Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru Y Pwyllgor Archwilio The National Assembly for Wales The Audit Committee Dydd Iau, 15 Mawrth 2007 Thursday, 15 March 2007 Cynnwys Contents Cyflwyniad, Ymddiheuriadau, Dirprwyon a Datgan Buddiannau Introduction, Apologies, Substitutions and Declaration of Interests Adroddiad Dilynol ar Reoli’r Casgliadau yn Amgueddfa Cymru—National Museum Wales Follow-up Report on Collections Management at Amgueddfa Cymru—National Museum Wales Diogelu Arian Cyhoeddus ym Mhrosiectau LG, Casnewydd Protecting Public Money in the LG Projects, Newport Cymorth ar gyfer Prosiect LG, Casnewydd: Parhad Protecting Public Money in the LG Projects, Newport: Continued Ymateb Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru i Adroddiad y Pwyllgor Archwilio, ‘A yw’r GIG yng Nghymru yn Ymdopi o fewn yr Adnoddau Ariannol sydd ar gael iddo?’ The Welsh Assembly Government’s Response to the Audit Committee Report, ‘Is the NHS in Wales Managing within its Available Financial Resources?’ Ymateb Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru i Adroddiad y Pwyllgor Archwilio ar Amseroedd Aros y GIG: Adroddiad Atodol The Welsh Assembly Government’s Response to the Audit Committee Report on NHS Waiting Times: Follow-up Report Ymateb Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru i Adroddiad y Pwyllgor Archwilio ar Archwiliad Ariannol o Lywodraeth Ganolog a Chyrff y GIG yng Nghymru: 2006 The Welsh Assembly Government’s Response to the Audit Committee Report on Financial Audit of Central Government and NHS Bodies in Wales: 2006 Ymateb Llywodraeth Cynulliad Cymru a Phwyllgor y Ty i Adroddiad y Pwyllgor Archwilio ar Reoli Absenoldeb oherwydd Salwch yng Nghynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru The Welsh Assembly Government and House Committee Responses to the Audit Committee Report on the Management of Sickness Absence in the National Assembly for Wales Cofnodion y Cyfarfod Blaenorol Minutes of the Previous Meeting Cynnig Trefniadol Procedural Motion Cofnodir y trafodion hyn yn yr iaith y llefarwyd hwy ynddi yn y pwyllgor. Yn ogystal, cynhwysir cyfieithiad Saesneg o gyfraniadau yn y Gymraeg. These proceedings are reported in the language in which they were spoken in the committee. In addition, an English translation of Welsh speeches is included. Aelodau Cynulliad yn bresennol Assembly Members in attendance Leighton Andrews Llafur Labour Mick Bates Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru Welsh Liberal Democrats Alun Cairns Ceidwadwyr Cymru Welsh Conservatives Janet Davies Plaid Cymru (Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor) The Party of Wales (Committee Chair) Jocelyn Davies Plaid Cymru The Party of Wales Mark Isherwood Ceidwadwyr Cymru Welsh Conservatives Irene James Llafur Labour Carl Sargeant Llafur Labour Swyddogion yn bresennol Officials in attendance Ian Gibson Dirprwy Swyddog Cydymffurfiaeth, Swyddfa Gydymffurfiaeth y Cynulliad Deputy Compliance Officer, Assembly Compliance Office Jeffrey Godfrey Cyfarwyddwr Gwasanaethau Cyfreithiol Director of Legal Services Gareth Hall Cyfarwyddwr yr Adran Menter, Arloesi a Rhwydweithiau Head of Department for Enterprise, Innovation and Networks Sharon Linnard Cyfarwyddwr Gweithrediadau a Buddsoddi Cymru Director, Operations and Invest Wales Ian Shuttleworth Pennaeth Monitro a Gwasanaethau Proffesiynol, Gweithrediadau a Buddsoddi Cymru Head of Monitoring and Professional Services, Operations and Invest Wales Eraill yn bresennol Others in attendance Gillian Body Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru Wales Audit Office Jeremy Colman Archwilydd Cyffredinol Cymru Auditor General for Wales Michael Houlihan Cyfarwyddwr Cyffredinol, Amgueddfa Cymru Director General, National Museum Wales Ben Robertson Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru Wales Audit Office David Tolley Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru Wales Audit Office James Verity Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru Wales Audit Office Dr Eurwyn Wiliam Dirprwy Gyfarwyddwr Cyffredinol, Amgueddfa Cymru Deputy Director General, National Museum Wales Gwasanaeth y Pwyllgor Committee Service Dr Kathryn Jenkins Clerc Clerk Dan Collier Dirprwy Glerc Deputy Clerk Dechreuodd y cyfarfod am 9.32 a.m. The meeting began at 9.32 a.m. Cyflwyniad, Ymddiheuriadau, Dirprwyon a Datgan Buddiannau Introduction, Apologies, Substitutions and Declaration of Interests [1] Janet Davies: Bore da. Croeso i aelodau’r Janet Davies: Good morning. I welcome pwyllgor a’r cyhoedd i’r cyfarfod. committee members and the public to the meeting. [2] I remind everyone that the committee operates bilingually, and that headsets are available for translation of Welsh into English, and also to amplify the sound. [3] Atgoffaf bawb i ddiffodd ffonau symudol, I remind everyone to switch off mobile phones, pagers ac unrhyw ddyfais electronig arall, gan pagers or any other electronic device, as they eu bod yn ymyrryd â’r offer cyfieithu a interfere with the translation and broadcasting darlledu. Os bydd yn rhaid gadael yr ystafell equipment. If the room has to be vacated in an mewn argyfwng, dylid gadael drwy’r drws emergency, you should leave through the agosaf a dilyn cyfarwyddyd gan y tywysyddion. nearest door and follow the ushers’ instructions. [4] Yr wyf wedi derbyn ymddiheuriad gan I have received apologies from Catherine Catherine Thomas. A oes gan Aelodau unrhyw Thomas. Do Members have any interests to fuddiannau i’w datgan? Gwelaf nad oes. declare? I see that you do not. 9.33 a.m. Adroddiad Dilynol ar Reoli’r Casgliadau yn Amgueddfa Cymru—National Museum Wales Follow-up Report on Collections Management at Amgueddfa Cymru—National Museum Wales [5] Janet Davies: You will remember that, in May 2004, the committee looked at the collections management at the National Museums and Galleries of Wales, which is now re-branded as Amgueddfa Cymru—National Museum Wales; that is a bit shorter too, is it not? We made 13 recommendations at that time to help the museum to improve its collections management, and we requested an update on progress, once the museum had adopted its strategic vision for the future. [6] The auditor general’s update provides us with the opportunity to follow up our earlier work, to seek direct assurance on the progress being made to implement our recommendations, and, where appropriate, to act as a spur for further action. [7] Felly, croesawaf y tystion. A wnewch chi Therefore, I welcome the witnesses. Will you gyflwyno’ch hunan ar gyfer y Cofnod? introduce yourselves for the Record? [8] Mr Houlihan: I am Michael Houlihan, the director general of National Museum Wales. [9] Dr Wiliam: I am Eurwyn Wiliam, the deputy director general of National Museum Wales. [10] Janet Davies: Thank you. I will start with the first question, which is very general, to set the scene. Could you explain a bit more about your new corporate vision—how it links into your strategy and what it means in general terms for how you intend to manage your collections for the future? [11] Mr Houlihan: We spent, in total, two years developing the vision for the organisation and it is contained in a little booklet at the moment, which gives some of the headlines of the vision. Essentially, we are trying to create a world-class museum of learning. The museum is well on its way to achieving that, in a variety of different areas, through its international reputation and international loans. However, we also feel that we have further work to do in several areas. [12] We have developed, following extensive conversation with the public, a series of seven key objectives. One of those is very much concerned with developing flourishing collections. Inevitably, there is an inter-linking of all these objectives, because we are quite a complex organisation and the relationships between the collections and our public programming are obviously extremely tight and interrelated. However, in terms of the collections, we have a specific objective that states that we want to develop flourishing collections. That is not only about growing the collections in ways that are relevant to the people of Wales, but is also about caring for the collections and managing them effectively. That is also about developing knowledge from the collections and making that available to the public. So, that is one key area in which we see a direct relationship between the vision and the collections management, particularly the core of this review. [13] We also have an objective in relation to, not only being an organisation that delivers learning, but also one that tries to learn. That is important in terms of what we are trying to do to engage with the public. A product of the vision has been some amendments and changes to our royal charter, which has been directly designed to ensure that we are effectively engaging with the public in ways that are relevant to today’s society. So, instead of having a court-type consultation mechanism, we are currently piloting a number of ways in which we can engage with the public through, for example, youth panels and panels in relation to home learners, which is a very specific group. These are very much task and finish groups. [14] We would certainly envisage, in time—and we have already tested this with the public at the National Waterfront Museum—talking to the public about what we should collect in the future. That is how the public can play a part in determining the collections of the future. That is quite an interesting and difficult task. What would we collect today to reflect the world in which we now live that will still resonate in 200 or 300 years’ time, and have meaning for people then about what we are doing today? Try thinking of a few objects that you collect today that reflect that. We can do that by engaging with the public on that sort of discussion and entering into that debate. Again, that is another way in which we hope to bring the public into this whole arena of collections management. [15] The report highlights other, more obvious areas such as partnerships, circulating the collections through Wales and looking at how we can work with a variety of different museums and art galleries throughout Wales to make our collections available, but also to support their work. So, it sees a collection for Wales—or a distributed national collection, if I can use that term—as being fundamentally important.