CONFIDENTIAL Strasbourg 21 September 1987 AS/Loc (39) PV 3 COMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT, REGIONAL PLANNING AND LOCAL AUTHORITIES DRAFT MINUTES PACECOM075237 of the meeting in Paris on 9 September 1987 Present Mr HARDY, Chairman United Kingdom Mr CUATRECASAS, Vice-Chairman Spain MM ADRIAENSENS Belgium AHRENS Federal Republic of Germany Mrs BLUNCK (for Mr Rumpf) Federal Republic of Germany MM BOSCH Austria CHENARD France DEBETAZ Switzerland DUPONT (for Mr Riesen) Switzerland FAJARDO Spain Sir Geoffrey FINSBERG United Kingdom MM GARRETT (for Lord Kinnoul) United Kingdom GOERENS (for Mr Konen) Luxembourg KARAKAS Turkey LACOUR France LILAIA Portugal MEZZAPESA Italy MITTERDORFER Italy MONTASTRUC France MOREIRA (for Mr Marques) Portugal MORLEY Ireland NEHROZOGLU Turkey SKAUG Norway STEVERLYNCK Belgium ZIERER (for Mr Lemmrich) Federal Republic of Germany 14.285 CONFIDENTIAL 01.52 CONFIDENTIAL AS/Loc (39) PV 3 - 2 - Also present MM PRAT France RAMAEKERS Belgium ROBLES CANIBE Spain VALLEIX France Mr SCIMEMI, Deputy Director of Environment, OECD Apologised for absence Mr ALEMYR Sweden Mrs BROGLE-SELE Liechtenstein MM GLINAVOS Greece HOLST Denmark JOHANSSON Sweden LANNER Austria PAPALIGOUMS Greece RUBBI Italy RUMPF Federal Republic of Germany STOFFELEN Netherlands THORARINSSON Iceland Mrs van der WERF-TERPSTRA Netherlands Mr XUEREB Malta Mr Hardy took the Chair at 2 pm. 1. AGENDA /AS/Loc (39) OJ 3 rev/ The agenda was adopted. 2. MINUTES /AS/Loc (39) PV 2? The minutes of the meeting in Lausanne on 30 June 1987 were approved. CONFIDENTIAL CONFIDENTIAL - 3 - AS/Loc (39) PV 3 3„ NUCLEAR ACCIDENTS /Doc 5757 ~AS/Loc (39) 2 rev J The Chairman said that on the basis of suggestions by its rapportaur9 Sir Geoffrey Finsbergs the committee had adopted at its Lausanne meeting a number of amendments to Mrs Morf's draft recommendation„ to whichp however j the Social and Health Affairs Committee had since made amendments of its own. In addition,, the Committee on Science and Technology had just adopted a large number of amendments which might well radically alter Mrs Morf°s initial text. Unfortunately they were not yet available» Mr Bosch said paragraph 14 (I) (a) of Mrs Morf's preliminary draft had evidently been amended since there was no longer any reference to a minimum distance of 100 km between nuclear power stations and major population centres o Sir Geoffrey Finsberg again deplored the fact that there was more than one report and the lack of consultation between the rapporteurs of the committees concerned,, The Secretariat said there was going to be a single report after all as instead of a report the Commission on Science and Technology was now likewise submitting a draft opinion for insertion in Mrs Morf's Social and Health Affairs Committee report, Mr Ahrens wondered whether Mrs Morf's text sufficiently heeded frontier regions' demands for prior consultation on building nuclear power stations» The Chairman referred to various paragraphs in the preliminary draft recommendation particularly paragraphs 14 (II) (a), (b) and (c)), which took those demands into account. Finally, it was decided to return to the question at the next meeting in the light of all the other committees' amendments and the Secretariat was instructed to circulate those committees' draft amendments as soon as possible. 4. OECD PROGRESS REPORT The Chairman welcomed Mr Scimemi, OECD Deputy Director of Environment, and thanked him for agreeing to give a statement on OECD's environment work. Mr Scimemi outlined the programme of medium-term priorities approved by the OECD Council in March 1987. One of the emphases was environment in the widest sense. The key concepts included? CONFIDENTIAL CONFIDENTIAL AS/Loc (39) PV 3 - 4 - - management of natural resources; - a global approach; - environment-mindedness in all areas of government policy; prevention and control of environmental damage, by chemicals and dangerous waste in particular; improving the quality of both urban and rural life« The. Chairman thanked Mr Scimemi for his concise and instructive statement and opened the discussion by asking what OECD thought of the tendency to wring ever more productivity out of any given area of land. Mr Scimemi said an ecological approach to agriculture was in fact one of OECD's new priorities. Mr Ahrens asked if attempts to bring in stricter standards on pollution-causing emissions from fixed plant and motor vehicles had achieved anything and if OECD was involved in protection of tropical forests. In reply to the first question, Mr Scimemi said that member countries were increasingly responsibe to efforts to enforce the "polluter-pays" principle. There had also been notable successes in the chemicals field. Progress was being regularly reviewed. As to protection of tropical forests, it was difficult for OECD to bring direct pressure to bear on the Third World, though it was always open to "donor" countries to exert pressure through bilateral aid agreements. OECD had adopted two recommendations (in 1985 and 1986) on environmental impact assessment and development aid programmes. Nowadays one of OECD's aims was to build an environment dimension into economic policy instruments. The new priorities in fact included energy and environment. Mr Bosch wondered whether deterioration of the environment did not justify stricter standards and measures. Mr Scimemi said the report on the state of the environment was a periodic report which therefore contained information on progress achieved. OECD experts had likewise written reports on environment in specific countries. Mr Debetaz asked when OECD had begun taking an interest in environment policy. Mr Scimemi said it had done so rather late in the day, around 1969-70. CONFIDENTIAL CONFIDENTIAL - 5 - AS/Loc (39) PV 3 Mr Steverlynck asked what concrete results OECD"s studies and evaluations had achieved. Mr Scimemi said that some of the work was quite demonstrably achieving results - an international agreement on transport of dangerous freight was being drawn ups for instance - though no progress was being made on noise. OECD was likewise involved in the Council of Europe Campaign for the Countryside. Mr Prat said that both the Council of Europe and OECD were constrained by governments' concerns and priorities. How might such organisations' work influence national policy and perhaps commitment to a particular type of society? Mr Scimemi agreed and stressed the importance of creating the necessary public awareness. OECD looked forward to any further suggestions9 and indeed any criticisms„ from the Parliamentary Assembly in the debate on 2 October 1987» In terms„ agains of positive results9 the progressive application of the "polluter-pays-principle" was proof positive of the effect of OECD and other international organisations' policy. However, the real way to get positive results was to apply environment policy in every area of government. Mr Mitterdorfer wondered if the draft version of the agreement on transport of dangerous freight covered safety parameters» Mr Scimemi said it did not. Moreover it dealt only with transfrontier transport. On the Committee's behalf the Chairman thanked Mr Scimemi very much indeed for a lively and enlightening exchange of views. 5. DESERTED VILLAGES Mr Fajardo, rapporteur„ introduced a preliminary draft report (AS/Loc (39) 4) on the subject. A motion for a recommendation on new life for deserted villages (Doc. 5295) had been referred to committee in November 1984 (Reference 1459). In the first part of the report he intended taking stock and analysing the reasons for depopulation in a number of rural areas. Urban overpopulation as well as the economic crisis was causing some resettlement of country areas if not a return to village life. Yet a village and rural revival could do a great deal to protect the environment and the architectural heritage, revitalise craftsmanship and create employment. There were examples' >of resettlement and regeneration of deserted villages. It was worth examining them and, possibly with other committees concerned, holding a colloquy to exchange information on the subject. CONFIDENTIAL CONFIDENTIAL AS/Loc (39) PV 3 - 6 - Sir Geoffrey Finsberg said a distinction should be drawn between genuine village regeneration and "weekend villages"„ and he was sceptical about part-time farmingo The Chairman agreed about "weekend villages": in general, influxes of weekenders from towns only created more problems such as dearer land and more infrastructure requirements. Mr Ahrens agreed that weekenders were not the answer to village regeneration. What was needed was permanent residents whose main work was in the village. Special efforts were needed on behalf of young people. Mr Mitterdorfer said farming was important to environment protection and thus had a social function which needed recompensing in some shape or form. Tourism, too, could often be an important regeneration factor. Mr Fajardo promised to look into the various points raised. The Committee approved the preliminary draft report in outline and the proposal to hold a colloquy on the subject before reporting to the Assembly. 6. A NEW COUNTRYSIDE MANAGEMENT APPROACH Mr Lacour gave his thoughts on the subject, which were the fruit of extensive consultation and discussion. One thing could be taken as read: intensive agriculture had caused a crisis - overproduction, soil depletion, decline of fauna and flora, and rural depopulation. Thorough multidisciplinary enquiry was needed into how to reestablish an ecological - and social - balance. The role of leisure, tourism and forestry needed reconsidering in terms of interaction with diversified, environment-minded agriculture. In various countries there had been local experiments, which it would be instructive to analyse and compare and from which it might be possible to learn lessons valid for all countries. The best way of analysing the problem would be to hold a colloquy and make a report to the Assembly. The Chairman thought this an important matter which was worth raising but which needed tackling in close co-operation with the Committee on Agriculture. Mr Prat thought there was much to be gained from a study of national experience.