Title: Wednesday, June 19, 1985 ms June 19, 1985 Members' Services 35 [Chairman: Mr. Amerongen] [9:04 a.m.] see if that is something that has perhaps been discussed before and why things are done the MR. CHAIRMAN: We're a quorum. Perhaps we way they are, and at least open up the could open the meeting and ask for a motion possibility of looking at saying that very large, concerning the minutes of the previous meeting, spread-out rural constituencies may be funded May 8, 1985. on a somewhat different basis to allow perhaps more than one office to function in separated MR. PURDY: I so move, as received. areas. MR. CHAIRMAN: Is it agreed? MR. CHAIRMAN: Do any members of the committee wish to comment on Jim's outline of HON. MEMBERS: Agreed. what he has in mind? MR. CHAIRMAN: Carried. Business arising MR. PURDY: Mr. Chairman, we've discussed from various previous minutes: 3(a), Mr. this at previous meetings. Number one is the Senchuk and probably one or two of his key use of provincial buildings. I think there's staff people will be here at 9:30. We have Nigel correspondence of file someplace. I wouldn't Pengelly, Sheila, and Jim Gurnett on the want to try to recall from memory the exact telephone. Jim's time is limited. Since Jim decision on that, but I think an answer came may have to leave by 10 o'clock, we might go down from the office of Tom Chambers, the directly to his item, if the meeting agrees, minister responsible. The answer at that time which is under 5(a). Would you like to give us was no. some information about what you had in mind Maybe we can have Mr. Amerongen, as there, Jim. chairman of this committee, research what material is now available and get an answer for MR. GURNETT: Thank you. What I really want Mr. Gurnett and the rest of the committee. to do is raise the idea and at least get some indication, especially from other rural MR. CHAIRMAN: We'd have to have some members, about the whole issue of constituency focus or direction for that kind of research. budgets, the allowance that covers constituency One thing that comes to mind is that I believe offices and staff. My short experience so far there are some differentials in Saskatchewan. has led me to start feeling that it may be The far northern constituencies get either possible to make a case or see a good reason for additional pay for the members or additional looking at differential budgeting, simply funding for members' services. By way of a because of the large areas rural constituencies start, suppose I get that information and simply cover. I know that when I talk to my colleague, send it to members of the committee. for example, his ability to have one office that really does a fairly adequate job of serving his MR. HYLAND: And the correspondence on constituency and my ability to accomplish the using provincial buildings. I think we talked same thing with one office are vastly about that before, Jim. The feeling of the different. It seems to me that since the committee, at least as I remember it, was that constituencies aren't created on a straight we wondered if a provincial building is a very population or numerical basis, it might be good place for an office. The Legislature, possible to see good reasons to look at budgets whatever side of it you're on, is not the also being on a basis that considers the government, and we wondered about a geography as well as the population of the legislative office in a government office. That constituency. I'm sure there are a number of angle was talked about at that time. It was ways that could be done: a larger allowance or, thought that people might feel a little easier one of the other thoughts that occurred to me, going to a neutral place rather than to a if constituency offices could use available space provincial building. in provincial buildings or places like that that might be available without rental involved. MR. GURNETT: Yes, I can see that. I'm not sure of the details, but I wanted to 36 Members' Services June 19, 1985 MR. CHAIRMAN: That's two things we'll do. items coming in from constituents. In that We'll get the information with regard to regard, since there is no member and since the Saskatchewan, and we'll look up the material constituency secretary could perhaps be relating to our previous discussions of this and expected to deed with those items only to a get it to the members of the committee. limited extent, it would be a matter of asking the constituent, if the thing had to be dealt MR. HYLAND: I wonder too, Mr. Chairman, if with before the result of the by-election, to Jim could put in writing some ideas or whom the matter ought to be referred — suggestions on how he would like to see it done. another member or another caucus or the same caucus. MR. CHAIRMAN: How about that, Jim? Does anyone have any thoughts about that, or Suppose you get up a little outline of what you do you want to table it for further have in mind. consideration? MR. GURNETT: I'd be happy to do that. I MR. HYLAND: I'd be interested in Jim's could give it to you to circulate with the other thoughts. He's the latest one to experience that information. and what happened in Spirit River between the time Grant passed away and he got elected. MR. CHAIRMAN: All right. MR. GURNETT: Mr. Chairman, based on the MR. GURNETT: I'll do that. input I've had from people in this constituency, I suggest that keeping the office open, as you MR. CHAIRMAN: Good. Is that all right for outlined in your second idea, is one that would that topic? be widely acceptable to the general public. I think people would have been very unhappy and MR. PURDY: Just one other point. I also concerned if there had been no office recall that we made some amendments to an functioning and no way to begin to at least have order about 18 months ago, I think, allowing some of the simpler requests dealt with and extra air travel for some of the northern attention given to them. People seemed to constituencies. Norm Weiss brought that up. appreciate the fact that the office continued to That's just information for Jim. function during those months. MR. GURNETT: Thank you. MR. CHAIRMAN: Are there any other views? MR. CHAIRMAN: Anything else? We still have MRS. EMBURY: Mr. Chairman, I think the a little time before Mr. Senchuk is due. You office should definitely be kept open. In may recall that item 3(b) has been left for a previous discussions on this topic, I thought the decision in principle by the committee. That point was raised that if the office were kept relates to services to — it's not really services open, there might be a request of the to members; it's services to constituencies constituent as to where they would want their during the period a by-election is pending. The concern directed: to the government office of basic decision that needs to be made is whether the day or to whatever opposition offices there the committee favours shutting down a are. I think that's a very reasonable way to constituency office on the death or resignation go. If you want a motion to that effect, I would of a member, as I think is done in Ontario in make a motion that we have that policy relation to by-elections, or making an established. arrangement to continue the services to constituents as well as could be done under the MR. CHAIRMAN: So you're saying that as a circumstances, pending the arrived of the new matter of policy, pending by-elections, member. constituency offices be kept open. Would you It seems to me that would include mainly two want some draft guidelines submitted on that? things. One is follow-up on existing That would be a further development of what constituents' concerns which had already been was previously given to you, with some detail given to the former member. The other is new filled in. Is that agreed? June 19, 1985 Members' Services 37 HON. MEMBERS: Agreed. what we had up to now, I think, was a situation whereby certain fees which were payable by the MR. CHAIRMAN: Any other comment before government were eligible as pensionable we take it as generally agreed? earnings and those paid by the Assembly were not. The form in which Bill 48 was passed now MR. PURDY: I have one concern about the allows for all fees to be pensionable. For guidelines. You have a variety in the example, fees paid to members of the province. You have 79 constituencies, going to committee for attendance at this meeting 83 by the next election. There are only 68 would be eligible for pension. constituency offices right now, so it's evident The question which we raised with the that all members don't have a constituency committee in the first place dealt with the office. I'm one of the 68; however, it's not committee's concurrence in having the pension funded. If something happened in my area, that deductions made at source as the fees were office would automatically be closed and the paid, thus eliminating the need for computation phone taken out, because there is no staff or of a global payment figure at the end of any secretary there.