BRITISH BROADCASTING CORPORATION RADIO 4 TRANSCRIPT OF “FILE ON 4” – “CAN ROTHERHAM RECOVER?” CURRENT AFFAIRS GROUP TRANSMISSION: Tuesday 20th October 2015 2000 – 2040 REPEAT: Sunday 25th October 2015 1700 - 1740 REPORTER: Manveen Rana PRODUCER: Sally Chesworth EDITOR: David Ross PROGRAMME NUMBER: PMR542/15VQ5734 - 1 - THE ATTACHED TRANSCRIPT WAS TYPED FROM A RECORDING AND NOT COPIED FROM AN ORIGINAL SCRIPT. BECAUSE OF THE RISK OF MISHEARING AND THE DIFFICULTY IN SOME CASES OF IDENTIFYING INDIVIDUAL SPEAKERS, THE BBC CANNOT VOUCH FOR ITS COMPLETE ACCURACY. “FILE ON 4” Transmission: Tuesday 20th October 2015 Repeat: Sunday 25th October 2015 Producer: Sally Chesworth Reporter: Manveen Rana Editor: David Ross ACTUALITY OF BRASS BAND RANA: On an early autumn evening, Rotherham celebrates the industry that defines it. MAN: It’s quite apt to be stood here in the Minster Gardens next to the floodlit Minster here of Rotherham to turn on the lights of the heart of steel. I can’t think of any persons more fitting to do this than two of Rotherham’s own – Paul and Barry Chuckle. APPLAUSE MAN AND CROWD: Three, two, one – yay! RANA: The shimmering two metre tall, metal structure is a defiant monument to the steel industry that’s been its heart. PAUL CHUCKLE: Fantastic piece of work. BARRY CHUCKLE: It is. - 2 - PAUL CHUCKLE: Rotherham is a fabulous place. BARRY CHUCKLE: It is. PAUL CHUCKLE: Don’t let them knock us, whatever happens. I don’t mean knockers, you know what I mean? BARRY CHUCKLE: You don’t mean that, no. PAUL CHUCKLE: I didn’t mean that, no. RANA: Behind the laughter, Rotherham is reeling. The very industry being celebrated is on the verge of extinction, with 550 steel jobs set to go in Rotherham alone. It is the latest blow to the town, following the revelations about child sex abuse that shocked the world. Last year, I was here reporting as the scandal broke. I’ve come back to find out how the town is coping with the fallout and to ask, can Rotherham recover? SIGNATURE TUNE ACTUALITY AT PRESS CONFERENCE JAY: It is hard to describe the appalling nature of the abuse the child victims suffered. They were raped by multiple perpetrators, they were trafficked to other towns and cities in the north of England, they were abducted, beaten and intimidated, children being doused with petrol …. RANA: Last year, the Jay Report lifted the lid on the horrifying scale of abuse that had been allowed to take place in Rotherham. JAY: Our conservative estimate is that at least 1,400 individual children in Rotherham were victims of sexual exploitation over the sixteen years. - 3 - RANA: But the enormity of the impact on the community and the victims themselves is still just emerging. Some of the girls who were abused have now become mothers, but their involvement in grooming has brought them under scrutiny from the authorities and many fear that social services will take their children away. LIZZIE: Now they’re just using my past against me. RANA: In what way? LIZZIE: In every way they can. They’re all constantly bringing it up. They need to like just let me get on with my life instead of keep bringing my past up all the time. RANA: Twenty year old Lizzie, as we’ve agreed to call her, is reserved and guarded. She was groomed for years by a group of abusers. Although she’s one of the few victims whose case has already led to convictions, she was so vulnerable by then that she soon stumbled into a violent relationship. She’s put that behind her and her parents are now helping her to raise her baby, but she fears that Social Services are so obsessed with her past that it is undermining her ability as a mother. LIZZIE: Maybe if they gave me the help I need then it’ll obviously make me better and I’ll be able to care for her and look after her like a proper parent should. RANA: And do you worry that they’ll take the baby away? LIZZIE: Yeah. RANA: How important has it been to you, personally, having the baby? LIZZIE: Very important. She’s like the one that’s keeping me going and keeping me strong. I think if it weren’t for her, then I’d have probably give up by now, but I’ve not. I’ve carried on fighting. - 4 - RANA: Do you think a lot of abuse victims really worry that they’ll have, their babies, they’ll have the thing that keeps them going taken away if they report it? LIZZIE: Yeah, yeah. I think that’s why a lot of girls are not coming forward. RANA: Do you know of any? LIZZIE: I know a few. RANA: Lizzie’s family isn’t the only one feeling like they’re now under scrutiny. SUE: From what I’m going through and what’s still happening, I’d advise no, don’t get involved with them. RANA: Sue, we’ve changed her name and her voice, has two daughters who were groomed by a gang. She did everything she could to stop the abuse and to alert the authorities to it. But now she also says she wishes she had never gone to Social Services. SUE: One of my daughters that were involved, she’s just given birth and that baby were born premature and it’s in special care. Basically they got in touch with her, four days after she’s given birth, by emergency caesarean. Putting concerns over the baby’s safety, regarding her other sister, what’s in a violent relationship. They’re saying the baby’s unsafe, even though my daughter doesn’t have anything to do with her sister’s boyfriend. They’re fetching it up, saying Rotherham’s a small town. I think they’re coming at the wrong time. The baby’s in special care and she’ll be in there for quite a while. RANA: And how did your daughter react? - 5 - SUE: She was absolutely devastated and heartbroken. Nobody could believe what they’re doing. They’re penalising her for what happened as a child to our family. RANA: You felt the authorities failed your daughter when the abuse was actually happening. Do you feel like they’re failing them now? SUE: Yes, I still think there’s failings now. We’re all trying to fetch Rotherham forward, but the mistakes are still creeping in and the failings are still happening. There’s a long way for them to go before they get things right. ACTUALITY AT COMMUNITY CENTRE WOMAN: Morning everybody! Coming in today we’ve got some Halloween themed glasses to do and we’ve got some new glitters, we’ve got some neons to make them extra bright … RANA: Sue and Lizzie are regulars at Swinton Lock, which offers art therapy sessions and a place for victims and their families to seek advice and to offer each other support. WOMAN: Smudge it all round and make it go out far. RANA: The centre is run by Jayne Senior, who’s just won a Woman of the Year award for forcing what was happening in Rotherham onto the national agenda. She’s now the town’s expert on CSE – or Child Sexual Exploitation – and has come to be one of the most trusted points of contact for many of the victims. SENIOR: We have people that say to us regular that they don’t want to come forward to the police because they may have their children removed. We’ve somehow got to change those attitudes. If I was a victim of abuse, I wouldn’t think that my children would get removed just because I came forward and gave a statement to the police. That fear has been there through both the Casey and the Alexis Jay report, but there is still cases of people that have been involved with Social Services because they’ve become part of - 6 - SENIOR cont: the system by saying I am a victim of CSE. And we’ve got two cases that have become active this week where we’ve had to get some legal advice because they are worried that if they come forward as a victim of this crime, that assessments on their children could end up going in a different direction. That is about training and recognising that CSE is not a label. So if we have a victim of CSE who’s got their own children and is having difficulties, them difficulties, we need to look more holistically rather than just presume because they are a victim of CSE they are going to struggle to parent. RANA: Jayne, and the centre at Swinton Lock, have been struggling to cope with the number of victims who have turned to them. Many of the girls and their families aren’t getting support from anywhere else, but the centre is running out of the funds to be able to help. The local MP, Sarah Champion, says she’s disgusted by how little support they’ve received, and she worries that the council still isn’t doing enough for the victims of CSE. CHAMPION: I want to say we could never have a scandal of that level. I can’t say that at the moment. I haven’t got enough faith in the system that that couldn’t happen again. I say that because I still have new cases that come to me, not at the first point of reporting, but they’ve tried to report it to the council, they’ve tried to get support for the ongoing victims and that’s been very slow in coming.