PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT GENERAL COMMITTEES Public Bill Committee FINANCE BILL (Except clauses 7 to 18, 41 to 44, 65 to 81, 129, 132 to 136 and 144 to 154 and schedules 2, 3, 11 to 14 and 18 to 22) First Sitting Thursday 30 June 2016 (Morning) CONTENTS Programme motion agreed to. Written evidence (Reporting to the House) motion agreed to. CLAUSES 1 to 5 agreed to. SCHEDULE 1 agreed to, with amendments. CLAUSE 6 agreed to. CLAUSE 19 agreed to. SCHEDULE 4 agreed to. CLAUSE 20 agreed to. Adjourned till this day at Two o’clock. PBC (Bill 001) 2016 - 2017 No proofs can be supplied. Corrections that Members suggest for the final version of the report should be clearly marked in a copy of the report—not telephoned—and must be received in the Editor’s Room, House of Commons, not later than Monday 4 July 2016 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2016 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 1 Public Bill Committee30 JUNE 2016 Finance Bill 2 The Committee consisted of the following Members: Chairs: †SIR ROGER GALE,MR GEORGE HOWARTH † Argar, Edward (Charnwood) (Con) † Long Bailey, Rebecca (Salford and Eccles) (Lab) † Atkins, Victoria (Louth and Horncastle) (Con) † McGinn, Conor (St Helens North) (Lab) † Blackman, Kirsty (Aberdeen North) (SNP) † Mak, Mr Alan (Havant) (Con) † Boswell, Philip (Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill) † Marris, Rob (Wolverhampton South West) (Lab) (SNP) Matheson, Christian (City of Chester) (Lab) † Burns, Conor (Bournemouth West) (Con) † Merriman, Huw (Bexhill and Battle) (Con) † Cadbury, Ruth (Brentford and Isleworth) (Lab) † Mullin, Roger (Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath) (SNP) † Cooper, Julie (Burnley) (Lab) † Quin, Jeremy (Horsham) (Con) † Donelan, Michelle (Chippenham) (Con) † Streeting, Wes (Ilford North) (Lab) † Dowd, Peter (Bootle) (Lab) † Stride, Mel (Lord Commissioner of Her Majesty’s † Frazer, Lucy (South East Cambridgeshire) (Con) Treasury) † Gauke, Mr David (Financial Secretary to the † Tolhurst, Kelly (Rochester and Strood) (Con) Treasury) † Hall, Luke (Thornbury and Yate) (Con) Simon Patrick, Marek Kubala, Committee Clerks † Hinds, Damian (Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury) † attended the Committee 3 Public Bill CommitteeHOUSE OF COMMONS Finance Bill 4 because of the subject matter. You will find that the Public Bill Committee Chair—particularly if it is me—rattles through stuff, and you will want to say, “Hang on, I’ve missed this”, Thursday 30 June 2016 or “I wanted to vote on that.” Do not worry about it; we will ensure that you are told exactly. Some amendments will be debated early in the proceedings, but the votes (Morning) on them—if there are any—will be taken much later, when we reach that part of the Bill. [SIR ROGER GALE in the Chair] We will call the leading name on any amendment, followed by anyone else who wishes to speak. If any Finance Bill Member wishes to catch my eye, or that of Mr Howarth, please try to indicate that; we do not have second sight. Given the timescale we are working to, we have to move (Except clauses 7 to 18, 41 to 44, 65 to 81, 129, quite fast. Once we have moved on, we cannot go back, 132 to 136 and 144 to 154 and schedules 2, 3, 11 to 14 so if you want to speak, please make sure that we know. and 18 to 22) I am working on the assumption that the Government wish the Committee to reach a decision on all Government 11.30 am amendments. Where the selection list states “stand part”— The Chair: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. I that is, that that clause or whatever should stand part of have a few housekeeping announcements before we the Bill—that permits a general debate, as well as debate start the formal business of the day. Members may on the individual amendments in the group. Mr Howarth remove their jackets, if they wish to do so; normally we may have his own views, but my view is that where there wait until the Chair has given permission. I remind are only amendments in a group, we do not necessarily Members that the only liquid allowed in the Committee have to have a stand part debate. I much prefer people Room is water. Please do not try to smuggle in— to get what they have to say off their chest early on, rather than to have a stand part debate, which tends to mean a rerun of what has been debated for the past two Rob Marris (Wolverhampton South West) (Lab): Gin. hours. We will try to avoid that. There is one other thing, which is absolutely vital—almost The Chair—coffee, because the Treasury will tax it. more important than anything else—and that is these Please ensure that mobile phones are switched to silent boxes behind me. You will find that you accumulate mode or, preferably, off. I also remind all hon. Members paper over the course of these sittings; that is why there that electronic devices are to be used for the purposes of are no rainforests left. These boxes are for you to store Committee work, not for general communication with your papers in. They are named. They used to be red for the outside world, however tempting that might be. the Finance Bill Committee—that was the only opportunity Mr Howarth and I will not, as a rule, call starred that some of us ever got to get our hands on a red amendments—that means amendments that have been box—but apparently we have run out, so I am afraid tabled without adequate notice. The notice period for that they have to be green. Completely seriously, these Public Bill Committees is three working days. Any boxes are for your use. Any papers left in them will be Member, whether a Front Bencher or a Back Bencher, put in the cupboard and locked, so you do not have to who wishes to table an amendment should do so by the lug them around the building with you. We aim to serve. rise of the House on Monday for consideration on Finally, if anyone has any queries, do not be frightened; Thursday, and by the rise of the House on Thursday for the Chair is not going to eat you, and neither are the consideration on Tuesday. Clerks. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom. If there Not everyone is familiar with the procedures in Public is something that you do not understand, for goodness’ Bill Committees, and even those who think they are sake please ask, and we will try to take you through it. I, sometimes find that they are not. I hesitate to say this, at least, will probably make mistakes. but that includes the occupants of the Chair, which is Without further ado, I call the Minister to move the why we have the service of excellent Clerks to guide us programme motion in the terms agreed by the Programming through this stuff. Sub-Committee. Yesterday, the Programming Sub-Committee met and Ordered, agreed a programme for consideration of the Bill. It must be approved by the whole Committee, so the first That— thing that we will do is consider the programme motion, (1) the Committee shall (in addition to its first meeting at as on the amendment paper. The debate on that is 11.30am on Thursday 30 June) meet— limited to half an hour. Do not feel obliged to speak; (a) at 2.00 pm on Thursday 30 June; the programme has been agreed by the usual channels, (b) at 9.25 am and 2.00 pm on Tuesday 5 July; but if anyone wishes to make any opening remarks, that (c) at 11.30 am and 2.00 pm on Thursday 7 July; is fine. (d) at 9.25 am and 2.00 pm on Tuesday 12 July; The selection list for today’s sittings is available and (e) at 11.30 am and 2.00 pm on Thursday 14 July; shows how the amendments have been selected for debate. This is quite an arcane process. Amendments (2) the proceedings shall be taken in the following order: Clauses 1 to 5, Schedule 1, Clause 6, Clause 19, Schedule 4, are grouped for discussion by content, and are not Clauses 20 to 22, Schedule 5, Clauses 23 to 39, Schedule 6, considered in sequence. In a group, you will therefore Clause 40, Clause 45, Schedule 7, Clauses 46 to 50, Schedule 8, find amendments that relate to a clause much further Clauses 51 to 60, Schedule 9, Clauses 61 and 62, Schedule 10, on in the Bill but that are to be debated much earlier, Clauses 63 and 64, Clause 82, Schedule 15, Clauses 83 to 122, 5 Public Bill Committee30 JUNE 2016 Finance Bill 6 Schedule 16, Clauses 123 to 128, Clauses 130 and 131, It will not surprise Committee members that we on Clauses 137 to 141, Schedule 17, Clauses 142 and 143, Clause the Labour Benches—I cannot speak for the Scottish 155, Schedule 23, Clauses 156 to 168, Schedule 24, Clauses 169 to National party, of course—think that the highest rate 172, Schedule 25, Clauses 173 to 179, new Clauses, new of income tax should be 50%, as it used to be. We do Schedules, remaining proceedings on the Bill; not accept the overall medium-term accuracy of the (3) the proceedings shall (so far as not previously concluded) figures propounded by the Government that suggest be brought to a conclusion at 5.00 pm on Thursday 14 July.