Third Session - Thirty-Eighth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs Chairperson Mr. Daryl Reid Constituency of Transcona Vol. LVI No. 1 - 10 a.m., Thursday, December 2, 2004 ISSN 1708-668X MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Eighth Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation AGLUGUB, Cris The Maples N.D.P. ALLAN, Nancy, Hon. St. Vital N.D.P. ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley N.D.P. ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thompson N.D.P. BJORNSON, Peter, Hon. Gimli N.D.P. BRICK, Marilyn St. Norbert N.D.P. CALDWELL, Drew Brandon East N.D.P. CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan N.D.P. CULLEN, Cliff Turtle Mountain P.C. CUMMINGS, Glen Ste. Rose P.C. DERKACH, Leonard Russell P.C. DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk N.D.P. DOER, Gary, Hon. Concordia N.D.P. DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood P.C. DYCK, Peter Pembina P.C. EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside P.C. FAURSCHOU, David Portage la Prairie P.C. GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach P.C. HAWRANIK, Gerald Lac du Bonnet P.C. HICKES, George, Hon. Point Douglas N.D.P. IRVIN-ROSS, Kerri Fort Garry N.D.P. JENNISSEN, Gerard Flin Flon N.D.P. JHA, Bidhu Radisson N.D.P. KORZENIOWSKI, Bonnie St. James N.D.P. LAMOUREUX, Kevin Inkster Lib. LATHLIN, Oscar, Hon. The Pas N.D.P. LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. La Verendrye N.D.P. LOEWEN, John Fort Whyte P.C. MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St. Johns N.D.P. MAGUIRE, Larry Arthur-Virden P.C. MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood N.D.P. MARTINDALE, Doug Burrows N.D.P. McGIFFORD, Diane, Hon. Lord Roberts N.D.P. MELNICK, Christine, Hon. Riel N.D.P. MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East P.C. MURRAY, Stuart Kirkfield Park P.C. NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom Interlake N.D.P. OSWALD, Theresa, Hon. Seine River N.D.P. PENNER, Jack Emerson P.C. REID, Daryl Transcona N.D.P. REIMER, Jack Southdale P.C. ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Rupertsland N.D.P. ROCAN, Denis Carman P.C. RONDEAU, Jim, Hon. Assiniboia N.D.P. ROWAT, Leanne Minnedosa P.C. SALE, Tim, Hon. Fort Rouge N.D.P. SANTOS, Conrad Wellington N.D.P. SCHELLENBERG, Harry Rossmere N.D.P. SCHULER, Ron Springfield P.C. SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St. Boniface N.D.P. SMITH, Scott, Hon. Brandon West N.D.P. STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo P.C. STRUTHERS, Stan, Hon. Dauphin-Roblin N.D.P. SWAN, Andrew Minto N.D.P. TAILLIEU, Mavis Morris P.C. WOWCHUK, Rosann, Hon. Swan River N.D.P. 1 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA STANDING COMMITTEE ON LEGISLATIVE AFFAIRS Thursday, December 2, 2004 TIME – 10 a.m. terms of six years each. The second term of the present Ombudsman, Mr. Barry Tuckett, expires on LOCATION – Winnipeg, Manitoba February 11, 2005. CHAIRPERSON – Mr. Daryl Reid (Transcona) Both of these positions are Order-in-Council appointments. Copies of the applicable legislation for VICE-CHAIRPERSON – Ms. Kerri Irvin-Ross both of these positions were circulated at the (Fort Garry) commencement of this meeting. ATTENDANCE – 11 QUORUM – 6 Before commencing with the business before the committee, did the committee wish to indicate how Members of the Committee present: late it is willing to sit this morning? Hon. Messrs. Bjornson, Mackintosh Mr. Doug Martindale (Burrows): I suggest we sit Messrs. Dewar, Eichler, Goertzen, Ms. Irvin- till twelve noon and reassess at that time. Ross, Mr. Martindale, Mrs. Mitchelson, Messrs. Nevakshonoff, Penner, Reid. Mr. Chairperson: It has been proposed that the committee sit till twelve noon, and then reassess at APPEARING: that time. Mr. Len Derkach, MLA for Russell Mr. Jack Penner (Emerson): I believe what is Mr. Kevin Lamoureux, MLA for Inkster required of the committee today is basically select a Mr. Glen Cummings, MLA for Ste. Rose committee that will put out the applications for both these positions and then later on meet and do the MATTERS UNDER CONSIDERATION: proper analysis of who the right candidate would be Recruitment and Selection of the Children's and make that recommendation to government. I Advocate and Ombudsman think that, basically, would be all we need to do today, so I would suggest that we proceed. I doubt * * * whether we will be here by noon. At least, I hope we Mr. Chairperson: Good morning, everyone. Will will not be. the Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs Mr. Chairperson: It has been suggested that the please come to order. committee will conclude its work and review at twelve noon. At that point, we will review, if This morning the committee will be considering necessary. Perhaps we will conclude our business the recruitment and selection of the Children's prior to that time. Advocate and the Ombudsman. As a background to the appointment of the The floor is now open. Children's Advocate, it is for a three-year term. The Children's Advocate shall not hold office for more Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Minister of Justice and than two terms of three years each. The second term Attorney General): I think we can learn from some of the present Children's Advocate, Ms. Janet of the work that has been done in this area over the Mirwaldt, expires on March 29, 2005. last number of years or based on that approach that has worked. I think one year there was a whole With regard to the Ombudsman, the appointment committee that was doing this, and I heard it was a of the Ombudsman is for a six-year term. The bit of a disaster. I do not even know if it is fair to Ombudsman shall not hold office for more than two people who come before an outfit like this to answer 2 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 2, 2004 questions when they are applying for employment. ahead on a hiring issue. I do not know how a process That was once, but I understand that the precedent can be effective in hiring a Child Advocate. Who that has developed is a subcommittee doing the would ever want to look at engaging him or herself work. I think that we can maybe tune it up just a bit in an activity where there are so many outstanding more. issues that have not been answered or have not been dealt with? I am not sure the process that this has to * (10:10) undergo, but there were some significant recom- mendations that were made that have not been dealt What I would suggest is that we delegate to a with, or there has not been a process put in place to subcommittee of three. I think three was the number deal with them that we know of. that the former government had used. I think that would be a good number, supported by staff, and that I raise the issue because I know how important it the committee be empowered to go out and get the is to get on with the hiring of the Child Advocate. I ad, get the criteria–I am not in the right order here– only raise this to get your advice on how we could get the criteria, get the ad together, decide on deal with these issues so that they can be concluded placement of the ad, short list, interview, and come before we go ahead and advertise for a Child back with a recommendation to the committee Advocate. My concern, Mr. Chair, is that we are which, I presume, would be held in camera. I do not going to be putting out an ad for a Child Advocate presume, it would have to be in camera. Then the with significant outstanding issues that have not been committee would make the final decision based on acted upon. Recommendations made by the Child the recommendations of the group of three. Advocate, recommendations that were forwarded to us as legislators to deal with through a report, and The group of three, I would recommend, reflect yet, we have not had any kind of summary as to what the distribution of seats in the House. That was what direction we are taking with regard to the Child was done last time. I would think that because the Advocate issues. February 11 date is looming, we actually ask that the committee come back before February 11 so that So I ask for your advice, Mr. Chair. I know this there can be continuity in the Office of the may be somewhat out of order, but I do need that Ombudsman. advice. I think our side of the table, at least, needs that advice before we move ahead with selecting a That was the proposal I wanted to bring to the subcommittee that would then proceed with the table. We have a couple of members that have hiring of a new Child Advocate. I ask that question. expressed an interest in being on the committee, the Member for Fort Garry (Ms. Irvin-Ross) and the Member for Selkirk (Mr. Dewar), whom we would Mr. Mackintosh: The purpose of the committee be prepared to nominate. That is what I was going to today, of course, is to put in place the hiring process. put on the table. The issues raised by the member are, of course, fair questioning in terms of the Advocate's report. I think Mr. Leonard Derkach (Russell): Mr. Chair, I want that the most important way to ensure that to begin today by indicating that, besides the hiring recommendations or outstanding issues are acted on of a new Ombudsman and a new Child Advocate, is to get the position filled as soon as possible. I there has been a Child Advocate's report released.