F40 fair funding briefing for MPs - Committee Room 18, Houses of Parliament Tuesday 14 July 2015 1. Attendance F40: Cllr Ivan Ould (Chair), Graham Stuart MP (Vice Chair), Margaret Judd (Executive Ctte Member) and Doug Allan (Secretary). MPs: It proved extremely difficult to register the presence of all MPs and Parliamentary assistants in attendance. The following list is believed to be correct, but it is possible one or two names are missing: Graham Stuart (C, Beverley and Holderness); Julian Knight (C Solihull); Alex Chalk (C, Cheltenham); Helen Whately (C, Faversham); Ellasaid Woodhouse (representing Mark Field, C, Wyre Forest); Anne Marie Morris (C, Newton Abbot); Tom Baycock (assistant to Anne Marie Morris); John Howell (C, Henley); Peter Heaton Jones (C, North Devon); Heidi Allen (C, South Cambs); David Warburton (C, Somerton and Frome); Richard Drax (C, South Dorset); Owen Paterson (C, North Shropshire); Simon Hoare (C, North Dorset); Marcus Fysh (C, Yeovil); Jonathan Djanogly (C, Huntingdon); David Tredinnick (C, Bosworth); Josh Boughton (representing Philip Dunne, C, Ludlow); Andrew Bingham (C, High Peak); Lucy Frazer (C, South East Cambs); Andrew Griffiths (C, Burton); Aaron Cohen-Gold (representing Daniel Zeichner, Lab, Cambridge); Representative of David Davis (C, Haltemprice); Michael Tomlinson (C, Mid Dorset); John Redwood (C, Wokingham); Sir Peter Bottomley (C, Worthing West); Jeremy Quin (C, Horsham); Nigel Huddleston (C, Mid Worcestershire); Steve Brine (C, Winchester); Claire Perry (C, Devizes); Anne Marie Robertson (representing Laurence Robertson, C, Tewkesbury); Ryan Baldry (representing David Mackintosh, C, Northampton South); Rishi Sunak (C, Richmond Yorkshire); Kevin Hollinrake (C, Thirsk and Malton); Gavin Williamson (C, South Staffordshire); Mary Robinson (C, Cheadle); Sarah Wollaston (C, Totnes); Caroline Ansell (C, Eastbourne); Katherine Moor (representing Robin Walker, C, Worcester); Suella Fernandes (C, Fareham); Emily Knight (representing Anne Marie Trevelyan (C, Berwick upon Tweed); Andrew Knight (representing Sir Nicholas Soames (C, Mid Sussex); Tommy Purkiss (representing Fiona Bruce (C, Congleton); Richard Graham (C, Gloucester); James Cartlidge (C, South Sussex); John Penrose (C, Weston Super Mare); Catharine Gammie (representing Victoria Prentis, C, Banbury); Guy Opperman (C, Hexham); Sam Gyimah (C, East Surrey – and Parliamentary Under Secretary for Education and Childcare); Representatives of Sajid Javid (C, Bromsgrove); Sir Bill Cash (C, Stone); Julian Sturdy (C, York Outer); Neil Carmichael (C, Stroud); Ben Bradshaw (Lab, Exeter); Representatives of Julian Smith (C, Skipton and Ripon); Representatives of Nicola Blackwood (C, Oxford West and Abingdon); Representatives of Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (C, The Cotswolds); Representatives of Jo Churchill (C, Bury St Edmunds); Representatives of John Glen (C, Salisbury); Nick Herbert (C, Arundel and South Downs); Neil Parish (C, Tiverton and Honiton); Jesse Norman (C, Hereford and South Herefordshire) Apologies: Ben Gummer (C, Ipswich); Andrew Bridgen (C, North West Leicestershire); Helen Grant (C, Maidstone); Sir Edward Garnier (C, Market Harborough); Peter Aldous (C, Waveney); Andrew Smith (Lab, Oxford East); Michelle Donelan (C, Chippenham); Alberto Costa (C, Blaby); Sheryll Murray (C, Cornwall SE) 2. Welcome and Introduction - Graham Stuart MP GS welcomed everyone and thanked them for coming to this special briefing on school funding. It is pleasing to see so many Members willing to support fair funding. This is a crucial time for the campaign and practical assistance from all MPs representing the poorest LA areas will be important. We had an interim success when the government agreed to provide extra funding of £390m in 2015-16, a move that gave additional resources to many, but not all, f40 member authorities. That was a down payment. We queried the calculation for allocating that extra funding – it was only referenced against the Schools Block – and we continue to have reservations about that. There were several important commitments to fair funding in the Conservative election manifesto and we now look for delivery on those promises. The PM at a recent PMQs indicated that the £390m will be baselined in future year’s budgets, so our remaining focus must be on a new and fairer national funding formula. He particularly welcomed the attendance of Education Minister Sam Gyimah MP, who had recently hosted a meeting with an f40 delegation. His presence confirms the government is taking this matter seriously. He pointed out that 1 there was a pack of information available for each Member present, containing the latest f40 Briefing Paper, a copy of today’s presentation, action points for MPs to follow up on and a petition and draft letters for use in constituencies. These, together with a letter to the PM that all f40 MPs will be asked to sign, will be circulated later in electronic format. Finally he indicated that he would very soon be seeking a Back Bench debate on fair funding and asked all MPs present to talk up fair funding at every opportunity 3. Foreword by Cllr Ivan Ould IO pointed out that as Lead Member for Children’s Services in Leicestershire, he had been involved in the f40 campaign since 1998 – that’s 17 years, but the campaign has actually been underway for 19 years in total. There had initially been few successes but he was confident that recent events suggested the campaign was finally making headway. F40 welcomed the £390m – though it had serious reservations about the methodology – and also welcomed manifesto commitments for change. He pointed out that f40 has never thumped the table, preferring reasoned argument, total commitment and determination. He thought that approach had been the right one and now looked forward to the delivery of a new allocation arrangement that will make all the hard work worthwhile. 4. Presentation by Margaret Judd MJ, who is a member of f40’s Finance Managers Research Team undertaking the work on the group’s own new formula proposals, gave a presentation of the issues and proposals. The presentation attached to this note of the meeting. 5. Discussion Jesse Norman (Hereford & South Herefordshire) opened the discussion. He thanked MJ for the excellent presentation. He said he is concerned about the on-costs that are huge and hitting schools very hard; the inadequate funding available for transport in rural areas and the funding crisis facing 6th Forms. On the general theme of fair funding he said his patience is rapidly running out and he wants to see urgent action now. Rishi Sunak (C, Richmond Yorkshire) asked if the figures mentioned in the presentation include the Pupil Premium? MJ said they do not. F40 would probably prefer PP to be integrated with the main funding stream, but that the suggestion had always been rejected under the Coalition. Richard Graham (C, Gloucester) said he was interested in the reference MJ made to business rates differentials, suggesting the situation is very curious and something that should easily be easily resolvable by the government. John Howell (C, Henley) indicated that he had recently met Secondary Heads in his constituency and was struck by many concerns about funding, but particularly with high on-costs and potential threats to the curriculum due to cuts. Neil Parish (C. Tiverton & Honiton) wanted to also state that he is running out of patience and wants to see urgent action to correct the historic injustice of the funding formula. He said it cannot go on any longer and we require immediate action on the commitments given. Neil Carmichael (C. Stroud) referred to a recent National Audit Office report that called for a fairer funding formula for schools and indicated the impact of Pupil Premium had not been what had been anticipated. He also mentioned the forthcoming enquiry to be launched by the Education Select Committee and expressed the hope that it would also support fair funding. David Tredinnick (C.Boswoth) expressed the hope that a new national funding formula would pass the funding via local authorities, so that there is some discretion in the system, rather than direct to schools. Laurence Robertson (C. Tewkebury) reiterated that the case for change is clear and that the time to make it is now! Nick Herbert (C. Arundel and South Downs) said that funding of schools in his constituency in West Sussex is “on the floor” and the poor funding exacerbates the problem. There may be difficulties in moving to a new fairer funding system but they have to be faced. The unfairness is too glaring. He suggested that the MPs from poorly funded authorities need to start “hunting in a pack”. 2 Ivan Ould (Chair of f40) said that f40 has been successful in recruiting new members in recent months – Lincolnshire, Northamptonshire, Buckinghamshire and Hampshire, bringing the total membership to 38, the highest ever. He suggested that there are others, including West Sussex, which ought to consider joining. He added that f40 has some members that have received better funding in recent times but they have stayed loyal to the group and to the principles of fair funding. Ben Bradshaw (L. Exeter) wondered how realistic it is in a flat cash period to expect that fair funding will be delivered. Richard Drax (C. South Dorset) said that Dorset is in a very bad state over poor funding and it shows in many ways and needs correcting. He wondered if one reason per pupil funding in places like Tower Hamlets was so high is because of costs such as those associated with using interpreters. He asked if the actual costs were known. MJ said that these services are factored in to the existing formula, but whether the amount is realistic, is another matter. Kevin Hollinrake (C. Thirsk & Malton) asked how realistic it was to use a three year transitional period. MJ pointed out that when you are talking redistribution (because there is no extra cash on the table) you inevitably have winners and losers. F40 has suggested that in a year three year transition, those losing can plan for change.