CANADA House of Commons Debates VOLUME 145 Ï NUMBER 003 Ï 3rd SESSION Ï 40th PARLIAMENT OFFICIAL REPORT (HANSARD) Friday, March 5, 2010 Speaker: The Honourable Peter Milliken CONTENTS (Table of Contents appears at back of this issue.) 79 HOUSE OF COMMONS Friday, March 5, 2010 The House met at 10 a.m. Mr. Iacobucci will report to me on the proposed redactions. He will report on whether proposed redactions genuinely relate to information that would be injurious to Canada's national security, national defence or international interests. Prayers In the case of injurious information, he will report to me on whether the information or a summary of it can be disclosed, and Ï (1000) report on the form of disclosure or any conditions on disclosure. [English] Mr. Iacobucci will prepare a report, in both official languages, that POINTS OF ORDER I will table in this House. That report will include a description of his DOCUMENTS REGARDING AFGHAN DETAINEES methodology and general findings. Hon. Rob Nicholson (Minister of Justice and Attorney I am sure that all members of the House will join me in welcoming General of Canada, CPC): Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of this independent, comprehensive review by such an eminent jurist. order related to a motion adopted by this House on December 10 relating to the access to documents. Hon. Ralph Goodale (Wascana, Lib.): Mr. Speaker, obviously from the perspective of the official opposition, we welcome the The government acknowledges that it is appropriate that decisions remarks that the Minister of Justice has just made. We will obviously on the disclosure of information in these circumstances be reviewed want to take some time to consider the content of his statement. independently from government. This will ensure that parliamentar- ians will have as full and complete access to government information I wonder if the minister is in a position to make available to the as is necessary to perform the function of holding the government to House the correspondence between him and Mr. Justice Iacobucci so account, but no one wants to cause injury to Canada's national that we can understand the full formal legal terms of his engagement defence, international relations or national security. and the assignment that he has been asked to undertake. The minister has summarized those matters. It would be important for us to know The security of the nation and the conduct of international the detail and exactly when the review will be undertaken, and when relations are fundamental to the constitutional duties of the we can expect the report the minister has referred to. Government of Canada. Hon. Rob Nicholson: Mr. Speaker, I do not have with me all the Members will understand that there are matters which govern- details of this. We are putting this together in our discussions with ments must keep confidential in order to protect the public interest, Mr. Iacobucci. This is something that has just come together in the even in the freest and most open of societies. last little while. I will continue to report to the House and make available any information that I can as quickly as possible. Nonetheless, as I have stated, the government acknowledges that it is appropriate that decisions made by officials on the disclosure of I welcome the hon. member's comments and I will get back to information in these circumstances be reviewed independently from him. government. Ï (1005) I am pleased to inform the House that the government has engaged an eminent jurist and legal expert to undertake an independent, Mr. Derek Lee (Scarborough—Rouge River, Lib.): Mr. comprehensive and proper review of the documents at issue, Speaker, I am pleased that the minister has addressed the subject including the information that was proposed to be withheld from in the House today; had he not, someone else might have. release. There are two or three things missing and I think the House should The Hon. Frank Iacobucci, former justice of the Supreme Court of be aware of them. I realize we are not in a debate, but I want to point Canada, needs of course no introduction to the members of this out to the minister and the government that at no point in his remarks House. He is one of the country's pre-eminent jurists; his integrity is today, as far as I could tell, has the minister acknowledged the power above reproach; and he possesses specific experience and expertise of the House to subpoena these documents, to send for persons, in adjudicating document disclosure in national security cases. papers, and records. At no point did the minister acknowledge that. 80 COMMONS DEBATES March 5, 2010 The Budget Second, in asking a third party to do the government's work, no Mr. Michael Ignatieff (Leader of the Opposition, Lib.): Mr. one could take objection to that, but I would have thought the Speaker, before I begin, I would like to take note of the remarks government would already have people capable of determining made by the hon. member opposite. Members will wait to see the which documents needed protection before or after a parliamentary terms of reference. The devil is always in the details and it appears procedure. that the government is at this moment working those out; that is, it appears to be improvising. The government has not asked Parliament to do this. The government has not asked Parliament to ask Mr. Iacobucci to do this The Liberal Party notes with interest and with approval the work. There is a very important element missing in this. I invite the nomination of a man who commands the respect of every member of government to come forward with something that has a bit more the House, Justice Iacobucci. We hope that he will be given the terms permanence and is more parliamentary. of reference necessary to do the job, to re-establish the just authority of the House of Commons, which was referred to by my hon. From my point of view, the minister's statement this morning does colleague, and that we will get to the bottom of an affair in which the not address the fundamental problem of the government having government's behaviour has displayed no credit at all. failed totally to acknowledge the power of the House and its committees. If the third party doing this administrative review of the [Translation] documents that are in need of protection is not informed of this, and The Prime Minister gave Her Excellency the Governor General it is not made part of his mandate, members will end up having the some 6,000 words. I assure you that I will be briefer today. same problem during and after the exercise. Ï (1010) I invite the minister even now to rise and acknowledge the full, [English] unabridged power of this House to send for persons, papers, and records, the way it has always been for over 300 years. We have seen a throne speech and budget that make up in length Hon. Rob Nicholson: Mr. Speaker, I want to acknowledge the what they lack in vision. interest the hon. member has taken in this subject. As a matter of [Translation] fact, it goes back many years. For a couple of decades the hon. member has taken on this challenge. I have read with interest a There is nothing in this budget or in the throne speech that justifies number of the comments he has made. the Prime Minister's decision to shut down Parliament for six weeks. Nothing. One of the things all members agree on is that nobody wants to do anything that would in any way endanger public security or indeed Canadians are not fools. The Prime Minister bet on Canadians' put in danger individuals who are serving our country, be they in disillusionment and lost. For Canadians, the reasons for the Afghanistan or in another place. prorogation were clear from the start. The Prime Minister shut down Parliament so that he would no longer have to listen to I did rise on the point of order. As I indicated to the hon. member questions about the Afghan detainee scandal. The minister just for Wascana with respect to the terms and parameters, I will make acknowledged that he is in an untenable position. those available as quickly as possible. [English] Again, I believe I am among those who have a clear understanding The Prime Minister shut down Parliament to skirt blame for a year of the power of Parliament and the responsibilities members have. I of wilful blindness when the Conservatives had credible reports of believe the hon. member and other members of the House will look torture in Afghan jails but did nothing. at what the government is trying to do. We have called on the government to hold a full, independent, The government is trying to make information available, but at the public inquiry into the detainee issue with a mandate to examine the same time it recognizes the legitimate interest we all have in the whole length of the mission in Afghanistan. We will examine the protection of the men and women who serve Canada in Afghanistan terms of this proposed inquiry by Justice Iacobucci with interest to and also serve the public interests of the country. see whether it even begins to approximate what is necessary to get to I hope that is of some help to the hon. member. the bottom of this sorry affair. However, the Conservatives had refused up to this moment, and then they shut down Parliament.