Third Session- Thirty-Seventh Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable George Hickes Speaker Vol. LII No. 77 A - 8:30 a.m., Wednesday, August 7, 2002 MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Seventh Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation AGLUGUB, Cris The Maples N.D.P. ALLAN, Nancy St. Vital N.D.P. ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thompson N.D.P. ASPER, Linda Riel N.D.P. BARRETI, Becky, Hon. Inkster N.D.P. CALDWELL, Drew, Hon. Brandon East N.D.P. CERILLJ, Marianne Radisson N.D.P. CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan N.D.P. CUMMINGS, Glen Ste. Rose P.C. DACQUAY, Louise Seine River P.C. DERKACH, Leonard Russell P.C. DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk N.D.P. DOER, Gary, Hon. Concordia N.D.P. DRIEDGER, Myrna Charles wood P.C. DYCK, Peter Pembina P.C. ENNS, Harry Lakeside P.C. FAURSCHOU, David Portage Ia Prairie P.C. FRIESEN, Jean, Hon. Wolseley N.D.P. GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GILLESHAMMER, Harold Minnedosa P.C. HA WRANIK, Gerald Lac du Bonnet P.C. HELWER, Edward Gimli P.C. HICKES, George Point Douglas N.D.P. JENNISSEN, Gerard Flin Flon N.D.P. KORZENIOWSKI, Bonnie St. James N.D.P. LATHLIN, Oscar, Hon. The Pas N.D.P. LAURENDEAU, Marcel St. Norbert P.C. LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. La Verendrye N.D.P. LOEWEN, John Fort Whyte P.C. MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St. Johns N.D.P. MAGUIRE, Larry Arthur-Virden P.C. MALOWA Y, Jim Elmwood N.D.P. MARTINDALE, Doug Burrows N.D.P. McGIFFORD, Diane, Hon. Lord Roberts N.D.P. MIHYCHUK, MaryAnn, Hon. Minto N.D.P. MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East P.C. MURRAY, Stuart Kirkfield Park P.C. NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom Interlake N.D.P. PENNER, Jack Emerson P.C. PENNER, Jim Steinbach P.C. PITURA, Frank Morris P.C. REID, Daryl Transcona N.D.P. REIMER, Jack South dale P.C. ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Rupertsland N.D.P. ROCAN, Denis Carman P.C. RONDEAU, Jim Assiniboia N.D.P. SALE, Tim, Hon. Fort Rouge N.D.P. SANTOS, Conrad Wellington N.D.P. SCHELLENBERG, Harry Rossmere N.D.P. SCHULER, Ron Springfield P.C. SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St. Boniface N.D.P. SMITH, Joy Fort Garry P.C. SMITH, Scott, Hon. Brandon West N.D.P. STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo P.C. STRUTHERS, Stan Dauphin-Rob lin N.D.P. TWEED, Mervin Turtle Mountain P.C. WOWCHUK, Rosann, Hon. Swan River N.D.P. 4493 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Wednesday, August 7, 2002 The House met at 8:30 a.m. Committee of Supply meeting in Room 254 will be considering the Estimates of the Department ORDERS OF THE DAY of Health. It has previously been agreed to have a global discussion in all areas and then proceed GOVERNMENT BUSINESS to line-by-line consideration with the proviso that if a line has been passed, leave will be PRAYERS granted to members of the Opposition to ask questions in passed areas. The floor is now open Mr. Speaker: Prior to recogmzmg the for questions. honourable Government House Leader (Mr. Mackintosh), I would just like to inform the Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): I would House that we will not be able to meet the 24- like to ask the minister a question based on the hour turnaround fo r Hansard, but as usual statement of public sector compensation dis­ Hansard will do their best and will �et it out a � closure of the Winnipeg Regional Health Au­ soon as possible. thority for December 31, 2001. Wayne Byron, the vice-president of human resources, is shown House Business as receiving that year $429,062.89. Can the min­ ister i dicate what that amount is made up of? Is Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House � that his salary, plus something else? Leader): As a matter of House business, I think it is important to congratulate Hansard, actually, Hon Dave Chomiak (Minister of Health): this session for the tremendous turnaround time � Obviously, I do not know the specifics of that that they have provided. particular issue, but I can indicate that I suspect it has to do with the fact that Mr. Byron left the Mr. Mackintosh: Mr. Speaker, would you employment of the WRHA and received a canvass the House to see if there is leave to package in terms of benefits and all the related bring Family Services and Housing Estimates matters relating to compensation. I do not think into the Chamber to substitute for Intergovern­ it is particularly different than other kinds of set­ mental Affairs this morning from about 10 to tlement in the public sector. 11: 15? That is for this morning only. I will just confirm whether or not we have Mr. Speaker: Is there leave to bring in Family the specific information in regard to that. As the Services to replace Intergovernmental Affairs member knows, Mr. Byron was employed by the fr om 10 to 11:15 this morning only? [A greed} WRHA. {interjection] Mr. Mackintosh: I move, seconded by the As I indicated, Mr. Speaker, he left the Minister of Finance (Mr. Selinger), that the employ of the WRHA. He House resolve into Committee of Supply. was a long-time em­ ployee of the health care sector. As I understand Motion agreed to. it, that was part of the regular package in terms of leaving the employ of the jurisdiction. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY (Concurrent Sections) * (08:40) HEALTH Mrs. Driedger: Can the minister tell me if it is Mr. Chairperson (Harry Schellenberg): Good normal pra�tice for somebody to receive a pack­ morning. Will the Committee of Supply please age, especially to that amount, when they just come to order? This morning, this section of the leave their employ? 4494 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA August 7, 2002 Mr. Chomiak: There is a variety of arrange­ unless he was making close to $200,000 an­ ments that are put in place with respect to em­ nually, this is more like three times a yearly ployment. My suspicion is that Mr. Byron had a salary payout. contractual agreement with the WHA, which then was subsumed by the WRHA, which con­ So I would ask the mmtster, since this is tinued and which was probably put in effect probably not something that no one noticed, I when he left the employ of the WRHA. That is a wonder if the minister would undertake to pro­ similar arrangement to a series of other individu­ vide that information by tomorrow morning. als across the sector. Mr. Chomiak: Mr. Chairman, I indicated we The member might know that there was a would endeavour to determine that information. package that was entered into with respect to a I do not think it serves anyone's purposes to CEO of one of the hospitals that we discovered speculate with respect to the circumstances. upon assuming office that had a significant package. We indicated to all of the employing As I indicted, we will endeavour to obtain health authorities that they had to provide infor­ that information. My assumption is that contract mation regarding CEO packages, et cetera, with was entered into in the mid- to late-nineties respect to employment contracts. under the WRHA and was probably continued under the WRHA. I suspect it is a contractual arrangement, but I, too, should not speculate Mr. Glen Cummings (Ste. Rose): Well, Mr. with respect to that particular issue and will Chairman, this is about enough money to pro­ await the inquiries from the appropriate manage­ vide doctors at Gladstone fo r two years for ment to determine what the circumstances are emergency care. If the gentleman was a long­ concerning that matter. term employee of the health care system, what is the rationale in putting out that kind of money to Mr. Cummings: Just for the record, even given have him move on? the enormous size of the Department of Health, I would be very surprised if the minister was not Mr. Chomiak: Mr. Chairperson, I will contact apprised of what occurred when this kind of a the WRHA and ascertain, if it was, in fact, the payout was put forward, and that is why I am contractual arrangement, when the contractual pressing for him to provide some kind of dead­ arrangement was entered into, which I suspect line fo r when he will provide this information. was probably when the WHA was fo rmed in the mid-nineties, and then I will find out what the terms were and what the circumstances were in Mr. Chomiak: Yes, I acknowledge the mem­ terms of the disposition of that matter. ber's comments. Mr. Cummings: When might we expect that Mrs. Driedger: Before leaving that topic, Mr. information? Byron did depart from his job shortly after he made some comments related to The Essential Mr. Chomiak: We will attempt to ascertain that Services Act and the Government's decision to information as soon as possible. It depends upon abolish the act as they indicated to the Manitoba the volume, but, quite clearly, the information Nurses' Union. It was a promise to the nurses will be ascertained as soon as possible. union that they would get rid of that act. Once the information became known that the Govern­ Mr. Cummings: We can only assume that this ment was quietly moving in the back rooms to was a removal from his employment for cause try to make changes to that act, Mr. Byron came for that kind of a bulge, or if it was a voluntary out very vocally and, in fa ct, if I recall, even in separation, then any rational person would have writing, being very, very critical of what the to ask what was the rationale fo r providing what Government was doing.