52 September 1986 Marxism Today ONE WOMAN'S STORY Interview with Olivia O'Leary Olivia O'Leary was the first woman to Tonight and in that period there were three become senior presenter of BBC 2's elections in Ireland. It was a very exciting Newsnight. She comes from Ireland, and time, there was constant contact with the until joining the BBC, worked there as a BBC and I did an awful lot of punditry on journalist in both print and broadcasting. The World at One, PM and even News- She was the first woman news interview- night: commenting on elections or what er on Irish radio, a parliamentary sketch had happened. So we had that sort of writer for the Irish Times, then presented contact. Today Tonight, the Irish equivalent of Linda Alexander had left in 1984 and Newsnight, before she was wooed by the they asked me to replace her. When I first BBC. She has commuted between Lon- came I found that the work was a bit don and Dublin, but has chosen recently restricted: news bulletins and the odd to return to Ireland to work, leaving interview. I'm not good on featurette-type Newsnight, because she couldn't stand stories. I'm a hard news woman. It's not a her three year old daughter crying every question of not liking to do them, I'm just time she left home. Here she talks to not any good and so after about six weeks I Scarlett MacGuire. told them I was unhappy and went back to Ireland. It must have been very flattering when the Then they rang me and asked if I was BBC first approached you to do Newsnight. interested in coming back. I said not unless I was going to do the main presenter end of It was very nice. I was fronting Today the programme. So when John Tusa was to 54 September 1986 Marxism Today take the summer off they asked if I would broadcasters is a phrase that doesn't carry a stand in; I was delighted because I thought connotation either of being a Unionist I had stood on a point of principle. I phrase or of being a nationalist phrase, so admire the BBC for their bravery. People it's the right phrase to use. It's one of my sometimes think of the institution as an old little hobby horses. stick-in-the-mud, and they can be a bit Newsnight is pretty good on Ireland. It is sniffy about things, but they took on a never ever dismissive and never does the, relatively unknown Irish woman and I've 'Oh God damn them, let them all sort it out always had great admiration for them for together' approach. It is very conscious taking that risk. that Northern Ireland is living with a part of Britain's history - a part of its history How challenging do you find presenting Britain doesn't have to live with any more. Newsnight? It never tries to dismiss the contradictions or complications in an issue because it Enormously challenging. This programme knows historically why they are there and is a Rolls Royce of a programme for a main it knows they are inherent in Northern presenter. Everything is geared towards Ireland in the same way they are inherent the main presenter, all the research, all the in the Middle East. help, all the exposure - and all the respon- There may be many people on the sibility of getting it wrong too. But if programme who believe there should be an you're that sort of person you're going to integrated Northern Ireland, there are like that sort of exposure anyway. You do many who believe there should be a United everything at Newsnight, you may end up Ireland, but they do not dismiss, they do doing three or four stories, three or four not make light of the contradictions there. discussions or interviews. It's wonderful, it's a whole experience live on air. There's Olivia O'Leary: as a woman presenter she One of the things which is so significant about no other programme that makes the adre- doesn't trade on her femininity. She believes that you is that as a woman presenter you don't serious current affairs 'can never be flirtatious'. nalin flow quite like that for me. trade on your femininity and you are seen as a tics. Politics in Ireland is pub talk, kids different sort of woman to those usually found Newsnight has its own definition of news; it talk about it in playgrounds, everybody fronting tv programmes. doesn't follow the pack. How do you feel it talks about politics. It's a punters game in achieves this? Ireland. It's like racing: people bet on it, Serious current affairs can never be apo- people follow teams. Therefore it's not the logetic, it can never be flirtatious, and I We will always be looking for a story which slightly removed thing that it sometimes is don't think I've ever been that sort of will carry a discussion and exposition, in this country. person anyway. The very nature and con- we're not going to go for a beautiful picture As the year has gone on here I've become tent of the work you're doing means you story or a purely narrative story: we're more confident and more influential. But can't, in anyway, be deferential or flirta- looking for a story which needs analysis, it would be ridiculous to say that I have had tious with an interviewee because you are which needs teasing out, which means you the same editorial stamp on the program- having to demand answers to questions. I have to choose a particular story even if me as John Tusa who was with it from the can't say I ever felt it was my career in life there is a more sensational one to be done. beginning. My big thing is to turn to to be a pretty woman. I don't think that We're not merely into reporting, so it's people and say that's fine but it's not my nature ever endowed me with that so important we choose something we can get style. I want to write it in a particular way therefore I was never burdened with it. our teeth into. The reason why our choices or I want to treat the interview in a are sometimes different from other peo- particular way because it would be false for Anna Ford talked about body fascism in the ple's is that we need to choose an item me to do it any other way and it must 1970s. Do you think you have changed things which will carry a 20-25 minute exposition always be comfortable in my hands. for women coming up behind you? - that means you've got to go for the meatier story, and we usually do. What about the reporting of Ireland? Anna Ford dared to say that the BBC didn't take women seriously, that prog- How much influence do you have on the I find that I'm sometimes having to say, rammes like Panorama and Newsnight programme? 'remember that for people in the South of didn't give any access to women. But there Ireland there are certain sensitivities in this isn't just me presenting Newsnight, there is Probably as the year has progressed I've story'. Often the BBC, when talking about also Jenni Murray, and two of the four become a great deal more confident about Northern Ireland, will say 'province or editors of the day are women. There comes my opinions on the way something should Ulster'; Catholics in Northern Ireland a point when women have to stop shooting be treated, and more confident particular- would never say those words unless they off their mouth about opportunities and ly about British politics. Politics is my were talking about the RUC. There are actually look at the facts. It should be area. I am fascinated by parliamentary phrases that are acceptable to both sides: better but that kind of talk is ridiculous. politics. I'm from a country which talks, both Protestants and Catholics say North- eats and drinks, very much drinks, poli- ern Ireland so that Northern Ireland for The Monica Simms report on the position of September 1986 Marxism Today 55 women in the BBC was quite disturbing about tion, there isn't any feeling that one is any become too difficult - a classic woman's how women failed to make it to the top grades. better than the other. dilemma. Women have got to stop being fright- We have to ask whether women end up in ened of doing hard news. I've seen again I am but I am not leaving work. I'm going that position because they are so grateful to and again that women will suddenly baulk back to do a very important programme on have those jobs that tearing up the prom- at a fence. It's partly conditioning, it's Irish tv. Yeah, I'm taking a career decision otional ladder is not the first thing on their partly expectations. I've had to push my that if I were single I would not be taking. minds - We haven't begun to think in way past people who've said, 'now you If I were single I would be staying on here. terms of 'eye on the main chance'.