issues in the agreement. I go back to the ability of Parliament to make good laws and wise decisions. I want to go over the five issues in Bill C-14 that we find of particular concern. Mr. Richard Harris: The members do not like to hear the truth. The history of Liberal legislation over the past several decades First, it is not a final agreement. It contains a clause to reopen shows very clearly the fostering of divisions by the government and negotiations if another Northwest Territories aboriginal group previous Liberal governments. They do not like it but they cannot negotiates terms that are attractive to the Tlicho in a future deny it. 980 COMMONS DEBATES November 1, 2004 Government Orders What is astounding is that Bill C-14 appears to recognize the right which in some respects, and even one is too many, would allow the of the Tlicho First Nation to enter into international agreements and, formation of another country or nation within the Canada. It would in some cases, to stand in the way of Canada entering into have powers that would supersede the powers of the Government of international agreements. The agreement states that it does not limit Canada, the Constitution of Canada and the Charter of Rights and the authority of the Tlicho to enter into international, national, Freedoms. We are very dangerously close in the agreement to interprovincial and interterritorial agreements. Further, it requires creating a country within a country as we have been dangerously that the Government of Canada consult with the Tlicho First Nation close on previous agreements. before Canada enters into an international agreement that may affect the right of the Tlicho government, the Tlicho First Nation or Tlicho citizens. That is very broad and disturbing language and puts a The Liberals have talked about wanting to unite and have a unified remarkable restriction on the constitutionality reserved for a federal Canada. If there is any doubt they have said that, one only has to government. look at their attempts in the sponsorship issues going on right now. One only has to see how much money they spent, in many cases We in the Conservative Party believe that the broad language of under suspicion, but that is another story. They talked about how the agreement could impede the power of the federal government to important it was to have a total Canada, including Quebec and enter into international agreements and agreements with the including every people in this country, no matter from where they provinces in the event that the Tlicho First Nation were to believe came, Canadian citizens or landed immigrants, a Canada that was that in some way it could affect its nation or one of its citizens. unified. We are in danger once again, as we have been on past We do not need agreements in this country that could be tied up in agreements dealing with first nations. The terms of the agreements court challenges on an endless basis, which is why we must be very gave rise to fear that we could be creating a country within a country, clear and concise with the language we use. We must do our best to enclaves within a country, apartheid, a partition, because of the lack ensure that words like “may, should, could, possibly, perhaps” or of common sense and the use of broad language in the agreements “maybe” cannot be applied to the language of the agreement and that we have entered into. cause challenges to it. Our obligation to the people of Canada is to ensure that every piece of legislation or agreement that we enter into with the provinces, the first nations or any other peoples or territories When I believe a divisive type of legislation is being applied to do not use terms that cause doubt about the agreement that may lead people of the country, I am very happy to say that I have had the to challenges on and on in the years to come. opportunity to speak against it. This is another example to which I am proud to speak. The Conservative Party of Canada looks for agreements that have distinct language and very clear terms that should not be able to be challenged because of broad language that may cause people to The agreement is jurisdictionally confusing as well. I just talked believe they can interpret the language for their own terms. We have about this. The agreement describes three different hierarchies to all the abilities to ensure that agreements are safe and sound and determine which legislation is paramount in the event of conflict: the have safety nets within them for all people of Canada. federal legislation, the territorial legislation, Tlicho laws or the The electoral system within this agreement causes us great agreement. It is not clear that the Tlicho citizens will have the concern. People living in a new Tlicho First Nation government, benefits of protection under Canada's Charter of Rights and living within those territories and under that jurisdiction, while they Freedoms in the even of conflict with the Tlicho constitution. should still be under the jurisdiction of Canada as a whole, because all of the territories, all of the provinces and all of the first nations in our country are all part of Canada, they all must be covered and It just amazes me how the government could allow such open- protected under the Constitution of Canada and under the Charter of ended language in such an important document. We are trying to Rights and Freedoms of Canada. create a self-governing environment for the Tlicho nation, one that will give it the confidence that it can do some long terms planning (1110) Ï and one that will give Canadians confidence that the issue will now It appears to us that this agreement would create what could be be settled.