Vol. 648 Wednesday, No. 3 27 February 2008 DI´OSPO´ IREACHTAI´ PARLAIMINTE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES DA´ IL E´ IREANN TUAIRISC OIFIGIU´ IL—Neamhcheartaithe (OFFICIAL REPORT—Unrevised) Wednesday, 27 February 2008. Leaders’ Questions ……………………………… 519 Ceisteanna—Questions Taoiseach ………………………………… 525 Requests to move Adjournment of Da´il under Standing Order 32 ……………… 536 Order of Business ……………………………… 537 Limerick City Alteration Order 2008: Motion …………………… 543 Passports Bill 2007: Report Stage (resumed) and Final Stage ……………… 543 Civil Law (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2006: Order for Report Stage …………………………… 550 Report Stage ……………………………… 550 Message from Select Committee ………………………… 570 Ceisteanna—Questions (resumed) Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government Priority Questions …………………………… 570 Visit of Northern Ireland Assembly Commission Delegation ……………… 578 Ceisteanna—Questions (resumed) Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government Priority Questions (resumed) ……………………… 578 Other Questions …………………………… 581 Adjournment Debate Matters …………………………… 593 Civil Law (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2006 — Report Stage (resumed) and Final Stage … … 594 Student Support Bill 2008: Second Stage (resumed) 602 Private Members’ Business Broadband Services: Motion ………………………… 629 Adjournment Debate Schools Building Projects …………………………… 654 Educational Projects …………………………… 658 Questions: Written Answers …………………………… 661 DA´ IL E´ IREANN ———— De´ Ce´adaoin, 27 Feabhra 2008. Wednesday, 27 February 2008. ———— Chuaigh an Ceann Comhairle i gceannas ar 10.30 a.m. ———— Paidir. Prayer. ———— Leaders’ Questions. ———— Deputy Enda Kenny: I was tempted to raise the readmission of Deputy Edward O’Keeffe to Fianna Fa´il but—— (Interruptions). Deputy Willie O’Dea: Deputy Kenny should go on. An Ceann Comhairle: Deputy Kenny does not want to raise the temperature. Deputy Michael P. Kitt: It is the race to the bottom Deputy Enda Kenny: Fianna Fa´il might need him shortly. I recognise that the Taoiseach is away on official business. I expect the Ta´naiste will be in touch with him today and I would like him to remind the Taoiseach I have a number of serious questions I would like him to answer when he returns. In the Ta´naiste’s less than 100% support for the Taoiseach in this House yesterday he claimed I was jumping to conclusions, that I had assumed the role of the Revenue Commissioners and that I was determining people’s guilt. I made the point that I was asking the Ta´naiste questions about facts that had emerged from the Taoiseach’s mouth. Yesterday the Ta´naiste came to a conclusion and an assertion and said in response to Deputy Gilmore that the Mahon tribunal had a “bogus dollar” claim. What evidence has the Ta´naiste to back up that assertion? What proof has he that this is a bogus dollar claim? If he does not have that evidence, is he prepared to withdraw that remark? Speaking for the Government last night, Deputy Fahey said the Mahon tribunal is involved in a witch hunt against the Taoiseach. Does the Ta´naiste believe that the Mahon tribunal is engaged in a witch hunt against the Taoiseach, yes or no? The Ta´naiste: I am not aware that is an accurate reflection of what Deputy Fahey said. Fine Gael is conducting a witch hunt. It is a political witch hunt that runs into sand regularly. Deputy Billy Timmins: There are many witches out there. Deputy Kieran O’Donnell: It is going well. 519 Leaders’ 27 February 2008. Questions The Ta´naiste: I would listen to what the tribunal has to say about its workings and how we can best assist it. It is the best arbiter of how we should conduct ourselves on the proceedings there. In a formal statement at the beginning of this year the tribunal made it clear that it does not regard as helpful continuing evaluations on a weekly and daily basis, mostly from Fine Gael members in an effort to draw some partisan political advantage that might emerge. The tribunal has made it clear that is not helpful to the conduct of its proceedings. It affects the perception of fair play which the tribunal is anxious to uphold and which it will and must uphold. The tribunals are not subject to the usual sub judice rules of court and hearsay and second- hand evidence can be brought forward. The allegation against the Taoiseach, on the basis of an assertion made by Mr. Tom Gilmartin, which has been of nine years standing, that he obtained a corrupt payment from Mr. Owen O’Callaghan, as far as I am aware has not been directly put to him yet. There is no supportive material in the interim to suggest it is true or has been corroborated. On the bogus dollar claim, counsel for the Taoiseach does not agree with the theory the tribunal put forward. I do not often read the transcripts, but on that occasion it made the point that it was simply putting forward propositions, not advocating positions. The suggestion Deputy Kenny contends, that the tribunal holds that view, is not something even counsel for the tribunal suggests. It is simply putting a proposition to the Taoiseach for him to rebut it. Deputy Paul Kehoe: The Ta´naiste should read the transcripts. Deputy Noel Dempsey: We have read them. Deputy Enda Kenny: In Tullamore last weekend the Ta´naiste said in one interview that the tribunal was able to do its work and was doing good work. The Taoiseach said the tribunal has a number of flaws. The Ta´naiste did not answer the assertion he made yesterday that the tribunal has a bogus dollar claim. I understand it went through 1,200 permutations to arrive at its conclusion. How many did the Taoiseach’s legal team deal with if the Ta´naiste states in this House as a matter of fact that this is a bogus dollar claim? The Ta´naiste has not said whether he believes that, as Deputy Fahey said last night on behalf of the Government, the tribunal is involved in a witch hunt against the Taoiseach. Deputy Willie O’Dea: It is not. He did not say that. Deputy Enda Kenny: The statements made by Minister after Minister, including the greatest columnist of them all, the Minister, Deputy O’Dea, who has been making comments on this tribunal and its remit for a very long time, are the running commentaries. Deputy Willie O’Dea: Deputy Kenny should keep it accurate. He should tell the truth for a change and try to be straight. Deputy Enda Kenny: Let us move on from this. Deputy Willie O’Dea: We will take no lessons in the truth from Fine Gael members. They would not know the truth if it bit them. Deputy Ruairı´ Quinn: The Minister, Deputy O’Dea, takes his defence role seriously. Who is he defending? Deputy Michael Ring: Fianna Fa´il would know a lot about the truth. 520 Leaders’ 27 February 2008. Questions (Interruptions). An Ceann Comhairle: Deputy Kenny, without interruption. Deputy Willie O’Dea: The Opposition had its chance last year. Deputy Kathleen Lynch: This is round two. Deputy Enda Kenny: At last year’s Humbert summer school in Ballina, the Ta´naiste said that the Taoiseach, Deputy Bertie Ahern, was never the recipient of beneficial gain from his years in politics. Does the Ta´naiste believe the statement of the chairman of the tribunal that it is investigating two and a half times the Taoiseach’s known and admitted income in a 12- month period? The Ta´naiste: What is that statement? Deputy Enda Kenny: The statement from the chairman of the tribunal that it was investigat- ing two and a half times the Taoiseach’s known and admitted income in a 12-month period. The Ta´naiste: According to Deputy Kenny, it is half a million euro. Deputy Enda Kenny: In today’s terms, it is the equivalent of half a million euro. The Ta´naiste: No, it is not. That is more dishonesty on the part of the Deputy and it is disingenuous of him. Deputy Enda Kenny: It is two and half times his known and admitted salary. An Ceann Comhairle: Deputy Kenny should put his question to the Ta´naiste, who should then reply. Deputy Willie O’Dea: We do not know the question. Deputy Enda Kenny: Does the Ta´naiste believe the statement of the chairman of the tribunal that it is investigating money received that was two and a half times his known and admitted income? In this House, the Taoiseach said that he had no tax issues, but at the tribunal he accepted that he had tax issues. In this House he said that there were no more accounts to be revealed, which is patently not the case given his evidence at the tribunal. He said that he would explain all the sources of all these monies, but at the tribunal he either cannot or will not explain them. As his anointed successor, as Ta´naiste and Minister for Finance and the person who will have to clean all this up, does the Ta´naiste believe the Taoiseach’s evidence, yes or no? The Ta´naiste: In case he is under any misapprehension, I want to make it clear to Deputy Kenny that the Taoiseach is giving his evidence truthfully, the same as other people at the tribunal. The evaluation of that evidence will be decided upon by the judges who have been appointed by the Oireachtas, not by the Deputy who is neither qualified nor able to evaluate that evidence. Deputies: Hear, hear. (Interruptions). Deputy Jimmy Deenihan: So the Ta´naiste believes it. 521 Leaders’ 27 February 2008. Questions The Ta´naiste: Deputy Kenny is coming into the House every second day, asking whether I agree with this or that statement.